Welcome Emoni Bates with Adam Spinella

Justin and Carter are joined by Adam Spinella of The Box and One to discuss Emoni Bates and how he fits with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Diving into what will translate to the NBA and where he can grow to reach his potential as an NBA player. From there they discuss what the Cavs could do with their two way spots, as well as provide a preview to free agency. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What Carlos slamming it?

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh, darl left wing free ball perfect, darlck.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Pop the hendlift, block the shot at the rim, pow
with the left hand and a fowl. Welcome to Chasetown Podcast,
part of the Caves Media Family. I'm your host, Justin Roon.
The Chase Doown is presented by Fubo TV. Watch over
one hundred channels of live sports and TV for alf
the cost of cable. There's no contract and no commitment.
Try for free at FuboTV dot com. I could not

(00:29):
be more excited because, for the first time all off season,
we actually have news to talk about. We have a
new member of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Congratulations to a Moni Bates.
Joining me today to discuss it is my co host,
Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, buddy? Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Going good? It was it was uh, it was weird
to watch the draft knowing as little as I knew,
knowing knowing where the Calves were going to be picking,
you know, I was just I was just like just
like a gentle idiot being led through the telecast, which
is not too different from my normal day to day
but it felt especially notable. But then you know, Calves

(01:06):
did stay exactly where they were. I think, you know,
obviously we all had eyes on a potential trade up
and didn't end up happening. They stayed where they were,
took a big upside swing on Amani Baits, and you know,
I think that obviously we're going to dive in deep
on the kind of player Baits is. But you know,
like as we talked in our preview pod at forty nine,

(01:27):
year outcomes are, you know, your standard outcome is not
exactly great, So to swing for a top end talent
I think is a very justifiable choice. And really excited
to dive in on the kind of player that the
Cavs drafted.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I mean it was something we talked about in
the draft preview podcast that at forty nine definitely understood
taking the chance at mony Baits given his pedigree and
kind of the upside there and too gently lead us
to idiots through Amani Baits as well as the Calves
Draft night. It's our friend Adam Spanella. You you find
him for the Box and One recognize him from last

(02:01):
year's coverage Game three pod Game Theory podcast with our buddy,
Sam Vessini Adam, welcome back to the podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
It's great to have you here, gentlemen. Always good to
be back with you guys. You are two of the
best in the business. Really enjoy always coming on and
talking calves, talking hoops, and I will be gently guiding
you two very intelligent gentlemen through this process here today.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
So before before we dive in, so in preparation for
this podcast, I listened to you and Sam's live coverage
of the draft, And normally I don't like listening to
live pods the day after because it's like, Okay, you
y'all are in suspense, but I'm not. So it's a
little boring. But you know, a lot of a lot
of places, you know, just weren't doing the level of

(02:42):
deep dives I wanted. So, you know, I listened to
two of the best draft guys in the game, and
it blew me away how often you guys were right
ahead of time, and like even about transactions, like like
Bilo Colabali goes to Indiana and you're like, I bet
that's a trade down probably Washington that just swapped spots
with them for maybe a couple second rounders. That was

(03:04):
the deal. It was unbelievable, though. I think you really
earned your hoops bonafides by how completely lost you were
on all non draft things. At one point You're like,
it might be a commercial, and I'm like, what do
you mean, how do you not know if it's a commercial? Carter?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
To be fair, recent history has been grinding film. A
commercial suggested you can either be a commercial or you
could be a two time MVP and future NBA champion,
So we don't really know what commercials are anymore.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right, Absolutely, no, it was amazing coverage though, really it
was awesome.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
I appreciate that I struggled with the dress code stuff.
I think I've never felt older than seeing like I
talked about this, Kobe Buffkins showed up and just had
a blazer on and no shirt underneath, and I was
so I didn't even know that was a fashion thing.
I was like, is he not wearing a shirt? Here?
So I learned a lot on draft night about.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Locks himself in the gym and watching film. Because You're
like it was just so good. You were just like,
is he not wearing a shirt? You were a drift
to see my friend, and I loved it. It was
a great. It was a great podcast. I really did
learn a lot about these prospects and the way the
draft broke listening along to you live the day after.

(04:18):
So very very well done.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Sir, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I appreciate that if I look that good, I wouldn't
wear a shirt either, but instead I just look old
and sometimes wear a backwards hat to make myself look
a little bit younger. But diving in, enough about us,
I'm excited to talk about a money baits. The other
player that I think will be getting into a little
bit in this podcast is Craig Porter Junior, who there
is reports that the Calves are intend to sign to

(04:42):
a two way deal. I think it's important to note though,
that that is not official. There hasn't been any official
news from the Calves on that, so someone to at
least keep an eye on. We saw that sometimes just
because things are reported on Twitter doesn't mean it's actually
going to come to pass. Otherwise Malcolm Brognen would be
with the Clippers right now. But let's start with what

(05:03):
we know, which is that Moni Bits is the newest
member of the Cavaliers. And this is a draft pick
that you know I would call it. I wouldn't even
call it divisive, but I think everybody at kind of
the forty ninth spot understood it. They understood this as
an upside swing. This is a guy that has a
lot of talent, an impressive pedigree, and name that you recognize.

(05:26):
I want to know, given the gap between how highly
Imani Bates was thought of heading into college and then
this kind of exit point of being the forty ninth
pick in your eyes, do you think that was an
error in evaluation of what type of prospect he was
going into college or combination of errors in player development

(05:46):
and decision making from all parties evolved that got him
to this point.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's a really good question, and it's one that I'm
sure the answer is going to sound way too political
in some of this process on my end, but even
as five star recruits are guys who have the spotlight
on them at a young age, it is really tough
to continually get better and find ways to you know,
progress through your high school career, handle that fame and

(06:13):
spotlight that's on you at a really young age, and
continue to get better and not settle into hey, i
think I've made it. I'm surrounding myself with people who
tell me I've made it or I'm on the right
track already. You have to continue to be hungry. And
that might be a little bit too much of the
school of Miami heat right now, of like, we want
guys from unconventional pathways who just continue working to get

(06:34):
better and always have that chip on your shoulder. So
I think there might be a little bit about Amani's
path that allowed him to stray from that hard working
aspect necessarily of Hey, I've got to prove myself. I've
got to continue to have that chip on my shoulder.
But I also think that this is an inexact science.
I don't want to call it a poor evaluation. In

(06:55):
some way, I think Amani always had some physical things
that he needed to make up for with a ton
of skill. He still has that ton of skill. He
just hasn't quite figured out how to put it all
together in a winning fashion quite yet, and that has
led to various stops in college and kind of what
propels him to being a second round pick.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, I did go ahead justin Oh, I was I
was going to say that that makes a lot of sense,
like in a lot of ways, like a political answer
makes sense, right, because there is nuance to all of
this stuff, right, Like these these characters, these NBA players
and these prospects, they're not poorly written TV characters where
it's like, Okay, well this is who he is. He's

(07:35):
not really a fleshed out person, right, And like to
see him MONI, even after the draft, talk about like
the gratitude of the opportunity, and you hear how he's
been working really hard to kind of take a lot
of the lessons from his path and use that as
motivation and try to prove some of the doubters wrong.
It's going to be really interesting to see how this
kind of unconventional path for him ends up panning out.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Absolutely, I wanted just to ask, like, you know, obviously,
like you know, the second the pick was in, I
watched your your your Scout video, which was you know, amazing,
as always is super thorough, and I did the same
thing I always do, which is during the strength section,
I'm like, oh my god, you guys see this guy,
And then by the weaknesses section, I'm I'm in shambles.

