January 29, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci discuss the 100th Baseball Writer's Dinner and the history of the event. The evening highlighted the achievements of Shohei Ohtani and Aaron Judge amongst others. Tom gave out the final award and explains how he ended up sharing the stage with Grimace! We explore a few rule changes going into effect for next season before highlighting some Winter baseball news. Plus, what does Joe think about Pete Carroll coming back to the NFL as head coach of the Las Vegas Raiders?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You have found once again the Book of Joe with
me Tom Verducci and say hello to Joe Madden.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
How you doing today, Joe?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I am well, Tommy, how are you? Let of football
been going on? Florida has become Florida again after all
this weird weather, so I'm enjoying that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But everything's well done here. Yeah, I know what that means.
The golf clubs are back out.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah, last three.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Days I've taken today af it was like four days
in a row. I got a good run coming up.
I got a couple of my race buddies on Thursday
tomorrow going to Avola with Michael, the Michaels and Randy
Stewart's and we're gonna hang out over there. But then
the weekend is the money games at Saint Pete. So
I've got a full calendar.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right now, all right, sharply up that game, yes he Hey, listen,
we got a ton to get to here. I want
to talk about rule changes in Major League Baseball is
always interesting. An interesting hire in the NFL I want
to talk about. But I want to start with a
tradition in baseball that's actually older than the Hall of Fame.
(01:15):
On Saturday night, the New York chapter of the Baseball Writers'
Association of America, we held our one hundredth annual dinner.
One hundred dinners, and listen, this is a dinner that's
they've always given out the major awards MVP, Cy Young,
Rookie of the Year, Manager of the Year.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You go back in the day. You had Babe Ruth
at the dinner.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mannle, Joe, I remember one time Mickey
Mannle was at the dinner. It was the year that
jose Kanseika was honored with the MVP and went forty
forty that year and then got another award. And after
he was done speaking, he walked back to his seat,
thought about something, remembered something, walked back to the microphone,
and he said to the crowd, if I hadn't known
(01:56):
you people make such a big deal out of forty forty,
I'd have done it multiple times. I went back and
sat down. Have you ever been to dinner.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Joe, I've been invited, I have not.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I was in Italy, I was in Europe twice when
it occurred, and the other time got snowed out. Absolutely,
some guys did make it, but I was in Florida
and there was a really huge snowstorm. But yeah, twice
in Italy when it occurred, and once a pretty big snowstorm.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Heard a lot about it. Obviously was honored.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I had I did you know my via the video
kind of a thing, but have not actually attended in person.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Speaking of which, the MVPs show, Hey Otani and Aaron
Judge both could not make it. Both sent in acceptances
via video. Tani obviously is out in the LA area.
They've been affected by the wildfires, and both Otani and Judge,
by the way, are expecting their first children, Judges any
(02:53):
day now, and that's why he could not make it.
Can you imagine those two guys with dad power, Joe well,
Tani and Judge.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
High expectations around the Little League whatever they're going to
participate in. Now, it's gonna be interesting to see that.
I'm happy for both these guys. They're both wonderful. I mean,
I don't know Aaron nearly as well. Obviously has some
really good conversation with him once on the field of
New York and of course show.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
So, yeah, I wish them nothing but the best.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And yeah, the devastating fires and all this really awful
things that are going on in regards to the catastrophes.
It's really awful to see, so wish them all the
best and trying to get getting themselves back on their feet.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, both of them gave really heartfelt, very impressive as
you might think acceptance speeches.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Show Hey, really really impressed me.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Besides obviously showing tremendous concern for the people in the
area have been affected by the wildfires, he actually showed
really genuine heartfeld concern for the animals. He talked about
what are the pets or the wild animals who have
lost their homes and habitats. I mean that's show Hey Otani,
he's got a heart of gold.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
He does again, people have no idea. You watch him,
and you know, I think when he really comes across,
if you really want to see how he is, he'll
pick up a piece of paper in front of the
mount and put in his back pocket, or he'll acknowledge
a player that's done something well versus.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Him and gives them a little bit of a smile.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He has a joy about the day, and I think
that reaches into different parts of his life and it is.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's just he's just a different animal.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Man speaking of animals, he just a different cat, and
he is, he's all of that.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's not nothing. He's contrived with this guy.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
For anybody that believes any of this his actions are
contrived or he's attempting to be ingratiating, he's not.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
He's just being showed raised that way.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Again, I've never met his parents, but I think that'd
be pretty awesome to see what they're like, because he's
truly reflection of how we grew up, who we grew
up with, and all of the above. He's just he's different.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, that's a great point, because I think he is
a reflection of how he was raised and the job
his parents did, because he is so respectful. And I'm
with you on I love the way he keeps the
dugout clean.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He really does. I mean, yeah, if you're around, if.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Anybody's around a Major League Baseball dugout, guys just throw
things everything. You know, no one has any concern about
the cleanliness of the place, and they figure somebody else
is going to clean it up. And sometimes the same
thing happens in the clubhouse, not show. Hey, if he
sees a gum wrapper on the dugout floor, he's going
to pick it up and put in the garbage. I
was raised the right way. Also impressed and Chris Sale
picking up his first cy Young Award's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's his first, Joe. I mean, he's been close before.
His stuff is off the charts. Great.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We all know he's come back from multiple injuries. I
was really cool to see Chris there speaking of parents,
acknowledging his parents, his own family, very heartfelt speech in
which he talked about really part of his toughness came
from his mom, and he said there was a rule
in the house that unless you had a broken bone
(05:55):
or were bleeding, don't come to me with any complaints.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
That's Chris.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I acknowledge that his mom was the one who got
kind of that vibe going in the Sale family.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Is he from Hazelton?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You know he's from Lakeland, Florida, but he does have
that kind of Hazelton vibe.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh my god, Well, you know, it's wonderful to hear
all that stuff. And yes, gosh, when you first saw him,
you know, when he first came on on the scene.
You thought there would be multiples, right, I mean, it's
a Randy Johnson kind of a guy. Is big, intimidating,
great stuff seemed to be resilient, all the different qualities
you're looking for, and like you're saying, it takes like
(06:33):
a kind of a strange moment that he eventually gets
to this point where he's acknowledging this way. But really
exemplary stuff comes from what's the name of the college
down here and on the west coast of Florida.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's a Gulf coast, golf coast.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, which is kind of you know, all these unusual
tidbits about him, but stuff is intimidating. I don't really
know him, but I'm very happy for him because you know,
he had he had gone through some stuff more recently
and he came out the other side in a good way.
So congratulations, he.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Says, much of a competitor as I've ever been around.
Quick story on Chris Sale. He has never shaken off
a sign in his career. He does not do any
game planning. He puts the entire game in the hands
of his catcher, and he learned this from Mark Burley.
Mark Burley never shook off a sign, so's he's in
(07:24):
go mo the entire time on trust in his catcher.
Does Chris Sale all that work about hitter's weaknesses. He
leads it up to the catcher, sticks with his strength
and just follows the lead of the catcher. And he
the way he pitches, he pitches with pedal to the metal.
He's in go mode all the time because of that.
Very aggressive and Burley Burley would just frustrate the heck guy.
(07:46):
He pitched the perfect game against one of the teams.
They managed the Rays, you know, just never threw hard,
but had this He beat you with his mind as
much as he did with his arm.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I like the idea.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I mean again, sometimes we hear all this stuff, and
there's a lot of guys that are actually like that,
that want minimal information. They the ability to stay in
the moment, react to what you're saying. There's nothing wrong
with really following a catcher that really does his homework
and does a good job with this. And I saw
it in Chicago and was talking to Mike Borsello on
the phone as they boards. He was the game planner there,
(08:20):
did a great job and the combination of him and
the catcher was you felt pretty confident about the plan
being in place, and then it frees up the pitcher
see target throw baseball. I mean, that's so different than
a hitter or seaball hit ball and get rid of
all this. You know that we get so inundated with
information and thoughts and primarily mechanical thoughts.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
You don't need them.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You want the mechanical thoughts like when you're throwing a
side piece. You want the mechanical thoughts and batting practice,
working off the tea with your hitting coach, et cetera.
But it's really wise to train yourself once you get
into competition, to really get out of that mindset right
there and just get back and like you just said, competing.
And that's probably why he was able to compete so well,
because he wasn't inundata with all these different thoughts. I
(09:03):
like that I show him. If you took a real
poll of a lot of these really great pitchers, a
lot of it was see catcher throw a ball. Now
there's some that really did want to be more involved
in the play calling.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And that's fine too.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And I've talked about James Shield Shields used to call
his own game. That got to the point he had
so many pitches and he'd get frustrated with the catcher.
I said, James, what do you call your own game?
Like developed a set of signs with our catchers and
just call your own game.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And he did. So.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
There's different ways to get this done. But when you
get get in a moment and keep your head clear
and just compete. Not used enough, where it's not used enough,
that's greatness. Sitting in the waiting room right there.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, and along those same lines, Trek Schoolball, the American
League Cy Young Award winner. It's interesting we had two
lefty cy Young winners, both won the Triple Crowns in
their leagues. He gave from it its credit to Jake Rogers,
who caught every single one of his starts. So there's
as much as we have all this information there, Joe,
you know this, there's something between the pitcher and the catcher,
(10:01):
and if it's there as a manager and coach, I
think you acknowledge that and don't mess it up.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
As as a former catcher.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Nothing more gratifying after you know you could go for
four for five, What doesn't matter after catching a win
and truly having your guys, your pitchers acknowledge, come up,
they want to go get a beer afterwards, talk about it,
and you just you just replay the entire game both
you know, maybe the play calling, the pitch execution.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Just whatever moments that happened in the game. It's great.
It's great.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
So when a pitcher or pitching staff acknowledges a catcher,
while highest praise possible that a catcher can to have
bestowed upon him, more than anything. And again it's for years.
I mean, the catching position when it hits, it's a
really great position. But a lot of guys have hung
around because they know how to handle their pitching staff,
(10:52):
they know how to communicate with them, and they are
difference makers.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So I had the honor presenting the last award of
the evening, which is called the Jill DiMaggio Toast of
the Town Award. We as the New York chapter the BBWAA.
