November 25, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, Lisa and Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and author of "Dawn's Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America," discuss the election. They explore the implications for the Republican Party and Donald Trump's agenda, emphasizing the need for authenticity in political messaging and local engagement. They highlight how Trump bypassed traditional media to connect directly with the public, leading to a cultural shift. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This was a wee the people election, It get off
our lawn election. We took our power back as the
American people after experiencing the heavy hand of government since COVID,
even before that, remember when Obama targeted the Tea Party
with the IRS. Americans are sick and tired of this.
We want our power back, we want our country back,
(00:22):
we want patriotism back, we want common sense back. We
want an economy that doesn't punish hard working taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So that's what this election was about.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But now that we have the majority, now that we
have the White House, now that we have the House,
now that we have the Senate, what do we do
with it? What does the path forward look like? We'll
talk to someone who wrote the book about it. The
book is called Don's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to
Save America. So now that we've taken back Washington, how
do we save America. Kevin Roberts is the author. He
(00:54):
is the president of the Heritage Foundation. He also has
a PhD in American history.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So this is his.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Passion and this is what he has spent his life's work,
his career on talking about American history. So we'll get
into this conversation with him, you know, what did the next.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Four years look like?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
How do we build a long lasting Republican majority, How
do we rebuild these institutions that have been failing us
for so long? So all of that more with my
friend Kevin Roberts. Stay tuned, Kevin Roberts. It's great to
have you on this show. So the last time we
were on it was a little depressing. We were in
(01:33):
the midst of feeling like, you know, maybe this is
the end of the Republic and you know, wondering or
for institutions would be able to hold. And thank god,
things have changed in the past couple of weeks and
because of Donald Trump's victory and Republicans retaking Congress, and
it really does feel like a new day in America.
I don't know about you, Kevin, but I feel like
(01:54):
this weight's just been lifted off her shoulders, you know,
feeling a pride in the country again and just feeling
of renewed hope. Is that how you've been feeling or
you know, what's the past couple of weeks been like
for you?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah? I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You know, as you do, Lisa, I travel the country
for work and happily, because it's always nice to get
out of the neighborhood of Washington elites, where heritage operates
behind enemy lines, and be with ordinary Americans.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And you know, whether on the Gulf Coast or Florida.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Or the West Coast, or even in New York City recently,
people use that same metaphor, which is that they feel
like a weight's been lifted from their shoulders are in
some cases, if you think about small and medium sized
business owners off of their chest, that they can actually
breathe again. And I think it speaks to this point
that you open with, which is that the last time
(02:44):
we visited, we were concerned about the deterioration of our institutions,
which is a way of saying, sort of on a
day to day basis that Americans are feeling like the
American dream is slipping away. And once again, a majority
of Americans since that and decided.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
That they want to do elect demand who's.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Proven that he's able to confront that. The real test
is going to be the real hard work is going
to be what comes up in the next months, which
is actually implementing those policies that rehabilitate the American Dream.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, the irony is, you know, they called him Hitler,
and yet he's uniting the nations.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
It's amazing, isn't it. But they still won't.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Give him his victory, Like, you know, I'm reading all
these headlines like, oh, the Trump's mandate is a myth,
Like Donald Trump's mandate isn't as strong as it s
Like they just they won't ever even in victory, Like
they just can't give him the credit that he's so rightfully.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Fought for and earned.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
They cannot bring themselves to do it.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I will say that I've taken a bit of a
sadistic pleasure in watching radical leftists contort themselves over Trump
winning the popular vote. And then this related point you make,
which is just giving him credit for not only meeting
the political moment, but also doing so in a way
that's very substantive in terms of the policy diagnosis that
(04:05):
he articulated and as well as the solutions. And you
and I were just touching base informally throughout the campaign,
and there was a particular point, not to speak for you,
although I remember you and I being on the same
page where I thought the Trump Vance campaign hadn't yet
found its footing as it relates to the policy diagnosis
(04:25):
and solutions, and that's very normal and natural, by the way.
But once they did so coming out of the DNC
convention in response to what was a mildly successful convention
for the vice president, and they found that footing, then
you saw those polls closed and they really flipped when
jd Vance debated Tim Waltz. And the reason jd Vance
(04:45):
I think did so well is because of this emphasis
on policy substance, on articulating where we need to go
from here. And I am fully convinced that, in fact,
they will do so. And that's why it's so difficult
for all these talking heads on the left to even
bring themselves to admit that these two guys actually have
already been successful.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, I think one thing.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That Trump taught us to which I feel like Republicans
have been reluctant to do so in the past, is
like to go into the blue territories to fight for
these votes, to let these voters know that, like, no, we.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Want you on our team.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
You know, like you really expanded the tent in a
way that you know, I don't know if Republicans have
been able to do so in the past or at
least not for a very long time. I mean, you
look at even some of these blue states like New
York swinging and his direction by I think something like
eleven point five percent, New Jersey by ten percent, California
by eight percent, winning you know, some of these majority
Hispanic counties winning Dearborn, Michigan, the biggest majority Arab city
(05:40):
in the country, you know, winning Native Americans, you know,
Asian swinging in his direction, Black swinging his direct you know.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like just he really went in and he fought in.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
These areas, and so I think you're like moving forward,
you know. I mean, look, Trump's such a unique entity, right,
Like he's a probably a what you know, we'll never
see anyone like him again. But he kind of taught
us that, like, no, we can fight for these votes,
and we should fight for these votes, and we should
make our case in these areas.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And the reason it works is that Trump and Vance
are so authentic. I mean, think about if ten years ago,
I told you, Lisa, there's going to be this real
estate billionaire from New York who is going to be
the first Republican to win Star County, Texas, which has
the highest percentage of hispanics of any county in this
(06:29):
country hasn't voted Republicans since the very tail end of reconstruction.
