June 21, 2023 • 56 mins
Justin and Carter discuss what could occur for the Cleveland Cavaliers during the 2023 Draft and what reasonable expectations should be for a rookie on this team. As well as the reports of the team examining all options available to reposition themselves within the draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to it's being what Carl slamming it out,
Carl left wing, reball.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Perfect dar pop, the half block, the shot at the rim,
pow with the left hand and a fowl. Welcome to
the Chasetown Podcast, part of the kas Media family. I'm
your host, Justin Browan. The Chase Doown is presented by
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(00:29):
It is draft week. We're recording this on Tuesday night.
The NBA Draft is just two nights away. You're probably
listening to this on Wednesday. And we promised that we
would bring on a draft expert, somebody that knows what
they're talking about, and we do not have that. We
have Carter Rodveguez and said, Carter, how you doing, Buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Doing good? Buddy? Tell you what not easy to book
a draft analyst when you have the forty ninth pick
in the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's not sexy. The forty ninth pick is say.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
These guys they they I don't think they did. You know,
there's an inherent you know Two Way Street in the
guest game. You know, hey, we're giving you a little
exposure to a new audience. Forty nine. There is not
enough juice in that squeeze justin.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So I like to be transparent, you know this. I
like to level with the audience. And I gotta say
we accept some responsibility here. It's been a bit tough
sletting some of our draft friends were not available. Some
of this is on our availabilities.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well, yeah, you know, not canceled.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, we cann o'clock.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is tough.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
He canceled on a good guest because of timing, and
then when we were able to pivot to that time,
they were no longer free. So we will have a
draft expert on next week to break down whoever the
Cavs do end up picking. But honestly, I do think
this is a little bit fitting. We are going to
dive into kind of some of the tears. Our friend
(01:55):
friend of the podcast Sambassini, does a wonderful draft guide
right now. The Athletics subscriptions on for a dollar, So
if you want to support what he's doing, perfect time
to go do that, because really thorough breakdowns are on there.
But this is probably the weirdest draft in talking about
the calves that I think we've gone into because you know,
throughout the Lebron run didn't really pay a whole lot
(02:17):
of attention, you know, but even during that time, a
lot of times there there was a higher pick, you know,
Jeddi Osman in the second round going in with the
forty ninth pick, and some of the reporting that's been
around the team that hey, they're looking at options to
potentially move into the first round. Brian Windhors today said
that the Caves are in fact looking to trade into
the first round, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're looking
(02:38):
to draft a player there. That pick could be used
in any separate deal. There's so many options as we go
into this draft night that really really makes it a
unique night. It's exciting. It's possible that nothing happens and
we just pick at forty nine. There's just so many possibilities,
and I feel like it's almost a little bit fitting
(02:58):
that we're going to sit here and try to do
our very best to break down what may occur on
draft night.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
The reality is, like I remember feeling this way at
fourteen that we were like, man, there's so many permutations.
It kind of feels impossible to lock in on any
group of prospects, you know. I mean we were doing
big boards of like ten conceivable calves draftees yea last
(03:29):
year and that list is seventy. Now it's not seventy.
The top forty probably will not be around, but you
get what I'm saying, it's going to be. It's gonna
be interesting. And you know that doesn't even weigh in
the fact that they could trade, you know, into a
pick into the twenties. So you know, I think the
best we can do is kind of look at all
(03:50):
those permutations of where we think the Calves might go
with what might you know, be worth it, what might
not be worth it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, And I want to start this off by asking
you a question because I think in general you and
I are kind of best player available mindset when it
comes to drafts, just because talent is the hardest thing
to add, and if you hit on your picks, it's
going to open up possibilities. Even if the fit can
be weird, it can open up possibilities. But given what
(04:18):
the Calves have in terms of infrastructure, given that we
do have, you know, a core four, we have in
all likelihood Carousel a Vert. There's no reason to indicate
that he's not part of the Cavs plans. You have
Isaaca Korrol, you got options. Do you still kind of
feel like taking the best player available mentality when we're
going into this draft, whether it's in the twenties, whether
(04:38):
it's at forty nine, whether it's in the thirties, what
is your mindset going into this draft?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well, I'll start within the forties because that's the most
likely outcome still by a lot. I am pretty surprised
that so many, like the Calves have had a few
big smock to them, and people are like, how many
centers do just Kobe all one? You know? And I'm like,
I guess I get it. You know, they have the
two bigs in the front court to start, and you know,
(05:07):
they drafted Job last year, they drafted Mobili last year.
But like after the playoffs, we just saw where the
Cavs had, you know, maybe six and a half guys
they really trusted to perform for them. I don't think
you could possibly turn your nose up at any position,
(05:27):
Cuz if you draft a backup point guard. If you
find out Andrew Nimhard, who was in the second round
last year, you'd be like, oh, wow, awesome, we have
a this guy might be able to play for us.
So this team is not so deep. It's not like
they're one wing away where if they add another big
there's no chance they'll ever play, or if they add
(05:49):
a point guard there's no chance they'll ever play. I
think there's just as good you know, I think they have.
There's just as good of a chance at any position,
any archetype of finding minutes if they take it. Like
Tristan Vuksovich, whose name I'm guessing on how to pronounce,
shooting center, Yeah, a three point shooting center. Like why
(06:09):
can't if he's a good basketball player, which you're lucky
to find it forty five or at least an NBA
caliber good basketball player. Uh, why can't he played on
this team? You know? Like, I feel like there's a
lot of I feel like there's still a lot of
frustration in the fan base based on how the roster
(06:32):
building kind of went after the Donovan Mitchell trade, you know,
not trading for more shooting, standing pat at the deadline,
et cetera, that there's just a bit of a rush
to be grumpy before they really think about what they're
grumpy about.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I think rush to be grumpy makes sense. I
think that comes a little bit with a territory when
you start to have expectations. Yeah, I'm going to somewhat
agree with you, Carter, but I also want to disagree
just a little bit because depending where they're picking. If
let's say the most likely outcome here is that they're
picking at forty nine, right when you're at that point,
(07:11):
I do think you can go for the highest upside
swing that you think is available there, regardless of position.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I would say that would be best available player. I
think that's the same.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Thing because yeah, no, and I agree with you, you take
best player available at that situation because in all likelihood,
the context of the team doesn't matter. If we're picking
at forty nine, I don't think there's any way that
this player gets rotation minutes for the Calves next season.
You're likely looking at a two way talent, maybe someone
that's going to play overseas that's going to be getting opportunity.
(07:43):
So I'm not really thinking about how does there how
likely are they to develop within the context of the
Calves existing roster. Now, if there were an opportunity to
move up in the second round and you get to
a different tier or prospect where you're like, hey, you
know what, maybe this is a guy that could get
some end of bench minutes that could fit into the
(08:04):
rotation to some extent, I think I do start to
think about fit a little more than a strictly best
player available mentality, because you have to think about your
ability to develop that specific talent, and I don't think
when you get later in the draft, I don't think
it's ever going to be clear who the best player
available is. I'm sure people will have very firm takes,
(08:27):
but for the most part, you're talking about very similar
caliber prospects and it's all going to come down to
your player development and how likely you are to help
them reach their ceiling. So I do think if you're
in arrange to take somebody like that, or maybe there's
even a draft night slide where a guy falls, if
you're taking guy with the expectation that he's going to
(08:47):
have a role on the Calves, that he's going to
have a roster spot among the Calves next year, I
do think fit needs to come into some consideration because
I think that is going to impact how you are
able to develop them and whether or not you can
get them minutes on the court.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, that's totally fair, you know, And that's why I
kind of answered for in the forties first, because the
reality is, guys, you have to go look at like
success charts for picks forty five through sixty. You know,
I'm you look at their chances of just making it
three seasons in the league. It's very low. A lot
(09:27):
of guys drafted at the end of the second round
never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball. So anything
they can find here that's of interest is pretty good.
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
If I can watch a highlight tape and it gets
me a little bit excited, I'm going to take that
as a win at forty eight. Yeah, So, like I
think you just got to find a player that your
front office thinks, you know, like this happens a lot
in football, where you kind of hear what teams big
boards are after, like and you know, you always hear
about like football teams like getting someone in the seventh
(10:03):
that they had a fifth round grade on or something
like that, Like that's what you're looking for if you're
the Cops front office, is who's the guy that's one
of your scouts likes better than everyone else and you know,
ideally it's a scout you trust, and you go and say, hey,
you know this is a low risk swing, but you
(10:26):
know John Johnny here in the scouting department loves, loves
this guy, and so we're gonna take a shot at him.
And like, I think that's kind of what you're looking
to find because you can find players. I'm not saying
you can't find players, and you can't find rotation players,
and like there's a long history of really good players
that were drafted in the second round all over the
second round.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's just the odds are low. So from a percentages perspective,
you just can't get your hopes up, and you certainly
can't be like, well, we really like this guy, but
we got a lot of sinners. We picked a center
last year. Now I just gotta take him, because you know,
if one of if they draft a center and one
of Isaiah Mobi Khalifa job and this guy and whoever
(11:09):
they end up drafting ends up being a playable NBA
player on a team that's good. What a huge win.
So that's kind of where I stand on that. Yeah,
I agree, And to go to Sam's big board, he
does tiers, which I absolutely love. You know that I
love tiers over ranking, and in the forty three to
fifty three player range. He defines that tier as kind
(11:33):
of priority two way wings, so guys that are likely
going to get a two way contract and will be
somewhat part of team's plans. So I think that's kind
of the caliber player that you're hoping to get. At
forty nine and looking at his big board chart, the
one thing that jumped out to me immediately is in
that eleven player range, seven of those guys are ring wings.
I should say, maybe they'll help win a ring. We'll
(11:55):
see about that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And four of them are above average three point shooters
as well. Some of these names have been connected to
the Cats. Julian Strather, he's a forty six ranked prospect
for Sam, really good three point shooter, as well as
Hunter Tyson, the interesting player, Seth lundy forty seven. They're
all kind of in that range, and to me, that
(12:17):
makes it interesting. Some of the other names that we've
heard reported by Chris Fiedor and others that may be
in consideration at that spot, as you mentioned Carter, Tristan Vutsvich,
He's Sam's fifty eighth rank prospect, and Amony Baits, who
is definitely divisive. He's ranked as the sixty ninth prospect,
(12:37):
I imagine just because of high school pedigree and the
perception of upside. I think he's going to go higher
than that. It won't even surprise me if he went
higher than forty nine. But I want to know if
you have any thoughts on Amony Baits Carter, because that
seems to be one of the guys that gets brought
up most frequently just because he does have that microwave
scorer ability.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean, I just I feel like he's one
of those guys that at a personal level, And I'm
no expert here, so you know, you really shouldn't color
this too much, but I feel like there are high
talent guys who fall in college because of situation or
opportunity or injury.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Ye, I mean a little bit of all that.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, and then there's guys who just aren't as good,
you know, there's you know, they go against players who
are as developed as they are or seventy five percent
as developed as they are, and they're just not good enough.
And I feel like Baits is one of the is
the latter, and I think there's a reason. You know,
like you look at the draft community and if they
have a bias, it's towards pedigree. Yeah, and you know,
(13:45):
guys like that tend to be ranked decently high on
Draft Experts boards, you know, because they've been tracking these guys.
