February 14, 2023 • 48 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast welcomes Fmr PGA Tour golfer and now Instructor Brett Lederer to the show. Host Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon discuss Brett's background and how the game has changed over the years. Brett explains the work habits of the top golfers and how that 1% prepare for tournaments. We look at the technology being added to golf and how players use it differently. After exploring Brett's family history in baseball, Tom wants to know how Joe's game is doing and Joe reveals what he's currently working on with his clubs. We wrap up with a 'Reading from The Book of Joe' with Brett picking page 84, representing the year he was born.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition
of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci
and my good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, how you doing today?
I am well, Tom, thank you very much, and I'm
really excited about this morning's guest. You really tried to
(00:26):
help me a couple of days ago. Actually you did
a lot of good stuff from me, just a matter
of me taking it to the actual golf course. But
this guy is this guy is fantastic. All the boys
back there in Long Beach love him, and we're gonna
talk about that in a moment. But Brett really appreciate
it coming on this morning, and we have a busy schedule.
It's eight o'clock in the morning there in Long Beach areas,
(00:46):
so we really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for
having me, got it. So this is sort of the
sweet spot for Joe and probably for me to you
talk about the intersection of golf baseball. Yeah, we'll get
into that too, and instruction right teaching. This is really
cool to have on Brett Letterer. He is at the
(01:06):
Virginia Country Club in Long Beach where he works with
Jimmy Mulligan, the CEO there, and Jamie coaches Nellie and
Desca Corda, Patrick Cantley. Of course you've heard of them.
He's also a veteran of what twelve years playing the tours,
Brett Um, so he's got a lot of playing experience
as well. So welcome to the podcast, Brett. And uh,
let's get right into it, because I'm always curious about
(01:29):
how guys get into what they do. So obviously you
start out with some dreams as being a being on
the PGA tour as a player. Give me the idea
of your entree into the instruction side of things. Yeah,
I always kind of had a niche for coaching, and
um when I got done A graduated from lom Me
Stay in two thousand and seven and then played for
twelve years kind of on the corn Ferry Tour and
(01:50):
uh PGA Tour of Canada. And even when I was playing,
I kind of you know, we're all golf nerds out there,
and you know, you're on the road so much, and
I always enjoy just kind of hanging out on the
range and UM ended up kind of helping out my
buddies on the range during the tournaments when I was playing,
and I kind of knew if if finally get on
the PGA Tour and have a great career like the
(02:11):
best players in the world, that um I wanted to coach.
I've just always kind of enjoyed the golf swing and
and there's so much into the coaching part of it,
and it's it's interesting to me and um now I've
been coaching at Virginia for U a little over four
years now, and so far, so good. I'm loving it.
You sta something right there. I mean, it's interesting because
(02:32):
you played that long, whether it's corn Ferry or up
in Canada. What do you think is the one thing
that possibly held you back? Because it sounds like you
are a good self evaluator and sometimes people have a
very difficult time with that. So what was the component
of your game that you thought was lacking? Yeah, I
always kind of think about it, and I kind of
you know, it's one of those things like I wish
(02:52):
I knew then what I knew now kind of thing,
especially being around a bunch of the best players in
the world, excuse me, and watching what they're doing now,
I'd say My biggest weakness was probably my my distance.
And and when I turned pro in two thousand and
seven to now, the game has changed quite a bit. Um.
Distance wasn't anything like it is now. You know, back
(03:16):
when I turned pro, you know, the trainers and the
physios and all all the speed stuff wasn't where it
is now. And I was kind of a short hitter
back then. So the game over the twelve years I played,
UM changed a lot, and I kind of got left
behind a little bit in the in the distance aspect
of it. That's really interesting, Britt, because you are I
(03:38):
think listed at five nine sixty, so obviously not a
bigger guy. Do you think the game now is is
almost biased against the shorter, smaller player because of technology,
uh and the way the other the bigger guys have
taken over in terms of their length. I do. I mean,
I don't think you have to be a huge guy, Um.
(04:00):
I mean j T and Rory. There there's a lot
of good players hit it hard that aren't big guys, um,
and especially now, a lot of them. Um. You know,
they've got the best trainers in the world, and it's
pretty interesting what they're doing to get more speed and
all the technology with force plates and ground forces and
all the exercises they're doing. Um, it's just gotten to
(04:24):
a crazy level, you know, of of how good the
trainers are and how diligent the players are. So but yeah,
you're you're right it. It's definitely helpful. I think to
be bigger. You know, you've got someone like John wrong
is his thighs probably bigger than my waist, um and
he and he smashes it. So I think definitely size
(04:46):
helps for sure regarding all that. And because I was
with just with him a couple of days ago and
we really had a great time out there. I just
some new things I just got. I was under his
watchful eye. But the thing that I was I was
hitting coach also in the Angels minor league system in
a little bit into big league level two. Um, I'm
always curious because I know what I did as a
(05:07):
hitting coach. Your process the first time you look at
a player, the first time somebody shows up at the
range with you there, well, is there is there a
first spot that you look to, a first part of
the body that you're trying to decipher whether you like
it or not, and then build from there. So what
is what is your process when you see a golfer
for the first time. Yeah, that's a good question. Um,
(05:27):
probably a few minutes chatting with them just to kind
of get to know them and what I'm dealing with,
trying to get them to be a better golfer. And
you know, it's a lot different, um, you know, from
your average member at Virginia Country Club who gets lessons
to a tour player who's trying to play, you know,
for a living. So a lot of times that that's
gonna make a big difference. But as far as once
(05:49):
you kind of get into it, even a bunch of
my guys make fun of me, like they'll go on
the road for a few weeks and come back and
and we spend ten or fifteen minutes just on their
on their set up. So I'm big on like alignment
and posture and the way I look because you know,
if that you know, it's always like now, now the
best players in the world, you know, how how their
(06:10):
coaches with them almost every week, and a lot of
it isn't necessarily like something's wrong, but even when it's
going well, to have eyes on you to make sure
you're kind of staying in the right lane so that
you don't get off a lot of times, like for example,
a right hander might you know, get they're playing and
win over the weeks and the coach isn't there, and
they get aimed a little bit to the right, and
now they're going to compensate for that. They get a
(06:32):
little over it, and you know, you do that for
a few weeks, and then if the coach isn't there,
they get home and everything's kind of off because you
know that the setup or the alignment or the posture
of the ball physician was off first. I'm always that's
always first. So before you go into that, you know,
you gotta be you gotta look right in alignment, right
addressed before you get into anything else. I love that
(06:53):
you don't even mention mechanics right there. I mean, that's
that's really uh. I'm pretty much the same way as
a hitting coach. I always look at the feet, work
my way up, looking results, and work backwards. And you
always wanted to get in a conversation what do you do?
What are you saying? Right? Are you seeing the ball? Balls?
The ball look quick as it looks small? Um, all
those kind of different factors outside of the physical mechanics.
Are always looking for the physical pantasy. How how are
(07:15):
we gonna get fixed my backswing? Um, you know, how
I'm delivering the club to the ball, my finish head position,
all these different things we always want, uh information, We
want this, this, uh these thoughts that make us so
much better. But like you're saying, and you're you're talking
about the posture and set up and and then I'm
talking about position in the batter's box, where your feet,
I mean, all those things that I think we overlook
(07:37):
because we we want to right away get to a
mechanical fix. We always want Mr Good Wrench to show
up and tweak a couple of things with their wrench
and all of a sudden we feel better. But you're
you're really describing the process as far as I can see,
as I did it also as a baseball hooding instructor,
too right. And then pace or temper wherever you want
to call it, I think it's really important as well.
(07:58):
Um and then um, like I've I've enjoyed getting to
talk to you. I remember a couple of years ago
and you can't out and I was kind of picking
your brain and we got to spend a couple hours together,
and you know, I probably worry out with all these questions.
But one of the things that you know, like like
you said, like staying away from mechanics for a little bit. Um.
You know, I asked you, I remember a couple years
ago ago, have you ever told the invited hold the
(08:20):
bat tighter or harder? And he said, no, you told
me that you know, I impact or when they hit
the ball, they're gonna be holding it tight enough, and
stuff like that. Like you know, and when you came
out the other day, you know, the tempo or longer right,
like is it longer um pace wise or is it
longer like actually make a longer backswing um. So a
(08:42):
lot of times you can get the mechanical or the
technical fix with with with a pacing or a lightness thing.
So a lot of times when you you know that
the step gets better and the pace gets better, that
technical thing that's off kind of fixes itself. And and
to be honest, sometimes I think we get lucky and
if something's off and you tell him to slow it
(09:03):
down or make it longer, aim here, move the ball here,
and all of a sudden it falls back into place
and you don't need to get into the technical thing,
which I think ideally is best. Right, Like, the less
information or you getting the player's head, the better. I
can say, Amen to that. I cannot agree more. You know,
(09:26):
it's abouty years ago making a connection here to baseball.
I remember talking to Mark McGuire, who was a really
good golfer himself hit the ball a mile and a
half and he played on in some pro ams. And
I asked him, Mark, what's the difference from and he's
really good, what's the difference between your game and a
professionals game? And he thought the one thing that really
stood out is the ability of the pro to shape
the ball anyway that they wanted. And I'm wondering bread
(09:49):
as you work with you know, the courtas and the
cant Lee's. I mean, you're talking about the one percent
of the golf world. What does that one percent do
that even the good, really good professional golfers are trying
to do. Yeah, that's a good question, um that I
think that the best guys in the world are. It's funny,
(10:11):
like I just heard a thing with Mark Blackburn is
one of the best coaches in the world. He was
like the two thousand and twenty one National PGA teacher
and coach there, and then Jamie Mulligan, who I've been
lucky that have been around for thirty years now. He
was the next year is coaching there. But you know
it's Mark Blackman was talking about Tiger and how good
Tiger was at shaping shots, like like you're talking about
(10:32):
Mark McGuire mentioned, And I think even most PGA Tour
players don't need to do that that much, meaning like,
get really really good at at your best shot. You know,
whether it's a draw or fade or straight ball higher lower,
and you can hit that shot most of the time.
So I think a lot of times even the best
(10:54):
guys in the world get get too hung up and
trying to hit like the perfect shots. So if you
got two twenty to a right pin, these guys are
hitting five iron and you know they depends on the
right and they kind of want to fade it in there,
which sure like Tiger did it and it looks pretty,
but you know, from to twenty, if you hit it
fifteen feet left and make a you know it takes
(11:15):
you three to get in the hole. From there, you're
winning and you're you're picking up shots skating on the
field there. Um, so I think the best guy. I mean,
sure they can shape it right, and like if you're
behind a tree and they move, need to move it
one way or another. They're they're all good enough to
do that. Um, but I think I think it gets
a little overrated, you know, from from further away where
I kind of like to my guys. You know, like
(11:37):
if you're a five iron is a three yard draw
and we got two twenty to the right pin, just
you know, start at ten feet left and hit a
three three yard drawn, you got twenty ft left of
the pin towards the middle of the green. Beautiful stuff
right there. I mean with regarding all this, and we're
strying to stay away from mechanics, but never unless you
have to practice with these with these really good players.
