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May 15, 2024 53 mins

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe Podcast', Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci discuss the injury to Willson Contreras while Joe stresses the artistry of catching and the importance of technique.  We look at the struggles of Craig Kimbrel with the Orioles and the challenges faced by Kris Bryant after his deal with the Rockies.  Plus, Joe doesn't understand the current SUV craze and what happened to the American sedan?  

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey there, welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci
and of.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Course Joe Madden.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Joe, we're going to get into some of your favorite subjects,
including the death of the American Sedan. But before we
do that, another one of your favorite subjects I know
is catching and the state of catching has been in
the news in the last week because one of your
former players, Wilson Contreras, is now out for ten weeks

because he got hit with the barrel of the bat
of JD. Martinez and by reaching out to try to
frame a pitch, he is out for ten weeks with
a broken arm.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
This is what's happening in the game.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
You see it, Joe, These guys and Olie Marmaal, the
Cardinals manager, talked about this. Catchers want to improve their
framing stats, so they getting to the plate, and more
so than that, on low pitches, they're reaching out to
try to grab those pitches before they drop further, so
the umpire takes a look at it. I got to
start with you. You're a catching guy. What's your thought

on what's happening here with the state of catching in
terms of the emphasis on framing pitches.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Again, it's just reducing the artistry of catching. First of all,
that's one on one. You want to get as close
to the hitters you possibly can, and that was always
been there in order to receive a strike. It's nothing new.
I mean, people like talk about these things as though
it's just been invented. I had three catchers interferences in
one game, Appleton versus Appleton Foxes.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
I was with the Quad City Angels.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
We're playing in Davenport, Iowa, and they ran. They ran
a lot, so they're not gonna run on me. So
I was up so tight. Three times in one game
the batter clipped in front of my glove and finally
moves through being My manager yelled from the dugout sit
in the FN weeds and thought I looked at me,

I said, what does that mean?

Speaker 4 (02:06):

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Okay, I get it, but yeah, like we've been doing
that forever. You always wanted to be tight, and even
people don't even talk about it. The big thing is
foul tips. Foul tips with two strikes. I want them
caught a lot of times a day. Relies on happenstance
to me. Two things. Have your glove tightened on the
top regarding the web numer one number Two, you got
to get tight to the hitter for me with the Angels,

I think I did it with the Kubbies.

Speaker 4 (02:30):

Speaker 3 (02:31):
If you caught a third strike, if you caught three
third strikes.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
In the game, it was a nice bottle of wine.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
If you caught the third strike of the game. Three,
the third strike of the game out game over on
a foul tip. That was a magnum. That's how important
it was to me. Foul tips. So the game changes
so often after foul tips, So all this stuff is
at new. Reaching out is what's new for me. Bob Boone,
I was with Boonie for a while with the Angels,

and Boonie was very good at receiving strikes. I remember
how low Boonie sat, almost like his butt on the ground.
Mooney described to me how he caught. It was like
a solo cup, you know, the little pointed solo cups.
The circumference of the cup would be the strike zone,
and as he received the ball, he would always bring
it back to the point of the cup to his chest.
In other words, if the ball was down, you would

always get and think of this too. Mentally, this was
my thing. Mentally get lower than the ball. You get
mentally lower than the balls that's coming to That then
permitted you to get under the ball and bring it
up to you outside both the edges. You want to
get outside the ball, outside the ball, ball high up.
You want to get over the ball. Always bring it
back to the point of the cone in your chest.

Nothing new. Like I said, the difference would be two things.
Is they're reaching out, which that was never encourage. You're
supposed to stick it, hold it, and again withholding it.
I watched these games and I'm kind of like surprised
that umpires don't get on catchers for pulling the pitch
so much.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
I mean framing or pulling. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
And I really would expect to see more of that
because these umpires have the benefit of watching this stuff
on video before they work in front of or behind
the catcher. The guy's pulling a lot of pitches. I
back in the day, man, maybe you would be told
stop doing that.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
You ain't getting anything.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
So it's pulling pitches, framing pitches, it's pulling them and
then how much can I get away with? So all
this is part of the game. It's been permitted to
go on, but it's nothing new, it's just being spoken
about differently. The biggest difference would be on the knee
less than two strikes. Nobody on base on the knee

was always acceptable. Tony pen used to sit with his
legout on his butt catching for the Indians with Herscheiser
and all those dudes grabbing strikes all the time, and
they say it even more strikes by signing a dozen
balls before the game. So this is that's how that
thing has worked forever. So knee on the ground is
really some guys are actually pretty good at it. I

can't blame I can't land base to anybody or all
of them. But a lot of it has to do
with reaching run around third base. That you don't change
the technique at all because you're going to hear from
analytical people what's gonna happen more often, the ability to
catch a low strike. We're having to block a ball
in the dirt even though realizing that if you don't,
it's a run. So these are the kind of conversations

that are being generated and a lot of it not
all of it's being generated through analytical concepts. And while
you're doing that, you're really defaming the artistry of catching
in the major leagues in baseball in general.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Boy, I really got your motor going today, Joe. Right, wow,
And I love the fact that you just slipped in
there signing a dozen balls before the game start starting pitcher.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Glad did that work? Oh?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So listen, you know the job for me for a catcher.
Job one, make sure the strikes are strikes. That's right,
don't lose a strike as job number one. Number two,
I agree with you. I don't get it when I
see some of these catchers pulling pitches that should never happen.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
It should be a subtle art.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
It should be fingers like curling around the ball on
the edges of the plate or making sure, as you said,
that glove is underneath the strike zone and catching it
in an upward motion gently, I would say, if I
can use that word as it relates to catching. But yeah,
I see a lot of guys at the whole hand
the arm are moving and they, I guess, are getting calls.

