Full Episode - A GREAT Night For Democrats + Democracy Denied: Inside the Push for D.C. & Puerto Rico Statehood - The Chuck ToddCast

Episode Transcript
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Hello there, Happy Thursday. Welcome to another episode of the
check podcast. We are forty eight hours removed from essentially
the beginning of the midterm elections, and I'll get to
my reasoning on that again in a minute, But essentially

(01:51):
the twenty twenty six campaign started Election Night twenty twenty five.
Obviously some of you may have watched watch my Election
Night live stream. First of all, just we are ecstatic
how well that went. For those of you that tunedn't
thank you. We had a huge audience, nearly half a
million people coming in. At any point in time, were

(02:13):
still trying to figure out the data, but it blew
the doors off, whether you caught us on X on YouTube,
whether it was on my pages, decision to s HQ,
chrys Elizzes substack. That was the beauty of this. We
could be in so many different platforms. We had tremendous
guests who brought information. It was data oriented. This wasn't

(02:34):
some partisan make yourself feel good or bad fest. This
was simply what was happening. What should we learn from this?
What's the takeaways with people who are charged with either
figuring out how to win or lose an election for
Team Red or Team Blue, or figuring out what happened
to explain blain to you. Look, we're so pleased with

(02:58):
how this went. This is something we hope and plan
to do again, and we'd love to hear from you
of thoughts, suggestions. What did you like that we did,
What do you wish we didn't do that we did?
And what do you wish that we did do that
we didn't? You know, we really tried to gear this
towards those that wanted that were following this stuff pretty

(03:21):
closely and wanted to understand what the heck was happening
on the ground. Election night and various I know, for me,
I learned a whole bunch of stuff from our guests,
the newsgirls and what the work that they did in
New York. I want to give them another shout out
maybe and rent there and the newsgirls and what they
did with covering voters in New York City and really

(03:42):
sort of capturing the story before anybody else got it,
which was what was happening with Republican voters in New
York City and how much that they held their nose
to support Cuomo. So just a tremendous success and I'm
just tickled about it. And yes, I used the word
Tickle's call me an old man for doing that. But

(04:04):
we're going to do more of this, but we definitely
would love feedback and suggestions, so don't be shy about that.
I want to get a little bit more. And I
feel like when you have a day to sort of
unpack everything you can, you know, it's the day after
a storm hits you. Sometimes you think you know the
damage on the night of the storm, but sometimes you

(04:24):
need the sunlight, right And so in a few minutes,
we're going to take a look at things after I've
been able to look at things with some light and
in the light of day. I have a great interesting
set of interviews today. It is all about whether we
are going to have fifty one or fifty two states

(04:44):
in the next decade. I have a dual interview, one
with DC's shadow representative, oya O Aluay. He is an
elected lobbyist for d C statehood. There are shadow senators
and a shadow representative. That is, they are actually run
for office. They are elected by the citizens of DC.
This is their job trying essentially to lobby Congress for statehood.

(05:09):
And it's a joint interview with the executive director of
PR fifty one, George laws Garcia, which of course is
the effort by those in Puerto Rico who would like
to become the fifty first state. I did this interview
about about two weeks ago, and this is something I've
been wanting, an issue I've been wanting to touch on.
But in some ways President Trump made this interview at

(05:31):
tadmore relevant. In the last forty eight hours. He's been
pushing Republicans to get rid of the filibuster, which if
your Oyao Aluay, whose job is to get DC statehood,
he's ecstatic with that idea. Because he believes if Democrats
get the majority in both the House and the Senate

(05:52):
at the same time like they had before, even if
it's not filibuster proof, that they will be able to
get that vote for DC statehood. Puerto Rican thinks the
same thing. But what was interesting, and frankly, what I
think was wrong about President Trump's take on this is
he said, I know that with the Philip Uster getting
rid of it, it means DC will get two more
states and four more Democratic senators. That's why I don't

(06:15):
buy that, and that's why I did this interview as
a pair. I mean, we basically have four million Americans
who lack representation in our government. They're taxpayers, they live
in Puerto Rico, or they live in this sort of
Columbia's nearly over three million people in Puerto Rico, nearly
a million people in DC who don't have basic representation

(06:39):
in the US Congress don't have Essentially, they are less
they have lesser rights than Americans that live in the
fifty States. But and this is what George las Garcia
is going to inform you about. But if you have
followed Puerto Rico politics, it is not one party politics. Yes,
maybe DC has a big Democratic lean, but I'm also

(07:02):
somebody who realizes there's never there's always politics supports vacuums
no matter how, and we see it in hard solid
red states, solid blue states. There's always an ability for
some entity to fill the vacuum and become the opposition
and possibly have success. And as both George and Oya

(07:25):
will let you know during this interview, what you think
of state is going to be when it's led into
the Union will surprise you only a few years later
when they actually become states. Alaska and Hawhi are two
great examples. When they were brought into the Union, the
assumption was Hawaii was going to be a Republican state
and Alaska was going to be the Democratic state, and

(07:46):
basically it's been the exact opposite of that outside of
the first couple of years. So I think it's a
timely interview. And I know a lot of people don't
quite understand the issue of statehood. What does it take.
I hope this conversation explains it pretty well, and I
hope it sort of for those of you that are
skeptical of whether we should be expanding states, ask yourself

(08:10):
if you were one of the four million people who
live somewhere that doesn't have basic representation. How you would
feel about that if you didn't have that kind of
So that's my long interview. It's a great conversation, and again,
yes it's a little bit a one off of the
conversation we're having at the moment given the political environment.

(08:33):
But in some ways it's an important piece of information
because you never know what's around the corner when it
comes to this issue of either DC statehood or Puerto
Rico statehood. Obviously, I'll also do some questions and hey,
it's Thursday, it's a college football weekend, and I'm going

(08:56):
to another college football game this weekend. I'll explain after
the interview and after on the other side, after we
do some q and a's, but before we get there, uh,
you know, in the light of day, with a little
extra time to look at all the results. Tuesday night
was a big night for Democrats. This was not just

(09:16):
a good night for them, it was it was bigger
than they would have expected. And I can tell you
what surprised me. I mean, did I expect Spamberger to win,
Cheryl to win, and mom Donnie win, Yes, yes, and yes,
but it was the fact that Spamberger was able to
win by double digits, and she dragged Jay Jones, the
attorney the controversial attorney general candidate, across the finish line,

(09:38):
a candidate by the way, that Spamberger did not reindorse
after the controversial text messages became released. He certainly underperformed
Spamberger by a good five to seven points, but she
won by such a big margin. Democratic turnout was so
big that it was enough to overcome that. So I

(09:59):
would say, be careful assuming, you know, one of the
quick knee jerk takeaways of this might be ah, character
doesn't matter. Right, We've seen it with Donald Trump. Now,
we've seen it with Jay Jones. You know how many
times we've seen it with Bill Clinton? Right? How many
times do we need to be reminded of this? And
then I would say, well, look at the margins, you know,
you know, but for in a different national political environment,

(10:21):
these texts would have cost j Jones the election, that's
the bottom line. But because it was such an awful
environment for Republicans in such a good environment for Democrats,
that ended up it looks like it doesn't matter. But
don't kid yourself. Go look at those margins. It did matter.
It just didn't cost him the election. But that's the

(10:42):
point here, that's how big the Democratic turnout was. Take
a look at the state of New Jersey. Jack Chiarelli
essentially got the hit all of his targets that he
did four years ago in twenty twenty one when he
came within three points of Phil Murphy. It was a
pretty competitive New Jersey governors rights well, he hit those

(11:03):
same numbers, but the turnout among Democrats was so much
greater in the democratic areas than Mikey. Cheryl won rather comfortable,
So it was a huge turnout. Basically, Democrats showed up
base Republicans did not. And in fact, the best example
of this was not in New Jersey, was not in Virginia,

(11:24):
not in New York City. It was in Georgia. They
had two public Service commissioner races. And for those of
you that don't live in the South, this is a
little bit more of a Southern state thing, and there's
a few other states that do it this way, where
essentially the group of folks that oversee the public utilities
in a state that help approve whether they can have

(11:46):
a rate height on your electric bills. And by the way,
this I'm going to get to the electric bills issue
in a minute. In some states, these are elected officials
in some states that are appointed by a governor or
appointed by a legislature. In this case, these are elected officials. Now,
these are two Republican incumbents. They neither of them ever
faced voters before they were appointed by the governor and

(12:08):
then had to stand for reelection. There was a bit
of it. This was sort of there had been a lawsuit.
If you want to get some of the details about
this race, I encourage you to go deeper on this
and why these two seats were on the ballot essentially
for voter affirmation on whether they were going to accept

(12:29):
the appointee or whether they wanted this alternative. But what
you had in Georgia was a fairly low turnout and
there was a lot of money spent in those races,
so it was essentially a test of whose voters showed up.
And this is a battleground state, right Georgia frankly is
a state that I think of is still a bit
light red. You know, when you look at where the

(12:49):
Democrats carried it in twenty twenty won a couple of
Senate seats in the runoff after Donald Trump essentially messed
up those runoff races. Rafael Warnock wins in twenty twenty two,
but gets forced into a runoff by essentially the worst
Senate nominee that Georgia Republicans have had in a generation.
But it took a runoff for him to win. So

(13:11):
I've been a bit skeptical that Georgia truly is a
battleground state, that maybe it was just sort of an
It's still a lean red state that Democrats have to
catch a few breaks in order to win statewide, and
in particularly state level races, they had been getting crushed.
They They hadn't won a state level race, I think
since two thousand and nine, when a gentleman named Michael Thurman,

(13:34):
who happens to be running for governor this time, was
able to win a low level, down ballot statewide race.
And here we are and it wasn't even that close.
It was a wipeout. Now, I will say that this
and I think this is a little nugget that people
ought to be aware of. I wouldn't be surprised if
some voters simply went into the polls and said my

(13:55):
electric bills too damn high. I'm voting out the incumbent, right,
And there was a denotion of who the incumbent was.
And so I don't want to underestimate the power of
pissed off voters about their electric bills having an impact
when you get to directly express your frustration to the
Public Service commissioner who oversees rate hikes. But this was

(14:17):
a generic test of the two parties. And I'll tell
you this. If I'm John Ossoff, the Democratic senator up
for reelection in twenty twenty six, the most vulnerable Democratic
incumbent senator in the country, I think it's fair to
say you feel I heck of a lot better about
your chances today than perhaps you did yesterday. Look, he's

(14:37):
a fundraising juggernaut. He's going to have plenty of money.
He's catching a break that Republicans can't settle on a nominee.
Brian Kemp's got his choice. And the son of former
Georgia football coach legend Vince Dooley, It's Derek Dooley. You
got two other candidates vying. They're all vying for the
Donald Trump endorsement. None of them have gotten that just
yet you got Mike Collins in this race, son of

(15:00):
Matt Collins, Buddy Carter running as well, so it's a
you know, he's catching a break. There's a lot of
money is going to be spent between these three guys
just trying to get this nomination. But now I'm starting
to think I was, you know, I assume that the
governor's race was sort of a soft ar Lean here. Yes,
Brian kempis term limited, especially if a guy like Brad Raffensberger,

(15:24):
the outgoing Republican Secretary State, gets that nomination. But now
you have to be pretty bullish about Democrats' chances up
and down the ballot in the state of Georgia based
on these results. But look, this wasn't just Virginia or
New Jersey or Georgia. In Pennsylvania, Republicans throw a bunch
of money trying to throw out a few Supreme Court justices.

(15:45):
They have an up or down they don't. These were
retention elections, and then if the voters choose to not
retain the Supreme Court justice, the governor would appoint a
temporary and then there would be an election in twenty
twenty seven to fill to let the voters decide who
the long term justice should be. And Democrats beat back

(16:09):
all all of those sort of attempts by Republicans to
upend that Supreme Court. It's a five to two majority
right now in favor of the Democrats. That is twenty
twenty eight implications. Right, you know who's going to be
making the decisions about ballots and about whether the polls,
what time the polls should stay open to, or when

(16:29):
early voting should begin, or what's the signature rules when
it comes to absentee ballots. This little these little things matter,
but more importantly organizationally, the party engaged here and yet
they got swamped. This was a repudiation of Donald Trump.

(16:50):
And here's why I say that. If you look at
the exit polling, and certainly if you look at the
polling that I highlighted in my Monday podcast, the Republican
Party brand is in better shape than the Democratic Party brand.
Right The Democratic Party has some of the highest unfavorable
ratings that's had in decades. And in fact, the in
the network exit polls they did do a collective exit poll,

(17:14):
the Democratic Party had an unfavorable rating in the state
of Virginia of over fifty percent. That didn't prevent Abigail Spenberger,
the Democratic nominee for governor, from having the biggest victory
of any Democrat in forty years. And it's the biggest
victory of any candidate for governor since Bob McDonald's victory
in two thousand and nine. So this despite the unpopularity

(17:39):
of the Democratic brand, Democrats won big. So how do
you explain it? Two words? Donald Trump, Because his unfavorable
rating is basically equal to the Democrats. Donald Trump's brand
is in worse shape than the Republican Party brand. And
that is the driver. As I always say, you know,

(18:03):
presidents create the political weather. You know, we use a
lot of I use I say we I use a
lot of weather metaphors when it comes to politics. Right, collectively,
the entire political analyst community uses a lot of weather metaphors. So,
sticking with that metaphor, it is a president that creates
the weather. It is his political environment, especially a second

(18:27):
term president, especially someone who has got such control of
his party. And this is where his reaction, I think
tells you where this could be. And I think the
next three weeks are going to be fascinating inside the
Republican Party. As this finger pointing starts to set in,

(18:47):
Donald Trump, for whatever reason, just handed Democrats more leverage
on the government shutdown debate. Why do I say he
handed Democrats more leverage because he chose to blame the
shutdown for the losses of the Republicans. So in Trump's view,
because remember, nothing is Donald Trump's fault when things go badly.

