December 6, 2024 • 40 mins
Emily Chang meets AMD CEO Lisa Su on the heels of her tenth year anniversary as CEO. They discuss her career, the bets she’s making to compete in a fast paced technology race between Intel and Nvidia, her long view on China, and her passion for fast cars. Chang and Su visit the Formula 1 United States Grand Prix in Austin, Texas to meet Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team boss Toto Wolff and star driver Lewis Hamilton for a closer look at AMD’s technology inside the Mercedes cars.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Emily Chang and this is The Circuit. Finally, after
nearly two seasons of bringing you interviews with the top
leaders in tech in business, the Circuit is going to
be talking about circuits on an actual racing circuit. This
episode will take you to F one in Austin, but
first we start at the headquarters of one of the biggest.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Chip makers in the world.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
There's no shortage of drama when it comes to chip making.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Even when you're winning.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The game changes. Do you ever feel like you're running
a race that just never stops.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Of course, absolutely, that's exactly what we're doing. I'm running
like a different company every few years. Like the industry
is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
changing that fast. It's a fantastic race though.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
That's Lisa Sue, the CEO of Advanced micro Devices or AMD.
She's been at the driver's seat at the chip company
for ten years, engineering a strategy that transformed it from
and also ran into a formidable force in gaming, PCs
and the cloud, which rule just about everything around us.
It's one of the most ubiquitous and most consequential technologies
(01:05):
in the world, and it's Lisa Sue's obsession. Born in
Taiwan with three degrees from MIT, she takes a no
nonsense approach when it comes to innovation and the competition.
I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
I've heard you don't take from anyone who's.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Told you that somebody, But seriously, I've heard your toughest
nails and I'm sure you have to be How would
you describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, I like to win, if that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Sue's next great challenge is catching up to Nvidia, and
it's CEO Jensen Wang, who, by the way, is her
distant cousin. She's going head to head to deliver the
most advanced chips for an AI powered world. The question
is can she keep up? I met up with Sue
at AMD's campus and at the US Grand Prix in Austin,
and fun fact, Sue loves fast cars too. She happens
(01:56):
to collect porsches herself. AMD is also a sponsor of
the Mercedes F one team. We dive into her career,
the bets she's making to stay in the competition, and
her long view on the global race between China and
the United States on chip supremacy. Joining me now a
m d CEO and chair Lisa Sue. Hello, hello, thank
(02:18):
you so much for doing that.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So great to be in Austin.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That's where you live, it's where I live.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
How long have you been living in because you were
in Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Before, lived in Austin since let's see two thousand and seven,
So how long has that been. That's been a long time. Yeah, no,
I used to hear from New York.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I used to live in New York, okay, and that
was probably quite a culture shock.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yes, it's my second time in Texas though. Okay, so
I write after my PhD. I my first job was
at TI So I actually lived in Dallas for not
a long time.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But then didn't you go back to New York? Yes, yes, yes,
because Texas was Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Texas was tough, no offense.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But now it's your home. Now it's hold and it's
probably changed so much.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It is at Austin is a very nice city. I mean,
hopefully you'll get to see a little bit of Boston.
It's just it's really a great city. It's grown so
much in the last ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
How do you feel about Austin as a tech hub.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Now it's great, everyone's here and this notion of I
used to think I was just passing by Austin, so
I was going to live here for a few years
and then had my way to Silicon Valley. This is
sort of midpoint and now like I'm in Silicon Valley
a lot, but one doesn't need to live there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And what do you think about the fact that, like
the center of gravity is still in Silicon Valley and
the town is still in Silicon Valley, and you just
can't beat it anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
There are a lot of wonderful people in Silicon Valley
you can't beat just you know, you can walk into
the coffee shop and you know, meet someone for breakfast
and somebody else for lunch, So you can't beat that.
That being the case, we're just so global now. Yeah,
like everyone is everywhere, so I feel like I'm everywhere.
I don't actually, even though I live in Austin, I
don't feel like I live in Austin because I'm not
(04:01):
in Austin as much as I would like to be.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You've been CEO of AMD for ten years. You've been
working in the chip industry for decades. But I want
to go back to a moment. When did you first
hear that you were going to be CEO of AMD?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, it was probably maybe September twenty fourteen. Yeah, it's
one of those phone calls. You know, it's a phone
call you get from your Chairman of the board, Bruce Claughlin,
and he said, Lisa, can you talk. I'm like sure,
and he goes, it's time and I'm like time for what? Uh?
(04:39):
You know, I had just been COEO for about six
months or so, and you know, I was learning a
lot about AMD, a lot about the industry, particularly around PCs,
and that was sort of new to me when I
joined AMD. And uh, yeah, he said, you know, the
board has made a decision they would like you to
be the next CEO.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh I said, okay, Well how did that feel? It
was a tough time. I mean, AMD was training at
two dollars a share. One guy said it was deader
than dead.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What made you so was that guy?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
It was an AMD employee? What made you think you
could prove them wrong?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I think you have to maybe take a step back
and just you know a little bit about sort of
how I think about these things. You know, I've been
in the semiconductor industry for quite a while. At that
point in time, you know, let's call it a couple
of decades. There were so few places in the industry
where you could really work on bleeding edge technology, and
(05:39):
AMD was one of those places. So if you ask
why did I join AMD? I joined AMD because I'm like, look,
I like working on high performance things and I think
I can make a difference at this company. So the
opportunity to be CEO of AMD, it was truly like
a dream come true. It's like, wow, okay, like you
think that maybe you can do this, and here you're
(06:01):
going to have the opportunity to lead a major semiconductor company.
On Yes, you're right, it wasn't the best time, but
I was pretty confident that we had the right pieces.
They just needed to be put together in the right way.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Now AMD stock is trading in a totally different stratosphere.
Was there a moment along the way where you really
saw AMD turn a corner?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The corner, the corner. There's so many moments when you
think about ten years, but probably the most important moment
for us was the launch of our new architecture, the
launch of Zen you'll hear us talk about Zen a lot.
Zen was our clean sheet design to really design the
(06:48):
next generation architecture in CPUs for the next decade, and
that's what Zen was. We started it back even before
it became CEO. That work had started. But what we
needed to do was really make the right bets in
terms of where technology was going, where computing was going,
and we made some very good decisions. And seeing Zen
(07:10):
in action, you know, really getting it out of the labs,
testing it, having customers test it, you know, launching Zen
like at that moment, we're like, hmm, we got something
special here.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Now. There's no shortage of drama when it comes to
chip making. Even when you're winning, the game changes. Do
you ever feel like you're running a race that just
never stops?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh, of course, of course, absolutely, That's exactly what we're doing.
But I think what's very interesting about it, it's like
we're running a race, but it's a different race. Actually,
So when I think about AMD, I think, but I'm
running like a different company every few years. The industry
is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
(07:53):
changing that fast. The problems that we're trying to solve
with our customers are changing that fast. So yes, we're
a race. It's a fantastic race though, because each race
is different. It's like a different movie, but it's a
more exciting movie each time.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So how do you catch up? I mean, do you
feel like you're like you can never take a water break?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Kind of Yeah, it is kind of like that. I mean,
we are pushing the bleeding edge of technology every minute
of the day, and we're trying to put more capability
running the next AI model, running the next computing application.
And yeah, it is like we're running a very fast race.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
This current AI wave is moving so fast. How would
you describe the pace right now?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So I have to tell you, I truly believe AI
is the most transformational technology that I've seen in my career.
And you know, we've seen all kinds of technology transitions.
We've seen the rise of the Internet. We've seen the
rise of the PCs, mobile phones, cloud, all of these things,
we're all mega trends. I think AI actually surpasses all
(09:00):
of that because of the potential in terms of what
it can do for humanity, what it can do for businesses,
what it can do across the board. So I'm super
excited about AI. And when I think about this AI wave,
it really is about the rate and pace of change. Now,
if you think about what really woke up the entire
(09:21):
world to AI, was really like the chat GPT moment, right,
And I remember that moment. I remember sitting in a
staff meeting with my staff and having one of my
guys say, Hey, Lisa, you really need to try this
chat GPT. It just came out like four or five
days ago, and it's amazing. And from that moment to
this day, and I was probably a little less than
two years ago, the rate and pace of change in
(09:43):
the industry, whether you're talking about in our industry, in
the semiconductor industry, or you're talking about on the software
side or the applications front, it's like faster than anything
we've ever seen. It's like we've made more progress in
the last eighteen months than certainly the last ten plus years.
