February 7, 2023 • 42 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon welcoming former minor league baseball player Kenny Grant to the show. In the book, Joe wrote how he had to release Kenny from the Angels organization and how the event always stuck with him and impacted his life. Kenny reveals his life after baseball and how despite losing his love of the game, he has returned to coaching and is impacting young players. We include 'A Reading from The Book of Joe' where Tom suggests page 132, the chapter that Joe relives making a decision he now regrets.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the
Book of Joe podcasts. This is me Tom Berducci. I'm
here with Joe Madden. Every episode of the Book of
Joe is special, but Joe, I gotta say, I've been
(00:24):
looking forward to this one. This is extra special and
in some ways, this is the podcast you've been waiting
thirty four years for. Let's go back to nine spring
training gene Autry Park, Mesa, Arizona, and you, as the
minor league coordinator for the Angels, had to sit down
(00:46):
a young player and tell him his baseball dream was over.
And if you read the Book of Joe book, you
will understand listeners and readers why that was such an
emotional moment for Joe Madden. The imprint has remained all
these years, and now we unite Joe Madden with the
player he released, Kenny Grant. So, Joe, why don't you
(01:09):
introduce our guest Kenny Grant. Yeah, this is maybe the
greatest superstar we've had on our show to this point.
Like he said, this goes back into the eighties. Um,
I had just begun. I had been a manager in
a scott and minor league organization with the Angels. Then
it became a roving hitting instructor and the coordinator, so
I got to touch more players because of that. So
(01:33):
we're getting the late eighties there, and this young man
from Paterson, New Jersey Side High School as part of
the organization. I really thought that he had major league potential.
And again we were just talking about it this morning.
We're looking at all of his stats from what was
that eighty eight six and eighties seven. If he had
(01:53):
those two years like now, he'd have been been in
the most sought after minor league free agents if he
became a free agent or just a minor league player.
Based on those numbers today with the eventually and minutes
on base percentage was nuts. But beyond that, you think
that I always attracted me to Kenny was him, um
(02:13):
and you'll get you'll get that from the conversation today.
Just a really good fellow, very sincere, straight up played hard,
try to do everything right, and I I'm saying he
actually started to do that. I don't understand. I'm trying
to see her and figure out why we let him go.
I mean, I'm looking at these numbers I know, Kenny,
you made some errors at second base. I know that
(02:33):
I remember that, but but there were so many things
that you did well and the stuff that you did
is really sought after in today's game. So um, yes,
we ran him down. I did. I did. I cried
that day. We we we. I talked to you in
the office at do Notre Park, in that back office,
which was mine, I brought you and I can still
(02:55):
see you sitting in front of me, and I know
you were like like flabbery gas of what's going on,
because I know you didn't expect it either, So I
remember that clearly. It's uh, it's one of the mistakes
we made, and I made as a as a young
Angel minor league I guess executive at that time, or
coach or manage or whatever. But I, like Tommy said,
but wanting to get in touch with you. For so
(03:16):
many years we ran you down. Here you are and
thanks for coming on the show today, buddy. Great, great
to have you here. Thanks, no problem anytime. Hey, Kenny,
I I'm really interested. We'll get into your story. Um,
but I want to take you back to that day
in the Spraying Joe reference when you were released obviously
it was tough on Joe. Give me your recollections of
(03:39):
that day in the office with Joe Madden. Well, that day,
you know, we I think we just left the feel
and we went in his office. And I didn't know
why because I was having a pretty good spring. Uh.
I can't really recollect too much because I try to
forget a lot of it because I didn't believe it
(04:00):
was happening. But it was just a rough day, you know.
I just didn't understand it why, you know, I think
I was hitting about three something in the spring and
spring training, and then after Batton practice came in, he
talked to me, I didn't understand it. And that's it.
(04:20):
I mean, again, just looking at retrospectively, I wish I had.
I wish I'd remembered more of why. I do think
that we thought that defense played in that at some point.
I can't remember exactly what the conversation was about. But again,
as I'm looking at all this stuff today, that would
not have happened to Kenny you and not You're not
even let go with that kind of offensive ability and
your age. You're still very young at that time. You
(04:44):
were very very young, and uh, it just again, you're right,
it didn't make any sense. And the fact that you
had to go home, that's that's what really bother me.
I didn't know what was gonna happen. I guess ended
up with Minnesota a little bit and then back with US.
Yeah what Minnesota? And then uh yeah after that, I
think that season, yeah, I wanted back up in Quad Cities.
(05:06):
You know. Everything after that it was I just didn't
understand it because that year, the year before in Palm Springs, Yeah,
that that was my starting to breakout year where everything
was starting to come together to me. To whereas at
the end of the season, I was voted the best
second basement in the California League. And then after that,
(05:30):
about a year later, like you said, and now I
was out of baseball, and I'm like, why, you know,
is this weird? Let me throw this at you, because
I was looking at this this morning, and he's talking
about in the CALLI, which is really a very good
a ball league. From there, you're gonna you're gonna jump
to double A, which you should have done and eventually
triple A. But on his line across you had six
(05:50):
thirty nine plate appearances, which is a lot that means
you played almost every day. You did play every day.
Ten home runs. And I'm here to tell you Palm
Springs is like an airplane hang uh airport runway. It's huge,
it's very big. Into all didn't carry great. It was hot,
so over hundred degrees every night you play. Now, But
how about this though, And this is that I didn't
real realize I've forgotten. This is like, this is on me.
(06:13):
A hundred and seven walks and eighty five strikeouts in
a minor league season. That's stuff to me. When you
walk more than you strike out, that really says you
have an organized strike zone and you know how to
put the bat on the ball. So that led into
a two eight batting average of four oh six on
base uh four nineteen slug o ps. Brother, I'm telling you, man, Kenny,
(06:35):
that is really good stuff. And I I still like,
I wish I had better answers for you because I
don't because that's really a good year. And uh, at
that point that had it like kind of did that
really uh hurt your interest in playing the game because
it was so confusing to you. Yeah, it's after that,
I just I didn't even care for baseball really act
(06:56):
that it's uh, it hurt it because I didn't understand it.
You know, you see guys that made it, and we
were on the same team. You know, I'm like, how
is this? You know, we're on the same team. In
that year, I was a lead off. I was sitting
the lead off. Like I said, I know had Pete
Pete coachman. We had uh Fluff McLamore. They were ahead
(07:18):
of me. Fluff was there. He was you know, he
was up in the big leagues. But like I said, Um,
Bob Boone came down for rehab, Donnie Moore came down
for rehab. They seen me play and they said, within
two years man, or maybe late next year, we might
see you in the in the locker room book, you know,
because uh when they were there, they were there for
(07:40):
like maybe you know, we was on our homestead. One game,
I hit a double homer and I think a triple
and I played really defense because you gotta remember, coming
out of high school, I was a short stop and
then I went to third and then I wind up
moving the second. It took a little while for me
(08:02):
really the it, you know, because you're going from one
side of the field to the other So that took
a little just getting used to it. But like like
I said, after that, I didn't even want to play.
It took me a while to even it. Just wasn't
into it anymore. The fund was gone. Yeah. Yeah, let
me let me give you some numbers here, Joe, that
you mentioned here and Kennedy's last three seasons eight, his
(08:26):
on base percentages were four six, four oh six and
three seventy eight in seven that you mentioned with that
year at Palm Springs, he led the entire Angels organization
and played appearances was third and runs. He was one
of only six players in the organization who played a
hundred games and posted an on base percentage over four hundred.
(08:50):
The other five all made the major leagues. I mean,
these are really impressive numbers he's putting up. And in
the season, you know, in that same league he had
comparable numbers in terms of on base, if not better
to guys like Delono De Shields and Lenny Webster, Pat
listachh Todd Haney all made the major leagues, and some
(09:12):
of them didn't have his base percentage, which over his
career in the minors was three six seven. Uh and yeah,
and Kenny, You're absolutely right. I mean the year you
went to Minnesota, that was the season so released in
eighty nine. That was it. That was the end of
the road for Kenny Grant as a professional player at
the age of twenty three, with just these incredible he's
(09:33):
not bass machine. Um, so did you go home to Patterson, Kenny?
I I went to Sarasota. I started playing a little softball.
Then like, no, this is not for me. Then I
worked at Tropicana and then I like, you know know, I
got to be outside. So after that, I stayed in
(09:56):
Sarasota for about a year that I moved back to
Patterson and now you know, I'm driving the rolloff truck
for waste management. You know. So it worked do all right?
You know, not like you know, I wish it would have.
Like I said, I don't know what happened or with baseball.
But even now my interest in it is I don't
(10:16):
watch it. I coach it. You know. I'm coaching um
travel team, legit. You know, it took me a while
to even get into coaching, but I'm starting to get
back into it now. But the love of it is
still really not there. You know, Just why what happened.
I mean, you know sometimes you know when you hear
guys talk, I mean, everybody would think that it's sour grapes,
(10:36):
but in your case, it really is not. Um. I
can't emphasize it enough. And Tommy just pointed it out
had you been playing today, that the stuff would have
never have happened, and the different things that we valued
at that time. And quite frankly, I I really am
had a lost brother because I I was a big
fan of yours. I really was, but I probably should
have stood up more for you at that particular time
(10:56):
because we had that ability. That's that's when in the
minor league meetings, if a minor league manager coach, would
our instructors said, no, we're not going to release this guy.