Every year we picked.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
The one team player person doesn't matter, could be executive
who literally is the toast of the town, someone who's
most recognizable for what they've accomplished in the year. And
in this case, the winner was the twenty twenty four
New York Mets. As I mentioned at their intro, Joe,
they really made baseball fun again.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, they started twenty two and thirty three.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Only two teams in history had ever made the playoffs
in a full season starting that bad, that deep into
a season, and they came back. And what I loved
about that team was they played with so much joy
and together this and had fun.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They really had fun.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
As I said at the dinner, we like to hold
this conceit in our heads that these guys playing Major
League baseball are playing the same game that we played
as kids in Little league, in the backyard and the street,
the stoop, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Of course it's not true. It's very different.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But we like to think that that's part of it,
is that you're playing for the joy of the game.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And I think the Mets show that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I actually wastage because they brought it a special
guest before me, Joe, and that was Grimace.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Oh really okay, which.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Was perfect because you know, you think about the fun
the Mets had. Obviously, the Mets brought him back or
brought him out there on his birthday to throw out
the first pitch, and they ran off seven straight wins
when this season was looking bleak in June, and that
became one of the many memes for the Mets throughout
the season.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
So it's pretty cool to have Grimace up there. You
a big Grimace fan.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, yes, I mean I love all of that kind
of stuff, you know, all the different things that I've
done in the past, and an attempt to create the
fun and the joy within a group, and it's it's
kind of interesting how joy comes packaged in different ways,
right in the form of a Grimace. But yeah, I
love all that stuff. We've talked about this also. That's
(12:50):
the one component of the game, and I've talked to
guys all the time, the joy, the fun, just the
pure pleasure of doing this.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
A lot of that's been subtracted.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It has, I'm just quite frankly, just being very honest,
it just has. I mean, when you get a group
like that, Francisco Lindor has a lot to do with that,
his obvious joy for the game. But then how well
he speaks about it and then he goes and he
backs it up and he does it in a very
professional way.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, that's that's the part. I think.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
You know, more teams should really pay attention to that
kind of an attitude. I mean, the Dodgers obviously demonstrated that,
but they just have such overwhelming talent.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
But I love that component.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I love a Grimace turning into a smile, and then
I love the idea of having fun and really not
being afraid to put it out there somehow and try
to elicit in different ways because it's it's a difference maker.
There's enough pressure on these guys every day, whether it's
self inflicted or coming from other directions, to to not
really have a sense of joy, almost like when you
(13:48):
first started playing the game, when you're six, seven, eight
years of age. That's that's part that I am really
attuned to, and those are the kind of things that
I really wanted to capture and make sure that my
guys felt because I do believe it's a difference maker.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I agree, and I think that's when players are at
their best, when there is a component of joy to it.
We've talked about freedom right as part of that as well.
But here's a major philosophical question for you, Joe, who
is older mister met or Grimace?
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Who's old? I mean the actual who's inside the costumes?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Are No.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
No, the actual character, Well, you're taking kids hearts here, they're.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Real guys inside the costume Grimace.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I'm gonna go with grim because it's not obvious.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
No, the obvious answer is. The obvious answer is mister Met. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Mister Met was introduced in nineteen sixty three. At the time,
it was just a cartoon character, not an actual mascot
like on yearbooks, programs, and scorecards. The comic artist by
the name of al aviisan He who worked on Captain
America in the nineteen thirties and forties. He contributed to
the design of mister Met and then when Chase Stadium
opened in nineteen sixty four, there mister Mett, the first
(15:05):
live mascot in Major League Baseball. Lady Met, by the way,
appeared in sixty five, and she became Missus Met in
the nineteen seventies after they got married. Just in case
you like your social history of mister Mett, so Grimace
comes along in nineteen seventy one, so he's eight years
younger than mister Met. At the time, he was called
(15:26):
Evil Grimace, and he would swipe cups from McDonald land
to prevent anyone from having their milkshakes or sodas. He
had four arms and inadvertently he was scaring kids. So
mcdous went back to the drawing board and said, we
got to change this dude. And they made him to
this sweetheart of a blob who only wanted to drink
(15:48):
milkshakes and hang out with Ronald McDonald, so that he
became very popular. So his birthday was that when they
brought him out supposedly for the throughout the first pitch.
So June twelfth is his birthday of nineteen seventy one.
By the way, Ryan Klesco has the exact same birthday.
I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying I'm not ever
(16:09):
seeing the two of them in the same room together,
Ryan Kleskow and Grimace.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
There you go, you're back. You got my my No,
I can't go back to the person in the costume theory.
You never know, you never know.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But Joe, you are a master of this with Tampa
Bay Chicago. You name it lightening the mood. I mean,
it is part of the job of the grind of
the season, and you know, I think Carlos Mendoza did
a great job with it. You know, Rookie manager, especially
a team that starts out twenty two and thirty three.
He allowed those things to produce energy, not to take
(16:39):
anything away from preparation. Obviously, never you never want that
to happen. It didn't, but I think Carlos Mendoza really
set the right time. I was very impressed with him
as the first year managers. Team starts zero to five,
twenty two and thirty three, it's in New York, a
lot of pressure and expectations. He was a big part
of this team being able to play so relaxed, especially
playing uphill for most of the season.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I like when he talks.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I've liked from the first I watched or listened to
the press conference when he was introduced last year before
the season, whatever that was. I liked the way he speaks.
It's not contrived, it's not scripted. He's just telling you
based on his years of experience. He's one of these
I should just say, young old guys. I mean, he
knows what he knows, and I really liked that about him.
(17:23):
So when they were struggling, he did he absolutely did
not push the panic button. Again, I was following this
pretty closely. He did not come down hard. It was
not all these team meetings, was all these no proclamations,
made no kind of anything. He was just stuck with
this game plan and the guys really reacted.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
To it well.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Then eventually obviously started turning in the other direction and
they became playoff teams. So I do I like the
way he speaks. He is a great representative of how
things had been done in the past, regarding earning your
stripes and getting an opportunity to manage, going from the
bench coach with the Yankees, and all the minor league
time that he put in. So when he talks, I
believe he knows what he knows.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Good stuff. Joe, Hey, we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I mentioned we've got rule changes coming up in Major
League Baseball this year, and we're going to dive into those.
They may seem like small deals, but you need to
know what has changed in MLB in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
We'll do that right after this. Welcome back to the
Book of Joe. Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
This didn't give a whole lot of attention, and it
does seem like minor but I think anytime there's a
rule change, you know this as a manager, he has
to stay on top of it. The first rule change
is the violation of the shift rule and the penalty
for it. It used to be that you could take the
result of the play or it was an automatic ball
on the batter. This is in case say the shortstop
(18:55):
is playing on the right side of the infield, or
vice versa. For the second basement, if they lined up
on the wrong side of the field, they changed it,
and this makes total sense. Now the result of the play,
you can take that or the batter gets a free base.
So instead of an automatic ball, the batter's on base
and the fielder who was at a position is charged
(19:15):
with an error. The batter does not get a time
at bet. Seems obvious to me. Listen, I've never seen
a violation of the rule. I don't even know if
it's happened, but I have not seen it. But it
makes sense to me that there should be a higher
penalty than just adding a ball to the batter.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
They've turned it into a bock pretty much. That's just
another version of the BOK. It makes sense to me
also to get those different options. Yeah, you should not
be the offensive team should not be penalized at all.
Obviously they're not, but yeah, it sounds like a bock.
I mean with the bock pitches the impario's block. Pitcher
throws pitch, batter puts ball in play, and then you
get to take the result. Whether it's a hit, it
(19:48):
could even be a home run, who knows, but whatever
the result is of the player able to accept or
go back and just get to have the runner take
an extra base. So I guess it's kind of a
version of that, but I think I would bet that
the back is pretty much at the root of the
reason why this rule was changing how.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It was changed.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, who or the catcher's interference, same kind of right.
The other rule change is interesting to me is runners
running through second and third base when there's a force
play in order. They're the only two bases where you're
not permitted, at least legally to run through the bag,
but teams have started teaching their runners to run through
(20:29):
the bag with two outs on a force play. Say
it's first and second. You're the runner on first, and
obviously it's quicker to run to the bag than to
slide to the bag, so you're giving yourself a better
chance of beating the throat to second base. The other
side of that is if you run through the bag
and you are safe. Now you're like this with this
wandering runner out there, and the infielders are going to
(20:51):
have to decide what to do.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
They chase you down.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
If they chase you down, the guy scores from second
base before they tag you, you've created a diversion. Essentially,
so MLB said, no more of that, no more of
these shenanigans. You have to now slide into the base,
and if you're automatically out, you're considered abandoning your path
on the bases if you have a second foot that
(21:14):
goes past the base at second or third.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Let me get your take on that, Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I just giggled. You know, actually that's been taught for years,
that particular play. It's just become more in vogue. People
have made it more obvious. But for years, really good
base running instructors we talk to their runners about that
in spring training on an annual basis. It's just another
thing that to me could potentially impact strategy or prevent
A team that really does do a great job of preparation,
(21:40):
and they got a couple guys that really are aware
of that this, you know, the micromanaging about the slide
and where the foot can go and all that kind
of stuff. I'm sure on pires really love this. I
don't understand why. The one part about it that I've
always was concerned about. I mean, if you run through
the bag going from first to second base and the
runner really kind of like propels themself out towards the outfield,
so then can you be considered out by being out
(22:01):
of the baseline kind of a thing?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
That would be the only thing. And then the.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Runners, you know, the other guys you got to know,
like you just said, to run hard and get the
home plate before that person's eventually tagged out. I don't
understand why they felt compelled that they worried about another
injury somehow, I'm not quite sure. But it's another thing
that could impact the strategy or prevent somebody that's better
(22:25):
prepared than the other group to possibly win a game.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, I guess it's uh, I don't know. It's not
a safety thing. I think it's just, you know, just
smacks of trickery, if you will. I'm not sure what
the impetus was for this. It doesn't come into play
that often, but as you said, it's been around for years,
but it has become much more popular.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I've seen it a lot more in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I think I think you know, guys have like it's
been talked about so much that different guys are starting
to get into it. There's only a couple of players
on your team in the past that it's always that guy.