And that's great. That's what you want. You want technology
to make a difference. So that's where we are.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So when you try chat GPT for the first time,
what went through your head, well.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Went through my head, is this is the promise of
what tech can do. AI has been around for a
long time. So it's not as if AI was completely new,
but it was not something that was easily accessible. It
was not something that every company used because you know, frankly,
you had to have a PhD to be able to
figure out how to use AI. What chatch Gypt did
(10:27):
was unlock the ability that everybody could use AI. I
could use it, You could use it. Everybody can use it.
My dad can use it. That's what is different about
this way. That's what's different about large language models, what
you can do, and that's what set this incredible investment
cycle that is currently around AI today.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So in terms of the competitive the broader competitive landscape,
are we seeing technology rewarding companies that made the right
choices for punishing a certain company that lost its way.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I like to say that what we're seeing today
is is that computing is now so important. Semiconductors are
so important. You know. One of the things that amazes me.
You know, when I graduated from college, you know, I
would tell people I was doing semiconductors and they would say, what,
what's that? Like you build chips? Like what does that mean?
(11:19):
People didn't even understand like where technology really fit in
the grand scheme of things like now everybody knows everybody
talks about chips. You open up the paper, you open
up your your browser, and it's all about what's happening
in the chip industry. Chips are hot, and it's because
we're so I can say it, like we're so important, right,
This is like foundational to how we run the world.
(11:43):
So if you put that in perspective, yeah, I think
it's a super exciting place to be right now. And
what it does is it encourages people to take risk.
It encourages us to really push the envelope because when
you think about it, when industries are mature, you look
at how do you get a little bit costs out
of the system. When an industry is growing by leaps
and bounds, and when we're trying to get to the
(12:05):
next wave and the next model, like, you have to
take risks. You have to be bold in your thinking.
And that's the most fun time.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Has the shakeup of a very established industry surprised even you?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
It has a little bit, I have to say. I
mean what has surprised me a bit is just how
foundational the conversation has become. When you think about this
conversation about the resiliency of the world depending on you know,
semiconductor diversification, like those kinds of things. Those are big things,
are beyond an industry. They're really underpinning the global economy,
(12:38):
you know, underpinning national security, those types of things. So yeah,
I think it's very positive, but it is something that
for someone who's been in semi conductors for a long time,
it's different.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
How is this revolution in AI going to fundamentally change
our relationship with machines.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
My view is that AI gives each of us the
opportunity to be smarter, more productive, more efficient, and just
enjoy our lives better because the purposes using technology to
kind of do the things that you don't want to do,
or in some cases, for companies to really augment all
(13:16):
of the let's call it what we want is brilliance
and creativity and innovation in our employees. What we want
to do is make all of the let's call it
the regular work easier, and AI is an opportunity to
do that well.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Speaking of the competition in Nvidia is seen as the
dominant force in AI right now, and AMD is widely
considered the next best option. Is that good enough for you.
Do you like being seen as the underdog?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I wouldn't call it a like or dislike. What I
would say is AMD has had a history of doing
amazing things, and from that standpoint, we've always been in
this place where we haven't necessarily had the same amount
of people that other larger companies have, but we've certainly
punched well above our weight in terms of technology capability,
(14:01):
in terms of impact on the industry. So I love
our current setup. And why do I love our current setup.
We're in the most exciting part of the industry, Like
the most exciting part of the computing industry is how
do you enable AI? And our view is AI is
going to be everywhere. AI is going to be in
every application, every product, everywhere you go, you're going to
need computing and we're at that place right now.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, sometimes people underestimate the underdog, and that can be
an advantage.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think what people should recognize and when I think
about the history of technology evolution, it is having a
great vision for where you want to go and being
able to execute really, really well through multiple generations. That's
what we have done well. I feel very fortunate to
be in the company of the great partners that we
(14:47):
have across AMD. I think that's what makes it fun
for me. What makes it fun is, yes, we build
great things, but it makes it fun when we're working
with our customers and partners and making that a ten
x type thing. So having partners like Microsoft and Google
and Meta and Oracle and all of our broad ecosystem,
it's yeah, how do we build some incredible technology together.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, let's talk about some of these customers. So many
of your customers are building their own chips hyperscalers like
Apple and Meta and Google and Microsoft and Amazon. Is
that a threat?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
The way I think about it is, Look, this is
a huge market, Emily, there's like more than enough chips
for everybody to build. And the beauty of this is
everyone's recognized that chips are so important. Yes, so it's
natural that they're going to have their own capability. On
the other hand, our opportunity is to make one plus
one greater than three. So our opportunity is actually to
(15:43):
help our largest partners go faster in terms of what
they want to implement and do. And that's my philosophy.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So GPUs were initially built for gaming graphics and now
they're being used in generative AI. Could these hyper scalers
come up with their own specific architecture that makes you
less attractive.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, the beauty of how this industry works is it's
all about computing at the end of the day. If
you have good architects, if you know what problem you're
trying to solve, you're going to come up with great solutions. CPUs,
by the way, are super important. They really are the
foundation of traditional computing, an area where you know, over
the last number of decades we've made a tremendous progress.
(16:25):
GPUs have been particularly important, as you said, starting with gaming,
but you know, certainly now in the AI world, I
think they're great. But there's no one size fits all
in computing. You're going to need all different types of
computing and that's what we're able to do. So yeah,
do I think there's going to be, like ten years
from now, a different architecture. There could be. There could be,
but the foundational building blocks are the same and that's
(16:47):
what we're specializing in.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
How do you plan to evolve pricing over time? Because
my understanding is that for CPUs, you started cheaper, but
raise prices when your quality came up. Rather than lowering
prices for the whole industry. Is that what your strategy
will be with training chips for example, You know, our.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Strategy is always to find win wins. Like I'm a
big believer in long term partnerships, and from that standpoint,
what we have to do is provide value to our customers.
And the value from my standpoint is always around, you know,
how do we make sure that they have better total
cost of ownership? When you think about with each generation,
(17:25):
the reason to go to new chips and the reason
to go to the next generation is because you get
better performance per dollar, because you're able to do more
for less, And that's really what we do. And so
when you think about as technology progresses, our goal is
to make sure that when we're able to get to
that next generation that for sure the benefits are shared
with our customers and to make money of course, of course,
(17:47):
I mean at the end of the day, we have
lots of different stakeholders. But I do believe Emily, there's
a way to balance all of these things. Right. The
key is great technology is a foundation and the ability
to work with our customers and partners to really build
that foundation is something that we very much appreciate.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
There's concern that all this spending on AI isn't justified
by the returns.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You're one of the most bullish.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Why isn't this nineteen ninety nine all over again?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Oh, I think it's nothing like it, nothing like it.
You have to think about put short term dynamics aside.
What do you see in the long term. What we
see in the long term is every application, every business,
every industry can be enhanced by AI. Like it will
make us more productive, it will make us more efficient,
(18:35):
it will help solve some of the world's most difficult
research problems. I'm very, very bullish on what it can
do in healthcare, for example. So these are all avenues
that we think the technology can make things so much better. So, yeah,
we're at the very very beginnings. And I can say
it because we watch it every day like it's good,
but we know it can get so much better. Like
(18:57):
we just know that these models will get so much
better as you go forward. And from that standpoint, we're
just at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
I've heard you don't take from.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Anyone who's told you that somebody, but Seriously, I've heard
your toughest nails, and I'm sure you have to be
How would you describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, I like to win, if that's okay. But what
I like is, you know, when you look at great
leaders in the industry, what they really do is they
make their teams better than they thought they could be. Like,
that's sort of my philosophy. My philosophy is how do
we do what people thought was impossible? And with that, yeah,
(19:42):
you know, we're very ambitious. There's a lot of execution involved,
but it's super fun at the end of that. And
what's most fun right now is the work that we're
doing is actually impacting billions of people's lives. I love
saying that AMD technology is touched by billions of people
every day, you know, whether you're talking about what you're
(20:03):
doing on teams or what you're doing in collaboration environments,
or what you're doing with Instagram, or what you're doing
with Netflix or Uber, all of those things. Like when
you touch those major brands, they're using AMD technology underneath that.
