November 30, 2023 • 48 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast with hosts Tom Verducci and Joe Maddon welcomes newly named Milwaukee Brewers manager Pat Murphy. Pat talks about getting the job and how he made his way to the majors. After being a player/manager in the minors, Pat explains how he started out being very tough on players but then truly learned how to manage a team. Tom and Joe ask about this Brewers team and the direction they're headed for next season. We close out with how Pat will feel facing off against some of his former players, who are now managers as well.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey there, welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the latest episode of the best baseball podcast on
the planet. It's The Book of Joe with me, Tom
Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe. I know
we've talked a lot, you have, specifically in the past
about not wanting anything before your time, that what has
gained should be well earned, and I think that applies
(00:37):
so well to our guest today. It's Pat Murphy, the
manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, and you talk about earning
a place in this game. How about twenty five years
coaching college baseball, six years managing the Miners, eight years
as the bench coach, and now with under Craig Counsel
and now the Brewers manager. Murph, Congratulations on the job,
(01:00):
and by the way, happy birthday selling reading a birthday
this week.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I've got to ask you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know you were an interim manager with the Pasan
Diego Padres, but getting the word that the Brewers were
choosing you giving you the full time job, what does
that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I'm excited, I really am excited if you're part
of this group of people that get an opportunity to
do this. I've got a great group of people around
me and the coaching staff, and it's like it's like
you've been invited to a fight, you know. Mean, there's
some nervousness and there's a little fear, and then you
know what, you go, Okay, you make the decision. Dang,
(01:37):
you hear the bell and let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Sounds familiar, doesn't it, Joe.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
That's a great description, right, Yeah, yeah, I know that's
a great description right there. I mean, anybody that says
they don't have that little bit of trepidation or fears
floating in their body somewhere, they're lying. It's a bit.
It's a big part of all of this. It's a
huge Regardless of how many years you've done it, Murpa
and I did the same thing, you still get to
that pinnacle at that point. And when you get that opportunity,
(02:01):
there's all those there are butterflies, for sure, go to
rest and they'll they'll settle down.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
And I also believe it's important that you have those
feelings because it's going to cause you to create the
opportunity to do your best work too.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
But listen, man, congratulations, I.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Love I love, thank you. I love that you got
this opportunity. I love that a lot of other guys
that have been doing this for a bit have gotten
their opportunities. To this year, it seems to be becoming
more prevalent. So anyway, looking forward to watching you. Man.
We did it for a while different dugouts and Milwaukee
and before and I saw you shoot.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
We did clinics.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We did clinics in Tennessee in the nineteen nineties. That's
my first summer. And then I watched them across the field.
So I couldn't be happy for.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
You, man.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Thank you, Man. I really appreciate I respect you a
great deal. Joe. You know I've come to you many
times in the past for advice and seeking out. I
love the way you did it, and I love the
way you do it. And yeah, the games in our head,
it's about people and it's in our head, and you
exuded that every time you went out there and had
your team's ready, it was it was really a privilege
(03:07):
to be on the same field.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I mean that, Hey, Joe, let me circle back to
something you said there about guys like Murph who we're
getting these opportunities now, and I think the pendulum is
starting to swing back, where the guy in the dugout
now is being hopefully revalued again for paying his dues, experience, wisdom,
whatever you want to call it. I look around at
(03:29):
the openings this offseason. There were seven of those, and
five of the managers hired were fifty three and older.
Craig Council, of course fifty three, Mike Schult fifty five,
A Bob Melvioyn sixty two, Murph at sixty five, and
Run Washington at seventy one. Average age of the seven
managers hired this winter fifty seven. So, Murph, I got
(03:52):
to ask you, the way the game had been trending
when Counts left, did you think you'd have a chance
at this job? And you also have to tell the
story about how you found out that you were the choice.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, I think it's it's just an ebb and flow
of any industry, you know what I mean. You start
thinking that this is the way to go, and then
all of a sudden you start to realize Wow, I mean,
I don't joke and vouch for this. And Tom, you
look like you're thirty three, so I don't really know
how old you are, but you know, it's like you're
way smarter when you're a little bit older, You're way
(04:26):
smarter when you failed. You're way smarter when you've been
kicked in the teeth a few times. And so I
never understood why were we were not going with guys
with a little more wisdom. And it's just one of
those things that I think makes sense in any industry,
you know, but we get we get excited about the
(04:47):
shiny new toy and you know, that type of thing.
But I didn't. I didn't know what was going to happen.
I wasn't. I just stopped worrying about what's going to
happen if I got this shot, I'm going to get
this interview, and I just stopped worrying about it, and
I just trusted and whatever's going to happ happen. Let's
let's keep our priorities what they are. My kids, my job,
(05:08):
you know, my health, that type of thing, and then
let it, let it, let it fall. And once I did,
things fell into place. I didn't try too hard. I
didn't try to impress anybody. Yeah, it was. It was
a beautiful process for me. I'm pleased with it. Getting
the job, I got a phone call from Matt Arnold FaceTime.
I'm like, dude, I don't I don't just FaceTime other dudes,
(05:31):
you know what I mean, Like, I just don't you know, man,
I don't know. I don't know what it is. Maybe
the age that I am. So sure enough I get
a FaceTime, so I feel like I got to pick
it up. I pick it up and it's his eleven
year old son, Tyler, and Tyler's like, hey, Murph, now
you got to know the story. The real story is
that Tyler and I this past year spent some time
(05:54):
in the locker room together, and my job was to
kind of teach him the lingo in the locker room.
Some of it you couldn't bring home to mom. So
that became the funny thing. And I would question him
how many times he used certain words, and I said,
as long as you have your baseball club in your hand,
you can use these words. So it became a joke
(06:16):
between Arnold and I, like, God, Murph, my kids home
saying this and this, but he's got his glove in
his hand. So we kind of connected. And then sure
enough he called and say, Hey, how would you like
to be the manager of the Brewers, and it was
just it was a beautiful moment that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's so cool you got hired by an eleven year old.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I just want to say something too there. I mean
this your your few sentences. It's a couple of minutes
with Murph. Indicator exemplifies exactly who he is. He's an educator.
The guy's an educator. That's the thing I was writing
my notes down before this. So when you get the
the guy through the good collegiate background, especially not even
more so than the minor league background, although you have both,
(07:00):
there's the Murph is an educator. There's a difference when
he just described the way smarter theory about experience of
those little phrases that to me resonates as a young
player and coach coming up through the minor leagues, you're
always able to recognize the guy that was more educational base.
(07:20):
And I'm not slamming or glorifying either side of just
typically what you do and what you've always done, You've educated.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
That's who you are.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
When I did that clinic with you in Tennessee, I'm
sat in the back of the room. This is God,
this is twenty five years ago, whatever it was, and
you're an educator, and I think that's probably what Maddy
recognized with you also, and your ability to connect with
a variety of players in this situation, a variety.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Of different ages.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Because you're an educator, you have your ability to get
your point across, just like you did to Maddie's son,
or what you've done by describing the way smarter, just
by having some experience. So that's the part I'm really
excited about for you, and for the industry and for
your group is sometimes that's missing. You have abilities to
(08:07):
tie things together that a lot of us don't.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
And I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I mean that's when we used to talk you always
i'd listen obviously, and God, this guy really he does.
He puts sentences together really well, he puts thoughts together
really well, and a lot of it's based first being
very bright and second of all having all these different
in this sense baseball experiences too. So anyway, I just
wanted to say that because that was something that I
written down before, because there's a there's a lot to
(08:34):
be said for that, and I don't think again, that's
another part of the evaluation process that I don't think
we think about her talk about enough as you're hiring people.
He's got a great professional background, but it's really the
foundation is a great collegiate background, which created the teacher
that he is.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
What's interesting about you saying that? I want to you
guys ask the questions, But what's interesting about you talking
like that? First of all, I gotta be honest. I've
never considered myself bright. I'd love to be, but it's
just as it worked out that way. I always like
to look at Perducci and I'm like, that guy's smart,
you know what I mean, And be quite frankly, Joe,
(09:13):
I'd look at you and I'd be like, God, that's wisdom,
you know. And I envied you when I was in
college and I watched the stuff you're doing with the
angels and all that kind of stuff, way back when
before you were the Cubs manager, before your Tampa Bay manager.
You know, like I envied that. And again, and this
is not just a hugfest here, but you know, I
(09:33):
think about I think about the most important thing we
can do in life, and that is to impact somebody
else somehow, might not even be a pleasant one, but
to impact someone else. You've done that for me, Joe,
and how you've how you've run your clubs, and how
you've set an example out there. But I think those
are the things that what else do we What else
(09:55):
do we have? Coaches are like offensive linemen. We open holes.
Hopefully the guys run through it. They score, they spike
the ball, they get the attack. We open hosts. Can
you measure what we do?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, right, can't measure And I think that's that's the
beauty of our what we do. That's why you have
to stay humble about it. You can never measure the
impact you're having. You know, did you make Rizzo a
better ball player? I believe yes, But can you really
measure it?
Speaker 5 (10:26):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And that's what this whole thing is about.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Hey murf get if you can. What are the similarities difference?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Hey Murph, shut up, shut up so you can I
get it?
Speaker 5 (10:36):
I get.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I mean you got me thinking now about the differences
or similarities between say, coaching a college kid eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old and a major league player who's you know,
got a family, maybe he's got one hundred million dollar contract.
I'm sure there's probably more similarities than differences. But what
(10:57):
are the challenge with the major league guys in terms
of reaching them and motivating them the way you did
say with college players.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, totally different, totally different because it's a new era.
And like you said, now you're dealing with a grown
man who doesn't need to listen to me. So you
got to build a connection with a first, a trust.
I just got off the phone with one of our
young players, who I love. I mean, I love this kid.
He didn't have the best of overall years, but you
(11:26):
know what, I love the kid. I love his spirit,
I love what he's about. I know he can play
the game. I believe in him, and I think I
think he senses that. Now is he mature enough to
go Okay, Now I'm going to listen to this guy,
and now I'm not going to listen to all the
noise around me. But it's totally different, you know, Like
the younger players are a little easier obviously, the old veterans,
(11:48):
you know, it's more of a challenge. And I've been
standing here for eight years watching it, trying to relate,
always having done a good job. Then you got to
relate to guys from Latin America, from a totally different culture,
and you can't can't fool them, you can't be ask them. So, yeah,
what an education? What a process? You know, we're trying
(12:11):
to figure it out. I'm sitting here in a little
dungeon here, and I'm in the stadium, and I'm trying
to figure out, how do I get to this guy?