Here's my beef with the whole pitch framing thing. And
Ali Marmol is right. These catchers know that they are
being judged and we're talking about money eventually.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
That's what it comes down to.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're being judged by a metric that I think is
not really a true metric, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Listen, I like the idea of framing.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
There's no doubt it's a powerful skill. It's always been
a skill in the game, and I think it is now.
And in our haste to measure every darn thing in
the game, we came up with a measurement of framing.
So if I'm the umpire and I missed the call,
I have a As you know, Joe, a lot of
these umpires set up inside, you know, they have a
hard time seeing the pitch on the outside part of
the plate. If I'm an umpire I missed that pitch,

the catcher is going to get credit for quote unquote
stealing a strike. So how can the metric account for that? Well,
it doesn't. Here's my other beef. I hope you agree
with me on this, Joe, that if you're a good
defensive catcher like a Bob Boone, you're a good defensive
catcher all the time. Doesn't mean you don't have a
bad game once in a while, but year to year,
you know what you're getting that defensive skill. It's the

same for a defender in the field. It's not a
fungible asset hitting. Yeah, I can go up and down.
My beef. Here is I'm looking at the top three
rated framing catchers in the game right now. Alejandro Kirk,
Jose Trevino the Yankees, Elias Diaz of the Rockies. Last year,
Kirk was thirteenth. Okay, Trevino was tenth, All right, at

least they're the top ten. Diez was fifty eighth. You
have from fifty eighth to third in the blink of
an eye. How about Adlie Rushman Oriols people like him
behind and play. I think he does a good job.
He was fifteenth in the major leagues last year in framing.
Makes sense, he's forty ninth this year. He all of
a sudden became a bad framer. I cannot buy a

statistic that doesn't pass the logic test, and that's what
it doesn't do for me. Joe and I see guys
going up and down with framing.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, you got me over the map right now. I
mean there's wonderful points. I agree, Yes, I do agree.
What do you start? What do analysts do? Analysts analyze?
So if you hire analysts to analyze when they have
nothing else to do, they're going to think of something
else to do. So does all these framing situations come
into play? And guys that you've mentioned, And I'm not

here to denigrate anybody, but you know, physically movement behind
the plate not there. I mean, it's just about like
you're saying, their whole world's being built upon around the
fact that they get pitches and that's how they're rewarded,
and that's why they're wanted. That's why they have jobs. Now,
like Kirk's pretty good offensive player, Dias I think. Also,

that's the guy you said with the Rockies used to
be with Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Correct, Yeah, both good offensive player.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Good offensive player. So there's there's that part of it also.
So analysts analyze, So that's why a lot of this
stuff is there. They have nothing else to do. There,
they're paid to analyze things, and they come up with
different thoughts or ideas or concepts under the guys of
being something new. But then all of a sudden, because
they're there for that reason. They become lion ice for it,
and all of a sudden it becomes part of the

structure of the game, which I don't always agree with.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
How about pitchers want to you.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
That's big. I'm really big on that. And here's a
good example on that shoe. Martine Maldonado right, right right.
Not an offensive player at all. I think we all
understand that, but all of those Houston Astro's pitchers.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Wanted to throw to him.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
And when they got to the postseason, he was behind
the plate every day knowing that he's hitting ninth, he's
not gonna do much offensively, but the pitchers wanted I'm
glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
That's a big thing.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
And right now, well, Martin Maldonado as rated as one
of the worst framers in all of Major League Baseball.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
How about that depends on who's throwing to you, right,
But I mean your back to your point there. Yes,
the thing as a young catcher coming up that I
felt best about is when pitchers wanted to.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Throw to me, right.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's that was like the supreme compliment, more than when
a manager might say to you, whatever, if a pit
or pitching staff, why don't you behind to play.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
The pitching staff came.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
To you separately, talking or asking you questions about different things,
just right down to what do I look like today?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
They trust your judgment, what are you what are you
saying right now? Something's not right, and.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
During the course of even a bullpen session or during
the course of a game, always able to make suggestions
to get them back.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
To where they had been. I don't know if I
see that as often anyway, I think that catchers.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Are kind of either they don't really know or their
literly of interfering with what maybe the pitching coach might
have to say or analytical people might have to say.
Catchers are out there purely just having the gear on
technically catch right down to the point I mean, the
game can be called for you, or a lot of
it is scripted beforehand. I'm good with that as long
as the catcher is involved in the process of putting

the game planning together and then having some kind of
ability to work it during the game. But to just
constantly just to have to follow a script that's been
provided to you, I'm not into it. Last point technique,
and again this is part of what's being subtracted the
technique of catching. God, I was a convert. I was
a pitcher in a shortstop in high school. Go to

Lafayat and I have norm gig On as my coach.
Or gig played for the Cubs briefly in the big
leagues for a while. Norma went to Kobe College in
Maine and the guy was really a really good coach.
He converted me, and so he converts me to catcher
technically speaking, because I didn't know anything. I mean the
first game I caught, I volunteered to catch in Sarasota

against the Kansas City Royals Academy because I wanted to
hit Richie Carter threw a ball right by me, hit
the umpire right in the face mask because I was
that in a fishing So technique you have to learn technique.
And by the time I got the pro ball with
Jack Kye, Larry Hymes, Del crandall these are all my
Chris Kennis are these are my catching instructors. Anything they
told me, it'd already been told me by gig. So

I mean, it was all about technique, maybe to the point,
maybe a little bit over rods sometimes needed to be
reduced a little bit. But nevertheless was about technique everything,
even when you played catch on the line. If you're
playing if I'm playing catch with Tom Berducci and I'm
standing on the third baseline and the coach walking up
and down behind you as a catcher, if you don't
get the baldy of your glove properly and get to

the right grip and get it out with a straight line.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
You heard about it technique. I just don't know it.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
I don't know how important technique is considered anymore or
how much it's really sought after, because it really comes
down technique has been reduced to one item, and that
is to receive a strike, frame a ball, whatever you
want to call it. Because even technique and throw when
you seek, some teams don't even throw anybody out because
again it's not considered important. It's going to be considered

important again, I think at some point, but right now
it is really taking a back seat to framing or
pulling pitches.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I think throwing is definitely coming back now since
last year they relaxed rules in terms of the pickoffs
the first base. The larger bases, we do see more
stolen bases, So I think emphasis on throwing is coming back.
I would argue there is an emphasis on technique. You
can argue that you don't like the technique, you know,
the one knee thing.