And that makes me happy because that means that what
we're working on is something that's important.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
The tech industry can't help but keep making tech that's better, faster, smarter,
of course, but I also think about the consequences and
the next generation who's going to live in this generative
AI world.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
AI tutors sound great, but how do you think about
the consequences or the potential dark side?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well, I don't believe in a world where technology takes over,
so I'm not one of those believers. I think, at
the end of the day, as good as technology is,
having a human actually complete the thought is super important,
and so yes, AI tutors can be helpful. Personal assistants
can be helpful. I'd love to have a little bit
(20:58):
more help organizing my day, but at the end of
the day, I want to decide what I do. And
I think that's the key balance that we have to
have in any usage of technology is recognizing that the
technology is there to help us. But at the end
of the day, you can't build a great product without
the ingenuity of the engineers who get together in a
room and brainstorm a whole bunch of ideas and come
(21:21):
up with something that is so much better than any
one of them could have come up with on their own.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How do you see this transforming your own workforce. Do
you want many more AI agents or more direct reports?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think we're going to have both. I think we're
going to have both. But what I really envision is
a world where, like, for example, in our business, what's
so critical is we have so many more good ideas
and we have people to get the job done right.
That's the bottom line. We're like so many ideas, so
many trips we want to build, so many new applications,
so many customers we want to support. We believe that
(21:53):
AI will help us get more products to market faster,
help us build more reliable products, help us support customers better,
help us get our software out to market faster, all
of those things. So yeah, I need both.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I know you're an engineer at heart. You've got three
degrees from MIT. How does that shape your philosophy?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
On some days?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Are you an engineer first and a CEO second?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think on most days I'd like to be an
engineer first. I have to say, you know, I didn't
actually want to get a PhD. Even like when I
went to MIT as a as an undergrad, I studied
electrical engineering. Then I got my master's and I was like,
my life is supposed to start now like, I'm supposed
to go out into the real world and get some
real world experience, and my parents are like, no, no, no,
(22:38):
you can only do this once. You can only get
that education once. And so I regudgingly went into the
PhD program, and I said, how can I finish this
as fast as physically possible so I can start my life.
And what I realize is that the foundation that you
get from an engineering education just stays with you for
(22:59):
a life time, which means, you know, my parents were right,
even though I didn't think so at the time, and
it just helps you solve problems. So that that's what
I do. What is the job of an engineer or
a job of CEO. Our job is to solve problems
and with that the problems get a little bit more
interesting and a bit more challenging and a bit more
(23:19):
impactful as you go on.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
How do you make tough decisions when there isn't a
clear answer?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What I like to do is actually spend time with
the people who are closest to the topic. When I
started as CEO, I think we had maybe eight thousand
people and today it's, you know, somewhere north of twenty five.
You know, twenty six, twenty seven, something like that, And
you realize that there's a lot of people, but there
are some who really know what they're talking about. And
(23:46):
they may not necessarily be my direct reports. They may
be you know, sort of the chief engineer on a project,
or you know, the guy that's running something in the lab.
And the best way to make decisions is to make
sure that you have good information. It's not perfect information,
but it's good information from people who are closest to
the data.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Now, to win and keep winning, you have to keep
up the pace and keep bringing the heat over decades.
How do you keep it up for yourself? How do
you keep up your own pace? Personally?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, I like what I do. I have to say,
I really enjoy just the learning part of technology and
the learning part of being in our industry. Like I
spend a lot of time with our engineers as they're
developing products. I spend a lot of time with customers
as they're thinking about what they need next. And in
every one of those conversations, I learned something, and I
(24:35):
learned something that I can then say, hey, you know,
maybe we should do this just a little bit differently.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Going back to the guy who said AMD was deader
than dead. You proved the naysayer is wrong. That has
to feel like vindication. Do you ever just like shut
the door and go yes by yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't know that I do that, Emily.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm just imagining, imagining what might happen.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The days that are really fun are when we get
our first silicon out, Like we've been planning this product.
These products take you know, three to five years to
come to fruition, and when you get that first silicon out,
you're like, wow, that looks good. That's super fun.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So is it time for a shot in ay? Like,
how do you celebrate?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, those those aren't like after you finish
one of those days, you're like, cool, that was a
good day.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Will Intel ever be what it once was?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
First of all, I have tremendous respect for Intel as
a company, and you know, for all their leadership all
these years. I think when we look at the industry
going forward, for all of us, it's about putting out
great technology and you know, ensuring that you do that
time and time again. So you know, that's certainly you know,
our goal in life, and you know, I imagine that's
(25:47):
true of most of my.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Pure CEOs speaking of the broader ecosystem, are we at
risk of exchanging the dominance of one company Intel for
the dominance of another in Nvidia.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
When you look at the history of technology arcs, there
is no one size fits all for computing. There's no
one company that has all the answers for the breadth
of applications and problems that there are out there. And
so yeah, I think competition is a great thing. We
have just a tremendous set of applications across the industry
(26:19):
that we're trying to get solutions to. Frankly, I like
our roadmap a lot. We are very focused on being
you know, sort of the end to end AI provider
and that goes across you know, sort of the biggest
installations in the world and the cloud environments, you know,
down to what you have in your enterprise businesses to
your personal computers for example. And you know, it's a
(26:40):
huge market. Like you know, we just talked about it
at our latest Advancing AI Day. We believe it's a
five hundred billion dollar accelerator market by the time we
get to twenty twenty eight. That's huge opportunity for all
of us.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Competition may be a good thing, but do you see
this as unfair competition?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I think the key is competition is a good thing,
and from my perspective, it's a very open industry, and
so you know, our goal is to make sure that
one of the things that's very important to us sort
of AMD has some tenants. Right. Yes, we are very
focused on a great technology. We're also very focused on
an open ecosystem. And in open ecosystems, what we want
(27:20):
to do is allow people to innovate together. And we
actually think that that's a better answer.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
The US government is considering capping exports of your chips
and in vidias to other countries. Is that the right call?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
A lot of this conversation around geopolitics and you know,
sort of the importance of technology. We totally get it.
I mean, the technology that we're building is some of
the most powerful chips in the world, and so we
totally get that there's a national security element of it.
We are fortunate, we appreciate that there's a lot of
discussion between US and you know, some of the government
(27:55):
officials that are working on this. I think the right
answer is we want there to be as open a
market as possible while still taking into account the national
security interests, and it's a give and take.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
You were born in Taiwan, and I know you go
back to your hometown often. What's your favorite thing to
do when you're not visiting fabs?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You know, I really do love Taiwan. And I was
born in Taian, so it was a small city in
the southern part of Taiwan. Actually, I was just there
not too long ago to visit family. And we have
a big family, you know. My dad had like nine
siblings and my mom had like six, so it was
like a big family. So there are lots and lots
of cousins and aunts and uncles and all of that,
(28:36):
and so yeah, it's just fun to kind of be
a part of that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Taiwan manufactured ninety percent of ai servers worldwide, and obviously
it's the world's biggest producer of chips. What is it
about Taiwan that's put it in a position to have
such a profound and critical impact on the world.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I think it's decades of investment and focus. Like if
you think about the ecosystem in Taiwan around semiconductors, the
entire sort of fabulous industry was created with the idea
that there would be a foundry. You know, back whatever
twenty years ago, it was everybody had to have their
own manufacturing. And what we found is it just becomes
(29:13):
very expensive, and frankly, scale is important in semiconductors, so
it became very expensive if you want to do it yourself,
and you could do it better with contract manufacturing and foundryes.
So Timeline Semiconductor has perfected the model of a shared
service for all of us who are great design companies.
And yeah, they've done a great job.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Tension between the US and China doesn't appear to be
diffusing anytime soon. Could the US efforts to cut off
China backfire and lead the Chinese chip industry to lead
by default.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
When we look at the global ecosystem, there's a tremendous
amount of investment that's going into semiconductors everywhere. And that's
true in the US, that's true in Europe, that's true,
you know, in China, and overall. I think the way
to stay ahead, frankly is to con tinue to invest,
to continue to push the bleeding edge. That's certainly what
we're doing. You know. The key there is when you
(30:06):
look at it. The amount of innovation that happens when
you have a open ecosystem and when you have an
open environment is tremendous. And so again we're big proponents
of that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But if the ecosystem doesn't stay open, I guess I
wonder could that push China to push harder for Taiwan's independence?
