December 20, 2022 • 39 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon welcoming Yankees 1B Anthony Rizzo to the show. Anthony talks about where his leadership comes from and his early days in the game. Joe and Anthony look at the magic of the Cubs 2016 season and how momentum started in 2015. Now heading into 2023, we discuss the Yankees and Anthony resigning with New York and the unique way he kept in touch with Aaron Judge. Now that the shift is gone in baseball, how does Anthony think it will change his season? We wrap up with 'Pick a Page' and Anthony takes page 48...find out why he picked that number and what lesson we learned from the book!
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to another edition of
the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and
my good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, we got a treat today.
(00:24):
I know you're looking forward to this as much as
I am. I have been. Good morning Tom and Good
morning Anthony. We have. We've been trying to get this
guy on. He's been done in Mexico, just hanging out,
vacationing a bit. He's like a man of the world,
so it's very difficult to nail Anthony down. Plus he's
been signing a big contracts, etcetera. But really pleased to
have Anthony Rizzl on with us today. Good morning Anthony,
(00:45):
Good morning fellows. How are you guys doing. We're awesome man.
You know, we've spent a lot of time on this
podcast Anthony talking about what we call glue guys and Joe.
I can only imagine what it was like for you,
not just the pencil Anthony's name into the lineup every day,
but to know that he was taking care of things
in the clubhouse and in the dugout. So let's start
with that. Yeah, I was kind of a special I
(01:07):
thought relationship. I mean, I've been doing this for a
bit and I've had a lot of wonderful players that
are both very good baseball players and good people. But
with Anthony and I, I just I felt like you
just suggested very strongly about uh conversations with him, and
then the influence that he had we had within the group.
He had a pretty good run there for several years
and it was, I thought, a very tightly knit group
(01:28):
as a whole, and of course having his influence in
the clubhouse was outstanding. But again it's it was different
because you know, we come from the same part of
the world actually, as parents are from New Jersey, and
it was very easy for me to kind of associate
mentally with Anthony and where he was from and how
he grew up, etcetera. So it was an easy conversation
the whole time, well it was about just anything in
(01:49):
general about his foundation or mine. Anthony. I really enjoyed
our time together. I would love for it to happen again.
But again, I really I wanted you to be on
this particular show because of what Tom just described, because
I saw you as that kind of guy and you
were such a big part of us winning it all,
including catching the last out of the game that I
thought was going to sail over your head but hit
(02:11):
you right in the face. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I
mean I feel like I'll come together. Joe. Was amazing.
From the second you that it was announced that you
were coming to the Cubs, I feel like that really
turned the attitude of the organization around. And then the
next thing you know, we have John Lester're signing there
and bringing in guys to really try to win. And
(02:33):
it also included the trip to Ava. When I first
signed on, I had Anthony come up to Tampa. We
had some great meatballs and pasta, and Alva knew that
was near and deared it was hard. It was the
best way to to capture him immediately and have him
become an ally. So we had a wonderful night at
Alva two and that something that always remember. Also, so
(02:53):
the way to a first baseman's heart is through the stomach.
Anthony a couple of years ago was he's really he's
really slimmed down over the last couple years. Man, when
I see on TV right now, hardly recognized. I love that.
That's a the highest compliment you can give me. Yeah,
I mean, is it if a eating program, is it
exercise a combination? You look good man. Uh yeah, it's
just being more aware of uh when I'm putting in there,
(03:17):
that the times I'm putting it in the body, and
just eliminating more of the late night eating, which really
paid off for me just energy wise going forward throughout
the season. Let's stay right there, brother, because it looks good.
That's really good. Yeah, Anthony, I'm really curious in terms
of leadership and being a glue guy, how much of
it is nature, how much of it is nurture. There
(03:38):
has to be some combination of both. So why don't
you explain to us where your leadership skills came from?
And maybe it pre dates professional baseball some of the
influences on you. That's a great question. Um. I think
just naturally being myself, you know, in the in the
respectful way when I was very young and um in
(04:02):
San Diego, Um, for the for the short year, it
was just you learned a lot about you know, the
game and being a rookie and just questioning like I
don't understand I'm here to try to win. But then
you get the old school way of just kind of
belittling people. Uh still, so that was part of the game.
(04:26):
And then coming to the Cubs and Um immediately remember
Ryan Dempster, Pullius and I think the first day were there.
He's like, hey, we stink, but you're here to help
us win. You be you. If anyone gives you any problems,
let me know, but you're here and made me feel
welcome with open arms. And then you have Alfonso Storiano
(04:48):
doing the same thing, Starling Castro, Um, Read Johnson, Jeff Baker.
So all the guys when I first got called up
in Chicago, we're just welcome me with open arms. So
I always said to myself, I will always welcome guys
open arms and never really you know that old school ribbing, hard,
(05:09):
hard heart that you hear just story after story, And
I'm like, man, that's crazy because we're trying to win
a ballgame here, and I understand we're trying to toughen
them up, but we're also trying to get the best
we can. And that's why Joe and you came over
and you were you said right away that stuck with me,
is I can't I'm not gonna really start talking to
guys and criticizing their baseball game until I get to
(05:32):
know them and have a conversation with them. And then
once you build a relationship and a friendship with someone,
then when you go and say, hey, you know, what
do you think about this or I'm seeing this, guys
are really open to receiving it more and more than
just if you come at him and attack them kind
of percent. And let me ask you this too regards
to all of that, at what point do you think,
because it with San Diego and Boston right before you
(05:53):
got to the Cubs and when you got there, at
at what point in your career do you think it
could have been in the minor leagues? It could have
been early on in the big leagues. I don't know,
but the level three kind of situation where he really
felt I'd be long here, I can do this because
to me, until you arrive at that point, not only you,
any of us arrive at that point where I belong here,
I can do this. You really feel that and believe it.
(06:15):
That's the point that you really can't take off in
your career. In your career, they have any real recollection
of when you really felt you belonged in the big leagues. Yeah,
I did. So I got called up in two thou
eleven and I was awful, And I remember getting the
call from THEO that they were trading for me to Chicago,
and I was ecstatic. Um, I'm just more of a
(06:39):
East Coast you know, I'm not not the biggest West
Coast guy. Actually had grown to love the West Coast
now later on in my career, but early on it's
far away from home. Um. So, then spring training two twelve,
they told me right away I was gonna start in
triple A. So there was no disappointment not making the team.
I had a good spring, but I knew I was
(06:59):
going to start in triple A, which actually I thought
was the best thing for me. Um kind of made
a pretty big swing adjustment. So going to triple A,
I was doing really well, basically kind of counting down
the days once that super to cut off hits. That's
free agent cut off kind of new right around that
time period when you were getting called up, although of
(07:22):
course the teams will never admit that, but right um,
so I get called up. It was verse the Mets,
but it was a day later because Johan Santana was pitching,
and they wanted me to make my debut off alrighty
not a lefty. I was like, okay, fine. But the
next week or ten days later, we were at the Mets,
(07:44):
playing at their place, and Johan Santana was on the
mound and I think I ended up getting three or
four hits off of him, four hits in the game,
three hits off of him. One ended up being a homer.
And that was like I felt like, all right, I
could do this now, Like I know I can be
here because they were out saying we don't want to
(08:05):
bring him up first, Johan, we want them, we don't
wan him to face the lefty. And then you know,
ten days, two weeks later, facing him at City Field
in front of a lot of family for the first time. Uh.
That was really that was one of my big moments.
It's outstanding. I love that story. Um. I always think
(08:25):
of you too. Anthony is a guy who's obviously not
afraid to stand on top of the dish and I
almost invite pictures to come inside. You take that outside
pitch and make it seem like it's down the middle.
I'm not sure how long you've been doing that, Anthony,
but let it just walk us through. Maybe that was
part of your your comfort level in the big leagues
when you got to that point where this is the
way I want to hit right on top of the dish. Yeah.
(08:46):
Two thousand, Eric Kinsky was our first base coach, I believe,
and he was freshly removed out of the game, and
we would talk all the time about just approach, approach, approach, um,
even though he's the first base coach. We would just
he'd be like, hey, what were you thinking there. I
was able to relate to him so well, him being
(09:08):
left handed, and he's the one who talked to me
about moving up on the plate and with lefties especially
to make them uncomfortable. And I feel like it does.