You know what I mean? How do I how do
I get to Wilson Contrares? You know, like, all right,
it's William I guess on our team.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
The other one?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, how do how do I really impact this guy?
How do how do I help them? Do I just
stay away from? How do how do I do this?
I mean, it's so it's a it's a constant because
the other the baseball stuff that is joke and tell
you way better than me. I mean, like the baseball
stuff is the baseball stuff, you know what I mean.
And we've got experts now breaking it down from all
(12:49):
different angles. But the head is the head, and there
ain't you know, there ain't nothing more important than what's
going on between the roars.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Well you just describe it too, I mean you just
described it regarding the connection with the players and how
to get across with that. That is the years of
experience that you've had. I mean, I'm big on Blink,
the book by Malcolm Gladwell about intuitive thinking and what
you've done for the last forty years, whatever it's been.
You've put all this stuff in that cauldron, all these
(13:17):
different players that you have met, all the different situations
you've been in. Even the fact that you're a recruiter,
I mean a lot. You know, we've never had a
recruit on a professional level. You had to walk in
the houses and you had to talk to parents, and
you had it. You saw from so many different angles.
You're the scouting department, you're you're the GM, you're the
director of scotting, you're the charge of player development, You're
all those things, and so you have all these different
(13:39):
conversations that you've accumulated over the years.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
I'm not even thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
So when you just described there, it's that nanosecond, It's
that moment that whatever is required of that moment, whether
you're talking about Contrarass and how to approach him or
this fellow you just described that you really like that,
you love his spirit, but it hasn't worked out yet.
But it's crazy because of the experiences that you've had,
these thoughts come rushing to your head and you have
(14:06):
to actually stole them down and control them and compartmentalize them,
because there's going to be so many thoughts coming to you,
and you're gonna compare them to this guide to the
people that you've met in the past, players you've met
in the past, and how those conversations worked out. So again,
I guess what I'm really emphasized, here's the experience component
and the fact that you've had all these different baseball
(14:28):
moments that yeah, this is really beneficial to an organization
when you then have these conversations with these players because
you have so much to draw on.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but when
we get back, Joe, you're gonna love this. We're going
to take a trip back to the Northwest League in
the nineteen eighties because I love diving into origin stories
in the background of Pat Murphy. I'm sure we're gonna
get some amazing stories from back in the day as
a minor league player and manager. Back right after this, be.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Ready, be ready, all.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Right, merkh I gave the tea's about the Northwest League.
Now you signed with the Giants and you wound up
playing your first year for Salem with the Padres. How'd
you go for the Giants to the Padres. Let's start
with that.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I walked out on the Giants after like three weeks there.
I was I caught my junior year in college. My
senior year, I pitched and DHD at FAU. Then I
signed with IT. I gave me a free agent contract,
signed with the Giants. I had a shoulder. I had
a shoulder problem. Anyways, I went to Great Falls. I
(15:47):
was there like ten days whatever. We're getting ready to
break camp and I get the coaching offer from Maryville
College Division III football baseball. They called me in the
last minute and said, look now the baseball job's open.
You can be the head baseball coach, the assistant football coach.
Do you want it? And my shoulder was barking. I
(16:10):
threw the ball. Okay, they were going to send me.
I was going to play in Great Falls for that
short season. And so I went to him and I said, hey,
I'm going to take this job. I'm going to be done.
They're like, well, you got to voluntarily retire. I'm like,
I'm not going to voluntarily retire. Whatever. They made me
sign these papers and I left. I left Great Falls
to be the head baseball coach assistant football at Maryville.
(16:33):
So I went and did that. Well. After that first
season football and baseball, I got the itch. I'm like,
I can still pitch. My shoulder had calmed down. I
went out and threw a bullpen for a guy named
Dick Egan, who Joe knows, and he claims I threw
it in his front yard, but I pessed. I pestered
him pretty good. I threw at the University of Tennessee.
I struck out Alan Cockrow and you know, Ellen Cockle,
(16:55):
they're getting ready to go to the regional. They're getting
ready to go to the regional, and he got this
crazy kid. Dick Egan said, I did it in jeans,
but I didn't have jeans on. Anyways. You know, I'm
throwing live to try to earn a job, and Cockle's
trying to go to the regional and they tell him
to have these at bats against this crazy guy. Anyway,
I punch him out. He's looking at me like, bro,
(17:16):
this is supposed to be live VP, not you breaking
off sliders. Anyways, Egan signs me. He goes, look, you
got to show up tomorrow. In Salem, Virginia, and there
was a Padres team and I'm like, what, I haven't
thrown to a live hit or except.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I got to stop you there. Northwest League, by the way,
you just missed Joe. He'd been there the previous couple
of seasons. I think, Joe, you're off to Midland, Texas
at that point, right, but you're playing for the Dry
Cities in the Northwest League eighty five. Now that's an
independent team. They had been a Texas affiliate. They lost
their affiliation.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You're playing games at a place called the Bomber Bowl,
home of the Richland High School baseball team.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
That's where you're playing.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yep, you're drawing eight hundred and seventy six people a
game packed. I don't know if you know the story
of a guy on the team named Ken Cosky. This
is a guy who pitched a small college in California.
Draft He thought that bonuses were way too small, so
he's like, forget it, I'm not playing pro ball. He
goes into real estate in San Diego, marries a couple
(18:17):
of kids. Twelve years later, he decides I'm going to
try out for the Tri Cities team.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
He makes the team makes the team. That's what kind
of team we're talking about here, folks.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So, and he was called, by the way, the unnatural
Kenkowski was So, I mean, how did you wind up
actually managing the team as well?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Bobby Brett owned the team. Ken's Kenny and George. He
was pretty good. Kenny and George and Bobby and John Brett. Yeah,
they owned that team. And I was there the year
before and pitched for him and had to leave early
because I was coaching football in a new school in California,
(19:01):
Claremont College. So I became the same position assistant football
had baseball at Claremont. But they call me and say, hey,
you want to come back and be the manager. I said, sure,
you know, I'll do it. Bobby and so they may
be the manager. But they said we're going to be
a co op team. No independent players, were just going
(19:24):
to be co op. Oh. I was disappointed because I
know co op meant they're just other teams are just
going to lend you players. We opened the season. This
is a great story and this is true, and you
can do the research on the numbers. We opened the
season against Spokane, one game at home and one game
on the road. We had fourteen players. We had nine
(19:44):
position players in five pitchers. Well, that wasn't going to
do it. So in the first the second game of
the season at Spokane, second game of the season, we're down
nine to nothing in the ninth inning. Rob peach Low's
the opposing manager. God rest his soul and we're down
(20:05):
nine to nothing. Bruce Keyson's my pitching coach. He leaves
in the eighth inning. He's so disgusted that we only
have fourteen players, and he committed to doing this. Bruce Keson,
the great Pittsburgh Pirate. God rest his soul. Anyway, he
leaves in the eighth inning, says Murph Paint doing this.
Randy Smith, who later became the player development guy in
(20:27):
San Diego, was doing the radio. I put myself in
the pitch in turf shoes because we didn't have any
other players and I didn't want to use my rotation
for the rest of the week, so I put myself
in the pitch in the eighth inning. Ended up pitching
four and a third or foreign four and two thirds,
something like that. You got to check the box score.
(20:48):
Four and two thirds. We tie the game with two
outs in the ninth. We score nine in the ninth
to tie the game. We win the game eleven to
nine and that's true, and eleven innings or something like that,
and I ended up pitching four innings. That was my
first manager will win.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Wow, book it the tri City Triplets. They go twenty
six and forty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's a record.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Steph Era was five point.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Five ninep the trout.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
This is really your first I know you coached in college, Murph,
but it's really your first managing gig. I mean it's
you got tested that year, There's no question about it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Did you know at that point that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You were in the right spot being a manager in
professional baseball?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah? I mean I've been a head coach for two
years in college, and you know I knew that this
is the direction. No, No, I gotta be honest. Many
people said you need to stick with football, that football
is your deal. You can you have a demeanor and
you're the way you go about it. And I didn't
know jack shit about coaching. I gotta be honest. I
(21:54):
didn't know anything. You know, I'm a young kid. I'm
just banging around and just trying to do whatever. And
I hear this thing called coaching. You're like, yeah, I'm
supposed to tell everybody what to do, but I kind
of did it like a football coach. Then I get
the job at Notre Dame. They were like a club program,
you know, no scholarships, all that kind of stuff. And
(22:15):
in my heart and soul, I love Notre Dame so much.
I was so blessed to be there. It's a part
time job, but I didn't care. I just I wanted
a coach. Now. Was I inappropriate? Was I too much?
Was I like a football coach? Absolutely? But my heart
and what I really wanted was Notre Dame baseball to
be great, not Pat Murphy to be great, Notre Dame
(22:37):
baseball to be great. And that was just so congruent
that we ended up winning big and Notre Dame baseball
became kind of a national power here without scholarships. It's
kind of a cool story. And I did it with
great people, just great people, and I believed me to.
I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I
was just drive and drive and drive and drive. But
(23:00):
my real intent was to help Notre Dame baseball be great.
And by the time that I decided to leave Notre
Dame Baseball had been in three final sixteens in a
row without full compliment scholarships, with just great people dealing
with a psychotic coach who just wanted just couldn't get
(23:21):
off of them. I just I wouldn't. I wouldn't take
my foot off their neck. One of them was Craig Counsel.
I thought he'd never speak to me again. I was
so tough on him, but it worked, and then I
started to learn a little bit about coaching once I
got the ASU and you're in that six pack, and
you got Mark Marcus and Mike Gillspie And I don't
(23:41):
know why nobody likes me. You know, I'm a jerk
to opposing coaches. I can't I can't understand it. But
I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have My college coach,
Steve Traylor was wonderful, still my great friend today, and
he encouraged me to go into coaching. But I didn't
really know how to do this thing. Man, I just
(24:02):
had no idea. I was a bull in a China closet,
to say the least. But I was winning games. And
I go out and talk, and my number one talk
these days is be careful coaches. If you're winning games,
don't think you're a good coach, because it doesn't indicate
you're a good coach, especially on that level.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well, I love hearing that story. First of all, it's fascinating.