He's staying, we would do that. You would somehow try
to make room for that guy, if somebody believe strongly enough.
It just bothers me a lot to hear all this
and the fact that even at that young age, you
(11:17):
chose not to continue, or that nobody gave you a chance.
That's that really boggles my mind because on top of that,
I want people to understand, this is a really good guy.
You're hearing that in his voice right now. He's a
great teammate, that guys loved him, very funny in his
own way without even trying, and played hard and played
every day. So again, Kenny, you're right on. I mean,
I understand why you would be, uh, you know, a
(11:38):
little bit off, turned off about the game for a
lot of different reasons. But your evaluations right on, and
I can't argue with it. And that's part of why.
Like with Tommy, I've been talking to me about you
a lot, and you you are in our book, um,
and it's kind of like this is kind of like
me saying I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry this happened to you.
I know it's not helping you right now, but you
were that good and you can tell your buddies and
(12:00):
if they want to talk to me, be happy to
that you were good enough to play in the big
leagues and wish you had gotten a better opportunity. You know,
things happened, but I just didn't understand it. You know.
It's you know, I played hard, I gave it everything
I had. You know, I left everything on the field,
and I know my skill level was there, but you know,
I just didn't understand it. And then after that I
(12:21):
really didn't care to play anymore, tell you the truth,
because I only wanted to play for one team. And
when I got dropped it, you were my first manager
to sell more again. And uh, I don't know if
you remember. We had this one old lady. She used
yelled out Jersey all the time. I came out because
she was from Jersey. But but like I said, I
learned a lot from you. Even now, my coaching style
(12:43):
is I take like I said, I watched it when
you were managing. I take a lot of that into
what I do now. You know, I had these two kids,
Uh so it Spinnerelli. Man, this kid he has it.
You know, I going to gym and he's working. His
dad is a state trooper. But man, he's one of
the kids that, like now, keeps me wanting to coach
(13:06):
because I see it in him, you know. But his
little brother, man, they're they're tough. But other than that,
you know, if it wasn't what I think them too,
I wouldn't even I wouldn't even do it. Yeah. Well,
I'm glad you're happy you are, man, because you have
a lot. You have a lot to give and you know,
even though it's a negative, bad experience, I mean, uh,
there's a lot to relate to these young players. And
(13:26):
even the fact that the amount of time that you
did play, you were you were impacted by a lot
of good players and coaches at time. Because I was there,
I know all that, and I love the fact that
you're taking it and passing it along. Um As as
a coach, how old are these kids are you're coaching
and fourteen? Perfect? Yeah, I can't deal with the younger ones.
(13:49):
You know. It's like when I get to the gym,
I'm teaching them what what I've learned, So they're getting
like professional instructions right away. It's like I tell him,
like saying, we have practice at five. I won't be
there at five. I be like, because at first, what
I do, I go over everything what I want him
to do, because when I get to the field, they
(14:11):
already stretched, and because I already have a game plan
when I get to the field. So now they're learning that.
So they're the one that's that's really keeping me going. Well, Kenny,
we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we are going to talk about the days when you
were kind of around that age when you were a
legend on the fields of Patterson, New Jersey. We'll be
(14:34):
right back. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Our guest is Kenny Grants, minor league player in the
California Angels system when Joe Madden was there, and I
mentioned a schoolboy legend at Patterson east Side High I want, Kenny,
(14:58):
want to want you to take us back to those days, because,
to be honest with you, it took the help of
the mayor of Patterson, Andre Say, to track you down
and get you on this podcast. But of course you
were an outstanding baseball player at east Side, hitting four
sixty six on the mound with a one point four
six e r A. There was one newspaper report that
(15:18):
had you as one of the best high school baseball
players in the country. And here comes the Angels in
the spring of three. They're drafting you in the tenth round.
Talk to me about that decision to sign with the
Angels at Paterson east Side. Well, with that, I didn't commit.
(15:39):
I had um offers, plenty of offers, but I had
narrowed it down to Georgia in Oklahoma State Coach Hill
my high school coach today, because I knew I was ready,
but I just didn't know. For one, I was a
little set getting drafted so low to me, maybe because
I didn't commit to college. You know, a lot of
(16:02):
kids should realize that commit to school. Then the brand
would would be higher. But my high school coach said, no,
you're ready. You know you don't need college. You're above
college level. That's still like training, and you know training
you to get better, and said right now is no
(16:22):
Go ahead and give it a try. He believed in me.
He said, Uh, just go do what you've been doing
and you should have no problem. Hey, Kenny, did you
play your games on hinge Cliff Field? Yeah? East Side
Park was our home field, but our aunt's rival, Kennedy
their home field was Hinchcliff, So I played a Hinchcliffe.
You know, pretty much in the States, we played the
Hinchcliff Because I asked you, because I know that the
(16:42):
Angels scout who signed you was a guy by the
name of ed Ford, and he watched you play on
what he said was such a terrible field. Yeah, you
handled the ball there, you were a professional baseball player. Yeah,
the turf was starting, uh to come up because of
the Patterson Great Falls. It was built right next to
the falls, and I guess the water to residue from
the water after a while got up underneath the turf.
(17:06):
It was rough. If you could pick the ball up there,
you could pick it up anywhere. Yeah, but I think
they're finished with it, so that might be a special
day for me to go back when they reopen it,
just to we'll pull up some memories. Yeah. It's They've
done a beautiful job renovating Hinchcliff Field, and the turf
has just now been put down. It is one of
(17:29):
two remain a Negro League ballparks. The other is rick
Quod Field in Birmingham, Alabama. It looks beautiful. H Kenny.
I'm curious where I know you have some older siblings
who played the game. How did you fall in love
with baseball? Just watching my brothers? My brother Charles, God
bless him. He was like one of the best ball
players I've seen in the seventies. He was He didn't
(17:52):
want to put put the Grant name on the mat
in parison. I mean he was a catcher. He played
varsity his freshman year, played varsity football his freshman year.
But he was throwing out runners in the seventies on
his knees and if the picture wouldn't do, you would
hit a right in ahead and I guess, you know,
just following behind him, and I just felt in love
with it the way he played. He would come home
(18:13):
from high school as a catcher and limping, getting spike ankle,
everything all bloody, And I said, you know what, that's
how I want to, you know, want to play the
game hard. And he bought a lot of that just
watching him play. That's great. And by the way, Kenny
had find a really fine arm. Also, you mentioned his
uh pitching statistics. But that's why I liked you at
(18:34):
third basically throw from that side of the field. I
thought you could. I thought you could have played anywhere
because for me, I was thinking about this too in
today's world that I had more experience at that time.
You're you would have been the perfect super utility guy
at that time. Mud have been perfect because you could
have played everywhere. You have the arm to do it,
you have to speed to do it, you had all
the different ingredients to do it. So that's that's really
interesting that your brother had such a wonderful arm too,
(18:54):
because we even talk about that you could really throw
to brother. Yeah, I think, uh, my first spring training,
I think what was his name, pig got Reggie, Reggie
Montgomery Montgomery right, he was playing. That was my first
spring twin. That was that third base right, and uh,
I didn't know they had a clock on me. He
(19:15):
hit one, I picked it through it the first and
I forgot who came up to me. I think it
was and he was a pitching coller. He said, you
know they called you from third to first Like I
didn't know. I was just cutting the ball loose. It
just came so fluently. I just you know, you can
(19:35):
throw me because I used to have them sit behind
the first baseman with the gun because I always wanted
to see how hard I did that as a scout
when I was scouting, even up in uh In, Utah.
Bring him young. Corey Snyder had a great arm and
while he join was playing first base, and I used
to just sit behind up in Provo just to get
some throwing uh speeds across the and and Snyder did
(19:56):
the same thing thrown across from shortstops. So it was
always curious to get like arm sprints just by that.
Uh just sneaking on the field with your gun like
that you could eventually find out, you know, the guys
got a good right. But then when you could validate
it and tell your Boston and he threw ninety three
across the diamond. That's pretty impressive. It just came so easy.
I mean it did. I know, Like you said, as
(20:18):
I got older, the games started becoming slower, easier, and
like everything was starting to be almost kind of like
high school. You know, I started having fun. But like
you said, after that day, man, it was when you
don't understand being so young and one day you're here,
next day you're gone. I'm like, what happened here? You
(20:39):
know what's wrong with this picture? So you know it
hurt it. But then, you know, I said, you know,
as I got older, you know, even to the day today,
it still bothers me. But like I said, these kids
they uh. I even talked to my wife about it
some time. I was telling about my best buddy, Tom Alfredson.
T uh. We were eight t and we had an apartment.
(21:03):
We didn't have a Salem Morga. We both got sent
back down from Peoria, so we got an apartment together.
