January 19, 2023 • 40 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon welcoming Paterson NJ Mayor Andre Sayegh to the show. The mayor is leading an effort to restore Hinchliffe Stadium, one of the last remaining Negro League Stadiums in the country. The plans for the build also include a museum around the stadium to tell the stories of the 20+ Hall of Famers who stepped on that field. Mayor Sayegh discusses the work that is going into the project and how he learned persistence through his own pursuit of becoming Mayor. Look for opening ceremonies on April 14th and the New Jersey Jackals moving in to call Hinchliffe Stadium their home. Mayor Sayegh reveals what other sports, schools, and colleges will be able to use the venue in the future! We wrap up with a 'Reading from The Book of Joe' and learn the life lesson from page 14.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hello and welcome back to another episode of
the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and
of course Joe, Matt and Joe. How are you doing today,
I'm good, Tommy. How are you doing back there in
the warm Northeast. Yeah, well it's snowless north Northeast so far,
(00:29):
which means probably snow this weekend now that I mentioned it.
But you know, one of the things we love talking
about this is on this podcast Joe is teamwork. And
you know how a group is as a whole is
much more powerful than the individual. And we've got a
good story today to dive into that I think goes
beyond the limits of a athletic team and it really
(00:50):
involves teamworking, community. And I'm talking about Patterson, New Jersey
and a project that's going on right now to renovate
and renew and reopen historic Hinchcliff Stadium. If not familiar
with Hinchcliff Stadium, it's one of only two Negro League
ballparks still standing today. The others in Birmingham, Alabama, rick
(01:12):
Woodfield Hinchcliff Stadium returning to glory in large part as
a community effort and led by our guest, the mayor,
a beautiful city of Paterson, New Jersey. Andre say welcome, Mayor,
Tommy pronounced that perfectly. Thank you. It's like you practiced
all morning in the mirror, did well. I'm a big
(01:34):
fan of what's going on in Patterson, um, and I
want you to explain to people why a public project
like this is so important for me. It's easy, right,
I'm Joe and I huge baseball fans, love the history
of this game, especially honoring the legends of the Negro leagues.
But as far as a community as a whole, Mayor,
(01:55):
why does this make sense? First time, now that we've
dispensed with the pleasant trees. In full disclosure, I'm a
long loyal, suffering, long time suffering New York Mets fan,
unabashed at that as well are and wearing this tie
and honor of you. You can't see my socks, but
their Met socks too. Thank you, guys, than thanks for
(02:16):
acknowledging that. I really appreciate it. I feel like I'm
in the city council chambers right now. But never you
mentioned rickwood Field In two thousand nine, my wife and
I visited Birmingham, Alabama. We went to rick Woodfield. We
took copious notes, and we said that if we ever
got to get into the mayor's office, we would prioritize
restoring the other baseball stadium that still stands that hosted
(02:37):
Negro League games. So we can fast forward fourteen years
later and we're looking to hit a home run for Hinchlift.
And we we learned many lessons in Birmingham, Alabama with
rick Woodfield, where Willie Mays played, so he didn't live
too far from rick Woodfield and he started there at
that historic stadium too. But also want to point out,
(02:57):
I mean, I'm sure both you are aware of the
movie The Field of Dreams and starring James Earl Jones
and Kevin and Constaner. And then it was that famous
phrase if you build it, they will come. Well, in Patterson,
we're building it and they are coming. Because with all
due respect to Iowa, that was a movie set. This
is the real field of dreams in Patterson. This is
(03:18):
the real field of dreams. Because baseball players African Americans
who were excluded from playing in Major League Baseball when
they couldn't play in Fenway, Yankee Stadium Wrigley, they played
in Patterson. They had a home at hinch Lift. It
was opened up during a Great Depression by Mayor John
Hinchliff in ninety two, and then the next year it
quickly became the home field for two Negro League teams,
(03:39):
the New York Like Yankees and the New York Cubans,
and it also hosted the equivalent of the New York
League World Series at Hinchlift Stadium. Yeah. I just wanted
to try him in there. First of all, Mary, great
to meet you. Pleasures I always managed the men's brother.
I like, that's awesome, man. Uh. You know what, Tommy
brought this to my attention, Hinchlift Stadium, and I did
(04:02):
my own research. I just you know, there's so much
going on there. I mean, it's it's it's quite an
undertaking to get it back to its original glory and
then and then even beyond that from some of the
artists rendering that I've seen, and I'm wondering, I got
to meet this mayor because to me, it's gonna there's
a lot going on here. There's a lot of stuff
going on, a lot of moving parts, uh, to get
all of this done and the exact eventual vision of
(04:25):
all this, and I'm meeting you, I can see the
energy and the enthusiasm is there. I mean, that's really
what it comes down to. If you have that, you're
gonna find the backing. I could tell that already just
by your personality and how sincere and passionate you are
about this. But curiously, I mean vision wise, I mean,
you know, on on the surface, I understand, but um,
there's a lot going on. Like I'm saying, so, how
how are you gonna go about this step by step?
(04:46):
How's this can eventually become this, uh, this jewel? Once again,
thanks Joe, And I would chalk up the energy and
enthusiasm to the two shots of espresso that I had
an anticipation of this podcast. I can't paid violation right now,
fire it up and ready. So so let's get back
to h wasn't an easy It isn't an easy undertaking,
(05:07):
very heavy lived, so many partners that are part of
the process, so many partners that are part of the progress.
And we're talking about a hundred million dollars in state
tax credits to make this happen. And I had a choice.
There there was an opposing group that wanted to build
a soccer arena downtown. But I felt like, wait a minute.
We have this stadium that's been sitting foulow there for
like twenty plus years now twenty six years, and there's
(05:31):
a school behind it, and for like twenty plus years,
students were veering outside of the window and seeing what
declared decay, decline, rubble. That's the wrong site for them
to see. They deserve better, This country deserves better because
that stadium speaks to the struggle for civil rights and
social justice, also speaks to the scourge of segregation. We
(05:51):
have to be realistic and what happened in this country,
and we gotta tell the whole story. And that's what
we're trying to do in Patterson. As we try to
write a new narrative for a city that struggled in
the past, we also want to tell the story of
what happened there and what had been in our country.
And that's why there's so much significance, historical significance as
a national treasure. But it's not just the stadium. We're
building a museum, a museum that will also tell the
(06:14):
story of the significance of Hinchliff stadium and integrating baseball
and also the Negro Leagues. So I just vote to
Bob Kendrick yesterday. We've been in constant communication. He's gonna
be at the Ribbon Cunning in April, and I'm gonna
extend an invitation to the two of you as well,
and we're going to have a museum here that will
be the Northeast version of the Negro League Museum. So
(06:34):
if you cannot make it in Kansas City, and I
don't know how many people are going to be going
to Missouri anytime soon, you can come to Patterson. So
anyone Try state area, anyone in the country, anyone in
the world that wants to see the role that Hinchlift
played in integrating baseball and learning more about Josh Gipson, Cool,
Papa Bell Satchel Page, and Patterson's own Larry Dobe, who
integrated the American League with the then Cleveland Indians on
(06:57):
July seven, which was eleven weeks after Jackie Robinson did
it with the Dodgers in the National League on April fifteen,
nineteen forties. They can come and see for themselves. Yeah,
I want to give people. You mentioned this more than
twenty Hall of Famers have played at Hinchlift Stadium. It's
amazing the list, the legendary names, the Josh Kibson's, Larry Adobes, Cool,
(07:19):
Papa Bell. Let's go back. You mentioned it opened in
nineteen thirty two. The first sporting event was a game
between the House of David and the Paterson Pros. They
played a double header. And the next year is when
Pittsburgh Pirates came to visit. People have to realize back
in the day, back then, teams would barnstorm and they
would come through different places. The nineteen thirty four Cardinals
(07:40):
won the World Series and Dizzy Dean and the Boys
came to Hinchlift Stadium to play a barnstorm in game
like ten days after the World Series ended. The first
Black Negro League World Series, the Black Yankees and the
Pittsburgh Crawfords have played at Hingchlift Stadium. So the history
here is so rich. And then we haven't even got
into the fact that they were early NFL games, played
(08:00):
their auto racing, boxing events, concerts. Joe, we're talking about
Tower of Power and Slide in the Family Stone by
the way, Yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden
Mayor but you said a place filling a disrepair. I mean,
let's face it, let's be honest. It was crumbling, it
was falling apart. There were weeds, I mean for twenty
(08:22):
five years. So this is really an amazing rebirth. Um.
But getting back to my original question, you must have
sold the community on the fact that this is more
than just historic baseball stadium. This is you know, for
lack of a better term, kind of a town square
for the whole community and especially the schools. You're absolutely right,
(08:43):
and Tom, you were talking about weeds. There were trees
growing in the stands, so that speaks to the deplorable
condition that this historic treasure was in. So it wasn't
necessarily a tough cell. I mean, I did have to
have town hall meetings to discuss exactly what we're gonna do,
what we were gonna do, and how we were going
to do it. And obviously football was played there and
(09:03):
there's a lot of sentimental value to this field because
we had a traditional Thanksgiving Turkey Bowl game between our
two comprehensive high schools, Kennedy High School, which was going
to be known as West Side High School, but when
it opened in the mid sixties. It had been it
had happened after President Kennedy was assassinated, So in his
honor and his memory, I should say we we named
(09:26):
it after him. And then east Side High School played
Kennedy High School and east Side made famous by the
movie That's starring Morgan Freeman his breakout role lean On
Me as the popular and controversial principle Joe Clark. So
we were tugging at people's heartstrings, were making that emotional appeal, saying, look,
we played traditional Thanksgiving football games there. When people graduated
(09:49):
in Patterson, students graduate, they got their diplomas at hinch
Lift Stadium, and Abbott and Costello, Luke Costello's from Patterson.