As you mentioned, he really didn't have mentors. You kind
of were learning on your own how to do the job.
I think that is very unusual. But we talk a
lot in this podcast, Murph about pure intentions and when
you go after something with pure intentions, not as self
driven agenda or an underlying it's rewarding when good things happen.
(24:43):
It sounds like that's exactly how you went about coaching
and managing. Was not to promote yourself, to start climbing
the ladder, if you will, but in this case, make
Notre Dame great.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It really was. It was as pure as it could be.
I was making seven thousand dollars a year seven that's
nineteen eighty eight. I'm making seven thousand a year, and
I could care less. The guy came into me and
he brought me my first paycheck, Brian Bullock. He brought
me my first paycheck, and I you know, multiplied. I
figure I get paid every two weeks. I've multiplied it
(25:15):
by twenty four. No, no, no, no, that's by seven.
And I'm like, what, he goes, Yeah, it's all it's
all we have. That's a stipend for the head coach.
No assistant coach money, no recruiting money. Just got in
my car and drove and the guys know it. I mean,
I got great friends in the game that know that
(25:35):
I just drove my car. And I didn't know what
I was looking at either, but I was NonStop. The
woman of my life, Michelle is now that she's from Hawaii,
she never never had been the Notre Dame. She's still
there as a tenured professor. Wow, and we're still great friends.
(25:55):
She's still there. She got it. She decided to get
her PhD in biology and genetics, and she's still there
as a tenured professor. And god, what a story. She
had never even she heard a Notre Dame. But she
was a student at the Claremont Colleges at the time.
And I met her when she was a graduate assistant
in volleyball, and we were together seven years. And she
(26:19):
she laughs about it now, telling me like, you know,
you were just so committed, you motiv motivated me. That
I started thinking, like, I need to be like this.
What she didn't know is I had no idea what
I was doing. I was just I was just seven
am to midnight every night, just worrying about making Notre
Dame baseball great. But you know, the ego, the ego
(26:39):
starts to get in there when you start winning a
bunch of games. And we won right away, and and
of course it wasn't that hard to do that, but
because of you know, Midwestern baseball at the time was
not that good and I had great kids. I had
the right kids, and Uh, anyways, your ego starts trickling
in there a little bit. And then by the time
(27:01):
I got the ASU, it was a lot about myself
that held us back. We did become, you know, a
great national program and back to the World Series a
number of times, but it was still a little bit
too much about me. So, yeah, you learn those lessons
and ebbs and flows, and it's just it's as Joe
can tell you, it's constant. Uh. This profession is so wonderful,
(27:25):
it's so incredible that you know, it teaches you everything
you need. And I just I'm so passionate about young
coaches about them, you know, getting it right because they're
so It's such an important position, especially in high school
and college, it's so important.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
That's a great recap, honestly of pretty much everything, I mean,
your everybody's feeling in the passion that Merph Scott for
this situation, for this game, all the different stops, all
the different lessons, and the fact that you know when
without the mentors, I mean, that's the thing that uh,
I really see it is being important and valuable today
(28:06):
in today's game. I'd like to see more of that.
I like to see more mentors within the minor league,
not necessarily for players, but I like to see more
mentors for coaches. I don't think that we're hiring enough
former major league or professional caliber coaches players and go
back to the minor leagues and pass the game along
to the next group and next generation of coaches. I'm
(28:28):
still concerned that it's too much data driven regarding what
we're teaching and how we're teaching it. And I'd really
like to see some very strong.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Good base It's change, that's it's got to change, you know,
because we know the next phase in this game is psychology,
right Like, we don't really know, like I don't know
about your specific cases and your teams, but the sports
psychologists it's a very tough spot to put him on
a major league bench and help him. So we got
to educate. In my opinion, we've got to educate coaches
(28:59):
on how to become that psychologists themselves and how to
how to help young people. I'm not talking about serious
mental issues where you can go to your employee assistance guy,
I get it. I'm talking about the psychology of sport
and just how you're going to handle yourself day to day.
(29:19):
I think we need to educate coaches so we can
do that. Then the data can help us. It does
help us. I mean the data helps us, there's no
doubt about it. But it still comes down to people.
This game is played by people. It will always be
played by people in that person's mental state, including the
manager and coaches. Those mental states are vital and if
(29:41):
we can keep them at a great level, we've got it.
And I think that's the next wave. Even though it
can't be measured, I think the emphasis has got to
be there.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's a great point where if I think what
you're talking about, and we've talked about a lot here
on the podcast is teaching and what coaching means. It
doesn't mean just passing along data. We all love the
data and we know how useful it is, but there's
another skill associated with it, and that's the delivery of it.
And it sounds like you see yourself as an educator
(30:11):
more so than as a quote unquote major League baseball manager.
And my guess is that's that's not going to change
now that you are a manager of the Milwaukee Brewers.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Mer Scott one year, Scott one year man, things are
things aren't changing.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
This is who he is.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
This is a perfect read indicator of who this man is.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
This is not going to change.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
This is exactly what it's going to look like that
first day at spring training in the Milwaukee Top House
and Maryvale this year, it's going to be exactly the same.
This is who he is and that's wonderful and the
game means more of that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Thanks, Joe, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, Well, tell me about your team, Murph.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
The Brewers are in kind of a kind of strange
spot here with no Brandon Woodruff. You've got Corbyn Burns
and Willia Domas entering their last year in a contract
with Milwaukee, get some good young players coming up in
the minor league system. What excites you about this group
in twenty twenty four and I and listen, I know
we still have the off season in front of us.
(31:09):
Things can change, But as we sit here today, what
do you like?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I mean, the young energy is just it's it's incredible, man,
It's uh, yeah, I love the I just love it.
I love the young energy. You know, Like these guys
are willing. I think they can be uh it can
be guided a little bit. They're at that good phase.
They're at that good phase of their career. They're hungry,
(31:32):
they're willing to do whatever. We've got some kids with
aptitude that that that they're exciting, you know. And yeah,
and we got the good veterans. I mean Yelich. If
you spend time with Yelich, you just you love this guy.
I mean he's humble, beyond belief, and he's a baseball player.
(31:53):
You know, when you start you start realizing what this
guy's accomplished in the game, and how long he's played
in the major leagues and how long he's done it
at a pretty consistent level. His bad years are decent years.
You know, like he's just really really consistent, and he
doesn't in a way that doesn't really light up the
analytics because he doesn't hit a lot of fly balls.
(32:15):
You know, he hits line drives and ground balls. He
hits the ball the other way. He runs the bases,
but hey, snuck in there that forty home run here,
another thirty plus home run here or whatever, and you
know you start to think, wow, he can do that
every year. But now he's he's a great veteran to have,
and you know we've got losing Woody Joe. You've got
(32:39):
a guy in your career that you can look at
and go, this was a dude, man. I mean he
and he was humble and still hungry, and it was
all about the right stuff. He's all about the right
stuff and he was just getting better. So to lose
him to injury, I still got this twinge of hope
(32:59):
that somehow we sign him even though he can't pitch
this year, because he's so influential in our locker room.
It doesn't try to be, but he's just it's who
he is, big wolf.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's beautiful, sounds like Johnny Lester Joe.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah, I mean there's there's those guys we've all had him.
There's and again you're talking about immeasurables. Just his personality,
is his just being his presence within the group, the
difference that makes within that group.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
That's the kind of stuff that I really I have
paid a lot.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Of attention to and I know you have also, And
these are the kind of things that again, try to
measure this up, and it's hard.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
How do you how to exactly measure that. We'll put like,
we'll say he's.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Got eighty makeup, but how do you break that down?
And is everybody going to listen to you? It's so
important to have those guys within the group. Beyond the
actual of course you have to have town. Of course
you have physical talent, you have to have good players, yes,
but once you get all that stuff lined up, I
like David Ross being my backup catcher in twenty sixteen.
As an example, Johnny Lester when he came over that
(34:02):
was that's still one of the best free agents signs
of the last I don't know, fifteen to twenty years
doesn't get enough press or talked about often enough. Johnny
Lester was that much of a difference maker. You want
Johnny Lester in a big game. So these are the
kind of things and guys that when I was with
the Rays in two thousand and eight, we got over
the hump because we had good players.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
We got Andrew made some nice trades.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
But then here came Cliff Floyd, Troy Percival, and Rik
Kinsky all at once, and they just totally turned our
clubhouse around. She had a bunch of nice young players,
but without those three guys, even in limited roles, could
not have done it.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Could not have done it.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
So those are the kind of things to me that
I think needs to be to pay more attention to.
I mean, talent's always gonna be the writing factor, no question,
but you have to have the glue guys to bring
it all together to.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Make it work.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's interesting. It's a good day for me to hear
that I'm going into a meeting at three thirty with
our front office. And yeah, a good day to hear that,
because that's that's really what we're sitting on that you know,
we're sitting on that interesting side note, Joe, I got
to tell you this where our lives are connected. We
had a issue signed John Lester to come and play
(35:14):
for us as a two way guy right Seattle. Yeah,
two way. I mean he could. I thought he could
swing the bat. I know he had a rough start, but.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
That's two of the because I love this swing.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I said, tell him, I told you, but Johnny's going
to hit and he had an Opra one thousand. I said, no, no,
this guy's got a good swing. Then all of a sudden,
he starts popping balls in the left central Did you
ever see him hit a golf balls out of sight?
That's sorry, I didn't mean to rept you, but I'm
I'm on the same bad way with I've always thought
Johnny lester and he was one of He was possibly
(35:47):
the best bunner I had on that team in Chicago.
He was the best bunner.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So we I flew my assistant to Seattle to see
him play flight delay. One thing leads to another. Traffic
in Seattle didn't realize it, or traffic wherever, trying to
think of the town he was from, and they was.
