March 28, 2023 • 49 mins
Hero cops in Nashville. Failure of parenting. Tudor Dixon on keeping kids safe. Trump vs. DeSantis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome and everybody to the Tuesday edition
of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I'm a
lot to get to with you today. Obviously, we now
know the identity and a whole lot more information about
(00:20):
the Nashville school shooter from yesterday. It was a transgender
individual pick the school out had a manifesto. The manifesto
has not been released at least I believe as we
speak to you right this moment, although it could come
out during the show, and if so, we will read
(00:41):
through it quickly to see. But we have analysis on
what happened there, and also on the Nashville Metro Police
side of things, body camera footage is out that shows
from at least two officers perspectives, Officers Rex Engelbert and
(01:02):
Michael Colozzo, how they engage the target and they moved
to it right away. Heroic actions by Nashville police that
almost certainly saved lives in the process and did stop
the threat and did bring this horrific mass shooting in
Nashville to a conclusion. We've also got the discussion already
(01:27):
underway about how to deal with this. On the political side,
Joe Biden calling for an assault rifle ban. We heard
that yesterday right at the end of our program. The
primary focus of all the Democrat aligned media is on guns,
of course, very little discussion about the mental health issues,
(01:49):
the obvious mental health issues that were involved here in
this mass casualty domestic terror attack. And I want to
explain why this is a domestic terror attack by all
of the definitions and our expectations about how we discuss
these things and how we how we analyze them, and
then we'll get into some politics. We've got some other
(02:10):
stories want to bring to your attention. Really interesting to see, Clay,
the Biden administration trying to pose already from Biden's Twitter
account and in other places, tough on crime and trying
to secure the border and actually calling out Republicans for
being weak on those issues. If you want to see
(02:33):
how much of an inversion of reality they're willing to
engage in when it comes to the twenty twenty four
election and how they're going to get people to vote
from all right, Clay, let's we went off airy yesterday
and a lot more information came out about the shooter
I want to get to that second because first the
breaking news and just came out in the last hour
(02:55):
and a half or so, is that Nashville Metro Police
on a number of levels, I think here is showing
you textbook execution of the you know, what you should
do in a mass shuter incident like this, and also
textbook transparency, which is really important getting information out right away,
(03:18):
updating it right away. You could really tell in that
press conference yesterday, even when Chief of Police came out
that they were just telling everybody what they had and
as they had new information, they told the new information.
This is really in many ways, it seems like the
opposite of the uval day police response, which was very
confused withholding and then we know in the end cowardly
(03:41):
is what happened there. This is the opposite of that.
These officers were heroes. And we'll actually play some of
the body camera footage and assess what happened here in
a second. Yeah, no doubt, And I would encourage everybody
out there listening to us right now to seek out
the body camera footage. We're going to play you some audio,
but I think need to see it. And frankly, I
(04:02):
think you need to share it with people, maybe in
your own lives, who've been critical of police, because we
all know that every time a police officer makes a mistake,
the video goes viral of that body camera mistake of
that incident. This is a what appears to me to
be a clinical response by the Nashville Police Department from
(04:25):
there's a six minute video buck of the police officer
pulling up, getting out, opening up the trunk of his car,
unloading his rifle, being informed by a employee of the school, Hey,
here's where we think the shooter is. The kids are
locked down, here's what you need to know. And then
to be able to follow both of the hero cops
(04:48):
who eventually brought down this killer, to be able to
follow them in real time and see as they are
searching the school and attempting to find their way towards
the shots to protect those kids. It's everything we didn't
see in uve all day, and I think every single
police department in the country, in the same way that
they may have looked at you've all day and said
(05:09):
we can never do this again. They failed on so
many different levels. They need to be using this Nashville
footage as tape of how to handle a school shooting. Fuck,
from the moment they entered that school to the moment
they took down that shooter was a little bit over
three minutes. From the moment that one of the police
officers who took down the shooter literally pulled up in
(05:31):
his car to taking down that shooter was six minutes.
For everybody out there who wants to micromanage, attack and
try to defund the police, this is a clip that
needs to be spread widely. It is violent, it is
graphic to some extent, but I think it's important for
people to experience what the real life moments to moment
life of a cop is like. And I think when
(05:52):
you watch that footage, actually here, let's play we have
the end of it, the moment where these officers you
have to have to remember they're going in. They don't
know who this person is in terms of the level
of training and proficiency. They don't know if this person
has set up an ambush for them. They don't know
(06:13):
what the firing angles are they're walking into. They don't
know if this person has incendiary or explosive devices. I mean,
they're just going into a school shooting. They have very
little information that every room that they walk into. I mean,
for a lot of our folks listening who are former military,
you know, they know it was like clearing rooms in Iraq,
clearing rooms in Afghanistan, going into these compounds in Afghanistan,
(06:36):
every room you walk into you could take an AK
forty seven round. Well, in this case, every room they
walked into, these officers they could have been they could
have been mowed down by a barricaded shooter. So the
fact that it came off the way that it did,
they did this with precision, professionalism, and courage. And here
is how the final moment, the confrontation with that shooter sounded.
(06:59):
Play it, what help stop? Movid? Stop movid? What's up?
(07:37):
What's up? Suspect down? Suspect down? I want to say, Clay,
we have body camera footage from officers Rex Engelbert and
Michael Colozzo, who both took shots to take down the shooter.
In that footage, there were other officers present there as well.
If we know their names, will read them on air
as well. I haven't. I haven't seen the other officers
(07:58):
named yet. Um we we should pull them up because
they took the same risks they were effectively. They didn't
really move in a stack, but they were moving in
the same cover formation. And all those officers showed us
exactly what cops are supposed to do, what we praise
them for doing, and what the expectations of the American
(08:20):
people for their law enforcement are. And I think for
a lot of people this was you know, this was
a lot of people in the law enforce and community,
and I can speak for them to degree that they've
told me this. You know, they were all furious after
you've all day. Every law enforcement officer in the country
can watch what happened here in Nashville in terms of
this response and say that's who we are and that's
(08:40):
how we save lives. I think they did better than
social workers would have buck for everybody out there who
tried to make this ridiculous argument to defund the police
and that in moments of violence, what we really needed
to do was bring in social workers to talk to
people who are contemplating issues of violence. These guys are badasses,
(09:02):
and you I can't impress upon you enough how much
I would encourage you to go watch the video. You
can hear the audio, the alarm going off in the background,
the default to training buck in a situation like this,
it is as as a way person. It is a
flawlessly executed It appears to me six minute video that
(09:26):
almost feels like it could be a training exercise because
they were so perfect in the way that they performed.
When you watch it and they're going room to room,
they're communicating, you know, you've got to remember these officers,
I mean, their hearts are beating out of their chests,
which affects their particularly fine motor skills. But you know everything,
(09:46):
you could hear that noise, you could hear the situation
they're going into. It's chaotic there. They blur them in
the video. There are bodies that you see some of
the at least one or two of the individuals who
are killed, civilians who were killed in this um. So
they're seeing dead bodies. They know they've got an active shooter.
It's very loud. They have no idea where this shooter is.
(10:08):
They've got no intel on that at all. And like
I said, every room they walk into they could be
walking into, you know, they could be walking into rifle
fire a close distance, which even even with play vests on,
I mean, you know you're you're very likely not going
to be able to make it through that. And they
did it. You could tell there was no hesitation, There
was no Oh, I don't know, Maybe we should wait
(10:29):
for even more back up, Maybe we need an armored
vehicle to come in here for us, or I mean,
it was just we're going there are kids at risk,
there are adults at risk. We are taking action right
now to save lives. And you know it today, they
did it very well and under the circumstances when you
think back to what they were walking into, took takes
(10:50):
tremendous bravery. Any one of those officers could have been
killed in that situation that circumstance. Honestly, all of them
could have been and they moved like they were doing
it to save other people's lives. They all want to
go home to their families at the end of the night.
You know, people gotta remember that that's going to enter
into their heads too. They walk into that building, it's
I've got a wife and three kids at home, or
I've got a you know, a wife and a child
(11:11):
on the way, or whatever it may be. And they
know every room they walk into could be their last,
and they moved without hesitation. I just want any critic
of the police to watch this video and and I
would encourage and look, we've been critical on this show.
I mean many of you who are very critical of
you all day. I said it was cowardly, and by
the way, that was true. It was the response and
(11:32):
you've all day was cowardice, and we said it. And
sometimes that upsets people when you when you say something
like that, but you've got to be honest. And what
I would say is, if you are someone out there
who is a critic of the police and you will
share every single negative video involving a police officer, I
would encourage you to go watch that video, the six
(11:54):
minute version of that video in particular where you'd literally
see the officer pull up, and think about the circumstances
that those guys are in Buck because as you watch them,
have to go into these different classrooms in an active
shooter situation, and they don't know where the shooter is,
and they're trying to clear the rooms as they are
working their way up, they're trying to find their way
(12:16):
the stairwells. They've never been building before, they have no
real idea where they're headed, and there's shots being fired,
and there's kids being killed, there's innocent teachers being killed,
and they got there. From the moment that they enter
that school until the shooter is down is a little
over three minutes. From the moment they pull up in
their police cruiser to the moment that shooter is down
(12:38):
is six minutes. It's almost impossible to do better now
we come back. I do think it's worth having a
discussion not only about who the shooter was, in their background,
everything else. Same conversation we had after Uvalde Buck. I've
got three kids that were in Nashville schools, three different ones,
all of them have armed security guards in them. Why
can't we give a hundred billion dollars to Ukraine and
(13:00):
we can't protect every kid in a school in America.
