November 29, 2022 • 40 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon welcoming MLB Outfielder Jason Heyward to the show. Not only was Jason one of the best 'glue guys' in the clubhouse and locker room, but we find out that Jason's accomplishments put him in rare company. Jason talks about learning how to play the game the right way at 7 years old and growing up as a Yankees and Braves fan in the 90's, he saw a lot of winning. Jason reveals some of his mentors over the years and how he's now giving back to the game and his community. We go back to 2016 and dive into Game 7 of the World Series in Cleveland. Jason led a team meeting before the win and tells us what he told his teammates. We discuss what's next for Jason, on and off the field. Not only is he building the Jason Heyward Baseball Academy, but what Jason hopes to happen in 2023.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
And I know Joe, you and I are really looking
forward to our conversation with our next guest, Jason Haywood.
I know you've had a lot of players that you've managed, Joe,
(00:25):
but this has got to be one of your favorite time.
That is true, and he and I've spoken about this
in the past. And Jay, just so you know, a
big part of our our broadcast on our podcast is
try to get and connect with the glue guys, Guys
that we consider the glues, the glue component within a team.
And when we when we came up with this concept,
originally your name was kind of front and center. Um.
(00:48):
And again Jay, Hey, Um, he's the guy that always
put the team ahead of his own personal feelings. That's
something that I gathered from you from the very beginning
and that's a really big reason why guys and players
are drawn towards you. But anyway, welcome to our show.
You're a true glue guy and I just wanted you
to know that's part of the premise here today. No,
(01:10):
I appreciate you guys having me and uh you know,
considering me as a blue guy. You know, when I
think of baseball in my thirteen year career, now I
think of you know, when I think of Tom Berducci,
Jill Madden. You know, these are people that are around
a lot of important baseball games, a lot of important
baseball thoughts. And you know, I see both of you
guys in playoff baseball as well. So now it's it's
(01:33):
awesome to join you. Well, Jason, yeah, we um. We're
going to dive into the glue guy affect really quickly here.
But I gotta give you props to thirteen year career.
As you mentioned, five Gold Glove awards. That's rare company.
And this is the other thing I looked at. Jason
compiled more than four hundred hits, a hundred and fifty homers,
and a hundred stolen bases. Now, there's been twenty two
(01:56):
thousand or so major league players across history, and only
a hundred and fifty six have reached those levels. That is,
by my math, less than one percent of all players.
So we're gonna get into the glue. But this guy
could play too, Joe, absolutely, um, And that's that's part
of it. Adjason the thing that he was able to do.
(02:18):
He turned around games with his glove also, and and
you kind of alluded to within those numbers, um, just
his instincts for the game on the basis, in the outfield,
on defense, I e. The catch that he made in
San Francisco a couple of years ago in that death
value and right central. Big hits, I mean big hits,
big moments. And one of the things Jay I wrote
at the very end of my notes for today is
(02:40):
that there was no no moment too big for you.
That's how I felt. I I regardless if you were
on a street kidding wise, you're not regardless of that.
I I told you this. I've always felt better when
you were on the field for us. I felt a
better chance of winning just because of the impact you
had on the people around you. So those numbers are
reflective of that. I believe. It's the ability to play
(03:02):
the complete game of baseball. I think that's something you've
taken pride in and that's something that I really appreciated
about you. Oh man, I appreciate that fellows the numbers
and the stuff, you know, but behind the scenes, um,
you know, it's it's really been a pleasure. And I've
been fortunate enough to obviously be on a lot of
good teams that that put winning first. But I've just
been fortunate enough my whole life playing baseball, like set
(03:24):
out every single day to win, and a lot of
numbers come from that, but you know, just a lot
of good vibes, a lot of you know, overcoming a
lot of adversity comes from that as well. So it's
that's just been who I am and what I love
about the game. And that's something else. Uh, I thought
about wondering about to j Um in Nate. Was this
in Nate when you were a kid growing up? But
(03:45):
where did you really establish this method of player this
this team attitude first? Was that UM a particular person
somebody that inspired you. How did you arrive at this
particular point where you understood and realized the importance of
putting team first? Well, at seven years old, I feel
like I was really fortunate to learn the game um
from from a coach we had. His name is Ricky Archer.
(04:08):
I want to say he played college ball at Columbus
UM at the college in Columbus, Georgia. But he taught
us like the game the base running to know like
how many outs there are before you to play. Um,
you know, just the sixth sense type of things. You know,
how to get a lead, how to play defense, and
where literally every position had to be on the field.
(04:29):
So learning that at seven years old, and then the
very next year, at eight years old, our team won
the Roberto clement A Double ABC World Series and we
had to travel to Denver, Colorado, Uh, from mcdonna, Georgia
to go play in that World series. Uh. It was
just winning at a very early age. And then every
year after that, I created more and more and more,
(04:50):
um you know, from having a group that held each
other accountable, wanted to play the game the right way,
and had a lot of fun going out there and
just completing your ass off. And you know the results
were the results, but you knew every day you put
your best foot forward to try to win. And then lastly,
growing up in Georgia watching the Atlanta Braves and then
my mom being from New York Yankees Embraves being my
(05:14):
two favorite teams growing up in the nineties, I just
had a lot of reinforced watching teams win. That's great.
I mean I really thought that it had to have
been impacted upon you when you were very young, and
you just validated all that. Very cool. Yeah, And I'm
wondering too, Jason, once you get to the big leagues,
because you got there at a very young age, who
were the ones that you considered to be mentors that,
(05:36):
even if it wasn't something somebody talking to you, by
watching them how to be a professional and how to
be a team player, that you learned some things about
that at a young age, I will say in the
very beginning, being twenty years old two thousand and ten, Um,
I was fortunate to have a group of vets Um
Eric Henski's, Brian mccainn's, Tipper Jones, UM, Tim Husson, Derek Lows,
(06:00):
Martin Prado, Um, David Ross was there, of course. Uh,
just to name a few guys. Billy Wagner Um took
me under his Wayne Troy Gloss. But outfield wise and
then every day player wise. I gotta give so much
credit to Michael Borne Um. We got him in a
trade with Houston in two thousand eleven, so he played
with us that half of the season and then the
(06:20):
full two thousand twelve. He just really allowed me to
sit back and and learned how to be a big
leaguer every day, Um, how to move on and off
the field, how to get your work done, you know,
how to be a professional. And and he's one of
the most positive people I know. So it was just
another reinforcement for me of everything that I that I
had learned and enjoyed about the game at this level.
(06:42):
Is that come right down to the point where you
came off the field off of defense, coning back to
the duggoat that you would always tap gloves with the
other outfielders. Yeah, I mean we just I don't even
remember where that started. That might even started in high school. Um,
you know with the with the teams that I played
with in the East Cobbs because being a fifteen sixteen
year old playing for the East Corps Astros, you play
(07:03):
against the best of the best in the country every
single year. And that that meant you're playing against you know,
eighteen and under teams where guys are committed to college
and whatnot and they're going to be draft picks. Um,
just a lot of camaraderie and those those games. And
just to paying a picture my junior summer playing for
the Astros, our team we went in nineties six and four,
(07:28):
you know, And and that's obviously that's you know, that's
a lot of damn baseball today in high school, but
there was so much competition, and so I just took
certain things from from those teams and the winning teams
over the years and just always were a part of me.
That's incredible, that's an incredible record. Tell me, you know, Joe,
I remember Jason writing a story about Jason that rookie year,
(07:48):
and he was telling me stories about playing more than
a hundred games as a kid growing up. We're talking
about as an adolescent or even younger. I was blown
away by the baseball world was changing, the whole travel
business and guys really diving in and an opportunity to
play a ton of baseball. Um and obviously Jason played
at a high level. And what's interesting, and this really
(08:11):
close to my heart, Jason has really come made to
come full circle. He has now built a baseball academy
to Jason Heyward Baseball Academy in Chicago in North Lost
the neighborhood on the West Side, hundred and fifty thousand
square feet to serve what really had been underserved communities.
And when it comes to opportunities to play sports in general,
but baseball specifically UM. And it's just a wonderful thing
(08:35):
that he's doing to get back And Jason, I want
you to explain obviously it's close to your heart. UM
in Chicago now does seem like it's your adopted hometown.
When did this idea take root in your mind to
do something like this. I appreciate you're asking me about
that time. UM so was a different year for obviously
(08:56):
all of us around the world, UM, but athlete wise,
it was really cool in Chicago to come together with
some athletes from other schools. UM in its small world,
and everything happened for a reason. I believe in that.
UM steven SUSA, who I played one season with, and
he introduced me to Sam Macho, who played for the
(09:17):
Bears for a little bit. UM played for a couple
of different teams, but Sam introduced me to this nonprofit
called By the Hand Club, and they do charter schools
and through their program they know By the Hand, they
take kids from pre K to elementary, to middle school,
onto high school and then onto college and into a
(09:39):
profession and and stay with them in one of the
toughest communities in this country in the neighborhood of Austin. UM.