I mean, it's like a Pete Rose mentality kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So somebody that's going to when the coach talks about it,
he's gonna gonna try to please. But or also he's
just like so hell been on winning. He sees this
as being an opportunity and it's good. It's a good thing.
So I like for them to extrap a little bit
further in regards to why they think it's necessary, because
that's one of those things that's like kind of a push.
Why wa even mess with it?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Joe?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
If you followed the Dominican Winter League Championship, I have not.
It's been fascinating. I'm going to take you first to
game six. It's best out of seven, and game six
you have Leonis es Goohito, managed by Albert Poolhols, is
one out away from winning the championship. They're up by
two and Gustavoiez of Lesi hits a two run homer
(23:45):
off Rafael Montero to tie the games and a de
extra innings and the DeGrace win in thirteen innings. But
after the home run, Leona has challenged that his bat
was corked.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Albert Pooles managing, he challenges the bat card and so
the next day, and I've never heard about this, I've
heard about bats being x rayed. The next day, you
got officials from both teams, You've got the Dominican Commissioner.
They actually cut the bat open, they cut it into
pieces and they found nothing that was clean. So Gustavoez
(24:23):
just lost this bat that he used to hit this
game tying home run.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
He ruined the bat.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
They're going to send it to the Dominican Hall of Fame.
And now it's all ruined.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
It's all in pieces, I mean multiple pieces.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Then you get to game seven and Leones did win
Game seven a diving catch with two outs in the ninth.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Then they with runners on second and third to end it.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Wow. Yeah, how was the what was the attendance like?
Did they have good attendance.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I'm sure it was. I mean, I I've been over there.
I've not been there for one of these games, but
it is a party, even for the regular season games
over there. Oh yeah's you know, it's it's I think
it's a tremendous atmosphere because you know, we talk a
lot about playing Fenway Park and Yankee You talk about
pressure as a player. Oh my goodness, over there, it'll
prepare you for the most extreme circumstances.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
No question.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I've always been a big fan. I've never participated. I
only participated as a instructor. I would go down there
for a couple of weeks. I did it to the
Dominican I went to Mexico several years ago to help
out Billy Latchman. I think it's a great proving ground
to learn. Whalley Joyner when he went to Puerto Rico
and I don't know was at eighty forty five, it
(25:32):
accelerated him so much, and then he eventually went out
and had that great year, Rookie of the Year kind
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
He's just a small example.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I mean, you see photographs with Willie Mays and Hank
Aaron and all these guys in the wintertime, ROBERTA.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Clementi playing in the winter ball.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
But with today's players, it's just like they just it's
all about the weight room and looking at technology in
regards to trying to become better as opposed to actually
playing the greatest way to become a better baseball player,
and that's nine innings of baseball.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
So I've always.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Been wanting to see a resurgence there that to me
is be so interesting to see that really become something
that matters again. And you should you whether you know
a hitter that's really chasing breaking balls or just as
a strike zone that he expands too often, a picture
that's really command wise, has got a great arm, but
I got to really learn how to throw my fastball
(26:23):
down in a way, you know, just changing a position
with the position player whatever. There's just so much. Not
Having said all that, part of the issue has always
been these guys want to win down there. The owners
of these groups want to win. So a player going
down or to try to doing different things sometimes could
find himself home in ten days or two weeks. If
there's no performance, you have to you really held to
(26:44):
a high standard performance wise. Taking all of that into consideration.
I would love to see some kind of a resurrection
within winter Ball becomes so popular that everybody wants to go.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Money's different.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I get it, kids, you know, it's becomes really rich,
really quickly. But it's a great proving round on like
you said, the toughness component to it, where you're can
be gone in two weeks. If you don't perform, bands
are going to get on. If you don't perform all
that kind of stuff, You're eating food that you don't
normally eat. You're living in a situation very uncomfortable, just
like when the Latino comes to our country when he's
(27:18):
a young man sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years of age.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I think it's great. It's a great proving ground.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, and I think it's great that Albert Pooholz is
managing winter Ball. I mean, I love it when these
superstars of the game, and obviously he's a future first
ballot Hall of Famer, continue to give back to the game,
whether it's Tony Gwynn coaching in college, Cal Ripken with
his youth baseball program, Derek Jeter going back into the
front office for the Marlins.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Obviously, these guys don't need to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
They've established themselves as legends, they have all the money
that they need. It speaks to me anyway to the passion.
If you're going to go managing winter ball, it's not easy,
as you just alluded to Joe, even to manage, it's
not just to play. That speaks that the passion Albert
has for the game of baseball.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Otey also, I think, just as you're making me think,
as you're saying it out loud, I think Albert that
just in the case he might want to manage in
the major leagues, and the way major league managers are
assigned or hired right now, he doesn't necessarily fit that profile.
So I think it's good. I mean, he's going to
go out there, he's going to show them that he
really wants to do this.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I mean, I'm just this is conjecture.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But while he's doing that, just the ability to incorporate
that information would be important. Also because if he truly
wants to get that job, maybe Saint Louis, I mean,
there's going to be an outlier.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
That would permit him.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You know, even though he is not this analytically savvy guy,
but based on the fact that he's been part of
their past, and they're they're looking to rebuild in that way.
But it's like it's like, you know, when Ryan Sandberg
went out, you know, Rhyano went out and managed and
the Iron Pigs and Allentown years ago in an attempt
to get back to the major leagues as a manager,
and he did.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
And I went up to Rhyano and I.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Told him how much I was really impressed by the
fact that he did do that, because a lot of
guys wouldn't. They did, just they want to go right
from whatever to the big league manager's office without putting
in the time necessary, just like a player does. So
I've always respected Sandberg for doing that. I don't know,
maybe Albert's got the same thing in mind. I'm just
curious because the way managers are chosen today compared to
(29:20):
several years ago, is completely different.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, you've also got Yaddiya Molina.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
They both can be challenging for the cardinal job one day,
but we'll see. But it's a great transition. You just
set me up, Joe with what I wanted to talk about.
There's an interesting hire in the NFL in the coaching
ranks that dovetails with exactly what you're talking about cool
surprising that some people maybe in this day and age.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We'll talk about that next on the Book of Joe.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I mean, we love golf, we love football, we love
all kinds of sports. Here it is basically a baseball podcast,
but when intersects other sports, we're glad to bring it up.
In this case, Joe's Pete Carroll was hired as coach
of the Raiders at the age of seventy three. He
was out of the game for a year, watching a
grand kid play JV football and watching his son coach
(30:21):
with the University of Washington. Hired by John Spytech, who
is the new general manager of the Raiders, and of
course Tom Brady, who's got five percent ownership of that team,
but it sounds like he has a very strong voice
in that organization.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Interesting to Maaze.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'm sure you found it interesting, Joe, that you're taking
a chance, if you will, on a guy who's won
a Super Bowl, the greatest coach in Seahawks history. Is
all kinds of accomplishments at USC and all down the line.
John Spytech was a college teammate of Tom Brady's at
the University of Michigan and they were together with the
Tampa Bay Bucks as well.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Now, his background is.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Mostly as a as a scout, scouted college football players
and scouted for the NFL. He's not cut out of
this sabermetric mold, if you will, as many are in
the NFL as they are in MLB and the NBA,
And I think the connection with Brady obviously is here
at play. And obviously Brady's a guy who won championships.
(31:20):
Are a veteran coach in Bill Belichick with the New
England Patriots.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So the path for.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Pete Carroll I first, jar I was surprised to see
a seventy three year old out of the game for
a year hired to coaching the NFL team on a
three year contract. But it makes sense when I think
about who's hiring him and his track record.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, and then seventy three going on fifty three, right,
I mean, yeah, the guy's got He's just pure energy
and I don't think that's going to dissipate whatsoever based
on what his birth certificate says. So I'm really happy
for him, and he's been an outstanding coach. And again
when you watch his teams, and his team's always play
with high energy. He coaches with high energy, and now
(31:57):
you have a guy that has those kinds of qualities
plus the experience and wisdom and the track record.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Of success that he has, So it just it does
make sense. But you're correct.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You're correct that the group that's hiring him has to
be definitely in alignment with him and what he's going
to bring to the table and the ability to set
him free and not get in the way of what
he does and how he does it. There's going to
be a union there between the front office and him,
but it's gonna be Peach's game.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
It's gonna be Peach's team, and these other groups are.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
There in order to augment that to applying with whatever
he needs, the information he needs. But then you lit
a guy like Pete Carroll b Pete, and I think
it's a great hire.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Actually it's going to dove tell me what I'm going
to talk about at the very end regarding the quote
of the day, But yeah, I think it's it's good
and it's everything has to align for that to happen
in a baseball situation, In a football situation right now.