He then got there. He said, I saw one at
bat and I saw one inning pitching. I said, what
(36:12):
do you think? He goes, I think it's real, And
everybody around here says it's real. Whatever. He came for
a visit, we signed him to scholarship. They issue and
the Boston took him in this as their first pick,
but it was a second round pick.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
And yeah, I've always kidded him after that, like Leicster,
I know, you can hit man. And then we couldn't
beat him when he was in Chicago against us. You know,
he had the trouble picking off and had the trouble
throwing the bases and all that, and we had all
these plans and the guy would just end us beat
He just beat us. He put aside that and he
just throw that cutter you know, back door cutter down
(36:51):
and in cutter up and in cutter. I mean, he
just he dominated us. He's metal monster. I loved it.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We got by that by just telling him, don't worry
about the runner. Do the things that you do do well,
you step off, because step off right, you could, you
could quick step and you could pitch out through.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Those three things.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
And don't worry about the runner, and that he was
one one two to play the.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Right exactly what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
And then the runners, we get such large leaves, they
felt they're they're in an area that they felt so
uncomfortable with it that they could not and then you
have Contreras picking on the backside. Nobody even gave Wilson
enough credit for the back pick right there that really
really tethered runners the first base. I know we're going
up in the diet Troy by here, but I'm a
Johnny Lester guy, big time.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Hey, Murph, Two more quick questions for you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Number one, I got to know what number you're wearing
as manager of the brewers, because this was a couple
of years ago. You had number fifty nine and you
gave it up for John Axford when he came along,
and for some reason you took number double zero, right,
So are you keeping that?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Or they gave me double zero? I didn't. I didn't.
I didn't. It fits Milki Shaugar our clubhouse manager or whatever.
He's vice president or something now. But I give them
a hard time. Hokie gave me zero zero And then
I they said me, manager, what number do you want
to wear? And I said, I started at Notre Dame,
(38:13):
same situation. I started with twenty one Berto Clementi, and
I said, it's twenty one available. It seems like too
good of a number for a manager, you know, like,
you know, I don't want to take away a player's
number that you know, it's pretty nice number twenty one.
So I showed up for the press conference and they
had number.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Twenty one, So yeah, it is very cool.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Half of forty two awesome. I wore forty two at
a issue and twenty one day, well done.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I love that story. I love the when there's a
meeting behind those numbers.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
And finally, I can't wait for how many times thirteen
times is going to happen when you manage this year
against the Chicago Cubs and you look across that diamond
and there's Craig Council trying to outwit you.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
What is that going to be?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Like, I won't pee hard. I mean counts counts. A
thirty seven year relationship counts and I and it's taken
on so many forms. As a seventeen year old in
Milwaukee County Stadium working out while I was eating dinner
with sal Bando, hitting on the field with Salbando Junior,
and I'm watching from the suite to player at Notre
(39:26):
Dame two friend going through the minor leagues to living
together in Arizona when he played for the Diamondbacks, meeting Michelle,
his wife, who's definitely his better ass, you know, just
knowing all his kids, and then becoming his bench coach,
you know, watching him his first first first try it coaching,
(39:51):
you know, and watching him and really just learned. I
mean I learned a great deal. And people called me
his mentor believe me, believe me. I learned so much
from him and watching him do it. He taught me
the major league game. Yeah, it's how's it gonna be?
I don't know, I don't think about it.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Gonna be weird, It'll be weird, that's right.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, for you, Joe, when you were going up against
say Mike's Soosha, do you get the job with Tampa?
Speaker 5 (40:17):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Yeah, I mean it is I think, you know, there's
a little bit higher level of mental acuity at that point.
Just being honest, you just go into it that way.
I think maybe after the first couple of meetings it'll
relax a little bit. But the first couple of meetings
in even like going back Downheim Stadium for the first
time when I went to the Raids was like, wow,
I got I got kicked out of the first three
(40:40):
games that I managed at Anaheim, I think something like
that play at first base, a couple of arguments with
the umpire close play if we were terrible, I mean
I was a devil Ray we were awful, but I
got kicked out I think three games, and then eventually
things settle in and then you start kicking their butt.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
So that's just how it works. But it's called.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Being a human being. You just can't help it. And
like you said, just gonna go do it. You're gonna
go do it. You're going to tell yourself to be chill,
do this whatever, read deeply. But when the game begins
or as you see the cubs on that side and
there were standing there, it's just natural and you'll get
over it.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
You'll get over it.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
It's just it's not about me, you know what I mean.
Like that's what I'm thinking about, Like it ain't it
ain't counts versus me and the type of thing. It's
just that you know, I have my heart attack counts
as at my bedside for like four hours. I had
to kick him out of the kick him out of
the rooms. It counts. Get out of here, man, let's go.
You got better things to do. I mean, I'm fine
(41:37):
and uh, I mean he's a beautiful man. Uh. We'll
be friends for life. This this little you know, how
many years we go against each other ain't kind of matter.
And we might get pissed at each other, so what
I was pissed at him half the year every year,
So it doesn't matter. You know, we'll we'll always come through.
We He means a lot to me, his family means
(41:58):
a lot to me. And but this is this is
what we do, and we'll compete each other against each
other like crazy fun.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Can't wait for it, Murph. This has been a pleasure, man,
my pleasure. From Tri City Triplets to the Milwaukee Brewers.
It's been quite a journey, and it's the good part
is only just beginning now.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I'm sure it just keeps getting better.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thanks so much for your time and best of luck
in twenty twenty four and beyond.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Thank you, thank you. I love you to both man,
it's really really cool getting to know you guys.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Murph to you and your family
there too, all right, buddy, thank you to you.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Alsome all right, Joe, this has been a great visit
with Murph, and we're gonna wrap it up with some
closing thoughts right.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
After this.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe. That
was as fun as I thought it would be. Murpha
is just a true gem in this game. And the
Milwaukee Brewers, I give them a lot of credit for
giving him the job. A guy who obviously has been
there under credit council for eight years knows the system,
knows the player easy transition to make. But in this
(43:08):
day and age, I give them credit for stepping up
and hiring the right guy.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I mean, it's just by listening to this entire podcast
do you find out who he is? And who he
is is pretty much the guys that I grew up with,
that kind of conversation, that kind of banter, that kind
of experience level, that kind of passion for the moment,
and having so many different ideas and the ability to
convey those ideas. That's what I really have always liked
(43:35):
about Murph a lot. Or like he talked. We used
to talk constantly before games on the sidelines by the
batting cage.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
It come by my dugout or dugout, and it.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Was always stuff, just stuff. Let me run this by you,
that kind of a thing, and it's just so straightforward,
and it's nobody's worried about anybody hurting anybody's feelings. It's
just so pure, like pure intentions. And that's that really
comes true. And that's what I really love about, for
lack of better phrase, a real baseball guy that's been
(44:04):
doing it forever. It's in his blood, it's who he is.
And this guy survived the heart attack a couple of
years ago, and he gets his opportunity to become a
major league manager because he's earned it, frankly has earned it.
So anyway, he's all those things and he is a throwback,
but he's also very contemporary, like he talks communicatively. This
(44:26):
guy really is able to draw analogies and create mental pictures.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
I think that's really going to resonate with his young players.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
And that's what I've always enjoyed about my conversations with
him too.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, you know what, while you were saying that, I'm
nodding my head because so many times I'll cover a
Brewers game and I'll find Murph and the dugout or
by the batting cage, and the same thing happens very
easy to talk to. A great communicator knows what he
doesn't know. You know, he doesn't have too much pride
where he doesn't want to ask you questions. He always
wants to learn. And I think that's the key to
(45:00):
remaining relatable and current. So when you have a situation
where you have all these this years of wisdom, again
twenty five years as a college coach, six years managing
the miners, eight years as the bench coach in the
major leagues, when you've had all that wisdom and you
are current and contemporary, man, that is some combination. And
again give Matt Arnold credit for making the higher because
(45:21):
a lot of these younger gms are more comfortable hiring
like minded younger managers, and some get I think personally,
some get either intimidated or just don't find the older
managers relatable to the way they look at baseball.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And I give the.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Brewers credit for hiring a guy who, let's face, I
think he's going to make an impact on this team.
And you look at the way the game is trending, Joe,
the last three teams to win the World Series, look
at the managers. Brian Snicker, Dusty Baker, Bruce Bocci. I
mean the game is coming back here where the game
belongs to the players when it comes to the rules, Younger,
(46:00):
more athletic, more dynamic, faster pace. At the same time,
I think it's coming back in terms of the dugout
to valuing experience as well.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And the type of game that's being enacted during the
course of the game. Really, managers that have done this before,
and I've always said it's really when I ever managed
against a guy that used to manage in the minor leagues,
at some point you have to be on your toes this.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
This guy's not going to miss anything.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
My point is that Murph will if there's an opportunity
to try or do something in a moment, it's not
going to get past them.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
It's not going to be like, oh man, I wish
I had done that, How did I miss that?
Speaker 4 (46:39):
You don't do that because you're always in advance of it,
and he's going to see things and it's it's really
it's good. It is good, and I'm very happy for him.
We've been talking about that. I agree with you. He's
going to bring a real a real source of energy.
You plug into mirth. You absolutely plug into mirth and again,
like he kind of intimated, you have that a little
bit of thick skin here. Now he's going to tell
(47:00):
you what. He's not gonna tell what you want to hear.
He's gonna tell you what he really believes and thinks.
He's a truth teller. And that's the part about him
that I really dig Also.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well said, and speaking him well said, you always close
our episodes with words of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
So what do you have today for us? Joe?
Speaker 4 (47:17):
Well, I knew the guest was going to be right,
and so I was just hanging out here my little
new place down here in Tampa for the next five months,
and I said, okay, So I used the word persistence,
and I went through a couple of different things, and
it really came out about Oh, Ben Franklin had it
way back in the day, energy and persistence conquer all things.