At first, I didn't like the guy, and then you know,
we became roommates because you know, we knew each other
because we played prior. So we're walking from an apartment
to the field and uh, he's dipping, you know, like, hey,
(21:23):
let me try that. No, no, no, he said, you
don't want to. You don't want to do this. So
I bothered him enough. I guess I aggravated him. He said,
all right, here, he gave me a dip of Copenhagen
and Joe, I'm still dipping. Oh my god, I remember, man.
I remember. Hey, By the way, Tommy Alfredson had the
same kind of tools as dont David Schett. I thought
(21:44):
he might have had more power than Dot David Schett.
And that was one that was a big disappointment to
me that he he didn't get it done. I used
to call him boy George, if remember, because yeah, I
thought he had his chair like boy George at the time.
So I dropped the boy George on him. And one
day he made like five airs in one game at
shortstop in Salem. I love the guy that I loved, Tommy.
You still stay in touch with him? No, that's one
(22:07):
guy I really want to you know, try to run
him down for you too. But uh yeah, did he
went to the outfield? Yeah? Yeah, because he was not
good on the infield. And then he started that's when
he started putting the power. He started putting that power again.
It was it was really strong, really strong. Hey, Kenny,
I'm sitting here with a questionnaire that you filled out
(22:29):
in Night seven Kenneth Leon Grant from Patterson, New Jersey,
And there's a line here that asks for nicknames, and
for you, you wrote in ice Yeah. Tell me about that.
Tell me you know it started. I don't, Joe. I
(22:51):
think I got it from you, coach. I know you
called me Gumby, he called me Jersey. I think you
did in Tom Springs. I it just came. That's because
the game started becoming slow, and I guess just smooth
with it. I guess I don't know. Well, you never change,
You never changed. You never changed. I mean I never knew.
You don't know if you're in trouble or not. I
(23:12):
mean you even if you have a bad day, you're
still the same guy. Had a great day, You're still
the same guy. So maybe I came up with ice
Man because of that, because you were always on that
same plane and you people, we talked and you look right.
You always looked somebody right in the eye when you
spoke with him. Serious you're speaking to me. I can't
tell you having a good or bad day. I can't
tell if you're confused or not. I don't I don't
know if you've got this or not, because you always
(23:34):
had that same look, and you always listened. You always
listened to well. I thought everything was even till with
me is you can't be so high sol this to
stay on that even that even plane, you know, blright,
it's uh, this is one thing I want to bring
up to this day. I told my wife about it.
You guys want a road when I first got down Salem,
(23:57):
and so when you guys got back, I forgot the
the owner, but he found me back then we you know,
get was and saws with this old old lady, real nice,
great lady, and she was telling me about Eugene, Oregon.
And I'm like, huh, okay, So my first time ever
in the game, Joe put me in Eugene, Oregon. Man,
(24:19):
those fans were rough. My first bat. I remember it
like yesterday, my first a bat. I don't know where
I hit the ball too, but I took off running
out of the uh, out of the the batter's box. I
was so nervous my helmet fell down over my eyes,
I felt before I got the first and man, to
this day is I just can't forget it. Man, those
(24:39):
fans rode me so hard, and that that was kind
of a wake up calling. Hey, you're you're playing at
a different level now, and get it together guy. Well Eugene.
Eugene had a great crowds all the time because it
was like the standard down the first space side and
wrapped around a little bit. Yeah, that was the old
Triple A Ballpark for the Phillies back in the day
when they had some really good players. Yeah, it was
(25:00):
always packed. It was always five six thousand people in
Eugene for an a ball game, a rookie league game.
It was. It was a great place to play. Think
they were the Royals at that time. I think, yeah,
I know they were rough. They were I mean they
had I guess it was beer night. I don't know,
but it was. It was. That was rough. But that's
one of the memories. Man. I just tell my wife
(25:23):
and I just started laughing. You know, do I have regrets.
You know, one time I started hating baseball and I say,
you know what, Baseball didn't do this. You know, something
just happened that to me that shouldn't happen, and I
just didn't care for the game anymore. But now, like
I said, man, these kids, they got me starting to
get back into it. So it's it's all right. Hey, Kenny,
(25:45):
I'm wondering when you were growing up in Patterson, besides
your your older brothers, who are some of the guys,
if there were guys that you followed as sort of
role models as major league players where you said to yourself, hey,
I can do that, you know, I want to follow
that path, or in other words, do we have the
same opportunity these now, especially for you know, urban area kids,
(26:06):
African American kids, that some of the opportunities you had
or or or role models growing up? You know Ricky
Henderson because the way he hustle, you know, and that
was really about it. You know, we watched guys on
TV because we didn't have computers back then, so you know,
you have to watch what your father was watching. So
you know, I was a Yankee fan, you know, but
(26:27):
Ricky Henderson was my guy. But like the urban area,
these kids, baseball is too slow. I guess talent. Why
does you see the talent there? But I coached. I
have my old team, Duffy Boys. I think maybe I
have maybe one kid from the neighborhood, black kid. All
the other kids it's football, basketball, And you know, I
went to one payment. I said, you know your kids.
(26:48):
You know it was an athlete, you know, let him
on tryout for baseball. She told me, oh, no, my
son is never gonna play baseball because she didn't like it.
I was like, wow, like this is where it's not now. Huh.
So you know the parents right now? More like kids
want to go to games and see their kids run around, jump, shoot,
run through you know the holes. I guess because it's faster.
(27:11):
But the baseball is the best sport in the world.
You get longevity. But I don't know. I don't know
what to tell you. These kids, just kids in the
other neighborhoods, just don't want to play. Is there anything
you you might recommend to to turn that around? Tell
you the truth, though, I have no answers, especially if
you go to the parents. Sometimes the kid wants to play.
(27:32):
But like I said, the parents like, no, he has
football practice. You know, I don't want to interrupt with basketball,
Like you're two different seasons. I say, your kids, is
I see your husband, you're you're five to your husband
is maybe five eight? You know, I don't see no.
I don't see no five eight point guards anymore. Magic.
You know, magic Johnson magic Johnson rule did for all
(27:56):
the small guys in basketball. You know. But I guess
the parents want to be excited, you know, not tell
some parents is not the about you. You have to
give your kids as many opportunities. It's possible if he's
an athlete, let him play everything. But you know, they
cross out this, cross out that, and he's just gonna
do this. Okay, you're limited your kids, Kenny, That's interesting
(28:18):
that I never I thought, never thought of it from
that angle with the influence of the parents really not
wanting to play based on the stuff that you're saying,
because you're also talking about specialization where everybody needs to
specialize in one sport all year round primarily, and a
lot of the parents that do gather at these games
and these events, and again even dressed right down to
travel teams that are paying for your kid to play.
(28:40):
They're all looking to try to buy them into professional
sports and and eventually become a superstar in a major
major league baseball, football, basketball. But I never really heard
the take what you're talking about where the influence of
the parent actually is that we don't want them to
do that. We want them just to specialize in this
one or that one in And the part of the
you're talking, you're hitting the nail on the head with
(29:01):
the speed of the game or the pace of the game.
And that's why it's being addressed right now. So curiously
moving down at the end of the season, we'll we'll
talk again when you get to watch major league baseball
with the clock on it now, and the the fact
that the pace of the game should be improved. Curious
to take on it after that, where the the ball
should be put in play more consistent at least thrown
(29:23):
more rapidly, and see how people react to that, See
how you react to that, because now, like like we
talked earlier, I really don't even watch it, Holly, you know,
it's if a good Western design, I'll watch the Western
before I watch baseball. You get that from Bubba, Little
Bubba I taught you that's Addie Murphy, that's my guy.
(29:44):
But god, Ken, that is awesome. But the game changed
so much. Even now they have these kids with this
uh launch angle. You know, you got a kid nine
years old with a with a hole in his bat already,
you know, I mean, so we're gonna here, You're gonna
(30:04):
pop up to the shortstop. You know, like baseball it
is so different to hit. Remember we talked to hit
and run, Joe. I'll tell you right now, is I
killed teams with that. I played baseball the way I
think it should be played, the hit and run hitting.
If you catch your can throw still on you all day.
You know, coaches said, oh man, how you how you
(30:26):
win with that team? You work? You know, you got
to learn the kids. And I guess that's what happened
with me. You knew me, but you didn't really know
my demeanor or or really got to know the inside
of me is as as a person. But I think
I said, it still bothers me. But but that's all right. Now,
Everything is all right. You know, kid complain too much.
(30:46):
But the kids, the kids. Right now, I'm starting to
really get that into it. Baseball is starting to come
back to me. A little bit. Yeah, that's great to hear.
I love to hear it as well. We're going to
take a quick break, Kenny, and when we come back,
it is time for a reading from the Book of Joe.
H Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our
(31:14):
guest is Kenny Grant, minor league player for the California Angels.
And Kenny. Normally we have guests pick a number out
of the book and we read a page out of
the book. But in this case, I want to make
sure that we go back to the section of the
book where Joe writes and speaks very eloquently about the
day nine when he has farm director or coordinator released
(31:37):
you from the Angels organization. So I'm gonna make the
choice for you. This is a page one thirty two
of the Book of Joe. This is Joe Madden speaking
about releasing Kenny Grant. Of course I cried this one hurt.