Speaker 4 (13:34):

Speaker 1 (13:35):
I've talked with a lot of catching instructors about this.
They're convinced that the rate of block balls, especially with
the run around third base, is no worse, and it's
probably actually better catchers.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
On one knee. And I don't doubt that, Joe.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
But I think the problem is that not everybody does
it well, especially the bigger guys. I think it's very hard.
You can get stuck behind the plate there if the
ball is to the side, not on your knee side,
but the other side just don't have a lot of
lateral movements. So the athletic guys do it much better

to me than the big guys. And as far as
the framing stats, again, I just have a problem when
people talk about these framing stats like it's something empirical,
it's some kind of evidence that someone's a great catcher
or not.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
And again I love the idea of framing, but I
can tell looking at catchers, as I'm sure you ken, Joe,
who does it well and who does it I mean,
it's one thing where the eye test does work. Jose Travino,
he's a master. He's a magician behind the plate. I
watch him steal more strikes. He's a smaller guy, he
gets low, he's got very soft hands. These things are

obvious to anybody. If you watch him catch one game,
I don't need a stat to tell me he's a
good framer. I can see that. Kyle Hagashioka, same thing.
I mean these guys. Are you watch guys? I'm sure
you do. Joe too, who received the ball? Well, you
don't need a stat to tell you. It's like a
runner who's fast. The idea of feet per second tell

me that Bobby Wood Junior is fast.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
You can see it. It's like that with framing for me.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, and again, to get to the numbers regarding blocking
or not, numbers are the way numbers are manipulated. For me,
I don't even know what the criterion is regarding that
the block as an example, and could the could that
even be a better number or higher number if in
fact the technique was better beyond just one knee?

Speaker 4 (15:26):
I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
See, these these kind of statements are made without really
knowing exactly all the different criterion that are involved in
arriving at this particular point. That's that's my my concern
or problem with numbers. It's always convenient to those that
are putting the numbers together, who knows what they choose
to include. What is a good block or not? Is
it just about a runner scoring and how severe where

the where the balls in the dirt blocks.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
Et cetera. There's there's a there's such a variety.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Of criterion to this and and diversity to this that
I'd really like to see the whole thing to really
be convinced of it. I like an athletic position, I
like an agile position, and I think you could achieve both.
I think you could be in a more functionally good
mobile position as a receiver catcher and still be able
to provide with everybody's looking for receiving the ball down outside,

et cetera. Again, it's just being grated in one way
right now. Whereas you can't go back to Jerry Grody,
and I'm going to say Jerry Gordy because he was
the best. He was like even during Munson and Bench
and all those dudes, Jerry Goody was my favorite catcher,
And I'll tell you why quickly. I think he might
have been right around I don't know, five ten, five eleven.

He was never more than five five or five four
when he caught. The guy was always in a crouch.
It was impossible to get a ball by him. You
talk about throwing lou Brock, He threw out Brock continually.
So these are the kind of things that I always
was glommed on tuning. So whenever I hear things about again,
like you referenced empirical evidence, I always want to know

who's doing the evaluating. What are the criterion Let me
see and then And I'm not a doubting Thomas necessarily,
but maybe I am.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
I just got it. I need more evidence.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I'm glad you brought up Jerry Grody because he did
set a great target, receive the ball so well. He
seemed to make himself smaller like a turtle back there.

Speaker 4 (17:18):

Speaker 1 (17:18):
My favorite Jerry Grody story, And you know he was
an ornery guy, right, yep. My favorite story is out
third out of the inning, on a strikeout, he would
roll the ball to the opposite side of the mound whatever,
so the opposing pitcher the opposite dugoutside. That's where he
would roll the ball, so the pitcher had to walk
a few more steps to pick up the ball.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
How about that, I saw it.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
I remember that absolutely. I loved them. I thought he
was the best.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
And again, whenever I instructed catchers, I would always ask
them to stand there and tell me how tall they were,
and then I wanted them to be at least six
to eight inches shorter than that as there never never
get to your full height, always being somewhat of a crouch,
because your whole job is about being around the ground.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Bottom line here is if Wilson could treires Is out
ten weeks with a broken arm because the Cardinals wanted
him to improve his framing numbers, shame on the Cardinals.
I mean, your job, number one, any kind of discipline
here in baseball and technique, is to keep your guys healthy.
You can't help a team if you're on the il.
So if they're chasing what to me is not a

legit number. Framing, Yeah, the idea of framing is legit,
but if you're chasing a number that to me is
not legit. Shame on the Cardinals, and I hope that
wasn't the case.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well that this goes back to when Willie was with
me with the Cubbies. That's where it all began. And
I mean, I start hearing about this and then it's
part of it. Is a guy that catcher here's it
often enough, he's going to get worse at what he's
doing before he ever gets better. So that was a
big thing. Brought in a catching guru to come on
in and help him learn how to frame better. Or
in Cincinnati, all of a sudden, this dude shows up
to help Wilson learn how to frame better. And I felt,

you know, I really I was kind of offended by
that actually, And from that moment on, it's become legend
that Wilson's bad. And like you say, said, the numbers
vacillate so greatly on an annual basis between being like,
was it real Mudo number one and then number last
a couple of years ago in real Mudo.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, he's actually now blowout supposedly.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I promise you every pitcher in the world wants to
tow to back and every manager wants to write his
name on a lineup card. These are the kind of
things that, again don't pass the eyeball test. For me,
don't pass the Baseball common sense tests for me. And
these are the kind of things that again, we're we're
permitting youngsters to come into our game with degrees and
telling us what to do and how to do it.

