September 29, 2025 • 37 mins
Right now, it feels like everyone is settling down—your childhood bestie, your old roommate, even Taylor Swift! But what if you're still single and searching for "The One?" In the age of dating apps, situationships and breadcrumbing, finding real romance feels harder than ever. Should the single ladies just...throw in the towel? We don't think so! Today, we're sitting down with relationship guru and friend of the show Sabrina Zohar to get her insights—on setting boundaries, learning from past mistakes, and who should pay on the first date.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Today on the bright Side, A love letter to single
women with the relationship coach Sabrina Zohar.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I kept dating emotionally and available men. I wonder why,
because I was too scared to talk about my needs.
I didn't take up space. I would go on ten
dates with these people, sleep with them, give them full
access to me, terrified to say that I wanted a relationship.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright side from
Hello Sunshine. Welcome back to the brightside, y'all. Today is
all about love. So if you're new here, I've been
added the dating game for a while, fifteen years to
be exact. That's when I found my person, my husband Michael,
and I feel very fortunate that we found each other then.
(00:46):
But listen, I'm a woman in the world and I
have lots of single friends who are swiping left and right,
and occasionally they let me swipe for them and they
tell me their stories of being in the trenches and
how the dating world can continues to evolve. So did
dive even deeper and get a sense of what my
single ladies are thinking and feeling and wondering what's on
(01:08):
their hearts? We asked you and here's what we found. Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My name is Lindsay from Los Angeles and I haven't
met my big love yet, but I know it's out
there and it will get to meet at the time
when I need it most.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I'm a forty something year old woman in Baltimore doing
my best to date these days, and I wondered how
you've seen dating change with the use of apps.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
This is Lindsay from Los Angeles. I'm a single mommy
with a one year old going through a divorce, so
that's a lot of things, but I do know that
I'm going to meet someone.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Hi. This is Valerie Ward. I'm about to enter the
dating field after thirty four years, A little tentative about
starting this process. So I guess the question is how
do you say thanks but no thanks to some without
hurting their feelings.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Hi. I'm twenty four and I live in Brooklyn, New York.
You know I've had stories where after the first date,
I've been venma requested forty dollars, or had someone reveal
a little too much about their family issues on the
first date that was a little bit uncomfortable. So just
these kinds of situations in the moment, feel like, oh
my god, this is really a lot Ooh.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Well, I know somebody who's going to have some very
strong opinions on all this. Honestly, I can't imagine having
an existential conversation about dating in the modern age without
our girl friend of the show, Sabrina Zohar. She's a
relationship coach and host of the podcast The Sabrina Zohar Show,
where she dishes out nobs life changing dating advice, and
(02:47):
she's doing the same here on her show today. She
is dropping some gems y'all, so let's get into it,
and who knows, maybe she can help us all find
our fairy tale ending. Sabrina Zohar, Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Oh I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I'm so happy you're here. It's been so long. It's
been so good to see you. Right today, bestie, as
we were just catching up off Mike about our experience
seeing the Backstoop Boys at the Sphere changed my life.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It was like a religious experience.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I swear what became abundantly clear to me and the
friend that I was with was how much the Backstoop
Boys shaped our love fantasies as as kids.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I've been listening to some songs recently and I was like, oh, no,
wonder we have unrealistic expectations because of that. You're telling
me like, I'll do it even I think of instanc
lyrics of like I'll take anything, pretty much like I'll
do anything with it's dating in your thirties, like I
don't care who you are as long as you love me,
and you're like okay. But it's true. It set us up,
I think for false expectations of what adult relationships are
(03:48):
because we're like, where is this guy with rose petals
singing me a song? Telling me he can't wait to
be with me? And I'm his everything?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh we get our breadcrumbs and ghosts. I mean, what
are happened to real love people? But that is what
we're talking about today because you are the queen of
love and dating in relationships, and I think it's appropriate
to start out with some big news about probably the
world's most famous lover girl, Taylor Swift. Everyone is still
buzzing from her engagement announcement. Are you a Swift E?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I enjoy her music, but I wouldn't say a Swifty.
I was stoked for her nonetheless, because the poor girl
has gone through it and if that's what you got
at the end of it, like, good kudos to you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's interesting that you bring that up because one of
the things that stood out to me, and I think
why this moment felt so big for her fandom is
because she has gotten her heart broken a lot, but
she still kept her heart open. What do you think
is the biggest lesson that we could all take from
how Taylor Swift approaches love.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I mean, I think the obvious ones are like, don't
settle and you'll find your person, But I think the
more nuanced aspects that I think we could really focus
on is that when you stay true to yourself, you
will welcome people who love that part of you instead
of having to water herself down. Like I think of
songs hers that we can all resonate with because we
feel like we were her or we could connect in
that way, and a lot of them were how she felt,
(05:06):
maybe that she was too much, or that this person
didn't get her or he wasn't there for her, and
it really just shows that like she did work on herself.
I'm sure, like I'm sure she was trying to figure
out her part in it, but she stayed really true
to herself. And that way, when she was able to
meet a man who loves her so much and got
her a five hundred and fifty thousand dollars rain and
proposed and made it this whole thing, it's because she
really waited for the person that was going to see
(05:27):
her for who she was, and she wasn't trying to
become something that she wasn't in order to get somebody else.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So I want to share some recent research on dating
today that I found that I thought was really fascinating.
According to the Pew Research Center, about half of single
adults report they aren't actively seeking a relationship or dating.
When you look at older single women, they are definitely
not looking to date, if we're going to make a
sweeping generalization here. And then also interestingly, young people who've
(05:54):
never been in a relationship aren't really prioritizing love. So
even for the people who have never had that big
they're like meh, I don't know, Yeah, what is your
reaction when you hear this research? As someone who is
so immersed in this space, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I'll be honest, because I see two very interesting sides
of the coin. I see the people that are like
lover girls or boys that really want love, like they
are open, they are receptive, they know, and then the
pendulum goes all the way to the like I'm never
opening my heart up again. Anythink we're seeing a few things. One,
dynamics are shifting in generations. The younger generation. They're not
drinking as much, they're not partying, They're significantly on their
(06:29):
phone a lot more so, they're not connecting as much
in person, which is then going to impact how are
you going to build a relationship. And for a lot
of them, they do the like why bother? It doesn't
mean nobody my age wants anything. And I get that
I was in my twenties before as well. But I
think depending on the generations, what I start to notice
for a lot of people, and the present company included
for a while is when I hear the struggles with
(06:49):
dating and like, oh, I'm never going to find anybody.
I hear a lot of I don't trust myself because
when I trust myself, like if I go out right
now and I need to find a job, I know
that I'm going to get rejected by a lieu of
people because not every job am I going to fit
every single bill. And I always put it in the
perspective of like a salary. If I'm going out and
saying throwing a number, I need one hundred thousand dollars,
I can't live under anything under that, and that's my salary. Well,
(07:12):
if you're going to job interviews and they're saying I
can give you twenty and then you take the job
because you're like, I'll take anything I can get. I
need something, taking that is going to mean your needs
aren't going to be met. You're going to have to
make a ton of sacrifices. And I think when we're
talking about the dating landscape, we're getting further from connection
and more into disconnection of putting our worth and validation
on other people. And dating is really hard and people
(07:33):
waste my time and I can't handle it. But what
you're just really telling yourself is like this is difficult,
which means I can't do it, which means that's what
we're going to continue to keep seeing. So not terribly
shocked to see the numbers, because I think a lot
of us are jaded and struggling and it's really exhausting
and tiring, and I'll never take that away. But I
do also believe that love exists, and I just met
my person at a later time. And I don't think
(07:53):
it's that you can't. I think it's that you need
to shift how you interact with other people and in
love for you to start to see different things.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What's the case for still believing in love in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think we need to understand what that actually looks like.
To be honest, that's the disconnect between are we getting
it are we not? Is that look at our expectations.
If I see one more video on TikTok of like
some twenty two year old coming out and saying, if
a guy doesn't text you every day, drop him, we're
making these sweeping generalizations. Then we're going out and we're
holding people to these unrealistic expectations of you have to
(08:24):
do all of these things before we even go on
a first date. I need to know that you're going
to commit to me. I need to know that you
want me, but then I have to decide if I
want you. And I think twenty twenty five, when I'm hoping,
is that we're normalizing what healthy and secure actually looks like,
and that it's not this gold standard of a couple
that like never fights and everything's magical and hunky dory,
because I could all be guarantee you know, Tan Kelsey
and all that they fight, They get into arguments, because
(08:46):
real couples have real disagreements, because otherwise, if you don't,
you're not speaking up.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You have been in a healthy and secure relationship for
the past three years, now, how has it changed your
view on love?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It changed my view on everything. When I realized that
I was sold a false bill of goods for so long.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Okay, tell me about the false bill of goods.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I was the girl looking at all this stuff, text
this to get this, and I was like, okay, So
I'd send the text and I'm like, my god, it
inappropriate photo back. But I didn't necessarily get like the
date that I wanted. And I was doing things because
what it was was I'm uncomfortable, so I need to
control the outcome to make sure that I get what
I want, and it was moving chess pieces around. Then
when I started to date and take up space, I
started to say no to things I wanted to say
(09:27):
no to instead of saying yes to going out at
ten o'clock, Well, I don't, I'm in pet at eight thirty.