Normally I'm really good at maintaining an emotional separation, but
sometimes you just can't. And there's this great line, I
(31:59):
love honesty without compassion equals cruelty. So you're honest, but
you never beat up or blow anybody up because you're honest,
and you pretty much know your students, your pupil. You
know what he can deal with and what he cannot.
So to what level you want to go to regarding
total honesty, go for it. And if you can't, be
aware of that too. But he's got to know the
(32:20):
straight up at what level you can present to him.
And I did, and I told him about pretty much.
They weren't getting there, and that's it. We shake hands,
he walks out the door, and you sit there and
you ask yourself, where did I screw up? Where did
I fail in this process? It's tough. It's tough because
I was that guy when I was released. It happened
(32:40):
in the wintertime. I was in Salinas and I got
that letter in the mail that the Angels were letting
me go. Apparently they were dropping a full club. I
guess twenty five or thirty of us were just lopped
off immediately. I think Mike Port was the purveyor of
the bad news, And of course I hated Michael at
that time. I wish I had an opportunity to be
in the same room with him. I mean, I had
(33:01):
that kind of fire. I don't think I would have
done anything, but you think you would, you get that
letter and then your dreams are absolutely crushed. That was
the winter of seventy. Of course, I was going to
be a player in the major leagues with the California Angels,
and Kenny probably thought the same thing. It's a tremendous
blow to your confidence and your ego. And that's the
(33:22):
beauty of my past. My professional baseball life was anything
but glamorous. I can empathize with anybody. When your ultimate
dream is crushed, that's tough. And when you're the purveyor
of or the crusher of that, wow, that is really hard.
And as I'm talking about it right now, I've got
to catch my breath a couple of times only because
I felt it and I still still feel it. There
(33:44):
you go, Kenny, Um, you probably didn't recognize how much
that affected Joe Madden, but here we are thirty four
years later, and Joe you probably can still feel it. Thanks, Thanks,
really appreciate it. Thanks happen. What do you gotta do?
You got you know, you gotta live, I hope. So
I'm glad to hear I'm really glad to hear that, Kenny.
(34:06):
I mean, I mean, like I said, it ate me
up for a while. Like I said, now is it
starting to find my way back a little bit? There's
there was there so many similarities, Kenn. I mean, you're
just expressing everything during this podcast, your own personal feelings
and thoughts on the moment and how it's impacted your
life afterwards, and even to the point now where it's
(34:27):
still there. You're kind of forgiven it, but it's still there.
I get it. I get it completely, and you've back
then that was I was very early on as my
as a coach and a mind league manager, scout whatever,
and uh, you guys were a lot closer to me
an age obviously than then. I even remembered her thought.
But there was such an impact, and yours was the first,
(34:50):
really in an a visceral way that I felt it
when we sat there and talked that day, And like
I said, it wouldn't be I knew you were a
good baseball player, and I knew it was too soon.
But I guess I said retrospectively, I should have fought harder.
I I really should have fought harder too. Had the
Aggles retain you at that point, because he's you you,
(35:10):
you would have played a long time brother. You would
have played, you would have played deeply. I don't know
if you'd have been a major league player, but we
definitely would have gotten a triple A, which would have
eventually given you that opportunity to get there. So, um, yeah,
it's it does it's things. It's still stings. Um, you
know I was wrong. We were wrong, and uh you were.
You were a lot better bite baseball player than just
a couple of years in eight ball. Thank you, thank you.
(35:32):
It's it's getting there. It's getting there. You know. I
coached him like how Like I said, I learned a
lot from you, and that's what I'm giving it. I'm
giving them everything that I've got. And you know, like
I told him, let me give you everything I have.
I want that back out of you, and I'm getting that.
So it's it's all right, it's all right. Well, it
(35:52):
just sounds like you're a wonderful family man. Your grandkids.
I have grandkids myself. I understand that. Um. I just
the thing that might take away people won't understand. But
like I've talked in to the same guy talked two
years ago. The thing I love, Kenny, you're really expressing
yourself so well. Uh. You know, back then, as a
young man and as a young player, you would definitely
not open up to me like you are right now.
(36:15):
And I'm impressed. I'm impressed with how you're expressing yourself.
I'm impressed. I feel I feel good for the people
in that particular area that's going to get you to
coach their kids because I know you're doing it for
all the right reasons. I know what your heart is
and your intellect and your knowledge. So just moving forward,
I've been I'm gonna definitely try to make it out
there when I get back East. I'll give you a
blast in advance to try to get out there and
(36:36):
visit with you guys. But I know you're gonna be
very successful with this, and I hope UM Baseball resonates
with you in a way again like it did prior
to that day when we let you go, because you
have so much stoffer to these kids. Hey, Kenny, really
appreciate it. Man. This was awesome. I'm so glad we're
able to find you get you on here, and uh,
I'm glad people get a chance to get to know
(36:57):
you through this podcast. So thanks so much, Thank you, guys.
I appreciate it. Well, Joe, that was quite a bit
with Kenny Grant. I'm so glad that we got him
on here. I'm sure it was. It was pretty powerful
for you. Huh. It was again not having heard him
in a while. He's a grown man last time I
saw him, he's a young man just leaving an an
roy baseball organization. But I was so impressed with his
(37:18):
uh ability to convey his thoughts, the fact that very
honest about the fact that was kind of baseball beat
him up a little bit right there, cut him a
little bit, and he's trying to let him back in
right now. I was trying to let the game back
in and he's doing it through teaching and coaching. Um.
It was just resonated to me, and I was reminded
of what a good guy this guy is, just a
(37:39):
good person. Uh and and then and again it reminds
me of why I enjoyed being around him so much
and why I felt that I felt the day that
we let him go. I'm definitely gonna make an attempt
to get to see him when I get when we
get back east this summer again. But God, that was
it was powerful and I really hope people take the
(38:00):
time to listen to that because he he does cover
some really interesting points there too. And uh, the fact
that he's been able to move on without any kind
of really real animosity for the game in a way
for giving us for I really believe we messed it up.
We did. And now he's making this comeback in his
late fifties and getting back involved with the game and
(38:22):
passed it along. I love it, absolutely love it. Yeah,
it makes me wonder how many other Kenny Grants were
out there in the eighties, when let's face it, we
have better ways to evaluate the value and contributions of
a player. You know, at the time, you know, it
was batting average, it was runs bettered in, not a
lot of attention being paid to just the art of
(38:42):
getting on base, and that was one of Kenny's best skills.
A guy who can play multiple positions, run well and
get on base. Was it a big power guy. But
back in the day that wasn't valued as much as
it as it was now. So maybe out of his time,
and hopefully now baseball is getting back to a game
that's going to have more Kenny Grants in it, with
room for guys who get on base, ath let us,
(39:04):
some speed, positional flexibility, all valued. I love the way
he said he's beating up other teams with the hit
and run. It's stole the basis, what are you doing
over there with those guys? That's so good. We talked
briefly the other day when I when I reconnected with
them and we started ramblings and then no, no hold back.
I don't I want you to say all this stuff
on the on the podcast, and he did. It's, Um,
(39:26):
you know, you don't even realize the impact you're making
on people at certain times. Um, you know, I'm the
coach and the manager, all that kind of good stuff.
But you do, you leave, You leave a mark, and
hopefully it's a positive one. Speaking of leaving marks, you
got one to leave on this episode of the Book
of Joe. Yeah, I think it. I think it kind
of applies. And it's one of my favorite quote quotable
(39:47):
people Winston Churchill. The pessimists sees difficulty and every opportunity,
and the optimists sees the opportunity and every difficulty. Pretty
much where Kenny's at right now and how he's conducted
his life from that moment on and again you can't
under under estimate that this is that you've heard the
passion in his voice and the dreams. And I can't
(40:09):
believe he didn't play after that. I mean, I really
can't believe that nobody gave him another opportunity, or maybe
he was just so turned off that he chose to
do something else. He said, he tried softball whatever. Uh,
it's you just gotta be careful, man. You gotta be careful.
You gotta be with your evaluations. Never make them cavalier
because you're impacting lives. Obviously, now his has turned out well.
(40:30):
He sounds very happy. But he talked about Mark mckamah,
that's what we called fluff and some other guys that
achieved the big leagues while he was there. Pete Coachman
could hit it was there was a nice group back then.
It was a really good group. So I love the
fact that he's he doesn't harbor uh resentment so badly
that he can't forgive and let the game back in
(40:52):
and now he's ready to pass it along to others.
I think it's outstanding. Absolutely. I could see him smiling
as he spoke, and hopefully he keeps that here going
especially with the young kids. That's who he is. Hey,
you've got an upcoming exciting event you should know about.
It's the Savannah Book Festival. Joe and I will be
at the Savannah Book Festival to make our presentation on
(41:13):
the Book of Joe. You're more than welcome to join.
It's a huge weekend in Savannah. Many different authors will
be there talking about their books, doing readings, taking questions.
It's a great place to listen to not just us,
but many other authors. So check it out Saturday February
in Savannah, Georgia. Looking forward to that, Joe, same here, Tommy.
