May 18, 2024 • 37 mins
Continuation of Clay and Buck's interview with President Trump on immigration, Israel, whether Biden will remain the Democrat nominee and more. Highlights from Michael Cohen's testimony at the Trump trial. Case could go to the jury soon, what will happen? C&B end the show with calls.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
In hour number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We
appreciate all of you, but hanging out with us for
the first couple of hours. If that was you, and
we hope any of you it was the case. You
heard Donald Trump with us in the first hour. Now
you will hear the second part of our interview with
Donald Trump. He's in court right now during our show,
(00:23):
but he wanted to make sure that you all heard
from him, so we talked to him yesterday evening.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
This is what it sounded like.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I won't make you say it, but I think you
know Biden is behind this, not Biden himself, because he's
not smart enough for mentally competent enough to be able
to organize all of this anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Which leads me into this.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, he's got guys having to help him walk
to the helicopter, as you well know, across the lawn there.
He can't read off the teleprompter. You see all the
screw ups on a regular basis. Do you really think
he's going to be running against you? Do you think
he'll they'll let him debate you, or do you think
they're gonna pull a bait and switch at the last minute.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I mean, I personally don't think so. But I've been
saying that for a while. I personally don't think so.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
But you know, you don't think he's gonna run.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
You don't think he's gonna run. Not that they're not
going to pull a bait and switch, but you don't
think he's able.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I think at some point he goes out. I think, so,
what do I know? You know, I mean, I can
only say that here he is, and he was never
the sharpest bulb in the room ever, and now he's
It's so dangerous for our country. You know, we're dealing
with Putin, We're dealing with President Shiv, China, Kim Jonglin.
We're dealing with these people that are one hundred percent
(01:34):
there at the top of their game and they can't
believe it. And this, you know, could lead to Third
World War. This is we still have a little bit
more than five months to go. And actually, if you
really look, I guess September. Toward the end of September,
Pennsylvania starts, and so we're really talking about a lot
less than that, because we really have to think in
terms of that when they start, you know, in the
(01:54):
old days, would have a one day election, they would
have paper ballots and would have a lot of good things.
Now we have elections that start forty five days earlier
than they're opposed to, and they keep going, they keep
going until they get enough ballots. This is their form
of cheating. And I have a voice, so I'm able
to talk about it. And you know, it's been I mean,
it's never pleasant doing this, but we have to. These
(02:16):
are fascists. But you know, if they have a good
congressman and they send him a subpoena, he might as
well resign because he doesn't have a chance of explaining
to people to vote for him anymore. So I have
such respect for the American public because they fed them
all this nonsense. It's just garbage. You take a look
at these what they've done. Well, look at this case.
(02:36):
Look at the way it's playing out again, not one
legal experts does they even have a case. There's not
even a crime. And it's a very sad day in America,
and it's a very sad day for New York. But
you take a look at Atlanta with Fani and her
lover Wade, and you know that's a whole scam. And
Jack Smith's two cases as a whole scam, the whole
(02:58):
thing he was done because they want to hit Biden's
opponent is political opponent, to see if they can get
him over the line. I don't think it's going to work.
I tell you, because you saw the crowd in New Jersey.
It may have been the largest crowd ever for a
not just in New Jersey. I mean it was well
over one hundred thousand people. We expected forty five thousand
we had. I mean, you guys saw the crowd. Oh yeah,
(03:19):
I don't think you've ever seen a crowd like that
at a political event. Yeah, great honor.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
In terms of fixing the country, saving the country, sir,
you mentioned some of the foreign challenges. I think, and
you know this as well better than anybody. If you're
looking at challenges for America right now, the wide open
Biden border is absolutely top of the list. People are outraged.
It's going to be eight million at least. I mean,
that's going to be the official number by the time
votes are being cast. Eight million illegals under Biden. Who
(03:46):
knows how many actually in the country. You've talked about
finishing the wall, and you've talked about deportations. What can
you tell us about the first ninety days of a
Trump forty seven presidency on those two issues.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, first of all, it's it's not eight million, it's
fifteen million are already in the country, in my opinion,
and a lot of them come from prisons and jails.
They come from mental institutions, and I go a step
beyond that, from insane asylums. You got a lot of
terrorists coming into the country. Now we're gonna have to
deport We're gonna have a very large scale deportation operation,
(04:20):
and nobody wants to do that. We have no choice.
It's not sustainable by any country. There's no country that
a thing like this is sustainable by. You can't you
can't have it. I mean, I look at I'm in
New York right now, and you see what's going on
with people. They're taking up You don't have the use
of parks, you don't have the use of schools and hospitals.
(04:42):
It's the whole quality of life in our country is
changing because of this, and nobody can say it's good.
Politically now, of course, what they're trying to do is
register people to vote, because that's another form of cheating. Also,
there are two big forms are that they are new
forms that they're adding into their arsenal because they're bad
at every everything. Policy is no good. Look at Afghanistan.
(05:02):
That disaster the most embarrassing day in the history of
the country. Their policy is no good. They want high
te you know, if they won, taxes are going to
go up by four times, four times for middle class
but four times. And you know, they're no good at policy.
The only thing they're really good at is cheating. And
they have two new methods, and one is the weaponization,
(05:23):
which is what I'm putting up with and others too,
but I'm you know, I'm definitely I'm the key, There's
no question about it. And then the other is having
to do having to register voters because they're taking these
people who can't speak English, who don't even know what
this country is, and they're registering them and trying to
get them out to vote. And I only implore the
(05:46):
Republicans to be tough because they don't play as tough
a game. Unfortunately, there's so much better on policy, so
much better on so many but they're not better when
it comes to this stuff. Fellaws.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's a terrible thing, terrible You no New York City,
Well you also know the Ivy League. Well, because you're
a graduate, you got called an anti Semite, which is
unbelievable considering your daughter is Jewish and you got Jewish grandchildren.
Joe Biden said he ran for president because of Charlottesville,
bought into the very fine people hoax. When you see
(06:20):
his failure to stand up for Jewish people and for
Israel's right to defend itself, how sick does it make
you to your stomach? And also how weak is the
media to not remotely be holding him to the same
standard they do for all the country as they did
for you.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
For Charlottesville by itself.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's true. So he is the worst president we've ever
had in the history of our country. But he's the
worst president that Israel has ever had in the United States.
It's not even a contest. He's a horror show. And
I'm the best president that Israel's ever had. I mean
what I've done for Israel between the Capitol and and
the Iran nuclear deal by the way, you know, let's
not forget a about that. That could have been the
(07:01):
best of all. But they didn't do anything with it.
You know, they could, they could have had a deal
so fast with Iran. I would have had a deal.
You know, Iran was broke when I was president. They
wanted to make a deal. Now Iran is a rich
country again. Iran has two hundred and fifty billion dollars
worth of cash because of the oil and because we
give them six billion dollars every time there's a hostage
(07:21):
trade to end up with six million dollars. We gave
them ten billion dollars for electricity to Iraq.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But they are rich.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They have two hundred and fifty billion dollars in cash
right now. It's a tougher negotiation by a factor of fifty.