You got to remember, these guys didn't just hear about
him on the Baits. They've been watching him since he
was fifty years old.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
In anticipation of him being a lottery pick. I remember.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So the fact that you know he's out of the
top sixty for a lot of guys that I respect,
it's just more confirmation that I just don't think he's
got the juice. He went to Eastern Michigan and played
in the MAC and justin god knows, if anyone in
this whole wide world loves some action, it's me. But
(14:26):
like he wasn't a particular league, elite player in the
MAC where he really should have. You know, he had
a healthy shot diet and you know, could could play
against significantly less athletic players than he was playing out
in his freshman year. And so to me, that just
(14:46):
guy feels bound for Europe to me, and he would
not be my pick. But what the hell do I
know you're going to give him the Adam Silver mean
of get ready to learn Canadian buddy. Maybe he could
be a Sea Bears story for god, I would love
to see him on the Sea Bears.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, he's interesting because I think that he's someone I
believe in his shooting ability based on kind of what
I've seen. I think he's someone whose percentages are very
much based on the quality of attempts he takes, and
some of that is, you know, ability to generate quality attempts.
He's not a spectacular athlete. He doesn't finish well at
the rim defense. He isn't there at this point at
(15:27):
forty nine. Honestly, I would be fine with it as
a swing if you just don't believe that there's a
lot of talent that's worthwhile. That's a quote unquote safer pick.
You're not getting a safe pick at forty nine.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But yeah, and for what it's worth, thirty eight percent
shooter on catch and shoot threes. Yeah, like at six
at six ' nine, Like, not that bad.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, you can talk yourself into that, right, can catch
and shoot three point shooter six ' nine. That is
the type of player that the Cavs or have been
looking for, right. But looking at the board, it is
kind of encouraging though to see a few names in
that range that are wings that shoot the ball well
from three and for me, like, I just feel like
the cass needs such a specific skill set and they're
(16:12):
four guys in particular are just so damn good. I
know people get caught up with the Knick series, but
those guys are so damn good that the needs that
we need from a pick from a guy that's going
to play spot minutes aren't that dramatic. We don't need
the most well rounded player. We need someone that's going
to go out there and knock down open looks because
(16:32):
they're going to get open looks. We talked about this
earlier when we were doing our reports and reviews of
the season. Jenni Osmin was in the eighty seventh percentile
when it comes to how open his three point looks are.
You're going to get very good looks on the cast
if you're a catch and shoot player, And to me,
it's somewhat interesting, and it's worth noting that guys are
there in that range, but who knows, maybe there is
(16:54):
an opportunity to potentially trade up. Even looking at the
second round, Vicini has the picks thirty seven to forty
two as second round guarantee swing, so guys that he thinks,
you know, once you get in the second round, no
matter where you're mocked, there's always a chance you go
on drafted. These are guys that he feels confident are
(17:15):
going to end up in the second round, and only
one of them, Brandon Pozemski, is the only one in
that range that projects to be or is currently an
above average three point shooter. But you know, Jalen Wilson
Jordan Walsh are the two other wings in that range.
So after that, he's got a big tier carter. And
(17:36):
to me, this is the most fascinating thing when we're
talking about the Cavs examining all options, he has picks
seventeen through thirty six as the same kind of tier
in general in this draft, which is rotational players with upside,
And to me, that's really interesting. And again I looked
at how many of those players within that twenty player range.
(17:57):
How many are wings fourteen out of the twenty. To me,
that's a really really encouraging thing. And there's guys in
there that that can knock down some shots as well. Yeah, Jesus,
it got you emotional talking about the trash Carter.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, you know when you're when you're talking about now, Yeah,
I And what you really hope is that some of
these teams uh in the in the late twenties, early
thirties start making runs on picks for need that are
looking to chase some bigs or chase some guards, and
maybe a few of those wings fall. But man, it's
(18:35):
just so variable.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I still really like the idea of Buksovic, you know,
who is a bit of a weird player, And I'm
kind of I feel like with the Cabs, you really
at forty nine, you really are looking at weird players
like Baits who you know, gosh hot forty five percent
at the rim. I was just reading that while you
were talking forty in the mac ah Ah or Buksovich,
(19:03):
who is who can shoot the absolute lights out at
seven foot but is gonna really struggle to defend at
the NBA level. Just just not move super well and
it's not a great jumper. You know, you hope that
the Calves maybe are a team to help insulate a
guy like that with with their uh, with their length
and defensive systems. So yeah, it's just gonna be a
(19:26):
really variable draft experience where like man maybe, but maybe
someone falls big time. You know, we just don't know,
you know, I think at e J. Ladell last year
where a lot of people were like, could he be
like seventeen, Then he fell into the second round before
he got hurt, So you just and the other thing
(19:47):
that the Cabs have in their favor is, you know,
there's gonna be a lot to talk about trading up,
and we can jump into that in a minute, but like, yes,
they're gonna be looking for a first pick, but it's
also a lot easier to move from forty nine to
thirty seven, you know, and go get a second round.
(20:08):
Or you really really liked it, maybe you did have
a you know, a guy that maybe you had like
twentieth on your big board that has fallen all the
way into the second round. So I'd keep an eye
on activity pretty much the whole way through because this
kind of team is just going to be looking for talent,
and you know, whatever ways they can to chase that.
I think they're going to try to explore.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, and we may see a situation like last year
right where they add another second round pick, and who knows,
Like sometimes teams will add another second round pick in
anticipation of maybe a prospect's going to fall, and we're
going to be able to consolidate those two picks and
trade up into the late first round if a guy
is there, and if the guy isn't there, Hey, you
got an extra second round pick. You can maybe use
(20:50):
the later one for a draft in stash and then
use the higher pick to select somebody that you might
be a little more keen on that you were hoping
is there at forty nine, right, Like, there's going to
be a lot of options, and I think you're right
to kind of highlight that, Hey, you are going to
need to be tuned in the whole time. I won't
be tuned in the whole time, Carter, full disclosure, because
we got a bomber game going on, So I'm going
(21:11):
to be in attendance of that, but I'm going to
be checking.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
My phone all night of little Faith.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, look, I'm not going to sit home waiting for
the forty ninth pick and missed the game. But no, no, no,
of course not. We got BC in town, buddy, We're
going to watch this. But yeah, there are a lot
of options available in I guess we should talk about
the potential of a trade up. It's something that's been reported.
Chris Fiedor mentioned that the teams most frequently that he's
(21:38):
heard that there's been discussions with are Brooklyn, Portland, Indiana,
and Charlotte. The thing that I immediately noted with all
of those teams teams with multiple first round picks. Brooklyn's
got twenty two and twenty one, Portland obviously at three
as well as twenty three, Indiana twenty six via the
carousel vert trade twenty nine as well, and Charlotte's got
(22:00):
picked twenty seven. So when you're looking at it from
a cave standpoint, got Jetti Osmond reports our contract becomes
guaranteed on June twenty ninth. That might have a peel
for a team looking to move salary. And then outside
of the core, you know it's Dean Wade, Ricky Rubio,
isaac Ocoro, five second round picks. I can't really see
(22:23):
anyone that's a prominent part of the Calves rotation, and
that probably includes Acoro being moved for just a pick.
But you know, as you're evaluating all of these assets,
I do think it's worth at least listing all of
these guys. As much as I hate that side of
the business and that side of talking about the game, Yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Hard would you be trying if you're the Calves, Because like,
at first glance, it sounds really nice like, hey, we
don't have a first round pick until twenty well we
have next year's, but then we don't have control of
our first round pick till twenty twenty nine. I think, yeah,
you know, between giving them out to Utah and swaps,
(23:06):
so part of you thinks, oh man, this team could
needs more more talent. Uh, and they you know, if
they can trade, if they can consolidate some seconds for
a first great, But like then I kind of look
at the success rate again. You really have to look
at how many into first rounders just don't make it,
(23:28):
let alone make it on good teams and need you
to start to wonder like maybe they shouldn't be like
killing themselves, Like if anything, I'm more interested in trading
for a first, to use an extra first as a
trade asset to try to get a bigger deal done.
But on Draft night, justin that's really hard work because
it's like you got to get two deals done on
(23:50):
the most volatile night of the year. So like part
of me just is like, I'm not going to hold
out a ton of hope for a first because, like
you know, is the twenty seventh overall pick. Should I
feel safer with them than Dean Wade in the rotation?
I would say no.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I mean, let's look at it this way. So uh,
Sam has as I said seventeen to thirty six. That
tier is defined as rotational players and upside swings. The
top player within that tier is Chris Murray, who is
the brother of Keegan Murray. I believe they're twin brothers.
He is twenty two years old. He is the same
(24:29):
age as Isaaca Korro. So what you are hoping to
get within that tier is a rotation player. Isaac Okoro,
for all his flaws, is one hundred percent a rotation player.
He's a high level defensive player. Shot forty nine percent
from the floor, thirty six percent from three, you'd like
to see the volume go up. But he is a much, much,
(24:49):
much more proven commodity than a lot of guys in
this range, So I'm with you, Carter, Like Dean Wade,
maybe is like the line just because we've had injury
issues the last couple years. I don't think, as we've
said on previous podcasts, I don't think you can pencil
him into the rotation. There's likely going to be competition
(25:09):
within that. So maybe I draw the line at Okoro
unless you're getting like a proven player along with the pick,
which seems a little hard to believe. But for the
most part, if you're talking about you're hoping that a
hit is a guy that can be in the rotation,
not a starter, just a rotation player that fills in
a need. I'm not losing my mind trying to get there.
(25:31):
And especially if you can get into the thirties at
a lower cost and get someone at a similar level
as a prospect, that might be more appealing. Because the
cows do have to be very careful about how they
use their assets. You only have so many bullets in
the chamber here. You can't waste it all on just
kind of a hopeful swing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, you better have a player you really really like.
I think it's what I was saying because I haven't
done enough research into the know, the twenty three to
thirty range and the draft, Like I just kind of
leaned towards being a little more you know, uh, focused
on tangibles, you know, And I just feel like that
(26:14):
scares me a little bit. It would be exciting, sure,
and obviously we'll will whoever, if they do trade up
and select someone, you know, we're going to do all
our homework and figure out how we think they'll fit.
But like, you know, it's just they need such specific archetypes,
you know. I think if you if you like, if
someone like sen Spat from Ohio State is still on
(26:37):
the board at twenty three and you're like, Okay, here's
a six to sixth guy that shoots the absolute crap
out of the ball. Okay, you know, like go you know,
maybe go chase a little bit more aggressively. But like,
you know, if I'm Kobe Aldman, which thank god I'm
not for the Calves, I mean I would love to
be Kobe Allman. Good.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, someone reminded us right before the podcast of House staunchly.
We wanted or I shouldn't they saunchly, but we were
in favor open of an Andree Drummond extension. We're wrong
on this podcast a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, but if I were Kobe all Man, I don't
think I would be making unless I had another deal
lined up in one of those like pick up a
first and use the Zamo to trade for someone else.
I'm not making a trade into the first round before
draft night because I need to know who's going to
be available to me and if that juice is worth
(27:29):
a squeeze.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah. Yeah, you just don't know when you're talking about
players in that range if the juice is going to
be worth the squeeze. Unlike the video and conferencing support
we get from Zoom, it's always worth the squeeze. Support
for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom.
Half a million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform
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(27:50):
real time collaboration for teams around the globe. Zoom how
the world connects harder. I thought it would be a
helpful exercise looking at the rumors. I'm always trying to
find figure out what the motivations are, because despite what
people think, teams don't make trades thinking, oh there's a
clear winner and a clear loser here. Everyone's got different motivations.
Sometimes those timelines work out to find win win trades.
(28:12):
To me, the only thing that makes sense is if
a team's trading a pick to the Calves here in
this scenario is usually to move off of salary. Right,
the Cavs have guys that have partially guaranteed deals or
team friendly contracts that could help facilitate one of these deals.
