May 20, 2024 • 36 mins
Iranian president and foreign minister die in helicopter crash. Cohen admits on stand to stealing $30,000 from Trump. Judge says summations will begin next Tuesday. MSNBC, CNN telling audiences the truth about the weakness of the case against Trump? Cohen made $4M in consulting fees after Trump elected president. C&B take calls.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in Monday edition Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us as we fight
the battle truth and justice across the fruited planes. I
am Clay Travis. He is buck Sexton. I am up
in Washington, d C. For the next couple of days.
We've got several senators who will be swinging by in
(00:21):
person to talk with all of you, including our good
friend Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who will join us
at one point thirty here in the DC studio, Bill
Haggerty of Tennessee in the third hour of the program,
both in person. We'll haverow tomorrow some more good guests
in person. Buck is down in Miami. A couple of
(00:43):
things that are worth hitting as we begin the show.
Iron's president dies in a helicopter crash. Pretty crazy the
way that that story played out. We'll see if there
ends up being any sort of nefarious allegations about how
that happened, but so far it appears that the helicopter
went down in awful weather conditions.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So we'll you also the foreign minister. So yeah, I mean,
this is like the president and the Secretary of State
equivalent in Iran dead in a helicopters.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So do you think you've flown a lot in helicopters,
And certainly for anybody out there who has flown in helicopters,
you always hear that they're way more dangerous than an
airplane would be. Do you when you hear this, buck,
does your antennae as a former CIA person go up
and you think there's something more to this than just
a helicopter accident? Or is your inclination that this would
(01:37):
be such a major thing to attempt to do as
you just mentioned President and Secretary of State effectively both
going down in the same helicopter, that this would be
hard even too aggressive for someone who is an anti
Iranian actor to even attempt.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, I think that this is a function of the
Iranian government is incompet There have been sanctions for a
long time that make it harder for them to get
good aviation equipment of all kinds.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just keep that in mind. I mean, they let me.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Look at their military. The stuff that they're generally operating
with is crappy. I mean, if you told me that
I had to get up, you know, it's one thing
to get up in a US military blackhawk, you've got
high level training, the best technology you're going to get
up in an Iranian government helicopter. I mean, good luck
and this is just I think, horrible luck for the
Iranian regime, good luck for the rest of the world.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So there's that, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I mean, people could talk about poetic justice and all
the rest of it, but I don't see this as
there's no basis to believe that it is sabotage. There's
plenty of basis to believe that the Iranians can't fly
a helicopter, even for their own president. You know, for
people out there who are wondering the Ayatola is still
(02:52):
the supreme leader.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
He's eighty five years old.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
But this was a guy that many people had thought
was potentially going to be his successor. Sixty three years
old the Iranian president who died, and a lot of
Iranians celebrated his death because he's considered the butcher of Iran,
because he has been so aggressive in stifling any kind
of descent that has occurred in that country that they
said he's responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands
(03:17):
of Iranian people. So there were some videos that were
starting to circulate as this news became more prominent of
Iranian people celebrating this guy's death, So that occurred out there.
I'll mention you discussed the dangers of helicopters. I think
I've mentioned this on the show if I haven't before.
My uncle who served during Vietnam Buck his job was,
(03:41):
he was in Vietnam and he was in charge of
all helicopter repairs in his particular base where there were
regularly raids going out, and they as the helicopter repairman
at that point in time, and I would imagine they
probably still have similar rules. When you repaired the helicopter,
(04:02):
your crew was the first one to go up in
the helicopter to test it. So I always it was
a little bit like in the.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Skydiving community, you always pack your own shoot, you know
what I mean. Yeah, you are the only one in
charge of your shoot because you are the one that
cares the most, and if you're going to be the
ones doing the repairs, you're gonna care a lot about
it if you go up in it first. Afterwards, no doubt,
if you were willing to cut corners in any way,
which you shouldn't be doing when you have to be
the first group that's going up in that helicopter. He said,
(04:32):
they were incredibly diligent, as you can well imagine during
the time that he was serving. Thanks by the way
to my uncle Kenneth, who is over eighty now doing well,
but served the country during Vietnam as a helicopter repairman
in Vietnam, okay, helicopter gunman by the way, which you know,
or like a helicopter crew chief. I think was one
(04:55):
of the highest percentage casualty jobs the US had in
Vietnam in that whole war. It was very, very high
casualty rate for the guy, you know, basically the door guns. Yeah,
it's terrifying to think about. Honestly, when you contemplate you're
flying over the jungles like they were all the time,
you can't see very much oftentimes not great optics, and
you're making a lot of noise and everybody knows that
(05:17):
you are coming. So he's told a lot of stories
about that over the years. A couple of other stories
that are out there that we're going to dive into.
I mentioned the Harvard Harris poll. Trump up six.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I believe it's the biggest lead he's ever had in
his political career in that Harvard Harris poll. We will discuss,
but buck. Right now, Michael Cohen's cross examination continues, and
Todd Blanche, the Trump defense attorney, is absolutely eviscerating him
on the stand.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I'm not sure again, we talked a lot about this
whether there are enough honest jurors to actually apply the
law here. But if there are, we at least have
one situation where we have finally proved and that a
crime did take place. Michael Cohen admits on the witness
stand in the last hour or so that he stole
(06:08):
thirty thousand dollars from the Trump organization. He is a thief.
We already know that he is a felon. Here is
cut nineteen, MSNBC having to tell their audience, oh, the
government star witness. Yeah, he just admitted that he stole
thirty thousand dollars from the Trump organization.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Listen, let me read for you the exchange between Todd
Blanche and Michael Cohen. So you only gave him twenty
thousand dollars and you took thirty thousand dollars, Blanch, you
stole from the Trump organization. Right, Cohen says, yes, sir,
Blanche goes on later on, he says, you did steal
from the Trump organization based upon the expected reimbursement, correct,
(06:47):
And he says, yes, sir, so again that is breaking
it out because essentially they walked through what it is
that Michael Cohen actually paid Rentfedge. And this goes back
to hose what you were just talking about in this
brown paper bag all cash. He came to the Trump
organization an individual who work for Redfinch to collect this
payment twenty thousand dollars in which Michael Cohen paid.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Out to this individual.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
The other thirty thousand dollars Michael Cohen kept to himself. Subsequently,
why Tom Blanch is now saying, okay, so you stole
from the Trump organization, correct? And Michael Cohen says yes, correct.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Buck Okay, I mean for the star witness to admit
on the witness stand that he is, in addition to
all the other lies that he has told, that he
directly stole from the Trump organization, I don't see how
any juror can consider him to be remotely trustworthy on
any level.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
This whole case is collapsing. Well, here's the thing, Clay,
Yes it should. It should collapse. It also should have
been thrown out by the judge. It also should never
have been brought. It also is insane, right, I mean,
when you're looking at what's going on.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
In New York City, it is really it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I think in essence becomes an extra judicial process because
it's all about politics and not about what's actually happening
with the law.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It has been up to this point.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The prosecutors and judges and Judge Murchand have shown us
that and a normal circumstance, in normal order, a normal trial.