But I am the best president ever ever for Israel
by far. And he's the worst president ever. And who
would think it? Who would think it?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Not surprising to us given Biden's history of failure on
the foreign policy from mister president. But right in terms
of you know, they've walked away from the Biden economy,
you're not hearing about that, You know, Biden's economy anymore
in Glatian still stubborn, people paying high prices. Why did
this happen under this president? And what are you going
(08:07):
to do to change things around when you win.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So when he came in, he stopped the oil. And
when he stopped you and now he's let it go
back to where I was, because otherwise he would have
you'd have oil it you'd be paying so much for
gasoline that people wouldn't even believe it. But already it's
getting close to four dollars, and in California it's over
seven dollars. It's creeping up very rapidly. But he stopped
the oil, and that caused the inflation very simply. And
(08:31):
we're going to bring energy way down. Energy costs are
going to be way down, and places like New England
where you have the highest energy courses, New York, where
you have the highest energy costs in the whole country,
by far, I'll be able to cut their energy bills
in half and quickly. These people, that's what caused it,
what they did with his stupid energy policies. He also
(08:53):
made other countries rich. He made Russia so rich that
they said, gee, whiz, I'm going to go you know,
a combination of that and Afghanistan where Putin said, wow,
I'm going to go and attack Ukraine. Now you know,
he had oil, left almost one hundred dollars a barrel.
When that happens, Putin makes his money from oil. They
became rich, and they attacked, and that's what happened. It's
(09:13):
a sad thing, so sad to see what's happened to
our country in a period of three and a half years.
But we're going to make it. We'll make it greater
than ever before. You watch the border. We had the
strongest border ever. I built five hundred and seventy one
miles of wall. We're going to add another two hundred
and three weeks. It was all made, all fabricated. They
sold it for five cents on the dollar. The wall
(09:35):
was all fabricated. I built much more wall than I
said I was going to build, but we did five
hundred and seventy one miles. We had the strongest border
in history. We had remained in Mexico. You couldn't come
in yet to say in Mexico. All of these things
out the window when this character came in, and look,
he has no clue what he's doing. But he's surrounded
(09:56):
by very smart fascists, and the only thing they know
how to do is stay in power. That's about the
only thing they're good at. But we're going to beat
him big in five months.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Last question for you, we know you're busy keep up
the fight at the trial because you know, I think
you're adding more supporters every single day. I think it's
backfired on them. This is a light question for you.
I know you're a huge sports fan. I don't know
if you've got a chance to see the Tom Brady
roast that it aired on Netflix or any of the segments.
Robert Kraft, your old friend, told Vladimir Putin that he
(10:29):
wanted his NFL Super Bowl ring back. Putin, he says,
stole it. Have you ever been roasted like that? Are
you surprised that Tom Brady, who I know you're a
big fan of, took it And would you ever want
to do something like that?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well? I was roasted on Comedy Central and before I
was long before I was president, actually, and it was
not a pleasant evening.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I will tell you. They roasted me.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
They roasted the hell out of me. But it's fun. Look,
it was a good cause, money went to charity, a
lot of good things, and but no, I was roasted.
If you have a look at that one, you'll see
what a roast is all about.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
But when Clay got roasted by the view recently, mister president,
I did know it can.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Happens on a daily basis.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I was on Whoopies movie. She made a movie, a
basketball movie. So could you do the movie for me?
Could you do? Joy Behar would see what she would
do for me, She'd do anything. All of a sudden,
I run for politics and they pretend like, gee, we
hate check out Whoopies movie. I said, take me out
of your movie. I did a big cameo in Whoopies movie.
(11:33):
You know it's you are still the.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Best part of Home Alone too. By the way, So
for those of.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Us that remember that's a good one. That was a
very good one.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Mister president. We know you got to go and you know,
defeat all the nonsense and win a huge election and
make history again. Play and buck here with you. Thank
you so much, really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
As always, well, I appreciate you guys. You do a
fantastic job. And we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There you go, Clay. That was the second part of
our exclusive interview with President Trump. We covered a lot
of ground, which is one of the great things about
sitting down with the president is you can go on,
you can go anywhere in terms of the conversation. If
there's no there's no, oh the handlers haven't prepped him
(12:17):
for that one, or oh, without a prompter, he doesn't
know what to say. You can talk to the guy
about your favorite movie from the eighties. You can talk
to him about rock bands, or you can talk to
him about staring down Kim jong un, actually staring down
Kim Jong un. So yeah, there's a lot that you
could we covered there. I mean, for me, the biggest
the biggest takeaway from this part is, uh, you know,
(12:41):
he says he can't tell about Biden one way or
the other. I think it's gonna be Biden. I thought
that all along, but he admits that that's crazy. To Clay.
He says he's gonna do major deportations. If he sticks
to that, that's gonna be a heck of a time
in America, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And we've had Stephen Miller on this program a lot,
who would be probably charged with implementing that. He said,
still he doesn't think that Biden's gonna be the nominee.
He said, jotted down the quote. I think at some
point he goes out and then said, obviously what I
think is true, it's dangerous for our country that Biden
(13:18):
is in right now.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
We'll allow you guys to react.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Full interview will be posted at Clayanbuck dot com also
on the podcast. If you want to hear that entire
conversation with Trump, we encourage you to go check it
out Clayanbuck dot com. Also go subscribe to the Clay
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Speaker 5 (14:43):
Twenty four on you podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things Election episodes Drum Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. Great conversation there with
forty five and we hope soon to be number forty seven.
Donald Trump, who is in remarkable spirit, still has his
sense of humor and certainly is focused in on his
purpose going forward, despite the madness of this trial you've
(15:16):
got right now. It's interesting CNN, I think is trying
so hard to make this and I suppose the CNN
audience represents the ten percent of America who thinks that
a business records case that is a misdemeanor that isn't
even a misdemeanor because they can't even prove any intent
(15:37):
and it has nothing to do with anything anyway. I
go through all that another day. CNN audience is the
only audience in America maybe New York Times subscribers who
believe it. This is an important case, I should say,
the crimes allegend the case. It's important because it's Trump,
but what they're talking about is unimportant, right, And Michael
Cohen is now subject to cross examination. You know, they're
(16:04):
just they're going to tell us that they went after
Cohen and they went after his credibility. The guy has
no credibility. I mean, how can you be a guy
who's turning on your former client and is a known
liar and a known perjurer and already served prison time
and now you're the star witness.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think he was upset that Trump didn't take him
to DC, and that's where all of this comes from.
And the other thing I would say about it is
he's the prosecution's final witness, so there's going to be
a pretty aggressive I would imagine cross examination, which will
probably take the rest of this week would be my guest,
because they don't have Cork tomorrow. I would think that
(16:44):
Cohen will probably be on the stand Thursday Friday. I
don't know how many witnesses the Trump team will call,
but this could be to the jury before the end
of May. And I don't think that's crazy at all.
And the point that I think would then factor in
is they've made this entire lawfare such a central component
(17:07):
of the entire Biden campaign, and we may be done
with it in some way by Memorial Day, and then
Trump would be free to be back on the campaign
trail June, July, August, September, October. I know you think
they're going to try to get him back in the
court room associated with the Chutkin.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Case in DC. You're gonna try, for sure. I don't
know if they can. The Supreme Court is going to
be the determining factor in that. But I mean, I
think you agree that they want to do that, Oh,
certainly they do.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I just don't think the timing is gonna work out,
because I think the Supreme Court will see will hold
this decision until late June early July, the very end
of their release of opinions and then they'll toss it back.