(19:09):
When things go badly in Donald Trump's world, you have
to find someone else to blame. Donald Trump is not
going to accept the premise that he alone is why
Democrats had such an easy time getting their people to
the polls. That is something he's not going to accept.
But the fact that he goes out there and Chuck Schumer,

(19:30):
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life insurance is something you should really think about it,
especially if you've got a growing family. When Donald Trump

(21:18):
goes out there and said the reason they lost was
one Trump wasn't on the ballot, the inference there is
because there's a whole bunch of low propensity voters that
only show up when Donald Trump's on the ballot. Right,
We've seen this in sixteen and twenty once again in
twenty four, we've seen them in the midterms. They didn't
show up in eighteen, they didn't show up in twenty two,
and it looks like we're going to see a bit

(21:39):
of the same thing in twenty six because they didn't
show up in twenty five. And then he also said,
and this shutdown is killing the Republicans. So if you're
Mike Johnson and John Thune, you've spent the last six weeks,
I think it feeling is if you had higher ground
than the Democrats, because it was Ruck Schumer's decision to

(22:02):
sort of lead the Democrats into saying, no, we're not
going to do this, We're we're we're going to you know,
this was a shutdown instigated by the Democrats. And you know,
when you've looked at the polling, there's been it's been fairly.
As I said, it all depends on how you want
to spin the numbers. But the NBC poll offered three
punches on who's to blame for the shutdown Democrats in Congress,

(22:26):
Republicans in Congress, or Donald Trump. Well, when you add
up those that blame Trump pluck with those that blame
Congressional Republicans, you get up to fifty two percent, And
it was forty two percent that blamed Democrats in Congress.
You know, so you could it. But the offering was
separately right, and I've look I think the only question

(22:47):
I would have done is I might have added a
fourth punch so that you could have had it a
little more even I might have said, you know, progressives
in the Democratic Party, because if you know, one of
the theories of the case that some on the right
have espoused, and some of us have wondered, that did
Schumer do this because of pressure from the progressive base
to confront Trump? More so maybe you offer that punch

(23:10):
in that way you can I think more evenly. I'm
a little hesitant combining one set of numbers and comparing
it to a standalone that that would be my only
caution there. But it doesn't matter now, right, Perception is reality,
and Donald Trump uttered the new reality. He's blaming Republicans

(23:30):
in Congress and the Republican Party for the shutdown. How
the heck now do we get? I mean, look, I
really was a believer, and I thought, okay, everybody, everybody
cees here, this is gonna We're going to lay in
this plane in some form or another. You know, you
heard the conversation before Tuesday night there were eight Democratic

(23:51):
senators starting to meet with a group of other Republican senators.
They were coming. Eight is the magic number that they
need in order. That's the number of number of votes
they need to get to sixty if they go with
all the Republican votes here. And then this all happened.
So now it's very interesting. Yet Donald Trump blaming Republicans.
So now you're going to get more Democrats feeling as if, Okay,

(24:14):
there's no penalty here for sticking to our guns. You're
gonna have a progressive base that is whispering in the
ear of Akim Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer. Don't back down now.
Not only did you not pay a price at the polls,
you may have benefited from standing up to Donald Trump
right now in the polls. And look at all of
the self inflicted wounds Donald Trump is doing right now

(24:37):
to his own party and to himself via the shutdown.
Right he does not have the discipline to not confess
or to not to stick with a message that at
least was getting them to even but he threw the

(24:59):
party under the bus. And this is going to be
the real challenge I think going forward for elected Republicans,
because when you have a result like this in an off,
off year, you're going to have there's there's you know,
we're we're hitting an interesting six week period where if
you are on the fence about running for reelection, you've

(25:19):
got to this is your final your final time, your
final exit ramp before filing deadlines begin. In fact, there's
some filing deadlines that are just about to come up
right now for the early twenty twenty six primaries. But
for the most part, you know, if you're going, you know,
if you're going to retire, and you're you know, maybe
you thought you were going to run for reelection, you

(25:40):
wanted to see what the political environment was going to
be at the end of the year. Well, you've now
got a taste, because you know, if history is any guide,
you know how these twenty how these off off year
election goes, they absolutely foreshadow what's going to happen a
year later, barring some unforeseen event that radically changes the
political landscape. And that we've lived through terrorist attacks and

(26:01):
a pandemic. I'm not going to sit here and say
that there's you know, no zero, The chances are zero
there's some event that just totally upends everything. But let's
be realistic, it's more likely than not that that won't happen.
That if anything, we're going to continue to have this
sort of uneven economy, an economy that those that don't
have are going to feel like they're being left behind.

(26:24):
So you're going to have an angry electorate on the economy.
The tariffs are none of them do good for the economy,
and in fact, we may get more chaos as it
appears that the Supreme Court is going to say that
Donald Trump is violating the Constitution with his tariff policy,
and that this all has to you know that this

(26:46):
is the power, This is a power that Congress has.
It is not a power that the executive branch has,
which will only set his agenda back even further. So
you know how many Republicans House Republicans decide, why do
I got to pay Donald Trump's debt? When Donald Trump's
not on the ballot? Right, maybe I can win reelection
if Donald Trump can get his voters out and I

(27:07):
can suck it up and take the uncomfortable aspects of
supporting Trump that come with it, because he brings a
type of a different type of voter to the polls
that nobody sees in polling, and it helps them win reelection.
But if Donald Trump's not on the ballot, and you
have to essentially you get all the downside of Trump
with none of the upside. Do you want to run

(27:31):
for reelection if you're in a if you're in a
tough race. So the biggest development, I think, and the
biggest piece of fallout that's coming, is going to be
that there's going to be some additional retirements throw in
this redistricting madness that has taken place. Right, talk about
a reminder, be careful what you know, would pick your cliche,

(27:52):
Be careful what you wish for or when you know,
it's easy to start a war, it's much harder to
end it. So Donald Trump orders Texas to start this
redistricting war. It rallies Gavin Newsom and organizes the California
Democratic Party and unifies them in a way that they
haven't been unified in decades. You've now got a record

(28:16):
number of House delegates in the Virginia Assembly, encouraging them
now to do redistricting that will favor the Democrats, that
will put more pressure on Maryland to join. Yes, there's
been pressure put on your Indiana's, your Missouri's, Kansas has
decided to pull back. But I imagine now you know,
in for a dime, in for a dollar, you're going

(28:37):
to see Trump go even harder at Kansas to have
to do this. But the irony all this is is
Donald Trump thought he was going to be gaining an
advantage doing this. Democrats are fighting fire with fire. I'm
sorry that the unintended consequence is going to be fewer
competitive elections in general, But the larger outcome here is

(28:57):
going to be We're going to go from a faily
even national map when it comes to house races to
a fairly even national map after all these changes are made,
you know, Okay, so maybe you pick up three or
four in Texas on the Republican side, Democrats may pick
up three or four. In California, Republicans may get one

(29:19):
or two more. In Indiana, Democrats may get three more.
In Virginia, Republicans may get one more. In Missouri, they
may get one or two more. In North Carolina, Democrats
could get another one or two if they choose to
in a New York or New or even in New Jersey.
The point is they and then you had Ohio Republicans

(29:42):
cut a deal that is a less aggressive map that
Republicans could have embarked on. Look, the downside is just
fewer competitive races. But I'll tell you this too, because
there's something else that developed out of the election night
in twenty twenty five. You know, a lot of Republicans

(30:02):
and this is always a mistake, you know, never assume
that your success in a presidential election year means your
new coalition becomes durable. And I think a lot of
Republicans thought, hey, look we won these Latino voters. Now
they're in there are voters just like Barack Obama in
twenty thirteen and to excumeing twenty twelve did extraordinarily well

(30:24):
with Latinos, and so there it was. Democrats thought, there
it is. They just have to do the youth, young voters,
black voters, and brown voters, and they win. And it
turned out nope. You know, there was plenty of voters
who were voting for Barack Obama who would go back
to being up for grabs. Barack Obama wasn't on the ballot.
And there's plenty of these working class voters, whether you're black, white, Hispanic,

(30:48):
that are pocketbook sensitive and they're going to vote for
the candidate that is speaking to the issues they care
the most about. Well, Donald Trump was talking about prices
and cost of living issue in twenty twenty four. He's
not doing that in twenty twenty five. Democrats in New
Jersey and in New York City and in Virginia. One
thing all three of those winners did that was similar

(31:12):
was talk about cost of living issues. And they guess what,
they all did better with Latino voters than Kamala Harris did,
who didn't talk about those issues. She closed with the
democracy issue. So imagined redistricting Texas, thinking, oh, look We've
got this new constituency of Latino voters that are now

(31:35):
going to be Republican voters. No they're not. They're swing voters,
and they're probably going to be swing voting. By the way,
the working class voter in America has always been the
swing voter if you look at politics more through class
than you do identity, and I think that's been the mistake.
I really believe that. I think the Democratic Party's mistake
since Obama was assuming they won those voters on identity issues,

(31:59):
not due to financial issues, which really is a translation
class issues. Republicans went after these voters of color using class,
not identity. And when you look at why you know
Reagan Democrats voted Republican, well, that was code for working
class Democrats in the Midwest voters. Yes, there was certainly

(32:22):
there was certainly a cultural connection on that front, but
ultimately they were voting on their own issues and its
class issues. And so the working class vote in America
it's always been the swing vote. And the mistake Democrats
made for the last decade was treating Latino voters like

(32:43):
they were an identity group that belonged to the Democratic Coalition,
when ultimately many Latino voters are blue collar, are in
blue collar jobs, and are voting pocketbook issues. They don't
look at the two parties as part of their identity.
They look at the two parties the same way men,
any voters look at the two parties, which one is
going to give me an opportunity for a better quality

(33:06):
of life? You know, this is where it goes. You know,
the infamous Carvel line. If it's the economy stupid, it's
always to a group of voters, it's always about their issues,
their financial stability. So bottom line, this wasn't a good
night for Democrats. It was a great night for Democrats

(33:27):
to get over sixty seats in that Virginia House. That
delegates to me for shadows what could be the beginning
of a blue wave election. Now, look, there's still a
lot that could change things. The Republicans and Donald Trump
have a ton of money. But I do keep an
eye on this. It is going to be easier for
a Republican. There's going to be many Republican candidates are

(33:50):
going to start to distance themselves from Trump in some
form or another, or try to. I don't know if
anybody can do it outside of Susan Collins because she's
been doing it for so long. She's just in some
ways main voters do not consider her trumpet. How does
that work itself out? And the more the more vulnerable

(34:11):
Trump looks, the weaker he looks, the more he's going
to lash out, the more he's going to attack anybody
that tries to essentially seek a little distance for him.
I mean, look when some Earl series, she tried to
have it both ways. She wanted the magabase, but she
knew the Northern Virginia voters, right. It says a lot
to me that Glenn Youngkin's fifty five percent job rating,

(34:34):
that one in four young positive youngin job approvers voter
Frabagil Spamberger. So you know, to me, it's another sign
that this was as much about Trump as it was
about anything else. If the Republican Party brand is non Trump,
they have an easier chance in some of these elections
than they do when they're associated. When the Republican Party

(34:56):
brand becomes synonymous with Trump's brand. And so that's what
I'm going to be looking for over the next six
weeks is are you going to start to see more
Republicans try to find their way to seek some distance
on some issues. It's going to be made easy for
him Supreme Court rules against his authority over tariffs. Watch
how many Republican senators start to act more independently on

(35:20):
the issue of tariff's. You already have seen it a
little bit, right. He's putting pressure on them with nuke
and the filibuster. It's interesting who's with them. It is
those that are in some ways more maggatrue believers. Your
Josh Holly's, your Jim Banks, They're all in. It's the
institutionalists that are pushing back and the Senate Republicans. There's

(35:41):
still quite a few of the institutionalists there. There are
two people that I'm very curious to see what they're
going to have to say about the filibuster on that
side of the aisle. One is Rick Scott and the
others Tom Cotton. Both have wanted to be always sought
approval of a world, but they've always been in the

(36:02):
It's a fine line, right, they're a little bit my
canaries in the coal mine. If they start to seek
distance from Trump on something, it tells me that we
might be seeing more Republicans abandonship. But that's the big
short term development, to keep an eye on how Trump mishandles, frankly,

(36:25):
the fallout from this election. He's gonna he's already flailing's
he is not accepting the premise that he creates this weather,
and how elected Republicans walk this line and deal with it.
I think it's going to be something to watch and
certainly something I'm going to keep an eye on. And
it could be in the words Valley Barber, good gets better,
bad gets worse. Democrats had a good night and they

(36:48):
appeared they could be This could improve candidate recruiting. They're
going to suddenly have Senate candidates in Alaska and in
Kansas and in places they've been trying to recruit because
you're going to have fencit or say hey, maybe this
is a good year to run as a Democrat in
a light red state like Kansas. And then on the
opposite side you may see bad gets worse. Republicans had

(37:08):
a bad night. If you're on the fence about seeking reelection,
you think Donald Trump's a drag, you don't get any
of the upside of Trump being on the ballot. You
may seek to run for decide to retire instead of
seek reelection. Opening the door for more room for a
Democrat to run. So this is why what happened on
Tuesday night is so significant and potentially such a huge

(37:28):
game changer going into twenty twenty six because guess what
it's I'm now in the thirty to forty five percent
range in my head that Democrats could win control of
both the House and the Senate. Get it, get an
you get a uneven turnout based turnout like you saw

(37:49):
in twenty twenty five on Tuesday, then you might get
for Democratic Senate pickups and certainly the handful of how
seats that they need to get that, and that would
be some rebuke going into twenty twenty eight. All right,
So with that, let's take a break. We'll sneak at

(38:10):
a break and we'll tuck DC statehood in Puerto Rico statehood.
Should we put two more stars on the American fut
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Their fee is free unless they win. Well. It's been
a couple generations since the United States added a star
to its flag. We've had fifty states. Now going back,
I guess my, in my entire lifetime, we've been fifty.