I don't even know what basketball necessarily, but I say
baseball and football. It's got to start at the top,
and then the sensibilities and alignments has to occur based
(33:01):
on common philosophies and the ability for ownership to empower
as opposed not necessarily let's say front office to empower
as opposed to want to control what's going on in
the dugout or on the field.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, if you listen to any of the press conference,
there was a high emphasis on character and the type
of players that they want, not in terms of skill
set necessarily button teammates. In fact, Pete Carroll said, if
there's one thing I want them to understand, it's that
to be a great team.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You have to be a great teammate. There was a
lot of emphasis there about being a great teammate and
the character of the players they want to bring into
the organization. You don't hear that a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Pete alf often talks about grift also, he likes that word,
and you know, I totally agree with that philosophically, that
would to me that is the right way to go
about building your group. You start with that and then
you utilize whatever your scouting techniques may be Hopefully, it
sounds like they're going to have some tried and true
based on the fact that there's a great scouting background
(34:03):
there that you gonna want real eyeballs on players, You're
gonna have really lively discussions, arguments, whatever, and then you
augment that with any kind of that information that you
can support your decision making with or even blow holes
into your decision making that causes you maybe to even
go further and regard to your discussions about who we want,
who we don't want. But I love the idea of
(34:25):
establishing kind of a template. This is the kind of
guy that we are looking for, because when you do that,
when it gets hot, you're not going to get those
penalties before the whistle or after the whistle. You're going
to get discipline on both sides of the ball. You're
gonna get good decision making. Emotions, emotional intelligence, emotional stability,
all these things are going to incur. So they have
(34:46):
a better idea of what to expect. And if you're
the manager of the coach right there, the kind of
blueprint you're attempting to put out there, there's a much
greater chance of that actually occurring, which, after all, at
the end of the day, like Don Zimmer said, if
they're not getting your signs and you're really not managing,
and if these guys aren't getting the point, you're really
not coaching.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And finally, Joe, I mean, this is a sad story,
but I did want to bring this up and send
our condolences to the family of Brian Mattis, left handed pitcher.
He was found dead in his apartment January sixth in Arizona.
Actually his mother was the one who found him. He
was a number one pick, a fourth overall pick back
in two thousand and eight. The pick behind him was
(35:27):
Buster Posey. Tells you how well he was thought of
coming out of college. Left handed pitcher became a really
useful and reliable relief pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles was
known for causing all kinds of trouble for David Ortiz,
the left handed slinger that he was real tall guy.
I bring it up, Joe, because I know he pitched
his last major league game for you was in twenty sixteen.
(35:49):
He started that year with Baltimore, was traded to the Braves.
The Braves released.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Him, then the Cubs picked him up in June. In July.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
The end of July, he got one start against Seattle,
did not go well, gave up three runs. I'm I'm sorry,
three innings up, six runs, three home runs. The Cubs
came back won the game seven to six, but did
not pitch again in the big leagues. Now, he did
sign that offseason with Arizona, but he got released by
Arizona in May just after a couple of months, and
(36:19):
to speak to we talk about the passion for the game.
He was still pitching independent ball in twenty nineteen. Three
years later, he was pitching for the Long Island Ducks,
a team that won the Atlantic League Championship. I don't
know what happened after that, but obviously things went downhill.
There was a police report that stated he was found
on his back on a couch with white substance in
his mouth and a luminum foil, a lighter and a
(36:41):
straw on the floor near his hand. No signs of trauma,
foul play, nothing like that. So we'll probably hear a
little bit more once the investigation is complete. But it's
just a sad story that we could lose someone that young,
thirty seven years old and especially in that way.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
A guy who had a successful career, made thirteen million dollars,
pitched eight years in the big leagues and to have
an end like that far too young.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Yes, it is awful, of course I did see all that.
I didn't know him well. He pitched me that one day.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
He just came up and like you said, it was
very short lived. I do remember when he pitched for Baltimore.
He was tough. He was tough on the teams that
I managed. I thought he was a very good lift
tended pitcher. So we got a chance to get our
hands on it. We needed we needed some We needed
that spot starter, and so you know, THEO and the
boys were high on him. They thought he was throwing
the ball. Well, he came on up and it was
(37:30):
a tough night. He gave up three two run home
runs in the first three and hes were down by
six points quick and that's the game. Eventually, Travis Wooden
made a great catch against the wall, hits a home
run and we win the game on a pinch hit
by Johnny Lesser, pinch hit safety squeeze. There was so
much that occurred on that even if it's crazy, uh,
all what all did transpire. Again, I didn't know him. Well,
(37:51):
you're describing to me as absolutely awful. You know, hearts
out to the family man. That's that's just.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
A tough way.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's tough to deal with, obviously, and I wish I
had known him better. I did not, But you know,
it's just crazy how we all react to different stresses
in our life. And it's just it's just an awful ending.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, it's just a reminder that, you know, when the
cheering stops, there's a whole nother transition to a life
that's some find very challenging. It's it's not easy, and
I know the Players Association does a really good job
pay attention to sort of that re entry into quote
unquote normal life.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
But it is a difficult transition. As Jim Bountin famously
once said, baseball players, we die twice, you know. The
first time is when your career ends, and the next
time is our own mortality. So it is a difficult
transition for a lot of guys. It's not unusual, but
it is a sad story.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And again, our condolences and thoughts go out to the
Madison family. He definitely will be missed, just a beloved
member of those Baltimore Orioles teams. Yeah, on that, Joe,
I know you kind of alluded to how you're going
to take us out today.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
What do you got for us in terms of our
words of wisdom of the day.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Well, you steered me towards Carlos Mendoz and then eventually
finished up with Pete Carroll. And I was just, you know,
debating so many different things today and I just happened
upon Malcolm Gladwell and just talking. You know, you're talking
about managers and head coaches and of course players, and
the line from Gladwell is that researchers have settled on
(39:28):
what they believe is the magic number for true expertise,
and that is ten thousand hours. So I've talked about
the fact that I think the way that managers sometimes
are now hired is really not appropriate base. It's kind
of insulting to those that in the past that have
like really been lifers, and you know, they've ridden the buses,
they've gone on instructional leagues, rookie balls, they've actually scotted
(39:51):
and I guess maybe I'm even describing myself to a
certain extent, but that was an accumulation of hours, and
then because of that accumulation of hours, you have an
expertise in your subject. And I've already used that you
know what you know and might sound a little bit
crazier trite, but it's true.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
You could expound on points.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Like you and I we talk on a weekly basis,
and I have no idea what you're going to throw
at me before we get to begin, but I'm able
to react to you just because I do know what
I know based on all these different, many many hours
I spent on learning my craft.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
And then you have to be able to defend what
you know.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
And Pete can do that, and I'm telling you, young
Carlos Mendez really impressed me with that. But as you're
defending what you know, always remaining open to new ideas,
that's the part that really needs to be emphasized. It's
not just being ironclad and I'm not going to consider
anything else, of course not. But you got to be
able to know when to close the doors, the doors
(40:48):
being your ears and really settling on what you know,
and then there's time maybe to open it. Maybe there's
a point where you're not quite sure that you might
have to open maybe one or both of them to
really get some new information in there.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Last point, the expertise.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
It's so many dedicated hours, crazy hours, I mean, to
accumulate this kind of information and get to the point
where you're kind of like an expert at what you do.
It just doesn't happen overnight by any I mean the
classic phrase of what takes twenty years to be overnight's success.
And you have to be totally consumed by this stuff,
I mean absolutely consuming that you've done it as a writer,
you know what I'm talking about. And there's sacrificial hours
(41:23):
where you'd rather be doing something else when you're actually
doing this, hours of solitude. And having described all this,
at the end of the day, it's not really work.
It's a love affair, right, It's something that you've always
wanted to do, So you never really these hours that
you're putting in in order to become good at something.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
There's nothing else you'd rather be doing. It's crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
So I set me up for that with Carlos today,
and then you bring in Pete at the end, and
then Malcolm ties it up. So I really do have
a strong respect for people that really know their craft
and they're not afraid to put it out there and
speak about it. But, like I said, while doing all that,
remaining open and that's really the trick to continuing to
(42:08):
grow at what you do.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, that's interesting, Joe, because you just remind me of
something that Pete Carroll did say at his press conference
when somebody asked them what he was doing for the
last year, and his answer dovetails perfectly with what you
just said. He said, learning, you have to stay curious
and make sure you're always onto the next opportunity to
(42:30):
try to be a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Those two words learning and curious. This is seventy three
year old man.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
As you said, he's going on fifty three, that never
goes out of style learning and curious.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I listen, I kind of agree with that more it
is every day presents different opportunities to grow. I have
some friends and others that I know that they'll always
reference that. At our age, you know, they like it's
kind of like a time to shut things down. You know,
I am a almost completely retired, but there's no sense
(43:07):
of shutting it down. Like you said, I'm always looking
even if it's just golf, trying to get better in
my golf game, whatever it might be. You're always trying
to improve on a daily basis, whether it's just reading
and know other it's just becoming remaining current and topics
of what's going on in our world today and having
an opinion on that. All this stuff, there's the there's
a curiosity factor, and philosophically, you're you know, you're trying
(43:29):
to align yourself and figure out what do I really
think while remaining open to change.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
All that stuff is really good.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But I do have some friends that will always reference
so at our age, I want to tell me, you
know what, you could you could stick that quite frankly,
because at our age, I mean it's just it is
a number, and we interpret that whoever would however we
would like. It could be an energetic and just as
energetic as it was twenty years ago, or it could
be like you know, it's a total retirement where you
(43:59):
just shuffle off out to the next whatever and really
you're just in waiting. So I and I agree with
that one, especially in today's world with all the different
advantages we have to stay in shape too, mentally and physically.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Why not.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, I'm with you, you know, at our age kind of thing.
You know, I think I got no use for that,
because all you're doing there is you're holding yourself to
normalize standards, which is basically turning yourself into average.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Who wants to be average?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I mean there's some people that are really okay with that,
and it's just a it's a learned behavior. I think
you know from years ago, and then all of a sudden,
whether you have to cut your hair a certain way,
you got to address a certain way. You talked about the
road trips in the past, different things that did with
the group. I mean, we devolve into this moment where
we think we have to act a certain way. The
way you have to act is how you feel, what
(44:48):
you believe in. That's how you act, and what is
your motivation on a daily basis, That's how you act.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
That's who you are.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So I to force different opinions on yourself based on
you know, other people's opinions, actually other people's judgments in
regards to what you should be like, how you should dress,
how you should think at this particular point in your life.