(41:34):
It's going to be quite an experience for me. This
is something you're kind of used to. This is uh
fish shout of water from you. But I'm looking forward
to it, and it's a great place to get your
book signed. We will be signing books at the event,
so put that on your calendar. A couple of good
golf courses nearby from what I understand, so it'll be
a good couple of days. It sounds great. I'll see
you next time on the Book of Joey. The Book
(41:58):
of Joe podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the
Book of Joe podcasts. This is me Tom Berducci. I'm
here with Joe Madden. Every episode of the Book of
Joe is special, but Joe, I gotta say, I've been
(00:24):
looking forward to this one. This is extra special and
in some ways, this is the podcast you've been waiting
thirty four years for. Let's go back to nine spring
training gene Autry Park, Mesa, Arizona, and you, as the
minor league coordinator for the Angels, had to sit down
(00:46):
a young player and tell him his baseball dream was over.
And if you read the Book of Joe book, you
will understand listeners and readers why that was such an
emotional moment for Joe Madden. The imprint has remained all
these years, and now we unite Joe Madden with the
player he released, Kenny Grant. So, Joe, why don't you
(01:09):
introduce our guest Kenny Grant. Yeah, this is maybe the
greatest superstar we've had on our show to this point.
Like he said, this goes back into the eighties. Um,
I had just begun. I had been a manager in
a scott and minor league organization with the Angels. Then
it became a roving hitting instructor and the coordinator, so
I got to touch more players because of that. So
(01:33):
we're getting the late eighties there, and this young man
from Paterson, New Jersey Side High School as part of
the organization. I really thought that he had major league potential.
And again we were just talking about it this morning.
We're looking at all of his stats from what was
that eighty eight six and eighties seven. If he had
(01:53):
those two years like now, he'd have been been in
the most sought after minor league free agents if he
became a free agent or just a minor league player.
Based on those numbers today with the eventually and minutes
on base percentage was nuts. But beyond that, you think
that I always attracted me to Kenny was him, um
(02:13):
and you'll get you'll get that from the conversation today.
Just a really good fellow, very sincere, straight up played hard,
try to do everything right, and I I'm saying he
actually started to do that. I don't understand. I'm trying
to see her and figure out why we let him go.
I mean, I'm looking at these numbers I know, Kenny,
you made some errors at second base. I know that
(02:33):
I remember that, but but there were so many things
that you did well and the stuff that you did
is really sought after in today's game. So um, yes,
we ran him down. I did. I did. I cried
that day. We we we. I talked to you in
the office at do Notre Park, in that back office,
which was mine, I brought you and I can still
(02:55):
see you sitting in front of me, and I know
you were like like flabbery gas of what's going on,
because I know you didn't expect it either, So I
remember that clearly. It's uh, it's one of the mistakes
we made, and I made as a as a young
Angel minor league I guess executive at that time, or
coach or manage or whatever. But I, like Tommy said,
but wanting to get in touch with you. For so
(03:16):
many years we ran you down. Here you are and
thanks for coming on the show today, buddy. Great, great
to have you here. Thanks, no problem anytime. Hey, Kenny,
I I'm really interested. We'll get into your story. Um,
but I want to take you back to that day
in the Spraying Joe reference when you were released obviously
it was tough on Joe. Give me your recollections of
(03:39):
that day in the office with Joe Madden. Well, that day,
you know, we I think we just left the feel
and we went in his office. And I didn't know
why because I was having a pretty good spring. Uh.
I can't really recollect too much because I try to
forget a lot of it because I didn't believe it
(04:00):
was happening. But it was just a rough day, you know.
I just didn't understand it why, you know, I think
I was hitting about three something in the spring and
spring training, and then after Batton practice came in, he
talked to me, I didn't understand it. And that's it.
(04:20):
I mean, again, just looking at retrospectively, I wish I had.
I wish I'd remembered more of why. I do think
that we thought that defense played in that at some point.
I can't remember exactly what the conversation was about. But again,
as I'm looking at all this stuff today, that would
not have happened to Kenny you and not You're not
even let go with that kind of offensive ability and
your age. You're still very young at that time. You
(04:44):
were very very young, and uh, it just again, you're right,
it didn't make any sense. And the fact that you
had to go home, that's that's what really bother me.
I didn't know what was gonna happen. I guess ended
up with Minnesota a little bit and then back with US.
Yeah what Minnesota? And then uh yeah after that, I
think that season, yeah, I wanted back up in Quad Cities.
(05:06):
You know. Everything after that it was I just didn't
understand it because that year, the year before in Palm Springs, Yeah,
that that was my starting to breakout year where everything
was starting to come together to me. To whereas at
the end of the season, I was voted the best
second basement in the California League. And then after that,
(05:30):
about a year later, like you said, and now I
was out of baseball, and I'm like, why, you know,
is this weird? Let me throw this at you, because
I was looking at this this morning, and he's talking
about in the CALLI, which is really a very good
a ball league. From there, you're gonna you're gonna jump
to double A, which you should have done and eventually
triple A. But on his line across you had six
(05:50):
thirty nine plate appearances, which is a lot that means
you played almost every day. You did play every day.
Ten home runs. And I'm here to tell you Palm
Springs is like an airplane hang uh airport runway. It's huge,
it's very big. Into all didn't carry great. It was hot,
so over hundred degrees every night you play. Now, But
how about this though, And this is that I didn't
real realize I've forgotten. This is like, this is on me.
(06:13):
A hundred and seven walks and eighty five strikeouts in
a minor league season. That's stuff to me. When you
walk more than you strike out, that really says you
have an organized strike zone and you know how to
put the bat on the ball. So that led into
a two eight batting average of four oh six on
base uh four nineteen slug o ps. Brother, I'm telling you, man, Kenny,
(06:35):
that is really good stuff. And I I still like,
I wish I had better answers for you because I
don't because that's really a good year. And uh, at
that point that had it like kind of did that
really uh hurt your interest in playing the game because
it was so confusing to you. Yeah, it's after that,
I just I didn't even care for baseball really act
(06:56):
that it's uh, it hurt it because I didn't understand it.
You know, you see guys that made it, and we
were on the same team. You know, I'm like, how
is this? You know, we're on the same team. In
that year, I was a lead off. I was sitting
the lead off. Like I said, I know had Pete
Pete coachman. We had uh Fluff McLamore. They were ahead
(07:18):
of me. Fluff was there. He was you know, he
was up in the big leagues. But like I said, Um,
Bob Boone came down for rehab, Donnie Moore came down
for rehab. They seen me play and they said, within
two years man, or maybe late next year, we might
see you in the in the locker room book, you know,
because uh when they were there, they were there for
(07:40):
like maybe you know, we was on our homestead. One game,
I hit a double homer and I think a triple
and I played really defense because you gotta remember, coming
out of high school, I was a short stop and
then I went to third and then I wind up
moving the second. It took a little while for me
(08:02):
really the it, you know, because you're going from one
side of the field to the other So that took
a little just getting used to it. But like like
I said, after that, I didn't even want to play.
It took me a while to even it. Just wasn't
into it anymore. The fund was gone. Yeah. Yeah, let
me let me give you some numbers here, Joe, that
you mentioned here and Kennedy's last three seasons eight, his
(08:26):
on base percentages were four six, four oh six and
three seventy eight in seven that you mentioned with that
year at Palm Springs, he led the entire Angels organization
and played appearances was third and runs. He was one
of only six players in the organization who played a
hundred games and posted an on base percentage over four hundred.
(08:50):
The other five all made the major leagues. I mean,
these are really impressive numbers he's putting up. And in
the season, you know, in that same league he had
comparable numbers in terms of on base, if not better
to guys like Delono De Shields and Lenny Webster, Pat
listachh Todd Haney all made the major leagues, and some
(09:12):
of them didn't have his base percentage, which over his
career in the minors was three six seven. Uh and yeah,
and Kenny, You're absolutely right. I mean the year you
went to Minnesota, that was the season so released in
eighty nine. That was it. That was the end of
the road for Kenny Grant as a professional player at
the age of twenty three, with just these incredible he's
(09:33):
not bass machine. Um, so did you go home to Patterson, Kenny?
I I went to Sarasota. I started playing a little softball.
Then like, no, this is not for me. Then I
worked at Tropicana and then I like, you know know, I
got to be outside. So after that, I stayed in
(09:56):
Sarasota for about a year that I moved back to
Patterson and now you know, I'm driving the rolloff truck
for waste management. You know. So it worked do all right?
You know, not like you know, I wish it would have.
Like I said, I don't know what happened or with baseball.
But even now my interest in it is I don't
(10:16):
watch it. I coach it. You know. I'm coaching um
travel team, legit. You know, it took me a while
to even get into coaching, but I'm starting to get
back into it now. But the love of it is
still really not there. You know, Just why what happened.
I mean, you know sometimes you know when you hear
guys talk, I mean, everybody would think that it's sour grapes,
(10:36):
but in your case, it really is not. Um. I
can't emphasize it enough. And Tommy just pointed it out
had you been playing today, that the stuff would have
never have happened, and the different things that we valued
at that time. And quite frankly, I I really am
had a lost brother because I I was a big
fan of yours. I really was, but I probably should
have stood up more for you at that particular time
(10:56):
because we had that ability. That's that's when in the
minor league meetings, if a minor league manager coach, would
our instructors said, no, we're not going to release this guy.