They're both in the Hall of Fame. By the way,
they never played in the major leagues, but they're in Cooperstown.
They performed at hinch Lift Stadium. Who's on first So
and like I stay before, Duke Ellington performed their nineteen
one when we have the Great Falls Festival, And I
(10:11):
might add it's a part of the National Park. There's
a Great Falls National Park and the Great Falls the
second largest waterfall east of the Mississippi. So that's another
appealing aspect of that area. So it's within the same footprint.
You have hinch Lift Stadium and you have the Great Falls,
so it's gonna be quite a tourist attraction when it's
all said and done. And we're founded by Alexander Hamilton's,
(10:34):
who was made popular by the Broadway musical starring linn
Manuel Miranda, And we're building a visitors center on site
named for Alexander Hamilton's and a river walk is expected
to be completed at the Falls by the end of
the year. So there's a lot of synergy. We're aligning
our efforts here, the stars are aligning. And you also
have affordable housing attached to this project, correct, senior citizens
(10:56):
seventy five units. We have multiple affordable housing projects, but
on that site there there will be affordable housing for
senior Sazing know the things that stands out, Yeah, what
stands out to me is the leadership component. I mean
that's the one thing. Like Mary, you might be aware
of this or not, but in Hazelton, Pennsylvania, I'm not
far from there, That's where I grew up. We have
something that called the Hazelton Integration Project where we're trying
to bring together the Hispanic and anglic cultures in my
(11:18):
hometown and and in general the city itself, there's a
lot of blight, urban blight. Uh uh. The different neighborhoods
are really in horrible shape. Back their downtown is not
what it had been, and we're trying to rebuild all
this back. But it does take leadership, It takes vision,
and it takes the ability to just push things through.
Once you have vision. We all have vision in the
(11:40):
in some regards, but then you have to have this
uh stick tutive, this disability to really ramrod stuff through
and stay with it when everybody tells you know, and
I'm I bet and I'm sure that on many occasions
you've been told you're crazy, why you're doing this, It's
gonna cost too much money. Who's all going to benefit
from this? But I love the idea that you've included everybody.
It's not just about sports. It's it's a it's an
(12:02):
all encompassing community kind of a situation. And I've always
thought that's the way to do it. Uh include everybody,
Include everybody from the arts of course of the sports, education, uh,
local businesses, families, whatever. You have to include everybody to
really sell something like this, So you know when it
came to that, because I'm just looking for some lessons myself.
What was your overarching internal philosophy in regards to how
(12:23):
do I approach this and how do I sell this
to the to the people in charge of the funds? Jill.
As an urban mayor, I'm strategically impatient. One of my
calling cards is I'm persistent. I ran for mayor in
two thousand ten, right after I went to rick Woodfield.
I lost. I ran again. In two thousand fourteen, I lost.
I ran in two thousand eighteen I finally won. So
(12:45):
the third time was the charm and if I didn't
win that third time, it was three strikes and you're out.
So I know the feeling of pressure. I'm very self aware,
and I'm like the Rocky Baba over here in Patterson
and we just, you know, keep getting hit and we
keep moving forward. That's the most important aspect of it all.
But I think after all these years, it's like whatever
(13:07):
we witnessed, my wife and I down in rick wood
Field were like, look, we want people to see that
as well. So we put together a presentation and we
saw them what we showed them, what we thought the
future would look like not only for hints of stadium,
but for the city, that it would be a major victory.
It would be a victory for this country. Think about
the level of social awareness here in this sky. They
(13:27):
used the term woke right, So like post George Floyd,
the murder of George Floyd, people started becoming more conscious
of race relations in this country. And this stadium speaks
to that. It speaks to the struggle for social justice
and civil rights and the scourge of segregation. So why
not jump on board and and help us become storytellers
(13:47):
for not only the city, but this country as well.
We're creating a template for other for other communities to follow. Absolutely,
there's other places that I know have you know, stadiums
or places within our community that that they hold near
and near to the heart that's really fall into disrepair.
Want to believe that they're going to start coming to
you and asking you questions, how did you do this?
And how do we do this? Where does it begin again?
(14:11):
How did you bring this coalition together? I think that's
important because I know that's we've been doing in Hazelton.
It's getting better, It's gotten a lot better. But we
still have a lot of work to do. And what
you're doing here and I'm reading about it obviously, and
I was researching the internet just checking all the videos out.
It's really impressive and I just watched. You don't know
how much I really dig what you're doing. Thanks, Joe,
I dig it too. And I will tell you we
(14:31):
have one of the largest Dominican parades in the area
and a lot of people from Hazelton. Come. You have
a large Dominican population over there in huge absolutely an
hour way outside of Patterson and Joe, you gotta expect
and Tom too, You're gonna I'm gonna extend an invitation
to my office. I'd love to host. I'll be honored
to host you guys here when I get back East.
I'm definitely gonna do that because once it's first of all,
the weather's got a break, Yeah, it will. Well. Well, look, look,
(14:56):
we have a date of April fourteen for the grand opening,
and we're going all out for this one. And we
picked up for fourteen for two reasons. April fift this
when Jackie Robinson broke the color bearer. Fourteen is the
number that Larry Dobe war with Cleveland. So we're paying
homage to two legends in one day. That is awesome.
Let's do this. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.
(15:18):
We get back. There's more to talk about. With Mayor
dre and Paterson, New Jersey. Welcome back to the Book
of Joe Podcasts. We are with the mayor of Paterson,
(15:39):
New Jersey, Andrea say In. Andre, I want you to
give people an idea. You've touched on this a little
bit about the city of Patterson. You mentioned it's grand history,
Alexander Hamilton's looks at those falls and started what was
the first planned industrial city in this country back in
the eighteenth century. And as Joe mentioned, it's kind of
like Hazelton, Pennsylvania. It is a true melting pot when
(16:02):
you think about you are a city of a hundred
and sixty thousand people and many many immigrants, Hispanic population, Turkey,
South Asia. Uh. You are the first Arab American mayor
of the city. I know there's a large Arab population
in your city. So give me an idea for people
who are not familiar with Patterson. And I'm sure you
have the challenges many urban cities have these days, and
(16:23):
what the city is like and where it's going these days.
Thanks Tom. Yeah. And according to Star Ledger, there was
article that said Patterson is the most diverse city in
the state of New Jersey. And we can make an
argument you say we're hundred and sixty thousand. I think
there's more than that. But we fought hard in the
last sense is to try to get as a complete
and accurate count as we can. We can make an
(16:44):
argument like we're like a microcosm of this country, more
like a microcrossum New York. We're like twenty miles outside
of Manhattan. And what we're trying to do here is
rewrite the narrative, and we need co authors. Joe, you
keep emphasizing like it's a total team effort, which is true.
Every time I see our governor, I tell him, Lick,
you're a cooker. Are right in this new narrative when
(17:05):
I see both of our United States Senators are congressman,
every elected official on every level is invested in this.
I'd say transformative, catalytic project because it essentially puts Patterson
back on the map. I talked about lean on me
when I when I go outside of town, and I
do often, I try to promote Patterson. I'm the cheerleader
(17:25):
in chief. I bring my Patterson pomp pomps and it, Oh,
what's Patterson? They misspell at all time. It's a pet
peeve that spelled one Patterson. Lean on Me. A Hurricane
starring Denzel Washington was about a middleweight contender from Patterson,
New Jersey. If you watch it again, and obviously I
mentioned Alexander Hamilton's Lou Costello, very prominent paterson Ian's. There
was actually a movie starring Adam Driver where he played
(17:46):
a bus driver from Patterson who wrote poems at the
Great Falls about Patterson that was released in two thousand seventeen.
So I want people to see the other side of
Patterson because very often you can get caught up in
the negative headlines, whether it's gun violence or if it's
Patterson b a destination for the wrong reasons. And when
I say wrong reasons, I mean the opioid epidemic that
(18:08):
many cities are struggling with across this country. Well, I
want to point out you. I think Joe, you mentioned
this or mayor mentioned this. There is a national park there, right,
the Great Falls, and right, I'm not sure when your
first baseball game is. But I do know the New
Jersey Jackals, a minor league team, are moving intension of stadium,
and when they play their first game there, that will be,
(18:30):
from my understanding, the first baseball game played entirely inside
a National park. You've got a lot going on in
that small area. It's true. It is the only ballpark
within a National park. So we're looking forward to the
New Jersey Jackals. After twenty five years of playing in
little falls in my family and I went and saw them.
We enjoyed it. We're looking forward to the Jackals coming
(18:53):
to Patterson. Their general manager played for the Mets, Bobby Jones,
and he's gonna holst clinics. He's gonna holt clinics and
pass it. We want to encourage our youth to play baseball.