I think that's reporting conversation. The reporting is still out
there that the shooter chose this school instead of another
school because of the higher security at the other school.
Now I know that the shooter went to this school
as a student, but there was another school. I don't
believe they've named with who what the other school is.
(13:21):
I would assume that school probably had a resource officer.
I think every person in America who would ever consider
going to a school needs to understand there's going to
be an armed person there that they're going to have
to get through, because I think that could change in
many ways the decision making there. We'll talk about that
and Moore as we continue to break it down. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us, and thanks to
(13:42):
all the brave men and women of the Nashville Police Department.
And thanks to that police department for getting out that
footage with which I think is going to go a
long way towards combating anti cop sentiment in this country.
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the Truth. Tune in every day to the Clay Travis
and Buck Sexton Show. Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck
Sexton Show. Appreciate all you hanging out with us. The
Metro Nashville Police Department currently having a press conference to
discuss more of the details surrounding this shooting. This is
(15:10):
Chief Drake discussing some aspects of this shooting right off
the top of his statement, just happened moments ago. Listen,
We've interviewed the parents of Audrey Hale, and we've determined
that Audrey bought seven firearms from five different local gun
stores here legally. They were legally purchased three of those
(15:35):
weapons were used yesterday doing this horrific tragedy that happened.
We know that they felt that she had one weapon
and that she sold it. She was under care doctor's
care for an emotional disorder. Law enforcement knew nothing about
the treatment she was receiving, but her parents felt that
(15:58):
she should not own weapons. They were under the impression
that was when she sold the one weapon that she
did not own anymore. As it turned out, she had
been hiding several weapons within the house. We also don't
have a motive at this time. We feel that the
students that were targeted were randomly targeted. There was not
(16:21):
any particular student that they were that she was looking
for at the time, but the incident. Okay, Buck, so
there's a lot there. This is again the Nashville Police Department.
Seven firearms and she was under emotional care. This comes
back to a question that I'm sorry, I'm just gonna
(16:42):
I'm just gonna put it out there. If you have
a child that is not psychologically well, I don't understand
how you could hide seven firearms in the house she
lived in with her parents. Buck, like, the parents knew
she had one gun and she told them she sold
(17:03):
it and somehow she managed to go buy seven more.
Where does she get the money? What was her job?
And again, I'm saying this as a parent of three kids. Okay,
I understand that kids can try to hide things from you,
But if you knew you had an emotionally unwell child
and you did not want them to have weapons, how
(17:24):
in the world are there seven guns hidden in your
own home that you don't know about it. I mean again,
I'm speaking to this as a parent. I find it
inconceivable that any of my kids could hide seven weapons,
to say nothing of where they would get the money
to buy seven weapons without me being aware of it.
(17:45):
And if your child has got psychological issues the police
didn't know. According to this, she wouldn't have been able
to get guns. Why would you not notify the police
if you knew that your child had one gun was suicide?
Shouldn't have it? Again, this seems like a failure of parenting.
Am I crazy? You don't have kids yet, Buck? But
(18:07):
when I when I hear these things, it makes me
furious as a parent because there are now three kids
that are dead, and there are three moms and dads
and grandmas and grandpa's out there that are not going
to be going home because these parents didn't weren't aware
of their kid had seven guns. This is this is
also where I would want to know. And I'm not
(18:28):
a psychiatrist or a psychologist. I'm not a practitioner at
a at a clinic dealing with mental health issues. But
we have, and it's just in the last really the
last five years, but particularly the last you know, you
could expand it, the last ten years, decided that transgenderism
(18:49):
is not a mental health issue that needs attention and assistance,
but is actually something to be celebrated. Yeah, and that
this is the new civil rights. That is what we
are told. That is the absolute man data of the
Democrat Party, of the left, of the media in this country,
and of the commies very broadly. They demand this of you,
(19:12):
that you call somebody who's a man a woman, somebody
who's a woman a man, depending on their emotional state,
and you're not supposed to think there's something wrong here.
You're not allowed to that. That has changed the American
Psychiatric Association. You look at the different you know, the
DSM and the different manuals out there, they have changed
this very rapidly and very recently. And so when you're
(19:33):
talking about things like a red flag law, when you're
talking about mental health issues as it pertains to who
can get a firearm? Does somebody who is transgender, that
is that is no longer to be considered a part
of a mental health issue, that is not treated as
a mental She was seeing somebody because she chose to,
(19:54):
I assume, and she wanted to talk about different mental
health I don't depression, anxiety, whatever it may be. But
the severity of the mental illness I think can be
harder for people to really understand or for people even
around it to really gauge. Because the transgender issue is
not to be taken as a sign of instability, of
(20:16):
emotional instability. It is treated as the affirmation of the
self and the affirmation of gender. Well, what does that
really mean? Like, how can we you know, if that's
if you're a practitioner, if you're a psychiatryt sit down
with somebody and they're saying, you know, I was born
a woman, I've been a woman for twenty years or
whatever it is this person's case, but now I think
(20:38):
that I'm a man. Oh and by the way, I'm having,
you know, thoughts of violence. And oh, by the way,
I'm having you know, do you see what I'm saying,
Like like, yeah, I totally, I totally get it, because
we're told and this is the question that I'm asking Buck.
I mean, we don't even know how these different drugs
might interplay to make whatever psychosis she might have had worse.
(21:01):
Right in theory, if you're suddenly pumping somebody full of testosterone,
if she was, and simultaneously you're also giving them antidepressants
or all sorts of other mental health drugs, does that
lead to more of a psychotic breakdown? I think that's
a legitimate question that we should be asking. If somebody
wanted to see as psychiatrist and they said that they
(21:24):
have they're severely bipolar, they have severe bipolar disorder, let's say,
or a severe personality disorder of any kind, and then
they also added some I'm having some thoughts about either
self harm or harming others or whatever. There would be
this sense of the totality of the psychiatric damage and
(21:44):
risk and look, those people need help. People should go
see people. And but for you know, they were saying,
this was never relayed to law enforcement nobody. Well, were
they able to see the issue clearly because one part
of the psychological dress that this person was under was
not to be treated as instability and a sign that
(22:05):
this person may be troubled. It's to be treated as
a celebration of identity. That is the new civil rights struggle.
And so how can a practitioner, in all honesty be
asked to make a real because if you see any psychiatrists,
they will tell you this, and they look they make people.
I don't know what they do on the military side.
You come back from the CIA, you come back from overseas,
(22:27):
you're going to sit down with somebody and say, you know,
you saw some stuff, are you okay? So you know,
mental health treatment is physical health treatment. People should view
it as as two sides of the same coin. But
if you're asking people to be able to make threat
assessments like a psychiatrist at this point, I mean you
were talking about the parents, right, the parents obviously, you know,
I mean, you know a lot of challenges here for them,
and you know, looks like they miss. But this is
(22:48):
where I can't get past as a parent. And I
would say this to anybody out there. If you believe
your kid has serious psychological issues, and you are concerned
about them doing harm to themselves or someone else, and
you are not checking regularly what they are spending money on,
whether they have weapons. I mean, we're not talking about
(23:08):
her having one gun, Buck, she bought seven guns. Seven
guns are not cheap, from five different firearms dealers, and
she hid them in the house and the parents had
no idea. So right, there's there's the parent component of it.
And I think you've you've spoken to that that well.
I just think also the police specifically mentioned, well, if
we had been told she was under psychiatric care, ken
(23:30):
a psychiatrist, here's one aspect a psychiatrist even be honest
about what we're dealing with here and what the reality
of the mental health risks are of this person. Bottom line,
people died here. What happened. We have to be able
to be honest about this. If you're a psychiatrist, though,
and you get on the wrong side of this, you're
(23:52):
a transpoke, your license is gone, you're a bigot, You're
not to be talked to, you're a horrible human being.
Oh history, you're so right, Buck, because I met Historically,
one of the top signs of mental instability was the
idea that you're in the wrong body. Right in nineteen
ninety four, if you went to a psychiatrist and you said, well,
(24:13):
I'm a guy, but I actually feel like a girl.
That would not be a sign of you being incredibly
brave and proactive and courageous. It would be a sign
that your biochemistry may well be off. If I walked
into a psychiatrist's office and I said him, I speak
to people who are not there. I speak to people
(24:35):
in the room who are not actually present in the room.
That is an objectively false reality that I am projecting.