You would say, Kevin, you've lost your ever loving mind,
and you would have been right.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Trump was able to do that, not just because of
great campaign and policy diagnosis, but because of his authenticity.
In other words, a majority of Americans and all the
places you mentioned, these blue states, are just tired of
being pandered to. They're tired of the identity politics of
the left, in addition to being tired of the terrible
policy of the policies of the Biden Harris regime.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And great lesson for those of us who.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Do politics or political messaging for a living, and that
is all of that's great, but at some point you
really do have to sort of meet people where they
are and be yourself and not pander to them. And
a majority of Americans respect the heck out of that.
And the real proof in the pudding will be is
if Trump is able to pass that baton of appealing
(07:24):
to those places and Americans in those places, whether he's
passing that to the Vice President jd. Vance or other
members of his administration, that's also a decidedly young administration
thus far, and of course that's very exciting about the future.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, Like I've been thinking, I think this is like
a wee the people election of Americans taking their power back,
you know, get offer along election of you know, wanting
the government offer back and wanting to like love and
believe in our country again, right because we've been told
for so long that America's divided its race as it's terrible,
and I think, like, you know what, No, this is
the greatest country in the world, and we're reclaiming it.
(08:00):
You know, we want to be great again, make America great.
It's so simple, I guess, you know, one thing as
we kind of get into what the next four years
will look like, and also your book as well. You know,
my only concern is that I hope the Republican Party
doesn't mistake what happened is a mandate for the Republican Party.
I mean, this is a mandate for Donald Trump and
his agenda. And he brought the House in the Senate
(08:21):
with him. And you know, I remember back in two
thousand and nine when Time magazine had a picture on
it and depicted the Republic. They said that, you know,
the Republican the RNC that the GUP was an endangered species.
And then in twenty ten, I was at the NRCC
the following midterm election and Republicans netted sixty three seats.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So we went from.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Being told that we were an endangered species species to
then going on and you know, winning the midterm elections
in a landslide. And so you know, one, we shouldn't
count the Democrat Party out, and then secondly, I think
Republicans will be punished in the midterms if they don't
deliver on the agenda that Donald Trump sold America and
(09:00):
this election cycle and promised Americans this election cycle.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Look, I think you hit the bullseye.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
It's really important, bottom line up front, that especially the
establishment part of the GOP not conclude that this election
was somehow a mandate for them and what are some now.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Pretty outdated policies.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
And so it's really important moving forward that we understand
that Trump's victory was a rebuke not just of the
Biden Harris administration, but also a rebuke of establishment Washington,
establishment Republicans in Washington. And you're already seeing some of
those battle lines within the broader Republican Party being established
(09:42):
on some of President Trump's nominations. And the advice that
I would give to people who are paying attention is
that this is just two things. Number One, these battle
lines are just the beginning of what will be, as
one of my colleagues calls them, the death throes of
the Washington Republican establishment. But secondly, it's also imperative that
(10:02):
if we learn a lesson from this election, say just
you know, regular movement conservatives, it's actually the power through
those battle lines that the establishment happens to be drawing.
Why is that important not just for political success hopefully
mitigating at the very least what's historically likely to be
midterm losses in twenty twenty six, but even more importantly
(10:25):
to your key point, actually delivering on the mandate that
was given.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
By the American people.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And that mandate was given to two men, Donald Trump
and JD. Vance to go fix this mess. And the
majority of Americans don't care if the solutions are liberal, conservative,
Republican Democrat. They simply want them fixed. I think that's
got they have to have a zealous focus on them.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
A se see Donald Trump's and JD. Vance's cabinet take shape.
What do you think this administration is going to look like.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I think it's going to be a great reflection politically,
speaking of the center right of the political spectrum. You
think about RFK, you know some things I disagree with.
I agree with him mightily on what he's being hired
to do, and he's right there in the center all
the way to the right. I think the vice president
elective course is there, although as the leading figure of
(11:18):
the so called new right, you know, there are some
what establishment Washington would call some heterodoxy. I think it
is very refreshing, but there are already and Trump hasn't
even filled all of the slots great representatives of all
of the important parts of the center right in this country.
And so politically, I think it's very smart. And then secondly,
it's also younger. I mean, for those of us who
(11:39):
are very proud generation exers, you know, the only generation
to deliver a majority to the president. I'm very happy
to see that thus far the oldest appointees are fifty
three Marco Rubio, and this is good. But then the
third thing is it is an energetic administration. It reminds
me very much, and I'll just geek out for thirty
(12:01):
seconds here, Lisa Please, an early American historian. It reminds
me of what Alexander Hamilton had in mind when he
was theorizing about what the executive the president but also
the executive branch should look like. And Trump, I think
personifies Hamilton's vision of the vigorous executive. But it's also
(12:21):
important that the executive branch be vigorous at the cabinet
level so that it can take on the part of
the executive branch, the administrative state that really has to.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Be rained in. And I think all of these men
and women, wherever.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
They are on that political spectrum, are going to do
that because that's the charge they're being given by the
president himself.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You've got a quick commercial break more with Kevin Roberts.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
On the other side, we.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Have a lot of people who are going to be
serving in government who distrust government, right right, because I
don't want people there who like love government and think
government's of the solution, right Like I love like the
fact that he's putting people like Elon and that vague
can charge of trying to go in and dismantle into
you know, you know, And I love the fact that
he's like RFK Junior is very distrusting of public health
(13:08):
and like I love that, Like I want people or
people who have been unfairly targeted by government, like I
want people in there who hate government to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's true, this, this is what we need.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And look that actually is one of the binding forces,
if you will, ideologically of the administration figures thus far,
which is that, Ay, most importantly, they love this country
and they do not accept the defeatism that it's best
days are behind it. But b they're not pollyannish about that.