Baseball is not as popular as it once was. I
just finished reading Cleon Jones book, and he said, like
when he was growing up in Alabama, he said that, look,
anybody could play baseball. Right. You didn't have to be
(19:15):
six ft eight, You didn't have to be two d
and fifty pounds of solid muscle or whatever it may be.
You could be not as tall, all right. You could
be diminutively challenged or vertically challenged. You could be heavy,
horizontally challenged. You could be anything and still play baseball.
So I wanna emphasize that when when the Jackals comment,
(19:37):
when Bobby Jones has those clinics for our community regarding
the field itself there, I mean that's because you know
the configuration of the field. You still have the horseshoe configuration. Yeah,
is that? So how how you in to set up
the baseball I'm just curious because you know that the
lines can tend to be shorter, did you guys? I'm
sure you guys figured something out with that, just a
curiosity factor. Yeah, the necessary adjustments for the Jackals. We've
(19:59):
already agreed to that. And one goal that we have,
and I've spoken to Harrold Reynolds extensively because he was
a Montclair one goal that we have is we want
that MLB Field of Dreams game in Patterson. They played
in Iowa and again no knock, but it was a movie.
That's a movie set. This is a real field, a
real field of dreams. So I can anticipate potentially having
(20:19):
the Mets play the other team from New York at
Hinchliff Stadium to be pretty groovy, man. Absolutely, I forgot
the name of the other thing. How great would that be?
From my understanding is the field is oriented towards the
open end of the horseshoe, and that you could have
and will be sort of a portable, movable outfield fence,
because let's face it, you're going to have other events.
(20:40):
They're correct, you will be able to play football games. Yes, Tom,
I'm sorry turning it rup. I didn't mention like we'd
love to have boxing there again, UFC. I'm sure, w
w E why not like a Monday night row like
a paid per view and Patterson, Sure, I'll get in
there with some of my political rivals age match. That's awesome, brother,
(21:03):
We'll get there for charity. I'll wrestle thunder Lips. You
know we do uh Mayor we do this in Pennsylvania.
We we had our and even in Chicago, I was
with the Cubs. Uh, my wife Jay and I did
something with the Chicago Youth Boxing and the Crushers Club
in the South Side of Chicago. The youth boxing component
also is very prominent. Um. It's you know, it's an
inexpensive way for these kids to get off the streets
(21:25):
and and learn, learn some discipline quite frankly, and show
up on time for a particular event. Um. Then you
start getting families involved in friends they come on out
and watch their their friends box. Um. Actually just standing
in the ring when we were doing this event in Chicago,
getting up in the ring, getting over the ropes, getting
in there, and then all of a sudden, you see, Wow,
I'm in this little combined area. There's nowhere to runners,
(21:47):
nowhere to hide right here. It's really an interesting concept
to box. But I've always thought I'd like to see
a resurgence and and resurgence and youth boxing. It's something
we were very very successful with the Chicago raised a
lot of money for those programs out there, and actually
we're gonna we were gonna do it in California to
until I got let go a little quickly out there,
so I never really transpired that. But but it's um,
(22:11):
I really, I really, I really think there's a lot there.
I mean, the the old Golden Gloves back in the day,
how popular they were in New York City. Even as
a kid, I would follow that in the daily news,
in the post on a daily basis whenever the Golden
Gloves were actually being fought. I just think that we're
missing out something there with youth boxing. It doesn't have
to be professional boxing, all these different items that cater
(22:33):
to the youth program, youth sports. Um, that's that's the
part to me that the more we could get on
board with that, that's really gonna make some inroads into
the future and really start raising some good citizens. You know,
Joe's insuing you point that out. Boxing was like my
first favorite sport, and when I can't sleep at night,
I just watched heavyweight bouts from the seventies. I was
watching ron Lyle versus George Foreman, the only winning times,
(22:57):
and I watched them all. I watched Alive versus Chuck
Webner because I got to watch all the Rocky movies
and said, this is the real Rocky. Here the Bayone
Leader from New Jersey, I might add, So we want
the diamond gloves in Patterson, we want them all. If
Evander Holeyfield wants to fight Riddick Both for the fourth time,
let's do it, Patterson. Let's go. Mike Tyson, you want
(23:17):
to fight my ear please? I got too, so Mayor,
how do you, how do you anticipate usage of the
stadium when it does open in terms of how many
days the schools get to use at, how many private events,
how many baseball games, that kind of usage. So demand
is gonna be very high. But we have an agreement
with the school district that the children will have the
students will have it for a hundred and eighty days
and that will include the Turkey Bowl game on Thanksgiving
(23:40):
between east Side and Kennedy. That will include graduations. And
we're also getting school colleges that say we want our
graduation Hinchlip as well. And I got a point out.
We have a partner in Montclair State University and their
visionary and enlightened leader, their president, Dr. Jonathan Copel, who
actually reached out to an alumnus, a benefactor or a
(24:01):
potential benefactor who was from Patterson and graduated from that college,
Montclair State University, and so magnanimous that he donated five
million dollars to the museum that we're going to have
here in Patterson, the one I alluded to earlier. Yeah,
that is awesome. That's nothing like telling the history and
people this generation, all of us should always be reminded
(24:22):
of those who came before us. By the way, when
the stadium does open, I will be looking for the
plaque that acknowledges that I played at Hingeblood Stadium, and
I did for Seton Hall Prep football game nineteen seventy
six against Paterson East Side in that ballpark. So I
will look for that bronze plaque. Okay, did you win?
(24:45):
Of course we won undefeated and never one team in
the state state champions Seton Hall Prep. And I have
to do that because I went to Seton Hall University,
where in full disclosure, I was a history major. Tommy,
out of all the things you've ever accomplished, that to
me is the most impressive that I've heard to this point.
Well done, well done, great well. I peaked at seventeen. Hey,
(25:11):
we're gonna take another quick break. We'll come back with more.
Let's stick around. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast,
said Mayor Dre. We're gonna include you in a little
segment we like to do with our guests. It is
(25:32):
called a reading from the Book of Joe. Of course,
it's based on our book, the Book of Joe, And
what we have is we have our guests pick a
number between one and three d and sixty eight the
number of pages in the book, because we believe no
matter where you crack open the book, you will find
an interesting anecdote, piece of advice, story, whatever it may be.
(25:55):
So the honor now is yours, Mr Mayor, to pick
a number, and we will go to that page in
the book. I'm going to choose fourteen for obvious reason.
Is Larry Dobe Paterson, New Jersey integrated the American League
with the then Cleveland Indians. Very nice? What are you
gonna learn about Joe's background? A little bit here? Oh Joe,
(26:16):
this is about This is about the one of the
more influential people in your life. And you don't even
know the woman's name to this day, I don't believe, right,
I don't he sitting on a plane when he was
feeling down in the dubs? What happened? You gotta passed
over for a job, correct? I did? Um. I had
been running the minor league system for the Angels from
pretty much until this to that particular moment, was in
(26:39):
charge of everything. I was setting up the programs and
eventually there was an opening on the major league staff,
and uh I was I really thought I should have
gotten and I did not, And um, I really stepped
out of character at that point. I never really had
thought of quitting anything up to that point. I was
that angry. I thought it was unfair, unjust all the
(27:00):
different things we all think when you get passed over
in a situation. So, uh not not a good guy
at that point, was really not myself and uh having
a hard time just reporting the ballparks, which is absolutely
insane for me to say that. Yeah. So Joe is
on a airplane in the middle seat and he puts
his headphones on, trying to cut himself off from the
(27:20):
rest of the world. He's got a chatty woman next
to him. We've all been there, right when you want
to be quiet and something. He wants to talk but anyway,
she all of a sudden has a piece of advice
that strikes him like a bolt of lightning. He says,
can you repeat that? Please? Sure? She said, Remember one thing,
whatever you put out there comes back to you. If
you put out positive vibes, you're going to get positive
(27:42):
vibes in return. If you put out negative vibes, you're
going to get negative vibes in return. Madden smiled for
one of the few times and months the words cut
right to his soul. Damn, you talk about a moment
in your life when the power of the words overwhelms you.
He says, here is this person. I never saw it before,
I never saw again after that. I could not have
(28:04):
been in a worse mood. And then she said that,
and I could not have been in a better mood.
I got off that airplane, got my rental car, checked
into the hotel, and went to the ballpark at Midland.
I walked into that ballpark with all the energy I
ever had in my life. I've found myself again with
me and had always been about a positive message, but
(28:25):
I had lost that. I went to the ballpark in
Midland that day knowing that if I got back to
what I had always been, which was to be a
positive influence, that by throwing out positive vibes to everyone
around me, that's what I'm going to get in return.
Madden has been shaped by the lessons and wisdom of
great leaders throughout his life, especially in his formative years,
(28:46):
and began with his parents and we go on from there.
But it's an appropriate message, I think Joe, especially for
this episode where positivity brings results. It almost sounds like
a scene out of City Slickers, which I just watched recently,
Jack Palance from Hazelton, when when Billy Crystal heads out
west of the Dude Ranch and all of a sudden,
(29:06):
you have this epiphany and everything just seems to change.
It's true, man, because you're recapping, recounting that, reading all that.
I'm just sitting here thinking exactly like in that particular moment,
and and how quickly I did change my attitude, and
also how I used that um in future moments where
I was really getting off track a little bit again.
