June 1, 2023 • 51 mins
Most of America thinks Biden is corrupt. Federal Prosecutor Andy McCarthy: nothing is too crazy to talk about. Bill O'Reilly on the anti-Trump strategy, his phone call with McCarthy, and witches! We need to be the party of jokes.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in Thursday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us. We roll through
the biggest stories across the land. Bill O'Reilly will join
us in the next hour. We'll see if he stays
committed to his idea that Joe Biden is not going
to be the nominee for the Democrat Party. He has
made that argument, he continues to make that argument. We
(00:27):
talked about it earlier this week that we would ask
him to come on and get his logic, so that
should be a fun conversation. Also, we've got updates potentially
on the Trump Department of Justice investigation that we will
get into. Both Buck and myself believe that Trump will
get charged by Joe Biden's Department of Justice because they
(00:50):
want to have him in front of courts, not only
in New York City, not only Atlanta, where it looks
like charges are going to come down, most likely sometime
in early August. But I think there's a decent chance
in the next sixty days we will get the Jack
Smith Independent Counsel report, and that will lead to I
believe charges being filed against Trump. We will discuss the
(01:12):
latest as it pertains to that, but the person who
should be charged with crimes certainly Hunter Biden. And they
tried to sort of keep Joe Biden from being directly
implicated in the massive million dollar, multimillion dollar pay days
(01:34):
that have surrounded the Biden crime family, and most of
the time in the media buck there isn't really a
discussion about just how corrupt Joe Biden is. But there
was finally. We don't get Biden himself in front of
the press very often, so it's hard to have questions
asked of him. Unfortunately, they hide him in the White
(01:55):
House as they have for most of the last two
plus years. John Kirby, however, was asked about this when
a reporter claimed, what is true that the majority of
Americans believe Joe Biden is corrupt? This is factually accurate.
Now listen to cut six.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
There's one committee trying to get an FBI final alleging
that President Biden took bribes. There's another i RS blower
who's alligiing there's a cover up in the investigation. The
middle of this, there was a Hardvard Harishole this month
that found that fifty three percent of the public, including
a pourt the Democrats, believe, quote, Joe Biden was involved
with his son in an illegal influence pedaling scheme. There's
(02:35):
of course evidence that the President interacted with this relatives
associates from China, Mexico, Kazakstan, Russia, and Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So what do you say to.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
The majority of the Americans who believe that the president
is himself corrupt?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yes, President, the president.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
The President has spoken to this.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The President has spoken to this and there's nothing to
these claims.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh, that's not true. And certainly the president really has
an addressed him in great detail. That's a fabulous question.
Buck Good and Joseph we ripped media a lot. That
was a pretty well crafted and delivered question. It was
very good.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
And the President has spoken to it in the sense
that a few times he has made claims, meaning Joe
Biden has made claims that are demonstrably false. He claimed
in the twenty twenty election cycle to know nothing of
Hunter's business dealings. We know from the laptop and from
further information that's come to light that, Yeah, Joe Biden
(03:30):
was certainly aware that hunter Biden was doing stuff. Maybe
he didn't know every detail, but I don't think Joe
Biden knows every detail of anything that's going on in
his own life, and hasn't for a while. I think
that one of the things you're seeing unfold right now
is this fight with the Oversight Committee, the House Oversight Committee,
(03:50):
and Representative Comer with Chrisopher Ray over at the FBI.
This is where you have this FD ten twenty three document.
Now I wasn't on the FBI side, obviously, so I
don't know all the different h letterings in the way
that that they collid information over the FBI. But from
the descriptions, it's effectively a raw intelligence report. That's what
(04:13):
we'd call it. Confidential human source, raw intelligence report. It's
all the same same basic thing. Someone's telling you stuff
that you haven't verified, and it just is This even
happens in background check investigation. Someone will say something about
a neighbor they don't like to, you know, to the
federal investigator, and they'll write it down, but it doesn't
mean it's necessarily true. What's interesting is why don't the
(04:34):
FBI senior why doesn't the FBI senior brass want to
share this information, it seems with Comer and with the
Oversight Committee about somebody who says that Joe Biden was
in an illegal bribery scheme. If it's ridiculous, okay, what's
the problem. Then if it's dumb, it's dumb, well why
not tell everybody so they can see it. I think
(04:56):
one of the challenges that they may have with this
clay is they started as special Council investigation of I mean,
they started first an FBI investigation, then a Special Council
investigation because George Papadopoulos shared a rumor that he had
heard at a bar in London, right, and then all
of a sudden they spin it all the way up
the top of the intelligence community. Meanwhile, Christopher Ray, the
(05:19):
head of the FBI, has confirmed that there's a document
that says that someone came forward to the FBI and
says there's an illegal influence pedaling scheme, bribery scheme with
Joe Biden, and the FBI saying, oh, no, we have
to protect this confidential human source. It's not classified. I
should note it's not classified, So what's going on there?
(05:41):
I think one of the things that it raises is
did they follow up, Clay, do they even want to
know if it's true? Over at the FBI, because I
think we all know the answer. We see what's going
on with Hunter Biden. How is it possible that you
get paid millions of dollars, you don't pay taxes on it,
you don't get prosecuted. You're a Hunter Biden. That's how
it's possible.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And Buck, what I would also say, we talked about
this some yesterday. I think this all the Biden crime family. Still,
you have to go back to Biden thinking his political
careers over, and I think he got reckless and when
he thought his political career was over and that there
was no higher office he was going to aspire to.
When Barack Obama said, you're not the choice, it's Hillary
(06:23):
old man, you're out. And again it's worth repeating, Barack
Obama never endorsed Joe Biden until he was actually the nominee,
which probably gives you a pretty good sense what Barack
Obama thought of Joe Biden after spending eight years with
him as the vice president. But Buck, I think Biden
looked around and said, well, my political career's over, Let's
(06:46):
make as much money now as we can even if
it's shady, and we don't have to worry about it
because I'm not ever going to run for office again.
Because he never anticipated, I don't think that the twenty
twenty campaign was going to fall in his lap, and
so he tried to make as much money as he
could and that's when things really the wheels came off.
That's when a lot of this data really starts to
(07:06):
blow up on him. Buck where he got messy and
it was just like, let's get rich. Everybody, bring in
as much money as possible.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
It's actually not a bad calculation at the time from
Joe Biden's perspective. Politically, he had Hillary running, that she
was the Democrat candidate, and you got to assume either
Hillary or whomever the Republican is is going to get
eight years.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
And he knew he was.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Already too old to be running in the first place.
So yeah, he figured it was cash out time. Didn't
realize that fate would Well, we all know what happened
in twenty twenty, but no one, no one could have
ever expected that. I mean, I've said this to this day.
I thought this is why I would say no one
can predict the future. Nobody really knows what's going to
happen in any of these things. That's why you just
(07:48):
do the best you can with the information you have
when you have it. I thought Joe Biden when he
started running in twenty sixteen, I was like, this is
I'm sorry, twenty twenty, I was like, this is a joke.
No serious, this person is going to vote for Joe Biden.
Well maybe they're not serious people, but some people voted
for Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Unfortunately they did it. Remember in Iowa and New Hampshire.
I think Joe Biden came in fifth in both of
those states, which is probably the biggest comeback if you
go look at Iowa New Hampshire and what it means
in terms of propulsion typically in the primary season to
come in I believe he came in fifth in Iowa
(08:27):
and fifth in New Hampshire. And then he went down
to South Carolina and James Clyburn said, this guy is
gonna be the nominee, and from there it was over.
He won South Carolina comfortably. He went out to Nevada,
I think, and did pretty well, and then just I mean,
there was no contest anymore. Everybody dropped out everybody got
in line. You know. Basically, James Clyburn said, this is
(08:50):
the guy who can beat Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders
was gone. Mayor Pete was gone, Elizabeth Warren was gone.
Kamala didn't even make it. This is why it's so
funny when they constantly trot out, Oh, the reason Kamala's
approval ratings are low is because people are racist and sexist,
and she's the first minority woman vice president. And then
you have to remind Democrats, wait a minute, your own
(09:12):
primary voters didn't even allow her to get to the primary.
She dropped out with one percent support before voting started.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
Look, part of the primary, Republican or Democrat, is we've
talked about it in the context of a campaign, a
candidate getting stronger, figuring out some of the messaging issues,
figuring out how the machinery around them has to be built.
And it's also convincing people to come along with them, right,
I mean, you know that's why you have a primary.