(39:36):
I guess sudden the oldest generation that can say that,
because of course, we added states in Hawaii and Alaska.
Before that, there's been two potential new states that have
been sort of on and off again. One is for
the District of Columbia and one is Puerto Rico. Just
to give a summary, there's over four according to the

(39:58):
last census, over four million Americans who live in a
territory or a district that does not have any state representation,
and four basically four of those four million reside in
either Puerto Rico in DC. To break it down further,
Puerto Rico with a population twenty twenty four EPs of

(40:19):
three point two million. If it were a state, it
would essentially be approximately the size of Iowa and Utah
population wise, which means at least four members of Congress
a full anywhere, depending on the estimate you use, anywhere
from eighteen to twenty states have less population than Puerto Rico.

(40:39):
As for the District of Columbia, there are two states
with less population, Yoming and Vermont. So now, if you're
asking about the Pacific Islands, I did do those numbers
as well. Combined you're looking at about three hundred and
fifty thousand, so not even quite one congressional district Quam
Guam at over one hundred fifty thousand, and the US

(41:00):
Virgin Islands, which I've got an idea on this that
I will will I will put further, has about eighty
seven thousand American Simona with a fifty little under fifty thousand,
then the Northern Mariana Islands under fifty thousand. So if
you took basically, it's about two hundred and fifty thousand
Americans in Pacific Island territories, and with the eighty with

(41:24):
the nearly one hundred thousand in the US Virgin Island
to throw that in with Puerto Rico, you're looking at
three point three million. But that's the scenario. That's a
lot of people who don't have representation, who pay taxes
without representation, living in the DMV, which in this case
is not the division of Motor Vehicles, but when I
talk about the district Maryland and Virginia, that's what that

(41:46):
DMV stands for. I've spent a lot of time with
people who have had efforts to get statehood for DC.
There were moments it was close and not in Puerto Rico.
There's a sort of a three way divide, if you will,
when it comes to the statehood conversation. There are some
people that want full independence, there are some people that
want full statehood, and there are even others on the

(42:08):
island that still argue for essentially what we have so
far a commonwealth with the you know, with the American
umbrella citizenship. But that's about it. So joining me to
discuss the fight for Stato. These are two advocates for statehood,
both with Puerto Rico and DC, because I believe you're
not going to get one state. The only shot you

(42:29):
have it each has is probably working together two states
and give both parties the idea that they have something
to gain here. George las Garcia is the executive director
of the Puerto Rican Statehood Council and the shadow representative
from DC who is the elected to lobby for statehood.
Oya oh Olewa joins me. I will be using his

(42:52):
nickname of Oya for the rest of the time. Thank
you both for joining us. Oh yea, I hope you're
okay with that.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Absolutely, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
I want to give you. I want to give you
a shout out here because you and I have been
talking for some time about this issue. You've always been
looking for better ways to get more national coverage of this,
and I suggested, hey, why don't we why don't we
get somebody advocating for Puerto Rican statehood and let's have
you guys on together. And sure enough, Oh yeah, you
were my booker on this one. So thank you. Let

(43:24):
me start. Let me start with you, O, which is
about ten years ago. I thought, you know, maybe DC
statehood happens in my lifetime, and then, you know, and
then some roadblocks have been hit. How would you describe
the status? I just recently sat down with Mayor Bowser

(43:46):
and she, you know, fights she you know, the issue
of the National Guard was a reminder as she said, Hey,
if you don't like it, that's why you need to
advocate for statehood. Where would you how would you describe
where we are on the fight for statehood in the district.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, thank you for that question, Thank you for having me.
As you mentioned before, we had the opportunity to become
a state, whether it's having the Democrats control of the House,
Senate and the presidency. However, the fight for DZ state
was never really prioritized. And when I became the US
representative four or five years ago, the conversation about statehood

(44:26):
usually relied and ended at congressional.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Representation, which is critical for DC.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
However, since my election, we've seen things like our old
our bills being overturned by Congress, the National Guard not
being deployed on time on January sixth, even more recently,
the federal occupation of agents on the grounds of DC.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
So we're seeing people, you know, really activate behind the
idea of DC becoming a state.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
But definitely politically we're taking a step back because the
same dynamics that we may have enjoyed in two thousand
and eight isn't here in twenty twenty five. But because
of your platform, because of other people speaking, I believe
we are a getting closer and closer to DC state
would being an actual issue.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
George, walk me through where how's the state of Puerto
Rican statehood is? And if you have a pushback on
how I described the debate, I've always thought that one
of the challenges for Puerto Rican statehood is that the
fact that it isn't at clean there Really there aren't
two sides of the argument in Puerto Rico. There are
three sides to the argument.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Chuck for the opportunity.
The issue of Puerto Rico. Statehood is one that has
made a lot of progress in the past decades. As
you mentioned, on the island, political parties aren't necessarily aligned
along the republican and democratic political spectrum. They've mostly been

(45:47):
focused on where the political parties support the different status solutions.
So there's been a very small minority traditionally between two
and about six percent that supports full independence for Puerto Rico.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Smaller it's been that small.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
There has been a larger political party that has had
the control of the governorship and the legislature for a
lot of the twentieth century that supports either continuing as
a territory or improving that in some way. They call
it the commonwealth and use that term earlier, but the
reality is the Supreme Court Justice justices have decided in

(46:30):
a number of cases that ultimately, even though that's a
formal name of Puerto Rico Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, for
the purposes of the US Constitution, Puerto Rico is an
unincorporated territory, meaning that it belongs to the United States.

Speaker 5 (46:43):
It's a property the United States.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
But it isn't actually incorporated into the Union permanently, which
is one of the constitutional differences between Puerto Rico and Washington,
d C. Which is definitely incorporated on a permanent basis
into the Union.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's written into the Constitution. Right, DC's existence is written
into the Constitution.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Exactly exactly, So DC couldn't be made into a independent country.
They either become a state, they're retroceeded into another existing state,
or they stay as what they are.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
You know, right now, with Puerto Rico, we've got different options.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Right, We've got independence, which a majority of the island
residents have consistently opposed. We've got continuing to be a territory,
which means that you get treated unequally under federal laws
and programs, and you don't have a full participation in
the US Congress that makes the laws that you live under. Right,

(47:38):
so you get kind of this terrible treatment of you know,
unequal treatment under laws and then.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
No representation the body that makes those laws.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
And then we've got an added factor, which is that,
like DC, the Congress can actually govern.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Us at the local level.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
So all states across the Union, they've got the Tenth
Amendment where the state itself is a sovereign and it
reserves all the rights to the states and the people
that aren't explicitly granted to the federal government by the
Constitution in the case of Washington, d C. In Puerto Rico,
Congress can literally pass local laws that govern us, and

(48:17):
in the case of Puerto Rico, they've done so.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
And what that has done, most recently is.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
Mean that we have a federal oversight board that is
essentially ruling Puerto Rico over and above the decisions of
our elected officials. And what this has done is it
has pushed the residents on the island to recognize the
continuing under territory status isn't the best option, and an
over four different plubisites that have been held between twenty

(48:49):
twelve and today, voters have consistently rejected the current territory
status and favored statehood as the best option for Puerto
Rico's future.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
What's been the biggest number on that The.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Biggest number in support of statehood, the most recent one
was fifty eight percent, And that really just shows that,
you know, nearly two thirds of the residents on the
island supports statehood versus independence. Got like eleven percent.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, and it correct me if I'm wrong, So you
got a large majority like that, and there were three
choices on the ballot, not two.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
Correct, Yeah, and I'll explain the third choice. Right.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
So I mentioned independence, I mentioned statehood. There's a form
of independence called free association. And what this is is
a relationship the United States has with some of the
former Pacific Trust territories that are Palao, Federated States of Micronesia,
and the Marshall Islands. And they're basically independent countries. They've
got their own president, their own passport, their own constitution,

(49:51):
but the United States essentially.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
Protects them militarily.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
The United States uses them as a shield against the
potential influence of China in the Pacific, and in exchange,
they basically get some very limited federal support, but the
people there aren't United States citizens. And in Puerto Rico,
everyone born on the island since nineteen seventeen has been

(50:16):
a United States citizen. And I don't think anyone on
the island really wants to consider any possibility of having
us stripped of our United States citizenship because what they
would do is it would separate the island's residents from
the three point two million on the island from the
more than six million Puerto Ricans that lived stateside and

(50:37):
who wants that?

Speaker 1 (50:38):
No one? Oh yeah, I know. DC held one once
about ten years ago, a referendum. Do you think this
needs to be had again? Do you think these I've
always thought the referendums in Puerto Rico actually they were
pr efforts, right. It wasn't just about getting people on
the island to express themselves, reminding us on the mainland here, Hey,

(51:03):
there are some basically some people who are not getting
full constitutional rights that are American citizens. Do you think
DC should be holding referendums more often on this issue?

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Well, while referendum would bring this issue to the masses,
similar to what pert Rico has been doing, we have
seen on a regular basis people walking around talking about DC,
stand going on the news. When it came to the
recent occupation where we had National Guard members in DC,
we have a record high or straight gays or the

(51:35):
CNNs and the msnbcs. We're talking about DC Staylor. So
I think it's really important for us to keep that energy.
But I do also believe that we also had to
go to other states. You know a lot of people
all across this country. When I go to the Utahs,
when I go.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
To Colorado's they don't understand what's going on in DC,
and they think that the district is just the White House,
it's just Congress, it's just the statue shoes, but not
the seven hundred thousand Americas living in DC. So, yes,
the referendum will help, but we also have other means
to get the message forward. As the child represented for
the past four years, I'm not only interacted with people

(52:12):
across the country.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
We also engage with state legislators. We introduced a DC
statehood resolution in West Virginia. We contacted people in Utah.
We went to other states, especially red states, to get
people on record to show that they support DC stately
and as an a media impact. Because today's state legislator
it's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Tomorrow's congressional candidate, and we can get people to start
becoming fans and champions of DDC Stale before going into office,
we in DC have a much better bet of getting
that voting passage in the House, getting that.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Majority in the Senate, and hopefully getting a president that
understands that this is not just a Parson issue, this
is an American rights issue. I mean, we fought a
war over tax station with our representation.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
We're still seeing that happening today, and just can binding
the elements of this country with the things that's happening.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Today would be really really important, like being vocal about
the occupation and not calling it a search, you know,
use the words that really mattered, that really engaged to
ball across this country to really understand that, especially in
today's time, DC residents are so vulnerable compared to other areas.
We see Brandon Scott talking tough, we see we see

(53:27):
Brandon Johnson Chicago talking tough, we see Gavin Newsoen talking tough.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
But our mayor in certain ways it's compromised because we're
not a state.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
And that's what she'll say. I mean, I think she'd
fight more if it wouldn't maybe wreck home rule completely.
I mean, she was in a real box here because
a Republican House might have stripped home rule from DC.
They tried to.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
There's actually the Bowser Act in the House and it's
said that will literally strip away our only way to
elect our mayor, the only way to elect our council
attorney generals under attack, and we're seeing marches in the
street of d C. We just passed the no King's Rally,
but a lot of us in office are afraid to
speak on the same way because we're so compromised by