He's staying, we would do that. You would somehow try
to make room for that guy, if somebody believe strongly enough.
It just bothers me a lot to hear all this
and the fact that even at that young age, you
(11:17):
chose not to continue, or that nobody gave you a chance.
That's that really boggles my mind because on top of that,
I want people to understand, this is a really good guy.
You're hearing that in his voice right now. He's a
great teammate, that guys loved him, very funny in his
own way without even trying, and played hard and played
every day. So again, Kenny, you're right on. I mean,
I understand why you would be, uh, you know, a
(11:38):
little bit off, turned off about the game for a
lot of different reasons. But your evaluations right on, and
I can't argue with it. And that's part of why.
Like with Tommy, I've been talking to me about you
a lot, and you you are in our book, um,
and it's kind of like this is kind of like
me saying I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry this happened to you.
I know it's not helping you right now, but you
were that good and you can tell your buddies and
(12:00):
if they want to talk to me, be happy to
that you were good enough to play in the big
leagues and wish you had gotten a better opportunity. You know,
things happened, but I just didn't understand it. You know.
It's you know, I played hard, I gave it everything
I had. You know, I left everything on the field,
and I know my skill level was there, but you know,
I just didn't understand it. And then after that I
(12:21):
really didn't care to play anymore, tell you the truth,
because I only wanted to play for one team. And
when I got dropped it, you were my first manager
to sell more again. And uh, I don't know if
you remember. We had this one old lady. She used
yelled out Jersey all the time. I came out because
she was from Jersey. But but like I said, I
learned a lot from you. Even now, my coaching style
(12:43):
is I take like I said, I watched it when
you were managing. I take a lot of that into
what I do now. You know, I had these two kids,
Uh so it Spinnerelli. Man, this kid he has it.
You know, I going to gym and he's working. His
dad is a state trooper. But man, he's one of
the kids that, like now, keeps me wanting to coach
(13:06):
because I see it in him, you know. But his
little brother, man, they're they're tough. But other than that,
you know, if it wasn't what I think them too,
I wouldn't even I wouldn't even do it. Yeah. Well,
I'm glad you're happy you are, man, because you have
a lot. You have a lot to give and you know,
even though it's a negative, bad experience, I mean, uh,
there's a lot to relate to these young players. And
(13:26):
even the fact that the amount of time that you
did play, you were you were impacted by a lot
of good players and coaches at time. Because I was there,
I know all that, and I love the fact that
you're taking it and passing it along. Um As as
a coach, how old are these kids are you're coaching
and fourteen? Perfect? Yeah, I can't deal with the younger ones.
(13:49):
You know. It's like when I get to the gym,
I'm teaching them what what I've learned, So they're getting
like professional instructions right away. It's like I tell him,
like saying, we have practice at five. I won't be
there at five. I be like, because at first, what
I do, I go over everything what I want him
to do, because when I get to the field, they
(14:11):
already stretched, and because I already have a game plan
when I get to the field. So now they're learning that.
So they're the one that's that's really keeping me going. Well, Kenny,
we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we are going to talk about the days when you
were kind of around that age when you were a
legend on the fields of Patterson, New Jersey. We'll be
(14:34):
right back. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Our guest is Kenny Grants, minor league player in the
California Angels system when Joe Madden was there, and I
mentioned a schoolboy legend at Patterson east Side High I want, Kenny,
(14:58):
want to want you to take us back to those days, because,
to be honest with you, it took the help of
the mayor of Patterson, Andre Say, to track you down
and get you on this podcast. But of course you
were an outstanding baseball player at east Side, hitting four
sixty six on the mound with a one point four
six e r A. There was one newspaper report that
(15:18):
had you as one of the best high school baseball
players in the country. And here comes the Angels in
the spring of three. They're drafting you in the tenth round.
Talk to me about that decision to sign with the
Angels at Paterson east Side. Well, with that, I didn't commit.
(15:39):
I had um offers, plenty of offers, but I had
narrowed it down to Georgia in Oklahoma State Coach Hill
my high school coach today, because I knew I was ready,
but I just didn't know. For one, I was a
little set getting drafted so low to me, maybe because
I didn't commit to college. You know, a lot of
(16:02):
kids should realize that commit to school. Then the brand
would would be higher. But my high school coach said, no,
you're ready. You know you don't need college. You're above
college level. That's still like training, and you know training
you to get better, and said right now is no
(16:22):
Go ahead and give it a try. He believed in me.
He said, Uh, just go do what you've been doing
and you should have no problem. Hey, Kenny, did you
play your games on hinge Cliff Field? Yeah? East Side
Park was our home field, but our aunt's rival, Kennedy
their home field was Hinchcliff, So I played a Hinchcliffe.
You know, pretty much in the States, we played the
Hinchcliff Because I asked you, because I know that the
(16:42):
Angels scout who signed you was a guy by the
name of ed Ford, and he watched you play on
what he said was such a terrible field. Yeah, you
handled the ball there, you were a professional baseball player. Yeah,
the turf was starting, uh to come up because of
the Patterson Great Falls. It was built right next to
the falls, and I guess the water to residue from
the water after a while got up underneath the turf.
(17:06):
It was rough. If you could pick the ball up there,
you could pick it up anywhere. Yeah, but I think
they're finished with it, so that might be a special
day for me to go back when they reopen it,
just to we'll pull up some memories. Yeah. It's They've
done a beautiful job renovating Hinchcliff Field, and the turf
has just now been put down. It is one of
(17:29):
two remain a Negro League ballparks. The other is rick
Quod Field in Birmingham, Alabama. It looks beautiful. H Kenny.
I'm curious where I know you have some older siblings
who played the game. How did you fall in love
with baseball? Just watching my brothers? My brother Charles, God
bless him. He was like one of the best ball
players I've seen in the seventies. He was He didn't
(17:52):
want to put put the Grant name on the mat
in parison. I mean he was a catcher. He played
varsity his freshman year, played varsity football his freshman year.
But he was throwing out runners in the seventies on
his knees and if the picture wouldn't do, you would
hit a right in ahead and I guess, you know,
just following behind him, and I just felt in love
with it the way he played. He would come home
(18:13):
from high school as a catcher and limping, getting spike ankle,
everything all bloody, And I said, you know what, that's
how I want to, you know, want to play the
game hard. And he bought a lot of that just
watching him play. That's great. And by the way, Kenny
had find a really fine arm. Also, you mentioned his
uh pitching statistics. But that's why I liked you at
(18:34):
third basically throw from that side of the field. I
thought you could. I thought you could have played anywhere
because for me, I was thinking about this too in
today's world that I had more experience at that time.
You're you would have been the perfect super utility guy
at that time. Mud have been perfect because you could
have played everywhere. You have the arm to do it,
you have to speed to do it, you had all
the different ingredients to do it. So that's that's really
interesting that your brother had such a wonderful arm too,
(18:54):
because we even talk about that you could really throw
to brother. Yeah, I think, uh, my first spring training,
I think what was his name, pig got Reggie, Reggie
Montgomery Montgomery right, he was playing. That was my first
spring twin. That was that third base right, and uh,
I didn't know they had a clock on me. He
(19:15):
hit one, I picked it through it the first and
I forgot who came up to me. I think it
was and he was a pitching coller. He said, you
know they called you from third to first Like I
didn't know. I was just cutting the ball loose. It
just came so fluently. I just you know, you can
(19:35):
throw me because I used to have them sit behind
the first baseman with the gun because I always wanted
to see how hard I did that as a scout
when I was scouting, even up in uh In, Utah.
Bring him young. Corey Snyder had a great arm and
while he join was playing first base, and I used
to just sit behind up in Provo just to get
some throwing uh speeds across the and and Snyder did
(19:56):
the same thing thrown across from shortstops. So it was
always curious to get like arm sprints just by that.
Uh just sneaking on the field with your gun like
that you could eventually find out, you know, the guys
got a good right. But then when you could validate
it and tell your Boston and he threw ninety three
across the diamond. That's pretty impressive. It just came so easy.
I mean it did. I know, Like you said, as
(20:18):
I got older, the games started becoming slower, easier, and
like everything was starting to be almost kind of like
high school. You know, I started having fun. But like
you said, after that day, man, it was when you
don't understand being so young and one day you're here,
next day you're gone. I'm like, what happened here? You
(20:39):
know what's wrong with this picture? So you know it
hurt it. But then, you know, I said, you know,
as I got older, you know, even to the day today,
it still bothers me. But like I said, these kids
they uh. I even talked to my wife about it
some time. I was telling about my best buddy, Tom Alfredson.
T uh. We were eight t and we had an apartment.
(21:03):
We didn't have a Salem Morga. We both got sent
back down from Peoria, so we got an apartment together.
At first, I didn't like the guy, and then you know,
we became roommates because you know, we knew each other
because we played prior. So we're walking from an apartment
to the field and uh, he's dipping, you know, like, hey,
(21:23):
let me try that. No, no, no, he said, you
don't want to. You don't want to do this. So
I bothered him enough. I guess I aggravated him. He said,
all right, here, he gave me a dip of Copenhagen
and Joe, I'm still dipping. Oh my god, I remember, man.