(09:40):
And this is this is I think something that it's
easy to forget, especially in the early stages with someone
like Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, it seemed absolutely.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
It seemed it was a completely.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Rational thing in my mind to believe that Joe Biden
running against Donald Trump was so preposterous that it defied
and sure, I'm talking about when it was the Democrat primery,
not even when he was the candidate, but just the
notion that Joe Biden could be taken seriously by anyone,
not by people listening to this, but by anyone I
(10:12):
And what I realized is I underestimated the will to
power of Democrats, and that the ruthlessness and the ability
to construct, to construct a narrative, to be opportunistic, to
create a lie of who Joe Biden is. I should
have seen it coming in a sense, should have seen
it coming.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And remember Buck, Democrats picked Joe Biden because they thought
he was the most likely to win an election, and
then they got an unbelievably good fortune in terms of
his candidacy. Because if Joe Biden had had to be
on the campaign trail like a normal candidate would for
the entire twenty twenty primary and then on into the
(10:51):
twenty twenty general election, I don't think there's any way
he would have won, Buck, because I think people would
have seen the cognitive collapse that we see on a
regular basis now that they try to hide they wouldn't
Absent COVID, they would not have been able to hide
him in the basement and claim that it was for
his own health. That's what actually got him elected, was coach.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Joe Biden in twenty twenty was the closest thing that
you could ever conjure to being generic Democrat, Like just
a Democrat. He had one hundred percent name recognition because
of eight years serving as Obama's VP. One hundred percent
name recognition. Right, everyone knew who he was. He's also
been in politics for longer than I've been alive, and
(11:31):
everyone understood that. I think on the Democrat side in
a COVID year where everybody was really freaked out and
the media was obviously fomenting that or making it much
worse than I should have otherwise, been this fabrication of
a grandfatherly figure. Remember he ran. I have to remind
myself of this some things I say out loud. I'm
(11:53):
not even reminding all of our listeners. I'm reminding myself
he ran as a uniter. Yoh yeah, right, and then
you and then you fast forward to whatever it is
you know eighteen months later and he's talking about the
unvaccinated or basically murdering people, and he was it was
a vicious thing to say then also totally wrong. But
(12:16):
this is the uniter.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I mean, the whole thing was a bait and switch.
It's it's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I understand some people just start to say, how can
we make sense of anything when people can do such
senseless things.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
What about Buck the speech that he gave with the
red backdrop, with the marine standard Darth Vader speech. Yeah,
the Darth Vader speech where you know, he basically argued
and he's continued to argue it that the country's under
a greater threat today than it was during the Civil War.
I mean, this is crazy talk. It's also we're going
to get into some more of this.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
You know, there's there's reporting out today that is from
the Washington Post, which we all know is it's the
last twenty four hours, I should say, which is it
broke last night. There's reporting out though that talks about
one of the ways now that they're that they're going
to go after Trump. And and here's what I need
to wonder.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
We are going to.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Defend Trump against this madness to the hilt, because as
I've said, as if you've said this is I think
it's ethically the right thing to do to defend Trump
against these charges. I think it's an obvious witch hunt,
and I think it's also politically the right thing to
do for a whole range of reasons. But what are
we gonna do if they actually This is the part
(13:30):
of this that I haven't yet heard or figured out,
is what's the game plan here if they're really you know,
we list just does to the people who think that,
you know, Trump is going to get indicted, what do
they think happens after that? This is the part of
it that I'm I'm thinking about this out loud. I
don't know, I speak to it. And do people think
(13:51):
that that's not going to happen at this point? They
already did want in New York as we know, No,
you can say that's a joke. When does that trial start?
March of next year? Right March twenty fourth, I believe,
or twenty fifth of next year. We know as a
fact that Trump is going to have to show up
in a court where he is a criminal defendant in
a felony case. Is it an abject you know, just
joke and a violation of the most basic precepts of law.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Yeah, of course, but what.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Are we gonna do?
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I mean, this is the part of it that I
haven't heard yet, is how do we He's got to
show up or also be in contempt at court, So
how does he campaign when they're running? And that's one
of several criminal trials that they're gonna do. So, you know,
I think there needs to be some strategizing on this one,
or someone needs to figure out how do you have
a president in waiting who's under indictment, possibly multiple indictments.
(14:39):
I just mean, but just sing's clear in terms of
the actual mechanics of letting him campaign to defeat Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Right, Yeah, it's how do you do it? I think
we'll talk about this because I think it's a big story.
I think they're going to bring charges against Trump today's
June first. I think that the Feds, not the New York,
not Atlanta. The federal government I think is going to
bring charges again Trump in JUNI or July of this year.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Can I just throw this out there next month?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Any does anybody we have some of the most ardent
Trump supporters in the primary, We're all you know, I
voted for Trump. Clay voter for Trump. We've all been
Trump supporters for a long time. But I mean, right now,
of the most ardent Trump supporters, do they think the
assessment is wrong that Trump will be indicted again? I
(15:24):
want to I'm curious about this because I honestly people
have been asking me this and I don't have a
good answer. They say, what happens, because I'm pretty sure
he's going to be indicted. I just want to know
what happens. I don't have a where the timing becomes
so key that we've talked about. And this is where
I need somebody who's an expert on the DC circuit
because that's where the charges would be brought to. Let
me know, how would the timing actually play itself out.
(15:46):
Let's talk about that, because I think it's I think
it's significant in light of the report that came out
to we've watched in post.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
We throw it to lines eight hundred two way two
two eight a two.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
If if you think this is all much you do
about nothing, and the and the special counsel is not
gonna recommend indictment, let us know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
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Speaker 1 (17:25):
As you're back, don't miss a day of the Clay
Travis and buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Walcome back in our number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
We appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Bill
O'Reilly was great at the top of the last hour.
We are joined now by Andy McCarthy, who is an
expert and helping us to break down the legal shenanigans
and pratfalls that are currently I would say sort of
(17:54):
transfixing the nation, particularly as it pertains to Donald Trump.
And Andy McCarthy, of course, former federal prosecutor in the
Southern District of New York, regular Fox News contributor. So, Andy,
I want to start with I think you're with both
Bucking and myself based on past appearances, that you believe
(18:15):
there will be federal charges brought against Trump, so that
I think you agree there. You can change. You can
tell us if you disagree, But my question for you
is what would the time frame look like for a
federal criminal trial for Donald Trump. Based on your experience,
how quickly do you think the DC Circuit could get
(18:36):
this the charges brought, could get the trial underway. What
sort of time frame in your mind are we looking
at here, Clay.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
You know, I think the one thing that the government,
meaning the Justice Department, always has complete control over is
when to indict. After that, the court really kind of
it depends on the exit tricities of the judge and
a lot of moving parts that exist here that don't
(19:06):
exist in the normal case. For example, you Trump is
facing a civil fraud trial in New York in October.
I believe that starts October third. That's the Letitia James,
State Attorney General big fraud case that they were hoping
was going to be a criminal case, but she brought
it as a civil case. And now this New York trial.
(19:29):
I know Trump is trying to get this move to
federal court. I don't think he's going to succeed in that.
The judge there has that that trial goes on March
twenty fifth of twenty twenty four, which by the way,
is two weeks after Super Tuesday. In between, we know
that the state prosecutor Fulton County Georgia has told the
(19:51):
court to clear its decks for the first two weeks
of August, so presumably she's going to bring her indictments
at that point. So I've always thought that this is
very political. This is a uniquely political justice department, and
I think they like the havoc that having Trump under these,
(20:13):
you know, investigations and charges. I think they liked the
havoc that that's playing in the Republican race.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I guess, Andy, Yeah, sorry, My question I guess is
do you think it's likely that they could get this
trial completely finished before November of twenty twenty four, or
do you expect that Trump through motioning and trying to
Let's presume he gets charged in junior July. Let's just
(20:41):
presume that happens. Is this something that could get pushed
beyond the election or are you thinking to yourself, no,
they're going to have a federal trial of Donald Trump
before November of twenty four.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
It really depends on the judge. I mean, I think
there are judges who, depending on how they also charge this.
I mean, I think he's going to charge it mainly
as an obstruction case, which is pretty straightforward. If I'm
wrong about that, and it's classified documents in the forefront
of it, then I can see a lot more motion
(21:13):
practice with respect to that, because there's all kinds of
things that come up about, you know, whether he had
the right to keep it, whether it actually was classified,
whether it matters whether it was plassified. I mean, you
can see the number of challenges there might be. Whereas
if the case is as simple as he got a
subpoena that told him to turn overall documents more classified
(21:37):
and he not only thwarted the subpoena, he provided the
grand jury with a statement that turned out to be false.
That's you know, it depends on depending on how you
charge that. You could charge that pretty straightforward. And the
other thing I think we need to bear in mind
here is we're dealing with a special counsel. So even
if he doesn't indict things, I've always thought that'll write
(22:00):
a narrative report of some kind, like, for example, I
don't think he's going to charge anything with respect to
January sixth, but I do believe he's going to write
a narrative report that lays out in painful detail all
the icky things that will be laid at Trump's feet
with respect to that, and I expect that to be
released probably like in September, before the election, if Trump
(22:22):
is still a candidate at that point.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Andy, it's buck How much of a of a real
risk do you think there is here on the obstruction
Let's say they just do obstruction on the federal level.
Is that a pretty easy thing for them to prove?
And you know, how do you see that playing out? Basically,
if he's found guilty, is it they're going they can
(22:45):
pay a fine?
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I mean, what do you think happens?
Speaker 7 (22:48):
I think people will say, Bucket, let's cut to the chase.
If he gets convicted, I think people will say, no,
one's above the law, and you know, they'll argue that
he ought to do some time, depending on what the
sentencing guidelines say, what do.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
You feel like, what could what could you do? Like
for obstruction? What could you be looking at? Is it months?
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Yeah, well he's the first offender. It would be a
five year count. The judge probably would take into account that,
you know at that point that sensitive government secrets were involved.
The Justice Department and the Democrats would push very heavily
for some prison time, and he probably gets some So
(23:29):
is that is this crazy?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Because I just want to you know, for any who's listening,
who's just you know, it's just like, oh my gosh,
is this even crazy to talk about? Or do you
think this is a is this a real thing that
you believe can happen?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Fuck?
