January 26, 2023 • 36 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon welcoming Hillsboro Hops Manager Ronnie Gajownik to the show. Ronnie reveals the moment when she was made the first female manager of a Class High-A baseball team. Ronnie discusses the progress the sport is seeing and the possibility of having a female manager in the Major League within ten years. Ronnie grew up as a Cubs fan and talks about the steps that led her to this opportunity. Joe explores Ronnie's approach to handling her team and how she's preparing for Spring Training. Tom asks about the mentors and role models that inspired Ronnie to end up where she is. We wrap up with a 'Reading from The Book of Joe' with Ronnie picking page 34, since she grew up as a fan of Kerry Wood.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
#fsr
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome to another episode of the
Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and my
good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, I want to take you
down memory lane today. I hope that's okay with you,
(00:27):
because I'm gonna bring you back to two Young Joe
Madden is second year managing in the minor leagues. He's
twenty nine years old, and it gets a gig in
the Northwest League with the Salem Angels. Why am I
bringing that up? Well, today we have a special guest.
We have the manager of the Hillsboro Hops in the
(00:51):
Northwest League. And by the way, it's only about fifty
miles now, I five from Salem, the connection to Oregon
in the Northwest League all these years apart, and it's
a little bit different now because the manager now is
Ronnie Gagownik, and Ronnie, thanks so much for joining us.
Of course, I was told that your real name is Veronica,
(01:14):
but I guess only your mom used that what you
need to do the dishes? Is that true? Yeah? You
know what. Growing up, I used to go bowling a lot,
and Ronica didn't fit on there, and she goes, hey,
why don't we go ahead and use Ronnie? And you
know what, it's stuck ever since. But yeah, she only
calls me that whenever she is yelling at me to
do the dishes, whenever I go back home. So I
cringe a little bit every single time. You know, I
(01:34):
hear Ronicka. So if I did that a little bit,
that's why. So how do you say good John? It's
g jow Polish. It is Polish you and my My
real last name is actually die ovniqu g a j
o w z c k um, but my great grandfather
changed it when I came over to americanize it. I
(01:56):
don't know how American gagownick is, but you know what's
better than a gun? I guess. Well, the similarities continue
because I am half Polish. Also my mom's side of
the family's clothes sec. And so when I saw that,
I figured as much. I didn't I didn't put together
Veronica with Ronnie, but I think that's pretty cool too.
And then furthermore, to be situated in Oregon Um that
(02:17):
year in two we did win the Northwest League title.
I had some big leaguers on that team, Mark McLamore
being one of the most prominent. Kurt McCaskill was another one,
or Bonalugo. I had a great time up there. It's
the weather's you would think in the Northwest people always complain,
but it's actually pretty good in the summertime. But if
you have allergies in that neck of the woods, summer
(02:37):
allergies are pretty nasty. I I thought it was developing
asthma up there, but nevertheless, it's a great spot to
begin your career. Again, there are so many similarities. I'm
very very happy for you. See now, if you like parogus,
then we're definitely kindred spirits. I make podogi, I make
cold up gay. I got all that stuff in my back. Actually,
(02:59):
our restaurant in Chicago was the Maddness Post. We were
a fusion between iron and Polish food. We had to
shut her down. They we were making split pe pudogi,
and I promise you the best everon Do you ever
have Mrs t s petogi? No, I actually have not. Okay, Well,
that's made in Shenando, which is right down the street
from my hometown. Through everywhere. Check it out, Mrs ts
(03:20):
check it out. I have had those jos, I can
vouch for very good. I can't very good post games
spread at the Hillsboro Hops game paro, right, players will
just absolutely to kill the postgame spread. Well, Ronnie, let
me really congratulations um getting obviously this historic job managing
the first time a female will be managing a High
(03:42):
A team. So congratulations, well deserved. Um. You have to
take me back. We'll get into your background, of course,
but you have to take me back to the phone
call or maybe it was done in person when you
first found out that this was going to be your
assignment for to be a High A manager. Yeah, so
it happened. I believe it was in October that Josh
called me. I was actually out here in Arizona work
(04:03):
in the folly with the Salt River Rafters, and you know,
just a normal day cleaning my blinds in my apartment.
All of a sudden I get a you know, call
from Josh Barfield and I think, ano, jeez, what's gonna happen?
And I wasn't expecting a call and picked it up,
and you know, a little bit of small talk, how's
it going, you know, just cleaning my blind just a
normal day, and he goes all right, Well, we want
(04:23):
to go ahead and talk to you about next season.
I'm like, okay, sounds good. He's like, so we'd like
you to be in Hillsboro. Oh, wait, hold on a second,
I'm getting another call. So I'm patiently waiting there for
what feels like five minutes. Gets back on. Hey, Ronnie
is still there. I'm like, yeah, I've been here for
an hour. How's it going. Uh? He goes, uh, you know,
we want you to go ahead and manage up in Hillsboro.
(04:44):
And uh, it was. It was shocked. It was excitement
and uh, you know, got off the phone and um
my wife looked at me and she goes, so, where
are you going? And I told her and she cried
for the both of us. So I appreciated that so
that I didn't have to do it. So it was
it was a great moment. That's so cool. And how
about the first phone calls you made after that? Who
(05:05):
was the first son call? Well? I actually I didn't.
I really wanted to tell my parents, um, because you know,
they've just supported me through everything growing up, of playing softball,
playing baseball, college and whatnot. And they were actually flying
in the next week for my mom's birthday, and so
I wanted to keep it for them because I wanted
to see there and see their face in person. And
we took him out to lunch, and um, you know,
(05:26):
told my dad, you know, hey, you guys are gonna
come up and visit A J and I up in
Hillsboro and they both stopped mid bye, look at me,
go is that where you're going to be next year?
And uh like yeah. I was like, hey, Dad, you
got any uh you know, when you're at the games,
can you just make sure you know I'm in the
right spot when I'm in the third base coaching box.
And my dad goes and actually my mom caught it
before my dad and my dad started staring out. My
(05:47):
mom started tearing up, so um, so I was really
it was a really cool moment to be able to
do that in person. But to be honest with you,
I kind of blacked out a little bit, So I
don't really know who I called after that. I kinda
I really didn't tell anybody until a couple of weeks ago.
So I felt like a little bit of a ninja
and spy the past couple of months living in hog
meat out. So that was good. Just just one question
for me, now that you've gotten this position and actually
(06:10):
rather rapidly or quickly, was this part of your aspiration
to eventually become a minor league manager? That was this
just kind of like literally out of left field? Or
is this something that you really had in your mind's
eye that you wanted to do eventually and that maybe
it happened sooner than your thought or just what were
your what were your thoughts going into the not just
into this season, into your career as as a as
(06:31):
a baseball coach, professional baseball coach, slash manager. Now, yeah, no, um,
you know, growing up in college or in high school,
they always have you do your five year plan, and um,
ever since I just if I look back at my
five year plan, there's no shot I would be where
I'm at today. Um So for me, I just as
(06:52):
as simple as it is, I just like to be happy,
and um, you know, as long as I know that
I'm keeping my head down and I'm working hard, then
I'm gonna go ahead and be where I need to be.
But it was definitely out of left field. And you know,
growing up there weren't really you know, there weren't female
coaches on the field for professional baseball or even managers
and so. And you know, a dream job, it's it's
something that you can achieve, and that that's something growing
(07:14):
up I never thought that I could. Um So I
never really thought about it, to be honest with you.
So I just I wanted to work hard, and you know,
I wanted to show who I was and what I
could bring to the table. And this is what was
on the table when Josh gave me that call. Coo,
I actually wrote down to your five what is your
five to tenure plan? And you actually just dropped that
on me right there. I mean, just as just again
(07:37):
drawing parallels. I mean, it's weird you're saying things that
I'm thinking I've written down already. And we were both
Polish and you like pet ages too. It's just uh,
as as I always went through this thing, I mean
for me because I never played in the big leagues. Um.
I was a minor league player and a scout and
all that kind of stuff, a coordinator everything, but I
always wanted to be in the major leagues. By the
(07:58):
time I was forty, that was kind of like my
my my goal. And like Tommy said, I started it
pretty much a image that you did. Um, now that
you're I know it's kind of quick and maybe you
haven't had a chance to really reflect. But now that
you're there, I mean, is a time too in a
sense readjust your your goal setting as you move it forward.