So we had the opportunity to go into that community
on the west side of Chicago. UM. We went into
some healing circles. You know, there was some social injustice
things going on at that time, and I just wanted
to bring some peace there with kids in that community.
(10:01):
But they brought the idea of letting us know they
were wanting to start a sports facility in North Austin,
and they asked me to be the head of the
baseball park of of this facility. And you know, it
didn't take long for me to say, yeah, like I
want in. UM. They were very organized, had this very
well thought out. They had the land and they've been
(10:23):
acquiring land over time. And once they shared their vision,
I said, I'm absolutely wanted to be a part of this,
to start something different. UM. I saw these communities in Chicago,
especially you know in the year like where a lot
of people were hurting. UM. Not to say that's the
first time they've been hurting, but it was just, you know,
an opportunity for us to not have a job at
(10:45):
the moment and go actually break bread with these people. UM.
To put a facility over there and give them a
community center where that's that's not a normal thing. You know,
these families don't have that. They have more liquor stores
in their communities than they do grocery stores, um, and
in places to convene as community. So that's a big
part of why I wanted to to be in this facility.
(11:05):
But then again just starts with the opportunity to give
kids somewhere to go to to have some accountability, to
build some some team sport, you know, character, some some
incentive to have somewhere to go that they can take
pride in their community. Um. But then lastly, I gotta say, um,
the way this community and Austin, the kids and and
the parents you know, reacted to things like this, the
(11:26):
positivity I'm interested to see them make it their own
and to what comes from it. That's pretty impressive. Man.
I I knew of it, but I didn't realize to
what extent in your explanation is is beautiful man um Uh, Listen,
I've known you for a while. I didn't realize how
deeply all this ran with you. And it's really impressive
to hear you explain yourself that well appreciate, appreciate this
(11:47):
is this is the uh the Cubs Roberto Clemente nominee,
and that's that's one of the biggest awards you can
be nominated for in baseball and well deserved. So we
can't talk Jason Hayward without talking about Game seven teen
World Series, and we'll do that right after a quick break.
(12:16):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. We've joined
by our special guest, Jason Hayward. And Jason, I mentioned
that Game seven World Series. How often does that game
come up around fans for you know that uh that
that Game seven it comes up, It comes up enough, right,
(12:37):
like just and I just say that because Joe, you
know how it is with with cub fans that they're
they're so appreciative and grateful that we got it done. Um,
but you know, some of them are just kind of
tickled to know, like all the little intricacies of of
our journey there and when it comes up, you know,
I'm happy to, you know, talk about it, but I
know that only the people that were there in that
(12:58):
room in that moment, and everyone there was you know,
obviously a part of our group. Only we can feel
you know, all those moments and leading into a Game seven,
which was crazy in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean the way
that I've asked about it often also just we've we've
been on kind of a book tour two and I
get that question a lot. But my my recap of
(13:19):
it is, I was when that occurred. The rain started
to come on down. I'm walking in and that dugout
in Cleveland, downstairs and and upstairs, and all you guys
are peeling off to the right, and I go upstairs
and I'm talking with Jed Hoyer just looking at the rain,
a situation on the iPad, and then somebody said, yeah,
Jason called the team meeting downstairs. And to me, and
(13:41):
this is my explanation, it was so appropriate that you
would do that and not me that the peer component
of all this, to me is what really stands out.
And it also indicates the respect that you had among
the group. I don't think there was anybody else there
at that time capable of even having the thought of
drawing them all into the room simultaneously like that and
come across with the message that you delivered. So as
(14:03):
a manager, I'm eternally grateful for that moment because I believe,
I really truly believe that sincerely that it had uh
as great an impact on anything that we did that
night in Reglets just winning that World Series. No, I
I appreciate that, and I mean being there and being
there from our Cubs convention starting in January seen to
(14:23):
that last game. You I know, you're not blowing smoke there,
Joe Hump, just just from you know, the journey we
all had. Um. You know, everyone in that room knew
that I wasn't just getting people together to to step
in and and and be a ra Ray guy or
anything like that. It wasn't about me, Um, you know,
I just wanted to remind him that, look, this is
(14:43):
this is a baseball season, and we all go through
ups and downs, and and no one's handled those ups
and downs the way we have throughout the year. Like
we've done that better than any other team. And I
said that we're not gonna stop now. You know, like
we played this game a certain way. You know, we
we handle adversity, you know, a certain way, and we're
gonna go out there and do this our way the
way the Cubs do. We laugh at it, We laugh
(15:04):
at those challenges, and you know we don't care about
the result, like we wanted to get that w and
and and the curse whatever, but more importantly just you know,
to win a ring um. But still, I really believe
that we had to do it our way and and
not focus on, you know, a moment that it's already
passed us by. We just had to focus on what
was in front of us and the opportunities we still had.
(15:26):
And I mean I tell people, every time the right
people were in the room, you know that that doesn't
happen with that group. Without that group, that really illustrates
everything I talked about regarding don't forget the heartbeat. And
I really think that that moment that we achieved there
that night, when you went into that room with the guys,
that really brought that to the forefront for me. Because
(15:46):
everybody's always looking for these analytical methods of winning a
baseball game or numerical methods of winning a baseball game,
and a lot of times that we're forgetting the human element.
And right there, it cannot be illustrated more prominently than
what happened that night with you and the boys. Uh,
the human element, the appealing to emotion and thoughts and
and even the strategic plan that we had set out
(16:07):
from the beginning of the year regarding how we're gonna
approach the day, Um, things are going to go awry.
One of the first things we talked about in the
team meetings prior to the playoffs beginning to expect something
bad to happen, and it's gonna happen, and when something
bad does happen, what's going to set us apart is
how we react to that moment. So this is the
kind of stuff that I don't think gets enough play
(16:27):
because everybody believes teams win just based on numbers. Teams
win based on personalities, really good baseball players, character and
being able to handle difficult moments in a way that's
unique to that particular group. And that's really that's not
forgetting the heartbeat, and that's what happened on that particular night,
and probably as a manager, that's what I'm most proud
of reflectively, reflectively looking back on that World series. Absolutely,
(16:53):
And uh, I just want to say, you know, on
on the show and while we had this open form,
which I think is awesome, Um, you know, with this
group of people, but no, Joe, those are things that
you were preaching from day one. Um, you know when
I signed with the team, and you also, you know,
will tell us first that you don't like to have
a lot of meetings. You know, you don't you don't
(17:13):
like talking at us. You want us to kind of
police ourselves and that, but you know, to to build
our own you know, jelling and and mojo or swagger
or whatever you want to call it. And you know,
I feel like you were always saying those exact words
that you you know, did you just finished speaking on
you know, who can handle the toughest moments the best
and overcome those. But I feel like it's very easy
(17:34):
to miss that, you know how it is when your
managers talking. You've got a great team, we want a
hundred and three regular season games, super easy to overlook that.
But when we had that moment right there, we needed
at the most and you've always been consistent with that.
Appreciate it. Um. Let me ask you this too, because
I'm listening to to your child that it didn't even
realize we go back to seven eight years old to
(17:55):
really establish this this method of operation, uh, this team's
spirited kind of method at any point, Uh, from that
moment on seventh to the point you got to the
Braves and eventually Cardinals in the and the Cubs. Was
there a moment of struggle, kind of a moment there
where you kind of doubt it yourself, you were confused
with things that you may have actually considered taking a
(18:16):
different course. I'm always interested in that because I think
a lot of successful people, when they retrace their existence,
they're going to go back to different moments in their
career where the struggle occurred and they have to make
decisions and you kind of doubt what you're doing right now?
Did that ever arrive for you? Because from what I'm hearing,
and it seems to be that you were pretty much
um devoted to a particular method of thinking her line
(18:39):
without any real doubt in your head. So was there
that struggle moment that you really were considering doing something else? Possibly? Well, Fortunately,
I think that's one thing that comes to winning. Uh,
you know, it covers up a lot of things. But
I've been on winning teams every step of the way,
and I never doubted myself. Um, I knew the game
was gonna be hard. I expected to fail. Um that's
(19:02):
you know, it wasn't cliche for me. They say with
baseball you fail more times than you succeed. Well, I
truly believe that. And and so that gave me a
sense of peace, the fact that I knew I was
gonna go out on the field every day to help
my team win, to put that best foot forward. And
over time that's what happened. You know. I saw those
things play out, did a lot of winning things on
the field off the field with teammates, and so I
(19:25):
never I never had an opportunity to doubt myself, and
that I just knew that when I'm fourteen years old, Um,
you know, I said I want to play baseball professionally.
I step on the field with eighteen year olds and
they're all throwing seven eight right there. The field got
a little bit bigger. Basis got bigger, the fences get taller,
and players are stronger. I know, like, hey, if you
(19:46):
want to do this, it's it's put up a shut up.
So I enjoyed that challenge. And uh, like I said,
just obviously winning helps cure a lot of doubts. Yeah yeah,
just as to me a sort of a neutral observer
in that game seven story you're going through, Jason, all right,
was in the dug out as a reporter for Fox,
and I saw how down the Cubs were after the
(20:10):
Indians came back and tied that game. And I also
saw a completely different team that came back into the dugout.