And then if I said, on top of that, I
also want to seek out I'm going to go buy
some firearms for whatever reason. Yeah, that psychiatrist would be
highly concerned and may inform law enforcement. If I walk
in and say, I'm actually a woman, and by the way,
(24:57):
I'm going to go buy some firearms for whatever. We
don't no, we haven't seen the manifesto, but I'm gonna
go buy some firearms. I don't know how the psychiatrist
feels about that, necessarily, because well, I need to affirm
your gender. Fuck what if you just came in and said, hey,
I don't like my right arm I want to chop
it off, and which is a real psychiatric condition for
(25:17):
anybody who's wondering. And also I am deeply disturbed, and
I have seven guns. I'd be like, I don't know
that I want this person to have weapons. I believe
it's called body identity integrity disorder. And these are real question.
I mean, probably the only place you're gonna hear almost
in all of America a conversation like this is here
(25:40):
because the idea that you would ever question anything about
a transgender person is considered to be so transphobic that
it's unacceptable to do. Well, there's six people dead, and
this person was clearly mentally disturbed. I think figuring out
how this happened so we can hopefully not ever have
it happen again, is a big part of figuring out
(26:01):
how to respond to this in general. Look, it's a
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More on the podcast Clay and Buck podcast Deep Dives,
more contents, more common sense find the guys on the
iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts. Our three
(27:28):
of Clay and Buck starts. Now, everybody, thank you for
being here with us. We have Tutor Dixon joining in
the conversation. She's the host of the Tutor Dickson podcast
on the Clay and Buck network. And Tutor appreciate you
calling in. Yes, thank you for having me. I want
to get your reaction, Tutor. You're you're a mom of
(27:49):
a few few young kids and you know four, and
yesterday the news all came in and it's it's a
just heartbreaking, it's a gut punched the whole country. Twenty
four hours after the incident. Wanted to give you opportunity
to just address the people of America and more specifically
people of the Nashville area. Well, it's it hits very
(28:14):
close to home for me because of my four girls,
two of them are nine. I have twins their nine
year olds and you wake up and see this and
it is devastating. Well, last night, I'm putting them to
bed and it's hard to not burst into tears when
you see them sleeping in their beds because you think
about the parents who are going through this incredible tragedy
(28:37):
and I'm just so mad about it. And I hear
all of the sides debating the politics of it, and
all I can think is, you can debate this all
you want, but you never come up with a solution
to keep our kids safe, and no realistic solution. I
never hear someone offer a realistic solution to keep our
(28:57):
kids safe. And it's not rock science, but this school.
I mean, they had done the stuff that they thought
they needed to do, they had the one single entry point,
they had the door locked. This person blew through the door.
I mean, it is, you know, maniac that had this
desire to go hurt kids, which I can't I cannot understand.
And we can come up with the political reasons all
(29:19):
we want and say this person falls into this category
or that category, but at the end of the day,
anybody who goes in and does this falls into the
category of some lunatic that we weren't protected against. And
I'm mad. I think I think every parents mad. And
I know you've got four, I've got three. I don't
know where your girls go to school specifically, And you're right.
(29:41):
For people who have not watched the video, this killer
comes and shoots her way through locked doors to enter
into the school. So she shatters the glass and that
is how she makes her entryway. I've been saying in
one solution that I see that that isn't remotely partisan. Tutor,
when you consider all of the money that we spend
(30:02):
on things that don't protect our kids at all, I
don't understand why every school doesn't have an armed security guard.
I mean the schools you've been to my house, to
schools that my kids go to, public schools outside of Nashville,
they have armed security guards. And I'm not saying that
that's going to stop this from ever happening, but I
do think if every person knew every school in America
(30:23):
has an armed security guard there, maybe it gives them
pause about the idea that they're going to be able
to just go in and take the lives of innocent
people with nobody to defend them exactly. I mean, I
think about the fact that I was in college when
we heard about Columbine, and that was a heck of
a long time ago, and we're still going, gee, what's
(30:45):
the answer, and how could we possibly do this? And
we got to take guns away from everybody, which is
when people tell you that that might feel good, it's
a lie. It's not a solution that's actually going to
stop somebody from doing this. How do we tech kids?
And I'm seeing technology that would blow your mind that
you can have a school that they'll say, oh, this
(31:07):
is going to be a school that looks like a fortress. No,
this technology sets it up to the first bullet flies
and everything locks down, and we are not taking this seriously.
We will put millions of dollars into schools for reading
that never actually impacts reading. We will put hundreds of
thousands of dollars into conventions for teachers to go learn
(31:28):
about d EI and CRT. But we are not taking
care of our kids, making sure that we have security
guards there, making sure that the doors locked down, making
sure that there are measures in place to trap this
person so that they can't get to a classroom. This
is not extreme. This is what we should be sitting
down and say whatever it takes to make sure no
(31:50):
parent grieves the loss of their child who went to school.
I dropped my kids off this morning and I looked
in their eyes and I said, what happens if someone
locks into school today? Well, you do don't look for them,
don't get distracted, kind of place to hide. And I
feel like, how can I be saying this to my kids?
How can I be so concerned that I am dropping
(32:10):
them off at a place where it's a it's a
gun free zone, so the only person that's going to
have a weapon is the person who's after them, no way.
Speaking of Tutor Dixon, she's the host of a Tutor
Dixon podcast on the Clay and Buck Network. And you know, Tutor,
I know that in your first podcast interview, it was
with a firearms expert who was talking about responsible firearms
(32:33):
ownership and shooting skills for women, particularly to protect themselves
and their families. I wanted to know if there's anything
that came from that. I mean, I'm sure that there's
a lot of people right now who are thinking, Yeah,
obviously you can't be ever at all times, and that's
why we're talking about hardening the schools. But just an
understanding of self defense and an understanding of what the
(32:54):
possibilities are seems like a worthwhile part of the conversation
of trying to make all of us a bit safely. Yeah,
we had Rick Ectorn and it was really informative because
this is somebody who went from really only having a
hunting rifle too saying I'm gonna teach women in Detroit
to protect themselves because of a story he saw on
(33:15):
the news of a woman who died, and he said,
she didn't have to die. But we went through the
whole MSU shooting, and that was somewhat of a unique
school shooting because this is somebody who wandered on campus,
who had the prosecutor really prosecuted a crime early on,
potentially this person would never have been able to buy
(33:36):
a gun. And this is another situation where the gun
was purchased legally. All signs look like in this situation Nashville,
this gun was purchased legally. We can say we can
come up with these false solutions and say we're going
to have some gun control methods that is going to
catch the bad guys, but it doesn't no matter what
(33:57):
state we look in. And that was what Rick was
so clear out. He said, look, you have these prosecutors
that are soft on crime, they're not doing this. Why
not allow people to protect themselves? And we've had folks say, well,
if you're a teacher, why shouldn't you be allowed to
carry a gun if you want to. And I said
to my girls today, what happens if someone comes in
(34:19):
your classroom? And they said, well, the teacher has a
bat and she can stand next to the door. And
my heart sinks because I'm like, we are using a
bat against the gun. I mean, what are we going
to say that our kids are worthy of protection and
that these stories of gun control are fairy tales? And
(34:41):
this and Rick lays it out pretty clearly as to
what happened at MSU and why we should be frustrated
with these soft on crime prosecutors that are letting these
people go, letting these people back on the streets, letting
these people legally buy firearms who under the system the
way it is now, they wouldn't have been able to.
(35:02):
But that's the thing. People say, Oh, we need strict
or laws, and we actually have laws that we need
to abide by. But in this case, we've got a
mental health issue. And that's another whole issue that I
don't think we have an understanding of how to get
a handle on this, because mental health it's not like
a broken arm. It's not like you know how to
set it and get it back together. Mental health is
(35:25):
different for everybody, and we're really challenged with this mental
health issue and we're you know, in a way, we're
glorifying mental health issues right now, and how is that
helping our kids? It's confusing our kids even more. And
now we've got people going in and shooting up a
school that clearly was under mental health care and needed help.
(35:49):
But there's no monitoring system for folks like this. And
what is the answer to that. You know, I'm not
pretending that I have that answer, but I think that
we need. These are the things we need to be
morning over and greeting over and saying this has to
be top of mine, it has to be our top priority.
I don't disagree at all. You've got four, Like I said,
(36:10):
I've got three. This twenty eight year old bought seven
guns from five different dealers. She was under treatment. Her
parents say they had no idea she had bought seven guns.
She was living at home. I come back again and again,
and I'm not just saying this because you're on tutor.
(36:30):
You've got four kids. We've got every parent, grandparent known
to man out there. If your kids have emotional issues,
you need to be not only worried about their safety
with their emotional issues. You need to be worried about
other people's emotional safety and physical safety as well. There
needs to be far more I think parenting going on here.
(36:52):
I just I can't get past it. Buck, we were
talking about it last hour. She lived in the home
with her parents and they claim that she somehow hid
seven guns in the house and they had no idea.