(47:38):
There you go, murph right there. I mean, the guy's
been nothing but a ball of energy. And you cannot
be more persistent than he is, whether it's things that
he knows and feels good about or things that he's
seeking to gain more understanding and knowledge about. So that's
who he is. He's a ball of energy. He's like
the socket in the wall right there. You plug into him,
and I promise you're going to be like that every day.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Energy and persistence.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I love that, and I think if you're a Brewers fan,
that's how you can expect your team to play next
year Undermurph.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
I a great thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
It's been a lot of fun, Joe. Thanks to joining it.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (48:12):
Thank you, brother, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey there, welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the latest episode of the best baseball podcast on
the planet. It's The Book of Joe with me, Tom
Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe. I know
we've talked a lot, you have, specifically in the past
about not wanting anything before your time, that what has
gained should be well earned, and I think that applies
(00:37):
so well to our guest today. It's Pat Murphy, the
manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, and you talk about earning
a place in this game. How about twenty five years
coaching college baseball, six years managing the Miners, eight years
as the bench coach, and now with under Craig Counsel
and now the Brewers manager. Murph, Congratulations on the job,
(01:00):
and by the way, happy birthday selling reading a birthday
this week.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I've got to ask you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know you were an interim manager with the Pasan
Diego Padres, but getting the word that the Brewers were
choosing you giving you the full time job, what does
that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I'm excited, I really am excited if you're part
of this group of people that get an opportunity to
do this. I've got a great group of people around
me and the coaching staff, and it's like it's like
you've been invited to a fight, you know. Mean, there's
some nervousness and there's a little fear, and then you
know what, you go, Okay, you make the decision. Dang,
(01:37):
you hear the bell and let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Sounds familiar, doesn't it, Joe.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
That's a great description, right, Yeah, yeah, I know that's
a great description right there. I mean, anybody that says
they don't have that little bit of trepidation or fears
floating in their body somewhere, they're lying. It's a bit.
It's a big part of all of this. It's a
huge Regardless of how many years you've done it, Murpa
and I did the same thing, you still get to
that pinnacle at that point. And when you get that opportunity,
(02:01):
there's all those there are butterflies, for sure, go to
rest and they'll they'll settle down.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
And I also believe it's important that you have those
feelings because it's going to cause you to create the
opportunity to do your best work too.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
But listen, man, congratulations, I.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Love I love, thank you. I love that you got
this opportunity. I love that a lot of other guys
that have been doing this for a bit have gotten
their opportunities. To this year, it seems to be becoming
more prevalent. So anyway, looking forward to watching you. Man.
We did it for a while different dugouts and Milwaukee
and before and I saw you shoot.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
We did clinics.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We did clinics in Tennessee in the nineteen nineties. That's
my first summer. And then I watched them across the field.
So I couldn't be happy for.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
You, man.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Thank you, Man. I really appreciate I respect you a
great deal. Joe. You know I've come to you many
times in the past for advice and seeking out. I
love the way you did it, and I love the
way you do it. And yeah, the games in our head,
it's about people and it's in our head, and you
exuded that every time you went out there and had
your team's ready, it was it was really a privilege
(03:07):
to be on the same field.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I mean that, Hey, Joe, let me circle back to
something you said there about guys like Murph who we're
getting these opportunities now, and I think the pendulum is
starting to swing back, where the guy in the dugout
now is being hopefully revalued again for paying his dues, experience, wisdom,
whatever you want to call it. I look around at
(03:29):
the openings this offseason. There were seven of those, and
five of the managers hired were fifty three and older.
Craig Council, of course fifty three, Mike Schult fifty five,
A Bob Melvioyn sixty two, Murph at sixty five, and
Run Washington at seventy one. Average age of the seven
managers hired this winter fifty seven. So, Murph, I got
(03:52):
to ask you, the way the game had been trending
when Counts left, did you think you'd have a chance
at this job? And you also have to tell the
story about how you found out that you were the choice.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, I think it's it's just an ebb and flow
of any industry, you know what I mean. You start
thinking that this is the way to go, and then
all of a sudden you start to realize Wow, I mean,
I don't joke and vouch for this. And Tom, you
look like you're thirty three, so I don't really know
how old you are, but you know, it's like you're
way smarter when you're a little bit older, You're way
(04:26):
smarter when you failed. You're way smarter when you've been
kicked in the teeth a few times. And so I
never understood why were we were not going with guys
with a little more wisdom. And it's just one of
those things that I think makes sense in any industry,
you know, but we get we get excited about the
(04:47):
shiny new toy and you know, that type of thing.
But I didn't. I didn't know what was going to happen.
I wasn't. I just stopped worrying about what's going to
happen if I got this shot, I'm going to get
this interview, and I just stopped worrying about it, and
I just trusted and whatever's going to happ happen. Let's
let's keep our priorities what they are. My kids, my job,
(05:08):
you know, my health, that type of thing, and then
let it, let it, let it fall. And once I did,
things fell into place. I didn't try too hard. I
didn't try to impress anybody. Yeah, it was. It was
a beautiful process for me. I'm pleased with it. Getting
the job, I got a phone call from Matt Arnold FaceTime.
I'm like, dude, I don't I don't just FaceTime other dudes,
(05:31):
you know what I mean, Like, I just don't you know, man,
I don't know. I don't know what it is. Maybe
the age that I am. So sure enough I get
a FaceTime, so I feel like I got to pick
it up. I pick it up and it's his eleven
year old son, Tyler, and Tyler's like, hey, Murph, now
you got to know the story. The real story is
that Tyler and I this past year spent some time
(05:54):
in the locker room together, and my job was to
kind of teach him the lingo in the locker room.
Some of it you couldn't bring home to mom. So
that became the funny thing. And I would question him
how many times he used certain words, and I said,
as long as you have your baseball club in your hand,
you can use these words. So it became a joke
(06:16):
between Arnold and I, like, God, Murph, my kids home
saying this and this, but he's got his glove in
his hand. So we kind of connected. And then sure
enough he called and say, Hey, how would you like
to be the manager of the Brewers, and it was
just it was a beautiful moment that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's so cool you got hired by an eleven year old.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I just want to say something too there. I mean
this your your few sentences. It's a couple of minutes
with Murph. Indicator exemplifies exactly who he is. He's an educator.
The guy's an educator. That's the thing I was writing
my notes down before this. So when you get the
the guy through the good collegiate background, especially not even
more so than the minor league background, although you have both,
(07:00):
there's the Murph is an educator. There's a difference when
he just described the way smarter theory about experience of
those little phrases that to me resonates as a young
player and coach coming up through the minor leagues, you're
always able to recognize the guy that was more educational base.
(07:20):
And I'm not slamming or glorifying either side of just
typically what you do and what you've always done, You've educated.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
That's who you are.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
When I did that clinic with you in Tennessee, I'm
sat in the back of the room. This is God,
this is twenty five years ago, whatever it was, and
you're an educator, and I think that's probably what Maddy
recognized with you also, and your ability to connect with
a variety of players in this situation, a variety.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Of different ages.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Because you're an educator, you have your ability to get
your point across, just like you did to Maddie's son,
or what you've done by describing the way smarter, just
by having some experience. So that's the part I'm really
excited about for you, and for the industry and for
your group is sometimes that's missing. You have abilities to
(08:07):
tie things together that a lot of us don't.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
And I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I mean that's when we used to talk you always
i'd listen obviously, and God, this guy really he does.
He puts sentences together really well, he puts thoughts together
really well, and a lot of it's based first being
very bright and second of all having all these different
in this sense baseball experiences too. So anyway, I just
wanted to say that because that was something that I
written down before, because there's a there's a lot to
(08:34):
be said for that, and I don't think again, that's
another part of the evaluation process that I don't think
we think about her talk about enough as you're hiring people.
He's got a great professional background, but it's really the
foundation is a great collegiate background, which created the teacher
that he is.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
What's interesting about you saying that? I want to you
guys ask the questions, But what's interesting about you talking
like that? First of all, I gotta be honest. I've
never considered myself bright. I'd love to be, but it's
just as it worked out that way. I always like
to look at Perducci and I'm like, that guy's smart,
you know what I mean, And be quite frankly, Joe,
(09:13):
I'd look at you and I'd be like, God, that's wisdom,
you know. And I envied you when I was in
college and I watched the stuff you're doing with the
angels and all that kind of stuff, way back when
before you were the Cubs manager, before your Tampa Bay manager.
You know, like I envied that. And again, and this
is not just a hugfest here, but you know, I
(09:33):
think about I think about the most important thing we
can do in life, and that is to impact somebody
else somehow, might not even be a pleasant one, but
to impact someone else. You've done that for me, Joe,
and how you've how you've run your clubs, and how
you've set an example out there. But I think those
are the things that what else do we What else
(09:55):
do we have? Coaches are like offensive linemen. We open holes.
Hopefully the guys run through it. They score, they spike
the ball, they get the attack. We open hosts. Can
you measure what we do?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, right, can't measure And I think that's that's the
beauty of our what we do. That's why you have
to stay humble about it. You can never measure the
impact you're having. You know, did you make Rizzo a
better ball player? I believe yes, But can you really
measure it?
Speaker 5 (10:26):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And that's what this whole thing is about.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Hey murf get if you can. What are the similarities difference?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Hey Murph, shut up, shut up so you can I
get it?
Speaker 5 (10:36):
I get.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I mean you got me thinking now about the differences
or similarities between say, coaching a college kid eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old and a major league player who's you know,
got a family, maybe he's got one hundred million dollar contract.
I'm sure there's probably more similarities than differences. But what
(10:57):
are the challenge with the major league guys in terms
of reaching them and motivating them the way you did
say with college players.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, totally different, totally different because it's a new era.
And like you said, now you're dealing with a grown
man who doesn't need to listen to me. So you
got to build a connection with a first, a trust.
I just got off the phone with one of our
young players, who I love. I mean, I love this kid.
He didn't have the best of overall years, but you
(11:26):
know what, I love the kid. I love his spirit,
I love what he's about. I know he can play
the game. I believe in him, and I think I
think he senses that. Now is he mature enough to
go Okay, Now I'm going to listen to this guy,
and now I'm not going to listen to all the
noise around me. But it's totally different, you know, Like
the younger players are a little easier obviously, the old veterans,
(11:48):
you know, it's more of a challenge. And I've been
standing here for eight years watching it, trying to relate,
always having done a good job. Then you got to
relate to guys from Latin America, from a totally different culture,
and you can't can't fool them, you can't be ask them. So, yeah,
what an education? What a process? You know, we're trying
(12:11):
to figure it out. I'm sitting here in a little
dungeon here, and I'm in the stadium, and I'm trying
to figure out, how do I get to this guy?