If your star witness and no one disagrees that he
is the you could not make this case without Michael Cohen.
I mean, if this was a murder, he's the eyewitness
(08:24):
to the shooting, right, But as we know, it's the
opposite of a murder. It's a bank records like dispute.
The whole thing, I mean, our business records dispute. The
whole thing is absolutely absurd. But without Michael Cohen, there
is no case. And if you had any other legal
proceeding in Clay, correct me if I'm wrong or you
disagree with this, if your star witness, without whom there
(08:45):
wouldn't even be an indictment, was shown to be a
liar under oath in this trial, a proven and admitted
serial liar in other circumstances, a convicted felon, a disbarred lawyer,
and he just admitted to being a lawyer who steals
money from.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
His client, a client that at the time he thought
of like.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
A father figure. I think the case is gone, right,
I think it's all over. But I don't think this
case has gone and all over. I think it's weaker,
but I'm still I still think it's way too early
to celebrate and count out the possibility of a guilty
verdict on sheer politics.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
This is why the federal government chose not to bring
these charges. They investigated this for years, and ultimately they
couldn't get pass that Michael Cohen was the lynchpin, the
star witness, the individual who was going to be able
to prove or not prove that a crime had occurred.
(09:48):
And they just said, we don't believe that a jury
is going to find him compelling or trustworthy enough to
bring these charges. And that's not working. Under the assumption
that the federal government was wanting to give Trump the
benefit of the doubt. Right in New York the federal
government wanted to get Trump as much as Jack Smith does.
(10:09):
I walked past in DC this morning, buck right past
the Department of Justice sitting across the street from the FBI.
That was my walk from the hotel this morning, and
I just paused there and set for a minute and
looked at that incongruity that could be taking place right
now within the shadow effectively of both the White House
and the Capital Dome. And the fact that the federal
(10:33):
government in New York City said, no, we can't do this,
we don't have a strong enough case, is exactly what
we're seeing take place with Michael Cohen right now. And
Michael Cohen has tried to buck portray himself as a victim.
When we come back in a couple of minutes. Here,
I want to run through for you the amount of
(10:54):
money that Michael Cohen was making after Trump was elected,
based on his proximity to Donald Trump. The dollar figures,
I think are staggering even for our audience, which likely
doesn't have a lot of trust in the government in
the first place. The amount that Michael Cohen was making,
remember he had no official job. The only thing he
(11:15):
could even argue to these companies. Was I have the
ability to reach Trump the fact that he was making
these millions of dollars. I'm going to tell you what
he was making and what he was doing for it,
and your jaw is gonna all drop, and you're gonna
think to yourself, you're claiming this guy is that he's
somehow a victim. He cashed in off his proximity to
Trump almost more than anybody did. We'll talk about that
(11:37):
here in a moment when we come back. I'm live
in DC. Buck down in Miami. We got a lot
of great guests headed your way, and I want to
tell you, Buck, I'm sorry about this. I don't even
know if you paid attention your blood Nicks had a
game seven.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Do you know I watched? Pay attention? Oh you watched?
I watched it. I'm Carrie.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I told Carry you can shop for antiques on the
couch and get whatever you want as long as I
can watch the Knicks from the couch at this time.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So you went full nineteen nineties NBA FANBA seven book.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yes, absolutely. The Knicks brought me back in for this one.
It was very sad, very sad night, though, and they
lost to the Pacers. Congratulations to everyone in Indiana as well.
By the way, the Minnesota Timberwolves huge upset road Game
seven win as well against the Denver Nuggets, the defending champs.
Maybe you're not a huge fan of the NBA, maybe
you don't care at all. Maybe you love the NHL,
(12:27):
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Speaker 2 (13:44):
From the front lines of Truth, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck Clay live
from the swamp today in Washington, DC. So oh, he'll
be joined by some senators. I'm coming to you from
Miami Beach and and Michael Cohen coming to you from
the courtroom today. Not live on this show, unfortunately, that
(14:06):
would be fun, but telling everybody.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
You know, did I steal from my client? Yes? Yes,
am I a liar forever? Yes? Am I the scummiest
human being you've ever met in your life? Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, he is all of those things. And I have
to say this is one of the moments where you
would think this trial must be essentially falling apart. But
I don't know. It depends on whether the jury actually
cares what the law is. I'm not convinced that this
jury does care about the law or justice in this case. Clay,
(14:39):
the latest update we have on this is Merchand says that, remember,
Michael Cohen is testifying again today. Cross examination is going
to continue, there will be more. I'm sure more gems
from Cohen over the course of the show will bring
them to you. But Judge Murchand says that the trial
is going to wrap up this week. That's as of
this morning, and summations will begin on Tuesday because Memorial Day,
(15:03):
as we know, is Monday, so a week from tomorrow
there will be summations and then the jury will get
their instructions. I have to say, I also think that
we have a lot of indicators already. Clay that Merchand
instead of looking at this and saying, Wow, maybe there's
(15:26):
a part of me that still cares about the law
and wants to do this fairly, I think he's going
to be giving I think he is giving as much
of an advantage to the prosecution as he can or
will be doing so with not only what he allows
in and not in as testimony, but also with jury instructions.
(15:47):
I think we'll all be able to look at the
jury instructions and say, this merchand guy is a total
partisan and a fraud. I think we're sitting now buck
at fifty to fifty on whether there's a conviction. And
let me be clear, if this were a honest jury
in a normal courtroom that is not a ninety percent
(16:11):
allied against Trump courtroom, I think beyond a shadow of
a doubt, there'd be a not guilty verdict here. I
can't think of a less compelling, more dishonest star witness
that is trying to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt
that I've ever seen in a criminal case of this magnitude.
(16:32):
And again I come back to you asked the question,
but I think it's important to remember the federal government
found Cohen to be such an uncompelling and dishonest witness
that even though they want to nail Donald Trump to
as many charges as they can, they elected not to
bring this case. And then Alvin Bragg decided to bring it.
(16:54):
And I think it's fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I know.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I made a bet last week with one of our
callers from Kansas who said, up, there's going to be
a not guilty verdict, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
What the legal result should be.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
And I think even on MSNBC and CNN, you're starting
to hear political commentators and legal analysts say, hey, you
know what, this is not really a case. But again,
they've got a rig jury. So my best hope is
that one or two or three of those jurors will
just say no.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And I think that the more the deeper into this
we get, the more you'll see that there are people
in this process, like Judge Marchan, who are complicit at
this stage, and so they recognize a hung jury or
a not guilty verdict.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I think a not guilty verdict. I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I think that chance of that is like moonshot, very low.