(54:12):
not being a state.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Let me play a little Devil's advocate here. I'm not
saying I'm advocating this, but this has been I've been
here thirty five years and one of the alternative. You know,
just like with with there's sort of a third way
in Puerto Rico that some people have wanted to talk about,
there's a third way in d C, which is what
if d C became part of Maryland? What say you?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, that's the terms called retro session. You know, Virginia
to the way parts of DC in the past.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Was I live in the I live in the piece
of I always say, I live in Arlington. I tell
people where's Arlington? I said. If you look at a
map of d C and you see the missing square,
we're the missing square.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
You are in old DC, My friends, you're swim back over. No.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
I That's why I'm old. The see I'm here. I'm here,
trust me.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
But for many reasons, culturally, financially and politically, you know,
d C doesn't want to be part of Maryland. And
Maryland sorts thought doesn't want us, you know.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
Yeah, when it comes to our culture, Baltimore fights it.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
There's no doubt right there, the dominant culture and city.
I get that, and they don't, you know, because if
d C became part of Maryland, the center of gravity
would all change in that state. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Right, So we want to be disagressives. We don't want
to fight the fight. We don't want to run from
them by. We want to make sure the treet like
everybody else.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Nothing better than Maryland, Virginia, Ohioans want to be treated
the same exactly.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
George, let me throw up a one wrinkle by you
that I've always found a bit I've just been curious about.
Why shouldn't the Virgin Islands be part of the the
Puerto Rico fight for d C statehood? A should be

(55:57):
first state of not d C state. Why shouldn't Why
shouldn't the Virgin Islands sort of almost the same way
way of the Hawaiian Islands as a state, you know,
is because it's the Virgin Island population is too small
to be a state on its own. Is that is
there any way that that would be of help? Do
you think to your ability to lobby for state.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
Well, Chuck, the reality is that the US Virgin Islands
was acquired at a different time by the United States.
They were acquired from Denmark and purchased I believe it
was around nineteen seventeen. Puerto Rico was acquired in Spanish
a micrant Ward eighteen ninety eight. The culture and the

(56:40):
language is different. US Virgin Islands are predominantly African American
roots and speak predominantly English. There's a lot of intermixing,
particularly on Saint Croix, with people from Puerto Rico, particularly
from the municipality of Veakis, which is right next to

(57:02):
the US Virgin Islands. So there are some strong connections there.
But I definitely think that both territories see their identities
as unique and distinct and separate. I don't think that
there has been any serious discussion, either in Puerto Rico
or in the US Virgin Islands of having the two
territories combined under statehood. However, you know, if you ask me,

(57:28):
if tomorrow Congress says we'll give you statehood if you
add the US v I on.

Speaker 6 (57:34):
As part of spate, I'd be like, I'll take it,
you know, and you know, we'll we'll add them on
and we'll treat them with respect, and you know they'll
be The question is informed consent and consent of the government.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
Is that something that the people in USB I would want?
And I don't know.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
You know, they've been arguing and trying to figure out
if they can even establish a local constitution now for
several decades, so you know that. I think it's really
what's at the heart of it. We can't just talk
about putting together jurisdictions. We had to go back to
America's founding value, which is government by consent of the government,
and that requires asking the people of those jurisdictions what

(58:13):
is that they want.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
So let's go to strategy here. I've always believed, you know,
if you look at various statehood expansions, it was never
because it was a good idea to have statehood. It
was there were always political power considerations in the moment.
You know, I always remind people, you know, why South
Dakota's a state because Republicans wanted another pair of senators,

(58:44):
so they decided to break up the Dakota. There's no
other reason there's two Dakotas. But it was they wanted
they this was during the fight, you know, the North
lout of state, the South Laida state, and they were
going to be all these back and forth. So you know,
this is this stuff gets more arbitrary than people realize.
The Dakotas is a perfect example. Their perception of DC

(59:06):
is that it would be two more Democratic senators, which
is why Republicans try to block it. I think it's
pretty clear given the politics of Puerto Rico, we're is
you can't you can't assume anything that it is automatically
gonna be one way or the other. You've got people
like Rick Scott and Marco Rubio, who for years as
Florida senators have treated Puerto Rico as sort of, hey,

(59:27):
you know, we've got a lot of Puerto Rico, Puerto
Rican citis, people of Puerto Rican descent living in Florida.
You know, we should help Puerto Rico. And so I've
always thought that the two either coming together or neither
one gets statehood.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
Do you buy that, you know, personally, I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
I think that DC and Puerto Rico have parallel issues
in the sense that they are both jurisdictions where you
have United States citizens that lack full voting rights and
lack full civil rights in the federal government that they
live under. And I think that that needs to be addressed.

(01:00:08):
But the reality is that we're also coming from different
constitutional situations, and we're also coming from different political situations,
and I think that therefore, kind of conflating the two
issues and bringing trying to address them both together is challenging.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
And in the case of Puerto Rico, we are in
a similar circumstance to where Alaska and Hawaii were before
their admission in nineteen fifty nine, where we were US
territories that have voted for admission into statehood. And you know,
Congress has the power to admit us. There's no constitutional

(01:00:48):
constraints to that. The only thing that Congress needs to
do is to pass a law a bill in the
House and in the Senate and have the President sign it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Right in the case of theos made it for there's
no need for some extra hurdle.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Yeah, it's just the Cape Act of Congress, exactly simple
Act of Congress. Right in the case of Washington, d C.
It can be admitted in the same way. But there
is the issue of how do you deal with the
territoriality of Washington, d C. Versus the seat of government, right,

(01:01:23):
and that is a constitutional question that needs to be addressed.
And it is also possible that, you know, in response
to the twenty third Amendment, another amendment to the Constitution
may need to be passed. And that really is quite
different from the you know, process of admitting Puerto Rico
as a state. I know that, and and fully respect

(01:01:45):
all the different ideas for how that can be done,
but I'm just saying it's a different track procedurally.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Oh, I address that because I've seen so. I know it.
When this got a little bit attraction when it passed
the House about a decade to go, we had, you know,
there was I remember, I think some people had some
maps that in order to essentially make sure this wasn't
you know, that you weren't violating the constitution. The District

(01:02:13):
of Columbia would still exist, the federal district would simply
shrink down to I want to say, you know, for
those thinking of the map out loud, think I guess
between Pennsylvania Avenue and the river essentially, but but maybe
you can give me some more details on that. O. Yes,
you both are one.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Hundred percent right. Under the Constitution, a new state of Columbia,
which you know, our own version of the new DC
would look like. We would basically shrink the US capital
to the Federal encrep think the Congresses, think the White House,
Supreme Court, in the monuments. Outside of that would be
the new state of Columbia.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Now, while my friend right here is one hundred percent right,
there are two different tracks for Puerto Rico and DC
becoming state. When it comes to the political reality of it,
states are added by the duo. There is no party
will allow one state to come in and potentially wreck
the uneven balance of power. Now, when Hawaii in Alaska
were admitted as into the Union, Hawaii was seen as

(01:03:14):
a Republican state and Alaska was seen as the liberal state.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Now in due time, they flipped.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Now, unfortunately today's Republican Party they know they can't get
new people to join their party, so instead they just
take away people's voting rights and try to retract and
restrict the amount of votes available. So I don't think
the Republican Party is that interested in ln DC become
a state. I don't think they can win us over. However,
they do feel in my gad. I've talked to some

(01:03:42):
sanators and talk to some staffers in the House.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
The only way they'll really.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Start thinking about DC becoming a state is that they
can have a republic in Carowell two. I know in
the past they were willing to grant congressomen norm vote
if they added a seat in Utah. But like I
said before, you will be no democratic state at it
unless there's a Republican counterpart. And they're sure as that
will be here republicant states at it. This is a
democratic a democratic counterpart. Now that may not be fair,

(01:04:12):
but as a reporter Steve Basemith said, the only thing,
the only thing that's fair is where pigs are sold.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
So this is politics.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
We have to deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
And at the end of the day, in order for
DC become a state, the probably need to be that
counterbalancing acts to manage the local difference.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Look, I want to I'm gonna play moderator here. Look
I think I get it. I think I'm gonna just
be honest. Oh yeah, you need Puerto Rico as your
partner to get statehood. Puerto Rico, what's that? You need
a dance partner? And I think George is arguing, you know,
I could probably do this without a dance partner.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
And I see, I.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Sort of see where, George, where you're coming from on that,
Because there's been such a bipartisan history of both parties
going back and forth with the governor's office, uh, and
both parties successfully raising my off the island. Right, there
is a bit more of a bipartisan tradition in Puerto
Rico that that probably wouldn't spook party leaders from either

(01:05:09):
side of the aisle.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
Yeah, and you know, this is not something that is
theoretical to me.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
I've actually served governors that have been Republicans and Democrats.
I've I've seen support on this issue from both Democratic
and Republican House and Senate members. The issue has a
long history of bipartisan support when it comes to Puerto Rico.

(01:05:35):
But what I can also very much acknowledge is that,
you know, Puerto Rico is a question mark when it
comes to where things will pan out, you know, electorally
after admission as a state. Just like with Alaska and Hawaii,
what Oya mentioned is one hundred percent right. You know,

(01:05:58):
they were looking at Alaska's the democratic state in Hawaii
as the republican state, and you know, things ended up.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
Being the exact opposite.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
There's nothing that can guarantee that Puerto Rico, if it's
admitted into a state, will be a democratic state and
a republic or a republican state. Although right now, if
we look at the current makeup of the political leadership
in Puerto Rico, the Resident commission or Puerto Rico's non
voting member in the House, is a Democrat, but the

(01:06:29):
governor is a Republican, and the speaker in Puerto Rico's
houses a Republican. The majority of the representatives in Portrico's
legislature Republicans, and the leader in the Senate is a Republican,
and the majority of the senators in Puerto Rico are Republicans.
So it really does present a situation where, you know,

(01:06:51):
members looking at it from Washington need to actually look
at what's happening electorally on the island and also the
geographic reality of Puerto Rico. Much like any other state,
the urban areas tend to be significantly more liberal, and
if you look at the rest of Puerto Rico, the
rural areas tend to be significantly more conservative. And that's

(01:07:13):
a little bit of a challenge for DC because DC
is almost entirely an urban area right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
In If the population estimates it would be four congressional
seats for Puerto Rico roughly, how would that break up.
Would it be two in San Juan and then the
rest of the island would be broken up that way
or how?

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
It would depend on how the districting is done, which
is also something very interesting because as we're seeing right
now with the whole effort to redo districting nationwide, if
you had a Republican majority in Puerto Rico as we
have right now, decide to draw district maps that would
you know, end up favoring Republicans, Then you know, maybe
that could be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
The outcome, would crawl or something, But you.

Speaker 5 (01:07:58):
Know, the realities we don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
When we've had shadow delegations appointed and then elected to
a serve and represent Puerto Rico, we've had them fifty
to fifty split. They've been half Democrats and half Republicans,
And I think that ultimately that is actually what's most
representative of the island's population because we've never had the

(01:08:22):
chance to draw our own district maps and elect our
own centers representatives, So We just have to use the
data that we have up to nowt.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Look, in total, there are four point three million people
without full American citizens, without full rights that live in
these territories, either the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, or
any of these states and territories. Is there a middle
ground at all that would give everybody more rights without statehood?
Oh yeah, let me start with you. I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
I'll be quite honest, I don't think so. If the
question was just about vooting representation in Congress, then maybe
they will be a half measure that makes everybody happen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Well, you might get a member in the House, but
not in the Senate. Right right, the conversations that we're.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
Having, but that requires a constitutional amendment. We're back to that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
But give me one second.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
So when we had in twenty twenty five our local
budget slash and we had to almost get rid of
teachers and firefighters, when you're seeing the president send the
National Guard to patrol areas in our communities and send
ice to grab people based off how they look, the
only thing that protects DC residents is statehood. This is

(01:09:31):
no longer just how many votes we can count in Congress.
This is really an opportunity for DC residents to have
full ownership.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Over our lives on local governance. There is no half
measure to it. I know earlier my friend here said
we're far away from DC state.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Well within the last six years we passed the d
C State Admissions Act in the House.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
I don't say anything like that. Puerto Rico, we have
more than forty centers co sponds from the bill to
make DC a state. I don't know we're aut Puerto Rico.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
So I do believe there is a pathway ward for
DC residents to become residents of the state.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
I think we have to push forard on that because
it means so much more than just count of bost
of Congress.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
George, the same question to you, do you think there's
a is there some half measure that gives more rights
to whether you live in Guam, Puerto Rico, or DC.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
So you know, I think with the smaller territories in
the Pacific and the US Virgin Islands, there is a
separate question than the one that we have for Washington,
d C. And for Puerto Rico, just because of the
population size, right, and the fact that in none of
those territories, they've actually expressed themselves by votes that they

(01:10:43):
want to end their territorial status and that they want state.
One thing that is one hundred percent in alignment between
DC and Puerto Rico is that in both places you've
had voters express their consent to ending the territorial status
in the case of Puerto Rico and the seat of
government status in the case of DC, and you know,

(01:11:04):
express their desire for statehood. The half measures don't work,
and I'll tell you why. In the case of Puerto Rico,
you can get additional federal funding and maybe treated you know,
equally in certain federal programs, but the territorial clause allows
any future Congress to claw that back at any point.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
So even if you can.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
Get like full medicaid parity or full parity nutritional assistance
or whatever else that we don't have unequal right now,
any future Congress can say, no, we're taking it away,
and that you can't build an economy that's sustainable.