And that's what I hear a lot, you know, from
(13:41):
establishment Republicans in Washington, which is that Kevin, you know,
why do you Inheritage talk about America being so weak? Well,
we're a policy organization. We call reality the way we
see it, and that's true. But then c they're actually
positing solutions to those problems, and their solutions, to your point, Lisa,
that are extremely distressful of government, and it's really important
(14:04):
that they remain focused on that. If they do that,
and also if they remain very good messengers, and that's
another thing they all share, they continue to close the
sale as it were with the American people that I
actually think you're going to sustain, if not expand, the
political will they have to get a lot of these programs,
(14:24):
let's say diminished.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, because I mean, government's not supposed to have this
big of a choke hold over our lives, like this
is not how it was supposed to be before we
get into the book and some of the solutions that
we could hopefully see over the next four years. Were
you surprised that Project twenty twenty five became like so
much campaign fodder for Kamala Harris and the left?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I was.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I mean, we were expecting that they would attack it,
because even though Heritage has led this kind of effort
every four years since nineteen eighty, we've never done it
on the scale. As you know, we had one hundred
and ten organizations join us our invitation, and the reason
we did that is because we wanted to meet this
moment as you and I were just talking about, regarding
the need to devolve power from government in Washington.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Back to the people.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
But I was surprised, we were surprised that it became
such a target for them. I saw an estimate recently
that they spent somewhere between fifty and seventy five million
dollars attacking Project twenty twenty five, and they mischaracterized almost
everything about it except one, which is that we do,
in fact, not only call for the elimination of the
(15:32):
Education Department, but.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Have the plan for it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Ultimately, I guess we should be gratified that while the
attacks seemed to work for five or six weeks, once
we started responding and getting fact checks, and once I
think the presidential campaign was able to explain, look, we're
in a different lane than this project, then they started
losing their effectiveness and.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They ultimately didn't work.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And so now what we have is double the number
of people who have volunteered to be in the personnel
database from ten thousand to twenty thousand. To state the obvious,
it's up to the president and vice president elect if
they want to hire those people. We operate in that
spirit of service. But if anything, Lisa, especially now in hindsight,
(16:14):
we realize two things moving forward. First is we're always.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Going to do this.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Heritage has always done this, so we're not going to stop.
And in fact, we're expanding this effort not just from
Washington to many state capitals, but even to some counties
and some cities where county executives and mayors have asked
for our help. But the second thing is in that
six weeks in April and May, when the Left was
beginning to use this as a campaign tactic, and we
(16:40):
decided we were not going to respond because we're careful
stewards of our donors' money. We now know next time around,
if they punch us, we punch them twice, and we're
prepared to do that in twenty twenty six and twenty
twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well also think it's because they didn't have anything to
run on. And then I also think people I also
think that people at home are like, look, I can't
put food on my table and you're talking about this
like Project twenty.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Twenty five, you know, like it's like to me, it
just kind of like.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Seemed like added to Like people are like, you know,
I don't know what this is, Like, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just want to know how, you know, how are
we going to pay the bills? What are you going
to do about the border?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, like what are you going to actually do
about like what you know, the issues that are impacting
my day to day? All right, So your new book,
Dawn's really late taking back Washington to save America. So
we have taken back Washington, at least in terms of
the balance of power. So how do we save America
now that we've got now that we've taken it back.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Now that we've taken it back, we have to have
men and women pointed not just to cabinet level positions,
but two, three, four, five levels beneath them who have
this spirit of taking back the country, have the expertise
to do so, and have a hunger for diminishing the
size of the federal government. And the good news is,
while we're in the early phase of that step, Lisa,
(17:52):
the early indications are very good. And then the third
step is we have to have legislation that accompanies this.
Much of this happen through executive order. But I think
you and I agree that we do, eventually in this
Republic want to get out of this pattern we've been
in for decades where there is sort of a yo
yo between Democrat and Republican administrations using executive orders. The
(18:14):
only way out of that is for Congress to stop
abrogating its responsibility, its own authority, and actually re establish
itself as a partner with the executive branch on this
dismantling of the administrative state. So in addition to helping
with the transition for the next administration, our scholars at
Heritage are very focused on that legislation. But what I
(18:37):
talk about in the book, sort of the punchline here,
is that Washington can only become less important if we
spend less time worrying about Washington and more time focused
on the work we're doing, not just at our state.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Capitals, but especially in our local communities.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I don't want to sound too esoteric here, but I
actually think that we can take this country back, not
just with great power in Washington, but by regenerating our
institutions at home, our k through twelve schools, our school boards,
our county commissions, our churches. In other words, every American
can play a role. And what I think is going
(19:13):
to be a golden era of policy.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
For well, I think it's like you know, you're you're
totally totally agree with you like building from you know,
the ground up, like locally and our community is on
a statewide level, and then also in d C, really
trying to get rid of this permanent bureaucracy, the deep
state trying to like dismantle and disrupt that power as
much as you can and the longest lasting way you can,
(19:36):
while simultaneously building up locally and at the state level
as well. You know, DC is hard to change, right,
Like you know, you've got the bureaucracy there. It's hard
to fire people sometimes, you know, what do you how
do you think they could go about.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Sort of loosening the grip of d C, giving.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
The space for people to build up, you know, locally
at the community level and then also within their states
as well well.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I think there are two or three channels that in
the next year year and a half will be very telling.
The first is just to talk about a DC specific solution.
These cabinet secretaries need to let vacant positions remain vacant,
and depending upon how aggressive the administration wants to be,
they can use civil service reform, which is very appropriate
(20:26):
and even good to make sure that we're diminishing the
size of the government. But the second channel is important,
and in fact, that first channel of executive action can't
be sustained in terms of the popular will unless this
second channel happens and it speaks directly to the underlying
point of your question, which is what can each of
us do as individuals.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We really do.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Need to make if we're going to make America great again,
we need to make our towns and counties and cities
and states great again. And yeah, I mean part of
what I'm saying here, and I talk about it in
the book as an academic a little bit is revitalizing federalism.