And I find that really offensive. And I do because
for so many years the game was passed on to
me by people that were really lifers, really good at
what they did, taught the game properly, And now I don't.
I don't consider this progress. I'm sorry the progressive nature
of it. Progress is not always a positive. It's a

word that normally indicates something's better, but it's not necessari
it's not always necessarily true.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Now that I've got your motor warmed up, Joe Madden,
we're going to talk about a couple of other former
players of yours, Craig Kimbrel and Chris Bryant. Okay, well,
we will do that right after this Welcome Back to

the Book of Joe podcasts. And we started talking about
Wilson Catreras, and now we're onto a couple of other
former Cubs players for Joe Madden. Let's start with Craig Kimbrell,
who's closing job in Baltimore is let's call it tenuous
at this point, Joe. You know, as a manager, you
hate to have someone behind your closer. Normally, when your

closer comes into the game, your job as a manager
is over. It's sit back, relaxed, see how the rest
of the game plays out. Right now, Brandon Hyde has
to have somebody behind Craig Kimberl is actually taken him
out of the games and the ninth inning a couple
of times here in the last couple of weeks. It's
an issue for the Orioles. You know, listen, Craig Kimberl's
going to the Hall of Fame. He still has swing

and miss stuff. Batters are hitting one ninety three against him,
and he's striking out thirty six percent of the batters
he faces. Sounds good, right, but there's problems here with
Craig Kimberrel. And I'm not sure if you saw this
in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
When you had him.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
I know he had a rough year with you in nineteen.
But he's just walking too many guys. He's not throwing
enough strikes thirteen percent, walk rate just sixty percent, strikes,
only fifty one percent first pitch strikes and he's a
two pitch guy, and the fastball, I'm sorry, the velocity
is just not the same in the big leagues. There's
a big difference between ninety seven and ninety four ninety five.

So for me, this is an issue that is going
to be ongoing. Joe for the Baltimore Orioles and Brandon Hyde,
I think they need to resolve it. I think they
need to get another back end bullpen armed to close games.
I'm not saying Craig Kimberl can't do it, but I
think the reliability right now just is not there for
a team that, let's face it, is trying not to
get to the postseason, but to win the World Series.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, it's a tough one. When you have to get
somebody hot the moment your guy gets up, that's never
obviously a good thing. I don't see anything wrong with
moving him back somewhere earlier in the game, and only
saying that because I do think he'll get hot.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
At some point this year. I do think he can't.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
He tends to be streaky, and he's at that point
in his career that he's not necessarily just a guy anymore.
Even though he might be listed as one there. So
I think for me, a better way would get him
into a lesser role, maybe seventh any and permit him
to pitch and pitch through some mistakes possibly and get
on some kind of again a role. And oftentimes a

closer might make the comment or people might think that, Okay,
it's not as adrenaline rich that part of the game,
and because of that, you're not going to see the
same kind of ability out of this guy, which is
could be true. But if you're fighting for your baseball
life and you want to remain in the game and
you still feel like you have something.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Left, you can accept it.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
But I I think he can all right now, I'd
be very concerned about that.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
If I'm the Orioles.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
I don't even know who all their other options are.
If there's somebody in house that're already a little bit better.
It's like, do you much prefer when it's the eighth
inning with lead because you'll love this so and so
coming in the game, and you're not so happy when
it's the ninth inning because because your guy's coming in
and that happens, that's happened in the past. I've been
involved in that myself, so I would back him off,

put him in a spot where he gets the pixe
a bit more off and let him know that find it,
and then put him back because he is he's.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Propensity to give up the home run too.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
The fastball flattens out up in his own and it
doesn't ride like it had and it gets it gets smoked,
break the ball is outstanding, but the command of it's not.
It's all these things are issues. Absolutely, it's it's not
not pounded. I love the guy, it's just it's just fact.
So you got to you got to do something to
get him back to being more consistent. And when he
when his confidence gets to the point where he's kind

of on a roll again, then throw them back in
there because he'll get hot. He'll stay hot for a while,
but for right now, it's tough, man, And when you
gotta warm somebody up immediately, not good.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, you know, I totally agree with you that he
does tend to be streaky, and I'm sure he has
a good run in him. As I said, you know,
you look at the batting average against in the strikeout rate,
that tells you his stuff is still there. My issue
with kimber Will has always been. If he does not
land his breaking ball for a strike, he's in trouble
because you can set your eyes at the top of
the zone for his fastball, and you're right. Sometimes it

flattens out. If it's not high enough, it's very hittable.
And again, losing one or two miles an hour. That's
a big difference in the major leagues. And the other
thing I don't like. I don't like closers who who
first of all, for me, for a closer, job one
and two is don't allow home runs and don't walk anybody.
Most closers are not giving up a bunch of hits,
let's face it, So keep the ball in the ballpark

and don't start a rally with a walk. And if
Kimberle walks somebody, it's a double. He does not hold runners.
Last two years base Steelers are fifteen sixteen. That scares
me as well. So I understand what you're saying here, Joe,
that he's going he's a streaky player. But the problem is,
I'm not sure that's going to go away if he
has a nice little run. I think the issues here

are going to be sustainable for the Orioles. That's why
I think to sit here and think he's going to
go on a hot streak and everything solved, I would
not go that way. If I'm the Baltimore Orioles, I've
got a core of young position players. I can trade
from that surplus and go get myself a big arm.
And you know what, having two big arms back end
of the game is great because I don't know that

Jennier Cano or Danny Coulomb, who have closed for Brandon
Hyde so far this year, I don't think they're long
term answers. I don't think that he wants to close
games in the postseason with them. So if I've got
another arm with Kimberrel, sign me up for that.