So I'm looking at, Okay, what players would these teams
(28:33):
realistically potentially want to move that have multiple years of
money on their deal that still kind of fall within
the salary range of the guys we've talked about for
the Calves. For Brooklyn, it's basically Patty Miles, Royce, O'Neill.
Royce O'Neil's got a partially guaranteed deal. Both of those
guys only have one year on their contract. I don't
(28:54):
really see the incentive to get off of Royce, he's
a very good player, and Dorian Finney Smith. Although Jonathan
Gavoni of ESPN has reported that Brooklyn is trying to
use both first round picks with either Royce or Dori
and Finney Smith to get higher in the draft. So
I'm basically writing off Brooklyn. I can't really see a
scenario where this works for both teams.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
No, I couldn't agree more there. I mean, dfs is
was one of the prizes of the of the trade
with Kyrie, and he's one of the higher level three
and D players in the league. Royce is a great
locker room guy and like, and both he and Patty
are expiring, so it's like, how much money Unless you
are a team that can take those guys into space,
(29:34):
you're only gonna save them a million or two bucks
like at best. So like, I don't see the road
with Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, for Portland Nurkic, I don't think so. Even though
he's not necessarily considered part of the core, he's still,
you know, a starting caliber player, So I don't think
that he bethed so that really only leaves one player.
Portland doesn't have a lot of money that they need
to get off of their books that they have some
cap space. But nir Little is a guy that I
(30:04):
noticed he's got four years left on his contract, starting
a new extension there. You know, just twenty three years old,
still showed improved touch, shooting from three and shooting above
the brake as well last year. Really good defender that
can kind of defend up. So I could see a
team having interest in him in the second draft. But
I can also see Portland having interest in keeping him.
So that's the only really name that makes sense there.
(30:27):
For Charlotte Cody Martin, he's got three years left on
his deal. I mean, I would certainly be interested in
taking a flyer there, Like if the money a team
wants to get off of comes attached to a player
that could potentially fill a need for the Cavs, that
is like the absolute ideal scenario, But for that reason,
I also don't necessarily see that happening. And in Indiana
(30:51):
Corder obviously they got two picks twenty six and twenty nine.
And the players that I identify here Daniel Tice who's
thirty one years old, which really surprised me, and TJ McConnell,
both of those guys about the same contract value two
years left on both of their deals. You could probably
argue that maybe Tys would have some value as a
third big and maybe McConnell is another guard to have
(31:12):
in the locker room. But those were kind of the
guys that I had my eye on looking up and
down these teams to see if there was going to
be a motivation to get off a salary. Who would
be realistic players that they might consider moving.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, the tough thing for a team like Portland is
they're just so not in a space to salary dump.
So even if they have a contract they don't like
like maybe an arkich like you just can't let talent
go out the door when you're an expensive over the
cap team, Like holding their cap spot matters more so,
Like if it's Portland, you got to find someone they're
(31:46):
interested to come back like like and it might not
be like one of those Like kind of goes back
to the diatribe I had about the scout, the one
scout in your front office that likes that guy, Like
you want to find the one member of the Blazer's
front office that's a huge fan of a CA Caves
player that you know, maybe their value for that guy
(32:11):
exceeds with their overall perceived value. Is to try to
find you know, you're you're swapping some some slightly problematic players. Uh,
but you know, you're you're taking on someone they like
maybe a little bit more, and but then you do.
I really like Indiana as a target because one, they
have three picks, three first round It's tough to go
(32:32):
into camp with three first round picks. Yeah, it's just
like we've seen the Calves do it. You just you
have so many kids. You're running summer camp at that
point with with with all the kids on your roster,
because it's not like they don't also have a bunch
of young players that are two or three years in
the league. So I think that's a great target. It's
(32:52):
also a small market that's historically not been like crazy Spindye,
so you know, you you uh. And they also have
the worst salary of this group, which is TJ McConnell.
You know, he really looked closer to the end of
his career than the beginning when I watched Indiana last year,
And that says a long time avowed TJ McConnell fan.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Where I was.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I was hitting up with a few Pacer fan friends
during the Cavs when the Cavs played them this year,
just lusting the way lusting with hard well no the opposite.
I was like, oh, TJ, oh, it doesn't look so good.
I'm not an attentive listener when you talk. Oh, no,
you're not. And I was like, TJ, doesn't look so good.
Has this been the season? They're like, it's been worse. So, like,
(33:36):
you know, I think, I feel like you try to
find there just aren't so many horrible contracts in this
league anymore where where, And it feels like it's always
it's only like the Ben Simmons type deals where it's
like they're making thirty million and we're not sure about them. Like,
it doesn't feel like there's a lot of like twelve
million dollar contracts to guys who just turned out not
(33:57):
to be that good anymore. So it's it's really hard
to find these deals, which I'm sure Kobe Homa is
finding as he dries to buy his way into the
first Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And I think when you talk about the Cavs group
of guys like these are rotation caliber players for the
most part. Like I think Dan Wade when he's healthy,
I think he can be a helpful part of a rotation.
Jedty Osmond. We know he can be a helpful part
of a rotation, right, So I think the motivation would
be maybe getting a cheaper player that doesn't have as
much term on their deal, or term at a lower
(34:27):
dollar value, And that would probably be the motivation, because
you're right, it's hard to see a spot where these
teams are just looking to salary, dumpy and wave a player, right.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah. And the one team that we didn't mention that
might be looking to, you know, dump a little salary
might be like a seam like the Clippers. But they're
not pick rich, so you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They have thirty, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
The Bucks They do have Pick thirty, so, like you know,
and they're just so far into luxury tax pain that
maybe they're a team that you could look at. But
I do like your ladder three teams much more than Portland,
I'm sorry, much more than Brooklyn, just because those are
all players that have at least term. Where the Caves.
If the Calves do have some nice assets in the
(35:16):
trade game, it's that they have a bunch of players
on you know, one year contracts or very cheap two
to three year contracts.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I agree, and I just stuck with who people
have reported around the team. But you're right, Clippers make a.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Lot of This could be interesting as essentially a third
big within the rotation, because that's basically what he is
at this point. If it came along with pick thirty,
get the get the connection with DG going that that
would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And even like they got so many wings, they're they're
a wing hoarder, and they offend me for that reason
because they're just one of those teams that seems to
collect every single forward in a wing in the league.
And I'm not here for Carter. You share the wealth.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, especially since you're not even that good.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
That's mean, that's mean, Actually, hang on, that might be
a good transition, transition to maybe not that good. Bradley
Beal going to Phoenix. I mean, they got a big
three now, they certainly have that. I saw some reports
that they may think about keeping DeAndre in because they've
been underwhelmed with the trade market. But I want to
(36:23):
get your thoughts about Bradley Beal going to Phoenix because
my first thought was thank god he didn't go to
Miami because it was very clear with the no trade
clause that Washington wasn't getting a big return and if
the Miami Heat added Bradley Beal without giving up.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
A whole lot.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I would really like that fit for them, and that
would be a you know, another team that the Cavs
would have to contend with in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thet some I'm never going to complain about more talent
flowing west, justin you know. I think the fit is
really interesting from a basketball perspective because I feel like
the Suns are going to have a bit of an
intro challenge with how the roster is constructed because they
need to find that fifth starter. So do you go
(37:07):
find a point guard or play campaign to kind of
organize the offense just you know, do grown up basketball
things get them into their sets. But if you do that,
guess who's guarding the team's best offensive player. Probably Devin
Booker on the perimeter. And Katie has to play full
(37:30):
time four, which means he's banged a lot with teams
opposing bigs, you know, and you know, having to do
a lot of defensive coverage. If you go get if
you go play a big wing like Joshakoge and say, Josh,
guess what you get to do all the work on defense,
We're gonna hang out and shoot pull ups. Well, then
you lose a lot of that playmaking. And I don't
(37:52):
think I don't think Beal Booker or Durant or get
you into your offense kind of guys, like they are
all playmakers and like in like the more functional run
a pick and roll and make the immediate read type
of playmakers. So I feel like that was an offense
(38:14):
that was already really prone to getting a little boggie.
I mean, they were shooting like seventy percent of their
field goal attempts in that playoff series against Denver from
mid range.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
It was.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
It was an atrocious percentage of mid range pull ups.
And they're such a talented shot making team that that's
not bad against most teams, but not at the highest level.
You got to you know, Denver just shot dieted them
to death. And I will be interested to see if
with this trade, if they do go without a point
(38:45):
guard most of the time, how they can schematically avoid
falling into that trap, because well, I guess they could
just be even better at it, because Beal is also
awesome at it, but just feels like a little bit
of a diminishing return. So they're certainly better. I am
not in the group that poopoo's this trade is like
they're locking themselves into cap hell. They were already there,
(39:06):
And I would much rather have Bradley beal than a
rapidly Asian Chris Paul or a bunch of like mid
level exception editions and flexibility.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Like nobody's felt bad about Lancry Shammant leaving their team either, right, which,
which is one of our signature tests of whether or
not you'd want a player on the team, is because
the pone opposing fan base missed them. I'm with you
on that jack test exactly. That's right. I forgot what
you named it. The interesting thing to me from a
(39:38):
team building perspective is them just blowing past the second
apron and getting into that dollar value right away. It's
interesting to me because that is a strategy that you
can take right, Like you lose your ability to use
the exceptions, you lose your ability to take on additional
salary in a trade. But if you get your salary
to a high enough level, you're going to be able
(39:59):
to make trade. Like if you're sending out forty million dollars,
you can take back, you know, thirty nine million dollars
you can take forty exactly right, And.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That is one interesting thing in the Low Marx Pod,
sorry to jump in, where you kind of talked about
keep an eye on all Phoenix's free agents because they
might overpay all of them just so they have more
money to trade.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's going to be really interesting. Like
we know as much as people I remember talk about
the CBA when the heatles came together and they're like,
you know what, they're not going to be able to
put a supporting cast around it. Teams always find a
way to keep their talent, to find other ways to avenues,
to loopholes, all that kind of stuff. So that's going
(40:40):
to be one of the really fascinating things about this
new CBA. And I mean from a cast perspective, I
think we're in a similar spot, right, Like this is
going to be one of the last off seasons with
a lot of flexibility, and I expect them to explore
all avenues, right Like Goby does get very aggressive whenever
there's a transaction window, and I'm not surprised to see
their name pop up in a lot of these trade talks.
(41:02):
I'm not surprised to see them exploring opportunities to trade
into the first round in the second round, right, the
players that they might be targeting might not be available
there and they don't pull the trigger. But I'm not
surprised at all, and it wouldn't shock me. Then when
we recap draft night next week, if there was a
trade or two from the Caves, whether that's players on
(41:22):
their existing roster. The other thing we didn't mention they
have five second round picks to trade. We saw players
move for that kind of amount throughout the trade deadline
as well. I believe he can even trade a player
into the mid level exception. I should have looked this up. God,
I'm bad at they can't.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Who knows, Like, maybe that's a possibility. Like I explore them,
they know this stuff better than we do. We just
talk about it. So I explore them to look at
all avenues to improve the team and find opportunities, like
if a guy circling back to this year, little like,
if there's an opportunity there that's fun, that's a twenty
three year old, really long physical You know that it's
(42:03):
basically like an upgraded version of the Lamar role. That
would be an interesting player, right, Cody Martin Daniel Tye
is a third big. Like all these names that we
talked about, I think would be really interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, I think I think the reality about what the
off season is or what the draft is is that
it's the beginning of the off season, you know, the
all the transactions start kicking in, so you kind of
it's it's a little bit of the pre agency window
where you start getting ahead of some of these of
(42:38):
that official period where you can start negotiating with free agents.