Speaker 7 (23:44):
If he asked me a year ago, is it too
crazy to talk about a guy who's running for president,
who's looking at two trials already scheduled, with a couple
of war down the pike, I would have said, you're nuts,
that that's too crazy to contemplate. Now I've changed. I
think nothing's too crazy to contemplate.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Okay, so we're not so talking about it makes sense,
that's what I want to make sure.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Well, it's a criminal investigation. And look, this guy is
doing everything that a prosecutor would do to bring criminal charges,
including immunizing the lawyers who provided the statement to the
grand jury, which the Justice Department doesn't just Willy Nelly
immunize people. You give someone immunity because there's somebody more
(24:26):
important up the chain that you want to go after.
That's the only reason they do it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Why is this case? I got a caller question. I
sometimes I'll scan through the callers. Why is this case
in DC circuit, Given that the raid happened at mar
A Lago, that the obstruction may well have occurred at
mar A Lago, Why would this not be a Florida
court that would be hearing this as opposed to DC.
(24:51):
It's an interesting question. I'm not an expert in the procedure.
I'm curious your analysis of that.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
Because the grand jury is in d C, so the
charge would be that he's obstructing the investigation and obstructing
the grand jury. In particular, the grand juris in the
District of.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Columbia because that's an advantage that that is I think significant.
Our audience understands that the Department of Justice wants this
DC circuit, right, I mean, from your perspective, if you're
a defense attorney for a Republican president, I mean, what
are we talking about in terms of the jury pool
that they would get.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Yeah, you're you're absolutely right. They much prefer DC to Florida.
And you've mentioned the d C circuit. They much prefer
the d C circuit than say, the Eleventh Circuit, which
is a more you know, it's a the Eleventh circuits
a better mix for Trump than the d C circuit
and Andy.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
On the Atlanta prosecution is that, you know, we had
our mutual friend Bill O'Reilly on before he thinks that's
super weak, like no problem for Trump even if it's brought.
What's what's your assessment.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
I don't. From what I know about the case, I'm
very suspicious of it. And I think, in particular, like,
here's a good reason why I think that this Fanny
Willis was the district attorney is likely overplaying her hand.
Apparently central to this case is the idea of the
(26:21):
fake electors, the notion that you know, they put together
this group of electors who were who were going to
stand as Trump electors if they were able to pull
off this idea of reversing the results of the election.
But as I understand it, with these electors, they considered
themselves not stake. They considered themselves contingent. And what they
(26:44):
meant by that is if and only if Trump was
able to prevail in court to get the election undone,
or if the state legislature for whatever reason invalidated the
popular vote and substituted its own to vote for Trump,
then they would stand ready to assume a legitimate position
(27:07):
as Trump electors, and they would have to be certified
by the state. To me, that's not fake. That's a contingency.
So you know, to the extent they're building the case
on that, I think they're building it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
On sand Andy. We've talked a lot about pardons. Last week,
we had Ron DeSantis on and I asked DeSantis, Hey,
let's presume you got elected president. Would you pardon Donald
Trump in the event there are Department of Justice federal
charges brought against you. How important do you think purely
from a president perspective, both Trump and other Republican candidates
(27:41):
addressing these potential charges might make sense. And also, Trump could,
if he were elected president in November, pardon himself, right.
I don't believe we've ever seen a situation like that.
Just from a legal perspective, the president would have the ability.
Let's say a Trump got re elected to pardon himself
(28:04):
as soon as he took the oath of office in January, right,
So I mean we could and this is crazy, but
I mean, we could have a situation where Trump is
facing time in prison and he gets sworn in in January, Andy,
and he completely pardons himself from all federal charges, right
like that could be. And then I'm laying out a
hypothetical here for you. Do you see any way that
(28:27):
Biden follows the Gerald Ford president as it pertained to Nixon,
and even though it's an opposing party, might decide to
pardon himself because it's politically advantageous. Just kind of analyze
the pardon situation in general for.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Us, Well, there's no limitations on the pardon power in
terms of who can be pardoned. So there's nothing in
the constitution that says the president can't pardon himself. I
know that people push back and say, there's a you know,
there's an ancient Anglo American legal doctrine that you know,
you can't be the judge in your own cause. But
(29:03):
I think the pushback on that is that there's nothing
in the constitution that says that with respect to the
pardon power. So the only limitations on the pardon power
is it has to be a crime that's already been committed.
That is, you can't give somebody a prospective get out
of jail free card. And it only applies to federal offenses. So,
for example, Steve Bannon is now facing trial in New
(29:27):
York State, in fact, from Alvin Bragg in Manhattan in September,
based on the charge that that Trump pardoned him for
because there's a New York State analog and the pardon
doesn't doesn't affect the state prosecution. So with that in mind,
I think, you know, could Trump if he got in
(29:49):
pardon himself. I guess he could could Biden. You know,
in theory, yes, I wouldn't expect those things to happen
if I were and if I were distant, Is there
any the candidate? The way I would try to navigate
this question, which is a which is a difficult one,
would be to simply say one of the guidelines Justice
(30:10):
Department follows is that somebody who you pardon has to
seek the pardon. In other words, the idea is that
the person asks for a pardon because the person's very important.
So if I were dissant, is there anyone else, I'd say,
I'd have to table that until we see what President
Trump's position is. Is he asking to apart point?
Speaker 5 (30:32):
And you know, this is why it's why we put
out the Andy bat signal here that makes sense of
a whole range of these things. Before, but before we
let you go andy. Uh, just a very broadle It's
not usually the end. Usually you get a question from
Clay about baseball here, But I'm gonna throw at you
on is the is the rule of law in trouble
(30:52):
in a way that you haven't seen since you were
twenty three years in the Southern District as a federal prosecutor.
Do you do you feel worried about what's going on
here with the weaponization of law over politics.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
Yes, I think that the people don't. I think grasp
how important it is to the to the public legitimacy
of the law, that the public accepts that the law
is even handed. And if the public comes to believe
that we actually do have two tiers of justice, and
(31:24):
the quality of justice a person gets depends on his
or her political affiliation, then you're asking for lawlessness because
you don't have a legitimate legal system. You just have
a you know, a political hack system. And if we
lose the rule of law, we can't have a flourishing society.
So I think we make a real mistake if we
(31:45):
take for granted that like the rule of laws are
and will always be here, because a lot of it
depends on public perception and fairness and due process, and
I think we're very cavalier about that.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Andy McCarthy, everybody, Andy, we're going to be talking more.
Thanks for making the time for us today.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
All right, guys, have a great day.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
I also want to express my thanks to those of
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(32:25):
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That's Disruption twenty twenty three dot.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Com inspiring you to seek out the truth the Clay
Travis said.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Second hour of Playing Buck kicks off right now. We
have our friend Bill O'Reilly joining us. He's got eighteen
number one best selling books in his Killing series. The
latest is Killing the Legends, The Lethal Danger of Celebrity,
and he's also going to tell us about his next
book coming out in September. Maybe gives a little sneak
peek at that one.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Bill.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Ohway, appreciate you joining us. Thank you, sir. Hey you
guys doing We're okay, We're okay.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
We're trying to make sense of some pretty complicated and
I think, uh, momentous stuff here.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Let's start with this.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
When we were just talking to this, we want to
get your take on Biden, and we heard the audio
of you earlier in the week talking about where you
think the Biden situation is going. But on the on
the Trump side of things, how do you assess the
It feels like the legal jeopardy is whirling around him
a little bit and growing. Do you think he's got
a real problem or is he just going to manage to,
(34:07):
you know, knock this down like he has so many
other things.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
He's got a logistical problem. So the strategy among the
anti Trump people, and it's coordinated, is to prevent him
from running an effective campaign for president in twenty twenty four. Right,
So they're going to load him up with he's got
the New York City stuff and now that's going to
(34:34):
be heard in March of twenty four, right in the
middle of primary season. I do expect the Special Council
to indict him on the document thing, not on January sixth.
It's two weak, but on the document thing. So we'll
have to deal with that, and god knows what else
will come out. But it's a coordinating campaign to prevent
(34:56):
Trump from being able to campaign actively for president. That's
what's happening.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
How does that play, Bill? So this is we agree
with you, not only that, by the way, we think
they'll be charges in Atlanta. We think they'll try to
stack him and keep him in court as much as
they possibly can, so they don't allow him to go
out and campaign as a typical political candidate would. We
saw a rallying around Trump effect with the New York
City charges, and even a lot of left leaning people
(35:26):
had to say, hey, you know what, this is really
kind of a bogus charge that's been brought against him
in New York City. So federal charges, Atlanta charges, does
that help him in any way win a general election?
How does the electorate, so called persuadable voters respond in
your mind, Well.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I don't think that they like this. I'm generalizing now.
I don't see the Georgia stuff as a problem for
him because his lawyers will be able to delay that.
And it's very weak. It's very very similar to the
Ukraine phone call, very similar. And if she got a
very weak case, she knows she does. If this is
(36:07):
Fanny whatever her name is in Fulton County, if she
had a strong case, you would have already brought it.
Say it's a nuisance case. They'll be able to back
that up. But federal charges again on the documents, that'll
be a big deal. The New York thing, it's already
a ridiculous situation, but it's annoying. He's going to have
(36:31):
to come and answer now. As far as miss waitable
people are concerned, it's too early to tell. So the
Maga people are with him. They're not going to bail.
