A Post-Merge Post-Mortem

After previewing Ethereum’s merge event last week, it’s time to look back on the big day and see where it’s left us. Is the post-merge world any different from the world of proof of work Ethereum?

 

Happily the merge went to plan and there were no issues - the sense of relief was palpable. Less happily, the euphoria that followed the merge evaporated in the blink of an eye. The gloomy economic situation that the world economy finds itself in has not gone away and these pressures continue to press down hard on the crypto market. Not even one of the most seismic events in the history of computing could change that fact. 

 

So, there’s bad news and good news to be aware of. In the latter category, rising interest rates, untamed inflation, continuing geopolitical tensions and war are just a few that spring to mind. Crypto also faces its own unique threats. The SEC considers all cryptos bar Bitcoin’s BTC to be securities, while there are also concerns around proof of stake Ethereum’s vulnerability to regulatory capture and even protocol-level censorship. Worrying times.

 

But, it’s not all bad. The investment case for ETH has been strengthened by the success of the merge and - long term - investors will look more favourably on it. The massive reduction in electricity usage, as well as ETH’s future as a deflationary asset, are both enormous positives. And, there are further improvements in the work, being undertaken by a team of developers who have more than proven their expertise. 

 

So, as the merge recedes in the rear-view mirror, why not join us for one last look back, before we turn our gaze once more to the future? It may look rough, but better times lie beyond the horizon. 

 

We hope you enjoy the show.

 

Executive Producer for iHeartMedia: Noel Brown

Editor: Sam Moult

Theme music composed by: Noel Brown

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Coin Bureau podcast is a production of I heart radio,
and I think a big theme of the coming few
years really is how do these how do these crypto projects, decentralize?
How do you put decentralization into action, because I think
that's one of the you know, that's one of the
only ways that these that these projects, can keep themselves
safe from from regulations. Welcome everyone to the Coin Bureau podcast.

(00:35):
My name is guy and this gentleman's name is Mad
Mike Mooch the third. Welcome back, Mad Mike moned the third.
It's good to see you. Sir. I am still here
in Sunny Dubai, where it is thirty eight degrees Celsius,
a very mild thirty eight degree Celsius by by Dubai standards,

(00:55):
and you are back in your man Cave in London.
How is how is London? What's the mood like? What's
what's the old weather like? It's it's the same, you know.
We've got some sunshine but freezing cold temperatures. The Queen
is still dead. No undertaker, sort of last minute sort
of resurrection. We're all getting on with life and it's

(01:17):
all going okay. I mean things are pretty much the same,
unlike maybe the world of Crypto, with some big changes
have happened. But an absolutely beautiful segue. I really admire that.
That's wonderful. Yeah, a lot has yeah, things are very
different from the last time we spoke. Obviously, last week
we did our episode, are kind of on the hoof

(01:40):
episode where we looked ahead to the merge, to ethereums merge,
and this week we're going to look back on ethereums
merge and and see kind of what the landscape is.
What's changed, what's going on, what do we need to
be aware of and, I think crucially as well, what
what might be around the corner? Yeah, well, that's that's

(02:01):
what everyone wants to know and we can pontificate on
that and I'm sure people will take advice, but not
financial advice exactly, exactly, because of course it isn't financial advice, Um,
which is, yeah, which is something everyone should remember. Um. So, yeah,
I've I've kind of I made some notes about what

(02:22):
I was going to talk about and I've kind of
divided it up. Part one I'm just going to call
the bad news, because I'm afraid there is a little
bit of bad news. Um, and but don't worry, anyone
listening the good news. Part two is the good news
and then part three is sort of any other business.
So well, let's just start. Let's let's get on with

(02:44):
the bad news, shall we? Well, in fact, we can
start with some good news, which most people will probably
be aware of if they've been paying any sort of
attention to crypto over the last well, since since last Thursday. Basically,
the merge all went to plan and nothing, nothing went wrong.
And so far nothing, nothing really has gone wrong with

(03:05):
ethereum itself, which is which is great. Um, no portals
to the other world have been opened or anything like that,
certainly certainly not that fatalk or any of the other
devs are admitting to. I don't think they opened up
a gate of Hell beneath beneath the ethereum foundation or
anything like that. But but I mean, you know, they may.

