What happens when you take the quintessential British marriage plot – and put it on a beach, in Australia, with movie stars and a Gen Z heroine? This week, host Danielle Robay explores the Reese’s Book Club Summer YA Pick, Stuck Up and Stupid, with its authors Angourie and Kate Rice. Plus… a very special announcement from a very special friend of the pod.
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Episode Transcript
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Danielle Robay (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi,
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
On today's show, we're announcing the all new Reese's book
Club pick, and we're getting all the juicy details from
the author herself in her first interview on the day
(00:22):
her book is released. Okay, so we can all wish
her a happy pub day together and later, the star
of Mean Girls, the musical movie you may know her
as Katie Herron and Gabrie Rice and her mom Kate
are here to share how they reinvented a classic Jane
Austen novel for a whole new audience. They said it
in Australia with movie stars and a gen Z heroin.
(00:44):
But before we try to make fetch happen, it's time
to announce the August Reese's book Club Pick. So you
all know that I was a fan of Reese's Book
Club before I started hosting this podcast, and part of
what makes this so fun for me is that I
now get the side scoop. So we are going to
talk about everything before everybody else knows about it. And
(01:05):
here's how it works. At the beginning of every month,
I'll announce the brand new Reese's Book Club pick right here,
and then we'll kick things off with something really special,
a release day conversation with the author herself, so she's
coming here first, and then at the end of the month,
we'll bring her back for a full deep dive, meaning
we have all month long to read the book, mark
(01:27):
our favorite passages, use our favorite highlighters, write our favorite
notes in the notes app, and then get ready to
unpack all the juicy details together. And we have the
Reese Witherspoon herself here to announce this month's Reese's Book
Club pick. Hey Reese, Hey everybody, I'm so excited.
Our book club pick this month is Once Upon a
(01:47):
Time in Dollywood by Ashley Jordan.
How exciting, Thank you Reese.
Now.
Ashley Jordan is a debut novelist from Atlanta, and what
a debut it is. If you've ever dreamed of becoming
a right she is an inspiration. She wrote this novel
during the pandemic while working in public health. It started
as fan fiction actually, and it turned into a love
(02:10):
story for the ages. Ashley, Welcome to the club.
Ashley Jordan (02:17):
Thank you so much. This is literally a dream come true.
Thank you so much for having me.
Danielle Robay (02:22):
Well, it feels like a dream for us to have
you too, because your book is officially out in the
world today. So happy pub Day. I'm so excited for you.
How are you celebrating.
Ashley Jordan (02:33):
I'm celebrating by crying a little bit, and then I
can good ways, I'm happy crying. And then I'm having
a launch of it at one of my favorite bookstores,
all the Tropes in Atlanta. I'm so excited for it.
It'll be my first event. So yeah, that'll be a
really great entry into pub day.
Danielle Robay (02:50):
Okay, So one time I had a new job at
NBC and the general manager sent an email very early
in the morning, and it was the launch of a
new show, and he said, you never forget your first
your first kiss, your first concert, your first car. And
so hearing you talk about your first book event, I
(03:10):
almost have chills for you. I have a feeling this
is going to be one of your many books that
you write. Are you going to start some sort of
pub day tradition?
Ashley Jordan (03:22):
Ooh, that would be great, I think, yeah, I think
I would like to do that. I don't know exactly
what it'll be like, definitely want to have launch day
events in my hometown. That would be great. And then
I have to figure out some like fun little thing
that I will do just like just for me. Maybe
I'll go buy the book at a certain place every
time it comes out. I think that'd be cool.
Danielle Robay (03:42):
That's like when presidential candidates vote for themselves.
Ashley Jordan (03:45):
I love it. Yeah, exactly.
Danielle Robay (03:48):
You know.
I'm looking at your cover right now, and obviously the
title is on it. It says once upon a Time
in Dollywood, and the tagline says Love is a roller Coaster.
So I have a little challenge for you if you're game. Okay,
don't sound so scared.
Ashley Jordan (04:05):
I'm not scared.
Danielle Robay (04:06):
Go ahead, Okay, you have the length of a roller
coaster ride at Dollywood to tell us what your book
is about.
Ashley Jordan (04:14):
Yes, sure, okay, yes. So my main character, Eve is
fresh off of a breakup and she is estrange from
her parents as well, and so she is going to
Tennessee to Dollywood basically to go to her grandmother's house.
And supposedly she's there to write. She wants she's a
playwright and she wants to write her next play. And
she's going there. She's pretending she's not having like a
total life meltdown as she is, and so her cover
(04:37):
story gets kind of complicated by the guy next door.
His name is Jamie Gallagher, and you know, he's this handsome,
sunshiny single dad and he really throws all her plans
for a loop. She wanted to be alone and he's like, no,
you don't, and so they kind of fall in like
and then they eventually fall in love. This is a romance,
so that's not a spoiler. And this is all much
(04:58):
to eat sagrin. I would call this a grumpy Shunshine pairing,
but she's the grumpy one, and basically what starts as
the fling really turns into something much deeper. And what
happens is they have a lot of baggage, they have
a lot of scars, and so they are emotionally exhausted
and kind of exhausting. But if they could just sort
of stop overthinking, they can figure out how to have
(05:20):
their happily ever.
Danielle Robay (05:21):
After a Grumpy Sunshine pairing. I love that. That's a
trip that I think I could always get behind.
Ashley Jordan (05:27):
Yes, I think it's my favorite.
Danielle Robay (05:29):
Is there a chapter you had the most fun writing?
Ashley Jordan (05:32):
Ooh, the most fun writing. So I'm a little bit damaged.
So I love writing like the breakups. I love writing
the fights, keeping the angst, like anytime that they're arguing
with each other. Those went by really easily. The fluff
is a little harder for me, But I love a breakup.
Danielle Robay (05:49):
Wait, what do you mean you're damaged?
Ashley Jordan (05:52):
I said what I said? Well, I'm no, I'm not
really damaged. I love anks, That's really it. Like all
of my favorite things about TV shows or anything is
when people are arguing and crying and things like that.
I don't know what that says about me really.
Danielle Robay (06:06):
Wait what does that mean? Like, can you give me
an example? Because my mind went to Real Housewives? But
I know that's not what you're talking about.
Ashley Jordan (06:12):
Oh kind of real housewives. But also, like you know,
I think, I say in my bio like Madman is
my favorite show of all time. So all of the
anything that is like don draper angsty, I'm into, like
absolutely so the parts where people are hurting, I feel like,
and we're exploring the human condition and depression and all
the things that make us cry and make us you know,
(06:35):
have to get through life. Not I love the good
parts of life too, don't get me wrong, but the
hard parts are where the things get interesting.
Danielle Robay (06:41):
You know now that you're sharing that it's that tension
that you also really share in your book. Yes, and
it's not often that I get to speak to an
author before reading their book. Usually i've read the book already.
Are there any breadcrumbs that you left for us in
this story? Are there any small moments or details that
(07:02):
carry more weight than they seem to at first glance?
Asking for a friend, I want to know the easter eggs.
Ashley Jordan (07:11):
Well, there is one easter egg that probably will only
apply to like a handful of people. But this book
actually started as fan fiction and it was for the
Walking Dead. So I left some little breadcrumbs for my
rashwon readers, and I would tell them, if they're listening,
look at the times on the text messages. They mean something.
Danielle Robay (07:30):
I love that. If this book were a mashup of
two TV shows, which would they be.
Ashley Jordan (07:36):
I remember when I pitched it, I said that it
was Insecure meets Emily Henry's be Read. But if I
were to do two TV shows, I would say Insecure
meats Shrinking.
Danielle Robay (07:46):
Probably that's cool. Do you have sort of a pie
in the sky somebody that you really look to and
admire in terms of writing.
Ashley Jordan (07:55):
Oh god, yes, there's so many, I think in this
genre especially I can't not say Kennedy Ryan like she
is the Beyonce of the romance writers. So yeah, she
is my north star. Bolu Babilola one of the Reese's
book Club authors. I discovered her because of you guys,
Beverally Jenkins. Of course, like og romance writer Tony Morrison.
(08:17):
She's the reason that I ever aspired to be a writer,
the reason that I know that black women writers are
incredible like she is God basically, I mean I could
go on like so many black writers that I just
really look up to.
Danielle Robay (08:32):
It's so fun to talk to writers who are fans
of other writers.
Ashley Jordan (08:36):
That's how you write, is you have to read other writers.
Like you can learn craft in a way like the
technicalities of writing, but how to say what you want
to say. You get by absorbing the world, absorbing other writing,
even other forms of media. I think that is really
the way that you become a writer.
Danielle Robay (08:51):
So aside from the fact that your debut novel is
getting published as a Reese's book Club pick, I want
to do like a silent cheered for you as I
say that, what are you most proud of?
Ashley Jordan (09:04):
I think that I did it. I still I'm like,
even a lot of ways, I cannot believe this is
actually happening to me. Even when I wrote it, I
didn't really know what I was going to do with it.
I just wanted to see it get done. And so
doing that, I did that while I went back to school,
and that was very silly, but I did it, and
so I'm proud of that. I'm really proud of. I
think Eave's journey, she goes through a lot, and what
(09:28):
I really wanted people to take away from her journey
is that you don't have to be perfect in order
to be like like, you can be a mess and
you still deserve love. And so I think that her
watching her journey and her being the conduit for that
message is my favorite part about this book. She starts
off and she's, you know, very guarded and very hurt
by the past and even the present, and so seeing
(09:49):
her open up and realize that who she can be
is not who she's been told to be. She doesn't
have to be who she's been told to be, and
so I love that message. I love that message, especially
for women, especially for black women to just understand, hey,
you got this, be you, You're worthy of love regardless.
Danielle Robay (10:06):
There is this mentality that you have to be like
a perfect package before you can find your other puzzle piece. Yes,
and I agree with you. I've never found that to
be the case. It's more about embracing the mess. Was
there a point in your life where that clicked for you,
because I find oftentimes, particularly in creative professions, that the
(10:27):
thing we give the world is the thing we actually
most need to hear.
Ashley Jordan (10:33):
Wow. Yes, yes, for sure. And I think because I
wrote this during the pandemic and I was going through
a lot of personal things. Like I said, I went
back to school partly because I just needed a distraction,
and so yes, I think that I definitely needed to
be reminded that who I am is Okay. Am I
going to cry right now?
Danielle Robay (10:52):
No?