We understand that philosophically in terms of political science. But
what I try to do in the book is explain
what that actually means day to day for each of us.
(21:06):
It means just to use perhaps a silly example, but
it's one that has apropos for me as a longtime
member of the Rotary club, go to your Rotary club meetings.
Maybe you stop going because there was some person who
gave kind of a dumb talk you disagreed with, or
there's someone there you disagree with.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Go there. Re establish your bowling league.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Even if you're a grandparent your kids obviously have their
own kids, Go coach little league baseball. And I think
the following is also very important. Whatever your faith is,
if you've gotten just a little lazy, let's say, with
being part of a church, community, go back start this weekend.
It's those kinds of things that, when we add them
all up together, actually are what make this country great.
(21:50):
And it's really important that we understand not only will
the solutions in Washington be insufficient to make America great again.
Political solutions written large are insufficient. We have to do
some things in our own lives socially and culturally and
economically to participate. And then the third thing is which
is my hiby horse since the since election day, and
(22:11):
I think you will appreciate this other than say Fox
and maybe a couple of other news outlets, stop watching
and subscribing to legacy media. They're liars, they hate this country.
Stop giving them fifteen to twenty dollars a month to
tell us that X is Y and A is B.
(22:32):
Now is the time to press the advantage and really
lean into much better accurate sources of our information.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, it is interesting because Trump was really able to
bypass the media by using podcasts and like doing the
interview with like with Rogan, and then doing the interview
one acts with Elon, and so like, I think you
the media now sort of realizing like oh, like there
was like this anonymous TV exec in I think Newark
magazine that said, of Trump were to win, it would
mean the death of mainstream media. And so I think
(22:59):
you've got a lot of media now scrambling being like, Okay,
we can't lie to people like you know, like like
they're not buying what we're selling, right, I think American
like it's your point, you know. I think people are
kind of turning out out all this stuff because they're
realizing that, you know, we've been lied to and divided
for so long.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I think one thing that's been cool recently too is
just saying, like the culture shift, right because you know,
as we're talking about sort of you know in your
book as well, about just sort of like taking back
institutions and and and you know, building from the ground
up locally, and we've realized how important school boards are
as well, but like also just the culture, and you know,
we're sort of seeing those shifts you know, take place
(23:35):
as well, which I think is.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know, is a very positive movement.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Yeah, what you see is a re emergence of common sense.
Think about as part of the broader culture war, the
fight against transgender ideology, those of us who have been
fighting that from its early days in policy and politics,
spent the better part of the last decade sort of
on an island wondering when.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
The politicians would wake up.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
And none other than Donald Trump brought this to life
because of the work of many great people, Rightley Gains
cultural figures, you yourself, other media figures on the political
right who have been courageous enough at a time when
the legacy media and the Republican establishment didn't want you
to talk about this, but talking about it, and then ultimately,
if I can use this metaphor of fire, which I
(24:26):
try to use in the book as a regenerative tool,
you kept the fire alive, the fire of truth, to
the point that that was a deciding factor, the fact
that Donald Trump and JD fans said repeatedly that there
boys or boys and girls or girls, that in fact,
the presidential election was one because of stating biological reality.
(24:47):
That's where we are in this country, which is to say,
a very vocal minority have been abusing kids in particular,
but the large silent majority of Americans said enough is
enough and we want this fix. And I think that
is in microcosm, that issue, in microcosm is what we're
going to see in the near future and in the
(25:08):
midterm future for the United States if in fact, our
leaders continue to be willing to reject what the legacy
media say.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Quick break, stay with us. What I've realized is that,
especially in the media, is if you stay firm and
you don't bend the knee, eventually everyone else will catch up.
It's like it's just dicey for like a short period
of time, and then but then the irony is that
the people who went along with like pronouns and transgender
stuff and all this nonsense after the fact will be like,
(25:37):
oh yeah, I try to act like they always stood strong,
and you're like, I'm pretty sure you were like you know,
calling a man a woman, and you know, like going
along with it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like the same thing with like vaccines.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Like after the fact, you know, all these people like
went along with it, and then after the fact they're like,
oh yeah, what a terrible chapter. And you're like, well, dude,
you were like telling everyone to get vaccine.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You know, like where were you and it was you.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Know, when things were uh where things were dicey, and
you know it was a bad situation. But anyways, I digress. Well,
this sounds like, I love this book.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
What do you hope before we go? What do you
hope people take away from it?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I hope they take real, substantive reasons to be hopeful
about the American future. By using this title Down's Early Light,
obviously referencing our national anthem, I want people to understand
there are reasons to be encouraged and inspired, especially given
the outcome of the election, but that it actually is
incumbent upon us.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
This is the main lesson.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
It isn't that politics and policy will be the answer.
It's that if, in fact, as Francis Scott Key did
two hundred ten years ago, believe that through the fog
of political war, we can see old glory again.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I do believe we are.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
That it's incumbent upon us if in fact we want
to take our country back, to do everything well, to
be great members of our community, great members of our family.
We're going into the long holiday season in the new year.
It's a great time to rekindle those relationships. That may
sound a little goofy Lisa, coming from the leader of
the largest conservative think tank in the world, but I
(27:09):
actually believe that's how we make our politics better, not
any less conservative.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You know me and Heritage, we.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Are unabashedly conservative and we will never rollover when it
comes to defending our founding principles and conservatism. But also
think that our Good Lord has given us this opportunity
to go down this path, and we ought to have
a spring in our step as we do it because
I think this is the beginning of a golden era
for this country.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I do too, and it's a great timing for the
book because I think we're in the best position we've
been in a very long time to take the country back,
and then you obviously outline ways we can do it.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And the path forward.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So Kevin Robert's always great to talk to you. Great
to have you on the show, and congratulations on the
book and happy Thanksgiving same to you.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Thank for having you. Yeah, thanks for everything you do, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That was Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and
author of the new book Down's Early Late, Taking Back
Washington to Save America.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Appreciate him for making the time.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. I want to
thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the show
together until next time.