I feel like they have nowhere to miss. So I
was struggling off lefties. I struggled off left these big time,
and two thousand their team and just that angle, I
(09:29):
see the ball so much better. Um, and throughout the
years I've backed off. It's kind of a cat and
mouse game at this point. But um, just depending on
the picture and what they're features are. But um, yeah,
it's just one of those things where you gotta stay
in there and be fearless. I know I'm gonna get
hit a lot um, but that's that's part of that's
(09:51):
part of my game. Really at this point, there's no
denying it and no armor. Joe, he doesn't wear any
armor there. No, there's nobody he used to have more
at the beginning of the show. Um, let me ask
you this too about Ski, because I had Ski, Hinski.
I had Ski in Tampa Bay, and he had the
same kind of influence on a lot of the young
(10:11):
hitters there too. And and I don't even Ski in
the game right now, Anthony, or is he out right now?
Idea of any idea. I don't believe he is. I
talked to him every year. Uh, I love him, but
now I don't think. Yeah, I don't want to get
off track, but I just want to just give him
a plug here too, because I've been around him several times.
And uh, and here's a guy that I don't know
that you know, and he's not an analytical MAYBN, so
(10:32):
he's not going to sit there and pour over reports constantly.
But those are the kind of conversations that have a
huge impact on a young plair, young hitter. It's this
kind of stuff it's approach. It's the mental approach. It's
maybe it isn't adjustment, moving a little bit closer to
the play with your back foot and all of a sudden,
like Anthony saying he saw the ball better and he
felt more confident in that spot. I could I could
do more things from this position. And those those are
(10:54):
the kind of thoughts from a coach that I think
are really not spoken about enough, are very underrated in
in the in the larger sense. So this is just
a plug for Ski. I love hope that he gets
another job up somewhere because I feel the same way. Listen,
he's a lot of fun too. Man, Ski's life. You
don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. Man,
He's one of those guys. He is straight up. But
he had a great influence on the Tampa Bay Rays
(11:15):
going to the World Series in two thousand and eight.
Also for an approach wise to just talking the game.
And this is an example of the game being passed
down from generation to generation. Carlos Delgado, he used to
tell him when he was on the Blue Jays, Hey,
I one oh auto take all the time, And for
probably five years, my percentage of swinging at a one
(11:36):
oh pitch was very low because of the benefits that
it was at that time in my career of just
not swinging at all one oh, and that was what talking.
I would wait for you to ambush the first guy
this year on the win and will count. I'll be
watching very closely. Oh well, the best is like the Orioles.
You know, guys I played against Hider knows that hydn't
(11:57):
will yell at me from the dogs. Nice auto take.
Now now it's you know, I gotta take my shots
on the one outcount. You gotta do it, man, But
you you're setting him up very nicely. I like it.
You know, you guys had an amazing staff in Chicago.
There's no doubt you win a championship. It's a team effort,
not just twenty six guys, but coaches, manager's front office.
(12:18):
And that was the epitome of teamwork in So yes,
we're gonna take a quick break and we will talk
to Anthony Rizzo about maybe a little bit about and
about the New York Yankees. Be right back. Welcome back
(12:39):
to the Book of Joe podcast. We are pleased to
be joined by Anthony Rizzo and Anthony I mean, I
don't know if it's as obvious as that last out
of Game seven, but I'm sure not too many days
go by when somebody mentions to you, championship team. What
kind of first floats to your mind when you think
about that year. I think just how much fun it
(13:00):
was from start to finish. Um, we go back to
the team and getting swept in the NLCS, and at
that time, we were convinced we're gonna win the World
Series in thousand fifteen, and we just ran into the
gauntlet of the Mets that year and they're pitching staff
and Daniel Murphy destroyed us. So getting into spring training,
(13:20):
we were just so confident that the championship was ours
to lose, and we really carried ourselves like that every
single day, no matter what. And I think that showed
throughout the year when we got off to a great start.
But going through the year, how much fun everyone had
in the in the dugout, how much fun everyone had
in the clubhouse, how much fun everyone had off the field.
(13:42):
It was just a a really enjoyable environment to come
to work to every day, and that is such a
big benefit throughout the grind of the season. I mean,
I can't agree with them more obviously. And again, these
are the kind of things that don't get enough credit
or spoken about enough, even right down to the fact
that we brought the Columbus Zoo into left field, had
(14:04):
them in left field that for one afternoon pre game,
and families came out, wives and kids came out with
the players and little things like that. And again, it's
about the fun component. It's about the human component. It's
not just about we always talk about the grind, and
it is that. I mean, people a hundred sixty two
games man, when you're playing every night, it's it's a
(14:24):
mental even more than a physical challenge. It's a mental one.
And if you I just want to pile on the
pressure or ever you want to call it and and
not try to hit that release value, let's some of
the steam up. It's it's just not gonna work. I
don't know that enough groups pay enough attention to things
like that, whereas it's it's access and knows absolutely, I'm
(14:44):
a fundamentalist when it comes down to teach you the game,
but beyond that, you have to really pay attention to
whether where your players heads are at in this sense
and what are they feeling you just just through a conversation,
lot to watch to come in the door, watch, come
back to the dugout after tough at bad, We're tough
outing on the mounta Um. These are the things that
I think make up big difference, and we did. We
(15:05):
had a we had a absolute blast that you had
an absolute blast from the spring training, our morning meetings
run by Tim buss Um, and then it includes every
day before game at home and on the road, and
then eventually start winning and you start expecting to win
on a daily basis because you're good. And I cannot
agree more with Anthony regarding all of that. Well, Anthony,
(15:25):
that leads me to a question now with the New
York Yankees, because you've seen what it takes, played a
lot in the postseason, what it takes to get through
a postseason. I understand that sometimes you do face a
hot team like you mentioned in fifteen with the Mets,
But when you look at this Yankees team that you're on,
obviously you ran up against a tough Houston team last year.
What is it going to take for this Yankees team
(15:46):
to be another version of a team that finishes off
like the sixteen Cubs. Yeah, what is it gonna take.
That's that's the golden question, right and throughout the run
from fifteen six and really the my old career of
just what it takes to win, Um, how hard it
is to win. So when you do go back to
(16:06):
that team that has won, how much went your way
and how special that group was. And you see that
with Houston. You know, everyone hates Houston. They get all
the booze on the road, all the you cheated scandal,
and they just wear it and it seems like that
pulls them together from afar and brings them together in
(16:28):
their own way. And I think that's what ultimately it
takes to win the last game of the year is
coming together in a way that is unexplainable. Because we
had a great group uh last year, and we came
together so tight, and as the playoffs went on, we
got closer and closer and we came up short. But
(16:50):
we have the ingredients there. It's just about mixing it
up the right way. And actually wrote this down before
we even started this conversation. I said that the Yankees
were the perfect You were the perfect fit for them.
It's not so much that they were the perfect fit
for you. I saw uh when you got when you
were sent to the Yankees, I immediately thought, this is
the perfect guy. You're the perfect guy for that group.
(17:10):
And not having been there, Actually we had that conversation
earlier in the year when I was still with the
Angels and I was out on the field talking to you,
and then Aaron Judge came by his first time I
met him, but I could tell uh, and again it
was almost like you brought a little bit of what
we had in the past, where there's like again the
release valve in the clubhouse. You were able to help
disarm some of the tension. And I and again just
(17:32):
from pictures and observation and I read the New York
Post only every day. Your your method with Aaron really
helped him a lot this year. And if you're helping
Aaron Judge, you're helping that entire organization. There's no question. So, um,
you were the You were perfect for them when they
were perfect for you, and that that was something that
to me that was obvious from the beginning. Thank you.
(17:53):
You know, Lester used to always say to me and
guys in general, right, Um, the grass isn't always greener
on the other side, and I used to say, well,
I got some pretty good damn soil, right, so I
can go sprinkle some good soil wherever I go and
make that make that grass a little greener. And I
used to always joke about that, and then getting traded
to New York and being in the clubhouse with you
(18:15):
know a lot of guys that are similar age, um,
with DJ Lo Mayhew, Judge, Stanton labor Torres seeing him
work every day, Brett Gardner. I go last year. I
loved Love Gardner. So being able to go there and
just be with guys who want to win and in
a very similar situation, um, just a little different structurally organization,
(18:38):
but it was such an easy clubhouse to walk into
and go and have fun and just be myself. So, Anthony,
you resigned there fairly quickly before this market went just
crazy with inflation. Clearly you love to fit there. Was
that your goal when the season ended, like, this is
my priority to get back to the New York Yankees. Um, yeah,
(18:59):
I mean I sat down with Emily and my wife
and we talked, and we really really enjoyed our time
in the city outside of Yankee Stadium, just being able
to walk around and go to Central Park and just
do just enjoy our mornings there. Um. And then getting
to play Yankee Stadium every day with the team, with
(19:20):
the guys. Um, you know, we're going to have a
chance every single year, year and year out. And I
had some conversation with Judge see what he was thinking, obviously,
but yeah, the really just Emily and I decided we
wanted to our our top priority was to stay in
New York and if that was an option early, we
(19:41):
would jump on it as long as everything felt right,
and it did, and we're pumped. We're happy to be
there for the next two three years, hopefully hopefully longer.
