A chat with Rob from Digital Asset News

Mike is away this week, but never fear because we’re lucky enough to have a guest joining us who is one of the wisest heads in the crypto space. Rob Wolff is the man behind Digital Asset News, one of the best crypto-focused YouTube channels out there. Rob is a seasoned investor and businessman, but also the sort of person who never rests on his laurels or stops being curious. As such, what he has to say about the crypto space, about investing and heck, about most things, is always worth hearing.

 

So this week, Rob and I dialled in to talk about, well, a lot of things. We cover Rob’s fascinating career up to now and how he discovered crypto. We talk about his five rules for investing which everyone should know and how he’s learned from past mistakes to become wiser and more resilient. We also dive into the current state of the crypto market and where it could be heading. And that’s just for starters.

 

Rob is one of crypto’s good guys. He’s bullish on the future of the industry, but doesn’t deal in hype or hopium. His philosophical approach to crypto, to investing and to life in general is just what’s needed in these difficult, uncertain times. A gentleman, a scholar and a damn nice guy into the bargain.

 

Digital Asset News, Rob’s brilliant YouTube channel can be found at: https://www.youtube.com/c/DigitalAssetNewsDAN and you can follow him on Twitter at @NewsAsset. His website is an amazing source of FREE educational resources about crypto and can be found at https://danteachescrypto.com/ 

 

The book ‘This Time is Different’ that Rob mentions is also essential reading. https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691152646/this-time-is-different 

 

It was an absolute pleasure having Rob on the show and we hope he’ll come back and join us again soon.

 

We hope you enjoy the show.

 

Executive Producer for iHeartMedia: Noel Brown

Editor: Sam Moult

Theme music composed by: Noel Brown

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The coin Viewer, a podcast is a production of I
Hunt Radio. I think it was Charlie Munger and Warren
Buffett who said there's three ways to lose everything, ladies, liquor,
and leverage, and it makes a lot of sense. And
then lastly is take profits along the way. Sweet Jesus,
I mean, if you could just take a look and

(00:20):
just say to yourself, and we'll talk about this later,
as about people will always say you gotta diamond hands
everything and hold it forever, and you could, you could
hold everything. Maybe bitcoin becomes the new world reserve currency.
I'm not here to dispute that. I have no idea,
but maybe, just maybe that won't happen. And if those
things don't happen, maybe it's a good idea to take
profits along the way so when the bear market comes,

(00:42):
you have more powder on the sidelines to do the
things you really want to do. Buy crypto, buy real estate,
start a company, pay your bills for petez sakes, and
go from there. So those are the new rules. But
it all came from all the screw ups that I
did along the way. A guy, you were too kind,

(01:13):
Thanks for having me again. It's yeah, Rob, and I
have Rob and I have chatted on live streams before
and actually met in real life, which doesn't doesn't happen
all that often in the crypto space. But we we
met in real life when you when you very kindly
came and spoke at the Coin Bureau event in London,

(01:35):
which I think it's safe to say feels like a
lifetime ago. No, it was. It was the great time.
It was was end of April early May, somewhere around
there at twenty twenty one, and the market was just
ripping and everybody there was there was exuberance, everybody was happy.
And of course now here we are in October twenty
twenty two and people are miserable. But that's okay because

(01:57):
this is the time when millionaires are made. It's it's
time for all the tourists to leave and the real
people that want to stick around to make some real
wealth to just hang around because it's going to happen.
Absolutely absolutely, and yeah, this is This is one of
the main reasons I wanted to get you on Rob,
because I think your perspective on all of this, You've

(02:18):
got a very pragmatic outlook. You've got a no bs outlook.
It's all delivered with a big generous helping of text
and charm. So I thought, I thought, this is this
is all stuff that are our listeners need to hear.
So I thought, should we just should we just dive
on in and just kind of have a quick kind

(02:38):
of talk about the about the markets in general. Well,
in fact, no, look before we do that, Rob, can
you can you tell us a bit about yourself, how
you how you came to do what you do, your
your background, all that sort of stuff. Sure, and before
we start. I wish I wish it was later in
the day because like this kind of feels like two
guys talking in the pub about this, just talking shop.

(03:00):
I do love these ones. So my background is prior military.
I went in is there's a long time ago, because
I'm an old guy. I got grandkids now, and I
was what's called a ninety one bravo, which was back
in those days it was called a medic, so you
run around try to save people, real fun times, right,
And then I didn't like being in the field, so
they said, who wants to get out of the field.

(03:20):
I said, sure, I'll do that, and they I became
a ninety one whiskey m six, which is an LVM
or a nurse, and then I didn't really don't really
like that too much. Then I got out of the
military and I went into sales, medical device sales, and
I worked at a company called kCi, which is a
wound back company. People would get these these huge, massive
wounds or massive injuries or whatever else and we'd put

(03:43):
these essentially a medical grade sponge, close up the wound
and heal people. Was great. Then I got into management.
I went and worked for a couple of different home
health companies and just kind of trotted around the area
and health and healthcare. But then I realize one day,
I'm like, you know, if I keep trading my time
for money, I'm never gonna get ahead. It's just how

(04:05):
it goes. And I just started to dabble into a
little online education platform and I created this website helped
nursing students past their clinical exam, and that was the
first time I realized that I didn't have to trade
my time for money. People would come in there, they
could learn some things, and they could pay me a fee.
And then everything worked out. And then I got into

(04:25):
real estate with me and my wife, and that was
an even better advantage because with real estate, what's great
about that is that it's an appreciating asset. There's a
lot of things you can do with it. And this
is back in gosh, two thousand, ten eleven. Yeah, and
I don't know, I don't know if Airbnb was around,
but we did. We know, we did short term rentals,

(04:46):
we did long term rentals, and now we do a
lot more of the short term rentals. Well Airbnb with
houses here in Alpasso and Houston and Puerto Rico, condos
and apartments, and that was a pretty good one to
be into. So we did all that and then also
a nice little sports facility year for sand, volleyball, sand

(05:07):
soccer stuff. So a lot of different things that we do.
And Amazon business too, but that's that's pretty simple. But
a lot of these things are starting to run on autopilot.
And I remember in twenty seventeen, actually, no, let's take
it back in twenty twelve, the son came home and
he said, hey, I've got a great deal for you.
And the deal is there's this guy and he's selling

(05:30):
a hard drive with these things called bitcoins, and he's
gonna sell five hundred of those bitcoins for five hundred dollars,
and I said, Alan, what is a bitcoin? And you
know when you first explained what a bitcoin is? And
he's like, well, it's this thing and it's decentralized, and
I'm like that, I'm gonna stop it right now. Makes
no sense whatsoever. It's never gonna make it. It sounds
the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And

(05:51):
of course, as time goes on, I just, you know,
missed out on a massive opportunity. And but I will
say this, and we'll get into this later, is that
I didn't understand what bitcoin was. So if I would
have bought it for five hundred dollars, two things would
have happened. I would have lost that hard drive, because
this is back in twenty twelve. Maybe it would have
I would have figured it out in thirteen when the
big bull run happened. But plus I would probably have

(06:14):
sold it when it doubled, because I don't want I
didn't understand it back then, so I don't think I
really missed out on the big opportunity. Fast forward later
twenty seventeen, all of a sudden we hear more about
crypto and the glassts. That's when everything blew up. This
was I got in after you did, guy, because you
got in way before I did twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen
that area. But when I got in twenty seventeen, ye,
this is a great opportunity, just like all the other businesses.