(11:58):
UM say they're in between tournaments and they come see
you at Virginia. Um, how how often? How many days
did they practice? How many days per week do they practice?
And just a dovetail into that question, just curiously, the
day that they do play pre game like batting practice?
How what what is a good batting practice? How long
should it last? How what's the progression you're looking for,
(12:20):
So how many days do you actually practice between tournaments?
And then actually the day of a tournament, what does
your batting practice look like? Yeah, so like say, you know,
i'd say three in a row somewhat normal for a
tour player. So they go on the road for three
in a row, and then they'll you know, so it
even depends if they have one week off for two
weeks off. If you have one week off, right, you're
(12:40):
probably gonna take off Monday and Tuesday for sure, maybe Wednesday,
and then you know, so you're gonna either start passing
again on Wednesday or Thursday, and then usually you probably
leave on Sunday for the next week. So two weeks
off is kind of nice because you can shut it
down maybe for four or five days, and you still
have another ten days of of prep before you hit
the road. And then as far as each day, it's
(13:04):
I think it's important that they have a game planet,
and usually I'll help them with that, like what are
we gonna do today, Like, you know, we'll talk about
the last stretch three weeks in a row. Okay, you know,
what do we need to tidy up or what do
you want to do before you hit the road again. Um.
And it's different right the pregame or the batting practice
type thing, Like if they're gonna maybe they're gonna play
eighteen holes, right, so then we're not gonna do a
(13:26):
three hour of practice before eighteen whole round. But if
they're not going to play at all and they're just
gonna practice, we might practice for three or four hours,
and a lot of times it's kind of in the middle.
Maybe practice for two hours and then play nine holes. Um.
But it kind of just depends. But I'd say, like
a normal practice day, if they're not gonna play, like
(13:47):
we probably spend most time on the range. Maybe if
they're gonna pass for three hours, may two hours on
the range, um, thirty minutes of puttying and thirty minutes
of chipping, and if they are going to play, a
lot of times I kind of like to like, if
they're gonna go play, let's do it like it's a tournament.
So it's almost like practice for myself as well with them, like, Okay,
(14:07):
you know it's Sunday at a tour event, and um,
so I'm gonna help them with their warm up and
and it's way less technical let's hit some balls than Um,
so it's kind of keeping them in their same routine
as if they were on the road going to play.
Very cool. Yeah, let's take a quick break and we
get back. I want to follow up with Brett on
something he mentioned about technology and golf and the connection
(14:30):
to baseball. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Our guest is Brett Letter or teaching bro at Virginia
Country Club and Lots in Long Beach. Excuse me, Brett.
You mentioned something about technology, and I know, for instance,
(14:52):
track man has its roots in golf and it worked
its way into baseball. It's become a big part of
how baseball is taught. Um, So give me an idea
of how much technology now and you've sort of alluded
to this has crept into golf and how much it
drives the instruction of the game. Yeah. I think it's interesting.
Obviously I'm not a baseball expert, but kind of my
(15:14):
my whole family is being in baseball. So I've always
been a baseball fan and i've always and I've got
to chat with Joe a bit about it over the
last few years. Um, but it's very interesting the correlation
with all the information out there now and um, you know,
kind of Joe's philosophy. It reminds me of like where
you know, it's similar, I think to what I'm doing.
(15:35):
There's so much information out there, but at the end
of the day, like the guy has got to hit
the right shot at the right time. And um, I
mean there's so much numbers out there now, you know,
like of decade golf is kind of this this newer
thing that that a bunch of the guys are using, um,
and it's you know, it's kind of like how to play.
(15:55):
And it's interesting talking to some of the older guys,
like like John Cook is a mentor of mine over
the years, and and he's you know, one of the
probably the smartest golfer I've ever seen, And you know,
he's kind of like, well, we've always done this decade
golf thing. It just wasn't called that, or it wasn't
as as mathematical as it is now, right, I mean
(16:15):
to the point where you know, you got a pitching
wedge in your hand with a left pin and they're
really good and they're they're gonna you're gonna He's like, well,
we we go right at the pin. And you know
with a foreign you don't. And that's kind of what
it is now. It's just you know, precise to the
fact that, okay, your foreign you know you should hit
a four teen feet right here based on your dispersion
(16:36):
all this, And I think the numbers are great, but
I just haven't in my opinion, you know, the the
guys and the caddy like by the way, like John
Wood on your show a couple of weeks ago, like
did a great job, and you know you can tell
he's a great caddy and he's doing well on TV now.
He could totally tell he gets it in the moment.
(16:57):
You know, it's not we're not aiming fourteen feet right
if you have to turn it into a field and
everyone's on the on the same page, isn't I mean
when you were talking about that, and there is a
lot of similarities and I just wrote my notes as
you were talking about decade golf you call it. Yeah,
And the fact that John Cook said you've always done that,
isn't that pretty much common sense defined? I mean, you
get it supported by numbers. In other words, you've thought that,
(17:20):
you've thought this for years, you still think this way,
and then all of a sudden, technology comes along and
kind of reinforces exactly what you've already always thought. So
then in a way or in a sense, it provides
more confidence possibly. And the way you're thinking is that
is that part of how you see the utilization of
this kind of technology. Yeah, I think that's a that's
(17:40):
a good point. Yeah, so maybe it's reinforcing someone that's
using it to the t, you know, like okay when
I but like, for example, a lot of the kids
you know are doing it, like the college kids we coach,
and we're trying to help them, and it's always a
field though, right like some I mean sometimes I've seen
guys you know, water left pins left and they got
a six iron from two hundred yards and they you know,
(18:02):
they hit it to a foot and it's like, you know,
I just felt really good over it, and I and
I wanted to get aggressive, and I mean, who am
I to tell them no if they know they're going
to hit a good shot kind of a thing? Um,
But yeah, yeah, it is you know now, like you said,
it's mathematical and it's like an actual thing. But you know,
even even on you're watching these guys on TV, like
(18:23):
John john Wood on your show was talking about sometimes
the caddy might think, okay, ten feet right here is
probably the play, but there's no target even right ten
feet right, and maybe like the G on the golf
channel is twelve feet right, so okay, let's aim at
the G here, which is close enough right, Like it's
more important to have a good target than I mean,
(18:44):
no one's gonna say, like, aim one ft left of
the g. You know, let's just aim at the at
the G. So, you know, always kind of more. I'm
always trying to look at it more from what's actually
gonna work for the player. So visualization is a huge
part of each golf shot, yeah, you know, and being
comfortable and committed to it. Um, yeah, absolutely. You know.
(19:06):
It's interesting, Joe, I want to ask you and Brett
this question because Brett you mentioned about working with some
college kids. I wonder if you're finding that younger the
younger generation learns differently that this is sort of first
language for them when it comes to especially video but
even technology. And Joe, I'll go back to your days
(19:27):
with the Cubs. I remember talking to Mike Borzella when
people really started getting into some of the technology that
was available, um. And he said, guys like John Lester
were afraid to go into that that room where all
the technology was, and the younger guys couldn't get enough
of it and probably weren't there too much. So how
about that Bret teaching someone um of the younger generation
And is it different? Yeah, I think it is. I
(19:49):
think a lot of the veterans now, you know, all
this stuff is new, so they are probably like Joe said,
you know, they've been doing it forever and a lot
of them are, you know, some of the best in
the world that and I don't think they necessarily need
to change the way do it. And then, like you said,
the younger kids coming up are are growing up with
it so that they don't know any different either. And
(20:10):
I don't think one's necessary, um right or wrong. But
for like a John Cook, for example, has been you
know you want, eleven times on the PGA Tour and
he's still playing a little bit on the Champions Tour. Now.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any interests, you know,
in learning this whole new system telling him how to
play golf. I think he's really confident in in how
he plays golf. In his course management and his golf,
(20:33):
iight cues as high as I've seen. So someone like that,
I don't think is going to be interested in it, um,
like you said, but definitely the younger kids are growing
up with it and it's a big part of what
they're doing. Yeah. But even um, I agree with you
just said about John Cook. But you're always open regardless
with adriree because like for me, for instance, I I
really champion fundamentals in the way it had been taught
(20:56):
for years. But while I do that, I'm always open
hearing new new things, new suggestions, new items. So to me,
it's it's about morphing together, bringing together the old and
the new school and just being in school. It's kind
of where you want to be. Um. So I even
I would, I would even bet like some of the
veteran players, they may not admit to it openly, but
(21:16):
in some ways they might take a look or peak
a look at a track man and maybe a spin rate.
How you know, what was the shape of that shot
was the velocity ball off clubs. So sometimes you still
may want to hear that, or not necessarily because it's
going to change things. Again, it's a reinforcement tool for
me if I'm totally screwed up. Yeah, I might. I
(21:37):
might need some of that. I might need some of
the very very slow motion stuff to help my mind
understand exactly where I've gone a little bit awry. But
I I My point is, I think it's wise to
utilize everything and not just say I'm old school and
I totally don't want to uh listen to anything new.
And for the for that group that's coming along right now,
to to to really disregard fundamentals and experience and feel
(22:01):
of people that have come before you, I think missing
a great resource. Also, Yeah, I agree, there's definitely a
happy medium. I think, um for sure, and you're you're right,
And and now even the guys that may not want
all the information or the old school guys, like everyone's
got all the best players in the world have a
pretty good team, you know, so it might be like
(22:22):
the agent or the manager's job right to kind of
get out of all that information. And like John Wood
was saying, the caddy is a huge part of that
as well. So I think I think my favorite way
to do it would be like the caddy and and
the manager kind of take all the information right and
have a talk with the coach and the player and
then the player doesn't have to get too into it
(22:42):
where where it's you know, they're they're thinking outside of
how they normally do it. And um, the best cardies
in the world, you know, can take all that information
and without the player even knowing, Okay, we're gonna hit
this far and fourteen feet right because that's what the
numbers say we should do. And you know, the players
just listen to him and he's saying, Okay, you see
that guy with the red hat, We're going to aim
(23:03):
at him. And you know, so that's why the Collies
are so important. They can take all that information and
and and do it the right way and the players
just kind of hitting the shot and committing to it. Hey, Brett,
can we talk about your family's baseball connection? Absolutely? Yeah,
gone back, of course, your grandfather, George. He covered the
Dodgers through a lot of years, the prime of Sandy
(23:24):
Kofax's career, and then became an executive with the Angels.
And Ross Newhan once had a note about George letter
called him Anaheim's answer to Bill Veck. He was quite
the promoter back in the day the Angels weren't drawing
too well, And specifically, I remember the story in nineteen
Brett when Um he brought into people from Rockwell International,
(23:47):
the military space company, and had them rig up a
measuring device to measure Nolan Ryan's fastball, and he had
the fans show up and guess what the top velocity
would be that night, and they did pack the joint.