But take it, take it one year, one day at
a time. So how hard were you recruiting Aaron Judge
to stay there once you signed? You know, I wasn't
recruiting as hard as you would think. I just Emily
(20:01):
and I know him and Sam really well from last
year just getting closer. It was really what's gonna make
you happy? Is it gonna be ABC or D is
that here there or somewhere else? Um, And just kind
of being a more of a friend throughout the process
(20:22):
instead of a teammate thinking that zero hour when everything
would hit the fan. I was a little bit worried,
just like everyone else, but also Sue saying, you gotta
do what makes you happy and what's gonna be the
ultimately best for you. And I did set up a
couple of pictures of our dogs together because we both
have docsins saying that they we can't break them up.
(20:43):
But now it's just more encouraging of what's going to
be the best for you and Sam Well playing in
Chicago helped a lot of that transition for you to it,
Don and Antonami and I'm looking at the city, the
fan base, tradition, the media attention, all those different things
that you went through with Chicago and even to a
certain extent even briefly in Boston, and even health wise,
(21:03):
shoes that you went through in the past and on
a on almost a daily basis, what you do with
your family foundation, all those things I thought were possibly
tied into this decision as to stay there as well
as hitting and Wriggle Wrigley compared to hitting a Yankee
stayed in were two different places too, so there had
to be I think the preparation where you had been
(21:24):
before uh and eventually getting traded to the Yankees and
then playing there, There's got to be a lot of
similarities that were very comfortable for you to work with. Absolutely. Um.
I mean, I hit a few balls in April that
are outs at Wrigley and hands down, not even close,
and people look at me there like I'm crazy, but
I think, yeah, the market and Wrigley and being one
(21:48):
of the main guys for the Cubs was really easy
for me to transition to another major market and to
go in one and just be able to sit back
and just play with such a great feeling for me
because I didn't really have to deal with all the
all the logistics that go on in the sides conversations
(22:12):
that go onto the clubhouse the second half of that
season because I was so new, so I was just
kind of sat back, relaxed and see how it went.
And going into the two offseasons, I definitely wanted to
sign back with the Inks and try to make make
my mark more in the organization and just have fun
(22:35):
and win here. I mean, I think winning with the
Cubs was was amazing. The drought and it's the ultimate
championship and now I can't think of another place I'd
rather win than here in New York. UM, with the
passionate fan base, you know what you're gonna get from them.
If you suck, they're gonna boo you. It's part of it. Um.
(22:55):
If you do well, they love you. And that's kind
of the game of baseball in general. And when you're
doing well, everyone loves you. When you don't do well,
you really you really test test the people around you
a lot. It's a perfect fit the pin stripes and
Anthony Rizzo, and that includes the ballpark. By the way,
of course, you mentioned this, Anthony, and the highest launch
(23:15):
angle your career, highest poll percentage. You get rewarded for
hitting that balls left handed hitter. But I gotta ask
you now, next year, no shifts, Anthony. I mean I
went back and I looked at this in when you
hit a line driver or ground ball to the pull side,
the batting average on balls in play was three forty two.
Same thing last year with all those shifts it was
(23:37):
two thirty two. So I mean, how much you're looking
forward to the game next year, either offensively and defensively
without shifts. I really am looking forward to me as
every lefty is. Um. I've been saying this for a while.
It's been a right handed hitters game for a while,
just because of the way that they get shifted. If
(23:58):
they hit a ball, a little lazy groundball between the
third basemen the shortstop, they have a good chance of
being able to beat that out where we're just putting
our heads down and running the back to the dugout.
So we'll see. I know, I know these people in
the front office, the analytics are gonna have their own
ways of moving the outfielders and whatnot, but even that
(24:19):
will be beneficial than hitting. Uh. I think I had
like almost a hundred plate appearances to share with four outfielders,
So yeah, it'll it'll definitely be beneficial for all lefties
in my opinion. Joe, I know you're looking forward to
that where the game resembles more like it did, say
in the eighties and the nineties. Yeah, listen, I'm the
well I was at the forefront of bringing the shift
(24:40):
back I think in the nineties and Anthony, truth be told,
it started with Ken Griffe Jr. I was in the
Anaheim and I was going through my information before the game,
and I walk into see Terry Collins, who happened to
be talking to Sparky Anderson at the time, and they asked,
look at all this stuff, would you mind if I
put another one of the infielders, three guys on the
right side against Griffy, and TC says yead, I don't care.
(25:02):
So I went out there that and we did that,
and the first step batter it comes griffly after the plate.
He looks right in the dugout and he does attempt
to to bunt and it goes foul. And taught me
the result of that that that was a punch at
his first step out. Is that correct? I think he
actually popped up the bunt. I think he was out
on a bun attempt. Yeah, so that's where it began.
And I've always been a proponent of an organic shift
(25:24):
with all of this, meaning that lefties learned how to
hit the ball the other What you do, Anthony, you
do that as well as anybody. I mean, your ability
to move the ball the other side, especially with two strikes,
is uh superior to a lot of lefty hitters with power.
But it is what it is right now. I just again,
like I said, I like to see players organically shift
to make adjustments more than having things legislated, because I'm
(25:47):
always an anti legislation, if it could be, if we
can so, it's gonna be curious to watch all this.
Of course, your numbers are going to improve, Schwerber's numbers
are gonna prove a lot of the you left. These
numbers are going to improve with all of that, But
at last point, I'm curious the attempt by analytical people
how to sort convinced this. How do you get one
more guy on that side? Do you start moving as
(26:08):
the ball was pitched but you can't be everywhere. Um,
there's definitely gonna be a benefit to you guys this
coming year. I'm happy for you, I really am. I'm
happy for you guys, although I was always wanting the
minor leagues to be more held accountable in a sense
to get young left handant pull hitters to learn how
to work the ball the other way, especially with two strikes. Yeah,
I think, honestly, I think the biggest adjustment for most
(26:30):
of us in the big leagues is going to be
the pitch clock, hitting wise, just because a lot of
us have had our set hitting routines. You know, you
get out of the box, you readjust your batting loves
to where you really noticed last year, especially for the
end of the year when you get a lot of
the guys called up in triple A. Um, guys are
(26:51):
ready to go on the mountain and you're feeling rushed, rushed, rush.
So yeah, that this off season will definitely be a
an adjustment I make for making sure after a swing
to get back up right away and kind of mentally
resent a little quicker and looking forward to it. A
quicker game, I think, a more entertaining game. And we're
(27:13):
gonna take a quick break right here and we get back. Um,
we're gonna play one of our favorite games with Anthony
Rizzo Stick around, Welcome back to the Book of Joe
podcast and Anthony in previous podcasts. We like to play
(27:35):
a game we call a reading from the Book of Joe,
where we think, if you open any page in this book,
the Book of Joe with Joe Madden, Tom Berducci, you
will find something really interesting. So we have our guests
pick a number from one through three hundred and randomly,
we have not preordained what it might be. We will
(27:56):
then read from that page. So you're up at bat,
you're turning to hit Anthony you pick a number from
one to three sixty eight and see where it takes us.
Let's go number. Why is that your number? By the way,
because every other number in Nankee history is retired, so
you have real you never had it before. Huh no, No,
(28:17):
but I like, I like forty four, I like in
the forties, and I feel, yeah, well, this is one
of my favorite stories in the book. Actually, there's a
lot of I call them bull Durham moments in this
book where Joe's and you know this, Anthony is such
a long winding road to get where he's at in
this game that, as he said, the struggle is what
(28:40):
makes it all enjoyable. And this is about when he
was scouting and he wanted to go see Danny Jackson
pitch at Trinidad State Junior College in Colorado. Except the
problem was, and this is the last time Danny was
going to pitch before the draft, there was a rainstorm
that made the field unplayable. So Joe borrowed a trick
(29:05):
he learned while playing in semipro ball. I guess you'd
call it in Boulder, where they lit the field on
fire to make sure the game was playable. So here's
the story. Several players grabbed rakes, others fetched as many
gas kids that they could find, and under Madden's direction,
they raked the dirt into long furrows, poured gasoline all
(29:27):
over it, and struck a match. The infield burned for
half an hour. The field was dry enough for the game.