Although Dessanta's if he campaigns effectively, he might be able
to peel off ten percent of the MAGA people because
the Maga people will say he's got a better chance
(36:51):
to beat whatever Democrat runs possible, But the persuadable people,
we won't know until the economy plays out until early
twenty twenty four. And that's why this debt thing, this
is why McCartney McCarthy did what he did. Because McCarthy
(37:12):
knew if the Republicans eing behind this debt ceiling deal,
that the economy would wobble big time, and that the
media would blame the Republicans and the persuadables people who
don't pay close at attention and not listening to New
York Show or My show, they buy it. So McCarthy
just basically playing a long game, saying, look, we'll stop
(37:36):
the crazy spending for two years and hopefully we'll win
across the board in twenty four and then we can
go in and slash and burn the budget. And it
was I just got off the phone with him, McCarthy.
It was a smart strategy. He did the right thing
for the country and for his party. I'm not a
party guy, but I understand why he did what he did.
(37:56):
But as far as Trump is concerned, Trump is formidable.
In times of chaos, people look to a strong man.
It was one of the columns that I wrote on
Billowilly dot com. If you go throughout history, every time
you have chaos in a country, the people look for
somebody who to come in and say, I'm going to
(38:18):
knock this down right away? Would they call it? In politics?
Speaker 5 (38:27):
You're with Biden, You've said on the show before. You
still don't buy that he's going to be the eventual
Democrat running for president? Are you with that still? And
how do you see that playing out? Because we're getting
pretty deep into into the season now.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Not really. If you understand the process, so up until
the day before the convention, the Democratic convention, you can
have a new nominee come out of nowhere, and like
if Michelle Obama decides to run at the last minute,
they'll hand her the nomination and she don't have to
(39:07):
campaign or do anything. That's the way the system works.
So it's a first ballot. If there's no first ballot
and Biden's not going to campaign, he can barely get
out of bed. And I do stand behind my prediction
that he will not run, and Democrats are scrambling now
to find anybody to take his place. Nobody wants in
(39:28):
the run, Nobody Jill Jill does doctor. She wants him
to run because it's perk city for her. But the guy,
and believe me, this shoe is going to drop on
him about the Hunter Biden bribery stuff that's coming down
(39:51):
the pike, and that's going to be a much bigger
story than whatever Trump has to face.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Okay, so I think that's fascinating. When will that happen? Bucket?
I believe that it's likely Trump's going to get hit
with federal charges in June July. Do you think there's
any chance that Biden would decide to pardon Trump on
federal charges or because I think it would be a
(40:17):
political masterstroke. I don't think his brain works well enough
to come up with it himself.
Speaker 6 (40:22):
But he'll agrees with me because he's a brilliant man.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No chance in your.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Mind, the Democrats faithful hate Trump so much that they're
not going to do anything like that. I don't think you. Look,
if you read the New York Times, you will know
when Trump is going to you on how they're shaping
(40:49):
their editorials and their news coverage, which she really isn't
news coverage, by the way, anymore. So you might be right.
It might be uh in this that Trump gets this,
but that in itself isn't going to really affect the election, because,
(41:09):
as you both point out accurately, it's built into the
cake or whether they say baked into the muffin or
whatever Muffy baked in the case, it's already baked in.
All right, the fixes in the folks know they're out
to get Trump. I mean, if they put twenty percent
(41:30):
of the effort into looking into Hunter Biden and what
he did and how he did it, as they are
going through this document stuff trying to find anything, then
already there would be an indictment against Hunter Biden, and
Joe Biden would be in much more political trouble than
he is now.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Bill, do you want to tell everybody a little preview
of I know you've got a book out right now,
killing the Celebrities, but you got one coming out.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
Can you tell us about it or are we just
teasing that.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
It's really interesting because it ties right into it's Killing
the Witches. The Horror of Salem, Massachusetts out September twenty sixth,
and the first third of the book is about this
mass murder that the authorities in the Massachusetts Bay Column
he reeked upon these four people, and it's harrowing. I mean,
(42:21):
people have no idea. And we started to book on
the Mayflower, the voyage over and you have no blanken
idea what those people went through to get here. But
then the book takes a turn into how the witch
trials influenced our constitution. And Benjamin Franklin was right in
the middle of all this because he was so appalled
(42:43):
by the murders and that's what they were in Salem,
that he turned against religion. He was a Bostonian, Benjamin Franklin.
He moved to Philadelphia as an adult, all right, and
his parents were Puritans. They were the same sect that
was the witches. And Franklin, who's a genius at the
(43:03):
age of twelve, he would have been a great talk
radio host. Okay, he actually went to the house of
the chief witch hunter, Increase Mather, and it's an unbelievably
fascinating story about how we live today, goes back to
(43:24):
what happened in the executing of the twenty Witches. So
that book will be out in September.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Last question for you, Bill, you're a history guy. Buck
and I are both history guys. We hear so much
about threats to democracy and history and the right and
wrong side of history, which is always so ironic because
frequently you have no idea what the right and wrong
side of history is going to be. But I will
say this, I feel like the historians out there, and
there's so many of them that go on MSNBC and
(43:52):
CNN and try to indict Trump for how awful he
is are wildly underplaying what an unbelievable precedent it would
set for the party in power to indict its chief
political rival and try to put him in prison in
the middle of an election year. We've never seen anything
(44:13):
like this. What do you think historically this will look like? Yeah,
because I'm curious, based on the analogy you were just
drawing there with the same witch trials.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
If it was sixty ninety that hang Trump, It'd be
hanging from a tree because it's the same kind of mentality.
Trump's the devil, and the devil drove all of the
witch trials. But look, if you read my message of
the Day on Bill O'Reilly dot com, and you guys
should do that every morning, you'll see it's not a
(44:44):
danger to democracy that we are facing right now. That's coming.
But right now we're facing a collapse of the American
justice system, both criminal and civil. It is collapsing before
our eyes. And anybody who's been in Chicago or San
Francisco or LA or New York or Baltimore, on and
(45:06):
on and on, you can see it. It's there. And
that extends into the political arena. So the FBI is corrupt,
the most powerful crime agency in the world is corrupt,
openly corrupt. And I wrote killing the Mob. I know
(45:28):
more about the FBI than any human being in the country,
and I used to be a big fan, not anymore. So.
Once the justice system collapses, then you have to worry
about democracy collapsing, because then there is no standard of behavior,
(45:49):
no rights are given, no wrongs are righted, and that's
what we're looking at and I'm trying to be Paul
Revere here and say we got to stop this, and
the only way to stop it is to crush the
progressive movement. That is the only way we have to
crush them, not beat them, crush them.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
You're one hundred percent right, Bill O'Reilly, check them out,
Bill O'Reilly dot com. Look forward to talking to you
again sometime soon. We'll see whether the Biden dropping out
prediction comes true, and if it does, we'll have you
on right after.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
My thanks guys, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Thank you, Bill. Look and right now going on in
the country, no matter what political party you even support,
I think even Democrats would acknowledge this. We got a
major issue with no testosterone in this country. You know,
testosteronees down fifty percent over the last fifty years. There's
a fun Instagram account Buck and I both follow. It's
(46:48):
called Your Dad's America, and it just shows a bunch
of dudes back when people had real testosterone and all
the advertisements they used to do, they weren't running around
with dude trying to pretend to be girls trying to
get you to drink beer. Some better time in many
ways because there was testosterone in this country. Maybe you
(47:10):
don't have the same vimviggor vitality that you used to
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(48:11):
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Speaker 1 (48:16):
Helping you separate truth from fiction every single weekday. The Clay,
Travis and Buck Sexton show Rinson back.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
And forth recently with whether Twitter is really the free
speech platform free speech within the confines of the law
that many had been hoping for. Elon Musk waited on
that today said that yes, it is the case, despite
some consternation of whether the Matt Walsh Deely Wire movie
What Is a Woman?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Will be shown? But I thought this was kind of.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
A worthwhile point to make, Clay, because we see this
over and over again, is that the left has no
sense of humor, like nothing is allowed to be funny anymore.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
That continues on.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
They hate pair, they hate, for example, the Bat of
the Babylon b because it makes jokes from a conservative perspective.
Here's Elon talking about how people on the left no
sense of humor Play twenty three.
Speaker 8 (49:10):
The essence of a lot of comedy is a revealed truth,
like a hidden truth that people understand intuitively or explicitly.
And there's that, there's that sort of moment of revealed
you know, kernel of truth, of of often unacknowledged truth.
And in that unacknowledged truth is the humor. If you're
(49:30):
you know, premised, don't a lie, you can no longer
be funny because there's no revealed truth. You know, a
lot of people on the left have no sense of humor.
They're not funny. And if if there, if there's so
many no fly zones, you know that you have to
you have to avoid all the time. Then something left
to make they have fun about.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Yeah, and and and misery is a close companion for
authoritarianism and viciousness.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
So there you go. Authoritarians typically do not have great
senses of humor. The North Korea not the home of
a lot of great stand up these days, which is
why this is part of my new book book. I
spend a decent amount of time arguing Republicans should be
the party of jokes. Now, sometimes that means that you
and your party might be the butt of jokes. But
(50:18):
it's amazing to me the degree to which the left
now wants to censure comedy. And it's incredible that Republicans
have an opportunity to be the party that likes to laugh.