That to me is parental failure. I'm sorry, it just is.
It's such an awkward situation because you've got clearly an adult,
but this person is living with their parents because they're
(37:14):
not capable of being an adult. Right, So at that point,
when is the parent palpable? And in Michigan you see
that the Oxford shooting, the parents are being held accountable
for the child. And I think, honestly, this is what
I think the future is. You have to be held
accountable for your child's actions. Now it is there is
(37:37):
a gray area. When the child is seventeen, sixteen, fifteen,
then you are mom and dad. When the child is
twenty seven and they're living with you, then are you responsible?
You know, if you're a roommate, are you responsible? But
you have a child that is living with you because
they have mental health issues. How do you not know this?
I can't imagine not knowing this. It's like you said,
(38:00):
it wasn't and it's not like these are tiny pistols.
We're talking about seven pretty good sized weapons you've got
in your household. And it's shocking and I just can't.
I can't let this get clouded by the politics of
all of it, because at the end of the day,
I cannot get past the fact that six people have
(38:21):
lost their lives. And once again it's going to be
out of the news cycle in a couple of days,
and maybe this one will be faster, and again there
will be no action on what we do to make
sure our most valuable, precious good is taken care of.
I mean, these are our kids. Listen to the Tutor
(38:44):
Dixon podcast on the iHeart app and it's part of
the clay in Buck podcast network. Tutor, really appreciate your
perspective and we'll talk to you again soon. Thank you
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Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. So we said we'd we'd
(40:11):
hear from our friend over Fox, Jason Chafits, Well, we'd
play the clip where he talked about the Trump interview.
Last night, I watched the whole thing. Sean did the
first really meaningful sit down with him, and I think
about six months that no one's really talked to Trump.
But this length work for quite some time. Certainly worth
(40:31):
going uh and folks tuning into it on on Fox
if you if you miss it last night. But by
the way, did we get some I want to do?
We get a bunch of calls in on this. I'm
so because I wanted them lined up, one of them
lined up before. Okay, I mean said Clay, this is
the problem. Okay, this is it. This is a challenge
that I have here. We we take we hely have
(40:54):
so many lines whatever it is, we've got, you know,
a half dozen or so phone lines we can take
at one time here, right, and if all the lines
light up with one with one opinion, there's not people
will say, well, why can't you take him or varied?
You know, we'll get we'll get a little bit of
he people say, well, you're just picking and choosing. We're
literally going with the calls that we have that I
(41:15):
have to get past the screener for topic, for being topical,
and clarity of the of the actual connection. But we're
just taking what we're getting when we put this out.
I just want to say that before we get to
some of these calls. I mean, here was the Jason
Chafits response to the Trump sit down with Hannity. In
terms of how Trump did play it, I thought Sean
(41:36):
Hannity did a good job. But I watched that and
I thought, where is Donald Trump? I voted for Donald
Trump twice, I have defended him countless times. I thought
he was horrific. I think that was the worst interview
I've seen the president too. He was whining, he was complaining,
he played the victim card time and time again, and
(41:57):
then after that he complained that you know, somebody had
endorsed was now running against him. And I thought he
was absolutely horrific. He's the former president of the United States.
Act like it. He didn't in that interview. I'm saying,
that's the that's the most uh elbows in the pain
I've ever heard Jason throw anywhere on anything. Really, maybe
(42:21):
going back to when he was in the Benghazi hearings
in Congress. He's a talented guy. I watched the interview
and I left thinking, oh, I like Donald Trump and
Sean Hannity more than I did before I sat down
and watched. The interview is like super funny and engaging
and was very thought and I thought Sean was well
(42:41):
prepared and the questions were good. And maybe it's just
that you and I watched so much and listened to
so much Trump. None of the answers really surprised me,
but I thought he did a pretty good job of
answering them in an, you know, engaging way, and I
thought he didn't dodge anything of course that Hannity was asking.
I will just say this though, I mean trying to
(43:03):
interview Trump, having done it numerous times, Clay's done it
numerous times, it is rogue elephant time. I mean, you
are Trump is going where he's going. I just you know,
people will say, why don't you jump in more? You
try to jump in on Trump more when he's in
the middle of an answer, And look, he's the former president,
he's the candidate. You know, people are gonna want to
(43:23):
hear what he has to say more than anything else obviously,
but even if you try to shape the conversation a
little bit more or follow up, Trump has just this way.
He's like a He's like a verbal steam roller. You know.
You can't you think, by the way, about the loyalty argument,
because on the one hand, I do think I can see, Okay,
(43:44):
Rod de Santis, I do believe is the governor of
Florida the first time because of Trump. That is, I
buy into Trump one hundred percent. DeSantis would not have
been elected governor of Florida in twenty eighteen without Trump.
But DeSantis then served four years as governor of Florida,
did not get the Trump endorsement at all in twenty
(44:06):
two and one by nineteen points. So I can both
simultaneously see the Trump argument of hey, I helped Ron
get his opportunity. But then when you prove that you're
really good at that job, and that you're so good
at that job that you deserve another one. Let me
give you a sports analogy. Buck, if you went out
(44:26):
and you said, hey, I know sports, you should go
draft this guy. He's going to be a really good
baseball pitcher, right, and then you go draft him and
he plays for four years in the minor leagues, and
he got his start with that team because you said
draft him, and then he ends up the day one
starter of the major league baseball team and bumps you
(44:47):
down to two. I don't think any athlete would come
out and say I thought it was really disrespectful that
he took the starting nod over me, given he got
his opportunity because of me. To say, my version of
or my feeling about about that argument is there are
people in conservative media who only do the jobs they
(45:10):
do in some cases because I reached out to them,
made connections for them, and some of them have become
very successful. I would say that three out of four
of the people that I can think of were in
that role. You know, they're like polite to me, but
there's never there's no sense of like, oh thank you,
and like there's no sense of loyalty. They've just gone
on and done their own thing. But I always say,
(45:31):
I do it for the movement, and I do it
because I like to help people. I don't do it
because I want anything in response. Now that's just trying
to help people. In our business play, isn't what's most important,
what's best for the country. Who is best for the
role right now, That to me, I think is the
overriding consideration and should be for Trump and for descantists. Now,
(45:54):
Trump obviously thinks he is, and he is ahead in
the polls, and he's the former president, and I get
at it, but I don't think it's fair to think
that somebody should be excluded from their call to service.
You know, desantists may have preyed on this a lot,
and he may feel called to it, and that's something
we're gonna be here. He hasn't even announced yet, right
so we're also having this crazy discussion about it. Let
(46:17):
me also make this analogy back, because I think it's
maybe even better than the one I just did. If
you hire somebody as an assistant coach in any sport
and they are so good that they get ahead job,
and then they end up coaching against you in the
super Bowl, you would never say I can't believe he's
trying to beat me in the super Bowl. The only
(46:38):
reason he even has a job is because I found
him when nobody else would give him a chance, And
now he's in the super Bowl because of me. How
dare he try to beat me? Like? That? Would be
a ludicrous argument for a former head coach who hired
his assistant to make and that to me is kind
of what Trump is doing here. Like I said, we're
going to close it out here by we got a
(46:58):
bunch of people on the line. If line is busy,
just know that we're going to rack and stack some
calls here. So once you hear one and we finished
that call, you can then jump in because I want
to get a diversity of perspect that word, a diversity
of perspective, d Ie. You know all this one um
and and right now I think they're all leading in
(47:21):
one direction. But it's just what do we think of
the uh, the interview last night, the Trump response, there
were some funny moments with Trump. There's a reason why
this guy was able to do what he what he
did in twenty sixteen. But I want to hear from
the folks out there, and I want to try to
always we're trying to play this as fair and square.
(47:42):
Is it Fahren square, square and fair? Thank you fare
Fahren square as we can right as we can, And
that means opening up to all of you. Um. I mean, look,
I mean I just had Jack Posolvik. We sat down
for an hour ago. Listen to Clay and Buck podcast.
Oh and we have the Is it the the president
of the Heritage Foundation's popping by. Yes, we're going to
(48:03):
be joined just a moment by Kevin Roberts. I'm up
here in in DC broadcasting literally from the Heritage Foundation offices.
So he's going to step in and say hi in
this next segment. All right, So we'll come back to
that to second Clay, what do you got for us?