They'll have to spend a couple of months to figure
out maybe Jacksmith will issue a new indictment.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I don't know who's spending months. I think they're gonna
do it. And I remember, that's normal process. This is
what I've been argued all along. Normal process doesn't apply here.
But again, maybe the Supreme Court still believes a normal process.
And you know, there's a documentary I watched last week.
It's narrated by a friend of mine. It's worthy of
you spending your time to watch it. It's called America's
(18:12):
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(18:33):
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So this is a guy with a great track record.
What about the future. This documentary tells you he thinks
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(18:55):
Election Documentary dot com, paid for by Porter and Company.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Welcome back in You heard from President Trump our one
and hour three of this show. We taped with him
yesterday evening because he is presently in the courtroom where
the cross examination of Michael Cohen has begun, and it
is getting nasty early. A couple of things that I
want to hit here. Cohen has continued to speak out.
(19:21):
He hasn't had a gag order, which has been I
think a failure of this case in general. Aisha Hasney
at Fox News in the courtroom says. Cohen's asked if
on April twenty third, he referred to Trump as a
quote dictator, douchebag, and if he recalls saying that Trump
quote belongs in a cage like an effing animal. Cohen
(19:47):
says the quotes sound correct. Also more crazy quotes from
Michael Cohen as part of the cross examination that is
currently underway. He is asked if the DA's office has
repeatedly told him not to say anything. He says yes,
which means he's violating their request. Todd blanche is the
(20:10):
attorney for Trump, says, do you remember going on TV
talking about this investigation and all of these other things.
This is a mess, And you asked the question as
we were during the commercial break.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
This could go very soon to a jury.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Last witness they are saying for the prosecution is Michael Cohen.
There is the expectation I imagine that the defense may
I don't think they're gonna put Trump on the stand.
They could theoretically put Trump on the stand. I do
not think they will do it, and that would take days.
That might take weeks if they put him on the stand.
If they don't do it, this case could be to
(20:51):
the jury in the next eight to ten days. Buck
The thing that I have said from the get go
is I don't think there's any way you get an acquittal,
because that would require everybody agree. I don't think there
are twelve jurors in New York City anywhere that would
agree Trump hasn't committed a crime. I do think the
longer this has gone on, the more likely I believe
(21:11):
there may be one or two people on this jury
who would simply refuse to convict, which would be a
hung jury. I also think ultimately this is going to
get tossed out as a mistrial over the testimony of
Stormy Daniels and the way that it was way more
prejudicial than it was adding to probative value, which is
a standard that they apply.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And so I think down the line it's going to
get tossed may take a couple of years. But going now,
what do you think. I think they're going to get
a conviction.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Which last week or ten days ago, you were somewhat optimistic,
you thought things might be going Trump's way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Now you if you're gonna art now, but hold on
a second. I think it's going Trump's way even more.
But I just think that the pressure on those jury
errors to give the desired verdict. They know they will
be doxed and they will be harassed by the New
York Times and these other places after the trial. Yeah,
(22:10):
I think we all know this, like they're they're going
to be if they don't have a guilty verdict. Everybody
will know everyone who was on that jury and everything else,
and I think that they're they're aware of that. I
think that there's a real concern and if you're asking
me to put money out. Look, I also psychologically, I'll
just admit this. I'll prepare for the worst and try to,
(22:32):
you know, and try to hope for the best. I
just feel like this whole scam, this whole sham, that
it's even gotten to this point is indicative of dark
forces at work. But I think even if they get
a guilty verdict, it's not really going to you know,
it's not going to change anything about the politics. I
think that that's where the Democrats are really losing politically.
(22:54):
But I think they're probably if you ask me, they're
probably going to get a guilty verdict. The only other
option play right is hung jury, which means one person
is willing to risk their job, their livelihood, their reputation
and all the rest of it, and be I mean,
can we agree on this. If one person is a holdout,
that person is going to be harassed and hounded for
(23:15):
years to come by the insane forces of the left right.
I mean, is that fair? You think that's not fair
to say?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Oh, it's a great question, because a part of me
would say, if there's one patriot, because that's what I
would call him or her who refused to convict Trump
on the grounds that the case was not proven, which
I don't think is a crazy legally permissible perspective to have.
I think it would require a couple of things. One
either you're independently wealthy that you do not are concerned
(23:45):
about your financial situation, or you think, hey, I'll be
the rights hero. I'm going to vote not to convict,
I'll publicly acknowledge it, and maybe I'll move to Florida.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I was going to say that person's they gonna move
to Florida, Texas or Tennessee and realize that life in
Manhattan would probably be a whole lot more stressful for
them than had previously been. But but honestly, what really
should happen here is this is for the This is
for the judge to see for what it is and
(24:19):
to throw out. I mean, this should have already been
This whole thing should have just been thrown out by
the judge. And that's so the fact that that's a
had trial clearly right. That so the fact that that
hasn't happened, I think the jury is going to be
instructed at the end of this whole thing. Uh, there,
you know that did this or did this not happen,
and do you based on the absurd reading of the
(24:42):
statute that Bragg has, you know, did a crime occur
here that beyond the reasonable doubt? I mean, the thing
about financial crimes, paperwork crimes in general, it's usually uh,
we got you right. Yeah. I mean, for example, with
Hunter Biden, there's no question that he didn't pay income
taxes and that he did so willingly and knowingly, and
(25:03):
he broke federal law. There's no question about that. There's
just the lack of a stomach in the Department of
Justice to bring charges against a Biden son or a
Biden child. And in the case of what we see
here with Donald Trump, there's no question that the money
was paid. But then it goes to can you prove
(25:25):
what the motive is? But it's so confusing about what
the real storyline is that I think a jury will
probably just fall back on, well, we know we paid
the money and it was and as a porn star
and it's kind of gross, So I guess we'll just
say guilty. Do you know what I'm saying. I think
that the true legal intricacies here will be lost on
a jury that is already anti Trump. That's my unfortunate
(25:49):
but I think honest analysis at this point interesting component.
There two things.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
One polymarket, which I love, basically allows better to occur
on anything. They say that there is a seventy six
percent chance that he's found guilty, So that would mean
roughly one in four from a gambling perspective, which is
far better than it was when this trial started, that
he's not found guilty. Now, not found guilty doesn't mean
(26:17):
he's innocent, doesn't mean that he's acquitted. It could mean
that there is somebody out there that is willing to
stand up. Second part here, Buck, you just mentioned the
complicated nature of this case. There's two lawyers on the
twelve person jury. That's kind of unheard of. You usually
would never get lawyers on this case. Why do I
(26:39):
think that could be significant in the jury pool? If
you were on this jury, it would be somewhat natural
for the people that actually have legal training to be leaders.