That night became a famous night where Nolan Ryan was
clocked as hardest pitch was actually in the ninth inning
of a game in which he threw up more than
a hundred and fifty pitches. It was one hundred point
(24:09):
eight miles per hour, and a lot of people think
they were actually measuring the ball closer to home plate
than actual out of the hand, so it was probably
much higher than that. But yeah, give me an idea
when Brett, I'm sure you've heard all those stories about
him and and um your connection to baseball, the family's connection,
how important that was for you growing up. Yeah, definitely
a big baseball family, starting with my grandpa George. He
(24:31):
passed away before I was born, but my dad and
my uncle's have have told me all the stories and
they're just huge huge baseball guys. So they're gonna be
jealous I get to hang out with you too, and
I'm you know, I'm the golfer guy. But somehow they're
gonna be like, how did this guy get to hang
out with you guys? But yeah, the during Sandy Kofax.
(24:52):
So Sandy Kofax obviously, Um, My my dad was a big,
big guy and he was a picture. Um he played
a little bit after after high school and in college
and stuff. But same shoes that some Sandy used to
give his cleats to my grandpa and my dad would
wear them. Um, they're you know, left handed pitchers. So
(25:12):
I think my dad has like one filling Sandy Kofax's
shoes literally literally, yeah, exactly. So Um, and then they
got some Nolan Ryan stuff too, from when he was
on the Angels. Um, so a bunch of Sandy Kofax
and Nolan Ryan stuff when I was growing up. That's
so cool. So give me an idea. As long as
we're talking about baseball and golf here, Um, we haven't
(25:35):
heard your scattering report on your latest client here, Joe Madden. Uh,
we hear a lot about baseball swings. Maybe that's not
good for golf, So break him down for us, kind, buddy,
be kind. Yeah no, later on, later on, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
he's got no excuses. Now he's got all his new
clubs and he's hitting his driver too sixty and he's
(25:56):
got this uh, got this new seven when he's hitting
two hundred yards up in the air. So there's no
reason why he can't be shooting underpar. So new clubs
and he hits it plenty far and so no no excuses,
and I think we've got some under par scores coming soon.
It's it's all about accuracy. You can't snap that anymore.
(26:18):
You've been right here. It's all about accuracy. I've been
making a lot better contact. He helped me a lot,
but gosh, it's just my setup. Bred. I still I
still got to get set up. I know we did
the thing with the front foot open step back a
little bit, but I've been just off to the right
a little bit with my irons. I got to get
him back on task. But the overall contact has been
a whole lot better. Absolutely. Yeah. We had a fun
(26:40):
day out there, and we used the track Man with Joe,
which is one of the probably that the most used
tool that all the PGA Tour guys are using it
and it does everything. There's it has so much information
and most of the guys are guys at least, and
I think most of the PGA Tour players use it
mostly for distance, and that's what Um, Joe and I
mostly used it for it, and it's a great tool
(27:02):
for that. You know, the carry distance, that told all distance,
the height that spin and um. A perfect example is
Joe just got new clubs. So when you're getting new clubs,
you want to figure out how far it goes. And
so you're not you're not guessing, it's telling you exactly
how far it's going. So, yeah, we had a fun
day out there and he was doing good. He can
move it. Wow. You know, hey, listen, I don't know
if you got him on the force plates or not,
(27:22):
but I see them around baseball now. I mean, you
talk about hitting in baseball, probably true in golf is
done from the ground up. Give me an idea of
what what force plates have done from an instructional point
of view, Britt, Yeah, it's I mean, it's crazy, Um,
the stuff they're measuring now, even you know, like how
much weight I was on the left foot versus the
(27:44):
right foot and address and you know a lot of
guys you know, actually there's a slight pressure shift to
the left for righty on on the way back, and
then you know it gets loaded into the right foot
and um that the map like the way the way
that it shows you where the pressure is, you know,
not just left or right, but you know he'll toe
inside outside the whole foot, um so. And and that's
(28:06):
that's gotten very popular, especially with the whole distancing right, Like,
the better you already be able to use the ground,
um and the more energy you're getting in off the ground,
you know, the more speed you're gonna be able to generate.
And that's obviously you know, it's kind of you know,
they have it all figured out. Now. If you can
hit it ten yards farther, you know, it's like a
shot around, you know, on average. So the force plates
(28:30):
enabling you to use the ground and get more speed,
you're you're at the highest level with all that money online.
It's it's a useful tool for sure, Joe, have you
taken advantage of then, not just because we gotta do,
Because that's what he was trying to get across to me.
You know, get away from my shoulders primarily when I
come over the top. It's all shoulders that really got
to get the bottom half involved better and my finish
(28:50):
it really did that. I was focusing on the finish
so much better when I really get to that particular
position and don't over the top. I want to just
shoot myself. I mean it's I hate over the top.
I hate off the toe. I hate the hard hook,
and that's the next thing. It's getting rid of that
for me. And it's my the way I finished the
swing and utilizing the ground, just like he's talking about
(29:11):
those those that's my focus right now. So when we
get that played out there, but next time in Mount
Town down in Long Beach, I definitely would like to
give that a go. Yeah, it was interesting. A lot
of like what we did with you right was like
less careful, and we didn't we didn't have the force
plates with us, so we we didn't we couldn't measure it.
But like for example, Joe making a way bigger turn
on the way back and the way he kind of
(29:32):
set up his lower body to do that that it
would have changed on the force plates for sure, like
without changing like like let's add more weight on your
right foot in the back swing. We didn't say that,
but he definitely was just by making a bigger turn
as left slowders working more over to his right side,
and so there's definitely more more weight shift going on
now for him, for sure. I'm going right to the
(29:52):
range after we get done today, by the way, so
play play, play the more range today. It sounds good. Hey,
let's take a quick break when we get back. We've
got more with Rent Letter stick around. Welcome back to
the Book of Joe podcast and our guests Brett Letter
(30:14):
or Brett Um. I know, listen, I enjoyed golf as
much as anybody as well. Question I get asked a
lot from people who maybe your casual like, what difference
does the golf ball make? You've been around so long
and taught so many different people. Explain to people why
golf balls are not all the same. Yeah, the golf
ball is a huge deal, um, and they're all they're
(30:35):
all different a lot of it. The best, especially the
best players in the world are they get used to
one right and they they know what it does there
in this win they can trust that. For example, Um,
Patrick Cantley is using the two thousand nineteen pro V
one xs and Tyler's comes out with a new prov
one um every two years. UM, so like that he
(30:58):
skipped the prov one accent and it so and obviously
right there shouldn't be much a difference, but it's a
little bit of a difference to the point when he's
pressing UM out in Long Beach, he's got his golf ball,
so he doesn't even practice with the probi when I
just gets it's a little bit different. For example, like
hit his spins a little less. The two thousand nineteen
(31:20):
does a few hundred RPMs, which translates he he hits
that golf ball two or two yards further, probably with
his irons than uh x um. But yeah, there, it's
interesting there, you know, summer launching higher, lower, more spin,
less spin. For for the best guys in the world,
a lot of it's the feel. Um. You know, they
(31:42):
might try a new golf ball and hit one put
with it, and then it's out. It doesn't matter how
how good it's going to perform. If it if it
doesn't feel right to them, then then it's out. You know.
You might try to talk and into our seeing you know,
club companies or golf ball companies. You no, look how
good this is. It's flying farther and higher, and the
(32:02):
spin is perfect and you know, but it doesn't feel right,
um so, and and it's changed a lot over the years.
It's pretty amazing the technology, how how fast it's coming
off with the driver, and how good it is around
the green still that soft feeling, being able to get
a lot of spin around the greens. I was. I
was told to use the bridge Stone ball when I
went to the paying performance approving grounds. They did everything. Man,
(32:26):
they they break you down in every possible way, the
the lie of your club. I'm green with the paying irons,
the shaft on my driver, and they set me up
with a new putter, which is a straight shafted putter
with no kind of angler ben in it. And my god,
I mean, I've been putting incredibly better just with that
one particular putter. But like you're talking about, they they
(32:47):
said I should have a bridgetone I based on my
swing and swing speed I guess, and everything else. It's
incredible the way all this is broken. And actually when
I hit the bridge Stone I could actually draw the
ball more readily or easily than I can with the titleist.
I don't know why. I look, they're bigger dimples, but
all this little stuff I guess, uh it does play
in then I'm listening. I'm not good enough to worry
about that, but it's interesting how it's all considered. What's
(33:08):
interesting just to follow up on that, it's not just
I mean, Joe, you talked about your your sticks. And
I'll go back again to the baseball parallel and talk
to Nolan Arronado, who, after playing in Colorado gets traded
to the Cardinals. Obviously, it's much more of a pitcher's
park than than in Denver, and he felt like he
could hit the ball the same exit vel and it
(33:28):
wasn't traveling as far in St. Louis makes sense, right,
So he said, I have to figure out a way
to get a little higher exit velocity. So what he did,
and this has really become really very popular around the
baseball now, is he went to a bat fitting performance center,
just as you would as Joe did, to find the
right clubs to hit, and he wound up getting a
(33:49):
bat that was essentially the same size and weight, but
this different distribution. It has a like a hockey puck
style counterweight at the bottom where the knob is. It's
a huge knob and he felt like he got the
bat through the zone faster. Um. That has really taken
root in baseball as well. Again, another parallel between golf
and baseball. So, Brent, when I mentioned the golf ball,
(34:13):
I'm sure that it's probably exponentially greater. To make sure
you have the right set of sticks. Yeah, and they
definitely go together, right, So you know, you might be
using this golf ball and it's perfect for you, and
then you go get a new driver and maybe now
you gotta get a new golf ball as well. Um,
different spin right to a big part of it, especially
(34:35):
um with the driver. So basically, you know, the higher
you launch it that for distance purposes, the the less
spin you're gonna have. So um, the less spin you want. Sorry,
the higher you launch it, the less spin you want. Um.
That's kind of thing that everyone's trying now is like
that that high launch, low spin. Someone that likes to
see it lower. You know, maybe they're gonna launch it
(34:56):
at ten degrees instead of thirteen degrees with the driver
that that person is going to need more spin and
you know, right, and it kind of goes back to
telling them what's better. Wrong. You know, some of the
best players in the world like to see it come
out lower, so they they're probably going to be more
likely to use a golf ball that spins more because
they like to see that lower trajectory. But but you're
(35:16):
totally right. Getting everything dialed in and and having the
golf ball work with the golf clubs and especially the
driver is super important. Why are the ladies so accurate
with the irons? I watched them on TV. They never
miss a green man, they never missed a green and regulation.
Oh you're right. Um, I'm not sure I know why
(35:37):
they are, but I agree with you. They hit it
so good. They don't miss very many fairways, and from
a repetition standpoint, it's impressive. Um. In general, they don't
curve it very much. They tend to hit it pretty straight,
and it's like watching iron Byron out there on the range.
But when you got some of the best ladies in
the world, it's it's as repetitive as any of the
(35:57):
best guys I've seen. And that the Ladies Tour has
gotten a lot better and it's been fun to watch.
I'm super happy for the them and um, their their
schedules are better, their purses are better, and uh, it's
gonna I think it's gonna be a good couple of
years for the LPGA tour. The thing I see and
quickly is that effort level seems to be non existent.