I would have never believed that this is possible. But
Evlon Musk is getting at that kernel of truth there
and his sit down with Seth Dylan and the Babylon
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Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in Thursday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us. We roll through
the biggest stories across the land. Bill O'Reilly will join
us in the next hour. We'll see if he stays
committed to his idea that Joe Biden is not going
to be the nominee for the Democrat Party. He has
made that argument, he continues to make that argument. We
(00:27):
talked about it earlier this week that we would ask
him to come on and get his logic, so that
should be a fun conversation. Also, we've got updates potentially
on the Trump Department of Justice investigation that we will
get into. Both Buck and myself believe that Trump will
get charged by Joe Biden's Department of Justice because they
(00:50):
want to have him in front of courts, not only
in New York City, not only Atlanta, where it looks
like charges are going to come down, most likely sometime
in early August. But I think there's a decent chance
in the next sixty days we will get the Jack
Smith Independent Counsel report, and that will lead to I
believe charges being filed against Trump. We will discuss the
(01:12):
latest as it pertains to that, but the person who
should be charged with crimes certainly Hunter Biden. And they
tried to sort of keep Joe Biden from being directly
implicated in the massive million dollar, multimillion dollar pay days
(01:34):
that have surrounded the Biden crime family, and most of
the time in the media buck there isn't really a
discussion about just how corrupt Joe Biden is. But there
was finally. We don't get Biden himself in front of
the press very often, so it's hard to have questions
asked of him. Unfortunately, they hide him in the White
(01:55):
House as they have for most of the last two
plus years. John Kirby, however, was asked about this when
a reporter claimed, what is true that the majority of
Americans believe Joe Biden is corrupt? This is factually accurate.
Now listen to cut six.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
There's one committee trying to get an FBI final alleging
that President Biden took bribes. There's another i RS blower
who's alligiing there's a cover up in the investigation. The
middle of this, there was a Hardvard Harishole this month
that found that fifty three percent of the public, including
a pourt the Democrats, believe, quote, Joe Biden was involved
with his son in an illegal influence pedaling scheme. There's
(02:35):
of course evidence that the President interacted with this relatives
associates from China, Mexico, Kazakstan, Russia, and Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So what do you say to.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
The majority of the Americans who believe that the president
is himself corrupt?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yes, President, the president.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
The President has spoken to this.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The President has spoken to this and there's nothing to
these claims.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh, that's not true. And certainly the president really has
an addressed him in great detail. That's a fabulous question.
Buck Good and Joseph we ripped media a lot. That
was a pretty well crafted and delivered question. It was
very good.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
And the President has spoken to it in the sense
that a few times he has made claims, meaning Joe
Biden has made claims that are demonstrably false. He claimed
in the twenty twenty election cycle to know nothing of
Hunter's business dealings. We know from the laptop and from
further information that's come to light that, Yeah, Joe Biden
(03:30):
was certainly aware that hunter Biden was doing stuff. Maybe
he didn't know every detail, but I don't think Joe
Biden knows every detail of anything that's going on in
his own life, and hasn't for a while. I think
that one of the things you're seeing unfold right now
is this fight with the Oversight Committee, the House Oversight Committee,
(03:50):
and Representative Comer with Chrisopher Ray over at the FBI.
This is where you have this FD ten twenty three document.
Now I wasn't on the FBI side, obviously, so I
don't know all the different h letterings in the way
that that they collid information over the FBI. But from
the descriptions, it's effectively a raw intelligence report. That's what
(04:13):
we'd call it. Confidential human source, raw intelligence report. It's
all the same same basic thing. Someone's telling you stuff
that you haven't verified, and it just is This even
happens in background check investigation. Someone will say something about
a neighbor they don't like to, you know, to the
federal investigator, and they'll write it down, but it doesn't
mean it's necessarily true. What's interesting is why don't the
(04:34):
FBI senior why doesn't the FBI senior brass want to
share this information, it seems with Comer and with the
Oversight Committee about somebody who says that Joe Biden was
in an illegal bribery scheme. If it's ridiculous, okay, what's
the problem. Then if it's dumb, it's dumb, well why
not tell everybody so they can see it. I think
(04:56):
one of the challenges that they may have with this
clay is they started as special Council investigation of I mean,
they started first an FBI investigation, then a Special Council
investigation because George Papadopoulos shared a rumor that he had
heard at a bar in London, right, and then all
of a sudden they spin it all the way up
the top of the intelligence community. Meanwhile, Christopher Ray, the
(05:19):
head of the FBI, has confirmed that there's a document
that says that someone came forward to the FBI and
says there's an illegal influence pedaling scheme, bribery scheme with
Joe Biden, and the FBI saying, oh, no, we have
to protect this confidential human source. It's not classified. I
should note it's not classified, So what's going on there?
(05:41):
I think one of the things that it raises is
did they follow up, Clay, do they even want to
know if it's true? Over at the FBI, because I
think we all know the answer. We see what's going
on with Hunter Biden. How is it possible that you
get paid millions of dollars, you don't pay taxes on it,
you don't get prosecuted. You're a Hunter Biden. That's how
it's possible.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And Buck, what I would also say, we talked about
this some yesterday. I think this all the Biden crime family. Still,
you have to go back to Biden thinking his political
careers over, and I think he got reckless and when
he thought his political career was over and that there
was no higher office he was going to aspire to.
When Barack Obama said, you're not the choice, it's Hillary
(06:23):
old man, you're out. And again it's worth repeating, Barack
Obama never endorsed Joe Biden until he was actually the nominee,
which probably gives you a pretty good sense what Barack
Obama thought of Joe Biden after spending eight years with
him as the vice president. But Buck, I think Biden
looked around and said, well, my political career's over, Let's
(06:46):
make as much money now as we can even if
it's shady, and we don't have to worry about it
because I'm not ever going to run for office again.
Because he never anticipated, I don't think that the twenty
twenty campaign was going to fall in his lap, and
so he tried to make as much money as he
could and that's when things really the wheels came off.
That's when a lot of this data really starts to
(07:06):
blow up on him. Buck where he got messy and
it was just like, let's get rich. Everybody, bring in
as much money as possible.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
It's actually not a bad calculation at the time from
Joe Biden's perspective. Politically, he had Hillary running, that she
was the Democrat candidate, and you got to assume either
Hillary or whomever the Republican is is going to get
eight years.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
And he knew he was.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Already too old to be running in the first place.
So yeah, he figured it was cash out time. Didn't
realize that fate would Well, we all know what happened
in twenty twenty, but no one, no one could have
ever expected that. I mean, I've said this to this day.
I thought this is why I would say no one
can predict the future. Nobody really knows what's going to
happen in any of these things. That's why you just
(07:48):
do the best you can with the information you have
when you have it. I thought Joe Biden when he
started running in twenty sixteen, I was like, this is
I'm sorry, twenty twenty, I was like, this is a joke.
No serious, this person is going to vote for Joe Biden.
Well maybe they're not serious people, but some people voted
for Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Unfortunately they did it. Remember in Iowa and New Hampshire.
I think Joe Biden came in fifth in both of
those states, which is probably the biggest comeback if you
go look at Iowa New Hampshire and what it means
in terms of propulsion typically in the primary season to
come in I believe he came in fifth in Iowa
(08:27):
and fifth in New Hampshire. And then he went down
to South Carolina and James Clyburn said, this guy is
gonna be the nominee, and from there it was over.
He won South Carolina comfortably. He went out to Nevada,
I think, and did pretty well, and then just I mean,
there was no contest anymore. Everybody dropped out everybody got
in line. You know. Basically, James Clyburn said, this is
(08:50):
the guy who can beat Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders
was gone. Mayor Pete was gone, Elizabeth Warren was gone.
Kamala didn't even make it. This is why it's so
funny when they constantly trot out, Oh, the reason Kamala's
approval ratings are low is because people are racist and sexist,
and she's the first minority woman vice president. And then
you have to remind Democrats, wait a minute, your own
(09:12):
primary voters didn't even allow her to get to the primary.
She dropped out with one percent support before voting started.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
Look, part of the primary, Republican or Democrat, is we've
talked about it in the context of a campaign, a
candidate getting stronger, figuring out some of the messaging issues,
figuring out how the machinery around them has to be built.
And it's also convincing people to come along with them, right,
I mean, you know that's why you have a primary.