(06:35):
And I thought I was a genius as everything went up,
and I wrote it all the way up, and I
wrote it all the way down. I bought bitcoin at
thirty five hundred, five thousand, ten thousand, seventeen thousand, five hundred,
and then when a crash in January and February twenty eighteen,
I was back down to where I was. And at
that point I said to myself, I got two ashes.
I could take a huge loss and get the hell

(06:56):
out of here, or I can figure out some principles.
Maybe you stick around for a bit, maybe dollar cost average,
Maybe figure out that time in the market's greater than
timing the market, maybe understanding what the projects actually were
and how they could change the world. And just kind
of moved from there. And then from that point on,
I just dollar cost average, and I kept talking about it.
My friends and the family were like, don't tell us,

(07:17):
we don't care. So I'll go, okay, you don't care,
I'll start a YouTube channel and just talk about it there.
Because all the other businesses are just running on on
oili pilots. I'm as will do something. And now here
we are up to today talking to the great guy
from coin Bureau. How the mighty have fallen? It's uh mean,
listening to that, it's I mean, it's such a it's

(07:38):
such a great story you've got. It's it's also it's
it says so much about your character. You know, you're
you're you sound like a really kind of pragmatic guy,
that sort of guy who's kind of not afraid to
take a step back assess the situation kind of I
guess dispassionately and and think, hey, you know, what's what's
wrong with this picture? How can I fix this? Where

(07:59):
do I go next? You know, you strike me as
someone who's kind of constantly curious. Is that is that
fair to say? It's it's it's well, there's a couple
of things. First of all, there's curiosity, and the other
thing that I've learned along the way, especially starting these
different projects, is that I know that I'm going to fail.
I failed way more than I've actually succeeded. So when

(08:22):
I do these things, I step into it going I
know I'm gonna screw up. I know this is going
to be hardship. But it just like in the military,
if I just show up at the right uniform, things
are going to work out. I'll get promoted. Everything work,
And that's pretty much how it kind of comes down to.
I look at the market, I go, I'm gonna pick projects.
They are gonna lose and I know that, and I
think a lot of other investors know that too. They go, okay, well,

(08:45):
I know that if I invest into ten eight, seven,
eight nine, my bomb, But the one that really makes
it is the one that's gonna that's gonna pull my
a out of out of everything, and it's gonna be okay.
So if if I can understand that I'm not perfect
and I will fail, that, I think at the end
of the day, I'll be all right. And that's just

(09:05):
leads me to the curiosity what you were talking about.
If I'm not curious as to all my screw ups
and all my successes, and I can't just take a
step back and say what works and what doesn't, then
nothing will work. So I always say, like we have
to learn from mistakes and don't have to be your mistakes,
So hopefully people can learn from our mistakes and move

(09:26):
forward as better investors. Yeah, it's and I think that's
an attitude that's all too often kind of missing from
I think missing from the crypto space certainly. And I
guess kind of you know, the wider, the wider world
of investing, You know, it tends to be. It can
have such a kind of matcho feel to it sometimes,

(09:48):
you know, And and there's so much there's so much
hype gets built up, especially as you say, during during
bull markets when things are just going crazy and the
can the picture becomes so unclear, doesn't it? And it
looks like it looks like everyone's kind of making these
huge wins and making these huge gains, and no one

(10:09):
seems to be failing. And yet people are sitting there
at home and thinking, well, why am I? Why can't
I do all of this? Why can't I? And without
without really appreciating that. Yeah, people are failing all the time,
across the boards, at everything every day. But it's the
people who learn from those mistakes who and like you do, Rob,

(10:31):
kind of accept those failures and and move on. Oh,
let me tell you. I want to talk about failures.
So let's just let's just stick with it in the
crypto space itself. I remember so in twenty twenty, when
things are really really heating up. I remember I put
out a couple of price prediction videos. Well never do
those again, and I took a look out and I said,

(10:51):
you know, I think that bitcoin. I thought it was
a conservative number. I thought, I said, I think bitcoin
can make to one hunter k. How whereas that didn't
that didn't work out. But then I thought, well, maybe
it go'ld make to one hundred and fifty k. And
that was the most the conservative I'd always be one
hundred one hundred fifty k. And we didn't even touch that.
I mean we hit I think we topped out on
November fourteenth, and remember eleven somewhere around there, around sixty

(11:15):
nine K, and that was about it ethereum. I thought
could go up to you know, ten k. Of course
we only did half that, and then some other ones.
And then like when I take a look at and
I step back and go, look at all these these
these failures that I've done. But it taught me some
important lessons which is as much as you think you
know the market and where you think things are going,

(11:37):
you're usually mistaken. So it's important too. And well, I
think we're gonna talk about this in a bit, is
taking profits along the way so you don't pull the
same thing that I pulled, which was writing everything up
and writing everything back down into that in twenty eighteen.
In twenty twenty one, I didn't do it as bad,
but I don't think I sold as much as I
as I should have, and taken a little bit more

(11:59):
conservative approach, and now now here we are. And then also,
like I mean, other mistakes, I mean, I've this is
why I have these these new rules on my are
not new, these rules of Betama forever, but I've got really,
you know, five rules. And it's because of the mistakes
that I've learned from Voyager and Celsius, which is they

(12:20):
became insolvent because they made bad management decisions. And if
we can hedge ourselves against these bad management decisions that
we don't know about, will be a lot safer. And
one of those that I talk about is it's all gone,
meaning don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
I've had people say that they've invested their total life
savings and everything else into crypto. That is a recipe
for disaster. The next one is everything is a scam

(12:43):
until proven otherwise. Next one is don't leave anything in exchanges.
I mean you can, you can. Now we're in a
world now where we don't need a bank, we don't
need an intermediary, we don't need those those middle people.
We can we can custody our own assets in a
in a ledger or a tracer. So don't leave anything
exchang is there's no point to it, and it's very
simple to do. I mean, you've got great videos. I've

(13:04):
got some videos too, it would show you how to
do it. Also, don't use leverage because it's a it's
again a rescue for disaster. There's I think it was
Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett who said there's three ways
to lose everything, ladies, liquor, and leverage, and it makes
a lot of sense. And then lastly is take profits
along the way. Sweet Jesus, I mean, if you could

(13:25):
just take a look and just say yourself and we'll
talk about this later. It's about people will always say
you gotta diamond hands everything and hold it forever, and
you could you could hold everything. Maybe bitcoin becomes the
new world reserve currency. I'm not here to dispute that
I have no idea, but maybe, just maybe that won't happen.
And if those things don't happen, maybe it's a good

(13:46):
idea to take profits along the way so when the
bear market comes, you have more powder on the sidelines
to do the things you really want to do. Buy crypto,
buy real estate, start a company, pay your bills for
pete sakes, and go from there. So those are the
new rules. But it all came from all the screw
ups that I did along the way. Yeah, I think, well,
anyone listening to this, I think should just should just

(14:08):
rewind those last few minutes and just listen to those
five rules five rules again and note them down, because yeah,
I mean, it's it's so true. It's so true. And yeah,
from someone like you, from someone like yourself, Rob, who
has who has made these mistakes, you know, this isn't
just something This isn't just something you know you pick
up in a self help book. This is this is

(14:29):
this is You've been there, you know, and I mean
I've I've made I've made these so many of these
mistakes as well, and yeah, you know the best the
only thing you know, it's making a mistake twice. That's that.
That's the definition of a fool, isn't it. And if
you if you're prepared to learn from your mistakes, then
then you know there's there's so many there's so many

(14:52):
possibilities ahead of you. But it's that first it's that
difficult first stake step of of looking yourself in the
eye and going, I screwed. You know, what can I
how can I? How can I not? What steps can
I take to not screw up again? And I think, yeah,
those those five steps of yours are the best, the
best best advice you can give anyone. Well, if you

(15:15):
whoever listen to the podcast or comes to the show,
they'll see those five rules. They're constantly on my on
every live stream and every video that I do, so
you can't forget them. And then there's a there's a quote.
It's a it was a Greek philosopher poet Archipelaicus, and
they said, we don't we don't rise to the occasion,

(15:37):
we fall to the level of our training. And I think,
if you can have these these rules, whatever those rules
are that you create for yourself or maybe some of mine.
I think it's it makes you a little bit safer
in the investment realm, absolutely absolutely, so yeah, so so
I mean, let's let's kind of bearing all those sparing

(15:57):
all those things in mind. And you know, as as
you say, you talk about Voyager and Celsius, these these
these events that have taken place just within the last
few months in the in these really difficult last few
months that the crypto markets had that financial markets everywhere
have had. So yeah, I just I'm really interested to
kind of get your your take on where crypto is

(16:19):
at the moment, where the markets, what we're looking at,
what sort of situation we're looking at. Obviously we're deep
into a bear market. Now, how long do you see
it's going on? You know what, what do you think
we're at a particular stage of the bear market yet.
So I'm a big believer in in cycles and four
your cycles and twenty your cycles and things like that.