That doesn't work for me. I had to get really
comfortable losing people and grieving the ending of things, including
parts of myself that I had done and I had
showed up as so that I could get people to
like me. Once I started to shift that set boundaries
understand what does a healthy and secure nervous system feel like.
That feels calm, There's not these high highs and low lows.
(09:49):
It means that somebody validates me and listens to me
and holds space for me. It changed everything, and so
I instead of listening to if he wanted to, he would,
and all the quickly catchy things. And I started to
understand it from a human perspective and lens. It started
to open up my world and realize my lived experience
wasn't everybody else's. And so now it's totally shaped the
way I approach things, because sure I've seen it. I
(10:10):
can see couples where I'm like, you're villainizing this person
because they're avoidant and not texting you every day. You're
villainizing this person because they're too anxious and needy. But
what it actually is you're both going back in your wounds,
and if we could sit with that and actually be
able to self soothe, you could have a really beautiful
relationship when you get out of your own way.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So what does define a healthy and secure relationship to you?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
To me, it's that you have reciprocity, so that there's
a reciprocal aspect of both of you and the relationship.
You have conflict and repair, You have comprehension, You understand
what your partner is telling you. And I think the
conflict and repair is the biggest aspect. The Gotman Institute
has been running studies for the last forty plus years
and they found contentment to be one of the biggest
reasons divorces happen. Outside of infidelity and money issues. Most
(10:52):
couples don't get to the root of the issue. They
focus on things. They become more disconnected, They become more
against each other as opposed to getting curious and understanding
each other. I think compassion, curiosity all the seas right.
Getting understanding your partner. Part of a healthy and secure
relationship is I want you in my life, but I
don't need you in my life. And it's a really
strong place to be because you're making conscious choices every
(11:13):
day to choose each other as opposed to I don't
have anybody else, I have to take this.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Do you think that's what's happening right now where a
lot of women in particular are saying, I want you
in my life, but I don't need you in my life. Yeah,
especially in cities where women are out earning men, for example,
that becomes a big thing where a woman feels like
she's not going to be financially supported or she's not
going to check off all the items on her list
if that man doesn't measure up.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think what we're seeing, and I'm not trying to
gender sweeping generalizations, but I think when I'm noticing is
that women are doing so much work on themselves. We
are apt to growing, evolving, and I think we're noticing
now the bare minimum that we've set for the opposite sex.
If we're talking in that gender norm, it's no longer appropriate, right.
The bare minimum for a man can't just be like, oh,
you hold space for me. It's like, is that really
(11:58):
still part of the conversation, and that like my partner
validating me and making me feel safe in our emotional relationship.
That's a luxury. And I think as women, we are
demanding more for our partners, and it's either you're going
to sink or swim. And I think men either take
it as ego and then shut down and I don't
want to do it, and it's the women and they're
the terrible ones, or for some guys, they go into
it's all my fault. I have to do everything versus
(12:20):
I think what a lot of us want is like
we just want someone secure and who they are so
that we can be secure and who we are as well.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
We've got to take a short break, but we'll be
right back with Sabrina Zehar. And we're back with Sabrina Zehar.
Did you have a rigid checklist before you met your
current partner?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I had.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
What was on that checklist?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You had to text me every single day multiple times.
You had to be over sixty three, You had to
make a certain amount. I was like, you have to
make two fifty year higher, which is like, I don't
forget that nummor didn't mean anything for me. The checklists
used to be very shallow. It was a lot of
like they have to be attractive, and they have to
be cool, and they have to have friends in the
neighborhood and they have to have a nice apartment. And
I got all of that and I was miserable. So
(13:01):
then the checklist started to change. I think after my
big X, like after the narcissistic the relationship that ended me,
when I realized, like, no, what I need is somebody
that's not my dad. When I need is somebody that
can actually hold space for the version of me that
I have ADHD and I have a brain that works differently,
and that doesn't mean I need to change it. That
just means that maybe I'm not meeting the right person.
And I think what really changed was in general, what
(13:22):
led me to my partner, and what really changed everything
for me was learning how to take a pause. It
sounds so stupid, of like what really, Yes, I learned
how to take a pause between stimulus and response because
I would just react and I would go right knee
jerk reaction of like you didn't text me how I
want done? I'm talking girl. Within five minutes. If I
text a guy like, hey, do you want to hang
out today, I'd go right back and be like guess not.
(13:44):
Oh no, and then right right, guess not. I wish
you would have told me, And then they'd write back
me like, hey, so I was at a meeting. I
actually was excited to see you, but like not anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Hey, I was in the shower.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was just living. I was breathing. But
I had this rigidity of like, if you don't do it,
oh I want it, then it's wrong. And I had
to then realize like that's black and white thinking. And
that was just a coping defense mechanism for me because
I didn't want to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So how much time passed? How long did it take
you to understand that you were reacting as opposed to responding?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That took me. I've been in therapy for eight and
a half years, so it's taken me. I think the
first step what changed my life. And I hope that
anybody that's listening maybe has this similar story. Was when
my ex left me. I went to a narcissist anonymous
group because I had no money, I had not a pothopus,
and and he left me and I was like, how
am I going to pay half of the rent? Like
I was losing it, and so I had therapy through
a portal. That was the only thing they threw insurance.
(14:34):
And I went to the narcissist group and they were
going around and I was like, oh, no, I want
to share my story. I find find mine out and
they're like, no, no, no something. You're like, you're new, come on,
And I started sharing my story and I said, but
you know, it's all my fault. Anyways, I was like,
it's I'm too much and I pushed him away, and
just those women looked next to me and she's turned
and she said, oh, sweetie, no, that's not okay. And
I was like, what do you mean? And she's like,
(14:56):
so that's called abuse what he did to you. I
had never understood that, and so hearing it allowed me
to say, like, oh, maybe it's not all my fault.
Maybe it's not everything that I've done. And I was
able to start to undo this entire narrative and story
that I created about myself, because that was why I
thought my dad didn't like us, and my dad used
to leave is I couldn't understand anything else, So of
(15:16):
course I thought it was had to have been me.
But as an adult, I realized it was very maladaptive,
that these are people I don't know who they are
and I met them on the internet. I don't think
it's about me.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How did that break through shape the way that you
showed up in dating? Like? What changed for you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That was I started therapy then and started to make
my realizations. I didn't change my behavior then. The awareness
was the first step. I was just I remember my
friend saying, you're painfully self aware, but what are you
going to do with it? And she was right, what
are my choices now? So it first went to awareness
and I had to just become hyper aware. I started
doing yoga, meditation, breath work to be like, okay, this
is where you feel this in your body. So awareness
(15:52):
came first, and then it was still me messing up,
still me doing stupid shit, Still mean sleeping with guys
on the you know, after five minutes of knowing them
because I thought I could connect with my body, texting
too much, becoming hypervigilant. It wasn't until I moved to
California started getting burned by the same type of guys
and then taking that awareness and saying, now, how can
I implement change? And that's what started to say, Okay,
(16:14):
can I think of future me? What does it feel
like to say no? What am I scared of happening
if I say no? And then starting to do that
because we have this misconception that motivation comes before action,
and it doesn't. Motivation comes after action. You do the thing,
and then you're motivated to keep doing it. It doesn't
come before How many of us don't want to go
to the gym, but once you get there, you're motivated
to do it again. And so it was awareness was
(16:35):
the first step, and then it was understanding my nervous
system and accessing what are my choices. I might not
feel like I have any, but I always do.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
At what point would you say this awareness started to
shift the kinds of men that you were attracted to.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It's like, yeah, I remember it, like yesterday it was
one guy, and I remember it was I was in
total Limerens. Like Limrens is kind of the obsession in
the idea of somebody, and people with ADHD can fall
into life. Mont's a lot quicker. Anybody can have it.
But it's really just you know, when you're in limericks,
it's easier to focus on somebody else than it is
to focus on why you're sad and what's coming up
for you. So I could project and deflect all of
(17:10):
my stuff onto other people. And it was just I
was obsessed with him. I was obsessed. I would go
into the neighborhood to make sure he could see me
walking down the street in my cute little outfits. Never
gave me the attention I deserved, like it was just
the U up text at nine thirty, You're like, all right,
I know what's happening. And I remember it lasted nine days,
and I was so proud of myself because I realized
I was able to get curious and I was like, Okay,
why do I like this person? What about this person
(17:31):
do I like? I was like, he's successful, and if
he's successful and cool and he likes me, that makes
me validated. And I was like, oh, so that has
something to do with EA. It has to do with
what you get by being chosen by him. I was
able to undo the narrative and be sable to say, like,
I might want to go over at nine thirty. Of
course I wanted to do that, but I had to
think of future me and say, but does this a
ligne with where I'm going now. The woman I am
(17:51):
is I want a man that makes plans with me.
I want a man that's consistent. I want a man
that shows up. I want a man that is honest
and reciprocal or other, right, whatever your pronoun is. That
didn't align with it, which meant I had a choice.