(09:40):
And this is this is I think something that it's
easy to forget, especially in the early stages with someone
like Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, it seemed absolutely.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
It seemed it was a completely.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Rational thing in my mind to believe that Joe Biden
running against Donald Trump was so preposterous that it defied
and sure, I'm talking about when it was the Democrat primery,
not even when he was the candidate, but just the
notion that Joe Biden could be taken seriously by anyone,
not by people listening to this, but by anyone I
(10:12):
And what I realized is I underestimated the will to
power of Democrats, and that the ruthlessness and the ability
to construct, to construct a narrative, to be opportunistic, to
create a lie of who Joe Biden is. I should
have seen it coming in a sense, should have seen
it coming.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And remember Buck, Democrats picked Joe Biden because they thought
he was the most likely to win an election, and
then they got an unbelievably good fortune in terms of
his candidacy. Because if Joe Biden had had to be
on the campaign trail like a normal candidate would for
the entire twenty twenty primary and then on into the
(10:51):
twenty twenty general election, I don't think there's any way
he would have won, Buck, because I think people would
have seen the cognitive collapse that we see on a
regular basis now that they try to hide they wouldn't
Absent COVID, they would not have been able to hide
him in the basement and claim that it was for
his own health. That's what actually got him elected, was coach.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Joe Biden in twenty twenty was the closest thing that
you could ever conjure to being generic Democrat, Like just
a Democrat. He had one hundred percent name recognition because
of eight years serving as Obama's VP. One hundred percent
name recognition. Right, everyone knew who he was. He's also
been in politics for longer than I've been alive, and
(11:31):
everyone understood that. I think on the Democrat side in
a COVID year where everybody was really freaked out and
the media was obviously fomenting that or making it much
worse than I should have otherwise, been this fabrication of
a grandfatherly figure. Remember he ran. I have to remind
myself of this some things I say out loud. I'm
(11:53):
not even reminding all of our listeners. I'm reminding myself
he ran as a uniter. Yoh yeah, right, and then
you and then you fast forward to whatever it is
you know eighteen months later and he's talking about the
unvaccinated or basically murdering people, and he was it was
a vicious thing to say then also totally wrong. But
(12:16):
this is the uniter.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I mean, the whole thing was a bait and switch.
It's it's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I understand some people just start to say, how can
we make sense of anything when people can do such
senseless things.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
What about Buck the speech that he gave with the
red backdrop, with the marine standard Darth Vader speech. Yeah,
the Darth Vader speech where you know, he basically argued
and he's continued to argue it that the country's under
a greater threat today than it was during the Civil War.
I mean, this is crazy talk. It's also we're going
to get into some more of this.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
You know, there's there's reporting out today that is from
the Washington Post, which we all know is it's the
last twenty four hours, I should say, which is it
broke last night. There's reporting out though that talks about
one of the ways now that they're that they're going
to go after Trump. And and here's what I need
to wonder.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
We are going to.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Defend Trump against this madness to the hilt, because as
I've said, as if you've said this is I think
it's ethically the right thing to do to defend Trump
against these charges. I think it's an obvious witch hunt,
and I think it's also politically the right thing to
do for a whole range of reasons. But what are
we gonna do if they actually This is the part
(13:30):
of this that I haven't yet heard or figured out,
is what's the game plan here if they're really you know,
we list just does to the people who think that,
you know, Trump is going to get indicted, what do
they think happens after that? This is the part of
it that I'm I'm thinking about this out loud. I
don't know, I speak to it. And do people think
(13:51):
that that's not going to happen at this point? They
already did want in New York as we know, No,
you can say that's a joke. When does that trial start?
March of next year? Right March twenty fourth, I believe,
or twenty fifth of next year. We know as a
fact that Trump is going to have to show up
in a court where he is a criminal defendant in
a felony case. Is it an abject you know, just
joke and a violation of the most basic precepts of law.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Yeah, of course, but what.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Are we gonna do?
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I mean, this is the part of it that I
haven't heard yet, is how do we He's got to
show up or also be in contempt at court, So
how does he campaign when they're running? And that's one
of several criminal trials that they're gonna do. So, you know,
I think there needs to be some strategizing on this one,
or someone needs to figure out how do you have
a president in waiting who's under indictment, possibly multiple indictments.
(14:39):
I just mean, but just sing's clear in terms of
the actual mechanics of letting him campaign to defeat Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Right, Yeah, it's how do you do it? I think
we'll talk about this because I think it's a big story.
I think they're going to bring charges against Trump today's
June first. I think that the Feds, not the New York,
not Atlanta. The federal government I think is going to
bring charges again Trump in JUNI or July of this year.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Can I just throw this out there next month?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Any does anybody we have some of the most ardent
Trump supporters in the primary, We're all you know, I
voted for Trump. Clay voter for Trump. We've all been
Trump supporters for a long time. But I mean, right now,
of the most ardent Trump supporters, do they think the
assessment is wrong that Trump will be indicted again? I
(15:24):
want to I'm curious about this because I honestly people
have been asking me this and I don't have a
good answer. They say, what happens, because I'm pretty sure
he's going to be indicted. I just want to know
what happens. I don't have a where the timing becomes
so key that we've talked about. And this is where
I need somebody who's an expert on the DC circuit
because that's where the charges would be brought to. Let
me know, how would the timing actually play itself out.
(15:46):
Let's talk about that, because I think it's I think
it's significant in light of the report that came out
to we've watched in post.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
We throw it to lines eight hundred two way two
two eight a two.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
If if you think this is all much you do
about nothing, and the and the special counsel is not
gonna recommend indictment, let us know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
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Speaker 1 (17:25):
As you're back, don't miss a day of the Clay
Travis and buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Walcome back in our number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
We appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Bill
O'Reilly was great at the top of the last hour.
We are joined now by Andy McCarthy, who is an
expert and helping us to break down the legal shenanigans
and pratfalls that are currently I would say sort of
(17:54):
transfixing the nation, particularly as it pertains to Donald Trump.
And Andy McCarthy, of course, former federal prosecutor in the
Southern District of New York, regular Fox News contributor. So, Andy,
I want to start with I think you're with both
Bucking and myself based on past appearances, that you believe
(18:15):
there will be federal charges brought against Trump, so that
I think you agree there. You can change. You can
tell us if you disagree, But my question for you
is what would the time frame look like for a
federal criminal trial for Donald Trump. Based on your experience,
how quickly do you think the DC Circuit could get
(18:36):
this the charges brought, could get the trial underway. What
sort of time frame in your mind are we looking
at here, Clay.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
You know, I think the one thing that the government,
meaning the Justice Department, always has complete control over is
when to indict. After that, the court really kind of
it depends on the exit tricities of the judge and
a lot of moving parts that exist here that don't
(19:06):
exist in the normal case. For example, you Trump is
facing a civil fraud trial in New York in October.
I believe that starts October third. That's the Letitia James,
State Attorney General big fraud case that they were hoping
was going to be a criminal case, but she brought
it as a civil case. And now this New York trial.
(19:29):
I know Trump is trying to get this move to
federal court. I don't think he's going to succeed in that.
The judge there has that that trial goes on March
twenty fifth of twenty twenty four, which by the way,
is two weeks after Super Tuesday. In between, we know
that the state prosecutor Fulton County Georgia has told the
(19:51):
court to clear its decks for the first two weeks
of August, so presumably she's going to bring her indictments
at that point. So I've always thought that this is
very political. This is a uniquely political justice department, and
I think they like the havoc that having Trump under these,
(20:13):
you know, investigations and charges. I think they liked the
havoc that that's playing in the Republican race.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I guess, Andy, Yeah, sorry, My question I guess is
do you think it's likely that they could get this
trial completely finished before November of twenty twenty four, or
do you expect that Trump through motioning and trying to
Let's presume he gets charged in junior July. Let's just
(20:41):
presume that happens. Is this something that could get pushed
beyond the election or are you thinking to yourself, no,
they're going to have a federal trial of Donald Trump
before November of twenty four.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
It really depends on the judge. I mean, I think
there are judges who, depending on how they also charge this.
I mean, I think he's going to charge it mainly
as an obstruction case, which is pretty straightforward. If I'm
wrong about that, and it's classified documents in the forefront
of it, then I can see a lot more motion
(21:13):
practice with respect to that, because there's all kinds of
things that come up about, you know, whether he had
the right to keep it, whether it actually was classified,
whether it matters whether it was plassified. I mean, you
can see the number of challenges there might be. Whereas
if the case is as simple as he got a
subpoena that told him to turn overall documents more classified
(21:37):
and he not only thwarted the subpoena, he provided the
grand jury with a statement that turned out to be false.
That's you know, it depends on depending on how you
charge that. You could charge that pretty straightforward. And the
other thing I think we need to bear in mind
here is we're dealing with a special counsel. So even
if he doesn't indict things, I've always thought that'll write
(22:00):
a narrative report of some kind, like, for example, I
don't think he's going to charge anything with respect to
January sixth, but I do believe he's going to write
a narrative report that lays out in painful detail all
the icky things that will be laid at Trump's feet
with respect to that, and I expect that to be
released probably like in September, before the election, if Trump
(22:22):
is still a candidate at that point.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Andy, it's buck How much of a of a real
risk do you think there is here on the obstruction
Let's say they just do obstruction on the federal level.
Is that a pretty easy thing for them to prove?
And you know, how do you see that playing out? Basically,
if he's found guilty, is it they're going they can
(22:45):
pay a fine?
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I mean, what do you think happens?
Speaker 7 (22:48):
I think people will say, Bucket, let's cut to the chase.
If he gets convicted, I think people will say, no,
one's above the law, and you know, they'll argue that
he ought to do some time, depending on what the
sentencing guidelines say, what do.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
You feel like, what could what could you do? Like
for obstruction? What could you be looking at? Is it months?
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Yeah, well he's the first offender. It would be a
five year count. The judge probably would take into account that,
you know at that point that sensitive government secrets were involved.
The Justice Department and the Democrats would push very heavily
for some prison time, and he probably gets some So
(23:29):
is that is this crazy?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Because I just want to you know, for any who's listening,
who's just you know, it's just like, oh my gosh,
is this even crazy to talk about? Or do you
think this is a is this a real thing that
you believe can happen?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Fuck?