To me, that is extremely boring and very worthless, and
it definitely will get you to settle into some bad
routines way earlier.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Than you should.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Good stuff, Joe, and I know you mentioned this. I
love to surprise you with topics. You don't know what's
coming up, but I'm gonna break ranks right now and
give you a little hint that next week I think
I think we're probably gonna be talking about a certain
football game that is going to be played. Yeah, and
the differences which I find fascinating between baseball and football.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And that's not a George Carlin monologue, but it's more
about how you win championships in both sports. I think
we're gonna have to dive into that next week. So
I look forward to that.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Joe, awesome brother, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
See you next time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
All right, buddy, you will.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You have found once again the Book of Joe with
me Tom Verducci and say hello to Joe Madden.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
How you doing today, Joe?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I am well, Tommy, how are you? Let of football
been going on? Florida has become Florida again after all
this weird weather, so I'm enjoying that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But everything's well done here. Yeah, I know what that means.
The golf clubs are back out.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah, last three.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Days I've taken today af it was like four days
in a row. I got a good run coming up.
I got a couple of my race buddies on Thursday
tomorrow going to Avola with Michael, the Michaels and Randy
Stewart's and we're gonna hang out over there. But then
the weekend is the money games at Saint Pete. So
I've got a full calendar.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right now, all right, sharply up that game, yes he Hey, listen,
we got a ton to get to here. I want
to talk about rule changes in Major League Baseball is
always interesting. An interesting hire in the NFL I want
to talk about. But I want to start with a
tradition in baseball that's actually older than the Hall of Fame.
(01:15):
On Saturday night, the New York chapter of the Baseball Writers'
Association of America, we held our one hundredth annual dinner.
One hundred dinners, and listen, this is a dinner that's
they've always given out the major awards MVP, Cy Young,
Rookie of the Year, Manager of the Year.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You go back in the day. You had Babe Ruth
at the dinner.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mannle, Joe, I remember one time Mickey
Mannle was at the dinner. It was the year that
jose Kanseika was honored with the MVP and went forty
forty that year and then got another award. And after
he was done speaking, he walked back to his seat,
thought about something, remembered something, walked back to the microphone,
and he said to the crowd, if I hadn't known
(01:56):
you people make such a big deal out of forty forty,
I'd have done it multiple times. I went back and
sat down. Have you ever been to dinner.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Joe, I've been invited, I have not.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I was in Italy, I was in Europe twice when
it occurred, and the other time got snowed out. Absolutely,
some guys did make it, but I was in Florida
and there was a really huge snowstorm. But yeah, twice
in Italy when it occurred, and once a pretty big snowstorm.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Heard a lot about it. Obviously was honored.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I had I did you know my via the video
kind of a thing, but have not actually attended in person.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Speaking of which, the MVPs show, Hey Otani and Aaron
Judge both could not make it. Both sent in acceptances
via video. Tani obviously is out in the LA area.
They've been affected by the wildfires, and both Otani and Judge,
by the way, are expecting their first children, Judges any
(02:53):
day now, and that's why he could not make it.
Can you imagine those two guys with dad power, Joe well,
Tani and Judge.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
High expectations around the Little League whatever they're going to
participate in. Now, it's gonna be interesting to see that.
I'm happy for both these guys. They're both wonderful. I mean,
I don't know Aaron nearly as well. Obviously has some
really good conversation with him once on the field of
New York and of course show.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
So, yeah, I wish them nothing but the best.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And yeah, the devastating fires and all this really awful
things that are going on in regards to the catastrophes.
It's really awful to see, so wish them all the
best and trying to get getting themselves back on their feet.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, both of them gave really heartfelt, very impressive as
you might think acceptance speeches.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Show Hey, really really impressed me.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Besides obviously showing tremendous concern for the people in the
area have been affected by the wildfires, he actually showed
really genuine heartfeld concern for the animals. He talked about
what are the pets or the wild animals who have
lost their homes and habitats. I mean that's show Hey Otani,
he's got a heart of gold.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
He does again, people have no idea. You watch him,
and you know, I think when he really comes across,
if you really want to see how he is, he'll
pick up a piece of paper in front of the
mount and put in his back pocket, or he'll acknowledge
a player that's done something well versus.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Him and gives them a little bit of a smile.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He has a joy about the day, and I think
that reaches into different parts of his life and it is.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's just he's just a different animal.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Man speaking of animals, he just a different cat, and
he is, he's all of that.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's not nothing. He's contrived with this guy.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
For anybody that believes any of this his actions are
contrived or he's attempting to be ingratiating, he's not.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
He's just being showed raised that way.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Again, I've never met his parents, but I think that'd
be pretty awesome to see what they're like, because he's
truly reflection of how we grew up, who we grew
up with, and all of the above. He's just he's different.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, that's a great point, because I think he is
a reflection of how he was raised and the job
his parents did, because he is so respectful. And I'm
with you on I love the way he keeps the
dugout clean.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He really does. I mean, yeah, if you're around, if.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Anybody's around a Major League Baseball dugout, guys just throw
things everything. You know, no one has any concern about
the cleanliness of the place, and they figure somebody else
is going to clean it up. And sometimes the same
thing happens in the clubhouse, not show. Hey, if he
sees a gum wrapper on the dugout floor, he's going
to pick it up and put in the garbage. I
was raised the right way. Also impressed and Chris Sale
picking up his first cy Young Award's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's his first, Joe. I mean, he's been close before.
His stuff is off the charts. Great.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We all know he's come back from multiple injuries. I
was really cool to see Chris there speaking of parents,
acknowledging his parents, his own family, very heartfelt speech in
which he talked about really part of his toughness came
from his mom, and he said there was a rule
in the house that unless you had a broken bone
(05:55):
or were bleeding, don't come to me with any complaints.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
That's Chris.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I acknowledge that his mom was the one who got
kind of that vibe going in the Sale family.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Is he from Hazelton?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You know he's from Lakeland, Florida, but he does have
that kind of Hazelton vibe.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh my god, Well, you know, it's wonderful to hear
all that stuff. And yes, gosh, when you first saw him,
you know, when he first came on on the scene.
You thought there would be multiples, right, I mean, it's
a Randy Johnson kind of a guy. Is big, intimidating,
great stuff seemed to be resilient, all the different qualities
you're looking for, and like you're saying, it takes like
(06:33):
a kind of a strange moment that he eventually gets
to this point where he's acknowledging this way. But really
exemplary stuff comes from what's the name of the college
down here and on the west coast of Florida.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's a Gulf coast, golf coast.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, which is kind of you know, all these unusual
tidbits about him, but stuff is intimidating. I don't really
know him, but I'm very happy for him because you know,
he had he had gone through some stuff more recently
and he came out the other side in a good way.
So congratulations, he.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Says, much of a competitor as I've ever been around.
Quick story on Chris Sale. He has never shaken off
a sign in his career. He does not do any
game planning. He puts the entire game in the hands
of his catcher, and he learned this from Mark Burley.
Mark Burley never shook off a sign, so's he's in
(07:24):
go mo the entire time on trust in his catcher.
Does Chris Sale all that work about hitter's weaknesses. He
leads it up to the catcher, sticks with his strength
and just follows the lead of the catcher. And he
the way he pitches, he pitches with pedal to the metal.
He's in go mode all the time because of that.
Very aggressive and Burley Burley would just frustrate the heck guy.
(07:46):
He pitched the perfect game against one of the teams.
They managed the Rays, you know, just never threw hard,
but had this He beat you with his mind as
much as he did with his arm.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I like the idea.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I mean again, sometimes we hear all this stuff, and
there's a lot of guys that are actually like that,
that want minimal information. They the ability to stay in
the moment, react to what you're saying. There's nothing wrong
with really following a catcher that really does his homework
and does a good job with this. And I saw
it in Chicago and was talking to Mike Borsello on
the phone as they boards. He was the game planner there,
(08:20):
did a great job and the combination of him and
the catcher was you felt pretty confident about the plan
being in place, and then it frees up the pitcher
see target throw baseball. I mean, that's so different than
a hitter or seaball hit ball and get rid of
all this. You know that we get so inundated with
information and thoughts and primarily mechanical thoughts.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
You don't need them.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You want the mechanical thoughts like when you're throwing a
side piece. You want the mechanical thoughts and batting practice,
working off the tea with your hitting coach, et cetera.
But it's really wise to train yourself once you get
into competition, to really get out of that mindset right
there and just get back and like you just said, competing.
And that's probably why he was able to compete so well,
because he wasn't inundata with all these different thoughts. I
(09:03):
like that I show him. If you took a real
poll of a lot of these really great pitchers, a
lot of it was see catcher throw a ball. Now
there's some that really did want to be more involved
in the play calling.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And that's fine too.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And I've talked about James Shield Shields used to call
his own game. That got to the point he had
so many pitches and he'd get frustrated with the catcher.
I said, James, what do you call your own game?
Like developed a set of signs with our catchers and
just call your own game.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And he did. So.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
There's different ways to get this done. But when you
get get in a moment and keep your head clear
and just compete. Not used enough, where it's not used enough,
that's greatness. Sitting in the waiting room right there.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, and along those same lines, Trek Schoolball, the American
League Cy Young Award winner. It's interesting we had two
lefty cy Young winners, both won the Triple Crowns in
their leagues. He gave from it its credit to Jake Rogers,
who caught every single one of his starts. So there's
as much as we have all this information there, Joe,
you know this, there's something between the pitcher and the catcher,
(10:01):
and if it's there as a manager and coach, I
think you acknowledge that and don't mess it up.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
As as a former catcher.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Nothing more gratifying after you know you could go for
four for five, What doesn't matter after catching a win
and truly having your guys, your pitchers acknowledge, come up,
they want to go get a beer afterwards, talk about it,
and you just you just replay the entire game both
you know, maybe the play calling, the pitch execution.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Just whatever moments that happened in the game. It's great.
It's great.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
So when a pitcher or pitching staff acknowledges a catcher,
while highest praise possible that a catcher can to have
bestowed upon him, more than anything. And again it's for years.
I mean, the catching position when it hits, it's a
really great position. But a lot of guys have hung
around because they know how to handle their pitching staff,
(10:52):
they know how to communicate with them, and they are
difference makers.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So I had the honor presenting the last award of
the evening, which is called the Jill DiMaggio Toast of
the Town Award. We as the New York chapter the BBWAA.
