May 30, 2024 • 26 mins
YouTube is now the biggest streamer in the world, winning the battle for eyeballs against competitors like Netflix, Hulu, Disney and Max. Now, the entertainment giant is eyeing up its next frontier: the living room. YouTube CEO Neal Mohan sits down with Emily Chang to discuss the platform’s growth strategy, keeping the creator economy afloat and how it is cracking down on AI generated content.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Emily Chang, and this is the circuit, all right.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So here we are one of the elephants.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
And cool thing about these guys spent it's that they
have really, really, really long from and that's that's.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Cool list.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
And that's pretty much all this to say.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
That was the very first video uploaded to YouTube when
the website launched nearly two decades ago. It's now got
over three hundred million views and the platform has become
one of the world's most influential media companies. Today YouTube
is even bigger than Netflix.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I've been working with YouTube even before either I or
YouTube were part of Google, when it was above you know,
pieces of Parlor right down the street here in San Mateo,
and so I have really seen that journey really kind
of from me at the zoo to what it's become today.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
YouTube CEO Neil Mohan took the rains from Susan Lejitski
in February twenty twenty three years he served as YouTube's
Chief product officer and is largely credited with expanding the
platform services. Amidst the rise of cord cutting, our.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Top creators have grown their watch time on living room
screens by something on the order of four hundred percent
in the last year, a couple of years or so,
and so we're seeing enormous growth. And it really comes
down to the fact that people come home, they sit
down on their couch, and they turn on YouTube and
they want to consume all the content that they know
and love on it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Just over a year into the top job, Mohan is
now tasked with taking YouTube to new heights, all while
dealing with the unprecedented challenges of AI and keeping the
world's largest creator economy afloat. Joining me on this episode
of The Circuit, YouTube CEO Neil Mohan.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You're now a year into the top job.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
What is it more than a third of the planet
is already watching YouTube?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
How do you plan to make it even bigger?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We've got a couple billion people that come to the platform,
come to YouTube every single day. Really, the way I
think about it is, you know, YouTube's really kind of
its own sort of unique thing. We're not a social
media platform, we're not traditional media in the sense, we're
not linear television. We're really sort of our own thing.
And so what that means for me is staying focused
(02:18):
on what we do best, which is a place to create, share,
and watch video no matter where you are in the world,
no matter what screen you're on, and that can be
everything from a fifteen second short to a fifteen minute
traditional vod on YouTube, to a fifteen hour live stream
and everything in between. And so if we live up
to that vision, we think we're really still in the
(02:39):
early days of our growth story and fulfilling what our
mission is, which is to give everyone a voice and
show them the world.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Based on Nielsen's latest data, YouTube is now by far
the biggest streamer in the world, Netflix close behind, and
then everybody else drops way down, Hulu, Disney, Max, Apple.
You don't get the awards or the critical acclaim. What
more does YouTube have to prove?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, I would say that certainly from a viewer standpoint,
what they care about is everything that I just mentioned,
which is all of their favorite content in one place.
When you sit down on the couch and you turn
on YouTube, you expect your favorite creator, to your favorite
sports highlight, all of that in one place, and so
it's less about sort of the accolades around that. And
(03:25):
I do think that YouTube is getting recognized as that
platform on television screens. We just surpassed a billion hours
of watch time on living room screens, and you mentioned
the Nielsen ratings. That is certainly something that when I
speak to our advertising partners, the brands that look to
build connections with consumers on our platform, they recognize that
and they see it as a place not just of
(03:46):
this broad reach you know, the number one streaming platform
here in the US, but also reach that is engaged
and from a brand's perspective, that is something that they
are really recognizing. Like I said, it's still the early
days of our journey, but I do start to hear
that more and more from our partners.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
YouTube is printing money for Google, as I understand it,
upwards of fifteen billion dollars a year. Where will the
future revenue growth come from. Talk to us about that
strategy and how it will play in.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
If you think about YouTube today compared to what YouTube
was five years ago or certainly ten years ago, there
are an order of magnitude more creators on our platform.
We have a breadth of monetization offerings to support this
creator economy, not just ads, but subscription business. You know
that was the fifteen billion dollars subscription business across all
of Google, but also direct to fan funding like channel
(04:38):
memberships and things like that. So there's an enormous amount
of scale and complexity in the ecosystem that requires us
to rethink how we're going to support that creator ecosystem.
But the goal is the same, which is to make
our creators successful on our platform in terms of building
an audience, but also being able to earn a sustainable
(04:58):
living from our platform. One of the things that I'm
most proud of is that we are the world's original
and largest creator economy. We've paid out seventy billion dollars
to creators, media companies, musicians, and artists over the last
three years, and that's something that we are very proud
of here at YouTube.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Google's ad business is a monster thanks in part to you.
I mean, you obviously came in and double click in
the early days and your roots are in the ad business.
But also it's started controversy about privacy and tracking. What
are some of the lessons that you've taken from that
that you're applying.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
To YouTube what we are building for all of us
as users of the platform, because ultimately, it is that
connection between fans and viewers and creators that is what's
ultimately attractive to advertisers. So if you're not focused on
that connection between creators and fans, everything that you're doing
from an advertiser standpoint is sort of mood. So that's
(05:52):
the first thing. The second is that monetization, building advertising
products and therefore being able to monetize all this amazing
on YouTube is a long term game. We're going through
that journey, for example, right now in terms of shorts,
monetization and actually making shorts a platform that is not
just a great place to build an audience, but to
also build a business. And so that's probably the second
(06:14):
thing that I've learned, and the third spending lots of
time with brands and advertisers and agencies is really focusing
on innovation that we could bring to the products that
they use to engage with their consumers on our platform.