(29:27):
And I would go back to that one term. I
use it as advice either to my kids or players,
or just people that come in contact with that. I
think maybe I've got a little bit sideways with their
attitude regarding just whatever. So it's just a real simple thought.
But she impacted me right between the eyeballs and it
and it holds true to today. And it's absolutely easy
and believable, and it's it's it's uh, it's it's not fluffy.
(29:51):
It's it's really accurate and it and it has a
lot of substance even though it is doing simple better
that's what she came down to for me. There. I'm
not sure if you had a similar epiphany, but how
about the influences on your life that's shaped your perspective. Yeah,
so I just want to get back to the City
Slickers because it should be noted that Billy Crystal war
Mets had in that movie. Sorry, Yeah, that really resonated
(30:18):
with me. And the reason why I struck a chord
is because I subscribe to if you have a positive outlook,
and that could lead to a positive outcome. So your
outlook can determine your outcome. And thanks to I have
to give credit my mother, a single mother raising me
in the city of Patterson. It wasn't always positive for her,
but her outlook was, look, I'm gonna make sure I
(30:39):
raised my son's right and want them to succeed and
I want them to be productive members of society. And
so you talked about sticktuitiveness. My mother demonstrated that because
she was an immigrant from Syria and drove a bus
and made sure that we were driven, meaning motivated, And
that's essentially what has motivated me to want to be
the mayor of Patterson and restore Hinchlift Stadium. So taking
(31:01):
a positive outlook and turning it into a positive outcome,
that's beautiful, man. And you just want to you know,
listening to this whole thing, and you've you've you mentioned
it earlier in the in the podcast regarding diversity, but energy,
um is diversity or diversity is energy. The more diverser
situation may be, the more different perspectives or points or
(31:24):
opinions that you may be able to generate, it's definitely
going to add to the genera, to the energy of
the situation. At the moment, listening to you right now,
I can understand why you are the position you're in.
You could lead so many different situations, whether it's a town,
a city like Patterson, organizations, whether it's a sports organization,
or just in in the corporate the corporate world. Your
(31:46):
energy is very infectious and it's sincere. That's that's another
thing that shows through um, passion, um and sincerity are
either real or they're not. And I absolutely believe I'm
talking to a real person right now, and I really
appreciate that about you. I didn't like I said we did.
We never met before today, but I can unders then
while you're meeting with so much success, and I just
(32:07):
want to wish you so much more success in the future.
And I'm looking forward to being in your company where
we could actually talk a little bit one on one
and hopefully I'll be able to get to Patterson when
Hinchliff is um rededicated at that point. But it's really
been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you, Joe.
It's an honor to make the both of you. You
keep point at my energy level. I mean, in addition
to being highly caffeinated. My daughter so Ja, that's right,
(32:30):
she's named for Sha Stadium. She didn't finish her frosted flakes,
so I don't wait. Let anything go awake. This is
a little bit of sugar in there. Last question for me, Mayor.
You clearly are a huge baseball fan. You mentioned you've
been to all thirty ballparks. Where did your love for
baseball come from? Oh? No, you got me on that one,
(32:51):
because my first favorite baseball player was Reggie Jackson, and
I actually did like Rick Serone, So you know where
I'm this, Like late seventies, I was wearing Yankee paraphernalia.
And then you want to talk about an epiphany. I
don't know. I was like, not that I thought I'd
be the mayor of Patterson, but I think it's a
prerequisite for anyone who wants to be mayor of any
town to know what hardship is like. And being Yankee
(33:14):
fan is not grueling, but being a Mets fan is.
So something happened in three. I was watching Channel nine
and I saw Ron Garden Higher That's who I remember,
and I'm like, Okay, you know he's not the best
baseball player, but at that moment he performed well, and
I think I'm gonna be a Mets fan now. And
I did. And like I stated before, I think that,
(33:34):
uh was a test of my metal metal to ultimately
assent to a position where I can serve people in
this capacity. So yeah, nineteen eight three is when I
had that lightbulb moment became a Mets fan. But and
my and my mother, like I said, an immigrant didn't
know baseball at all, so she didn't know anything about it.
I was just drawn to it and still am love it.
(33:55):
That's pretty obvious. Oh wait, hey, hopefay you have any uh,
I know you still have Jews, Joe if it show,
I'm in New York, So yeah, if you can give
Otani a call. That that would be I know that
wouldn't be tampering, not anymore. I'm not even yeah, I'm
not subject to that. Listen, he's wonderful, shows outstanding. Um.
(34:16):
I'm actually doing a little piece helping out with the
piece about him for some Japanese television right now. I'd
have a wonderful relationship with him. Still, he is all that,
he is that kind of a talent. Um. I keep
looking at reading about the five million dollar player, which
is probably true because he's two players. He's not one player.
So whatever, two players, uh, two of the best players
(34:38):
as a pitcher and a position player are worth That's
who he is. He is that good and on top
of that, he's a wonderful person. So we'll see how
this all plays out. But I'm always pulling for him. Thanks,
and again, I want to express that. I mean, I'm
profoundly proud to be here. I'm immensely appreciative of this opportunity.
I admire both of you and appreciate both of you.
Thank you, Thank you, well, thank you. This has been
(34:59):
a real pleasure. I think it's important for people, not
just in Patterson, that around the country to understand and
what is happening in that city and looking forward to
what will be come. I think may the first professional
baseball game played there since nineteen So congratulations to you
in your city. All the best of luck in same
(35:20):
to you happy and healthy new year. Right back at
your mayor and to your family, please to thank you,
Thank you well, Joe. I'm catching my breath here after
that wild fun ride, like I mean usement park ride,
going back in history and back to today and everything
being done here in Patterson with Mayor Dre. Let's call
a cup of energy. Man. But it's already ten o'clock
or later there. I'm just getting at eight o'clock in
(35:42):
the morning. You're in Arizona. But really an interesting man.
I could see why he's leading that city. It could see,
uh why there he's taken on such a project as
to revitalize Hinchlift and what that means in the community.
I can't wait to meet him. I really can't wait
to meet this guy. This is the kind of guy
you want to hang out with. Um things happen when
you're around people like Mayor Dre. So that was really cool, man.
(36:05):
Thank you for setting the whole thing up. I thought
was outstanding. Now it's so cool to hear of a
project like this that involves baseball and really an inner
city here and in an opportunity. And we talk a
lot about professional baseball coming back to that stadium for
the first time since nineteen fifty, but mixed use facility
that the entire community is going to be able to
(36:27):
use in baseball is really a big part of that. Absolutely.
Um And I like you said during the podcast, I
like I love the idea that he's including other components
of the city in the community, and it's not just
based on sports. He's gonna attract everybody to that uh,
to that place, including graduations, concerts. Uh. They've had, as
you suggested earlier. I doubt it's gonna happen again. But
race cards I read about that. That's incredible. They actually
(36:49):
had car racing in that oval. They're back in the day. Uh.
It's just Uh, it's one of those places man, that
when it gets up and running again, the whole the
whole area is gonna be attracted to it. They're gonna
be drawn to it. Uh. And then you're gonna start
the conversation about what had happened there. The past, which
I think is is absolutely pertinent and wonderful. So again,
UH props to uh to our mayor man. And like
(37:11):
I said, hopefully I'll get a chance to get back
there in April U to go visit in person, because
really I got to see this. I got to see
the whole thing in action. Yeah, and it looks really
cool too, doesn't it. The idea of it began back
in the nineteen twenties when there was the stadium boom
going on. And think of it as a kind of
a mini polo grounds, right with that big horseshoe. Of
course it's not that big, but our deco, exterior cast concrete,
(37:34):
it looks really cool. Can't wait to see it. All
about our deco. But I was really when it read
it was next to a national park. I'm thinking of
like Patterson as being this urban area, like there's no
wooded area around it, but of course Jersey is full
of it. And then I saw some images on on
the internet and really cool the way it looks like
it's on the outer skirts of town there and how
it does butt up against the wooded area. It's really
(37:56):
a neat area. Beautiful. Yeah, and maybe maybe some day
if we want to really dream big a major League
baseball game, they're a field of Aames game at Hingecliffe Stadium.
That would be awesome. It would it would absolutely. Joe
has been a pleasure. You've got something to take us out. Yeah,
one of a former Major League baseball player African American. Um,
(38:17):
I thought would be appropriate with the Negro league emphasis.
But this comes from Rickey Henderson. Actually had a chance.
It's in the book actually through Ricky Henderson out once
in the call Lea when he was attempting to break
the Calli record for stolen basis but then eventually uh
when the then eventually got me. The next time he
stole third base and got the record. But I read
this and this is so Ricky. Um. I thought it
(38:38):
was outstanding. He said, two thirds of the fans will
be there to see Ricky, two thirds to see Billy Martin,
and two thirds to see the Yankees. I don't know
exactly when he said that, but god, it's so true Ricky.
I had. I worked with him with the Angels briefly
(38:58):
when he was at the latter end of his career. Absolutely,
even when he was like almost forty years old, he
could deal the base. Do you know he was going?
You know he's running on this pitch, and know he's going,
he's gonna. They're paying all the attention to him. Pictures
quick to the plate and he still beats the throw
to second base. Unbelievable. One of my favorites. Quick story.