(16:42):
There's a great book it's called This Time Is Different.
It's by Ryan Hart and Roboth and it takes a
look at eight centuries of economic folly and just says
how things just kind of repeat and repeat and repeat.
And for these four your side, I mean, for bitcoin
has them. In the crypto market, I always take a look,

(17:06):
you know, and it always starts with a with a having.
So in twenty twelve we had a Having thirteen and
all time high than twenty fourteen, we have a dip
until I'm fifteen, a reset. Two thousand and sixteen, we
have a Having seventeen all time high two eighteen, a
dip in a reset. In two thousand twenty we had
a HAVOC twenty one all time high, which I didn't

(17:27):
I honestly went against my better judgment. I thought, well,
maybe we'll extend it out to twenty twenty two, but
it didn't work like that. Twenty twenty one was it,
And then twenty twenty two. Now here we are in
this in this massive dip. I mean, I think we're
down seventy one percent sevent two percent from the all
time high for bitcoin. All t cooins, of course, have
fallen somewhere, specifically different ones eighty percent or lower, depending

(17:52):
on which one you take a look at. So I
think when I take a look at where we're at
right now, I just see it at as we're in
a bear market, and you have to understand that we
were in a in a very long uptrend from the
time that bitcoin was creating two thousand and nine, after
the financial global crisis and meltdown, when we had an

(18:15):
economic boom from twenty ten all the way up twenty
twenty one. Yeah, I mean, I mean, take away that
the coronavirus, and there was a lot of quantitative easing
and a lot of printing and a lot of globalization,
and it was it was right for that market to
really happen, and we didn't see a recession. So now
when people say, well, bitcoin's never done, bitcoin has never
been through a major war. Oh, I mean, you know,

(18:38):
it's been through Afghanistan. And Afghanistan we've been in there
for for decades. We just pulled out last year and
of course the Ukraine War. Now we're taking a look
at sort of quantity of easing, quantity of tightening, which
I believe what will happen. And if we take a
look at just the basic charts of how long recessions last,
usually looking at around eighteen months, maybe twenty four months,
and going all the way back to the sixties. So

(19:00):
if we hit a recession like we think we are
going to in twenty twenty three, and not to say
we can't have a rally in that time. I think
in the next three months we might have a bear
market rally. But if we have a recession twenty twenty three,
which is the same thing as a four year cycle,
it goes down, which we'll see it. I think stocks, equities,

(19:21):
real estate will collapse, and then in twenty twenty four
we'll see a little bit of rebuilding, but pretty much sideways.
And what does that leave us to to twenty twenty
five when we start to hit bigger numbers in all
time high So it's almost it's weird. It's almost like
it fits in there perfectly. And having said that, does
that mean it's going to happen? No? I could be
wrong yet again, don't I have no crystal ball, so

(19:43):
don't listen to me. But it's almost like it's fitting
in there pretty well. But maybe it takes to twenty
twenty six by twenty twenty seven. And so the question
that I have for actually, for you guys, would that
be so awful if we got three years or so
two dollar cost average and buy into our positions because
like we know that bearer markets and wilts forever, and

(20:04):
neither do ball markets. So maybe that's another blessing we
just don't know yet. Yeah, And it feels like after
such a I mean, there was talk of the everything bubble,
wasn't there after such a long period of high prices,
of growth, of quantitative easing of all the it. You know, Yeah,
as you say, these things, these things can't possibly last forever,

(20:26):
and there has to be there has to be a
cooling off. There has to be a draining of all
this kind of unnatural exuberance, and that has to happen
before anything can grow again. So I'm kind of with you.
I mean, twenty twenty five, it seems it seems such
a long way off, doesn't it. And there's there's so
much there's so much kind of pain, there's so much

(20:48):
kind of you know, there's so much bleeding of prices
in that time. And I guess, I mean, I don't
know about you, but certainly the sense that I'm getting
looking at the crypto market a lot of the time,
but also kind of wider markets as well, I think
the overriding sense can at times like this can often
be just boredom. You know, everything's kind of trading kind
of sideways and down, and all that exuberance has gone

(21:11):
and all you've got left are you know, a kind
of a few people sort of grimly hanging on in there,
whilst most people just kind of focus on other things.
It's so, yeah, I don't I don't necessarily think a
long cooling off, a long period of of of of
low growth is necessarily a bad thing. No. No, And

(21:33):
then when I when I take a look at it,
and I take a look at you know, where these
markets are are potentially going. I mean, we could be
we could go any which way in our honesty, but
there's a couple of things that make me stop and
consider I could very well be wrong. There's two two

(21:58):
ways to go about it. There is a legendary investor,
Drucken Miller, and he came out and he said, like, look,
he said, this reminds me of the same time of
back in the sixties and seventies. Maybe take a look
at the SMP five hundred. There was like a ten
years of stagnation and I went down and it kind
of went sideways and went up, but it took ten
years to really recover of what actually happened, and and

(22:19):
he gave some specific reasons, and the reasons why that
it went down and came back up was, of course globalization.
Things actually started to move out. These big corporations would
would move across globally and higher workers for cheaper labor,
and they would increase their productivity. And right now there's
less of globalization as people as especially here in America,

(22:40):
we're starting to kind of pull things back and become
more nationalization of what we want to do. And there's that.
There's there's the FED rate hikes, which I mean, we
just did seenti five basis points mortgage housing mortgage costs
or like seven percent or higher. And Jerome Palace said
pretty much, hey, we're going to keep going until we
break the back of inflation, which is two percent, even

(23:02):
though we just see it's it's well over gosh six
percent now as well. So I take a look at
that and go, maybe we've got a longer time than
I think about. But then on the flip side, I
also think about this. Institutions are greedy, let's be honest,
and if they're looking at some asymmetrical bets, they have
to take a look at well, okay, where is the

(23:22):
future going? You know, from the industrial revolution to the
computer revolution to where we are right now, maybe the
cryptologial asset revolution. Where's the money going? Right now? We're
sitting around nine hundred and fifty billion dollars market cap
for the entire crypto market. Well, the entire market cap
of gold is twelve trillion dollars, the entire market cap

(23:46):
of real estate globally is over three hundred and forty
trillion dollars, and the entire market cap of the entire
stock market is between two hundred and sixty and three
hundred trillion dollars. So if they take a look at
that and go, Okay, where's the best place I can
park my money as it inflates away? Well, maybe it's
this thing called bitcoin cryptogial assets. Because I want to

(24:06):
see a double triple, and alls I gotta do is
wait for it to go to nine hundred fifty billion
to two and three trillion. Well they've already done that
in twenty twenty one. So that's the thing that I
always look at and go, is druck a Miller right?
Or we get a whole decade? Or do we just
take a look at the money and go, Okay, well
there's a bigger upsite here, and that's a big asymmetrical bet. Yeah. Yeah,

(24:28):
and the sense, I think, the sense that there are
institutions there is there is big institutional money kind of
waiting on the sidelines, I think, and obviously a lot
of it. It concerns well, I mean, the actions of
the FED. That's something I wanted to talk to you
about it a little bit because I was really keen
to get your perspective. I was talking to to Ben

(24:49):
Cohen about this just yesterday. I'm really keen to get,
you know, the perspectives of my American friends, because well,
let's let's quickly talk about the FED, because obviously you
referenced you talked about your own how these the seventy
five basis point rate hike that they've just the FED
is just put in place. I mean, it looks like
we're gonna you're going to get another one in early
November when the next when the FED sort of reconvenes again.