I now, I didn't know that you had held that meeting, Jason.
I just knew the teams sounded and looked completely different.
I'm convinced the Cubs don't win that game without what
happened during that rain delay. And I've got to go
back to something you said. It's sort of a confirmation
(20:30):
of a couple of things. Joe's methodologies that allowed players
to be empowered, where you could step up and have
a meeting like that without telling the manager, Hey, this
is what I want to do. And the other thing
is you've gone through your background to prepare for that moment,
a guy who put winning above all else. That was
true not just that night, but every night that you
(20:51):
played baseball. So I have to remind people. I never
remind you, Jason. This World Series, where you're known for
being the ultimate blue guy, began with you on the bench.
And if I believe, if I remember right, I think
Joe talked to you before game one. Here, you get
to the World Series and you're not in the starting lineup.
That to me is the ultimate glue guy who's gonna
look beyond whatever his situation is and say, how can
(21:12):
we what can I do to help us win? Period?
Do you remember was there a conversation before Game one?
There there was a conversation. But I have to say,
and and this is with over time and more understanding. Um,
you know, since then, things are happening so fast out
there right Um the way you know, a team front office,
(21:35):
you know, manager, coaching staff prepared for a game in
a series, you know, all that stuff happens fast, you know,
within itself. But when it's World Series and you've got
all the things the Cubs had going on around it,
you know, there wasn't much time for you know, you
know taking uh, you know, side conversation. Um, and I'm
not talking about just with me, but but anyone. You know,
it was like we we gotta get you know the
(21:57):
guys that we got gone, we got media, you got
you know, people ask you a billion questions on you know,
it's been a hundred and eight years Cleveland. It's been whatever,
you know, eighty five years or whatever. It was for them. UM.
So our conversation before the game was was pretty quick.
And you know, I believe that I should be playing,
no doubt. And I feel like that's what every single
(22:18):
baseball player UM has to have and better have in
those moments. You better believe you need to be on
the field. UM. But I knew what our group had,
and you know, I just wanted to hear you know
what we got, you know what what what what what
they were thinking? So I just knew how to prepare. UM.
Was never looking for an answer on hey, Jason, like
(22:39):
you know what we're gonna get you in in the
fifth inning and you know we really think that what
wasn't looking to be coddled. I just needed, you know something,
so I knew, like, well, let me have my mind
right enough to do what I need to do to
help this team win. UM. And And that was that.
So I had that conversation. You know, Joe spoke to me,
you know, said that they believed that you know, the
guys we had, which we had some guys that have
(22:59):
been there in fifteen, UM the year before already and
contribute and look, you got a hundred three game, hundred
and three win season. In the regular season, everyone contributes, right,
It's it's not just one group. So you really believe
that anyone you put out there and the best matchup
is is gonna work. Um and they're gonna do their
job that night. But I knew what I had, I
knew what I had to bring and no so I
(23:22):
that that World Series started with me on the bench
for three games in a row, um against right handed pitching,
and and that that was my beginning to my first
World Series. Parents, that is just so impressive that from
that sitting against as you said, right handed pitching, not
used to that, and being there in the crunch moment
for your team I made that that's the ultimate clue
(23:44):
guy to me, Joe absolutely um and that really that's
just that sums it all up. That's why I really
enjoyed my time with Jason so much. He was the
kind of guy. And I've talked about this in the book.
If I tell you the truth, you might not like
me for a week or ten days. If I lie
to you can hit me forever. And so you just
you with guys like Jay, you never you never wanted
to send you never want to you know, parce out
(24:06):
the truth, possibly in different ways. You've just got to
tell Jason exactly what's going on in Jason, just like
he described, Uh, he needed to know that and then
he could prepare. He knows how to prepare for that
night over that game. And that that is like that
is every manager, is every any kind of captain team
coach would ever head coach. That's the kind of guy
you want. And and everybody talks about being a team player,
(24:29):
and this this goes for coaches and managers too. We
all talked about it, but then you actually got to
live it and breathe it, and everything j just described
right there indicates what we've been talking about at this
point in this UM podcast. He is that guy, and
it started when he was seven or eight years of age,
and it was embedded in him to the point where
he gets to the World Series and we asked him
(24:50):
to not start. You know, he's not gonna be started
for the first three games and it cannot be handled
any better, to the point where he's possibly the most
inspirational component of that team victory. In this is Tom
Verducci with Joe Madden, and you're listening to the Book
of Joe podcast and when we get back, we'll talk
some more with Jason Heyward about what's next. Welcome back
(25:19):
to the Book of Joe podcast. This is Tom Berducci
with Joe Madden and Jason. Before we let you go,
there's two things we need you to do. Number one
is give us an idea of what's ahead now for
Jason Hayward. I know that Jason Hayward Baseball Academy is
going to have pretty much a soft opening in the
next month or two up and running full time. Give
(25:42):
us an idea of where you're at with that and
especially your baseball career and what might be next for you.
So I guess I love the academy stuff and with
off the field. Um, you know, first I'm gonna be
a dad. You know, we gotta we got an eight
month year old now, MESSI my wife and my wife
V and I we're doing that and we we love having,
you know, a bigger family strength, and so that's that's
(26:04):
been an amazing experience. UM. You know, if you got
I know, Joe, you have kids, Tom, if you have
kids like that's there's nothing better, but you know, going
on to this academy, UM, hoping to have construction done
first week of January, so we can have this soft opening, um,
you know, and get that in before either before kids
(26:24):
go back to school or right after, um to give
them like a fun weekend, uh, to pop their ear off.
In three. But then as far as baseball goes, man,
I'm I'm looking to get with a team that's just
trying to win a ring. You know, like obviously you
know results, you know, we we'd love to have them,
don't know how they're going to pan out, But I'm
(26:46):
looking to play for a team that you know, wants
to give me an opportunity to join what they have
going on and and put their best foot forward to
try and win the ring and compete for that. In
three after hearing all this and and hearing and even
deeper sight of you for me, um, have you even
given considerate and eventually after the playing days are done?
Is uh, what kind of employment would you like to
(27:09):
get into at that point? Is it would you like
to stay in the game at baseball as your academy
that important that you're gonna get still staying baseball in
another way? But as you're describing everything and after as
you've talked about everything today, Uh, pretty impressive, brother, really
impressive your thoughts and where you've been going. We've we've
gotten to with all of this. So have you given
(27:30):
any consideration to post baseball playing what you may want
to do in those years to follow. I appreciate that, Joe. UM.
I mean, of course, it's nice to have that constant
and you know, wanting to have an obligation with the academy. Um,
but I do believe that if I do stay in baseball,
then that's that's only gonna be better for the academy. Uh.
(27:52):
You know, some of the guys will come through Chicago
throughout the year, of course, playing for the White House,
playing for playing for the Cubs and other teams, so
it'll be easy to network. Um, but I'm not sure
what what after playing side looks like. Uh. I would
love to help a team compete. I would love to
be able to shine light, uh two players on you
(28:13):
know what it's like to come into this as a
young as a young kid, and and playing this profession. Um,
you know, it's a job, you know. I think now
it's really cool that the game is getting that much
closer to young guys that are in high school and college. Uh,
it's a beautiful thing. But I don't think they know
that checking in every day is you're going into the
(28:35):
training room getting your body right, you're going into the
cage getting loose, and you know you're you're punching the clock. Uh.
You know, I want to shine light on that stuff. Um.
But also having so many perspectives on you know, being
a free agent twenty six years old, Um, you know,
playing for three historic franchises. UM, I think I have
a lot to you know, insight to give to guys,
(28:58):
like playing for the Cubs and US winning that World Series.
I said it in h I guess you've called my
my exit press conference with the Cubbies earlier this year.
That you know, winning is a is a sacrifice and
there's so much debt that that you have to to
pay for what it takes to do that. And you know,
in everyone's world, you know, even watching you know, our
(29:21):
team over the years, you know, business wise, seeing players
move on, seeing Joe move on, you hate to see it,
you know, But I don't think people are prepared for
like what it takes to win and then what it takes,
you know, the aftermath of that. Like it's it's not
always easy but you know it's it's that mentally taxing,
there's that much dedication, that there's that much time away
from family. UM. So whenever I can do to find
(29:44):
a role that hits me there, Um, whether it's with
one team or whether it's with you know, a bunch
of teams and a bunch of guys. I think that's
that's where I can help out a lot of guys.
It's beautiful thought, well done. Well. You have so much
to offer baseball, Jason, both on the amateur level and
obviously still in the major league level. We wish you
all the best. Um. The word winner certainly comes to
(30:06):
mind when you hear the name Jason Hayward. That that
will not change the other thing I'd like you do.
We wanted to start a new segment here, Jason. We
call it a reading from the Book of Joe. I
want you to pick a number between one and three
hundred and sixty eight. That's how many pages we have
in our book, the Book of Joe. UM, just randomly
(30:26):
pick a number, and we'll go to a reading in
the course of that page, which I think will give
fans an idea that this book has a lot in it.