Ashley Jordan (10:54):
But yeah, I think sometimes, especially in relationships, you start
to internalize the criticism instead of you know, the better
parts of it. And so yeah, I think that there
was a point where I definitely needed to remind myself
you're doing fine. If someone isn't on board with that,
that's okay. They weren't for you, and you will find
(11:14):
somebody who is.
Danielle Robay (11:14):
So Yeah, it's a really nice message for all women
to hear over and over and over again.
Ashley Jordan (11:21):
Repeat it. It's a mantra.
Danielle Robay (11:24):
Okay, I'm about to ask you an impossible question because
I know that you're a huge Beyonce fan. Yes, so
which version of Jolene would you pick? Is it Dolly's
or is it Beyonces?
Ashley Jordan (11:37):
This is so hard. I feel like I'm about to
shock myself and say Dolly's version. I love her vulnerability
in that song, and I love Beyonce. I love that
she don't play. But I'm also like, I wish I sorted.
I don't fully wish this, because I totally get her
version and why it works for her, but I wish
(11:59):
we had lean into the vulnerability a little bit more
in her version. I think. So I appreciate Dolly's a
little bit more.
Danielle Robay (12:06):
Can you say more about what you mean in terms
of why the Beyonce version works for her?
Ashley Jordan (12:12):
Well, because she's been on this journey through you know,
we have Lemonade and we know what she went through,
and so at this point, she is no longer like
I'm accepting what you're doing, Like she's just like I'm
not doing this anymore. Stop playing with me, Stop playing
with my man, And that makes total sense for her
as a black woman. She's not going to be like
begging someone to stop playing with her. She's saying, stop,
(12:34):
You're not going to play with me anymore. And so
I totally understand where she's coming from and why she
did it that way. And maybe if it had come earlier,
like maybe Feels on Lemonade, it would have made more
sense for her to do a more dolly version.
Danielle Robay (12:46):
Actually, I'm having so much fun talking to you. I
don't want to let you go, but we are going
to have our full interview again at the end of
the month. So thank you for your time today and
a huge congratulations.
Ashley Jordan (12:58):
Thank you so much. This is amazing. I cannot wait
to talk to you again.
Danielle Robay (13:02):
We'll be right back with the mother daughter duo behind
the young adult Pick of the Summer, Don't Go Anywhere, Hungary, Kate,
Welcome to the club.
Thank you so much, Danielle.
Angourie Rice (13:14):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I am so excited that you're here. I've been prepping
for this interview. You guys have something in common with
an entire castle in France. Okay, you also have something
in common with a Las Vegas high roller wheel and
a homemade jet pack and a life size room of chocolate.
Any guesses about what it could be?
Danielle Robay (13:37):
I love all of those things.
Angourie Rice (13:39):
Were they all invented by mothers and daughters?
Danielle Robay (13:43):
Angourie, you're sort of a genius. It's not quite that,
but the fact that you even caught on is incredible.
So it's all things that were built in thirty days.
And you two wrote this book in thirty days. I
didn't realize that.
Angourie Rice (14:01):
Well, the first draft was thirty days.
Danielle Robay (14:05):
I still have that first draft, all of the notebooks.
It was all handwritten.
So that was my next question. How did you write?
Did you write separately? Did you write together? Because I
kind of imagine you living under the same roof, having
a coffee in the morning together and then going somewhere
fabulous to write sort of.
Kate Rice (14:25):
I mean, we were it was summer holidays for us.
It was during COVID, so we couldn't have any visitors
and we were at our a family beach house that
we have, so there was literally nothing much to do
apart from go for a swim and go for a walk.
And we had already plotted out the whole thing, so
we knew. We had a very very detailed chapter breakdown,
(14:48):
and then every day one of us would write a chapter,
and then the next day we would read the chapter
from the day before and then write the next one. So,
you know, it was actually it was a little bit
like have you done yours yet? Because you know, I'm ready.
You know, it's a bit.
Danielle Robay (15:05):
Like that, And who came up with that plan? How
did you decide to set that in motion?
So the definitely the rule that I had was just
write it and don't cross anything out, And certainly when
you're reading the other person's chapter, you couldn't cross anything out,
but you could add things.
Angourie Rice (15:24):
Yeah, I think the structure worked well. And also just
having someone hold you accountable was really good. We were
also working from a chapter plan that we'd come up
with over the past sort of two months that we'd
been thinking about this idea. We had written this chapter
plan and that helped, so we knew exactly what we
(15:45):
were doing. There was no confusion about what story we
were trying to tell or where it was going.
Danielle Robay (15:51):
That was actually my next question, because it seems easier
in my mind to write nonfiction with somebody than it
is to rape fiction. Just because there's so many nuanced
moments in characters that play out later in the book
that seem like it would all get jumbled when you're
writing with two people. Kate, I see you shaking your head.
(16:13):
How did you navigate that?
Kate Rice (16:15):
Well? We talked through the story a lot, and we
had a genius showing us how to do it. You know,
we had Jane Austen's original texts, so we were able to,
you know, whenever we had a problem, we were able
to go back to that and go, well, what did
she do? How did she do it? And we were
never freeforming. We were always following a very strong thread.
Danielle Robay (16:37):
And Kate, you've been a play right and so you're
not new to writing in any way. Ungari. What things
did you learn from your mom's breath of experience?
Angourie Rice (16:47):
My mom is probably one of the smartest people I know.
I had grown up just like wandering around the house
hearing the keyboard tapping, hearing her talking out dialoge out loud.
So to actually be in that process as opposed to
just like hearing it in the house was so fun
(17:08):
and so nice. I think there were so many things
Kate taught me, but mainly she taught me about just
getting it down without fear, like really just committing, and
the handwriting of the first draft really helped with that. Also,
(17:29):
the advice of people never say what they mean. I
think that was really clever too, especially in dialogue. I
remember there was one scene where I originally wrote it.
The character was really annoyed, and he showed that in
his dialogue and Kate said, let's to rewrite it in
this time. Everything he says is exactly opposite to how
(17:51):
he feels, and that just creates an extra layer of
nuance and reality to characters.
Danielle Robay (17:58):
I think I really like what you just shared, and
I'd never thought about the idea that people don't actually
say what they mean. It's so true. So even though
you two had this roadmap that you set forth, were
there any parts of the plot or the book writing
process that you struggled with?
Angourie Rice (18:17):
Yes, I think that's going to come along in any
writing process. Yeah. I guess if it's too easy, it's
maybe not good enough, or something that you really need
to push yourself to come up with the best possible story.
And in adapting, we already had Jane Austen's framework of
(18:39):
pride and prejudice to work from So that was great
because she'd already thought about a lot of plot things
before us. But in adapting, there are certain things that
don't work for the present day, and that was challenging
to sort of find how can we make these characters
and make the audience feel the same, but in a
(19:01):
context and situation that is completely different.
Danielle Robay (19:05):
So Jane Austen is prolific and writers seem to really
love Jane Austen, but if you ask middle school children,
they sort of side I because they think of Jane
Austen as homework. So I'm going to ask you a
funny question. If you can take Jane Austen out of
(19:25):
the classroom, can you sell her and her work to
someone who was born two hundred and fifty years ago,
to a gen Z reader who's never read Jane Austen?
Why read her for fun?
Kate Rice (19:37):
Part of the answer to that is the book we wrote, Like,
read that and then you'll get into it, I hope.
Look.
I mean, the thing about Jane Austen is that her characters,
because her world is deliberately I mean, you could could
describe it as small, I mean, but it's family and friends,
and that is the world that we still live in.
(19:59):
We still live in family and friends, and the issues
and the characters that come up in her world of
family and friends are so well observed it's really hard
to believe that these characters are not present day characters.
They all feel like people we know, even though they
speak in sort of you know, long words and long sentences,
their motivations and their obsessions. I mean, there's there's a
(20:22):
characters that character in in Northanger Abbey, but you know
how you know your dude might be really into cars
and just talk about cars all the time. There's this
dude who just talks about his carriages in the same way.
Danielle Robay (20:38):
That's funny.
Kate Rice (20:39):
Yeah, I would pitch it too, as like if someone
between the ages of twelve and sixteen came to me
and said, why should I read this and how should
I read it? I would sort of say that treat
it like a fantasy book, because young readers are so
good at understanding new worlds, at picking up on, you know,
(21:02):
these whole complex magic systems. And really the difficulty with
Jane Austen is the language and the understanding of the
social customs. I think that's what the barrier is. But
if you treat that like learning a fantasy world, understanding
the vocabulary, how people talk to each other, address each other.
I think that's your sort of gateway and your access
(21:24):
to this really wonderful, rich story.
Danielle Robay (21:26):
Kate, what do you think makes Jane Austen's work so
perfect for modern remixes?
Kate Rice (21:31):
I think in a way we are all still living
in Jane Austen's kind of Well, she was just the
first one to really really examine it and with a very,
very genius. I I think too, because she's she is
a real champion of of clever women, and you know,
we're in the age of women really coming into their
(21:54):
own in a way and telling in telling their stories.
So I suspect that's got something to do with why,
particularly now kind of in the last twenty to thirty years,
that she's had such a big, big revival.
Danielle Robay (22:06):
Well as a foil to clever women, there's also some
men that behave badly in Jane Austen stories. Mister Darcy
in Pride and Prejudice, he has his moments. He insults
Elizabeth to her face. He's a little emotionally clueless at
the beginning. His first proposal is definitely insulting. What kind
(22:29):
of behaviors did you have to change for a gen
Z audience in order for a mister Darcy type character
to resonate.
Kate Rice (22:37):
I mean everything that we had to change, like so
much of it just translated directly really. But the things
we had to change were around women as property because
they couldn't, you know, women couldn't earn their own money.
They were part of a family headed by a man.
So that was kind of the main thing, and that
did have to be reflected very much with our mister
(22:59):
Darcy journey. Well, because you know, in Prime and Prejudice
he swoops in and saves the day and for Elizabeth,
and we wanted to maintain that feeling of him being
perfect for her without her being completely disempowered. So she
now is in our version, she is much more empowered
and she does, to a certain extent, save.
(23:20):
Her own day.
Danielle Robay (23:21):
Yeah.
Angourie Rice (23:21):
I think too that mister Darcy is someone who he's
not particularly charming. He's quite awkward, and it's about sort
of hitting that awkwardness. What does awkwardness today mean? Is
it the same as it was two hundred and something
years ago or is it slightly different? Also? I think
(23:45):
maybe for Jane Austin, it was really easy for mister Darcy,
or not easy, but there were so many social rules
around how to behave that I think it's quite pointed
in her novels when people don't follow those social rules
and what that says about who they are. So I
think in our version two, when we might consider our contemporary,
(24:09):
our day to day having less social rules, it's about
sort of showing how someone can still sort of operate
within within society, either breaking those rules or bending them,
and what that says about their character.