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Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome and everybody to the Tuesday edition
of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I'm a
lot to get to with you today. Obviously, we now
know the identity and a whole lot more information about
(00:20):
the Nashville school shooter from yesterday. It was a transgender
individual pick the school out had a manifesto. The manifesto
has not been released at least I believe as we
speak to you right this moment, although it could come
out during the show, and if so, we will read
(00:41):
through it quickly to see. But we have analysis on
what happened there, and also on the Nashville Metro Police
side of things, body camera footage is out that shows
from at least two officers perspectives, Officers Rex Engelbert and
(01:02):
Michael Colozzo, how they engage the target and they moved
to it right away. Heroic actions by Nashville police that
almost certainly saved lives in the process and did stop
the threat and did bring this horrific mass shooting in
Nashville to a conclusion. We've also got the discussion already
(01:27):
underway about how to deal with this. On the political side,
Joe Biden calling for an assault rifle ban. We heard
that yesterday right at the end of our program. The
primary focus of all the Democrat aligned media is on guns,
of course, very little discussion about the mental health issues,
(01:49):
the obvious mental health issues that were involved here in
this mass casualty domestic terror attack. And I want to
explain why this is a domestic terror attack by all
of the definitions and our expectations about how we discuss
these things and how we how we analyze them, and
then we'll get into some politics. We've got some other
(02:10):
stories want to bring to your attention. Really interesting to see, Clay,
the Biden administration trying to pose already from Biden's Twitter
account and in other places, tough on crime and trying
to secure the border and actually calling out Republicans for
being weak on those issues. If you want to see
(02:33):
how much of an inversion of reality they're willing to
engage in when it comes to the twenty twenty four
election and how they're going to get people to vote
from all right, Clay, let's we went off airy yesterday
and a lot more information came out about the shooter
I want to get to that second because first the
breaking news and just came out in the last hour
(02:55):
and a half or so, is that Nashville Metro Police
on a number of levels, I think here is showing
you textbook execution of the you know, what you should
do in a mass shuter incident like this, and also
textbook transparency, which is really important getting information out right away,
(03:18):
updating it right away. You could really tell in that
press conference yesterday, even when Chief of Police came out
that they were just telling everybody what they had and
as they had new information, they told the new information.
This is really in many ways, it seems like the
opposite of the uval day police response, which was very
confused withholding and then we know in the end cowardly
(03:41):
is what happened there. This is the opposite of that.
These officers were heroes. And we'll actually play some of
the body camera footage and assess what happened here in
a second. Yeah, no doubt, And I would encourage everybody
out there listening to us right now to seek out
the body camera footage. We're going to play you some audio,
but I think need to see it. And frankly, I
(04:02):
think you need to share it with people, maybe in
your own lives, who've been critical of police, because we
all know that every time a police officer makes a mistake,
the video goes viral of that body camera mistake of
that incident. This is a what appears to me to
be a clinical response by the Nashville Police Department from
(04:25):
there's a six minute video buck of the police officer
pulling up, getting out, opening up the trunk of his car,
unloading his rifle, being informed by a employee of the school, Hey,
here's where we think the shooter is. The kids are
locked down, here's what you need to know. And then
to be able to follow both of the hero cops
(04:48):
who eventually brought down this killer, to be able to
follow them in real time and see as they are
searching the school and attempting to find their way towards
the shots to protect those kids. It's everything we didn't
see in uve all day, and I think every single
police department in the country, in the same way that
they may have looked at you've all day and said
(05:09):
we can never do this again. They failed on so
many different levels. They need to be using this Nashville
footage as tape of how to handle a school shooting. Fuck,
from the moment they entered that school to the moment
they took down that shooter was a little bit over
three minutes. From the moment that one of the police
officers who took down the shooter literally pulled up in
(05:31):
his car to taking down that shooter was six minutes.
For everybody out there who wants to micromanage, attack and
try to defund the police, this is a clip that
needs to be spread widely. It is violent, it is
graphic to some extent, but I think it's important for
people to experience what the real life moments to moment
life of a cop is like. And I think when
(05:52):
you watch that footage, actually here, let's play we have
the end of it, the moment where these officers you
have to have to remember they're going in. They don't
know who this person is in terms of the level
of training and proficiency. They don't know if this person
has set up an ambush for them. They don't know
(06:13):
what the firing angles are they're walking into. They don't
know if this person has incendiary or explosive devices. I mean,
they're just going into a school shooting. They have very
little information that every room that they walk into. I mean,
for a lot of our folks listening who are former military,
you know, they know it was like clearing rooms in Iraq,
clearing rooms in Afghanistan, going into these compounds in Afghanistan,
(06:36):
every room you walk into you could take an AK
forty seven round. Well, in this case, every room they
walked into, these officers they could have been they could
have been mowed down by a barricaded shooter. So the
fact that it came off the way that it did,
they did this with precision, professionalism, and courage. And here
is how the final moment, the confrontation with that shooter sounded.
(06:59):
Play it, what help stop? Movid? Stop movid? What's up?
(07:37):
What's up? Suspect down? Suspect down? I want to say, Clay,
we have body camera footage from officers Rex Engelbert and
Michael Colozzo, who both took shots to take down the shooter.
In that footage, there were other officers present there as well.
If we know their names, will read them on air
as well. I haven't. I haven't seen the other officers
(07:58):
named yet. Um we we should pull them up because
they took the same risks they were effectively. They didn't
really move in a stack, but they were moving in
the same cover formation. And all those officers showed us
exactly what cops are supposed to do, what we praise
them for doing, and what the expectations of the American
(08:20):
people for their law enforcement are. And I think for
a lot of people this was you know, this was
a lot of people in the law enforce and community,
and I can speak for them to degree that they've
told me this. You know, they were all furious after
you've all day. Every law enforcement officer in the country
can watch what happened here in Nashville in terms of
this response and say that's who we are and that's
(08:40):
how we save lives. I think they did better than
social workers would have buck for everybody out there who
tried to make this ridiculous argument to defund the police
and that in moments of violence, what we really needed
to do was bring in social workers to talk to
people who are contemplating issues of violence. These guys are badasses,
(09:02):
and you I can't impress upon you enough how much
I would encourage you to go watch the video. You
can hear the audio, the alarm going off in the background,
the default to training buck in a situation like this,
it is as as a way person. It is a
flawlessly executed It appears to me six minute video that
(09:26):
almost feels like it could be a training exercise because
they were so perfect in the way that they performed.
When you watch it and they're going room to room,
they're communicating, you know, you've got to remember these officers,
I mean, their hearts are beating out of their chests,
which affects their particularly fine motor skills. But you know everything,
(09:46):
you could hear that noise, you could hear the situation
they're going into. It's chaotic there. They blur them in
the video. There are bodies that you see some of
the at least one or two of the individuals who
are killed, civilians who were killed in this um. So
they're seeing dead bodies. They know they've got an active shooter.
It's very loud. They have no idea where this shooter is.
(10:08):
They've got no intel on that at all. And like
I said, every room they walk into they could be
walking into, you know, they could be walking into rifle
fire a close distance, which even even with play vests on,
I mean, you know you're you're very likely not going
to be able to make it through that. And they
did it. You could tell there was no hesitation, There
was no Oh, I don't know, Maybe we should wait
(10:29):
for even more back up, Maybe we need an armored
vehicle to come in here for us, or I mean,
it was just we're going there are kids at risk,
there are adults at risk. We are taking action right
now to save lives. And you know it today, they
did it very well and under the circumstances when you
think back to what they were walking into, took takes
(10:50):
tremendous bravery. Any one of those officers could have been
killed in that situation that circumstance. Honestly, all of them
could have been and they moved like they were doing
it to save other people's lives. They all want to
go home to their families at the end of the night.
You know, people gotta remember that that's going to enter
into their heads too. They walk into that building, it's
I've got a wife and three kids at home, or
I've got a you know, a wife and a child
(11:11):
on the way, or whatever it may be. And they
know every room they walk into could be their last,
and they moved without hesitation. I just want any critic
of the police to watch this video and and I
would encourage and look, we've been critical on this show.
I mean many of you who are very critical of
you all day. I said it was cowardly, and by
the way, that was true. It was the response and
(11:32):
you've all day was cowardice, and we said it. And
sometimes that upsets people when you when you say something
like that, but you've got to be honest. And what
I would say is, if you are someone out there
who is a critic of the police and you will
share every single negative video involving a police officer, I
would encourage you to go watch that video, the six
(11:54):
minute version of that video in particular where you'd literally
see the officer pull up, and think about the circumstances
that those guys are in Buck because as you watch them,
have to go into these different classrooms in an active
shooter situation, and they don't know where the shooter is,
and they're trying to clear the rooms as they are
working their way up, they're trying to find their way
(12:16):
the stairwells. They've never been building before, they have no
real idea where they're headed, and there's shots being fired,
and there's kids being killed, there's innocent teachers being killed,
and they got there. From the moment that they enter
that school until the shooter is down is a little
over three minutes. From the moment they pull up in
their police cruiser to the moment that shooter is down
(12:38):
is six minutes. It's almost impossible to do better now
we come back. I do think it's worth having a
discussion not only about who the shooter was, in their background,
everything else. Same conversation we had after Uvalde Buck. I've
got three kids that were in Nashville schools, three different ones,
all of them have armed security guards in them. Why
can't we give a hundred billion dollars to Ukraine and
(13:00):
we can't protect every kid in a school in America.
I think that's reporting conversation. The reporting is still out
there that the shooter chose this school instead of another
school because of the higher security at the other school.
Now I know that the shooter went to this school
as a student, but there was another school. I don't
believe they've named with who what the other school is.