You know what I mean? How do I how do
I get to Wilson Contrares? You know, like, all right,
it's William I guess on our team.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
The other one?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, how do how do I really impact this guy?
How do how do I help them? Do I just
stay away from? How do how do I do this?
I mean, it's so it's a it's a constant because
the other the baseball stuff that is joke and tell
you way better than me. I mean, like the baseball
stuff is the baseball stuff, you know what I mean.
And we've got experts now breaking it down from all
(12:49):
different angles. But the head is the head, and there
ain't you know, there ain't nothing more important than what's
going on between the roars.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Well you just describe it too, I mean you just
described it regarding the connection with the players and how
to get across with that. That is the years of
experience that you've had. I mean, I'm big on Blink,
the book by Malcolm Gladwell about intuitive thinking and what
you've done for the last forty years, whatever it's been.
You've put all this stuff in that cauldron, all these
(13:17):
different players that you have met, all the different situations
you've been in. Even the fact that you're a recruiter,
I mean a lot. You know, we've never had a
recruit on a professional level. You had to walk in
the houses and you had to talk to parents, and
you had it. You saw from so many different angles.
You're the scouting department, you're you're the GM, you're the
director of scotting, you're the charge of player development, You're
all those things, and so you have all these different
(13:39):
conversations that you've accumulated over the years.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
I'm not even thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
So when you just described there, it's that nanosecond, It's
that moment that whatever is required of that moment, whether
you're talking about Contrarass and how to approach him or
this fellow you just described that you really like that,
you love his spirit, but it hasn't worked out yet.
But it's crazy because of the experiences that you've had,
these thoughts come rushing to your head and you have
(14:06):
to actually stole them down and control them and compartmentalize them,
because there's going to be so many thoughts coming to you,
and you're gonna compare them to this guide to the
people that you've met in the past, players you've met
in the past, and how those conversations worked out. So again,
I guess what I'm really emphasized, here's the experience component
and the fact that you've had all these different baseball
(14:28):
moments that yeah, this is really beneficial to an organization
when you then have these conversations with these players because
you have so much to draw on.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but when
we get back, Joe, you're gonna love this. We're going
to take a trip back to the Northwest League in
the nineteen eighties because I love diving into origin stories
in the background of Pat Murphy. I'm sure we're gonna
get some amazing stories from back in the day as
a minor league player and manager. Back right after this, be.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Ready, be ready, all.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Right, merkh I gave the tea's about the Northwest League.
Now you signed with the Giants and you wound up
playing your first year for Salem with the Padres. How'd
you go for the Giants to the Padres. Let's start
with that.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I walked out on the Giants after like three weeks there.
I was I caught my junior year in college. My
senior year, I pitched and DHD at FAU. Then I
signed with IT. I gave me a free agent contract,
signed with the Giants. I had a shoulder. I had
a shoulder problem. Anyways, I went to Great Falls. I
(15:47):
was there like ten days whatever. We're getting ready to
break camp and I get the coaching offer from Maryville
College Division III football baseball. They called me in the
last minute and said, look now the baseball job's open.
You can be the head baseball coach, the assistant football coach.
Do you want it? And my shoulder was barking. I
(16:10):
threw the ball. Okay, they were going to send me.
I was going to play in Great Falls for that
short season. And so I went to him and I said, hey,
I'm going to take this job. I'm going to be done.
They're like, well, you got to voluntarily retire. I'm like,
I'm not going to voluntarily retire. Whatever. They made me
sign these papers and I left. I left Great Falls
to be the head baseball coach assistant football at Maryville.
(16:33):
So I went and did that. Well. After that first
season football and baseball, I got the itch. I'm like,
I can still pitch. My shoulder had calmed down. I
went out and threw a bullpen for a guy named
Dick Egan, who Joe knows, and he claims I threw
it in his front yard, but I pessed. I pestered
him pretty good. I threw at the University of Tennessee.
I struck out Alan Cockrow and you know, Ellen Cockle,
(16:55):
they're getting ready to go to the regional. They're getting
ready to go to the regional, and he got this
crazy kid. Dick Egan said, I did it in jeans,
but I didn't have jeans on. Anyways. You know, I'm
throwing live to try to earn a job, and Cockle's
trying to go to the regional and they tell him
to have these at bats against this crazy guy. Anyway,
I punch him out. He's looking at me like, bro,
(17:16):
this is supposed to be live VP, not you breaking
off sliders. Anyways, Egan signs me. He goes, look, you
got to show up tomorrow. In Salem, Virginia, and there
was a Padres team and I'm like, what, I haven't
thrown to a live hit or except.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I got to stop you there. Northwest League, by the way,
you just missed Joe. He'd been there the previous couple
of seasons. I think, Joe, you're off to Midland, Texas
at that point, right, but you're playing for the Dry
Cities in the Northwest League eighty five. Now that's an
independent team. They had been a Texas affiliate. They lost
their affiliation.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You're playing games at a place called the Bomber Bowl,
home of the Richland High School baseball team.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
That's where you're playing.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yep, you're drawing eight hundred and seventy six people a
game packed. I don't know if you know the story
of a guy on the team named Ken Cosky. This
is a guy who pitched a small college in California.
Draft He thought that bonuses were way too small, so
he's like, forget it, I'm not playing pro ball. He
goes into real estate in San Diego, marries a couple
(18:17):
of kids. Twelve years later, he decides I'm going to
try out for the Tri Cities team.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
He makes the team makes the team. That's what kind
of team we're talking about here, folks.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So, and he was called, by the way, the unnatural
Kenkowski was So, I mean, how did you wind up
actually managing the team as well?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Bobby Brett owned the team. Ken's Kenny and George. He
was pretty good. Kenny and George and Bobby and John Brett. Yeah,
they owned that team. And I was there the year
before and pitched for him and had to leave early
because I was coaching football in a new school in California,
(19:01):
Claremont College. So I became the same position assistant football
had baseball at Claremont. But they call me and say, hey,
you want to come back and be the manager. I said, sure,
you know, I'll do it. Bobby and so they may
be the manager. But they said we're going to be
a co op team. No independent players, were just going
(19:24):
to be co op. Oh. I was disappointed because I
know co op meant they're just other teams are just
going to lend you players. We opened the season. This
is a great story and this is true, and you
can do the research on the numbers. We opened the
season against Spokane, one game at home and one game
on the road. We had fourteen players. We had nine
(19:44):
position players in five pitchers. Well, that wasn't going to
do it. So in the first the second game of
the season at Spokane, second game of the season, we're down
nine to nothing in the ninth inning. Rob peach Low's
the opposing manager. God rest his soul and we're down
(20:05):
nine to nothing. Bruce Keyson's my pitching coach. He leaves
in the eighth inning. He's so disgusted that we only
have fourteen players, and he committed to doing this. Bruce Keson,
the great Pittsburgh Pirate. God rest his soul. Anyway, he
leaves in the eighth inning, says Murph Paint doing this.
Randy Smith, who later became the player development guy in
(20:27):
San Diego, was doing the radio. I put myself in
the pitch in turf shoes because we didn't have any
other players and I didn't want to use my rotation
for the rest of the week, so I put myself
in the pitch in the eighth inning. Ended up pitching
four and a third or foreign four and two thirds,
something like that. You got to check the box score.
(20:48):
Four and two thirds. We tie the game with two
outs in the ninth. We score nine in the ninth
to tie the game. We win the game eleven to
nine and that's true, and eleven innings or something like that,
and I ended up pitching four innings. That was my
first manager will win.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Wow, book it the tri City Triplets. They go twenty
six and forty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's a record.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Steph Era was five point.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Five ninep the trout.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
This is really your first I know you coached in college, Murph,
but it's really your first managing gig. I mean it's
you got tested that year, There's no question about it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Did you know at that point that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You were in the right spot being a manager in
professional baseball?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah? I mean I've been a head coach for two
years in college, and you know I knew that this
is the direction. No, No, I gotta be honest. Many
people said you need to stick with football, that football
is your deal. You can you have a demeanor and
you're the way you go about it. And I didn't
know jack shit about coaching. I gotta be honest. I
(21:54):
didn't know anything. You know, I'm a young kid. I'm
just banging around and just trying to do whatever. And
I hear this thing called coaching. You're like, yeah, I'm
supposed to tell everybody what to do, but I kind
of did it like a football coach. Then I get
the job at Notre Dame. They were like a club program,
you know, no scholarships, all that kind of stuff. And
(22:15):
in my heart and soul, I love Notre Dame so much.
I was so blessed to be there. It's a part
time job, but I didn't care. I just I wanted
a coach. Now. Was I inappropriate? Was I too much?
Was I like a football coach? Absolutely? But my heart
and what I really wanted was Notre Dame baseball to
be great, not Pat Murphy to be great, Notre Dame
(22:37):
baseball to be great. And that was just so congruent
that we ended up winning big and Notre Dame baseball
became kind of a national power here without scholarships. It's
kind of a cool story. And I did it with
great people, just great people, and I believed me to.
I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I
was just drive and drive and drive and drive. But
(23:00):
my real intent was to help Notre Dame baseball be great.
And by the time that I decided to leave Notre
Dame Baseball had been in three final sixteens in a
row without full compliment scholarships, with just great people dealing
with a psychotic coach who just wanted just couldn't get
(23:21):
off of them. I just I wouldn't. I wouldn't take
my foot off their neck. One of them was Craig Counsel.
I thought he'd never speak to me again. I was
so tough on him, but it worked, and then I
started to learn a little bit about coaching once I
got the ASU and you're in that six pack, and
you got Mark Marcus and Mike Gillspie And I don't
(23:41):
know why nobody likes me. You know, I'm a jerk
to opposing coaches. I can't I can't understand it. But
I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have My college coach,
Steve Traylor was wonderful, still my great friend today, and
he encouraged me to go into coaching. But I didn't
really know how to do this thing. Man, I just
(24:02):
had no idea. I was a bull in a China closet,
to say the least. But I was winning games. And
I go out and talk, and my number one talk
these days is be careful coaches. If you're winning games,
don't think you're a good coach, because it doesn't indicate
you're a good coach, especially on that level.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well, I love hearing that story. First of all, it's fascinating.