And that's when I started to see. Because then I
ended that early, and then I went to the next guy,
started to see he's emotional unavailable. Then I put a
boundary up that didn't work. Every single time. It impacted
me less and less because I started to realize, like,
(18:13):
it doesn't mean anybody is the problem, We're just not
a match. And it shifted it. I'd made it instead
of a personal thing, I started to depersonalize it and say, like,
you're an amazing person and so are they. It's just
this isn't the lining.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I want to know what it was like when you
started allowing yourself to let go of some of that
rigidity around what you were looking for. How fast did
it happen? Did it happen instantaneously when you met your partner?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Oh no, when I met Ryan, I wasn't not into
him and I've been honest about that. Like I thought
he was a nice guy, but he's incredibly He's the
polar opposite of every guy I've ever dated. He's extremely
like more ocd rigid. He's very like, very closed off.
He doesn't let people in as quickly. And I'm super
warm and engaging and I talk and I'm showing up
and this guy's barely talking. But he would make these
(18:58):
little jokes where I was like, why he's it's really funny.
I was like, Okay, maybe I just like, maybe I
just give him a chance. And I just kept reminding
myself healthy and secure love doesn't mean that I feel
the butterflies. It can also be very calm. But then
he kissed me, and all of a sudden, I was like, oh,
I do kind of feel something for him. But it
was always very stable. He said boundaries very quickly on
he was not going to engage in the digital stuff.
(19:20):
But prior to that, I thought, for a while I
just needed to date a nice person. And then my
mama is the one who told me. She's like, you
don't need to do charity work, you don't need to
be with someone just because they're nice. You can have
both you can like them and they can treat you well.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Is it as simple as dating someone who's the complete
opposite of all your past partners?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I wish it was as simple. I think it's because
here's the funny thing is like Ryan might be very
different than a lot of people on the outside, but
the way I felt in certain moments, like he would
be dismissive or he could shut down, it was very
similar to my dad. And so I had to be
aware to go whoa I could collecting and I can
go right back into those modes of like then I
become the little girl, and then it wasn't worth it,
(19:59):
And so we had to be very aware of that.
But I think what it is somebody wrote in actually
the other day saying, listening to the podcast, I met
a man that was totally on my type and we're
getting married in a month, and she was like, I'm
freaking out, Like I never thought this is going to
be my life, and I'm so grateful. It's less about like, oh,
I normally go for six or five blonde, so I'm
going to go for five seven brunette. It's like, okay, no,
But what it is it's about saying maybe their personality
(20:21):
is a little different than what I normally used to. Normally,
I'm used to the big, gregarious personality, but maybe they're
more reserved. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. What
I want to look at is how does my nervous
system feel. I'm really relaxed. I feel like I can
be myself. I don't really care how you feel about them.
I care you feel with them, because how you feel
about them can be skewed. Right, They're really hot, they
have a six pack. I really like them versus Oh,
but I don't feel great with them. I feel really dismissed.
(20:42):
It's like something that's what we want to focus on.
So it does happen incrementally, But I would focus on
do I feel different with this person because a lot
of people confuse healthy with boring. I' like I didn't
feel sparked, and it's like, great, I don't want you
to feel spark it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Well, I have obviously been out of the dating game
for many of many years, about fifteen years now, but
we do have these nine year old fantasies of what
love is right, oh yeah, and then if that gets
denied or rejected, so many different times and transmuted, and
you have all these confusing romantic experiences. I'm sure it
(21:15):
can become hard to know what to look for.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I usually start with what did you used to accept
that you're no longer willing to allow?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And I like, oh wait, slow down, let me hear
that again. Run it back, run it back.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
What did you use to accept that you're no longer
willing to allow? Okay, yes, so it's a good place
to start. Yeah, of like, oh, I used to accept
someone that was disrespectful, no longer willing to That's part
of the non negotiable list of like I'm no longer
That's what I did as the list kept going and
be like heading that to the bottom of it, like
they must do this perfect, Like they have to hold
(21:48):
space when I come to them and not deflect. That's
important to me. It's a really good place to start,
because I get it. It can be overwhelming, and I'm going
to be the first person to say, like, I was
in the trenches for fifteen years on and off. I
had my longest reallyationship was nine months before Ryan, So
I know what it feels like. Take the breaks when
you need. It's Okay, you're not on any timeline. You'll
meet your person. You met your heart'spen fifteen years ago,
(22:09):
I met mine three Some people are meeting theirs today.
There is no timeline. What it's about is like, are
you living for you or are you living for a relationship.
Those are two different life experiences. And so if you
love yourself more than they need to be loved by
other people, then you'll be able to actually be in
the moments and present and where your head and your
feet will be in the same place. When you're always
in the past or in the future, you're not actually
(22:29):
able to be in the now.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We've got to take a short break, but we'll be
right back with Sabrina Zohar, and we're back. And when
I think about that now, I keep coming back to
the dating landscape, the picture that we painted at the
beginning of this conversation, right. I really wanted this episode
to be a love letter to single women who are
navigating the trenches themselves. So for someone who has been dating,
(22:56):
it's not been working out. They've been getting their heart broken,
getting their hopes up, have them dashed again. What is
Sabrina's guide to resetting your love life.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The first thing I think is like reminding yourself that
you're not broken or something to fix. And I think,
because we think that I am damaged goods, I'm broken,
there must be something wrong with me. And it's like, no,
here's the thing. You can take accountability and ownership, right,
we can take stock of what is mine to own.
So when I talk about my ex, I don't sit
there and say he's a narcissist and he did all
those things? Sure, what was my part in it? I
(23:27):
didn't have boundaries. I allowed it. I was in my
own stuff. He reminded me and my father it felt safe.
You notice how I'm taking accountability, but I'm not blaming
myself and belitting on myself. The fun fact is if
you show yourself compassion, you will actually release more dopamine
than if you did by waiting for somebody else to
text you or to get it externally. So how can
we start to turn that inwards of what can I
(23:47):
take ownership of? What can I take accountability of? What
are my patterns and what have I seen repeating and
then starting to look at okay, then what do I
need to change for me? I kept dating emotionally and
available men. I wonder why, because I was too scared
to talk about my needs, I didn't take up space.
I would go on ten dates with these people, sleep
with them, give them full access to me, with terrified
(24:08):
to say that I wanted a relationship. And so I
had to take stock of that and say, now what
are my choices? Okay, my choices are I can tell
them sooner great, And so I did that. It didn't
work out, but that didn't mean I was like, it's
all hell in a hand basket. It was great, while
I'm wasting less of my time by not engaging in this.
So I think it's also reframing that sure you can
think the worst, but you can also think the best,
(24:29):
and like, what if here's a crazy thought, what if
all of these situations that didn't work out have just
been preparing you for what is Because the more space
we take on things that aren't for us, the less
space that there is for what is for us, and.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Helping you draft a checklist that really is what you deserve.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
One hundred percent. I always look at as like you
can't rebuild a building with ashes, so you have to
start again and be the phoenix that rises, so that
if I'm sitting at rubble and I was.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I was a shell of a human. My partner left me.
I'm thirty pounds less lighter than I am. My business
in shambles, I had no money. I thought that was it,
my life was over. But it was actually an opportunity
for me to rebuild myself, and it took me eight
years to do so. And so the moral of the
story isn't that it's going to take you eight years.
It's that you have this life. And so if we're
going to be living it for other people, but I'm
not in the moment, I'm not going to get these
(25:15):
times back. And so for me, I wanted to fall
in love with my life and with me, which meant
accepting myself and validating my emotions and feelings and not
belitterally myself and putting myself down like everyone else I'd
always done my life.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
We always talk about the don'ts of dating, but I'm curious,
are there any mistakes that you think women should make
in their dating lives that can serve them later on? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
For me, I think it's take up space, and I
don't even if that's a mistake. I I'm so grateful.
I'm not telling anybody that they've to do this, but
I'm really grateful in my twenties that, like I experienced
a lot, I dated, I slept around. Like I'm not
say again, not saying that everyone has to do that,
but I was able to explore my sexuality, my sensuality,
what it is that I liked and didn't So by
the time I got to my thirties, I was like,
(25:57):
I know who I am, I know what it is.
And so for me think the only mistake that women
can continue to make is playing small because for so
long we have to be the nice girl, we have
to be the good girl. We have to be. I
grew up with go say hi to everybody. You need
to go and say help, hug your uncle exactly, yeah, hug,
go and do all this. No, be a good don't
ruffle their feathers. Don't do this. That I think is
the mistake that we do is when we continue to
(26:18):
bring in the shame that maybe at one point when
we were kids worked because we had someone that wasn't
available to us in the ways that we need. But
that is not going to give me the relationship that
you want in your adult life.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What you just describe is what gives me hope about
being a woman today and why I think it's really
exciting to be a woman today because I see us
undoing the obligations that were placed upon us by our moms.
No fault of their own and their moms, but it's
a really exciting time in terms of the grand scheme
of women's operation.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
That's how I feel like. I know a lot of
people look and say dating is the worst now and
it's the worst it's ever been, And I'm like, or
or or here's a thought. My mama couldn't leave my
father for years because she didn't have anyheur to go exactly,
there was no internet. She even said, she's like, what's
the word narcissist? Do you think anyone ever told me?