(08:20):
You gotta start mixing them up because I get too
high and too low.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But as always, the strength that's that's.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
And that's the way to live. That's the way to
live your life. But I did want to just ask
for those that maybe are a little bit uninitiated, that
you know, have heard of Himani Baits, maybe seeing a
few highlight reels, what kind of player did the Cavs draft?

Speaker 3 (08:39):
So they drafted a player who is really comfortable creating
his own shot six nine, six foot ten, lanky shooter
who has never met one he doesn't like, and as
soon as the ball starts going through the basket, he
has unlimited confidence that he's going to be able to
make the next one. And that can lead to some
incredibly impressive stretches of basketball where he is killing it

(08:59):
and transition he has some unbelievable scoring outbursts. But I
think the challenge with a player like that, who I
describe as requiring a long leash in order to find
those moments when they get really hot, is that they
also will have some days where they go three of
sixteen or ozer of seven from three and the shots
not really falling. That we call those guys bulk scorers.

(09:21):
They need a lot of shots in order to find
their rhythm, and with Amani, he just hasn't tapped into
finding all of the different ways to impact the game
for the better. He is much more reliant on that
shot to fall in order for him to have a
really positive impact. And believe me, there are nights when
he is out there and he looks like one of
the best scorers in the world. But I think, as

(09:42):
we all know, the higher up in levels of basketball
you go, the more you need to be able to
do to justify staying on the floor, and the more
scalable your shooting needs to become. You may not get
twenty shots a night when you move up to the
next level, and that goes hand in hand with sort
of Wyzamani bait scene is more of a second round prospect.
It's because he never really answered those questions of if

(10:04):
the shot isn't falling, if you're not the number one
option for this team, how are you helping us? He's
still a bet on upside, but that's what we've seen
up to this point.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Do you think the shooting like the shooting splits are
the result of shot selection, Like, I guess the best
way to put is he's the shooting talent legitimate? Like,
is is he someone that you know, it's kind of
hot or cold, kind of maybe in the like Kelly
ubre mold where you know he's going to take some
tough shots and whatnot. Or is this a guy that

(10:36):
maybe in a different setting and we'll say within the
structure of the calves could get an easier shot diet
and that shooting talent is going to come through and
shine a little brighter and some of those percentages might elevate.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah. I think he's a very legitimate shooter. The stroke
is pure, it's a high release. He's always been known
as a really really gifted shooter from range. But the
percentages are a little bit lower for a ton of
different reasons. Right One, he takes way too many difficult ones.
He was expected to within the offense at Eastern Michigan
this year was kind of given carte blanche, and that
was the role that he really undertook. But the other

(11:12):
part of that is he passes down some open looks
in order to take those wondrible step backs to take
those higher degree of difficulty shots. He needs to find
ways to tame that down a little bit and thrive
off the catch and shoot stuff. I also mentioned before
Volume as opposed to efficiency that in order to get
those five of seven nights from three, you've got to
live with an zero of seven night probably the next

(11:34):
game around. He's not going to be like a JJ
Reddick or a Kyle Korver and James Jones, you know,
guys that Cavs fans have seen over the last decade
who dust him off off the bench, throw him in there.
He's ready to go too of three from three point range.
Like he needs to find a way to become a
little bit more of that in my opinion, But he
is a longer leashed type of player.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
How I gotta ask about the Eastern Michigan trip. You know,
I'm a Mac man myself, Adam, and you know part
of me kind of wonders, do you feel like that
Eastern Michigan transfer almost kind of hurt his ability to,
you know, define himself as a role type player at
the next level, because you know, at Memphis you might

(12:20):
have to play off ball a little bit. In the Mac,
if you're a Moni bas you're gonna get to play
pretty much however you want. Like, what are your thoughts
about his time in the Mac at Eastern Michigan.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
I think in general, the school or the pathway that
you select pre draft is always so important to showcasing
what you want your NBA role to be or answering
the questions that NBA teams will have of you. When
he was playing at Memphis a year ago, he was
really cast more as like a jumbo point guard and
playing more with the ball in his hands, trying to
set the table for others. And after watching Immani Baits

(12:54):
film or just some of the highlights that you've seen,
you can pretty easily know that's not his ideal role.
So Memphis I don't think was a very good situation
for him, and he needed to go to a place
that was going to let him be him a little
bit more. There can be a lot of conversations that
you have about what's the best thing to do pre draft.
Is it to try to audition for the role that

(13:15):
you're going to be in in the NBA or is
it to have a really successful season, prove that you're
in NBA talent, and then figure out how to adjust
to the NBA once you get there. So I think
that there's merit to either pathway, and that's why I'm
not necessarily saying that going to Eastern Michigan was a
poor choice for a guy like Amani Bates, but it

(13:37):
certainly leaves a couple of questions unanswered about how he
scales down his game. But the only reason that he's
in a position to be picked forty ninth this year
is because he had a much better sophomore season moving
on from Memphis to a situation where he was just
able to showcase his talent. And at the end of
the day, my advice for any prospector player is go
where you're wanted, Go where you feel your strengths are

(13:59):
going to be able to shine through, and figure out
the rest later.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, this is such an interesting situation for me because
the Calves, the strength of how they've turned this thing
around has been player development, right, Like that is something
that they've really emphasized. You got, you know, undrafted guys
that have developed into rotation players, Indean Wade as well
as Lamar Stevens, Darius Garland, player that took some time,
calling Sexton previously took some time. You've seen the growth

(14:26):
with Evan Mobley and with Amani Bits Like, there's certain
things you just can't teach, right, like the confidence to
take those shots. It's something that can be listed as
either a strength or a weakness, right, And the type
of volume shooting from a player that long is a
skill set that the Calves really need. And I'm curious
for your thoughts on what skills you feel most confident

(14:50):
that Amani has can translate to the NBA level.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. I think his scoring first and foremost is always
going to be that most translatable aspect of his game.
The confidence is one I'd like to see him continue
to have. Because we can pick a part efficiency all
we want. We see it in the stat sheets. It's
easy to come up with, like I said, when there
is that for seven night from deep, really easy to
go on Twitter and try to criticize that. But it's

(15:15):
so much harder in the grand scheme of things to
find a player who's willing to continue to take those
shots and has that unlimited confidence in yourself. I hope
that whatever role Amani has moving forward, whether he's with
the Cavs or in the G League, he's taken two
shots to night coming off the bench, or he ends
up getting to be the version of himself he was
at Eastern Michigan down the line, whatever version of him.