He was probably forty five, maybe playing independent minor league
(39:21):
baseball in Newark, New Jersey. And I had known Ricky
since the eighties, and I went to go see him
and do a story. And what I found out was
he was staying in Manhattan and he was paying more
to rent an apartment in Manhattan than he was getting
paid to play minor league baseball. He was literally to
(39:41):
play baseball, independent ball in the minor leagues in his forties.
That he's such a sweetheart, great guy, Never question his
love for the game. See you next time, Joe, Thank you, Buddy.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I
(40:02):
Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hello and welcome back to another episode of
the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and
of course Joe, Matt and Joe. How are you doing today,
I'm good, Tommy. How are you doing back there in
the warm Northeast. Yeah, well it's snowless north Northeast so far,
(00:29):
which means probably snow this weekend now that I mentioned it.
But you know, one of the things we love talking
about this is on this podcast Joe is teamwork. And
you know how a group is as a whole is
much more powerful than the individual. And we've got a
good story today to dive into that I think goes
beyond the limits of a athletic team and it really
(00:50):
involves teamworking, community. And I'm talking about Patterson, New Jersey
and a project that's going on right now to renovate
and renew and reopen historic Hinchcliff Stadium. If not familiar
with Hinchcliff Stadium, it's one of only two Negro League
ballparks still standing today. The others in Birmingham, Alabama, rick
(01:12):
Woodfield Hinchcliff Stadium returning to glory in large part as
a community effort and led by our guest, the mayor,
a beautiful city of Paterson, New Jersey. Andre say welcome, Mayor,
Tommy pronounced that perfectly. Thank you. It's like you practiced
all morning in the mirror, did well. I'm a big
(01:34):
fan of what's going on in Patterson, um, and I
want you to explain to people why a public project
like this is so important for me. It's easy, right,
I'm Joe and I huge baseball fans, love the history
of this game, especially honoring the legends of the Negro leagues.
But as far as a community as a whole, Mayor,
(01:55):
why does this make sense? First time, now that we've
dispensed with the pleasant trees. In full disclosure, I'm a
long loyal, suffering, long time suffering New York Mets fan,
unabashed at that as well are and wearing this tie
and honor of you. You can't see my socks, but
their Met socks too. Thank you, guys, than thanks for
(02:16):
acknowledging that. I really appreciate it. I feel like I'm
in the city council chambers right now. But never you
mentioned rickwood Field In two thousand nine, my wife and
I visited Birmingham, Alabama. We went to rick Woodfield. We
took copious notes, and we said that if we ever
got to get into the mayor's office, we would prioritize
restoring the other baseball stadium that still stands that hosted
(02:37):
Negro League games. So we can fast forward fourteen years
later and we're looking to hit a home run for Hinchlift.
And we we learned many lessons in Birmingham, Alabama with
rick Woodfield, where Willie Mays played, so he didn't live
too far from rick Woodfield and he started there at
that historic stadium too. But also want to point out,
(02:57):
I mean, I'm sure both you are aware of the
movie The Field of Dreams and starring James Earl Jones
and Kevin and Constaner. And then it was that famous
phrase if you build it, they will come. Well, in Patterson,
we're building it and they are coming. Because with all
due respect to Iowa, that was a movie set. This
is the real field of dreams in Patterson. This is
(03:18):
the real field of dreams. Because baseball players African Americans
who were excluded from playing in Major League Baseball when
they couldn't play in Fenway, Yankee Stadium Wrigley, they played
in Patterson. They had a home at hinch Lift. It
was opened up during a Great Depression by Mayor John
Hinchliff in ninety two, and then the next year it
quickly became the home field for two Negro League teams,
(03:39):
the New York Like Yankees and the New York Cubans,
and it also hosted the equivalent of the New York
League World Series at Hinchlift Stadium. Yeah. I just wanted
to try him in there. First of all, Mary, great
to meet you. Pleasures I always managed the men's brother.
I like, that's awesome, man. Uh. You know what, Tommy
brought this to my attention, Hinchlift Stadium, and I did
(04:02):
my own research. I just you know, there's so much
going on there. I mean, it's it's it's quite an
undertaking to get it back to its original glory and
then and then even beyond that from some of the
artists rendering that I've seen, and I'm wondering, I got
to meet this mayor because to me, it's gonna there's
a lot going on here. There's a lot of stuff
going on, a lot of moving parts, uh, to get
all of this done and the exact eventual vision of
(04:25):
all this, and I'm meeting you, I can see the
energy and the enthusiasm is there. I mean, that's really
what it comes down to. If you have that, you're
gonna find the backing. I could tell that already just
by your personality and how sincere and passionate you are
about this. But curiously, I mean vision wise, I mean,
you know, on on the surface, I understand, but um,
there's a lot going on. Like I'm saying, so, how
how are you gonna go about this step by step?
(04:46):
How's this can eventually become this, uh, this jewel? Once again,
thanks Joe, And I would chalk up the energy and
enthusiasm to the two shots of espresso that I had
an anticipation of this podcast. I can't paid violation right now,
fire it up and ready. So so let's get back
to h wasn't an easy It isn't an easy undertaking,
(05:07):
very heavy lived, so many partners that are part of
the process, so many partners that are part of the progress.
And we're talking about a hundred million dollars in state
tax credits to make this happen. And I had a choice.
There there was an opposing group that wanted to build
a soccer arena downtown. But I felt like, wait a minute.
We have this stadium that's been sitting foulow there for
like twenty plus years now twenty six years, and there's
(05:31):
a school behind it, and for like twenty plus years,
students were veering outside of the window and seeing what
declared decay, decline, rubble. That's the wrong site for them
to see. They deserve better, This country deserves better because
that stadium speaks to the struggle for civil rights and
social justice, also speaks to the scourge of segregation. We
(05:51):
have to be realistic and what happened in this country,
and we gotta tell the whole story. And that's what
we're trying to do in Patterson. As we try to
write a new narrative for a city that struggled in
the past, we also want to tell the story of
what happened there and what had been in our country.
And that's why there's so much significance, historical significance as
a national treasure. But it's not just the stadium. We're
building a museum, a museum that will also tell the
(06:14):
story of the significance of Hinchliff stadium and integrating baseball
and also the Negro Leagues. So I just vote to
Bob Kendrick yesterday. We've been in constant communication. He's gonna
be at the Ribbon Cunning in April, and I'm gonna
extend an invitation to the two of you as well,
and we're going to have a museum here that will
be the Northeast version of the Negro League Museum. So
(06:34):
if you cannot make it in Kansas City, and I
don't know how many people are going to be going
to Missouri anytime soon, you can come to Patterson. So
anyone Try state area, anyone in the country, anyone in
the world that wants to see the role that Hinchlift
played in integrating baseball and learning more about Josh Gipson, Cool,
Papa Bell Satchel Page, and Patterson's own Larry Dobe, who
integrated the American League with the then Cleveland Indians on
(06:57):
July seven, which was eleven weeks after Jackie Robinson did
it with the Dodgers in the National League on April fifteen,
nineteen forties. They can come and see for themselves. Yeah,
I want to give people. You mentioned this more than
twenty Hall of Famers have played at Hinchlift Stadium. It's
amazing the list, the legendary names, the Josh Kibson's, Larry Adobes, Cool,
(07:19):
Papa Bell. Let's go back. You mentioned it opened in
nineteen thirty two. The first sporting event was a game
between the House of David and the Paterson Pros. They
played a double header. And the next year is when
Pittsburgh Pirates came to visit. People have to realize back
in the day, back then, teams would barnstorm and they
would come through different places. The nineteen thirty four Cardinals
(07:40):
won the World Series and Dizzy Dean and the Boys
came to Hinchlift Stadium to play a barnstorm in game
like ten days after the World Series ended. The first
Black Negro League World Series, the Black Yankees and the
Pittsburgh Crawfords have played at Hingchlift Stadium. So the history
here is so rich. And then we haven't even got
into the fact that they were early NFL games, played
(08:00):
their auto racing, boxing events, concerts. Joe, we're talking about
Tower of Power and Slide in the Family Stone by
the way, Yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden
Mayor but you said a place filling a disrepair. I mean,
let's face it, let's be honest. It was crumbling, it
was falling apart. There were weeds, I mean for twenty
(08:22):
five years. So this is really an amazing rebirth. Um.
But getting back to my original question, you must have
sold the community on the fact that this is more
than just historic baseball stadium. This is you know, for
lack of a better term, kind of a town square
for the whole community and especially the schools. You're absolutely right,
(08:43):
and Tom, you were talking about weeds. There were trees
growing in the stands, so that speaks to the deplorable
condition that this historic treasure was in. So it wasn't
necessarily a tough cell. I mean, I did have to
have town hall meetings to discuss exactly what we're gonna do,
what we were gonna do, and how we were going
to do it. And obviously football was played there and
(09:03):
there's a lot of sentimental value to this field because
we had a traditional Thanksgiving Turkey Bowl game between our
two comprehensive high schools, Kennedy High School, which was going
to be known as West Side High School, but when
it opened in the mid sixties. It had been it
had happened after President Kennedy was assassinated, So in his
honor and his memory, I should say we we named
(09:26):
it after him. And then east Side High School played
Kennedy High School and east Side made famous by the
movie That's starring Morgan Freeman his breakout role lean On
Me as the popular and controversial principle Joe Clark. So
we were tugging at people's heartstrings, were making that emotional appeal, saying, look,
we played traditional Thanksgiving football games there. When people graduated
(09:49):
in Patterson, students graduate, they got their diplomas at hinch
Lift Stadium, and Abbott and Costello, Luke Costello's from Patterson.