And do you worry about that, Like, do you worry
about the future of Taiwan?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Well, I would say we all worry about ensuring that
there is resiliency in the supply chain. So put China
and Taiwan aside. I mean, you can say that about anyone,
like if you had concentration in any particular region, like
for example, a few years ago, we had a big
storm in Texas and like things are out for like
a few days. That's geographic concentration that you want to
(30:55):
make sure that there's resiliency for. And so yes, we
always think about how do we get resiliency for the
supply chain as one of the many, many things that
we have to think about.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I know you've moved some of AMG's chip production to
the TSMC's fab in Arizona. Do you think manufacturing of
chips will ever move back to the US in a
meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I think some will. Yeah. Look, I'm a big proponent
of the Chips Act. I think it's again a recognition
of how important semiconductors are. I think both on the
manufacturing side and on the R and D side, the
Chips Act has been good to remind everyone that you
investing in a resilient supply chain is a good thing.
So we're never going to get to the place where
(31:33):
everything is done in the US, but we can certainly
get to a place where there's a good amount of
manufacturing capability in the US well.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And as you said, for the last several decades, everyone
has thought software is sexy? Is it Hardware's time again?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Where should kids be going?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Kids should absolutely look at how they can change the world.
And you can change the world in hardware.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Okay, why do you think you can change the world
in hardware?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Why we just see what we're building. We're seeing what
we're building, Like everywhere you turn, it's powered by technology.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Okay, I have to ask this question. People are kind
of obsessed with the fact that you and Jensen are
distant cousins. I know that you are competitors, but do
you ever tread notes? Do you ever check in on
at family dinners?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Well, first of all, Jensen is brilliant, so I fully
admire him for that. We were really distant, so we
didn't grow up together. We actually met at an industry event,
so it wasn't until we were well into our careers
and we see each other at industry events. Look, there
are lots of places where some conductor CEOs show up
(32:40):
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So no family dinners.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Just to put the rumor to rest, no family dinners.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Okay, it is a juicy coincidence.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, it is an interesting coincidence.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Nobody gets here without a village. And I saw that
you mentioned your husband Dan would be with you on
your perfect day. I know my husband is, you know,
my cheerleader, my biggest supporter, my life producer, in addition
to my amazing show producers. Lauren, how has your husband
impacted your career?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I've been really lucky throughout sort of life to have
people who are just so super supportive. I mean, you know,
starting from my parents, who besides asking me to get
a PhD, just have been super supportive of just career ambition,
all of that. And you know I was very lucky
when I met Dan to meet someone who was just
(33:28):
equally supportive and his view on the world is he
loves our products as much as I love our products.
Like he's always talking to me about what's going on,
like how's that product development going. He attends all of
our launch events, and yeah, at the end of the day,
it feels good because it's something that we share. We
share this love of technology, and he shares a real
(33:49):
passion for the work that we do.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's so sweet. Everyone's curious about the habits of super
successful leaders. What are your go tos? Like, what's in
your daily routine?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
What's in my daily routine this morning, I was up
at six thirty boxing, So that's in the daily routine?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yes, yes, right. You need to have energy when you
start a morning.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And a day is either you know, here in the office,
or it's on the road. I spend a lot of
time on the road, a lot of time with customers,
a lot of time with partners. But when I'm here
in Austin, it's a good day. It's a good day
to sleep in your own bed, it's a good day
to check in on how projects are going.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What's your happy place?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
My happy place? What is my happy place? I know
you like to golf. I do like to golf. My
happy place is spending time with family, with teams. Playing
golf is a great thing. I don't get to play enough,
that's the problem. That's the problem. It gets hot in Texas,
(34:46):
so only get to play certain ones of the year.
But yeah, those are all great things.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
If you were twenty years old, what advice would you
give yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Dream big? Like ambition is a great thing, Dream big
and chart your path.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
What's left to achieve at AMD? What are your targets?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Oh, Emily, we're just getting started. I mean, wow, what's
left to achieve? Look, we are in just an amazing
time for technology, and I truly believe that we're at
this inflection point where technology becomes even more personal and
more pervasive, more part of each of our lives, and
(35:26):
we're at the center of that. So there's so much
left to do, and it's primarily around you making this
end to end AI vision a reality that everyone can
touch and feel and be a part of.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
What else do you want to accomplish in the world
aside from making am D succeed?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
You know, there are lots of things I'm passionate about
the next generation of leadership. I was very lucky in
my career. People paid attention and you know, gave me opportunities.
I believe that's part of my job as well. There
should be more women in technology. I think there are more.
Like we've made a lot of progress over the last
number of years, but there's a lot more to do.
So I'm pretty passionate about that. I'm passionate about technology
(36:09):
for good and using technology in ways to make our
lives better. Like, I really believe there's an opportunity in
the intersection of healthcare and technology when I think about
patient care and medical discoveries and opportunities there, like these
industries can come closer together. And so those are those
are some things that I think about.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I know you said we're making progress on the women
in technology thing, but sometimes it feels like we're going
backwards too. It's like three steps forward, two steps back,
two steps forward, three steps back. Why do you think
it's important that people know that you can be a
badass woman's CEO.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You can do that well. I don't think it's three
steps forward, two steps backward. I think it's perhaps one
step forward when we would hope that we're doing three
or five steps forward. So that's what I would say. Look,
we are definitely making progress. I mean, there are a
lot of you know, great women out there. You know,
one of the organizations you're very passionate about is the
(37:08):
Global Semiconductor Association has a women's Leadership initiative. They've done
amazing things. We've had hundreds of women get together and
network and just give each other both mentoring opportunities, tips, networking,
just knowing that somebody else is out there. So my
point is progress is being made. Sure it's not fast enough,
(37:30):
but why is it important. You know, at the end
of the day, to do great things, you need to
have the best people in the room. And the best
people in the room are men and women, So you
want to make sure that there's good representation for that.
One of the things that we've seen at AMD is like,
I'm really passionate about having more women technical leaders. And
you know, men and women are different, and so you
have to coach them differently and give them different advice.
(37:52):
But at the end of the day, all you can
do is create opportunities and let people shine in those moments.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
What barriers do you feel like you fain personally and
how did you overcome them that maybe we could learn from.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I would say I was very lucky throughout my career.
But one of the things that I learned along the
way is again, men and women are different. Like, for example,
when I was earlier in my career, I was actually
quite shy, quite shy meeting like you didn't necessarily speak
up in rooms full of people who had twenty years
more experience than you did. Like I was like the
(38:26):
young kid right walking into a room in you know,
IBM's TJ. Watson Research Center with these brilliant people. And
what I learned is you should feel pretty confident in
yourself in your ability to add. And I got great
opportunities to do that, right. I got a chance to
work on, you know, some of the latest and greatest,
most important technologies when I was two years out of college.
(38:47):
And that built a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So what's the lastson in there?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Have confidence in yourself, take a chance, don't worry about failure,
sit in those meeting rooms and say what's on your
mind and volunteer. Sure, I give people this advice a lot.
I was given this advice when I was a young engineer.
Run towards problems. And what does that mean? Run towards problems?
It means, Look, we're all going to work really hard
(39:10):
every day. You might as well work really hard on
something that is really important. And so look for that
hardest problem to solve and volunteer to help because you're
going to learn a lot in the process. You're going
to distinguish yourself. And what's the worst thing that's going
to happen? Do you make a mistake? Okay, fine, get up.
The next day is another day, and you will have
learned so much in that process. And thank you for
(39:32):
paving the way.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Honestly. Last question, why do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I want my legacy to be that we have built
transformational technology. All right, well at work? Thank you, fantastic,
Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to this edition
of the Circuit.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You can catch the full episode on Bloomberg Originals and YouTube.
I'm Emily Chang, follow me on x and Instagram at
Emily Chang tv. And you can watch new episodes of
the Circuit on Bloomberg Television, stream on the Bloomberg app
or YouTube, and let us know what you think. Leave
a review. Those extra reviews really make a difference. I'm
your host and executive producer. Our senior producer is Lauren Ellis.