So I think that even there might even be kind
of you know, functional, non draft related or only tangentially
draft related activity around the league on Thursday. So I'm
really really excited to see kind of the league the
twenty twenty four league years start to take shape, because
(42:59):
we just don't know how different the East may look
because what the rest, what the top of the East
does is you know, like just as an example, like
what if Miami trades for Damian Lillard, Like that changes
the landscape, you know, And so I'm very excited to
(43:19):
see kind of the rest of the league start to
make their moves, even if the Cavs are are are
quiet on Thursday, because it'll give Kobe Alman and co.
Mikeyanziy and co. A lot of clarity on where they
need to move, even outside of the you know, the
obvious improvements in their own roster that they.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Need to make. Yeah, and if teams aren't looking to
necessarily should salary on draft night, there may still be
opportunities to be a third team and in one of
these deals. And that's those are the margins that they're
going to have to play with it, right, Because you've
used your major trade chips already when it comes to
first round picks, you feel great about the core that
(44:00):
you have in place, and it's all about supplementing that core.
I do well, we're on the subject of, you know,
potentially trading into that range and hoping for a rotation player.
I do think it's interesting to look back on the
Karas Lavert trade, right because we now know that pick
twenty six was the pick that we gave up for
Karis Lavert looking at the kind of caliber prospects there,
(44:21):
and that does it impact how you feel about that
trade Because for me, I'm trying to think of it
in reverse. If we had the twenty sixth pick, would
be fine with trading for Karis Lavert, and I think
knowing what I know about how he's played with Kaz,
the way that he's bought in, knowing that he is
a rotation player and is one of the better playoff
(44:42):
performers in a series where a lot of the Cavs
didn't perform well, I feel pretty good about it. I
don't think I would necessarily trade LeVert for twenty six
at this point either, so I'm curious to get your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I don't think it's as simple as that. I think
that is a little bit of a reductive way to
view it, in so far as I do think there
was a lot of opportunity costs in terms of potential
utility leading in before we got to it even becoming
pick twenty six, I agree. And you know, in terms
of the Steepian rule of them not being able to
(45:18):
deal last year, in terms of the way that they
had to push their their picks in the Donovan Mitchell
trade really far out because of that that not being available.
Though you could argue that it's probably a good thing
that they were able to hold on.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I was about, say, knowing the reputation of Danny Ainge,
that deal's probably not done until you trade every single
first round pick that you have available, so maybe it
would have gone out anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
And just also like might be better to have a closer,
you know, be able to pick earlier rather than you know,
having a first in twenty twenty nine maybe isn't as valuable.
So I think there's a lot of layers to it.
I still think from a value perspective, I would probably
I'll call it a net neutral trade in terms of
the opportunity cost. But I don't think, you know, you
(46:06):
just can't say it's like a disaster. He's certainly outplayed
the value of the twenty sixth overall pick, though. Uh.
You know, maybe uh, maybe they just are able to
shape the roster in a way that fits them a
little bit better if they don't make that deal, if
they do have that first round pick going into the
going into the year. Uh, but we won't know. We
(46:29):
just can't know, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Uh, it would be really funny if they got that
pick back in one of these deals like shedding salary.
Because the way that we talk about trades, and like
me in particular when it comes to the Kyrie trade,
where I'm like, you know, the initial returns, one thing
but when you start to look at the ripple effects
of who they that one would be too stupid for
me to fathom. Well, especially if it was Rubio again,
(46:52):
which would break my damn heart. That would be That's
the weirdest and fun an outcome, and one that I'm
not particularly rooting for because I love Ricky Rubin. No.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
No, but yeah, so it'll I think it's an interesting
thing to bring up, but I do think it's a
little more layered than twenty six. For keras is the most.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Hard pick was a component of it, and I believe
either there's a future or second round pick that that's
owed as well as a result of that. Funny enough,
I believe the Calves second round pick that Indiana has
this year is the result of the Andre Drummond trade,
bringing everything full circle.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, the funniest. The funnier question asked was if because
if the Calves had just missed the playoffs, they they
would have turned into two seconds. Given the playoffs went,
maybe that would have been better, but I don't think
it would. I'm just joking. It's obviously better to even
if your playoff trip exposed some very obvious weaknesses, still
(47:51):
better to have them exposed and have data to work
on than missing all together and also not having a
fifty one to win season, which was super duper fun.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Totally agree Carter, a little bit of housekeeping before we
wrap this thing up. I would be remiss to not
bring this up because we talked about at the end
of the last podcast when we're discussing free agency options,
and then it was just fitting that Brian Windhorse on
ESPN Radio Today mentioned one of the targets to keep
an eye on when it comes to the Caves in
free agency is Kelly Ubray someone that you know, we're
(48:22):
not the biggest fan of his fit necessarily with the Caves.
I he's certainly, you know, a rotation player and something
that we think could be helpful. But it's just so
funny that we brought him up and then that's the
name that came up. How fast would you talk yourself
into Kelly Ubray?
Speaker 1 (48:38):
I mean, not that fast, to be honest. I think
that there, you know, it kind of goes back to
what I said on the last pod, which is that
he is a player who doesn't super fit my basketball aesthetic,
and those are the ones I'm most cool to be
wrong about. Because it's much less. My opposition is much
less about what I see on a spreadshett in terms
(49:01):
of his stats, and much more about like the vibe
of in the kind of basketball I like the best.
And you know, I think that's where I can be
the most wrong. So I do think the chances of
me being wrong are very very high. I mean, he's
a useful player, has been very helpful to some bad
teams and some good teams. I forgot about his very
(49:22):
nice son's run until someone in the discord brought it up.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think my favorite critique that we received about his
Warriors tenure was that we're killing him for him not
being Andrea Goodell on a very weird Warriors team, which
was basically, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
It's fair. But I think my my my biggest anxiety
about it would be, you know, Kobe Altman goes into
the offseason and says, we need to add shooting Newbody's
just not that good of a shooter. I mean, he's
not a horrible shooter, but he's not that good.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
He's a My Grove shooter for sure.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Yeah, And like I think his gravity is certainly better
than a lot of the Cavs players on the wing.
I think it's contested. You know, his gravity rankings are
a lot better than many of the cavaliers despite his
relatively low percentage. But I just like, you know, if
you don't add a bona fide shooter that with the
(50:19):
mid level, you're gonna have to find another way to
add it. And like, I think the onus doesn't go
away with a Kelly gubray ad and you just used
one of your biggest chips to add a player who
were not sure in space. So you know, I think
Uber kind of falls into that tier of mid level
target where it's like, okay, if our first, second, and
third options that are better fits aren't available, like we're
(50:41):
not just gonna not use the money. So like it
makes sense there, But like would he be my first choice?
Speaker 2 (50:47):
No, he wouldn't. Yeah, I was going to say, I
think it comes down to order of operations for me,
like my I think we're on the same page where
what we want to see is ideally adding volumes shooting,
and we want someone that can make shots at volume. Right,
So when you look at a guy like Max Strews
as an example, when you look at kind of the
(51:07):
volume shooters available in free agency, a lot of them
are six or five and under. Max Drews, Malik Beasley,
even Dante DiVincenzo who is.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
A Bang bang nyang, are really sure.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
But like for the most part, they are shorter players.
But I do agree with you, I would prioritize those
type of guys. But I think if I can have
a guy that's going to take shots a high volume
and knock those down, the volume really matters to me.
And I do think it was something that you touched
on there, which is the gravity that he would have,
and even looking at that openness ranking right, like I
(51:44):
said before, Jeddi Osmond eighty seven percentile, Kelly Ubray ninth percentile.
Now it's worth noting some of that is his own doing,
but I do think there is a value for a
guy that's, you know, a thirty four percent career three
point shooter takes about seven per game with Charlie, and
I do think that there is a benefit to that
volume and the fact that it comes with, you know,
(52:06):
an athletic player that's able to create his own shot,
which is valuable for a team that sometimes has the
offense bogged down in the half court, and the fact
that he's a defensive player. He almost kind of slots
into that jetty role of a guy that isn't going
to play at his percentages, is going to get really
hot and really cold. You're going to have nine words frustrating.
But if it's coming with defense, I think I could
(52:26):
talk myself into it. But one hundred percent with you
wouldn't be top of my kind of dream wishless. But
depending on who goes where and for what price, Like,
it's very possible that you all of a sudden just say, okay,
let's go with the more dynamic player that is a
volume shooter. I can get the rationale behind it, and
I could talk myself into it. But again, well it
(52:47):
would depend on who's available and whether or not it's perceived. Hey,
you're passing up on a better fit in free agency,
which there might not be.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah, and then the absence of Kevin Love, you know,
the team's handsomeness ranking and beautiful take a hit and
he's a beautiful man, So you know that does matter.
You know, Cod's gotta sell tickets, baby, They and we
sure as hell there was a factor. No, we're not helping,
we're hurting.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, we are dragging that rate the hell down, last
order of business card before we wrap this thing up.
You can't do this without sixty seconds of Sea Bears
can't go, Ah Carter. The good times keep on rolling
with the Winnipeg Sea Bears. They bounce back from their
disappointing loss with a dominant one ten eighty nine home
win over the defending Champon Brampton Honey Badgers. We got
(53:36):
to witness an absolute shot making clinic from Teddy Allen
as he set a CBO record with nine made threes
and forty points on the evening, coming just two points
short of the league record for points in the game,
which he, of course said earlier in the season. Allan
ranked second in the points per game in the CEBL
with twenty six point eight with some very hot and
very cold nights with very little in between. Speaking of
(53:57):
very cold, Winnipeg was not so lucky in their next matchup,
using ninety seven and eighty one to the Calgary Search.
The Search, like Winnipeg, are in their first year in
the CEBAIL and both teams are currently at the top
of the standings. Like all basketball these days, it's a
make or miss league, and Winnipeg went six to twenty
one from Deep in Their Father's Day Matine, which just
didn't cut it. Despite the loss of Winnipeg still has
the second best record in the league and take on
Vancouver once again. Head home tomorrow, go see Bear.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Do, Buddy, you did great.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
I can't hear your little ticker anymore or the horns,
so I'm just assuming that I'm killing it and getting
it in another you are, brother, Hell yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
That's probably my fault. I probably messed up something on
the mixer.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
That's fine, I'll forgive you in time. You know, we're loving.
We make mistakes on this podcast, and we will just
try to do better next time. So next time we
will be back talking about whatever happens on draft night
for the Cats. I'm very excited for that. I think
we do have a good guests lined up, someone that
we were hoping to have on the podcast for this
here episode. But I think there's more value given the
(55:00):
range of players from like when you're looking at the
early twenties to forty nine. We're not doing deep dives
in forty five minutes here. Let's be honest, that's not
going to happen. So maybe it is a little bit
better that we're just going to look at what happens,
look at the aftermath, and break down who the Cavs
actually end up picking, If they pick anyone at all,
I guess that's a possibility too. Possibilities are endless.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Carter absolutely brother, can't wait.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Total insanity. Big thanks to everyone that tune in live
on YouTube. We appreciate you guys. Make sure you like
and subscribe. Click notification bels you know when we're going live.
If you're listening via podcast, leave us ratingly, review, subscribe unsubscribed,
resubscribe and help cook those books. If you want to
be part of Chased on exclusive discord chats, any screenshot
that review to Chase down Pott at gmail dot com.
However you choose to support us, we really do appreciate it.