(15:37):
That is, be the confident version of yourself, because if
you lose confidence in your own game, it doesn't matter
what the skills are and the traits that you have
on the court to impact winning. You need to be
confident in order to do those. So there's a little
bit of self creation. There's a lot of three point shooting.
I think he's an offense scorer guy. That's who he's
wired to be, but he needs to be confident in

(15:59):
doing that while also scaling down certain aspects to fit
into a team system.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I want to ask you about his frame because that
that is something that a lot of people, you know,
have made note of. I mean, he's he's huge. He's
very very tall guy, but very very slender. I think
I's always listed like one seventy, which you know that
seems impossible given how tall he is. How is that
something you think he's going to be able to add

(16:26):
some functional strength onto and you know, be able to
overcome some of that or do you think it's going
to be I think he's kind of have to swim
up stream on for quite some time, you know, I know.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Like biomechanical expert on how these guys continue to develop
an add weight. If I did, I probably wouldn't be
five ten, one hundred and sixty five pounds myself. But
like the thing with Amani is he's as tall as
he is and skinny as he is, he's rather high waisted.
He's got really really long legs, and for those guys,
it is more difficult to sit down in a stance
and guard. And when you are a little bit more

(16:59):
like that, the question is whether you should add weight
to that frame and try to guard up the lineup
a little bit more so. To me, this is a conversation.
Is Amani more of a three or is he more
of a long term four and a stretch shooting four
who just doesn't have that bulk or that frame yet.
I'm not an expert as to whether he can put
that on. I think he probably is a three. I

(17:21):
think that's the best spot for him to guard. But
I will say this about Amani Baits for him landing
in Cleveland is probably one of the best case scenarios because,
as I know we talked about last year and what
I'm continually fond of with this Cavs team, having multiple
rim protectors behind you at the same time always means
that you're going to have that protection you can get
away with, Hey, I have to pressure this guy on

(17:43):
the perimeter. I can't just sit back. But if I
get blown past a little bit more, I have that
help behind me if I need it. I think Cleveland
was the ideal spot to blanket some of the early
career challenges that Amani's going to face on defense.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I also think it's culturally a good place because you know,
one thing if you watch your scout video that you
note is the effort was very inconsistent on that end
of the ball, especially at Eastern Michigan. And if there's
one thing that this coaching staff really cares about is
you got to try. Like Darius Garland, all star point
guard that does not have a ton of physical tools,

(18:18):
he still has to go out there and work as
to earn minutes. And I do hope that, you know,
part of this culture can kind of wear off on
a guy like Bates where he kind of shows up
to camp and goes, oh, man, these guys are are
working even really hard in practice, and I'm going to
get left behind if I don't join them at their

(18:40):
effort level.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
I'm sure he knows that too, right, Like, he and
his camp I think have been fairly self aware of
trying to change the perception and understand the areas that
he needs to improve. We saw that heading into the
NBA Draft Combine this year. He didn't want to be
a high volume chucker. He found ways to get his
own shot off, but he was much more concerned about
shooting off the camp quickly reversing the ball a little

(19:02):
bit more, and trying to show that he cared about
the defensive end of the floor. He's aware that he's
going to have to do those things in order to
make it in the lineup and in the rotation here
with the Cavaliers.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
It feels like the combine was a bit of a
turning point for him in terms of like slightly starting
to reclaim that narrative that like oh this guy, oh,
this guy, you know shot the lights out at the combine.
He did compete in in five on five, and it
feels like he maybe helped his stock just a little
bit there.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, and coaches are always in the business of eliminating excuses, right, Like,
you're going to find ways to make sure that Amani
Bates says, I'm going to defend or I'm not going
to play. And it's very simple, and it can come
down to something as simple as that. I think having
less of the offensive load on his shoulders at the
next level will eliminate one of those excuses. You can't
say I'm trying to conserve my energy or I'm doing

(19:53):
so much on the offensive end, I need help on
defense a little bit more like, No, your role is
simplified here. We need you to defend, we need to
open shots, play with confidence. And it's that simple.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, it's honestly. The two things that I found really encouraging.
One I think is a reflection of the organization, which
is when he got drafted, I saw a lot of
smart people that I respect that know about the draft
being like this is a great landing spot for him,
Like this is a situation not only in terms of personnel,
but in their ability to get the most out of them.

(20:24):
This is a great spot for mony Baits. The other
thing is what you mentioned, which is the self awareness.
The you know, it seems like he's someone that wants
to get better, that wants to kind of change the
narratives that are out there about him, And to me,
that's really encouraging because at the forty ninth pick man like,
you're not often getting upside. Like the upside might just be, hey,

(20:46):
this is a guy that can crack a rotation and
give you kind of solid to steady minutes. You're not
really getting upside at that range of the draft. And
it's exciting to have a guy that you know might
be disvisive to some people, but does come with that upside.
And I'm curious, as I say upside for the four
hundred time, I would like you to define that upside,
like what do you think kind of outside looking in

(21:10):
as he's entering the NBA. And know what's the hardest
thing to define? And it sucks to put a ceiling
on a guy, But where do you think that that
high ceiling or where do you think that serially would
be there?

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, you cardon all right, So I'll definitely get
a lot of Cavaliers fans super excited here. The best
case scenario for who Amani Bits can turn into is
some combination of Michael Porter Junior and Jordan Poole, some
combination of being a really huge wing shooter who has
that confidence to create his own probably takes some bad

(21:41):
shots to go with it. But he's going to be
able to do those things. And if he figures it
out defensively and he fills out his frame a little
bit more, he can at least stay on the floor
in some closing lineups. Like I don't think Porter Junior
or Jordan Poole ever cemented themselves as guys who are
always unquestionably on the floor in a late game SITUATIONUA,
but their offensive talent is so strong and so high

(22:04):
that they remain consistent starters or parts of the rotation.
Guys who can just fill it up. That the chance
of that happening for Amani Bits is not incredibly high.
That's why he's drafted in the forties, right, That's why
he's at the very end of this draft. But if
everything clicks for him, that could be the best version
of a Money Baits that we see.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I want to ask a more kind of you know,
lowered to median outcome kind of question, and it's a
bit of a fill in the blank game. So fill
in the blank. Amani Baits will make it as an
NBA rotation player if blank happens.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Defensive improvement and self awareness, So.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
You think the offense is close enough likes as is
that if he just can hang on the defensive end
that he can be helpful I mean.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well defensive defensive improvement and then self awareness on offense
is going to be take to.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Cut out some of the the more ambitious shots.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yes, I'm a man that loves some ambitious shots. I
have a soft spot for it. I love an audacious
attempt or two. I'm curious, though, to get him to
either kind of these median or ceiling outcomes, what, in
your eyes, what would the best approach be for developing
his talent, Because the one thing we said is if

(23:28):
the cast stayed at forty nine, we're kind of assuming
that whoever they pick is likely going to be spending
the season in the G League unless money baits just
you know, kills it in camp and he is clearly
already ready I think that's probably going to be the
most likely scenario. Might even be on a two way
contract for this year. But when he if he is