But if this were to be a situation where there's
a hung jury, even it looks terrible for the prosecution
and for the judge who did not throw this case
out ahead of time. Clay, they only bring cases usually
in criminal court as you know that they are sure
they're going to win, no doubt, and this is not
(17:56):
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(18:19):
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(18:39):
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
Come Back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. I know
sometimes it's important to understand what outside of this universe
people are saying. I think Buck and I tend to
get most things right, and as a result, you guys
tend to be well informed. But a lot of times,
(19:14):
for instance, the Supreme Court comes out nine to zero
and says, hey, Colorado, you can't take Trump off the ballot.
MSNBC was stunned. Go back several years the Mueller Report,
Oh there's no collusion, ESPN, MSNBCNCN then probably ESPN two.
Everybody who watches those a stunned that their audiences are
(19:34):
not well informed with what's going on. I will say,
we played you that cut of MSNBC. Here is Wara
Coats on CNN. This is the one of the chief
legal analysts for CNN who just went on after this
Michael Cohen testimony and said, this might have been the
end of the prosecution's case. If they are saying this
(19:57):
on MSNBC and CNN, gals, it ain't good.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
This has given such ammunition as to possibly fatally undermine
the prosecution's case.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Let's a quick cut, buck.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But if they're saying on CNN that they may have
fatally undermined the case, this is a little bit of cope.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Can I was gonna say, can I dial up the
cynicism here for a second? I think that when CNN
has anchors saying, oh my gosh, this could end the case.
I think they all really know what we know, which
is that the most likely outcome here is a guilty
verdict no matter what the evidence says. Michael Cohen could
(20:39):
stand up there in court and I really mean this,
he could stand up and say I lied about everything.
I made everything up. And unless the judge at that point,
you know, I know there's other the judge could it
could be a mistrial based on that, or you know,
there's a bunch. But if after that happened, it still
went to a jury, I still would have a very
serious concern that this jury would convict because or not
(21:00):
convicting Donald Trump for what he did. If they convict,
it is because they decided to get a conviction against
Donald Trump for who he is and for what he represents.
And so that's why to me at CNN this analysis
and looking at like, oh, it's so tough for the
legal case today. You know, like you know about the
(21:21):
Stalinist show trials, right, they have guys they had like Rushkovsky,
Saragame Rushkovski getting up and not only confessing to fantastical crimes,
meaning things that it's not even possible for them to
have done, but to basically beg to be shot. It's
a really terrifying part of twentieth century history, which had
a lot of terrifying stuff. But it would be like
analyzing the Stalinist Show trials, right. You know, if you
(21:43):
were if you were a member of the polyt Burry,
you'd be like, I don't know, we had a tough
one today, but I guess we'll still get a guilty verdict.
That's kind of how I feel about what's going on here.
I think it's all, what's the kabuki theater? That is
a clay You like this?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
That's a kabuki theater is a clayism.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I mean other people use it, but clayses a lot.
I think that's what we're seeing here. I don't think
they really think that there's going to be a not
guilty verict under any circumstances.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Let me hit you with this.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mentioned in the open that Michael Cohen has been
testifying about the amount of money he made in the
early days of the Trump administration before he decided that
he hated Trump. This is on the witness stand earlier today.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Buck. I want to hit you with this.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Cohen made four million dollars from just four corporate clients,
including AT and T. He said Cohen did that he
did consulting work. He was asked how many times he
actually communicated with AT and T for the six hundred
(22:44):
thousand dollars that he made. The answer, twenty times. Twenty
conversations or emails interactions. Here's another one buck. This is
great work if you can get it. No Vartis also
hired him as a consultant. He was paid one point
five million dollars for just six communications. This is staggering
(23:12):
amounts of money. This hunter Biden's actually jealous of this.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I would just tell you I wouldn't I don't know
for six conversations. I think, who would you not speak
to for one point five million dollars for six chats
on the phone, Like I mean, Hannibal Lecter, Maybe I
don't know, somebody really scary? It would be, uh, it
would be a bit a bit tough to turn down
that money for most people. Look, what's going on here
is he's influenced pedaling.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
We all know that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yep, he's effectively operating outside regulations as a lobbyist as
a here, so he's really an unregistered backdoor lobbyist getting
paid by companies to influence pedal and man, it was
good money for him. One point five million dollars for
six communications. I mean, you think that escorts charged big dollars.
(24:03):
Michael Court Michael Cohen is the most expensive escurt ever.
That's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars if I'm doing
my math, which is always dangerous per communication with that company,
and the reason they're paying him, obviously is because he's
telling them, if you need to get to Trump, I
(24:24):
have access to be able to do so. So he
made as much money, probably as anyone in the country
based on his communications and access to Trump. So he
banked all this money, millions and millions of dollars from
just these handful of clients. Then he flipped became the
(24:45):
anti Trump and made I think he testified buck over
four million dollars in royalties from the books he wrote
about how awful Trump was. We're talking about a guy
playing both sides here to the tune of probably over
ten million dollars in the space of just a couple
of years. I think we're gonna have to put this
(25:06):
to a poll on Twitter. Maybe maybe you know you can,
you can retweet it so we can get an even
more reach. I really am curious at this point who
is the scummier lawyer, Michael Cohen or Michael Avanatti.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
It is Cohen by far, I.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Would have said Avanati before that. I think it's got
to be Cohen. Now I think Cohen is scummier than Avinatti,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, remember Avinatti's now saying, hey, if you need me
to testify, I can testify as to how scummy Cohen is.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I think Avannatti, who the Democrats, Let's not forget we're
talking about openly on TV as a possible dark horse
presidential contender at one point against Trump back in like
twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. I think Avanadi didn't he
steal millions of dollars from a client who was in
a wheelchair? If I remember that correctly? Am I Am
I wrong about that? I feel like that happened. It's
(25:55):
not a good I don't remember. He is a level
of scummy that is truly mind blowing. But I do
think that Michael Cohen maybe the scummiest attorney, which no
offense to the lawyers Clay. There are some scummy attorneys
out there. I think he may be the scummiest attorney.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I've ever heard of.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think better call Saul has way better ethics. Well,
I would think that.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I would also add I don't think Michael Cohen would
be an awful attorney. I mean the actual process of
being an attorney. I mean, Alvanati, I think Cohen is
not a very high level legal mind. I don't think
Avanatti is stupid. In other words, Cohen has never struck
me as a guy who's particularly brilliant. And here's where
(26:39):
you could if you want to criticize Trump. This goes
back to I think the number one criticism that you
could make about Trump's entire first term. He hired a
lot of bad dudes and gals that were not loyal
to him, that were not particularly sharp. I hope and
I think that he has learned the significance of the
(26:59):
people that he hires. I think Trump, when he ran
the Trump Organization was such a one man band that
he was able to have a lot of success even
without elite talent surrounding.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Is the company. I mean, it's his name and it's
his persona. Trump is the Trump Organization, and so I
think he leveled up a lot of the people around
him to the point where as a business person it
didn't matter as much. At a level of representation he had.