So your choice, your pick here one to three. I
don't know if I'm first to pick a number. I
hope I am. I want to know what's on page one,
(30:48):
So that's a great call, would this number? But you
talk about great leadoff that. I'm curious now too, what's
on one oh eight? Man? All right? The story of
Mark mc lemore, remember that one, Joe, absolutely, Jason. Have
(31:09):
you met Have you met Mark? Jason? Do you know Mark?
I don't. I don't believe, so, I don't believe. So
he's with the Texas Rangers right now doing a lot
of broadcasting, and had called him fluff, had fluff when
he was seventeen years of age and Salem, Oregon, had
a great major league career, really shined as a like
a utility guy, like really a wonderful super utility guy.
And we still stay in touch when it when he laughs,
(31:31):
he sounds like my brother Mark actually, and we've always
had this really strong connection. So anyway, this is good stuff.
Go ahead, Tommy. Yeah, well, Mark, and I'm not sure
if this ever happened with you, Jason, but he has,
like a lot of young players, he was homesick and
wanted to quit baseball. Um, he was probably what Joe
eighteen nineteen, seventeen, seventeen eighteen, Yeah, from San Diego. Wow,
(31:53):
So here we go. Joe calls him into his room
to convince him to stick around and keep playing baseball.
And what Joe had told him was that what he
was missing was no longer there. And that's a quote
from Joe. He conceded eventually that I was right. Going
back home would have been the worst thing he could
have possibly done. And he ended up having a great season.
(32:14):
We win the Northwest League championship with him playing second
base and Kevin Davis playing shortstop, both seventeen eighteen years
old at the most, and we beat the Midford A's,
who were just chock full of college players at the time.
Fluff goes on from there, He goes to the Double
A Texas League, gets hurt. We said him to Anaheim
to rehab at that time because everybody thought this guy
(32:34):
is so important to the organization. It was one of
the bigger mistakes the Angels made at that point and
something I learned a great lesson from. So Joe, he
talked Mark and the sticking around, but he made a
great point that they brought him to Anaheim as a
minor league player to rehab, and he kind of got
I don't know, what do you call it? Major league itis? Yeah,
(32:56):
I got a little full of himself at that point.
When he came back, he wasn't quite the same and
it took him some time to get old ridden. And
you have to understand, this is a kid that I
never thought that could happen with. Mark was one of
the most humble, nice, fun sincere young men that you're
ever gonna want to meet. So if it could happen
to him, it could happen to anybody. So the moral
of the story right there for me is he gets
(33:18):
hurt in double ashus, stay in Double A and get
treated like everybody else should have got treated. At that point,
it was not the time to accelerate anything for him
because you don't know, as a young person at seventeen
and he's able to handle that particular moment, he doesn't
have the kind of cachet of experience that maybe even
like Jason had starting at seven eight years of age
and moving all over the country and playing and winning
(33:39):
nineties games whatever. So anyway, he came back he was
a different cat, and it really bummed me out for
a long time. He eventually recovered, but it took him
a while. It actually took him a while to get
back to the point where he used to paint uh
an eye on his flap on his shoe. At that time,
he used to have flap like a flap. It was
the eye of the Tagger from the Rocky movies. Right
(34:02):
before is that bat. He'd go up to home play,
he'd reached down, look at the eye of the Tagger
and put it back down because it was underneath. And
then he then he proceed hit the line drive up
the middle because he just wanted to have the eye
of the Tiger and everything that he did. I love
the guy for that. But anyway, the more of the
story was that really be careful because you think some
people may not change because you think they're they got
(34:22):
it wired and they're they're so grounded and they're so
well done in all different ways, and and and Mark
taught me that that's not necessarily true. So it's not
always you can't read the book by its cover. Sometimes
you can't judge it. And that's what I learned from
that particular moment with Mark's I'd love for you to
meet him sometimes. Jay, Hey, you guys had really hit
it off. He's a beautiful human being. We stay in
(34:43):
touch and uh yeah, that's just a typical example what
happened in the minor leagues. That was two in Salem, Oregon, Salem, Oregon,
and I could I could see him sitting in my
room like it was yesterday. That's awesome. Um, could I
just say to that story? And then I love that
there's a book of these that it's so hard to
(35:04):
you know, obviously they always say the cliche highsight. Um,
you know, everything's all trial and error, but it's so
hard to especially being a part of winning and wanted
to develop people. Um, to be in the moment and
and do everything quote unquote perfectly, you know. So I
love that you have these experiences and you have a
book of them to go back and say, well, you know,
(35:25):
let me reflect on these a little bit and and
then share that because it's so hard to do in
the moment. And I do believe you need some time
in separation to look back and and dissect and and
see everything for its true value. So Jason, we can't
thank you enough. This has just been fascinating and I
personally want to thank you for not just the way
you've represented the Cubs and every team you played for
(35:46):
the major leagues, but especially giving back to this game
and especially to underserve communities. I think that's the ultimate
test of of what it takes to be a winner,
is that you give back to this game. And it's
near and dear to my heart. I'm about this game
of baseball with a small b not necessarily Major leag baseball,
but the game of baseball. Maybe not future major leaguers
(36:07):
at the Jason Heyward Academy maybe you'll have a couple hopefully,
but it's all the life lessons that you're teaching those
kids that I think, um, that that will be an
even bigger legacy than Game seven. So thank you. Yeah
the same for me, j Ward. Thank thanks for coming on, brother,
and please best to be and messy. Looking forward to
seeing you guys again and we wish you nothing but
the best of success this coming season. And of course
(36:29):
if you're endeavor with the academy, I think that's awesome
and it really probably call your friend. No. Thank you, guys.
Thank you both so much for having me on. Um.
I really appreciate you, know you guys, just taking the
time and opening up a forum. You know, I think
it's super hard to let people peek inside of our
minds and and the thoughts that we have and the
things that we wish we could make right or things
(36:51):
that we learned from as well. In this there's there's
a lot of accolades, no doubt, but to be able
to highlight the other things and and bring it all
full circles amazing. And uh, you know, lastly, this this
game has taken me so far. Uh, you know, around
the world. You know, obviously different stadiums, clubhouses are in
front of different people, but these, uh, these baseball mind
relationships are super awesome. So again, thanks for having me, guys.
(37:15):
J will Brother, thank you, Thank you, Joe. That was amazing.
Jason Hayward, Wow, I mean you knew firsthand how impressive
a person Jason is. But after listening to that, my
question is, how does a major league organization not want
to hire Chasing Hayward to play, to be in the
front office. I want him on my team no matter
(37:37):
what it is. Yeah, listen, I we he and I
were together for several years, but even this brief what
thirty minutes of conversation. He revealed a greater depth to
me than I ever ever realized in the past. His
words really well chosen, h descriptions as a counselor, outstanding
his his heart's definitely in the right place, what he's
(37:58):
looking forward to do. I love the way he speaks.
A matter of factly, Jason's always I felt, Uh, he
always thinks before he says something. He's always he's really
well thought out. And it really came through in this
episode today. Also, it makes me, it makes me like
him even more, uh, if that's even possible. But it
also validates everything I thought about him, the great team
(38:19):
player that he is and he still is. And you're right,
he's gonna benefit some group this year. And uh. And
it's a shame sometimes that we only consider batting average
or ops as the standard to which are by which
you're gonna possibly sign somebody. J. J. Ward plays the
complete game. He's a complete game players, defensive, outstanding, his
base running and again I could go, you know, the
(38:41):
five tools, whatever you want to, but then he's got
that sixth and seventh tool, his ability to relate to
people in the clubhouse. And if you need a player
or two actually mentored in the appropriate way, he's the
guy you're looking for. When I was with the Rays,
I thought we got over the hump because we did
sign Troy Percival and Cliff Floyd and uh Eric Kinsky,
and he also mentioned Ski when he was in Atlanta.
(39:03):
These are the on the players that got the two
and eight Rays over the hump. And it was for
a variety of different reasons and not just because of
an ops um. And and again, I was you asked
the question. I was going to ask the same thing,
what's going to happen afterwards? And what did he want
to do this year? And again I love his answer,
So I I was. I was really impressed, and uh
(39:24):
even more impressed. Knowing him for so many years, I
came away even greater, more greatly impressed by his answers
and his thoughts. Today. Well, we've been talking a lot
about glue guys on this podcast, and if you weren't
sure what a glue guy is, after listening to that
podcast and listening to Jason Heyward, the Ultimate glue Guy,
you know exactly what we are talking about. And I
(39:45):
love the fact that in our first rendition of the
reading from the book, of Joe. He went to one
oh eight, Like you said, everything with a purpose that
was spot on. It was. And I really was trying
to think what was his number? And uh, twenty two,
I think, right, yes, And I thought he I thought
he might have gone to twenty two, but he dumps
right to the team that brow one oh a blue guy. Joe,
(40:06):
You've got something to take us home here. Yeah, I
mean one of my favorites. I don't remember exactly where
I read this, but uh, and again comes down to
the present tense and a lot of the stuff that
j Wood was talking about it. But if we take
care of the seconds, the minutes, hours, and days will
take care of themselves. Stay in the present tense. I
love it. We'll see you next time on the Book
of Joe podcast later, my brother, Thank you. The Book
(40:34):
of Joe podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
And I know Joe, you and I are really looking
forward to our conversation with our next guest, Jason Haywood.