(23:49):
in fact with the charge and you kind of have
carte blanche on how you're going to use him, would
you be kind of refining his on ball game and
decision making almost kind of like really building it around
him or forcing him to play more of an off
ball role to help him for that likely NBA transition
and what he would be asked to do with the Cavs.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's a phenomenal question, justin unbelievable thought that I don't
really have a great answer for in that regard, Like
I think, it really does depend on what Kobe Altman
in the entire front office in vision for Amani, if
they want him to be that really confident guy and say, like,
when you come in here, it's not just catch and
shoot attempts. We want you to be you. We're going

(24:31):
to teach you how to be more efficient with your
decision making, and you're going to become a much more
efficient scorer by getting repetition with the ball in your hands.
I can understand that approach that might be the best
way to maximize what you get out of a money baits.
But I can understand the flip side of that as well. Hey,
we've got Mitchell and Garland. We want Mobley to operate
with the ball in his hands a little bit. We

(24:53):
need to find ways to space the floor around all
of them. Your best chance of making in the NBA
is to listen to that that role here with the
charge and if you're shooting thirty seven percent from three,
taking almost entirely catch and shoots, you will be with
us next year and probably playing in the playoffs. So
I get it from either side. I'm really fascinated to

(25:13):
see what decision the Caps front office makes on this one.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Well, one thing I know is that he is going
to have the support of this front office and this
coaching staff, just like this podcast gets his support from
his video conferencing software. Support for this podcast and the
following message come from Zoom. Half a million businesses connect
using Zoom, a single platform for phone, chat, workspaces, events, apps,
and video. Zoom enables real time collaboration for teams around

(25:37):
the globe. Zoom of the world connects.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I knew you were stealing that from me. The
second you said the word support, I knew you were
stealing that from me. Carter is the stocks legend, just
like this. Next player we will discuss Craig Porter Junior.
I was pretty excited about this. This was someone that
my typical approach for undrafted free agents or you know,

(26:02):
second round picks is I will enter their name, I
will filter on Twitter to see you who I'm following
that has ever talked about this guy, and all the
draft nerds love this guy. In fact, I saw you
had him as one of the players most likely to
outperform their position in the draft, which I mean when
you're undrafted, that is a low bar to clear. I'm

(26:24):
curious for your thoughts. What is it about Craig Porter Jr.
That kind of gave you that level of confidence that, Hey,
this is a guy that if he lands on an
NBA team, has the chance to show better than his
draft position.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, unique pathway to get to the NBA. I always
try to bet on those guys. I know, we talked
about it with Monty Baits a little bit earlier, like
somebody who's been through a little bit of adversity prior
to getting to the NBA has that chip on their shoulder.
Is something that I really value in this non traditional
path of Okay, I'm a two way guy. I'm an

(26:58):
undrafted free agent. I've got to really grind for every
single thing I want in my career. So a lot
of this as an informed bet on the type of
person that he is and the path that he's already
walked just to get to this point, but I love
guys who are really high level defenders at the point
of attack. If you're a smaller player like Porter is,
you don't make it in the NBA by being a

(27:20):
defensive liability. You have to more than overcompensate for that
as a smaller guard. And with his block numbers and
the way that he flies around athletically to protect the
basket as a help defender, that's really where my optimism
for him comes in. I think anything else he gives
on the offensive end, like, he's got the talent to
be able to do it. But smaller guards don't last

(27:41):
in the NBA unless they can really defend above their
weight class. I think Porter really can.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I mean I gotta start by asking about the blocks.
I mean, he average like one and a half blocks
a game. He had some games with five blocks at
six 't one sixty two, Like, what's going on? How
does he How does he make this kind of impact?
Is it athleticism because he's not super long either. I
think he's got like a six or four wingspan, Like,
how is he doing this? Because you just don't see

(28:08):
this kind of block profile for a guy with this
physical profile.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, it's incredibly incredibly impressive what he's able to do,
and a lot of it comes down to his instincts
rotationally off the ball, really good in breakdown situations amongst
his teammates of flying in to protect the basket. He
can contest shots from behind. His recovery is outstanding. He's
got great quick twitch athleticism to recognize when there's something

(28:35):
happening at the rim and he explodes there off one
foot or off two feet. I think the best shot
blockers are ones who can jump off either foot or
either one or two feet and are really reactive in
a quick manner in that regard, not guys who can
only jump in a certain manner. And that's really kind
of the nerd talk for me, saying like he's an
unbelievable athlete for somebody of his size. But it's athleticism,

(28:57):
it's instinct, it's length a little bit. I think he
plays longer than he's really listed at. A big fan
of porters on the defensive end.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, so I should probably state it again. The signing
hasn't been official, but we assume me if he does
in fact get a two way, probably someone that you're
going to see with the calves in Summer League, we
know that doesn't even necessarily guarantee a training camp deal.
I think rj Nemhardwit was on the Caves two way
contract at the time of Summer League and might not
make it a training camp. But when it comes to

(29:28):
Craig por Jr. Is he someone that you do kind
of see sticking with some team, whether it's the Cavs
or someone else in training camp and earning his way
on a roster. Because when Carter's playing the highlights there
and when I watch him, he's just someone that jumps
off of the screen and I just can't help but like,
compare him to other undrafted players. This was an NBA

(29:50):
Finals where one team had seven undrafted players that you
know were overlooked for one reason or another and cracked
an NBA rotation just on a spot. And someone with
those kind of block steal numbers that seem to have
good instincts running to pick and roll. This just feels
like a guy that is going to stick in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, And those are a lot of the similar sentiments
that I have, Like he just he competes on the
defensive end of the floor. He finds ways to be impactful,
and he's got enough finishing craft in touch and shooting
elsewhere that he can refine those traits on offense and
really stick around. Again, I really like Porter the trivia question.
I keep going back to per forty minutes. He actually

(30:33):
had more blocks than Noah Clowney, Asar Thompson, Adamas Sonogo,
Brandon Miller, or a Men Thompson in this draft class,
Like those are all the guys that we talked about
is being huge or unbelievable athletes, and for him to
get those block numbers on the same tiers or above
those guys really really impressive.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, it's really fun to have it like an interesting prospect,
even even though you know, again like we're talking about
undrafted or late second round guys that are like, you know,
their success outcome to be NBA rotation players is not
a high percentage. But he does seem to have a
few of those characteristics that make you go, huh, that's interesting.
I do want to ask about some of the reasons

(31:16):
that you know, maybe he was not drafted, probably starting
with his age. You know, he's twenty three, you know,
one of the oldest prospects in the draft. If he
was twenty one and had the season he had in
Wichita State, do you think he's a guy that would
probably have been selected, Like how much do you think
the age was a factor in kind of holding him

(31:37):
back from getting actually picked in the draft.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
So when you're under six foot five, I always say
that your game has to be perfectly well rounded and
you need to avoid checking negative boxes. For NBA teams, right,
age is seen as one of those for draft players.
We don't want to invest in somebody with a high
value draft selection who probably closer to hitting their ceiling
or the end of their trajectory then a younger player.