This was a wee the people election, It get off
our lawn election. We took our power back as the
American people after experiencing the heavy hand of government since COVID,
even before that, remember when Obama targeted the Tea Party
with the IRS. Americans are sick and tired of this.
We want our power back, we want our country back,
(00:22):
we want patriotism back, we want common sense back. We
want an economy that doesn't punish hard working taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So that's what this election was about.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But now that we have the majority, now that we
have the White House, now that we have the House,
now that we have the Senate, what do we do
with it? What does the path forward look like? We'll
talk to someone who wrote the book about it. The
book is called Don's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to
Save America. So now that we've taken back Washington, how
do we save America. Kevin Roberts is the author. He
(00:54):
is the president of the Heritage Foundation. He also has
a PhD in American history.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So this is his.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Passion and this is what he has spent his life's work,
his career on talking about American history. So we'll get
into this conversation with him, you know, what did the next.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Four years look like?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
How do we build a long lasting Republican majority, How
do we rebuild these institutions that have been failing us
for so long? So all of that more with my
friend Kevin Roberts. Stay tuned, Kevin Roberts. It's great to
have you on this show. So the last time we
were on it was a little depressing. We were in
(01:33):
the midst of feeling like, you know, maybe this is
the end of the Republic and you know, wondering or
for institutions would be able to hold. And thank god,
things have changed in the past couple of weeks and
because of Donald Trump's victory and Republicans retaking Congress, and
it really does feel like a new day in America.
I don't know about you, Kevin, but I feel like
(01:54):
this weight's just been lifted off her shoulders, you know,
feeling a pride in the country again and just feeling
of renewed hope. Is that how you've been feeling or
you know, what's the past couple of weeks been like
for you?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah? I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You know, as you do, Lisa, I travel the country
for work and happily, because it's always nice to get
out of the neighborhood of Washington elites, where heritage operates
behind enemy lines, and be with ordinary Americans.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And you know, whether on the Gulf Coast or Florida.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Or the West Coast, or even in New York City recently,
people use that same metaphor, which is that they feel
like a weight's been lifted from their shoulders are in
some cases, if you think about small and medium sized
business owners off of their chest, that they can actually
breathe again. And I think it speaks to this point
that you open with, which is that the last time
(02:44):
we visited, we were concerned about the deterioration of our institutions,
which is a way of saying, sort of on a
day to day basis that Americans are feeling like the
American dream is slipping away. And once again, a majority
of Americans since that and decided.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
That they want to do elect demand who's.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Proven that he's able to confront that. The real test
is going to be the real hard work is going
to be what comes up in the next months, which
is actually implementing those policies that rehabilitate the American Dream.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, the irony is, you know, they called him Hitler,
and yet he's uniting the nations.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
It's amazing, isn't it. But they still won't.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Give him his victory, Like, you know, I'm reading all
these headlines like, oh, the Trump's mandate is a myth,
Like Donald Trump's mandate isn't as strong as it s
Like they just they won't ever even in victory, Like
they just can't give him the credit that he's so rightfully.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Fought for and earned.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
They cannot bring themselves to do it.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I will say that I've taken a bit of a
sadistic pleasure in watching radical leftists contort themselves over Trump
winning the popular vote. And then this related point you make,
which is just giving him credit for not only meeting
the political moment, but also doing so in a way
that's very substantive in terms of the policy diagnosis that
(04:05):
he articulated and as well as the solutions. And you
and I were just touching base informally throughout the campaign,
and there was a particular point, not to speak for you,
although I remember you and I being on the same
page where I thought the Trump Vance campaign hadn't yet
found its footing as it relates to the policy diagnosis
(04:25):
and solutions, and that's very normal and natural, by the way.
But once they did so coming out of the DNC
convention in response to what was a mildly successful convention
for the vice president, and they found that footing, then
you saw those polls closed and they really flipped when
jd Vance debated Tim Waltz. And the reason jd Vance
(04:45):
I think did so well is because of this emphasis
on policy substance, on articulating where we need to go
from here. And I am fully convinced that, in fact,
they will do so. And that's why it's so difficult
for all these talking heads on the left to even
bring themselves to admit that these two guys actually have
already been successful.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, I think one thing.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That Trump taught us to which I feel like Republicans
have been reluctant to do so in the past, is
like to go into the blue territories to fight for
these votes, to let these voters know that, like, no, we.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Want you on our team.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
You know, like you really expanded the tent in a
way that you know, I don't know if Republicans have
been able to do so in the past or at
least not for a very long time. I mean, you
look at even some of these blue states like New
York swinging and his direction by I think something like
eleven point five percent, New Jersey by ten percent, California
by eight percent, winning you know, some of these majority
Hispanic counties winning Dearborn, Michigan, the biggest majority Arab city
(05:40):
in the country, you know, winning Native Americans, you know,
Asian swinging in his direction, Black swinging his direct you know.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like just he really went in and he fought in.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
These areas, and so I think you're like moving forward,
you know. I mean, look, Trump's such a unique entity, right,
Like he's a probably a what you know, we'll never
see anyone like him again. But he kind of taught
us that, like, no, we can fight for these votes,
and we should fight for these votes, and we should
make our case in these areas.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And the reason it works is that Trump and Vance
are so authentic. I mean, think about if ten years ago,
I told you, Lisa, there's going to be this real
estate billionaire from New York who is going to be
the first Republican to win Star County, Texas, which has
the highest percentage of hispanics of any county in this
(06:29):
country hasn't voted Republicans since the very tail end of reconstruction.
You would say, Kevin, you've lost your ever loving mind,
and you would have been right.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Trump was able to do that, not just because of
great campaign and policy diagnosis, but because of his authenticity.