(13:21):
I would assume that school probably had a resource officer.
I think every person in America who would ever consider
going to a school needs to understand there's going to
be an armed person there that they're going to have
to get through, because I think that could change in
many ways the decision making there. We'll talk about that
and Moore as we continue to break it down. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us, and thanks to
(13:42):
all the brave men and women of the Nashville Police Department.
And thanks to that police department for getting out that
footage with which I think is going to go a
long way towards combating anti cop sentiment in this country.
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restriction supply c site. For details, make an appointment with
the Truth. Tune in every day to the Clay Travis
and Buck Sexton Show. Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck
Sexton Show. Appreciate all you hanging out with us. The
Metro Nashville Police Department currently having a press conference to
discuss more of the details surrounding this shooting. This is
(15:10):
Chief Drake discussing some aspects of this shooting right off
the top of his statement, just happened moments ago. Listen,
We've interviewed the parents of Audrey Hale, and we've determined
that Audrey bought seven firearms from five different local gun
stores here legally. They were legally purchased three of those
(15:35):
weapons were used yesterday doing this horrific tragedy that happened.
We know that they felt that she had one weapon
and that she sold it. She was under care doctor's
care for an emotional disorder. Law enforcement knew nothing about
the treatment she was receiving, but her parents felt that
(15:58):
she should not own weapons. They were under the impression
that was when she sold the one weapon that she
did not own anymore. As it turned out, she had
been hiding several weapons within the house. We also don't
have a motive at this time. We feel that the
students that were targeted were randomly targeted. There was not
(16:21):
any particular student that they were that she was looking
for at the time, but the incident. Okay, Buck, so
there's a lot there. This is again the Nashville Police Department.
Seven firearms and she was under emotional care. This comes
back to a question that I'm sorry, I'm just gonna
(16:42):
I'm just gonna put it out there. If you have
a child that is not psychologically well, I don't understand
how you could hide seven firearms in the house she
lived in with her parents. Buck, like, the parents knew
she had one gun and she told them she sold
(17:03):
it and somehow she managed to go buy seven more.
Where does she get the money? What was her job?
And again, I'm saying this as a parent of three kids. Okay,
I understand that kids can try to hide things from you,
But if you knew you had an emotionally unwell child
and you did not want them to have weapons, how
(17:24):
in the world are there seven guns hidden in your
own home that you don't know about it. I mean again,
I'm speaking to this as a parent. I find it
inconceivable that any of my kids could hide seven weapons,
to say nothing of where they would get the money
to buy seven weapons without me being aware of it.
(17:45):
And if your child has got psychological issues the police
didn't know. According to this, she wouldn't have been able
to get guns. Why would you not notify the police
if you knew that your child had one gun was suicide?
Shouldn't have it? Again, this seems like a failure of parenting.
Am I crazy? You don't have kids yet, Buck? But
(18:07):
when I when I hear these things, it makes me
furious as a parent because there are now three kids
that are dead, and there are three moms and dads
and grandmas and grandpa's out there that are not going
to be going home because these parents didn't weren't aware
of their kid had seven guns. This is this is
also where I would want to know. And I'm not
(18:28):
a psychiatrist or a psychologist. I'm not a practitioner at
a at a clinic dealing with mental health issues. But
we have, and it's just in the last really the
last five years, but particularly the last you know, you
could expand it, the last ten years, decided that transgenderism
(18:49):
is not a mental health issue that needs attention and assistance,
but is actually something to be celebrated. Yeah, and that
this is the new civil rights. That is what we
are told. That is the absolute man data of the
Democrat Party, of the left, of the media in this country,
and of the commies very broadly. They demand this of you,
(19:12):
that you call somebody who's a man a woman, somebody
who's a woman a man, depending on their emotional state,
and you're not supposed to think there's something wrong here.
You're not allowed to that. That has changed the American
Psychiatric Association. You look at the different you know, the
DSM and the different manuals out there, they have changed
this very rapidly and very recently. And so when you're
(19:33):
talking about things like a red flag law, when you're
talking about mental health issues as it pertains to who
can get a firearm? Does somebody who is transgender, that
is that is no longer to be considered a part
of a mental health issue, that is not treated as
a mental She was seeing somebody because she chose to,
(19:54):
I assume, and she wanted to talk about different mental
health I don't depression, anxiety, whatever it may be. But
the severity of the mental illness I think can be
harder for people to really understand or for people even
around it to really gauge. Because the transgender issue is
not to be taken as a sign of instability, of
(20:16):
emotional instability. It is treated as the affirmation of the
self and the affirmation of gender. Well, what does that
really mean? Like, how can we you know, if that's
if you're a practitioner, if you're a psychiatryt sit down
with somebody and they're saying, you know, I was born
a woman, I've been a woman for twenty years or
whatever it is this person's case, but now I think
(20:38):
that I'm a man. Oh and by the way, I'm having,
you know, thoughts of violence. And oh, by the way,
I'm having you know, do you see what I'm saying,
Like like, yeah, I totally, I totally get it, because
we're told and this is the question that I'm asking Buck.
I mean, we don't even know how these different drugs
might interplay to make whatever psychosis she might have had worse.
(21:01):
Right in theory, if you're suddenly pumping somebody full of testosterone,
if she was, and simultaneously you're also giving them antidepressants
or all sorts of other mental health drugs, does that
lead to more of a psychotic breakdown? I think that's
a legitimate question that we should be asking. If somebody
wanted to see as psychiatrist and they said that they
(21:24):
have they're severely bipolar, they have severe bipolar disorder, let's say,
or a severe personality disorder of any kind, and then
they also added some I'm having some thoughts about either
self harm or harming others or whatever. There would be
this sense of the totality of the psychiatric damage and
(21:44):
risk and look, those people need help. People should go
see people. And but for you know, they were saying,
this was never relayed to law enforcement nobody. Well, were
they able to see the issue clearly because one part
of the psychological dress that this person was under was
not to be treated as instability and a sign that
(22:05):
this person may be troubled. It's to be treated as
a celebration of identity. That is the new civil rights struggle.
And so how can a practitioner, in all honesty be
asked to make a real because if you see any psychiatrists,
they will tell you this, and they look they make people.
I don't know what they do on the military side.
You come back from the CIA, you come back from overseas,
(22:27):
you're going to sit down with somebody and say, you know,
you saw some stuff, are you okay? So you know,
mental health treatment is physical health treatment. People should view
it as as two sides of the same coin. But
if you're asking people to be able to make threat
assessments like a psychiatrist at this point, I mean you
were talking about the parents, right, the parents obviously, you know,
I mean, you know a lot of challenges here for them,
and you know, looks like they miss. But this is
(22:48):
where I can't get past as a parent. And I
would say this to anybody out there. If you believe
your kid has serious psychological issues, and you are concerned
about them doing harm to themselves or someone else, and
you are not checking regularly what they are spending money on,
whether they have weapons. I mean, we're not talking about
(23:08):
her having one gun, Buck, she bought seven guns. Seven
guns are not cheap, from five different firearms dealers, and
she hid them in the house and the parents had
no idea. So right, there's there's the parent component of it.
And I think you've you've spoken to that that well.
I just think also the police specifically mentioned, well, if
we had been told she was under psychiatric care, ken
(23:30):
a psychiatrist, here's one aspect a psychiatrist even be honest
about what we're dealing with here and what the reality
of the mental health risks are of this person. Bottom line,
people died here. What happened. We have to be able
to be honest about this. If you're a psychiatrist, though,
and you get on the wrong side of this, you're
(23:52):
a transpoke, your license is gone, you're a bigot, You're
not to be talked to, you're a horrible human being.
Oh history, you're so right, Buck, because I met Historically,
one of the top signs of mental instability was the
idea that you're in the wrong body. Right in nineteen
ninety four, if you went to a psychiatrist and you said, well,
(24:13):
I'm a guy, but I actually feel like a girl.
That would not be a sign of you being incredibly
brave and proactive and courageous. It would be a sign
that your biochemistry may well be off. If I walked
into a psychiatrist's office and I said him, I speak
to people who are not there. I speak to people
(24:35):
in the room who are not actually present in the room.
That is an objectively false reality that I am projecting.
And then if I said, on top of that, I
also want to seek out I'm going to go buy
some firearms for whatever reason. Yeah, that psychiatrist would be
highly concerned and may inform law enforcement. If I walk
in and say, I'm actually a woman, and by the way,
(24:57):
I'm going to go buy some firearms for whatever. We
don't no, we haven't seen the manifesto, but I'm gonna
go buy some firearms. I don't know how the psychiatrist
feels about that, necessarily, because well, I need to affirm
your gender. Fuck what if you just came in and said, hey,
I don't like my right arm I want to chop
it off, and which is a real psychiatric condition for
(25:17):
anybody who's wondering. And also I am deeply disturbed, and
I have seven guns. I'd be like, I don't know
that I want this person to have weapons. I believe
it's called body identity integrity disorder. And these are real question.