She's like, they just told me I wasn't pleasing your
father and to go back in and do more. Right now,
(27:07):
I feel like we get choices. I can say I'm
thirty five and out of one kids, I don't have
to if I don't want to. I get to take
up that space. I can educate myself. I can learn,
but like anything, the pensulum can swing right with all
of the good then we can go into the right
let's not abuse it. But I personally think it's a
much more empowering place because we're no longer just like
you got to get married and have kids of twenty
no go. We get to choose if this is the
(27:29):
life that we want, and at any point we can
say it's not. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I love that too. That's the right side of dating, y'all. Yeah. So,
one of the reasons why I love listening to your show,
Sabrina is because of the specificity of the scenarios that
your listeners bring to you and the way that you
just so definitely navigate it just off the dome with
the most sage advice. So I have a couple of
scenarios that we've come up with that's going to run
(27:55):
by you. Yeah, you talked about this on social media recently.
What is the text that you would write for some
one who is being breadcrumbed?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
For me?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I'm big on getting the clarity because you'll get what
you want or what you need, And so I go
in of like, hey, I noticed a shift in our dynamic.
Am I picking up on that correctly? You're not accusing
anybody I hear it all the time. Of well, they
used to text every day. So what you're saying is
there's a shift in the dynamic. You used to text
me every day, multiple times a day. Now I barely
hear from you. Not accusing you, I'm not coming at you.
I'm not saying, oh, why are we doing this. I'm
(28:23):
giving you the space to be able to let me know.
So I get curious. We want to explore the other person,
because here's the thing. If they still leave you confused
and go I've just been busy. You've got your answer.
You don't need to keep going.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, Let's say you've been dating someone for about three months. Yep,
they're in the middle of a messy divorce, custody battle,
kind of a complex living situation with their ex. They
are officially getting a divorce. It's not happening with the ex.
They are showing interest in you, but they're not sure
yet if they're ready to commit.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The minute you told me going through a divorce messy
s all that, I was like, run, don't walk.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Run.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The reason I say that isn't because that person doesn't
deserve love. Of course they do. They're not in a
headspace and they don't have the bandwidth when they are
dealing with We are like a battery. You only have
so much energy in a day before you need to recharge.
And somebody that one is newly divorced. So if they
have complications trying to figure this out, trying to figure
that out, have they processed the ending of the divorce?
Have they been alone? I see this all the time,
(29:22):
especially in divorces, where it'll be either one person leaves
and says but they moved on and almost immediately, And
what I usually see is it's not gonna work, and
it very rarely doesn't.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
This.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Of course sometimes it does, but more often than not,
when someone moves on in a couple of days and
is already dating somebody else, they're bypassing. So what will
happen is like usually a lot of people will rush
into something because they're used to having someone every day,
and then you see it all of a sudden, two
months in, they're like, you know, I realized, I don't
know if I'm actually ready for this. I'm still realizing
I'm just I haven't been single. Spare yourself and just
(29:53):
let that person know, you know what, go out and
sew your oads, call me when you're actually ready to
be in another relationship, because they have to deal with
their stuff and be with themselves before they can welcome
someone in, because if it didn't work in the relationship,
what have they learned that we don't have those problems?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So good. Last one going back to what we talked
about earlier, which is the reality that a lot of
women are out earning men, specifically in certain cities around
the country right now. So let's say someone has opened
themselves up to dating someone who might not be at
their same financial level. You're wrapping up a date with them,
(30:27):
the bill comes, he asks to split it. Is that
worth exploring? Is there potential there?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I think if that's the only knock I can maybe
have a conversation. It just pains me because first date,
I look at it as whoever asked the person on
the date is the one that should pay. If you
asked me from my time, then I'm expecting that you're
going to pay for the fact that I'm there. If
I ask you out, if I'm like, hey, I want
to see you come, then that means I'm prepared to
(30:54):
pay because it was my idea. If literally that's the
only box they don't check. I would just get curious
about because, like, I know when my partner when we
first met, I didn't have a pot to pissen. And
he was in tech, so he was making pretty good
money and he lost his job like two months later.
It was tech, you know, they went through the fired
thirty percent of the company, and so after that he
was in a tighter financial situation. I was making so
(31:15):
much more money. I was my business, my career was growing.
But I had to be okay knowing that one it
was momentary and two like there were times where he
was like, I'm sorry, I can't take you out, like
I don't have you, I'm unemployment. I was understanding of that.
I think it's about are they frugal or cheap?
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Are they just saying like hey, you know, I totally understand,
Like since I've heard of the opposite, I've heard women
say I'm a feminist and I don't want anyone to
pay for me. So I think to the point, you
can also be honest of like, oh you want to
split this. I thought you were taking me out to dinner,
And then that way if they're like, oh, well, I don't.
Then you can start to see how do they see partnership,
because maybe they see partnership as tit for tativ. I
(31:50):
don't need to take care of you and you're into pet.
That might not work for me because I don't want
a person with that mindset. I would say to look
at how they handle it and if it's just a note,
like if you're just if at that point you were
on sure, then the check comes and they do that,
I don't think you need a second date.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Kind I have to agree with you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know, it's not my ideal. I will be the
first to say, but I definitely have had it where
some guys don't. And you're like, okay, I kind of
want to get the benefit of the doubt. But first
date is so ghost to not pay it really is right,
it really is. It's fine maybe yeah, but the first.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Date my husband went Dutch, asked us to go to
Dutch on the second date, yeah, he in even that.
I was like, this is not looking good for you, buddy,
but sung in there and we're doing great.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's exactly what I mean by like if that was
if there was all these other red flags and then
that comes and you're like, no, I'm out of here.
But you're like, oh, I like this person. I can
overlook this. I think there's bigger fresh to fry because
now my partner I like, it's thee irony. I pay
his salary because he works for me. Yeah, I earn
both of us, but he cooks and cleans in the
house and I take care of other things, Like we
have a diet. It works beautifully for us because I
(32:52):
don't cook, but he does. Great. It doesn't mean that
you have to have specific gender norms. It means that
you and your partner need to have things that each
one of you do that make it work.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, and a willingness I think, just a willingness to
come to the table and be open one hundred percent.
So since we're talking about love letters to our single selves,
what do you think you would want to say in
a love letter to single Sabrina?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Oh, I talk to her all the time?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You really do you still do?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I do it all the time. I write letters to
myself on Insta, like I do stories all the time.
I'll find a photo of myself and I think today
is was about like, I am so proud of you
for trying to keep me safe. And I am so
grateful and proud of you for trying to be loved
by other people, But you don't need to do that anymore.
All of those versions of me seven years old was
my responsibility was never to figure out how to be loved.
(33:38):
That was never my job. And so I have to
let her know I'm so sorry that I left you
to do that job. But I'm now here. I'm the mama.
I'm the one to take care of everything, and you
are amazing as you are, and I'm the one that's
going to make choices for us. And every single day
I remind her of that.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
I love that you do that as a practice.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
And it's not even because a lot of people when
I ask, usually the responsible, but what would you say,
They're like, everything turns out fine, you're safe, You're okay,
And I'm like, not true. Not to mention, I'm like,
if I sold you that, would you believe me?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Well, you're gaslighting yourself because when you're telling yourself there's
no issues, you're fine, Well, that version of you doesn't
believe that. So maybe we can hold space and say
I'm listening, what do you want to tell me?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Also, every woman knows that when you say you're fine,
you're not.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You're right, that's like I'm good, You're like, oh, she's not.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
She's definitely not good, definitely not fine. I love to
end each of our conversations here on the bright side
by asking our guests to take a moment to shine.
So I'm going to ask you what are you celebrating
in your life right now?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
My first book, I can't believe it is. That is
It's something that I'm still wrapping my head around. So
I just turned it in like two.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Days ago, just turned it in. Oh my gosh, I'm there.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah, So I'm like a year as or that that phase.
I am celebrating in the fact that I found myself
and I continue to find myself every single day, and
I'm a human Like I have moments where where you're like,
I'm going to delete everything. I'm done, I don't want
to do anything. Yeah, but I remember who I am,
and I just I don't stand up to bullies anymore.
And I feel like I've I feel like I'm the
closest to who I really am now than I've ever
been in my life. So I'm celebrating that I.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Am so happy for you. I can't wait to read
your book. And this book is going to be a
huge success. I just I can feel it, I hope.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So it's about patterns, it's not about people think it's
gonna be about dating relationships. I'm like, it's about a
chapter of it, but the rest of it is like,
how do you show up for you? And where did
you learn this from?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Because that's what dating is actually about.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
It's the foundation to set before you get out there.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
See, I'm part of the School of Sabrina. I'm not
a graduate, but I'm one of the students. Thank you,
Sabrina for coming on the bright side.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Sabrina Zohar is a dating coach and host of the
podcast The Sabrina Zohar Show. You can find more of
her amazing advice on Instagram and TikTok oh. One more thing.
The time is almost here, folks, come join me and
the brightest female founders, thinkers, and creatives at Shinaway. If
you've been, you know Shineaway is more than just an event.
(35:52):
And if you haven't been yet, what are you waiting for?
It is a two day celebration that invites you to
step into a world of joy, depth and discovery. The
lineup is out now and I cannot wait to see
all my faves like Morning Show starr Karen Pittman, Power Pause,
author Naja Rouche, and I'll also be sitting down for
a special edition of the bright Side with entrepreneur Chrissy Teakin.
(36:14):
Plus if you're like me and reading along with Reese's
book Club, get ready to go behind the scenes with
authors like Rainbow Rowel and Temby Lock. It's all going
down October eleventh and twelfth in Los Angeles and tickets
are selling fast, so get here is now. The bright
Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts
and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce.