In other words, a majority of Americans and all the
places you mentioned, these blue states, are just tired of
being pandered to. They're tired of the identity politics of
the left, in addition to being tired of the terrible
policy of the policies of the Biden Harris regime.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And great lesson for those of us who.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Do politics or political messaging for a living, and that
is all of that's great, but at some point you
really do have to sort of meet people where they
are and be yourself and not pander to them. And
a majority of Americans respect the heck out of that.
And the real proof in the pudding will be is
if Trump is able to pass that baton of appealing
(07:24):
to those places and Americans in those places, whether he's
passing that to the Vice President jd. Vance or other
members of his administration, that's also a decidedly young administration
thus far, and of course that's very exciting about the future.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, Like I've been thinking, I think this is like
a wee the people election of Americans taking their power back,
you know, get offer along election of you know, wanting
the government offer back and wanting to like love and
believe in our country again, right because we've been told
for so long that America's divided its race as it's terrible,
and I think, like, you know what, No, this is
the greatest country in the world, and we're reclaiming it.
(08:00):
You know, we want to be great again, make America great.
It's so simple, I guess, you know, one thing as
we kind of get into what the next four years
will look like, and also your book as well. You know,
my only concern is that I hope the Republican Party
doesn't mistake what happened is a mandate for the Republican Party.
I mean, this is a mandate for Donald Trump and
his agenda. And he brought the House in the Senate
(08:21):
with him. And you know, I remember back in two
thousand and nine when Time magazine had a picture on
it and depicted the Republic. They said that, you know,
the Republican the RNC that the GUP was an endangered species.
And then in twenty ten, I was at the NRCC
the following midterm election and Republicans netted sixty three seats.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So we went from.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Being told that we were an endangered species species to
then going on and you know, winning the midterm elections
in a landslide. And so you know, one, we shouldn't
count the Democrat Party out, and then secondly, I think
Republicans will be punished in the midterms if they don't
deliver on the agenda that Donald Trump sold America and
(09:00):
this election cycle and promised Americans this election cycle.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Look, I think you hit the bullseye.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
It's really important, bottom line up front, that especially the
establishment part of the GOP not conclude that this election
was somehow a mandate for them and what are some now.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Pretty outdated policies.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
And so it's really important moving forward that we understand
that Trump's victory was a rebuke not just of the
Biden Harris administration, but also a rebuke of establishment Washington,
establishment Republicans in Washington. And you're already seeing some of
those battle lines within the broader Republican Party being established
(09:42):
on some of President Trump's nominations. And the advice that
I would give to people who are paying attention is
that this is just two things. Number One, these battle
lines are just the beginning of what will be, as
one of my colleagues calls them, the death throes of
the Washington Republican establishment. But secondly, it's also imperative that
(10:02):
if we learn a lesson from this election, say just
you know, regular movement conservatives, it's actually the power through
those battle lines that the establishment happens to be drawing.
Why is that important not just for political success hopefully
mitigating at the very least what's historically likely to be
midterm losses in twenty twenty six, but even more importantly
(10:25):
to your key point, actually delivering on the mandate that
was given.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
By the American people.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And that mandate was given to two men, Donald Trump
and JD. Vance to go fix this mess. And the
majority of Americans don't care if the solutions are liberal, conservative,
Republican Democrat. They simply want them fixed. I think that's
got they have to have a zealous focus on them.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
A se see Donald Trump's and JD. Vance's cabinet take shape.
What do you think this administration is going to look like.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I think it's going to be a great reflection politically,
speaking of the center right of the political spectrum. You
think about RFK, you know some things I disagree with.
I agree with him mightily on what he's being hired
to do, and he's right there in the center all
the way to the right. I think the vice president
elective course is there, although as the leading figure of
(11:18):
the so called new right, you know, there are some
what establishment Washington would call some heterodoxy. I think it
is very refreshing, but there are already and Trump hasn't
even filled all of the slots great representatives of all
of the important parts of the center right in this country.
And so politically, I think it's very smart. And then secondly,
it's also younger. I mean, for those of us who
(11:39):
are very proud generation exers, you know, the only generation
to deliver a majority to the president. I'm very happy
to see that thus far the oldest appointees are fifty
three Marco Rubio, and this is good. But then the
third thing is it is an energetic administration. It reminds
me very much, and I'll just geek out for thirty
(12:01):
seconds here, Lisa Please, an early American historian. It reminds
me of what Alexander Hamilton had in mind when he
was theorizing about what the executive the president but also
the executive branch should look like. And Trump, I think
personifies Hamilton's vision of the vigorous executive. But it's also
(12:21):
important that the executive branch be vigorous at the cabinet
level so that it can take on the part of
the executive branch, the administrative state that really has to.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Be rained in. And I think all of these men
and women, wherever.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
They are on that political spectrum, are going to do
that because that's the charge they're being given by the
president himself.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You've got a quick commercial break more with Kevin Roberts.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
On the other side, we.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Have a lot of people who are going to be
serving in government who distrust government, right right, because I
don't want people there who like love government and think
government's of the solution, right Like I love like the
fact that he's putting people like Elon and that vague
can charge of trying to go in and dismantle into
you know, you know, And I love the fact that
he's like RFK Junior is very distrusting of public health
(13:08):
and like I love that, Like I want people or
people who have been unfairly targeted by government, like I
want people in there who hate government to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's true, this, this is what we need.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And look that actually is one of the binding forces,
if you will, ideologically of the administration figures thus far,
which is that, Ay, most importantly, they love this country
and they do not accept the defeatism that it's best
days are behind it. But b they're not pollyannish about that.