Maybe four persons, maybe you're involved in the discussions in
a more substantive way with their legal background. How does
that cut? Could you have somebody with a conservative bent,
(27:02):
even though it's a New York City law firm, and
maybe could you have someone who's a lawyer, and they
think to themselves, I'm totally of the belief that this
has not been proven legally. You remember, usually a jury
is there to determine issues of fact. Judges determine issues
of the law. But if you have lawyers on the jury,
(27:25):
that can kind of get meshed together because the warriors
are more likely to understand the legality. And what I've
been talking about since this happened, Buck, is this is
a misdemeanor crime.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Being elevated to a felony.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
The only reason it's a felony is because they found
some mysterious second crime.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
As a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
As a lawyer, I look at this and I say
that mysterious second crime strikes me in a way that
it might not a lay person, and so how would
that play it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's also it's also clearly unethical to elevate your charge
in what is effectively a state court level proceeding. Right.
I know it's the city of New York, but it
falls under New York state jurisdiction. It's wrong to hide
the exacerbating charge in a not proven federal allegation. So
(28:20):
it would be like saying that if you had two
trials going on, you know, one for murder and one
for robbery, right, and you know one is federal and
one estate, and you're on trial for the robbery, and
they say, well, you know it's actually now this is
a capital offense, a death penalty case, because you know
this guy also killed somebody. Right, Well, hold on a second,
he hasn't been convicted of killing anybody. How can you
(28:42):
elevate his robbery charge when the other charge hasn't even
been brought, never mind proven in a court of law.
It is an end run on due process that we
are seeing, and it has all been engineered in the
proven federal allegation. So it would be like saying that
if you had two trials going on, you know, one
(29:03):
for murder and one for robbery, right, and you know
one is federal and one estate, and you're on trial
for the robbery, and they say, well, you know it's
actually now this is a capital offense, a death penalty case,
because you know this guy also killed somebody, right, Yeah, well,
hold on a second, he hasn't been convicted of killing anybody.
How can you elevate his robbery charge when the other
(29:25):
charge hasn't even been brought, never mind proven in a
court of law. It is an end run on due
process that we are seeing, and it has all been
engineered in the worst possible bad faith application by Alvin
Bragg's District attorney office.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It also makes the defense's job, I would argue, legally impossible,
because you have to know exactly what the charges are
that you're fighting back against in order to provide an
adequate defense to your defendant per that you're representing. And
so if you're telling me, and I think this is
where it currently stands that there are three potential violations
(30:08):
of the law that have occurred from the moment you
do this indictment as the secondary crime, how do I
attack that directly with the jury. I just think this
is beyond the shadow of a doubt. I would bet
massive amounts of money that this case is eventually going
to be tossed.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, but that doesn't matter, right, You get that, that
doesn't change. It doesn't matter for the purposes of the election.
It doesn't matter for the purposes of Trump's He's not
going to go to prison. They're not going to do that.
So it really just turns into like a change in
the Wikipedia entry for Trump when the when the case
is eventually overturned, I mean, it'd be nice, but if
he's found guilty and then two years from now the
appeals court says, yeah, that was a crap case. We'll
(30:47):
already have had the election. You know what I'm saying.
So I know what you're saying. I'm just pointing out
it's all about the timing and how this affects perception
right now. So there's tremendous injustice in even having this
while in the election year, the way that they're doing so.
And it's also why, you know, it's very rare to
be able to even challenge your right to be tried.
(31:09):
That's why the presidential immunity component of the federal case
is so interesting, because that is one of the rare
exceptions because to be able to even get dragged into
court if you have presidential immunity, the process is the punishment,
right and the process here in New York is also
the punishment. I think Clay more so than they even think.
If they get a guilty verdict, that will be I
(31:31):
will you know, I don't know. I was gonna say,
I'll eat my hat, but I don't wear hats. But
like there's just they're not gonna lock Trump up for
this case. I just don't I don't see it. I
think they realize if we think this is backfire, and
that would really backfire. I think that is likely true.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
However, I think that they could make irrational decisions because
I believe they're starting to be a panic set in.
I really think they planned on keeping Trump off the
rail for much of the summer and fall leading into
the election. Atlanta's not panning out. South Florida is not
panning out. D C is not panning out. And if
(32:11):
that's true, a part of me wonders whether, as a result,
the panic is going to lead to overreach and they're
going to do something rash as it pertains to his
status in the UK.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, here's the other part of this. If they I know,
we gotta go, we gotta come back and take some calls.
We're having too much fun on the show today, Clay.
If they get a not guilty verdict or even a mistrial,
they know this whole thing is collapsing in real time.
That's that's not guilty verdict ends the ends all that stuff. Yeah,
and it ends the election. I mean, I think Trump
(32:43):
that would be such a huge success. I think a
mistrial is an incredible.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Failure by all of the law fair, which is why
I hope fingers crossed that it could happen. Govc's online
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Speaker 1 (34:22):
For those who serve.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Stay on top of election, use with twenty four from
Clay and Buck, a weekly podcast you can find on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck, and we're
closing up shop for the day. Still have Michael Cohen
getting cross examined right now. I'm sure it is not
a not a fun thing to be a known perser, liar, etc.
Michael Cohen, disbarred, disgraced attorney, and he's in the midst
(34:58):
of it right now. The Trump atturn getting to take
some shots at him. We'll bring you more of that tomorrow,
and of course everything else that's going on in the
world also in our mind. You please, if you didn't
listen to the whole Trump interview. We just did it.
We just aired it today on the show, but we'd
aired it in two parts. The whole thing up at
clayanbuck dot com. Also, you can go listen to it
(35:20):
on the iHeart app. In the Clay and Buck podcast feed,
which we certainly hope you were all subscribed to, Tutor
Diiction show in there, Carol Marcoit, Sean Parnell, Lisa Booth,
a lot of great content in the Clay and Buck feed.
Diane in Long Beach, California, a former court reporter, got
some thoughts on Trump things. What's going on, Diane, Yes, what.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Buck was saying about the juror being docked by the
New York Times, My judgement start every trial in Compton
because the jurors were afraid, you know, that someone was
going to come after them. My judge would say, I
have never in all my years heard of a juror.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
Being in any kind of trouble afterwards, because they hide
their names, and the only people that are given a
list of the names is the clerk, the judge, and
each lawyer. The lawyer gives their back after the trials,
and then the court reporter keeps oneing.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Right, Diane, let me just ask let me just let
me just ask you a question. First of all, a
lot of jurors do interviews of their own volition afterwards
if they're in high profile cases. But let me just
ask you this. I understand your experience. I understand all
that if one of the twelve jurors refused to convict
Donald Trump and there was a mistrial, you really believe
(36:36):
that that jurors name and information would never get out publicly.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
I've thought about this, and I thought about it if
I would be strong enough.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
But I would assume if it was me, I wouldn't
want my name out there, and I would I don't
know I would.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
I don't think the person would maybe voluntarily give it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
No, But do you think it would happen? I mean, Diane, here,
here's I worked at the CIA for years. People were
threatened with federal prison if stuff got out, and you
know what, really secret stuff still gets out.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I appreciate the call, and I understand and I agree
with what she's saying that it's in principle, by the way, Diane,
we appreciate the call is a good call, but in
this scenario, one person refuses to convict Trump. Everybody is
going to know who I would.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I would give someone ten to one betting odds that
name would be out and known within forty eight hours
one to ten. Damn it.