Make sure you guys are staying safe out there.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Until next time, Go Cavstadt
Speaker 2 (56:09):
SA
This crowd rises to it's being what Carl slamming it out,
Carl left wing, reball.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Perfect dar pop, the half block, the shot at the rim,
pow with the left hand and a fowl. Welcome to
the Chasetown Podcast, part of the kas Media family. I'm
your host, Justin Browan. The Chase Doown is presented by
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(00:29):
It is draft week. We're recording this on Tuesday night.
The NBA Draft is just two nights away. You're probably
listening to this on Wednesday. And we promised that we
would bring on a draft expert, somebody that knows what
they're talking about, and we do not have that. We
have Carter Rodveguez and said, Carter, how you doing, Buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Doing good? Buddy? Tell you what not easy to book
a draft analyst when you have the forty ninth pick
in the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's not sexy. The forty ninth pick is say.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
These guys they they I don't think they did. You know,
there's an inherent you know Two Way Street in the
guest game. You know, hey, we're giving you a little
exposure to a new audience. Forty nine. There is not
enough juice in that squeeze justin.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So I like to be transparent, you know this. I
like to level with the audience. And I gotta say
we accept some responsibility here. It's been a bit tough
sletting some of our draft friends were not available. Some
of this is on our availabilities.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well, yeah, you know, not canceled.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, we cann o'clock.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is tough.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
He canceled on a good guest because of timing, and
then when we were able to pivot to that time,
they were no longer free. So we will have a
draft expert on next week to break down whoever the
Cavs do end up picking. But honestly, I do think
this is a little bit fitting. We are going to
dive into kind of some of the tears. Our friend
(01:55):
friend of the podcast Sambassini, does a wonderful draft guide
right now. The Athletics subscriptions on for a dollar, So
if you want to support what he's doing, perfect time
to go do that, because really thorough breakdowns are on there.
But this is probably the weirdest draft in talking about
the calves that I think we've gone into because you know,
throughout the Lebron run didn't really pay a whole lot
(02:17):
of attention, you know, but even during that time, a
lot of times there there was a higher pick, you know,
Jeddi Osman in the second round going in with the
forty ninth pick, and some of the reporting that's been
around the team that hey, they're looking at options to
potentially move into the first round. Brian Windhors today said
that the Caves are in fact looking to trade into
the first round, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're looking
(02:38):
to draft a player there. That pick could be used
in any separate deal. There's so many options as we go
into this draft night that really really makes it a
unique night. It's exciting. It's possible that nothing happens and
we just pick at forty nine. There's just so many possibilities,
and I feel like it's almost a little bit fitting
(02:58):
that we're going to sit here and try to do
our very best to break down what may occur on
draft night.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
The reality is, like I remember feeling this way at
fourteen that we were like, man, there's so many permutations.
It kind of feels impossible to lock in on any
group of prospects, you know. I mean we were doing
big boards of like ten conceivable calves draftees yea last
(03:29):
year and that list is seventy. Now it's not seventy.
The top forty probably will not be around, but you
get what I'm saying, it's going to be. It's gonna
be interesting. And you know that doesn't even weigh in
the fact that they could trade, you know, into a
pick into the twenties. So you know, I think the
best we can do is kind of look at all
(03:50):
those permutations of where we think the Calves might go
with what might you know, be worth it, what might
not be worth it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, And I want to start this off by asking
you a question because I think in general you and
I are kind of best player available mindset when it
comes to drafts, just because talent is the hardest thing
to add, and if you hit on your picks, it's
going to open up possibilities. Even if the fit can
be weird, it can open up possibilities. But given what
(04:18):
the Calves have in terms of infrastructure, given that we
do have, you know, a core four, we have in
all likelihood Carousel a Vert. There's no reason to indicate
that he's not part of the Cavs plans. You have
Isaaca Korrol, you got options. Do you still kind of
feel like taking the best player available mentality when we're
going into this draft, whether it's in the twenties, whether
(04:38):
it's at forty nine, whether it's in the thirties, what
is your mindset going into this draft?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well, I'll start within the forties because that's the most
likely outcome still by a lot. I am pretty surprised
that so many, like the Calves have had a few
big smock to them, and people are like, how many
centers do just Kobe all one? You know? And I'm like,
I guess I get it. You know, they have the
two bigs in the front court to start, and you know,
(05:07):
they drafted Job last year, they drafted Mobili last year.
But like after the playoffs, we just saw where the
Cavs had, you know, maybe six and a half guys
they really trusted to perform for them. I don't think
you could possibly turn your nose up at any position,
(05:27):
Cuz if you draft a backup point guard. If you
find out Andrew Nimhard, who was in the second round
last year, you'd be like, oh, wow, awesome, we have
a this guy might be able to play for us.
So this team is not so deep. It's not like
they're one wing away where if they add another big
there's no chance they'll ever play, or if they add
(05:49):
a point guard there's no chance they'll ever play. I
think there's just as good you know, I think they have.
There's just as good of a chance at any position,
any archetype of finding minutes if they take it. Like
Tristan Vuksovich, whose name I'm guessing on how to pronounce,
shooting center, Yeah, a three point shooting center. Like why
(06:09):
can't if he's a good basketball player, which you're lucky
to find it forty five or at least an NBA
caliber good basketball player. Uh, why can't he played on
this team? You know? Like, I feel like there's a
lot of I feel like there's still a lot of
frustration in the fan base based on how the roster
(06:32):
building kind of went after the Donovan Mitchell trade, you know,
not trading for more shooting, standing pat at the deadline,
et cetera, that there's just a bit of a rush
to be grumpy before they really think about what they're
grumpy about.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I think rush to be grumpy makes sense. I
think that comes a little bit with a territory when
you start to have expectations. Yeah, I'm going to somewhat
agree with you, Carter, but I also want to disagree
just a little bit because depending where they're picking. If
let's say the most likely outcome here is that they're
picking at forty nine, right when you're at that point,
(07:11):
I do think you can go for the highest upside
swing that you think is available there, regardless of position.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I would say that would be best available player. I
think that's the same.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Thing because yeah, no, and I agree with you, you take
best player available at that situation because in all likelihood,
the context of the team doesn't matter. If we're picking
at forty nine, I don't think there's any way that
this player gets rotation minutes for the Calves next season.
You're likely looking at a two way talent, maybe someone
that's going to play overseas that's going to be getting opportunity.
(07:43):
So I'm not really thinking about how does there how
likely are they to develop within the context of the
Calves existing roster. Now, if there were an opportunity to
move up in the second round and you get to
a different tier or prospect where you're like, hey, you
know what, maybe this is a guy that could get
some end of bench minutes that could fit into the
(08:04):
rotation to some extent, I think I do start to
think about fit a little more than a strictly best
player available mentality, because you have to think about your
ability to develop that specific talent, and I don't think
when you get later in the draft, I don't think
it's ever going to be clear who the best player
available is. I'm sure people will have very firm takes,
(08:27):
but for the most part, you're talking about very similar
caliber prospects and it's all going to come down to
your player development and how likely you are to help
them reach their ceiling. So I do think if you're
in arrange to take somebody like that, or maybe there's
even a draft night slide where a guy falls, if
you're taking guy with the expectation that he's going to
(08:47):
have a role on the Calves, that he's going to
have a roster spot among the Calves next year, I
do think fit needs to come into some consideration because
I think that is going to impact how you are
able to develop them and whether or not you can
get them minutes on the court.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, that's totally fair, you know, And that's why I
kind of answered for in the forties first, because the
reality is, guys, you have to go look at like
success charts for picks forty five through sixty. You know,
I'm you look at their chances of just making it
three seasons in the league. It's very low. A lot
(09:27):
of guys drafted at the end of the second round
never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball. So anything
they can find here that's of interest is pretty good.
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
If I can watch a highlight tape and it gets
me a little bit excited, I'm going to take that
as a win at forty eight. Yeah, So, like I
think you just got to find a player that your
front office thinks, you know, like this happens a lot
in football, where you kind of hear what teams big
boards are after, like and you know, you always hear
about like football teams like getting someone in the seventh
(10:03):
that they had a fifth round grade on or something
like that, Like that's what you're looking for if you're
the Cops front office, is who's the guy that's one
of your scouts likes better than everyone else and you know,
ideally it's a scout you trust, and you go and say, hey,
you know this is a low risk swing, but you
(10:26):
know John Johnny here in the scouting department loves, loves
this guy, and so we're gonna take a shot at him.
And like, I think that's kind of what you're looking
to find because you can find players. I'm not saying
you can't find players, and you can't find rotation players,
and like there's a long history of really good players
that were drafted in the second round all over the
second round.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's just the odds are low. So from a percentages perspective,
you just can't get your hopes up, and you certainly
can't be like, well, we really like this guy, but
we got a lot of sinners. We picked a center
last year. Now I just gotta take him, because you know,
if one of if they draft a center and one
of Isaiah Mobi Khalifa job and this guy and whoever
(11:09):
they end up drafting ends up being a playable NBA
player on a team that's good. What a huge win.
So that's kind of where I stand on that. Yeah,
I agree, And to go to Sam's big board, he
does tiers, which I absolutely love. You know that I
love tiers over ranking, and in the forty three to
fifty three player range. He defines that tier as kind
(11:33):
of priority two way wings, so guys that are likely
going to get a two way contract and will be
somewhat part of team's plans. So I think that's kind
of the caliber player that you're hoping to get. At
forty nine and looking at his big board chart, the
one thing that jumped out to me immediately is in
that eleven player range, seven of those guys are ring wings.
I should say, maybe they'll help win a ring. We'll
(11:55):
see about that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And four of them are above average three point shooters
as well. Some of these names have been connected to
the Cats. Julian Strather, he's a forty six ranked prospect
for Sam, really good three point shooter, as well as
Hunter Tyson, the interesting player, Seth lundy forty seven. They're
all kind of in that range, and to me, that
(12:17):
makes it interesting. Some of the other names that we've
heard reported by Chris Fiedor and others that may be
in consideration at that spot, as you mentioned Carter, Tristan Vutsvich,
He's Sam's fifty eighth rank prospect, and Amony Baits, who
is definitely divisive. He's ranked as the sixty ninth prospect,
(12:37):
I imagine just because of high school pedigree and the
perception of upside. I think he's going to go higher
than that. It won't even surprise me if he went
higher than forty nine. But I want to know if
you have any thoughts on Amony Baits Carter, because that
seems to be one of the guys that gets brought
up most frequently just because he does have that microwave
scorer ability.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean, I just I feel like he's one
of those guys that at a personal level, And I'm
no expert here, so you know, you really shouldn't color
this too much, but I feel like there are high
talent guys who fall in college because of situation or
opportunity or injury.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Ye, I mean a little bit of all that.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, and then there's guys who just aren't as good,
you know, there's you know, they go against players who
are as developed as they are or seventy five percent
as developed as they are, and they're just not good enough.
And I feel like Baits is one of the is
the latter, and I think there's a reason. You know,
like you look at the draft community and if they
have a bias, it's towards pedigree. Yeah, and you know,
(13:45):
guys like that tend to be ranked decently high on
Draft Experts boards, you know, because they've been tracking these guys.