I remember. Hey, By the way, Tommy Alfredson had the
same kind of tools as dont David Schett. I thought
(21:44):
he might have had more power than Dot David Schett.
And that was one that was a big disappointment to
me that he he didn't get it done. I used
to call him boy George, if remember, because yeah, I
thought he had his chair like boy George at the time.
So I dropped the boy George on him. And one
day he made like five airs in one game at
shortstop in Salem. I love the guy that I loved, Tommy.
You still stay in touch with him? No, that's one
(22:07):
guy I really want to you know, try to run
him down for you too. But uh yeah, did he
went to the outfield? Yeah? Yeah, because he was not
good on the infield. And then he started that's when
he started putting the power. He started putting that power again.
It was it was really strong, really strong. Hey, Kenny,
I'm sitting here with a questionnaire that you filled out
(22:29):
in Night seven Kenneth Leon Grant from Patterson, New Jersey,
And there's a line here that asks for nicknames, and
for you, you wrote in ice Yeah. Tell me about that.
Tell me you know it started. I don't, Joe. I
(22:51):
think I got it from you, coach. I know you
called me Gumby, he called me Jersey. I think you
did in Tom Springs. I it just came. That's because
the game started becoming slow, and I guess just smooth
with it. I guess I don't know. Well, you never change,
You never changed. You never changed. I mean I never knew.
You don't know if you're in trouble or not. I
(23:12):
mean you even if you have a bad day, you're
still the same guy. Had a great day, You're still
the same guy. So maybe I came up with ice
Man because of that, because you were always on that
same plane and you people, we talked and you look right.
You always looked somebody right in the eye when you
spoke with him. Serious you're speaking to me. I can't
tell you having a good or bad day. I can't
tell if you're confused or not. I don't I don't
know if you've got this or not, because you always
(23:34):
had that same look, and you always listened. You always
listened to well. I thought everything was even till with
me is you can't be so high sol this to
stay on that even that even plane, you know, blright,
it's uh, this is one thing I want to bring
up to this day. I told my wife about it.
You guys want a road when I first got down Salem,
(23:57):
and so when you guys got back, I forgot the
the owner, but he found me back then we you know,
get was and saws with this old old lady, real nice,
great lady, and she was telling me about Eugene, Oregon.
And I'm like, huh, okay, So my first time ever
in the game, Joe put me in Eugene, Oregon. Man,
(24:19):
those fans were rough. My first bat. I remember it
like yesterday, my first a bat. I don't know where
I hit the ball too, but I took off running
out of the uh, out of the the batter's box. I
was so nervous my helmet fell down over my eyes,
I felt before I got the first and man, to
this day is I just can't forget it. Man, those
(24:39):
fans rode me so hard, and that that was kind
of a wake up calling. Hey, you're you're playing at
a different level now, and get it together guy. Well Eugene.
Eugene had a great crowds all the time because it
was like the standard down the first space side and
wrapped around a little bit. Yeah, that was the old
Triple A Ballpark for the Phillies back in the day
when they had some really good players. Yeah, it was
(25:00):
always packed. It was always five six thousand people in
Eugene for an a ball game, a rookie league game.
It was. It was a great place to play. Think
they were the Royals at that time. I think, yeah,
I know they were rough. They were I mean they
had I guess it was beer night. I don't know,
but it was. It was. That was rough. But that's
one of the memories. Man. I just tell my wife
(25:23):
and I just started laughing. You know, do I have regrets.
You know, one time I started hating baseball and I say,
you know what, Baseball didn't do this. You know, something
just happened that to me that shouldn't happen, and I
just didn't care for the game anymore. But now, like
I said, man, these kids, they got me starting to
get back into it. So it's it's all right. Hey, Kenny,
(25:45):
I'm wondering when you were growing up in Patterson, besides
your your older brothers, who are some of the guys,
if there were guys that you followed as sort of
role models as major league players where you said to yourself, hey,
I can do that, you know, I want to follow
that path, or in other words, do we have the
same opportunity these now, especially for you know, urban area kids,
(26:06):
African American kids, that some of the opportunities you had
or or or role models growing up? You know Ricky
Henderson because the way he hustle, you know, and that
was really about it. You know, we watched guys on
TV because we didn't have computers back then, so you know,
you have to watch what your father was watching. So
you know, I was a Yankee fan, you know, but
(26:27):
Ricky Henderson was my guy. But like the urban area,
these kids, baseball is too slow. I guess talent. Why
does you see the talent there? But I coached. I
have my old team, Duffy Boys. I think maybe I
have maybe one kid from the neighborhood, black kid. All
the other kids it's football, basketball, And you know, I
went to one payment. I said, you know your kids.
(26:48):
You know it was an athlete, you know, let him
on tryout for baseball. She told me, oh, no, my
son is never gonna play baseball because she didn't like it.
I was like, wow, like this is where it's not now. Huh.
So you know the parents right now? More like kids
want to go to games and see their kids run around, jump, shoot,
run through you know the holes. I guess because it's faster.
(27:11):
But the baseball is the best sport in the world.
You get longevity. But I don't know. I don't know
what to tell you. These kids, just kids in the
other neighborhoods, just don't want to play. Is there anything
you you might recommend to to turn that around? Tell
you the truth, though, I have no answers, especially if
you go to the parents. Sometimes the kid wants to play.
(27:32):
But like I said, the parents like, no, he has
football practice. You know, I don't want to interrupt with basketball,
Like you're two different seasons. I say, your kids, is
I see your husband, you're you're five to your husband
is maybe five eight? You know, I don't see no.
I don't see no five eight point guards anymore. Magic.
You know, magic Johnson magic Johnson rule did for all
(27:56):
the small guys in basketball. You know. But I guess
the parents want to be excited, you know, not tell
some parents is not the about you. You have to
give your kids as many opportunities. It's possible if he's
an athlete, let him play everything. But you know, they
cross out this, cross out that, and he's just gonna
do this. Okay, you're limited your kids, Kenny, That's interesting
(28:18):
that I never I thought, never thought of it from
that angle with the influence of the parents really not
wanting to play based on the stuff that you're saying,
because you're also talking about specialization where everybody needs to
specialize in one sport all year round primarily, and a
lot of the parents that do gather at these games
and these events, and again even dressed right down to
travel teams that are paying for your kid to play.
(28:40):
They're all looking to try to buy them into professional
sports and and eventually become a superstar in a major
major league baseball, football, basketball. But I never really heard
the take what you're talking about where the influence of
the parent actually is that we don't want them to
do that. We want them just to specialize in this
one or that one in And the part of the
you're talking, you're hitting the nail on the head with
(29:01):
the speed of the game or the pace of the game.
And that's why it's being addressed right now. So curiously
moving down at the end of the season, we'll we'll
talk again when you get to watch major league baseball
with the clock on it now, and the the fact
that the pace of the game should be improved. Curious
to take on it after that, where the the ball
should be put in play more consistent at least thrown
(29:23):
more rapidly, and see how people react to that, See
how you react to that, because now, like like we
talked earlier, I really don't even watch it, Holly, you know,
it's if a good Western design, I'll watch the Western
before I watch baseball. You get that from Bubba, Little
Bubba I taught you that's Addie Murphy, that's my guy.
(29:44):
But god, Ken, that is awesome. But the game changed
so much. Even now they have these kids with this
uh launch angle. You know, you got a kid nine
years old with a with a hole in his bat already,
you know, I mean, so we're gonna here, You're gonna
(30:04):
pop up to the shortstop. You know, like baseball it
is so different to hit. Remember we talked to hit
and run, Joe. I'll tell you right now, is I
killed teams with that. I played baseball the way I
think it should be played, the hit and run hitting.
If you catch your can throw still on you all day.
You know, coaches said, oh man, how you how you
(30:26):
win with that team? You work? You know, you got
to learn the kids. And I guess that's what happened
with me. You knew me, but you didn't really know
my demeanor or or really got to know the inside
of me is as as a person. But I think
I said, it still bothers me. But but that's all right. Now,
Everything is all right. You know, kid complain too much.
(30:46):
But the kids, the kids. Right now, I'm starting to
really get that into it. Baseball is starting to come
back to me. A little bit. Yeah, that's great to hear.
I love to hear it as well. We're going to
take a quick break, Kenny, and when we come back,
it is time for a reading from the Book of Joe.
H Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our
(31:14):
guest is Kenny Grant, minor league player for the California Angels.
And Kenny. Normally we have guests pick a number out
of the book and we read a page out of
the book. But in this case, I want to make
sure that we go back to the section of the
book where Joe writes and speaks very eloquently about the
day nine when he has farm director or coordinator released
(31:37):
you from the Angels organization. So I'm gonna make the
choice for you. This is a page one thirty two
of the Book of Joe. This is Joe Madden speaking
about releasing Kenny Grant. Of course I cried this one hurt.
Normally I'm really good at maintaining an emotional separation, but
sometimes you just can't. And there's this great line, I
(31:59):
love honesty without compassion equals cruelty. So you're honest, but
you never beat up or blow anybody up because you're honest,
and you pretty much know your students, your pupil. You
know what he can deal with and what he cannot.