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
In hour number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We
appreciate all of you, but hanging out with us for
the first couple of hours. If that was you, and
we hope any of you it was the case. You
heard Donald Trump with us in the first hour. Now
you will hear the second part of our interview with
Donald Trump. He's in court right now during our show,
(00:23):
but he wanted to make sure that you all heard
from him, so we talked to him yesterday evening.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
This is what it sounded like.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I won't make you say it, but I think you
know Biden is behind this, not Biden himself, because he's
not smart enough for mentally competent enough to be able
to organize all of this anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Which leads me into this.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, he's got guys having to help him walk
to the helicopter, as you well know, across the lawn there.
He can't read off the teleprompter. You see all the
screw ups on a regular basis. Do you really think
he's going to be running against you? Do you think
he'll they'll let him debate you, or do you think
they're gonna pull a bait and switch at the last minute.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I mean, I personally don't think so. But I've been
saying that for a while. I personally don't think so.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
But you know, you don't think he's gonna run.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
You don't think he's gonna run. Not that they're not
going to pull a bait and switch, but you don't
think he's able.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I think at some point he goes out. I think, so,
what do I know? You know, I mean, I can
only say that here he is, and he was never
the sharpest bulb in the room ever, and now he's
It's so dangerous for our country. You know, we're dealing
with Putin, We're dealing with President Shiv, China, Kim Jonglin.
We're dealing with these people that are one hundred percent
(01:34):
there at the top of their game and they can't
believe it. And this, you know, could lead to Third
World War. This is we still have a little bit
more than five months to go. And actually, if you
really look, I guess September. Toward the end of September,
Pennsylvania starts, and so we're really talking about a lot
less than that, because we really have to think in
terms of that when they start, you know, in the
(01:54):
old days, would have a one day election, they would
have paper ballots and would have a lot of good things.
Now we have elections that start forty five days earlier
than they're opposed to, and they keep going, they keep
going until they get enough ballots. This is their form
of cheating. And I have a voice, so I'm able
to talk about it. And you know, it's been I mean,
it's never pleasant doing this, but we have to. These
(02:16):
are fascists. But you know, if they have a good
congressman and they send him a subpoena, he might as
well resign because he doesn't have a chance of explaining
to people to vote for him anymore. So I have
such respect for the American public because they fed them
all this nonsense. It's just garbage. You take a look
at these what they've done. Well, look at this case.
(02:36):
Look at the way it's playing out again, not one
legal experts does they even have a case. There's not
even a crime. And it's a very sad day in America,
and it's a very sad day for New York. But
you take a look at Atlanta with Fani and her
lover Wade, and you know that's a whole scam. And
Jack Smith's two cases as a whole scam, the whole
(02:58):
thing he was done because they want to hit Biden's
opponent is political opponent, to see if they can get
him over the line. I don't think it's going to work.
I tell you, because you saw the crowd in New Jersey.
It may have been the largest crowd ever for a
not just in New Jersey. I mean it was well
over one hundred thousand people. We expected forty five thousand
we had. I mean, you guys saw the crowd. Oh yeah,
(03:19):
I don't think you've ever seen a crowd like that
at a political event. Yeah, great honor.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
In terms of fixing the country, saving the country, sir,
you mentioned some of the foreign challenges. I think, and
you know this as well better than anybody. If you're
looking at challenges for America right now, the wide open
Biden border is absolutely top of the list. People are outraged.
It's going to be eight million at least. I mean,
that's going to be the official number by the time
votes are being cast. Eight million illegals under Biden. Who
(03:46):
knows how many actually in the country. You've talked about
finishing the wall, and you've talked about deportations. What can
you tell us about the first ninety days of a
Trump forty seven presidency on those two issues.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, first of all, it's it's not eight million, it's
fifteen million are already in the country, in my opinion,
and a lot of them come from prisons and jails.
They come from mental institutions, and I go a step
beyond that, from insane asylums. You got a lot of
terrorists coming into the country. Now we're gonna have to
deport We're gonna have a very large scale deportation operation,
(04:20):
and nobody wants to do that. We have no choice.
It's not sustainable by any country. There's no country that
a thing like this is sustainable by. You can't you
can't have it. I mean, I look at I'm in
New York right now, and you see what's going on
with people. They're taking up You don't have the use
of parks, you don't have the use of schools and hospitals.
(04:42):
It's the whole quality of life in our country is
changing because of this, and nobody can say it's good.
Politically now, of course, what they're trying to do is
register people to vote, because that's another form of cheating. Also,
there are two big forms are that they are new
forms that they're adding into their arsenal because they're bad
at every everything. Policy is no good. Look at Afghanistan.
(05:02):
That disaster the most embarrassing day in the history of
the country. Their policy is no good. They want high
te you know, if they won, taxes are going to
go up by four times, four times for middle class
but four times. And you know, they're no good at policy.
The only thing they're really good at is cheating. And
they have two new methods, and one is the weaponization,
(05:23):
which is what I'm putting up with and others too,
but I'm you know, I'm definitely I'm the key, There's
no question about it. And then the other is having
to do having to register voters because they're taking these
people who can't speak English, who don't even know what
this country is, and they're registering them and trying to
get them out to vote. And I only implore the
(05:46):
Republicans to be tough because they don't play as tough
a game. Unfortunately, there's so much better on policy, so
much better on so many but they're not better when
it comes to this stuff. Fellaws.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's a terrible thing, terrible You no New York City,
Well you also know the Ivy League. Well, because you're
a graduate, you got called an anti Semite, which is
unbelievable considering your daughter is Jewish and you got Jewish grandchildren.
Joe Biden said he ran for president because of Charlottesville,
bought into the very fine people hoax. When you see
(06:20):
his failure to stand up for Jewish people and for
Israel's right to defend itself, how sick does it make
you to your stomach? And also how weak is the
media to not remotely be holding him to the same
standard they do for all the country as they did
for you.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
For Charlottesville by itself.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's true. So he is the worst president we've ever
had in the history of our country. But he's the
worst president that Israel has ever had in the United States.
It's not even a contest. He's a horror show. And
I'm the best president that Israel's ever had. I mean
what I've done for Israel between the Capitol and and
the Iran nuclear deal by the way, you know, let's
not forget a about that. That could have been the
(07:01):
best of all. But they didn't do anything with it.
You know, they could, they could have had a deal
so fast with Iran. I would have had a deal.
You know, Iran was broke when I was president. They
wanted to make a deal. Now Iran is a rich
country again. Iran has two hundred and fifty billion dollars
worth of cash because of the oil and because we
give them six billion dollars every time there's a hostage
(07:21):
trade to end up with six million dollars. We gave
them ten billion dollars for electricity to Iraq.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But they are rich.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They have two hundred and fifty billion dollars in cash
right now. It's a tougher negotiation by a factor of fifty.