(40:10):
Our editor is Alison Casey. Thanks for listening.
I'm Emily Chang and this is The Circuit. Finally, after
nearly two seasons of bringing you interviews with the top
leaders in tech in business, the Circuit is going to
be talking about circuits on an actual racing circuit. This
episode will take you to F one in Austin, but
first we start at the headquarters of one of the biggest.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Chip makers in the world.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
There's no shortage of drama when it comes to chip making.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Even when you're winning.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The game changes. Do you ever feel like you're running
a race that just never stops.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Of course, absolutely, that's exactly what we're doing. I'm running
like a different company every few years. Like the industry
is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
changing that fast. It's a fantastic race though.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
That's Lisa Sue, the CEO of Advanced micro Devices or AMD.
She's been at the driver's seat at the chip company
for ten years, engineering a strategy that transformed it from
and also ran into a formidable force in gaming, PCs
and the cloud, which rule just about everything around us.
It's one of the most ubiquitous and most consequential technologies
(01:05):
in the world, and it's Lisa Sue's obsession. Born in
Taiwan with three degrees from MIT, she takes a no
nonsense approach when it comes to innovation and the competition.
I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
I've heard you don't take from anyone who's.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Told you that somebody, But seriously, I've heard your toughest
nails and I'm sure you have to be How would
you describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, I like to win, if that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Sue's next great challenge is catching up to Nvidia, and
it's CEO Jensen Wang, who, by the way, is her
distant cousin. She's going head to head to deliver the
most advanced chips for an AI powered world. The question
is can she keep up? I met up with Sue
at AMD's campus and at the US Grand Prix in Austin,
and fun fact, Sue loves fast cars too. She happens
(01:56):
to collect porsches herself. AMD is also a sponsor of
the Mercedes F one team. We dive into her career,
the bets she's making to stay in the competition, and
her long view on the global race between China and
the United States on chip supremacy. Joining me now a
m d CEO and chair Lisa Sue. Hello, hello, thank
(02:18):
you so much for doing that.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So great to be in Austin.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That's where you live, it's where I live.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
How long have you been living in because you were
in Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Before, lived in Austin since let's see two thousand and seven,
So how long has that been. That's been a long time. Yeah, no,
I used to hear from New York.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I used to live in New York, okay, and that
was probably quite a culture shock.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yes, it's my second time in Texas though. Okay, so
I write after my PhD. I my first job was
at TI So I actually lived in Dallas for not
a long time.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But then didn't you go back to New York? Yes, yes, yes,
because Texas was Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Texas was tough, no offense.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But now it's your home. Now it's hold and it's
probably changed so much.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It is at Austin is a very nice city. I mean,
hopefully you'll get to see a little bit of Boston.
It's just it's really a great city. It's grown so
much in the last ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
How do you feel about Austin as a tech hub.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Now it's great, everyone's here and this notion of I
used to think I was just passing by Austin, so
I was going to live here for a few years
and then had my way to Silicon Valley. This is
sort of midpoint and now like I'm in Silicon Valley
a lot, but one doesn't need to live there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And what do you think about the fact that, like
the center of gravity is still in Silicon Valley and
the town is still in Silicon Valley, and you just
can't beat it anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
There are a lot of wonderful people in Silicon Valley
you can't beat just you know, you can walk into
the coffee shop and you know, meet someone for breakfast
and somebody else for lunch, So you can't beat that.
That being the case, we're just so global now. Yeah,
like everyone is everywhere, so I feel like I'm everywhere.
I don't actually, even though I live in Austin, I
don't feel like I live in Austin because I'm not
(04:01):
in Austin as much as I would like to be.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You've been CEO of AMD for ten years. You've been
working in the chip industry for decades. But I want
to go back to a moment. When did you first
hear that you were going to be CEO of AMD?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, it was probably maybe September twenty fourteen. Yeah, it's
one of those phone calls. You know, it's a phone
call you get from your Chairman of the board, Bruce Claughlin,
and he said, Lisa, can you talk. I'm like sure,
and he goes, it's time and I'm like time for what? Uh?
(04:39):
You know, I had just been COEO for about six
months or so, and you know, I was learning a
lot about AMD, a lot about the industry, particularly around PCs,
and that was sort of new to me when I
joined AMD. And uh, yeah, he said, you know, the
board has made a decision they would like you to
be the next CEO.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh I said, okay, Well how did that feel? It
was a tough time. I mean, AMD was training at
two dollars a share. One guy said it was deader
than dead.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What made you so was that guy?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
It was an AMD employee? What made you think you
could prove them wrong?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I think you have to maybe take a step back
and just you know a little bit about sort of
how I think about these things. You know, I've been
in the semiconductor industry for quite a while. At that
point in time, you know, let's call it a couple
of decades. There were so few places in the industry
where you could really work on bleeding edge technology, and
(05:39):
AMD was one of those places. So if you ask
why did I join AMD? I joined AMD because I'm like, look,
I like working on high performance things and I think
I can make a difference at this company. So the
opportunity to be CEO of AMD, it was truly like
a dream come true. It's like, wow, okay, like you
think that maybe you can do this, and here you're
(06:01):
going to have the opportunity to lead a major semiconductor company.
On Yes, you're right, it wasn't the best time, but
I was pretty confident that we had the right pieces.
They just needed to be put together in the right way.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Now AMD stock is trading in a totally different stratosphere.
Was there a moment along the way where you really
saw AMD turn a corner?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The corner, the corner. There's so many moments when you
think about ten years, but probably the most important moment
for us was the launch of our new architecture, the
launch of Zen you'll hear us talk about Zen a lot.
Zen was our clean sheet design to really design the
(06:48):
next generation architecture in CPUs for the next decade, and
that's what Zen was. We started it back even before
it became CEO. That work had started. But what we
needed to do was really make the right bets in
terms of where technology was going, where computing was going,
and we made some very good decisions. And seeing Zen
(07:10):
in action, you know, really getting it out of the labs,
testing it, having customers test it, you know, launching Zen
like at that moment, we're like, hmm, we got something
special here.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Now. There's no shortage of drama when it comes to
chip making. Even when you're winning, the game changes. Do
you ever feel like you're running a race that just
never stops?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh, of course, of course, absolutely, That's exactly what we're doing.
But I think what's very interesting about it, it's like
we're running a race, but it's a different race. Actually,
So when I think about AMD, I think, but I'm
running like a different company every few years. The industry
is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
(07:53):
changing that fast. The problems that we're trying to solve
with our customers are changing that fast. So yes, we're
a race. It's a fantastic race though, because each race
is different. It's like a different movie, but it's a
more exciting movie each time.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So how do you catch up? I mean, do you
feel like you're like you can never take a water break?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Kind of Yeah, it is kind of like that. I mean,
we are pushing the bleeding edge of technology every minute
of the day, and we're trying to put more capability
running the next AI model, running the next computing application.
And yeah, it is like we're running a very fast race.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
This current AI wave is moving so fast. How would
you describe the pace right now?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So I have to tell you, I truly believe AI
is the most transformational technology that I've seen in my career.
And you know, we've seen all kinds of technology transitions.
We've seen the rise of the Internet. We've seen the
rise of the PCs, mobile phones, cloud, all of these things,
we're all mega trends. I think AI actually surpasses all
(09:00):
of that because of the potential in terms of what
it can do for humanity, what it can do for businesses,
what it can do across the board. So I'm super
excited about AI. And when I think about this AI wave,
it really is about the rate and pace of change. Now,
if you think about what really woke up the entire
(09:21):
world to AI, was really like the chat GPT moment, right,
And I remember that moment. I remember sitting in a
staff meeting with my staff and having one of my
guys say, Hey, Lisa, you really need to try this
chat GPT. It just came out like four or five
days ago, and it's amazing. And from that moment to
this day, and I was probably a little less than
two years ago, the rate and pace of change in
(09:43):
the industry, whether you're talking about in our industry, in
the semiconductor industry, or you're talking about on the software
side or the applications front, it's like faster than anything
we've ever seen. It's like we've made more progress in
the last eighteen months than certainly the last ten plus years.