They're so casual with their swing in a sense, and
(36:19):
their tempo is incredible. Joe, I was just about to
say the same thing to my untrained eye. It's all
about tempo. It's just very rhythmatic. Nobody is too fast,
and obviously you know the court as well. They have
what to me looks like very long swings. But the
tempo is just beautiful. It's really really impressive to watch
them up close. Hey, Joe, now it's time for our segment.
(36:41):
It is a reading from the Book of Joe Brett.
When we get a guest on here, we like to
say that you can pick any page in our book,
you'll find something that's interesting. And so to put that
to the test, we have our guests to pick a
random number between one and three, dred and sixty eight
and we'll dive in and see what's on that page.
So you're on the tea box Brett, it's your call
(37:03):
giving me number any number eighty four. I don't think
you want to eighty four in your scorecard, Joe. You
want to do better than that. So but I guess
that's that's three trips to the bunkers. That's fairway bunk
Any reason why you picked that number, just that's kind
of my go to just that year I was born in.
(37:24):
So now you know all my all my past codes. Uh.
This is Joe looking back on Game seven of the
sixteen World Series and how you you kind of go
in with a plan, and it doesn't mean you have
to be wedded to it, but you start out with
a plan and let the game dictate where you want
to go. So this is basically about your bullpen usage
(37:46):
Joe in Game seven. Again, before the game, you know
there are all these numbers created, matrix numbers, whatever. And
of course, when you don't know your guy or you
don't know the guy you're facing, sometimes these do become
more important. But if you know your guy and you've
seen this other team often enough, easily could make your
decisions pregame and during the game based on what you've
(38:08):
been seeing. Void of any of the kind of this information.
It doesn't really matter at that point. I know what
I know, I know what I see, I know who
my picture is right now, I know what that hitter
is like. I know what he's been like more recently
because I've researched that. So you then make the decision. Now,
to me, that's gut. That is not analytics. It's just
(38:30):
based on information. That's normal stuff that's been going on
for the last how many years, I don't know, forever.
Managers have been making these kind of decisions based on
that forever. And that's the bullpen. How about that bread
that sounds like John Cook wrote that, Yeah exactly. Yeah,
and you guys, I started the book. I haven't finished it, yeah,
but I've really enjoyed it so far. You guys have
(38:51):
done a great job with it. It's a it's a
good read for sure, Thanks buddy. Yeah, I mean that's
the bullpen part of it. Um, And it's it's kind
of cool to be compared to John Cook. I agree.
There's I've talked about feel being the gift of experience.
You have to go through so many hours of doing
something to be able to I think comfortably say or
(39:12):
say with confidence. I felt that or I feel that
it's something I saw, so I went with it was
my gut. If you haven't put in the time, if
you haven't earned the right to say, I I felt it. Um,
I really believe that. So for me, I believe I've
earned the right to do. I know I have, and
the hours have been put in, the different situations have
been recognized, the different conversations have been had, So I
(39:33):
get it. And that's what I'm saying earlier. I think
the combination of old school news school being in school,
you try to combine everything at your disposal and try
to then make come to the right conclusions or make
the best decisions. Yeah. Yeah, you talk a lot about
feel in the book, and I totally agree. I'm always
asking the player, you know, even on the range good
(39:54):
or bad, what does that feel like? What does that
feel like? And and I think, you know, even if
you're trying to make a mechanical change, you know, and
there it's got a it's got a it's got to
be a feel. You know, you've got it's gotta they've
gotta feel something. And and we're always trying to you know,
what what are we gonna feel in order to get
this where we want it right on, Joe, Doesn't that
always go back to what you say too as a
(40:16):
hitting instructor. Once that player comes back to you and
says I feel it, yeah, then you know you've arrived
at something. Yeah. That with my my litmus test there
was you know, you're you're observing, you're standing off to
the side always well I always try to watch from
the open side, and you're trying to get a point across,
get a point across, and all of a sudden he says,
I felt it. And if he says that at the
(40:37):
time when you're observing, he's doing the right thing. Now
you have something. So if he's saying to you, I
feel something. I felt that, you you see that it's
not necessarily right or correct, as you just know from
the years of experience. You you take that and then
you still try to work with But when you get
I felt it, and the observation is like, right on,
now you've gotten something, You've gotten somewhere, and now this
(40:58):
guy's really making some progress at that point. Yeah, exactly.
Sometimes I get most excited about a miss they might
have over and over and we're trying to figure it out,
and then finally they kind of leave one out to
the right or whatever it might be, and there like, oh,
I felt that, Like I felt what we're talking about,
and it's like boom now now now we're onto it.
(41:18):
Lest thing for me, brother, this is kind of literally
out of left field. You're a left handed golfer. Obviously
most of the people you work with are going to
be right handed. Is that an advantage, mirror image disadvantage
or no factor at all. It's probably close to no
factor at all. I'd say, if anything, it's an advantage.
I kind of like standing in front and doing the
(41:39):
mirror image thing. Especially a short game. It's kind of
nice just to you know, left handed right handed, you're
kind of there's five balls on the ground and you
can kind of face each other versus when I when
I'm teaching another lefty right it's a little a little
more awkward. Um, but I'd say it doesn't really matter.
But I'm definitely more used to right handers now, you know,
(42:00):
So if you're talking about you know, I should probably
say lead on and more instead of you know, left arm.
I catched myself sometimes with a lefty. If if we're
getting a lead arm field, I might say like left
arm them. I oh sorry, I meant you know, even
though I'm lefty, I'm just so used to write is now. Yeah,
I think the mirror image things works out pretty well. Cool. Well,
we really enjoyed this, bread. I gotta tell you, I
(42:22):
learned so much listening to you. Um My biggest takeaway
probably is that the next time I played golf with Joe,
He's gonna have to give me more strokes. I hope,
so yeah, I hope, I hope so too. Thanks again
for joining us. It's been blast yeah, a blastom big
fan of both of you, so thank you very much
and keep up the good work. Brett. We'll see you
when I get back out there again. Thank you for
(42:43):
a couple of days ago. My best to all the
boys there. And uh one of the best kept secrets
in the West Coast in the city of Long Beaches,
Virginia country Club. It's a tilling half designed course. It's
absolutely gorgeous and I love I love hitting out there.
So see you back. They want to get back in town.
Absolutely looking forward to it. Thanks buddy, be Well. Brett.
All right, thanks guys. Well, that was a really interesting
(43:06):
dive into let's faces. More than golf about teaching, right,
I just I can't get enough of that. Especially you're
talking about someone who's worked with some of the better
golfers in the world, right, I mean, and you get
out there to hang with them. He's a younger fella,
full of energy. He does keep things very simple, very positive,
although very uh straightforward. It was a couple of times
(43:26):
you had to tell me I stunk the other day,
which was absolutely accurate, and I love that. I love
to be told, um, exactly what somebody as an instructor.
As a pupil, I need to know exactly what the
instructor is seeing, and he's very good at that. So
I want to get back out there and see him again.
Like I said to Virginia Country Club, wow, um, it's
a tilling half designed very similar to my place in Pennsylvania,
(43:47):
The Valley Country Club another tilling half course in Sugarlow, Pennsylvania.
So there are some similarities between the two places, which
really is also a big draw for me too. Honesty
without compassion is cruelty. I think I've heard that before. Yeah, exactly,
But just good, don't worry about me, just just get
me right between the eyeballs. I could handle it. Hey,
we didn't even mention. Yeah, if you're into golf fantasy
(44:09):
leagues on the LPG eight tour, LILYA. Voo he's worked with.
She was a rookie in twenty nineteen and has such
a hard time. She only made one cut ninth starts.
She thought about quitting the game of golf, and now
she has really come on and she's a name to
look forward to in three He's very proud of that.
He was. We were talking about it the other day.
I think she's like thirty seven thirty eight now in
(44:29):
the world. Um had a tough start coming out of college.
I believe I was missing cuts, wasn't playing well. Then
all of a sudden, Um, I did a gig last
night for Brandon guy are on mental skills in baseball.
I guess you just Um started to believe that she'd
belong there, and she was able to breathe in the moment,
and she started to find her confidence again. And now
she's definitely on the uptake, and he really, uh, he's
(44:51):
very strong on her right now and regarding where she's
at and where she's gonna end up in a in
a very near future. Yeah, I got a kick out
of all the comparisons and and parallels between golf and baseball.
As you know, Joe, when we talked about this, A
lot of of technologies have come out of the golf
world and into the baseball world. But doesn't it still
come down to the power of the teacher. Of course? Um,
(45:12):
I mean, of course that the overwriting talent is always
going to be number one, But a really good teacher
is definitely going to extract the most out of you.
And um, I could again, I could talk about myself
on a personal level. You whenever you are being instructed,
it's got to be simple, it's got to be concise,
it's gotta make sense. It's got to be something I
could hold onto and not have to overthink. It cannot
(45:33):
overburden my mind. Uh, those guys are the best teachers.
And we talked about visualization. I mean, it's not just
about mechanics. Everybody wants mechanics. Physical mechanics are the easiest
part of any sport to teach. The mental mechanics are
the most difficult. Those are the ones that require redundancy
and the ones that are gonna wear you out. But
the ones that are going to make the difference. So uh,
(45:55):
as a really good instructor, you have to be good,
be both good physically and mentally regarding how you're going
to teach mechanics of the game. And for me, the
overwriting factor the part that really makes you an excellent instructor.
Instructors to be able to teach the mental mechanics. Also, well, hey,
we've got an upcoming exciting event you should know about.
(46:15):
It's the Savannah Book Festival. Joe and I will be
at the Savannah Book Festival to make our presentation on
the Book of Joe. You're more than welcome to join.
It's a huge weekend in Savannah. Many different authors will
be there talking about their books, doing readings, taking questions.
It's a great place to listen to not just us,
(46:36):
but many other authors. So check it out Saturday, February eighteenth,
in Savannah, Georgia. Looking forward to that, Joe, the same here, Tommy.
It's going to be quite an experience for me. This
is something you're kind of used to. This is uh,
fish out of water for me, but I'm looking forward
to it. It's a great place to get your book signed.
We will be signing books at the event, So put
that on your calendar. A couple of good golf courses nearby,
(46:58):
from what I understand, so it'd be a good a
good couple of days. I almost feel like, you know,
when you have that really good around you're walking off
that eighteenth grain. Man, that's that's such a good feeling.
That's the way I feel right now. So on our
way off the green, you've got something to take us
out here. I think it applies to UM a bit.
I follow different people on Twitter. I fall Hemingway stuff
and I'm Jack hero Act. I picked them up the
(47:18):
other day and this is like tis fits into everything,
and it fits into an overarching concept of doing simple better.
But he wrote, one day I will find the right
words and they will be simple. Jack Heiro wat wow.