But I am the best president ever ever for Israel
by far. And he's the worst president ever. And who
would think it? Who would think it?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Not surprising to us given Biden's history of failure on
the foreign policy from mister president. But right in terms
of you know, they've walked away from the Biden economy,
you're not hearing about that, You know, Biden's economy anymore
in Glatian still stubborn, people paying high prices. Why did
this happen under this president? And what are you going
(08:07):
to do to change things around when you win.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So when he came in, he stopped the oil. And
when he stopped you and now he's let it go
back to where I was, because otherwise he would have
you'd have oil it you'd be paying so much for
gasoline that people wouldn't even believe it. But already it's
getting close to four dollars, and in California it's over
seven dollars. It's creeping up very rapidly. But he stopped
the oil, and that caused the inflation very simply. And
(08:31):
we're going to bring energy way down. Energy costs are
going to be way down, and places like New England
where you have the highest energy courses, New York, where
you have the highest energy costs in the whole country,
by far, I'll be able to cut their energy bills
in half and quickly. These people, that's what caused it,
what they did with his stupid energy policies. He also
(08:53):
made other countries rich. He made Russia so rich that
they said, gee, whiz, I'm going to go you know,
a combination of that and Afghanistan where Putin said, wow,
I'm going to go and attack Ukraine. Now you know,
he had oil, left almost one hundred dollars a barrel.
When that happens, Putin makes his money from oil. They
became rich, and they attacked, and that's what happened. It's
(09:13):
a sad thing, so sad to see what's happened to
our country in a period of three and a half years.
But we're going to make it. We'll make it greater
than ever before. You watch the border. We had the
strongest border ever. I built five hundred and seventy one
miles of wall. We're going to add another two hundred
and three weeks. It was all made, all fabricated. They
sold it for five cents on the dollar. The wall
(09:35):
was all fabricated. I built much more wall than I
said I was going to build, but we did five
hundred and seventy one miles. We had the strongest border
in history. We had remained in Mexico. You couldn't come
in yet to say in Mexico. All of these things
out the window when this character came in, and look,
he has no clue what he's doing. But he's surrounded
(09:56):
by very smart fascists, and the only thing they know
how to do is stay in power. That's about the
only thing they're good at. But we're going to beat
him big in five months.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Last question for you, we know you're busy keep up
the fight at the trial because you know, I think
you're adding more supporters every single day. I think it's
backfired on them. This is a light question for you.
I know you're a huge sports fan. I don't know
if you've got a chance to see the Tom Brady
roast that it aired on Netflix or any of the segments.
Robert Kraft, your old friend, told Vladimir Putin that he
(10:29):
wanted his NFL Super Bowl ring back. Putin, he says,
stole it. Have you ever been roasted like that? Are
you surprised that Tom Brady, who I know you're a
big fan of, took it And would you ever want
to do something like that?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well? I was roasted on Comedy Central and before I
was long before I was president, actually, and it was
not a pleasant evening.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I will tell you. They roasted me.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
They roasted the hell out of me. But it's fun. Look,
it was a good cause, money went to charity, a
lot of good things, and but no, I was roasted.
If you have a look at that one, you'll see
what a roast is all about.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
But when Clay got roasted by the view recently, mister president,
I did know it can.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Happens on a daily basis.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I was on Whoopies movie. She made a movie, a
basketball movie. So could you do the movie for me?
Could you do? Joy Behar would see what she would
do for me, She'd do anything. All of a sudden,
I run for politics and they pretend like, gee, we
hate check out Whoopies movie. I said, take me out
of your movie. I did a big cameo in Whoopies movie.
(11:33):
You know it's you are still the.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Best part of Home Alone too. By the way, So
for those of.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Us that remember that's a good one. That was a
very good one.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Mister president. We know you got to go and you know,
defeat all the nonsense and win a huge election and
make history again. Play and buck here with you. Thank
you so much, really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
As always, well, I appreciate you guys. You do a
fantastic job. And we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There you go, Clay. That was the second part of
our exclusive interview with President Trump. We covered a lot
of ground, which is one of the great things about
sitting down with the president is you can go on,
you can go anywhere in terms of the conversation. If
there's no there's no, oh the handlers haven't prepped him
(12:17):
for that one, or oh, without a prompter, he doesn't
know what to say. You can talk to the guy
about your favorite movie from the eighties. You can talk
to him about rock bands, or you can talk to
him about staring down Kim jong un, actually staring down
Kim Jong un. So yeah, there's a lot that you
could we covered there. I mean, for me, the biggest
the biggest takeaway from this part is, uh, you know,
(12:41):
he says he can't tell about Biden one way or
the other. I think it's gonna be Biden. I thought
that all along, but he admits that that's crazy. To Clay.
He says he's gonna do major deportations. If he sticks
to that, that's gonna be a heck of a time
in America, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And we've had Stephen Miller on this program a lot,
who would be probably charged with implementing that. He said,
still he doesn't think that Biden's gonna be the nominee.
He said, jotted down the quote. I think at some
point he goes out and then said, obviously what I
think is true, it's dangerous for our country that Biden
(13:18):
is in right now.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
We'll allow you guys to react.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Full interview will be posted at Clayanbuck dot com also
on the podcast. If you want to hear that entire
conversation with Trump, we encourage you to go check it
out Clayanbuck dot com. Also go subscribe to the Clay
and Buck podcast. Since nine to eleven, Tunnel, the Towers
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(13:41):
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Speaker 5 (14:43):
Twenty four on you podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things Election episodes Drum Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. Great conversation there with
forty five and we hope soon to be number forty seven.
Donald Trump, who is in remarkable spirit, still has his
sense of humor and certainly is focused in on his
purpose going forward, despite the madness of this trial you've
(15:16):
got right now. It's interesting CNN, I think is trying
so hard to make this and I suppose the CNN
audience represents the ten percent of America who thinks that
a business records case that is a misdemeanor that isn't
even a misdemeanor because they can't even prove any intent
(15:37):
and it has nothing to do with anything anyway. I
go through all that another day. CNN audience is the
only audience in America maybe New York Times subscribers who
believe it. This is an important case, I should say,
the crimes allegend the case. It's important because it's Trump,
but what they're talking about is unimportant, right, And Michael
Cohen is now subject to cross examination. You know, they're
(16:04):
just they're going to tell us that they went after
Cohen and they went after his credibility. The guy has
no credibility. I mean, how can you be a guy
who's turning on your former client and is a known
liar and a known perjurer and already served prison time
and now you're the star witness.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think he was upset that Trump didn't take him
to DC, and that's where all of this comes from.
And the other thing I would say about it is
he's the prosecution's final witness, so there's going to be
a pretty aggressive I would imagine cross examination, which will
probably take the rest of this week would be my guest,
because they don't have Cork tomorrow. I would think that
(16:44):
Cohen will probably be on the stand Thursday Friday. I
don't know how many witnesses the Trump team will call,
but this could be to the jury before the end
of May. And I don't think that's crazy at all.
And the point that I think would then factor in
is they've made this entire lawfare such a central component
(17:07):
of the entire Biden campaign, and we may be done
with it in some way by Memorial Day, and then
Trump would be free to be back on the campaign
trail June, July, August, September, October. I know you think
they're going to try to get him back in the
court room associated with the Chutkin.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Case in DC. You're gonna try, for sure. I don't
know if they can. The Supreme Court is going to
be the determining factor in that. But I mean, I
think you agree that they want to do that, Oh,
certainly they do.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I just don't think the timing is gonna work out,
because I think the Supreme Court will see will hold
this decision until late June early July, the very end
of their release of opinions and then they'll toss it back.