They're both in the Hall of Fame. By the way,
they never played in the major leagues, but they're in Cooperstown.
They performed at hinch Lift Stadium. Who's on first So
and like I stay before, Duke Ellington performed their nineteen
one when we have the Great Falls Festival, And I
(10:11):
might add it's a part of the National Park. There's
a Great Falls National Park and the Great Falls the
second largest waterfall east of the Mississippi. So that's another
appealing aspect of that area. So it's within the same footprint.
You have hinch Lift Stadium and you have the Great Falls,
so it's gonna be quite a tourist attraction when it's
all said and done. And we're founded by Alexander Hamilton's,
(10:34):
who was made popular by the Broadway musical starring linn
Manuel Miranda, And we're building a visitors center on site
named for Alexander Hamilton's and a river walk is expected
to be completed at the Falls by the end of
the year. So there's a lot of synergy. We're aligning
our efforts here, the stars are aligning. And you also
have affordable housing attached to this project, correct, senior citizens
(10:56):
seventy five units. We have multiple affordable housing projects, but
on that site there there will be affordable housing for
senior Sazing know the things that stands out, Yeah, what
stands out to me is the leadership component. I mean
that's the one thing. Like Mary, you might be aware
of this or not, but in Hazelton, Pennsylvania, I'm not
far from there, That's where I grew up. We have
something that called the Hazelton Integration Project where we're trying
to bring together the Hispanic and anglic cultures in my
(11:18):
hometown and and in general the city itself, there's a
lot of blight, urban blight. Uh uh. The different neighborhoods
are really in horrible shape. Back their downtown is not
what it had been, and we're trying to rebuild all
this back. But it does take leadership, It takes vision,
and it takes the ability to just push things through.
Once you have vision. We all have vision in the
(11:40):
in some regards, but then you have to have this
uh stick tutive, this disability to really ramrod stuff through
and stay with it when everybody tells you know, and
I'm I bet and I'm sure that on many occasions
you've been told you're crazy, why you're doing this, It's
gonna cost too much money. Who's all going to benefit
from this? But I love the idea that you've included everybody.
It's not just about sports. It's it's a it's an
(12:02):
all encompassing community kind of a situation. And I've always
thought that's the way to do it. Uh include everybody,
Include everybody from the arts of course of the sports, education, uh,
local businesses, families, whatever. You have to include everybody to
really sell something like this, So you know when it
came to that, because I'm just looking for some lessons myself.
What was your overarching internal philosophy in regards to how
(12:23):
do I approach this and how do I sell this
to the to the people in charge of the funds? Jill.
As an urban mayor, I'm strategically impatient. One of my
calling cards is I'm persistent. I ran for mayor in
two thousand ten, right after I went to rick Woodfield.
I lost. I ran again. In two thousand fourteen, I lost.
I ran in two thousand eighteen I finally won. So
(12:45):
the third time was the charm and if I didn't
win that third time, it was three strikes and you're out.
So I know the feeling of pressure. I'm very self aware,
and I'm like the Rocky Baba over here in Patterson
and we just, you know, keep getting hit and we
keep moving forward. That's the most important aspect of it all.
But I think after all these years, it's like whatever
(13:07):
we witnessed, my wife and I down in rick wood
Field were like, look, we want people to see that
as well. So we put together a presentation and we
saw them what we showed them, what we thought the
future would look like not only for hints of stadium,
but for the city, that it would be a major victory.
It would be a victory for this country. Think about
the level of social awareness here in this sky. They
(13:27):
used the term woke right, So like post George Floyd,
the murder of George Floyd, people started becoming more conscious
of race relations in this country. And this stadium speaks
to that. It speaks to the struggle for social justice
and civil rights and the scourge of segregation. So why
not jump on board and and help us become storytellers
(13:47):
for not only the city, but this country as well.
We're creating a template for other for other communities to follow. Absolutely,
there's other places that I know have you know, stadiums
or places within our community that that they hold near
and near to the heart that's really fall into disrepair.
Want to believe that they're going to start coming to
you and asking you questions, how did you do this?
And how do we do this? Where does it begin again?
(14:11):
How did you bring this coalition together? I think that's
important because I know that's we've been doing in Hazelton.
It's getting better, It's gotten a lot better. But we
still have a lot of work to do. And what
you're doing here and I'm reading about it obviously, and
I was researching the internet just checking all the videos out.
It's really impressive and I just watched. You don't know
how much I really dig what you're doing. Thanks, Joe,
I dig it too. And I will tell you we
(14:31):
have one of the largest Dominican parades in the area
and a lot of people from Hazelton. Come. You have
a large Dominican population over there in huge absolutely an
hour way outside of Patterson and Joe, you gotta expect
and Tom too, You're gonna I'm gonna extend an invitation
to my office. I'd love to host. I'll be honored
to host you guys here when I get back East.
I'm definitely gonna do that because once it's first of all,
the weather's got a break, Yeah, it will. Well. Well, look, look,
(14:56):
we have a date of April fourteen for the grand opening,
and we're going all out for this one. And we
picked up for fourteen for two reasons. April fift this
when Jackie Robinson broke the color bearer. Fourteen is the
number that Larry Dobe war with Cleveland. So we're paying
homage to two legends in one day. That is awesome.
Let's do this. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.
(15:18):
We get back. There's more to talk about. With Mayor
dre and Paterson, New Jersey. Welcome back to the Book
of Joe Podcasts. We are with the mayor of Paterson,
(15:39):
New Jersey, Andrea say In. Andre, I want you to
give people an idea. You've touched on this a little
bit about the city of Patterson. You mentioned it's grand history,
Alexander Hamilton's looks at those falls and started what was
the first planned industrial city in this country back in
the eighteenth century. And as Joe mentioned, it's kind of
like Hazelton, Pennsylvania. It is a true melting pot when
(16:02):
you think about you are a city of a hundred
and sixty thousand people and many many immigrants, Hispanic population, Turkey,
South Asia. Uh. You are the first Arab American mayor
of the city. I know there's a large Arab population
in your city. So give me an idea for people
who are not familiar with Patterson. And I'm sure you
have the challenges many urban cities have these days, and
(16:23):
what the city is like and where it's going these days.
Thanks Tom. Yeah. And according to Star Ledger, there was
article that said Patterson is the most diverse city in
the state of New Jersey. And we can make an
argument you say we're hundred and sixty thousand. I think
there's more than that. But we fought hard in the
last sense is to try to get as a complete
and accurate count as we can. We can make an
(16:44):
argument like we're like a microcosm of this country, more
like a microcrossum New York. We're like twenty miles outside
of Manhattan. And what we're trying to do here is
rewrite the narrative, and we need co authors. Joe, you
keep emphasizing like it's a total team effort, which is true.
Every time I see our governor, I tell him, Lick,
you're a cooker. Are right in this new narrative when
(17:05):
I see both of our United States Senators are congressman,
every elected official on every level is invested in this.
I'd say transformative, catalytic project because it essentially puts Patterson
back on the map. I talked about lean on me
when I when I go outside of town, and I
do often, I try to promote Patterson. I'm the cheerleader
(17:25):
in chief. I bring my Patterson pomp pomps and it, Oh,
what's Patterson? They misspell at all time. It's a pet
peeve that spelled one Patterson. Lean on Me. A Hurricane
starring Denzel Washington was about a middleweight contender from Patterson,
New Jersey. If you watch it again, and obviously I
mentioned Alexander Hamilton's Lou Costello, very prominent paterson Ian's. There
was actually a movie starring Adam Driver where he played
(17:46):
a bus driver from Patterson who wrote poems at the
Great Falls about Patterson that was released in two thousand seventeen.
So I want people to see the other side of
Patterson because very often you can get caught up in
the negative headlines, whether it's gun violence or if it's
Patterson b a destination for the wrong reasons. And when
I say wrong reasons, I mean the opioid epidemic that
(18:08):
many cities are struggling with across this country. Well, I
want to point out you. I think Joe, you mentioned
this or mayor mentioned this. There is a national park there, right,
the Great Falls, and right, I'm not sure when your
first baseball game is. But I do know the New
Jersey Jackals, a minor league team, are moving intension of stadium,
and when they play their first game there, that will be,
(18:30):
from my understanding, the first baseball game played entirely inside
a National park. You've got a lot going on in
that small area. It's true. It is the only ballpark
within a National park. So we're looking forward to the
New Jersey Jackals. After twenty five years of playing in
little falls in my family and I went and saw them.
We enjoyed it. We're looking forward to the Jackals coming
(18:53):
to Patterson. Their general manager played for the Mets, Bobby Jones,
and he's gonna holst clinics. He's gonna holt clinics and
pass it. We want to encourage our youth to play baseball.
Baseball is not as popular as it once was. I
just finished reading Cleon Jones book, and he said, like
when he was growing up in Alabama, he said that, look,
anybody could play baseball. Right. You didn't have to be
(19:15):
six ft eight, You didn't have to be two d
and fifty pounds of solid muscle or whatever it may be.
You could be not as tall, all right. You could
be diminutively challenged or vertically challenged. You could be heavy,
horizontally challenged. You could be anything and still play baseball.