Jackson pitched, Madden filed his report. The Angels never had
a shot at him. The Royals took Jackson with the
first overall pick in the January draft. It was a
sense of duty, Madden says. I got it done, checked
(29:48):
all the boxes off, and then I flew back, and
of course I wrote my report. We had no chance
at him, but I burned the field myself, paid for
the gas. Of course, I expensed it, and had a
chance to watch Danny Jackson. I love that story, Joe.
It's all true. I mean, I can see it as
you're describing, and I raxal. I ran into Danny not
(30:09):
too long ago. I'm trying to remember where, and I
tried to describe the story too, and but he was
kind of in a hurry, so I didn't get it
all the way out. But yeah, I did it. In Boulder,
we fled at the field intentionally one time because I
was catching too often and me and Stan Jacobowski and
Rod Bocksburger flooded it. But then Baldi brought in some
helicopters to drive that field off. And then I had
to catch that night regardless. And then this day and um,
(30:32):
it was in Trinidad, and I was the last game
of the year. I had to leave instructurally to go
see it. I flew up there and Larry Haymes was
I don't even know if you've ever met Larry. Ri
is kind of a test master, kind of a guy.
But I got up there and I saw the game.
Like I said, I checked all the boxes. No chance
for Danny. Of course he deserved to be number one.
But that's the kind of things you did back then. Man.
(30:53):
You were just you had you had to You had
to perform the duty at hand. You just cannot call
in and say, listen to the field was wet, um
and I didn't get it as to see him. I'm sorry,
all that kind of stuff that just doesn't work. There's
you've got to be creative. You've gotta find with your
imagination how to get things done. And again part of
the struggle, of course, I probably would think about it
(31:16):
differently today if a young man, so listen, I couldn't
do it because of this, I probably would have been
fine with it. But I didn't want to take that
chance with Larry, so I I did what I did.
And I could still see sitting in those rickety stands. Um,
and I think it was Rick Zimmerman was the manager
of that particular team. Um. Just it's one of those
things you do, man, because you, like Tommy said, you've
(31:37):
got to check the boxes. You don't want to let
anybody down. Yeah, I mean that's the game of baseball.
And it's the beauty of the involvement of the game too,
is I think been amazing just you know, hearing all
the stories of the old ways and even Joel, you're
a bridge in this game, and talking to you about
scouting and when you're in the minor leagues and when
(31:57):
you're at the Angels hearing those stories and just you've
seen and YouTube as well. Tom I've seen this game
probably change every ten years or so. So um, It's
it's really one thing I love about baseball. It's just
the constant involvement of the game. And Anthony reminds me
and you know, fancy you out there playing as they
see major league players and they see such really finished
(32:20):
products that sometimes the work that goes into it is
not recognized. And I'd like to ask major league players
this question, as you're coming up, either as an amateur
or through the minor league system, how much doubt did
you have to work through? Like can I really make it? Yeah?
I mean I think there's the self doubt and the
(32:41):
the self talk is huge. Things need to go your way. Uh,
for of baseball players, you know, the first picks, the
top top prospects that get a lot of money in
the draft, even things need to go their way as well.
They're going to get more of an opportunity. But things
need to go their way in order to succeed at
(33:02):
the level that we all expect to succeed. So coming up,
you know, with the being with the Red Sox, it
was always, you know, I always hear guys saying, I
need to get out of this organization. I'm blocked to
the big leagues. And I that always stuck with me.
And I always told that the guys that I played with,
no one's no one is keeping you from the big
(33:23):
leagues except yourself. You are not blocked, you are not stuck.
You just need to keep playing and keep producing, and
one of the thirty teams will want you. Obviously things
need to happen, but there's always that self talk that
creeps in that says, oh, this might not work or
this is hard, but he's just got to keep putting
one ft in front of the other. That's great stuff.
(33:45):
So Anthony, before we get out of here, give us
a kind of a a thumbnail sketch of what the
rest of your offseason is like. We've heard about hopefully
well deserved vacation for you in Mexico, and when you
start getting that baseball, that body baseball ready, and what
the calendar looks like before we get the spring training
for you. So we're gonna enjoy the holidays and then
(34:06):
once you know, mid mid January usually is when I'll
start picking up the bat again and start throwing. Um.
Usually you said never throw before spring training, but um,
I was. I got sick of my arm being sore
in spring training, so I've started throwing beforehand. Um and
(34:28):
just going back in and uh, I've dissected the year
last year and kind of my thoughts and then I
would dive back into that again to see my strengths
and weaknesses and start putting it all together to uh
start hitting again and just that slow ramp up too.
I think it's March thirty this year to be ready
(34:49):
for them, and even getting the spring, I will start
questioning myself if I worked hard enough, because you always
have guys that are there that are trying to make
the team, that are launching home runs in live BP
when I'm just trying to make contact, but just it's
just part of the process of getting ready for opening Day. Well, Joe,
(35:09):
I think obviously I know Anthony, but I think our
listeners and maybe we're not familiar with that, they can
see why this guy is. I call him a manager's dream, teammates,
best friend in a lot of ways. But for a manager,
this has got to be the epitome of what you want.
You take twenty six Anthony Rizzos on your ball club. Yeah,
absolutely and your I think that was demonstrated through this conversation.
(35:31):
Anthony and I have enjoyed that relationship from the very beginning.
And Tony, thank you for coming on today. Can not
thank you enough. You are one of the glue guys,
And that's why when we came up with the concept,
I talked to Tom and I wanted to have you
on the show as quickly as we could. We couldn't
get you to this particular moment, but we'll take it. Also,
I just want to wish you in your family and
(35:52):
Mary Christmas and happy holidays, Emily and your mom and dad.
Please give them my best. And I'm looking forward to
our next opportunity to sit down at Alva and have
another wonderful meal. I can't wait. Thank you, guys, Thanks brother,
have a good holiday. Guys. Well, Joe, that was as
even more enjoyable than I knew it would be. Anthony
is is one of the true gentlemen in the game today,
(36:15):
and in a lot of ways, he's a role model
if you're a not just a kid falling in love
with the game, but I actually think if you're a
fellow major leaguer, just the way he carries himself. So
hopefully our listener has got a chance to peek through
that window of who Anthony Rizzo is. Just a treat Yeah,
I think it all came through he could, just the
way he speaks, very calmly, very slowly, I described himself
(36:38):
extremely well. We had conversations in the on deck circle
when he was sitting in the hole. We had conversations
about defense all the time. We had conversations about everything,
and it was always an easy conversation. Uh, he comes
into my office, he might be struggling a little bit,
he comes, sits down, We go over a few things,
whatever it might be that's bothering him. And uh, he
(37:00):
would always give me a big hug as he left
the room. M Yeah, and I I do believe he
is a very big He's an important cog with that
Yankee team going forward. I thought it was wise for
them to try to get him back, and they did because,
like I said, when he walked in there, I could
I easily. You can see in the dugout a little
more fun, a little less tension. He brings that although
(37:21):
like listen, when he's playing, he's competing. Man, this guy
is always competing, but he does it in a non
stressful way. It's uh, it's a manner by which or
with which he could utilize all of his abilities. So
there's nothing there's not anything uptight about him during the
course of a game. And I really appreciate that, so
I want to continue to wish him well there, and
I think he's going to really flourish for the next
couple of years. A lot of the reasons too, is
(37:43):
it's a much better ballpark and that than Rigley Fields
to hit him well. John'm glad you mentioned that about
how it's visible how much fun he has playing this game.
If you pay attention and watch a Yankees game, and
you'll see how many times Anthony Rizzo smiles in the
course of a game, whether it's on the rail with
Aaron Judge telling a story, whether it's on the field
with umpires in the batter's box. Personally, I love to
(38:07):
see that that. I know it's a very difficult game.
It requires intense concentration focus. He's able to do that
at the same time play with a smile in the space.
You know, little leaguers as us as little leaguers, we
all imagine that if we got to be big leaguers,
we'd have that same attitude. Well he does it, So
kudos to Anthony Rizzo. Joey, you got something to take
(38:27):
us out here. I don't know if I've used this
one before. They used the one by the Rivers of
Babylon by Nelson Demil No, please drop it on us,
because this is one of my all time favorites I read.
I'm a big Nelson Demio fan. I read a lot
of his stuff, charm School, which is going on right now.
It's about Russians coming to the United States and going
(38:49):
to this particular school to infiltrate and becoming part of society, etcetera.
But this was by the Rivers of Babylon, and this
was a great book, I thought. And in that he
said a society would survive if every day people did
every day things every day. And I I mean that
just comes down to stay in a moment, present, tense, etcetera.