(25:14):
Do you think that the FED is do you think
that the FED is kind of is focused on its
kind of credibility at the moment, because obviously they kind
of got burned around the pandemic, didn't they when when
they these kind of claims that inflation was transitory, and
now inflation is running red hot and they've got to

(25:37):
get it under control. So do you think do you
think the Fed is is desperately trying to kind of
maintain a bit of credibility now, which which would obviously
mean that interest rates are going to keep going up
for really the foreseeable future. I think I'm just going
to guess. I mean, I know Jerome watched the show,
but I mean I've never talked him personally, and and

(25:58):
I just have to guess that, I mean, they kind
of have a black eye because they talked about, you know,
inflation is not a big issue. Inflation is transitory. Okay,
now it's going to be around. But we're gonna have
a soft landing. Okay, now it's not so much as
soft landing. It's gonna be harder landing. And now it's
just going to be, you know, maybe just a big
delta disaster and it just crashes in. So I think

(26:21):
there is a part of that where they want to
They probably wanted not just their reputation, but it's it's
something a guy you know this. You you always want
to do the best thing that you can do at
your job. You want to always want to, you know,
try to live up to the expectation, to try to
the best that you possibly can. I don't think that
Jerome Powell wants to be remembered as the FED chair

(26:44):
like Burns was in the late seventies, because Burns was
was the FED chair before Volker came in and he
got replaced because he did do FED rate hikes, but
he didn't do enough, which was really leading us into
another great depression, and they had to get this, you
have to step down. Bulker came in and said, look,
here's what we're gonna do. It's gonna suck, it's being painful,
but we're gonna avoid this depression. And he did it,

(27:07):
and people were mad at him. But I know in
the back of your mind you're thinking to yourself, this
is what I need to do to do my job
and to make sure I do things right. And I
think it's and you can hear it in his voice
and every one of his of his speeches, I mean,
just the Jackson whole speech. He invoked the Volker at
least four or five times. And said, look, we're gonna
keep doing until the job is done. We're gonna we're

(27:28):
gonna try to hit that two percent rate, and we're gonna, unfortunately,
to keep raising rates. It's gonna be painful for the
American worker, but we must do this because if we don't,
leads to da da da, and then off we go.
So I think that yes, he's probably worried about, like,
you know, to saving face, but I think the bigger
thing is moving forward into you know, what is your

(27:51):
what is your legacy moving forward? Were you the one
that led America to the depression or were you the
one that led him out? Yeah? Yeah, and I guess
being you know, you want to he'll want to be
remembered as as as as the guy who kind of
forced the American economy to take its medicine. However, you know,
however difficult, however painful that was, because yeah, you're absolutely right,

(28:14):
you know, legacy, I think is is top of mind
for guys like this. You don't want you want to
be the Volca, you don't want to be the Burns. Yeah,
and you know what, like like here's a couple of things.
First of all, who remembers Burns. Nobody remembers Burns, you know,
they remember Volcan though, like, oh I remember Volcan because
he isn't one who did it. But having said all that,
there's another side of that. Is this the perfect way

(28:36):
to do things? Is this the right way for that
Drum has to do it this way, The whole fet
has to do this way. That's a difficult decision. That's
a difficult things to say, and a lot of people
will say, no, he can actually ease up and he
can do these things. I personally think that he has
to keep his foot on the gas a little bit
because we start quantitative easing, which, let's be honest, thank

(28:59):
if anyone's doing that right now, what's the turns out?
I mean, it's kind of weird to raise rates then
also start to turn on the money. Printer. Maybe that's
the way, but I just don't see it. It's and
it's an odd situation we've got in the UK at
the moment because obviously, yeah, with the pound, the pound
absolutely plunged on on the news of that kind of

(29:19):
disastrous budget, and I mean it's scary how close to
parity with the dollar we got. I mean, it's the
craziest thing. But you know, now that the bank has
now that the bank has stepped in, the markets are
are rallying. And actually, I mean the the UK government
has been kind of forced into into a very embarrassing

(29:40):
U turn to to kind of scrap this this top
rate at this this top rate tax cut. But I mean, yeah,
certainly the pound is the pound is rallying now. But
I mean, yeah, long term, you think, how can this
how can just flooding the economy with more money? How
can that be? How can that be a good thing
in the long term? This this feels to me like

(30:01):
a very sort of a kind of relief rally before
before things start trending downwards again. Certainly certainly in the
UK market. Yeah, that's a good point. A lot of people,
I mean, it's amazing, Like you'll see, like there's two
camps one that say this is going to lead to
absolute disaster, and people are like, no, modern monetary theory,
we can keep printing as long as you want to

(30:21):
and it'll be fine. And so we're going to find out.
We are going to find out, and it's going to
be a scary time. That's why, like, like people listen
to this heads your bet. You know, I don't think
this is the time to sell your house and kids
and kidneys just to start to put up into a
bunch of stocks or crypto I think, I think there's
a lot of unknowns, so be careful out there. Yeah. Yeah,

(30:44):
And that's well, that kind of leads me into something
because I wanted to talk to you about as well, Rob,
because we were we were speaking off air, and you
were talking about you were talking about kind of this
this idea of diamond hands, you know, this phrase that
you a phrase that we hear a lot in the
crypto space, this idea of you know, holding on at

(31:04):
all costs, you never sell, you never sell, and never sell.
And you know, this is something that's it's a really
kind of pervasive, you know, pervasive thing in the crypto
space at the moment. I've I've I must say, you know,
I've I've kind of pushed this philosophy in the past
as well, because you know, I have I believe it
a lot of the time. But you made this really

(31:26):
good point of like, you know, people are so often
kind of led down this path of believing one thing
or on and there's a complete opposite to that as well,
isn't there there there are hype There are the hype
merchants who are just you know, buy, sell, trade, you know,
do what, do what you gotta do, and then you've
got the other but you know, the hardcore diamond handers

(31:46):
on the other on the other side. So I wanted
to Yeah, I think there's this idea of how you
should I feel as an investor, you should you should
look to go your own way. You know that that
filter out some of this noise, filter out, filtering out
the diamond hand does filter out the hype merchants and
kind of focus on your particular path. I mean, is

(32:09):
that something Is that something that you've kind of always
Is that? Have you always trying to be your own man?
Do you think? Or is this something that you've you've
kind of developed over time? No, just it just it
goes back the samething where it's home about about screw
ups in the beginning and the mistakes. Like in the beginning,
I was just you know, me and you guy are
the same. We would say you got a diamond hands,

(32:29):
you gotta hold for you gotta hold and hold and
hold and then hold some more, because that's just how
everything will work out, and it'll work itself out again.
There's a there's this phrase I say because people will say, well,
you know, bull runs don't last for nothing goes up,
for anything goes down forever. So if you just hold
you be okay. But I want everybody remember this. Some

(32:51):
things aren't coming back as far as like crypto digital assets,
they're just not. And I always use an example, and
it may play out differently, but I always say a
Dash assault. And there was two different projects. One was
called Dash and it was the biggest one of the
It was the top ten crypto in twenty seventeen, and
I was supposed to be the next big thing and
the flippening and takeover ethereum. And you invest in twenty seventeen,

(33:14):
you are underwater big time because even twenty twenty one
had a little rally but not too much. And the
one on their one called Salt Salts was a lending
platform and the SEC got involved in sued him and
twenty seventeen, I think one above a dollar. Now, what's
pennies in the dollar and it's not coming back. Almost
looks like it almost looks like like an EKG rhythm.
When some of the flatlines and has a heart attack.