Danielle Robay (24:24):
Angourie, this isn't the first classic adaptation that you've been
a part of. I didn't realize this Mean Girls is
a retelling of Julius Caesar, and so did you. You're
looking like you didn't know that either.
Angourie Rice (24:39):
I didn't. I didn't know that. I know it makes
sense though it does, doesn't it? Well?
Danielle Robay (24:44):
When I learned it, I thought, Okay, Gretchen Wiener's monologue
saying we should all just.
Angourie Rice (24:50):
Jill Caesar stab Caesar. Yeah, we should not Sta, She's like,
makes much more. Yeah, Bruce is smarter. Didn't see Brunce
is work?
Danielle Robay (24:58):
Yeah, Oh my god, please just recite for the rest
of the podcast. That was fun.
Angourie Rice (25:07):
I wish, I wish I had it all?
Danielle Robay (25:10):
Do you still do you ever think of Katie Heron's lines?
Are they to to like the tip of your tongue?
Angourie Rice (25:15):
Ever? No more after playing her than before, like even
like before I got that job. Mean Girls was always
a part of my vocabulary. I think that's true for
a lot of people of who grew up with that movie.
(25:36):
It's just it's just in your vocabulary, and me playing
her as I don't know, it's maybe made me actually
say that her lines and lines from the movie less
because I feel a bit like, I don't know, calling
attention to the fact, and I don't want to do that.
Danielle Robay (25:56):
I know you're so humble. My like claim to infamy
is that Tina Fey wrote the movie about my high
school and we had all those lunch tables. She was
so spot on with almost it was very funny. So
Jane Austin really was so prolific. She had drafts of
(26:16):
Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility all written by
the time she was twenty three years old. And she's
also known for coining a bunch of these phrases that
we still use today, like dinner party or dirt cheap.
If anybody's ever said dog tired, you can thank Jane Austen.
I feel like some of these phrases could have been
(26:36):
gen Z slang at the time. Are there any gen
Z slang terms that you think will stand the test
of time? And Gari, do you use anything like riz
or crash out or skivity, anything that's going to sustain
and endure.
Angourie Rice (26:52):
It's so funny you say that because I was reading
a book trying to remember which book it was, but
it was a book from the mid twentyth century. It
would have been from like maybe the forties or fifties
that use the term crash out in the exact same
way that we are using it today. What And I
read that, I thought, this has just come back around.
(27:14):
That's so interesting. So I wish I could. I wish
I could cite my source, but I don't remember. I
just remember thinking that, Yeah, I think, I mean, I
don't think everything will stick around, but I think things
do come back around. So I don't know if the
slang will necessarily be present forever, but it will it
will return. I mean, that's something interesting that we wanted
(27:35):
to do with our book too, is we made it
sort of a conscious effort to not include any slang
because we were worried about it aging. So we wanted
to create sort of new things, new insults, new terms
of phrase that were not slang, that we're not swearing,
that could sort of exist in our little fictional world.
(27:58):
Clueless did that mean? Girls did that with fetch as well.
And then also when I think about when I think
about Jane Austen, I'm sure there are words in there
that were slang at the time that we don't even recognize.
But also all the all of those phrases she coined
which I didn't even know about, but you know, that's
that's her also forging ahead. That's her not using the
(28:20):
slang at the time. That's her saying, we don't have
a word for this or a phrase for this, let
me describe it this way, which I love.
Danielle Robay (28:27):
Do you have any favorites from your book?
Angourie Rice (28:30):
Ah, there's something in there about him having as many
arms as an octopus and just as slimy or something
that's cute.
Kate Rice (28:38):
Did that make it in Also, because we as well
as not using any slang, we also didn't want to swear.
We wanted to be able to say, there's you know
there's no swearing, so yes, we talk about Dorian having
a stick up his potato.
Angourie Rice (28:51):
Yeah, stick up his potato. I think that's hilarious. Still,
that's the thing. It's like, I don't care if nobody
else likes it. That makes me laugh. Well.
Danielle Robay (29:08):
Also, one of my really good friends is Australian and
she has the funniest terminology. I just asked her to
describe things to me, because you guys have all these
funny terms that we don't have in America, and so
I feel like there must be so many in the
book that we don't even know that are inspired by
(29:28):
some Australian terms.
Kate Rice (29:32):
You've got tickets on yourself?
Danielle Robay (29:33):
What does that mean?
That means you think you're pretty good. You've got tickets,
you know, I don't know, like you're for sale or something.
I love that.
That's a good one, Kate, and wake up Australia. It means,
you know, stop stop dreaming, snap out of it, wake
up Australia.
Angourie Rice (29:52):
There were also there was one in there. I don't
remember what it was, but I think I said, I
don't even know what that is. You have to take
that out. That's funny. My grandfather is quite well known
for making up phrases.
Danielle Robay (30:04):
Yeah wait really ah, yeah, that's that's true. I grew
up with him saying all sorts of bizarre things.
Angourie Rice (30:12):
I just find I find nothing funnier than someone bungling
a turn of phrase, so saying like, oh, you know,
we'll we'll jump off that bridge when we get to it,
which is when we say, or like whatever floats your
goat or something. I just find that I find that
so funny.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Whatever floats your goat is really good.
Angourie Rice (30:34):
Yeah.
Danielle Robay (30:36):
So Jane Austen was also known for illuminating little corners
of our social and cultural lives the way you described
And Gary, what did you want to illuminate in your
own retelling?
Angourie Rice (30:49):
Well, I think initially we were thinking about how do
we translate mister Darcy who is young and independent and
rich today, and that's famous people, movie stars, influencers, musicians,
so I think, And so that came as an easy
answer to us for two reasons. It really matched Jane
(31:10):
Austen's sort of framework of someone who's wealthy and independent,
But it also matched our special experience and maybe a
unique perspective that we had to tell as me being
an actor and Kate having chaperoned me until I was eighteen,
so we both had a sort of a perspective on
(31:33):
Hollywood and the industry that we wanted to talk about
because I think also in creating a character who had
gotten famous at a young age was interesting to us
and sort of talking about what fame means for someone
and what it does to someone, and also how drastically
(31:55):
it affects how you interact with the world, and we
see that in Dorian and his friends, and we wanted
to explore that.
Kate Rice (32:04):
I think for me, I was also really interested in
the in legacy in mothers and daughter's families. Why do
we culturally hold on to certain things? What are we
ready to let go? Are we destined to repeat the
mistakes of our parents?
You know?
So this this is a retelling, but it is also
the next generation, which was very important to me. I
(32:27):
wanted it to be about what happens next in the
Prime and Prejudice story.
Danielle Robay (32:31):
It feels particularly apropos writing this as a mother daughter
do O, Kate, did you come to your own conclusion
about any of those questions?
Yes, well, I mean sort of. My hope is that
each generation gets a bit better Like that, if you're
conscious about it, Like the default position is always going
to be to fall back into whatever you grew up with,
(32:53):
but the conscious decision to improve is something that we
can all do and go Okay. It was like this
for my mom. My mom was like this, I'm not
going to do that. I'm going to do this. And
that's in the book and I hope in our lives.
Kate Rice (33:09):
It's really powerful. And I like the idea of what
you want to keep and what you want to change,
because I think we all feel that about our family
legacy in some way. So Stuck Up in Stupid is
marketed as a book for a generation of teens who
are definitely not looking for love. I have to tell you,
I was astounded reading that. What do you mean they
(33:32):
are not looking for love? What is so unique about
gen Z's approach to romance? Please school this millennial? I
am confused.
Angourie Rice (33:43):
Oh so, I think that's a particular reference to Lily,
our main character. She's not looking for love, and I
think that's that is reflective of how she feels about
her mother and how her mother has, throughout her whole
life sort of depended on men and romance to make
(34:06):
her feel happy and validated.
But I don't know.
Maybe, I mean, I don't know if I can speak
to everyone born two thousand and one like me, But
maybe there's this sort of idea of like, maybe there's
a healthy sort of independence, like I don't need this
(34:26):
to complete me. I am whole as myself. A relationship
is nice, but I can be on my own in
this world and be okay with.
Kate Rice (34:36):
That, which is just which makes me so happy because
I spent my entire teenage years and twenties going where's
the one who's going to complete me? And I was
literally writing that in my diary, going where's the guy?
Where is my you know and your other half?
Where is my other half? I'm useless, I'm nothing without
a man like I was very much of that mindset,
(34:58):
And it makes me so happy that my two beautiful
gen Z children don't feel that and feel quite content
in themselves and are happy to bring that to a
relationship if it happens, and if it doesn't, that's also fine.
Danielle Robay (35:15):
That's really cool that you feel that way, Kate. I
think a lot of parents still want their kids. They
put a lot of pressure on their kids to find love.
Do you think that our perception of love has changed.
Do you see it differently within your daughters? And I
know you just mentioned that they feel whole, but do
you see how they go about things? Is it different
(35:36):
than you did?
Well, that aspect is certainly different because I was always
looking constantly, So it's great that they're not all the time.
That's good. I don't know, maybe, I certainly think. I mean,
the other thing that's really changed attitudes to love, obviously
is the whole internet thing that now it seems it's
(35:57):
kind of a bit uncool to ask somebody out just
out of the because you don't know if they're looking,
because they're not on an app declaring their lookiness. But
obviously I can't really speak about any of that, but
that is the big shift.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
From when I was young and Gari, do you see
it with your friends? Are there? Do you have certain
friends who are like a little bit more obsessive about
finding love than others or do you find it truly
that it's a generational difference.
Danielle Robay (36:26):
Hmmm.
Angourie Rice (36:26):
I guess it changes from person to person. I think
I gravitate towards people in my life who make me
feel happy and special and excited about being a person
in the world, and so I think that means I'm
gravitating towards people who feel that way about themselves as well. Like,
(36:48):
that's something I really admire about so many of my friends,
is how how they show me independence and power and like,
my friends make me want to be a better person.
And I think that is that's linked to Yeah, this
sort of strength in independence and better this for yourself
(37:13):
and your community. I think that's the other things. It's
I feel really empowered by my friends to sort of
create a strong sense of community and that if I
don't need anything, I just can ask.