And that's what I hear a lot, you know, from
(13:41):
establishment Republicans in Washington, which is that Kevin, you know,
why do you Inheritage talk about America being so weak? Well,
we're a policy organization. We call reality the way we
see it, and that's true. But then c they're actually
positing solutions to those problems, and their solutions, to your point, Lisa,
that are extremely distressful of government, and it's really important
(14:04):
that they remain focused on that. If they do that,
and also if they remain very good messengers, and that's
another thing they all share, they continue to close the
sale as it were with the American people that I
actually think you're going to sustain, if not expand, the
political will they have to get a lot of these programs,
(14:24):
let's say diminished.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, because I mean, government's not supposed to have this
big of a choke hold over our lives, like this
is not how it was supposed to be before we
get into the book and some of the solutions that
we could hopefully see over the next four years. Were
you surprised that Project twenty twenty five became like so
much campaign fodder for Kamala Harris and the left?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I was.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I mean, we were expecting that they would attack it,
because even though Heritage has led this kind of effort
every four years since nineteen eighty, we've never done it
on the scale. As you know, we had one hundred
and ten organizations join us our invitation, and the reason
we did that is because we wanted to meet this
moment as you and I were just talking about, regarding
the need to devolve power from government in Washington.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Back to the people.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
But I was surprised, we were surprised that it became
such a target for them. I saw an estimate recently
that they spent somewhere between fifty and seventy five million
dollars attacking Project twenty twenty five, and they mischaracterized almost
everything about it except one, which is that we do,
in fact, not only call for the elimination of the
(15:32):
Education Department, but.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Have the plan for it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Ultimately, I guess we should be gratified that while the
attacks seemed to work for five or six weeks, once
we started responding and getting fact checks, and once I
think the presidential campaign was able to explain, look, we're
in a different lane than this project, then they started
losing their effectiveness and.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They ultimately didn't work.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And so now what we have is double the number
of people who have volunteered to be in the personnel
database from ten thousand to twenty thousand. To state the obvious,
it's up to the president and vice president elect if
they want to hire those people. We operate in that
spirit of service. But if anything, Lisa, especially now in hindsight,
(16:14):
we realize two things moving forward. First is we're always.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Going to do this.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Heritage has always done this, so we're not going to stop.
And in fact, we're expanding this effort not just from
Washington to many state capitals, but even to some counties
and some cities where county executives and mayors have asked
for our help. But the second thing is in that
six weeks in April and May, when the Left was
beginning to use this as a campaign tactic, and we
(16:40):
decided we were not going to respond because we're careful
stewards of our donors' money. We now know next time around,
if they punch us, we punch them twice, and we're
prepared to do that in twenty twenty six and twenty
twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well also think it's because they didn't have anything to
run on. And then I also think people I also
think that people at home are like, look, I can't
put food on my table and you're talking about this
like Project twenty.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Twenty five, you know, like it's like to me, it
just kind of like.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Seemed like added to Like people are like, you know,
I don't know what this is, Like, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just want to know how, you know, how are
we going to pay the bills? What are you going
to do about the border?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, like what are you going to actually do
about like what you know, the issues that are impacting
my day to day? All right, So your new book,
Dawn's really late taking back Washington to save America. So
we have taken back Washington, at least in terms of
the balance of power. So how do we save America
now that we've got now that we've taken it back.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Now that we've taken it back, we have to have
men and women pointed not just to cabinet level positions,
but two, three, four, five levels beneath them who have
this spirit of taking back the country, have the expertise
to do so, and have a hunger for diminishing the
size of the federal government. And the good news is,
while we're in the early phase of that step, Lisa,
(17:52):
the early indications are very good. And then the third
step is we have to have legislation that accompanies this.
Much of this happen through executive order. But I think
you and I agree that we do, eventually in this
Republic want to get out of this pattern we've been
in for decades where there is sort of a yo
yo between Democrat and Republican administrations using executive orders. The
(18:14):
only way out of that is for Congress to stop
abrogating its responsibility, its own authority, and actually re establish
itself as a partner with the executive branch on this
dismantling of the administrative state. So in addition to helping
with the transition for the next administration, our scholars at
Heritage are very focused on that legislation. But what I
(18:37):
talk about in the book, sort of the punchline here,
is that Washington can only become less important if we
spend less time worrying about Washington and more time focused
on the work we're doing, not just at our state.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Capitals, but especially in our local communities.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I don't want to sound too esoteric here, but I
actually think that we can take this country back, not
just with great power in Washington, but by regenerating our
institutions at home, our k through twelve schools, our school boards,
our county commissions, our churches. In other words, every American
can play a role. And what I think is going
(19:13):
to be a golden era of policy.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
For well, I think it's like you know, you're you're
totally totally agree with you like building from you know,
the ground up, like locally and our community is on
a statewide level, and then also in d C, really
trying to get rid of this permanent bureaucracy, the deep
state trying to like dismantle and disrupt that power as
much as you can and the longest lasting way you can,
(19:36):
while simultaneously building up locally and at the state level
as well. You know, DC is hard to change, right,
Like you know, you've got the bureaucracy there. It's hard
to fire people sometimes, you know, what do you how
do you think they could go about.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Sort of loosening the grip of d C, giving.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
The space for people to build up, you know, locally
at the community level and then also within their states
as well well.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I think there are two or three channels that in
the next year year and a half will be very telling.
The first is just to talk about a DC specific solution.
These cabinet secretaries need to let vacant positions remain vacant,
and depending upon how aggressive the administration wants to be,
they can use civil service reform, which is very appropriate
(20:26):
and even good to make sure that we're diminishing the
size of the government. But the second channel is important,
and in fact, that first channel of executive action can't
be sustained in terms of the popular will unless this
second channel happens and it speaks directly to the underlying
point of your question, which is what can each of
us do as individuals.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We really do.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Need to make if we're going to make America great again,
we need to make our towns and counties and cities
and states great again. And yeah, I mean part of
what I'm saying here, and I talk about it in
the book as an academic a little bit is revitalizing federalism.
We understand that philosophically in terms of political science. But
what I try to do in the book is explain
what that actually means day to day for each of us.