(36:37):
Production is by a Cast Creative Studios. Our producers are
Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, Abby Delk, and Darby Masters. Our
production assistant is Joya putnoy A Casts Executive producers are
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon
are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry and
(36:58):
Lauren Hansen are the executive produce users for iHeart podcasts
our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lakehouser
Today on the bright Side, A love letter to single
women with the relationship coach Sabrina Zohar.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I kept dating emotionally and available men. I wonder why,
because I was too scared to talk about my needs.
I didn't take up space. I would go on ten
dates with these people, sleep with them, give them full
access to me, terrified to say that I wanted a relationship.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright side from
Hello Sunshine. Welcome back to the brightside, y'all. Today is
all about love. So if you're new here, I've been
added the dating game for a while, fifteen years to
be exact. That's when I found my person, my husband Michael,
and I feel very fortunate that we found each other then.
(00:46):
But listen, I'm a woman in the world and I
have lots of single friends who are swiping left and right,
and occasionally they let me swipe for them and they
tell me their stories of being in the trenches and
how the dating world can continues to evolve. So did
dive even deeper and get a sense of what my
single ladies are thinking and feeling and wondering what's on
(01:08):
their hearts? We asked you and here's what we found. Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My name is Lindsay from Los Angeles and I haven't
met my big love yet, but I know it's out
there and it will get to meet at the time
when I need it most.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I'm a forty something year old woman in Baltimore doing
my best to date these days, and I wondered how
you've seen dating change with the use of apps.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
This is Lindsay from Los Angeles. I'm a single mommy
with a one year old going through a divorce, so
that's a lot of things, but I do know that
I'm going to meet someone.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Hi. This is Valerie Ward. I'm about to enter the
dating field after thirty four years, A little tentative about
starting this process. So I guess the question is how
do you say thanks but no thanks to some without
hurting their feelings.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Hi. I'm twenty four and I live in Brooklyn, New York.
You know I've had stories where after the first date,
I've been venma requested forty dollars, or had someone reveal
a little too much about their family issues on the
first date that was a little bit uncomfortable. So just
these kinds of situations in the moment, feel like, oh
my god, this is really a lot Ooh.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Well, I know somebody who's going to have some very
strong opinions on all this. Honestly, I can't imagine having
an existential conversation about dating in the modern age without
our girl friend of the show, Sabrina Zohar. She's a
relationship coach and host of the podcast The Sabrina Zohar Show,
where she dishes out nobs life changing dating advice, and
(02:47):
she's doing the same here on her show today. She
is dropping some gems y'all, so let's get into it,
and who knows, maybe she can help us all find
our fairy tale ending. Sabrina Zohar, Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Oh I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I'm so happy you're here. It's been so long. It's
been so good to see you. Right today, bestie, as
we were just catching up off Mike about our experience
seeing the Backstoop Boys at the Sphere changed my life.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It was like a religious experience.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I swear what became abundantly clear to me and the
friend that I was with was how much the Backstoop
Boys shaped our love fantasies as as kids.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I've been listening to some songs recently and I was like, oh, no,
wonder we have unrealistic expectations because of that. You're telling
me like, I'll do it even I think of instanc
lyrics of like I'll take anything, pretty much like I'll
do anything with it's dating in your thirties, like I
don't care who you are as long as you love me,
and you're like okay. But it's true. It set us up,
I think for false expectations of what adult relationships are
(03:48):
because we're like, where is this guy with rose petals
singing me a song? Telling me he can't wait to
be with me? And I'm his everything?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh we get our breadcrumbs and ghosts. I mean, what
are happened to real love people? But that is what
we're talking about today because you are the queen of
love and dating in relationships, and I think it's appropriate
to start out with some big news about probably the
world's most famous lover girl, Taylor Swift. Everyone is still
buzzing from her engagement announcement. Are you a Swift E?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I enjoy her music, but I wouldn't say a Swifty.
I was stoked for her nonetheless, because the poor girl
has gone through it and if that's what you got
at the end of it, like, good kudos to you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's interesting that you bring that up because one of
the things that stood out to me, and I think
why this moment felt so big for her fandom is
because she has gotten her heart broken a lot, but
she still kept her heart open. What do you think
is the biggest lesson that we could all take from
how Taylor Swift approaches love.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I mean, I think the obvious ones are like, don't
settle and you'll find your person, But I think the
more nuanced aspects that I think we could really focus
on is that when you stay true to yourself, you
will welcome people who love that part of you instead
of having to water herself down. Like I think of
songs hers that we can all resonate with because we
feel like we were her or we could connect in
that way, and a lot of them were how she felt,
(05:06):
maybe that she was too much, or that this person
didn't get her or he wasn't there for her, and
it really just shows that like she did work on herself.
I'm sure, like I'm sure she was trying to figure
out her part in it, but she stayed really true
to herself. And that way, when she was able to
meet a man who loves her so much and got
her a five hundred and fifty thousand dollars rain and
proposed and made it this whole thing, it's because she
really waited for the person that was going to see
(05:27):
her for who she was, and she wasn't trying to
become something that she wasn't in order to get somebody else.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So I want to share some recent research on dating
today that I found that I thought was really fascinating.
According to the Pew Research Center, about half of single
adults report they aren't actively seeking a relationship or dating.
When you look at older single women, they are definitely
not looking to date, if we're going to make a
sweeping generalization here. And then also interestingly, young people who've
(05:54):
never been in a relationship aren't really prioritizing love. So
even for the people who have never had that big
they're like meh, I don't know, Yeah, what is your
reaction when you hear this research? As someone who is
so immersed in this space, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I'll be honest, because I see two very interesting sides
of the coin. I see the people that are like
lover girls or boys that really want love, like they
are open, they are receptive, they know, and then the
pendulum goes all the way to the like I'm never
opening my heart up again. Anythink we're seeing a few things. One,
dynamics are shifting in generations. The younger generation. They're not
drinking as much, they're not partying, They're significantly on their
(06:29):
phone a lot more so, they're not connecting as much
in person, which is then going to impact how are
you going to build a relationship. And for a lot
of them, they do the like why bother? It doesn't
mean nobody my age wants anything. And I get that
I was in my twenties before as well. But I
think depending on the generations, what I start to notice
for a lot of people, and the present company included
for a while is when I hear the struggles with
(06:49):
dating and like, oh, I'm never going to find anybody.
I hear a lot of I don't trust myself because
when I trust myself, like if I go out right
now and I need to find a job, I know
that I'm going to get rejected by a lieu of
people because not every job am I going to fit
every single bill. And I always put it in the
perspective of like a salary. If I'm going out and
saying throwing a number, I need one hundred thousand dollars,
I can't live under anything under that, and that's my salary. Well,
(07:12):
if you're going to job interviews and they're saying I
can give you twenty and then you take the job
because you're like, I'll take anything I can get. I
need something, taking that is going to mean your needs
aren't going to be met. You're going to have to
make a ton of sacrifices. And I think when we're
talking about the dating landscape, we're getting further from connection
and more into disconnection of putting our worth and validation
on other people. And dating is really hard and people
(07:33):
waste my time and I can't handle it. But what
you're just really telling yourself is like this is difficult,
which means I can't do it, which means that's what
we're going to continue to keep seeing. So not terribly
shocked to see the numbers, because I think a lot
of us are jaded and struggling and it's really exhausting
and tiring, and I'll never take that away. But I
do also believe that love exists, and I just met
my person at a later time. And I don't think
(07:53):
it's that you can't. I think it's that you need
to shift how you interact with other people and in
love for you to start to see different things.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What's the case for still believing in love in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think we need to understand what that actually looks like.
To be honest, that's the disconnect between are we getting
it are we not? Is that look at our expectations.
If I see one more video on TikTok of like
some twenty two year old coming out and saying, if
a guy doesn't text you every day, drop him, we're
making these sweeping generalizations. Then we're going out and we're
holding people to these unrealistic expectations of you have to
(08:24):
do all of these things before we even go on
a first date. I need to know that you're going
to commit to me. I need to know that you
want me, but then I have to decide if I
want you. And I think twenty twenty five, when I'm hoping,
is that we're normalizing what healthy and secure actually looks like,
and that it's not this gold standard of a couple
that like never fights and everything's magical and hunky dory,
because I could all be guarantee you know, Tan Kelsey
and all that they fight, They get into arguments, because
(08:46):
real couples have real disagreements, because otherwise, if you don't,
you're not speaking up.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You have been in a healthy and secure relationship for
the past three years, now, how has it changed your
view on love?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It changed my view on everything. When I realized that
I was sold a false bill of goods for so long.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Okay, tell me about the false bill of goods.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I was the girl looking at all this stuff, text
this to get this, and I was like, okay, So
I'd send the text and I'm like, my god, it
inappropriate photo back. But I didn't necessarily get like the
date that I wanted. And I was doing things because
what it was was I'm uncomfortable, so I need to
control the outcome to make sure that I get what
I want, and it was moving chess pieces around. Then
when I started to date and take up space, I
started to say no to things I wanted to say
(09:27):
no to instead of saying yes to going out at
ten o'clock, Well, I don't, I'm in pet at eight thirty.
That doesn't work for me. I had to get really
comfortable losing people and grieving the ending of things, including
parts of myself that I had done and I had
showed up as so that I could get people to
like me. Once I started to shift that set boundaries
understand what does a healthy and secure nervous system feel like.
That feels calm, There's not these high highs and low lows.