Danielle Robay (37:27):
Yeah, that's really beautiful at your age. I don't know
that I felt like that until I was in my
thirties with my girlfriends. So I think that's pretty cool.
(37:50):
Will the two of you be writing another book together?
Angourie Rice (37:53):
Yes?
Danielle Robay (37:54):
You know what's funny? Is Kate not at a quick yes,
and I didn't hear anything from Angourie.
Angourie Rice (38:00):
Yes, Yes, the answer is yes. I always get I'm
always like thinking about the thing after that, so yes,
absolutely and also maybe yes again but not sure but.
Danielle Robay (38:15):
Yes cool, So yes times two potentially.
Kate Rice (38:18):
Well we do. Yes, there is one very much in
the works, and then there's another one that we're still kind.
Angourie Rice (38:24):
Of yeah, but as per our rule, we cannot say
anything until it's done.
Danielle Robay (38:31):
You know what, I'm not going to fight you on that.
That's totally fair, and I leve a full circle moment
in an interview, so I'll take it. I do have
one question about it, which is is it a classic retelling? Again?
Is there a story you would want to adapt or
is it an original work?
Kate Rice (38:49):
Well, there is another classic that I do want to adapt,
but with Angourie, no, we're doing new things.
Angourie Rice (38:57):
Yes much also for young for young readers, or a
sort of yeah, this similar audience to Stuck up and Stupid,
but different story, different world.
Danielle Robay (39:07):
I love asking our guests what they've bookmarked this week.
It could be a weird fact, a fun quote, something
you've saved on Instagram, something you texted your best friend about.
What have each of you bookmarked?
Angourie Rice (39:20):
Well? I have this book that I just finished called
Saplings by Noel Stretfield, and I have been bookmarking this
a lot and I just finished it last night. Because
there are so many fabulous terms of phrase in here, like,
for example, this, I feel this is an occasion for
masterly inactivity. Just kind of loved that, Like, what an
(39:42):
elegant way of saying, leave it alone, don't do anything.
I also liked this one. Missus Oliver and her relations
seemed to exist on the spin of a coin. I
really liked that everything that happened to them was caused
by passing under ladders, meeting black cats, tripping over dropped nails,
and the arrangement of tea leaves in their teacups. I
(40:04):
love that idea that if your life is dictated by luck,
you're living on the on the spin of a coin.
But yeah, this is a book from nineteen forty five.
Nol Stretfield wrote Ballet Shoes, which was a classic I
read and loved growing up. It's about a family who
is dealing with the fallout of World War Two and
sort of how that changes a family in England. And
(40:26):
it was published just towards the end of World War two,
so when she was writing this she didn't know when
the war would end. So it's a really interesting perspective
on children dealing with the war. So that's my book
mark thing.
Danielle Robay (40:44):
Oh, Angourie, that could be one of the best ones
we've had. That is so good and I loved I
love that turn of phrase too. It is it feels
so precise. Yes.
Angourie Rice (40:56):
Yes, there were a lot of things in this book
that I loved, and I like collecting sentences like that
and writing them down and not copying them or stealing
them hopefully ever, but just sort of just that creativity
of thinking about something in a new way.
Danielle Robay (41:14):
Yeah. Do you write them in your phone or do
you have a notebook?
Angourie Rice (41:18):
I have a little Yeah, I have a little notebook
that I am writing my writing quotes down in.
Kate Rice (41:27):
I have mine here. This is my folder of quotes.
Danielle Robay (41:31):
Oh, Kate, okay, let us know what have you bookmarked.
Kate Rice (41:35):
When I read a book. Don't tell my librarians from
high school or primary school, but I do, dog-ear them.
I literally book mark the pages where I find things
that I love, and then I cook them and I
put them in here in alphabetical order so that you
can find them.
But the ones in alphabetical order, how do you even
organize that?
Angourie Rice (41:54):
Yeah? Alphabetical order of the author?
Kate Rice (41:56):
My author? Yes, so. My favorite most recent ones are
from My Friends by Frederick Bachman, which is out now.
All about art. Great art is a small break from
human despair, and art helped me cope because art is
a fragile magic, just like love. And that's humanity's only
(42:19):
defense against death. That we create and paint and dance
and fall in love. That's our rebellion against eternity.
Angourie Rice (42:27):
Do you know? I also read that book and I
wrote that quote down in my book too.
Danielle Robay (42:34):
That's so cute, Like mother like daughter. Why did it
strike both of you?
Kate Rice (42:40):
I mean, for me, art is a bit like a religion.
Art is what gives my life meaning in many ways.
It's how I process everything and makes it more than
just you know, waking up and getting through the day.
It connects us, It connects us to each other, and
it connects us to thing bigger than ourselves. So art
(43:02):
is everything for me, and to have it explained so
beautifully in such a short, beautiful sense, yeah.
Angourie Rice (43:11):
I think also for me art like it functions on
so many levels. It can be as simple as if
I feel in my head and sad about anything, Art
is the best way to sort of get outside of yourself,
to create is to It's sort of like gratitude is
(43:33):
the best killer of jealousy or despair. It sort of
functions in that same way for me, And then it
can also be as grand as like art is what
we leave behind, like that's our legacy when we think
about how we connect to how we connect to people
in the early eighteen hundreds where reading Jane Austen, that
(43:53):
is how we are connecting to people through history, and
so it feels so big in that sense.
Danielle Robay (44:00):
What was it like to grow up with a mom
who has such reverence for art?
Angourie Rice (44:06):
It was amazing. I mean, I feel so fortunate for
so many things. Like if I were to pinpoint something
that I think illustrates how I grew up, maybe, or like, oh,
now you're worried, now you're nervous, don't be worried, don't
be worried. So I grew up with a lot of
(44:26):
books in the house. We have an amazing bookshelf, and
my parents would read to me, and they each had
their own stories that they liked reading. So my dad
liked reading us more sort of adventure stories and stories
from his childhood about animals going on adventures, and that
was fun. I mean, Kate had some favorites as well.
(44:48):
But I remember I remember Kate reading us The Happy Prince,
which is a short story by Oscar Wilde, And she's
laughing now because she does what I was about to say.
But Kate can't read that book without crying. So I
remember listening to this story as a kid and being
(45:10):
so moved by it because it's a really sad story,
and also my mum being moved by it and crying
and sort of just seeing that connection between like what
stories can make you feel and what they're thought. They're
there to make you empathize, They're they're to make you
(45:31):
connect with the world, and yeah, just showing emotion and
response to art is natural and a beautiful, wonderful thing.
Is that a good story about you?
Kate Rice (45:40):
That's beautiful, that's beautiful. I thought you were going to
say something along the lines of you know that I
wouldn't let you have my little pony stories because I
would say it's merchandise.
Angourie Rice (45:52):
It's not. I love.
Danielle Robay (45:57):
That's a difference, Kate, there is I do.
Angourie Rice (46:03):
I do remember, and I think this is this is
actually very clever, and now I appreciate it. I remember
you saying I'm not going to get you much because
then you become free advertising for whatever thing you love.
And I think that's very that's very smart.
Danielle Robay (46:17):
It is. I really really appreciate and admire your reverence
for art, both of you, So thank you for creating
it and thanks for sharing some of your art with
me today. Okay, Well, we're going to end on something fun,
which is called speed read. Here's how it works. We
(46:38):
put one hundred and twenty seconds on the clock, sixty
seconds for each of you, and we're going to see
just how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through.
So I'm going to do it popcorn style. Kate, I'll
ask you a question, and then Angari, I'll ask you
the question. Are you ready?
Angourie Rice (46:55):
Yes? Yes?
Danielle Robay (46:56):
Okay?
Three?
Angourie Rice (46:58):
Two?
Speaker 1 (46:58):
One? Kate, what's one literary trope you would ban forever?
Kate Rice (47:05):
She led out a breath that she didn't know she
was holding.
Danielle Robay (47:09):
Nixt Angourie.
One that you'll defend with your life.
Angourie Rice (47:14):
Enemies to lovers always.
Danielle Robay (47:17):
Agreed, Kate. What's a book that you wish you had written?
Kate Rice (47:23):
Fortunes of Richard Marney by Henry Handel Richardson Angourie.
Danielle Robay (47:27):
What is your favorite book to recommend?
Angourie Rice (47:30):
Ooh, I love recommending depends what it's for, but I
love recommending Station eleven by Emily St. John Mandel because
it's about a pandemic, but it's also about art and
the resistance of art.
Danielle Robay (47:42):
Ooh, I have to read that Okay, your favorite page
to screen adaptation Kate.
Kate Rice (47:47):
Oh nineteen ninety four Pride and Prejudice, Angourie.
Angourie Rice (47:51):
How about you that I would say the same, But
I also love Clueless as an adaptation of Emma by
Jane Austen.
Danielle Robay (47:59):
Okay, what is your favorite Jane Austen work.
Kate Rice (48:03):
Pride and Prejudice and also Emma Hungary.
Danielle Robay (48:06):
How about you the same, Kate. What book do you
wish you could read for the first.
Kate Rice (48:12):
Time again alone in Berlin by Hans Falada Hungary.
Angourie Rice (48:16):
Which fictional character do you secretly think you're most like Emma?
Emma from Emma by Jane Austen Unfortunately if you've read it. Yeah, yes, unfortunately, Kate.
Danielle Robay (48:30):
If you could vicariously live through one fictional character, who
would that be?
Kate Rice (48:36):
Oh, Elizabeth Bennett once she becomes missus Darcy, She's got
a good.
Danielle Robay (48:42):
Life, Angourie. Last question, what book shaped the way you
see the world? Oh?
Angourie Rice (48:51):
My gosh, every book, every book I've ever read. Is
that an answer?
Danielle Robay (48:56):
No, it's true, that is an answer. I love it. Guys.
This was really fun.
Thank you for this, but thank you so much. Thank
you so much guys for having us. This is lovely.
Kate Rice (49:11):
Yes, thank you thank you.
Danielle Robay (49:17):
If you want a little bit more from us, come
hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club
on Instagram, serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes
magic and I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come say
hi and df me and if you want to go
nineties on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open,
so call now at one five zero one two nine
(49:39):
one three three seven nine. That's one five oh one
two nine one three three seven nine. Share your literary
hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or
let us know what you think about the episode you
just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself
in our next episode, So don't be shy. Give us
(50:02):
a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked
by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast
or wherever you get your shows. Until then see in
the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello, Sunshine
and iHeart Podcasts. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and
me Danielle Robey. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our
(50:26):
producers are Maddy Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleide and Darbi Masters.