(32:03):
He's undersized, and because of that, you really don't get
room for one other type of I don't want to
call it a mistake, but you've got to be so
pristine in every other way to overcome that. If Porter's
twenty or twenty one years old and puts up the
season he just had, which you know, two to one
assist to turnover ratio, seven and a half rebounds per
forty minutes, all of those block shots, very efficient from

(32:24):
the field, and the course of the entire season, he's
probably a mid to late second round draft pick. But
I mean we're talking about other guards who are undersized,
and one in the same conference he played in this year,
Marcus Sasser, who is one of the best perimeter defenders
in all of college basketball, shot over forty percent from
three to forty five percent and above the last two

(32:45):
years on catch and shoot attempts. He's small, he's tough,
he shoots really well from three. He's been part of
winning programs at Houston, he went twenty fifth. I mean,
smaller guards, they just they're not thought of as being
the winning piece in the NBA long term. There's only
so many of them you can have on your roster
and still put together a real quality and versatile defense.

(33:06):
So I think for Porter, even a couple of years ago,
if he had an output like this, his ceiling is
still probably middle part of the second round. But two
years later, with that life experience and knowing what it's
like to run a team at which Das state this
past year, you feel really comfortable getting somebody like him
in the undrafted ranks.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, yeah, I did this guy justin I was just
going to say, this is why we bring you on
because this is such better nuanced analysis than me. Because
I would just look undrafted guard from which it tossed eight. Okay,
so it's Fred van Vliet. Then I look at the
blocks and the steels. I'm like, okay, he's Derek White.
He's Derek White, and Fred van Vliet Derek stan Vliet. Yeah,
Derek fnvleet that that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Now, Carter, you go with a real question, Okay, real
question because you look at his shooting splits this year
fifty two point eight percent from two point range, thirty
six from three, and you go, oh man, this is
a really nice profile. Then you look at two years
ago he shot thirty eight. I'm sorry, he shot thirty
eight point seven percent from two point range, then got

(34:05):
up to forty six, then got up to fifty three
with small guards. Obviously, finishing around the rim is going
to be an interesting, you know conundrum. And do you
think that this improved percentile was him, you know, just
getting older or improving a shot diet, because like, you know,
the the getting you know, getting more efficiencies you get
older is like a good thing, but it's also sometimes

(34:26):
it's like, well, you're twenty two playing against a bunch
of eighteen year olds, So like, is it somewhere in
the middle. What's kind of your opinion there.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I haven't watched a ton of older order film,
you know, I didn't see all of those younger years before.
Really this season when he popped a little bit more
as a draft, you weren't.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Watching Vincennes University, Juke.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
I wasn't watching a lot of Vincennes in my in
my my spare time here. But I think with Porter
and watching a consistent thing about his finishes is that
he tends to be over reliant on craft. He uses
the ri to protect himself from rim protectors. He finds
ways to really spin in it with I think the
kids call it jelly nowadays, like off the glass.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
And find we had and I would know as I confident,
Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't know Kobe Buffkin not wearing
a shirt was an in vogue thing to do.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
So I'm the wrong guy to know about any of
this stuff. But I think guys who are overly reliant
on touch around the basket, craftiness, avoiding contact, using the
rim to protect them, those guys need the game to
slow down, and they need a lot of space to
operate in in order to have those efficient metrics around
the rim. So a lot of this comes down to

(35:39):
wichisaw State being the right scheme and fit for him,
for him getting a little bit older and the rest
of the game slowing down. I'm curious to see if
that is something that would continue. But I was blown
away by the amount of hang time that he gets
on some of his finishes where he then spins it
off the glass. Really smart when he drives in the
middle third of the floor of using his shoulders to

(36:00):
veer into the defender to create more space for a
touch shot on the other side of the basket. There
are a lot of really crafty maneuvers he has in
his arsenal that suggest he can remain a good finisher
while being an undersized guard.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Harder stole my ad read, so I'm going to steal
this question Bill in the blank, Craig Porter Junior will
make it as an NBA rotation player if blank happens.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
If opportunity and preparation happen. You know, for it's a
John Wooden saying, right like operation and opportunity in preparation
or what lead to success? I think for Porter, when
you're an undrafted guy, opportunity doesn't just come because you've
killed it in the G League. You've done an unbelievable

(36:45):
job of proving yourself through training camp. You need a
certain few things to break away in front of you
where the team needs you to fill that role, and
he needs to be prepared to do what is best
for the Cleveland Cavaliers or whatever NBA team is employing
him at that time in order to make it. He
has enough diverse skills in his bag. He has shown

(37:06):
that he can finish near the basket, score in the
mid range, step back, and hit shots from three. I
think he's going to be fine playing off ball in
some regard. He's shown that he can compete on the
defensive end of the floor and recover from behind as
well as help protect the basket from the weak side.
He's just got to figure out what the team is
asking of him when the moments that he's in, how

(37:28):
do best fit into their scheme, and, like any other
undersized point guard who comes in and gets the ball
in their hands, find a way to run the team
in effective way and do what's best for everyone around you.
I think a lot of times, the tough part about
being in that situation where you're scratching and clawing for
your role in your next contract. Is that it's not

(37:49):
about the numbers that you produce, it's about the number
of correct decisions you make for the team around you.
So he's got to be able to take advantage of
the opportunity he's given by just doing what the Calves
need him to do.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Awesome, Well, Adam, you've been amazing as always. By the way, guys,
a lot of draft analysts that do this professionally cannot
go this deep on Craig Porter Junior. So it's so
appreciated that you're able to come bring this kind of expertise.
But it did kind of want to end with a
wider question. So in the last two years, the Calves

(38:25):
have invested five second round picks or you know or
or you know reportedly in Porter Junior's case, a two
way contract. So my question is who is most likely
to earn a full time contract with the Cavaliers between
Luke Travers, Khalifa Job, Isaiah Mobley, Creig Porter Jr. Or

(38:46):
Amani Bates.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, that's an interesting one. I really liked Isaiah Mobley
coming out of the draft this time of year ago.
I think that Bigger guys who can shoot it and
make good decisions with the ball in their hands are
always going to be a valuable bench chess piece for
an NBA team long term. And that is the ideal
version of who Mobley turns into in the NBA. Very

(39:10):
smart player. It's a little bit more skill with the
ball in his hands and he gets credit for, but
his role is primarily going to be as a floor
spacer on offfense. I think there's value in keeping a
guy like that around. That's not me playing the nepotism
card in any sort of way here, but I do
think that what he brings to the table is valuable
for NBA teams.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, we both really like Isaiah Mobley, and him having
such a good year with the Charge as well made
me feel good about it. I think, you know, it's
going to be interesting to see how the Cavs use
these two way contracts because they got three of them now.
In theory, Amani Baits and Craig Poor Jr. May take
up two of those, and given the Cavs need for

(39:50):
depth with the big men, I could definitely see Isaiah
Mobley getting the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
To We could literally get this answered yeah, a month.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I mean, the answer I'm hoping for when we look
back on this podcast is that it's multiple of these guys,
but you know it's going to always be an uphill climb.
There's so much talented toward in the league. It's going
to be a fight for every single minute. So it'll
be really interesting to see how this shakes out. Adam,
thank you so much for joining us. We are going
to transition and talk a little bit about free agency,