I know you've had a lot of players that you've managed, Joe,
(00:25):
but this has got to be one of your favorite time.
That is true, and he and I've spoken about this
in the past. And Jay, just so you know, a
big part of our our broadcast on our podcast is
try to get and connect with the glue guys, Guys
that we consider the glues, the glue component within a team.
And when we when we came up with this concept,
originally your name was kind of front and center. Um.
(00:48):
And again Jay, Hey, Um, he's the guy that always
put the team ahead of his own personal feelings. That's
something that I gathered from you from the very beginning
and that's a really big reason why guys and players
are drawn towards you. But anyway, welcome to our show.
You're a true glue guy and I just wanted you
to know that's part of the premise here today. No,
(01:10):
I appreciate you guys having me and uh you know,
considering me as a blue guy. You know, when I
think of baseball in my thirteen year career, now I
think of you know, when I think of Tom Berducci,
Jill Madden. You know, these are people that are around
a lot of important baseball games, a lot of important
baseball thoughts. And you know, I see both of you
guys in playoff baseball as well. So now it's it's
(01:33):
awesome to join you. Well, Jason, yeah, we um. We're
going to dive into the glue guy affect really quickly here.
But I gotta give you props to thirteen year career.
As you mentioned, five Gold Glove awards. That's rare company.
And this is the other thing I looked at. Jason
compiled more than four hundred hits, a hundred and fifty homers,
and a hundred stolen bases. Now, there's been twenty two
(01:56):
thousand or so major league players across history, and only
a hundred and fifty six have reached those levels. That is,
by my math, less than one percent of all players.
So we're gonna get into the glue. But this guy
could play too, Joe, absolutely, um, And that's that's part
of it. Adjason the thing that he was able to do.
(02:18):
He turned around games with his glove also, and and
you kind of alluded to within those numbers, um, just
his instincts for the game on the basis, in the outfield,
on defense, I e. The catch that he made in
San Francisco a couple of years ago in that death
value and right central. Big hits, I mean big hits,
big moments. And one of the things Jay I wrote
at the very end of my notes for today is
(02:40):
that there was no no moment too big for you.
That's how I felt. I I regardless if you were
on a street kidding wise, you're not regardless of that.
I I told you this. I've always felt better when
you were on the field for us. I felt a
better chance of winning just because of the impact you
had on the people around you. So those numbers are
reflective of that. I believe. It's the ability to play
(03:02):
the complete game of baseball. I think that's something you've
taken pride in and that's something that I really appreciated
about you. Oh man, I appreciate that fellows the numbers
and the stuff, you know, but behind the scenes, um,
you know, it's it's really been a pleasure. And I've
been fortunate enough to obviously be on a lot of
good teams that that put winning first. But I've just
been fortunate enough my whole life playing baseball, like set
(03:24):
out every single day to win, and a lot of
numbers come from that, but you know, just a lot
of good vibes, a lot of you know, overcoming a
lot of adversity comes from that as well. So it's
that's just been who I am and what I love
about the game. And that's something else. Uh, I thought
about wondering about to j Um in Nate. Was this
in Nate when you were a kid growing up? But
(03:45):
where did you really establish this method of player this
this team attitude first? Was that UM a particular person
somebody that inspired you. How did you arrive at this
particular point where you understood and realized the importance of
putting team first? Well, at seven years old, I feel
like I was really fortunate to learn the game um
from from a coach we had. His name is Ricky Archer.
(04:08):
I want to say he played college ball at Columbus
UM at the college in Columbus, Georgia. But he taught
us like the game the base running to know like
how many outs there are before you to play. Um,
you know, just the sixth sense type of things. You know,
how to get a lead, how to play defense, and
where literally every position had to be on the field.
(04:29):
So learning that at seven years old, and then the
very next year, at eight years old, our team won
the Roberto clement A Double ABC World Series and we
had to travel to Denver, Colorado, Uh, from mcdonna, Georgia
to go play in that World series. Uh. It was
just winning at a very early age. And then every
year after that, I created more and more and more,
(04:50):
um you know, from having a group that held each
other accountable, wanted to play the game the right way,
and had a lot of fun going out there and
just completing your ass off. And you know the results
were the results, but you knew every day you put
your best foot forward to try to win. And then lastly,
growing up in Georgia watching the Atlanta Braves and then
my mom being from New York Yankees Embraves being my
(05:14):
two favorite teams growing up in the nineties, I just
had a lot of reinforced watching teams win. That's great.
I mean I really thought that it had to have
been impacted upon you when you were very young, and
you just validated all that. Very cool. Yeah, And I'm
wondering too, Jason, once you get to the big leagues,
because you got there at a very young age, who
were the ones that you considered to be mentors that,
(05:36):
even if it wasn't something somebody talking to you, by
watching them how to be a professional and how to
be a team player, that you learned some things about
that at a young age, I will say in the
very beginning, being twenty years old two thousand and ten, Um,
I was fortunate to have a group of vets Um
Eric Henski's, Brian mccainn's, Tipper Jones, UM, Tim Husson, Derek Lows,
(06:00):
Martin Prado, Um, David Ross was there, of course. Uh,
just to name a few guys. Billy Wagner Um took
me under his Wayne Troy Gloss. But outfield wise and
then every day player wise. I gotta give so much
credit to Michael Borne Um. We got him in a
trade with Houston in two thousand eleven, so he played
with us that half of the season and then the
(06:20):
full two thousand twelve. He just really allowed me to
sit back and and learned how to be a big
leaguer every day, Um, how to move on and off
the field, how to get your work done, you know,
how to be a professional. And and he's one of
the most positive people I know. So it was just
another reinforcement for me of everything that I that I
had learned and enjoyed about the game at this level.
(06:42):
Is that come right down to the point where you
came off the field off of defense, coning back to
the duggoat that you would always tap gloves with the
other outfielders. Yeah, I mean we just I don't even
remember where that started. That might even started in high school. Um,
you know with the with the teams that I played
with in the East Cobbs because being a fifteen sixteen
year old playing for the East Corps Astros, you play
(07:03):
against the best of the best in the country every
single year. And that that meant you're playing against you know,
eighteen and under teams where guys are committed to college
and whatnot and they're going to be draft picks. Um,
just a lot of camaraderie and those those games. And
just to paying a picture my junior summer playing for
the Astros, our team we went in nineties six and four,
(07:28):
you know, And and that's obviously that's you know, that's
a lot of damn baseball today in high school, but
there was so much competition, and so I just took
certain things from from those teams and the winning teams
over the years and just always were a part of me.
That's incredible, that's an incredible record. Tell me, you know, Joe,
I remember Jason writing a story about Jason that rookie year,
(07:48):
and he was telling me stories about playing more than
a hundred games as a kid growing up. We're talking
about as an adolescent or even younger. I was blown
away by the baseball world was changing, the whole travel
business and guys really diving in and an opportunity to
play a ton of baseball. Um and obviously Jason played
at a high level. And what's interesting, and this really
(08:11):
close to my heart, Jason has really come made to
come full circle. He has now built a baseball academy
to Jason Heyward Baseball Academy in Chicago in North Lost
the neighborhood on the West Side, hundred and fifty thousand
square feet to serve what really had been underserved communities.
And when it comes to opportunities to play sports in general,
but baseball specifically UM. And it's just a wonderful thing
(08:35):
that he's doing to get back And Jason, I want
you to explain obviously it's close to your heart. UM
in Chicago now does seem like it's your adopted hometown.
When did this idea take root in your mind to
do something like this. I appreciate you're asking me about
that time. UM so was a different year for obviously
(08:56):
all of us around the world, UM, but athlete wise,
it was really cool in Chicago to come together with
some athletes from other schools. UM in its small world,
and everything happened for a reason. I believe in that.
UM steven SUSA, who I played one season with, and
he introduced me to Sam Macho, who played for the
(09:17):
Bears for a little bit. UM played for a couple
of different teams, but Sam introduced me to this nonprofit
called By the Hand Club, and they do charter schools
and through their program they know By the Hand, they
take kids from pre K to elementary, to middle school,
onto high school and then onto college and into a
(09:39):
profession and and stay with them in one of the
toughest communities in this country in the neighborhood of Austin. UM.
So we had the opportunity to go into that community
on the west side of Chicago. UM. We went into
some healing circles. You know, there was some social injustice
things going on at that time, and I just wanted
to bring some peace there with kids in that community.