Our production assistant is Avery Loftis. Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureene
Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello, Sunshine,
Olga Cominwa. Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers
(50:49):
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Pellizola is our showrunner.
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi,
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
On today's show, we're announcing the all new Reese's book
Club pick, and we're getting all the juicy details from
the author herself in her first interview on the day
(00:22):
her book is released. Okay, so we can all wish
her a happy pub day together and later, the star
of Mean Girls, the musical movie you may know her
as Katie Herron and Gabrie Rice and her mom Kate
are here to share how they reinvented a classic Jane
Austen novel for a whole new audience. They said it
in Australia with movie stars and a gen Z heroin.
(00:44):
But before we try to make fetch happen, it's time
to announce the August Reese's book Club Pick. So you
all know that I was a fan of Reese's Book
Club before I started hosting this podcast, and part of
what makes this so fun for me is that I
now get the side scoop. So we are going to
talk about everything before everybody else knows about it. And
(01:05):
here's how it works. At the beginning of every month,
I'll announce the brand new Reese's Book Club pick right here,
and then we'll kick things off with something really special,
a release day conversation with the author herself, so she's
coming here first, and then at the end of the month,
we'll bring her back for a full deep dive, meaning
we have all month long to read the book, mark
(01:27):
our favorite passages, use our favorite highlighters, write our favorite
notes in the notes app, and then get ready to
unpack all the juicy details together. And we have the
Reese Witherspoon herself here to announce this month's Reese's Book
Club pick. Hey Reese, Hey everybody, I'm so excited.
Our book club pick this month is Once Upon a
(01:47):
Time in Dollywood by Ashley Jordan.
How exciting, Thank you Reese.
Now.
Ashley Jordan is a debut novelist from Atlanta, and what
a debut it is. If you've ever dreamed of becoming
a right she is an inspiration. She wrote this novel
during the pandemic while working in public health. It started
as fan fiction actually, and it turned into a love
(02:10):
story for the ages. Ashley, Welcome to the club.
Ashley Jordan (02:17):
Thank you so much. This is literally a dream come true.
Thank you so much for having me.
Danielle Robay (02:22):
Well, it feels like a dream for us to have
you too, because your book is officially out in the
world today. So happy pub Day. I'm so excited for you.
How are you celebrating.
Ashley Jordan (02:33):
I'm celebrating by crying a little bit, and then I
can good ways, I'm happy crying. And then I'm having
a launch of it at one of my favorite bookstores,
all the Tropes in Atlanta. I'm so excited for it.
It'll be my first event. So yeah, that'll be a
really great entry into pub day.
Danielle Robay (02:50):
Okay, So one time I had a new job at
NBC and the general manager sent an email very early
in the morning, and it was the launch of a
new show, and he said, you never forget your first
your first kiss, your first concert, your first car. And
so hearing you talk about your first book event, I
(03:10):
almost have chills for you. I have a feeling this
is going to be one of your many books that
you write. Are you going to start some sort of
pub day tradition?
Ashley Jordan (03:22):
Ooh, that would be great, I think, yeah, I think
I would like to do that. I don't know exactly
what it'll be like, definitely want to have launch day
events in my hometown. That would be great. And then
I have to figure out some like fun little thing
that I will do just like just for me. Maybe
I'll go buy the book at a certain place every
time it comes out. I think that'd be cool.
Danielle Robay (03:42):
That's like when presidential candidates vote for themselves.
Ashley Jordan (03:45):
I love it. Yeah, exactly.
Danielle Robay (03:48):
You know.
I'm looking at your cover right now, and obviously the
title is on it. It says once upon a Time
in Dollywood, and the tagline says Love is a roller Coaster.
So I have a little challenge for you if you're game. Okay,
don't sound so scared.
Ashley Jordan (04:05):
I'm not scared.
Danielle Robay (04:06):
Go ahead, Okay, you have the length of a roller
coaster ride at Dollywood to tell us what your book
is about.
Ashley Jordan (04:14):
Yes, sure, okay, yes. So my main character, Eve is
fresh off of a breakup and she is estrange from
her parents as well, and so she is going to
Tennessee to Dollywood basically to go to her grandmother's house.
And supposedly she's there to write. She wants she's a
playwright and she wants to write her next play. And
she's going there. She's pretending she's not having like a
total life meltdown as she is, and so her cover
(04:37):
story gets kind of complicated by the guy next door.
His name is Jamie Gallagher, and you know, he's this handsome,
sunshiny single dad and he really throws all her plans
for a loop. She wanted to be alone and he's like, no,
you don't, and so they kind of fall in like
and then they eventually fall in love. This is a romance,
so that's not a spoiler. And this is all much
(04:58):
to eat sagrin. I would call this a grumpy Shunshine pairing,
but she's the grumpy one, and basically what starts as
the fling really turns into something much deeper. And what
happens is they have a lot of baggage, they have
a lot of scars, and so they are emotionally exhausted
and kind of exhausting. But if they could just sort
of stop overthinking, they can figure out how to have
(05:20):
their happily ever.
Danielle Robay (05:21):
After a Grumpy Sunshine pairing. I love that. That's a
trip that I think I could always get behind.
Ashley Jordan (05:27):
Yes, I think it's my favorite.
Danielle Robay (05:29):
Is there a chapter you had the most fun writing?
Ashley Jordan (05:32):
Ooh, the most fun writing. So I'm a little bit damaged.
So I love writing like the breakups. I love writing
the fights, keeping the angst, like anytime that they're arguing
with each other. Those went by really easily. The fluff
is a little harder for me, But I love a breakup.
Danielle Robay (05:49):
Wait, what do you mean you're damaged?
Ashley Jordan (05:52):
I said what I said? Well, I'm no, I'm not
really damaged. I love anks, That's really it. Like all
of my favorite things about TV shows or anything is
when people are arguing and crying and things like that.
I don't know what that says about me really.
Danielle Robay (06:06):
Wait what does that mean? Like, can you give me
an example? Because my mind went to Real Housewives? But
I know that's not what you're talking about.
Ashley Jordan (06:12):
Oh kind of real housewives. But also, like you know,
I think, I say in my bio like Madman is
my favorite show of all time. So all of the
anything that is like don draper angsty, I'm into, like
absolutely so the parts where people are hurting, I feel like,
and we're exploring the human condition and depression and all
the things that make us cry and make us you know,
(06:35):
have to get through life. Not I love the good
parts of life too, don't get me wrong, but the
hard parts are where the things get interesting.
Danielle Robay (06:41):
You know now that you're sharing that it's that tension
that you also really share in your book. Yes, and
it's not often that I get to speak to an
author before reading their book. Usually i've read the book already.
Are there any breadcrumbs that you left for us in
this story? Are there any small moments or details that
(07:02):
carry more weight than they seem to at first glance?
Asking for a friend, I want to know the easter eggs.
Ashley Jordan (07:11):
Well, there is one easter egg that probably will only
apply to like a handful of people. But this book
actually started as fan fiction and it was for the
Walking Dead. So I left some little breadcrumbs for my
rashwon readers, and I would tell them, if they're listening,
look at the times on the text messages. They mean something.
Danielle Robay (07:30):
I love that. If this book were a mashup of
two TV shows, which would they be.
Ashley Jordan (07:36):
I remember when I pitched it, I said that it
was Insecure meets Emily Henry's be Read. But if I
were to do two TV shows, I would say Insecure
meats Shrinking.
Danielle Robay (07:46):
Probably that's cool. Do you have sort of a pie
in the sky somebody that you really look to and
admire in terms of writing.
Ashley Jordan (07:55):
Oh god, yes, there's so many, I think in this
genre especially I can't not say Kennedy Ryan like she
is the Beyonce of the romance writers. So yeah, she
is my north star. Bolu Babilola one of the Reese's
book Club authors. I discovered her because of you guys,
Beverally Jenkins. Of course, like og romance writer Tony Morrison.
(08:17):
She's the reason that I ever aspired to be a writer,
the reason that I know that black women writers are
incredible like she is God basically, I mean I could
go on like so many black writers that I just
really look up to.
Danielle Robay (08:32):
It's so fun to talk to writers who are fans
of other writers.
Ashley Jordan (08:36):
That's how you write, is you have to read other writers.
Like you can learn craft in a way like the
technicalities of writing, but how to say what you want
to say. You get by absorbing the world, absorbing other writing,
even other forms of media. I think that is really
the way that you become a writer.
Danielle Robay (08:51):
So aside from the fact that your debut novel is
getting published as a Reese's book Club pick, I want
to do like a silent cheered for you as I
say that, what are you most proud of?
Ashley Jordan (09:04):
I think that I did it. I still I'm like,
even a lot of ways, I cannot believe this is
actually happening to me. Even when I wrote it, I
didn't really know what I was going to do with it.
I just wanted to see it get done. And so
doing that, I did that while I went back to school,
and that was very silly, but I did it, and
so I'm proud of that. I'm really proud of. I
think Eave's journey, she goes through a lot, and what
(09:28):
I really wanted people to take away from her journey
is that you don't have to be perfect in order
to be like like, you can be a mess and
you still deserve love. And so I think that her
watching her journey and her being the conduit for that
message is my favorite part about this book. She starts
off and she's, you know, very guarded and very hurt
by the past and even the present, and so seeing
(09:49):
her open up and realize that who she can be
is not who she's been told to be. She doesn't
have to be who she's been told to be, and
so I love that message. I love that message, especially
for women, especially for black women to just understand, hey,
you got this, be you, You're worthy of love regardless.
Danielle Robay (10:06):
There is this mentality that you have to be like
a perfect package before you can find your other puzzle piece. Yes,
and I agree with you. I've never found that to
be the case. It's more about embracing the mess. Was
there a point in your life where that clicked for you,
because I find oftentimes, particularly in creative professions, that the
(10:27):
thing we give the world is the thing we actually
most need to hear.
Ashley Jordan (10:33):
Wow. Yes, yes, for sure. And I think because I
wrote this during the pandemic and I was going through
a lot of personal things. Like I said, I went
back to school partly because I just needed a distraction,
and so yes, I think that I definitely needed to
be reminded that who I am is Okay. Am I
going to cry right now?
Danielle Robay (10:52):
No?
Ashley Jordan (10:54):
But yeah, I think sometimes, especially in relationships, you start
to internalize the criticism instead of you know, the better
parts of it. And so yeah, I think that there
was a point where I definitely needed to remind myself
you're doing fine. If someone isn't on board with that,
that's okay. They weren't for you, and you will find
(11:14):
somebody who is.