That is a big area of investment that we work
on in very close partnerships with our ads colleagues across Google.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
So you've been at Google for fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
You joined when YouTube was best known for cat videos,
and now you're carrying the Super Bowl. Did you ever
imagine YouTube would be carrying the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I've always felt that YouTube is a great place for fans.
I happen to be a huge sports fan myself, and
so really since almost the very early days of YouTube,
it's been a place where I personally was consuming highlights
and more in depth interviews and things like that. We
just concluded season one of NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube
(07:09):
and it really brought together, I think, kind of two
or three really key things that are unique to YouTube
about that live sports experience, like ease of use, great features,
so product innovation, and most importantly, I would say, actually
bringing together creators and that live sports content all in
one place, especially for young people.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
So ESPN, Fox, Warner Brothers are all teaming up to
do a sports streaming app.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
How fiercely will YouTube compete for sports rights?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We just concluded season one of NFL Sunday Ticket. We're
already deep in the planning for season two. New features,
new capabilities, new creator collaborations that we're going to bring
for our fans that I'm super super excited about. So
I have my hands full with making that incredible experience
for our fans. But what I will say is we've
been working with the sports leagues for a very long time.
(07:58):
The NFL, the NBA Baseball leagues really all over the
world to have their highlights live games in many cases
like Polystyle and Brazil. And so we've been working on
live content sports, highlight content creator collaborations with sports for
well over a decade, and all of that is going
to continue.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
YouTube has paid out seventy billion dollars to creators over
the last three years. That's even more than Netflix is
spending on content. Break that number down for.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Us, just to give you a little bit more sort
of sense of the scale of it. We have three
million creators in our YPP program, so that is millions
of creators literally earning a living on our platform. Most
of that is generated through advertising. Advertising is our primary business,
but increasingly our spot business, our subscriptions business, of which
(08:47):
there's two flavors, has grown to be a very meaningful
part of our business as well, and so that's YouTube
music and premium is in that number as well, but
we also obviously have a YouTube TV subscription business. And
then the bucket that also gives creators choice in terms
of how they earn a living on our platform is
something that we call fan funding, and that is the
(09:08):
ability to earn revenue directly from your fans, and so
it's really all three of those buckets AVA, S, FOD
and fan funding, direct to consumer that generate revenue for
our creators, and.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
It's paying off or time will tell.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Our business is successful when our creator's business is successful.
And so we are really pleased with the size of
the creator economy. But I also remind our teams every
day that we're still in the very early journey of
what this could grow and become.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Now YouTube's algorithm can make or break a creator's future.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Take us inside the black.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Box just a little. How does it work and why
does it change all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, the simplest way to think about the recommendations that
you see in your feed, whether it's the home feed
or on the watch page, is it is really a
reflection of your interests as a viewer. So when I
open up my feed, it is going to have sports
in there, it's going to have music in there, it's
going to have some creators that I'm watching in there.
And so the quote unquote algorithm really is just a
(10:07):
reflection back of your personalized interest as a viewer. And
so when it's changing, it's changing in the sense of
reflecting back your interests or your personalized history of what
you were watching on our platform. And that is the
simplest way that I can really describe, you know, it's
(10:29):
you know.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So it's our fault. The algorithm keeps changing.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well because you know, our interests as viewers continues to change. Now, obviously,
we are also trying to continue to improve that experience
for our viewers and help creators get discovered, and so
we're not sitting still there. There's an enormous amount of innovation.
You know, AI is such a buzzword in our industry today.
(10:52):
But one of the areas where we've been investing very
heavily in AI for around a decade is actually in
those recommendations that you see when you open up the
YouTube app, the.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Mister Beast effect. It seems like everyone's trying to copy him. Now,
do you worry at all about the homogenization of YouTube?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I personally don't worry about that, and the reason is because,
you know, obviously, Jimmy is an incredibly successful creator on
our platform. He is true innovator in terms of content,
in terms of building that engagement with an audience. He's
got an enormous audience on our platform. There are lots
of creators obviously that try to learn from his success.
But there are five hundred hours of content uploaded to
(11:31):
our platform every single day, every niche interest, every learning
pursuit that you want to have, every musical genre. So
in terms of being able to find, you know, the
particular niche that you're interested in in that moment that
you're interested in, I'm never worried about it being you know,
homogeneous across all of YouTube.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
A bunch of powerful YouTubers announced recently they were quitting
the platform.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, some of them say they're burned out.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Some of them say, you know, they can't deal with
the algorithm and all the time changes.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
What do you have to say to some of those people?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
And I think there's this feeling that you're pushing out
some of the more homespun creators for more flashy content.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I would say the way I look at it is
it's almost sort of a natural evolution given how long
YouTube has been around, and I've had my own history
with YouTube. I've been working with YouTube even before either
I or YouTube were part of Google, when it was
above you know, a piece of parlor right down the
street here in San mateo, and so I have really
seen that journey really kind of from me at the
(12:31):
zoo to what it's become today. And I would say
a couple things. First of all, everybody's decision in terms
of what they choose to do really is a personal one.
I know lots of creators who've chosen to either take
a break or perhaps move to different sorts of pursuits.