(10:01):
But they brought the idea of letting us know they
were wanting to start a sports facility in North Austin,
and they asked me to be the head of the
baseball park of of this facility. And you know, it
didn't take long for me to say, yeah, like I
want in. UM. They were very organized, had this very
well thought out. They had the land and they've been
(10:23):
acquiring land over time. And once they shared their vision,
I said, I'm absolutely wanted to be a part of this,
to start something different. UM. I saw these communities in Chicago,
especially you know in the year like where a lot
of people were hurting. UM. Not to say that's the
first time they've been hurting, but it was just, you know,
an opportunity for us to not have a job at
(10:45):
the moment and go actually break bread with these people. UM.
To put a facility over there and give them a
community center where that's that's not a normal thing. You know,
these families don't have that. They have more liquor stores
in their communities than they do grocery stores, um, and
in places to convene as community. So that's a big
part of why I wanted to to be in this facility.
(11:05):
But then again just starts with the opportunity to give
kids somewhere to go to to have some accountability, to
build some some team sport, you know, character, some some
incentive to have somewhere to go that they can take
pride in their community. Um. But then lastly, I gotta say, um,
the way this community and Austin, the kids and and
the parents you know, reacted to things like this, the
(11:26):
positivity I'm interested to see them make it their own
and to what comes from it. That's pretty impressive. Man.
I I knew of it, but I didn't realize to
what extent in your explanation is is beautiful man um Uh, Listen,
I've known you for a while. I didn't realize how
deeply all this ran with you. And it's really impressive
to hear you explain yourself that well appreciate, appreciate this
(11:47):
is this is the uh the Cubs Roberto Clemente nominee,
and that's that's one of the biggest awards you can
be nominated for in baseball and well deserved. So we
can't talk Jason Hayward without talking about Game seven teen
World Series, and we'll do that right after a quick break.
(12:16):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. We've joined
by our special guest, Jason Hayward. And Jason, I mentioned
that Game seven World Series. How often does that game
come up around fans for you know that uh that
that Game seven it comes up, It comes up enough, right,
(12:37):
like just and I just say that because Joe, you
know how it is with with cub fans that they're
they're so appreciative and grateful that we got it done. Um,
but you know, some of them are just kind of
tickled to know, like all the little intricacies of of
our journey there and when it comes up, you know,
I'm happy to, you know, talk about it, but I
know that only the people that were there in that
(12:58):
room in that moment, and everyone there was you know,
obviously a part of our group. Only we can feel
you know, all those moments and leading into a Game seven,
which was crazy in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean the way
that I've asked about it often also just we've we've
been on kind of a book tour two and I
get that question a lot. But my my recap of
(13:19):
it is, I was when that occurred. The rain started
to come on down. I'm walking in and that dugout
in Cleveland, downstairs and and upstairs, and all you guys
are peeling off to the right, and I go upstairs
and I'm talking with Jed Hoyer just looking at the rain,
a situation on the iPad, and then somebody said, yeah,
Jason called the team meeting downstairs. And to me, and
(13:41):
this is my explanation, it was so appropriate that you
would do that and not me that the peer component
of all this, to me is what really stands out.
And it also indicates the respect that you had among
the group. I don't think there was anybody else there
at that time capable of even having the thought of
drawing them all into the room simultaneously like that and
come across with the message that you delivered. So as
(14:03):
a manager, I'm eternally grateful for that moment because I believe,
I really truly believe that sincerely that it had uh
as great an impact on anything that we did that
night in Reglets just winning that World Series. No, I
I appreciate that, and I mean being there and being
there from our Cubs convention starting in January seen to
(14:23):
that last game. You I know, you're not blowing smoke there,
Joe Hump, just just from you know, the journey we
all had. Um. You know, everyone in that room knew
that I wasn't just getting people together to to step
in and and and be a ra Ray guy or
anything like that. It wasn't about me, Um, you know,
I just wanted to remind him that, look, this is
(14:43):
this is a baseball season, and we all go through
ups and downs, and and no one's handled those ups
and downs the way we have throughout the year. Like
we've done that better than any other team. And I
said that we're not gonna stop now. You know, like
we played this game a certain way. You know, we
we handle adversity, you know, a certain way, and we're
gonna go out there and do this our way the
way the Cubs do. We laugh at it, We laugh
(15:04):
at those challenges, and you know we don't care about
the result, like we wanted to get that w and
and and the curse whatever, but more importantly just you know,
to win a ring um. But still, I really believe
that we had to do it our way and and
not focus on, you know, a moment that it's already
passed us by. We just had to focus on what
was in front of us and the opportunities we still had.
(15:26):
And I mean I tell people, every time the right
people were in the room, you know that that doesn't
happen with that group. Without that group, that really illustrates
everything I talked about regarding don't forget the heartbeat. And
I really think that that moment that we achieved there
that night, when you went into that room with the guys,
that really brought that to the forefront for me. Because
(15:46):
everybody's always looking for these analytical methods of winning a
baseball game or numerical methods of winning a baseball game,
and a lot of times that we're forgetting the human element.
And right there, it cannot be illustrated more prominently than
what happened that night with you and the boys. Uh,
the human element, the appealing to emotion and thoughts and
and even the strategic plan that we had set out
(16:07):
from the beginning of the year regarding how we're gonna
approach the day, Um, things are going to go awry.
One of the first things we talked about in the
team meetings prior to the playoffs beginning to expect something
bad to happen, and it's gonna happen, and when something
bad does happen, what's going to set us apart is
how we react to that moment. So this is the
kind of stuff that I don't think gets enough play
(16:27):
because everybody believes teams win just based on numbers. Teams
win based on personalities, really good baseball players, character and
being able to handle difficult moments in a way that's
unique to that particular group. And that's really that's not
forgetting the heartbeat, and that's what happened on that particular night,
and probably as a manager, that's what I'm most proud
of reflectively, reflectively looking back on that World series. Absolutely,
(16:53):
And uh, I just want to say, you know, on
on the show and while we had this open form,
which I think is awesome, Um, you know, with this
group of people, but no, Joe, those are things that
you were preaching from day one. Um, you know when
I signed with the team, and you also, you know,
will tell us first that you don't like to have
a lot of meetings. You know, you don't you don't
(17:13):
like talking at us. You want us to kind of
police ourselves and that, but you know, to to build
our own you know, jelling and and mojo or swagger
or whatever you want to call it. And you know,
I feel like you were always saying those exact words
that you you know, did you just finished speaking on
you know, who can handle the toughest moments the best
and overcome those. But I feel like it's very easy
(17:34):
to miss that, you know how it is when your
managers talking. You've got a great team, we want a
hundred and three regular season games, super easy to overlook that.
But when we had that moment right there, we needed
at the most and you've always been consistent with that.
Appreciate it. Um. Let me ask you this too, because
I'm listening to to your child that it didn't even
realize we go back to seven eight years old to
(17:55):
really establish this this method of operation, uh, this team's
spirited kind of method at any point, Uh, from that
moment on seventh to the point you got to the
Braves and eventually Cardinals in the and the Cubs. Was
there a moment of struggle, kind of a moment there
where you kind of doubt it yourself, you were confused
with things that you may have actually considered taking a
(18:16):
different course. I'm always interested in that because I think
a lot of successful people, when they retrace their existence,
they're going to go back to different moments in their
career where the struggle occurred and they have to make
decisions and you kind of doubt what you're doing right now?
Did that ever arrive for you? Because from what I'm hearing,
and it seems to be that you were pretty much
um devoted to a particular method of thinking her line
(18:39):
without any real doubt in your head. So was there
that struggle moment that you really were considering doing something else? Possibly? Well, Fortunately,
I think that's one thing that comes to winning. Uh,
you know, it covers up a lot of things. But
I've been on winning teams every step of the way,
and I never doubted myself. Um, I knew the game
was gonna be hard. I expected to fail. Um that's
(19:02):
you know, it wasn't cliche for me. They say with
baseball you fail more times than you succeed. Well, I
truly believe that. And and so that gave me a
sense of peace, the fact that I knew I was
gonna go out on the field every day to help
my team win, to put that best foot forward. And
over time that's what happened. You know. I saw those
things play out, did a lot of winning things on
the field off the field with teammates, and so I
(19:25):
never I never had an opportunity to doubt myself, and
that I just knew that when I'm fourteen years old, Um,
you know, I said I want to play baseball professionally.
I step on the field with eighteen year olds and
they're all throwing seven eight right there. The field got
a little bit bigger. Basis got bigger, the fences get taller,
and players are stronger. I know, like, hey, if you
(19:46):
want to do this, it's it's put up a shut up.
So I enjoyed that challenge. And uh, like I said,
just obviously winning helps cure a lot of doubts. Yeah yeah,
just as to me a sort of a neutral observer
in that game seven story you're going through, Jason, all right,
was in the dug out as a reporter for Fox,
and I saw how down the Cubs were after the
(20:10):
Indians came back and tied that game. And I also
saw a completely different team that came back into the dugout.
I now, I didn't know that you had held that meeting, Jason.
I just knew the teams sounded and looked completely different.