Speaker 4 (25:51):

Speaker 3 (25:51):
I didn't want to insinuate that I thought it was
going to get well just because we tried a different tact.
I agree with you. It's a hard bet right now.
It's not like he's, you know, back in his prime.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Things have changed a little bit.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
You're right about the break upon. Furthermore, you're absolutely right about.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
Time to the plate.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
I mean, I don't understand why people just don't run
all the time. If you hold back for a certain count,
I don't get it, because you can't even pitch out
with him, not that anybody does anymore, but when a
guy doesn't throw strikes, you're really even more reticent to
pitch out under those circumstances. So yeah, it doesn't ensure anything.
I'm just suggesting that I would do something like that
to see if it would be beneficial. But in the meantime, man, when,

like I said, when you're bringing your ninth any guy
and you like that less than your eighth any guy,
it's not a good thing.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Now, Chris Bryant, and I really want to get your
take on Chris, because I like Chris a lot. It
looked like when his first few years in the major
leagues he had the world on a string. Right, Rookie
of the Year, MVP World Series champion, gets on the
free agent market after not signing extension offers from the Cubs,
which is fine, it's his opportunity to really get that
killer contract. Then he got it from the Colorado Rockies

one hundred and eighty two million dollars. But Chris is
not performed well to say, you know, to be kind,
his ops plus is ninety. That means he's ten percent
worse than the average major league player. And more than that,
he has missed sixty three percent of Colorado's games since
he signed because of injuries. And he's got a back
ailment now he's on the IL, he's got a.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Disc issue, he's got arthritis.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
There's some longer term issues here for Chris Brant as well,
who's now what thirty two years old, And he did
an interview recently in which he talked about he thinks
his skills are still there and it really eats him
up that he's not able to be out there playing
for the Rockies because he has gotten a lot of
negative feedback from the fans. They boo him from time
to time when he's out there. Joe, you know this
guy well, I mean, he's a real sweetheart. But where

do you think his head is at after signing that
deal and missing so many games with the Rockies and
not being the player we all think he can be.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
First of all, he is a sweetheart.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
I like this man a lot. I like his family
a lot. He had a great relationship. Talked to him
often with the Cubbies, just trying to keep him thinking
right way. And that's one number two. He's a very
good athlete. He's a very good baseball player. He understands
the game, and he plays the game right and well.
He's a really good base runner, very good base runner.

He's got a fine arm. He could play multiple positions,
he could steal bases. He does a lot of things
really really well on a baseball field, really well. Big body,
like he's saying, and always always ran hard to first base. God,
he ran hard to first base, and I so respected
him and the guy played. He would turn his anchor

once in a while. He might miss like a day.
At that point, he never missed this kind of time.
He would miss a moment, but not time. The big
thing for me, quite frankly, is his hitting stroke is
batting style. I think that's what's the biggest problem. The
way he folds over and reaches out and just hits
a lot of weak ground balls on the pull side.

I don't even know what his exit velocities are these days,
or how often he's hit the ball hard recently or
in the past. That's the one thing I've always wanted
to would like to see that, And I know it's
not easy when you're thirty two to try something differently,
but the idea of him changing his stroke just.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
A little bit and get back in the right center.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Because when you talk to THEO, one of the most
attractive parts about signing him out of San Diego was
the fact that he drove the Opo gap. When he
was in the minor leagues, he drove the Opo gap,
and with us he did. But God, he started like
you know, he pummeled the ball the left center. He
just pummeled it everywhere. I just think that is the
breaking down way. Bends over, like I say, folds and

just reaches out and hits ground balls of the pull side.
He runs well, and he's beating him out and sometimes
that has kept him solvent so as he comes back
keeping everything else the same, I mean everything, because he's
a really good baseball player and he's a great teammate.
If he could just do something within his batting style,
batting stance to maintain his posture longer and mentally get

back into the other gap, to me, I'd find that interesting,
just like I'm suggested with Kimberle something differently, I would
do that with KB because he's well, I mean, and
again I don't know how well he is or how
bad he's hurting, but he is a really good baseball player.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, it reminds me. I'm glad you mentioned that he's
such a good base runner. When we sat down and
rewatched Game seven of the twenty sixteen World Series with
Terry Francona, there's Chris Brian at six foot six scoring
from first base on a single and scoring easily and
just cutting the corners and just flying. So athleticism is
off the charts, especially for someone that tall. You know, Joe,

you mentioned exit velocity, which is interesting. Now, it's probably
too small of a sample this year because he hasn't
played very much, but he was at eighty nine point three,
which is pretty good. Actually, his career high exit velocity
average active velosity his rookie year eighty nine point seven.
He's never been like a huge exit vlow guy. Eighty

nine to seven is good, it's not great. In the
last couple of years when he has been on the
field for the Rockies, it's been down around eighty five.
So there, there's probably something to what you're saying here,
because he's got the levers, he's got the strength, but
he does not smash the ball the way you think
he should, especially in the last couple of years, he

lose his posture.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
That's what I think I mean. I'd love to see
him come back and keep his butt underneath him. He
sets up that way. The other thing he and I
used to talk about. He'd start waving that bat over
on his shoulder a lot before the pitch would come,
and then all of a sudden he'd get it up
to a higher position than he would go from there,
and I thought he'd be too late. And I used
to just say quiet, quiet on the set. I liked

when he was quiet, not a whole lot of movement,
because then from that point then he could be I thought.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
He was more on time.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
That was my perception of him. So it's posture and
being quiet. If he could have two things, and if
his head would stay in right centered, I think that'd
be a great place to start as he comes back.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
I want to see him do great.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
I like him that much, like his family that much,
and he is. He's an outstanding baseball player. And what
everybody doesn't like is that his offense has been so tough.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
That's it, nothing else.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
He plays the game hard man, he plays the hit
game hard, and as a manager, he got in love
and appreciate that his whole game is acceptable, more than
acceptable when he's hitting, and he's not hitting right now,
and that's why you're hearing all the noise.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
So it sounds to me, Joe, like you believe he's
correct and saying that skills are still there and you
know he's going to get back to an elite level.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I mean at thirty two, that's still relatively young. Know
what he's saying.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
He's done at this point, but the injuries do start
to mount, they take some things away. You've been around
enough veteran players to know, like the great ones you
never count out right, I mean injuries, they can overcome
swing changes, the good ones, the great ones will make them.
So it sounds to me like you believe that there's
more of the tank here for Chris Bryant that if