(39:10):
I've always always loved that. I'll write it down and
remind myself when things get kind of hectic or a
little bit quick, because I do tend to get quick,
like we all do at times. But we will survive
if we do everyday things every day. And I thought
that was outstanding perfect. We'll see you next time, Joe,
all right, brother. The Book of Joe podcast is a
(39:36):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to another edition of
the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and
my good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, we got a treat today.
(00:24):
I know you're looking forward to this as much as
I am. I have been. Good morning Tom and Good
morning Anthony. We have. We've been trying to get this
guy on. He's been done in Mexico, just hanging out,
vacationing a bit. He's like a man of the world,
so it's very difficult to nail Anthony down. Plus he's
been signing a big contracts, etcetera. But really pleased to
have Anthony Rizzl on with us today. Good morning Anthony,
(00:45):
Good morning fellows. How are you guys doing. We're awesome man.
You know, we've spent a lot of time on this
podcast Anthony talking about what we call glue guys and Joe.
I can only imagine what it was like for you,
not just the pencil Anthony's name into the lineup every day,
but to know that he was taking care of things
in the clubhouse and in the dugout. So let's start
with that. Yeah, I was kind of a special I
(01:07):
thought relationship. I mean, I've been doing this for a
bit and I've had a lot of wonderful players that
are both very good baseball players and good people. But
with Anthony and I, I just I felt like you
just suggested very strongly about uh conversations with him, and
then the influence that he had we had within the group.
He had a pretty good run there for several years
and it was, I thought, a very tightly knit group
(01:28):
as a whole, and of course having his influence in
the clubhouse was outstanding. But again it's it was different
because you know, we come from the same part of
the world actually, as parents are from New Jersey, and
it was very easy for me to kind of associate
mentally with Anthony and where he was from and how
he grew up, etcetera. So it was an easy conversation
the whole time, well it was about just anything in
(01:49):
general about his foundation or mine. Anthony. I really enjoyed
our time together. I would love for it to happen again.
But again, I really I wanted you to be on
this particular show because of what Tom just described, because
I saw you as that kind of guy and you
were such a big part of us winning it all,
including catching the last out of the game that I
thought was going to sail over your head but hit
(02:11):
you right in the face. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I
mean I feel like I'll come together. Joe. Was amazing.
From the second you that it was announced that you
were coming to the Cubs, I feel like that really
turned the attitude of the organization around. And then the
next thing you know, we have John Lester're signing there
and bringing in guys to really try to win. And
(02:33):
it also included the trip to Ava. When I first
signed on, I had Anthony come up to Tampa. We
had some great meatballs and pasta, and Alva knew that
was near and deared it was hard. It was the
best way to to capture him immediately and have him
become an ally. So we had a wonderful night at
Alva two and that something that always remember. Also, so
(02:53):
the way to a first baseman's heart is through the stomach.
Anthony a couple of years ago was he's really he's
really slimmed down over the last couple years. Man, when
I see on TV right now, hardly recognized. I love that.
That's a the highest compliment you can give me. Yeah,
I mean, is it if a eating program, is it
exercise a combination? You look good man. Uh yeah, it's
just being more aware of uh when I'm putting in there,
(03:17):
that the times I'm putting it in the body, and
just eliminating more of the late night eating, which really
paid off for me just energy wise going forward throughout
the season. Let's stay right there, brother, because it looks good.
That's really good. Yeah, Anthony, I'm really curious in terms
of leadership and being a glue guy, how much of
it is nature, how much of it is nurture. There
(03:38):
has to be some combination of both. So why don't
you explain to us where your leadership skills came from?
And maybe it pre dates professional baseball some of the
influences on you. That's a great question. Um. I think
just naturally being myself, you know, in the in the
respectful way when I was very young and um in
(04:02):
San Diego, Um, for the for the short year, it
was just you learned a lot about you know, the
game and being a rookie and just questioning like I
don't understand I'm here to try to win. But then
you get the old school way of just kind of
belittling people. Uh still, so that was part of the game.
(04:26):
And then coming to the Cubs and Um immediately remember
Ryan Dempster, Pullius and I think the first day were there.
He's like, hey, we stink, but you're here to help
us win. You be you. If anyone gives you any problems,
let me know, but you're here and made me feel
welcome with open arms. And then you have Alfonso Storiano
(04:48):
doing the same thing, Starling Castro, Um, Read Johnson, Jeff Baker.
So all the guys when I first got called up
in Chicago, we're just welcome me with open arms. So
I always said to myself, I will always welcome guys
open arms and never really you know that old school ribbing, hard,
(05:09):
hard heart that you hear just story after story, And
I'm like, man, that's crazy because we're trying to win
a ballgame here, and I understand we're trying to toughen
them up, but we're also trying to get the best
we can. And that's why Joe and you came over
and you were you said right away that stuck with me,
is I can't I'm not gonna really start talking to
guys and criticizing their baseball game until I get to
(05:32):
know them and have a conversation with them. And then
once you build a relationship and a friendship with someone,
then when you go and say, hey, you know, what
do you think about this or I'm seeing this, guys
are really open to receiving it more and more than
just if you come at him and attack them kind
of percent. And let me ask you this too regards
to all of that, at what point do you think,
because it with San Diego and Boston right before you
(05:53):
got to the Cubs and when you got there, at
at what point in your career do you think it
could have been in the minor leagues? It could have
been early on in the big leagues. I don't know,
but the level three kind of situation where he really
felt I'd be long here, I can do this because
to me, until you arrive at that point, not only you,
any of us arrive at that point where I belong here,
I can do this. You really feel that and believe it.
(06:15):
That's the point that you really can't take off in
your career. In your career, they have any real recollection
of when you really felt you belonged in the big leagues. Yeah,
I did. So I got called up in two thou
eleven and I was awful, And I remember getting the
call from THEO that they were trading for me to Chicago,
and I was ecstatic. Um, I'm just more of a
(06:39):
East Coast you know, I'm not not the biggest West
Coast guy. Actually had grown to love the West Coast
now later on in my career, but early on it's
far away from home. Um. So, then spring training two twelve,
they told me right away I was gonna start in
triple A. So there was no disappointment not making the team.
I had a good spring, but I knew I was
(06:59):
going to start in triple A, which actually I thought
was the best thing for me. Um kind of made
a pretty big swing adjustment. So going to triple A,
I was doing really well, basically kind of counting down
the days once that super to cut off hits. That's
free agent cut off kind of new right around that
time period when you were getting called up, although of
(07:22):
course the teams will never admit that, but right um,
so I get called up. It was verse the Mets,
but it was a day later because Johan Santana was pitching,
and they wanted me to make my debut off alrighty
not a lefty. I was like, okay, fine. But the
next week or ten days later, we were at the Mets,
(07:44):
playing at their place, and Johan Santana was on the
mound and I think I ended up getting three or
four hits off of him, four hits in the game,
three hits off of him. One ended up being a homer.
And that was like I felt like, all right, I
could do this now, Like I know I can be
here because they were out saying we don't want to
(08:05):
bring him up first, Johan, we want them, we don't
wan him to face the lefty. And then you know,
ten days, two weeks later, facing him at City Field
in front of a lot of family for the first time. Uh.
That was really that was one of my big moments.
It's outstanding. I love that story. Um. I always think
(08:25):
of you too. Anthony is a guy who's obviously not
afraid to stand on top of the dish and I
almost invite pictures to come inside. You take that outside
pitch and make it seem like it's down the middle.
I'm not sure how long you've been doing that, Anthony,
but let it just walk us through. Maybe that was
part of your your comfort level in the big leagues
when you got to that point where this is the
way I want to hit right on top of the dish. Yeah.
(08:46):
Two thousand, Eric Kinsky was our first base coach, I believe,
and he was freshly removed out of the game, and
we would talk all the time about just approach, approach, approach, um,
even though he's the first base coach. We would just
he'd be like, hey, what were you thinking there. I
was able to relate to him so well, him being
(09:08):
left handed, and he's the one who talked to me
about moving up on the plate and with lefties especially
to make them uncomfortable. And I feel like it does.
I feel like they have nowhere to miss. So I
was struggling off lefties. I struggled off left these big time,
and two thousand their team and just that angle, I
(09:29):
see the ball so much better. Um, and throughout the
years I've backed off. It's kind of a cat and
mouse game at this point. But um, just depending on
the picture and what they're features are. But um, yeah,
it's just one of those things where you gotta stay
in there and be fearless. I know I'm gonna get
hit a lot um, but that's that's part of that's
(09:51):
part of my game. Really at this point, there's no
denying it and no armor. Joe, he doesn't wear any
armor there. No, there's nobody he used to have more
at the beginning of the show. Um, let me ask
you this too about Ski, because I had Ski, Hinski.