As you mentioned, he really didn't have mentors. You kind
of were learning on your own how to do the job.
I think that is very unusual. But we talk a
lot in this podcast, Murph about pure intentions and when
you go after something with pure intentions, not as self
driven agenda or an underlying it's rewarding when good things happen.
(24:43):
It sounds like that's exactly how you went about coaching
and managing. Was not to promote yourself, to start climbing
the ladder, if you will, but in this case, make
Notre Dame great.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It really was. It was as pure as it could be.
I was making seven thousand dollars a year seven that's
nineteen eighty eight. I'm making seven thousand a year, and
I could care less. The guy came into me and
he brought me my first paycheck, Brian Bullock. He brought
me my first paycheck, and I you know, multiplied. I
figure I get paid every two weeks. I've multiplied it
(25:15):
by twenty four. No, no, no, no, that's by seven.
And I'm like, what, he goes, Yeah, it's all it's
all we have. That's a stipend for the head coach.
No assistant coach money, no recruiting money. Just got in
my car and drove and the guys know it. I mean,
I got great friends in the game that know that
(25:35):
I just drove my car. And I didn't know what
I was looking at either, but I was NonStop. The
woman of my life, Michelle is now that she's from Hawaii,
she never never had been the Notre Dame. She's still
there as a tenured professor. Wow, and we're still great friends.
(25:55):
She's still there. She got it. She decided to get
her PhD in biology and genetics, and she's still there
as a tenured professor. And god, what a story. She
had never even she heard a Notre Dame. But she
was a student at the Claremont Colleges at the time.
And I met her when she was a graduate assistant
in volleyball, and we were together seven years. And she
(26:19):
she laughs about it now, telling me like, you know,
you were just so committed, you motiv motivated me. That
I started thinking, like, I need to be like this.
What she didn't know is I had no idea what
I was doing. I was just I was just seven
am to midnight every night, just worrying about making Notre
Dame baseball great. But you know, the ego, the ego
(26:39):
starts to get in there when you start winning a
bunch of games. And we won right away, and and
of course it wasn't that hard to do that, but
because of you know, Midwestern baseball at the time was
not that good and I had great kids. I had
the right kids, and Uh, anyways, your ego starts trickling
in there a little bit. And then by the time
(27:01):
I got the ASU, it was a lot about myself
that held us back. We did become, you know, a
great national program and back to the World Series a
number of times, but it was still a little bit
too much about me. So, yeah, you learn those lessons
and ebbs and flows, and it's just it's as Joe
can tell you, it's constant. Uh. This profession is so wonderful,
(27:25):
it's so incredible that you know, it teaches you everything
you need. And I just I'm so passionate about young
coaches about them, you know, getting it right because they're
so It's such an important position, especially in high school
and college, it's so important.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
That's a great recap, honestly of pretty much everything, I mean,
your everybody's feeling in the passion that Merph Scott for
this situation, for this game, all the different stops, all
the different lessons, and the fact that you know when
without the mentors, I mean, that's the thing that uh,
I really see it is being important and valuable today
(28:06):
in today's game. I'd like to see more of that.
I like to see more mentors within the minor league,
not necessarily for players, but I like to see more
mentors for coaches. I don't think that we're hiring enough
former major league or professional caliber coaches players and go
back to the minor leagues and pass the game along
to the next group and next generation of coaches. I'm
(28:28):
still concerned that it's too much data driven regarding what
we're teaching and how we're teaching it. And I'd really
like to see some very strong.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Good base It's change, that's it's got to change, you know,
because we know the next phase in this game is psychology,
right Like, we don't really know, like I don't know
about your specific cases and your teams, but the sports
psychologists it's a very tough spot to put him on
a major league bench and help him. So we got
to educate. In my opinion, we've got to educate coaches
(28:59):
on how to become that psychologists themselves and how to
how to help young people. I'm not talking about serious
mental issues where you can go to your employee assistance guy,
I get it. I'm talking about the psychology of sport
and just how you're going to handle yourself day to day.
(29:19):
I think we need to educate coaches so we can
do that. Then the data can help us. It does
help us. I mean the data helps us, there's no
doubt about it. But it still comes down to people.
This game is played by people. It will always be
played by people in that person's mental state, including the
manager and coaches. Those mental states are vital and if
(29:41):
we can keep them at a great level, we've got it.
And I think that's the next wave. Even though it
can't be measured, I think the emphasis has got to
be there.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's a great point where if I think what
you're talking about, and we've talked about a lot here
on the podcast is teaching and what coaching means. It
doesn't mean just passing along data. We all love the
data and we know how useful it is, but there's
another skill associated with it, and that's the delivery of it.
And it sounds like you see yourself as an educator
(30:11):
more so than as a quote unquote major League baseball manager.
And my guess is that's that's not going to change
now that you are a manager of the Milwaukee Brewers.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Mer Scott one year, Scott one year man, things are
things aren't changing.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
This is who he is.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
This is a perfect read indicator of who this man is.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
This is not going to change.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
This is exactly what it's going to look like that
first day at spring training in the Milwaukee Top House
and Maryvale this year, it's going to be exactly the same.
This is who he is and that's wonderful and the
game means more of that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Thanks, Joe, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, Well, tell me about your team, Murph.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
The Brewers are in kind of a kind of strange
spot here with no Brandon Woodruff. You've got Corbyn Burns
and Willia Domas entering their last year in a contract
with Milwaukee, get some good young players coming up in
the minor league system. What excites you about this group
in twenty twenty four and I and listen, I know
we still have the off season in front of us.
(31:09):
Things can change, But as we sit here today, what
do you like?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I mean, the young energy is just it's it's incredible, man,
It's uh, yeah, I love the I just love it.
I love the young energy. You know, Like these guys
are willing. I think they can be uh it can
be guided a little bit. They're at that good phase.
They're at that good phase of their career. They're hungry,
(31:32):
they're willing to do whatever. We've got some kids with
aptitude that that that they're exciting, you know. And yeah,
and we got the good veterans. I mean Yelich. If
you spend time with Yelich, you just you love this guy.
I mean he's humble, beyond belief, and he's a baseball player.
(31:53):
You know, when you start you start realizing what this
guy's accomplished in the game, and how long he's played
in the major leagues and how long he's done it
at a pretty consistent level. His bad years are decent years.
You know, like he's just really really consistent, and he
doesn't in a way that doesn't really light up the
analytics because he doesn't hit a lot of fly balls.
(32:15):
You know, he hits line drives and ground balls. He
hits the ball the other way. He runs the bases,
but hey, snuck in there that forty home run here,
another thirty plus home run here or whatever, and you
know you start to think, wow, he can do that
every year. But now he's he's a great veteran to have,
and you know we've got losing Woody Joe. You've got
(32:39):
a guy in your career that you can look at
and go, this was a dude, man. I mean he
and he was humble and still hungry, and it was
all about the right stuff. He's all about the right
stuff and he was just getting better. So to lose
him to injury, I still got this twinge of hope
(32:59):
that somehow we sign him even though he can't pitch
this year, because he's so influential in our locker room.
It doesn't try to be, but he's just it's who
he is, big wolf.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's beautiful, sounds like Johnny Lester Joe.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah, I mean there's there's those guys we've all had him.
There's and again you're talking about immeasurables. Just his personality,
is his just being his presence within the group, the
difference that makes within that group.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
That's the kind of stuff that I really I have
paid a lot.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Of attention to and I know you have also, And
these are the kind of things that again, try to
measure this up, and it's hard.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
How do you how to exactly measure that. We'll put like,
we'll say he's.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Got eighty makeup, but how do you break that down?
And is everybody going to listen to you? It's so
important to have those guys within the group. Beyond the
actual of course you have to have town. Of course
you have physical talent, you have to have good players, yes,
but once you get all that stuff lined up, I
like David Ross being my backup catcher in twenty sixteen.
As an example, Johnny Lester when he came over that
(34:02):
was that's still one of the best free agents signs
of the last I don't know, fifteen to twenty years
doesn't get enough press or talked about often enough. Johnny
Lester was that much of a difference maker. You want
Johnny Lester in a big game. So these are the
kind of things and guys that when I was with
the Rays in two thousand and eight, we got over
the hump because we had good players.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
We got Andrew made some nice trades.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
But then here came Cliff Floyd, Troy Percival, and Rik
Kinsky all at once, and they just totally turned our
clubhouse around. She had a bunch of nice young players,
but without those three guys, even in limited roles, could
not have done it.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Could not have done it.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
So those are the kind of things to me that
I think needs to be to pay more attention to.
I mean, talent's always gonna be the writing factor, no question,
but you have to have the glue guys to bring
it all together to.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Make it work.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's interesting. It's a good day for me to hear
that I'm going into a meeting at three thirty with
our front office. And yeah, a good day to hear that,
because that's that's really what we're sitting on that you know,
we're sitting on that interesting side note, Joe, I got
to tell you this where our lives are connected. We
had a issue signed John Lester to come and play
(35:14):
for us as a two way guy right Seattle. Yeah,
two way. I mean he could. I thought he could
swing the bat. I know he had a rough start, but.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
That's two of the because I love this swing.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I said, tell him, I told you, but Johnny's going
to hit and he had an Opra one thousand. I said, no, no,
this guy's got a good swing. Then all of a sudden,
he starts popping balls in the left central Did you
ever see him hit a golf balls out of sight?
That's sorry, I didn't mean to rept you, but I'm
I'm on the same bad way with I've always thought
Johnny lester and he was one of He was possibly
(35:47):
the best bunner I had on that team in Chicago.
He was the best bunner.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So we I flew my assistant to Seattle to see
him play flight delay. One thing leads to another. Traffic
in Seattle didn't realize it, or traffic wherever, trying to
think of the town he was from, and they was.