I mean we all want complicated, convoluted answers. We're not
even realizing we can't hold on to that. When you're
competing with things get quick, with things get tough, you
(47:41):
need simplicity to deal with and you need that one
nugget back here that that that helps or aid you
in that very hot moment. So one day I will
find the right words and they will be simple. Mr
Kiroac beautiful and beautiful that is that sounds like the
backbone of teaching. There you go, man, well said, See
you next time. Joe, I'm straight. Thanks, brother, I shall h.
(48:05):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit
the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition
of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci
and my good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, how you doing today?
I am well, Tom, thank you very much, and I'm
really excited about this morning's guest. You really tried to
(00:26):
help me a couple of days ago. Actually you did
a lot of good stuff from me, just a matter
of me taking it to the actual golf course. But
this guy is this guy is fantastic. All the boys
back there in Long Beach love him, and we're gonna
talk about that in a moment. But Brett really appreciate
it coming on this morning, and we have a busy schedule.
It's eight o'clock in the morning there in Long Beach areas,
(00:46):
so we really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for
having me, got it. So this is sort of the
sweet spot for Joe and probably for me to you
talk about the intersection of golf baseball. Yeah, we'll get
into that too, and instruction right teaching. This is really
cool to have on Brett Letterer. He is at the
(01:06):
Virginia Country Club in Long Beach where he works with
Jimmy Mulligan, the CEO there, and Jamie coaches Nellie and
Desca Corda, Patrick Cantley. Of course you've heard of them.
He's also a veteran of what twelve years playing the tours,
Brett Um, so he's got a lot of playing experience
as well. So welcome to the podcast, Brett. And uh,
let's get right into it, because I'm always curious about
(01:29):
how guys get into what they do. So obviously you
start out with some dreams as being a being on
the PGA tour as a player. Give me the idea
of your entree into the instruction side of things. Yeah,
I always kind of had a niche for coaching, and
um when I got done A graduated from lom Me
Stay in two thousand and seven and then played for
twelve years kind of on the corn Ferry Tour and
(01:50):
uh PGA Tour of Canada. And even when I was playing,
I kind of you know, we're all golf nerds out there,
and you know, you're on the road so much, and
I always enjoy just kind of hanging out on the
range and UM ended up kind of helping out my
buddies on the range during the tournaments when I was playing,
and I kind of knew if if finally get on
the PGA Tour and have a great career like the
(02:11):
best players in the world, that um I wanted to coach.
I've just always kind of enjoyed the golf swing and
and there's so much into the coaching part of it,
and it's it's interesting to me and um now I've
been coaching at Virginia for U a little over four
years now, and so far, so good. I'm loving it.
You sta something right there. I mean, it's interesting because
(02:32):
you played that long, whether it's corn Ferry or up
in Canada. What do you think is the one thing
that possibly held you back? Because it sounds like you
are a good self evaluator and sometimes people have a
very difficult time with that. So what was the component
of your game that you thought was lacking? Yeah, I
always kind of think about it, and I kind of
you know, it's one of those things like I wish
(02:52):
I knew then what I knew now kind of thing,
especially being around a bunch of the best players in
the world, excuse me, and watching what they're doing now,
I'd say My biggest weakness was probably my my distance.
And and when I turned pro in two thousand and
seven to now, the game has changed quite a bit. Um.
Distance wasn't anything like it is now. You know, back
(03:16):
when I turned pro, you know, the trainers and the
physios and all all the speed stuff wasn't where it
is now. And I was kind of a short hitter
back then. So the game over the twelve years I played,
UM changed a lot, and I kind of got left
behind a little bit in the in the distance aspect
of it. That's really interesting, Britt, because you are I
(03:38):
think listed at five nine sixty, so obviously not a
bigger guy. Do you think the game now is is
almost biased against the shorter, smaller player because of technology,
uh and the way the other the bigger guys have
taken over in terms of their length. I do. I mean,
I don't think you have to be a huge guy, Um.
(04:00):
I mean j T and Rory. There there's a lot
of good players hit it hard that aren't big guys, um,
and especially now, a lot of them. Um. You know,
they've got the best trainers in the world, and it's
pretty interesting what they're doing to get more speed and
all the technology with force plates and ground forces and
all the exercises they're doing. Um, it's just gotten to
(04:24):
a crazy level, you know, of of how good the
trainers are and how diligent the players are. So but yeah,
you're you're right it. It's definitely helpful. I think to
be bigger. You know, you've got someone like John wrong
is his thighs probably bigger than my waist, um and
he and he smashes it. So I think definitely size
(04:46):
helps for sure regarding all that. And because I was
with just with him a couple of days ago and
we really had a great time out there. I just
some new things I just got. I was under his
watchful eye. But the thing that I was I was
hitting coach also in the Angels minor league system in
a little bit into big league level two. Um, I'm
always curious because I know what I did as a
(05:07):
hitting coach. Your process the first time you look at
a player, the first time somebody shows up at the
range with you there, well, is there is there a
first spot that you look to, a first part of
the body that you're trying to decipher whether you like
it or not, and then build from there. So what
is what is your process when you see a golfer
for the first time. Yeah, that's a good question. Um,
(05:27):
probably a few minutes chatting with them just to kind
of get to know them and what I'm dealing with,
trying to get them to be a better golfer. And
you know, it's a lot different, um, you know, from
your average member at Virginia Country Club who gets lessons
to a tour player who's trying to play, you know,
for a living. So a lot of times that that's
gonna make a big difference. But as far as once
(05:49):
you kind of get into it, even a bunch of
my guys make fun of me, like they'll go on
the road for a few weeks and come back and
and we spend ten or fifteen minutes just on their
on their set up. So I'm big on like alignment
and posture and the way I look because you know,
if that you know, it's always like now, now the
best players in the world, you know, how how their
(06:10):
coaches with them almost every week, and a lot of
it isn't necessarily like something's wrong, but even when it's
going well, to have eyes on you to make sure
you're kind of staying in the right lane so that
you don't get off a lot of times, like for example,
a right hander might you know, get they're playing and
win over the weeks and the coach isn't there, and
they get aimed a little bit to the right, and
now they're going to compensate for that. They get a
(06:32):
little over it, and you know, you do that for
a few weeks, and then if the coach isn't there,
they get home and everything's kind of off because you
know that the setup or the alignment or the posture
of the ball physician was off first. I'm always that's
always first. So before you go into that, you know,
you gotta be you gotta look right in alignment, right
addressed before you get into anything else. I love that
(06:53):
you don't even mention mechanics right there. I mean, that's
that's really uh. I'm pretty much the same way as
a hitting coach. I always look at the feet, work
my way up, looking results, and work backwards. And you
always wanted to get in a conversation what do you do?
What are you saying? Right? Are you seeing the ball? Balls?
The ball look quick as it looks small? Um, all
those kind of different factors outside of the physical mechanics.
Are always looking for the physical pantasy. How how are
(07:15):
we gonna get fixed my backswing? Um, you know, how
I'm delivering the club to the ball, my finish head position,
all these different things we always want, uh information, We
want this, this, uh these thoughts that make us so
much better. But like you're saying, and you're you're talking
about the posture and set up and and then I'm
talking about position in the batter's box, where your feet,
I mean, all those things that I think we overlook
(07:37):
because we we want to right away get to a
mechanical fix. We always want Mr Good Wrench to show
up and tweak a couple of things with their wrench
and all of a sudden we feel better. But you're
you're really describing the process as far as I can see,
as I did it also as a baseball hooding instructor,
too right. And then pace or temper wherever you want
to call it, I think it's really important as well.
(07:58):
Um and then um, like I've I've enjoyed getting to
talk to you. I remember a couple of years ago
and you can't out and I was kind of picking
your brain and we got to spend a couple hours together,
and you know, I probably worry out with all these questions.
But one of the things that you know, like like
you said, like staying away from mechanics for a little bit. Um.
You know, I asked you, I remember a couple years
ago ago, have you ever told the invited hold the
(08:20):
bat tighter or harder? And he said, no, you told
me that you know, I impact or when they hit
the ball, they're gonna be holding it tight enough, and
stuff like that. Like you know, and when you came
out the other day, you know, the tempo or longer right,
like is it longer um pace wise or is it
longer like actually make a longer backswing um. So a
(08:42):
lot of times you can get the mechanical or the
technical fix with with with a pacing or a lightness thing.
So a lot of times when you you know that
the step gets better and the pace gets better, that
technical thing that's off kind of fixes itself. And and
to be honest, sometimes I think we get lucky and
if something's off and you tell him to slow it
(09:03):
down or make it longer, aim here, move the ball here,
and all of a sudden it falls back into place
and you don't need to get into the technical thing,
which I think ideally is best. Right, Like, the less
information or you getting the player's head, the better. I
can say, Amen to that. I cannot agree more. You know,
(09:26):
it's abouty years ago making a connection here to baseball.
I remember talking to Mark McGuire, who was a really
good golfer himself hit the ball a mile and a
half and he played on in some pro ams. And
I asked him, Mark, what's the difference from and he's
really good, what's the difference between your game and a
professionals game? And he thought the one thing that really
stood out is the ability of the pro to shape
the ball anyway that they wanted. And I'm wondering bread
(09:49):
as you work with you know, the courtas and the
cant Lee's. I mean, you're talking about the one percent
of the golf world. What does that one percent do
that even the good, really good professional golfers are trying
to do. Yeah, that's a good question, um that I
think that the best guys in the world are. It's funny,
(10:11):
like I just heard a thing with Mark Blackburn is
one of the best coaches in the world. He was
like the two thousand and twenty one National PGA teacher
and coach there, and then Jamie Mulligan, who I've been
lucky that have been around for thirty years now. He
was the next year is coaching there. But you know
it's Mark Blackman was talking about Tiger and how good
Tiger was at shaping shots, like like you're talking about
(10:32):
Mark McGuire mentioned, And I think even most PGA Tour
players don't need to do that that much, meaning like,
get really really good at at your best shot. You know,
whether it's a draw or fade or straight ball higher lower,
and you can hit that shot most of the time.
So I think a lot of times even the best
(10:54):
guys in the world get get too hung up and
trying to hit like the perfect shots. So if you
got two twenty to a right pin, these guys are
hitting five iron and you know they depends on the
right and they kind of want to fade it in there,
which sure like Tiger did it and it looks pretty,
but you know, from to twenty, if you hit it
fifteen feet left and make a you know it takes
(11:15):
you three to get in the hole. From there, you're
winning and you're you're picking up shots skating on the
field there. Um, so I think the best guy. I mean,
sure they can shape it right, and like if you're
behind a tree and they move, need to move it
one way or another. They're they're all good enough to
do that. Um, but I think I think it gets
a little overrated, you know, from from further away where
I kind of like to my guys. You know, like
(11:37):
if you're a five iron is a three yard draw
and we got two twenty to the right pin, just
you know, start at ten feet left and hit a
three three yard drawn, you got twenty ft left of
the pin towards the middle of the green. Beautiful stuff
right there. I mean with regarding all this, and we're
strying to stay away from mechanics, but never unless you
have to practice with these with these really good players.
(11:58):
UM say they're in between tournaments and they come see
you at Virginia. Um, how how often? How many days
did they practice? How many days per week do they practice?