And yeah, I'm not trying to jump the gun, but um,
(08:19):
as you're seeing right now, to have an absolute goal
in direction and it just appears to be that's who
you are moving down the road. Is Uh, would you
consider when you're moving into like a five or tenure
mental plan right now? Is that's something you've thought about already? Um,
that's not something that I've thought about, um just yet.
But I think that I don't know. For me, I
(08:41):
don't really like to and I don't view this as
being lazy, but I don't really like to have a timetable.
I think that in my opinion, from what I've experienced
with my life. You know, everything happens for reason, all
of the successes, all of the failures. You know, it's
it's molding me into who I need to become to
then achieve that goal, um, whatever that goal is. But
(09:02):
I think that you know, I was I was watching
an interview and they were talking about asking people, you know,
if they think that there's gonna be a female manager
in the big leagues and within the next ten years,
and there's a lot of people who were saying yes.
So the fact that that is being said by people
who have been in this game, or broadcasting on this game,
or scouting this game for a long time, I think
that which is great to hear that that can be
(09:24):
on a female's five to ten year plan. And that's
something that you couldn't have said even to three years ago.
But the fact that you're even asking me that question
now shows the progress that if you do deserve to
be here, that you can't be here. I was kind
of insinuating all that, but again, well done. That's right. See,
we're just we're on the same level right now. It's
kind of weird getting freaked out here a little bit ahead. Yeah,
(09:48):
I definitely would sign on to that possibility. There's no
question about it. There's I say, why not, Um, if
you're skilled enough that there's nothing to stop you. As
you know, Ronnie, if we brought up that idea ten
years ago and you would most be well, it made
problem even you might have said no because that possibility
didn't exist. I wanted to take you back to when
(10:09):
you were at South Florida. Uh, and you told somebody,
my main goal is to be a head coach talking
about softball at the time while you're playing softball at
South Florida, retire and then work with little kids out
in Yellowstone or Yosemite or anywhere out west. Plans change that,
Plans definitely do change. So um, you know, I'd still
(10:29):
like to do that. That might be, you know, forty
years down the road that I'll be in a Yosemite
and whatnot, but uh, yeah, it is, and it's it's
it's funny when you look back at um, you know
just how many different paths that you can take. You know,
just like you're trying to get up to a mountain.
You know, there's different trails that you can take, but
they all lead to the same spot and you don't
necessarily have to be on the same path the whole
(10:50):
entire time. That's awesome. We're gonna take a quick break
and when we get back, I'm gonna ask Ronnie about
the challenges that she faces going forward and where she
got this baseball bug to begin with. Back in a minute,
(11:14):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our guest
Ronnie jow Nick, the manager of the High A Hillsboro
Hops in the Arizona Diamondback System. Uh and Roddy. I
asked about getting the baseball bug. It sounds like you
had it at a very young age. I believe your
dad played college baseball. Tell me about your love of
(11:35):
this game and where it came from. Yeah. So, um,
oddly enough, my parents are actually from the suburbs of Chicago.
I grew up loving Aurelio's pizza. I had a really
as pizza box on my wall growing up. And um,
my mom was a White Sox fan, but at the
time I was a daddy's girl. So I actually grew
up a Cubs fan. And um, you know, just ever since,
(11:57):
my dad would take me out as school growing up
in Central Florida. There's a lot of spring training complexes
around that area, so he would take me out of
school and um, you know, we would go to baseball
games and we just talk baseball, play baseball. Even when
I had swish over to softball, he would still want
me to swing a wooden bat. I'd be hitting baseball's
um and then just kind of throughout my years, just
(12:20):
you know, growing up a Cubs fan, and um, I
actually took my dad to a Cubs and Cardinals game
for his birthday one year. But it's just kind of
always been in me because you know, just being able
to watch those high level athletes and just his passion
growing up of playing within and to be able to
share that bond with him. It was a It was
a good time, and the fact that it's led me here,
I'm really appreciative of it. Yeah. I was gonna say,
(12:42):
tell us about your entry into professional baseball and where
that door first open, or even the idea came to
you that you could and wanted to pursue it. Yeah,
So it actually happened during covid Um USA Baseball and
MLB Pay Baseball. They put on different zooms, bringing in
ex coaches, scouts, umpires, um analysts just to come in
(13:05):
and talk to the alumni of the women's national baseball team.
So they brought in we were kind of doing all
these talks and I was just asking a bunch of
just different questions and I didn't realize until of the
fact how great my questions were. When Kim Ing and
Liz Ben who is now the director of Major League
Operations with the Mets, and obviously everybody knows Kim ing Um.
(13:27):
They emailed me asking me if I had any interest
in going into baseball, And you know, earlier that year,
I had obviously seen the push notification from ESPN in
regards of Rachel Folding getting the job, but I didn't
really think that that was a path for me or
did I know um how that path was to be created.
But through that email, UM, I thought, oh yeah, that's
(13:49):
actually pretty pretty interesting, and so um my resume was
sent out. I did a bunch of USA and UM
MLB camps virtually and then also to when that was
done actually in person, and with my resume being sent out,
I got some phone calls and some interest from believe
it was three different organizations. And my conversations with Diamondbacks
(14:11):
were we're absolutely great. You know, it's just kind of
just conversations you have when you sit down at the
bar and you're just kind of getting to know somebody,
see what they're about. And I was just kind of
through those conversations that an offer was extended to me
in regards about player development intern and you know, I
was I was pretty happy at UMSS, but I wanted
a little bit of a change, and I also to
want a little bit of a challenge and to see
(14:33):
how things were done in professional baseball. So I looked
at my wife like, hey, you're good with selling our
place here and going over the West coast, and she said,
let's go ahead and do it. So that opened my door,
and off off we started driving to Arizona. So now
you're in Arizona and spring training. He was right around
the corner, when is when is your minor league group report?
(14:56):
Did you have a date on that? I'm sure you
have a date on that, right, Yeah, so early early camp.
I believe staff is reporting on the fifteenth, and then
spring training I believe is on the seventh. I want
to say, okay, I'm just I'm just asking that question
because for me, I spent especially that first time through,
you spend a lot of time thinking how am I
(15:17):
going to address my team the first time? What is
the message going to be with my team the first
time through? And in the situation that you are in
right now, have you even gotten to that point? We Uh,
I'm a big planner, I'm a big organizer. All that
kind of stuff. Have you gotten to that point and
now what you thought about what you're address may sound
like look like to your team the first day to
get to stand in front of them, Yeah, no, I
(15:40):
think um so, I guess we are a little bit
similar as I've already started writing down a little bit
of the values of of what we want in Hillsboro.
And um, I think again it comes down to being
able to create that relationship with them, not as a player,
but as a person, and for them to know that
we're not here for them, that we're here with them
or with them day in and day out. And I
(16:01):
think true being able to you know, you can't truly
create progress until you tell the truth and you're able
to look in the mirror and see where you're at,
where you're you know, where your pros are at, where
your cons are at, So to be able to pinpoint, hey,
these are the things that we need to get better
at and to be vulnerable because again, if if if
(16:22):
you're not okay with looking at failure and figuring out
how to get better, then you're just gonna be stagnant.
So showing hey, we're here, we're all going to be
vulnerable here we're gonna look to see how we can
get better, and we're here with you to get you better.
Just one more question regarding how that's that's it's a
really good response. As you've gone through the ranks, as
you came up as a player and as a coach
(16:43):
in the minor leagues, Um, you have what you consider
to be some strengths and maybe some marria's that you're
looking forward to improve. Because I know as a young coach,
I did I mean coming out of it getting my
first opportunity, I thought it was decent. As a hitting coach,
maybe I was decent with catching and those kind of things.
And of course running a game is something completely different,
and do you actually get to do it. We're gonna
(17:04):
be standing in a third based coaching box. You don't
have to look into the dugout for the sign though.
You get to make it up on your own, and
that's kind of a neat gig to have too. But
do you at this point in your career do you
feel like you have some really I'm talking about fundamental
screens as a teacher, things that you really feel good about.
And conversely to that, are there areas that you're looking
to improve. As an example, for me, I always wanted
(17:25):
to become a better middle infielder instructor. So I really
hung out with the middle, the really solid middle infielders.