Every year we picked.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
The one team player person doesn't matter, could be executive
who literally is the toast of the town, someone who's
most recognizable for what they've accomplished in the year. And
in this case, the winner was the twenty twenty four
New York Mets. As I mentioned at their intro, Joe,
they really made baseball fun again.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, they started twenty two and thirty three.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Only two teams in history had ever made the playoffs
in a full season starting that bad, that deep into
a season, and they came back. And what I loved
about that team was they played with so much joy
and together this and had fun.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They really had fun.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
As I said at the dinner, we like to hold
this conceit in our heads that these guys playing Major
League baseball are playing the same game that we played
as kids in Little league, in the backyard and the street,
the stoop, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Of course it's not true. It's very different.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But we like to think that that's part of it,
is that you're playing for the joy of the game.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And I think the Mets show that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I actually wastage because they brought it a special
guest before me, Joe, and that was Grimace.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Oh really okay, which.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Was perfect because you know, you think about the fun
the Mets had. Obviously, the Mets brought him back or
brought him out there on his birthday to throw out
the first pitch, and they ran off seven straight wins
when this season was looking bleak in June, and that
became one of the many memes for the Mets throughout
the season.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
So it's pretty cool to have Grimace up there. You
a big Grimace fan.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, yes, I mean I love all of that kind
of stuff, you know, all the different things that I've
done in the past, and an attempt to create the
fun and the joy within a group, and it's it's
kind of interesting how joy comes packaged in different ways,
right in the form of a Grimace. But yeah, I
love all that stuff. We've talked about this also. That's
(12:50):
the one component of the game, and I've talked to
guys all the time, the joy, the fun, just the
pure pleasure of doing this.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
A lot of that's been subtracted.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It has, I'm just quite frankly, just being very honest,
it just has. I mean, when you get a group
like that, Francisco Lindor has a lot to do with that,
his obvious joy for the game. But then how well
he speaks about it and then he goes and he
backs it up and he does it in a very
professional way.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, that's that's the part. I think.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
You know, more teams should really pay attention to that
kind of an attitude. I mean, the Dodgers obviously demonstrated that,
but they just have such overwhelming talent.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
But I love that component.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I love a Grimace turning into a smile, and then
I love the idea of having fun and really not
being afraid to put it out there somehow and try
to elicit in different ways because it's it's a difference maker.
There's enough pressure on these guys every day, whether it's
self inflicted or coming from other directions, to to not
really have a sense of joy, almost like when you
(13:48):
first started playing the game, when you're six, seven, eight
years of age. That's that's part that I am really
attuned to, and those are the kind of things that
I really wanted to capture and make sure that my
guys felt because I do believe it's a difference maker.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I agree, and I think that's when players are at
their best, when there is a component of joy to it.
We've talked about freedom right as part of that as well.
But here's a major philosophical question for you, Joe, who
is older mister met or Grimace?
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Who's old? I mean the actual who's inside the costumes?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Are No.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
No, the actual character, Well, you're taking kids hearts here, they're.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Real guys inside the costume Grimace.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I'm gonna go with grim because it's not obvious.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
No, the obvious answer is. The obvious answer is mister Met. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Mister Met was introduced in nineteen sixty three. At the time,
it was just a cartoon character, not an actual mascot
like on yearbooks, programs, and scorecards. The comic artist by
the name of al aviisan He who worked on Captain
America in the nineteen thirties and forties. He contributed to
the design of mister Met and then when Chase Stadium
opened in nineteen sixty four, there mister Mett, the first
(15:05):
live mascot in Major League Baseball. Lady Met, by the way,
appeared in sixty five, and she became Missus Met in
the nineteen seventies after they got married. Just in case
you like your social history of mister Mett, so Grimace
comes along in nineteen seventy one, so he's eight years
younger than mister Met. At the time, he was called
(15:26):
Evil Grimace, and he would swipe cups from McDonald land
to prevent anyone from having their milkshakes or sodas. He
had four arms and inadvertently he was scaring kids. So
mcdous went back to the drawing board and said, we
got to change this dude. And they made him to
this sweetheart of a blob who only wanted to drink
(15:48):
milkshakes and hang out with Ronald McDonald, so that he
became very popular. So his birthday was that when they
brought him out supposedly for the throughout the first pitch.
So June twelfth is his birthday of nineteen seventy one.
By the way, Ryan Klesco has the exact same birthday.
I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying I'm not ever
(16:09):
seeing the two of them in the same room together,
Ryan Kleskow and Grimace.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
There you go, you're back. You got my my No,
I can't go back to the person in the costume theory.
You never know, you never know.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But Joe, you are a master of this with Tampa
Bay Chicago. You name it lightening the mood. I mean,
it is part of the job of the grind of
the season, and you know, I think Carlos Mendoza did
a great job with it. You know, Rookie manager, especially
a team that starts out twenty two and thirty three.
He allowed those things to produce energy, not to take
(16:39):
anything away from preparation. Obviously, never you never want that
to happen. It didn't, but I think Carlos Mendoza really
set the right time. I was very impressed with him
as the first year managers. Team starts zero to five,
twenty two and thirty three, it's in New York, a
lot of pressure and expectations. He was a big part
of this team being able to play so relaxed, especially
playing uphill for most of the season.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I like when he talks.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I've liked from the first I watched or listened to
the press conference when he was introduced last year before
the season, whatever that was. I liked the way he speaks.
It's not contrived, it's not scripted. He's just telling you
based on his years of experience. He's one of these
I should just say, young old guys. I mean, he
knows what he knows, and I really liked that about him.
(17:23):
So when they were struggling, he did he absolutely did
not push the panic button. Again, I was following this
pretty closely. He did not come down hard. It was
not all these team meetings, was all these no proclamations,
made no kind of anything. He was just stuck with
this game plan and the guys really reacted.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
To it well.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Then eventually obviously started turning in the other direction and
they became playoff teams. So I do I like the
way he speaks. He is a great representative of how
things had been done in the past, regarding earning your
stripes and getting an opportunity to manage, going from the
bench coach with the Yankees, and all the minor league
time that he put in. So when he talks, I
believe he knows what he knows.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Good stuff. Joe, Hey, we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I mentioned we've got rule changes coming up in Major
League Baseball this year, and we're going to dive into those.
They may seem like small deals, but you need to
know what has changed in MLB in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
We'll do that right after this. Welcome back to the
Book of Joe. Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
This didn't give a whole lot of attention, and it
does seem like minor but I think anytime there's a
rule change, you know this as a manager, he has
to stay on top of it. The first rule change
is the violation of the shift rule and the penalty
for it. It used to be that you could take the
result of the play or it was an automatic ball
on the batter. This is in case say the shortstop
(18:55):
is playing on the right side of the infield, or
vice versa. For the second basement, if they lined up
on the wrong side of the field, they changed it,
and this makes total sense. Now the result of the play,
you can take that or the batter gets a free base.
So instead of an automatic ball, the batter's on base
and the fielder who was at a position is charged
(19:15):
with an error. The batter does not get a time
at bet. Seems obvious to me. Listen, I've never seen
a violation of the rule. I don't even know if
it's happened, but I have not seen it. But it
makes sense to me that there should be a higher
penalty than just adding a ball to the batter.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
They've turned it into a bock pretty much. That's just
another version of the BOK. It makes sense to me
also to get those different options. Yeah, you should not
be the offensive team should not be penalized at all.
Obviously they're not, but yeah, it sounds like a bock.
I mean with the bock pitches the impario's block. Pitcher
throws pitch, batter puts ball in play, and then you
get to take the result. Whether it's a hit, it
(19:48):
could even be a home run, who knows, but whatever
the result is of the player able to accept or
go back and just get to have the runner take
an extra base. So I guess it's kind of a
version of that, but I think I would bet that
the back is pretty much at the root of the
reason why this rule was changing how.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It was changed.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, who or the catcher's interference, same kind of right.
The other rule change is interesting to me is runners
running through second and third base when there's a force
play in order. They're the only two bases where you're
not permitted, at least legally to run through the bag,
but teams have started teaching their runners to run through
(20:29):
the bag with two outs on a force play. Say
it's first and second. You're the runner on first, and
obviously it's quicker to run to the bag than to
slide to the bag, so you're giving yourself a better
chance of beating the throat to second base. The other
side of that is if you run through the bag
and you are safe. Now you're like this with this
wandering runner out there, and the infielders are going to
(20:51):
have to decide what to do.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
They chase you down.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
If they chase you down, the guy scores from second
base before they tag you, you've created a diversion. Essentially,
so MLB said, no more of that, no more of
these shenanigans. You have to now slide into the base,
and if you're automatically out, you're considered abandoning your path
on the bases if you have a second foot that
(21:14):
goes past the base at second or third.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Let me get your take on that, Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I just giggled. You know, actually that's been taught for years,
that particular play. It's just become more in vogue. People
have made it more obvious. But for years, really good
base running instructors we talk to their runners about that
in spring training on an annual basis. It's just another
thing that to me could potentially impact strategy or prevent
A team that really does do a great job of preparation,
(21:40):
and they got a couple guys that really are aware
of that this, you know, the micromanaging about the slide
and where the foot can go and all that kind
of stuff. I'm sure on pires really love this. I
don't understand why. The one part about it that I've
always was concerned about. I mean, if you run through
the bag going from first to second base and the
runner really kind of like propels themself out towards the outfield,
so then can you be considered out by being out
(22:01):
of the baseline kind of a thing?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
That would be the only thing. And then the.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Runners, you know, the other guys you got to know,
like you just said, to run hard and get the
home plate before that person's eventually tagged out. I don't
understand why they felt compelled that they worried about another
injury somehow, I'm not quite sure. But it's another thing
that could impact the strategy or prevent somebody that's better
(22:25):
prepared than the other group to possibly win a game.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, I guess it's uh, I don't know. It's not
a safety thing. I think it's just, you know, just
smacks of trickery, if you will. I'm not sure what
the impetus was for this. It doesn't come into play
that often, but as you said, it's been around for years,
but it has become much more popular.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I've seen it a lot more in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I think I think you know, guys have like it's
been talked about so much that different guys are starting
to get into it. There's only a couple of players
on your team in the past that it's always that guy.