I had Ski in Tampa Bay, and he had the
same kind of influence on a lot of the young
(10:11):
hitters there too. And and I don't even Ski in
the game right now, Anthony, or is he out right now?
Idea of any idea. I don't believe he is. I
talked to him every year. Uh, I love him, but
now I don't think. Yeah, I don't want to get
off track, but I just want to just give him
a plug here too, because I've been around him several times.
And uh, and here's a guy that I don't know
that you know, and he's not an analytical MAYBN, so
(10:32):
he's not going to sit there and pour over reports constantly.
But those are the kind of conversations that have a
huge impact on a young plair, young hitter. It's this
kind of stuff it's approach. It's the mental approach. It's
maybe it isn't adjustment, moving a little bit closer to
the play with your back foot and all of a sudden,
like Anthony saying he saw the ball better and he
felt more confident in that spot. I could I could
do more things from this position. And those those are
(10:54):
the kind of thoughts from a coach that I think
are really not spoken about enough, are very underrated in
in the in the larger sense. So this is just
a plug for Ski. I love hope that he gets
another job up somewhere because I feel the same way. Listen,
he's a lot of fun too. Man, Ski's life. You
don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. Man,
He's one of those guys. He is straight up. But
he had a great influence on the Tampa Bay Rays
(11:15):
going to the World Series in two thousand and eight.
Also for an approach wise to just talking the game.
And this is an example of the game being passed
down from generation to generation. Carlos Delgado, he used to
tell him when he was on the Blue Jays, Hey,
I one oh auto take all the time, And for
probably five years, my percentage of swinging at a one
(11:36):
oh pitch was very low because of the benefits that
it was at that time in my career of just
not swinging at all one oh, and that was what talking.
I would wait for you to ambush the first guy
this year on the win and will count. I'll be
watching very closely. Oh well, the best is like the Orioles.
You know, guys I played against Hider knows that hydn't
(11:57):
will yell at me from the dogs. Nice auto take.
Now now it's you know, I gotta take my shots
on the one outcount. You gotta do it, man, But
you you're setting him up very nicely. I like it.
You know, you guys had an amazing staff in Chicago.
There's no doubt you win a championship. It's a team effort,
not just twenty six guys, but coaches, manager's front office.
(12:18):
And that was the epitome of teamwork in So yes,
we're gonna take a quick break and we will talk
to Anthony Rizzo about maybe a little bit about and
about the New York Yankees. Be right back. Welcome back
(12:39):
to the Book of Joe podcast. We are pleased to
be joined by Anthony Rizzo and Anthony I mean, I
don't know if it's as obvious as that last out
of Game seven, but I'm sure not too many days
go by when somebody mentions to you, championship team. What
kind of first floats to your mind when you think
about that year. I think just how much fun it
(13:00):
was from start to finish. Um, we go back to
the team and getting swept in the NLCS, and at
that time, we were convinced we're gonna win the World
Series in thousand fifteen, and we just ran into the
gauntlet of the Mets that year and they're pitching staff
and Daniel Murphy destroyed us. So getting into spring training,
(13:20):
we were just so confident that the championship was ours
to lose, and we really carried ourselves like that every
single day, no matter what. And I think that showed
throughout the year when we got off to a great start.
But going through the year, how much fun everyone had
in the in the dugout, how much fun everyone had
in the clubhouse, how much fun everyone had off the field.
(13:42):
It was just a a really enjoyable environment to come
to work to every day, and that is such a
big benefit throughout the grind of the season. I mean,
I can't agree with them more obviously. And again, these
are the kind of things that don't get enough credit
or spoken about enough, even right down to the fact
that we brought the Columbus Zoo into left field, had
(14:04):
them in left field that for one afternoon pre game,
and families came out, wives and kids came out with
the players and little things like that. And again, it's
about the fun component. It's about the human component. It's
not just about we always talk about the grind, and
it is that. I mean, people a hundred sixty two
games man, when you're playing every night, it's it's a
(14:24):
mental even more than a physical challenge. It's a mental one.
And if you I just want to pile on the
pressure or ever you want to call it and and
not try to hit that release value, let's some of
the steam up. It's it's just not gonna work. I
don't know that enough groups pay enough attention to things
like that, whereas it's it's access and knows absolutely, I'm
(14:44):
a fundamentalist when it comes down to teach you the game,
but beyond that, you have to really pay attention to
whether where your players heads are at in this sense
and what are they feeling you just just through a conversation,
lot to watch to come in the door, watch, come
back to the dugout after tough at bad, We're tough
outing on the mounta Um. These are the things that
I think make up big difference, and we did. We
(15:05):
had a we had a absolute blast that you had
an absolute blast from the spring training, our morning meetings
run by Tim buss Um, and then it includes every
day before game at home and on the road, and
then eventually start winning and you start expecting to win
on a daily basis because you're good. And I cannot
agree more with Anthony regarding all of that. Well, Anthony,
(15:25):
that leads me to a question now with the New
York Yankees, because you've seen what it takes, played a
lot in the postseason, what it takes to get through
a postseason. I understand that sometimes you do face a
hot team like you mentioned in fifteen with the Mets,
But when you look at this Yankees team that you're on,
obviously you ran up against a tough Houston team last year.
What is it going to take for this Yankees team
(15:46):
to be another version of a team that finishes off
like the sixteen Cubs. Yeah, what is it gonna take.
That's that's the golden question, right and throughout the run
from fifteen six and really the my old career of
just what it takes to win, Um, how hard it
is to win. So when you do go back to
(16:06):
that team that has won, how much went your way
and how special that group was. And you see that
with Houston. You know, everyone hates Houston. They get all
the booze on the road, all the you cheated scandal,
and they just wear it and it seems like that
pulls them together from afar and brings them together in
(16:28):
their own way. And I think that's what ultimately it
takes to win the last game of the year is
coming together in a way that is unexplainable. Because we
had a great group uh last year, and we came
together so tight, and as the playoffs went on, we
got closer and closer and we came up short. But
(16:50):
we have the ingredients there. It's just about mixing it
up the right way. And actually wrote this down before
we even started this conversation. I said that the Yankees
were the perfect You were the perfect fit for them.
It's not so much that they were the perfect fit
for you. I saw uh when you got when you
were sent to the Yankees, I immediately thought, this is
the perfect guy. You're the perfect guy for that group.
(17:10):
And not having been there, Actually we had that conversation
earlier in the year when I was still with the
Angels and I was out on the field talking to you,
and then Aaron Judge came by his first time I
met him, but I could tell uh, and again it
was almost like you brought a little bit of what
we had in the past, where there's like again the
release valve in the clubhouse. You were able to help
disarm some of the tension. And I and again just
(17:32):
from pictures and observation and I read the New York
Post only every day. Your your method with Aaron really
helped him a lot this year. And if you're helping
Aaron Judge, you're helping that entire organization. There's no question. So, um,
you were the You were perfect for them when they
were perfect for you, and that that was something that
to me that was obvious from the beginning. Thank you.
(17:53):
You know, Lester used to always say to me and
guys in general, right, Um, the grass isn't always greener
on the other side, and I used to say, well,
I got some pretty good damn soil, right, so I
can go sprinkle some good soil wherever I go and
make that make that grass a little greener. And I
used to always joke about that, and then getting traded
to New York and being in the clubhouse with you
(18:15):
know a lot of guys that are similar age, um,
with DJ Lo Mayhew, Judge, Stanton labor Torres seeing him
work every day, Brett Gardner. I go last year. I
loved Love Gardner. So being able to go there and
just be with guys who want to win and in
a very similar situation, um, just a little different structurally organization,
(18:38):
but it was such an easy clubhouse to walk into
and go and have fun and just be myself. So, Anthony,
you resigned there fairly quickly before this market went just
crazy with inflation. Clearly you love to fit there. Was
that your goal when the season ended, like, this is
my priority to get back to the New York Yankees. Um, yeah,
(18:59):
I mean I sat down with Emily and my wife
and we talked, and we really really enjoyed our time
in the city outside of Yankee Stadium, just being able
to walk around and go to Central Park and just
do just enjoy our mornings there. Um. And then getting
to play Yankee Stadium every day with the team, with
(19:20):
the guys. Um, you know, we're going to have a
chance every single year, year and year out. And I
had some conversation with Judge see what he was thinking, obviously,
but yeah, the really just Emily and I decided we
wanted to our our top priority was to stay in
New York and if that was an option early, we
(19:41):
would jump on it as long as everything felt right,
and it did, and we're pumped. We're happy to be
there for the next two three years, hopefully hopefully longer.