You got to remember, these guys didn't just hear about
him on the Baits. They've been watching him since he
was fifty years old.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
In anticipation of him being a lottery pick. I remember.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So the fact that you know he's out of the
top sixty for a lot of guys that I respect,
it's just more confirmation that I just don't think he's
got the juice. He went to Eastern Michigan and played
in the MAC and justin god knows, if anyone in
this whole wide world loves some action, it's me. But
(14:26):
like he wasn't a particular league, elite player in the
MAC where he really should have. You know, he had
a healthy shot diet and you know, could could play
against significantly less athletic players than he was playing out
in his freshman year. And so to me, that just
(14:46):
guy feels bound for Europe to me, and he would
not be my pick. But what the hell do I
know you're going to give him the Adam Silver mean
of get ready to learn Canadian buddy. Maybe he could
be a Sea Bears story for god, I would love
to see him on the Sea Bears.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, he's interesting because I think that he's someone I
believe in his shooting ability based on kind of what
I've seen. I think he's someone whose percentages are very
much based on the quality of attempts he takes, and
some of that is, you know, ability to generate quality attempts.
He's not a spectacular athlete. He doesn't finish well at
the rim defense. He isn't there at this point at
(15:27):
forty nine. Honestly, I would be fine with it as
a swing if you just don't believe that there's a
lot of talent that's worthwhile. That's a quote unquote safer pick.
You're not getting a safe pick at forty nine.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But yeah, and for what it's worth, thirty eight percent
shooter on catch and shoot threes. Yeah, like at six
at six ' nine, Like, not that bad.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, you can talk yourself into that, right, can catch
and shoot three point shooter six ' nine. That is
the type of player that the Cavs or have been
looking for, right. But looking at the board, it is
kind of encouraging though to see a few names in
that range that are wings that shoot the ball well
from three and for me, like, I just feel like
the cass needs such a specific skill set and they're
(16:12):
four guys in particular are just so damn good. I
know people get caught up with the Knick series, but
those guys are so damn good that the needs that
we need from a pick from a guy that's going
to play spot minutes aren't that dramatic. We don't need
the most well rounded player. We need someone that's going
to go out there and knock down open looks because
(16:32):
they're going to get open looks. We talked about this
earlier when we were doing our reports and reviews of
the season. Jenni Osmin was in the eighty seventh percentile
when it comes to how open his three point looks are.
You're going to get very good looks on the cast
if you're a catch and shoot player, And to me,
it's somewhat interesting, and it's worth noting that guys are
there in that range, but who knows, maybe there is
(16:54):
an opportunity to potentially trade up. Even looking at the
second round, Vicini has the picks thirty seven to forty
two as second round guarantee swing, so guys that he thinks,
you know, once you get in the second round, no
matter where you're mocked, there's always a chance you go
on drafted. These are guys that he feels confident are
(17:15):
going to end up in the second round, and only
one of them, Brandon Pozemski, is the only one in
that range that projects to be or is currently an
above average three point shooter. But you know, Jalen Wilson
Jordan Walsh are the two other wings in that range.
So after that, he's got a big tier carter. And
(17:36):
to me, this is the most fascinating thing when we're
talking about the Cavs examining all options, he has picks
seventeen through thirty six as the same kind of tier
in general in this draft, which is rotational players with upside,
And to me, that's really interesting. And again I looked
at how many of those players within that twenty player range.
(17:57):
How many are wings fourteen out of the twenty. To me,
that's a really really encouraging thing. And there's guys in
there that that can knock down some shots as well. Yeah, Jesus,
it got you emotional talking about the trash Carter.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, you know when you're when you're talking about now, Yeah,
I And what you really hope is that some of
these teams uh in the in the late twenties, early
thirties start making runs on picks for need that are
looking to chase some bigs or chase some guards, and
maybe a few of those wings fall. But man, it's
(18:35):
just so variable.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I still really like the idea of Buksovic, you know,
who is a bit of a weird player, And I'm
kind of I feel like with the Cabs, you really
at forty nine, you really are looking at weird players
like Baits who you know, gosh hot forty five percent
at the rim. I was just reading that while you
were talking forty in the mac ah Ah or Buksovich,
(19:03):
who is who can shoot the absolute lights out at
seven foot but is gonna really struggle to defend at
the NBA level. Just just not move super well and
it's not a great jumper. You know, you hope that
the Calves maybe are a team to help insulate a
guy like that with with their uh, with their length
and defensive systems. So yeah, it's just gonna be a
(19:26):
really variable draft experience where like man maybe, but maybe
someone falls big time. You know, we just don't know,
you know, I think at e J. Ladell last year
where a lot of people were like, could he be
like seventeen, Then he fell into the second round before
he got hurt, So you just and the other thing
(19:47):
that the Cabs have in their favor is, you know,
there's gonna be a lot to talk about trading up,
and we can jump into that in a minute, but like, yes,
they're gonna be looking for a first pick, but it's
also a lot easier to move from forty nine to
thirty seven, you know, and go get a second round.
(20:08):
Or you really really liked it, maybe you did have
a you know, a guy that maybe you had like
twentieth on your big board that has fallen all the
way into the second round. So I'd keep an eye
on activity pretty much the whole way through because this
kind of team is just going to be looking for talent,
and you know, whatever ways they can to chase that.
I think they're going to try to explore.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, and we may see a situation like last year
right where they add another second round pick, and who knows,
Like sometimes teams will add another second round pick in
anticipation of maybe a prospect's going to fall, and we're
going to be able to consolidate those two picks and
trade up into the late first round if a guy
is there, and if the guy isn't there, Hey, you
got an extra second round pick. You can maybe use
(20:50):
the later one for a draft in stash and then
use the higher pick to select somebody that you might
be a little more keen on that you were hoping
is there at forty nine, right, Like, there's going to
be a lot of options, and I think you're right
to kind of highlight that, Hey, you are going to
need to be tuned in the whole time. I won't
be tuned in the whole time, Carter, full disclosure, because
we got a bomber game going on, So I'm going
(21:11):
to be in attendance of that, but I'm going to
be checking.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
My phone all night of little Faith.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, look, I'm not going to sit home waiting for
the forty ninth pick and missed the game. But no, no, no,
of course not. We got BC in town, buddy, We're
going to watch this. But yeah, there are a lot
of options available in I guess we should talk about
the potential of a trade up. It's something that's been reported.
Chris Fiedor mentioned that the teams most frequently that he's
(21:38):
heard that there's been discussions with are Brooklyn, Portland, Indiana,
and Charlotte. The thing that I immediately noted with all
of those teams teams with multiple first round picks. Brooklyn's
got twenty two and twenty one, Portland obviously at three
as well as twenty three, Indiana twenty six via the
carousel vert trade twenty nine as well, and Charlotte's got
(22:00):
picked twenty seven. So when you're looking at it from
a cave standpoint, got Jetti Osmond reports our contract becomes
guaranteed on June twenty ninth. That might have a peel
for a team looking to move salary. And then outside
of the core, you know it's Dean Wade, Ricky Rubio,
isaac Ocoro, five second round picks. I can't really see
(22:23):
anyone that's a prominent part of the Calves rotation, and
that probably includes Acoro being moved for just a pick.
But you know, as you're evaluating all of these assets,
I do think it's worth at least listing all of
these guys. As much as I hate that side of
the business and that side of talking about the game, Yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Hard would you be trying if you're the Calves, Because like,
at first glance, it sounds really nice like, hey, we
don't have a first round pick until twenty well we
have next year's, but then we don't have control of
our first round pick till twenty twenty nine. I think, yeah,
you know, between giving them out to Utah and swaps,
(23:06):
so part of you thinks, oh man, this team could
needs more more talent. Uh, and they you know, if
they can trade, if they can consolidate some seconds for
a first great, But like then I kind of look
at the success rate again. You really have to look
at how many into first rounders just don't make it,
(23:28):
let alone make it on good teams and need you
to start to wonder like maybe they shouldn't be like
killing themselves, Like if anything, I'm more interested in trading
for a first, to use an extra first as a
trade asset to try to get a bigger deal done.
But on Draft night, justin that's really hard work because
it's like you got to get two deals done on
(23:50):
the most volatile night of the year. So like part
of me just is like, I'm not going to hold
out a ton of hope for a first because, like
you know, is the twenty seventh overall pick. Should I
feel safer with them than Dean Wade in the rotation?
I would say no.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I mean, let's look at it this way. So uh,
Sam has as I said seventeen to thirty six. That
tier is defined as rotational players and upside swings. The
top player within that tier is Chris Murray, who is
the brother of Keegan Murray. I believe they're twin brothers.
He is twenty two years old. He is the same
(24:29):
age as Isaaca Korro. So what you are hoping to
get within that tier is a rotation player. Isaac Okoro,
for all his flaws, is one hundred percent a rotation player.
He's a high level defensive player. Shot forty nine percent
from the floor, thirty six percent from three, you'd like
to see the volume go up. But he is a much, much,
(24:49):
much more proven commodity than a lot of guys in
this range, So I'm with you, Carter, Like Dean Wade,
maybe is like the line just because we've had injury
issues the last couple years. I don't think, as we've
said on previous podcasts, I don't think you can pencil
him into the rotation. There's likely going to be competition
(25:09):
within that. So maybe I draw the line at Okoro
unless you're getting like a proven player along with the pick,
which seems a little hard to believe. But for the
most part, if you're talking about you're hoping that a
hit is a guy that can be in the rotation,
not a starter, just a rotation player that fills in
a need. I'm not losing my mind trying to get there.
(25:31):
And especially if you can get into the thirties at
a lower cost and get someone at a similar level
as a prospect, that might be more appealing. Because the
cows do have to be very careful about how they
use their assets. You only have so many bullets in
the chamber here. You can't waste it all on just
kind of a hopeful swing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, you better have a player you really really like.
I think it's what I was saying because I haven't
done enough research into the know, the twenty three to
thirty range and the draft, Like I just kind of
leaned towards being a little more you know, uh, focused
on tangibles, you know, And I just feel like that
(26:14):
scares me a little bit. It would be exciting, sure,
and obviously we'll will whoever, if they do trade up
and select someone, you know, we're going to do all
our homework and figure out how we think they'll fit.
But like, you know, it's just they need such specific archetypes,
you know. I think if you if you like, if
someone like sen Spat from Ohio State is still on
(26:37):
the board at twenty three and you're like, Okay, here's
a six to sixth guy that shoots the absolute crap
out of the ball. Okay, you know, like go you know,
maybe go chase a little bit more aggressively. But like,
you know, if I'm Kobe Aldman, which thank god I'm
not for the Calves, I mean I would love to
be Kobe Allman. Good.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, someone reminded us right before the podcast of House staunchly.
We wanted or I shouldn't they saunchly, but we were
in favor open of an Andree Drummond extension. We're wrong
on this podcast a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, but if I were Kobe all Man, I don't
think I would be making unless I had another deal
lined up in one of those like pick up a
first and use the Zamo to trade for someone else.
I'm not making a trade into the first round before
draft night because I need to know who's going to
be available to me and if that juice is worth
(27:29):
a squeeze.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah. Yeah, you just don't know when you're talking about
players in that range if the juice is going to
be worth the squeeze. Unlike the video and conferencing support
we get from Zoom, it's always worth the squeeze. Support
for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom.
Half a million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform
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(27:50):
real time collaboration for teams around the globe. Zoom how
the world connects harder. I thought it would be a
helpful exercise looking at the rumors. I'm always trying to
find figure out what the motivations are, because despite what
people think, teams don't make trades thinking, oh there's a
clear winner and a clear loser here. Everyone's got different motivations.
Sometimes those timelines work out to find win win trades.
(28:12):
To me, the only thing that makes sense is if
a team's trading a pick to the Calves here in
this scenario is usually to move off of salary. Right,
the Cavs have guys that have partially guaranteed deals or
team friendly contracts that could help facilitate one of these deals.