Speaker 5 (01:11:40):
Off of that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
And then the other piece is that ultimately, if every
single day the Congress and the federal government are passing
laws and regulations that apply to the territory and Puerto
Rico doesn't have representation that's equal in the House and
zero presentation in the Senate, and doesn't have any representation

(01:12:02):
in the Electoral College, Then how can we expect to
have oversight over the federal agencies that apply these laws
and policies, And how can we expect the interests and
the goals and aspirations of the US citizens of Puerto
Rico to be taken into account in the legislative process.

Speaker 5 (01:12:20):
You can't and any half.

Speaker 4 (01:12:22):
Measures to try to give Puerto Rico, you know, and
a representative in the House, or you know, a single
representative that can vote. That would require constitutional honment. That's
harder than passing statehood. Right, It's easier to pass a
statehood admission bill than it is to pass an amendment
to give Puerto Rico one voting representative in the House,

(01:12:43):
and that single vote would not compensate the island for
the representational gap and the demographic democratic deficit that currently exists.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
The Congressional Black Caucus has been a huge advocate of
DC statehood, and it may explain why a bill got
on the floor of the House and did get passed.
What has been the how would you explain why there
hasn't been a similar effort for Puerto Rico.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
Well, you know, the reality is that we have had
two bills past the House, one in twenty ten and
the most recent one in twenty twenty two. The last
one in twenty twenty two, it's called the Puerto Rico
Status Act, passed with a bipartisan majority that included unanimous
Democratic support in the House and sixteen Republican votes, which is,

(01:13:36):
you know, quite impressive given this overall level of polarization
that we see in American politics nowadays. The bill had
at that point a statement of administration policy from then
President Biden, and in the following session of Congress, we
did have that bill reintroduced because the US Senate just

(01:13:58):
didn't have enough time to When you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Say last status what what is? What specifically would that bill?
Dude put it? Basically that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
Congress has a responsibility and Puerto Rico's colonial territory status
and offers voters UH single vote between the three non
territorial options of statehood, UH independence and independence.

Speaker 5 (01:14:24):
With free association, which is this bilateral Marshal Marshall Island idea.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
Yeah, And what ended up happening is the Senate didn't
pass that, uh, but it was reintroduced in the following
session and we had twenty seven senators supported, all of
them Democrats.

Speaker 5 (01:14:42):
Uh no Rick Scott, no Rick Scott, and no Marco Ruvio.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
However, since then, we have had at least one Republican
senator express his support for Puerto Rico's statehood and uh
that is the the Senator from Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullen,
which is also very interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:15:01):
Because he's just the President's here exactly right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Yeah, So it does reflect the continued bipartisan nature of
the Puerto Rico.

Speaker 5 (01:15:12):
Statehood push.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
But what ended up happening in Puerto Rico is that
Congress didn't act, but locally, we decided, you know what,
we're going to continue sending the message from our citizenry.
So we took that same ballot that was designed in
the Puerto Rico Status Act and we put it up
to voters literally exactly as it was written and passed
by the House of Representatives. And that's what happened last November,

(01:15:36):
and fifty eight percent of voters supported statehood for Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
And this was the strongest version of independence that's ever
been on the Pallette, meaning the independence with essentially protection
from the United States, and the fact that that couldn't
get the number that it got, I.

Speaker 4 (01:15:54):
Think, yeah, so so independence just beer independence got like
just under twelve percent, eleven point eight free association, which
is a form of independence that in that case was included,
even continued US citizenship after you know, being made a
sovereign country, right, which I ultimately don't think that Congress

(01:16:18):
would pass it in that way, but you know, it
was a really nice offer that only got twenty nine percent,
and you ended up with fifty eight percent supporting you know,
full statehood, and that really shows that the majority of
people in Puerto Rico don't want to continue under the
current territory status and they want statehood.

Speaker 5 (01:16:39):
And now it's it's up to Congress act. But as
Aye said, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
Not just Congress, it's up to the American people across
all of the states to say, we need to end
a circumstance where we have nearly four million fellow American
citizens that are being denied their full rights, and we
need to have an active conversation about how we offer
a full enfranchisement and full democratic rights uh to the

(01:17:06):
citizens of Puerto Rico, of DC, and even of the
other territories. And there may be different solutions for each one,
but that fundamental principle, that's a debate that has to
happen for America as a whole.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
I'm just curious. You know, Oya was talking about how
he's been going to other states trying to get resolutions passed.
Have you tried that? And I was just in Orlando
past I was just gonna say, let's Florida, New York, right,
if you had a Governor DeSantis at a Governor Hocal
signing the same resolution, that'd be pretty good, a pretty good, uh,

(01:17:50):
piece of marketing material for you with.

Speaker 5 (01:17:52):
And and and we're working on that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
There is a state side advocacy movement that supports statehood
for Puerto Rico. We've been working on that in the
Statehood Council for many years. There's also been another effort
called the Extended Congressional Delegation that's been working on it
for the past few years. And there's literally, you know,
tens of thousands of US citizens from across the country

(01:18:16):
that support statehood for Puerto Rico. And you know, also
national polling has shown this. You know, I think the
Gallup polls have shown for decades that over you know,
sixty percent of Americans support statehood for Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
I want to get before I let you both go,
I want to get to the financial consequences of a
lack of statehood. You hinted at it a bit, George, Oh, yeah,
you were talking. We were talking a bit more about
obviously control of the budget, right, some of that home
rule decisions. But is there a you know, do you
get less Medicaid reimbursements in DC because of the status.

(01:18:54):
What do you can you put a dollar figure on
what you think statehood costs the district financially?

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
We lose millions, if not billions of dollars by not
being a state. Years ago when we were battling the
pandemic together and they passed legislation that will provide billions
of dollars to each day the combat the COVID pandemic
d C was regulated to becoming a territory. It's released.
We lost about half a million, half a billion dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
So did Wyoming get more money?

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
Wyoming got more, Maryland got more, Virginia.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Got less people, Yeah, than the district. That's why sing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Absolutely and unlike Puerto Rico on other locations, we were
a landmocked.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
So the problems that Maryland was spilled into d C.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
And just to piggyback on a previous conversation, the things
I've done in other states were two tiered. It wasn't
just enough to tell people that we deserved DC statehood.
We also made sure that folks understood how their lives
would improve by US becoming a state, us having voter representation.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
When I went to Boom County, West Virginia, where I
was the only black guy around, I didn't stop the
con station by DC resists mostly minority people deserve equal rights.
We talked about the issues that they cared about, letting
their water, not have.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
An access to employment, the coal industry just evaporating, and
talking about some of the things that I've experienced living
in commerce sights south East Washington, d C, bridge of
nose gaps.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
And understanding that a center from d C, voting representative
from d C can actually pass legislation that then center
mansion or capital wasn't passing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
And really engaging them in a way that they felt
that they gained from DC becoming a state. It helped
a lot, and I advised anybody who's buying for a
statehood to also make sure that we let them know
what their investment needs to folks living in other.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
Places outside of Puerto Rico or outside of DC.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
George put a dollar figure on it. You were talking
about when it comes to certain funding things and the
lack of equity. Oh, you just talked about it with
COVID funding. If Wyoming is getting more dollars for fewer
people than DC, that does seem unequal. What's give me
a few examples in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
In the case of Puerto Rico, it is definitely very
explicit that Puerto Rico receives unequal treatment under federal laws
and programs. And this not only impacts negatively the quality
of life of people on the island, but it actually
spurs people and pushes them to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Right. Oh, that's why they I mean, that's why they leave,
right Not usually?

Speaker 4 (01:21:26):
Yeah, And so the areas some of the main areas
where Porto Rico gets treated unequally most egregious is in
Medicare and Medicaid, so or elderly people don't get the
same level of financial support for their medical care. So
let's say if the average Medicare Medicare patient in the

(01:21:46):
States gets about fifteen thousand dollars per year given to
them for their healthcare coverage, in Puerto Rico's five, you know,
and that means that there's a huge reduction in the
amount of money going into our medical service providers, our hospitals,
our nurses, so all the basic care are you know,

(01:22:08):
lower income families in Medicaid get you know, less support
services too, and that has a massively negative impact on
the economy because ultimately, these.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
People are your workforce.

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
So if they're if they're more sick, if they're more
impacted by chronic illnesses that aren't being able to be treated.
Because with Puerto Rico, we don't have enough money in
our Medicaid system to have long term care access.

Speaker 5 (01:22:32):
That's a huge problem for.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
Our economy and our society, and it also impacts the
local budget. Portugal gets different treatment under nutritional assistance. So
we have one of the highest child poverty rates in
the entire United States, and and that's devastating. You're talking about,
you know, money that is not coming in to support
children in their critical moments of physiological development, and that

(01:22:58):
impacts educational outcomes, that impacts long term outcomes in terms
of their socioeconomic mobility because you know, you just didn't
get the support at the critical moments when when you
needed it. So these deficiencies and lack of equality amount
to tens of billions of dollars in less money that's

(01:23:20):
flowing through the economy in Puerto Rico every single year,
and as a result, the overall quality of life on
the island is lower, which means more people leave, and
then that creates a negative spiral that we're in. The
more people leave, the more consumer demand goes down. The
more consumer demand goes down, the more businesses have to shutter,
the more your tax base gets reduced, the wors your

(01:23:45):
fiscal circumstance, you know, the higher the share of per
capita debt for the debt that you already have in
your jurisdiction. But you know, I think one key point
that made that I would like to also reiterate. You know,
a lot of people's stateside have this misconception that Puerto
Rico is just a jurisdiction that takes from the federal government,

(01:24:08):
and that just is not true. Puerto Rico actually pays
more in federal taxes than at least three states in
the nation, even though in Puerto Rico, local residents do
not pay federal income taxes on their income that they
derive from the island. And the other piece is that
in Puerto Rico we have about seventy billion dollars worth

(01:24:29):
of annual interstate commerce between the island and the States.
So Puerto Rico actually helps to generate profits and jobs
for companies stateside that are employing people and that are
making an economic difference in Florida, in New York, in Texas,
you know, throughout the entire country. Because guess what, for example,

(01:24:51):
in Puerto Rico we import you know, I think it's
over eighty eighty five percent of the you know, fresh
fruit products.

Speaker 5 (01:24:58):
Most of that's coming from the States. Most of that
is being farmed state side.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
So if we grow the pie by giving Puerto Rico
the quality that it needs to have an equal playing field,
what we see is the same thing we saw with
Alaskan Hawaii, which is a process of economic integration where
the territories grew economically in a very significant way and
they ended up helping the other states because then those

(01:25:26):
states had more of a market to sell their products
and services to, and we grow the pie of the
American economy as a whole.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Look, I can confess that I know what happens to
DC is that people leave because of the lack of representation,
and so I know the tax base would be stronger
in DC had they had statehood. You know, people like
myself might not have left. The others might not have left.
I'm curious.

Speaker 5 (01:25:53):
I'm a former DC resident myself. By the way, I
now live in Virginia.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
So no, you sit there and you you know it
the unfairness, unfair tree. But of DC, everybody starts. You know,
at the end of the day, you worry about yourself, right,
bottom line, everybody does. Last question for both of you.
Oh yeah, I'll start with you, which is are there
businesses that won't relocate to d C because of the
lack of statehood? And is that a maybe? Is there

(01:26:19):
a way to fire up the business world to support
something like this as well? I just think about other
ways to create more support outside of traditional political lines.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
Absolutely. I mean, right now there is a recession in DC.
We are the highest unemployment because of the massive cuts.
Whether it's Elon must doge or Trump's continue planning to
fire more federal workers during the shutdown. D C residents
are and need of a new industry.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
And one industry that comes to mind us really, obviously,
maybe because I'm a Nigerian American, is the international development scene.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
You go to New York, you go.

Speaker 3 (01:27:02):
To Manhattan, you see you and the seth you see
the un you even see them the Millennium Hotel on
the Manhattan Island. And imagine if DC had that scene.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Given our lack of statehood, given our political stagnation, the
fact that because we're not a state, we don't have governors,
we don't have a thousand different things could run for
Like if you're in Virginia or man we only have
looks like four or five seats.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
It makes it much harder for us to create those
new industries.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Whereas all we leaned on was the government.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
All we leaned on was contractors and sings like that.
So when Trump kind of sweeps them away where it
can't just left but naked outside, it's tough.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
To diversify your economy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Absolutely, I think something we should do is bring in
those NGOs, those things that we see in other areas
because DC can be the home of that, but lack
we stayhead. We have seen how hard it is to
do the best and bring in and recruit businesses and
take a chance on the niches capital.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
George, I assume there's business because you talk about that
specific law that if you earn money on the island
you supposedly don't get to pay taxes on which feels
like more like a loophole for an accountant than it
is like a pragmatic approach to building a business. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:14):
So, you know, the issue with Puerto Rico's economic development
model since the nineteen fifties and then accelerated more recently,
is that a lot of the economic development has been
industrialization by invitation based on tax exemption, right since Puerto
Rico is not subject to federal income taxes for income

(01:28:37):
derived on the island or federal corporate taxes for income
derived on the island for Unfortunately, that same model that
was done for the industrialization of Puerto Rico in the
nineteen fifties and sixties that led to a massive manufacturing
base on the island. We produce many of the top
ten pharmaceuticals for the United States. We do a ton

(01:29:01):
of pacemakers and other medical devices. So a lot of
people think about Puerto Rico. They think is like beaches
and rama. It's not just that we've got some really
amazing advanced manufacturing that's going on on the island.