But take it, take it one year, one day at
a time. So how hard were you recruiting Aaron Judge
to stay there once you signed? You know, I wasn't
recruiting as hard as you would think. I just Emily
(20:01):
and I know him and Sam really well from last
year just getting closer. It was really what's gonna make
you happy? Is it gonna be ABC or D is
that here there or somewhere else? Um, And just kind
of being a more of a friend throughout the process
(20:22):
instead of a teammate thinking that zero hour when everything
would hit the fan. I was a little bit worried,
just like everyone else, but also Sue saying, you gotta
do what makes you happy and what's gonna be the
ultimately best for you. And I did set up a
couple of pictures of our dogs together because we both
have docsins saying that they we can't break them up.
(20:43):
But now it's just more encouraging of what's going to
be the best for you and Sam Well playing in
Chicago helped a lot of that transition for you to it,
Don and Antonami and I'm looking at the city, the
fan base, tradition, the media attention, all those different things
that you went through with Chicago and even to a
certain extent even briefly in Boston, and even health wise,
(21:03):
shoes that you went through in the past and on
a on almost a daily basis, what you do with
your family foundation, all those things I thought were possibly
tied into this decision as to stay there as well
as hitting and Wriggle Wrigley compared to hitting a Yankee
stayed in were two different places too, so there had
to be I think the preparation where you had been
(21:24):
before uh and eventually getting traded to the Yankees and
then playing there, There's got to be a lot of
similarities that were very comfortable for you to work with. Absolutely. Um.
I mean, I hit a few balls in April that
are outs at Wrigley and hands down, not even close,
and people look at me there like I'm crazy, but
I think, yeah, the market and Wrigley and being one
(21:48):
of the main guys for the Cubs was really easy
for me to transition to another major market and to
go in one and just be able to sit back
and just play with such a great feeling for me
because I didn't really have to deal with all the
all the logistics that go on in the sides conversations
(22:12):
that go onto the clubhouse the second half of that
season because I was so new, so I was just
kind of sat back, relaxed and see how it went.
And going into the two offseasons, I definitely wanted to
sign back with the Inks and try to make make
my mark more in the organization and just have fun
(22:35):
and win here. I mean, I think winning with the
Cubs was was amazing. The drought and it's the ultimate
championship and now I can't think of another place I'd
rather win than here in New York. UM, with the
passionate fan base, you know what you're gonna get from them.
If you suck, they're gonna boo you. It's part of it. Um.
(22:55):
If you do well, they love you. And that's kind
of the game of baseball in general. And when you're
doing well, everyone loves you. When you don't do well,
you really you really test test the people around you
a lot. It's a perfect fit the pin stripes and
Anthony Rizzo, and that includes the ballpark. By the way,
of course, you mentioned this, Anthony, and the highest launch
(23:15):
angle your career, highest poll percentage. You get rewarded for
hitting that balls left handed hitter. But I gotta ask
you now, next year, no shifts, Anthony. I mean I
went back and I looked at this in when you
hit a line driver or ground ball to the pull side,
the batting average on balls in play was three forty two.
Same thing last year with all those shifts it was
(23:37):
two thirty two. So I mean, how much you're looking
forward to the game next year, either offensively and defensively
without shifts. I really am looking forward to me as
every lefty is. Um. I've been saying this for a while.
It's been a right handed hitters game for a while,
just because of the way that they get shifted. If
(23:58):
they hit a ball, a little lazy groundball between the
third basemen the shortstop, they have a good chance of
being able to beat that out where we're just putting
our heads down and running the back to the dugout.
So we'll see. I know, I know these people in
the front office, the analytics are gonna have their own
ways of moving the outfielders and whatnot, but even that
(24:19):
will be beneficial than hitting. Uh. I think I had
like almost a hundred plate appearances to share with four outfielders,
So yeah, it'll it'll definitely be beneficial for all lefties
in my opinion. Joe, I know you're looking forward to
that where the game resembles more like it did, say
in the eighties and the nineties. Yeah, listen, I'm the
well I was at the forefront of bringing the shift
(24:40):
back I think in the nineties and Anthony, truth be told,
it started with Ken Griffe Jr. I was in the
Anaheim and I was going through my information before the game,
and I walk into see Terry Collins, who happened to
be talking to Sparky Anderson at the time, and they asked,
look at all this stuff, would you mind if I
put another one of the infielders, three guys on the
right side against Griffy, and TC says yead, I don't care.
(25:02):
So I went out there that and we did that,
and the first step batter it comes griffly after the plate.
He looks right in the dugout and he does attempt
to to bunt and it goes foul. And taught me
the result of that that that was a punch at
his first step out. Is that correct? I think he
actually popped up the bunt. I think he was out
on a bun attempt. Yeah, so that's where it began.
And I've always been a proponent of an organic shift
(25:24):
with all of this, meaning that lefties learned how to
hit the ball the other What you do, Anthony, you
do that as well as anybody. I mean, your ability
to move the ball the other side, especially with two strikes,
is uh superior to a lot of lefty hitters with power.
But it is what it is right now. I just again,
like I said, I like to see players organically shift
to make adjustments more than having things legislated, because I'm
(25:47):
always an anti legislation, if it could be, if we
can so, it's gonna be curious to watch all this.
Of course, your numbers are going to improve, Schwerber's numbers
are gonna prove a lot of the you left. These
numbers are going to improve with all of that, But
at last point, I'm curious the attempt by analytical people
how to sort convinced this. How do you get one
more guy on that side? Do you start moving as
(26:08):
the ball was pitched but you can't be everywhere. Um,
there's definitely gonna be a benefit to you guys this
coming year. I'm happy for you, I really am. I'm
happy for you guys, although I was always wanting the
minor leagues to be more held accountable in a sense
to get young left handant pull hitters to learn how
to work the ball the other way, especially with two strikes. Yeah,
I think, honestly, I think the biggest adjustment for most
(26:30):
of us in the big leagues is going to be
the pitch clock, hitting wise, just because a lot of
us have had our set hitting routines. You know, you
get out of the box, you readjust your batting loves
to where you really noticed last year, especially for the
end of the year when you get a lot of
the guys called up in triple A. Um, guys are
(26:51):
ready to go on the mountain and you're feeling rushed, rushed, rush.
So yeah, that this off season will definitely be a
an adjustment I make for making sure after a swing
to get back up right away and kind of mentally
resent a little quicker and looking forward to it. A
quicker game, I think, a more entertaining game. And we're
(27:13):
gonna take a quick break right here and we get back. Um,
we're gonna play one of our favorite games with Anthony
Rizzo Stick around, Welcome back to the Book of Joe
podcast and Anthony in previous podcasts. We like to play
(27:35):
a game we call a reading from the Book of Joe,
where we think, if you open any page in this book,
the Book of Joe with Joe Madden, Tom Berducci, you
will find something really interesting. So we have our guests
pick a number from one through three hundred and randomly,
we have not preordained what it might be. We will
(27:56):
then read from that page. So you're up at bat,
you're turning to hit Anthony you pick a number from
one to three sixty eight and see where it takes us.
Let's go number. Why is that your number? By the way,
because every other number in Nankee history is retired, so
you have real you never had it before. Huh no, No,
(28:17):
but I like, I like forty four, I like in
the forties, and I feel, yeah, well, this is one
of my favorite stories in the book. Actually, there's a
lot of I call them bull Durham moments in this
book where Joe's and you know this, Anthony is such
a long winding road to get where he's at in
this game that, as he said, the struggle is what
(28:40):
makes it all enjoyable. And this is about when he
was scouting and he wanted to go see Danny Jackson
pitch at Trinidad State Junior College in Colorado. Except the
problem was, and this is the last time Danny was
going to pitch before the draft, there was a rainstorm
that made the field unplayable. So Joe borrowed a trick
(29:05):
he learned while playing in semipro ball. I guess you'd
call it in Boulder, where they lit the field on
fire to make sure the game was playable. So here's
the story. Several players grabbed rakes, others fetched as many
gas kids that they could find, and under Madden's direction,
they raked the dirt into long furrows, poured gasoline all
(29:27):
over it, and struck a match. The infield burned for
half an hour. The field was dry enough for the game.
Jackson pitched, Madden filed his report. The Angels never had
a shot at him. The Royals took Jackson with the
first overall pick in the January draft. It was a
sense of duty, Madden says. I got it done, checked
(29:48):
all the boxes off, and then I flew back, and
of course I wrote my report. We had no chance
at him, but I burned the field myself, paid for
the gas. Of course, I expensed it, and had a
chance to watch Danny Jackson. I love that story, Joe.