As I was moving through, I felt good as a
catching instructor. So what do you where do you think
your striends are and what do you look at that
I might need to rally around the right kind of
people to get more information. For me, I'm a very
good in regards of personality and very good communicator, paying
(17:48):
attention and being, like you said, around the right people
to learn from them. I think the biggest thing, like
you said, you can do so much to prepare, but
sometimes you have to gain experience by gaining experience and
actually being in the trenches and being in that third
base coaching box. So for me, Um, I would probably
say a little bit more in regards of the of
(18:10):
the hitting aspect of it. In regards of infield, they
feel pretty confident in me as a player also to
what I've already picked up from some of the some
of my great teammates here with the Diamondbacks. So just
being able on how to manage the game in regards
of also to just the pictures. I've been around them
a little bit in regards of my first year with
(18:30):
Hillsboro and really having to work with the track man,
being in the bullpen every single day when the guys
were throwing pens, and you know, seeing a little bit
of the inner workings, but just being able just to
truly manage that game. And you know, I've already been
talking to talk to Um one of our guys this morning,
or Nato, and then also to d Gardner. It's just
more so surrounding myself with the managers and saying, you know,
(18:52):
what they've learned and um, what they think that I
also too can get better at. I think it's why
I staying around with the pitching as much as you can.
I mean, that's the thing. If I had an advantage
in the sense having been a catcher, but as a manager, um,
you know, making the lineup is one thing that's not
that big of a deal. You're gonna be able to
make your line up daily, and within the minor league
(19:12):
situation like that, there's gonna be a lot of stuff
already done in advance. You know, you've got to play.
You're not going to pitch it for anybody. This guy's
gonna throw forward and you canna throw seventy, etcetera. But
as you continue to advance, to me, the thing that
really helps a lot, and that could really help set
you apart, would be how well you handle your pitching
staff and how much you understand them. And I'm listen,
(19:33):
I'm fully assured that you have a really good or
strong feeling about that. But to me, as a young manager, um,
that's really important as you work your way through the ranks, because,
after all, by the end of the season, it's like
having a quarterback in football. You have to have pictures
in baseball to win and uh, to hang around with
that that group, whether it's coaches, are actual players or pitchers,
(19:55):
it's really important to understand them. Yeah. Well, I appreciate
that neg of advice, so I'm gonna go ahead and
write that on down. Well, it sounds like you have
a good staff with you and Hill Borrow. You got
on the younger side. I think they're all in their
late thirties, but plenty of playing and coaching experience with
Gabby Hernandez ty right, Ronald Ramirez. So I'm sure you
know some of these guys from the year you spent
in Hillsboro, Ronnie, UM, give me an idea of your
(20:18):
connection with your staff heading into twenty three. Yeah, so
I've actually I've only worked a little bit with them,
so they weren't there in Hillsboro the year that I
was there. Um, but being able to work with them
right now during instructs, I'm actually going and getting dinner
with their hitting coach, Ty Wright tonight to a Reganos,
which is a close second to a reallyo. So that's
good stuff for Reaguenoza's outstandingstanding. I cannot wait, my I'm
(20:42):
I'm already ready to eat. We're meeting at five o'clock.
I'm like, I can't wait till seven o'clock. So we're
meeting at five. But um, but yeah, so kind of
taking each of them out to dinner individually and you know,
wanting to see who you know, who they are as people,
and what their expectations are for um, for each of
their groups, and then also to just kind of where
where they also want to get better. So I think
(21:05):
it's just creating, um, it's just creating a cohesive unit
and just understanding how everybody operates and tics. It's so
cool and Joe I'm sure you relate to that getting
to know someone in no place better than over a
good meal, kitchen somewhere man or a nice restaurant. For me,
it's a it's some good food and a glass of wine.
I've done the same stuff, Ronnie. I mean you're right.
I I think your approach is right on the money.
(21:27):
Um it's going to serve you well. And on top
of that, you're gonna have a great meal and possibly
a couple of nice cold beers or a great glass
of wine. And let me ask you this to this
as you're talking about all this, because you have to
have had this mentors or coaches or managers or from
your past, whether it's people you were directly related to
as a softball player, whatever, or just observationally professionally as
(21:51):
a kid growing up that post run your wall whatever,
Who's who in your mind's eye has been a great
influence on your for you, whether it's a mentor directly
somebody that you've known or coaches or manager, um in
in the in the doesn't just have to be baseball
in general. Who who really stands out to you? Um? So,
the first two who come to mind in regards to
(22:14):
softball would be Kevin Fagan um he we actually won
a national championship with him the year before I went
to college, and also to Ken Erickson, who was my
coach at the University of South Florida. And I think
the biggest thing, you know, you're always gaining UM as
a player, always gatting knowledge of you know, the fundamentals
of it. Hey, you're gonna be You're gonna go ahead
(22:35):
and look for this. Hey in this situation, it's this,
but it's it's more so how they went about their
business and how they carried themselves, of how professional they
were in regards of the relationships and the questions that
they asked, so the way that they carried themselves. Those
are the two big things or that's the big thing
that I got from them. And then also too in
regards of now being in baseball, really big mentor for
(22:58):
me is Shane Lukes, who is now one of our
pitching coordinators here with the Diamondbacks, who I worked with
um happily for two and a half years. He's probably
happy to get rid of me now, but he'll he'll
definitely be visiting a lot so. But Shane Lukes, he
he's he's a great mind on and off the field,
who he has as a person, and you know, you
go back to the vulnerability of things and being able
(23:19):
to look in the mirror, and you know, a lot
of people jokingly call him the Truth, and you know,
you you've got to be able to tell the truth.
You can't just beat around the bush because if you're
just being a beating around the bush, then you're not
actually advancing who you are as a person. So I
would say that those three are the first three that
pop pop into my mind that Listen, if I tell
you the truth, you might not like me for a
(23:39):
week or ten days, but if I lie to you're
gonna hate me forever. That's that's really what it comes
down to exactly. You have to establish relationships because the
next thing that occurs is that trust begins to flow.
And once that occurs, then you could actually exchange ideas,
because unless you have a relationship and you trust one another,
the exchange of ideas just becomes a pushback contest. Uh mona,
(24:02):
I'm not gonna agree with that person. I'm gonna stick
with what I think. I'm never going to concede. I
will not negotiate unless you have trust, build up with
the relationship, and eventually when you get all those things
and order, now you could have the really strong differences
of opinion and it could work. And then when you
get to that point where you could have a strong discussion,
argue whatever you want to call it, can both diverse opinions,
(24:27):
and at the end of that discussion come back and
and walk out on the field. Everybody's on the same
page on the same thing. That's pretty cool. But those
things have to be in order. Relationship building, trust, um,
the exchange of ideas before your constructive criticism can flow
both ways. And when that occurs, now you've got something.
Now you've got something. Because I don't want people to
agree with me all the time. That's the last thing
(24:49):
I want. It's very boring. I want to be challenged
constantly as a manager. From what I'm hearing, Ronnie sounds
like you want to be challenged constantly too, And that's
the only way we get a chance to grow. And
that's that's one of the not one of that. That's
the primary thing I've done in each city that I've
gone to. It's those those different steps in order to
get on the same page with the group and then
(25:09):
in that change built culture, become the race, become the
cups whatever, all those things have to be in order first. Yeah, no,
it's uh again, it's just crazy to think about. You know,
I never really thought that I was going to be
in a role like this because I never saw it.
And the fact that now little girls who come down
to spring training, um or you know, they're watching their
(25:32):
little brothers play baseball and they see, you know, Olivia
Paccardo who's playing at Brown, and they're saying, oh, hey,
my brother's plan. Then you know, can I play baseball too?
So the fact that now this option is open for
them and it's you're not going to get you know,
you might still get some people who are no, you
shouldn't do that, but there's gonna be a lot more
people who are who are saying, you know what, you
(25:53):
can because she's doing it, and she's doing it and
she's doing it over there. So the more that we're
able to build on that base, um, it's just gonna
be getting larger and larger as an It's not it's
it's gonna be second nature. Now, it's going to be normal.
It's not going to be the first it's not going
to be this or that. It's just gonna saying okay,
let's go ahead and do that. And we're gonna take
a quick break right here and we get back. Um,
(26:16):
we're gonna play one of our favorite games. Well, stick around.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and of
course this podcast. If you're enjoying this, you will certainly
enjoy the book, the Namesake Book, the Book of Joe
(26:38):
and Ronnie. We do this segment with all of our guests.