So I'm looking at, Okay, what players would these teams
(28:33):
realistically potentially want to move that have multiple years of
money on their deal that still kind of fall within
the salary range of the guys we've talked about for
the Calves. For Brooklyn, it's basically Patty Miles, Royce, O'Neill.
Royce O'Neil's got a partially guaranteed deal. Both of those
guys only have one year on their contract. I don't
(28:54):
really see the incentive to get off of Royce, he's
a very good player, and Dorian Finney Smith. Although Jonathan
Gavoni of ESPN has reported that Brooklyn is trying to
use both first round picks with either Royce or Dori
and Finney Smith to get higher in the draft. So
I'm basically writing off Brooklyn. I can't really see a
scenario where this works for both teams.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
No, I couldn't agree more there. I mean, dfs is
was one of the prizes of the of the trade
with Kyrie, and he's one of the higher level three
and D players in the league. Royce is a great
locker room guy and like, and both he and Patty
are expiring, so it's like, how much money Unless you
are a team that can take those guys into space,
(29:34):
you're only gonna save them a million or two bucks
like at best. So like, I don't see the road
with Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, for Portland Nurkic, I don't think so. Even though
he's not necessarily considered part of the core, he's still,
you know, a starting caliber player, So I don't think
that he bethed so that really only leaves one player.
Portland doesn't have a lot of money that they need
to get off of their books that they have some
cap space. But nir Little is a guy that I
(30:04):
noticed he's got four years left on his contract, starting
a new extension there. You know, just twenty three years old,
still showed improved touch, shooting from three and shooting above
the brake as well last year. Really good defender that
can kind of defend up. So I could see a
team having interest in him in the second draft. But
I can also see Portland having interest in keeping him.
So that's the only really name that makes sense there.
(30:27):
For Charlotte Cody Martin, he's got three years left on
his deal. I mean, I would certainly be interested in
taking a flyer there, Like if the money a team
wants to get off of comes attached to a player
that could potentially fill a need for the Cavs, that
is like the absolute ideal scenario, But for that reason,
I also don't necessarily see that happening. And in Indiana
(30:51):
Corder obviously they got two picks twenty six and twenty nine.
And the players that I identify here Daniel Tice who's
thirty one years old, which really surprised me, and TJ McConnell,
both of those guys about the same contract value two
years left on both of their deals. You could probably
argue that maybe Tys would have some value as a
third big and maybe McConnell is another guard to have
(31:12):
in the locker room. But those were kind of the
guys that I had my eye on looking up and
down these teams to see if there was going to
be a motivation to get off a salary. Who would
be realistic players that they might consider moving.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, the tough thing for a team like Portland is
they're just so not in a space to salary dump.
So even if they have a contract they don't like
like maybe an arkich like you just can't let talent
go out the door when you're an expensive over the
cap team, Like holding their cap spot matters more so,
Like if it's Portland, you got to find someone they're
(31:46):
interested to come back like like and it might not
be like one of those Like kind of goes back
to the diatribe I had about the scout, the one
scout in your front office that likes that guy, Like
you want to find the one member of the Blazer's
front office that's a huge fan of a CA Caves
player that you know, maybe their value for that guy
(32:11):
exceeds with their overall perceived value. Is to try to
find you know, you're you're swapping some some slightly problematic players. Uh,
but you know, you're you're taking on someone they like
maybe a little bit more, and but then you do.
I really like Indiana as a target because one, they
have three picks, three first round It's tough to go
(32:32):
into camp with three first round picks. Yeah, it's just
like we've seen the Calves do it. You just you
have so many kids. You're running summer camp at that
point with with with all the kids on your roster,
because it's not like they don't also have a bunch
of young players that are two or three years in
the league. So I think that's a great target. It's
(32:52):
also a small market that's historically not been like crazy Spindye,
so you know, you you uh. And they also have
the worst salary of this group, which is TJ McConnell.
You know, he really looked closer to the end of
his career than the beginning when I watched Indiana last year,
And that says a long time avowed TJ McConnell fan.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Where I was.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I was hitting up with a few Pacer fan friends
during the Cavs when the Cavs played them this year,
just lusting the way lusting with hard well no the opposite.
I was like, oh, TJ, oh, it doesn't look so good.
I'm not an attentive listener when you talk. Oh, no,
you're not. And I was like, TJ, doesn't look so good.
Has this been the season? They're like, it's been worse. So, like,
(33:36):
you know, I think, I feel like you try to
find there just aren't so many horrible contracts in this
league anymore where where, And it feels like it's always
it's only like the Ben Simmons type deals where it's
like they're making thirty million and we're not sure about them. Like,
it doesn't feel like there's a lot of like twelve
million dollar contracts to guys who just turned out not
(33:57):
to be that good anymore. So it's it's really hard
to find these deals, which I'm sure Kobe Homa is
finding as he dries to buy his way into the
first Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And I think when you talk about the Cavs group
of guys like these are rotation caliber players for the
most part. Like I think Dan Wade when he's healthy,
I think he can be a helpful part of a rotation.
Jedty Osmond. We know he can be a helpful part
of a rotation, right, So I think the motivation would
be maybe getting a cheaper player that doesn't have as
much term on their deal, or term at a lower
(34:27):
dollar value, And that would probably be the motivation, because
you're right, it's hard to see a spot where these
teams are just looking to salary, dumpy and wave a player, right.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah. And the one team that we didn't mention that
might be looking to, you know, dump a little salary
might be like a seam like the Clippers. But they're
not pick rich, so you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They have thirty, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
The Bucks They do have Pick thirty, so, like you know,
and they're just so far into luxury tax pain that
maybe they're a team that you could look at. But
I do like your ladder three teams much more than Portland,
I'm sorry, much more than Brooklyn, just because those are
all players that have at least term. Where the Caves.
If the Calves do have some nice assets in the
(35:16):
trade game, it's that they have a bunch of players
on you know, one year contracts or very cheap two
to three year contracts.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I agree, and I just stuck with who people
have reported around the team. But you're right, Clippers make a.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Lot of This could be interesting as essentially a third
big within the rotation, because that's basically what he is
at this point. If it came along with pick thirty,
get the get the connection with DG going that that
would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And even like they got so many wings, they're they're
a wing hoarder, and they offend me for that reason
because they're just one of those teams that seems to
collect every single forward in a wing in the league.
And I'm not here for Carter. You share the wealth.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, especially since you're not even that good.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
That's mean, that's mean, Actually, hang on, that might be
a good transition, transition to maybe not that good. Bradley
Beal going to Phoenix. I mean, they got a big
three now, they certainly have that. I saw some reports
that they may think about keeping DeAndre in because they've
been underwhelmed with the trade market. But I want to
(36:23):
get your thoughts about Bradley Beal going to Phoenix because
my first thought was thank god he didn't go to
Miami because it was very clear with the no trade
clause that Washington wasn't getting a big return and if
the Miami Heat added Bradley Beal without giving up.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
A whole lot.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I would really like that fit for them, and that
would be a you know, another team that the Cavs
would have to contend with in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thet some I'm never going to complain about more talent
flowing west, justin you know. I think the fit is
really interesting from a basketball perspective because I feel like
the Suns are going to have a bit of an
intro challenge with how the roster is constructed because they
need to find that fifth starter. So do you go
(37:07):
find a point guard or play campaign to kind of
organize the offense just you know, do grown up basketball
things get them into their sets. But if you do that,
guess who's guarding the team's best offensive player. Probably Devin
Booker on the perimeter. And Katie has to play full
(37:30):
time four, which means he's banged a lot with teams
opposing bigs, you know, and you know, having to do
a lot of defensive coverage. If you go get if
you go play a big wing like Joshakoge and say, Josh,
guess what you get to do all the work on defense,
We're gonna hang out and shoot pull ups. Well, then
you lose a lot of that playmaking. And I don't
(37:52):
think I don't think Beal Booker or Durant or get
you into your offense kind of guys, like they are
all playmakers and like in like the more functional run
a pick and roll and make the immediate read type
of playmakers. So I feel like that was an offense
(38:14):
that was already really prone to getting a little boggie.
I mean, they were shooting like seventy percent of their
field goal attempts in that playoff series against Denver from
mid range.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
It was.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
It was an atrocious percentage of mid range pull ups.
And they're such a talented shot making team that that's
not bad against most teams, but not at the highest level.
You got to you know, Denver just shot dieted them
to death. And I will be interested to see if
with this trade, if they do go without a point
(38:45):
guard most of the time, how they can schematically avoid
falling into that trap, because well, I guess they could
just be even better at it, because Beal is also
awesome at it, but just feels like a little bit
of a diminishing return. So they're certainly better. I am
not in the group that poopoo's this trade is like
they're locking themselves into cap hell. They were already there,
(39:06):
And I would much rather have Bradley beal than a
rapidly Asian Chris Paul or a bunch of like mid
level exception editions and flexibility.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Like nobody's felt bad about Lancry Shammant leaving their team either, right, which,
which is one of our signature tests of whether or
not you'd want a player on the team, is because
the pone opposing fan base missed them. I'm with you
on that jack test exactly. That's right. I forgot what
you named it. The interesting thing to me from a
(39:38):
team building perspective is them just blowing past the second
apron and getting into that dollar value right away. It's
interesting to me because that is a strategy that you
can take right, Like you lose your ability to use
the exceptions, you lose your ability to take on additional
salary in a trade. But if you get your salary
to a high enough level, you're going to be able
(39:59):
to make trade. Like if you're sending out forty million dollars,
you can take back, you know, thirty nine million dollars
you can take forty exactly right, And.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That is one interesting thing in the Low Marx Pod,
sorry to jump in, where you kind of talked about
keep an eye on all Phoenix's free agents because they
might overpay all of them just so they have more
money to trade.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's going to be really interesting. Like
we know as much as people I remember talk about
the CBA when the heatles came together and they're like,
you know what, they're not going to be able to
put a supporting cast around it. Teams always find a
way to keep their talent, to find other ways to avenues,
to loopholes, all that kind of stuff. So that's going
(40:40):
to be one of the really fascinating things about this
new CBA. And I mean from a cast perspective, I
think we're in a similar spot, right, Like this is
going to be one of the last off seasons with
a lot of flexibility, and I expect them to explore
all avenues, right Like Goby does get very aggressive whenever
there's a transaction window, and I'm not surprised to see
their name pop up in a lot of these trade talks.
(41:02):
I'm not surprised to see them exploring opportunities to trade
into the first round in the second round, right, the
players that they might be targeting might not be available
there and they don't pull the trigger. But I'm not
surprised at all, and it wouldn't shock me. Then when
we recap draft night next week, if there was a
trade or two from the Caves, whether that's players on
(41:22):
their existing roster. The other thing we didn't mention they
have five second round picks to trade. We saw players
move for that kind of amount throughout the trade deadline
as well. I believe he can even trade a player
into the mid level exception. I should have looked this up. God,
I'm bad at they can't.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Who knows, Like, maybe that's a possibility. Like I explore them,
they know this stuff better than we do. We just
talk about it. So I explore them to look at
all avenues to improve the team and find opportunities, like
if a guy circling back to this year, little like,
if there's an opportunity there that's fun, that's a twenty
three year old, really long physical You know that it's
(42:03):
basically like an upgraded version of the Lamar role. That
would be an interesting player, right, Cody Martin Daniel Tye
is a third big. Like all these names that we
talked about, I think would be really interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, I think I think the reality about what the
off season is or what the draft is is that
it's the beginning of the off season, you know, the
all the transactions start kicking in, so you kind of
it's it's a little bit of the pre agency window
where you start getting ahead of some of these of
(42:38):
that official period where you can start negotiating with free agents.