(09:49):
It means that somebody validates me and listens to me
and holds space for me. It changed everything, and so
I instead of listening to if he wanted to, he would,
and all the quickly catchy things. And I started to
understand it from a human perspective and lens. It started
to open up my world and realize my lived experience
wasn't everybody else's. And so now it's totally shaped the
way I approach things, because sure I've seen it. I
(10:10):
can see couples where I'm like, you're villainizing this person
because they're avoidant and not texting you every day. You're
villainizing this person because they're too anxious and needy. But
what it actually is you're both going back in your wounds,
and if we could sit with that and actually be
able to self soothe, you could have a really beautiful
relationship when you get out of your own way.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So what does define a healthy and secure relationship to you?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
To me, it's that you have reciprocity, so that there's
a reciprocal aspect of both of you and the relationship.
You have conflict and repair, You have comprehension, You understand
what your partner is telling you. And I think the
conflict and repair is the biggest aspect. The Gotman Institute
has been running studies for the last forty plus years
and they found contentment to be one of the biggest
reasons divorces happen. Outside of infidelity and money issues. Most
(10:52):
couples don't get to the root of the issue. They
focus on things. They become more disconnected, They become more
against each other as opposed to getting curious and understanding
each other. I think compassion, curiosity all the seas right.
Getting understanding your partner. Part of a healthy and secure
relationship is I want you in my life, but I
don't need you in my life. And it's a really
strong place to be because you're making conscious choices every
(11:13):
day to choose each other as opposed to I don't
have anybody else, I have to take this.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Do you think that's what's happening right now where a
lot of women in particular are saying, I want you
in my life, but I don't need you in my life. Yeah,
especially in cities where women are out earning men, for example,
that becomes a big thing where a woman feels like
she's not going to be financially supported or she's not
going to check off all the items on her list
if that man doesn't measure up.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think what we're seeing, and I'm not trying to
gender sweeping generalizations, but I think when I'm noticing is
that women are doing so much work on themselves. We
are apt to growing, evolving, and I think we're noticing
now the bare minimum that we've set for the opposite sex.
If we're talking in that gender norm, it's no longer appropriate, right.
The bare minimum for a man can't just be like, oh,
you hold space for me. It's like, is that really
(11:58):
still part of the conversation, and that like my partner
validating me and making me feel safe in our emotional relationship.
That's a luxury. And I think as women, we are
demanding more for our partners, and it's either you're going
to sink or swim. And I think men either take
it as ego and then shut down and I don't
want to do it, and it's the women and they're
the terrible ones, or for some guys, they go into
it's all my fault. I have to do everything versus
(12:20):
I think what a lot of us want is like
we just want someone secure and who they are so
that we can be secure and who we are as well.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
We've got to take a short break, but we'll be
right back with Sabrina Zehar. And we're back with Sabrina Zehar.
Did you have a rigid checklist before you met your
current partner?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I had.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
What was on that checklist?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You had to text me every single day multiple times.
You had to be over sixty three, You had to
make a certain amount. I was like, you have to
make two fifty year higher, which is like, I don't
forget that nummor didn't mean anything for me. The checklists
used to be very shallow. It was a lot of
like they have to be attractive, and they have to
be cool, and they have to have friends in the
neighborhood and they have to have a nice apartment. And
I got all of that and I was miserable. So
(13:01):
then the checklist started to change. I think after my
big X, like after the narcissistic the relationship that ended me,
when I realized, like, no, what I need is somebody
that's not my dad. When I need is somebody that
can actually hold space for the version of me that
I have ADHD and I have a brain that works differently,
and that doesn't mean I need to change it. That
just means that maybe I'm not meeting the right person.
And I think what really changed was in general, what
(13:22):
led me to my partner, and what really changed everything
for me was learning how to take a pause. It
sounds so stupid, of like what really, Yes, I learned
how to take a pause between stimulus and response because
I would just react and I would go right knee
jerk reaction of like you didn't text me how I
want done? I'm talking girl. Within five minutes. If I
text a guy like, hey, do you want to hang
out today, I'd go right back and be like guess not.
(13:44):
Oh no, and then right right, guess not. I wish
you would have told me, And then they'd write back
me like, hey, so I was at a meeting. I
actually was excited to see you, but like not anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Hey, I was in the shower.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was just living. I was breathing. But
I had this rigidity of like, if you don't do it,
oh I want it, then it's wrong. And I had
to then realize like that's black and white thinking. And
that was just a coping defense mechanism for me because
I didn't want to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So how much time passed? How long did it take
you to understand that you were reacting as opposed to responding?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That took me. I've been in therapy for eight and
a half years, so it's taken me. I think the
first step what changed my life. And I hope that
anybody that's listening maybe has this similar story. Was when
my ex left me. I went to a narcissist anonymous
group because I had no money, I had not a pothopus,
and and he left me and I was like, how
am I going to pay half of the rent? Like
I was losing it, and so I had therapy through
a portal. That was the only thing they threw insurance.
(14:34):
And I went to the narcissist group and they were
going around and I was like, oh, no, I want
to share my story. I find find mine out and
they're like, no, no, no something. You're like, you're new, come on,
And I started sharing my story and I said, but
you know, it's all my fault. Anyways, I was like,
it's I'm too much and I pushed him away, and
just those women looked next to me and she's turned
and she said, oh, sweetie, no, that's not okay. And
I was like, what do you mean? And she's like,
(14:56):
so that's called abuse what he did to you. I
had never understood that, and so hearing it allowed me
to say, like, oh, maybe it's not all my fault.
Maybe it's not everything that I've done. And I was
able to start to undo this entire narrative and story
that I created about myself, because that was why I
thought my dad didn't like us, and my dad used
to leave is I couldn't understand anything else, So of
(15:16):
course I thought it was had to have been me.
But as an adult, I realized it was very maladaptive,
that these are people I don't know who they are
and I met them on the internet. I don't think
it's about me.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How did that break through shape the way that you
showed up in dating? Like? What changed for you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That was I started therapy then and started to make
my realizations. I didn't change my behavior then. The awareness
was the first step. I was just I remember my
friend saying, you're painfully self aware, but what are you
going to do with it? And she was right, what
are my choices now? So it first went to awareness
and I had to just become hyper aware. I started
doing yoga, meditation, breath work to be like, okay, this
is where you feel this in your body. So awareness
(15:52):
came first, and then it was still me messing up,
still me doing stupid shit, Still mean sleeping with guys
on the you know, after five minutes of knowing them
because I thought I could connect with my body, texting
too much, becoming hypervigilant. It wasn't until I moved to
California started getting burned by the same type of guys
and then taking that awareness and saying, now, how can
I implement change? And that's what started to say, Okay,
(16:14):
can I think of future me? What does it feel
like to say no? What am I scared of happening
if I say no? And then starting to do that
because we have this misconception that motivation comes before action,
and it doesn't. Motivation comes after action. You do the thing,
and then you're motivated to keep doing it. It doesn't
come before How many of us don't want to go
to the gym, but once you get there, you're motivated
to do it again. And so it was awareness was
(16:35):
the first step, and then it was understanding my nervous
system and accessing what are my choices. I might not
feel like I have any, but I always do.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
At what point would you say this awareness started to
shift the kinds of men that you were attracted to.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It's like, yeah, I remember it, like yesterday it was
one guy, and I remember it was I was in
total Limerens. Like Limrens is kind of the obsession in
the idea of somebody, and people with ADHD can fall
into life. Mont's a lot quicker. Anybody can have it.
But it's really just you know, when you're in limericks,
it's easier to focus on somebody else than it is
to focus on why you're sad and what's coming up
for you. So I could project and deflect all of
(17:10):
my stuff onto other people. And it was just I
was obsessed with him. I was obsessed. I would go
into the neighborhood to make sure he could see me
walking down the street in my cute little outfits. Never
gave me the attention I deserved, like it was just
the U up text at nine thirty, You're like, all right,
I know what's happening. And I remember it lasted nine days,
and I was so proud of myself because I realized
I was able to get curious and I was like, Okay,
why do I like this person? What about this person
(17:31):
do I like? I was like, he's successful, and if
he's successful and cool and he likes me, that makes
me validated. And I was like, oh, so that has
something to do with EA. It has to do with
what you get by being chosen by him. I was
able to undo the narrative and be sable to say, like,
I might want to go over at nine thirty. Of
course I wanted to do that, but I had to
think of future me and say, but does this a
ligne with where I'm going now. The woman I am
(17:51):
is I want a man that makes plans with me.
I want a man that's consistent. I want a man
that shows up. I want a man that is honest
and reciprocal or other, right, whatever your pronoun is. That
didn't align with it, which meant I had a choice.
And that's when I started to see. Because then I
ended that early, and then I went to the next guy,
started to see he's emotional unavailable. Then I put a
boundary up that didn't work. Every single time. It impacted
me less and less because I started to realize, like,
(18:13):
it doesn't mean anybody is the problem, We're just not
a match. And it shifted it. I'd made it instead
of a personal thing, I started to depersonalize it and say, like,
you're an amazing person and so are they. It's just
this isn't the lining.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I want to know what it was like when you
started allowing yourself to let go of some of that
rigidity around what you were looking for. How fast did
it happen? Did it happen instantaneously when you met your partner?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Oh no, when I met Ryan, I wasn't not into
him and I've been honest about that. Like I thought
he was a nice guy, but he's incredibly He's the
polar opposite of every guy I've ever dated. He's extremely
like more ocd rigid. He's very like, very closed off.