He then got there. He said, I saw one at
bat and I saw one inning pitching. I said, what
(36:12):
do you think? He goes, I think it's real, And
everybody around here says it's real. Whatever. He came for
a visit, we signed him to scholarship. They issue and
the Boston took him in this as their first pick,
but it was a second round pick.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
And yeah, I've always kidded him after that, like Leicster,
I know, you can hit man. And then we couldn't
beat him when he was in Chicago against us. You know,
he had the trouble picking off and had the trouble
throwing the bases and all that, and we had all
these plans and the guy would just end us beat
He just beat us. He put aside that and he
just throw that cutter you know, back door cutter down
(36:51):
and in cutter up and in cutter. I mean, he
just he dominated us. He's metal monster. I loved it.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We got by that by just telling him, don't worry
about the runner. Do the things that you do do well,
you step off, because step off right, you could, you
could quick step and you could pitch out through.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Those three things.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
And don't worry about the runner, and that he was
one one two to play the.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Right exactly what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
And then the runners, we get such large leaves, they
felt they're they're in an area that they felt so
uncomfortable with it that they could not and then you
have Contreras picking on the backside. Nobody even gave Wilson
enough credit for the back pick right there that really
really tethered runners the first base. I know we're going
up in the diet Troy by here, but I'm a
Johnny Lester guy, big time.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Hey, Murph, Two more quick questions for you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Number one, I got to know what number you're wearing
as manager of the brewers, because this was a couple
of years ago. You had number fifty nine and you
gave it up for John Axford when he came along,
and for some reason you took number double zero, right,
So are you keeping that?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Or they gave me double zero? I didn't. I didn't.
I didn't. It fits Milki Shaugar our clubhouse manager or whatever.
He's vice president or something now. But I give them
a hard time. Hokie gave me zero zero And then
I they said me, manager, what number do you want
to wear? And I said, I started at Notre Dame,
(38:13):
same situation. I started with twenty one Berto Clementi, and
I said, it's twenty one available. It seems like too
good of a number for a manager, you know, like,
you know, I don't want to take away a player's
number that you know, it's pretty nice number twenty one.
So I showed up for the press conference and they
had number.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Twenty one, So yeah, it is very cool.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Half of forty two awesome. I wore forty two at
a issue and twenty one day, well done.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I love that story. I love the when there's a
meeting behind those numbers.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
And finally, I can't wait for how many times thirteen
times is going to happen when you manage this year
against the Chicago Cubs and you look across that diamond
and there's Craig Council trying to outwit you.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
What is that going to be?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Like, I won't pee hard. I mean counts counts. A
thirty seven year relationship counts and I and it's taken
on so many forms. As a seventeen year old in
Milwaukee County Stadium working out while I was eating dinner
with sal Bando, hitting on the field with Salbando Junior,
and I'm watching from the suite to player at Notre
(39:26):
Dame two friend going through the minor leagues to living
together in Arizona when he played for the Diamondbacks, meeting Michelle,
his wife, who's definitely his better ass, you know, just
knowing all his kids, and then becoming his bench coach,
you know, watching him his first first first try it coaching,
(39:51):
you know, and watching him and really just learned. I
mean I learned a great deal. And people called me
his mentor believe me, believe me. I learned so much
from him and watching him do it. He taught me
the major league game. Yeah, it's how's it gonna be?
I don't know, I don't think about it.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Gonna be weird, It'll be weird, that's right.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, for you, Joe, when you were going up against
say Mike's Soosha, do you get the job with Tampa?
Speaker 5 (40:17):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Yeah, I mean it is I think, you know, there's
a little bit higher level of mental acuity at that point.
Just being honest, you just go into it that way.
I think maybe after the first couple of meetings it'll
relax a little bit. But the first couple of meetings
in even like going back Downheim Stadium for the first
time when I went to the Raids was like, wow,
I got I got kicked out of the first three
(40:40):
games that I managed at Anaheim, I think something like
that play at first base, a couple of arguments with
the umpire close play if we were terrible, I mean
I was a devil Ray we were awful, but I
got kicked out I think three games, and then eventually
things settle in and then you start kicking their butt.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
So that's just how it works. But it's called.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Being a human being. You just can't help it. And
like you said, just gonna go do it. You're gonna
go do it. You're going to tell yourself to be chill,
do this whatever, read deeply. But when the game begins
or as you see the cubs on that side and
there were standing there, it's just natural and you'll get
over it.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
You'll get over it.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
It's just it's not about me, you know what I mean.
Like that's what I'm thinking about, Like it ain't it
ain't counts versus me and the type of thing. It's
just that you know, I have my heart attack counts
as at my bedside for like four hours. I had
to kick him out of the kick him out of
the rooms. It counts. Get out of here, man, let's go.
You got better things to do. I mean, I'm fine
(41:37):
and uh, I mean he's a beautiful man. Uh. We'll
be friends for life. This this little you know, how
many years we go against each other ain't kind of matter.
And we might get pissed at each other, so what
I was pissed at him half the year every year,
So it doesn't matter. You know, we'll we'll always come through.
We He means a lot to me, his family means
(41:58):
a lot to me. And but this is this is
what we do, and we'll compete each other against each
other like crazy fun.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Can't wait for it, Murph. This has been a pleasure, man,
my pleasure. From Tri City Triplets to the Milwaukee Brewers.
It's been quite a journey, and it's the good part
is only just beginning now.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I'm sure it just keeps getting better.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thanks so much for your time and best of luck
in twenty twenty four and beyond.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Thank you, thank you. I love you to both man,
it's really really cool getting to know you guys.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Murph to you and your family
there too, all right, buddy, thank you to you.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Alsome all right, Joe, this has been a great visit
with Murph, and we're gonna wrap it up with some
closing thoughts right.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
After this.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe. That
was as fun as I thought it would be. Murpha
is just a true gem in this game. And the
Milwaukee Brewers, I give them a lot of credit for
giving him the job. A guy who obviously has been
there under credit council for eight years knows the system,
knows the player easy transition to make. But in this
(43:08):
day and age, I give them credit for stepping up
and hiring the right guy.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I mean, it's just by listening to this entire podcast
do you find out who he is? And who he
is is pretty much the guys that I grew up with,
that kind of conversation, that kind of banter, that kind
of experience level, that kind of passion for the moment,
and having so many different ideas and the ability to
convey those ideas. That's what I really have always liked
(43:35):
about Murph a lot. Or like he talked. We used
to talk constantly before games on the sidelines by the
batting cage.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
It come by my dugout or dugout, and it.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Was always stuff, just stuff. Let me run this by you,
that kind of a thing, and it's just so straightforward,
and it's nobody's worried about anybody hurting anybody's feelings. It's
just so pure, like pure intentions. And that's that really
comes true. And that's what I really love about, for
lack of better phrase, a real baseball guy that's been
(44:04):
doing it forever. It's in his blood, it's who he is.
And this guy survived the heart attack a couple of
years ago, and he gets his opportunity to become a
major league manager because he's earned it, frankly has earned it.
So anyway, he's all those things and he is a throwback,
but he's also very contemporary, like he talks communicatively. This
(44:26):
guy really is able to draw analogies and create mental pictures.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
I think that's really going to resonate with his young players.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
And that's what I've always enjoyed about my conversations with
him too.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, you know what, while you were saying that, I'm
nodding my head because so many times I'll cover a
Brewers game and I'll find Murph and the dugout or
by the batting cage, and the same thing happens very
easy to talk to. A great communicator knows what he
doesn't know. You know, he doesn't have too much pride
where he doesn't want to ask you questions. He always
wants to learn. And I think that's the key to
(45:00):
remaining relatable and current. So when you have a situation
where you have all these this years of wisdom, again
twenty five years as a college coach, six years managing
the miners, eight years as the bench coach in the
major leagues, when you've had all that wisdom and you
are current and contemporary, man, that is some combination. And
again give Matt Arnold credit for making the higher because
(45:21):
a lot of these younger gms are more comfortable hiring
like minded younger managers, and some get I think personally,
some get either intimidated or just don't find the older
managers relatable to the way they look at baseball.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And I give the.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Brewers credit for hiring a guy who, let's face, I
think he's going to make an impact on this team.
And you look at the way the game is trending, Joe,
the last three teams to win the World Series, look
at the managers. Brian Snicker, Dusty Baker, Bruce Bocci. I
mean the game is coming back here where the game
belongs to the players when it comes to the rules, Younger,
(46:00):
more athletic, more dynamic, faster pace. At the same time,
I think it's coming back in terms of the dugout
to valuing experience as well.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And the type of game that's being enacted during the
course of the game. Really, managers that have done this before,
and I've always said it's really when I ever managed
against a guy that used to manage in the minor leagues,
at some point you have to be on your toes this.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
This guy's not going to miss anything.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
My point is that Murph will if there's an opportunity
to try or do something in a moment, it's not
going to get past them.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
It's not going to be like, oh man, I wish
I had done that, How did I miss that?
Speaker 4 (46:39):
You don't do that because you're always in advance of it,
and he's going to see things and it's it's really
it's good. It is good, and I'm very happy for him.
We've been talking about that. I agree with you. He's
going to bring a real a real source of energy.
You plug into mirth. You absolutely plug into mirth and again,
like he kind of intimated, you have that a little
bit of thick skin here. Now he's going to tell
(47:00):
you what. He's not gonna tell what you want to hear.
He's gonna tell you what he really believes and thinks.
He's a truth teller. And that's the part about him
that I really dig Also.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well said, and speaking him well said, you always close
our episodes with words of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
So what do you have today for us? Joe?
Speaker 4 (47:17):
Well, I knew the guest was going to be right,
and so I was just hanging out here my little
new place down here in Tampa for the next five months,
and I said, okay, So I used the word persistence,
and I went through a couple of different things, and
it really came out about Oh, Ben Franklin had it
way back in the day, energy and persistence conquer all things.
(47:38):
There you go, murph right there. I mean, the guy's
been nothing but a ball of energy. And you cannot
be more persistent than he is, whether it's things that
he knows and feels good about or things that he's
seeking to gain more understanding and knowledge about. So that's
who he is. He's a ball of energy. He's like
the socket in the wall right there. You plug into him,
and I promise you're going to be like that every day.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Energy and persistence.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I love that, and I think if you're a Brewers fan,
that's how you can expect your team to play next
year Undermurph.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
I a great thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
It's been a lot of fun, Joe. Thanks to joining it.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (48:12):
Thank you, brother, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
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