(40:21):
but we really really appreciate the time before we let
you out of here. Anything you want the audience to
know about that you got going on, anything you want
to plug.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
First off, thank you guys. I always love coming on
and talking cavaliers with you, all true professionals as you
proved with the expert adreads that you got to a
little bit earlier, and I really love being here with
you guys. Anyone who wants to follow my work, go
follow me on Twitter at the box end one Underscore.
It's where you can find links to all my work
in the various places that I'm doing it. The substack

(40:49):
page that I run is probably the most in depth
service that can get you a ton of information Scouting wise,
particularly upcoming on the twenty twenty four NBA Draft. Can't
believe for there already, but that's what I will be
to my attention to and locking myself in the film
room so I don't have to learn what jelly layups
or guys wear to draft nights for fashion statements anymore.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Well, we will definitely have you on to talk about
the Cavs twenty twenty four first round pick. We're back
having first round picks. That's exciting. Twenty twenty four is
one of those years that we will have one, So
we'll see where that ends up, and we will definitely
be bugging you then. So thank you so much, Adam,
really really appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Thank you guys, right, thank you sir.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
All right, so we will move on, Carter. It's unbelievable,
big thanks to Adam for coming on. I just I
can't believe the draft is already coming gone and we
are on the verge of NBA free agency kicking off.
The legal tampering window opens up Friday the thirtieth.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I believe it's always the silliest branding, the legal tampering window.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, I don't even know if that's the actual name
or not, but we're going to get.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
I think it is for the NFL. Either way, it's
all it's all ridiculous legally.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Is yeah, that's functionally what it is. None of the
signings will be official. You can always have the possibility
of a DeAndre Jordan situation, which we want to avoid
on this podcast. So we will be podcasting after that
window is over. We will becoming July sixth to talk
about it. But I think, just given the fact that

(42:19):
we will have a little bit of a layoff until
some of these signings are official, I want to talk
about realistic expectations going into free agency kind of where
we're at with this, and I mean, my number one hope,
the thing that I care most about right now Carter
is resigning Carroslovert because in my opinion, Carrislvert is better

(42:40):
than any of the options that are going to be
available for the mid level exception, which is the Calv's
biggest kind of chip in free agency. It's worth noting
that if the Cavs were to complete a sign and
trade or a player above that you would lose the
mid level exception. Ninety nine percent sure of that. I'm
not a cap expert, but I am ninety nine percent
sure that that's the case. So realistically, mid level exception

(43:02):
is probably the biggest chip that the Cavs have to
play with, And just bringing back Harris Lavert, I think
is so important. I think he really showed a lot
after the trade deadline and has shown that he is
dedicated to finding a groove and making it work and
playing team basketball with the Calves. So I want to

(43:22):
see Karris Lavert back. That's that's my number one priority
right now.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah. Well, and I think it could be glossed over
as a little bit of a foregune conclusion. Obviously, Caris
has said pretty on record that he wants to come back,
the Calves have been pretty obvious about wanting him back,
and then you just look at the mechanics of of
you know, where the Caves are in their team building process,
and you really don't want to let an asset walk
out the door. Even even if you're not a big

(43:48):
Karrislvert fan, I would really suggest that you should also
want them to resign Garrislavert, you know, at a at
a reasonable number, and it he showed enough in the playoffs,
I think definitely that you even even if you were
skeptical that you should want him back, because again, you

(44:08):
just want to to walk out the door. This is
going to be an over the cap team starting this
summer moving forward, you know, and probably will be for
the foreseeable future, barring any crazy cap spikes, which I
don't think are going to happen in the new CBA.
So uh, you know, I think you're absolutely right that
that Charris is the move. And then you know, like
to the sign and train. Note again, my legitimate CBA

(44:31):
strategy now is just to say stuff and get corrected
if I'm wrong. That's how I learned about the CBA
these days. But like, would you rather resign Caris and
sign someone for the mid level or would you like
to sign in trade Caris and then or someone of
that ILK and then hardcap yourself. You know, it's it,
it's just a little too many logistics. We can just

(44:53):
bring the guy back. So I agree with bringing Caris back,
but I do want to just ask, you know, looking
at the landscape, you know, four or five days out
from the legal tampering window opening, what do you want
them to do? Man?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
At this point, like my number one priority is adding
shooting because if we are assuming that Karslivert is back,
you've got six guys that I think you feel fairly
confident about being rotation players. Fun and fun fact, Carter,
if you had to guess what the cas net rating
was when o'corra, Mobley and Allen were on the court
together against the Knicks, where would you guess that that

(45:32):
was at in the playoff?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I'm just gonna guess plus three.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
It was plus twenty three. Oh my gosh, yeah, I
fifty one possessions. Just one of those things I looked
up today when I was arguing about, Hey, you know, well, Korol,
Mobley and Allen really did work over the course of
the last two seasons. I feel good about them together,
and I got countered with did it work in the playoffs?
And I was surprised to find out how well it
worked out. But you know, we still obviously have questions

(45:59):
about Coro and how his growth is going to go
with this team. But I think I can very very
confidently say that he's a rotation player that I feel
good about being in the Cavs rotation, and I think
we have multiple seasons to show that he is a
player that makes an impact, especially over the course of
a regular season. So if you have those five in
Karis Lavert, you need to add another player that you

(46:21):
feel good about being in the rotation. And with the
mid level exception, my number one priority is shooting. I
want to get a volume three point shooter. I think
looking at the options a lot of the time, the
things I'm finding is that these potential options, while they
had good to decent shooting seasons, a lot of the

(46:43):
quality of their looks wasn't as good as what they
would beginning with the calves. In all likelihood looking at
kind of the openness of guys like Jeddi Osmond or
Dean Wade or Isaaco Coro, They're going to be getting
better looks with the calves. And my number one priority
is if you can get a guy hitch shots at
league average rates at a high volume, that would be great.

(47:05):
If those options are off the table, I will take
volume shooting and that confidence to take the shots, banking
on the fact that, hey, we need someone that's willing
to take those shots, those contested shots. Like you said
that you notice in the playoffs watching Miami play and
all these other teams. Someone that's willing to go out
there and actually fire them up, because you have to

(47:27):
have some level of confidence that they're going to get
good quality looks with Cavs. So volume shooting is my
number one priority.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I couldn't agree more. And I noticed you're you're you're
doing your very clever justin thing where you don't say names. Ah,
and I know I know who and what you are.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna pull your feet to the
fire here and ask you to power rank the following outcomes. Okay,
Grant Williams, Max Struce, Kelly Oubre or splitting up the

(48:00):
mid level exception and using it on two different players
that are maybe of lesser pedigree.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, so splitting is probably my least favorite option because
I you know, I just even looking at it this way, Carter,
Like we talk about trying to add a seventh rotation
guy if healthy. I feel decent about Dean Wade being
a guy that can contribute over a regular season. I
feel decent about Jeddi Osmond being able to go out