Danielle Robay (11:14):
So Yeah, it's a really nice message for all women
to hear over and over and over again.
Ashley Jordan (11:21):
Repeat it. It's a mantra.
Danielle Robay (11:24):
Okay, I'm about to ask you an impossible question because
I know that you're a huge Beyonce fan. Yes, so
which version of Jolene would you pick? Is it Dolly's
or is it Beyonces?
Ashley Jordan (11:37):
This is so hard. I feel like I'm about to
shock myself and say Dolly's version. I love her vulnerability
in that song, and I love Beyonce. I love that
she don't play. But I'm also like, I wish I sorted.
I don't fully wish this, because I totally get her
version and why it works for her, but I wish
(11:59):
we had lean into the vulnerability a little bit more
in her version. I think. So I appreciate Dolly's a
little bit more.
Danielle Robay (12:06):
Can you say more about what you mean in terms
of why the Beyonce version works for her?
Ashley Jordan (12:12):
Well, because she's been on this journey through you know,
we have Lemonade and we know what she went through,
and so at this point, she is no longer like
I'm accepting what you're doing, Like she's just like I'm
not doing this anymore. Stop playing with me, Stop playing
with my man, And that makes total sense for her
as a black woman. She's not going to be like
begging someone to stop playing with her. She's saying, stop,
(12:34):
You're not going to play with me anymore. And so
I totally understand where she's coming from and why she
did it that way. And maybe if it had come earlier,
like maybe Feels on Lemonade, it would have made more
sense for her to do a more dolly version.
Danielle Robay (12:46):
Actually, I'm having so much fun talking to you. I
don't want to let you go, but we are going
to have our full interview again at the end of
the month. So thank you for your time today and
a huge congratulations.
Ashley Jordan (12:58):
Thank you so much. This is amazing. I cannot wait
to talk to you again.
Danielle Robay (13:02):
We'll be right back with the mother daughter duo behind
the young adult Pick of the Summer, Don't Go Anywhere, Hungary, Kate,
Welcome to the club.
Thank you so much, Danielle.
Angourie Rice (13:14):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I am so excited that you're here. I've been prepping
for this interview. You guys have something in common with
an entire castle in France. Okay, you also have something
in common with a Las Vegas high roller wheel and
a homemade jet pack and a life size room of chocolate.
Any guesses about what it could be?
Danielle Robay (13:37):
I love all of those things.
Angourie Rice (13:39):
Were they all invented by mothers and daughters?
Danielle Robay (13:43):
Angourie, you're sort of a genius. It's not quite that,
but the fact that you even caught on is incredible.
So it's all things that were built in thirty days.
And you two wrote this book in thirty days. I
didn't realize that.
Angourie Rice (14:01):
Well, the first draft was thirty days.
Danielle Robay (14:05):
I still have that first draft, all of the notebooks.
It was all handwritten.
So that was my next question. How did you write?
Did you write separately? Did you write together? Because I
kind of imagine you living under the same roof, having
a coffee in the morning together and then going somewhere
fabulous to write sort of.
Kate Rice (14:25):
I mean, we were it was summer holidays for us.
It was during COVID, so we couldn't have any visitors
and we were at our a family beach house that
we have, so there was literally nothing much to do
apart from go for a swim and go for a walk.
And we had already plotted out the whole thing, so
we knew. We had a very very detailed chapter breakdown,
(14:48):
and then every day one of us would write a chapter,
and then the next day we would read the chapter
from the day before and then write the next one. So,
you know, it was actually it was a little bit
like have you done yours yet? Because you know, I'm ready.
You know, it's a bit.
Danielle Robay (15:05):
Like that, And who came up with that plan? How
did you decide to set that in motion?
So the definitely the rule that I had was just
write it and don't cross anything out, And certainly when
you're reading the other person's chapter, you couldn't cross anything out,
but you could add things.
Angourie Rice (15:24):
Yeah, I think the structure worked well. And also just
having someone hold you accountable was really good. We were
also working from a chapter plan that we'd come up
with over the past sort of two months that we'd
been thinking about this idea. We had written this chapter
plan and that helped, so we knew exactly what we
(15:45):
were doing. There was no confusion about what story we
were trying to tell or where it was going.
Danielle Robay (15:51):
That was actually my next question, because it seems easier
in my mind to write nonfiction with somebody than it
is to rape fiction. Just because there's so many nuanced
moments in characters that play out later in the book
that seem like it would all get jumbled when you're
writing with two people. Kate, I see you shaking your head.
(16:13):
How did you navigate that?
Kate Rice (16:15):
Well? We talked through the story a lot, and we
had a genius showing us how to do it. You know,
we had Jane Austen's original texts, so we were able to,
you know, whenever we had a problem, we were able
to go back to that and go, well, what did
she do? How did she do it? And we were
never freeforming. We were always following a very strong thread.
Danielle Robay (16:37):
And Kate, you've been a play right and so you're
not new to writing in any way. Ungari. What things
did you learn from your mom's breath of experience?
Angourie Rice (16:47):
My mom is probably one of the smartest people I know.
I had grown up just like wandering around the house
hearing the keyboard tapping, hearing her talking out dialoge out loud.
So to actually be in that process as opposed to
just like hearing it in the house was so fun
(17:08):
and so nice. I think there were so many things
Kate taught me, but mainly she taught me about just
getting it down without fear, like really just committing, and
the handwriting of the first draft really helped with that. Also,
(17:29):
the advice of people never say what they mean. I
think that was really clever too, especially in dialogue. I
remember there was one scene where I originally wrote it.
The character was really annoyed, and he showed that in
his dialogue and Kate said, let's to rewrite it in
this time. Everything he says is exactly opposite to how
(17:51):
he feels, and that just creates an extra layer of
nuance and reality to characters.
Danielle Robay (17:58):
I think I really like what you just shared, and
I'd never thought about the idea that people don't actually
say what they mean. It's so true. So even though
you two had this roadmap that you set forth, were
there any parts of the plot or the book writing
process that you struggled with?
Angourie Rice (18:17):
Yes, I think that's going to come along in any
writing process. Yeah. I guess if it's too easy, it's
maybe not good enough, or something that you really need
to push yourself to come up with the best possible story.
And in adapting, we already had Jane Austen's framework of
(18:39):
pride and prejudice to work from So that was great
because she'd already thought about a lot of plot things
before us. But in adapting, there are certain things that
don't work for the present day, and that was challenging
to sort of find how can we make these characters
and make the audience feel the same, but in a
(19:01):
context and situation that is completely different.
Danielle Robay (19:05):
So Jane Austen is prolific and writers seem to really
love Jane Austen, but if you ask middle school children,
they sort of side I because they think of Jane
Austen as homework. So I'm going to ask you a
funny question. If you can take Jane Austen out of
(19:25):
the classroom, can you sell her and her work to
someone who was born two hundred and fifty years ago,
to a gen Z reader who's never read Jane Austen?
Why read her for fun?
Kate Rice (19:37):
Part of the answer to that is the book we wrote, Like,
read that and then you'll get into it, I hope.
Look.
I mean, the thing about Jane Austen is that her characters,
because her world is deliberately I mean, you could could
describe it as small, I mean, but it's family and friends,
and that is the world that we still live in.
(19:59):
We still live in family and friends, and the issues
and the characters that come up in her world of
family and friends are so well observed it's really hard
to believe that these characters are not present day characters.
They all feel like people we know, even though they
speak in sort of you know, long words and long sentences,
their motivations and their obsessions. I mean, there's there's a
(20:22):
characters that character in in Northanger Abbey, but you know
how you know your dude might be really into cars
and just talk about cars all the time. There's this
dude who just talks about his carriages in the same way.
Danielle Robay (20:38):
That's funny.
Kate Rice (20:39):
Yeah, I would pitch it too, as like if someone
between the ages of twelve and sixteen came to me
and said, why should I read this and how should
I read it? I would sort of say that treat
it like a fantasy book, because young readers are so
good at understanding new worlds, at picking up on, you know,
(21:02):
these whole complex magic systems. And really the difficulty with
Jane Austen is the language and the understanding of the
social customs. I think that's what the barrier is. But
if you treat that like learning a fantasy world, understanding
the vocabulary, how people talk to each other, address each other.
I think that's your sort of gateway and your access
(21:24):
to this really wonderful, rich story.
Danielle Robay (21:26):
Kate, what do you think makes Jane Austen's work so
perfect for modern remixes?
Kate Rice (21:31):
I think in a way we are all still living
in Jane Austen's kind of Well, she was just the
first one to really really examine it and with a very,
very genius. I I think too, because she's she is
a real champion of of clever women, and you know,
we're in the age of women really coming into their
(21:54):
own in a way and telling in telling their stories.
So I suspect that's got something to do with why,
particularly now kind of in the last twenty to thirty years,
that she's had such a big, big revival.
Danielle Robay (22:06):
Well as a foil to clever women, there's also some
men that behave badly in Jane Austen stories. Mister Darcy
in Pride and Prejudice, he has his moments. He insults
Elizabeth to her face. He's a little emotionally clueless at
the beginning. His first proposal is definitely insulting. What kind
(22:29):
of behaviors did you have to change for a gen
Z audience in order for a mister Darcy type character
to resonate.
Kate Rice (22:37):
I mean everything that we had to change, like so
much of it just translated directly really. But the things
we had to change were around women as property because
they couldn't, you know, women couldn't earn their own money.
They were part of a family headed by a man.
So that was kind of the main thing, and that
did have to be reflected very much with our mister
(22:59):
Darcy journey. Well, because you know, in Prime and Prejudice
he swoops in and saves the day and for Elizabeth,
and we wanted to maintain that feeling of him being
perfect for her without her being completely disempowered. So she
now is in our version, she is much more empowered
and she does, to a certain extent, save.
(23:20):
Her own day.
Danielle Robay (23:21):
Yeah.
Angourie Rice (23:21):
I think too that mister Darcy is someone who he's
not particularly charming. He's quite awkward, and it's about sort
of hitting that awkwardness. What does awkwardness today mean? Is
it the same as it was two hundred and something
years ago or is it slightly different? Also? I think
(23:45):
maybe for Jane Austin, it was really easy for mister Darcy,
or not easy, but there were so many social rules
around how to behave that I think it's quite pointed
in her novels when people don't follow those social rules
and what that says about who they are. So I
think in our version two, when we might consider our contemporary,
(24:09):
our day to day having less social rules, it's about
sort of showing how someone can still sort of operate
within within society, either breaking those rules or bending them,
and what that says about their character.