And that's great. That's what you want. You want technology
to make a difference. So that's where we are.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So when you try chat GPT for the first time,
what went through your head, well.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Went through my head, is this is the promise of
what tech can do. AI has been around for a
long time. So it's not as if AI was completely new,
but it was not something that was easily accessible. It
was not something that every company used because you know, frankly,
you had to have a PhD to be able to
figure out how to use AI. What chatch Gypt did
(10:27):
was unlock the ability that everybody could use AI. I
could use it, You could use it. Everybody can use it.
My dad can use it. That's what is different about
this way. That's what's different about large language models, what
you can do, and that's what set this incredible investment
cycle that is currently around AI today.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So in terms of the competitive the broader competitive landscape,
are we seeing technology rewarding companies that made the right
choices for punishing a certain company that lost its way.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I like to say that what we're seeing today
is is that computing is now so important. Semiconductors are
so important. You know. One of the things that amazes me.
You know, when I graduated from college, you know, I
would tell people I was doing semiconductors and they would say, what,
what's that? Like you build chips? Like what does that mean?
(11:19):
People didn't even understand like where technology really fit in
the grand scheme of things like now everybody knows everybody
talks about chips. You open up the paper, you open
up your your browser, and it's all about what's happening
in the chip industry. Chips are hot, and it's because
we're so I can say it, like we're so important, right,
This is like foundational to how we run the world.
(11:43):
So if you put that in perspective, yeah, I think
it's a super exciting place to be right now. And
what it does is it encourages people to take risk.
It encourages us to really push the envelope because when
you think about it, when industries are mature, you look
at how do you get a little bit costs out
of the system. When an industry is growing by leaps
and bounds, and when we're trying to get to the
(12:05):
next wave and the next model, like, you have to
take risks. You have to be bold in your thinking.
And that's the most fun time.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Has the shakeup of a very established industry surprised even you?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
It has a little bit, I have to say. I
mean what has surprised me a bit is just how
foundational the conversation has become. When you think about this
conversation about the resiliency of the world depending on you know,
semiconductor diversification, like those kinds of things. Those are big things,
are beyond an industry. They're really underpinning the global economy,
(12:38):
you know, underpinning national security, those types of things. So yeah,
I think it's very positive, but it is something that
for someone who's been in semi conductors for a long time,
it's different.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
How is this revolution in AI going to fundamentally change
our relationship with machines.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
My view is that AI gives each of us the
opportunity to be smarter, more productive, more efficient, and just
enjoy our lives better because the purposes using technology to
kind of do the things that you don't want to do,
or in some cases, for companies to really augment all
(13:16):
of the let's call it what we want is brilliance
and creativity and innovation in our employees. What we want
to do is make all of the let's call it
the regular work easier, and AI is an opportunity to
do that well.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Speaking of the competition in Nvidia is seen as the
dominant force in AI right now, and AMD is widely
considered the next best option. Is that good enough for you.
Do you like being seen as the underdog?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I wouldn't call it a like or dislike. What I
would say is AMD has had a history of doing
amazing things, and from that standpoint, we've always been in
this place where we haven't necessarily had the same amount
of people that other larger companies have, but we've certainly
punched well above our weight in terms of technology capability,
(14:01):
in terms of impact on the industry. So I love
our current setup. And why do I love our current setup.
We're in the most exciting part of the industry, Like
the most exciting part of the computing industry is how
do you enable AI? And our view is AI is
going to be everywhere. AI is going to be in
every application, every product, everywhere you go, you're going to
need computing and we're at that place right now.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, sometimes people underestimate the underdog, and that can be
an advantage.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think what people should recognize and when I think
about the history of technology evolution, it is having a
great vision for where you want to go and being
able to execute really, really well through multiple generations. That's
what we have done well. I feel very fortunate to
be in the company of the great partners that we
(14:47):
have across AMD. I think that's what makes it fun
for me. What makes it fun is, yes, we build
great things, but it makes it fun when we're working
with our customers and partners and making that a ten
x type thing. So having partners like Microsoft and Google
and Meta and Oracle and all of our broad ecosystem,
it's yeah, how do we build some incredible technology together.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, let's talk about some of these customers. So many
of your customers are building their own chips hyperscalers like
Apple and Meta and Google and Microsoft and Amazon. Is
that a threat?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
The way I think about it is, Look, this is
a huge market, Emily, there's like more than enough chips
for everybody to build. And the beauty of this is
everyone's recognized that chips are so important. Yes, so it's
natural that they're going to have their own capability. On
the other hand, our opportunity is to make one plus
one greater than three. So our opportunity is actually to
(15:43):
help our largest partners go faster in terms of what
they want to implement and do. And that's my philosophy.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So GPUs were initially built for gaming graphics and now
they're being used in generative AI. Could these hyper scalers
come up with their own specific architecture that makes you
less attractive.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, the beauty of how this industry works is it's
all about computing at the end of the day. If
you have good architects, if you know what problem you're
trying to solve, you're going to come up with great solutions. CPUs,
by the way, are super important. They really are the
foundation of traditional computing, an area where you know, over
the last number of decades we've made a tremendous progress.
(16:25):
GPUs have been particularly important, as you said, starting with gaming,
but you know, certainly now in the AI world, I
think they're great. But there's no one size fits all
in computing. You're going to need all different types of
computing and that's what we're able to do. So yeah,
do I think there's going to be, like ten years
from now, a different architecture. There could be. There could be,
but the foundational building blocks are the same and that's
(16:47):
what we're specializing in.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
How do you plan to evolve pricing over time? Because
my understanding is that for CPUs, you started cheaper, but
raise prices when your quality came up. Rather than lowering
prices for the whole industry. Is that what your strategy
will be with training chips for example, You know, our.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Strategy is always to find win wins. Like I'm a
big believer in long term partnerships, and from that standpoint,
what we have to do is provide value to our customers.
And the value from my standpoint is always around, you know,
how do we make sure that they have better total
cost of ownership? When you think about with each generation,
(17:25):
the reason to go to new chips and the reason
to go to the next generation is because you get
better performance per dollar, because you're able to do more
for less, And that's really what we do. And so
when you think about as technology progresses, our goal is
to make sure that when we're able to get to
that next generation that for sure the benefits are shared
with our customers and to make money of course, of course,
(17:47):
I mean at the end of the day, we have
lots of different stakeholders. But I do believe Emily, there's
a way to balance all of these things. Right. The
key is great technology is a foundation and the ability
to work with our customers and partners to really build
that foundation is something that we very much appreciate.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
There's concern that all this spending on AI isn't justified
by the returns.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You're one of the most bullish.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Why isn't this nineteen ninety nine all over again?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Oh, I think it's nothing like it, nothing like it.
You have to think about put short term dynamics aside.
What do you see in the long term. What we
see in the long term is every application, every business,
every industry can be enhanced by AI. Like it will
make us more productive, it will make us more efficient,
(18:35):
it will help solve some of the world's most difficult
research problems. I'm very, very bullish on what it can
do in healthcare, for example. So these are all avenues
that we think the technology can make things so much better. So, yeah,
we're at the very very beginnings. And I can say
it because we watch it every day like it's good,
but we know it can get so much better. Like
(18:57):
we just know that these models will get so much
better as you go forward. And from that standpoint, we're
just at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
I've heard you don't take from.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Anyone who's told you that somebody, but Seriously, I've heard
your toughest nails, and I'm sure you have to be
How would you describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, I like to win, if that's okay. But what
I like is, you know, when you look at great
leaders in the industry, what they really do is they
make their teams better than they thought they could be. Like,
that's sort of my philosophy. My philosophy is how do
we do what people thought was impossible? And with that, yeah,
(19:42):
you know, we're very ambitious. There's a lot of execution involved,
but it's super fun at the end of that. And
what's most fun right now is the work that we're
doing is actually impacting billions of people's lives. I love
saying that AMD technology is touched by billions of people
every day, you know, whether you're talking about what you're
(20:03):
doing on teams or what you're doing in collaboration environments,
or what you're doing with Instagram, or what you're doing
with Netflix or Uber, all of those things. Like when
you touch those major brands, they're using AMD technology underneath that.