So to what level you want to go to regarding
total honesty, go for it. And if you can't, be
aware of that too. But he's got to know the
(32:20):
straight up at what level you can present to him.
And I did, and I told him about pretty much.
They weren't getting there, and that's it. We shake hands,
he walks out the door, and you sit there and
you ask yourself, where did I screw up? Where did
I fail in this process? It's tough. It's tough because
I was that guy when I was released. It happened
(32:40):
in the wintertime. I was in Salinas and I got
that letter in the mail that the Angels were letting
me go. Apparently they were dropping a full club. I
guess twenty five or thirty of us were just lopped
off immediately. I think Mike Port was the purveyor of
the bad news, And of course I hated Michael at
that time. I wish I had an opportunity to be
in the same room with him. I mean, I had
(33:01):
that kind of fire. I don't think I would have
done anything, but you think you would, you get that
letter and then your dreams are absolutely crushed. That was
the winter of seventy. Of course, I was going to
be a player in the major leagues with the California Angels,
and Kenny probably thought the same thing. It's a tremendous
blow to your confidence and your ego. And that's the
(33:22):
beauty of my past. My professional baseball life was anything
but glamorous. I can empathize with anybody. When your ultimate
dream is crushed, that's tough. And when you're the purveyor
of or the crusher of that, wow, that is really hard.
And as I'm talking about it right now, I've got
to catch my breath a couple of times only because
I felt it and I still still feel it. There
(33:44):
you go, Kenny, Um, you probably didn't recognize how much
that affected Joe Madden, but here we are thirty four
years later, and Joe you probably can still feel it. Thanks, Thanks,
really appreciate it. Thanks happen. What do you gotta do?
You got you know, you gotta live, I hope. So
I'm glad to hear I'm really glad to hear that, Kenny.
(34:06):
I mean, I mean, like I said, it ate me
up for a while. Like I said, now is it
starting to find my way back a little bit? There's
there was there so many similarities, Kenn. I mean, you're
just expressing everything during this podcast, your own personal feelings
and thoughts on the moment and how it's impacted your
life afterwards, and even to the point now where it's
(34:27):
still there. You're kind of forgiven it, but it's still there.
I get it. I get it completely, and you've back
then that was I was very early on as my
as a coach and a mind league manager, scout whatever,
and uh, you guys were a lot closer to me
an age obviously than then. I even remembered her thought.
But there was such an impact, and yours was the first,
(34:50):
really in an a visceral way that I felt it
when we sat there and talked that day, And like
I said, it wouldn't be I knew you were a
good baseball player, and I knew it was too soon.
But I guess I said retrospectively, I should have fought harder.
I I really should have fought harder too. Had the
Aggles retain you at that point, because he's you you,
(35:10):
you would have played a long time brother. You would
have played, you would have played deeply. I don't know
if you'd have been a major league player, but we
definitely would have gotten a triple A, which would have
eventually given you that opportunity to get there. So, um, yeah,
it's it does it's things. It's still stings. Um, you
know I was wrong. We were wrong, and uh you were.
You were a lot better bite baseball player than just
a couple of years in eight ball. Thank you, thank you.
(35:32):
It's it's getting there. It's getting there. You know. I
coached him like how Like I said, I learned a
lot from you, and that's what I'm giving it. I'm
giving them everything that I've got. And you know, like
I told him, let me give you everything I have.
I want that back out of you, and I'm getting that.
So it's it's all right, it's all right. Well, it
(35:52):
just sounds like you're a wonderful family man. Your grandkids.
I have grandkids myself. I understand that. Um. I just
the thing that might take away people won't understand. But
like I've talked in to the same guy talked two
years ago. The thing I love, Kenny, you're really expressing
yourself so well. Uh. You know, back then, as a
young man and as a young player, you would definitely
not open up to me like you are right now.
(36:15):
And I'm impressed. I'm impressed with how you're expressing yourself.
I'm impressed. I feel I feel good for the people
in that particular area that's going to get you to
coach their kids because I know you're doing it for
all the right reasons. I know what your heart is
and your intellect and your knowledge. So just moving forward,
I've been I'm gonna definitely try to make it out
there when I get back East. I'll give you a
blast in advance to try to get out there and
(36:36):
visit with you guys. But I know you're gonna be
very successful with this, and I hope UM Baseball resonates
with you in a way again like it did prior
to that day when we let you go, because you
have so much stoffer to these kids. Hey, Kenny, really
appreciate it. Man. This was awesome. I'm so glad we're
able to find you get you on here, and uh,
I'm glad people get a chance to get to know
(36:57):
you through this podcast. So thanks so much, Thank you, guys.
I appreciate it. Well, Joe, that was quite a bit
with Kenny Grant. I'm so glad that we got him
on here. I'm sure it was. It was pretty powerful
for you. Huh. It was again not having heard him
in a while. He's a grown man last time I
saw him, he's a young man just leaving an an
roy baseball organization. But I was so impressed with his
(37:18):
uh ability to convey his thoughts, the fact that very
honest about the fact that was kind of baseball beat
him up a little bit right there, cut him a
little bit, and he's trying to let him back in
right now. I was trying to let the game back
in and he's doing it through teaching and coaching. Um.
It was just resonated to me, and I was reminded
of what a good guy this guy is, just a
(37:39):
good person. Uh and and then and again it reminds
me of why I enjoyed being around him so much
and why I felt that I felt the day that
we let him go. I'm definitely gonna make an attempt
to get to see him when I get when we
get back east this summer again. But God, that was
it was powerful and I really hope people take the
(38:00):
time to listen to that because he he does cover
some really interesting points there too. And uh, the fact
that he's been able to move on without any kind
of really real animosity for the game in a way
for giving us for I really believe we messed it up.
We did. And now he's making this comeback in his
late fifties and getting back involved with the game and
(38:22):
passed it along. I love it, absolutely love it. Yeah,
it makes me wonder how many other Kenny Grants were
out there in the eighties, when let's face it, we
have better ways to evaluate the value and contributions of
a player. You know, at the time, you know, it
was batting average, it was runs bettered in, not a
lot of attention being paid to just the art of
(38:42):
getting on base, and that was one of Kenny's best skills.
A guy who can play multiple positions, run well and
get on base. Was it a big power guy. But
back in the day that wasn't valued as much as
it as it was now. So maybe out of his time,
and hopefully now baseball is getting back to a game
that's going to have more Kenny Grants in it, with
room for guys who get on base, ath let us,
(39:04):
some speed, positional flexibility, all valued. I love the way
he said he's beating up other teams with the hit
and run. It's stole the basis, what are you doing
over there with those guys? That's so good. We talked
briefly the other day when I when I reconnected with
them and we started ramblings and then no, no hold back.
I don't I want you to say all this stuff
on the on the podcast, and he did. It's, Um,
(39:26):
you know, you don't even realize the impact you're making
on people at certain times. Um, you know, I'm the
coach and the manager, all that kind of good stuff.
But you do, you leave, You leave a mark, and
hopefully it's a positive one. Speaking of leaving marks, you
got one to leave on this episode of the Book
of Joe. Yeah, I think it. I think it kind
of applies. And it's one of my favorite quote quotable
(39:47):
people Winston Churchill. The pessimists sees difficulty and every opportunity,
and the optimists sees the opportunity and every difficulty. Pretty
much where Kenny's at right now and how he's conducted
his life from that moment on and again you can't
under under estimate that this is that you've heard the
passion in his voice and the dreams. And I can't
(40:09):
believe he didn't play after that. I mean, I really
can't believe that nobody gave him another opportunity, or maybe
he was just so turned off that he chose to
do something else. He said, he tried softball whatever. Uh,
it's you just gotta be careful, man. You gotta be careful.
You gotta be with your evaluations. Never make them cavalier
because you're impacting lives. Obviously, now his has turned out well.
(40:30):
He sounds very happy. But he talked about Mark mckamah,
that's what we called fluff and some other guys that
achieved the big leagues while he was there. Pete Coachman
could hit it was there was a nice group back then.
It was a really good group. So I love the
fact that he's he doesn't harbor uh resentment so badly
that he can't forgive and let the game back in
(40:52):
and now he's ready to pass it along to others.
I think it's outstanding. Absolutely. I could see him smiling
as he spoke, and hopefully he keeps that here going
especially with the young kids. That's who he is. Hey,
you've got an upcoming exciting event you should know about.
It's the Savannah Book Festival. Joe and I will be
at the Savannah Book Festival to make our presentation on
(41:13):
the Book of Joe. You're more than welcome to join.
It's a huge weekend in Savannah. Many different authors will
be there talking about their books, doing readings, taking questions.
It's a great place to listen to not just us,
but many other authors. So check it out Saturday February
in Savannah, Georgia. Looking forward to that, Joe, same here, Tommy.
(41:34):
It's going to be quite an experience for me. This
is something you're kind of used to. This is uh
fish shout of water from you. But I'm looking forward
to it, and it's a great place to get your
book signed. We will be signing books at the event,
so put that on your calendar. A couple of good
golf courses nearby from what I understand, so it'll be
a good couple of days. It sounds great. I'll see
you next time on the Book of Joey. The Book
(41:58):
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