So I think that even there might even be kind
of you know, functional, non draft related or only tangentially
draft related activity around the league on Thursday. So I'm
really really excited to see kind of the league the
twenty twenty four league years start to take shape, because
(42:59):
we just don't know how different the East may look
because what the rest, what the top of the East
does is you know, like just as an example, like
what if Miami trades for Damian Lillard, Like that changes
the landscape, you know, And so I'm very excited to
(43:19):
see kind of the rest of the league start to
make their moves, even if the Cavs are are are
quiet on Thursday, because it'll give Kobe Alman and co.
Mikeyanziy and co. A lot of clarity on where they
need to move, even outside of the you know, the
obvious improvements in their own roster that they.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Need to make. Yeah, and if teams aren't looking to
necessarily should salary on draft night, there may still be
opportunities to be a third team and in one of
these deals. And that's those are the margins that they're
going to have to play with it, right, Because you've
used your major trade chips already when it comes to
first round picks, you feel great about the core that
(44:00):
you have in place, and it's all about supplementing that core.
I do well, we're on the subject of, you know,
potentially trading into that range and hoping for a rotation player.
I do think it's interesting to look back on the
Karas Lavert trade, right because we now know that pick
twenty six was the pick that we gave up for
Karis Lavert looking at the kind of caliber prospects there,
(44:21):
and that does it impact how you feel about that
trade Because for me, I'm trying to think of it
in reverse. If we had the twenty sixth pick, would
be fine with trading for Karis Lavert, and I think
knowing what I know about how he's played with Kaz,
the way that he's bought in, knowing that he is
a rotation player and is one of the better playoff
(44:42):
performers in a series where a lot of the Cavs
didn't perform well, I feel pretty good about it. I
don't think I would necessarily trade LeVert for twenty six
at this point either, so I'm curious to get your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I don't think it's as simple as that. I think
that is a little bit of a reductive way to
view it, in so far as I do think there
was a lot of opportunity costs in terms of potential
utility leading in before we got to it even becoming
pick twenty six, I agree. And you know, in terms
of the Steepian rule of them not being able to
(45:18):
deal last year, in terms of the way that they
had to push their their picks in the Donovan Mitchell
trade really far out because of that that not being available.
Though you could argue that it's probably a good thing
that they were able to hold on.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I was about, say, knowing the reputation of Danny Ainge,
that deal's probably not done until you trade every single
first round pick that you have available, so maybe it
would have gone out anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
And just also like might be better to have a closer,
you know, be able to pick earlier rather than you know,
having a first in twenty twenty nine maybe isn't as valuable.
So I think there's a lot of layers to it.
I still think from a value perspective, I would probably
I'll call it a net neutral trade in terms of
the opportunity cost. But I don't think, you know, you
(46:06):
just can't say it's like a disaster. He's certainly outplayed
the value of the twenty sixth overall pick, though. Uh.
You know, maybe uh, maybe they just are able to
shape the roster in a way that fits them a
little bit better if they don't make that deal, if
they do have that first round pick going into the
going into the year. Uh, but we won't know. We
(46:29):
just can't know, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Uh, it would be really funny if they got that
pick back in one of these deals like shedding salary.
Because the way that we talk about trades, and like
me in particular when it comes to the Kyrie trade,
where I'm like, you know, the initial returns, one thing
but when you start to look at the ripple effects
of who they that one would be too stupid for
me to fathom. Well, especially if it was Rubio again,
(46:52):
which would break my damn heart. That would be That's
the weirdest and fun an outcome, and one that I'm
not particularly rooting for because I love Ricky Rubin. No.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
No, but yeah, so it'll I think it's an interesting
thing to bring up, but I do think it's a
little more layered than twenty six. For keras is the most.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Hard pick was a component of it, and I believe
either there's a future or second round pick that that's
owed as well as a result of that. Funny enough,
I believe the Calves second round pick that Indiana has
this year is the result of the Andre Drummond trade,
bringing everything full circle.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, the funniest. The funnier question asked was if because
if the Calves had just missed the playoffs, they they
would have turned into two seconds. Given the playoffs went,
maybe that would have been better, but I don't think
it would. I'm just joking. It's obviously better to even
if your playoff trip exposed some very obvious weaknesses, still
(47:51):
better to have them exposed and have data to work
on than missing all together and also not having a
fifty one to win season, which was super duper fun.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Totally agree Carter, a little bit of housekeeping before we
wrap this thing up. I would be remiss to not
bring this up because we talked about at the end
of the last podcast when we're discussing free agency options,
and then it was just fitting that Brian Windhorse on
ESPN Radio Today mentioned one of the targets to keep
an eye on when it comes to the Caves in
free agency is Kelly Ubray someone that you know, we're
(48:22):
not the biggest fan of his fit necessarily with the Caves.
I he's certainly, you know, a rotation player and something
that we think could be helpful. But it's just so
funny that we brought him up and then that's the
name that came up. How fast would you talk yourself
into Kelly Ubray?
Speaker 1 (48:38):
I mean, not that fast, to be honest. I think
that there, you know, it kind of goes back to
what I said on the last pod, which is that
he is a player who doesn't super fit my basketball aesthetic,
and those are the ones I'm most cool to be
wrong about. Because it's much less. My opposition is much
less about what I see on a spreadshett in terms
(49:01):
of his stats, and much more about like the vibe
of in the kind of basketball I like the best.
And you know, I think that's where I can be
the most wrong. So I do think the chances of
me being wrong are very very high. I mean, he's
a useful player, has been very helpful to some bad
teams and some good teams. I forgot about his very
(49:22):
nice son's run until someone in the discord brought it up.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think my favorite critique that we received about his
Warriors tenure was that we're killing him for him not
being Andrea Goodell on a very weird Warriors team, which
was basically, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
It's fair. But I think my my my biggest anxiety
about it would be, you know, Kobe Altman goes into
the offseason and says, we need to add shooting Newbody's
just not that good of a shooter. I mean, he's
not a horrible shooter, but he's not that good.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
He's a My Grove shooter for sure.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Yeah, And like I think his gravity is certainly better
than a lot of the Cavs players on the wing.
I think it's contested. You know, his gravity rankings are
a lot better than many of the cavaliers despite his
relatively low percentage. But I just like, you know, if
you don't add a bona fide shooter that with the
(50:19):
mid level, you're gonna have to find another way to
add it. And like, I think the onus doesn't go
away with a Kelly gubray ad and you just used
one of your biggest chips to add a player who
were not sure in space. So you know, I think
Uber kind of falls into that tier of mid level
target where it's like, okay, if our first, second, and
third options that are better fits aren't available, like we're
(50:41):
not just gonna not use the money. So like it
makes sense there, But like would he be my first choice?
Speaker 2 (50:47):
No, he wouldn't. Yeah, I was going to say, I
think it comes down to order of operations for me,
like my I think we're on the same page where
what we want to see is ideally adding volumes shooting,
and we want someone that can make shots at volume. Right,
So when you look at a guy like Max Strews
as an example, when you look at kind of the
(51:07):
volume shooters available in free agency, a lot of them
are six or five and under. Max Drews, Malik Beasley,
even Dante DiVincenzo who is.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
A Bang bang nyang, are really sure.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
But like for the most part, they are shorter players.
But I do agree with you, I would prioritize those
type of guys. But I think if I can have
a guy that's going to take shots a high volume
and knock those down, the volume really matters to me.
And I do think it was something that you touched
on there, which is the gravity that he would have,
and even looking at that openness ranking right, like I
(51:44):
said before, Jeddi Osmond eighty seven percentile, Kelly Ubray ninth percentile.
Now it's worth noting some of that is his own doing,
but I do think there is a value for a
guy that's, you know, a thirty four percent career three
point shooter takes about seven per game with Charlie, and
I do think that there is a benefit to that
volume and the fact that it comes with, you know,
(52:06):
an athletic player that's able to create his own shot,
which is valuable for a team that sometimes has the
offense bogged down in the half court, and the fact
that he's a defensive player. He almost kind of slots
into that jetty role of a guy that isn't going
to play at his percentages, is going to get really
hot and really cold. You're going to have nine words frustrating.
But if it's coming with defense, I think I could
(52:26):
talk myself into it. But one hundred percent with you
wouldn't be top of my kind of dream wishless. But
depending on who goes where and for what price, Like,
it's very possible that you all of a sudden just say, okay,
let's go with the more dynamic player that is a
volume shooter. I can get the rationale behind it, and
I could talk myself into it. But again, well it
(52:47):
would depend on who's available and whether or not it's perceived. Hey,
you're passing up on a better fit in free agency,
which there might not be.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah, and then the absence of Kevin Love, you know,
the team's handsomeness ranking and beautiful take a hit and
he's a beautiful man, So you know that does matter.
You know, Cod's gotta sell tickets, baby, They and we
sure as hell there was a factor. No, we're not helping,
we're hurting.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, we are dragging that rate the hell down, last
order of business card before we wrap this thing up.
You can't do this without sixty seconds of Sea Bears
can't go, Ah Carter. The good times keep on rolling
with the Winnipeg Sea Bears. They bounce back from their
disappointing loss with a dominant one ten eighty nine home
win over the defending Champon Brampton Honey Badgers. We got
(53:36):
to witness an absolute shot making clinic from Teddy Allen
as he set a CBO record with nine made threes
and forty points on the evening, coming just two points
short of the league record for points in the game,
which he, of course said earlier in the season. Allan
ranked second in the points per game in the CEBL
with twenty six point eight with some very hot and
very cold nights with very little in between. Speaking of
(53:57):
very cold, Winnipeg was not so lucky in their next matchup,
using ninety seven and eighty one to the Calgary Search.
The Search, like Winnipeg, are in their first year in
the CEBAIL and both teams are currently at the top
of the standings. Like all basketball these days, it's a
make or miss league, and Winnipeg went six to twenty
one from Deep in Their Father's Day Matine, which just
didn't cut it. Despite the loss of Winnipeg still has
the second best record in the league and take on
Vancouver once again. Head home tomorrow, go see Bear.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Do, Buddy, you did great.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
I can't hear your little ticker anymore or the horns,
so I'm just assuming that I'm killing it and getting
it in another you are, brother, Hell yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
That's probably my fault. I probably messed up something on
the mixer.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
That's fine, I'll forgive you in time. You know, we're loving.
We make mistakes on this podcast, and we will just
try to do better next time. So next time we
will be back talking about whatever happens on draft night
for the Cats. I'm very excited for that. I think
we do have a good guests lined up, someone that
we were hoping to have on the podcast for this
here episode. But I think there's more value given the
(55:00):
range of players from like when you're looking at the
early twenties to forty nine. We're not doing deep dives
in forty five minutes here. Let's be honest, that's not
going to happen. So maybe it is a little bit
better that we're just going to look at what happens,
look at the aftermath, and break down who the Cavs
actually end up picking, If they pick anyone at all,
I guess that's a possibility too. Possibilities are endless.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Carter absolutely brother, can't wait.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Total insanity. Big thanks to everyone that tune in live
on YouTube. We appreciate you guys. Make sure you like
and subscribe. Click notification bels you know when we're going live.
If you're listening via podcast, leave us ratingly, review, subscribe unsubscribed,
resubscribe and help cook those books. If you want to
be part of Chased on exclusive discord chats, any screenshot
that review to Chase down Pott at gmail dot com.
However you choose to support us, we really do appreciate it.
Make sure you guys are staying safe out there.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Until next time, Go Cavstadt
Speaker 2 (56:09):
SA
Hosts And Creators
Carter Rodriguez
Justin Rowan
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