Speaker 5 (01:29:13):
It's critical to meet America's national supply chain.

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
But if that development is all based on federal tax
loopholes that at any point future Congress can change, you
create a fragility in Puerto Rico's economic development model. And
that's exactly what happened with a provision of the IRS
tax Code called Section nine thirty six. It was phased
out from nineteen ninety six to two thousand and six,

(01:29:37):
and we did see a significant decline in manufacturing on
the island. With statehood, what you get is you get
more certainty around the possibility of investing in the jurisdiction
because you know what you're.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Going to get.

Speaker 4 (01:29:52):
You know that you're going to get equal treatment to
all the other states. You're not going to have a
circumstance where Congress, for example, extend the Medicaid funding for
a little while and then decides to drop it off afterwards,
or improves you in this area and then takes away
this tax break. The other thing that you get when
you have statehood is you have senators and representatives that

(01:30:14):
can fight, and they can advocate, and they can trade
their votes, and they can make sure that whenever a
bill passes, whether it's on transportation issues, environmental issues, labor issues,
education issues, the interests of your constituents in your jurisdiction
are taken into account. And right now we don't have that,

(01:30:34):
and that is a huge limiting factor for our economic development.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
Here's what I can tell you. Any American citizen living
in one of the fifty states, they if they left
one of those fifty states and realize what rights they
don't have living in the district in Puerto Rico, they'd
be angry. And what's interesting about this is that giving
STATA to DC and Puerto Rico wouldn't change anybody else's
life in any other of the fifty states. It can.

(01:31:01):
What is what would be the argument that there what hard?
I can't think of the argument of harm to the
other fifty states.

Speaker 5 (01:31:10):
No, I guess it'd be carving up go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Oh yeah, I've heard things like people want to see
only fifty stars in the flag, but don't know that fifty.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Yeah, that's ridiculous, but also an incentive. There are people
who enjoy being the fiftieth vogue, being the forty ninth folks.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
So even if so, somebody will enjoy being the fifty
second vote or the fifty third vote. What's wrong with that?
You know, I could do, man, there's fifty two cards
in a deck. We could have fifty two stars on
a flag. I want to bring you back to the
hell shot. You gotta come on me.

Speaker 7 (01:31:47):
Like me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
I mean, my issue is fifty one. That's harder to
divide up. Fifty two, that's you know, even number. We
know how to work that. But that's the yeah, I mean,
in all seriousness, you know, other than I guess, dividing
up the pie. But these are all American citizens already,
so they're already getting a smaller piece of the pie,
but they should be getting a fuller one.

Speaker 4 (01:32:11):
So way, it was transparent with regards to the issue
of political power, and you know, some people feeling threatened
by the potential admission of a new state. You know,
I'll be transparent with the issue of language and culture.
You know, there's some people who outright argue that if
Puerto Rico were admitted into the Union, you know, we'd
suddenly have you know, a whole bunch of US citizens

(01:32:31):
that speak Spanish. And to me, that argument is laughable because,
believe it or not, the United States has more Spanish
speakers as current United.

Speaker 5 (01:32:40):
States citizens than Puerto Rico does.

Speaker 4 (01:32:42):
Right, you know, there's forty million, you know, Hispanics in
the United States. Spanish is the second most spoken language in.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
The American I don't mean to interrupt, but how many
states were added in the in the nineteenth century where
a majority spoke German? Yeah, a majority spoke right, Like,
I mean this, this is not We did this all
the time in the nineteenth century.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
And there's many states to this day that have multiple
official languages. Why Alaska, Why Alaska and New Mexico some
of them even have them baked into their constitution, for
God's sakes. So if that hasn't been an issue for them,
why isn't an issue for us?

Speaker 5 (01:33:20):
Now? I think it's just another cheap excuse.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
Well, look, I think that there's no doubt, there's no
doubt that some people listening to this or watching this
will assume that identity is playing a bigger part of
this than any of us want to talk about and
it's hard to separate it out right. You just brought
up the language issue, George, Oh yeah, we know that.
There's others that you know, the having two black senators

(01:33:43):
and you just sat there going it kind of feels antiquated, right,
These arguments feel very early twentieth century at best. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:33:51):
Yeah, And there are things that America has to work
through if we're going to become a stronger, more democratic,
more inclusive country and a country that really abides by
its founding values of equal justice under the law and
government by consent of the government.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Uh. And I'll use the phrase more perfect union. That's right,
you got this would help us be a more perfect union.
The message that would be sent if we did have
two states that were majority minority in this country, it
would it would speak volumes around the world anyway. Oh yeah,
and George, you guys are terrific at this.

Speaker 5 (01:34:32):
It almost was a mini debate, is.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
But but it wasn't meant I mean, I really look,
i I'm the I'm the you know, the the faux
expert here of political what of the political side. So
I do believe ultimately, you know, you guys will live
together or die together on this, but we shall see.
Oh yeah, and George, good luck to both of you.
Appreciate it so much, all right, I hope you enjoyed

(01:35:05):
that conversation about DC statehood. Look, I'm fifty three years old.
We have not had a new state added to the
Union since the fifties, and I bet this is the longest.
I'm pretty sure. I'm like ninety percent sure. It's the
longest period we've ever gone without adding to the American

(01:35:29):
flag on that front. And again, four million people right
now do not have basic the same rights as the
rest of us. So I think this is more salient
and coming sooner than people realize. And it's one of

(01:35:50):
those things. When it happens, it's just suddenly going to happen.
There's going to be a long thing. I mean, both
both you know, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in the district,
they both held reference end them on this. They both
have indicated they want this, so it is. It is
one of those I do think when Republicans are convinced
that Puerto Rico is not going to be two Democratic

(01:36:10):
seats right away, that you will see and I do
believe this, You're not going to get one. You either
get both or none, which is why I thought it
was important to pair this conversation together. All right, let's
do a little last Chuck ask Chuck. First question comes

(01:36:30):
to George M Twin Cities Minnesota? Can you really be
from both? You know? Don't? Don't you have to pick one? George?
Maybe the next time you write in, let me know
what can you say twin Cities or are you know,
do you have a you know, do you split your
time between Minneapolis and Saint Paul? All Right, I'm just
being snark. Your question is, Hey, thanks for the live

(01:36:53):
election cast Tuesday night. I appreciate the effort you and
your team went to put it all together. Yeah, you
and me both, brother Jacob Fry I held on for
a third term in Minneapolis, fending off Omar Fatah. And
I'm seeing parallels with Zorn's challenge to Adams and Cuomo.
Curious if Zorn's political skill explains the different outcomes or
if the data suggests something more. Well, you know, it's
really interesting looking at the New York race. All Right,

(01:37:17):
First of all, I'm I'm gonna take a little victory
lap on the Minneapolis race because if you were watching
very closely, you know, I saw the ten point gap,
and I thought, well, that should in my limited experience
with the ranked choice voting environment that we've had over
the last decade or two in Alaska and Maine in particular,
but in a handful of other cities as well, I
think San Francisco does it, Burlington, Vermont does it. Obviously,

(01:37:40):
we now DC's doing. My home county here in Virginia
has moved to frank choice voting for Arlington County offices.
Is that? You know, Fatah had a deal with the
two of the other higher profile candidates. They were basically

(01:38:00):
going to leave Fry, you know, encouraging their supporters to
leave Fry off the ballot and just rank those three. Well,
it looks like the deal didn't work, or it certainly
didn't work well enough. But I uh, that was one
of those where I was like, oh, it looks I
think Fry is going to hold on here. I was.
I was on the minority of that opinion of our

(01:38:20):
group group last night, But that's all right. Hey, I
was also wrong about a few things too, So I'm
not gonna be totally be totally obnoxious in that victory lap,
But it's fascinating to watch the spin with New York City.
So we got just over fifty percent. Is it a

(01:38:41):
huge win? Or did he luck out from having an
extraordinary flawed opponent who we got to run against twice? Right?
You know, Cuomo was if you could have if you
want to run an outsider race and you want to
run against the establishment, and you said, give me an
opponent who oozes establishment but nobody likes, and you asked

(01:39:09):
chat GPT to come up with somebody, they would have said, hey,
let me introduce you to former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
So I find myself wondering. I was another thing that
surprised me on Tuesday night. Uh, and something that I
was wrong about a week ago. I think I hinted here.
I said, you know, you know, why do I think

(01:39:30):
you know, why do I think that Cuomo could collapse
here because of where he was in the ballot and
that maybe that Curtis Sliweb or was he going to overperform? Well,
then a bunch of stuff happened, right, All this late
money came in for Cuomo. Bloomberg came in with the
late endorsement. He spent money on Cuomo's behalf. Trump comes
in with the late endorsement, and I do think despite

(01:39:52):
what some of the voters said to our uh to
our on the ground correspondence for our election night special
the news Girl, Mabel and Rent, despite what was said,
oh no, Trump doesn't tell me what to do. It's
hard not to conclude because, first of all, Republican voters
traditionally vote on election day more often, because part of

(01:40:14):
it is Trump is almost conditioned to his base voters.
You know, you should vote an election day, vote an
election day, and so he has more election day voters.
So that last minute endorsement I think mattered. So you know,
Staten Island goes dramatically for Cuomo. And you see Slie
was just support just collapse as it became a anti

(01:40:34):
So I look at the Mamdani race and it was
essentially I looked at it as it turned into almost
like a judicial retention race in Pennsylvania, up or down
in Mamdani. Right, Cuomo was simply a vehicle for those
that said no to Mamdanni. Right, people weren't voting for Cuomo,

(01:40:55):
they were simply voting against Mamdanni. Cuomo got forty one percent.
I don't buy that there was many positive Cuomo voters.
You know, let's assume half of those folks were positive.
You know, that means about half his support was just
simply anti Mom Donnie. Would and this is an interesting

(01:41:22):
little I don't know what the answer is, but would
a let's say the police commissioner had been on the ballot,
would Mom Donnie have won? So was Mom Donnie's fifty
point six and impressive showing with a massive turnout or
did the massive turnout happen because it drove some of

(01:41:43):
his vote, but it also drove some of the anti
Mom Donnie vote. I think that's something that I would
like almost a bit more. I want more data on
this one. I'd like a little bit more after action report.
I'd like a post election survey here on this because
it is notable that Mikey Cheryl outperformed Harris in New Jersey,

(01:42:05):
Abigail Spamberger outperformed Harris in Virginia, Mam Donnie technically underperformed
Harris in New York City. Right now, granted, one of
his chief opponents was a well known member of a
prominent Democratic family. He was not on the ballot as
a d but obviously, you know, there was plenty of
of sort of more centrist Democrats that likely pick Cuomo.

(01:42:31):
So I really think if you want to believe that
the progressive movement is on the march, you see, you
know you're going to look for a spin that shows
Mam Donnie overperforming. I think he benefited from his opponents.
But you know what, So did AOC benefit from a
from the rescheduling of a primary and a unique period

(01:42:54):
and she won and beat an incumbent because hey, those
are the rules of the moment. She met the moment
and her primary opponent didn't didn't Is it true that
it was a quirky time in the election calendar that
it was the only time that New York had split
its federal primaries from its state primaries, So voters probably

(01:43:16):
weren't all aware that there were going to be two
different primary days in the same election year. Right, There
was a few quirks here or there that maybe, under
another circumstance, AOC never wins a primary for the US
Congress under differently, And maybe if Akim Jeffreys and Chuck
Schumer weren't caught napping when Andrew Cuomo and decided he

(01:43:40):
wanted to be mayor, and they decided to do nothing
about it. They had recruited somebody a bit more viable
in sort of in that wing of the party. Maybe
Mam Donnie never catches fire, right, So obviously I'm not
gonna I kind of lean in that that Mam Donnie's
underperforming what a what a broad coalition Democrat could get

(01:44:04):
in New York City. But I also don't want to
deny that this guy is not He is an impressive
political athlete, you know. I love the phrase political athlete,
and I think this is an impressive athlete. I think
he hurt himself at the end by going by doing
the islamophobia speech. I understand he felt he got baited

(01:44:28):
into that conversation by by Cuomo's tactics in the last minute.
And I also empathize with the fact that I think
Mamdani sees sees himself as the guy that's got to
break the barrier to mainstream Muslim Americans into the political elite.
That you know, I look at the campaign of the

(01:44:50):
lieutenant of the new Lieutenant governor in Virginia, who's the
first ever Muslim woman to ever win statewide office anywhere
in the country and uh, how's mei Gazala? Uh is
her name? She never wanted a debate. She kept an
extraordinary low profile. She took what is conventional political consultant
advice on that many a Muslim candidate has been told

(01:45:15):
to do, which is, you need to downplay any connections
to Islam, you need to downplay even sort of called
you know, and mom Nannie didn't do that. He leaned in.
And I think that that is It's simultaneously he's seen
as as sort of the uh, the trailblazer for Muslim

(01:45:38):
Americans around the country running for office who are trying
to break break into being taken seriously and getting a
seat at the table in the in the in the
political power structure of the of America. And so he's
he's been willing to sort of take this stuff on.
I do think it it There are some voters that

(01:45:59):
they don't want to, you know, they want to put
blinders onto this. Okay, I don't know how is to
put it, but they just do. They'll support you if
you're downplaying it. Right. Look, African American candidates at first
were told this all the time. Don't lean into the
black community. You know, don't you know, back off Jewish
candidates back when they first started running for office, you know,

(01:46:19):
downplay your identity. Many a woman candidate in the early
days of women breaking the glass ceiling and executive offices,
same thing. So this is not a new thing. So
I say this and that. I think what Mom Donnie
is doing for future Muslim Americans running for office is
going to be of help to them. They will deal

(01:46:40):
with less Islamophobia, less questioning of whether they can win
win elections. But do I think it hurt him a
little bit at the end where he might have been
on his way to fifty three, fifty four to fifty five,
and then bringing that into the message because I think
there are a chunk of New York City voters who
like his message but don't want him to be an

(01:47:02):
international foreign policy expert, right that, no matter what his
views are about foreign policy, they don't want him to
use the platform of New York City mayor to express them.
I think there are some that want him to do that,
and that's going to be an interesting decision how he
chooses to go about that. How often does he use
his platform to talk about issues around the world versus

(01:47:28):
issues in the five boroughs. But I do think he's
slightly underperformed when you look at the broader democratic success
throughout the night that you could say and that, and again,
I look at it as I think New York City
became a mum dandi referendum, which may explain why Cuomo

(01:47:50):
got as close as he did with his forty one percent.
All right, that's what I love about this format. We
get to do some nuance, and I've been wanting it
is hard to have that conversation about the New York
City mayor's race without somebody wanting to cherry pick something
I said and weaponize it one way or the other.
This is why I prefer the format that we have here.