I think in the White House that changes. I mean,
I think that this is it's an important conversation to
(27:32):
we have because I do believe that Donald Trump is
going to be the next president of the United States.
We're not celebrating it yet because we don't know and
everything can change, and I get that, but I think
it's important to talk about this and to next time.
We should even bring it up with the president when
we talked to him. Well, we just talked him last week, right,
so you know, we'll talk to him again before the
R and C, I'm sure. And the issue of personnel,
(27:55):
I've been critical of Trump personnel to the point where
I had a lot of folks mad at me, and
then Trump said, look, I made some really bad personnel decisions.
And then people stop being mad at me because I
was just trying to help.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Coaching, so the team wins is different than you know,
booing from the stands because they're rooting for the other team, right,
And Trump I think needed help on personnel decisions. I
will say, though, to the degree that I mean, in
his defense on the personnel decisions, a little bit. Loyalty
when you're working for somebody in a corporate setting at
the Trump organization, when there's lots of money going around
(28:27):
and everything is good and real estate's booming, et cetera,
is a very different kind of loyalty than the Washington
Post is rummaging through your trash and trying to destroy
your life and people are giving death threats to you know,
your wife or your daughter's yeah or whatever. Very true,
and that's what you sign on for to be a
part of a Trump administration as opposed to the Trump organization, right,
(28:48):
So I do think that that's there was a learning
curve there that would be expected. I also think it's
important coin stole this thirty thousand dollars ish that he
just testified to under oath. It's a estimate to how
successful the Trump organization was that the money could be
stolen and they didn't necessarily notice because some people out
there say, oh, my goodness, how could thirty thousand dollars be?
(29:10):
So there are successful companies out there that somebody embezzles
seven figures over a million dollars and they don't know
because there's so much money coming and going. There's so
much dollars coming in and out, and a successful business.
The amount of money that you would track, you know,
for normal people, thirty thousand dollars a lot of money
(29:31):
for a successful business. It's a rounding error very often
with all these dollars moving. And so it doesn't stun
me that something like this could happen. But I think
it also speaks to how bad of a witness Cohen
is that he could get caught red handed like this
and have to admit under cross x. Not only do
I hate the guy that I'm testifying against and want
(29:52):
him to go to prison now for the rest of
his life, but oh, by the way, I'm the only
person that has been proven to red handed have committed
a crime. And some of you going to ask can
he be prosecuted on this? Evidently the statute of limitations
has run on that theft, so he can now admit
to the crime under oath in the courtroom and theoretically
(30:13):
not be charged with it. Much like we talked about
this last week, Buck the Diddy video that came out
of him beating his girlfriend. Oh, it's convenient it comes
out after the statute of limitations has run and there's
no way to actually prosecute him for it in both
of those coincidences. Oh, by the way, it's awfully nice
(30:33):
that you come clean now, but there is no ability
to prosecute you for what would be a high level
of theft that would theoretically be facing years in prison for. Yeah,
I'll always be skeptical when people say they take full
accountability for anything when they've waited until there will be
no accountability for anything.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You know what I mean. Eh, that's that's that's an
easy one, right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I will take whatever comes my way now that the
statute of limitations has run out and nothing can happen
to me. Eight hundred two eight two two eighth two
one those lines. Look, when we became homeowners here in Florida,
clogged rain gutters were not in my top ten fix
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Speaker 3 (32:13):
Keeping it real, keeping it honest. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. I'll take some
of your calls here and also just want to tell
you where we're going in the next hour and also
you gonna get there. I'll start with how you're gonna
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Uh, we got decaf too, right? I never drink decafs.
I don't know these things.
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Oh next Hour, Morehouse, Morehouse College. Joh Joe Biden gave
a speech there, and we want to talk to you
about Biden's speech. It's a reminder and this is kind
of my high level if you're asking for the one liner,
you know, the one liner about the speech. Biden's a
(33:36):
bad guy who will say anything for power. That's that's
really to me.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
What the what?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
The Morehouse College speech was a reminder of he's a
bad guy who will say anything for political power. We're
going there in just a few minutes.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Don in New Jersey has some thoughts on Trump, New York, Cohen,
all the US.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
What's up, Don, gentlemen?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
How you doing? Love the shore?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Good?
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Really quick? As I was ting you call taker. Regardless
of the overwhelming evidence and regardless of the Clinton News
network going to calm it seems this morning I have
been telling my wife for two weeks he's definitely gonna
be found guilty. The reason being is, you know, these
jurors are probably it Trump. They have friends and family
(34:21):
members who I'm positive know that they're sitting in that
jury as a juror, and if they do not want
to be known as the jury who founds him not guilty.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Don, I don't know if you heard this on the
show I just want to say you're a very smart
and a stute fellow, because I have also said they're
going to convict him. I was a little bit iffier
on it actually before, but I think they're going to
convict him. And I think your point is a critical one,
which is that no matter what the jur whenever, sorry,
no matter what the judge's instructions are, the jury names
(34:52):
will get out, and if there's one holdout for a
hung jury, that person is going to have their life room, Clay,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
This is why I think it can be important to
have multiple jurors who believe that he's not guilty, because
there is some strength in numbers. And I do think
if there's two or three people who initially when they
do a poll, hey do you think he's guilty or not?
If they say no, I think that becomes more difficult.
There is a scenario buck, which is gleeful to me,
(35:22):
where they refuse to convict Trump. Right as soon as
they refuse to convict Trump, the Hunter Biden trial starts
the next Monday, and so we can go from Trump's
not going to be convicted of anything to Hunter Biden
has back to back federal criminal trials, both in Delaware
and California, where he could be convicted of both of
(35:44):
those before Joe Biden, even in theory, before Joe Biden
and Donald Trump are able to debate on June twenty seven.
And that's one area I hope we talked about the
debate Buck. That's one area where I really hope Trump
goes in on Biden the lie that he told about
his son in the debates in twenty twenty. If Hunter
(36:04):
is doubly convicted, then suddenly Biden has to answer in
some way for his son, who is a convicted felon
that he claimed was the smartest man he knew and
had never done anything wrong. I still think Biden is
very vulnerable there to independent voters based on the lies
that he's told associated with Hunter.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
We're going to come back in here shortly to have
a conversation about Biden's speech at Morehouse College and how
he is clearly trying to get as or trying to
off the support that he has from the black community
based on his comments.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
We shall discuss that.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Plus, we've got some senators going to be joining Clay
in the swamp in a little bit
Welcome in Monday edition Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate
all of you hanging out with us as we fight
the battle truth and justice across the fruited planes. I
am Clay Travis. He is buck Sexton. I am up
in Washington, d C. For the next couple of days.