Danielle Robay (24:24):
Angourie, this isn't the first classic adaptation that you've been
a part of. I didn't realize this Mean Girls is
a retelling of Julius Caesar, and so did you. You're
looking like you didn't know that either.
Angourie Rice (24:39):
I didn't. I didn't know that. I know it makes
sense though it does, doesn't it? Well?
Danielle Robay (24:44):
When I learned it, I thought, Okay, Gretchen Wiener's monologue
saying we should all just.
Angourie Rice (24:50):
Jill Caesar stab Caesar. Yeah, we should not Sta, She's like,
makes much more. Yeah, Bruce is smarter. Didn't see Brunce
is work?
Danielle Robay (24:58):
Yeah, Oh my god, please just recite for the rest
of the podcast. That was fun.
Angourie Rice (25:07):
I wish, I wish I had it all?
Danielle Robay (25:10):
Do you still do you ever think of Katie Heron's lines?
Are they to to like the tip of your tongue?
Angourie Rice (25:15):
Ever? No more after playing her than before, like even
like before I got that job. Mean Girls was always
a part of my vocabulary. I think that's true for
a lot of people of who grew up with that movie.
(25:36):
It's just it's just in your vocabulary, and me playing
her as I don't know, it's maybe made me actually
say that her lines and lines from the movie less
because I feel a bit like, I don't know, calling
attention to the fact, and I don't want to do that.
Danielle Robay (25:56):
I know you're so humble. My like claim to infamy
is that Tina Fey wrote the movie about my high
school and we had all those lunch tables. She was
so spot on with almost it was very funny. So
Jane Austin really was so prolific. She had drafts of
(26:16):
Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility all written by
the time she was twenty three years old. And she's
also known for coining a bunch of these phrases that
we still use today, like dinner party or dirt cheap.
If anybody's ever said dog tired, you can thank Jane Austen.
I feel like some of these phrases could have been
(26:36):
gen Z slang at the time. Are there any gen
Z slang terms that you think will stand the test
of time? And Gari, do you use anything like riz
or crash out or skivity, anything that's going to sustain
and endure.
Angourie Rice (26:52):
It's so funny you say that because I was reading
a book trying to remember which book it was, but
it was a book from the mid twentyth century. It
would have been from like maybe the forties or fifties
that use the term crash out in the exact same
way that we are using it today. What And I
read that, I thought, this has just come back around.
(27:14):
That's so interesting. So I wish I could. I wish
I could cite my source, but I don't remember. I
just remember thinking that, Yeah, I think, I mean, I
don't think everything will stick around, but I think things
do come back around. So I don't know if the
slang will necessarily be present forever, but it will it
will return. I mean, that's something interesting that we wanted
(27:35):
to do with our book too, is we made it
sort of a conscious effort to not include any slang
because we were worried about it aging. So we wanted
to create sort of new things, new insults, new terms
of phrase that were not slang, that we're not swearing,
that could sort of exist in our little fictional world.
(27:58):
Clueless did that mean? Girls did that with fetch as well.
And then also when I think about when I think
about Jane Austen, I'm sure there are words in there
that were slang at the time that we don't even recognize.
But also all the all of those phrases she coined
which I didn't even know about, but you know, that's
that's her also forging ahead. That's her not using the
(28:20):
slang at the time. That's her saying, we don't have
a word for this or a phrase for this, let
me describe it this way, which I love.
Danielle Robay (28:27):
Do you have any favorites from your book?
Angourie Rice (28:30):
Ah, there's something in there about him having as many
arms as an octopus and just as slimy or something
that's cute.
Kate Rice (28:38):
Did that make it in Also, because we as well
as not using any slang, we also didn't want to swear.
We wanted to be able to say, there's you know
there's no swearing, so yes, we talk about Dorian having
a stick up his potato.
Angourie Rice (28:51):
Yeah, stick up his potato. I think that's hilarious. Still,
that's the thing. It's like, I don't care if nobody
else likes it. That makes me laugh. Well.
Danielle Robay (29:08):
Also, one of my really good friends is Australian and
she has the funniest terminology. I just asked her to
describe things to me, because you guys have all these
funny terms that we don't have in America, and so
I feel like there must be so many in the
book that we don't even know that are inspired by
(29:28):
some Australian terms.
Kate Rice (29:32):
You've got tickets on yourself?
Danielle Robay (29:33):
What does that mean?
That means you think you're pretty good. You've got tickets,
you know, I don't know, like you're for sale or something.
I love that.
That's a good one, Kate, and wake up Australia. It means,
you know, stop stop dreaming, snap out of it, wake
up Australia.
Angourie Rice (29:52):
There were also there was one in there. I don't
remember what it was, but I think I said, I
don't even know what that is. You have to take
that out. That's funny. My grandfather is quite well known
for making up phrases.
Danielle Robay (30:04):
Yeah wait really ah, yeah, that's that's true. I grew
up with him saying all sorts of bizarre things.
Angourie Rice (30:12):
I just find I find nothing funnier than someone bungling
a turn of phrase, so saying like, oh, you know,
we'll we'll jump off that bridge when we get to it,
which is when we say, or like whatever floats your
goat or something. I just find that I find that
so funny.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Whatever floats your goat is really good.
Angourie Rice (30:34):
Yeah.
Danielle Robay (30:36):
So Jane Austen was also known for illuminating little corners
of our social and cultural lives the way you described
And Gary, what did you want to illuminate in your
own retelling?
Angourie Rice (30:49):
Well, I think initially we were thinking about how do
we translate mister Darcy who is young and independent and
rich today, and that's famous people, movie stars, influencers, musicians,
so I think, And so that came as an easy
answer to us for two reasons. It really matched Jane
(31:10):
Austen's sort of framework of someone who's wealthy and independent,
But it also matched our special experience and maybe a
unique perspective that we had to tell as me being
an actor and Kate having chaperoned me until I was eighteen,
so we both had a sort of a perspective on
(31:33):
Hollywood and the industry that we wanted to talk about
because I think also in creating a character who had
gotten famous at a young age was interesting to us
and sort of talking about what fame means for someone
and what it does to someone, and also how drastically
(31:55):
it affects how you interact with the world, and we
see that in Dorian and his friends, and we wanted
to explore that.
Kate Rice (32:04):
I think for me, I was also really interested in
the in legacy in mothers and daughter's families. Why do
we culturally hold on to certain things? What are we
ready to let go? Are we destined to repeat the
mistakes of our parents?
You know?
So this this is a retelling, but it is also
the next generation, which was very important to me. I
(32:27):
wanted it to be about what happens next in the
Prime and Prejudice story.
Danielle Robay (32:31):
It feels particularly apropos writing this as a mother daughter
do O, Kate, did you come to your own conclusion
about any of those questions?
Yes, well, I mean sort of. My hope is that
each generation gets a bit better Like that, if you're
conscious about it, Like the default position is always going
to be to fall back into whatever you grew up with,
(32:53):
but the conscious decision to improve is something that we
can all do and go Okay. It was like this
for my mom. My mom was like this, I'm not
going to do that. I'm going to do this. And
that's in the book and I hope in our lives.
Kate Rice (33:09):
It's really powerful. And I like the idea of what
you want to keep and what you want to change,
because I think we all feel that about our family
legacy in some way. So Stuck Up in Stupid is
marketed as a book for a generation of teens who
are definitely not looking for love. I have to tell you,
I was astounded reading that. What do you mean they
(33:32):
are not looking for love? What is so unique about
gen Z's approach to romance? Please school this millennial? I
am confused.
Angourie Rice (33:43):
Oh so, I think that's a particular reference to Lily,
our main character. She's not looking for love, and I
think that's that is reflective of how she feels about
her mother and how her mother has, throughout her whole
life sort of depended on men and romance to make
(34:06):
her feel happy and validated.
But I don't know.
Maybe, I mean, I don't know if I can speak
to everyone born two thousand and one like me, But
maybe there's this sort of idea of like, maybe there's
a healthy sort of independence, like I don't need this
(34:26):
to complete me. I am whole as myself. A relationship
is nice, but I can be on my own in
this world and be okay with.
Kate Rice (34:36):
That, which is just which makes me so happy because
I spent my entire teenage years and twenties going where's
the one who's going to complete me? And I was
literally writing that in my diary, going where's the guy?
Where is my you know and your other half?
Where is my other half? I'm useless, I'm nothing without
a man like I was very much of that mindset,
(34:58):
And it makes me so happy that my two beautiful
gen Z children don't feel that and feel quite content
in themselves and are happy to bring that to a
relationship if it happens, and if it doesn't, that's also fine.
Danielle Robay (35:15):
That's really cool that you feel that way, Kate. I
think a lot of parents still want their kids. They
put a lot of pressure on their kids to find love.
Do you think that our perception of love has changed.
Do you see it differently within your daughters? And I
know you just mentioned that they feel whole, but do
you see how they go about things? Is it different
(35:36):
than you did?
Well, that aspect is certainly different because I was always
looking constantly, So it's great that they're not all the time.
That's good. I don't know, maybe, I certainly think. I mean,
the other thing that's really changed attitudes to love, obviously
is the whole internet thing that now it seems it's
(35:57):
kind of a bit uncool to ask somebody out just
out of the because you don't know if they're looking,
because they're not on an app declaring their lookiness. But
obviously I can't really speak about any of that, but
that is the big shift.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
From when I was young and Gari, do you see
it with your friends? Are there? Do you have certain
friends who are like a little bit more obsessive about
finding love than others or do you find it truly
that it's a generational difference.
Danielle Robay (36:26):
Hmmm.
Angourie Rice (36:26):
I guess it changes from person to person. I think
I gravitate towards people in my life who make me
feel happy and special and excited about being a person
in the world, and so I think that means I'm
gravitating towards people who feel that way about themselves as well. Like,
(36:48):
that's something I really admire about so many of my friends,
is how how they show me independence and power and like,
my friends make me want to be a better person.
And I think that is that's linked to Yeah, this
sort of strength in independence and better this for yourself
(37:13):
and your community. I think that's the other things. It's
I feel really empowered by my friends to sort of
create a strong sense of community and that if I
don't need anything, I just can ask.
Danielle Robay (37:27):
Yeah, that's really beautiful at your age. I don't know
that I felt like that until I was in my
thirties with my girlfriends. So I think that's pretty cool.
(37:50):
Will the two of you be writing another book together?
Angourie Rice (37:53):
Yes?