I mean, it's like a Pete Rose mentality kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So somebody that's going to when the coach talks about it,
he's gonna gonna try to please. But or also he's
just like so hell been on winning. He sees this
as being an opportunity and it's good. It's a good thing.
So I like for them to extrap a little bit
further in regards to why they think it's necessary, because
that's one of those things that's like kind of a push.
Why wa even mess with it?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Joe?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
If you followed the Dominican Winter League Championship, I have not.
It's been fascinating. I'm going to take you first to
game six. It's best out of seven, and game six
you have Leonis es Goohito, managed by Albert Poolhols, is
one out away from winning the championship. They're up by
two and Gustavoiez of Lesi hits a two run homer
(23:45):
off Rafael Montero to tie the games and a de
extra innings and the DeGrace win in thirteen innings. But
after the home run, Leona has challenged that his bat
was corked.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Albert Pooles managing, he challenges the bat card and so
the next day, and I've never heard about this, I've
heard about bats being x rayed. The next day, you
got officials from both teams, You've got the Dominican Commissioner.
They actually cut the bat open, they cut it into
pieces and they found nothing that was clean. So Gustavoez
(24:23):
just lost this bat that he used to hit this
game tying home run.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
He ruined the bat.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
They're going to send it to the Dominican Hall of Fame.
And now it's all ruined.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
It's all in pieces, I mean multiple pieces.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Then you get to game seven and Leones did win
Game seven a diving catch with two outs in the ninth.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Then they with runners on second and third to end it.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Wow. Yeah, how was the what was the attendance like?
Did they have good attendance.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I'm sure it was. I mean, I I've been over there.
I've not been there for one of these games, but
it is a party, even for the regular season games
over there. Oh yeah's you know, it's it's I think
it's a tremendous atmosphere because you know, we talk a
lot about playing Fenway Park and Yankee You talk about
pressure as a player. Oh my goodness, over there, it'll
prepare you for the most extreme circumstances.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
No question.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I've always been a big fan. I've never participated. I
only participated as a instructor. I would go down there
for a couple of weeks. I did it to the
Dominican I went to Mexico several years ago to help
out Billy Latchman. I think it's a great proving ground
to learn. Whalley Joyner when he went to Puerto Rico
and I don't know was at eighty forty five, it
(25:32):
accelerated him so much, and then he eventually went out
and had that great year, Rookie of the Year kind
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
He's just a small example.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I mean, you see photographs with Willie Mays and Hank
Aaron and all these guys in the wintertime, ROBERTA.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Clementi playing in the winter ball.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
But with today's players, it's just like they just it's
all about the weight room and looking at technology in
regards to trying to become better as opposed to actually
playing the greatest way to become a better baseball player,
and that's nine innings of baseball.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
So I've always.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Been wanting to see a resurgence there that to me
is be so interesting to see that really become something
that matters again. And you should you whether you know
a hitter that's really chasing breaking balls or just as
a strike zone that he expands too often, a picture
that's really command wise, has got a great arm, but
I got to really learn how to throw my fastball
(26:23):
down in a way, you know, just changing a position
with the position player whatever. There's just so much. Not
Having said all that, part of the issue has always
been these guys want to win down there. The owners
of these groups want to win. So a player going
down or to try to doing different things sometimes could
find himself home in ten days or two weeks. If
there's no performance, you have to you really held to
(26:44):
a high standard performance wise. Taking all of that into consideration.
I would love to see some kind of a resurrection
within winter Ball becomes so popular that everybody wants to go.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Money's different.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I get it, kids, you know, it's becomes really rich,
really quickly. But it's a great proving round on like
you said, the toughness component to it, where you're can
be gone in two weeks. If you don't perform, bands
are going to get on. If you don't perform all
that kind of stuff, You're eating food that you don't
normally eat. You're living in a situation very uncomfortable, just
like when the Latino comes to our country when he's
(27:18):
a young man sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years of age.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I think it's great. It's a great proving ground.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, and I think it's great that Albert Pooholz is
managing winter Ball. I mean, I love it when these
superstars of the game, and obviously he's a future first
ballot Hall of Famer, continue to give back to the game,
whether it's Tony Gwynn coaching in college, Cal Ripken with
his youth baseball program, Derek Jeter going back into the
front office for the Marlins.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Obviously, these guys don't need to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
They've established themselves as legends, they have all the money
that they need. It speaks to me anyway to the passion.
If you're going to go managing winter ball, it's not easy,
as you just alluded to Joe, even to manage, it's
not just to play. That speaks that the passion Albert
has for the game of baseball.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Otey also, I think, just as you're making me think,
as you're saying it out loud, I think Albert that
just in the case he might want to manage in
the major leagues, and the way major league managers are
assigned or hired right now, he doesn't necessarily fit that profile.
So I think it's good. I mean, he's going to
go out there, he's going to show them that he
really wants to do this.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I mean, I'm just this is conjecture.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But while he's doing that, just the ability to incorporate
that information would be important. Also because if he truly
wants to get that job, maybe Saint Louis, I mean,
there's going to be an outlier.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
That would permit him.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You know, even though he is not this analytically savvy guy,
but based on the fact that he's been part of
their past, and they're they're looking to rebuild in that way.
But it's like it's like, you know, when Ryan Sandberg
went out, you know, Rhyano went out and managed and
the Iron Pigs and Allentown years ago in an attempt
to get back to the major leagues as a manager,
and he did.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
And I went up to Rhyano and I.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Told him how much I was really impressed by the
fact that he did do that, because a lot of
guys wouldn't. They did, just they want to go right
from whatever to the big league manager's office without putting
in the time necessary, just like a player does. So
I've always respected Sandberg for doing that. I don't know,
maybe Albert's got the same thing in mind. I'm just
curious because the way managers are chosen today compared to
(29:20):
several years ago, is completely different.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, you've also got Yaddiya Molina.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
They both can be challenging for the cardinal job one day,
but we'll see. But it's a great transition. You just
set me up, Joe with what I wanted to talk about.
There's an interesting hire in the NFL in the coaching
ranks that dovetails with exactly what you're talking about cool
surprising that some people maybe in this day and age.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We'll talk about that next on the Book of Joe.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I mean, we love golf, we love football, we love
all kinds of sports. Here it is basically a baseball podcast,
but when intersects other sports, we're glad to bring it up.
In this case, Joe's Pete Carroll was hired as coach
of the Raiders at the age of seventy three. He
was out of the game for a year, watching a
grand kid play JV football and watching his son coach
(30:21):
with the University of Washington. Hired by John Spytech, who
is the new general manager of the Raiders, and of
course Tom Brady, who's got five percent ownership of that team,
but it sounds like he has a very strong voice
in that organization.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Interesting to Maaze.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'm sure you found it interesting, Joe, that you're taking
a chance, if you will, on a guy who's won
a Super Bowl, the greatest coach in Seahawks history. Is
all kinds of accomplishments at USC and all down the line.
John Spytech was a college teammate of Tom Brady's at
the University of Michigan and they were together with the
Tampa Bay Bucks as well.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Now, his background is.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Mostly as a as a scout, scouted college football players
and scouted for the NFL. He's not cut out of
this sabermetric mold, if you will, as many are in
the NFL as they are in MLB and the NBA,
And I think the connection with Brady obviously is here
at play. And obviously Brady's a guy who won championships.
(31:20):
Are a veteran coach in Bill Belichick with the New
England Patriots.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So the path for.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Pete Carroll I first, jar I was surprised to see
a seventy three year old out of the game for
a year hired to coaching the NFL team on a
three year contract. But it makes sense when I think
about who's hiring him and his track record.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, and then seventy three going on fifty three, right,
I mean, yeah, the guy's got He's just pure energy
and I don't think that's going to dissipate whatsoever based
on what his birth certificate says. So I'm really happy
for him, and he's been an outstanding coach. And again
when you watch his teams, and his team's always play
with high energy. He coaches with high energy, and now
(31:57):
you have a guy that has those kinds of qualities
plus the experience and wisdom and the track record.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Of success that he has, So it just it does
make sense. But you're correct.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You're correct that the group that's hiring him has to
be definitely in alignment with him and what he's going
to bring to the table and the ability to set
him free and not get in the way of what
he does and how he does it. There's going to
be a union there between the front office and him,
but it's gonna be Peach's game.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
It's gonna be Peach's team, and these other groups are.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
There in order to augment that to applying with whatever
he needs, the information he needs. But then you lit
a guy like Pete Carroll b Pete, and I think
it's a great hire.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Actually it's going to dove tell me what I'm going
to talk about at the very end regarding the quote
of the day, But yeah, I think it's it's good
and it's everything has to align for that to happen
in a baseball situation, In a football situation right now.
I don't even know what basketball necessarily, but I say
baseball and football. It's got to start at the top,
and then the sensibilities and alignments has to occur based
(33:01):
on common philosophies and the ability for ownership to empower
as opposed not necessarily let's say front office to empower
as opposed to want to control what's going on in
the dugout or on the field.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, if you listen to any of the press conference,
there was a high emphasis on character and the type
of players that they want, not in terms of skill
set necessarily button teammates. In fact, Pete Carroll said, if
there's one thing I want them to understand, it's that
to be a great team.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You have to be a great teammate. There was a
lot of emphasis there about being a great teammate and
the character of the players they want to bring into
the organization. You don't hear that a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Pete alf often talks about grift also, he likes that word,
and you know, I totally agree with that philosophically, that
would to me that is the right way to go
about building your group. You start with that and then
you utilize whatever your scouting techniques may be Hopefully, it
sounds like they're going to have some tried and true
based on the fact that there's a great scouting background
(34:03):
there that you gonna want real eyeballs on players, You're
gonna have really lively discussions, arguments, whatever, and then you
augment that with any kind of that information that you
can support your decision making with or even blow holes
into your decision making that causes you maybe to even
go further and regard to your discussions about who we want,
who we don't want. But I love the idea of
(34:25):
establishing kind of a template. This is the kind of
guy that we are looking for, because when you do that,
when it gets hot, you're not going to get those
penalties before the whistle or after the whistle. You're going
to get discipline on both sides of the ball. You're
gonna get good decision making. Emotions, emotional intelligence, emotional stability,
all these things are going to incur. So they have
(34:46):
a better idea of what to expect. And if you're
the manager of the coach right there, the kind of
blueprint you're attempting to put out there, there's a much
greater chance of that actually occurring, which, after all, at
the end of the day, like Don Zimmer said, if
they're not getting your signs and you're really not managing,
and if these guys aren't getting the point, you're really
not coaching.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And finally, Joe, I mean, this is a sad story,
but I did want to bring this up and send
our condolences to the family of Brian Mattis, left handed pitcher.