(03:27):
They may just be keeping that one under wraps. So
that's not the bad news. So yeah, and it was.
I don't I'm I I don't know if you were
sort of paying attention at the time, Mikey. Obviously I
was kind of glued to my laptop. I was watching
it via a live stream from the ethereum foundation, and

(03:49):
I mean talk about Geek Central. It was. It was
absolutely wonderful. It was a great thing to watch. It
was it was kind of weird because, you know, everyone's
there's there's quite a lot. There were quite a lot
of devs on the on the Stream. Vitilt himself cropped
up a couple of times, which was really cool. And Yeah,
all of a sudden the block was the block was
pushed and, you know, the block was created, the code

(04:12):
was pushed and we would switch to proof of stake.
It was and they had some little pandas appear, because
the Etherean community are very fond of pandas. Yeah, so
it all went it all went smoothly and you could
really sense watching the stream. You know, you could really
sense the relief kind of flooding through all these people

(04:32):
because they, yeah, they looked very tired. They'd obviously been,
you know, working really, really hard for days, weeks, months,
years on end really to to kind of get this,
get this thing over the line. And Yeah, it was
it was impossible not to feel sort of really really
happy for them because, yeah, they deserved it. It was

(04:52):
it was a really monumental effort and yeah, it's. And
there was this kind of brief sort of surge of
optimism in the crypto markets, which we haven't seen really since,
since the bullmarket ended, and I was kind of keeping
half an eye on prices, you know, I was trying
to get work done, but I slipped into that bad
habit that so many of us crypto people have, sort

(05:15):
of refreshing the price charts every two minutes or so. Um, well,
we've all been there. But it was it was exciting
to see. I mean I I didn't expect it to last,
but it was. It was kind of good to see
this little sort of relief rally and obviously the price
started shooting up as well as, you know, kind of
crypt the market in general. It was it made a nice,

(05:38):
nice change from sort of recent weeks. Um, however, that
that relief rally didn't last all that lot. It was
it was, you know, two or three hours or so,
maybe not even that. And Yeah, things started, things started
tumbling back downward and it was obviously, you know, what
what those in in investment circles call a kind of

(06:00):
sell the news event. You know, you buy the rumor
and then you sell the news, and I think the
ethereum merge may go down as one of the classics
sell the news events in Crypto. Um, because, yeah, it's
it's kind of looking at it's, you know, looking at
it a few days onwards, it seems now like the
merge was kind of a bit of a short break

(06:22):
from reality and then, you know, after a couple of hours,
reality sort of sidled back into the room and went right.
Probably just raising a point before, seconds before you do,
but didn't as soon as the merge happened. Proof of
steak get basically hinted that it was going to be
anything that does that is going to be a security. Now. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah,

(06:46):
I was. Yeah, you're on the ball today, sir. Yeah,
because at the same time that the merge was happening,
the Chairman of the SEC, Gary Gensler, who's sort of,
I guess, Krypto's biggest bogey man at the moment, he
was actually testifying in Washington and here he said, you know,
he he pretty much said that he and, Um, you know,

(07:09):
the SEC, by extension, believe that the proof of state
cryptocurrencies could be designated as securities. And the timing on
that is that malicious. It's hard to imagine otherwise, I think.
I mean it may just be it may just be
a coincidence. There seems to have been quite quite a
few coincidences kind of knocking around the crypto space at

(07:30):
the moment. But this, this seemed to be this seemed
to be a curious coincidence perhaps, but yeah, it could
it could well have been deliberate, um, but yeah, so
that was that kind of that kind of hit the
markets a little bit. I'll talk about that in a
moment because actually the what was more consequential had actually

(07:51):
taken place the day before, because on the Wednesday, um,
so less than kind of twenty four hours before before
the merge was due, the latest inflation figures, the consumer
price index, the CPI, came out in the US, and
it wasn't all that good. It was it was it
showed eight point three percent inflation over in the states. Now,

(08:14):
this is actually this was actually down a couple of
points from the previous months. So these were the inflation
figures for August. So they were slightly lower than the
inflation figures have been for July, which does kind of
suggest that inflation, you know, maybe starting to go down
a little bit. But you know, everyone was kind of

(08:36):
everyone was kind of hoping that they'd be a lot
lower than that. So that, if you like, you know,
before the merge it even happened, that the sort of
wider world that you know, the global macro landscape, had
sort of, you know, poked its head round the door
and sort of said, you know, I'm still here, things
are still really worry we're all still fucked M it. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Um. So, yeah,

(09:03):
so that kind of that really dampened enthusiasm in the
markets that that kind of took any winds that there
was out of the sales. And I should also point
out that that that the core CPI, which is the
same measure but excludes energy and food, that actually went
up by over half a percentum. Yeah, and that is

(09:24):
that is not good news at all. So basically, inflation
in the US, in in case anyone had missed it,
is still really, really high. And this means that the
Federal Reserve, which meets, we're recording this on Tuesday, so
the Federal Reserve will meet tomorrow, on Wednesday one. This