He doesn't let people in as quickly. And I'm super
warm and engaging and I talk and I'm showing up
and this guy's barely talking. But he would make these
(18:58):
little jokes where I was like, why he's it's really funny.
I was like, Okay, maybe I just like, maybe I
just give him a chance. And I just kept reminding
myself healthy and secure love doesn't mean that I feel
the butterflies. It can also be very calm. But then
he kissed me, and all of a sudden, I was like, oh,
I do kind of feel something for him. But it
was always very stable. He said boundaries very quickly on
he was not going to engage in the digital stuff.
(19:20):
But prior to that, I thought, for a while I
just needed to date a nice person. And then my
mama is the one who told me. She's like, you
don't need to do charity work, you don't need to
be with someone just because they're nice. You can have
both you can like them and they can treat you well.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Is it as simple as dating someone who's the complete
opposite of all your past partners?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I wish it was as simple. I think it's because
here's the funny thing is like Ryan might be very
different than a lot of people on the outside, but
the way I felt in certain moments, like he would
be dismissive or he could shut down, it was very
similar to my dad. And so I had to be
aware to go whoa I could collecting and I can
go right back into those modes of like then I
become the little girl, and then it wasn't worth it,
(19:59):
And so we had to be very aware of that.
But I think what it is somebody wrote in actually
the other day saying, listening to the podcast, I met
a man that was totally on my type and we're
getting married in a month, and she was like, I'm
freaking out, Like I never thought this is going to
be my life, and I'm so grateful. It's less about like, oh,
I normally go for six or five blonde, so I'm
going to go for five seven brunette. It's like, okay, no,
But what it is it's about saying maybe their personality
(20:21):
is a little different than what I normally used to. Normally,
I'm used to the big, gregarious personality, but maybe they're
more reserved. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. What
I want to look at is how does my nervous
system feel. I'm really relaxed. I feel like I can
be myself. I don't really care how you feel about them.
I care you feel with them, because how you feel
about them can be skewed. Right, They're really hot, they
have a six pack. I really like them versus Oh,
but I don't feel great with them. I feel really dismissed.
(20:42):
It's like something that's what we want to focus on.
So it does happen incrementally, But I would focus on
do I feel different with this person because a lot
of people confuse healthy with boring. I' like I didn't
feel sparked, and it's like, great, I don't want you
to feel spark it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Well, I have obviously been out of the dating game
for many of many years, about fifteen years now, but
we do have these nine year old fantasies of what
love is right, oh yeah, and then if that gets
denied or rejected, so many different times and transmuted, and
you have all these confusing romantic experiences. I'm sure it
(21:15):
can become hard to know what to look for.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I usually start with what did you used to accept
that you're no longer willing to allow?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And I like, oh wait, slow down, let me hear
that again. Run it back, run it back.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
What did you use to accept that you're no longer
willing to allow? Okay, yes, so it's a good place
to start. Yeah, of like, oh, I used to accept
someone that was disrespectful, no longer willing to That's part
of the non negotiable list of like I'm no longer
That's what I did as the list kept going and
be like heading that to the bottom of it, like
they must do this perfect, Like they have to hold
(21:48):
space when I come to them and not deflect. That's
important to me. It's a really good place to start,
because I get it. It can be overwhelming, and I'm going
to be the first person to say, like, I was
in the trenches for fifteen years on and off. I
had my longest reallyationship was nine months before Ryan, So
I know what it feels like. Take the breaks when
you need. It's Okay, you're not on any timeline. You'll
meet your person. You met your heart'spen fifteen years ago,
(22:09):
I met mine three Some people are meeting theirs today.
There is no timeline. What it's about is like, are
you living for you or are you living for a relationship.
Those are two different life experiences. And so if you
love yourself more than they need to be loved by
other people, then you'll be able to actually be in
the moments and present and where your head and your
feet will be in the same place. When you're always
in the past or in the future, you're not actually
(22:29):
able to be in the now.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We've got to take a short break, but we'll be
right back with Sabrina Zohar, and we're back. And when
I think about that now, I keep coming back to
the dating landscape, the picture that we painted at the
beginning of this conversation, right. I really wanted this episode
to be a love letter to single women who are
navigating the trenches themselves. So for someone who has been dating,
(22:56):
it's not been working out. They've been getting their heart broken,
getting their hopes up, have them dashed again. What is
Sabrina's guide to resetting your love life.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The first thing I think is like reminding yourself that
you're not broken or something to fix. And I think,
because we think that I am damaged goods, I'm broken,
there must be something wrong with me. And it's like, no,
here's the thing. You can take accountability and ownership, right,
we can take stock of what is mine to own.
So when I talk about my ex, I don't sit
there and say he's a narcissist and he did all
those things? Sure, what was my part in it? I
(23:27):
didn't have boundaries. I allowed it. I was in my
own stuff. He reminded me and my father it felt safe.
You notice how I'm taking accountability, but I'm not blaming
myself and belitting on myself. The fun fact is if
you show yourself compassion, you will actually release more dopamine
than if you did by waiting for somebody else to
text you or to get it externally. So how can
we start to turn that inwards of what can I
(23:47):
take ownership of? What can I take accountability of? What
are my patterns and what have I seen repeating and
then starting to look at okay, then what do I
need to change for me? I kept dating emotionally and
available men. I wonder why, because I was too scared
to talk about my needs, I didn't take up space.
I would go on ten dates with these people, sleep
with them, give them full access to me, with terrified
(24:08):
to say that I wanted a relationship. And so I
had to take stock of that and say, now what
are my choices? Okay, my choices are I can tell
them sooner great, And so I did that. It didn't
work out, but that didn't mean I was like, it's
all hell in a hand basket. It was great, while
I'm wasting less of my time by not engaging in this.
So I think it's also reframing that sure you can
think the worst, but you can also think the best,
(24:29):
and like, what if here's a crazy thought, what if
all of these situations that didn't work out have just
been preparing you for what is Because the more space
we take on things that aren't for us, the less
space that there is for what is for us, and.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Helping you draft a checklist that really is what you deserve.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
One hundred percent. I always look at as like you
can't rebuild a building with ashes, so you have to
start again and be the phoenix that rises, so that
if I'm sitting at rubble and I was.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I was a shell of a human. My partner left me.
I'm thirty pounds less lighter than I am. My business
in shambles, I had no money. I thought that was it,
my life was over. But it was actually an opportunity
for me to rebuild myself, and it took me eight
years to do so. And so the moral of the
story isn't that it's going to take you eight years.
It's that you have this life. And so if we're
going to be living it for other people, but I'm
not in the moment, I'm not going to get these
(25:15):
times back. And so for me, I wanted to fall
in love with my life and with me, which meant
accepting myself and validating my emotions and feelings and not
belitterally myself and putting myself down like everyone else I'd
always done my life.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
We always talk about the don'ts of dating, but I'm curious,
are there any mistakes that you think women should make
in their dating lives that can serve them later on? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
For me, I think it's take up space, and I
don't even if that's a mistake. I I'm so grateful.
I'm not telling anybody that they've to do this, but
I'm really grateful in my twenties that, like I experienced
a lot, I dated, I slept around. Like I'm not
say again, not saying that everyone has to do that,
but I was able to explore my sexuality, my sensuality,
what it is that I liked and didn't So by
the time I got to my thirties, I was like,
(25:57):
I know who I am, I know what it is.
And so for me think the only mistake that women
can continue to make is playing small because for so
long we have to be the nice girl, we have
to be the good girl. We have to be. I
grew up with go say hi to everybody. You need
to go and say help, hug your uncle exactly, yeah, hug,
go and do all this. No, be a good don't
ruffle their feathers. Don't do this. That I think is
the mistake that we do is when we continue to
(26:18):
bring in the shame that maybe at one point when
we were kids worked because we had someone that wasn't
available to us in the ways that we need. But
that is not going to give me the relationship that
you want in your adult life.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What you just describe is what gives me hope about
being a woman today and why I think it's really
exciting to be a woman today because I see us
undoing the obligations that were placed upon us by our moms.
No fault of their own and their moms, but it's
a really exciting time in terms of the grand scheme
of women's operation.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
That's how I feel like. I know a lot of
people look and say dating is the worst now and
it's the worst it's ever been, And I'm like, or
or or here's a thought. My mama couldn't leave my
father for years because she didn't have anyheur to go exactly,
there was no internet. She even said, she's like, what's
the word narcissist? Do you think anyone ever told me?
She's like, they just told me I wasn't pleasing your
father and to go back in and do more. Right now,
(27:07):
I feel like we get choices. I can say I'm
thirty five and out of one kids, I don't have
to if I don't want to. I get to take
up that space. I can educate myself. I can learn,
but like anything, the pensulum can swing right with all
of the good then we can go into the right
let's not abuse it. But I personally think it's a
much more empowering place because we're no longer just like
you got to get married and have kids of twenty
no go. We get to choose if this is the
(27:29):
life that we want, and at any point we can
say it's not. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I love that too. That's the right side of dating, y'all. Yeah. So,
one of the reasons why I love listening to your show,
Sabrina is because of the specificity of the scenarios that
your listeners bring to you and the way that you
just so definitely navigate it just off the dome with
the most sage advice. So I have a couple of
scenarios that we've come up with that's going to run
(27:55):
by you. Yeah, you talked about this on social media recently.