And that makes me happy because that means that what
we're working on is something that's important.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
The tech industry can't help but keep making tech that's better, faster, smarter,
of course, but I also think about the consequences and
the next generation who's going to live in this generative
AI world.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
AI tutors sound great, but how do you think about
the consequences or the potential dark side?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well, I don't believe in a world where technology takes over,
so I'm not one of those believers. I think, at
the end of the day, as good as technology is,
having a human actually complete the thought is super important,
and so yes, AI tutors can be helpful. Personal assistants
can be helpful. I'd love to have a little bit
(20:58):
more help organizing my day, but at the end of
the day, I want to decide what I do. And
I think that's the key balance that we have to
have in any usage of technology is recognizing that the
technology is there to help us. But at the end
of the day, you can't build a great product without
the ingenuity of the engineers who get together in a
room and brainstorm a whole bunch of ideas and come
(21:21):
up with something that is so much better than any
one of them could have come up with on their own.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How do you see this transforming your own workforce. Do
you want many more AI agents or more direct reports?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think we're going to have both. I think we're
going to have both. But what I really envision is
a world where, like, for example, in our business, what's
so critical is we have so many more good ideas
and we have people to get the job done right.
That's the bottom line. We're like so many ideas, so
many trips we want to build, so many new applications,
so many customers we want to support. We believe that
(21:53):
AI will help us get more products to market faster,
help us build more reliable products, help us support customers better,
help us get our software out to market faster, all
of those things. So yeah, I need both.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I know you're an engineer at heart. You've got three
degrees from MIT. How does that shape your philosophy?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
On some days?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Are you an engineer first and a CEO second?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think on most days I'd like to be an
engineer first. I have to say, you know, I didn't
actually want to get a PhD. Even like when I
went to MIT as a as an undergrad, I studied
electrical engineering. Then I got my master's and I was like,
my life is supposed to start now like, I'm supposed
to go out into the real world and get some
real world experience, and my parents are like, no, no, no,
(22:38):
you can only do this once. You can only get
that education once. And so I regudgingly went into the
PhD program, and I said, how can I finish this
as fast as physically possible so I can start my life.
And what I realize is that the foundation that you
get from an engineering education just stays with you for
(22:59):
a life time, which means, you know, my parents were right,
even though I didn't think so at the time, and
it just helps you solve problems. So that that's what
I do. What is the job of an engineer or
a job of CEO. Our job is to solve problems
and with that the problems get a little bit more
interesting and a bit more challenging and a bit more
(23:19):
impactful as you go on.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
How do you make tough decisions when there isn't a
clear answer?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What I like to do is actually spend time with
the people who are closest to the topic. When I
started as CEO, I think we had maybe eight thousand
people and today it's, you know, somewhere north of twenty five.
You know, twenty six, twenty seven, something like that, And
you realize that there's a lot of people, but there
are some who really know what they're talking about. And
(23:46):
they may not necessarily be my direct reports. They may
be you know, sort of the chief engineer on a project,
or you know, the guy that's running something in the lab.
And the best way to make decisions is to make
sure that you have good information. It's not perfect information,
but it's good information from people who are closest to
the data.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Now, to win and keep winning, you have to keep
up the pace and keep bringing the heat over decades.
How do you keep it up for yourself? How do
you keep up your own pace? Personally?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, I like what I do. I have to say,
I really enjoy just the learning part of technology and
the learning part of being in our industry. Like I
spend a lot of time with our engineers as they're
developing products. I spend a lot of time with customers
as they're thinking about what they need next. And in
every one of those conversations, I learned something, and I
(24:35):
learned something that I can then say, hey, you know,
maybe we should do this just a little bit differently.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Going back to the guy who said AMD was deader
than dead. You proved the naysayer is wrong. That has
to feel like vindication. Do you ever just like shut
the door and go yes by yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't know that I do that, Emily.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm just imagining, imagining what might happen.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The days that are really fun are when we get
our first silicon out, Like we've been planning this product.
These products take you know, three to five years to
come to fruition, and when you get that first silicon out,
you're like, wow, that looks good. That's super fun.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So is it time for a shot in ay? Like,
how do you celebrate?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, those those aren't like after you finish
one of those days, you're like, cool, that was a
good day.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Will Intel ever be what it once was?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
First of all, I have tremendous respect for Intel as
a company, and you know, for all their leadership all
these years. I think when we look at the industry
going forward, for all of us, it's about putting out
great technology and you know, ensuring that you do that
time and time again. So you know, that's certainly you know,
our goal in life, and you know, I imagine that's
(25:47):
true of most of my.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Pure CEOs speaking of the broader ecosystem, are we at
risk of exchanging the dominance of one company Intel for
the dominance of another in Nvidia.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
When you look at the history of technology arcs, there
is no one size fits all for computing. There's no
one company that has all the answers for the breadth
of applications and problems that there are out there. And
so yeah, I think competition is a great thing. We
have just a tremendous set of applications across the industry
(26:19):
that we're trying to get solutions to. Frankly, I like
our roadmap a lot. We are very focused on being
you know, sort of the end to end AI provider
and that goes across you know, sort of the biggest
installations in the world and the cloud environments, you know,
down to what you have in your enterprise businesses to
your personal computers for example. And you know, it's a
(26:40):
huge market. Like you know, we just talked about it
at our latest Advancing AI Day. We believe it's a
five hundred billion dollar accelerator market by the time we
get to twenty twenty eight. That's huge opportunity for all
of us.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Competition may be a good thing, but do you see
this as unfair competition?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I think the key is competition is a good thing,
and from my perspective, it's a very open industry, and
so you know, our goal is to make sure that
one of the things that's very important to us sort
of AMD has some tenants. Right. Yes, we are very
focused on a great technology. We're also very focused on
an open ecosystem. And in open ecosystems, what we want
(27:20):
to do is allow people to innovate together. And we
actually think that that's a better answer.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
The US government is considering capping exports of your chips
and in vidias to other countries. Is that the right call?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
A lot of this conversation around geopolitics and you know,
sort of the importance of technology. We totally get it.
I mean, the technology that we're building is some of
the most powerful chips in the world, and so we
totally get that there's a national security element of it.
We are fortunate, we appreciate that there's a lot of
discussion between US and you know, some of the government
(27:55):
officials that are working on this. I think the right
answer is we want there to be as open a
market as possible while still taking into account the national
security interests, and it's a give and take.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
You were born in Taiwan, and I know you go
back to your hometown often. What's your favorite thing to
do when you're not visiting fabs?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You know, I really do love Taiwan. And I was
born in Taian, so it was a small city in
the southern part of Taiwan. Actually, I was just there
not too long ago to visit family. And we have
a big family, you know. My dad had like nine
siblings and my mom had like six, so it was
like a big family. So there are lots and lots
of cousins and aunts and uncles and all of that,
(28:36):
and so yeah, it's just fun to kind of be
a part of that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Taiwan manufactured ninety percent of ai servers worldwide, and obviously
it's the world's biggest producer of chips. What is it
about Taiwan that's put it in a position to have
such a profound and critical impact on the world.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I think it's decades of investment and focus. Like if
you think about the ecosystem in Taiwan around semiconductors, the
entire sort of fabulous industry was created with the idea
that there would be a foundry. You know, back whatever
twenty years ago, it was everybody had to have their
own manufacturing. And what we found is it just becomes
(29:13):
very expensive, and frankly, scale is important in semiconductors, so
it became very expensive if you want to do it yourself,
and you could do it better with contract manufacturing and foundryes.
So Timeline Semiconductor has perfected the model of a shared
service for all of us who are great design companies.
And yeah, they've done a great job.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Tension between the US and China doesn't appear to be
diffusing anytime soon. Could the US efforts to cut off
China backfire and lead the Chinese chip industry to lead
by default.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
When we look at the global ecosystem, there's a tremendous
amount of investment that's going into semiconductors everywhere. And that's
true in the US, that's true in Europe, that's true,
you know, in China, and overall. I think the way
to stay ahead, frankly is to con tinue to invest,
to continue to push the bleeding edge. That's certainly what
we're doing. You know. The key there is when you
(30:06):
look at it. The amount of innovation that happens when
you have a open ecosystem and when you have an
open environment is tremendous. And so again we're big proponents
of that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But if the ecosystem doesn't stay open, I guess I
wonder could that push China to push harder for Taiwan's independence?