Some of them have moved from in front of the
camera to behind the camera. Some of them have moved
(12:51):
to grow different types of businesses out of their YouTube experience.
And I think all of that is actually a natural evolution,
but actually also really great because it's a decision that
they were able to make based on their success on
our platform. And so that's how I've seen that. You know,
it's natural for someone who's been doing something for coming
(13:12):
up on two decades to think about perhaps something else
that they might want to do, and so it really
is a personal choice.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Broadly, shorts does seem to be YouTube's answer to TikTok?
Is it working or are you cannibalizing the og?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
YouTube has to be a place for creators where they
can do, again a fifteen second short or a fifteen
hour live stream, and we have all of those creators
on our platform, and so our investment in shorts is
something that I'm very excited about. We have seventy billion
views a day on the platform. You know, the number
of creators uploading shorts has grown fifty percent year on year.
We are in a monetization journey where every single month
(13:50):
for the last year since launching our monetization program on shorts,
creator's earnings have grown every single month. So lots and
lots of success around shorts, but it's still very, very
early days.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Screen Time is the number one thing parents seem to
be dealing with right now, and studies are showing that
screen time is linked to mental health issues and kids
as young as three.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Like we're talking about anxiety depression. As a dad, how
do you grapple with these issues.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's a great question. In our home. My wife and
I talk about this on a regular basis. We have,
you know, kids across a broad range, and I think,
first of all, obviously every household has to make their
own decisions about these things. The second, I do think
that they're at least in our household, we make different
decisions depending on the age and development of all three
(14:38):
of our kids. Back to your point on screen time,
personalized ads is not something that we allow for under eighteens.
Uploading videos is default private, right, So those types of things,
the screen time settings are set on by default actually
for even in that case, and so that's sort of
how we deal with it.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
It's almost like kids, I mean, kids are spending billions
of hours on YouTube. It's almost like the default babysitter.
Do you think about that responsibility?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think about it on a daily basis, And it
starts with those principles which get baked into our products, YouTube,
Kids Supervisors Experiences, even the main app for under eighteens.
But it doesn't stop there. It's about also the policies
that govern the content that should be allowed for young people.
So we've always had very strong policies around wellbeing of
(15:23):
young people, obviously very strong policies around eating disorders and
self harm and that type of content. But it's not
just about what content comes down from the platform. It
is also how our recommendation algorithms think about that. And
the third thing which sometimes gets overlooked but I think
is really important, is also having a set of guidelines
(15:44):
that we provide to the creative community about content that
is appropriate for kids of all ages. Importantly, for all
of these buckets, we really do work with a large
stable of experts, so child wellbeing experts, child develop and experts,
children's media experts, and this group of outside advisors really
(16:06):
gives us advice on all of these things, our products,
our content policies, our creator guidelines, and so it's an
ongoing process. We're not perfect by any means, but it's
a lot of this that goes into the products that
the young people in your household experience every day.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Artificial intelligence is clearly going to have a powerful impact
on all platforms.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
How will AI change YouTube?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I feel that YouTube is uniquely positioned in one very
specific way when it comes to artificial intelligence. Of course,
we are a technology company. We have lots of engineers
that work here building all the products that we have
been talking about, and so we have a deep investment
in artificial intelligence going back years and years. Everything from
the way that we recommend content, all the work that
(16:51):
we do to protect users on our platform from bad actors,
bad content, etc. That has borne out through heavy investment
in AI. But we're also a creative company. We're a
platform where creators come every day to share their ideas,
share their amazing work with their fans all over the world.
So bringing together the best of AI and using it
(17:12):
to really empower human creativity is how I think you're
going to see it show up on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
You've got a new tool now that requires users to
disclose when they're using AI generated content.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
But why put that responsibility on users? Shouldn't you two
be making that distinction.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, the person who's going to know best that they
have used either artificial intelligence, and by the way, it's
not just about purely artificial intelligence, and creators do have
a responsibility when they're uploading content and building an audience
on YouTube to disclose that, and so that's what we believe.
It is also our responsibility to put that in front
of users, and so that will be a requirement of
(17:52):
our creators, but we will build systems to also be
able to do our best at detecting that. That's an
area of investment for us. It's built on our existing
policies and principles around content and our platform.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
So you're also going to flag videos that you notice
have AI involved that or maybe don't disclose.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It and users can flag those videos as well. And so,
just like for the rest of our content policies, if
a user notices something that this is actually deceptive in
this particular way, users can flag that and we use
those user flags to actually make policy decisions. In this case,
the decision would be applying a label to that content.
And so that's one approach, but that's really only one
(18:32):
approach by which we're thinking about living up to our
responsibility in this really rapidly changing world powered by AI.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Well, talk about rapidly changing.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
What was your reaction when you saw open ais Ora
demo the technology.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
What's really amazing about this and our teams talk about
this in our product reviews on a regular basis, is
that there are new developments that are happening almost on
a weekly, monthly sort of basis. And when I think
about again, just from a YouTube perspective, the way that
you should expect AI to manifest itself in the product
is through creator tools, and as a creator, honestly, whether
(19:10):
they're powered by AI or not is sort of besides
the point. They should allow you to do things that
otherwise you could only imagine in the past, or something
that might have taken you nine weeks to do, maybe
you can do in like nine minutes or nine seconds.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Open ai Cto Mira Marati was asked what data was
used to train Sora, and she didn't give a clear answer.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Do you believe that YouTube was used to train SOA.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well, I don't know. I think first you would have
to you know, I guess they were asked, but you
know you'd have to ask them. I have seen reports
that it may or may not have been used. I
have no information myself, and so I'd encourage you to
ask them directly if it was.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Being used, Would that be against your policy?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
It would be. We have a clear terms of service
that when a creator uploads their hard work to our platform,
they have certain expectations. One of those expectations is that
the terms of service is going to be abided by.