They'll have to spend a couple of months to figure
out maybe Jacksmith will issue a new indictment.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I don't know who's spending months. I think they're gonna
do it. And I remember, that's normal process. This is
what I've been argued all along. Normal process doesn't apply here.
But again, maybe the Supreme Court still believes a normal process.
And you know, there's a documentary I watched last week.
It's narrated by a friend of mine. It's worthy of
you spending your time to watch it. It's called America's
(18:12):
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What about the future. This documentary tells you he thinks
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(18:55):
Election Documentary dot com, paid for by Porter and Company.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Welcome back in You heard from President Trump our one
and hour three of this show. We taped with him
yesterday evening because he is presently in the courtroom where
the cross examination of Michael Cohen has begun, and it
is getting nasty early. A couple of things that I
want to hit here. Cohen has continued to speak out.
(19:21):
He hasn't had a gag order, which has been I
think a failure of this case in general. Aisha Hasney
at Fox News in the courtroom says. Cohen's asked if
on April twenty third, he referred to Trump as a
quote dictator, douchebag, and if he recalls saying that Trump
quote belongs in a cage like an effing animal. Cohen
(19:47):
says the quotes sound correct. Also more crazy quotes from
Michael Cohen as part of the cross examination that is
currently underway. He is asked if the DA's office has
repeatedly told him not to say anything. He says yes,
which means he's violating their request. Todd blanche is the
(20:10):
attorney for Trump, says, do you remember going on TV
talking about this investigation and all of these other things.
This is a mess, And you asked the question as
we were during the commercial break.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
This could go very soon to a jury.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Last witness they are saying for the prosecution is Michael Cohen.
There is the expectation I imagine that the defense may
I don't think they're gonna put Trump on the stand.
They could theoretically put Trump on the stand. I do
not think they will do it, and that would take days.
That might take weeks if they put him on the stand.
If they don't do it, this case could be to
(20:51):
the jury in the next eight to ten days. Buck
The thing that I have said from the get go
is I don't think there's any way you get an acquittal,
because that would require everybody agree. I don't think there
are twelve jurors in New York City anywhere that would
agree Trump hasn't committed a crime. I do think the
longer this has gone on, the more likely I believe
(21:11):
there may be one or two people on this jury
who would simply refuse to convict, which would be a
hung jury. I also think ultimately this is going to
get tossed out as a mistrial over the testimony of
Stormy Daniels and the way that it was way more
prejudicial than it was adding to probative value, which is
a standard that they apply.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And so I think down the line it's going to
get tossed may take a couple of years. But going now,
what do you think. I think they're going to get
a conviction.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Which last week or ten days ago, you were somewhat optimistic,
you thought things might be going Trump's way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Now you if you're gonna art now, but hold on
a second. I think it's going Trump's way even more.
But I just think that the pressure on those jury
errors to give the desired verdict. They know they will
be doxed and they will be harassed by the New
York Times and these other places after the trial. Yeah,
(22:10):
I think we all know this, like they're they're going
to be if they don't have a guilty verdict. Everybody
will know everyone who was on that jury and everything else,
and I think that they're they're aware of that. I
think that there's a real concern and if you're asking
me to put money out. Look, I also psychologically, I'll
just admit this. I'll prepare for the worst and try to,
(22:32):
you know, and try to hope for the best. I
just feel like this whole scam, this whole sham, that
it's even gotten to this point is indicative of dark
forces at work. But I think even if they get
a guilty verdict, it's not really going to you know,
it's not going to change anything about the politics. I
think that that's where the Democrats are really losing politically.
(22:54):
But I think they're probably if you ask me, they're
probably going to get a guilty verdict. The only other
option play right is hung jury, which means one person
is willing to risk their job, their livelihood, their reputation
and all the rest of it, and be I mean,
can we agree on this. If one person is a holdout,
that person is going to be harassed and hounded for
(23:15):
years to come by the insane forces of the left right.
I mean, is that fair? You think that's not fair
to say?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Oh, it's a great question, because a part of me
would say, if there's one patriot, because that's what I
would call him or her who refused to convict Trump
on the grounds that the case was not proven, which
I don't think is a crazy legally permissible perspective to have.
I think it would require a couple of things. One
either you're independently wealthy that you do not are concerned
(23:45):
about your financial situation, or you think, hey, I'll be
the rights hero. I'm going to vote not to convict,
I'll publicly acknowledge it, and maybe I'll move to Florida.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I was going to say that person's they gonna move
to Florida, Texas or Tennessee and realize that life in
Manhattan would probably be a whole lot more stressful for
them than had previously been. But but honestly, what really
should happen here is this is for the This is
for the judge to see for what it is and
(24:19):
to throw out. I mean, this should have already been
This whole thing should have just been thrown out by
the judge. And that's so the fact that that's a
had trial clearly right. That so the fact that that
hasn't happened, I think the jury is going to be
instructed at the end of this whole thing. Uh, there,
you know that did this or did this not happen,
and do you based on the absurd reading of the
(24:42):
statute that Bragg has, you know, did a crime occur
here that beyond the reasonable doubt? I mean, the thing
about financial crimes, paperwork crimes in general, it's usually uh,
we got you right. Yeah. I mean, for example, with
Hunter Biden, there's no question that he didn't pay income
taxes and that he did so willingly and knowingly, and
(25:03):
he broke federal law. There's no question about that. There's
just the lack of a stomach in the Department of
Justice to bring charges against a Biden son or a
Biden child. And in the case of what we see
here with Donald Trump, there's no question that the money
was paid. But then it goes to can you prove
(25:25):
what the motive is? But it's so confusing about what
the real storyline is that I think a jury will
probably just fall back on, well, we know we paid
the money and it was and as a porn star
and it's kind of gross, So I guess we'll just
say guilty. Do you know what I'm saying. I think
that the true legal intricacies here will be lost on
a jury that is already anti Trump. That's my unfortunate
(25:49):
but I think honest analysis at this point interesting component.
There two things.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
One polymarket, which I love, basically allows better to occur
on anything. They say that there is a seventy six
percent chance that he's found guilty, So that would mean
roughly one in four from a gambling perspective, which is
far better than it was when this trial started, that
he's not found guilty. Now, not found guilty doesn't mean
(26:17):
he's innocent, doesn't mean that he's acquitted. It could mean
that there is somebody out there that is willing to
stand up. Second part here, Buck, you just mentioned the
complicated nature of this case. There's two lawyers on the
twelve person jury. That's kind of unheard of. You usually
would never get lawyers on this case. Why do I
(26:39):
think that could be significant in the jury pool? If
you were on this jury, it would be somewhat natural
for the people that actually have legal training to be leaders.