I'm convinced the Cubs don't win that game without what
happened during that rain delay. And I've got to go
back to something you said. It's sort of a confirmation
(20:30):
of a couple of things. Joe's methodologies that allowed players
to be empowered, where you could step up and have
a meeting like that without telling the manager, Hey, this
is what I want to do. And the other thing
is you've gone through your background to prepare for that moment,
a guy who put winning above all else. That was
true not just that night, but every night that you
(20:51):
played baseball. So I have to remind people. I never
remind you, Jason. This World Series, where you're known for
being the ultimate blue guy, began with you on the bench.
And if I believe, if I remember right, I think
Joe talked to you before game one. Here, you get
to the World Series and you're not in the starting lineup.
That to me is the ultimate glue guy who's gonna
look beyond whatever his situation is and say, how can
(21:12):
we what can I do to help us win? Period?
Do you remember was there a conversation before Game one?
There there was a conversation. But I have to say,
and and this is with over time and more understanding. Um,
you know, since then, things are happening so fast out
there right Um the way you know, a team front office,
(21:35):
you know, manager, coaching staff prepared for a game in
a series, you know, all that stuff happens fast, you know,
within itself. But when it's World Series and you've got
all the things the Cubs had going on around it,
you know, there wasn't much time for you know, you
know taking uh, you know, side conversation. Um, and I'm
not talking about just with me, but but anyone. You know,
it was like we we gotta get you know the
(21:57):
guys that we got gone, we got media, you got
you know, people ask you a billion questions on you know,
it's been a hundred and eight years Cleveland. It's been whatever,
you know, eighty five years or whatever. It was for them. UM.
So our conversation before the game was was pretty quick.
And you know, I believe that I should be playing,
no doubt. And I feel like that's what every single
(22:18):
baseball player UM has to have and better have in
those moments. You better believe you need to be on
the field. UM. But I knew what our group had,
and you know, I just wanted to hear you know
what we got, you know what what what what what
they were thinking? So I just knew how to prepare. UM.
Was never looking for an answer on hey, Jason, like
(22:39):
you know what we're gonna get you in in the
fifth inning and you know we really think that what
wasn't looking to be coddled. I just needed, you know something,
so I knew, like, well, let me have my mind
right enough to do what I need to do to
help this team win. UM. And And that was that.
So I had that conversation. You know, Joe spoke to me,
you know, said that they believed that you know, the
guys we had, which we had some guys that have
(22:59):
been there in fifteen, UM the year before already and
contribute and look, you got a hundred three game, hundred
and three win season. In the regular season, everyone contributes, right,
It's it's not just one group. So you really believe
that anyone you put out there and the best matchup
is is gonna work. Um and they're gonna do their
job that night. But I knew what I had, I
knew what I had to bring and no so I
(23:22):
that that World Series started with me on the bench
for three games in a row, um against right handed pitching,
and and that that was my beginning to my first
World Series. Parents, that is just so impressive that from
that sitting against as you said, right handed pitching, not
used to that, and being there in the crunch moment
for your team I made that that's the ultimate clue
(23:44):
guy to me, Joe absolutely um and that really that's
just that sums it all up. That's why I really
enjoyed my time with Jason so much. He was the
kind of guy. And I've talked about this in the book.
If I tell you the truth, you might not like
me for a week or ten days. If I lie
to you can hit me forever. And so you just
you with guys like Jay, you never you never wanted
to send you never want to you know, parce out
(24:06):
the truth, possibly in different ways. You've just got to
tell Jason exactly what's going on in Jason, just like
he described, Uh, he needed to know that and then
he could prepare. He knows how to prepare for that
night over that game. And that that is like that
is every manager, is every any kind of captain team
coach would ever head coach. That's the kind of guy
you want. And and everybody talks about being a team player,
(24:29):
and this this goes for coaches and managers too. We
all talked about it, but then you actually got to
live it and breathe it, and everything j just described
right there indicates what we've been talking about at this
point in this UM podcast. He is that guy, and
it started when he was seven or eight years of age,
and it was embedded in him to the point where
he gets to the World Series and we asked him
(24:50):
to not start. You know, he's not gonna be started
for the first three games and it cannot be handled
any better, to the point where he's possibly the most
inspirational component of that team victory. In this is Tom
Verducci with Joe Madden, and you're listening to the Book
of Joe podcast and when we get back, we'll talk
some more with Jason Heyward about what's next. Welcome back
(25:19):
to the Book of Joe podcast. This is Tom Berducci
with Joe Madden and Jason. Before we let you go,
there's two things we need you to do. Number one
is give us an idea of what's ahead now for
Jason Hayward. I know that Jason Hayward Baseball Academy is
going to have pretty much a soft opening in the
next month or two up and running full time. Give
(25:42):
us an idea of where you're at with that and
especially your baseball career and what might be next for you.
So I guess I love the academy stuff and with
off the field. Um, you know, first I'm gonna be
a dad. You know, we gotta we got an eight
month year old now, MESSI my wife and my wife
V and I we're doing that and we we love having,
you know, a bigger family strength, and so that's that's
(26:04):
been an amazing experience. UM. You know, if you got
I know, Joe, you have kids, Tom, if you have
kids like that's there's nothing better, but you know, going
on to this academy, UM, hoping to have construction done
first week of January, so we can have this soft opening, um,
you know, and get that in before either before kids
(26:24):
go back to school or right after, um to give
them like a fun weekend, uh, to pop their ear off.
In three. But then as far as baseball goes, man,
I'm I'm looking to get with a team that's just
trying to win a ring. You know, like obviously you
know results, you know, we we'd love to have them,
don't know how they're going to pan out, But I'm
(26:46):
looking to play for a team that you know, wants
to give me an opportunity to join what they have
going on and and put their best foot forward to
try and win the ring and compete for that. In
three after hearing all this and and hearing and even
deeper sight of you for me, um, have you even
given considerate and eventually after the playing days are done?
Is uh, what kind of employment would you like to
(27:09):
get into at that point? Is it would you like
to stay in the game at baseball as your academy
that important that you're gonna get still staying baseball in
another way? But as you're describing everything and after as
you've talked about everything today, Uh, pretty impressive, brother, really
impressive your thoughts and where you've been going. We've we've
gotten to with all of this. So have you given
(27:30):
any consideration to post baseball playing what you may want
to do in those years to follow. I appreciate that, Joe. UM.
I mean, of course, it's nice to have that constant
and you know, wanting to have an obligation with the academy. Um,
but I do believe that if I do stay in baseball,
then that's that's only gonna be better for the academy. Uh.
(27:52):
You know, some of the guys will come through Chicago
throughout the year, of course, playing for the White House,
playing for playing for the Cubs and other teams, so
it'll be easy to network. Um, but I'm not sure
what what after playing side looks like. Uh. I would
love to help a team compete. I would love to
be able to shine light, uh two players on you
(28:13):
know what it's like to come into this as a
young as a young kid, and and playing this profession. Um,
you know, it's a job, you know. I think now
it's really cool that the game is getting that much
closer to young guys that are in high school and college. Uh,
it's a beautiful thing. But I don't think they know
that checking in every day is you're going into the
(28:35):
training room getting your body right, you're going into the
cage getting loose, and you know you're you're punching the clock. Uh.
You know, I want to shine light on that stuff. Um.
But also having so many perspectives on you know, being
a free agent twenty six years old, Um, you know,
playing for three historic franchises. UM, I think I have
a lot to you know, insight to give to guys,
(28:58):
like playing for the Cubs and US winning that World Series.
I said it in h I guess you've called my
my exit press conference with the Cubbies earlier this year.
That you know, winning is a is a sacrifice and
there's so much debt that that you have to to
pay for what it takes to do that. And you know,
in everyone's world, you know, even watching you know, our
(29:21):
team over the years, you know, business wise, seeing players
move on, seeing Joe move on, you hate to see it,
you know, But I don't think people are prepared for
like what it takes to win and then what it takes,
you know, the aftermath of that. Like it's it's not
always easy but you know it's it's that mentally taxing,
there's that much dedication, that there's that much time away
from family. UM. So whenever I can do to find
(29:44):
a role that hits me there, Um, whether it's with
one team or whether it's with you know, a bunch
of teams and a bunch of guys. I think that's
that's where I can help out a lot of guys.
It's beautiful thought, well done. Well. You have so much
to offer baseball, Jason, both on the amateur level and
obviously still in the major league level. We wish you
all the best. Um. The word winner certainly comes to
(30:06):
mind when you hear the name Jason Hayward. That that
will not change the other thing I'd like you do.
We wanted to start a new segment here, Jason. We
call it a reading from the Book of Joe. I
want you to pick a number between one and three
hundred and sixty eight. That's how many pages we have
in our book, the Book of Joe. UM, just randomly
(30:26):
pick a number, and we'll go to a reading in
the course of that page, which I think will give
fans an idea that this book has a lot in it.
So your choice, your pick here one to three. I
don't know if I'm first to pick a number. I
hope I am. I want to know what's on page one,
(30:48):
So that's a great call, would this number? But you
talk about great leadoff that. I'm curious now too, what's
on one oh eight? Man? All right? The story of
Mark mc lemore, remember that one, Joe, absolutely, Jason. Have
(31:09):
you met Have you met Mark? Jason? Do you know Mark?