We think that when you pick up the Book of
Joe book, there's something interesting and formative, educational, even on
every page of the book. And to prove it, we
ask our guests to pick a number between one and
three hundred and sixty eight the pages in the book
and we'll take a little dive into the book to
(26:58):
see what it brings us. So you're on the spot
here to pick a number between one and three six eight. Well,
I actually have this. I have this book, and I
was actually gonna ask Joe if it's any good, if
I should keep it or return it, so ill this
would be perfect then, so I'll see, let's go ahead
and do uh, let's let's do a number thirty four.
How about that number thirty four? Is that your number? Yes?
(27:20):
It actually is. Is there a history behind that? Um?
Growing up, I really loved Carrie would So I wasn't
a picture, but I really loved the way he operated,
the way he held himself. So a number thirty four
is what it was. He's a good he's a great
dude too. That's awesome. Well, this is appropriate because we're
talking about managing in the Miners, and you know, Joel
(27:42):
has learned from a lot of good ones, and sometimes
you learn things that you don't want to do as
a manager from managers, so you pay attention to those things.
And Joe, this involves Moose stubbing, my man. Remember Moose stubbing?
Absolutely Okay he was at this point in the Miners
when Joe was with him, Moose was thirty nine years old.
(28:02):
He toiled mostly in the minds. His entire major league
career consisted of five hitless, pinch pinch hit appearances for
the sixty seven Angels, as stooping like to say, seventeen
days of coffee, but I didn't get a donut. He
later joined the Angels as a scout the nineteen seventy
six gig with the Quad City Angels was his first
as a manager. He insisted his players be on time.
(28:25):
Players even a minute late for the team bus were
left behind, keep a spanking clean clubhouse, and never forget
that he was the boss. There's one of me and
twenty five of you, stew being told his players. So
you better get to know me rather than me get
to know you. How about that ron, You think times
(28:48):
have changed a little bit? Oh man, Well, you know
what I will say in regards of being on time.
For me personally, I think the best currency you can
give someone is your time. You know, you can get
back money, you can get back clothes, you can get food,
but time and some thing that you literally can never
give back. So for me, time is very important to
be on time. So for that okay, now, I might
(29:10):
be getting a call from Josh Barfield if I leave
our starter behind, so I I'd like to keep my
job and see, you know what I can do the season.
So that probably won't be happening, But no, I think
in today's time it's there. You know. Back in the
day when I was growing up playing, if my coach
told me to put a bucket on my head and
go run a mile. I would say, I'd be like,
(29:32):
all right, which bucket put on my head and I
would just start running. But now you can't do that,
you know. And I think that that's also kudos to
two players taking ownership of their own careers into their
own paths. So I think that that's something that has
U has definitely changed. Yeah, we we didn't agree with him,
by the way, me and my roommate thought, John Lyons
we we we just could not believe that Mu muse
(29:55):
is no longer with us. But my buddy Dock, he
was a graduate of Gunzaga, first baseman, great guy. He's
passed away, but we were in credit us when said
that to that particular day. Unbelievable kind of Joe. I know,
we talked about this in the book. You know, as
someone that you grew up in that kind of Vince
Lombardi era right where that was the paradigm of how
(30:16):
you were a leader who was very tough a lot
of times relied on negative motivation. UM and Ronnie, I'm
curious your take on this to see you know, dealing
with players today. Um and I've talked to Dusty Baker
about this as well, and he's certainly adapted to this
different kind of way of teaching and leading that he said,
players are not going to respond to negative motivation. So
(30:39):
what are the kind of things you've learned about keeping
your players motivated and what works maybe what doesn't work? Yeah,
you I you cannot coach out of fear. I we
had a immense performance session a couple of days ago
and talking about the dark Passenger and kind of that,
you know, that negative devil on your shoulder telling you
all those bad things. And there's anonymous poll of you know,
(31:00):
what are some things that your dark passenger says to you?
And um people were saying, you know, I can't swing
the bat, I don't know how to play baseball. I
shouldn't be here. And you know, again, this is a
huge game of failure. So they're they're already the worst
enemy between their ears. We don't they don't need someone
externally going after them and you know, coaching them out
(31:21):
of fear. And I think it's more so of allowing
that vulnerability again too to succeed and also to to fail,
because when you fail, that's where that's where you see
where you're at and where you can get where you
can get better at I could just say, amen, I
agree with all of that right on. Great, well said Ronny,
this has really been a pleasure. I it's uh, it's
(31:41):
easy to see why Josh Barfield, the whole Diamondbacks organization
has such confidence in you, and hopefully our listeners feel
that as well. Um. I can't wait until you bring
home the Northwest League championship the way that Joe Madden
did back in two Yeah, if you if they hopefully
get that done, we'll figure something out. But just get
that done this year. Will figure out something at the
(32:03):
end of the season. Absolutely, Hey if I how about that?
Hey if if I, if I win, you gotta you
gotta cook me up some of your split p parogies.
How about that deal? I was just gonna say, you
are Do you live in Arizona in the wintertime too? No,
I actually lived down in Florida a little bit Park
Carrow Beach. We can figure something out. Okay, nice polish dinner,
that's the deal, all right? Sounds perfect, sounds great, awesome, awesome, best, delicious,
(32:25):
Thank you, appreciated, Thanks guys, well Joe Madden. I thought
Ronnie down Ache was super impressive. I'm so glad she's
got this opportunity now since it's all about performance, right,
it's she's she's broken through a ceiling here and and
I have no doubt she's gonna do a terrific job. Yeah. Confident, gregarious, um,
(32:46):
really confident, self confident what she has to say. And
I like that a lot. Um Uh, even with the
lack of experience in the game itself, professional baseball wise,
I think she's gonna be just fine because she is.
She's straightforward, she's really well thought out. I can imagine
she's highly organized, and she's fully full, she's polished, So
(33:07):
I think that that matters to me also, So I
really enjoyed that conversation a lot. I thought, she's, uh,
she's on top of things, man, and she's gonna have
a nice career. Yeah, And I honestly think, Joe, I
don't know how you feel about this. It probably will
be inside of ten years we you know, do see
a major league managers a woman. I wouldn't even rule
out the possibility of a picture or a position player
(33:30):
in the major leagues. I don't know what the time
frame is, but again, why not, and what we're doing
now is we are encouraging more young women to follow
that dream and it becomes now something that's real. Uh,
even more than the dream, it becomes something that's possible.
I don't want to put words in her mouth. That's
why I actually like the five of the tenure plan,
you know, um because I think I could get your
(33:53):
foot in the door like she has, and as she
goes through this season, maybe into the next couple of seasons,
I think it will become more fully um U implanted
within her. I really want to do this, or maybe
I just like to be stay as a coach or
a minor league manager, maybe as a major league coach.
But she's the kind of person. She's the one. I
mean her or the young lady Rachel. Uh, they're definitely
(34:15):
at the forefront of this. And it should take at
least ten years. I would think that's about the right
number to understand and and and really hone your craft
to be able to become a major league manager with
the experience necessary everything about it. So I think a
tenures is about right, and uh, I think less than
that would be kind of like an expedited form, which
I don't know what's going to happen. But she definitely
(34:36):
has the chops mentally, man, she's got the chops. Mentally.
She would do she'd be wonderful in front of the
press on a daily basis. There's no doubt in my mind.
It's just about understanding the game completely. And now she
relates to her players, which is really going to set
her path. I think absolutely, very very impressive. Joey, you
got something to take us out of this edition to
(34:57):
the Book of Joe Yeah. I'm going back to my
boy Ernie Hemingway. I read this the other day and
it's just something that I think that people of my age.
I'll be what, uh sixty nine in a New forty
nine in February. But Ernie said, uh no, that is
a great fallacy the wisdom of old men. They do
(35:19):
not grow wise, They just grow careful or cautious. Um,
and that was that was awesome because the point is, man,
at whatever age you are, do not grow careful, do
not grow cautious. Just keep pushing the envelope, keep growing. Hey,
I never knew you and Ernie were tight. That's pretty cool. Well,
what I want to do is at some point my
band is almost done. The six seventies six is almost done.
(35:40):
Hopefully it is in the back of my mind just
to get in and take ten all the way down
the Southern Round and end up down in Key West
and just go hang out of his pad a little
bit and soak it up. I mean, I have you
ever been to his house in Key West with all
the cats hanging out and stuff. It's uh, I have
more than they like that. They have different kind of
pause or something. Yeah, one has something exactly, something crazy,
(36:02):
But they just sit there and they're they're not You're
you're not permitted to move them or get upset with them.
They rule the roost. Actually, so I m now that
I become more of a Hemmingway fan. I think at
some point I need to take the van down there,
just hang out and and see where that takes me.