(48:26):
there and give them good minutes over the course of
a season. So I really would like to use that
all in one chunk. Grant Wills would probably be my
top one, but I have to like, I don't think
that he's going to be available for the mid level exception.
I think that would be a great pick. And the
reason why I say him over those other ones you
listed is the two way impact. Like I think he

(48:49):
straddles that line of I have confidence in his abilities defensively.
I think he can be someone that can shoot threes
at volume and will get good looks at the cavs
and fits well. He can row to well with the bigs,
like I just I like a lot of things about
that fit. I just think he's going to be a
little too pricey. Max Streus would probably be number two
on there because volume shooting makes them. I look this

(49:12):
up when you're talking about openness rankings. Remember we've referenced
this a couple of times. Jenny Osmond was in the
eighty seven percentile. Max Trus was in the fourth percentile.
When it came to the.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Openness, Fly at this guy and there's so much gravity.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
There was real gravity there, and you just have to
bet on the fact that he's going to get good
looks with the calves. And even when he wasn't getting
good looks as he did this season, still knocked him
down by no means a perfect player. He has flaws defensively,
can run a little bit of pick and roll, you know,
and we've seen that he can get hot or cold,

(49:47):
but he's going to have gravity and I think he
would be someone that makes a lot of sense. And
then Kelly youu bray would be third there because I
think he's someone that I have confidence he can contribute
on the defensive end. Streaky, streaky shooter, but he is
someone that's willing to get him up. And when you
look at someone that has attempted seven a game over
the last two years career thirty four thirty five percent,

(50:09):
I think if he's shooting thirty four to thirty five
percent at seven attempts a game and playing defense and
willing to create and take tough shots and make tough
shots when the defense bogs down, I think that that's
something that can be valuable. So there are no home
runs when it comes to free agency, especially with the
options that the Cavs have. This is going to be

(50:29):
a tough line to straddle, but that's probably where I
fall on this. Where are you at?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I was about to say, permission to answer my own question,
I think I almost agree with you. Grant Williams would
be my number one, And I also think there's enough
teams that are navigating their way to open space that
he might not be gettable that for that number, I
think the fact that he came out and played really,
really tough for Boston down the stretch after being in

(50:56):
and out of the rotation early in the playoffs, and
you know, and just the fact that he's a young
guy who can play the play the four hit a
really nice percentage on his open threes, So I just
think he's going to price himself out of that. However,
I think when you're looking at the Caves, two biggest
lessons to take away from the postseason is we need

(51:16):
toughness and we need shooting. And he's a tough player
who is not afraid of anybody or anything. I think,
you know, a lot of people clowned him after he
went at Jimmy Butler. I thought that was great.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I love that kind of attitude. And I think the
Cabs need some more bad dudes that are willing to
willing to get up and challenge their opponents.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Even clarify what you mean by bad dudes.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Well, you know what I mean, like badasses, you know,
and like I just like his toughness. I like, I
love the positional versatility. A player like that could give
the caves, you know, right, Like in that playoff series
it was play the two bigs or play Danny Green
at the four, you know, And like the idea of
being able to just to have a more known commodity

(52:03):
at the three four swing would be good. Everyone tells
me he shouldn't play the three. I just watched Lowry
Markinen play the three for this team on a very
good defense. If you scheme appropriately, I think they could
certainly survive minutes there. So I really like Grant Williams Struce.
I don't need to reiterate, you made all the great points.

(52:23):
The only thing I'll say about Struce or Williams is
what's interesting about this is I don't think whoever they
sign is not the is probably not who I would
start at the three. And I think some people think
that because there's that kind of perceived hole the three,
that whoever they sign needs to fill that role. I
love Max Struce because what you can get is you

(52:46):
look at Donovan's lineup data when Darius was out of
the lineup, and the offense was pretty rough comparatively, And
I think my conclusion I drew from that obviously, other
than that Darius is an amazing playmaker and makes offenses great,
was that Donnia's playing with a lot of cramped lineups
when Darius was sitting. Darius is the best shooter on

(53:06):
the team. So the idea of Darius or Donovan having
an elite shooter with them every second the other one
is sitting is very, very appealing to me. And Streuce
doesn't wouldn't have to close every game to make that
a worthwhile signing for me. You know, I think just
constant shooting on the floor is something the Cabs could

(53:28):
not say about themselves last year, and I would like
them to come closer to being able to say that
this year. I would actually go as splitting up the
mid level after that. My next in my rankings. I
love the idea of if you're not going to get
a perfect fit, getting a couple of bites at the
Apple at a perfect at a at a at a

(53:48):
good fit, and you know, giving yourself more chances to
get your seventh and eighth rotation. Guys, I think there
are a lot of interesting players that are in that
kind of sub mid level range that I would really
love to see on the Cavs. You know, a guy
like George Niang, a guy like Dario Sarich, the kind
of people who you might be able to piece me

(54:09):
all out and get that you wouldn't be able to
get for the minimum. So I think I would go
there and then Uber, you know, which is funny because
he's my lowest ranked option here. I don't think it's
a bad thing they signed Kelly Ubray. I just think
when you're evaluating what Kobe Altman told us in the
immediate postseason, where he said, shooting is a problem. We

(54:29):
got to address our shooting, your road to addressing that
gets murkier and you have to get more creative with
how you how you're going to address that, is it
Seth Curry for the bi annual or something like that,
or you know, maybe trying to orchestrate a trade. But
it's I if they just were to sign Kelly Ubra

(54:51):
and then fill out the roster with minimum players, I
think it'll be harder for them to say, yeah, we
addressed our shooting this offseason. So because of that, that
making a road hard, and that's the thing I care
most about. He would be my lowest ranked option, even
though he might be the best player of a degree
in a vacuum. Yes, so so like it's an interesting

(55:12):
conundrum that Cavs find themselves in. I have another question
for you, Truo. Do we think Harry Barnes might be
a little more available at that number than we think
he will? Then we thought he was, you know, just
just a month ago, because the cap space teams are
not a plenty. He's getting a little bit older, and

(55:34):
his team certainly looks like they're prepping a big offer elsewhere. Yeah,
your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
I guess maybe Again, that's a guy that I think
will go for more than the middle of the exception.
But I am interested to see the ripple effects of
you know, Gary Trent Junior taking his player option not
hitting the free agent market like that seemed like below
market value, not agreed nas reed signed for below mark

(56:02):
fourteen million. I thought he would get way more than that.
You look at the reported trade to day with John
Collins going to Utah. All of a sudden, the team
that had twenty five million in cab space may no
longer have that Cab space because they just absorbed a
player into that that's going to have ripple effects when
there really weren't that many teams with cap space. So
I guess looking at that in theory, it's possible. But again, it.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Just was a thing that pop passed through my brain
in a fleeting moment today, I was like, hmm, I
was sure Harrison Barnes was going to get eighteen to
twenty and be far outside of the Caves range. And
now I'm just I'm just twenty percent less sure, And
talk about a great fit for this roster. Once Warriors
nemesis Harrison.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Barnes, Yeah, I mean that he's already helped the Calves
win one championship. I'd love to see him win another
with the Cab. Now we can't sign him. We've dogged
him too thoroughly. No, I really like Kerry Be Honestly.
I think he got way too much flack from Warriors
fans who are looking to make excuses for their guys.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
But really good in Games one through three of that series.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah, yeah, he was good in the Warriors wins. And
he wasn't the only player that was bad in those Warriors' losses.
Just don't ask Warriors fans. They will tell you that, yeah,
I mean, he would obviously be an exciting option. And
like the sense I'm getting from you is that it
matters sort of operations, right, Like it matters who goes first,