It's all true. I mean, I can see it as
you're describing, and I raxal. I ran into Danny not
(30:09):
too long ago. I'm trying to remember where, and I
tried to describe the story too, and but he was
kind of in a hurry, so I didn't get it
all the way out. But yeah, I did it. In Boulder,
we fled at the field intentionally one time because I
was catching too often and me and Stan Jacobowski and
Rod Bocksburger flooded it. But then Baldi brought in some
helicopters to drive that field off. And then I had
to catch that night regardless. And then this day and um,
(30:32):
it was in Trinidad, and I was the last game
of the year. I had to leave instructurally to go
see it. I flew up there and Larry Haymes was
I don't even know if you've ever met Larry. Ri
is kind of a test master, kind of a guy.
But I got up there and I saw the game.
Like I said, I checked all the boxes. No chance
for Danny. Of course he deserved to be number one.
But that's the kind of things you did back then. Man.
(30:53):
You were just you had you had to You had
to perform the duty at hand. You just cannot call
in and say, listen to the field was wet, um
and I didn't get it as to see him. I'm sorry,
all that kind of stuff that just doesn't work. There's
you've got to be creative. You've gotta find with your
imagination how to get things done. And again part of
the struggle, of course, I probably would think about it
(31:16):
differently today if a young man, so listen, I couldn't
do it because of this, I probably would have been
fine with it. But I didn't want to take that
chance with Larry, so I I did what I did.
And I could still see sitting in those rickety stands. Um,
and I think it was Rick Zimmerman was the manager
of that particular team. Um. Just it's one of those
things you do, man, because you, like Tommy said, you've
(31:37):
got to check the boxes. You don't want to let
anybody down. Yeah, I mean that's the game of baseball.
And it's the beauty of the involvement of the game too,
is I think been amazing just you know, hearing all
the stories of the old ways and even Joel, you're
a bridge in this game, and talking to you about
scouting and when you're in the minor leagues and when
(31:57):
you're at the Angels hearing those stories and just you've
seen and YouTube as well. Tom I've seen this game
probably change every ten years or so. So um, It's
it's really one thing I love about baseball. It's just
the constant involvement of the game. And Anthony reminds me
and you know, fancy you out there playing as they
see major league players and they see such really finished
(32:20):
products that sometimes the work that goes into it is
not recognized. And I'd like to ask major league players
this question, as you're coming up, either as an amateur
or through the minor league system, how much doubt did
you have to work through? Like can I really make it? Yeah?
I mean I think there's the self doubt and the
(32:41):
the self talk is huge. Things need to go your way. Uh,
for of baseball players, you know, the first picks, the
top top prospects that get a lot of money in
the draft, even things need to go their way as well.
They're going to get more of an opportunity. But things
need to go their way in order to succeed at
(33:02):
the level that we all expect to succeed. So coming up,
you know, with the being with the Red Sox, it
was always, you know, I always hear guys saying, I
need to get out of this organization. I'm blocked to
the big leagues. And I that always stuck with me.
And I always told that the guys that I played with,
no one's no one is keeping you from the big
(33:23):
leagues except yourself. You are not blocked, you are not stuck.
You just need to keep playing and keep producing, and
one of the thirty teams will want you. Obviously things
need to happen, but there's always that self talk that
creeps in that says, oh, this might not work or
this is hard, but he's just got to keep putting
one ft in front of the other. That's great stuff.
(33:45):
So Anthony, before we get out of here, give us
a kind of a a thumbnail sketch of what the
rest of your offseason is like. We've heard about hopefully
well deserved vacation for you in Mexico, and when you
start getting that baseball, that body baseball ready, and what
the calendar looks like before we get the spring training
for you. So we're gonna enjoy the holidays and then
(34:06):
once you know, mid mid January usually is when I'll
start picking up the bat again and start throwing. Um.
Usually you said never throw before spring training, but um,
I was. I got sick of my arm being sore
in spring training, so I've started throwing beforehand. Um and
(34:28):
just going back in and uh, I've dissected the year
last year and kind of my thoughts and then I
would dive back into that again to see my strengths
and weaknesses and start putting it all together to uh
start hitting again and just that slow ramp up too.
I think it's March thirty this year to be ready
(34:49):
for them, and even getting the spring, I will start
questioning myself if I worked hard enough, because you always
have guys that are there that are trying to make
the team, that are launching home runs in live BP
when I'm just trying to make contact, but just it's
just part of the process of getting ready for opening Day. Well, Joe,
(35:09):
I think obviously I know Anthony, but I think our
listeners and maybe we're not familiar with that, they can
see why this guy is. I call him a manager's dream, teammates,
best friend in a lot of ways. But for a manager,
this has got to be the epitome of what you want.
You take twenty six Anthony Rizzos on your ball club. Yeah,
absolutely and your I think that was demonstrated through this conversation.
(35:31):
Anthony and I have enjoyed that relationship from the very beginning.
And Tony, thank you for coming on today. Can not
thank you enough. You are one of the glue guys,
And that's why when we came up with the concept,
I talked to Tom and I wanted to have you
on the show as quickly as we could. We couldn't
get you to this particular moment, but we'll take it. Also,
I just want to wish you in your family and
(35:52):
Mary Christmas and happy holidays, Emily and your mom and dad.
Please give them my best. And I'm looking forward to
our next opportunity to sit down at Alva and have
another wonderful meal. I can't wait. Thank you, guys, Thanks brother,
have a good holiday. Guys. Well, Joe, that was as
even more enjoyable than I knew it would be. Anthony
is is one of the true gentlemen in the game today,
(36:15):
and in a lot of ways, he's a role model
if you're a not just a kid falling in love
with the game, but I actually think if you're a
fellow major leaguer, just the way he carries himself. So
hopefully our listener has got a chance to peek through
that window of who Anthony Rizzo is. Just a treat Yeah,
I think it all came through he could, just the
way he speaks, very calmly, very slowly, I described himself
(36:38):
extremely well. We had conversations in the on deck circle
when he was sitting in the hole. We had conversations
about defense all the time. We had conversations about everything,
and it was always an easy conversation. Uh, he comes
into my office, he might be struggling a little bit,
he comes, sits down, We go over a few things,
whatever it might be that's bothering him. And uh, he
(37:00):
would always give me a big hug as he left
the room. M Yeah, and I I do believe he
is a very big He's an important cog with that
Yankee team going forward. I thought it was wise for
them to try to get him back, and they did because,
like I said, when he walked in there, I could
I easily. You can see in the dugout a little
more fun, a little less tension. He brings that although
(37:21):
like listen, when he's playing, he's competing. Man, this guy
is always competing, but he does it in a non
stressful way. It's uh, it's a manner by which or
with which he could utilize all of his abilities. So
there's nothing there's not anything uptight about him during the
course of a game. And I really appreciate that, so
I want to continue to wish him well there, and
I think he's going to really flourish for the next
couple of years. A lot of the reasons too, is
(37:43):
it's a much better ballpark and that than Rigley Fields
to hit him well. John'm glad you mentioned that about
how it's visible how much fun he has playing this game.
If you pay attention and watch a Yankees game, and
you'll see how many times Anthony Rizzo smiles in the
course of a game, whether it's on the rail with
Aaron Judge telling a story, whether it's on the field
with umpires in the batter's box. Personally, I love to
(38:07):
see that that. I know it's a very difficult game.
It requires intense concentration focus. He's able to do that
at the same time play with a smile in the space.
You know, little leaguers as us as little leaguers, we
all imagine that if we got to be big leaguers,
we'd have that same attitude. Well he does it, So
kudos to Anthony Rizzo. Joey, you got something to take
(38:27):
us out here. I don't know if I've used this
one before. They used the one by the Rivers of
Babylon by Nelson Demil No, please drop it on us,
because this is one of my all time favorites I read.
I'm a big Nelson Demio fan. I read a lot
of his stuff, charm School, which is going on right now.
It's about Russians coming to the United States and going
(38:49):
to this particular school to infiltrate and becoming part of society, etcetera.
But this was by the Rivers of Babylon, and this
was a great book, I thought. And in that he
said a society would survive if every day people did
every day things every day. And I I mean that
just comes down to stay in a moment, present, tense, etcetera.
(39:10):
I've always always loved that. I'll write it down and
remind myself when things get kind of hectic or a
little bit quick, because I do tend to get quick,
like we all do at times. But we will survive
if we do everyday things every day. And I thought
that was outstanding perfect. We'll see you next time, Joe,
all right, brother. The Book of Joe podcast is a
(39:36):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
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