I don't. I don't believe, so, I don't believe. So
he's with the Texas Rangers right now doing a lot
of broadcasting, and had called him fluff, had fluff when
he was seventeen years of age and Salem, Oregon, had
a great major league career, really shined as a like
a utility guy, like really a wonderful super utility guy.
And we still stay in touch when it when he laughs,
(31:31):
he sounds like my brother Mark actually, and we've always
had this really strong connection. So anyway, this is good stuff.
Go ahead, Tommy. Yeah, well, Mark, and I'm not sure
if this ever happened with you, Jason, but he has,
like a lot of young players, he was homesick and
wanted to quit baseball. Um, he was probably what Joe
eighteen nineteen, seventeen, seventeen eighteen, Yeah, from San Diego. Wow,
(31:53):
So here we go. Joe calls him into his room
to convince him to stick around and keep playing baseball.
And what Joe had told him was that what he
was missing was no longer there. And that's a quote
from Joe. He conceded eventually that I was right. Going
back home would have been the worst thing he could
have possibly done. And he ended up having a great season.
(32:14):
We win the Northwest League championship with him playing second
base and Kevin Davis playing shortstop, both seventeen eighteen years
old at the most, and we beat the Midford A's,
who were just chock full of college players at the time.
Fluff goes on from there, He goes to the Double
A Texas League, gets hurt. We said him to Anaheim
to rehab at that time because everybody thought this guy
(32:34):
is so important to the organization. It was one of
the bigger mistakes the Angels made at that point and
something I learned a great lesson from. So Joe, he
talked Mark and the sticking around, but he made a
great point that they brought him to Anaheim as a
minor league player to rehab, and he kind of got
I don't know, what do you call it? Major league itis? Yeah,
(32:56):
I got a little full of himself at that point.
When he came back, he wasn't quite the same and
it took him some time to get old ridden. And
you have to understand, this is a kid that I
never thought that could happen with. Mark was one of
the most humble, nice, fun sincere young men that you're
ever gonna want to meet. So if it could happen
to him, it could happen to anybody. So the moral
of the story right there for me is he gets
(33:18):
hurt in double ashus, stay in Double A and get
treated like everybody else should have got treated. At that point,
it was not the time to accelerate anything for him
because you don't know, as a young person at seventeen
and he's able to handle that particular moment, he doesn't
have the kind of cachet of experience that maybe even
like Jason had starting at seven eight years of age
and moving all over the country and playing and winning
(33:39):
nineties games whatever. So anyway, he came back he was
a different cat, and it really bummed me out for
a long time. He eventually recovered, but it took him
a while. It actually took him a while to get
back to the point where he used to paint uh
an eye on his flap on his shoe. At that time,
he used to have flap like a flap. It was
the eye of the Tagger from the Rocky movies. Right
(34:02):
before is that bat. He'd go up to home play,
he'd reached down, look at the eye of the Tagger
and put it back down because it was underneath. And
then he then he proceed hit the line drive up
the middle because he just wanted to have the eye
of the Tiger and everything that he did. I love
the guy for that. But anyway, the more of the
story was that really be careful because you think some
people may not change because you think they're they got
(34:22):
it wired and they're they're so grounded and they're so
well done in all different ways, and and and Mark
taught me that that's not necessarily true. So it's not
always you can't read the book by its cover. Sometimes
you can't judge it. And that's what I learned from
that particular moment with Mark's I'd love for you to
meet him sometimes. Jay, Hey, you guys had really hit
it off. He's a beautiful human being. We stay in
(34:43):
touch and uh yeah, that's just a typical example what
happened in the minor leagues. That was two in Salem, Oregon, Salem, Oregon,
and I could I could see him sitting in my
room like it was yesterday. That's awesome. Um, could I
just say to that story? And then I love that
there's a book of these that it's so hard to
(35:04):
you know, obviously they always say the cliche highsight. Um,
you know, everything's all trial and error, but it's so
hard to especially being a part of winning and wanted
to develop people. Um, to be in the moment and
and do everything quote unquote perfectly, you know. So I
love that you have these experiences and you have a
book of them to go back and say, well, you know,
(35:25):
let me reflect on these a little bit and and
then share that because it's so hard to do in
the moment. And I do believe you need some time
in separation to look back and and dissect and and
see everything for its true value. So Jason, we can't
thank you enough. This has just been fascinating and I
personally want to thank you for not just the way
you've represented the Cubs and every team you played for
(35:46):
the major leagues, but especially giving back to this game
and especially to underserve communities. I think that's the ultimate
test of of what it takes to be a winner,
is that you give back to this game. And it's
near and dear to my heart. I'm about this game
of baseball with a small b not necessarily Major leag baseball,
but the game of baseball. Maybe not future major leaguers
(36:07):
at the Jason Heyward Academy maybe you'll have a couple hopefully,
but it's all the life lessons that you're teaching those
kids that I think, um, that that will be an
even bigger legacy than Game seven. So thank you. Yeah
the same for me, j Ward. Thank thanks for coming on, brother,
and please best to be and messy. Looking forward to
seeing you guys again and we wish you nothing but
the best of success this coming season. And of course
(36:29):
if you're endeavor with the academy, I think that's awesome
and it really probably call your friend. No. Thank you, guys.
Thank you both so much for having me on. Um.
I really appreciate you, know you guys, just taking the
time and opening up a forum. You know, I think
it's super hard to let people peek inside of our
minds and and the thoughts that we have and the
things that we wish we could make right or things
(36:51):
that we learned from as well. In this there's there's
a lot of accolades, no doubt, but to be able
to highlight the other things and and bring it all
full circles amazing. And uh, you know, lastly, this this
game has taken me so far. Uh, you know, around
the world. You know, obviously different stadiums, clubhouses are in
front of different people, but these, uh, these baseball mind
relationships are super awesome. So again, thanks for having me, guys.
(37:15):
J will Brother, thank you, Thank you, Joe. That was amazing.
Jason Hayward, Wow, I mean you knew firsthand how impressive
a person Jason is. But after listening to that, my
question is, how does a major league organization not want
to hire Chasing Hayward to play, to be in the
front office. I want him on my team no matter
(37:37):
what it is. Yeah, listen, I we he and I
were together for several years, but even this brief what
thirty minutes of conversation. He revealed a greater depth to
me than I ever ever realized in the past. His
words really well chosen, h descriptions as a counselor, outstanding
his his heart's definitely in the right place, what he's
(37:58):
looking forward to do. I love the way he speaks.
A matter of factly, Jason's always I felt, Uh, he
always thinks before he says something. He's always he's really
well thought out. And it really came through in this
episode today. Also, it makes me, it makes me like
him even more, uh, if that's even possible. But it
also validates everything I thought about him, the great team
(38:19):
player that he is and he still is. And you're right,
he's gonna benefit some group this year. And uh. And
it's a shame sometimes that we only consider batting average
or ops as the standard to which are by which
you're gonna possibly sign somebody. J. J. Ward plays the
complete game. He's a complete game players, defensive, outstanding, his
base running and again I could go, you know, the
(38:41):
five tools, whatever you want to, but then he's got
that sixth and seventh tool, his ability to relate to
people in the clubhouse. And if you need a player
or two actually mentored in the appropriate way, he's the
guy you're looking for. When I was with the Rays,
I thought we got over the hump because we did
sign Troy Percival and Cliff Floyd and uh Eric Kinsky,
and he also mentioned Ski when he was in Atlanta.
(39:03):
These are the on the players that got the two
and eight Rays over the hump. And it was for
a variety of different reasons and not just because of
an ops um. And and again, I was you asked
the question. I was going to ask the same thing,
what's going to happen afterwards? And what did he want
to do this year? And again I love his answer,
So I I was. I was really impressed, and uh
(39:24):
even more impressed. Knowing him for so many years, I
came away even greater, more greatly impressed by his answers
and his thoughts. Today. Well, we've been talking a lot
about glue guys on this podcast, and if you weren't
sure what a glue guy is, after listening to that
podcast and listening to Jason Heyward, the Ultimate glue Guy,
you know exactly what we are talking about. And I
(39:45):
love the fact that in our first rendition of the
reading from the book, of Joe. He went to one
oh eight, Like you said, everything with a purpose that
was spot on. It was. And I really was trying
to think what was his number? And uh, twenty two,
I think, right, yes, And I thought he I thought
he might have gone to twenty two, but he dumps
right to the team that brow one oh a blue guy. Joe,
(40:06):
You've got something to take us home here. Yeah, I
mean one of my favorites. I don't remember exactly where
I read this, but uh, and again comes down to
the present tense and a lot of the stuff that
j Wood was talking about it. But if we take
care of the seconds, the minutes, hours, and days will
take care of themselves. Stay in the present tense. I
love it. We'll see you next time on the Book
of Joe podcast later, my brother, Thank you. The Book
(40:34):
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