We've got several senators who will be swinging by in
(00:21):
person to talk with all of you, including our good
friend Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who will join us
at one point thirty here in the DC studio, Bill
Haggerty of Tennessee in the third hour of the program,
both in person. We'll haverow tomorrow some more good guests
in person. Buck is down in Miami. A couple of
(00:43):
things that are worth hitting as we begin the show.
Iron's president dies in a helicopter crash. Pretty crazy the
way that that story played out. We'll see if there
ends up being any sort of nefarious allegations about how
that happened, but so far it appears that the helicopter
went down in awful weather conditions.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So we'll you also the foreign minister. So yeah, I mean,
this is like the president and the Secretary of State
equivalent in Iran dead in a helicopters.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So do you think you've flown a lot in helicopters,
And certainly for anybody out there who has flown in helicopters,
you always hear that they're way more dangerous than an
airplane would be. Do you when you hear this, buck,
does your antennae as a former CIA person go up
and you think there's something more to this than just
a helicopter accident? Or is your inclination that this would
(01:37):
be such a major thing to attempt to do as
you just mentioned President and Secretary of State effectively both
going down in the same helicopter, that this would be
hard even too aggressive for someone who is an anti
Iranian actor to even attempt.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, I think that this is a function of the
Iranian government is incompet There have been sanctions for a
long time that make it harder for them to get
good aviation equipment of all kinds.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just keep that in mind. I mean, they let me.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Look at their military. The stuff that they're generally operating
with is crappy. I mean, if you told me that
I had to get up, you know, it's one thing
to get up in a US military blackhawk, you've got
high level training, the best technology you're going to get
up in an Iranian government helicopter. I mean, good luck
and this is just I think, horrible luck for the
Iranian regime, good luck for the rest of the world.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So there's that, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I mean, people could talk about poetic justice and all
the rest of it, but I don't see this as
there's no basis to believe that it is sabotage. There's
plenty of basis to believe that the Iranians can't fly
a helicopter, even for their own president. You know, for
people out there who are wondering the Ayatola is still
(02:52):
the supreme leader.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
He's eighty five years old.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
But this was a guy that many people had thought
was potentially going to be his successor. Sixty three years
old the Iranian president who died, and a lot of
Iranians celebrated his death because he's considered the butcher of Iran,
because he has been so aggressive in stifling any kind
of descent that has occurred in that country that they
said he's responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands
(03:17):
of Iranian people. So there were some videos that were
starting to circulate as this news became more prominent of
Iranian people celebrating this guy's death, So that occurred out there.
I'll mention you discussed the dangers of helicopters. I think
I've mentioned this on the show if I haven't before.
My uncle who served during Vietnam Buck his job was,
(03:41):
he was in Vietnam and he was in charge of
all helicopter repairs in his particular base where there were
regularly raids going out, and they as the helicopter repairman
at that point in time, and I would imagine they
probably still have similar rules. When you repaired the helicopter,
(04:02):
your crew was the first one to go up in
the helicopter to test it. So I always it was
a little bit like in the.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Skydiving community, you always pack your own shoot, you know
what I mean. Yeah, you are the only one in
charge of your shoot because you are the one that
cares the most, and if you're going to be the
ones doing the repairs, you're gonna care a lot about
it if you go up in it first. Afterwards, no doubt,
if you were willing to cut corners in any way,
which you shouldn't be doing when you have to be
the first group that's going up in that helicopter. He said,
(04:32):
they were incredibly diligent, as you can well imagine during
the time that he was serving. Thanks by the way
to my uncle Kenneth, who is over eighty now doing well,
but served the country during Vietnam as a helicopter repairman
in Vietnam, okay, helicopter gunman by the way, which you know,
or like a helicopter crew chief. I think was one
(04:55):
of the highest percentage casualty jobs the US had in
Vietnam in that whole war. It was very, very high
casualty rate for the guy, you know, basically the door guns. Yeah,
it's terrifying to think about. Honestly, when you contemplate you're
flying over the jungles like they were all the time,
you can't see very much oftentimes not great optics, and
you're making a lot of noise and everybody knows that
(05:17):
you are coming. So he's told a lot of stories
about that over the years. A couple of other stories
that are out there that we're going to dive into.
I mentioned the Harvard Harris poll. Trump up six.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I believe it's the biggest lead he's ever had in
his political career in that Harvard Harris poll. We will discuss,
but buck. Right now, Michael Cohen's cross examination continues, and
Todd Blanche, the Trump defense attorney, is absolutely eviscerating him
on the stand.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I'm not sure again, we talked a lot about this
whether there are enough honest jurors to actually apply the
law here. But if there are, we at least have
one situation where we have finally proved and that a
crime did take place. Michael Cohen admits on the witness
stand in the last hour or so that he stole
(06:08):
thirty thousand dollars from the Trump organization. He is a thief.
We already know that he is a felon. Here is
cut nineteen, MSNBC having to tell their audience, oh, the
government star witness. Yeah, he just admitted that he stole
thirty thousand dollars from the Trump organization.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Listen, let me read for you the exchange between Todd
Blanche and Michael Cohen. So you only gave him twenty
thousand dollars and you took thirty thousand dollars, Blanch, you
stole from the Trump organization. Right, Cohen says, yes, sir,
Blanche goes on later on, he says, you did steal
from the Trump organization based upon the expected reimbursement, correct,
(06:47):
And he says, yes, sir, so again that is breaking
it out because essentially they walked through what it is
that Michael Cohen actually paid Rentfedge. And this goes back
to hose what you were just talking about in this
brown paper bag all cash. He came to the Trump
organization an individual who work for Redfinch to collect this
payment twenty thousand dollars in which Michael Cohen paid.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Out to this individual.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
The other thirty thousand dollars Michael Cohen kept to himself. Subsequently,
why Tom Blanch is now saying, okay, so you stole
from the Trump organization, correct? And Michael Cohen says yes, correct.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Buck Okay, I mean for the star witness to admit
on the witness stand that he is, in addition to
all the other lies that he has told, that he
directly stole from the Trump organization, I don't see how
any juror can consider him to be remotely trustworthy on
any level.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
This whole case is collapsing. Well, here's the thing, Clay,
Yes it should. It should collapse. It also should have
been thrown out by the judge. It also should never
have been brought. It also is insane, right, I mean,
when you're looking at what's going on.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
In New York City, it is really it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I think in essence becomes an extra judicial process because
it's all about politics and not about what's actually happening
with the law.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It has been up to this point.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The prosecutors and judges and Judge Murchand have shown us
that and a normal circumstance, in normal order, a normal trial.
If your star witness and no one disagrees that he
is the you could not make this case without Michael Cohen.
I mean, if this was a murder, he's the eyewitness
(08:24):
to the shooting, right, But as we know, it's the
opposite of a murder. It's a bank records like dispute.