Speaker 7 (23:44):
If he asked me a year ago, is it too
crazy to talk about a guy who's running for president,
who's looking at two trials already scheduled, with a couple
of war down the pike, I would have said, you're nuts,
that that's too crazy to contemplate. Now I've changed. I
think nothing's too crazy to contemplate.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Okay, so we're not so talking about it makes sense,
that's what I want to make sure.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Well, it's a criminal investigation. And look, this guy is
doing everything that a prosecutor would do to bring criminal charges,
including immunizing the lawyers who provided the statement to the
grand jury, which the Justice Department doesn't just Willy Nelly
immunize people. You give someone immunity because there's somebody more
(24:26):
important up the chain that you want to go after.
That's the only reason they do it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Why is this case? I got a caller question. I
sometimes I'll scan through the callers. Why is this case
in DC circuit, Given that the raid happened at mar
A Lago, that the obstruction may well have occurred at
mar A Lago, Why would this not be a Florida
court that would be hearing this as opposed to DC.
(24:51):
It's an interesting question. I'm not an expert in the procedure.
I'm curious your analysis of that.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
Because the grand jury is in d C, so the
charge would be that he's obstructing the investigation and obstructing
the grand jury. In particular, the grand juris in the
District of.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Columbia because that's an advantage that that is I think significant.
Our audience understands that the Department of Justice wants this
DC circuit, right, I mean, from your perspective, if you're
a defense attorney for a Republican president, I mean, what
are we talking about in terms of the jury pool
that they would get.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Yeah, you're you're absolutely right. They much prefer DC to Florida.
And you've mentioned the d C circuit. They much prefer
the d C circuit than say, the Eleventh Circuit, which
is a more you know, it's a the Eleventh circuits
a better mix for Trump than the d C circuit
and Andy.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
On the Atlanta prosecution is that, you know, we had
our mutual friend Bill O'Reilly on before he thinks that's
super weak, like no problem for Trump even if it's brought.
What's what's your assessment.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
I don't. From what I know about the case, I'm
very suspicious of it. And I think, in particular, like,
here's a good reason why I think that this Fanny
Willis was the district attorney is likely overplaying her hand.
Apparently central to this case is the idea of the
(26:21):
fake electors, the notion that you know, they put together
this group of electors who were who were going to
stand as Trump electors if they were able to pull
off this idea of reversing the results of the election.
But as I understand it, with these electors, they considered
themselves not stake. They considered themselves contingent. And what they
(26:44):
meant by that is if and only if Trump was
able to prevail in court to get the election undone,
or if the state legislature for whatever reason invalidated the
popular vote and substituted its own to vote for Trump,
then they would stand ready to assume a legitimate position
(27:07):
as Trump electors, and they would have to be certified
by the state. To me, that's not fake. That's a contingency.
So you know, to the extent they're building the case
on that, I think they're building it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
On sand Andy. We've talked a lot about pardons. Last week,
we had Ron DeSantis on and I asked DeSantis, Hey,
let's presume you got elected president. Would you pardon Donald
Trump in the event there are Department of Justice federal
charges brought against you. How important do you think purely
from a president perspective, both Trump and other Republican candidates
(27:41):
addressing these potential charges might make sense. And also, Trump could,
if he were elected president in November, pardon himself, right.
I don't believe we've ever seen a situation like that.
Just from a legal perspective, the president would have the ability.
Let's say a Trump got re elected to pardon himself
(28:04):
as soon as he took the oath of office in January, right,
So I mean we could and this is crazy, but
I mean, we could have a situation where Trump is
facing time in prison and he gets sworn in in January, Andy,
and he completely pardons himself from all federal charges, right
like that could be. And then I'm laying out a
hypothetical here for you. Do you see any way that
(28:27):
Biden follows the Gerald Ford president as it pertained to Nixon,
and even though it's an opposing party, might decide to
pardon himself because it's politically advantageous. Just kind of analyze
the pardon situation in general for.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Us, Well, there's no limitations on the pardon power in
terms of who can be pardoned. So there's nothing in
the constitution that says the president can't pardon himself. I
know that people push back and say, there's a you know,
there's an ancient Anglo American legal doctrine that you know,
you can't be the judge in your own cause. But
(29:03):
I think the pushback on that is that there's nothing
in the constitution that says that with respect to the
pardon power. So the only limitations on the pardon power
is it has to be a crime that's already been committed.
That is, you can't give somebody a prospective get out
of jail free card. And it only applies to federal offenses. So,
for example, Steve Bannon is now facing trial in New
(29:27):
York State, in fact, from Alvin Bragg in Manhattan in September,
based on the charge that that Trump pardoned him for
because there's a New York State analog and the pardon
doesn't doesn't affect the state prosecution. So with that in mind,
I think, you know, could Trump if he got in
(29:49):
pardon himself. I guess he could could Biden. You know,
in theory, yes, I wouldn't expect those things to happen
if I were and if I were distant, Is there
any the candidate? The way I would try to navigate
this question, which is a which is a difficult one,
would be to simply say one of the guidelines Justice
(30:10):
Department follows is that somebody who you pardon has to
seek the pardon. In other words, the idea is that
the person asks for a pardon because the person's very important.
So if I were dissant, is there anyone else, I'd say,
I'd have to table that until we see what President
Trump's position is. Is he asking to apart point?
Speaker 5 (30:32):
And you know, this is why it's why we put
out the Andy bat signal here that makes sense of
a whole range of these things. Before, but before we
let you go andy. Uh, just a very broadle It's
not usually the end. Usually you get a question from
Clay about baseball here, But I'm gonna throw at you
on is the is the rule of law in trouble
(30:52):
in a way that you haven't seen since you were
twenty three years in the Southern District as a federal prosecutor.
Do you do you feel worried about what's going on
here with the weaponization of law over politics.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
Yes, I think that the people don't. I think grasp
how important it is to the to the public legitimacy
of the law, that the public accepts that the law
is even handed. And if the public comes to believe
that we actually do have two tiers of justice, and
(31:24):
the quality of justice a person gets depends on his
or her political affiliation, then you're asking for lawlessness because
you don't have a legitimate legal system. You just have
a you know, a political hack system. And if we
lose the rule of law, we can't have a flourishing society.
So I think we make a real mistake if we
(31:45):
take for granted that like the rule of laws are
and will always be here, because a lot of it
depends on public perception and fairness and due process, and
I think we're very cavalier about that.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Andy McCarthy, everybody, Andy, we're going to be talking more.
Thanks for making the time for us today.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
All right, guys, have a great day.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
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Speaker 1 (33:04):
Com inspiring you to seek out the truth the Clay
Travis said.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Second hour of Playing Buck kicks off right now. We
have our friend Bill O'Reilly joining us. He's got eighteen
number one best selling books in his Killing series. The
latest is Killing the Legends, The Lethal Danger of Celebrity,
and he's also going to tell us about his next
book coming out in September. Maybe gives a little sneak
peek at that one.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Bill.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Ohway, appreciate you joining us. Thank you, sir. Hey you
guys doing We're okay, We're okay.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
We're trying to make sense of some pretty complicated and
I think, uh, momentous stuff here.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Let's start with this.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
When we were just talking to this, we want to
get your take on Biden, and we heard the audio
of you earlier in the week talking about where you
think the Biden situation is going. But on the on
the Trump side of things, how do you assess the
It feels like the legal jeopardy is whirling around him
a little bit and growing. Do you think he's got
a real problem or is he just going to manage to,
(34:07):
you know, knock this down like he has so many
other things.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
He's got a logistical problem. So the strategy among the
anti Trump people, and it's coordinated, is to prevent him
from running an effective campaign for president in twenty twenty four. Right,
So they're going to load him up with he's got
the New York City stuff and now that's going to
(34:34):
be heard in March of twenty four, right in the
middle of primary season. I do expect the Special Council
to indict him on the document thing, not on January sixth.
It's two weak, but on the document thing. So we'll
have to deal with that, and god knows what else
will come out. But it's a coordinating campaign to prevent
(34:56):
Trump from being able to campaign actively for president. That's
what's happening.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
How does that play, Bill? So this is we agree
with you, not only that, by the way, we think
they'll be charges in Atlanta. We think they'll try to
stack him and keep him in court as much as
they possibly can, so they don't allow him to go
out and campaign as a typical political candidate would. We
saw a rallying around Trump effect with the New York
City charges, and even a lot of left leaning people
(35:26):
had to say, hey, you know what, this is really
kind of a bogus charge that's been brought against him
in New York City. So federal charges, Atlanta charges, does
that help him in any way win a general election?
How does the electorate, so called persuadable voters respond in
your mind, Well.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I don't think that they like this. I'm generalizing now.
I don't see the Georgia stuff as a problem for
him because his lawyers will be able to delay that.
And it's very weak. It's very very similar to the
Ukraine phone call, very similar. And if she got a
very weak case, she knows she does. If this is
(36:07):
Fanny whatever her name is in Fulton County, if she
had a strong case, you would have already brought it.
Say it's a nuisance case. They'll be able to back
that up. But federal charges again on the documents, that'll
be a big deal. The New York thing, it's already
a ridiculous situation, but it's annoying. He's going to have
(36:31):
to come and answer now. As far as miss waitable
people are concerned, it's too early to tell. So the
Maga people are with him. They're not going to bail.