I mean, probably the only place you're gonna hear almost
in all of America a conversation like this is here
(25:40):
because the idea that you would ever question anything about
a transgender person is considered to be so transphobic that
it's unacceptable to do. Well, there's six people dead, and
this person was clearly mentally disturbed. I think figuring out
how this happened so we can hopefully not ever have
it happen again, is a big part of figuring out
(26:01):
how to respond to this in general. Look, it's a
challenge right now everybody out there. You probably have car insurance,
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(26:21):
be able to find toilet paper, not be able to
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More on the podcast Clay and Buck podcast Deep Dives,
more contents, more common sense find the guys on the
iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts. Our three
(27:28):
of Clay and Buck starts. Now, everybody, thank you for
being here with us. We have Tutor Dixon joining in
the conversation. She's the host of the Tutor Dickson podcast
on the Clay and Buck network. And Tutor appreciate you
calling in. Yes, thank you for having me. I want
to get your reaction, Tutor. You're you're a mom of
(27:49):
a few few young kids and you know four, and
yesterday the news all came in and it's it's a
just heartbreaking, it's a gut punched the whole country. Twenty
four hours after the incident. Wanted to give you opportunity
to just address the people of America and more specifically
people of the Nashville area. Well, it's it hits very
(28:14):
close to home for me because of my four girls,
two of them are nine. I have twins their nine
year olds and you wake up and see this and
it is devastating. Well, last night, I'm putting them to
bed and it's hard to not burst into tears when
you see them sleeping in their beds because you think
about the parents who are going through this incredible tragedy
(28:37):
and I'm just so mad about it. And I hear
all of the sides debating the politics of it, and
all I can think is, you can debate this all
you want, but you never come up with a solution
to keep our kids safe, and no realistic solution. I
never hear someone offer a realistic solution to keep our
(28:57):
kids safe. And it's not rock science, but this school.
I mean, they had done the stuff that they thought
they needed to do, they had the one single entry point,
they had the door locked. This person blew through the door.
I mean, it is, you know, maniac that had this
desire to go hurt kids, which I can't I cannot understand.
And we can come up with the political reasons all
(29:19):
we want and say this person falls into this category
or that category, but at the end of the day,
anybody who goes in and does this falls into the
category of some lunatic that we weren't protected against. And
I'm mad. I think I think every parents mad. And
I know you've got four, I've got three. I don't
know where your girls go to school specifically, And you're right.
(29:41):
For people who have not watched the video, this killer
comes and shoots her way through locked doors to enter
into the school. So she shatters the glass and that
is how she makes her entryway. I've been saying in
one solution that I see that that isn't remotely partisan. Tutor,
when you consider all of the money that we spend
(30:02):
on things that don't protect our kids at all, I
don't understand why every school doesn't have an armed security guard.
I mean the schools you've been to my house, to
schools that my kids go to, public schools outside of Nashville,
they have armed security guards. And I'm not saying that
that's going to stop this from ever happening, but I
do think if every person knew every school in America
(30:23):
has an armed security guard there, maybe it gives them
pause about the idea that they're going to be able
to just go in and take the lives of innocent
people with nobody to defend them exactly. I mean, I
think about the fact that I was in college when
we heard about Columbine, and that was a heck of
a long time ago, and we're still going, gee, what's
(30:45):
the answer, and how could we possibly do this? And
we got to take guns away from everybody, which is
when people tell you that that might feel good, it's
a lie. It's not a solution that's actually going to
stop somebody from doing this. How do we tech kids?
And I'm seeing technology that would blow your mind that
you can have a school that they'll say, oh, this
(31:07):
is going to be a school that looks like a fortress. No,
this technology sets it up to the first bullet flies
and everything locks down, and we are not taking this seriously.
We will put millions of dollars into schools for reading
that never actually impacts reading. We will put hundreds of
thousands of dollars into conventions for teachers to go learn
(31:28):
about d EI and CRT. But we are not taking
care of our kids, making sure that we have security
guards there, making sure that the doors locked down, making
sure that there are measures in place to trap this
person so that they can't get to a classroom. This
is not extreme. This is what we should be sitting
down and say whatever it takes to make sure no
(31:50):
parent grieves the loss of their child who went to school.
I dropped my kids off this morning and I looked
in their eyes and I said, what happens if someone
locks into school today? Well, you do don't look for them,
don't get distracted, kind of place to hide. And I
feel like, how can I be saying this to my kids?
How can I be so concerned that I am dropping
(32:10):
them off at a place where it's a it's a
gun free zone, so the only person that's going to
have a weapon is the person who's after them, no way.
Speaking of Tutor Dixon, she's the host of a Tutor
Dixon podcast on the Clay and Buck Network. And you know, Tutor,
I know that in your first podcast interview, it was
with a firearms expert who was talking about responsible firearms
(32:33):
ownership and shooting skills for women, particularly to protect themselves
and their families. I wanted to know if there's anything
that came from that. I mean, I'm sure that there's
a lot of people right now who are thinking, Yeah,
obviously you can't be ever at all times, and that's
why we're talking about hardening the schools. But just an
understanding of self defense and an understanding of what the
(32:54):
possibilities are seems like a worthwhile part of the conversation
of trying to make all of us a bit safely. Yeah,
we had Rick Ectorn and it was really informative because
this is somebody who went from really only having a
hunting rifle too saying I'm gonna teach women in Detroit
to protect themselves because of a story he saw on
(33:15):
the news of a woman who died, and he said,
she didn't have to die. But we went through the
whole MSU shooting, and that was somewhat of a unique
school shooting because this is somebody who wandered on campus,
who had the prosecutor really prosecuted a crime early on,
potentially this person would never have been able to buy
(33:36):
a gun. And this is another situation where the gun
was purchased legally. All signs look like in this situation Nashville,
this gun was purchased legally. We can say we can
come up with these false solutions and say we're going
to have some gun control methods that is going to
catch the bad guys, but it doesn't no matter what
(33:57):
state we look in. And that was what Rick was
so clear out. He said, look, you have these prosecutors
that are soft on crime, they're not doing this. Why
not allow people to protect themselves? And we've had folks say, well,
if you're a teacher, why shouldn't you be allowed to
carry a gun if you want to. And I said
to my girls today, what happens if someone comes in
(34:19):
your classroom? And they said, well, the teacher has a
bat and she can stand next to the door. And
my heart sinks because I'm like, we are using a
bat against the gun. I mean, what are we going
to say that our kids are worthy of protection and
that these stories of gun control are fairy tales? And
(34:41):
this and Rick lays it out pretty clearly as to
what happened at MSU and why we should be frustrated
with these soft on crime prosecutors that are letting these
people go, letting these people back on the streets, letting
these people legally buy firearms who under the system the
way it is now, they wouldn't have been able to.
(35:02):
But that's the thing. People say, Oh, we need strict
or laws, and we actually have laws that we need
to abide by. But in this case, we've got a
mental health issue. And that's another whole issue that I
don't think we have an understanding of how to get
a handle on this, because mental health it's not like
a broken arm. It's not like you know how to
set it and get it back together. Mental health is
(35:25):
different for everybody, and we're really challenged with this mental
health issue and we're you know, in a way, we're
glorifying mental health issues right now, and how is that
helping our kids? It's confusing our kids even more. And
now we've got people going in and shooting up a
school that clearly was under mental health care and needed help.
(35:49):
But there's no monitoring system for folks like this. And
what is the answer to that. You know, I'm not
pretending that I have that answer, but I think that
we need. These are the things we need to be
morning over and greeting over and saying this has to
be top of mine, it has to be our top priority.
I don't disagree at all. You've got four, Like I said,
(36:10):
I've got three. This twenty eight year old bought seven
guns from five different dealers. She was under treatment. Her
parents say they had no idea she had bought seven guns.
She was living at home. I come back again and again,
and I'm not just saying this because you're on tutor.
(36:30):
You've got four kids. We've got every parent, grandparent known
to man out there. If your kids have emotional issues,
you need to be not only worried about their safety
with their emotional issues. You need to be worried about
other people's emotional safety and physical safety as well. There
needs to be far more I think parenting going on here.
(36:52):
I just I can't get past it. Buck, we were
talking about it last hour. She lived in the home
with her parents and they claim that she somehow hid
seven guns in the house and they had no idea.
That to me is parental failure. I'm sorry, it just is.
It's such an awkward situation because you've got clearly an adult,
but this person is living with their parents because they're
(37:14):
not capable of being an adult. Right, So at that point,
when is the parent palpable? And in Michigan you see
that the Oxford shooting, the parents are being held accountable
for the child. And I think, honestly, this is what
I think the future is. You have to be held
accountable for your child's actions. Now it is there is
(37:37):
a gray area. When the child is seventeen, sixteen, fifteen,
then you are mom and dad. When the child is
twenty seven and they're living with you, then are you responsible?
You know, if you're a roommate, are you responsible? But
you have a child that is living with you because
they have mental health issues. How do you not know this?