(57:30):
who's available. Like even looking back at last summer, like
there were reports that the Cavs were interested in guys
like Kyle Anderson and a bunch of small Fords. They
all went and then they signed Ricky Rubio, Robin Lopez, Howell, Netto.
That was later. I always feel like people act like
that was day one free agency signings. They explored other

(57:51):
options first. And I feel like the Cavs are going
to have a better free agency pitch this time around,
because you have Donovan Mitchell, you have Garius Garland who
continues to get that or as a player. You have
Evan Mobley, who established himself as one of the best
defensive players in the league already at twenty two. And
We've said this a million times. Their development matters more

(58:12):
than anything that happens in free agency. But I do
think the development they showed this past season is going
to make Cleveland a more appealing location. So landing one
of these guys would be really exciting. I definitely get
the case you're making for splitting up the mid level exception.
I'm also curious to see what they do with like
the bi annual exception, what they do with the that

(58:32):
minimum signing is, Like do they bring back Danny Green?
I would love to see Danny Green back on this team.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
I would too, I'd be very interested to see kind
of what they where they are on that and where
Danny is in his recovery. And that actually leads me
to my next question. And I have a few answers
if you need a moment to gather, because we did
all our prep for the Spinella side of the pod,
we're spitball on in here. But do you have any
kind of off the beaten path names that aren't going

(58:59):
to be the higher paid folks in free agency that
you're like, Oh, man, you know, like my Howell Netto
obsession that happened for that lasted for years. Who are
the guys you're if the Cabs were to sign and
maybe add with minimum or bi annual exception kind of money,
would you go, Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to
have that player join the team.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
I don't know if anyone would go so excited name that.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
I'm thinking the irrationally excited where it's like this probably
won't be that great, but I just really like the player.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
I really like you to Wata Nabe. I liked him
when he was with Toronto. I think that he's not
a volume guy, but he can provide two way impact
and he's really kind of grown as a shooter, so
he'd be something that someone that I find interesting. Maybe TJ.
Warren just like going backfire, yeah, going off the bubble

(59:54):
hype and just hoping that hey, maybe lightning he catch
lightning in a bottle another time. I don't know. There's
not a lot of names that were really excited.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I got a lot of names for you, brother. If
people I would really really be interested.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
How many are Canadian? Oh, shape or sept let's throw
him out there too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
He is not on my list though. I am a
fan Cada based job who is just quietly turned into
a really nice swing big in San Antonio. Over the years,
and they've they've added a healthy amount of big big
man talent in the draft between Leonard Miller and obviously
the greatest prospects since Lebron James. Maybe he becomes available,

(01:00:34):
maybe they maybe they let him walk. Moe Wagner in
Orlando could be a really nice center option that has
a little juice for a team that continues to add very,
very playable players, and like he might be a guy
that they're like, well, you know, like he's just not
a priority. Troy Brown, I don't think. I'm not sure

(01:00:57):
how expensive a guy like that would be, but he's
someone I really I'm a really big fan of Damian Lee.
I thought he played gave really really good minutes to
the Phoenix Suns and could be kind of the poor
man's version of like what a Max Truce edition would
look like. You can really really shoot the ball. There's
a lot of cool players. Trey Lyles is a cool

(01:01:18):
player the Canadian count it that I think would be
a really fun fit. You know, there are just so
many names out here. I really like Jimichael Green as
a as a four or five kind of big who
can who can shoot the ball a little bit and
add a little bit of space. I just think there's
a lot of roads for this team to go with

(01:01:40):
with to fill out their roster, and I'm really excited
to see, because you look at how many players are
for sure going to be on the team, is not
that they're going to have at least a few minimum
contracts to dole out. And kind of who they choose
to invest in, I think is going to tell us
a lot about kind of where they want to patch
up their roster. Do they want add a third point

(01:02:00):
guard and like they had and how will netto last year,
or do they want to let it ride knowing that
Harris can can handle, Ricky can handle, Donnie can handle
in a pension, maybe invest a little bit more on
a few swings at the wing or on bigs. I'm
really excited to see how they fill out the entire roster,
not just where they're going to spend the big money,

(01:02:22):
because we see teams find helpful players on minimum contracts
all the time, and I think that I'm holding the
Calves accountable to that as much as I am on
their mid level of like, hey, you have to find
wins when your asset poor on the trade market because
you did make an all in move on a guy

(01:02:43):
like Donovan Mitchell. You have to find cool, interesting players
who help you all over the place. So they really
have to have no stone unturned type of policy heading
into this offseason. I'm really excited to see how they
fill out the roster.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
I am too, and you know what, I and feeling
even more rejuvenated looking at what they did on Draft night,
looking at Hey took a really interesting swing on him
on the baits and Adam Spanella did a great job
getting to be more excited for him. Craig Porter Junior,
if that does in fact come down to pass, that's
a guy that I can see, you know, kind of
one of those moves on the fringes that pans out

(01:03:20):
the same way Dean Wade and Lamar Stevens did. And
we'll see what happens. Right Like, if they do use
the mid level exception all in one shunk and get
that seventh guy you feel really good about, I'm sure
they're going to explore trade options as well, right Like,
it might not be resolved with one of those minimum
contract signings, but maybe maybe you find a guy that
you know just no longer has the opportunity or needs

(01:03:44):
a change of scenery, and that ends up being a
hit for the Cavs. Like, I really don't think it's
going to take tons. I know they have limited options
to work with here. But this is a front office
that's been aggressive, that's been creative, that's valued skill sets
in traditional ways as well and said, hey, we will

(01:04:04):
make weird fits work if the skill sets mesh. And
I'm really interested to see what they do with that. Obviously,
we will be quiet from here on out until after
July six, once some of these trends. Yeah, I'm actually
going to be fleeing the city Carter. I'm going back.
I'm doing a little bit of a cabin trip for

(01:04:26):
starting Friday through Tuesday, so I'll be a little more quiet,
but I'll be I'll still be checking my phone compulsively
because I'm just curious to see what every rumor in
Rumbling is. Big thanks to everyone that tuned in live.
Big thanks Damas Spinel. Make sure you guys are subscribing
to the Box and One phenomenal YouTube channel Phenomenal and Analysis.

(01:04:47):
I am tired, speaking of cabin. I was working all
week in Carter, so I powered, I was working really down.
I'm very very sore. I powered. Just chugged a green
tea before this year podcast, and yeah, I made it.

(01:05:08):
I probably rushed through a few too many things because
the green he was bringing the demons out of me.
But you know what it is, what it is massive.
Thanks to everyone that tuned in live on the YouTube.
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(01:05:28):
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