(01:48:11):
It's very hard to do that. I'm not saying someone
might not successfully try to cherry pick something I said
and claim I'm implying something that I'm not. But I
hope I conveyde it in what I was trying to
get at there. All right, next question comes from a
Weego New York. He goes, not just Long Island anyway
I'm from. It's Jeff from a Weego, New York. We'll

(01:48:31):
get there in a minute. He says, really looking forward
to the Orange heading to Coral Gables this weekend. Yes,
that is true. Hoping Mimmy gives us another chance to
see hercuse it up. Like you said with Steven Jelly out,
we'll get him next year, mode, I get it. But
a win over the you would definitely help fran Brown's
recruiting pitch. What's your take on at least Stephonic potentially
running for New York governor. New York City's mayoral race
is grabbing all the headlines, but upstate voters like me

(01:48:53):
are eager for a leader who prioritize it the whole state,
not just Long Island. Jeff from a Weego New York
look before Tuesday night, Jeff, I would have said, I
think Kathy Hokel is one of the more vulnerable Democratic
incumbents in the country and governors. Now, I'll tell you this,

(01:49:14):
I think the most difficult thing to do is to
house an incumbent governor in politics. The only thing more
difficult is to do in outstay sitting president. Now, when
you're seeking a third term, I think all bets are
off when it comes to governorships, But when you're seeking
a full second term, and in this case, that's kind
of what she's doing. I think she's going to be

(01:49:35):
tough to beat. Now A lot to me, A lot's
going to be if how far to the left does
hulkl have to run to survive her primary? Right, she's
going to get primary, and what is she I think
she ends up winning her primary. I don't buy that
she can get knocked off because you know, I'm old

(01:49:55):
enough to remember when Kathy Hochele was a surprise victor
in upstate New York in a special election for Congress.
So I think she's I think the fact that she's
not a New York City Democrat is a benefit to
her potentially. But before Tuesday night, I was on the
I think Stephanic's going to be very competitive here. I

(01:50:19):
given what we saw around the country. I am I am.
I am not at all bullish on any reply. I mean,
you know, bring back George Pataki, and I don't know
if if this could go well for Republicans in New York.
I think this is going to be tough. Again. I
go back to, you know, can Stephanic get enough distance

(01:50:39):
for Trump? Can she can she sort of pivot back
to who she was before Trump, right when she was
that sort of very more traditional New York Republican that was,
you know, a bit more moderate and cultural issues, more
on the fiscally conservative side, you know, very much the
George Patacki model or the Alda Motto model of Republicans

(01:51:03):
in New York. And I think that when she's not,
you know, it's funny about Stephanic. I think she does magataribly.
I don't think her pivot to Trump has been very credible.
I have gotten the sense that she's slowly trying to

(01:51:25):
get back to her old persona. I think she realized
that what sucking up to Trump gets her. She got
treated like garbage when it came to this appointment and
then non appointment to the UN. I think she feels
pretty pretty pretty put upon in some form or another,

(01:51:47):
you know, certainly marginalized unfairly. I think, you know, Trump
promised her her her leadership position back, and of course
Mike Johnson goes what leadership position? So that disappeared, right.
So again, I just think that it may be that
their political weather is just too blue for any Republican

(01:52:10):
to win. But a lot of this do I I
personally think Lawler would be a stronger candidate than Stephanic.
I think Lawler has has sort of cleaner uh sort
of slightly more independent Republican hands, meaning he's not considered
very trumpy and has as a bit more credibility on

(01:52:31):
not being you know, as trumpy as Stephanic, which is,
you know, you've got to sort of walk that line,
I think in order to get the base not to
reject you, but at the same time become appealing to
swing voters. So I think this primary, what what does
HOKL look like out of this primary? How far to
the left does she have to move? And you know

(01:52:52):
she's going to be feeling you know, she's going to
find herself very involved in New York City politics because
some of the things Mam Donnie would like to get
done and he's got to do through the state. So
it's going to means he's going to be putting pressure
on her. That could put pressure on her in a primary,
that could you know. So I think there's a lot
of state and city politics to play out before we

(01:53:15):
can truly assess how vulnerable HULKL could be in a
general election. But I will tell you this, if this
is the weather we're going to have in November twenty
twenty six. You know, I don't know if Michael Bloomberg
is a Republican again as the nominee for governor, would
be able to win in an environment like this. All right,

(01:53:44):
next question comes from Lincoln Cea out of Columbus, Ohio.
He says, Chuck, not only would I stay on a
thirteenth floor, my wife and I actually got married on
Friday the thirteenth. How about that? This is a throwback
to what I said my daughter. I don't think it's
ever going to stay in the thirteenth floor of any
hotel ever. Again, I'm a displaced to englander in the
land of the Ohio State buckeyesco Michigan, and as a

(01:54:07):
political junkie, I've always believed presidents should be judged by
the hindsight of history. Sometimes thirty, forty, even fifty years later,
well that's more about policy than norm breaking. I still
find myself sparring with folks convinced that the most recent
administration is either the best or the worst. Effor am
I onto something here best? Lincoln C. Columbus, OHI, I
love that your name is Lincoln. We're asking about presidents.

(01:54:30):
You're in a state capital named after a Spanish explorer. Anyway,
it's a very full circle here. Look, I don't I
think I was. I mean, let's just take Harry Truman.
The best example to defend your point of view here
is Harry Truman. Harry Truman was very unpopular when he

(01:54:52):
left office. One of the reasons Eisenhower couldn't get convinced
to run as a Democrat instead ran as a Republican.
In part, argue is because Truman was unpopular and he
was going to probably have a harder time. One of
the reasons Truman wanted Eisenhowers because he knew Democrats were
going to have a hard hard time winning the fifty
two election. But you know, a Truman, you know, and

(01:55:18):
you know it's funny. It does feel as if the
farther away we get from a president, the more their
foreign policy becomes their defining legacy more than it is
their domestic policy or there or you get this, right,
you get a foreign policy plus their political success or failure. Right,
that becomes so with Harry Truman, Right, there's this he

(01:55:40):
made tough He made a tough decision and a tough spot.
You know, he was. He showed some steely spine, and
he showed how you run against a Congress that's against
you in forty eight, right, you know. So he's got
both a political legacy that many a demokrat loves to
talk about historically, and he's got a form policy legacy

(01:56:04):
that people like Ronald Reagan helped restore Truman's place in
American history by because there was a long time, particularly Republicans,
you know, Truman was a was a punching bag for
Republicans in the fifties and sixties, and it was Reagan
that sort of started to refer to Truman more as

(01:56:26):
a as a as a president that you know, we
should be proud of and look up to. And it
really sort of how it you know, maybe it's how
he started to appeal to older, older Reagan that be
older Democrats that would later become quote unquote Reagan Democrats.
But the point is you throw that in there. Reagan
sort of revised Truman in a positive way. Then you

(01:56:49):
had the David McCullough biography that hit that really sort
of redefined and certainly put Truman in a better light.
So the point is is that Truman is one of
the great samples. Eisenhower is another one. His presidency, you know,
in the near term, was considered a little mah. I
certainly think that looking back, he had a it was

(01:57:13):
you got to you know, his presidency is is is
a bit underrated in hindsight, and I think now he's
starting to get his due. But I do think you
kind of I mean, here's the reality, what we're really
saying here. Let's say it this way. You don't really
know how good or bad a president was until the
president dies. Till that president dies and we get the

(01:57:37):
truth and you get people feeling like they can speak freely,
and you get access to archives and you start to
because sometimes you can't paint the full picture because we
don't have all the information. And then over time more
of that information comes out, right, more papers get revealed,
more letters, more family memoirs, things like that. So yes,

(01:57:59):
I mean, shoot, look, I'll be ja right, we've been where,
you know. I think the Vietnam legacy is still a
pretty big, fat demerit on his presidency, but his domestic
legacy is is starting to is seen in a more
positive light and is starting to overtake the Vietnam legacy

(01:58:20):
and putting him. Even Nixon has gone through ups and
downs of his perception over the years. You know, in
the nineties it started to weirdly improve, you know, over time.
Now I think it's gone downward. How about George W. Bush,
who were Donald Trump has both hurt his legacy and
helped his legacy. Right, So a Dick Cheney talk about

(01:58:42):
a guy who was viewed one way as vice president
and has been remembered in recent death another way. So
it is It's why I talk about I can't wait
to find out and I'll be dead and gone unfortunately,
but I can't wait to find out what people say
about this era fifty years from now, that's for sure.

(01:59:02):
All right, next question, Let's see where am I end
time here? So I'm going to make this the last question.
I'm a lifelong end D fan, but I have been
listening to your podcasts and found myself rooting and following you.
M thank you. Part of it is because you need
Miami succeed in order to make your loss Loip good
for the colleg football playoff domor you know, I see
you anyway. Sincere sympathies on the last game, I appreciate it.

(01:59:25):
I enjoy your take on current events in DC and
across the country in a growth most everything you and
your guests suggest very balanced. Michel and Meet the Press
recently moved from southern Indiana. Go I you to West Bend, Wisconsin.
Go back. Go and listen to your podcast the entire
eight hour drive. Well, if you're lucky enough, maybe it's
only one podcast parade hours, So I haven't totally roguified yet. Right.

(01:59:47):
That's awesome, and it helped me distract me from the
two cats and cages that never stopped owling. That's hilarious. Question.
What do you think Ronald Wagan would think about Trump?
And this comes from Sherry. It's Sherry. By the way,
you spell your name the same way my mother spells
her name. She is a Sherry. So that's a cchr.
I I don't see that very often. So hey, mom,

(02:00:07):
look there's another Sherry that spells her name the same way. Well,
if you ask Roger Stone what Ronald Reagan would have
would think of Trump, I think he would say that
Reagan sort of liked Trump, but you know, was been
mused by him a little bit. And you've got to

(02:00:28):
remember what Reagan's you know, interactions with Trump were pretty minimal.
It was it is. I have a great origin story
about Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan that I got from
Roger Stone, so I'll share it with you here. That's
why this is a perfect last question. So Roger Stone

(02:00:51):
is a young operative in seventy eight seventy nine, and
he is looking for he is working for Reagan's and
he's in charge of New York for Reagan. All right,
he's the New York and this isn't a primary. And
you know, at the time, it was thought they were
really trying to play catch up with George H. W. Bush,

(02:01:14):
who was a financial juggernaut. He had had a much
better fundraising network going into nineteen eighty arguably than Ronald
Reagan did. So Roger Stone needed a finance chair for
the New York Republicans for Reagan or New York for Reagan,
whatever they were going to call their organization. And so
obviously one of Reagan's big supporters was Roy Cohne. So

(02:01:41):
and you know, look, everybody you know, Roy Cohne was
very connected in Hollywood, Reagan being a Hollywood guy. So
that's how Cone got into the world of Reagan and
Nixon All and Cohne was always sort of part of
that wing, part of you know, wherever the Republican Party
was going. And so Roger Stone meets with Cone and
he tells him, hey, I need a finance director for Reagan.