So I wanna emphasize that when when the Jackals comment,
(19:37):
when Bobby Jones has those clinics for our community regarding
the field itself there, I mean that's because you know
the configuration of the field. You still have the horseshoe configuration. Yeah,
is that? So how how you in to set up
the baseball I'm just curious because you know that the
lines can tend to be shorter, did you guys? I'm
sure you guys figured something out with that, just a
curiosity factor. Yeah, the necessary adjustments for the Jackals. We've
(19:59):
already agreed to that. And one goal that we have,
and I've spoken to Harrold Reynolds extensively because he was
a Montclair one goal that we have is we want
that MLB Field of Dreams game in Patterson. They played
in Iowa and again no knock, but it was a movie.
That's a movie set. This is a real field, a
real field of dreams. So I can anticipate potentially having
(20:19):
the Mets play the other team from New York at
Hinchliff Stadium to be pretty groovy, man. Absolutely, I forgot
the name of the other thing. How great would that be?
From my understanding is the field is oriented towards the
open end of the horseshoe, and that you could have
and will be sort of a portable, movable outfield fence,
because let's face it, you're going to have other events.
(20:40):
They're correct, you will be able to play football games. Yes, Tom,
I'm sorry turning it rup. I didn't mention like we'd
love to have boxing there again, UFC. I'm sure, w
w E why not like a Monday night row like
a paid per view and Patterson, Sure, I'll get in
there with some of my political rivals age match. That's awesome, brother,
(21:03):
We'll get there for charity. I'll wrestle thunder Lips. You
know we do uh Mayor we do this in Pennsylvania.
We we had our and even in Chicago, I was
with the Cubs. Uh, my wife Jay and I did
something with the Chicago Youth Boxing and the Crushers Club
in the South Side of Chicago. The youth boxing component
also is very prominent. Um. It's you know, it's an
inexpensive way for these kids to get off the streets
(21:25):
and and learn, learn some discipline quite frankly, and show
up on time for a particular event. Um. Then you
start getting families involved in friends they come on out
and watch their their friends box. Um. Actually just standing
in the ring when we were doing this event in Chicago,
getting up in the ring, getting over the ropes, getting
in there, and then all of a sudden, you see, Wow,
I'm in this little combined area. There's nowhere to runners,
(21:47):
nowhere to hide right here. It's really an interesting concept
to box. But I've always thought I'd like to see
a resurgence and and resurgence and youth boxing. It's something
we were very very successful with the Chicago raised a
lot of money for those programs out there, and actually
we're gonna we were gonna do it in California to
until I got let go a little quickly out there,
so I never really transpired that. But but it's um,
(22:11):
I really, I really, I really think there's a lot there.
I mean, the the old Golden Gloves back in the day,
how popular they were in New York City. Even as
a kid, I would follow that in the daily news,
in the post on a daily basis whenever the Golden
Gloves were actually being fought. I just think that we're
missing out something there with youth boxing. It doesn't have
to be professional boxing, all these different items that cater
(22:33):
to the youth program, youth sports. Um, that's that's the
part to me that the more we could get on
board with that, that's really gonna make some inroads into
the future and really start raising some good citizens. You know,
Joe's insuing you point that out. Boxing was like my
first favorite sport, and when I can't sleep at night,
I just watched heavyweight bouts from the seventies. I was
watching ron Lyle versus George Foreman, the only winning times,
(22:57):
and I watched them all. I watched Alive versus Chuck
Webner because I got to watch all the Rocky movies
and said, this is the real Rocky. Here the Bayone
Leader from New Jersey, I might add, So we want
the diamond gloves in Patterson, we want them all. If
Evander Holeyfield wants to fight Riddick Both for the fourth time,
let's do it, Patterson. Let's go. Mike Tyson, you want
(23:17):
to fight my ear please? I got too, so Mayor,
how do you, how do you anticipate usage of the
stadium when it does open in terms of how many
days the schools get to use at, how many private events,
how many baseball games, that kind of usage. So demand
is gonna be very high. But we have an agreement
with the school district that the children will have the
students will have it for a hundred and eighty days
and that will include the Turkey Bowl game on Thanksgiving
(23:40):
between east Side and Kennedy. That will include graduations. And
we're also getting school colleges that say we want our
graduation Hinchlip as well. And I got a point out.
We have a partner in Montclair State University and their
visionary and enlightened leader, their president, Dr. Jonathan Copel, who
actually reached out to an alumnus, a benefactor or a
(24:01):
potential benefactor who was from Patterson and graduated from that college,
Montclair State University, and so magnanimous that he donated five
million dollars to the museum that we're going to have
here in Patterson, the one I alluded to earlier. Yeah,
that is awesome. That's nothing like telling the history and
people this generation, all of us should always be reminded
(24:22):
of those who came before us. By the way, when
the stadium does open, I will be looking for the
plaque that acknowledges that I played at Hingeblood Stadium, and
I did for Seton Hall Prep football game nineteen seventy
six against Paterson East Side in that ballpark. So I
will look for that bronze plaque. Okay, did you win?
(24:45):
Of course we won undefeated and never one team in
the state state champions Seton Hall Prep. And I have
to do that because I went to Seton Hall University,
where in full disclosure, I was a history major. Tommy,
out of all the things you've ever accomplished, that to
me is the most impressive that I've heard to this point.
Well done, well done, great well. I peaked at seventeen. Hey,
(25:11):
we're gonna take another quick break. We'll come back with more.
Let's stick around. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast,
said Mayor Dre. We're gonna include you in a little
segment we like to do with our guests. It is
(25:32):
called a reading from the Book of Joe. Of course,
it's based on our book, the Book of Joe, And
what we have is we have our guests pick a
number between one and three d and sixty eight the
number of pages in the book, because we believe no
matter where you crack open the book, you will find
an interesting anecdote, piece of advice, story, whatever it may be.
(25:55):
So the honor now is yours, Mr Mayor, to pick
a number, and we will go to that page in
the book. I'm going to choose fourteen for obvious reason.
Is Larry Dobe Paterson, New Jersey integrated the American League
with the then Cleveland Indians. Very nice? What are you
gonna learn about Joe's background? A little bit here? Oh Joe,
(26:16):
this is about This is about the one of the
more influential people in your life. And you don't even
know the woman's name to this day, I don't believe, right,
I don't he sitting on a plane when he was
feeling down in the dubs? What happened? You gotta passed
over for a job, correct? I did? Um. I had
been running the minor league system for the Angels from
pretty much until this to that particular moment, was in
(26:39):
charge of everything. I was setting up the programs and
eventually there was an opening on the major league staff,
and uh I was I really thought I should have
gotten and I did not, And um, I really stepped
out of character at that point. I never really had
thought of quitting anything up to that point. I was
that angry. I thought it was unfair, unjust all the
(27:00):
different things we all think when you get passed over
in a situation. So, uh not not a good guy
at that point, was really not myself and uh having
a hard time just reporting the ballparks, which is absolutely
insane for me to say that. Yeah. So Joe is
on a airplane in the middle seat and he puts
his headphones on, trying to cut himself off from the
(27:20):
rest of the world. He's got a chatty woman next
to him. We've all been there, right when you want
to be quiet and something. He wants to talk but anyway,
she all of a sudden has a piece of advice
that strikes him like a bolt of lightning. He says,
can you repeat that? Please? Sure? She said, Remember one thing,
whatever you put out there comes back to you. If
you put out positive vibes, you're going to get positive
(27:42):
vibes in return. If you put out negative vibes, you're
going to get negative vibes in return. Madden smiled for
one of the few times and months the words cut
right to his soul. Damn, you talk about a moment
in your life when the power of the words overwhelms you.
He says, here is this person. I never saw it before,
I never saw again after that. I could not have
(28:04):
been in a worse mood. And then she said that,
and I could not have been in a better mood.
I got off that airplane, got my rental car, checked
into the hotel, and went to the ballpark at Midland.
I walked into that ballpark with all the energy I
ever had in my life. I've found myself again with
me and had always been about a positive message, but
(28:25):
I had lost that. I went to the ballpark in
Midland that day knowing that if I got back to
what I had always been, which was to be a
positive influence, that by throwing out positive vibes to everyone
around me, that's what I'm going to get in return.
Madden has been shaped by the lessons and wisdom of
great leaders throughout his life, especially in his formative years,
(28:46):
and began with his parents and we go on from there.
But it's an appropriate message, I think Joe, especially for
this episode where positivity brings results. It almost sounds like
a scene out of City Slickers, which I just watched recently,
Jack Palance from Hazelton, when when Billy Crystal heads out
west of the Dude Ranch and all of a sudden,
(29:06):
you have this epiphany and everything just seems to change.
It's true, man, because you're recapping, recounting that, reading all that.
I'm just sitting here thinking exactly like in that particular moment,
and and how quickly I did change my attitude, and
also how I used that um in future moments where
I was really getting off track a little bit again.
(29:27):
And I would go back to that one term. I
use it as advice either to my kids or players,
or just people that come in contact with that. I
think maybe I've got a little bit sideways with their
attitude regarding just whatever. So it's just a real simple thought.
But she impacted me right between the eyeballs and it
and it holds true to today. And it's absolutely easy
and believable, and it's it's it's uh, it's it's not fluffy.