And our terms of service does allow for some YouTube
content like the title of a video or the channel
name or the creator's name to be scraped, because that's
(20:20):
how you enable the open Web for that content to
show up and maybe show up in other search engines
or what have you, and be available that way. But
it does not allow for things like transcripts or video
bits to be downloaded, and that is a clear violation
of our toss. And so those are the rules of
the road in terms of content on our platform, and how.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Does it work internally? Is Google using YouTube to train Gemini?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Google uses YouTube content really in accordance again back with
those terms of service or individual contracts that we might
have with creators or uploaders to our platform. As you know,
lots of creators have different sort of licensing contracts in
terms of their con our platform. Lots of rights holders do,
and so some portion of that YouTube Corpus maybe being
(21:05):
used for those models, but it's going to be in
concert with whatever the terms of service or the contract
that that creator is signed before uploading their content to YouTube.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
And how is.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
YouTube working with creators to make sure their IP is
protected and that they get paid for it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
A lot of it does start with our core terms
of service and what the rules there are in terms
of how their content can be used, how it shouldn't
be getting scraped, et cetera. So that's an important part
of our efforts there. But I would take a step
back and say that as we're thinking about how AI
technology is going to show up on the YouTube platform,
(21:40):
it's going to go back to the core mission, which
is it's ultimately about making creators successful on our platform,
building magical experiences for our viewers.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
When I first saw SOA, I was definitely taken it back,
like misinformation is already rampant. Are we staring down the
barrel of a future where we won't know what's real.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
And what's fake? Is this the end of truth as
we know it?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I would say that we have to have two key
aspects of our approach here versus. This technology is here.
We can't hide from this technology, and I am all
of my experience in terms of these types of big
paradigm shifts, whether it was the birth of the Internet
or that shift from desktop to mobile, is that it's
going to lead to many, many amazing opportunities. Having said that,
(22:28):
this is also technology that, if it's in the hands
of bad actors, will reduce the cost of producing, in
your example, deep fakes or misinformation to zero or very
close to zero. So we have to be cognizant of that.
AI is going to play a really big role in
actually detecting that type of content, but also all the
amazing trained professionals we have all over the world that
(22:49):
are reviewing this content. So all of those things have
to come in together.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
It's a record election year, more than half the world
is voting. How is Google going to ensure fair information
and free election, especially in the age of AI.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
We have a new policy in place that is requiring
labeling of this sort of content. We won't just stop there.
When people are looking for election related information on our platform.
We raise up content that comes from channels that have
a history of authority, and again authority not determined by me,
but by third party raiders all over the world that
(23:25):
evaluate content from these channels, So content from authoritative sources.
We have an intelligence desk, and we have a capability,
a Google wide capability, the Threat Analysis group that is
looking for coordinated deceptive practices, state actor deceptive practices that
might be using some of this technology. And finally, this
(23:46):
is all based on a foundation of actually having policies
in place that make sure that YouTube isn't a place
for content that violates our election integrity policy. Our hate
speech policies are harmful, criminal conspiracy policies, So all of
those things have to come in to affect to make
sure that we are a place where people can have
open discourse around politics and elections, because YouTube is an
(24:09):
open platform where a lot of that electoral process plays out,
but also one where we're doing our best to make
sure that this type of technology doesn't allow for misinformation
to get distributed.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
I hear that you're the kind of leader that you
know you keep cool.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
In a crisis.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
What does it take to do that, especially at a
company like YouTube where you know there's a lot going
on on the platform every day.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know, my wife jokes that my nickname is even
Keel Neil, and that's just kind of how I've I've
always been so u It's you know, I think from
my standpoint, it's about keeping perspective, the bigger picture in mind,
and I think that when it comes to those types
of difficult moments in terms of operating our business, what
I really try to fall back to are always first principles,
(24:54):
because those difficult moments always involve making trade offs between
really really tough choices, and so being grounded in a
set of core principles about what truly is important for
the business, what's right for our users, allows me to
stay calm and actually help the teams make those types
of decisions.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
So where does even Keel Neil want YouTube to be
in five years.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I want to be a place where we are the
best place to create, to share, to watch a video,
regardless of where you are in the world or what
device you're on ours. That's my vision. That's the vision
for YouTube. A couple of just concrete examples are We've
talked about living room growth, so that is a big
(25:36):
area where I think we're in the very early days
of the growth journey around YouTube and living rooms all
over the world. We've talked about creation, AI powered creation,
the fact that we have these supercomputers in our pockets,
in our phones, so participatory creation, especially for younger audiences,
all of us being creators. We're in the really really
(25:57):
early days of that as well. And so those are
kind of two really big trends that I see growing
over the next five years.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Thank you. That was awesome. I really appreciate it. Don't
forget to like and subscribe.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I'm Emily Chang. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Emily Chang TV. You can watch new episodes of the
Circuit on Bloomberg Television or on demand by downloading the
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check out other Bloomberg podcasts on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartMedia app, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to your shows, and let us
know what you think by leaving a review. They really
(26:31):
make a difference. I'm your host and executive producer. Our
senior producers are Lauren Ellis and Alan Jeffries. Our editor
is Alison Casey. Catch you next time.