Those thoughts take me. But everything. I follow him on Twitter.
There's a Twitter follow for Heimingway, and there's a lot
(36:23):
of really good nuggets. And I just picked this one
up the other day. Awesome, We'll see you next time, Joe. Alright, brother,
have a great night. The Book of Joe podcast is
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my Heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(36:44):
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome to another episode of the
Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and my
good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, I want to take you
down memory lane today. I hope that's okay with you,
(00:27):
because I'm gonna bring you back to two Young Joe
Madden is second year managing in the minor leagues. He's
twenty nine years old, and it gets a gig in
the Northwest League with the Salem Angels. Why am I
bringing that up? Well, today we have a special guest.
We have the manager of the Hillsboro Hops in the
(00:51):
Northwest League. And by the way, it's only about fifty
miles now, I five from Salem, the connection to Oregon
in the Northwest League all these years apart, and it's
a little bit different now because the manager now is
Ronnie Gagownik, and Ronnie, thanks so much for joining us.
Of course, I was told that your real name is Veronica,
(01:14):
but I guess only your mom used that what you
need to do the dishes? Is that true? Yeah? You
know what. Growing up, I used to go bowling a lot,
and Ronica didn't fit on there, and she goes, hey,
why don't we go ahead and use Ronnie? And you
know what, it's stuck ever since. But yeah, she only
calls me that whenever she is yelling at me to
do the dishes, whenever I go back home. So I
cringe a little bit every single time. You know, I
(01:34):
hear Ronicka. So if I did that a little bit,
that's why. So how do you say good John? It's
g jow Polish. It is Polish you and my My
real last name is actually die ovniqu g a j
o w z c k um, but my great grandfather
changed it when I came over to americanize it. I
(01:56):
don't know how American gagownick is, but you know what's
better than a gun? I guess. Well, the similarities continue
because I am half Polish. Also my mom's side of
the family's clothes sec. And so when I saw that,
I figured as much. I didn't I didn't put together
Veronica with Ronnie, but I think that's pretty cool too.
And then furthermore, to be situated in Oregon Um that
(02:17):
year in two we did win the Northwest League title.
I had some big leaguers on that team, Mark McLamore
being one of the most prominent. Kurt McCaskill was another one,
or Bonalugo. I had a great time up there. It's
the weather's you would think in the Northwest people always complain,
but it's actually pretty good in the summertime. But if
you have allergies in that neck of the woods, summer
(02:37):
allergies are pretty nasty. I I thought it was developing
asthma up there, but nevertheless, it's a great spot to
begin your career. Again, there are so many similarities. I'm
very very happy for you. See now, if you like parogus,
then we're definitely kindred spirits. I make podogi, I make
cold up gay. I got all that stuff in my back. Actually,
(02:59):
our restaurant in Chicago was the Maddness Post. We were
a fusion between iron and Polish food. We had to
shut her down. They we were making split pe pudogi,
and I promise you the best everon Do you ever
have Mrs t s petogi? No, I actually have not. Okay, Well,
that's made in Shenando, which is right down the street
from my hometown. Through everywhere. Check it out, Mrs ts
(03:20):
check it out. I have had those jos, I can
vouch for very good. I can't very good post games
spread at the Hillsboro Hops game paro, right, players will
just absolutely to kill the postgame spread. Well, Ronnie, let
me really congratulations um getting obviously this historic job managing
the first time a female will be managing a High
(03:42):
A team. So congratulations, well deserved. Um. You have to
take me back. We'll get into your background, of course,
but you have to take me back to the phone
call or maybe it was done in person when you
first found out that this was going to be your
assignment for to be a High A manager. Yeah, so
it happened. I believe it was in October that Josh
called me. I was actually out here in Arizona work
(04:03):
in the folly with the Salt River Rafters, and you know,
just a normal day cleaning my blinds in my apartment.
All of a sudden I get a you know, call
from Josh Barfield and I think, ano, jeez, what's gonna happen?
And I wasn't expecting a call and picked it up,
and you know, a little bit of small talk, how's
it going, you know, just cleaning my blind just a
normal day, and he goes all right, Well, we want
(04:23):
to go ahead and talk to you about next season.
I'm like, okay, sounds good. He's like, so we'd like
you to be in Hillsboro. Oh, wait, hold on a second,
I'm getting another call. So I'm patiently waiting there for
what feels like five minutes. Gets back on. Hey, Ronnie
is still there. I'm like, yeah, I've been here for
an hour. How's it going. Uh? He goes, uh, you know,
we want you to go ahead and manage up in Hillsboro.
(04:44):
And uh, it was. It was shocked. It was excitement
and uh, you know, got off the phone and um
my wife looked at me and she goes, so, where
are you going? And I told her and she cried
for the both of us. So I appreciated that so
that I didn't have to do it. So it was
it was a great moment. That's so cool. And how
about the first phone calls you made after that? Who
(05:05):
was the first son call? Well? I actually I didn't.
I really wanted to tell my parents, um, because you know,
they've just supported me through everything growing up, of playing softball,
playing baseball, college and whatnot. And they were actually flying
in the next week for my mom's birthday, and so
I wanted to keep it for them because I wanted
to see there and see their face in person. And
we took him out to lunch, and um, you know,
(05:26):
told my dad, you know, hey, you guys are gonna
come up and visit A J and I up in
Hillsboro and they both stopped mid bye, look at me,
go is that where you're going to be next year?
And uh like yeah. I was like, hey, Dad, you
got any uh you know, when you're at the games,
can you just make sure you know I'm in the
right spot when I'm in the third base coaching box.
And my dad goes and actually my mom caught it
before my dad and my dad started staring out. My
(05:47):
mom started tearing up, so um, so I was really
it was a really cool moment to be able to
do that in person. But to be honest with you,
I kind of blacked out a little bit, So I
don't really know who I called after that. I kinda
I really didn't tell anybody until a couple of weeks ago.
So I felt like a little bit of a ninja
and spy the past couple of months living in hog
meat out. So that was good. Just just one question
for me, now that you've gotten this position and actually
(06:10):
rather rapidly or quickly, was this part of your aspiration
to eventually become a minor league manager? That was this
just kind of like literally out of left field? Or
is this something that you really had in your mind's
eye that you wanted to do eventually and that maybe
it happened sooner than your thought or just what were
your what were your thoughts going into the not just
into this season, into your career as as a as
(06:31):
a baseball coach, professional baseball coach, slash manager. Now, yeah, no, um,
you know, growing up in college or in high school,
they always have you do your five year plan, and um,
ever since I just if I look back at my
five year plan, there's no shot I would be where
I'm at today. Um So for me, I just as
(06:52):
as simple as it is, I just like to be happy,
and um, you know, as long as I know that
I'm keeping my head down and I'm working hard, then
I'm gonna go ahead and be where I need to be.
But it was definitely out of left field. And you know,
growing up there weren't really you know, there weren't female
coaches on the field for professional baseball or even managers
and so. And you know, a dream job, it's it's
something that you can achieve, and that that's something growing
(07:14):
up I never thought that I could. Um So I
never really thought about it, to be honest with you.
So I just I wanted to work hard, and you know,
I wanted to show who I was and what I
could bring to the table. And this is what was
on the table when Josh gave me that call. Coo,
I actually wrote down to your five what is your
five to tenure plan? And you actually just dropped that
on me right there. I mean, just as just again
(07:37):
drawing parallels. I mean, it's weird you're saying things that
I'm thinking I've written down already. And we were both
Polish and you like pet ages too. It's just uh,
as as I always went through this thing, I mean
for me because I never played in the big leagues. Um.
I was a minor league player and a scout and
all that kind of stuff, a coordinator everything, but I
always wanted to be in the major leagues. By the
(07:58):
time I was forty, that was kind of like my
my my goal. And like Tommy said, I started it
pretty much a image that you did. Um, now that
you're I know it's kind of quick and maybe you
haven't had a chance to really reflect. But now that
you're there, I mean, is a time too in a
sense readjust your your goal setting as you move it forward.
And yeah, I'm not trying to jump the gun, but um,
(08:19):
as you're seeing right now, to have an absolute goal
in direction and it just appears to be that's who
you are moving down the road. Is Uh, would you
consider when you're moving into like a five or tenure
mental plan right now? Is that's something you've thought about already? Um,
that's not something that I've thought about, um just yet.
But I think that I don't know. For me, I
(08:41):
don't really like to and I don't view this as
being lazy, but I don't really like to have a timetable.