Although Dessanta's if he campaigns effectively, he might be able
to peel off ten percent of the MAGA people because
the Maga people will say he's got a better chance
(36:51):
to beat whatever Democrat runs possible, But the persuadable people,
we won't know until the economy plays out until early
twenty twenty four. And that's why this debt thing, this
is why McCartney McCarthy did what he did. Because McCarthy
(37:12):
knew if the Republicans eing behind this debt ceiling deal,
that the economy would wobble big time, and that the
media would blame the Republicans and the persuadables people who
don't pay close at attention and not listening to New
York Show or My show, they buy it. So McCarthy
just basically playing a long game, saying, look, we'll stop
(37:36):
the crazy spending for two years and hopefully we'll win
across the board in twenty four and then we can
go in and slash and burn the budget. And it
was I just got off the phone with him, McCarthy.
It was a smart strategy. He did the right thing
for the country and for his party. I'm not a
party guy, but I understand why he did what he did.
(37:56):
But as far as Trump is concerned, Trump is formidable.
In times of chaos, people look to a strong man.
It was one of the columns that I wrote on
Billowilly dot com. If you go throughout history, every time
you have chaos in a country, the people look for
somebody who to come in and say, I'm going to
(38:18):
knock this down right away? Would they call it? In politics?
Speaker 5 (38:27):
You're with Biden, You've said on the show before. You
still don't buy that he's going to be the eventual
Democrat running for president? Are you with that still? And
how do you see that playing out? Because we're getting
pretty deep into into the season now.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Not really. If you understand the process, so up until
the day before the convention, the Democratic convention, you can
have a new nominee come out of nowhere, and like
if Michelle Obama decides to run at the last minute,
they'll hand her the nomination and she don't have to
(39:07):
campaign or do anything. That's the way the system works.
So it's a first ballot. If there's no first ballot
and Biden's not going to campaign, he can barely get
out of bed. And I do stand behind my prediction
that he will not run, and Democrats are scrambling now
to find anybody to take his place. Nobody wants in
(39:28):
the run, Nobody Jill Jill does doctor. She wants him
to run because it's perk city for her. But the guy,
and believe me, this shoe is going to drop on
him about the Hunter Biden bribery stuff that's coming down
(39:51):
the pike, and that's going to be a much bigger
story than whatever Trump has to face.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Okay, so I think that's fascinating. When will that happen? Bucket?
I believe that it's likely Trump's going to get hit
with federal charges in June July. Do you think there's
any chance that Biden would decide to pardon Trump on
federal charges or because I think it would be a
(40:17):
political masterstroke. I don't think his brain works well enough
to come up with it himself.
Speaker 6 (40:22):
But he'll agrees with me because he's a brilliant man.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No chance in your.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Mind, the Democrats faithful hate Trump so much that they're
not going to do anything like that. I don't think you. Look,
if you read the New York Times, you will know
when Trump is going to you on how they're shaping
(40:49):
their editorials and their news coverage, which she really isn't
news coverage, by the way, anymore. So you might be right.
It might be uh in this that Trump gets this,
but that in itself isn't going to really affect the election, because,
(41:09):
as you both point out accurately, it's built into the
cake or whether they say baked into the muffin or
whatever Muffy baked in the case, it's already baked in.
All right, the fixes in the folks know they're out
to get Trump. I mean, if they put twenty percent
(41:30):
of the effort into looking into Hunter Biden and what
he did and how he did it, as they are
going through this document stuff trying to find anything, then
already there would be an indictment against Hunter Biden, and
Joe Biden would be in much more political trouble than
he is now.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Bill, do you want to tell everybody a little preview
of I know you've got a book out right now,
killing the Celebrities, but you got one coming out.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
Can you tell us about it or are we just
teasing that.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
It's really interesting because it ties right into it's Killing
the Witches. The Horror of Salem, Massachusetts out September twenty sixth,
and the first third of the book is about this
mass murder that the authorities in the Massachusetts Bay Column
he reeked upon these four people, and it's harrowing. I mean,
(42:21):
people have no idea. And we started to book on
the Mayflower, the voyage over and you have no blanken
idea what those people went through to get here. But
then the book takes a turn into how the witch
trials influenced our constitution. And Benjamin Franklin was right in
the middle of all this because he was so appalled
(42:43):
by the murders and that's what they were in Salem,
that he turned against religion. He was a Bostonian, Benjamin Franklin.
He moved to Philadelphia as an adult, all right, and
his parents were Puritans. They were the same sect that
was the witches. And Franklin, who's a genius at the
(43:03):
age of twelve, he would have been a great talk
radio host. Okay, he actually went to the house of
the chief witch hunter, Increase Mather, and it's an unbelievably
fascinating story about how we live today, goes back to
(43:24):
what happened in the executing of the twenty Witches. So
that book will be out in September.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Last question for you, Bill, you're a history guy. Buck
and I are both history guys. We hear so much
about threats to democracy and history and the right and
wrong side of history, which is always so ironic because
frequently you have no idea what the right and wrong
side of history is going to be. But I will
say this, I feel like the historians out there, and
there's so many of them that go on MSNBC and
(43:52):
CNN and try to indict Trump for how awful he
is are wildly underplaying what an unbelievable precedent it would
set for the party in power to indict its chief
political rival and try to put him in prison in
the middle of an election year. We've never seen anything
(44:13):
like this. What do you think historically this will look like? Yeah,
because I'm curious, based on the analogy you were just
drawing there with the same witch trials.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
If it was sixty ninety that hang Trump, It'd be
hanging from a tree because it's the same kind of mentality.
Trump's the devil, and the devil drove all of the
witch trials. But look, if you read my message of
the Day on Bill O'Reilly dot com, and you guys
should do that every morning, you'll see it's not a
(44:44):
danger to democracy that we are facing right now. That's coming.
But right now we're facing a collapse of the American
justice system, both criminal and civil. It is collapsing before
our eyes. And anybody who's been in Chicago or San
Francisco or LA or New York or Baltimore, on and
(45:06):
on and on, you can see it. It's there. And
that extends into the political arena. So the FBI is corrupt,
the most powerful crime agency in the world is corrupt,
openly corrupt. And I wrote killing the Mob. I know
(45:28):
more about the FBI than any human being in the country,
and I used to be a big fan, not anymore. So.
Once the justice system collapses, then you have to worry
about democracy collapsing, because then there is no standard of behavior,
(45:49):
no rights are given, no wrongs are righted, and that's
what we're looking at and I'm trying to be Paul
Revere here and say we got to stop this, and
the only way to stop it is to crush the
progressive movement. That is the only way we have to
crush them, not beat them, crush them.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
You're one hundred percent right, Bill O'Reilly, check them out,
Bill O'Reilly dot com. Look forward to talking to you
again sometime soon. We'll see whether the Biden dropping out
prediction comes true, and if it does, we'll have you
on right after.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
My thanks guys, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Thank you, Bill. Look and right now going on in
the country, no matter what political party you even support,
I think even Democrats would acknowledge this. We got a
major issue with no testosterone in this country. You know,
testosteronees down fifty percent over the last fifty years. There's
a fun Instagram account Buck and I both follow. It's
(46:48):
called Your Dad's America, and it just shows a bunch
of dudes back when people had real testosterone and all
the advertisements they used to do, they weren't running around
with dude trying to pretend to be girls trying to
get you to drink beer. Some better time in many
ways because there was testosterone in this country. Maybe you
(47:10):
don't have the same vimviggor vitality that you used to
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Speaker 1 (48:16):
Helping you separate truth from fiction every single weekday. The Clay,
Travis and Buck Sexton show Rinson back.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
And forth recently with whether Twitter is really the free
speech platform free speech within the confines of the law
that many had been hoping for. Elon Musk waited on
that today said that yes, it is the case, despite
some consternation of whether the Matt Walsh Deely Wire movie
What Is a Woman?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Will be shown? But I thought this was kind of.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
A worthwhile point to make, Clay, because we see this
over and over again, is that the left has no
sense of humor, like nothing is allowed to be funny anymore.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
That continues on.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
They hate pair, they hate, for example, the Bat of
the Babylon b because it makes jokes from a conservative perspective.
Here's Elon talking about how people on the left no
sense of humor Play twenty three.
Speaker 8 (49:10):
The essence of a lot of comedy is a revealed truth,
like a hidden truth that people understand intuitively or explicitly.
And there's that, there's that sort of moment of revealed
you know, kernel of truth, of of often unacknowledged truth.
And in that unacknowledged truth is the humor. If you're
(49:30):
you know, premised, don't a lie, you can no longer
be funny because there's no revealed truth. You know, a
lot of people on the left have no sense of humor.
They're not funny. And if if there, if there's so
many no fly zones, you know that you have to
you have to avoid all the time. Then something left
to make they have fun about.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Yeah, and and and misery is a close companion for
authoritarianism and viciousness.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
So there you go. Authoritarians typically do not have great
senses of humor. The North Korea not the home of
a lot of great stand up these days, which is
why this is part of my new book book. I
spend a decent amount of time arguing Republicans should be
the party of jokes. Now, sometimes that means that you
and your party might be the butt of jokes. But
(50:18):
it's amazing to me the degree to which the left
now wants to censure comedy. And it's incredible that Republicans
have an opportunity to be the party that likes to laugh.
I would have never believed that this is possible. But
Evlon Musk is getting at that kernel of truth there
and his sit down with Seth Dylan and the Babylon
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