I'm Emily Chang, and this is the circuit, all right.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So here we are one of the elephants.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
And cool thing about these guys spent it's that they
have really, really, really long from and that's that's.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Cool list.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
And that's pretty much all this to say.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
That was the very first video uploaded to YouTube when
the website launched nearly two decades ago. It's now got
over three hundred million views and the platform has become
one of the world's most influential media companies. Today YouTube
is even bigger than Netflix.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I've been working with YouTube even before either I or
YouTube were part of Google, when it was above you know,
pieces of Parlor right down the street here in San Mateo,
and so I have really seen that journey really kind
of from me at the zoo to what it's become today.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
YouTube CEO Neil Mohan took the rains from Susan Lejitski
in February twenty twenty three years he served as YouTube's
Chief product officer and is largely credited with expanding the
platform services. Amidst the rise of cord cutting, our.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Top creators have grown their watch time on living room
screens by something on the order of four hundred percent
in the last year, a couple of years or so,
and so we're seeing enormous growth. And it really comes
down to the fact that people come home, they sit
down on their couch, and they turn on YouTube and
they want to consume all the content that they know
and love on it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Just over a year into the top job, Mohan is
now tasked with taking YouTube to new heights, all while
dealing with the unprecedented challenges of AI and keeping the
world's largest creator economy afloat. Joining me on this episode
of The Circuit, YouTube CEO Neil Mohan.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You're now a year into the top job.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
What is it more than a third of the planet
is already watching YouTube?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
How do you plan to make it even bigger?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We've got a couple billion people that come to the platform,
come to YouTube every single day. Really, the way I
think about it is, you know, YouTube's really kind of
its own sort of unique thing. We're not a social
media platform, we're not traditional media in the sense, we're
not linear television. We're really sort of our own thing.
And so what that means for me is staying focused
(02:18):
on what we do best, which is a place to create, share,
and watch video no matter where you are in the world,
no matter what screen you're on, and that can be
everything from a fifteen second short to a fifteen minute
traditional vod on YouTube, to a fifteen hour live stream
and everything in between. And so if we live up
to that vision, we think we're really still in the
(02:39):
early days of our growth story and fulfilling what our
mission is, which is to give everyone a voice and
show them the world.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Based on Nielsen's latest data, YouTube is now by far
the biggest streamer in the world, Netflix close behind, and
then everybody else drops way down, Hulu, Disney, Max, Apple.
You don't get the awards or the critical acclaim. What
more does YouTube have to prove?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, I would say that certainly from a viewer standpoint,
what they care about is everything that I just mentioned,
which is all of their favorite content in one place.
When you sit down on the couch and you turn
on YouTube, you expect your favorite creator, to your favorite
sports highlight, all of that in one place, and so
it's less about sort of the accolades around that. And
(03:25):
I do think that YouTube is getting recognized as that
platform on television screens. We just surpassed a billion hours
of watch time on living room screens, and you mentioned
the Nielsen ratings. That is certainly something that when I
speak to our advertising partners, the brands that look to
build connections with consumers on our platform, they recognize that
and they see it as a place not just of
(03:46):
this broad reach you know, the number one streaming platform
here in the US, but also reach that is engaged
and from a brand's perspective, that is something that they
are really recognizing. Like I said, it's still the early
days of our journey, but I do start to hear
that more and more from our partners.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
YouTube is printing money for Google, as I understand it,
upwards of fifteen billion dollars a year. Where will the
future revenue growth come from. Talk to us about that
strategy and how it will play in.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
If you think about YouTube today compared to what YouTube
was five years ago or certainly ten years ago, there
are an order of magnitude more creators on our platform.
We have a breadth of monetization offerings to support this
creator economy, not just ads, but subscription business. You know
that was the fifteen billion dollars subscription business across all
of Google, but also direct to fan funding like channel
(04:38):
memberships and things like that. So there's an enormous amount
of scale and complexity in the ecosystem that requires us
to rethink how we're going to support that creator ecosystem.
But the goal is the same, which is to make
our creators successful on our platform in terms of building
an audience, but also being able to earn a sustainable
(04:58):
living from our platform. One of the things that I'm
most proud of is that we are the world's original
and largest creator economy. We've paid out seventy billion dollars
to creators, media companies, musicians, and artists over the last
three years, and that's something that we are very proud
of here at YouTube.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Google's ad business is a monster thanks in part to you.
I mean, you obviously came in and double click in
the early days and your roots are in the ad business.
But also it's started controversy about privacy and tracking. What
are some of the lessons that you've taken from that
that you're applying.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
To YouTube what we are building for all of us
as users of the platform, because ultimately, it is that
connection between fans and viewers and creators that is what's
ultimately attractive to advertisers. So if you're not focused on
that connection between creators and fans, everything that you're doing
from an advertiser standpoint is sort of mood. So that's
(05:52):
the first thing. The second is that monetization, building advertising
products and therefore being able to monetize all this amazing
on YouTube is a long term game. We're going through
that journey, for example, right now in terms of shorts,
monetization and actually making shorts a platform that is not
just a great place to build an audience, but to
also build a business. And so that's probably the second
(06:14):
thing that I've learned, and the third spending lots of
time with brands and advertisers and agencies is really focusing
on innovation that we could bring to the products that
they use to engage with their consumers on our platform.