And do you worry about that, Like, do you worry
about the future of Taiwan?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Well, I would say we all worry about ensuring that
there is resiliency in the supply chain. So put China
and Taiwan aside. I mean, you can say that about anyone,
like if you had concentration in any particular region, like
for example, a few years ago, we had a big
storm in Texas and like things are out for like
a few days. That's geographic concentration that you want to
(30:55):
make sure that there's resiliency for. And so yes, we
always think about how do we get resiliency for the
supply chain as one of the many, many things that
we have to think about.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I know you've moved some of AMG's chip production to
the TSMC's fab in Arizona. Do you think manufacturing of
chips will ever move back to the US in a
meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I think some will. Yeah. Look, I'm a big proponent
of the Chips Act. I think it's again a recognition
of how important semiconductors are. I think both on the
manufacturing side and on the R and D side, the
Chips Act has been good to remind everyone that you
investing in a resilient supply chain is a good thing.
So we're never going to get to the place where
(31:33):
everything is done in the US, but we can certainly
get to a place where there's a good amount of
manufacturing capability in the US well.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And as you said, for the last several decades, everyone
has thought software is sexy? Is it Hardware's time again?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Where should kids be going?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Kids should absolutely look at how they can change the world.
And you can change the world in hardware.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Okay, why do you think you can change the world
in hardware?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Why we just see what we're building. We're seeing what
we're building, Like everywhere you turn, it's powered by technology.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Okay, I have to ask this question. People are kind
of obsessed with the fact that you and Jensen are
distant cousins. I know that you are competitors, but do
you ever tread notes? Do you ever check in on
at family dinners?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Well, first of all, Jensen is brilliant, so I fully
admire him for that. We were really distant, so we
didn't grow up together. We actually met at an industry event,
so it wasn't until we were well into our careers
and we see each other at industry events. Look, there
are lots of places where some conductor CEOs show up
(32:40):
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So no family dinners.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Just to put the rumor to rest, no family dinners.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Okay, it is a juicy coincidence.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, it is an interesting coincidence.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Nobody gets here without a village. And I saw that
you mentioned your husband Dan would be with you on
your perfect day. I know my husband is, you know,
my cheerleader, my biggest supporter, my life producer, in addition
to my amazing show producers. Lauren, how has your husband
impacted your career?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I've been really lucky throughout sort of life to have
people who are just so super supportive. I mean, you know,
starting from my parents, who besides asking me to get
a PhD, just have been super supportive of just career ambition,
all of that. And you know I was very lucky
when I met Dan to meet someone who was just
(33:28):
equally supportive and his view on the world is he
loves our products as much as I love our products.
Like he's always talking to me about what's going on,
like how's that product development going. He attends all of
our launch events, and yeah, at the end of the day,
it feels good because it's something that we share. We
share this love of technology, and he shares a real
(33:49):
passion for the work that we do.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's so sweet. Everyone's curious about the habits of super
successful leaders. What are your go tos? Like, what's in
your daily routine?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
What's in my daily routine this morning, I was up
at six thirty boxing, So that's in the daily routine?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yes, yes, right. You need to have energy when you
start a morning.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And a day is either you know, here in the office,
or it's on the road. I spend a lot of
time on the road, a lot of time with customers,
a lot of time with partners. But when I'm here
in Austin, it's a good day. It's a good day
to sleep in your own bed, it's a good day
to check in on how projects are going.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What's your happy place?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
My happy place? What is my happy place? I know
you like to golf. I do like to golf. My
happy place is spending time with family, with teams. Playing
golf is a great thing. I don't get to play enough,
that's the problem. That's the problem. It gets hot in Texas,
(34:46):
so only get to play certain ones of the year.
But yeah, those are all great things.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
If you were twenty years old, what advice would you
give yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Dream big? Like ambition is a great thing, Dream big
and chart your path.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
What's left to achieve at AMD? What are your targets?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Oh, Emily, we're just getting started. I mean, wow, what's
left to achieve? Look, we are in just an amazing
time for technology, and I truly believe that we're at
this inflection point where technology becomes even more personal and
more pervasive, more part of each of our lives, and
(35:26):
we're at the center of that. So there's so much
left to do, and it's primarily around you making this
end to end AI vision a reality that everyone can
touch and feel and be a part of.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
What else do you want to accomplish in the world
aside from making am D succeed?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
You know, there are lots of things I'm passionate about
the next generation of leadership. I was very lucky in
my career. People paid attention and you know, gave me opportunities.
I believe that's part of my job as well. There
should be more women in technology. I think there are more.
Like we've made a lot of progress over the last
number of years, but there's a lot more to do.
So I'm pretty passionate about that. I'm passionate about technology
(36:09):
for good and using technology in ways to make our
lives better. Like, I really believe there's an opportunity in
the intersection of healthcare and technology when I think about
patient care and medical discoveries and opportunities there, like these
industries can come closer together. And so those are those
are some things that I think about.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I know you said we're making progress on the women
in technology thing, but sometimes it feels like we're going
backwards too. It's like three steps forward, two steps back,
two steps forward, three steps back. Why do you think
it's important that people know that you can be a
badass woman's CEO.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You can do that well. I don't think it's three
steps forward, two steps backward. I think it's perhaps one
step forward when we would hope that we're doing three
or five steps forward. So that's what I would say. Look,
we are definitely making progress. I mean, there are a
lot of you know, great women out there. You know,
one of the organizations you're very passionate about is the
(37:08):
Global Semiconductor Association has a women's Leadership initiative. They've done
amazing things. We've had hundreds of women get together and
network and just give each other both mentoring opportunities, tips, networking,
just knowing that somebody else is out there. So my
point is progress is being made. Sure it's not fast enough,
(37:30):
but why is it important. You know, at the end
of the day, to do great things, you need to
have the best people in the room. And the best
people in the room are men and women, So you
want to make sure that there's good representation for that.
One of the things that we've seen at AMD is like,
I'm really passionate about having more women technical leaders. And
you know, men and women are different, and so you
have to coach them differently and give them different advice.
(37:52):
But at the end of the day, all you can
do is create opportunities and let people shine in those moments.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
What barriers do you feel like you fain personally and
how did you overcome them that maybe we could learn from.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I would say I was very lucky throughout my career.
But one of the things that I learned along the
way is again, men and women are different. Like, for example,
when I was earlier in my career, I was actually
quite shy, quite shy meeting like you didn't necessarily speak
up in rooms full of people who had twenty years
more experience than you did. Like I was like the
(38:26):
young kid right walking into a room in you know,
IBM's TJ. Watson Research Center with these brilliant people. And
what I learned is you should feel pretty confident in
yourself in your ability to add. And I got great
opportunities to do that, right. I got a chance to
work on, you know, some of the latest and greatest,
most important technologies when I was two years out of college.
(38:47):
And that built a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So what's the lastson in there?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Have confidence in yourself, take a chance, don't worry about failure,
sit in those meeting rooms and say what's on your
mind and volunteer. Sure, I give people this advice a lot.
I was given this advice when I was a young engineer.
Run towards problems. And what does that mean? Run towards problems?
It means, Look, we're all going to work really hard
(39:10):
every day. You might as well work really hard on
something that is really important. And so look for that
hardest problem to solve and volunteer to help because you're
going to learn a lot in the process. You're going
to distinguish yourself. And what's the worst thing that's going
to happen? Do you make a mistake? Okay, fine, get up.
The next day is another day, and you will have
learned so much in that process. And thank you for
(39:32):
paving the way.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Honestly. Last question, why do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I want my legacy to be that we have built
transformational technology. All right, well at work? Thank you, fantastic,
Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to this edition
of the Circuit.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You can catch the full episode on Bloomberg Originals and YouTube.
I'm Emily Chang, follow me on x and Instagram at
Emily Chang tv. And you can watch new episodes of
the Circuit on Bloomberg Television, stream on the Bloomberg app
or YouTube, and let us know what you think. Leave
a review. Those extra reviews really make a difference. I'm
your host and executive producer. Our senior producer is Lauren Ellis.
(40:10):
Our editor is Alison Casey. Thanks for listening.
Host
Emily Chang
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