The whole thing, I mean, our business records dispute. The
whole thing is absolutely absurd. But without Michael Cohen, there
is no case. And if you had any other legal
proceeding in Clay, correct me if I'm wrong or you
disagree with this, if your star witness, without whom there
(08:45):
wouldn't even be an indictment, was shown to be a
liar under oath in this trial, a proven and admitted
serial liar in other circumstances, a convicted felon, a disbarred lawyer,
and he just admitted to being a lawyer who steals
money from.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
His client, a client that at the time he thought
of like.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
A father figure. I think the case is gone, right,
I think it's all over. But I don't think this
case has gone and all over. I think it's weaker,
but I'm still I still think it's way too early
to celebrate and count out the possibility of a guilty
verdict on sheer politics.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
This is why the federal government chose not to bring
these charges. They investigated this for years, and ultimately they
couldn't get pass that Michael Cohen was the lynchpin, the
star witness, the individual who was going to be able
to prove or not prove that a crime had occurred.
(09:48):
And they just said, we don't believe that a jury
is going to find him compelling or trustworthy enough to
bring these charges. And that's not working. Under the assumption
that the federal government was wanting to give Trump the
benefit of the doubt. Right in New York the federal
government wanted to get Trump as much as Jack Smith does.
(10:09):
I walked past in DC this morning, buck right past
the Department of Justice sitting across the street from the FBI.
That was my walk from the hotel this morning, and
I just paused there and set for a minute and
looked at that incongruity that could be taking place right
now within the shadow effectively of both the White House
and the Capital Dome. And the fact that the federal
(10:33):
government in New York City said, no, we can't do this,
we don't have a strong enough case, is exactly what
we're seeing take place with Michael Cohen right now. And
Michael Cohen has tried to buck portray himself as a victim.
When we come back in a couple of minutes. Here,
I want to run through for you the amount of
(10:54):
money that Michael Cohen was making after Trump was elected,
based on his proximity to Donald Trump. The dollar figures,
I think are staggering even for our audience, which likely
doesn't have a lot of trust in the government in
the first place. The amount that Michael Cohen was making,
remember he had no official job. The only thing he
(11:15):
could even argue to these companies. Was I have the
ability to reach Trump the fact that he was making
these millions of dollars. I'm going to tell you what
he was making and what he was doing for it,
and your jaw is gonna all drop, and you're gonna
think to yourself, you're claiming this guy is that he's
somehow a victim. He cashed in off his proximity to
Trump almost more than anybody did. We'll talk about that
(11:37):
here in a moment when we come back. I'm live
in DC. Buck down in Miami. We got a lot
of great guests headed your way, and I want to
tell you, Buck, I'm sorry about this. I don't even
know if you paid attention your blood Nicks had a
game seven.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Do you know I watched? Pay attention? Oh you watched?
I watched it. I'm Carrie.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I told Carry you can shop for antiques on the
couch and get whatever you want as long as I
can watch the Knicks from the couch at this time.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So you went full nineteen nineties NBA FANBA seven book.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yes, absolutely. The Knicks brought me back in for this one.
It was very sad, very sad night, though, and they
lost to the Pacers. Congratulations to everyone in Indiana as well.
By the way, the Minnesota Timberwolves huge upset road Game
seven win as well against the Denver Nuggets, the defending champs.
Maybe you're not a huge fan of the NBA, maybe
you don't care at all. Maybe you love the NHL,
(12:27):
which is having its own drama right now. Maybe you're
like me, big baseball fan. Atlanta Braves playing against the
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Speaker 2 (13:44):
From the front lines of Truth, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck Clay live
from the swamp today in Washington, DC. So oh, he'll
be joined by some senators. I'm coming to you from
Miami Beach and and Michael Cohen coming to you from
the courtroom today. Not live on this show, unfortunately, that
(14:06):
would be fun, but telling everybody.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
You know, did I steal from my client? Yes? Yes,
am I a liar forever? Yes? Am I the scummiest
human being you've ever met in your life? Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, he is all of those things. And I have
to say this is one of the moments where you
would think this trial must be essentially falling apart. But
I don't know. It depends on whether the jury actually
cares what the law is. I'm not convinced that this
jury does care about the law or justice in this case. Clay,
(14:39):
the latest update we have on this is Merchand says that, remember,
Michael Cohen is testifying again today. Cross examination is going
to continue, there will be more. I'm sure more gems
from Cohen over the course of the show will bring
them to you. But Judge Murchand says that the trial
is going to wrap up this week. That's as of
this morning, and summations will begin on Tuesday because Memorial Day,
(15:03):
as we know, is Monday, so a week from tomorrow
there will be summations and then the jury will get
their instructions. I have to say, I also think that
we have a lot of indicators already. Clay that Merchand
instead of looking at this and saying, Wow, maybe there's
(15:26):
a part of me that still cares about the law
and wants to do this fairly, I think he's going
to be giving I think he is giving as much
of an advantage to the prosecution as he can or
will be doing so with not only what he allows
in and not in as testimony, but also with jury instructions.
(15:47):
I think we'll all be able to look at the
jury instructions and say, this merchand guy is a total
partisan and a fraud. I think we're sitting now buck
at fifty to fifty on whether there's a conviction. And
let me be clear, if this were a honest jury
in a normal courtroom that is not a ninety percent
(16:11):
allied against Trump courtroom, I think beyond a shadow of
a doubt, there'd be a not guilty verdict here. I
can't think of a less compelling, more dishonest star witness
that is trying to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt
that I've ever seen in a criminal case of this magnitude.
(16:32):
And again I come back to you asked the question,
but I think it's important to remember the federal government
found Cohen to be such an uncompelling and dishonest witness
that even though they want to nail Donald Trump to
as many charges as they can, they elected not to
bring this case. And then Alvin Bragg decided to bring it.
(16:54):
And I think it's fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I know.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I made a bet last week with one of our
callers from Kansas who said, up, there's going to be
a not guilty verdict, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
What the legal result should be.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
And I think even on MSNBC and CNN, you're starting
to hear political commentators and legal analysts say, hey, you
know what, this is not really a case. But again,
they've got a rig jury. So my best hope is
that one or two or three of those jurors will
just say no.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And I think that the more the deeper into this
we get, the more you'll see that there are people
in this process, like Judge Marchan, who are complicit at
this stage, and so they recognize a hung jury or
a not guilty verdict.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I think a not guilty verdict. I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I think that chance of that is like moonshot, very low.
But if this were to be a situation where there's
a hung jury, even it looks terrible for the prosecution
and for the judge who did not throw this case
out ahead of time. Clay, they only bring cases usually
in criminal court as you know that they are sure
they're going to win, no doubt, and this is not
(17:56):
one of those unless they think the jury's rigged, which
is where it is. I want to tell you about
a documentary you have to go check out. It's called
America's Last Election. I watched it start to finish a
couple of weeks ago. It is well worthy your time.
It was created by a friend of mine, Porter Stansbury,
who's a renowned economist and somebody who has shaped my
view of our country's economy and global financial markets. This
(18:19):
is a guy who really knows what he's talking about.