And just a dovetail into that question, just curiously, the
day that they do play pre game like batting practice?
How what what is a good batting practice? How long
should it last? How what's the progression you're looking for,
(12:20):
So how many days do you actually practice between tournaments?
And then actually the day of a tournament, what does
your batting practice look like? Yeah, so like say, you know,
i'd say three in a row somewhat normal for a
tour player. So they go on the road for three
in a row, and then they'll you know, so it
even depends if they have one week off for two
weeks off. If you have one week off, right, you're
(12:40):
probably gonna take off Monday and Tuesday for sure, maybe Wednesday,
and then you know, so you're gonna either start passing
again on Wednesday or Thursday, and then usually you probably
leave on Sunday for the next week. So two weeks
off is kind of nice because you can shut it
down maybe for four or five days, and you still
have another ten days of of prep before you hit
the road. And then as far as each day, it's
(13:04):
I think it's important that they have a game planet,
and usually I'll help them with that, like what are
we gonna do today, Like, you know, we'll talk about
the last stretch three weeks in a row. Okay, you know,
what do we need to tidy up or what do
you want to do before you hit the road again. Um.
And it's different right the pregame or the batting practice
type thing, Like if they're gonna maybe they're gonna play
eighteen holes, right, so then we're not gonna do a
(13:26):
three hour of practice before eighteen whole round. But if
they're not going to play at all and they're just
gonna practice, we might practice for three or four hours,
and a lot of times it's kind of in the middle.
Maybe practice for two hours and then play nine holes. Um.
But it kind of just depends. But I'd say, like
a normal practice day, if they're not gonna play, like
(13:47):
we probably spend most time on the range. Maybe if
they're gonna pass for three hours, may two hours on
the range, um, thirty minutes of puttying and thirty minutes
of chipping, and if they are going to play, a
lot of times I kind of like to like, if
they're gonna go play, let's do it like it's a tournament.
So it's almost like practice for myself as well with them, like, Okay,
(14:07):
you know it's Sunday at a tour event, and um,
so I'm gonna help them with their warm up and
and it's way less technical let's hit some balls than Um,
so it's kind of keeping them in their same routine
as if they were on the road going to play.
Very cool. Yeah, let's take a quick break and we
get back. I want to follow up with Brett on
something he mentioned about technology and golf and the connection
(14:30):
to baseball. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Our guest is Brett Letter or teaching bro at Virginia
Country Club and Lots in Long Beach. Excuse me, Brett.
You mentioned something about technology, and I know, for instance,
(14:52):
track man has its roots in golf and it worked
its way into baseball. It's become a big part of
how baseball is taught. Um, So give me an idea
of how much technology now and you've sort of alluded
to this has crept into golf and how much it
drives the instruction of the game. Yeah. I think it's interesting.
Obviously I'm not a baseball expert, but kind of my
(15:14):
my whole family is being in baseball. So I've always
been a baseball fan and i've always and I've got
to chat with Joe a bit about it over the
last few years. Um, but it's very interesting the correlation
with all the information out there now and um, you know,
kind of Joe's philosophy. It reminds me of like where
you know, it's similar, I think to what I'm doing.
(15:35):
There's so much information out there, but at the end
of the day, like the guy has got to hit
the right shot at the right time. And um, I
mean there's so much numbers out there now, you know,
like of decade golf is kind of this this newer
thing that that a bunch of the guys are using, um,
and it's you know, it's kind of like how to play.
(15:55):
And it's interesting talking to some of the older guys,
like like John Cook is a mentor of mine over
the years, and and he's you know, one of the
probably the smartest golfer I've ever seen, And you know,
he's kind of like, well, we've always done this decade
golf thing. It just wasn't called that, or it wasn't
as as mathematical as it is now, right, I mean
(16:15):
to the point where you know, you got a pitching
wedge in your hand with a left pin and they're
really good and they're they're gonna you're gonna He's like, well,
we we go right at the pin. And you know
with a foreign you don't. And that's kind of what
it is now. It's just you know, precise to the
fact that, okay, your foreign you know you should hit
a four teen feet right here based on your dispersion
(16:36):
all this, And I think the numbers are great, but
I just haven't in my opinion, you know, the the
guys and the caddy like by the way, like John
Wood on your show a couple of weeks ago, like
did a great job, and you know you can tell
he's a great caddy and he's doing well on TV now.
He could totally tell he gets it in the moment.
(16:57):
You know, it's not we're not aiming fourteen feet right
if you have to turn it into a field and
everyone's on the on the same page, isn't I mean
when you were talking about that, and there is a
lot of similarities and I just wrote my notes as
you were talking about decade golf you call it. Yeah,
And the fact that John Cook said you've always done that,
isn't that pretty much common sense defined? I mean, you
get it supported by numbers. In other words, you've thought that,
(17:20):
you've thought this for years, you still think this way,
and then all of a sudden, technology comes along and
kind of reinforces exactly what you've already always thought. So
then in a way or in a sense, it provides
more confidence possibly. And the way you're thinking is that
is that part of how you see the utilization of
this kind of technology. Yeah, I think that's a that's
(17:40):
a good point. Yeah, so maybe it's reinforcing someone that's
using it to the t, you know, like okay when
I but like, for example, a lot of the kids
you know are doing it, like the college kids we coach,
and we're trying to help them, and it's always a
field though, right like some I mean sometimes I've seen
guys you know, water left pins left and they got
a six iron from two hundred yards and they you know,
(18:02):
they hit it to a foot and it's like, you know,
I just felt really good over it, and I and
I wanted to get aggressive, and I mean, who am
I to tell them no if they know they're going
to hit a good shot kind of a thing? Um,
But yeah, yeah, it is you know now, like you said,
it's mathematical and it's like an actual thing. But you know,
even even on you're watching these guys on TV, like
(18:23):
John john Wood on your show was talking about sometimes
the caddy might think, okay, ten feet right here is
probably the play, but there's no target even right ten
feet right, and maybe like the G on the golf
channel is twelve feet right, so okay, let's aim at
the G here, which is close enough right, Like it's
more important to have a good target than I mean,
(18:44):
no one's gonna say, like, aim one ft left of
the g. You know, let's just aim at the at
the G. So, you know, always kind of more. I'm
always trying to look at it more from what's actually
gonna work for the player. So visualization is a huge
part of each golf shot, yeah, you know, and being
comfortable and committed to it. Um, yeah, absolutely. You know.
(19:06):
It's interesting, Joe, I want to ask you and Brett
this question because Brett you mentioned about working with some
college kids. I wonder if you're finding that younger the
younger generation learns differently that this is sort of first
language for them when it comes to especially video but
even technology. And Joe, I'll go back to your days
(19:27):
with the Cubs. I remember talking to Mike Borzella when
people really started getting into some of the technology that
was available, um. And he said, guys like John Lester
were afraid to go into that that room where all
the technology was, and the younger guys couldn't get enough
of it and probably weren't there too much. So how
about that Bret teaching someone um of the younger generation
And is it different? Yeah, I think it is. I
(19:49):
think a lot of the veterans now, you know, all
this stuff is new, so they are probably like Joe said,
you know, they've been doing it forever and a lot
of them are, you know, some of the best in
the world that and I don't think they necessarily need
to change the way do it. And then, like you said,
the younger kids coming up are are growing up with
it so that they don't know any different either. And
(20:10):
I don't think one's necessary, um right or wrong. But
for like a John Cook, for example, has been you
know you want, eleven times on the PGA Tour and
he's still playing a little bit on the Champions Tour. Now.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any interests, you know,
in learning this whole new system telling him how to
play golf. I think he's really confident in in how
he plays golf. In his course management and his golf,
(20:33):
iight cues as high as I've seen. So someone like that,
I don't think is going to be interested in it, um,
like you said, but definitely the younger kids are growing
up with it and it's a big part of what
they're doing. Yeah. But even um, I agree with you
just said about John Cook. But you're always open regardless
with adriree because like for me, for instance, I I
really champion fundamentals in the way it had been taught
(20:56):
for years. But while I do that, I'm always open
hearing new new things, new suggestions, new items. So to me,
it's it's about morphing together, bringing together the old and
the new school and just being in school. It's kind
of where you want to be. Um. So I even
I would, I would even bet like some of the
veteran players, they may not admit to it openly, but
(21:16):
in some ways they might take a look or peak
a look at a track man and maybe a spin rate.
How you know, what was the shape of that shot
was the velocity ball off clubs. So sometimes you still
may want to hear that, or not necessarily because it's
going to change things. Again, it's a reinforcement tool for
me if I'm totally screwed up. Yeah, I might. I
(21:37):
might need some of that. I might need some of
the very very slow motion stuff to help my mind
understand exactly where I've gone a little bit awry. But
I I My point is, I think it's wise to
utilize everything and not just say I'm old school and
I totally don't want to uh listen to anything new.
And for the for that group that's coming along right now,
to to to really disregard fundamentals and experience and feel
(22:01):
of people that have come before you, I think missing
a great resource. Also, Yeah, I agree, there's definitely a
happy medium. I think, um for sure, and you're you're right,
And and now even the guys that may not want
all the information or the old school guys, like everyone's
got all the best players in the world have a
pretty good team, you know, so it might be like
(22:22):
the agent or the manager's job right to kind of
get out of all that information. And like John Wood
was saying, the caddy is a huge part of that
as well. So I think I think my favorite way
to do it would be like the caddy and and
the manager kind of take all the information right and
have a talk with the coach and the player and
then the player doesn't have to get too into it
(22:42):
where where it's you know, they're they're thinking outside of
how they normally do it. And um, the best cardies
in the world, you know, can take all that information
and without the player even knowing, Okay, we're gonna hit
this far and fourteen feet right because that's what the
numbers say we should do. And you know, the players
just listen to him and he's saying, Okay, you see
that guy with the red hat, We're going to aim
(23:03):
at him. And you know, so that's why the Collies
are so important. They can take all that information and
and and do it the right way and the players
just kind of hitting the shot and committing to it. Hey, Brett,
can we talk about your family's baseball connection? Absolutely? Yeah,
gone back, of course, your grandfather, George. He covered the
Dodgers through a lot of years, the prime of Sandy
(23:24):
Kofax's career, and then became an executive with the Angels.
And Ross Newhan once had a note about George letter
called him Anaheim's answer to Bill Veck. He was quite
the promoter back in the day the Angels weren't drawing
too well, And specifically, I remember the story in nineteen
Brett when Um he brought into people from Rockwell International,
(23:47):
the military space company, and had them rig up a
measuring device to measure Nolan Ryan's fastball, and he had
the fans show up and guess what the top velocity
would be that night, and they did pack the joint.