(33:35):
That's essentially what it looks like. It's like one bit
and that's it. So when we take a look at
these things, you have to understand that some things aren't
coming back. And in this bear market, that's when you
want to call build a bear, do your research and
all those things. So the next part is understanding what
kind of a trader you are, what kind of person
you are, what kind of investor you are. If you

(33:57):
are a Michael Sailor and you're a billionaire with a
company that can take out a bunch of debt and
buy a bitcoin and wait for fifty years, that is
much different from a person who works at the post office,
or is it works at a post office? Maybe single
mom has three kids and has very little time to
invest and very little money and has to put through

(34:18):
the table. There is a vast difference. So you have
to understand who am I and how long is my
time horizon? If you want a diamond hands for fifty years.
Bitcoin might be the greatest thing of all time. I'm
not saying it. It can't. It may be the next
world reserve currency. I have no idea, but I will
save this. It is everything in crypto and digital assets

(34:39):
is a speculative asset until we start to get some
really fast mass adoption where people are using it on
a day to day like basis. And I'm not talking
about like a million people or ten million people. I'm
talking like one hundred million up to a billion people.
Once we get that we're not a speculative asset anymore,
then all of a sudden start to start to smooth

(35:01):
out and we have more of those like typical bear
and bull runs like we see in the stock market.
So right now, if people say diamond hands, you can
do that. I'm not here to say that you can't
do that, but I understand, like, how long is your
time horizon? Do you have problems like buying things and
putting through the table and if and if you lose
too much then that's it. Or you like a billionaire

(35:24):
who are like let a ride, I don't care. I
got a billion dollar company. I can do those things.
So yeah, it's just it comes down to you and
what you want to do. And that's why I say
nobody ever want broke taking profits. Take a little profits
on along the way, you'll be all right. And I
think that's such that's so relevant now when you know
as you as you alluded too early. You know, mortgages

(35:46):
are going up, but just cut the cost of living
everywhere is going up. You know, there are bills to
be paid and they're getting harder and harder to pay.
And yeah, I think it's so important to consider, you know,
your own individual secumstances. It's like, yes, it would be
great if you could hold on to this, to you know,
to your bitcoin, to your you know, to your ethereum,

(36:07):
to your stocks or whatever. It would be great if
you could hold on to that until you know, prices
go up again. But if if you've got to pay
a bill, if you've got to make your mortgage payment,
then you know, perhaps perhaps now is the time to sell.
If if if there's no other way to make that payment. Yeah,
and not only that, but think about this way, like
how many people have been diamond handing for and it

(36:31):
is less stress if you have just extra cash in
the side, and you're like, I don't really care, right,
but if your if your job as an investor is
to accumulate wealth. Well, we know that these cycles come
in come out right, and we know that there are
inevitable crashes, and we see that there's a recession on
the horizon. So I'm gonna ask everybody here listening, if

(36:53):
you have been in this crypto space for quite some time,
did you sell as much as you wanted to sell
or do you think that and maybe at some point
you should have sold a little more, because now we're
in this bear market, we're below a trillion dollars, and
we know that there's a lot of great buying opportunities
right now and coming up in the next twelve, eighteen
and twenty four months. Maybe I'm not saying that this

(37:13):
is wrong or right. Maybe it will be nice to
have the dry powder and cash on the side to
going Okay, first of all, I can breathe, and second
of all, if these opportunities come up, I am ready
to strike because I have enough in the background and
I can do the things I want to do. So
I think that that's the bigger question you have to
think about. And hopefully when people are listening to this now,
maybe in a bull run, they think to myself, wow,

(37:34):
maybe it's a good idea to think about selling at
some point, maybe a percentage absolutely absolutely whatst people digest
that we're going to take a very quick break, but
we'll be back in just a moment. Welcome back everyone.

(38:03):
Just before the break, Rob, you were talking, Yeah, you
were talking about this, I guess the importance of the
importance of just sometimes sometimes just taking profits, you know,
kind of moving on from this this idea of kind
of diamond handing until quite possibly the end of time. Yeah,
what's what sort of what what kind of advice can
you can you give people on that, you know, especially

(38:25):
especially given your kind of your long experience. Well, the
first experience is this is that it's it's important to
take profits along the way perfect you know, at some
point I should say so, I know people will say,
well when do I take profits? When's a good when's
a good time to take profits? And this all depends
on really what it comes down to is what kind
of you know trader that you actually are, and if

(38:48):
you are, you know, what's your time horizon. So there's
there's different types of traders, and there's there's technical analysis traders,
and they're all over YouTube. You can find much better
ones than me. I'm actually quite awful at TA. But
you've got TA, you got FA, you got fundamental analysis,
or people take a look at well, you know, like

(39:09):
what does the product do? And I always say like
like what's the cut, what's the community? How big is that?
What is the utility? What does it do? What is
a team behind it? What is the tokenomics? Or and
if you're into stocks, of course, you take a look
at earnings like what warm Buffett does, and you take
a look at sentiment analysis like what is the the
greed and fear index? What kind of sentiment is positive

(39:31):
or negative? And kind of go from all those things.
But the big thing, though, I think, is is time horizon.
What kind of trader? Are you a scalper and you're
like you sit around for like seconds and then you
start trading all day long or a day trader, or
you can get things done in like hours to today's
a swing position or a swing for again days two weeks,
a position trader months or if you're somebody like me

(39:53):
who waits like as far as like cycles, I kind
of oscillate between a position and a cycle where I
wait like weeks to months, sometimes even years to trade out,
because you have to understand it all depends on what
you want to do. Do you want to sit around
and look at a bunch of charts all day and
just kind of get in and out. You can do that,

(40:13):
It's just not my thing. I just got more things
going on. Or if you just say, okay, here's here's
a basic way you can do it, and this is
no financial advice. This is just the basics of basics.
I would say, let's say you put in a thousand
dollars into bitcoin, and bitcoin is at twenty thousand, and
then it goes up to forty thousand. Now that a
thousand dollars is now worth two thousand dollars, Maybe maybe

(40:35):
you take out eleven hundred dollars from that position and go, okay,
I'm and take profits which is my initial investment plus
one hundred bucks and other nine hundred dollars ride and
I don't really care what happens. That's just that that's
just one thing that you can do or like. For me,
I take a look at There's a couple of different
things I look at because this is only specific to
crypto digital assets, stocks and the way that that market

(40:59):
moves is different. It's not so much of a speculative asset.
There's some actual real world things that are going on
as far as like an Apple, a Microsoft at Tesla
and their shares. But I remember it's speculative, so I
take a look at things yet to understand that usually
not all the time, but bitcoin moves first. Bitcoin starts
to rally, altcoins rally behind that. People sell their position

(41:22):
in Bitcoin a little bit to go into alts because
there is it's higher risk, for there's higher return. They
ride those those positions up until they decide, okay, I'm
gonna take my profits here. They get out of al
Alts fall, Bitcoin's fall, and it kind of just goes again.
So for me, what I take a look at is
and we did a video on this couple weeks ago,

(41:42):
which is there's a great website it's called look into
bitcoin dot com. It's great because it's free, one hundred
percent free. It's got high quality charts that you can
take a look at. And the first thing I'm gonna
look at is there's this thing called picycle top, and
the picycle top but it does it takes the one
hundred eleven day moving average as it crosses over the

(42:03):
three hundred day moving average times two. I know it
sounds complex, but it makes it super simple. Because I
like pictures because I'm not that smart, and I just
like how how the colors are? The colors are what
we'll tell you, Like, look up here is in the
red meaning it's it's pretty much gonna it's it's heating up.
Maybe it's a good time to take some profits. Or
it goes down to the green and that means that's

(42:25):
it's cooling off. In the blue section, I should say
where it's cooling off and maybe it's time to accumulate there.
And there's a big white swath. And what's crazy about
the picycle top? For example, it was createing in twenty nineteen,
it took a retrospective look back, and it called the tops.
In twenty thirteen, it's called the top almost perfectly. In
twenty seventeen, and in twenty twenty one it called one

(42:48):
of the tops. When bitcoin was at sixty K, you know,
on April eleventh, twenty one. It missed the next top,
which was in November twenty twenty one when it went
from sixty to sixty eight K. But here's the thing
for me, when I look at these things, I'm like,
I don't I'm never going to hit the top. I'm
not that smart, I'm not that good. But if I
get between sixteen eighty percent of the tops and I

(43:08):
can buy between sixty eight percent of the bottoms, I
hit those those numbers. Overall, I'll be a much happier person.
So we took a look at the picycle top. There's
another one called the MVRVZ score, and that'll just take
a look at the market value versus realized value because
things get overheated this and what I do. They take
a look at these charts and just to kind of

(43:29):
verify they're not all going to line up. I take
a look at that that the nupl and was the
other one, not stock the flow Bitcoin Rainbow Price Arnicator,
not really although and of course there's one called the
Pwell multiple, which is pretty important pul e l L

(43:50):
because what it does it looks at the supply side
of bitcoin's economy, all the different bitcoin miners, because when
they start to sell off, then it might be a
good idea for you to start to sell off, and
when they're holding pretty high, maybe it's a good idea
for you to do the same thing. So you take
a look at all those those four five charts, run