He has predicted almost every major economic and financial move
in both directions for twenty five plus years. And this
documentary details how a new financial crisis could be brewing
in America and the dangers it poses to millions of Americans.
How you work, where you live, how you plan for retirement,
(18:39):
all that could change because of this upcoming election. Go
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
Come Back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. I know
sometimes it's important to understand what outside of this universe
people are saying. I think Buck and I tend to
get most things right, and as a result, you guys
tend to be well informed. But a lot of times,
(19:14):
for instance, the Supreme Court comes out nine to zero
and says, hey, Colorado, you can't take Trump off the ballot.
MSNBC was stunned. Go back several years the Mueller Report,
Oh there's no collusion, ESPN, MSNBCNCN then probably ESPN two.
Everybody who watches those a stunned that their audiences are
(19:34):
not well informed with what's going on. I will say,
we played you that cut of MSNBC. Here is Wara
Coats on CNN. This is the one of the chief
legal analysts for CNN who just went on after this
Michael Cohen testimony and said, this might have been the
end of the prosecution's case. If they are saying this
(19:57):
on MSNBC and CNN, gals, it ain't good.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
This has given such ammunition as to possibly fatally undermine
the prosecution's case.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Let's a quick cut, buck.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But if they're saying on CNN that they may have
fatally undermined the case, this is a little bit of cope.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Can I was gonna say, can I dial up the
cynicism here for a second? I think that when CNN
has anchors saying, oh my gosh, this could end the case.
I think they all really know what we know, which
is that the most likely outcome here is a guilty
verdict no matter what the evidence says. Michael Cohen could
(20:39):
stand up there in court and I really mean this,
he could stand up and say I lied about everything.
I made everything up. And unless the judge at that point,
you know, I know there's other the judge could it
could be a mistrial based on that, or you know,
there's a bunch. But if after that happened, it still
went to a jury, I still would have a very
serious concern that this jury would convict because or not
(21:00):
convicting Donald Trump for what he did. If they convict,
it is because they decided to get a conviction against
Donald Trump for who he is and for what he represents.
And so that's why to me at CNN this analysis
and looking at like, oh, it's so tough for the
legal case today. You know, like you know about the
(21:21):
Stalinist show trials, right, they have guys they had like Rushkovsky,
Saragame Rushkovski getting up and not only confessing to fantastical crimes,
meaning things that it's not even possible for them to
have done, but to basically beg to be shot. It's
a really terrifying part of twentieth century history, which had
a lot of terrifying stuff. But it would be like
analyzing the Stalinist Show trials, right. You know, if you
(21:43):
were if you were a member of the polyt Burry,
you'd be like, I don't know, we had a tough
one today, but I guess we'll still get a guilty verdict.
That's kind of how I feel about what's going on here.
I think it's all, what's the kabuki theater? That is
a clay You like this?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
That's a kabuki theater is a clayism.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I mean other people use it, but clayses a lot.
I think that's what we're seeing here. I don't think
they really think that there's going to be a not
guilty verict under any circumstances.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Let me hit you with this.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mentioned in the open that Michael Cohen has been
testifying about the amount of money he made in the
early days of the Trump administration before he decided that
he hated Trump. This is on the witness stand earlier today.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Buck. I want to hit you with this.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Cohen made four million dollars from just four corporate clients,
including AT and T. He said Cohen did that he
did consulting work. He was asked how many times he
actually communicated with AT and T for the six hundred
(22:44):
thousand dollars that he made. The answer, twenty times. Twenty
conversations or emails interactions. Here's another one buck. This is
great work if you can get it. No Vartis also
hired him as a consultant. He was paid one point
five million dollars for just six communications. This is staggering
(23:12):
amounts of money. This hunter Biden's actually jealous of this.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I would just tell you I wouldn't I don't know
for six conversations. I think, who would you not speak
to for one point five million dollars for six chats
on the phone, Like I mean, Hannibal Lecter, Maybe I
don't know, somebody really scary? It would be, uh, it
would be a bit a bit tough to turn down
that money for most people. Look, what's going on here
is he's influenced pedaling.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
We all know that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yep, he's effectively operating outside regulations as a lobbyist as
a here, so he's really an unregistered backdoor lobbyist getting
paid by companies to influence pedal and man, it was
good money for him. One point five million dollars for
six communications. I mean, you think that escorts charged big dollars.
(24:03):
Michael Court Michael Cohen is the most expensive escurt ever.
That's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars if I'm doing
my math, which is always dangerous per communication with that company,
and the reason they're paying him, obviously is because he's
telling them, if you need to get to Trump, I
(24:24):
have access to be able to do so. So he
made as much money, probably as anyone in the country
based on his communications and access to Trump. So he
banked all this money, millions and millions of dollars from
just these handful of clients. Then he flipped became the
(24:45):
anti Trump and made I think he testified buck over
four million dollars in royalties from the books he wrote
about how awful Trump was. We're talking about a guy
playing both sides here to the tune of probably over
ten million dollars in the space of just a couple
of years. I think we're gonna have to put this
(25:06):
to a poll on Twitter. Maybe maybe you know you can,
you can retweet it so we can get an even
more reach. I really am curious at this point who
is the scummier lawyer, Michael Cohen or Michael Avanatti.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
It is Cohen by far, I.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Would have said Avanati before that. I think it's got
to be Cohen. Now I think Cohen is scummier than Avinatti,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, remember Avinatti's now saying, hey, if you need me
to testify, I can testify as to how scummy Cohen is.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I think Avannatti, who the Democrats, Let's not forget we're
talking about openly on TV as a possible dark horse
presidential contender at one point against Trump back in like
twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. I think Avanadi didn't he
steal millions of dollars from a client who was in
a wheelchair? If I remember that correctly? Am I Am
I wrong about that? I feel like that happened. It's
(25:55):
not a good I don't remember. He is a level
of scummy that is truly mind blowing. But I do
think that Michael Cohen maybe the scummiest attorney, which no
offense to the lawyers Clay. There are some scummy attorneys
out there. I think he may be the scummiest attorney.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I've ever heard of.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think better call Saul has way better ethics. Well,
I would think that.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I would also add I don't think Michael Cohen would
be an awful attorney. I mean the actual process of
being an attorney. I mean, Alvanati, I think Cohen is
not a very high level legal mind. I don't think
Avanatti is stupid. In other words, Cohen has never struck
me as a guy who's particularly brilliant. And here's where
(26:39):
you could if you want to criticize Trump. This goes
back to I think the number one criticism that you
could make about Trump's entire first term. He hired a
lot of bad dudes and gals that were not loyal
to him, that were not particularly sharp. I hope and
I think that he has learned the significance of the
(26:59):
people that he hires. I think Trump, when he ran
the Trump Organization was such a one man band that
he was able to have a lot of success even
without elite talent surrounding.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Is the company. I mean, it's his name and it's
his persona. Trump is the Trump Organization, and so I
think he leveled up a lot of the people around
him to the point where as a business person it
didn't matter as much. At a level of representation he had.