you're a Rocky fan, you're thinking, well, this contract is
a total waste. It sounds like what you're saying is
the book's not closed to here on Chris Bryant.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, I had a really good baseball player and a
really good human being. You did, You did a great
job with that. What's going on right now is his
offense has steadily declined, and like I can't be more
specific regarding what I what I think, and that's a
better posture. Get up more upright and get in that
other other gap first and just drive drive the ball.
I could VP Roberto Clemen. He'd come to spring training

right back in the day. Got this from some reliable sources.
The first two weeks of spring training, I think it
was two weeks. He would never hit a ball on
the pull side of second base, never pulled pull the ball.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
He'd everything be second.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Base with the first base side for the first two
weeks to really make sure that this this swing was
grooved in that in that position, in that way, and
then it would just then he'd become Roberto and you know,
line the line whatever, Tony Gwinn from the right side,
wherever you want to call him. But it's got to
be specific, and it's got to got to believe in
it too.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
And this is my opinion, my suggestion.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I'm not I'm not in charge of I'm not the
hitting coach. I'm I don't have all the information the data.
I'm just talking observationally, and what I saw while I
was with him, I'd love to see it, because the
man is a good baseball player.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
He's a really good baseball player.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and he should be made for that ballpark as well. Yes,
it's a great place for anybody to hit. But you know, Chris,
as you mentioned, I always thought the same way. When
he's going right, he's hitting bullets at the right center,
and he can run all day with that big outfield
out there, so that should help him.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Plus he plays all the positions. I mean, you know,
you know, I liked him in the outfield. I think
he likes the outfield better than the infield. But he
could play third or first base, no doubt. And then again,
what is your expectation with that. He learned how to
throw better, he learned how to come in on slow
rollers better. He did a lot of things. But he's
a really good athlete. So those that are condemning him, stop.

This guy is a really good baseball player.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
His bat, his.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Offense, is his style, his his mechanics. This is a
time where technique and mechanics, to me, really are more
important than the mental mechanics. It's the physical mechanics. And
once he gets the physical mechanics back in order, then
it's then it really the mental mechanics are going to
be what's going to control the success or not. I
want to see him, man, I want to see him
back in an All Star game. I want to see

him help lead the Rockies. I mean Buddy Blacksner too.
PEPPI and I go way back.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
I'm attached to these guys. I want to see them
do well and a lot of it. KB coming back
as KB could be a big difference maker for them.

Speaker 4 (35:24):

Speaker 1 (35:24):
By the way, reminded me of a trivia question I
have for you, Joe who hit the most home runs
in the major leagues from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Oh, Chris Bryant, No, it's another Chris.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
Oh with an H.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Chris Davis.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Oh, god ya from the Oakland Athletics. Yes, Highland bring
it up, because, yes, it's another Chris. But he, I
guess formally or informally announced his retirement. I mean, he
hasn't played for a couple of years, but becomes official
based on his his word.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
This is interesting.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
First of all, he's best known because in twenty fifteen
he hit two forty seven. In sixteen, he hit two
forty seven. In twenty seventeen, he hit two forty seven.
In twenty eighteen, he hit two forty seven. Come on,
and his career batting average.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
No, it's two forty two. But you'll love this.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
He's going to retire and start a new career as
an auto mechanic.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
How great is that.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
The name of the place will be to forty seven
Auto rights. He said he lives in Longbeach Cherry, right,
He's from that area out there, is it?

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah? I mean he was a great poll hitter. I
mean he was a I could see him in the box.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
That quiet set up, the lower hands and then the
really quick bat speed. He could turn around anything. There
was definitely swinging this in there. But yeah, just a strong,
powerful hitter.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
A lot of motorheads out that part of the country. Man,
it's great spot to.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Be into the auto industry stuff. I love it.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, which, by the way, is a perfect segue to
our next topic here.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
We teased it at the top.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
The Americans Dan, what has happened to them? Joe and
I will dive into that right after this on the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
I don't know if you saw this, but the Malibu
is dead. The Chevy Malibu, which was the first year
Minel year was nineteen sixty four, and it lasted until
eighty three.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
They killed it, then they brought it back.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
They brought it back in nineteen ninety seven, and they
just decided Chevy decided that's it. No more Malibu. What's
interesting about this The Malibu was Chevy's third most sold
vehicle last year. Really, Silverado was number one, The Equinox
was number two. The Malibu, which went for about twenty

five grand, which is cheap in today's world. They sold
one hundred and thirty thousand of those, and now it's gone.
So they're saying, why is it gone? Well, as I mentioned,
the Silverado number one, Equinox number two, nobody wants a
sedan anymore, Joe. The country has gone crazy for SUVs
and pickup trucks, and this sedan is literally dead. Dodge

and Chrysler got rid of sedans in twenty sixteen. Ford
got rid of sedans in twenty eighteen, and now GM
does not sell a sedan in the United States of America.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
How about that?

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I got a seventy two Malibu my garage right behind me,
right now underneath me. Actually, my seventy two convertible Malibu.
Shabelle is sitting downstairs and absolutely love it.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
What I'd like. I don't know why we I what
do I know?