(44:10):
them together and go, this is where I think things
are going, and then what's and then just to give
Ben a plug from into the cryptoverse that only takes
a look at Bitcoin, But what about the alts Because
if you take a look at the one of the
highs for bitcoin April eleventh, Etherium is only a two
thousand dollars, Cardono was only at a dollar twenty dollars thirty,

(44:32):
chain Link was was far far below that. Lightcoin is
actually pretty close. So again, if it starts with bitcoin
and then it goes into the alt coins, what if
I do, well, you can take those same charts that
are in look into bitcoin, go over to Ben's website,
into the cryptoverse dot com, and you can do a
picycle top for Ethereum, you can do a picycle top
for chain Link, Cardono, Avalanche, all those things and just go, oh, well,

(44:56):
this is where things are going. You won't time the top,
but it's a good going to take a look at
that as things go up and go, this is the
this is the problems I'm going to take again, nobody
ever want broth taken profits. You might cry a little
bit because you're like, oh, I took it at sixty thousand.
Bit one went to sixty nine thousand and this nine thousand.
It's okay, you're gonna be all right as long as
you don't do what I did, which in twenty seventeen

(45:17):
write it all up and then all the way back
down and be a bag holder for two or three years.
There's a I think there's there's a real sense. It's
it's interesting, you know what you say about that that
that there's you know, there's that that need that people
feel to to to try and to try and time
the top perfectly. And as you say, like no one
does it. It's it's almost impossible, and if anyone does

(45:39):
do it, it's more often than not luck. But I
think trading and investing there tends to there tends to
be a kind of macho element to it. Sometimes I
feel that that says, oh, you know you. And again
this ties into this ties into the concept of diamond hands,
doesn't it. It's like you somehow have to be a

(45:59):
hard man about it. You have to be you have
to be tough as nails. It's like, no, you have
to be. You have to be smart, you have to
get out. It's like I remember someone saying the best way,
the best way to win a fight, you know, the
best way to survive a fight is to not get
into a fight in the first place. And it always

(46:19):
kind of it always kind of stuck with me like that.
It's like, yeah, you know, the people who do the
people who do well are the people who cross the
street and avoid trouble. You know, the people who take
profits early and and accept that they cannot time the top. Yeah,
and then I mean you gotta remember something, is that
there's always going to be the person on the YouTube,

(46:42):
TikTok Twitter, Instagram. It's like, I I time it. I
told you I time to look at this tweet from
blah blah blah. However, look at all the tweets, look
at all the posts, because it's amazing how many people
will say this is the top. And then the month later, okay,
this is the top. Okay, two months later, okay, this
is the top. See I told you I got the top.
And it's the same thing of like the doomsday predictors. Right, well, actually,

(47:06):
if you did take a look at look back, like
some people say, you're gonna get You're gonna get in
a car accident. Okay, it's gonna be a car accident.
It's gonna be a car accident. I mean, and they
say that's you for like five years and you're going
to a car accident. You'll see I told you, I
told you're gonna a car accident. Well, yes, of course,
but you just gotta think, did you really tell me
the exact day now you didn't. That's really what it
comes down to. What people love to say, I did it,

(47:27):
I did this whole thing. Maybe I don't know. I'm
just trying to be safe. Yeah, And I think, you know,
in the Internet age, in the social media age, we
so many you know, we're assumed to have just really
short memories and the tension spans, aren't we It's like, oh,
you know, we'll only look at the last tweet. We'll
only look at we'll only watch the last video. And

(47:50):
that's what so many of these kind of hype merchants
count on, isn't it. It's like, oh, they'll forget the
fact that I that I said BTC was going to
go to two million, you know, just in a couple
of weeks ago or a few months ago or anything
like that. But they'll just look at the latest tweet
and I'll see if I can get it right there,
and if I don't, I'll just move on, you know,
And I think get it kind of ties into that

(48:12):
whole idea, doesn't it of if in doubt zoom out.
You know, you have to have you have to have
a longer view. You can't just it. It's so difficult
to it's it's not worth trying to make decisions in
the moment. You have to. You have to use all
the data that you can that you can find and
the data that you can interpret interpret well. And I

(48:33):
mean the benefit is the upside is that that data
is there. It's taking the time to wade through it
and look at it and try and make I think,
you know, dispassionate decisions if you like. Yeah, And that's why, well,
that's why you guys had a great channel guy, because
like you will do, you will do a deep dive
into a project, and then you'll follow up at the
project and say did I do this right? And then

(48:55):
you look at and go, okay, we missed this part.
We've got this part. Here's the pros and cons. I
actually stole that from you on my on my channel
for the pros and cards, which makes sense. And then
you constantly update so people can't go, oh, okay, because
a lot of times you'll see a project or a
prediction and one really updates it and says and I
also going to do is just go, you know, I

(49:16):
messed that up, that that wasn't right, and I here's
here's the correction, and we go from there. That's it. Yeah,
but it's it's hard to say that it is, but
you know, it's so it's so important and and you know,
it's a thing that you've got to you've got to accept,
and it's it's a thing that it's a good thing
for me to accept as well. And sometimes it does
feel now, you know, you go, do you know what

(49:36):
I was? I was wrong about that or I overstated
I overstated this positive, or I understated this negative. But
I think it reinforces in the viewer, or at least
I hope it does. You know, this sense that this
is a constant learning curve. You know, I feel I
feel like I know a lot about crypto, but you know,
I like to think that I'm the first to admit

(49:58):
that there's always more or I can know you know,
it's a constant, a constant process. You can never know
it all and is it was it Aristotle who said,
you know that the first step on the road to
wisdom is admitting how little it is that you actually know.
I may be I may be getting my philosophers mixed
up there, but that's some you know, that's something that

(50:20):
I try to live by. It's it's like there is
always something for me to learn, and it's you know,
it's it's about going out there and finding it and
being open to it. Yeah, And that's why I like
in these and this is the time for people in
the crypto market that everything's in a bear market, that
the noise, the volune gets turned down, so you can

(50:41):
do a lot of good education for yourself to figure
out what's the best investment strategy, what's the best project,
what's the best plan of attack moving forward? Because right
now is is probably the most sanest you'll be when
things are boring and moving sideways. If you can make
a plan now when things are when I said, like

(51:02):
I said, the volume is down, if you follow that
plan when things get crazy, because it's gonna get crazy everybody.
You're gonna see these markets rip at some point and go,
you know what, I know, I'm up five hundred percent,
but I think it's gonna go a thousand percent. I
think it's gonna go two thousand percent. And that may
be true, but you did a plan before, and you're

(51:22):
gonna be a lot happy you're following that plan in
the most saneous moments. Then when it gets insane and
those days are coming. Yeah, absolutely absolutely on that good
on that ray of sunshine. Should we take a quick break.
Let's take a break. Welcome back everyone, two Part three.

(51:54):
Before we I wanted to talk in a minute Rob
about the we were touching on this just before the break,
and I want to get back to that. In a moment,
this idea, you know, was starting to kind of lean in,
I think to the idea that sometimes, you know, when
you want to do something, doing nothing is perhaps the
best strategy. But before we get to that, I just
want as well to kind of go back to what

(52:15):
you were you were talking about with with trading, and you,
I must say, you know, you as you have got
such a broader perspective on trading than I have, you know,
trading for me has I've you know, one of the
great things, I think one of the great steps I
kind of made in the last in the last couple

(52:35):
of years is kind of admitting that I am not
really a trader. You know. I'm good at kind of
digging into projects and looking at the big picture and
you know, making what I think are informed decisions about
buying and selling. But just this idea of trading, I
think is, you know, especially especially on short time frames

(52:57):
or shorter time frames, is just is just beyond me.
It's just not my strength. So yeah, I think I
think it's really important for people to accept their limitations
as trades, don't you think I think, yeah, I mean,
but it's it's hard to accept the limitations when you
see and it's a constant bombardment of people saying how

(53:18):
successful they are, whether they are or not. I can't,
I can't speak for anybody. But when you take a
look at and go, like you allude to this just
a little bit ago, like why can't I make those
millions of dollars when I see this other person who's
talking about it and he or she is making million
of dollars, and only makes sense that I could. First
of all, I think you have to understand that that