That is a big area of investment that we work
on in very close partnerships with our ads colleagues across Google.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
So you've been at Google for fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
You joined when YouTube was best known for cat videos,
and now you're carrying the Super Bowl. Did you ever
imagine YouTube would be carrying the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I've always felt that YouTube is a great place for fans.
I happen to be a huge sports fan myself, and
so really since almost the very early days of YouTube,
it's been a place where I personally was consuming highlights
and more in depth interviews and things like that. We
just concluded season one of NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube
(07:09):
and it really brought together, I think, kind of two
or three really key things that are unique to YouTube
about that live sports experience, like ease of use, great features,
so product innovation, and most importantly, I would say, actually
bringing together creators and that live sports content all in
one place, especially for young people.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
So ESPN, Fox, Warner Brothers are all teaming up to
do a sports streaming app.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
How fiercely will YouTube compete for sports rights?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We just concluded season one of NFL Sunday Ticket. We're
already deep in the planning for season two. New features,
new capabilities, new creator collaborations that we're going to bring
for our fans that I'm super super excited about. So
I have my hands full with making that incredible experience
for our fans. But what I will say is we've
been working with the sports leagues for a very long time.
(07:58):
The NFL, the NBA Baseball leagues really all over the
world to have their highlights live games in many cases
like Polystyle and Brazil. And so we've been working on
live content sports, highlight content creator collaborations with sports for
well over a decade, and all of that is going
to continue.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
YouTube has paid out seventy billion dollars to creators over
the last three years. That's even more than Netflix is
spending on content. Break that number down for.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Us, just to give you a little bit more sort
of sense of the scale of it. We have three
million creators in our YPP program, so that is millions
of creators literally earning a living on our platform. Most
of that is generated through advertising. Advertising is our primary business,
but increasingly our spot business, our subscriptions business, of which
(08:47):
there's two flavors, has grown to be a very meaningful
part of our business as well, and so that's YouTube
music and premium is in that number as well, but
we also obviously have a YouTube TV subscription business. And
then the bucket that also gives creators choice in terms
of how they earn a living on our platform is
something that we call fan funding, and that is the
(09:08):
ability to earn revenue directly from your fans, and so
it's really all three of those buckets AVA, S, FOD
and fan funding, direct to consumer that generate revenue for
our creators, and.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
It's paying off or time will tell.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Our business is successful when our creator's business is successful.
And so we are really pleased with the size of
the creator economy. But I also remind our teams every
day that we're still in the very early journey of
what this could grow and become.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Now YouTube's algorithm can make or break a creator's future.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Take us inside the black.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Box just a little. How does it work and why
does it change all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, the simplest way to think about the recommendations that
you see in your feed, whether it's the home feed
or on the watch page, is it is really a
reflection of your interests as a viewer. So when I
open up my feed, it is going to have sports
in there, it's going to have music in there, it's
going to have some creators that I'm watching in there.
And so the quote unquote algorithm really is just a
(10:07):
reflection back of your personalized interest as a viewer. And
so when it's changing, it's changing in the sense of
reflecting back your interests or your personalized history of what
you were watching on our platform. And that is the
simplest way that I can really describe, you know, it's
(10:29):
you know.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So it's our fault. The algorithm keeps changing.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well because you know, our interests as viewers continues to change. Now, obviously,
we are also trying to continue to improve that experience
for our viewers and help creators get discovered, and so
we're not sitting still there. There's an enormous amount of innovation.
You know, AI is such a buzzword in our industry today.
(10:52):
But one of the areas where we've been investing very
heavily in AI for around a decade is actually in
those recommendations that you see when you open up the
YouTube app, the.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Mister Beast effect. It seems like everyone's trying to copy him. Now,
do you worry at all about the homogenization of YouTube?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I personally don't worry about that, and the reason is because,
you know, obviously, Jimmy is an incredibly successful creator on
our platform. He is true innovator in terms of content,
in terms of building that engagement with an audience. He's
got an enormous audience on our platform. There are lots
of creators obviously that try to learn from his success.
But there are five hundred hours of content uploaded to
(11:31):
our platform every single day, every niche interest, every learning
pursuit that you want to have, every musical genre. So
in terms of being able to find, you know, the
particular niche that you're interested in in that moment that
you're interested in, I'm never worried about it being you know,
homogeneous across all of YouTube.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
A bunch of powerful YouTubers announced recently they were quitting
the platform.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, some of them say they're burned out.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Some of them say, you know, they can't deal with
the algorithm and all the time changes.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
What do you have to say to some of those people?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
And I think there's this feeling that you're pushing out
some of the more homespun creators for more flashy content.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I would say the way I look at it is
it's almost sort of a natural evolution given how long
YouTube has been around, and I've had my own history
with YouTube. I've been working with YouTube even before either
I or YouTube were part of Google, when it was
above you know, a piece of parlor right down the
street here in San mateo, and so I have really
seen that journey really kind of from me at the
(12:31):
zoo to what it's become today. And I would say
a couple things. First of all, everybody's decision in terms
of what they choose to do really is a personal one.
I know lots of creators who've chosen to either take
a break or perhaps move to different sorts of pursuits.
Some of them have moved from in front of the
camera to behind the camera. Some of them have moved
(12:51):
to grow different types of businesses out of their YouTube experience.