(09:45):
is going to be their first meeting since there, since
they all went off on their on their summer break,
and they are going to hike interest rates again. And Yeah, previously,
you know, a few weeks ago, the EXPECTA Asian was
that they probably hike it by hike them by half
a percent, fifty basis points. Actually, it now looks much

(10:07):
more likely that they're going to hike it by three
quarters of a percent, seventy five basis points. So, yeah,
you know, it's interest rates are going to have another big,
big pump. And actually there is, you know, a more
than there's about a kind of eighteen chance at the
moment as we record this, that they could actually hike

(10:29):
it a full one percent. That doesn't seem to be
off the table now. If they hiked rates a full
one percent, yeah, that would not be markets, especially Crypto,
but you know, kind of all markets would really, you know,
would really soil, soil the sheets, because a one percent
rate hike would be the largest in forty years, which

(10:53):
is a pretty, yeah, pretty sobering thought really. So, yeah,
it really Um basically the kind of the the outlook
at the moment, what everyone's kind of looking towards is
that we're that we are going to see a big
old drop across all markets, and some people are actually
predicting that it could be even worse than the drop

(11:15):
that we saw in two thousand and eight, after the
after the finite, in the wake of the financial crisis. So, yeah,
it's it's not too cheerful from that perspective. I'm afraid
a lot of people are, you know, are really kind
of bracing themselves for for more pain. Well, I'm enjoying

(11:37):
these sessions each week where where we we, we, we
call each other, you tell us how life is going
to be even worse. Uh, and then and then we we,
we sign off on a sort of cheery note and
then it gets worse next week again. So great for
next week when when the sun is extinguished. So yeah,

(12:03):
so the giant meteorite heading towards that. That has kind
of really that has really got that sped up worried.
Now due Wednesday. Yeah, we've now got a definite date
for that. That's impact. I mean. Is this? Is this?
Is this not just reminiscent of the of the eighties? Wasn't?
Didn't we have se interest rates or something like that

(12:24):
in the eighties or something like that? Yeah, back in
the seventies. Yeah, yeah, so that was that's kind of
fame and that that era is getting talked about a
lot at the moment, obviously because, you know, we're seeing
we're starting to see comparable levels of inflation. And actually,
back in the back in the seventies, the the chairman
of the Federal Reserve was a chap called Paul Volca,

(12:48):
and his name is cropping up a lot in, you know,
in the kind of financial, financial media at the moment
because he hyped rates to around tw to to get
that inflation under control. Um, now, for context, we're we're
not we're we're sort of, you know, pushing towards the
three percent level. We're we're kind of hovering around there
at the moment. So there's there's lots of upside for

(13:12):
for interest rates. Unfortunately, Um, it remains to be seen whether,
you know, whether we'll whether we'll get anywhere near that figure.
I think things will have to get really pretty bad
for rates to go that high. But I mean, you know,
the Fed and other central banks have, you know, our
hiking rates a lot now. I think I think there's

(13:32):
due to be another one in the UK, maybe even tomorrow,
at the same time that the Fed is is hiking rates.
The the European Central Bank the ECB there hiking rates now.
You know, the higher interest rates are just going to
be a thing for you know, for the next few,
possibly years. So that's that's something too. That's something to

(13:54):
look forward to. Um. Yeah, so kind of already ahead
of the merge, there were there were concerns, there were
you know, there were things weighing on the market. So
the merge came, it was a success. The market's kind
of pumped a little bit in, you know, as if
to kind of acknowledge that, and then they started crashing again,
and I mean they are still crashing. Let's just have

(14:16):
a quick look at the child. Like yesterday seems to
be a bit of a dip and it's gone up
a little bit today. Um, that's my scientific look at it.
That's your technical analysis done. Yeah, it is up a
little bit today. Yeah, that's true. Bitcoin, Bitcoin and Etherorum
are both up over three percent today, but I mean

(14:36):
they're both still, oh yeah, yeah, massively down, especially especially etherorum.
ethereums down over on the week. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, Bitcoin,
Bitcoin is below twenty k which is you know that
that's a that's a twenty K is is a fairly

(14:58):
sort of strong psychology call support level for for Bitcoin
ethereum is kind of around thirteen and a half K
as we record this Um, but I think there's a
lot more. There's a lot more downside for both which
will which we'll talk about a little later on. I
think another thing worth pointing out so that you know
we're now sort of moving post events, post merge. So

(15:21):
there was a lot of expectation that institutions would kind
of start piling into ethereum, you know, buying up eas
once it's once it got, you know, whence it went
green and its electricity consumption dropped. And Yeah, that that
did not happen. Um. Now I think there are I
think there are probably a few reasons for this. I
think possibly it's it's a case institutions are sort of like, well,

(15:45):
I think we're just going to wait a little longer
and see that everything really is okay, because I think
that's I think that's a wise moved, really very imprudent,
I think. I think also it's just kind of representative
of what's going on again in the wider markets. If, if, if, if,
interest rates are going up in markets are about to tank,

(16:05):
people are not investing exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's it's it's
a time, I think, to be very much sitting on
the sidelines and waiting to get a better picture of
of where markets are going. Because, yeah, I think everyone,
as I said earlier, so many people, are expecting a
big old crash across the board. So, yeah, why would you?