I think in the White House that changes. I mean,
I think that this is it's an important conversation to
(27:32):
we have because I do believe that Donald Trump is
going to be the next president of the United States.
We're not celebrating it yet because we don't know and
everything can change, and I get that, but I think
it's important to talk about this and to next time.
We should even bring it up with the president when
we talked to him. Well, we just talked him last week, right,
so you know, we'll talk to him again before the
R and C, I'm sure. And the issue of personnel,
(27:55):
I've been critical of Trump personnel to the point where
I had a lot of folks mad at me, and
then Trump said, look, I made some really bad personnel decisions.
And then people stop being mad at me because I
was just trying to help.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Coaching, so the team wins is different than you know,
booing from the stands because they're rooting for the other team, right,
And Trump I think needed help on personnel decisions. I
will say, though, to the degree that I mean, in
his defense on the personnel decisions, a little bit. Loyalty
when you're working for somebody in a corporate setting at
the Trump organization, when there's lots of money going around
(28:27):
and everything is good and real estate's booming, et cetera,
is a very different kind of loyalty than the Washington
Post is rummaging through your trash and trying to destroy
your life and people are giving death threats to you know,
your wife or your daughter's yeah or whatever. Very true,
and that's what you sign on for to be a
part of a Trump administration as opposed to the Trump organization, right,
(28:48):
So I do think that that's there was a learning
curve there that would be expected. I also think it's
important coin stole this thirty thousand dollars ish that he
just testified to under oath. It's a estimate to how
successful the Trump organization was that the money could be
stolen and they didn't necessarily notice because some people out
there say, oh, my goodness, how could thirty thousand dollars be?
(29:10):
So there are successful companies out there that somebody embezzles
seven figures over a million dollars and they don't know
because there's so much money coming and going. There's so
much dollars coming in and out, and a successful business.
The amount of money that you would track, you know,
for normal people, thirty thousand dollars a lot of money
(29:31):
for a successful business. It's a rounding error very often
with all these dollars moving. And so it doesn't stun
me that something like this could happen. But I think
it also speaks to how bad of a witness Cohen
is that he could get caught red handed like this
and have to admit under cross x. Not only do
I hate the guy that I'm testifying against and want
(29:52):
him to go to prison now for the rest of
his life, but oh, by the way, I'm the only
person that has been proven to red handed have committed
a crime. And some of you going to ask can
he be prosecuted on this? Evidently the statute of limitations
has run on that theft, so he can now admit
to the crime under oath in the courtroom and theoretically
(30:13):
not be charged with it. Much like we talked about
this last week, Buck the Diddy video that came out
of him beating his girlfriend. Oh, it's convenient it comes
out after the statute of limitations has run and there's
no way to actually prosecute him for it in both
of those coincidences. Oh, by the way, it's awfully nice
(30:33):
that you come clean now, but there is no ability
to prosecute you for what would be a high level
of theft that would theoretically be facing years in prison for. Yeah,
I'll always be skeptical when people say they take full
accountability for anything when they've waited until there will be
no accountability for anything.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You know what I mean. Eh, that's that's that's an
easy one, right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I will take whatever comes my way now that the
statute of limitations has run out and nothing can happen
to me. Eight hundred two eight two two eighth two
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(31:16):
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Speaker 3 (32:13):
Keeping it real, keeping it honest. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. I'll take some
of your calls here and also just want to tell
you where we're going in the next hour and also
you gonna get there. I'll start with how you're gonna
get there drinking Crockett Coffee everybody. Oh yeah, Crockett, you
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Speaker 3 (32:48):
Uh, we got decaf too, right? I never drink decafs.
I don't know these things.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Crockettcoffee dot Com. Probably drink too much. Nondcaf is my problem.
Crocket Coffee dot Com, please subscribe. We're also gonna start
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(33:13):
but subscribing Get Get your Coffee monthly from us saves
you money free shipping. It's a great way to go.
Oh next Hour, Morehouse, Morehouse College. Joh Joe Biden gave
a speech there, and we want to talk to you
about Biden's speech. It's a reminder and this is kind
of my high level if you're asking for the one liner,
you know, the one liner about the speech. Biden's a
(33:36):
bad guy who will say anything for power. That's that's
really to me.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
What the what?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
The Morehouse College speech was a reminder of he's a
bad guy who will say anything for political power. We're
going there in just a few minutes.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Don in New Jersey has some thoughts on Trump, New York, Cohen,
all the US.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
What's up, Don, gentlemen?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
How you doing? Love the shore?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Good?
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Really quick? As I was ting you call taker. Regardless
of the overwhelming evidence and regardless of the Clinton News
network going to calm it seems this morning I have
been telling my wife for two weeks he's definitely gonna
be found guilty. The reason being is, you know, these
jurors are probably it Trump. They have friends and family
(34:21):
members who I'm positive know that they're sitting in that
jury as a juror, and if they do not want
to be known as the jury who founds him not guilty.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Don, I don't know if you heard this on the
show I just want to say you're a very smart
and a stute fellow, because I have also said they're
going to convict him. I was a little bit iffier
on it actually before, but I think they're going to
convict him. And I think your point is a critical one,
which is that no matter what the jur whenever, sorry,
no matter what the judge's instructions are, the jury names
(34:52):
will get out, and if there's one holdout for a
hung jury, that person is going to have their life room, Clay,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
This is why I think it can be important to
have multiple jurors who believe that he's not guilty, because
there is some strength in numbers. And I do think
if there's two or three people who initially when they
do a poll, hey do you think he's guilty or not?
If they say no, I think that becomes more difficult.
There is a scenario buck, which is gleeful to me,
(35:22):
where they refuse to convict Trump. Right as soon as
they refuse to convict Trump, the Hunter Biden trial starts
the next Monday, and so we can go from Trump's
not going to be convicted of anything to Hunter Biden
has back to back federal criminal trials, both in Delaware
and California, where he could be convicted of both of
(35:44):
those before Joe Biden, even in theory, before Joe Biden
and Donald Trump are able to debate on June twenty seven.
And that's one area I hope we talked about the
debate Buck. That's one area where I really hope Trump
goes in on Biden the lie that he told about
his son in the debates in twenty twenty. If Hunter
(36:04):
is doubly convicted, then suddenly Biden has to answer in
some way for his son, who is a convicted felon
that he claimed was the smartest man he knew and
had never done anything wrong. I still think Biden is
very vulnerable there to independent voters based on the lies
that he's told associated with Hunter.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
We're going to come back in here shortly to have
a conversation about Biden's speech at Morehouse College and how
he is clearly trying to get as or trying to
off the support that he has from the black community
based on his comments.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
We shall discuss that.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Plus, we've got some senators going to be joining Clay
in the swamp in a little bit
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