Danielle Robay (37:54):
You know what's funny? Is Kate not at a quick yes,
and I didn't hear anything from Angourie.
Angourie Rice (38:00):
Yes, Yes, the answer is yes. I always get I'm
always like thinking about the thing after that, so yes,
absolutely and also maybe yes again but not sure but.
Danielle Robay (38:15):
Yes cool, So yes times two potentially.
Kate Rice (38:18):
Well we do. Yes, there is one very much in
the works, and then there's another one that we're still kind.
Angourie Rice (38:24):
Of yeah, but as per our rule, we cannot say
anything until it's done.
Danielle Robay (38:31):
You know what, I'm not going to fight you on that.
That's totally fair, and I leve a full circle moment
in an interview, so I'll take it. I do have
one question about it, which is is it a classic retelling? Again?
Is there a story you would want to adapt or
is it an original work?
Kate Rice (38:49):
Well, there is another classic that I do want to adapt,
but with Angourie, no, we're doing new things.
Angourie Rice (38:57):
Yes much also for young for young readers, or a
sort of yeah, this similar audience to Stuck up and Stupid,
but different story, different world.
Danielle Robay (39:07):
I love asking our guests what they've bookmarked this week.
It could be a weird fact, a fun quote, something
you've saved on Instagram, something you texted your best friend about.
What have each of you bookmarked?
Angourie Rice (39:20):
Well? I have this book that I just finished called
Saplings by Noel Stretfield, and I have been bookmarking this
a lot and I just finished it last night. Because
there are so many fabulous terms of phrase in here, like,
for example, this, I feel this is an occasion for
masterly inactivity. Just kind of loved that, Like, what an
(39:42):
elegant way of saying, leave it alone, don't do anything.
I also liked this one. Missus Oliver and her relations
seemed to exist on the spin of a coin. I
really liked that everything that happened to them was caused
by passing under ladders, meeting black cats, tripping over dropped nails,
and the arrangement of tea leaves in their teacups. I
(40:04):
love that idea that if your life is dictated by luck,
you're living on the on the spin of a coin.
But yeah, this is a book from nineteen forty five.
Nol Stretfield wrote Ballet Shoes, which was a classic I
read and loved growing up. It's about a family who
is dealing with the fallout of World War Two and
sort of how that changes a family in England. And
(40:26):
it was published just towards the end of World War two,
so when she was writing this she didn't know when
the war would end. So it's a really interesting perspective
on children dealing with the war. So that's my book
mark thing.
Danielle Robay (40:44):
Oh, Angourie, that could be one of the best ones
we've had. That is so good and I loved I
love that turn of phrase too. It is it feels
so precise. Yes.
Angourie Rice (40:56):
Yes, there were a lot of things in this book
that I loved, and I like collecting sentences like that
and writing them down and not copying them or stealing
them hopefully ever, but just sort of just that creativity
of thinking about something in a new way.
Danielle Robay (41:14):
Yeah. Do you write them in your phone or do
you have a notebook?
Angourie Rice (41:18):
I have a little Yeah, I have a little notebook
that I am writing my writing quotes down in.
Kate Rice (41:27):
I have mine here. This is my folder of quotes.
Danielle Robay (41:31):
Oh, Kate, okay, let us know what have you bookmarked.
Kate Rice (41:35):
When I read a book. Don't tell my librarians from
high school or primary school, but I do, dog-ear them.
I literally book mark the pages where I find things
that I love, and then I cook them and I
put them in here in alphabetical order so that you
can find them.
But the ones in alphabetical order, how do you even
organize that?
Angourie Rice (41:54):
Yeah? Alphabetical order of the author?
Kate Rice (41:56):
My author? Yes, so. My favorite most recent ones are
from My Friends by Frederick Bachman, which is out now.
All about art. Great art is a small break from
human despair, and art helped me cope because art is
a fragile magic, just like love. And that's humanity's only
(42:19):
defense against death. That we create and paint and dance
and fall in love. That's our rebellion against eternity.
Angourie Rice (42:27):
Do you know? I also read that book and I
wrote that quote down in my book too.
Danielle Robay (42:34):
That's so cute, Like mother like daughter. Why did it
strike both of you?
Kate Rice (42:40):
I mean, for me, art is a bit like a religion.
Art is what gives my life meaning in many ways.
It's how I process everything and makes it more than
just you know, waking up and getting through the day.
It connects us, It connects us to each other, and
it connects us to thing bigger than ourselves. So art
(43:02):
is everything for me, and to have it explained so
beautifully in such a short, beautiful sense, yeah.
Angourie Rice (43:11):
I think also for me art like it functions on
so many levels. It can be as simple as if
I feel in my head and sad about anything, Art
is the best way to sort of get outside of yourself,
to create is to It's sort of like gratitude is
(43:33):
the best killer of jealousy or despair. It sort of
functions in that same way for me, And then it
can also be as grand as like art is what
we leave behind, like that's our legacy when we think
about how we connect to how we connect to people
in the early eighteen hundreds where reading Jane Austen, that
(43:53):
is how we are connecting to people through history, and
so it feels so big in that sense.
Danielle Robay (44:00):
What was it like to grow up with a mom
who has such reverence for art?
Angourie Rice (44:06):
It was amazing. I mean, I feel so fortunate for
so many things. Like if I were to pinpoint something
that I think illustrates how I grew up, maybe, or like, oh,
now you're worried, now you're nervous, don't be worried, don't
be worried. So I grew up with a lot of
(44:26):
books in the house. We have an amazing bookshelf, and
my parents would read to me, and they each had
their own stories that they liked reading. So my dad
liked reading us more sort of adventure stories and stories
from his childhood about animals going on adventures, and that
was fun. I mean, Kate had some favorites as well.
(44:48):
But I remember I remember Kate reading us The Happy Prince,
which is a short story by Oscar Wilde, And she's
laughing now because she does what I was about to say.
But Kate can't read that book without crying. So I
remember listening to this story as a kid and being
(45:10):
so moved by it because it's a really sad story,
and also my mum being moved by it and crying
and sort of just seeing that connection between like what
stories can make you feel and what they're thought. They're
there to make you empathize, They're they're to make you
(45:31):
connect with the world, and yeah, just showing emotion and
response to art is natural and a beautiful, wonderful thing.
Is that a good story about you?
Kate Rice (45:40):
That's beautiful, that's beautiful. I thought you were going to
say something along the lines of you know that I
wouldn't let you have my little pony stories because I
would say it's merchandise.
Angourie Rice (45:52):
It's not. I love.
Danielle Robay (45:57):
That's a difference, Kate, there is I do.
Angourie Rice (46:03):
I do remember, and I think this is this is
actually very clever, and now I appreciate it. I remember
you saying I'm not going to get you much because
then you become free advertising for whatever thing you love.
And I think that's very that's very smart.
Danielle Robay (46:17):
It is. I really really appreciate and admire your reverence
for art, both of you, So thank you for creating
it and thanks for sharing some of your art with
me today. Okay, Well, we're going to end on something fun,
which is called speed read. Here's how it works. We
(46:38):
put one hundred and twenty seconds on the clock, sixty
seconds for each of you, and we're going to see
just how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through.
So I'm going to do it popcorn style. Kate, I'll
ask you a question, and then Angari, I'll ask you
the question. Are you ready?
Angourie Rice (46:55):
Yes? Yes?
Danielle Robay (46:56):
Okay?
Three?
Angourie Rice (46:58):
Two?
Speaker 1 (46:58):
One? Kate, what's one literary trope you would ban forever?
Kate Rice (47:05):
She led out a breath that she didn't know she
was holding.
Danielle Robay (47:09):
Nixt Angourie.
One that you'll defend with your life.
Angourie Rice (47:14):
Enemies to lovers always.
Danielle Robay (47:17):
Agreed, Kate. What's a book that you wish you had written?
Kate Rice (47:23):
Fortunes of Richard Marney by Henry Handel Richardson Angourie.
Danielle Robay (47:27):
What is your favorite book to recommend?
Angourie Rice (47:30):
Ooh, I love recommending depends what it's for, but I
love recommending Station eleven by Emily St. John Mandel because
it's about a pandemic, but it's also about art and
the resistance of art.
Danielle Robay (47:42):
Ooh, I have to read that Okay, your favorite page
to screen adaptation Kate.
Kate Rice (47:47):
Oh nineteen ninety four Pride and Prejudice, Angourie.
Angourie Rice (47:51):
How about you that I would say the same, But
I also love Clueless as an adaptation of Emma by
Jane Austen.
Danielle Robay (47:59):
Okay, what is your favorite Jane Austen work.
Kate Rice (48:03):
Pride and Prejudice and also Emma Hungary.
Danielle Robay (48:06):
How about you the same, Kate. What book do you
wish you could read for the first.
Kate Rice (48:12):
Time again alone in Berlin by Hans Falada Hungary.
Angourie Rice (48:16):
Which fictional character do you secretly think you're most like Emma?
Emma from Emma by Jane Austen Unfortunately if you've read it. Yeah, yes, unfortunately, Kate.
Danielle Robay (48:30):
If you could vicariously live through one fictional character, who
would that be?
Kate Rice (48:36):
Oh, Elizabeth Bennett once she becomes missus Darcy, She's got
a good.
Danielle Robay (48:42):
Life, Angourie. Last question, what book shaped the way you
see the world? Oh?
Angourie Rice (48:51):
My gosh, every book, every book I've ever read. Is
that an answer?
Danielle Robay (48:56):
No, it's true, that is an answer. I love it. Guys.
This was really fun.
Thank you for this, but thank you so much. Thank
you so much guys for having us. This is lovely.
Kate Rice (49:11):
Yes, thank you thank you.
Danielle Robay (49:17):
If you want a little bit more from us, come
hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club
on Instagram, serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes
magic and I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come say
hi and df me and if you want to go
nineties on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open,
so call now at one five zero one two nine
(49:39):
one three three seven nine. That's one five oh one
two nine one three three seven nine. Share your literary
hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or
let us know what you think about the episode you
just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself
in our next episode, So don't be shy. Give us
(50:02):
a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked
by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast
or wherever you get your shows. Until then see in
the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello, Sunshine
and iHeart Podcasts. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and
me Danielle Robey. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our
(50:26):
producers are Maddy Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleide and Darbi Masters.
Our production assistant is Avery Loftis. Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureene
Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello, Sunshine,
Olga Cominwa. Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers
(50:49):
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Pellizola is our showrunner.
Host
Simone Boyce
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