I think that in my opinion, from what I've experienced
with my life. You know, everything happens for reason, all
of the successes, all of the failures. You know, it's
it's molding me into who I need to become to
then achieve that goal, um, whatever that goal is. But
(09:02):
I think that you know, I was I was watching
an interview and they were talking about asking people, you know,
if they think that there's gonna be a female manager
in the big leagues and within the next ten years,
and there's a lot of people who were saying yes.
So the fact that that is being said by people
who have been in this game, or broadcasting on this game,
or scouting this game for a long time, I think
that which is great to hear that that can be
(09:24):
on a female's five to ten year plan. And that's
something that you couldn't have said even to three years ago.
But the fact that you're even asking me that question
now shows the progress that if you do deserve to
be here, that you can't be here. I was kind
of insinuating all that, but again, well done. That's right. See,
we're just we're on the same level right now. It's
kind of weird getting freaked out here a little bit ahead. Yeah,
(09:48):
I definitely would sign on to that possibility. There's no
question about it. There's I say, why not, Um, if
you're skilled enough that there's nothing to stop you. As
you know, Ronnie, if we brought up that idea ten
years ago and you would most be well, it made
problem even you might have said no because that possibility
didn't exist. I wanted to take you back to when
(10:09):
you were at South Florida. Uh, and you told somebody,
my main goal is to be a head coach talking
about softball at the time while you're playing softball at
South Florida, retire and then work with little kids out
in Yellowstone or Yosemite or anywhere out west. Plans change that,
Plans definitely do change. So um, you know, I'd still
(10:29):
like to do that. That might be, you know, forty
years down the road that I'll be in a Yosemite
and whatnot, but uh, yeah, it is, and it's it's
it's funny when you look back at um, you know
just how many different paths that you can take. You know,
just like you're trying to get up to a mountain.
You know, there's different trails that you can take, but
they all lead to the same spot and you don't
necessarily have to be on the same path the whole
(10:50):
entire time. That's awesome. We're gonna take a quick break
and when we get back, I'm gonna ask Ronnie about
the challenges that she faces going forward and where she
got this baseball bug to begin with. Back in a minute,
(11:14):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our guest
Ronnie jow Nick, the manager of the High A Hillsboro
Hops in the Arizona Diamondback System. Uh and Roddy. I
asked about getting the baseball bug. It sounds like you
had it at a very young age. I believe your
dad played college baseball. Tell me about your love of
(11:35):
this game and where it came from. Yeah. So, um,
oddly enough, my parents are actually from the suburbs of Chicago.
I grew up loving Aurelio's pizza. I had a really
as pizza box on my wall growing up. And um,
my mom was a White Sox fan, but at the
time I was a daddy's girl. So I actually grew
up a Cubs fan. And um, you know, just ever since,
(11:57):
my dad would take me out as school growing up
in Central Florida. There's a lot of spring training complexes
around that area, so he would take me out of
school and um, you know, we would go to baseball
games and we just talk baseball, play baseball. Even when
I had swish over to softball, he would still want
me to swing a wooden bat. I'd be hitting baseball's
um and then just kind of throughout my years, just
(12:20):
you know, growing up a Cubs fan, and um, I
actually took my dad to a Cubs and Cardinals game
for his birthday one year. But it's just kind of
always been in me because you know, just being able
to watch those high level athletes and just his passion
growing up of playing within and to be able to
share that bond with him. It was a It was
a good time, and the fact that it's led me here,
I'm really appreciative of it. Yeah. I was gonna say,
(12:42):
tell us about your entry into professional baseball and where
that door first open, or even the idea came to
you that you could and wanted to pursue it. Yeah,
So it actually happened during covid Um USA Baseball and
MLB Pay Baseball. They put on different zooms, bringing in
ex coaches, scouts, umpires, um analysts just to come in
(13:05):
and talk to the alumni of the women's national baseball team.
So they brought in we were kind of doing all
these talks and I was just asking a bunch of
just different questions and I didn't realize until of the
fact how great my questions were. When Kim Ing and
Liz Ben who is now the director of Major League
Operations with the Mets, and obviously everybody knows Kim ing Um.
(13:27):
They emailed me asking me if I had any interest
in going into baseball, And you know, earlier that year,
I had obviously seen the push notification from ESPN in
regards of Rachel Folding getting the job, but I didn't
really think that that was a path for me or
did I know um how that path was to be created.
But through that email, UM, I thought, oh yeah, that's
(13:49):
actually pretty pretty interesting, and so um my resume was
sent out. I did a bunch of USA and UM
MLB camps virtually and then also to when that was
done actually in person, and with my resume being sent out,
I got some phone calls and some interest from believe
it was three different organizations. And my conversations with Diamondbacks
(14:11):
were we're absolutely great. You know, it's just kind of
just conversations you have when you sit down at the
bar and you're just kind of getting to know somebody,
see what they're about. And I was just kind of
through those conversations that an offer was extended to me
in regards about player development intern and you know, I
was I was pretty happy at UMSS, but I wanted
a little bit of a change, and I also to
want a little bit of a challenge and to see
(14:33):
how things were done in professional baseball. So I looked
at my wife like, hey, you're good with selling our
place here and going over the West coast, and she said,
let's go ahead and do it. So that opened my door,
and off off we started driving to Arizona. So now
you're in Arizona and spring training. He was right around
the corner, when is when is your minor league group report?
(14:56):
Did you have a date on that? I'm sure you
have a date on that, right, Yeah, so early early camp.
I believe staff is reporting on the fifteenth, and then
spring training I believe is on the seventh. I want
to say, okay, I'm just I'm just asking that question
because for me, I spent especially that first time through,
you spend a lot of time thinking how am I
(15:17):
going to address my team the first time? What is
the message going to be with my team the first
time through? And in the situation that you are in
right now, have you even gotten to that point? We Uh,
I'm a big planner, I'm a big organizer. All that
kind of stuff. Have you gotten to that point and
now what you thought about what you're address may sound
like look like to your team the first day to
get to stand in front of them, Yeah, no, I
(15:40):
think um so, I guess we are a little bit
similar as I've already started writing down a little bit
of the values of of what we want in Hillsboro.
And um, I think again it comes down to being
able to create that relationship with them, not as a player,
but as a person, and for them to know that
we're not here for them, that we're here with them
or with them day in and day out. And I
(16:01):
think true being able to you know, you can't truly
create progress until you tell the truth and you're able
to look in the mirror and see where you're at,
where you're you know, where your pros are at, where
your cons are at, So to be able to pinpoint, hey,
these are the things that we need to get better
at and to be vulnerable because again, if if if
(16:22):
you're not okay with looking at failure and figuring out
how to get better, then you're just gonna be stagnant.
So showing hey, we're here, we're all going to be
vulnerable here we're gonna look to see how we can
get better, and we're here with you to get you better.
Just one more question regarding how that's that's it's a
really good response. As you've gone through the ranks, as
you came up as a player and as a coach
(16:43):
in the minor leagues, Um, you have what you consider
to be some strengths and maybe some marria's that you're
looking forward to improve. Because I know as a young coach,
I did I mean coming out of it getting my
first opportunity, I thought it was decent. As a hitting coach,
maybe I was decent with catching and those kind of things.
And of course running a game is something completely different,
and do you actually get to do it. We're gonna
(17:04):
be standing in a third based coaching box. You don't
have to look into the dugout for the sign though.
You get to make it up on your own, and
that's kind of a neat gig to have too. But
do you at this point in your career do you
feel like you have some really I'm talking about fundamental
screens as a teacher, things that you really feel good about.
And conversely to that, are there areas that you're looking
to improve. As an example, for me, I always wanted
(17:25):
to become a better middle infielder instructor. So I really
hung out with the middle, the really solid middle infielders.
As I was moving through, I felt good as a
catching instructor. So what do you where do you think
your striends are and what do you look at that
I might need to rally around the right kind of
people to get more information. For me, I'm a very
good in regards of personality and very good communicator, paying
(17:48):
attention and being, like you said, around the right people
to learn from them. I think the biggest thing, like
you said, you can do so much to prepare, but
sometimes you have to gain experience by gaining experience and
actually being in the trenches and being in that third
base coaching box. So for me, Um, I would probably
say a little bit more in regards of the of
(18:10):
the hitting aspect of it. In regards of infield, they
feel pretty confident in me as a player also to
what I've already picked up from some of the some
of my great teammates here with the Diamondbacks. So just
being able on how to manage the game in regards
of also to just the pictures. I've been around them
a little bit in regards of my first year with
(18:30):
Hillsboro and really having to work with the track man,
being in the bullpen every single day when the guys
were throwing pens, and you know, seeing a little bit
of the inner workings, but just being able just to
truly manage that game. And you know, I've already been
talking to talk to Um one of our guys this morning,
or Nato, and then also to d Gardner. It's just
more so surrounding myself with the managers and saying, you know,
(18:52):
what they've learned and um, what they think that I
also too can get better at. I think it's why
I staying around with the pitching as much as you can.