(02:02:03):
And he says, you need Donald Trump. So but you
need a first meet with Fred Trump that was Donald's father.
So again, this is a story Roger Stone told me
this was for a book interview I did that I
ended up not using just full disclosure on that. So anyway,

(02:02:27):
so Stone, this is a very interesting story. Stone goes
to meet with Fred Trump and he walks into Fred
Trump's office and he sees all these photos on the wall. Right,
it's very much like Donald Trump. Donald Trump, you know,
wherever he is, any office he has has photos of
Donald Trump and other and famous people. And Fred Trump
was the same way. And at the time it was

(02:02:48):
famous New York City people and New York City politicians.
And Roger Stone said he walked into the office and
he'd look around and he saw all these pictures of
Fred Trump with all these New York City democrats. You know,
there was Fred Trump with a beam, there was Fred
Trump with you know, all these different longtime New York

(02:03:09):
Democrats doing why why am I here? He was looking
for a Republican finance director to support a Republican candidate
for president, right, And here he is, you carry like,
what's going on here? Right? So he asked him and
he says, mister Trump, you know I see all these
pictures with Democrats. And Fred Trump then opens his drawer again,

(02:03:35):
this is a Roger Stone story. So you know, I'll
let you decide the truth, truthiness level of it. But
I don't you know, you're when you interview somebody in person,
you sort of you feel like, you know, this is
the best I can do. And there's certainly enough. You know,
the the facts themselves are checkable, many of them, and

(02:03:59):
certainly over time, I think other parts of this story
certainly have proven to be true. So according to Stone,
Fred Trump opens a drawer and he pulls out a
voided check that he had written to the John Birch Society.

Speaker 3 (02:04:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:16):
Maybe it was one hundred thousand dollars. I think that's
what Stone said to me at the time. Maybe it'd
have been fifty thousands, who knows what the actual number was.
Some at the time a big number, and he's like,
you know, does this convince you that I'm one of
you at the time, And so from there, Fred Trump says, Okay,
I think I think Donald should do this. You know, essentially,

(02:04:38):
in order for Donald Trump to be involved, you had
to get Fred Trump's permission. Fred clears it, and Donald
Trump becomes the you know, helps helps raise money for
Donald Trump in New York essentially, but the relationship was
essentially that right though, the way any president has a
relationship with people who help raise money. Presidents you have

(02:05:00):
to remember to know their name. You don't always really
know them that well. You know, I think it's really
hard to know what Reagan would have thought of them.
I know what Nancy Reagan. I have a feeling I
know what Nancy Reagan would have thought him. I don't
think it would have thought much of them, and I
certainly don't think Jim Baker would have thought much of him.

(02:05:21):
You know, there was a part of Trump that was
that felt it was a little it was Reagan very
much is a guy who felt comfortable in a white tie,
and Donald Trump was sort of, oh, it's another way
to put it, new money. I'll just leave it at that.
I'll let you imply what that is. But I think

(02:05:42):
you know where I'm going here. So I don't want
to say it was oil and water, but I certainly,
you know, the character stuff I think would bother Reagan
a lot more than people understand do. I think that
there was a there.

Speaker 7 (02:05:58):
Maybe their belief in that somehow you sort of lean
in a little bit, you know, you steffen up, You
maybe push the envelope every now.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
And then in order to make a point. You know,
maybe you exert some power you may or may not have.
You make a threat that you're not really going to
carry through, but you go ahead and make the threat.
So certainly you might say there's some stylistic similarities that
Reagan might have been okay with. But I you know,

(02:06:35):
I think back to an anecdote in Jimmy Carter's book
on his Diaries, which I think is the greatest presidential
memoir I've ever read, because it was a die it
was done. It was his diaries, with then notes later
on his and one of them was how the relationship
Reagan and Carter actually had In seventy seven and seventy eight,

(02:06:58):
Carter knew Reagan was his like opponent in eighty we
were in the middle of the Panama Canal debate at
the time. Carter was going to do something. He said, Hey,
why don't we give Reagan a heads up so before
he spouts off, he at least knows what I'm going
to do. And that is what kind of like that's
that was sort of the cordiality that existed between the

(02:07:19):
two parties. And here was Reagan not even that there
was a a professional relationship between President Jimmy Carter and
the former governor of California who was his likely opponent.
But there was a sense that, you know, he ought
to be we ought to we know he's he's a
big advocate of not getting you know, of not letting
go of the canal. Let's let him know what I'm

(02:07:41):
doing here. So I really, you know, and maybe i'm
and I think we all do this with people that
are no longer alive. We'd like to think. I just
have a feeling Reagan wouldn't wouldn't be a big fan
of the Trump character, even if he didn't mind some
of the policies. All Right, that was a longer story

(02:08:02):
than I planned. So I'm going to do a I
apologize here because I don't like to go that long
unless you're on the eight hour drive with two howling cats.
Then I'm not going to apologize be helpful here. But
let's get in a little bit. It's homecoming weekend, Miami's
you know. Look, there's a part of me that says, Miami,
we should feel disrespected by the ESPN. The ESPN controlled

(02:08:25):
College Football Committee. Remember this is the ESPN Invitational, they own,
they control the college football playoff. So I don't accept
the premise that this is some sort of totally fair situation. Right,
the SEC is going to get every benefit of it out.
Notre Dame is going to get every benefited out. For
whatever reason, even though the ACC is in business with ESPN,

(02:08:48):
the ACC does not have a business partner that treats
them fairly. And why the ACC has not been tougher
on how ESPN mistreats their business partner they're in business together.
I think the ACC Commissioner is two week in challenging
the way ESPN this is the ACC mistreats it, treats

(02:09:14):
it like a second class business partner. Again, I don't
know why anybody would get into business with ESPN and
college football during this SEC period because ESPN has made
the decision we are not going to prioritize anything else
of the ACC. In fact, I learned a little nugget
in Dallas from a pretty well connected source about how

(02:09:35):
every week the Commissioner of the SEC, and I actually think,
you know, this is his job. I don't know why
the ACC commissioner is. Every week, the Commissioner of the
SEC lobbies ESPN to make sure Chris Fowler and Kirk
kerb Street are calling an SEC game, not an ACC
game or a Big twelve game. And anytime he gets

(02:09:55):
a whiff that they might go and make their and
send their premiere broadcast team to a game that does
not feature an SEC team, Greg sank throws a conniption fit,
and he's constantly putting pressure on ESPN that if you
want to be in business with the SEC, you have
to prioritize the SEC and screw your other business partners

(02:10:18):
in the ACC and Big twelve. So, again, very well
connected source on this that this happens almost weekly, that
Greg Sanke pressures ESPN executives constantly in trying to make
sure SEC games are treated differently in ACC. So my
point is, yes, I still have that chip on my shoulder.

(02:10:39):
And yes, there's no doubt in my mind that the
ESPN Invitational Committee went out of their way to totally
you know, I think mystery. There is no way Alabama
or nd get dropped from two to eighteen with two
loss and they're losing two out of three. That quickly
that said, Look, it's not as if Miami didn't know

(02:11:02):
what the uneven what the unfair rules were going to
be that you cannot get You cannot be in the
ACC and have two losses and expect to get in
the College Football Playoff. You can be in the SEC
and do that. You can be Notre Dame and do that.
You're not going to be allowed to do that in
the a SEC because they have arbitrary They have arbitrary
rules of how this works because Greg Shanky's going to
make a phone call and they don't want to deal
with it. So let's realize that that's the rules of

(02:11:25):
the game. And I understood that going in, which is
why I'm angrier at a football team not prepared to
win a game knowing that there that the season was
on the line. So look, I want Miami and win
every game. I hope they can get their heads together.
I think this is a huge test for this coaching staff.

(02:11:48):
If they can't finish the season and run the table here,
then you have to wonder if they've lost the team. Again,
there's not a single team they've played where they have
less talent, but there are plenty of teams that they've
played where they're getting out coached and out prepared. And
that's the problem, and that's it. I look, do I

(02:12:09):
think Stracuse with Steve Angelly would be giving Miami? I
would have me nervous, it would, I am, But I
have to tell you I would not. This is not
a week I would bet on either Syracuse. No outcome
would surprise me. If you told me Mimmy had to
sleep walk in one by ten because half the team's
just not that into it and they realized that the

(02:12:30):
goals of the season are over, that wouldn't surprise me.
Or or if Mimmy put up a sixty burger and
suddenly woke up and decided, hey, we're going to make
this really difficult for the ESPN executives when we're sitting
at ten and two and they've got to explain why
they're picking notre ed aim ahead of Miami for the

(02:12:50):
college football playoff. So, like I said, I certainly still
have a chip about all this in different ways. Look quick,
you know this is not the not the best college
football weekend, but I think there's a few it should
have been. Right LSU Alabama when the season started looked

(02:13:11):
like it was a big deal. But here's the games
that I'm I'm curious to see because I'm curious to
see if there's any any fight left in a handful
of teams. So Miami Syracuse is a classic one, right.
How engaged is Miami? Is this? I've told you this
has happened multiple seasons in a row where once once

(02:13:34):
the postseason goals are over, there seems to be a
collapse with the rest of the rest of the team.
Does that happen here? Or can Miami successfully win by
five or six touchdowns, which frankly they're favored to do.
How about Penn State? They gave a one half of
a fight to Ohio State. Well, they play Indiana this week.

(02:13:54):
This game's at Penn State. I think the new coach
ump is usually only worth only works after the first
week or two. Then I start to wonder our players
starting to think about what their value is in the portal.
I can tell you this is a better I am
not fading Indiana anymore. I'm out. I've lost too much

(02:14:16):
money betting against Indiana thinking that these points spreads are overpriced.
I'm out not touching it. Congratch Signetti. I've googled you.
You win, you cover, that's for sure. But does Penn
State have any life left? If they do? Maybe this
is you know, I still think Indiana is going to

(02:14:37):
have a one more scare in them, right. The Iowa
game turned out to be a huge scare BYU Texas
Tech is a huge game winner, is going to be
probably the favorite in the Big twelve losers likely out
right BUYU man, they are a only UVA has more
smoking mirrors than BYU. Right, But your record, you know,

(02:15:02):
as the great Bill Parcells said, your record is you
are what your record says you are. And there ain't
a no you know what that tells me? So really
well coached team, because they always uh they're prepared to
win no matter what situation they get put in. But
this is a tough road test. It's a much bigger
game for Texas Tech. A second loss and all you

(02:15:22):
know than than they're crying and they're in their nilber
the way Miami is. I'm not saying Ohio State's on
upset alert, but they're playing at Purdue. They've blown this
game before as a top five team. I'm not saying,

(02:15:46):
but this is a team produce shown some fight. They
stick around in games unlikely, but anyway, put it this way,
put it in your four box, especially if sin there's
you know, it's a big ten network game. It'll actually
be of your YouTube TV subscription. A and M in

(02:16:06):
Missouri is an elimination game. Missouri's at a four string quarterback.
This is probably even though it's ranked versus rank, this
is probably a flex a moment where A and M
gets to flex. They Probably the best game on the
board is Oregon and Iowa. I don't know if you've
been paying attention, but the Kirk Farrence's team there in

(02:16:29):
Iowa City, man, they you know, yes, they've got the
lost Indiana a game. They've given Indiana the toughest game
that they've faced. There is no tougher place to play
than than Kinnick Stadium there i This is you know,
losers out of the playoffs. This is probably a loser

(02:16:50):
goes home winner is you know, at this point, especially
if the ACC is only going to get one, that
means that Big ten might get four teams. You know,
who's the fourth team, who's the third team? Iowa a
win here, and they're suddenly making a play for that
third or fourth Big ten slot. So it's a big
game and I think the sneaky best game of the

(02:17:13):
weekend Auburn and Vanderbilt. Do you believe in the new
coach bump, the Hugh Freeze firing. It's it's actually done
quite well if you look at it through the spread.
I you know, if you wanted to pick vander you
can pick some knits at Vanderbilt. You know, their body

(02:17:35):
of work is great, but when you look under the hood,
it's not statistically the greatest on that front. If somebody's
gonna finally knock UVA off of its perch and give
them their first loss in the ACC, Wake Forest is
a pretty good candidate. Don't overlook that game. And then

(02:17:56):
the two others. They again, it's more on upset alert
than anything else. Does LSU have a have a relieve
that Brian Kelly has gone bump? Does Garrett us Meyer,
who clearly wasn't getting along with coach Brian Kelly. Does
he have the game of his life against Alabama. Here's
something that is true. Whenever Alabama's favored by double digits

(02:18:18):
in the when Calen Debor has been in charge, the
games turned into a pretty interesting game. And in fact,
Alabama's blown a couple of them. So that's a small
upset alert. And then Navy at Notre Dame. It seems
as if Navy always there was a time where it
didn't matter what Navy's record was, it was a given
that they'd make Notre Dame sweat you know, that they

(02:18:38):
would make it a one score game. I think after
the clunker that Notre Dame had last week against BC,
that they probably right the ship and they take care
of business here. But I enjoy me a good Navy
Notre Dame matchup, and I know a lot of a
lot of my midshipmen retirees also do too. Always fun

(02:19:03):
to see Navy play with the big boys and hang
with Notre Dame, and they've done it a lot throughout
this century. I think they even pulled an upset once. So,
like I said, no awesome games this weekend no games
of the year, which probably means at least two top
five teams lose. Right, Because it's always the weeks you
don't expect that college football delivers the kookie and the crazy.

(02:19:28):
So for those of you going to Miami or going
to any college football game, enjoy your weekend doing that.
And for some of you, I'll see you in Miami.
Go Kins.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Full Episode - A GREAT Night For Democrats + Democracy Denied: Inside the Push for D.C. & Puerto Rico Statehood