And I think all of that is actually a natural evolution,
but actually also really great because it's a decision that
they were able to make based on their success on
our platform. And so that's how I've seen that. You know,
it's natural for someone who's been doing something for coming
(13:12):
up on two decades to think about perhaps something else
that they might want to do, and so it really
is a personal choice.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Broadly, shorts does seem to be YouTube's answer to TikTok?
Is it working or are you cannibalizing the og?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
YouTube has to be a place for creators where they
can do, again a fifteen second short or a fifteen
hour live stream, and we have all of those creators
on our platform, and so our investment in shorts is
something that I'm very excited about. We have seventy billion
views a day on the platform. You know, the number
of creators uploading shorts has grown fifty percent year on year.
We are in a monetization journey where every single month
(13:50):
for the last year since launching our monetization program on shorts,
creator's earnings have grown every single month. So lots and
lots of success around shorts, but it's still very, very
early days.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Screen Time is the number one thing parents seem to
be dealing with right now, and studies are showing that
screen time is linked to mental health issues and kids
as young as three.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Like we're talking about anxiety depression. As a dad, how
do you grapple with these issues.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's a great question. In our home. My wife and
I talk about this on a regular basis. We have,
you know, kids across a broad range, and I think,
first of all, obviously every household has to make their
own decisions about these things. The second, I do think
that they're at least in our household, we make different
decisions depending on the age and development of all three
(14:38):
of our kids. Back to your point on screen time,
personalized ads is not something that we allow for under eighteens.
Uploading videos is default private, right, So those types of things,
the screen time settings are set on by default actually
for even in that case, and so that's sort of
how we deal with it.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
It's almost like kids, I mean, kids are spending billions
of hours on YouTube. It's almost like the default babysitter.
Do you think about that responsibility?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think about it on a daily basis, And it
starts with those principles which get baked into our products, YouTube,
Kids Supervisors Experiences, even the main app for under eighteens.
But it doesn't stop there. It's about also the policies
that govern the content that should be allowed for young people.
So we've always had very strong policies around wellbeing of
(15:23):
young people, obviously very strong policies around eating disorders and
self harm and that type of content. But it's not
just about what content comes down from the platform. It
is also how our recommendation algorithms think about that. And
the third thing which sometimes gets overlooked but I think
is really important, is also having a set of guidelines
(15:44):
that we provide to the creative community about content that
is appropriate for kids of all ages. Importantly, for all
of these buckets, we really do work with a large
stable of experts, so child wellbeing experts, child develop and experts,
children's media experts, and this group of outside advisors really
(16:06):
gives us advice on all of these things, our products,
our content policies, our creator guidelines, and so it's an
ongoing process. We're not perfect by any means, but it's
a lot of this that goes into the products that
the young people in your household experience every day.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Artificial intelligence is clearly going to have a powerful impact
on all platforms.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
How will AI change YouTube?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I feel that YouTube is uniquely positioned in one very
specific way when it comes to artificial intelligence. Of course,
we are a technology company. We have lots of engineers
that work here building all the products that we have
been talking about, and so we have a deep investment
in artificial intelligence going back years and years. Everything from
the way that we recommend content, all the work that
(16:51):
we do to protect users on our platform from bad actors,
bad content, etc. That has borne out through heavy investment
in AI. But we're also a creative company. We're a
platform where creators come every day to share their ideas,
share their amazing work with their fans all over the world.
So bringing together the best of AI and using it
(17:12):
to really empower human creativity is how I think you're
going to see it show up on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
You've got a new tool now that requires users to
disclose when they're using AI generated content.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
But why put that responsibility on users? Shouldn't you two
be making that distinction.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, the person who's going to know best that they
have used either artificial intelligence, and by the way, it's
not just about purely artificial intelligence, and creators do have
a responsibility when they're uploading content and building an audience
on YouTube to disclose that, and so that's what we believe.
It is also our responsibility to put that in front
of users, and so that will be a requirement of
(17:52):
our creators, but we will build systems to also be
able to do our best at detecting that. That's an
area of investment for us. It's built on our existing
policies and principles around content and our platform.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
So you're also going to flag videos that you notice
have AI involved that or maybe don't disclose.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It and users can flag those videos as well. And so,
just like for the rest of our content policies, if
a user notices something that this is actually deceptive in
this particular way, users can flag that and we use
those user flags to actually make policy decisions. In this case,
the decision would be applying a label to that content.
And so that's one approach, but that's really only one
(18:32):
approach by which we're thinking about living up to our
responsibility in this really rapidly changing world powered by AI.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Well, talk about rapidly changing.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
What was your reaction when you saw open ais Ora
demo the technology.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
What's really amazing about this and our teams talk about
this in our product reviews on a regular basis, is
that there are new developments that are happening almost on
a weekly, monthly sort of basis. And when I think
about again, just from a YouTube perspective, the way that
you should expect AI to manifest itself in the product
is through creator tools, and as a creator, honestly, whether
(19:10):
they're powered by AI or not is sort of besides
the point. They should allow you to do things that
otherwise you could only imagine in the past, or something
that might have taken you nine weeks to do, maybe
you can do in like nine minutes or nine seconds.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Open ai Cto Mira Marati was asked what data was
used to train Sora, and she didn't give a clear answer.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Do you believe that YouTube was used to train SOA.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well, I don't know. I think first you would have
to you know, I guess they were asked, but you
know you'd have to ask them. I have seen reports
that it may or may not have been used. I
have no information myself, and so I'd encourage you to
ask them directly if it was.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Being used, Would that be against your policy?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
It would be. We have a clear terms of service
that when a creator uploads their hard work to our platform,
they have certain expectations. One of those expectations is that
the terms of service is going to be abided by.