I mean, that's the thing. If I had an advantage
in the sense having been a catcher, but as a manager, um,
you know, making the lineup is one thing that's not
that big of a deal. You're gonna be able to
make your line up daily, and within the minor league
(19:12):
situation like that, there's gonna be a lot of stuff
already done in advance. You know, you've got to play.
You're not going to pitch it for anybody. This guy's
gonna throw forward and you canna throw seventy, etcetera. But
as you continue to advance, to me, the thing that
really helps a lot, and that could really help set
you apart, would be how well you handle your pitching
staff and how much you understand them. And I'm listen,
(19:33):
I'm fully assured that you have a really good or
strong feeling about that. But to me, as a young manager, um,
that's really important as you work your way through the ranks, because,
after all, by the end of the season, it's like
having a quarterback in football. You have to have pictures
in baseball to win and uh, to hang around with
that that group, whether it's coaches, are actual players or pitchers,
(19:55):
it's really important to understand them. Yeah. Well, I appreciate
that neg of advice, so I'm gonna go ahead and
write that on down. Well, it sounds like you have
a good staff with you and Hill Borrow. You got
on the younger side. I think they're all in their
late thirties, but plenty of playing and coaching experience with
Gabby Hernandez ty right, Ronald Ramirez. So I'm sure you
know some of these guys from the year you spent
in Hillsboro, Ronnie, UM, give me an idea of your
(20:18):
connection with your staff heading into twenty three. Yeah, so
I've actually I've only worked a little bit with them,
so they weren't there in Hillsboro the year that I
was there. Um, but being able to work with them
right now during instructs, I'm actually going and getting dinner
with their hitting coach, Ty Wright tonight to a Reganos,
which is a close second to a reallyo. So that's
good stuff for Reaguenoza's outstandingstanding. I cannot wait, my I'm
(20:42):
I'm already ready to eat. We're meeting at five o'clock.
I'm like, I can't wait till seven o'clock. So we're
meeting at five. But um, but yeah, so kind of
taking each of them out to dinner individually and you know,
wanting to see who you know, who they are as people,
and what their expectations are for um, for each of
their groups, and then also to just kind of where
where they also want to get better. So I think
(21:05):
it's just creating, um, it's just creating a cohesive unit
and just understanding how everybody operates and tics. It's so
cool and Joe I'm sure you relate to that getting
to know someone in no place better than over a
good meal, kitchen somewhere man or a nice restaurant. For me,
it's a it's some good food and a glass of wine.
I've done the same stuff, Ronnie. I mean you're right.
I I think your approach is right on the money.
(21:27):
Um it's going to serve you well. And on top
of that, you're gonna have a great meal and possibly
a couple of nice cold beers or a great glass
of wine. And let me ask you this to this
as you're talking about all this, because you have to
have had this mentors or coaches or managers or from
your past, whether it's people you were directly related to
as a softball player, whatever, or just observationally professionally as
(21:51):
a kid growing up that post run your wall whatever,
Who's who in your mind's eye has been a great
influence on your for you, whether it's a mentor directly
somebody that you've known or coaches or manager, um in
in the in the doesn't just have to be baseball
in general. Who who really stands out to you? Um? So,
the first two who come to mind in regards to
(22:14):
softball would be Kevin Fagan um he we actually won
a national championship with him the year before I went
to college, and also to Ken Erickson, who was my
coach at the University of South Florida. And I think
the biggest thing, you know, you're always gaining UM as
a player, always gatting knowledge of you know, the fundamentals
of it. Hey, you're gonna be You're gonna go ahead
(22:35):
and look for this. Hey in this situation, it's this,
but it's it's more so how they went about their
business and how they carried themselves, of how professional they
were in regards of the relationships and the questions that
they asked, so the way that they carried themselves. Those
are the two big things or that's the big thing
that I got from them. And then also too in
regards of now being in baseball, really big mentor for
(22:58):
me is Shane Lukes, who is now one of our
pitching coordinators here with the Diamondbacks, who I worked with
um happily for two and a half years. He's probably
happy to get rid of me now, but he'll he'll
definitely be visiting a lot so. But Shane Lukes, he
he's he's a great mind on and off the field,
who he has as a person, and you know, you
go back to the vulnerability of things and being able
(23:19):
to look in the mirror, and you know, a lot
of people jokingly call him the Truth, and you know,
you you've got to be able to tell the truth.
You can't just beat around the bush because if you're
just being a beating around the bush, then you're not
actually advancing who you are as a person. So I
would say that those three are the first three that
pop pop into my mind that Listen, if I tell
you the truth, you might not like me for a
(23:39):
week or ten days, but if I lie to you're
gonna hate me forever. That's that's really what it comes
down to exactly. You have to establish relationships because the
next thing that occurs is that trust begins to flow.
And once that occurs, then you could actually exchange ideas,
because unless you have a relationship and you trust one another,
the exchange of ideas just becomes a pushback contest. Uh mona,
(24:02):
I'm not gonna agree with that person. I'm gonna stick
with what I think. I'm never going to concede. I
will not negotiate unless you have trust, build up with
the relationship, and eventually when you get all those things
and order, now you could have the really strong differences
of opinion and it could work. And then when you
get to that point where you could have a strong discussion,
argue whatever you want to call it, can both diverse opinions,
(24:27):
and at the end of that discussion come back and
and walk out on the field. Everybody's on the same
page on the same thing. That's pretty cool. But those
things have to be in order. Relationship building, trust, um,
the exchange of ideas before your constructive criticism can flow
both ways. And when that occurs, now you've got something.
Now you've got something. Because I don't want people to
agree with me all the time. That's the last thing
(24:49):
I want. It's very boring. I want to be challenged
constantly as a manager. From what I'm hearing, Ronnie sounds
like you want to be challenged constantly too, And that's
the only way we get a chance to grow. And
that's that's one of the not one of that. That's
the primary thing I've done in each city that I've
gone to. It's those those different steps in order to
get on the same page with the group and then
(25:09):
in that change built culture, become the race, become the
cups whatever, all those things have to be in order first. Yeah, no,
it's uh again, it's just crazy to think about. You know,
I never really thought that I was going to be
in a role like this because I never saw it.
And the fact that now little girls who come down
to spring training, um or you know, they're watching their
(25:32):
little brothers play baseball and they see, you know, Olivia
Paccardo who's playing at Brown, and they're saying, oh, hey,
my brother's plan. Then you know, can I play baseball too?
So the fact that now this option is open for
them and it's you're not going to get you know,
you might still get some people who are no, you
shouldn't do that, but there's gonna be a lot more
people who are who are saying, you know what, you
(25:53):
can because she's doing it, and she's doing it and
she's doing it over there. So the more that we're
able to build on that base, um, it's just gonna
be getting larger and larger as an It's not it's
it's gonna be second nature. Now, it's going to be normal.
It's not going to be the first it's not going
to be this or that. It's just gonna saying okay,
let's go ahead and do that. And we're gonna take
a quick break right here and we get back. Um,
(26:16):
we're gonna play one of our favorite games. Well, stick around.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and of
course this podcast. If you're enjoying this, you will certainly
enjoy the book, the Namesake Book, the Book of Joe
(26:38):
and Ronnie. We do this segment with all of our guests.
We think that when you pick up the Book of
Joe book, there's something interesting and formative, educational, even on
every page of the book. And to prove it, we
ask our guests to pick a number between one and
three hundred and sixty eight the pages in the book
and we'll take a little dive into the book to
(26:58):
see what it brings us. So you're on the spot
here to pick a number between one and three six eight. Well,
I actually have this. I have this book, and I
was actually gonna ask Joe if it's any good, if
I should keep it or return it, so ill this
would be perfect then, so I'll see, let's go ahead
and do uh, let's let's do a number thirty four.
How about that number thirty four? Is that your number? Yes?