(53:40):
some of those people are not truthfully honest about where
it is. And the second thing is is that you
have to understand that sometimes those people that say that
they made that on trading, they didn't make it on trading.
They did a lot of things. They thought they did
some dirty things, whether that be a pump and dump
or some other type of business, you don't know. So
when they when they flash something out here, you have

(54:00):
to understand, maybe that's not the real truth. And I
know it's hard. It's it's easy to say, I'm like, well,
that makes sense, but then when you see it, you're like, hey, hey,
that guy's got it. Why can't I get it? So
just accept the fact that again, like you're gonna make
mistakes and things are going to work out. You're never
going to sell the absolute top. You're never going to
sell the absolute bottom. But the real question is what

(54:21):
is most important for you and you're a specific situation.
Is it to gain ten percent on whatever that you're
invested into on top of your regular salary or you
all the way up to like a micro strategy going
well do we make a couple of billion in this
quarter or whatever else? It is one hundreds and millions
dollars and there's a big wide swath in between, So

(54:41):
just save yourself what is important for me and what
I want to do, because there's a big difference out
there and what and I guess as well. And this
is something that I think Krypto has kind of mundied
the water zone a bit, because we have seen people
who have made insane games, you know, people who have
invested perhaps just a couple of hundred dollars or sometimes

(55:02):
even less and have become millionaires, multimillionaires are off the
back of it, you know. And I think that's that's
I think that a sense that kind of still hangs
around the crypto market. It's like, this is this is
a this is a way to make fast and easy money.
And I think I mean, I think, for one thing,
those days are were certainly they're they're they're gone at

(55:24):
the moment. At the moment, yeah they could you know,
they could come back. That those sorts of returns aren't
aren't impossible in the future. But I think it's so
important to manage expectations. And it's like, you know, it's
not about making a million dollars off of a hundred
you know, that is that is the that is a
moon shot, and not many people pull it off. But

(55:46):
if you can make a thousand dollars off that hundred,
or even if you can make two hundred dollars off
that one hundred dollars, that is that is that is success.
That is success by by any sane person's measure. Yeah,
and then like I mean, the average returns of the
of the of the typical of the SMP five hundred,

(56:06):
you looking around eight point seven percent annualized, which is
still pretty good and not too bad. Now years ago
you do a sixty forty split with stocks and bonds,
that's a little bit out the window now. But I
want everybody remember this also is that you know, you'll
you'll see the post of and here's a prime example,
like the dogecoin millionaire seems like a nice guy, and

(56:28):
i've you know, I've watched the evolution of what happened there.
So apparently he invested one hundred eighty one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars into dogecoin when it was pennies in
the dollar, right, and it went all the way up
to a million and three months a million dollars worth,
so he almost ten x a little bit less than
ten x, and then went all the way up to

(56:49):
three million dollars and can you do that, Well, it's
very risky if you have one hundred and that's just
like one hundred and eighty thousand. I don't know who's
got that laying around, but sure, and it goes all
the way up to three million. But and that's what
people know, but they don't know this part, and that
is that he never sold a dime and he and
it went all the way back down. As of three

(57:10):
months ago, it was worth three hundred and twenty thousand.
That was three months ago, no, four months ago, and
now today it's probably around two hundred and ten thousand dollars.
So what we just talked about as far as taking profits,
make sure you understand what's going on. And you might
see this one post of one guy who made a
million dollars, But the question is where is he now?

(57:31):
And that is a bigger thing to think about. Yeah,
and it's I guess you know social media is in particular,
it's so it's so two D, isn't it. You only
get you only get what's what the what the person
is willing to show you and is he alluded to earlier?
You know, there's so much, there's so much happening behind
the scenes in so many cases, but all we get

(57:53):
is two D on the screen, whereas you know, you
your own your own perspective on your situation that's in
that's in three D, and that is a much is
a much clearer picture. So I think, yeah, it's really
as you say, it's really important to try and think, well,
there's a what's happening in that what's happening in that
other dimension that I'm not seeing? You know, is this

(58:16):
is this the full story? Because yeah, you know that
story illustrates it perfectly, doesn't it. And and I think,
as you, yeah, as you said, like this guy invested,
who has one hundred and eighty and to invest in
a dog coin? I mean that's yeah, yeah, I mean
eighteen dollars, not yourself, you go through it, but one

(58:41):
hundred and I mean, that's just that's just mind boggling.
I mean, and you have to assume you kind of
have to just guess that that that the person doing
that one hundred and eighty thousand dollars of them presumably
isn't that much, and therefore they are not They are
not living a regular person's life any stretch of the imagination. No,

(59:02):
and you know that's that's more of a of a
great story to highlight as opposed to the person was like,
you know, I've been investing for twenty years. I just
put a little money into it, and as time goes on,
I take a little profits and now I have X, Y,
and Z. That's a very boring story and no one
wants to really get that's not hype. That's not going
to sell, that's not going to click. But that's, to me,

(59:26):
is one of those ways to grow wealth over time.
Not fancial advice, but it seems to work out, okay,
over time. Yeah, don't be afraid to be boring. That's right,
they'll be afraid of boring. So a lesson I've I've
taken to heart all my life apparently. But yeah, and
and that kind of leads us in nicely, doesn't it

(59:47):
to what we were touching on earlier, This idea of
just learning to do nothing. I think, you know, and
I think this is is this is a great time,
you know, from an investment point of view, I think,
I mean, I am. I look at the markets and
I think this is this is just a time to
sit on the sidelines. This is a time too. As
you said earlier, you know, to do to do some digging,

(01:00:09):
to do the research, to do the you know, to
do the stuff that is going to stand you in
good stead later on. But so many people ask me,
you know all the time at the moment, it's like, oh,
what are you getting into? At the moment, andy, thing
you've got your eye on. It's like, no, I'm just
I'm I'm I'm holding back. It's like there's there's that
uh I when I look at all the when people

(01:00:29):
say what are you get into? What are you get into?
What's going on? You know, what's the next investment? It's
like that that that Dave of Chappelle skite where there's
a homeless guy's always scratched himself. Hey man, gunya that
da da da, Because it seems like it's almost like
like an addiction. It's there's three there's three things, and
and there's and there's very ability for investing. The easiest
by far as to buy. It's easy to buy. It's

(01:00:51):
it's always easy for me to say dolla cross average
people will say, by the depth, it's the easiest way,
because you think I'm buying, I'm doing something, I'm taking action.
The second heart thing to do is selling. You're still
taking action, but it's hard to say to yourself, well
this could have like I said, and went a five
hundred percent, but it could go up ten thousand percent.
But I did a plan. I got to sell. And
the third and the by far the hardest thing to

(01:01:14):
do is what you just said, guy, is sitting on
your hands and waiting and doing nothing because you're not
taking action. You're sitting in the sidelines going and it's patience.
And in this day and age, when we are sucked
into the social media and the phones and the near instantaneous,
instantaneous gratification, it's very hard to sit and do nothing,

(01:01:34):
and that I think right now is one of those
things to do. And unfortunately, unlike I say, don't do anything.
Am I talking about us in the channel as far
as dollar cost averaging like for me? And I don't
know that that's what comes down to that, that whole
thing we talk about where is the money going? You know,
we have less than a trillion market cap and all

(01:01:55):
these different trillions dollars we have drug in millar going.
It's a ten year time frame. I don't know who's right.
So For me, I've scaled back drastically by dollar cost average,
and I do very few alt coins. But I still
buy a little bit and nibble on the way. But
I still think that there's a lower low coming in.
I don't know if it's this year or if it's

(01:02:15):
next year. If we take a look at the macro landscape,
I mean, rates are going up, we still have the
Ukraine War, you got the horrible situation with with energy
and energy supply in the UK, the high cost of living,
the housing market that we're seeing more as far as
supply and less of demand. And that's that means that
there's there's problems of brew. So when I look at

(01:02:38):
this thing, I'm like, I can't buy much, but I
just because maybe I'm wrong, I nibble just a little bit,
I think. And yeah, it's that that that word control.
I think that would you know, you feel you're feel
in control if you're doing something, and that makes it, Yeah,
it makes it so much harder, doesn't it. And I

(01:02:58):
mean my dad talks about because he's kind of amazed that.
I mean he's amazed that you can trade crypto twenty
four seven for instance, because he you know, when he
was when he was kind of getting into investing many
many years ago. You know, you couldn't you know, markets closed,
you know, the market closed at at three pm or
five pm or wherever it was, and that was it.