And our terms of service does allow for some YouTube
content like the title of a video or the channel
name or the creator's name to be scraped, because that's
(20:20):
how you enable the open Web for that content to
show up and maybe show up in other search engines
or what have you, and be available that way. But
it does not allow for things like transcripts or video
bits to be downloaded, and that is a clear violation
of our toss. And so those are the rules of
the road in terms of content on our platform, and how.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Does it work internally? Is Google using YouTube to train Gemini?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Google uses YouTube content really in accordance again back with
those terms of service or individual contracts that we might
have with creators or uploaders to our platform. As you know,
lots of creators have different sort of licensing contracts in
terms of their con our platform. Lots of rights holders do,
and so some portion of that YouTube Corpus maybe being
(21:05):
used for those models, but it's going to be in
concert with whatever the terms of service or the contract
that that creator is signed before uploading their content to YouTube.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
And how is.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
YouTube working with creators to make sure their IP is
protected and that they get paid for it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
A lot of it does start with our core terms
of service and what the rules there are in terms
of how their content can be used, how it shouldn't
be getting scraped, et cetera. So that's an important part
of our efforts there. But I would take a step
back and say that as we're thinking about how AI
technology is going to show up on the YouTube platform,
(21:40):
it's going to go back to the core mission, which
is it's ultimately about making creators successful on our platform,
building magical experiences for our viewers.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
When I first saw SOA, I was definitely taken it back,
like misinformation is already rampant. Are we staring down the
barrel of a future where we won't know what's real.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
And what's fake? Is this the end of truth as
we know it?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I would say that we have to have two key
aspects of our approach here versus. This technology is here.
We can't hide from this technology, and I am all
of my experience in terms of these types of big
paradigm shifts, whether it was the birth of the Internet
or that shift from desktop to mobile, is that it's
going to lead to many, many amazing opportunities. Having said that,
(22:28):
this is also technology that, if it's in the hands
of bad actors, will reduce the cost of producing, in
your example, deep fakes or misinformation to zero or very
close to zero. So we have to be cognizant of that.
AI is going to play a really big role in
actually detecting that type of content, but also all the
amazing trained professionals we have all over the world that
(22:49):
are reviewing this content. So all of those things have
to come in together.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
It's a record election year, more than half the world
is voting. How is Google going to ensure fair information
and free election, especially in the age of AI.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
We have a new policy in place that is requiring
labeling of this sort of content. We won't just stop there.
When people are looking for election related information on our platform.
We raise up content that comes from channels that have
a history of authority, and again authority not determined by me,
but by third party raiders all over the world that
(23:25):
evaluate content from these channels, So content from authoritative sources.
We have an intelligence desk, and we have a capability,
a Google wide capability, the Threat Analysis group that is
looking for coordinated deceptive practices, state actor deceptive practices that
might be using some of this technology. And finally, this
(23:46):
is all based on a foundation of actually having policies
in place that make sure that YouTube isn't a place
for content that violates our election integrity policy. Our hate
speech policies are harmful, criminal conspiracy policies, So all of
those things have to come in to affect to make
sure that we are a place where people can have
open discourse around politics and elections, because YouTube is an
(24:09):
open platform where a lot of that electoral process plays out,
but also one where we're doing our best to make
sure that this type of technology doesn't allow for misinformation
to get distributed.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
I hear that you're the kind of leader that you
know you keep cool.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
In a crisis.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
What does it take to do that, especially at a
company like YouTube where you know there's a lot going
on on the platform every day.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know, my wife jokes that my nickname is even
Keel Neil, and that's just kind of how I've I've
always been so u It's you know, I think from
my standpoint, it's about keeping perspective, the bigger picture in mind,
and I think that when it comes to those types
of difficult moments in terms of operating our business, what
I really try to fall back to are always first principles,
(24:54):
because those difficult moments always involve making trade offs between
really really tough choices, and so being grounded in a
set of core principles about what truly is important for
the business, what's right for our users, allows me to
stay calm and actually help the teams make those types
of decisions.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
So where does even Keel Neil want YouTube to be
in five years.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I want to be a place where we are the
best place to create, to share, to watch a video,
regardless of where you are in the world or what
device you're on ours. That's my vision. That's the vision
for YouTube. A couple of just concrete examples are We've
talked about living room growth, so that is a big
(25:36):
area where I think we're in the very early days
of the growth journey around YouTube and living rooms all
over the world. We've talked about creation, AI powered creation,
the fact that we have these supercomputers in our pockets,
in our phones, so participatory creation, especially for younger audiences,
all of us being creators. We're in the really really
(25:57):
early days of that as well. And so those are
kind of two really big trends that I see growing
over the next five years.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Thank you. That was awesome. I really appreciate it. Don't
forget to like and subscribe.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I'm Emily Chang. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Emily Chang TV. You can watch new episodes of the
Circuit on Bloomberg Television or on demand by downloading the
Bloomberg app to your smart TV. Or on YouTube, and
check out other Bloomberg podcasts on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartMedia app, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to your shows, and let us
know what you think by leaving a review. They really
(26:31):
make a difference. I'm your host and executive producer. Our
senior producers are Lauren Ellis and Alan Jeffries. Our editor
is Alison Casey. Catch you next time.
Host
Emily Chang
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