(27:20):
It actually is. Is there a history behind that? Um?
Growing up, I really loved Carrie would So I wasn't
a picture, but I really loved the way he operated,
the way he held himself. So a number thirty four
is what it was. He's a good he's a great
dude too. That's awesome. Well, this is appropriate because we're
talking about managing in the Miners, and you know, Joel
(27:42):
has learned from a lot of good ones, and sometimes
you learn things that you don't want to do as
a manager from managers, so you pay attention to those things.
And Joe, this involves Moose stubbing, my man. Remember Moose stubbing?
Absolutely Okay he was at this point in the Miners
when Joe was with him, Moose was thirty nine years old.
(28:02):
He toiled mostly in the minds. His entire major league
career consisted of five hitless, pinch pinch hit appearances for
the sixty seven Angels, as stooping like to say, seventeen
days of coffee, but I didn't get a donut. He
later joined the Angels as a scout the nineteen seventy
six gig with the Quad City Angels was his first
as a manager. He insisted his players be on time.
(28:25):
Players even a minute late for the team bus were
left behind, keep a spanking clean clubhouse, and never forget
that he was the boss. There's one of me and
twenty five of you, stew being told his players. So
you better get to know me rather than me get
to know you. How about that ron, You think times
(28:48):
have changed a little bit? Oh man, Well, you know
what I will say in regards of being on time.
For me personally, I think the best currency you can
give someone is your time. You know, you can get
back money, you can get back clothes, you can get food,
but time and some thing that you literally can never
give back. So for me, time is very important to
be on time. So for that okay, now, I might
(29:10):
be getting a call from Josh Barfield if I leave
our starter behind, so I I'd like to keep my
job and see, you know what I can do the season.
So that probably won't be happening, But no, I think
in today's time it's there. You know. Back in the
day when I was growing up playing, if my coach
told me to put a bucket on my head and
go run a mile. I would say, I'd be like,
(29:32):
all right, which bucket put on my head and I
would just start running. But now you can't do that,
you know. And I think that that's also kudos to
two players taking ownership of their own careers into their
own paths. So I think that that's something that has
U has definitely changed. Yeah, we we didn't agree with him,
by the way, me and my roommate thought, John Lyons
we we we just could not believe that Mu muse
(29:55):
is no longer with us. But my buddy Dock, he
was a graduate of Gunzaga, first baseman, great guy. He's
passed away, but we were in credit us when said
that to that particular day. Unbelievable kind of Joe. I know,
we talked about this in the book. You know, as
someone that you grew up in that kind of Vince
Lombardi era right where that was the paradigm of how
(30:16):
you were a leader who was very tough a lot
of times relied on negative motivation. UM and Ronnie, I'm
curious your take on this to see you know, dealing
with players today. Um and I've talked to Dusty Baker
about this as well, and he's certainly adapted to this
different kind of way of teaching and leading that he said,
players are not going to respond to negative motivation. So
(30:39):
what are the kind of things you've learned about keeping
your players motivated and what works maybe what doesn't work? Yeah,
you I you cannot coach out of fear. I we
had a immense performance session a couple of days ago
and talking about the dark Passenger and kind of that,
you know, that negative devil on your shoulder telling you
all those bad things. And there's anonymous poll of you know,
(31:00):
what are some things that your dark passenger says to you?
And um people were saying, you know, I can't swing
the bat, I don't know how to play baseball. I
shouldn't be here. And you know, again, this is a
huge game of failure. So they're they're already the worst
enemy between their ears. We don't they don't need someone
externally going after them and you know, coaching them out
(31:21):
of fear. And I think it's more so of allowing
that vulnerability again too to succeed and also to to fail,
because when you fail, that's where that's where you see
where you're at and where you can get where you
can get better at I could just say, amen, I
agree with all of that right on. Great, well said Ronny,
this has really been a pleasure. I it's uh, it's
(31:41):
easy to see why Josh Barfield, the whole Diamondbacks organization
has such confidence in you, and hopefully our listeners feel
that as well. Um. I can't wait until you bring
home the Northwest League championship the way that Joe Madden
did back in two Yeah, if you if they hopefully
get that done, we'll figure something out. But just get
that done this year. Will figure out something at the
(32:03):
end of the season. Absolutely, Hey if I how about that?
Hey if if I, if I win, you gotta you
gotta cook me up some of your split p parogies.
How about that deal? I was just gonna say, you
are Do you live in Arizona in the wintertime too? No,
I actually lived down in Florida a little bit Park
Carrow Beach. We can figure something out. Okay, nice polish dinner,
that's the deal, all right? Sounds perfect, sounds great, awesome, awesome, best, delicious,
(32:25):
Thank you, appreciated, Thanks guys, well Joe Madden. I thought
Ronnie down Ache was super impressive. I'm so glad she's
got this opportunity now since it's all about performance, right,
it's she's she's broken through a ceiling here and and
I have no doubt she's gonna do a terrific job. Yeah. Confident, gregarious, um,
(32:46):
really confident, self confident what she has to say. And
I like that a lot. Um Uh, even with the
lack of experience in the game itself, professional baseball wise,
I think she's gonna be just fine because she is.
She's straightforward, she's really well thought out. I can imagine
she's highly organized, and she's fully full, she's polished, So
(33:07):
I think that that matters to me also, So I
really enjoyed that conversation a lot. I thought, she's, uh,
she's on top of things, man, and she's gonna have
a nice career. Yeah, And I honestly think, Joe, I
don't know how you feel about this. It probably will
be inside of ten years we you know, do see
a major league managers a woman. I wouldn't even rule
out the possibility of a picture or a position player
(33:30):
in the major leagues. I don't know what the time
frame is, but again, why not, and what we're doing
now is we are encouraging more young women to follow
that dream and it becomes now something that's real. Uh,
even more than the dream, it becomes something that's possible.
I don't want to put words in her mouth. That's
why I actually like the five of the tenure plan,
you know, um because I think I could get your
(33:53):
foot in the door like she has, and as she
goes through this season, maybe into the next couple of seasons,
I think it will become more fully um U implanted
within her. I really want to do this, or maybe
I just like to be stay as a coach or
a minor league manager, maybe as a major league coach.
But she's the kind of person. She's the one. I
mean her or the young lady Rachel. Uh, they're definitely
(34:15):
at the forefront of this. And it should take at
least ten years. I would think that's about the right
number to understand and and and really hone your craft
to be able to become a major league manager with
the experience necessary everything about it. So I think a
tenures is about right, and uh, I think less than
that would be kind of like an expedited form, which
I don't know what's going to happen. But she definitely
(34:36):
has the chops mentally, man, she's got the chops. Mentally.
She would do she'd be wonderful in front of the
press on a daily basis. There's no doubt in my mind.
It's just about understanding the game completely. And now she
relates to her players, which is really going to set
her path. I think absolutely, very very impressive. Joey, you
got something to take us out of this edition to
(34:57):
the Book of Joe Yeah. I'm going back to my
boy Ernie Hemingway. I read this the other day and
it's just something that I think that people of my age.
I'll be what, uh sixty nine in a New forty
nine in February. But Ernie said, uh no, that is
a great fallacy the wisdom of old men. They do
(35:19):
not grow wise, They just grow careful or cautious. Um,
and that was that was awesome because the point is, man,
at whatever age you are, do not grow careful, do
not grow cautious. Just keep pushing the envelope, keep growing. Hey,
I never knew you and Ernie were tight. That's pretty cool. Well,
what I want to do is at some point my
band is almost done. The six seventies six is almost done.
(35:40):
Hopefully it is in the back of my mind just
to get in and take ten all the way down
the Southern Round and end up down in Key West
and just go hang out of his pad a little
bit and soak it up. I mean, I have you
ever been to his house in Key West with all
the cats hanging out and stuff. It's uh, I have
more than they like that. They have different kind of
pause or something. Yeah, one has something exactly, something crazy,
(36:02):
But they just sit there and they're they're not You're
you're not permitted to move them or get upset with them.
They rule the roost. Actually, so I m now that
I become more of a Hemmingway fan. I think at
some point I need to take the van down there,
just hang out and and see where that takes me.
Those thoughts take me. But everything. I follow him on Twitter.
There's a Twitter follow for Heimingway, and there's a lot
(36:23):
of really good nuggets. And I just picked this one
up the other day. Awesome, We'll see you next time, Joe. Alright, brother,
have a great night. The Book of Joe podcast is
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my Heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(36:44):
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.