Speaker 3 (38:53):
But I mean, the Dodge has done such a great job.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Bringing back the Challenger and the Charger.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
You know, it's muscle cars with like a really not
necessarily the Charge as much as the Challenger, the Hellcat
and the Demon looking like the retro car itself. I
love to see an SS Chevelle brought back with this
similar a modern day version of that particular style.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
But then again, nobody wants. I guess if they bring
it back as electric, somebody might like it.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Although electric cars fortunately are not being that there's a
lot of surplus with those right now.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
I like my Challenger Man and it can go. I
missed out. I got that.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
I got a station Wagon. I have my seventy nine Lincoln.
I have a fifty six bel Air that's outstanding. All
these cars run wonderfully and great. It's about utility obviously, right,
just being able to throw stuff in groceries whatever. How
about my station wagon. There's nothing better than that station wagon.
I just drove it up from Florida, totally packed, eighty
five Ozenbiel custom cruiser. It's an eighty eight. It's called

an OS eighty eight, and that thing still runs strong
at sixty five thousand miles from nineteen eighty five. So
I'm the wrong guy to talk to you about this
stuff because I like driving. I like driving. I like
driving different vehicles. I'm like an old airline airplane pilot
that likes to fly different airplanes in order.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
To get the field and whatever, every different one. So
it's sad. It's sad.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I would like that, I said, if they want to
bring it back, I'd like to see a.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
More retro look to these things.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Maybe put an engine in that really you could hear
it a little bit and feel it.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
I don't like driving anything that I can hear my engine.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Well, Joe, I think you hit on something.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think your seventy two Malibu, if I remember correctly,
had some style to it. Look what's happened to the
modern iteration of the Malibu. The one's built you know
since nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
They're boring.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
Let's face it, unrecognizable.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
That's your definition of boring. And they wonder why the
Sedana is extinct. What happens if you actually design something
with some flair and some style, maybe it would sell.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Now I get it.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
People, it's like a race on the road to get
a bigger vehicle than the guy next to you. Like
everybody's worried about safety and what happens if I'm a
collision and there's so many SUVs out there, you feel
like you're essentially under armed if you go to a sedan, right,
because now you're lower than them. Saedans five years ago
accounted for about forty nine percent of SUVs, forty nine

percent SUVs. Last year it was fifty six percent, and
it keeps going up. So the majority of people want SUVs.
It's amazing to me that the sedan, the American sedan,
which used to be the epitome of style and flair,
is extinct.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Now it's utility, and the suv is the latter day
station wagon.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
There's no question. I mean, if you drove my station wagon.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
First of all, it's very comfortable and it drives great,
but there's you could throw stuff everywhere. I put more stuff,
This is no I put more stuff in my wagon
driving back from Tampa back here a couple of weeks
ago than I could in my Tahoe. I have a
twenty twelve Tahoe that had loaded to the gills. I
mean I look like one of the clampets coming back
up because I drove both back up separately.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
But the wagon.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
I felt I could put a lot more stuff in
my wagon, lower but longer, and there's not all this
interruption because the seat goes down so perfectly flat of
the back seat. So it's all about utility.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Right, And I do like everybody, so I like sitting up.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
High, not denying. Listen, I love it too, I dig it.
I got a van. I got a seventy six Dodge
Van that I like to sit up tall with that too.
I like sitting up hard. That's why I like to
drive ourb's. I think that's really at the crux of
it all. But at the end of the day, man,
you drive that Challenger down there, you drive that Hellcat. Wow,
what a piece of engineering that is not only the

engine and the car, so the way it drives, the
weight handles, the brakes on that are incredible, the sound
systems outstanding. It's a very comfortable little cockpit that you're
sitting in.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
So what do you want? What do you want? Do
you want this, Like.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
You're saying everybody wants the same all the time. I
really prefer difference different.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I guess it's the joy of driving.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
It is.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
It is disappearing because you know, you may sit up
high in your suv, but you ain't hugging a curve
in that suv.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
How about a six speed? How about my six speed?
I mean it's the other part of it.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Nobody drives the standard transmission anymore.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
I I mean, my Chevelle's got a six to tremics
six speed, and so does my challenge as a six
speed Tremic transmission. Nothing more fun to taking that through
the pace. Now, it's not good in bumper to bumper traffic.
When I drive the Hellcat far and you get into
a big city, you get on a freeway that's bumper
to bumper la whatever.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Not fun, I agree, not fun.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
But just to purely go out there and drive that sucker, man,
when you got to hit it, when you need that
speed coming on a freeway, whatever, entrance ramp. So much fun.
You get challenged sometimes. I took it across after the
All Star Game in twenty seventeen in Miami. Was going
to Naples after that to spend the All Star break

and going over Alligator Alley. I stee one time, I've
hit it really good and there was still a lot
of pedal left. I'm going like one hundred and twenty
five miles an hour just to test it. And I
didn't feel comfortable that night, those little little bridges that
you go over, those little overpast things. I thought it
was going to go airborne at some point, but got it.
It just drove so well. It's it's fun. Okay, it's

fun people, It's fun to have fun. Nobody wants to
have fun anymore.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
It's fun to This says it all.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
At the factory where the Malibu was made, Chevy is
now going to be building the next generation of its Bolt,
the electric vehicle, oh god, and the Cadillac XT four suv,
which sounds like a locker combination. But I mean again,
it's a huge vehicle. It's an suv. So you got electric,
you've got suv. You've got nothing in the middle, you

got nothing with flair. And by the way, Joe I
would happily buy an electric car if someone could just
design a good looking one.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I mean, come on, this was.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
The chance to like it just gets to a clean slate,
right shake, the edge just gets start over, you know,
don't just throw like weird headlights on it and tell
me and some blue paint and say, oh, that's an
e car designed something with some style.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Please, will you?