Maybe four persons, maybe you're involved in the discussions in
a more substantive way with their legal background. How does
that cut? Could you have somebody with a conservative bent,
(27:02):
even though it's a New York City law firm, and
maybe could you have someone who's a lawyer, and they
think to themselves, I'm totally of the belief that this
has not been proven legally. You remember, usually a jury
is there to determine issues of fact. Judges determine issues
of the law. But if you have lawyers on the jury,
(27:25):
that can kind of get meshed together because the warriors
are more likely to understand the legality. And what I've
been talking about since this happened, Buck, is this is
a misdemeanor crime.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Being elevated to a felony.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
The only reason it's a felony is because they found
some mysterious second crime.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
As a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
As a lawyer, I look at this and I say
that mysterious second crime strikes me in a way that
it might not a lay person, and so how would
that play it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's also it's also clearly unethical to elevate your charge
in what is effectively a state court level proceeding. Right.
I know it's the city of New York, but it
falls under New York state jurisdiction. It's wrong to hide
the exacerbating charge in a not proven federal allegation. So
(28:20):
it would be like saying that if you had two
trials going on, you know, one for murder and one
for robbery, right, and you know one is federal and
one estate, and you're on trial for the robbery, and
they say, well, you know it's actually now this is
a capital offense, a death penalty case, because you know
this guy also killed somebody. Right, Well, hold on a second,
he hasn't been convicted of killing anybody. How can you
(28:42):
elevate his robbery charge when the other charge hasn't even
been brought, never mind proven in a court of law.
It is an end run on due process that we
are seeing, and it has all been engineered in the
proven federal allegation. So it would be like saying that
if you had two trials going on, you know, one
(29:03):
for murder and one for robbery, right, and you know
one is federal and one estate, and you're on trial
for the robbery, and they say, well, you know it's
actually now this is a capital offense, a death penalty case,
because you know this guy also killed somebody, right, Yeah, well,
hold on a second, he hasn't been convicted of killing anybody.
How can you elevate his robbery charge when the other
(29:25):
charge hasn't even been brought, never mind proven in a
court of law. It is an end run on due
process that we are seeing, and it has all been
engineered in the worst possible bad faith application by Alvin
Bragg's District attorney office.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It also makes the defense's job, I would argue, legally impossible,
because you have to know exactly what the charges are
that you're fighting back against in order to provide an
adequate defense to your defendant per that you're representing. And
so if you're telling me, and I think this is
where it currently stands that there are three potential violations
(30:08):
of the law that have occurred from the moment you
do this indictment as the secondary crime, how do I
attack that directly with the jury. I just think this
is beyond the shadow of a doubt. I would bet
massive amounts of money that this case is eventually going
to be tossed.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, but that doesn't matter, right, You get that, that
doesn't change. It doesn't matter for the purposes of the election.
It doesn't matter for the purposes of Trump's He's not
going to go to prison. They're not going to do that.
So it really just turns into like a change in
the Wikipedia entry for Trump when the when the case
is eventually overturned, I mean, it'd be nice, but if
he's found guilty and then two years from now the
appeals court says, yeah, that was a crap case. We'll
(30:47):
already have had the election. You know what I'm saying.
So I know what you're saying. I'm just pointing out
it's all about the timing and how this affects perception
right now. So there's tremendous injustice in even having this
while in the election year, the way that they're doing so.
And it's also why, you know, it's very rare to
be able to even challenge your right to be tried.
(31:09):
That's why the presidential immunity component of the federal case
is so interesting, because that is one of the rare
exceptions because to be able to even get dragged into
court if you have presidential immunity, the process is the punishment,
right and the process here in New York is also
the punishment. I think Clay more so than they even think.
If they get a guilty verdict, that will be I
(31:31):
will you know, I don't know. I was gonna say,
I'll eat my hat, but I don't wear hats. But
like there's just they're not gonna lock Trump up for
this case. I just don't I don't see it. I
think they realize if we think this is backfire, and
that would really backfire. I think that is likely true.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
However, I think that they could make irrational decisions because
I believe they're starting to be a panic set in.
I really think they planned on keeping Trump off the
rail for much of the summer and fall leading into
the election. Atlanta's not panning out. South Florida is not
panning out. D C is not panning out. And if
(32:11):
that's true, a part of me wonders whether, as a result,
the panic is going to lead to overreach and they're
going to do something rash as it pertains to his
status in the UK.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, here's the other part of this. If they I know,
we gotta go, we gotta come back and take some calls.
We're having too much fun on the show today, Clay.
If they get a not guilty verdict or even a mistrial,
they know this whole thing is collapsing in real time.
That's that's not guilty verdict ends the ends all that stuff. Yeah,
and it ends the election. I mean, I think Trump
(32:43):
that would be such a huge success. I think a
mistrial is an incredible.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Failure by all of the law fair, which is why
I hope fingers crossed that it could happen. Govc's online
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Speaker 1 (34:22):
For those who serve.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Stay on top of election, use with twenty four from
Clay and Buck, a weekly podcast you can find on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck, and we're
closing up shop for the day. Still have Michael Cohen
getting cross examined right now. I'm sure it is not
a not a fun thing to be a known perser, liar, etc.
Michael Cohen, disbarred, disgraced attorney, and he's in the midst
(34:58):
of it right now. The Trump atturn getting to take
some shots at him. We'll bring you more of that tomorrow,
and of course everything else that's going on in the
world also in our mind. You please, if you didn't
listen to the whole Trump interview. We just did it.
We just aired it today on the show, but we'd
aired it in two parts. The whole thing up at
clayanbuck dot com. Also, you can go listen to it
(35:20):
on the iHeart app. In the Clay and Buck podcast feed,
which we certainly hope you were all subscribed to, Tutor
Diiction show in there, Carol Marcoit, Sean Parnell, Lisa Booth,
a lot of great content in the Clay and Buck feed.
Diane in Long Beach, California, a former court reporter, got
some thoughts on Trump things. What's going on, Diane, Yes, what.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Buck was saying about the juror being docked by the
New York Times, My judgement start every trial in Compton
because the jurors were afraid, you know, that someone was
going to come after them. My judge would say, I
have never in all my years heard of a juror.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
Being in any kind of trouble afterwards, because they hide
their names, and the only people that are given a
list of the names is the clerk, the judge, and
each lawyer. The lawyer gives their back after the trials,
and then the court reporter keeps oneing.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Right, Diane, let me just ask let me just let
me just ask you a question. First of all, a
lot of jurors do interviews of their own volition afterwards
if they're in high profile cases. But let me just
ask you this. I understand your experience. I understand all
that if one of the twelve jurors refused to convict
Donald Trump and there was a mistrial, you really believe
(36:36):
that that jurors name and information would never get out publicly.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
I've thought about this, and I thought about it if
I would be strong enough.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
But I would assume if it was me, I wouldn't
want my name out there, and I would I don't
know I would.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
I don't think the person would maybe voluntarily give it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
No, But do you think it would happen? I mean, Diane, here,
here's I worked at the CIA for years. People were
threatened with federal prison if stuff got out, and you
know what, really secret stuff still gets out.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I appreciate the call, and I understand and I agree
with what she's saying that it's in principle, by the way, Diane,
we appreciate the call is a good call, but in
this scenario, one person refuses to convict Trump. Everybody is
going to know who I would.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I would give someone ten to one betting odds that
name would be out and known within forty eight hours
one to ten. Damn it.
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