That night became a famous night where Nolan Ryan was
clocked as hardest pitch was actually in the ninth inning
of a game in which he threw up more than
a hundred and fifty pitches. It was one hundred point
(24:09):
eight miles per hour, and a lot of people think
they were actually measuring the ball closer to home plate
than actual out of the hand, so it was probably
much higher than that. But yeah, give me an idea
when Brett, I'm sure you've heard all those stories about
him and and um your connection to baseball, the family's connection,
how important that was for you growing up. Yeah, definitely
a big baseball family, starting with my grandpa George. He
(24:31):
passed away before I was born, but my dad and
my uncle's have have told me all the stories and
they're just huge huge baseball guys. So they're gonna be
jealous I get to hang out with you too, and
I'm you know, I'm the golfer guy. But somehow they're
gonna be like, how did this guy get to hang
out with you guys? But yeah, the during Sandy Kofax.
(24:52):
So Sandy Kofax obviously, Um, My my dad was a big,
big guy and he was a picture. Um he played
a little bit after after high school and in college
and stuff. But same shoes that some Sandy used to
give his cleats to my grandpa and my dad would
wear them. Um, they're you know, left handed pitchers. So
(25:12):
I think my dad has like one filling Sandy Kofax's
shoes literally literally, yeah, exactly. So Um, and then they
got some Nolan Ryan stuff too, from when he was
on the Angels. Um, so a bunch of Sandy Kofax
and Nolan Ryan stuff when I was growing up. That's
so cool. So give me an idea. As long as
we're talking about baseball and golf here, Um, we haven't
(25:35):
heard your scattering report on your latest client here, Joe Madden. Uh,
we hear a lot about baseball swings. Maybe that's not
good for golf, So break him down for us, kind, buddy,
be kind. Yeah no, later on, later on, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
he's got no excuses. Now he's got all his new
clubs and he's hitting his driver too sixty and he's
(25:56):
got this uh, got this new seven when he's hitting
two hundred yards up in the air. So there's no
reason why he can't be shooting underpar. So new clubs
and he hits it plenty far and so no no excuses,
and I think we've got some under par scores coming soon.
It's it's all about accuracy. You can't snap that anymore.
(26:18):
You've been right here. It's all about accuracy. I've been
making a lot better contact. He helped me a lot,
but gosh, it's just my setup. Bred. I still I
still got to get set up. I know we did
the thing with the front foot open step back a
little bit, but I've been just off to the right
a little bit with my irons. I got to get
him back on task. But the overall contact has been
a whole lot better. Absolutely. Yeah. We had a fun
(26:40):
day out there, and we used the track Man with Joe,
which is one of the probably that the most used
tool that all the PGA Tour guys are using it
and it does everything. There's it has so much information
and most of the guys are guys at least, and
I think most of the PGA Tour players use it
mostly for distance, and that's what Um, Joe and I
mostly used it for it, and it's a great tool
(27:02):
for that. You know, the carry distance, that told all distance,
the height that spin and um. A perfect example is
Joe just got new clubs. So when you're getting new clubs,
you want to figure out how far it goes. And
so you're not you're not guessing, it's telling you exactly
how far it's going. So, yeah, we had a fun
day out there and he was doing good. He can
move it. Wow. You know, hey, listen, I don't know
if you got him on the force plates or not,
(27:22):
but I see them around baseball now. I mean, you
talk about hitting in baseball, probably true in golf is
done from the ground up. Give me an idea of
what what force plates have done from an instructional point
of view, Britt, Yeah, it's I mean, it's crazy, Um,
the stuff they're measuring now, even you know, like how
much weight I was on the left foot versus the
(27:44):
right foot and address and you know a lot of
guys you know, actually there's a slight pressure shift to
the left for righty on on the way back, and
then you know it gets loaded into the right foot
and um that the map like the way the way
that it shows you where the pressure is, you know,
not just left or right, but you know he'll toe
inside outside the whole foot, um so. And and that's
(28:06):
that's gotten very popular, especially with the whole distancing right, Like,
the better you already be able to use the ground,
um and the more energy you're getting in off the ground,
you know, the more speed you're gonna be able to generate.
And that's obviously you know, it's kind of you know,
they have it all figured out. Now. If you can
hit it ten yards farther, you know, it's like a
shot around, you know, on average. So the force plates
(28:30):
enabling you to use the ground and get more speed,
you're you're at the highest level with all that money online.
It's it's a useful tool for sure, Joe, have you
taken advantage of then, not just because we gotta do,
Because that's what he was trying to get across to me.
You know, get away from my shoulders primarily when I
come over the top. It's all shoulders that really got
to get the bottom half involved better and my finish
(28:50):
it really did that. I was focusing on the finish
so much better when I really get to that particular
position and don't over the top. I want to just
shoot myself. I mean it's I hate over the top.
I hate off the toe. I hate the hard hook,
and that's the next thing. It's getting rid of that
for me. And it's my the way I finished the
swing and utilizing the ground, just like he's talking about
(29:11):
those those that's my focus right now. So when we
get that played out there, but next time in Mount
Town down in Long Beach, I definitely would like to
give that a go. Yeah, it was interesting. A lot
of like what we did with you right was like
less careful, and we didn't we didn't have the force
plates with us, so we we didn't we couldn't measure it.
But like for example, Joe making a way bigger turn
on the way back and the way he kind of
(29:32):
set up his lower body to do that that it
would have changed on the force plates for sure, like
without changing like like let's add more weight on your
right foot in the back swing. We didn't say that,
but he definitely was just by making a bigger turn
as left slowders working more over to his right side,
and so there's definitely more more weight shift going on
now for him, for sure. I'm going right to the
(29:52):
range after we get done today, by the way, so
play play, play the more range today. It sounds good. Hey,
let's take a quick break when we get back. We've
got more with Rent Letter stick around. Welcome back to
the Book of Joe podcast and our guests Brett Letter
(30:14):
or Brett Um. I know, listen, I enjoyed golf as
much as anybody as well. Question I get asked a
lot from people who maybe your casual like, what difference
does the golf ball make? You've been around so long
and taught so many different people. Explain to people why
golf balls are not all the same. Yeah, the golf
ball is a huge deal, um, and they're all they're
(30:35):
all different a lot of it. The best, especially the
best players in the world are they get used to
one right and they they know what it does there
in this win they can trust that. For example, Um,
Patrick Cantley is using the two thousand nineteen pro V
one xs and Tyler's comes out with a new prov
one um every two years. UM, so like that he
(30:58):
skipped the prov one accent and it so and obviously
right there shouldn't be much a difference, but it's a
little bit of a difference to the point when he's
pressing UM out in Long Beach, he's got his golf ball,
so he doesn't even practice with the probi when I
just gets it's a little bit different. For example, like
hit his spins a little less. The two thousand nineteen
(31:20):
does a few hundred RPMs, which translates he he hits
that golf ball two or two yards further, probably with
his irons than uh x um. But yeah, there, it's
interesting there, you know, summer launching higher, lower, more spin,
less spin. For for the best guys in the world,
a lot of it's the feel. Um. You know, they
(31:42):
might try a new golf ball and hit one put
with it, and then it's out. It doesn't matter how
how good it's going to perform. If it if it
doesn't feel right to them, then then it's out. You know.
You might try to talk and into our seeing you know,
club companies or golf ball companies. You no, look how
good this is. It's flying farther and higher, and the
(32:02):
spin is perfect and you know, but it doesn't feel right,
um so, and and it's changed a lot over the years.
It's pretty amazing the technology, how how fast it's coming
off with the driver, and how good it is around
the green still that soft feeling, being able to get
a lot of spin around the greens. I was. I
was told to use the bridge Stone ball when I
went to the paying performance approving grounds. They did everything. Man,
(32:26):
they they break you down in every possible way, the
the lie of your club. I'm green with the paying irons,
the shaft on my driver, and they set me up
with a new putter, which is a straight shafted putter
with no kind of angler ben in it. And my god,
I mean, I've been putting incredibly better just with that
one particular putter. But like you're talking about, they they
(32:47):
said I should have a bridgetone I based on my
swing and swing speed I guess, and everything else. It's
incredible the way all this is broken. And actually when
I hit the bridge Stone I could actually draw the
ball more readily or easily than I can with the titleist.
I don't know why. I look, they're bigger dimples, but
all this little stuff I guess, uh it does play
in then I'm listening. I'm not good enough to worry
about that, but it's interesting how it's all considered. What's
(33:08):
interesting just to follow up on that, it's not just
I mean, Joe, you talked about your your sticks. And
I'll go back again to the baseball parallel and talk
to Nolan Arronado, who, after playing in Colorado gets traded
to the Cardinals. Obviously, it's much more of a pitcher's
park than than in Denver, and he felt like he
could hit the ball the same exit vel and it
(33:28):
wasn't traveling as far in St. Louis makes sense, right,
So he said, I have to figure out a way
to get a little higher exit velocity. So what he did,
and this has really become really very popular around the
baseball now, is he went to a bat fitting performance center,
just as you would as Joe did, to find the
right clubs to hit, and he wound up getting a
(33:49):
bat that was essentially the same size and weight, but
this different distribution. It has a like a hockey puck
style counterweight at the bottom where the knob is. It's
a huge knob and he felt like he got the
bat through the zone faster. Um. That has really taken
root in baseball as well. Again, another parallel between golf
and baseball. So, Brent, when I mentioned the golf ball,
(34:13):
I'm sure that it's probably exponentially greater. To make sure
you have the right set of sticks. Yeah, and they
definitely go together, right, So you know, you might be
using this golf ball and it's perfect for you, and
then you go get a new driver and maybe now
you gotta get a new golf ball as well. Um,
different spin right to a big part of it, especially
(34:35):
um with the driver. So basically, you know, the higher
you launch it that for distance purposes, the the less
spin you're gonna have. So um, the less spin you want. Sorry,
the higher you launch it, the less spin you want. Um.
That's kind of thing that everyone's trying now is like
that that high launch, low spin. Someone that likes to
see it lower. You know, maybe they're gonna launch it
(34:56):
at ten degrees instead of thirteen degrees with the driver
that that person is going to need more spin and
you know, right, and it kind of goes back to
telling them what's better. Wrong. You know, some of the
best players in the world like to see it come
out lower, so they they're probably going to be more
likely to use a golf ball that spins more because
they like to see that lower trajectory. But but you're
(35:16):
totally right. Getting everything dialed in and and having the
golf ball work with the golf clubs and especially the
driver is super important. Why are the ladies so accurate
with the irons? I watched them on TV. They never
miss a green man, they never missed a green and regulation.
Oh you're right. Um, I'm not sure I know why
(35:37):
they are, but I agree with you. They hit it
so good. They don't miss very many fairways, and from
a repetition standpoint, it's impressive. Um. In general, they don't
curve it very much. They tend to hit it pretty straight,
and it's like watching iron Byron out there on the range.
But when you got some of the best ladies in
the world, it's it's as repetitive as any of the
(35:57):
best guys I've seen. And that the Ladies Tour has
gotten a lot better and it's been fun to watch.
I'm super happy for the them and um, their their
schedules are better, their purses are better, and uh, it's
gonna I think it's gonna be a good couple of
years for the LPGA tour. The thing I see and
quickly is that effort level seems to be non existent.
They're so casual with their swing in a sense, and
(36:19):
their tempo is incredible. Joe, I was just about to
say the same thing to my untrained eye. It's all
about tempo. It's just very rhythmatic. Nobody is too fast,
and obviously you know the court as well. They have
what to me looks like very long swings. But the
tempo is just beautiful. It's really really impressive to watch
them up close. Hey, Joe, now it's time for our segment.