Speaker 3 (45:09):
That's a socialist car. I mean, everybody wants to look
the same. It's part we talked about. It's in the book.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Same color.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
It's either going to be black, white, or gray. More
than likely it's going to look exactly the same. I
tested myself. I'll be sitting somewhere, maybe I don't know
a couple of blocks or say a block away from
an intersection, and I'm trying to discus what is that.
I mean, you know, back in the day, as we
were driving somewhere with your parents, you could count Ford

in chevyes all day, right, I can't tell the difference.
I don't know Ford from a Chevy, from a Mazita
from whatever from a distance anymore combination. Then there's no
two tone cars. You're never going to see that again.
It's so cool. I got a couple of those things.
They're outstanding.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
When it's two.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
Toned like that. Everybody wants the same. Everybody wants to
be the same. They're always waiting months in advance for
their vehicle that's going to look like their neighbors.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
I don't get it, by the way, you're talking to
an Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser guy. Growing up, family pile into
that thing going down to the Jersey Shore, coming back
with half the sand of the beach in the car,
and that thing was great. You get like you said,
you can get everything in there. And it was a
treat to ride in the far back. We called it
the way back. That third row of seats back there,

facing out the back window. We used to fight to
sit in that seat.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Mine's got it. My old's got one of those seats.
It's outstanding. When my grandkids come into town, I'll drive
them around in that facing backwards.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
I hope nobody gets upset with me for that. But
it's fun, man. I like to have fun. I like
people have fun.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Sometimes I think we take ourselves and everything else a
little bit too seriously, a lot too seriously. It's part
of my concern with a lot of different things today.
We just we watch what we say and how we
say it so often that nobody could be irreverent and
have fun anymore.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
And I like it. I kind of dig it.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
My kids and my grandkids love it when they come
back here and mess with this kind of stuff. Talking
about being irresponsible, ever, I'm just talking about having a
little fun.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Well, certainly if they look in your garage, they'll understand
there's there's more to life than just homogenize looks and
everybody being the same. It's the diversity of your vehicles
speaks to uh. I think they where the human the
human spirit lies, right, it's in the differences. It's whether
you like it or not, you honor the differences in

people and in cars.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Agreed, It's uh, you know, there's there is we We
are all a diverse and my garage is absolutely diverse.
But at the end of the day, man, I'm a
I know I'm a great teammate. I'm there for everybody
else and I think most of us are that way too.
So just include include a little automotive diversity with your
life if you could, If you can, it's it's really

a lot of fun to drive different things. And the
one I didn't even include to this point was my
fifty nine El Camino. Oh that that is like, I
drive that down the street. Unbelievable, like all these different
vehicles have. That is the one that elicits the most
commentary is the It's white with the red trim on it.

I got some big old meg wheels on it with
a low profile tires. Great sound system, I don't mean
good great sound system. It's a three point fifty runs wonderfully.
But that one is probably out of all of them,
the fifty nine that was the first year they made
the El Camino, that that one is the biggest head
turner of all.

Speaker 2 (48:32):

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Well, I can't wait to see how you bring us
to the clothes here today, Joe Madden, because you're always
on point with your choices of words of wisdom, and
I don't know how you top this one today, but
go ahead, I know you will.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Well, you know that this ties into what we're talking
about all day. You're talking about, whether it's Kimberrel or
you're talking about KB or you're talking about catching whatever
and analytics and how this is all incorporated. But in
some way, I think Jack Welch, I've always been a
big fan of his. This isn't the one for the
but he's the guy that said change before you have to,
and I'm absolutely That's that's why I think sometimes people

may get confused with me. I love change, I love
doing things different things. I love progress, I love I
love new things and that are going to work and
make stuff better, whether it's in baseball in my general life.
I love that about him, CEO of GE. But also
I got this today and again, this is part of
what we're just talking about right now. Good coaches provide

a truly important service. They tell you the truth when
no one else will so, right, I mean, I mean,
I think, well, that's the part of what's going on today.
Nobody wants to tell anybody else.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
What the truth is.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Everybody's always acquiescing or concern. I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings,
you know, they so they give it to you A
little water down. One of my cars starts talking about
the chavelle on the back left quarter panel. There it
says bab aloo and big bold letters bab Aloo on
the chevelle. Babaloo is Bob clear from the Book of Joe.

He was my mentor, Baba Loo. If I've ever met
a truth teller in my whole life, it was Bob.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
A Loo.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
He told me when I stunk, He told me when
I was doing things wrong. Of course, he told me
when I was doing things good too, But if something
was not right, he didn't hesitate to tell me, and
he'd tell me straight up, and it wasn't pussy footing around.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
He'd grab me.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Immediately and let me know that in his perception, what
I was doing was not very good. And I loved
him for that. My God, my best coaches I could
start naming. I don't know ten guys, all truth tellers, man,
all truth tellers. They they only get you. They don't
let you get away with anything. They call bs on

you immediately. And those are the guys I want to
be around. So Bob a Loo to all the truth tellers. Jack,
mister Welch again about the truth tellers. That's if you
get one of those around you, folks, hold on to
him or her one of the most valuable people in
your lives.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Well, I hope that's still true, because I'm sure you
probably saw it in your arc of managing the big
leagues that the younger player today doesn't necessarily always want
to hear the truth because the truth hurts a lot
of times and I know a lot of it comes
down to relationships where you feel like you've got enough
of a relationship where you can be a truth teller
to someone. But from what I've seen, there's a lot

of walking on eggshells around players. And you know, it's
just a different generation because they haven't been told the truth.
Growing up, everything is great, everybody gets a trophy. And
that's why I think coaching and managing is probably harder
than it's ever been. I'd like to believe, and I
do believe that you're right that there's always a place
for the truth tellers.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Yeah, and well all those whatever the perceived problems are,
you're absolutely correct. We're permitting it. I mean, and we are.
I mean, who's the grown up in a room, who's
the parent in a room? We need more parents in
the room. We need more grownups. I used to say
that often. We need more grown ups. I need as
a manager, we need it. More grown ups in the clubhouse,
people that aren't so thin skinned, people that do take accountability,

people that do receive constructive criticism.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Well that's how you get better.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
And without that, you know you could get you could
get pretty good based on how talented you are, but
to get to that final goal and grabbing that that
actually that World series ring not easy to do without
truth tellers involved. Absolutely hundred percent believe that. I'll always
defend that.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
I don't think Jack Welch could have said it any better.
We need more grown ups, that's right.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
It's more grown ups in the room.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Man used to drive me nuts, and I would say that.
I would say that to the coaching staff. I would
say to the front office, we need more grown ups
in our room.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Well said, Joe, nice job, We'll see you next time.
By the Book of Joe, your two brothers.

Speaker 3 (52:49):

Speaker 1 (52:58):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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