He was found dead in his apartment January sixth in Arizona.
Actually his mother was the one who found him. He
was a number one pick, a fourth overall pick back
in two thousand and eight. The pick behind him was
(35:27):
Buster Posey. Tells you how well he was thought of
coming out of college. Left handed pitcher became a really
useful and reliable relief pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles was
known for causing all kinds of trouble for David Ortiz,
the left handed slinger that he was real tall guy.
I bring it up, Joe, because I know he pitched
his last major league game for you was in twenty sixteen.
(35:49):
He started that year with Baltimore, was traded to the Braves.
The Braves released.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Him, then the Cubs picked him up in June. In July.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
The end of July, he got one start against Seattle,
did not go well, gave up three runs. I'm I'm sorry,
three innings up, six runs, three home runs. The Cubs
came back won the game seven to six, but did
not pitch again in the big leagues. Now, he did
sign that offseason with Arizona, but he got released by
Arizona in May just after a couple of months, and
(36:19):
to speak to we talk about the passion for the game.
He was still pitching independent ball in twenty nineteen. Three
years later, he was pitching for the Long Island Ducks,
a team that won the Atlantic League Championship. I don't
know what happened after that, but obviously things went downhill.
There was a police report that stated he was found
on his back on a couch with white substance in
his mouth and a luminum foil, a lighter and a
(36:41):
straw on the floor near his hand. No signs of trauma,
foul play, nothing like that. So we'll probably hear a
little bit more once the investigation is complete. But it's
just a sad story that we could lose someone that young,
thirty seven years old and especially in that way.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
A guy who had a successful career, made thirteen million dollars,
pitched eight years in the big leagues and to have
an end like that far too young.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Yes, it is awful, of course I did see all that.
I didn't know him well. He pitched me that one day.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
He just came up and like you said, it was
very short lived. I do remember when he pitched for Baltimore.
He was tough. He was tough on the teams that
I managed. I thought he was a very good lift
tended pitcher. So we got a chance to get our
hands on it. We needed we needed some We needed
that spot starter, and so you know, THEO and the
boys were high on him. They thought he was throwing
the ball. Well, he came on up and it was
(37:30):
a tough night. He gave up three two run home
runs in the first three and hes were down by
six points quick and that's the game. Eventually, Travis Wooden
made a great catch against the wall, hits a home
run and we win the game on a pinch hit
by Johnny Lesser, pinch hit safety squeeze. There was so
much that occurred on that even if it's crazy, uh,
all what all did transpire. Again, I didn't know him. Well,
(37:51):
you're describing to me as absolutely awful. You know, hearts
out to the family man. That's that's just.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
A tough way.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's tough to deal with, obviously, and I wish I
had known him better. I did not, But you know,
it's just crazy how we all react to different stresses
in our life. And it's just it's just an awful ending.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, it's just a reminder that, you know, when the
cheering stops, there's a whole nother transition to a life
that's some find very challenging. It's it's not easy, and
I know the Players Association does a really good job
pay attention to sort of that re entry into quote
unquote normal life.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
But it is a difficult transition. As Jim Bountin famously
once said, baseball players, we die twice, you know. The
first time is when your career ends, and the next
time is our own mortality. So it is a difficult
transition for a lot of guys. It's not unusual, but
it is a sad story.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And again, our condolences and thoughts go out to the
Madison family. He definitely will be missed, just a beloved
member of those Baltimore Orioles teams. Yeah, on that, Joe,
I know you kind of alluded to how you're going
to take us out today.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
What do you got for us in terms of our
words of wisdom of the day.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Well, you steered me towards Carlos Mendoz and then eventually
finished up with Pete Carroll. And I was just, you know,
debating so many different things today and I just happened
upon Malcolm Gladwell and just talking. You know, you're talking
about managers and head coaches and of course players, and
the line from Gladwell is that researchers have settled on
(39:28):
what they believe is the magic number for true expertise,
and that is ten thousand hours. So I've talked about
the fact that I think the way that managers sometimes
are now hired is really not appropriate base. It's kind
of insulting to those that in the past that have
like really been lifers, and you know, they've ridden the buses,
they've gone on instructional leagues, rookie balls, they've actually scotted
(39:51):
and I guess maybe I'm even describing myself to a
certain extent, but that was an accumulation of hours, and
then because of that accumulation of hours, you have an
expertise in your subject. And I've already used that you
know what you know and might sound a little bit
crazier trite, but it's true.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
You could expound on points.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Like you and I we talk on a weekly basis,
and I have no idea what you're going to throw
at me before we get to begin, but I'm able
to react to you just because I do know what
I know based on all these different, many many hours
I spent on learning my craft.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
And then you have to be able to defend what
you know.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
And Pete can do that, and I'm telling you, young
Carlos Mendez really impressed me with that. But as you're
defending what you know, always remaining open to new ideas,
that's the part that really needs to be emphasized. It's
not just being ironclad and I'm not going to consider
anything else, of course not. But you got to be
able to know when to close the doors, the doors
(40:48):
being your ears and really settling on what you know,
and then there's time maybe to open it. Maybe there's
a point where you're not quite sure that you might
have to open maybe one or both of them to
really get some new information in there.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Last point, the expertise.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
It's so many dedicated hours, crazy hours, I mean, to
accumulate this kind of information and get to the point
where you're kind of like an expert at what you do.
It just doesn't happen overnight by any I mean the
classic phrase of what takes twenty years to be overnight's success.
And you have to be totally consumed by this stuff,
I mean absolutely consuming that you've done it as a writer,
you know what I'm talking about. And there's sacrificial hours
(41:23):
where you'd rather be doing something else when you're actually
doing this, hours of solitude. And having described all this,
at the end of the day, it's not really work.
It's a love affair, right, It's something that you've always
wanted to do, So you never really these hours that
you're putting in in order to become good at something.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
There's nothing else you'd rather be doing. It's crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
So I set me up for that with Carlos today,
and then you bring in Pete at the end, and
then Malcolm ties it up. So I really do have
a strong respect for people that really know their craft
and they're not afraid to put it out there and
speak about it. But, like I said, while doing all that,
remaining open and that's really the trick to continuing to
(42:08):
grow at what you do.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, that's interesting, Joe, because you just remind me of
something that Pete Carroll did say at his press conference
when somebody asked them what he was doing for the
last year, and his answer dovetails perfectly with what you
just said. He said, learning, you have to stay curious
and make sure you're always onto the next opportunity to
(42:30):
try to be a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Those two words learning and curious. This is seventy three
year old man.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
As you said, he's going on fifty three, that never
goes out of style learning and curious.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I listen, I kind of agree with that more it
is every day presents different opportunities to grow. I have
some friends and others that I know that they'll always
reference that. At our age, you know, they like it's
kind of like a time to shut things down. You know,
I am a almost completely retired, but there's no sense
(43:07):
of shutting it down. Like you said, I'm always looking
even if it's just golf, trying to get better in
my golf game, whatever it might be. You're always trying
to improve on a daily basis, whether it's just reading
and know other it's just becoming remaining current and topics
of what's going on in our world today and having
an opinion on that. All this stuff, there's the there's
a curiosity factor, and philosophically, you're you know, you're trying
(43:29):
to align yourself and figure out what do I really
think while remaining open to change.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
All that stuff is really good.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But I do have some friends that will always reference
so at our age, I want to tell me, you
know what, you could you could stick that quite frankly,
because at our age, I mean it's just it is
a number, and we interpret that whoever would however we
would like. It could be an energetic and just as
energetic as it was twenty years ago, or it could
be like you know, it's a total retirement where you
(43:59):
just shuffle off out to the next whatever and really
you're just in waiting. So I and I agree with
that one, especially in today's world with all the different
advantages we have to stay in shape too, mentally and physically.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Why not.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, I'm with you, you know, at our age kind of thing.
You know, I think I got no use for that,
because all you're doing there is you're holding yourself to
normalize standards, which is basically turning yourself into average.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Who wants to be average?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I mean there's some people that are really okay with that,
and it's just a it's a learned behavior. I think
you know from years ago, and then all of a sudden,
whether you have to cut your hair a certain way,
you got to address a certain way. You talked about the
road trips in the past, different things that did with
the group. I mean, we devolve into this moment where
we think we have to act a certain way. The
way you have to act is how you feel, what
(44:48):
you believe in. That's how you act, and what is
your motivation on a daily basis, That's how you act.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
That's who you are.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So I to force different opinions on yourself based on
you know, other people's opinions, actually other people's judgments in
regards to what you should be like, how you should dress,
how you should think at this particular point in your life.
To me, that is extremely boring and very worthless, and
it definitely will get you to settle into some bad
routines way earlier.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Than you should.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Good stuff, Joe, and I know you mentioned this. I
love to surprise you with topics. You don't know what's
coming up, but I'm gonna break ranks right now and
give you a little hint that next week I think
I think we're probably gonna be talking about a certain
football game that is going to be played. Yeah, and
the differences which I find fascinating between baseball and football.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And that's not a George Carlin monologue, but it's more
about how you win championships in both sports. I think
we're gonna have to dive into that next week. So
I look forward to that.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Joe, awesome brother, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
See you next time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
All right, buddy, you will.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
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