I can't imagine not knowing this. It's like you said,
(38:00):
it wasn't and it's not like these are tiny pistols.
We're talking about seven pretty good sized weapons you've got
in your household. And it's shocking and I just can't.
I can't let this get clouded by the politics of
all of it, because at the end of the day,
I cannot get past the fact that six people have
(38:21):
lost their lives. And once again it's going to be
out of the news cycle in a couple of days,
and maybe this one will be faster, and again there
will be no action on what we do to make
sure our most valuable, precious good is taken care of.
I mean, these are our kids. Listen to the Tutor
(38:44):
Dixon podcast on the iHeart app and it's part of
the clay in Buck podcast network. Tutor, really appreciate your
perspective and we'll talk to you again soon. Thank you
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Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. So we said we'd we'd
(40:11):
hear from our friend over Fox, Jason Chafits, Well, we'd
play the clip where he talked about the Trump interview.
Last night, I watched the whole thing. Sean did the
first really meaningful sit down with him, and I think
about six months that no one's really talked to Trump.
But this length work for quite some time. Certainly worth
(40:31):
going uh and folks tuning into it on on Fox
if you if you miss it last night. But by
the way, did we get some I want to do?
We get a bunch of calls in on this. I'm
so because I wanted them lined up, one of them
lined up before. Okay, I mean said Clay, this is
the problem. Okay, this is it. This is a challenge
that I have here. We we take we hely have
(40:54):
so many lines whatever it is, we've got, you know,
a half dozen or so phone lines we can take
at one time here, right, and if all the lines
light up with one with one opinion, there's not people
will say, well, why can't you take him or varied?
You know, we'll get we'll get a little bit of
he people say, well, you're just picking and choosing. We're
literally going with the calls that we have that I
(41:15):
have to get past the screener for topic, for being topical,
and clarity of the of the actual connection. But we're
just taking what we're getting when we put this out.
I just want to say that before we get to
some of these calls. I mean, here was the Jason
Chafits response to the Trump sit down with Hannity. In
terms of how Trump did play it, I thought Sean
(41:36):
Hannity did a good job. But I watched that and
I thought, where is Donald Trump? I voted for Donald
Trump twice, I have defended him countless times. I thought
he was horrific. I think that was the worst interview
I've seen the president too. He was whining, he was complaining,
he played the victim card time and time again, and
(41:57):
then after that he complained that you know, somebody had
endorsed was now running against him. And I thought he
was absolutely horrific. He's the former president of the United States.
Act like it. He didn't in that interview. I'm saying,
that's the that's the most uh elbows in the pain
I've ever heard Jason throw anywhere on anything. Really, maybe
(42:21):
going back to when he was in the Benghazi hearings
in Congress. He's a talented guy. I watched the interview
and I left thinking, oh, I like Donald Trump and
Sean Hannity more than I did before I sat down
and watched. The interview is like super funny and engaging
and was very thought and I thought Sean was well
(42:41):
prepared and the questions were good. And maybe it's just
that you and I watched so much and listened to
so much Trump. None of the answers really surprised me,
but I thought he did a pretty good job of
answering them in an, you know, engaging way, and I
thought he didn't dodge anything of course that Hannity was asking.
I will just say this though, I mean trying to
(43:03):
interview Trump, having done it numerous times, Clay's done it
numerous times, it is rogue elephant time. I mean, you
are Trump is going where he's going. I just you know,
people will say, why don't you jump in more? You
try to jump in on Trump more when he's in
the middle of an answer, And look, he's the former president,
he's the candidate. You know, people are gonna want to
(43:23):
hear what he has to say more than anything else obviously,
but even if you try to shape the conversation a
little bit more or follow up, Trump has just this way.
He's like a He's like a verbal steam roller. You know.
You can't you think, by the way, about the loyalty argument,
because on the one hand, I do think I can see, Okay,
(43:44):
Rod de Santis, I do believe is the governor of
Florida the first time because of Trump. That is, I
buy into Trump one hundred percent. DeSantis would not have
been elected governor of Florida in twenty eighteen without Trump.
But DeSantis then served four years as governor of Florida,
did not get the Trump endorsement at all in twenty
(44:06):
two and one by nineteen points. So I can both
simultaneously see the Trump argument of hey, I helped Ron
get his opportunity. But then when you prove that you're
really good at that job, and that you're so good
at that job that you deserve another one. Let me
give you a sports analogy. Buck, if you went out
(44:26):
and you said, hey, I know sports, you should go
draft this guy. He's going to be a really good
baseball pitcher, right, and then you go draft him and
he plays for four years in the minor leagues, and
he got his start with that team because you said
draft him, and then he ends up the day one
starter of the major league baseball team and bumps you
(44:47):
down to two. I don't think any athlete would come
out and say I thought it was really disrespectful that
he took the starting nod over me, given he got
his opportunity because of me. To say, my version of
or my feeling about about that argument is there are
people in conservative media who only do the jobs they
(45:10):
do in some cases because I reached out to them,
made connections for them, and some of them have become
very successful. I would say that three out of four
of the people that I can think of were in
that role. You know, they're like polite to me, but
there's never there's no sense of like, oh thank you,
and like there's no sense of loyalty. They've just gone
on and done their own thing. But I always say,
(45:31):
I do it for the movement, and I do it
because I like to help people. I don't do it
because I want anything in response. Now that's just trying
to help people. In our business play, isn't what's most important,
what's best for the country. Who is best for the
role right now, That to me, I think is the
overriding consideration and should be for Trump and for descantists. Now,
(45:54):
Trump obviously thinks he is, and he is ahead in
the polls, and he's the former president, and I get
at it, but I don't think it's fair to think
that somebody should be excluded from their call to service.
You know, desantists may have preyed on this a lot,
and he may feel called to it, and that's something
we're gonna be here. He hasn't even announced yet, right
so we're also having this crazy discussion about it. Let
(46:17):
me also make this analogy back, because I think it's
maybe even better than the one I just did. If
you hire somebody as an assistant coach in any sport
and they are so good that they get ahead job,
and then they end up coaching against you in the
super Bowl, you would never say I can't believe he's
trying to beat me in the super Bowl. The only
(46:38):
reason he even has a job is because I found
him when nobody else would give him a chance, And
now he's in the super Bowl because of me. How
dare he try to beat me? Like? That? Would be
a ludicrous argument for a former head coach who hired
his assistant to make and that to me is kind
of what Trump is doing here. Like I said, we're
going to close it out here by we got a
(46:58):
bunch of people on the line. If line is busy,
just know that we're going to rack and stack some
calls here. So once you hear one and we finished
that call, you can then jump in because I want
to get a diversity of perspect that word, a diversity
of perspective, d Ie. You know all this one um
and and right now I think they're all leading in
(47:21):
one direction. But it's just what do we think of
the uh, the interview last night, the Trump response, there
were some funny moments with Trump. There's a reason why
this guy was able to do what he what he
did in twenty sixteen. But I want to hear from
the folks out there, and I want to try to
always we're trying to play this as fair and square.
(47:42):
Is it Fahren square, square and fair? Thank you fare
Fahren square as we can right as we can, And
that means opening up to all of you. Um. I mean, look,
I mean I just had Jack Posolvik. We sat down
for an hour ago. Listen to Clay and Buck podcast.
Oh and we have the Is it the the president
of the Heritage Foundation's popping by. Yes, we're going to
(48:03):
be joined just a moment by Kevin Roberts. I'm up
here in in DC broadcasting literally from the Heritage Foundation offices.
So he's going to step in and say hi in
this next segment. All right, So we'll come back to
that to second Clay, what do you got for us?
In the meantime, I want to tell you all about
our friends at Hillsdale and how impactful they have been
in terms of helping to fight battles that matter so
(48:23):
much when it comes to education in our country in particular,
Hillsdale is going to make sure that they go out
and give you the best possible education everywhere. And if
you've got young kids, you know what I'm talking about
when it comes to senior ititis got kids that are
starting to finish off their senior year and Hillsdale College
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starts closing out the year on March thirteenth. That's when
commencement happens. After four years of study. Every one of
their grads will tell you it's the best place to
receive a top notch classical liberal arts education in the
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great books, history of Westernization and America, and the meaning
and history of the Constitution. Hillsdale, founded in eighteen forty
(49:05):
four to offer the kind of education needed to preserve
civil and religious liberty, holds true to that mission today
while refusing to accept one penny of taxpayer funding, not
even indirectly in the form of student grants and loans.
Hillsdale students also abide by an honor code, which ensures
a unity of purpose and foster's lively, civil and intelligent debate.
Best part, we can learn from Hillsdale for free. All
(49:27):
of us can through in Primus and by taking online
courses on American history, the Constitution, and other subjects. You
can see for yourself. Learn more about Hillsdale at Clay
and Buck four Hillsdale dot com. That's Clay and Buck
fur Hillsdale dot com. The Clay and Buck podcast deep
dives with cool content surprise guests. Get it all on
(49:51):
the iheartap or wherever you get your podcasts.
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