(21:06):
It means just to use perhaps a silly example, but
it's one that has apropos for me as a longtime
member of the Rotary club, go to your Rotary club meetings.
Maybe you stop going because there was some person who
gave kind of a dumb talk you disagreed with, or
there's someone there you disagree with.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Go there. Re establish your bowling league.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Even if you're a grandparent your kids obviously have their
own kids, Go coach little league baseball. And I think
the following is also very important. Whatever your faith is,
if you've gotten just a little lazy, let's say, with
being part of a church, community, go back start this weekend.
It's those kinds of things that, when we add them
all up together, actually are what make this country great.
(21:50):
And it's really important that we understand not only will
the solutions in Washington be insufficient to make America great again.
Political solutions written large are insufficient. We have to do
some things in our own lives socially and culturally and
economically to participate. And then the third thing is which
is my hiby horse since the since election day, and
(22:11):
I think you will appreciate this other than say Fox
and maybe a couple of other news outlets, stop watching
and subscribing to legacy media. They're liars, they hate this country.
Stop giving them fifteen to twenty dollars a month to
tell us that X is Y and A is B.
(22:32):
Now is the time to press the advantage and really
lean into much better accurate sources of our information.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, it is interesting because Trump was really able to
bypass the media by using podcasts and like doing the
interview with like with Rogan, and then doing the interview
one acts with Elon, and so like, I think you
the media now sort of realizing like oh, like there
was like this anonymous TV exec in I think Newark
magazine that said, of Trump were to win, it would
mean the death of mainstream media. And so I think
(22:59):
you've got a lot of media now scrambling being like, Okay,
we can't lie to people like you know, like like
they're not buying what we're selling, right, I think American
like it's your point, you know. I think people are
kind of turning out out all this stuff because they're
realizing that, you know, we've been lied to and divided
for so long.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I think one thing that's been cool recently too is
just saying, like the culture shift, right because you know,
as we're talking about sort of you know in your
book as well, about just sort of like taking back
institutions and and and you know, building from the ground
up locally, and we've realized how important school boards are
as well, but like also just the culture, and you know,
we're sort of seeing those shifts you know, take place
(23:35):
as well, which I think is.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know, is a very positive movement.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Yeah, what you see is a re emergence of common sense.
Think about as part of the broader culture war, the
fight against transgender ideology, those of us who have been
fighting that from its early days in policy and politics,
spent the better part of the last decade sort of
on an island wondering when.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
The politicians would wake up.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
And none other than Donald Trump brought this to life
because of the work of many great people, Rightley Gains
cultural figures, you yourself, other media figures on the political
right who have been courageous enough at a time when
the legacy media and the Republican establishment didn't want you
to talk about this, but talking about it, and then ultimately,
if I can use this metaphor of fire, which I
(24:26):
try to use in the book as a regenerative tool,
you kept the fire alive, the fire of truth, to
the point that that was a deciding factor, the fact
that Donald Trump and JD fans said repeatedly that there
boys or boys and girls or girls, that in fact,
the presidential election was one because of stating biological reality.
(24:47):
That's where we are in this country, which is to say,
a very vocal minority have been abusing kids in particular,
but the large silent majority of Americans said enough is
enough and we want this fix. And I think that
is in microcosm, that issue, in microcosm is what we're
going to see in the near future and in the
(25:08):
midterm future for the United States if in fact, our
leaders continue to be willing to reject what the legacy
media say.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Quick break, stay with us. What I've realized is that,
especially in the media, is if you stay firm and
you don't bend the knee, eventually everyone else will catch up.
It's like it's just dicey for like a short period
of time, and then but then the irony is that
the people who went along with like pronouns and transgender
stuff and all this nonsense after the fact will be like,
(25:37):
oh yeah, I try to act like they always stood strong,
and you're like, I'm pretty sure you were like you know,
calling a man a woman, and you know, like going
along with it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like the same thing with like vaccines.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Like after the fact, you know, all these people like
went along with it, and then after the fact they're like,
oh yeah, what a terrible chapter. And you're like, well, dude,
you were like telling everyone to get vaccine.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You know, like where were you and it was you.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Know, when things were uh where things were dicey, and
you know it was a bad situation. But anyways, I digress. Well,
this sounds like, I love this book.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
What do you hope before we go? What do you
hope people take away from it?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I hope they take real, substantive reasons to be hopeful
about the American future. By using this title Down's Early Light,
obviously referencing our national anthem, I want people to understand
there are reasons to be encouraged and inspired, especially given
the outcome of the election, but that it actually is
incumbent upon us.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
This is the main lesson.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
It isn't that politics and policy will be the answer.
It's that if, in fact, as Francis Scott Key did
two hundred ten years ago, believe that through the fog
of political war, we can see old glory again.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I do believe we are.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
That it's incumbent upon us if in fact we want
to take our country back, to do everything well, to
be great members of our community, great members of our family.
We're going into the long holiday season in the new year.
It's a great time to rekindle those relationships. That may
sound a little goofy Lisa, coming from the leader of
the largest conservative think tank in the world, but I
(27:09):
actually believe that's how we make our politics better, not
any less conservative.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You know me and Heritage, we.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Are unabashedly conservative and we will never rollover when it
comes to defending our founding principles and conservatism. But also
think that our Good Lord has given us this opportunity
to go down this path, and we ought to have
a spring in our step as we do it because
I think this is the beginning of a golden era
for this country.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I do too, and it's a great timing for the
book because I think we're in the best position we've
been in a very long time to take the country back,
and then you obviously outline ways we can do it.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And the path forward.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So Kevin Robert's always great to talk to you. Great
to have you on the show, and congratulations on the
book and happy Thanksgiving same to you.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Thank for having you. Yeah, thanks for everything you do, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That was Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and
author of the new book Down's Early Late, Taking Back
Washington to Save America.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Appreciate him for making the time.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. I want to
thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the show
together until next time.
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