(01:03:19):
And it was closed over the weekend, if you know,
and if you wanted to, you know, if you wanted
to invest in stocks, you had to call your broker
and all this sort of stuff. And now he looks,
you've got twenty four hour, twenty four seven crypto markets,
you know, three hundred and sixty five days a year.
You've got these platforms, you know that the things like
robin Hood and stuff where you can just buy it
in your pockets. And it feels like, you know, he

(01:03:42):
was he was looking at one and it's just like
it looks kind of like a game, but it's it's
it feels like it's rigged to try and make us
do something, to try and make us act all the time,
to be taking action. And again, this is a kind
of it's a macho thing, isn't it. You know, you know,
you're you're you're a man of action. You're doing something,
taking steps and actually again it's like, don't be afraid

(01:04:05):
to not take steps to be a man of a
man of inaction to do nothing. You know, when you
just said that, it made me think about gambling, because
you know, in the old days, of course, I mean
before the internet. This is an old guy. I remember
this these days before the internet. I mean, to gamble
you had to go to certain states in the US
when those of course being Las Vegas or even on

(01:04:26):
the East Coast. And then of course then you can
start to gamble online. And of course now that they're
moving into it, more states are allowed to do that.
But it's almost the same thing like what you just said.
You know, there's these apps that you can go to
and they take a lot of our time, and it's
almost like, if you really think about it, in these
in these spaces, were really gambling and it's and there's

(01:04:46):
not much difference between gambling here and gambling in Las
Vegas and putting all your all your money on eighteen black,
and so to get away from that is a it's
pretty hard to do, and I can see why people
get into it. Yeah, it's and I remember sort of
one of the most pervasive things in the UK that
I've noticed in recent years. I don't know if you

(01:05:07):
have it over there, rob But you know, gambling has
evolved now that you know, you used to bet on
the outcome of other football match. Say that's that's that's
I think the best example football, I mean football is
in you know, soccer, soccer. But yeah, you used to
bet on the outcome of a football match. Is it

(01:05:27):
going to be win, lose or draw? And now it's evolved.
Obviously the Internet has enabled this, but you can people
will bet on the number of free kicks, on the
number of red cards, what time the next goal is
going to be scored, how many corner kicks. You know,
there seems to be no end of things that you

(01:05:50):
can bet on. And apparently I talk to people who
you know, I talk to people of my father's generation
who would go to football matches. I'm not a big
kind of football match a football fan, but you know,
these guys would go and you know, everyone would kind
of watch the game. You'd be you'd be fixated on
the game happening in front of you. And now apparently

(01:06:12):
the stands are full of younger guys who are half
watching the game and half watching their phone and betting
on what the seeing and the you know, these older guys,
these kind of veterans are just just like what has happened?
This is crazy? Yeah, and that's and that's the world
we live in now. Whoever would have thought that the

(01:06:35):
new drug it wouldn't be some some synthetic or fence
and all or or crack, you would be right here.
It will be in our hand twenty four seven, three
sixty five, and it will be socially acceptable. That's a
crazy thing. And with adverts on TV and you know
it's encouraged. It's it's on billboards everywhere. You know, you

(01:06:56):
smoking is bad now, but but gambling, you know, it
just hadn't it hasn't caught up. It's it's so out
of sync. And yeah, it's it's a it's a crazy
it's a crazy, crazy time. And that new drug is dopamine,
isn't it. You know, they figured out, they figured out
how to how to make make people's bodies release dopamine
and got us all hooked on it. I mean, it's

(01:07:17):
it's it's one of the great it's the great con
of the twenty first century. You could argue, this is
why I get out every so often and do those
you know, we did this a charity appsil of course
for kids, and I get to go out there and
work outside new construction things like that, And that's my
dopamine detox. Do it twice a year and it works
out great because if not, unfortunately, Twitter will always be

(01:07:39):
beckoning me saying, read this, tweet, tweet this out, check
this out. And of course here we go again. Be
sure it'sn't time to post. You haven't posted in a while.
What's happening. Haven't you got anything to say? Oh man,
it's bad news. Yeah yeah, And I mean that's what

(01:07:59):
you say about the you know, going out and going
out and doing these obstacle courses for kids, you know,
getting out in the fresh air. That leads me to
the kind of the last thing that I wanted to
the thing that I wanted to kind of sign off
on Rob was this idea. And this is something I've
talked about before as well. But market conditions are really
tough at the moment, all those things you were talking about,
all those potential black swans lurking out there. You know,

(01:08:21):
the world feels a pretty dangerous, mad and insecure place
right now. But I think, I think again, it's so
important is it not to to to realize that there's
nothing you can do about that, and that you have
to you know, your responsibility as as an investors, as
a person is to is to try and not let

(01:08:44):
this stuff get on top of you. If you look
at the news and you look at what's going on,
it's a pretty bleak time frame. But what can we control?
So we take a look and say, and I always
say this to myself, give me the power and understand
and the things that I can control and not control,
and the knowledge to distinguish between the two. And if

(01:09:05):
I can understand that that I can say, okay, I
can deal with this, because this is the thing that's
within my realm of control. I can't do anything for Ukraine.
I can't you go over there and conduct peace talks.
I can't deal with the Nord stream sabotage and the
rising electricity costs. I can't deal with what's going on

(01:09:27):
in the crypto market as it plummets or the old
course sideways or it goes up. I can't control that. However,
I can have a plan of action the things that
I can control and just kind of go from there.
And if I can, if I'm okay with that, then
then I can kind of it leads to a little
bit more mental health. I don't have to deal with
so many things. So yeah, but that's a big thing.

(01:09:48):
What can you control? What can you can not control?
I can't control lot of things. It's just a little
small spear I have. Only Elon Musk can control things. Apparently,
only Elon Musk can can broak a peace in Ukra
apparently according to him. But yeah, and and with a tweet,
that's what's crazy. This guy is everywhere. Yeah, yeah, I
think that that just sums up what a what a

(01:10:09):
crazy world we're living in at the moment, isn't it.
Where Elon Musk is kind of positioning himself as a
kind of diplomat statesman sort of guy. It's yeah, folks,
you can't control that sort of world, So don't even try.
Don't even try, exactly, Rob, This has been a real pleasure.
It's always it's always great talking to you. You have

(01:10:31):
such good advice, you have so much wisdom, and it's yeah,
I love I love just kind of spending time chatting
about all all things crypto and beyond with you. It
really is an absolute pleasure to have you on. So
thank you so much for joining us today. Guy is
always a pleasure, and we've got to get together soon.
I don't know when the next event is, but I'll

(01:10:51):
be there. Yeah, I hope so, I hope so. And
folks for all you listening, Yeah, Rob's everything Rob said
should have spoken for itself today. He is a wonderful
a wonderful person to have in your life, so please
do follow him. Check out his YouTube channel, Digital Asset
News YouTube dot com, forward Slash Digital Asset News. Rob

(01:11:13):
your you're a great Twitter as well at news asset
So follow Rob on Twitter two and he's got an
excellent website to Dan Dan teaches Crypto dot com Digital
Asset News. Dan teaches Crypto dot Com. Rob, do do
I need to give any other shout out? So you
any other platforms I need to let people know about.
Just know that the website, it's the it's the best

(01:11:35):
information I can put together that i've qum throughout the years.
And it's one hundred percent free. It's free right now,
It'll it'll be free tomorrow. It's always free. So just
go there and check it out and then share it
with your friends. They can learn. That's the whole point
of that, I don't. I just felt like if I charge,
there's people around the world they can't afford it, So
just come by and check it out for free. Sometimes

(01:11:56):
the best things in life are free, folks. Yeah, do
check that out. It's a wonder website. Rob, Thank you
so much. This has been an absolute pleasure. Thanks Gay
I'll see. Yeah, thank you so much for listening to
the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like to learn more
about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube channel at YouTube
dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You can also go
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(01:12:18):
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