(29:51):
It's it's really accurate and it and it has a
lot of substance even though it is doing simple better
that's what she came down to for me. There. I'm
not sure if you had a similar epiphany, but how
about the influences on your life that's shaped your perspective. Yeah,
so I just want to get back to the City
Slickers because it should be noted that Billy Crystal war
Mets had in that movie. Sorry, Yeah, that really resonated
(30:18):
with me. And the reason why I struck a chord
is because I subscribe to if you have a positive outlook,
and that could lead to a positive outcome. So your
outlook can determine your outcome. And thanks to I have
to give credit my mother, a single mother raising me
in the city of Patterson. It wasn't always positive for her,
but her outlook was, look, I'm gonna make sure I
(30:39):
raised my son's right and want them to succeed and
I want them to be productive members of society. And
so you talked about sticktuitiveness. My mother demonstrated that because
she was an immigrant from Syria and drove a bus
and made sure that we were driven, meaning motivated, And
that's essentially what has motivated me to want to be
the mayor of Patterson and restore Hinchlift Stadium. So taking
(31:01):
a positive outlook and turning it into a positive outcome,
that's beautiful, man. And you just want to you know,
listening to this whole thing, and you've you've you mentioned
it earlier in the in the podcast regarding diversity, but energy,
um is diversity or diversity is energy. The more diverser
situation may be, the more different perspectives or points or
(31:24):
opinions that you may be able to generate, it's definitely
going to add to the genera, to the energy of
the situation. At the moment, listening to you right now,
I can understand why you are the position you're in.
You could lead so many different situations, whether it's a town,
a city like Patterson, organizations, whether it's a sports organization,
or just in in the corporate the corporate world. Your
(31:46):
energy is very infectious and it's sincere. That's that's another
thing that shows through um, passion, um and sincerity are
either real or they're not. And I absolutely believe I'm
talking to a real person right now, and I really
appreciate that about you. I didn't like I said we did.
We never met before today, but I can unders then
while you're meeting with so much success, and I just
(32:07):
want to wish you so much more success in the future.
And I'm looking forward to being in your company where
we could actually talk a little bit one on one
and hopefully I'll be able to get to Patterson when
Hinchliff is um rededicated at that point. But it's really
been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you, Joe.
It's an honor to make the both of you. You
keep point at my energy level. I mean, in addition
to being highly caffeinated. My daughter so Ja, that's right,
(32:30):
she's named for Sha Stadium. She didn't finish her frosted flakes,
so I don't wait. Let anything go awake. This is
a little bit of sugar in there. Last question for me, Mayor.
You clearly are a huge baseball fan. You mentioned you've
been to all thirty ballparks. Where did your love for
baseball come from? Oh? No, you got me on that one,
(32:51):
because my first favorite baseball player was Reggie Jackson, and
I actually did like Rick Serone, So you know where
I'm this, Like late seventies, I was wearing Yankee paraphernalia.
And then you want to talk about an epiphany. I
don't know. I was like, not that I thought I'd
be the mayor of Patterson, but I think it's a
prerequisite for anyone who wants to be mayor of any
town to know what hardship is like. And being Yankee
(33:14):
fan is not grueling, but being a Mets fan is.
So something happened in three. I was watching Channel nine
and I saw Ron Garden Higher That's who I remember,
and I'm like, Okay, you know he's not the best
baseball player, but at that moment he performed well, and
I think I'm gonna be a Mets fan now. And
I did. And like I stated before, I think that,
(33:34):
uh was a test of my metal metal to ultimately
assent to a position where I can serve people in
this capacity. So yeah, nineteen eight three is when I
had that lightbulb moment became a Mets fan. But and
my and my mother, like I said, an immigrant didn't
know baseball at all, so she didn't know anything about it.
I was just drawn to it and still am love it.
(33:55):
That's pretty obvious. Oh wait, hey, hopefay you have any uh,
I know you still have Jews, Joe if it show,
I'm in New York, So yeah, if you can give
Otani a call. That that would be I know that
wouldn't be tampering, not anymore. I'm not even yeah, I'm
not subject to that. Listen, he's wonderful, shows outstanding. Um.
(34:16):
I'm actually doing a little piece helping out with the
piece about him for some Japanese television right now. I'd
have a wonderful relationship with him. Still, he is all that,
he is that kind of a talent. Um. I keep
looking at reading about the five million dollar player, which
is probably true because he's two players. He's not one player.
So whatever, two players, uh, two of the best players
(34:38):
as a pitcher and a position player are worth That's
who he is. He is that good and on top
of that, he's a wonderful person. So we'll see how
this all plays out. But I'm always pulling for him. Thanks,
and again, I want to express that. I mean, I'm
profoundly proud to be here. I'm immensely appreciative of this opportunity.
I admire both of you and appreciate both of you.
Thank you, Thank you, well, thank you. This has been
(34:59):
a real pleasure. I think it's important for people, not
just in Patterson, that around the country to understand and
what is happening in that city and looking forward to
what will be come. I think may the first professional
baseball game played there since nineteen So congratulations to you
in your city. All the best of luck in same
(35:20):
to you happy and healthy new year. Right back at
your mayor and to your family, please to thank you,
Thank you well, Joe. I'm catching my breath here after
that wild fun ride, like I mean usement park ride,
going back in history and back to today and everything
being done here in Patterson with Mayor Dre. Let's call
a cup of energy. Man. But it's already ten o'clock
or later there. I'm just getting at eight o'clock in
(35:42):
the morning. You're in Arizona. But really an interesting man.
I could see why he's leading that city. It could see,
uh why there he's taken on such a project as
to revitalize Hinchlift and what that means in the community.
I can't wait to meet him. I really can't wait
to meet this guy. This is the kind of guy
you want to hang out with. Um things happen when
you're around people like Mayor Dre. So that was really cool, man.
(36:05):
Thank you for setting the whole thing up. I thought
was outstanding. Now it's so cool to hear of a
project like this that involves baseball and really an inner
city here and in an opportunity. And we talk a
lot about professional baseball coming back to that stadium for
the first time since nineteen fifty, but mixed use facility
that the entire community is going to be able to
(36:27):
use in baseball is really a big part of that. Absolutely.
Um And I like you said during the podcast, I
like I love the idea that he's including other components
of the city in the community, and it's not just
based on sports. He's gonna attract everybody to that uh,
to that place, including graduations, concerts. Uh. They've had, as
you suggested earlier. I doubt it's gonna happen again. But
race cards I read about that. That's incredible. They actually
(36:49):
had car racing in that oval. They're back in the day. Uh.
It's just Uh, it's one of those places man, that
when it gets up and running again, the whole the
whole area is gonna be attracted to it. They're gonna
be drawn to it. Uh. And then you're gonna start
the conversation about what had happened there. The past, which
I think is is absolutely pertinent and wonderful. So again,
UH props to uh to our mayor man. And like
(37:11):
I said, hopefully I'll get a chance to get back
there in April U to go visit in person, because
really I got to see this. I got to see
the whole thing in action. Yeah, and it looks really
cool too, doesn't it. The idea of it began back
in the nineteen twenties when there was the stadium boom
going on. And think of it as a kind of
a mini polo grounds, right with that big horseshoe. Of
course it's not that big, but our deco, exterior cast concrete,
(37:34):
it looks really cool. Can't wait to see it. All
about our deco. But I was really when it read
it was next to a national park. I'm thinking of
like Patterson as being this urban area, like there's no
wooded area around it, but of course Jersey is full
of it. And then I saw some images on on
the internet and really cool the way it looks like
it's on the outer skirts of town there and how
it does butt up against the wooded area. It's really
(37:56):
a neat area. Beautiful. Yeah, and maybe maybe some day
if we want to really dream big a major League
baseball game, they're a field of Aames game at Hingecliffe Stadium.
That would be awesome. It would it would absolutely. Joe
has been a pleasure. You've got something to take us out. Yeah,
one of a former Major League baseball player African American. Um,
(38:17):
I thought would be appropriate with the Negro league emphasis.
But this comes from Rickey Henderson. Actually had a chance.
It's in the book actually through Ricky Henderson out once
in the call Lea when he was attempting to break
the Calli record for stolen basis but then eventually uh
when the then eventually got me. The next time he
stole third base and got the record. But I read
this and this is so Ricky. Um. I thought it
(38:38):
was outstanding. He said, two thirds of the fans will
be there to see Ricky, two thirds to see Billy Martin,
and two thirds to see the Yankees. I don't know
exactly when he said that, but god, it's so true Ricky.
I had. I worked with him with the Angels briefly
(38:58):
when he was at the latter end of his career. Absolutely,
even when he was like almost forty years old, he
could deal the base. Do you know he was going?
You know he's running on this pitch, and know he's going,
he's gonna. They're paying all the attention to him. Pictures
quick to the plate and he still beats the throw
to second base. Unbelievable. One of my favorites. Quick story.
He was probably forty five, maybe playing independent minor league
(39:21):
baseball in Newark, New Jersey. And I had known Ricky
since the eighties, and I went to go see him
and do a story. And what I found out was
he was staying in Manhattan and he was paying more
to rent an apartment in Manhattan than he was getting
paid to play minor league baseball. He was literally to
(39:41):
play baseball, independent ball in the minor leagues in his forties.
That he's such a sweetheart, great guy, Never question his
love for the game. See you next time, Joe, Thank you, Buddy.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I
(40:02):
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.