What is the text that you would write for some
one who is being breadcrumbed?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
For me?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I'm big on getting the clarity because you'll get what
you want or what you need, And so I go
in of like, hey, I noticed a shift in our dynamic.
Am I picking up on that correctly? You're not accusing
anybody I hear it all the time. Of well, they
used to text every day. So what you're saying is
there's a shift in the dynamic. You used to text
me every day, multiple times a day. Now I barely
hear from you. Not accusing you, I'm not coming at you.
I'm not saying, oh, why are we doing this. I'm
(28:23):
giving you the space to be able to let me know.
So I get curious. We want to explore the other person,
because here's the thing. If they still leave you confused
and go I've just been busy. You've got your answer.
You don't need to keep going.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, Let's say you've been dating someone for about three months. Yep,
they're in the middle of a messy divorce, custody battle,
kind of a complex living situation with their ex. They
are officially getting a divorce. It's not happening with the ex.
They are showing interest in you, but they're not sure
yet if they're ready to commit.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The minute you told me going through a divorce messy
s all that, I was like, run, don't walk.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Run.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The reason I say that isn't because that person doesn't
deserve love. Of course they do. They're not in a
headspace and they don't have the bandwidth when they are
dealing with We are like a battery. You only have
so much energy in a day before you need to recharge.
And somebody that one is newly divorced. So if they
have complications trying to figure this out, trying to figure
that out, have they processed the ending of the divorce?
Have they been alone? I see this all the time,
(29:22):
especially in divorces, where it'll be either one person leaves
and says but they moved on and almost immediately, And
what I usually see is it's not gonna work, and
it very rarely doesn't.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
This.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Of course sometimes it does, but more often than not,
when someone moves on in a couple of days and
is already dating somebody else, they're bypassing. So what will
happen is like usually a lot of people will rush
into something because they're used to having someone every day,
and then you see it all of a sudden, two
months in, they're like, you know, I realized, I don't
know if I'm actually ready for this. I'm still realizing
I'm just I haven't been single. Spare yourself and just
(29:53):
let that person know, you know what, go out and
sew your oads, call me when you're actually ready to
be in another relationship, because they have to deal with
their stuff and be with themselves before they can welcome
someone in, because if it didn't work in the relationship,
what have they learned that we don't have those problems?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So good. Last one going back to what we talked
about earlier, which is the reality that a lot of
women are out earning men, specifically in certain cities around
the country right now. So let's say someone has opened
themselves up to dating someone who might not be at
their same financial level. You're wrapping up a date with them,
(30:27):
the bill comes, he asks to split it. Is that
worth exploring? Is there potential there?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I think if that's the only knock I can maybe
have a conversation. It just pains me because first date,
I look at it as whoever asked the person on
the date is the one that should pay. If you
asked me from my time, then I'm expecting that you're
going to pay for the fact that I'm there. If
I ask you out, if I'm like, hey, I want
to see you come, then that means I'm prepared to
(30:54):
pay because it was my idea. If literally that's the
only box they don't check. I would just get curious
about because, like, I know when my partner when we
first met, I didn't have a pot to pissen. And
he was in tech, so he was making pretty good
money and he lost his job like two months later.
It was tech, you know, they went through the fired
thirty percent of the company, and so after that he
was in a tighter financial situation. I was making so
(31:15):
much more money. I was my business, my career was growing.
But I had to be okay knowing that one it
was momentary and two like there were times where he
was like, I'm sorry, I can't take you out, like
I don't have you, I'm unemployment. I was understanding of that.
I think it's about are they frugal or cheap?
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Are they just saying like hey, you know, I totally understand,
Like since I've heard of the opposite, I've heard women
say I'm a feminist and I don't want anyone to
pay for me. So I think to the point, you
can also be honest of like, oh you want to
split this. I thought you were taking me out to dinner,
And then that way if they're like, oh, well, I don't.
Then you can start to see how do they see partnership,
because maybe they see partnership as tit for tativ. I
(31:50):
don't need to take care of you and you're into pet.
That might not work for me because I don't want
a person with that mindset. I would say to look
at how they handle it and if it's just a note,
like if you're just if at that point you were
on sure, then the check comes and they do that,
I don't think you need a second date.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Kind I have to agree with you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know, it's not my ideal. I will be the
first to say, but I definitely have had it where
some guys don't. And you're like, okay, I kind of
want to get the benefit of the doubt. But first
date is so ghost to not pay it really is right,
it really is. It's fine maybe yeah, but the first.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Date my husband went Dutch, asked us to go to
Dutch on the second date, yeah, he in even that.
I was like, this is not looking good for you, buddy,
but sung in there and we're doing great.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's exactly what I mean by like if that was
if there was all these other red flags and then
that comes and you're like, no, I'm out of here.
But you're like, oh, I like this person. I can
overlook this. I think there's bigger fresh to fry because
now my partner I like, it's thee irony. I pay
his salary because he works for me. Yeah, I earn
both of us, but he cooks and cleans in the
house and I take care of other things, Like we
have a diet. It works beautifully for us because I
(32:52):
don't cook, but he does. Great. It doesn't mean that
you have to have specific gender norms. It means that
you and your partner need to have things that each
one of you do that make it work.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, and a willingness I think, just a willingness to
come to the table and be open one hundred percent.
So since we're talking about love letters to our single selves,
what do you think you would want to say in
a love letter to single Sabrina?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Oh, I talk to her all the time?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You really do you still do?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I do it all the time. I write letters to
myself on Insta, like I do stories all the time.
I'll find a photo of myself and I think today
is was about like, I am so proud of you
for trying to keep me safe. And I am so
grateful and proud of you for trying to be loved
by other people, But you don't need to do that anymore.
All of those versions of me seven years old was
my responsibility was never to figure out how to be loved.
(33:38):
That was never my job. And so I have to
let her know I'm so sorry that I left you
to do that job. But I'm now here. I'm the mama.
I'm the one to take care of everything, and you
are amazing as you are, and I'm the one that's
going to make choices for us. And every single day
I remind her of that.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
I love that you do that as a practice.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
And it's not even because a lot of people when
I ask, usually the responsible, but what would you say,
They're like, everything turns out fine, you're safe, You're okay,
And I'm like, not true. Not to mention, I'm like,
if I sold you that, would you believe me?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Well, you're gaslighting yourself because when you're telling yourself there's
no issues, you're fine, Well, that version of you doesn't
believe that. So maybe we can hold space and say
I'm listening, what do you want to tell me?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Also, every woman knows that when you say you're fine,
you're not.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You're right, that's like I'm good, You're like, oh, she's not.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
She's definitely not good, definitely not fine. I love to
end each of our conversations here on the bright side
by asking our guests to take a moment to shine.
So I'm going to ask you what are you celebrating
in your life right now?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
My first book, I can't believe it is. That is
It's something that I'm still wrapping my head around. So
I just turned it in like two.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Days ago, just turned it in. Oh my gosh, I'm there.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah, So I'm like a year as or that that phase.
I am celebrating in the fact that I found myself
and I continue to find myself every single day, and
I'm a human Like I have moments where where you're like,
I'm going to delete everything. I'm done, I don't want
to do anything. Yeah, but I remember who I am,
and I just I don't stand up to bullies anymore.
And I feel like I've I feel like I'm the
closest to who I really am now than I've ever
been in my life. So I'm celebrating that I.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Am so happy for you. I can't wait to read
your book. And this book is going to be a
huge success. I just I can feel it, I hope.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So it's about patterns, it's not about people think it's
gonna be about dating relationships. I'm like, it's about a
chapter of it, but the rest of it is like,
how do you show up for you? And where did
you learn this from?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Because that's what dating is actually about.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
It's the foundation to set before you get out there.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
See, I'm part of the School of Sabrina. I'm not
a graduate, but I'm one of the students. Thank you,
Sabrina for coming on the bright side.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Sabrina Zohar is a dating coach and host of the
podcast The Sabrina Zohar Show. You can find more of
her amazing advice on Instagram and TikTok oh. One more thing.
The time is almost here, folks, come join me and
the brightest female founders, thinkers, and creatives at Shinaway. If
you've been, you know Shineaway is more than just an event.
(35:52):
And if you haven't been yet, what are you waiting for?
It is a two day celebration that invites you to
step into a world of joy, depth and discovery. The
lineup is out now and I cannot wait to see
all my faves like Morning Show starr Karen Pittman, Power Pause,
author Naja Rouche, and I'll also be sitting down for
a special edition of the bright Side with entrepreneur Chrissy Teakin.
(36:14):
Plus if you're like me and reading along with Reese's
book Club, get ready to go behind the scenes with
authors like Rainbow Rowel and Temby Lock. It's all going
down October eleventh and twelfth in Los Angeles and tickets
are selling fast, so get here is now. The bright
Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts
and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce.
(36:37):
Production is by a Cast Creative Studios. Our producers are
Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, Abby Delk, and Darby Masters. Our
production assistant is Joya putnoy A Casts Executive producers are
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon
are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry and
(36:58):
Lauren Hansen are the executive produce users for iHeart podcasts
our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lakehouser
Host
Simone Boyce
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