(36:41):
It is a reading from the Book of Joe Brett.
When we get a guest on here, we like to
say that you can pick any page in our book,
you'll find something that's interesting. And so to put that
to the test, we have our guests to pick a
random number between one and three, dred and sixty eight
and we'll dive in and see what's on that page.
So you're on the tea box Brett, it's your call
(37:03):
giving me number any number eighty four. I don't think
you want to eighty four in your scorecard, Joe. You
want to do better than that. So but I guess
that's that's three trips to the bunkers. That's fairway bunk
Any reason why you picked that number, just that's kind
of my go to just that year I was born in.
(37:24):
So now you know all my all my past codes. Uh.
This is Joe looking back on Game seven of the
sixteen World Series and how you you kind of go
in with a plan, and it doesn't mean you have
to be wedded to it, but you start out with
a plan and let the game dictate where you want
to go. So this is basically about your bullpen usage
(37:46):
Joe in Game seven. Again, before the game, you know
there are all these numbers created, matrix numbers, whatever. And
of course, when you don't know your guy or you
don't know the guy you're facing, sometimes these do become
more important. But if you know your guy and you've
seen this other team often enough, easily could make your
decisions pregame and during the game based on what you've
(38:08):
been seeing. Void of any of the kind of this information.
It doesn't really matter at that point. I know what
I know, I know what I see, I know who
my picture is right now, I know what that hitter
is like. I know what he's been like more recently
because I've researched that. So you then make the decision. Now,
to me, that's gut. That is not analytics. It's just
(38:30):
based on information. That's normal stuff that's been going on
for the last how many years, I don't know, forever.
Managers have been making these kind of decisions based on
that forever. And that's the bullpen. How about that bread
that sounds like John Cook wrote that, Yeah exactly. Yeah,
and you guys, I started the book. I haven't finished it, yeah,
but I've really enjoyed it so far. You guys have
(38:51):
done a great job with it. It's a it's a
good read for sure, Thanks buddy. Yeah, I mean that's
the bullpen part of it. Um, And it's it's kind
of cool to be compared to John Cook. I agree.
There's I've talked about feel being the gift of experience.
You have to go through so many hours of doing
something to be able to I think comfortably say or
(39:12):
say with confidence. I felt that or I feel that
it's something I saw, so I went with it was
my gut. If you haven't put in the time, if
you haven't earned the right to say, I I felt it. Um,
I really believe that. So for me, I believe I've
earned the right to do. I know I have, and
the hours have been put in, the different situations have
been recognized, the different conversations have been had, So I
(39:33):
get it. And that's what I'm saying earlier. I think
the combination of old school news school being in school,
you try to combine everything at your disposal and try
to then make come to the right conclusions or make
the best decisions. Yeah. Yeah, you talk a lot about
feel in the book, and I totally agree. I'm always
asking the player, you know, even on the range good
(39:54):
or bad, what does that feel like? What does that
feel like? And and I think, you know, even if
you're trying to make a mechanical change, you know, and
there it's got a it's got a it's got to
be a feel. You know, you've got it's gotta they've
gotta feel something. And and we're always trying to you know,
what what are we gonna feel in order to get
this where we want it right on, Joe, Doesn't that
always go back to what you say too as a
(40:16):
hitting instructor. Once that player comes back to you and
says I feel it, yeah, then you know you've arrived
at something. Yeah. That with my my litmus test there
was you know, you're you're observing, you're standing off to
the side always well I always try to watch from
the open side, and you're trying to get a point across,
get a point across, and all of a sudden he says,
I felt it. And if he says that at the
(40:37):
time when you're observing, he's doing the right thing. Now
you have something. So if he's saying to you, I
feel something. I felt that, you you see that it's
not necessarily right or correct, as you just know from
the years of experience. You you take that and then
you still try to work with But when you get
I felt it, and the observation is like, right on,
now you've gotten something, You've gotten somewhere, and now this
(40:58):
guy's really making some progress at that point. Yeah, exactly.
Sometimes I get most excited about a miss they might
have over and over and we're trying to figure it out,
and then finally they kind of leave one out to
the right or whatever it might be, and there like, oh,
I felt that, Like I felt what we're talking about,
and it's like boom now now now we're onto it.
(41:18):
Lest thing for me, brother, this is kind of literally
out of left field. You're a left handed golfer. Obviously
most of the people you work with are going to
be right handed. Is that an advantage, mirror image disadvantage
or no factor at all. It's probably close to no
factor at all. I'd say, if anything, it's an advantage.
I kind of like standing in front and doing the
(41:39):
mirror image thing. Especially a short game. It's kind of
nice just to you know, left handed right handed, you're
kind of there's five balls on the ground and you
can kind of face each other versus when I when
I'm teaching another lefty right it's a little a little
more awkward. Um, but I'd say it doesn't really matter.
But I'm definitely more used to right handers now, you know,
(42:00):
So if you're talking about you know, I should probably
say lead on and more instead of you know, left arm.
I catched myself sometimes with a lefty. If if we're
getting a lead arm field, I might say like left
arm them. I oh sorry, I meant you know, even
though I'm lefty, I'm just so used to write is now. Yeah,
I think the mirror image things works out pretty well. Cool. Well,
we really enjoyed this, bread. I gotta tell you, I
(42:22):
learned so much listening to you. Um My biggest takeaway
probably is that the next time I played golf with Joe,
He's gonna have to give me more strokes. I hope,
so yeah, I hope, I hope so too. Thanks again
for joining us. It's been blast yeah, a blastom big
fan of both of you, so thank you very much
and keep up the good work. Brett. We'll see you
when I get back out there again. Thank you for
(42:43):
a couple of days ago. My best to all the
boys there. And uh one of the best kept secrets
in the West Coast in the city of Long Beaches,
Virginia country Club. It's a tilling half designed course. It's
absolutely gorgeous and I love I love hitting out there.
So see you back. They want to get back in town.
Absolutely looking forward to it. Thanks buddy, be Well. Brett.
All right, thanks guys. Well, that was a really interesting
(43:06):
dive into let's faces. More than golf about teaching, right,
I just I can't get enough of that. Especially you're
talking about someone who's worked with some of the better
golfers in the world, right, I mean, and you get
out there to hang with them. He's a younger fella,
full of energy. He does keep things very simple, very positive,
although very uh straightforward. It was a couple of times
(43:26):
you had to tell me I stunk the other day,
which was absolutely accurate, and I love that. I love
to be told, um, exactly what somebody as an instructor.
As a pupil, I need to know exactly what the
instructor is seeing, and he's very good at that. So
I want to get back out there and see him again.
Like I said to Virginia Country Club, wow, um, it's
a tilling half designed very similar to my place in Pennsylvania,
(43:47):
The Valley Country Club another tilling half course in Sugarlow, Pennsylvania.
So there are some similarities between the two places, which
really is also a big draw for me too. Honesty
without compassion is cruelty. I think I've heard that before. Yeah, exactly,
But just good, don't worry about me, just just get
me right between the eyeballs. I could handle it. Hey,
we didn't even mention. Yeah, if you're into golf fantasy
(44:09):
leagues on the LPG eight tour, LILYA. Voo he's worked with.
She was a rookie in twenty nineteen and has such
a hard time. She only made one cut ninth starts.
She thought about quitting the game of golf, and now
she has really come on and she's a name to
look forward to in three He's very proud of that.
He was. We were talking about it the other day.
I think she's like thirty seven thirty eight now in
(44:29):
the world. Um had a tough start coming out of college.
I believe I was missing cuts, wasn't playing well. Then
all of a sudden, Um, I did a gig last
night for Brandon guy are on mental skills in baseball.
I guess you just Um started to believe that she'd
belong there, and she was able to breathe in the moment,
and she started to find her confidence again. And now
she's definitely on the uptake, and he really, uh, he's
(44:51):
very strong on her right now and regarding where she's
at and where she's gonna end up in a in
a very near future. Yeah, I got a kick out
of all the comparisons and and parallels between golf and baseball.
As you know, Joe, when we talked about this, A
lot of of technologies have come out of the golf
world and into the baseball world. But doesn't it still
come down to the power of the teacher. Of course? Um,
(45:12):
I mean, of course that the overwriting talent is always
going to be number one, But a really good teacher
is definitely going to extract the most out of you.
And um, I could again, I could talk about myself
on a personal level. You whenever you are being instructed,
it's got to be simple, it's got to be concise,
it's gotta make sense. It's got to be something I
could hold onto and not have to overthink. It cannot
(45:33):
overburden my mind. Uh, those guys are the best teachers.
And we talked about visualization. I mean, it's not just
about mechanics. Everybody wants mechanics. Physical mechanics are the easiest
part of any sport to teach. The mental mechanics are
the most difficult. Those are the ones that require redundancy
and the ones that are gonna wear you out. But
the ones that are going to make the difference. So uh,
(45:55):
as a really good instructor, you have to be good,
be both good physically and mentally regarding how you're going
to teach mechanics of the game. And for me, the
overwriting factor the part that really makes you an excellent instructor.
Instructors to be able to teach the mental mechanics. Also, well, hey,
we've got an upcoming exciting event you should know about.
(46:15):
It's the Savannah Book Festival. Joe and I will be
at the Savannah Book Festival to make our presentation on
the Book of Joe. You're more than welcome to join.
It's a huge weekend in Savannah. Many different authors will
be there talking about their books, doing readings, taking questions.
It's a great place to listen to not just us,
(46:36):
but many other authors. So check it out Saturday, February eighteenth,
in Savannah, Georgia. Looking forward to that, Joe, the same here, Tommy.
It's going to be quite an experience for me. This
is something you're kind of used to. This is uh,
fish out of water for me, but I'm looking forward
to it. It's a great place to get your book signed.
We will be signing books at the event, So put
that on your calendar. A couple of good golf courses nearby,
(46:58):
from what I understand, so it'd be a good a
good couple of days. I almost feel like, you know,
when you have that really good around you're walking off
that eighteenth grain. Man, that's that's such a good feeling.
That's the way I feel right now. So on our
way off the green, you've got something to take us
out here. I think it applies to UM a bit.
I follow different people on Twitter. I fall Hemingway stuff
and I'm Jack hero Act. I picked them up the
(47:18):
other day and this is like tis fits into everything,
and it fits into an overarching concept of doing simple better.
But he wrote, one day I will find the right
words and they will be simple. Jack Heiro wat wow.
I mean we all want complicated, convoluted answers. We're not
even realizing we can't hold on to that. When you're
competing with things get quick, with things get tough, you
(47:41):
need simplicity to deal with and you need that one
nugget back here that that that helps or aid you
in that very hot moment. So one day I will
find the right words and they will be simple. Mr
Kiroac beautiful and beautiful that is that sounds like the
backbone of teaching. There you go, man, well said, See
you next time. Joe, I'm straight. Thanks, brother, I shall h.
(48:05):
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