(16:27):
Why would you be investing now? Why would you be
buying up stuff now if you think it's going to
be much, much cheaper in a few yeah, exactly. So
I think they're doing that. There is a kind of
general trend towards just holding mostly dollars at the moment
because risky, risky investments just aren't too popular when when

(16:47):
interest rates are high, people, people want to have cash
on hand in order to pay down debts and things
like that. So yeah, there's that. There's been a lot
of selling going on in order to get into dollars
and also, yeah, not much buying. So so that's something
I think you know that kind of that expectation was
was snuffed out pretty quickly, and I think also there's

(17:10):
a there's a sense that the institutions are waiting for
some regulatory clarity as well, and this is tied into
what you were saying, you know, about at the at
the very time the merge was happening, the chairman of
the SEC was making these comments that he believes could
be a security. And again, I think if you were
if you were a, you know, a large institution or

(17:30):
or any kind of investor, you would want to have
a better idea of what the regulatory landscape is going
to look like, because you don't want to buy, you know,
buy up an asset and then find that you've unwittingly
bought an unregistered security or something like that. That would
that would not be good. So yeah, those, uh, those
are those are some of the reasons why why, you know,

(17:53):
ethereum hasn't done so well post merge and again, the
kind of wider crypto market as well. And Yeah, the
the the SEC thing is quite worrying and in fact
we've had a bit of a we've had another development
on that front just in the past twenty four hours
or so. News just breaking. Yeah, this is very much
the news coming in over the wires. So yeah, so

(18:14):
first of all, obviously, yeah, Gary Ginster, the SEC chairman,
he views as a security because he argues that there
is an identifiable person or entity behind it driving the
expectation of profit, and this is this is key to
how the SEC evaluates whether an asset is a security
or not, and it's it's this thing, the how we test,

(18:34):
which I think I might have talked about before. But
there's a fourth criterion on it which says that an
asset is a security if there is an identifiable third
party driving the expectation of profit. So if you were,
you know, if you were buying a stock, if you're
buying a stock in Tesla, say, then that third party is,
you know, Tesla the company, or you know, Elon Musk

(18:56):
or you know anything like that. It's pretty easy to identify.
Now the argument with ethereum has been that it's, quote unquote,
sufficiently decentralized. This is what a former SEC officials said
about ethereum a few years ago and we've kind of
assumed since then that would be safe from a security

(19:16):
securities classification. But that doesn't seem to be the case
and I think Um Gary Ginsler's argument is that. Well,
someone like fatal, I say, or the ethereum foundation or
the ETHEREUM DEV team, you know, these are these, to him,
are identifiable third parties driving the expectation of profit. And also,
surely if they if they hold a lot of e,

(19:39):
then it's not decentralized. Do you know what I mean?
Like that's the whole the whole proof of steak thing
is it's kind of okay, cool, those who've got the
cash have got the power and can be leaned on
and can be influential. Yeah, yeah, there are certainly a
lot of a lot of centralization concerns around around ethereum is. Actually,

(20:00):
now that it's that it's moved to proof of stake,
what's for Tarlic and crude? I thought they were kind
of pushing to be less less of a focal point around. How? How?
How is that happening? Well, this is I mean this
is something that's common with a lot of crypto projects
now and you know, some, some have woken up to
it pretty pretty Um, you know, in a big way,

(20:24):
like Polka dot's a good example. So the guy who
the guy who founded polka dot, Gavin Wood, who was
one of the founders of ethereum as well. He has
basically spent most of his time over the past year
or so trying to decentralize Polka dot more because he has,
you know, he has very much read the way the
wind is blowing. Um. So yeah, I mean it's it's

(20:45):
a difficult thing because how do you disassociate yourself? How
do you as as say that the potemic figure of
the project, like well, Gavin Wood is still polka dot really,
and vitarlk certainly is for ethereum. How do you kind
of distance yourself from it and and how do you
argue that you don't have any kind of influence on

(21:05):
on the price of ether or the price of DART
or whatever it might be? Um. And it's I think
it's a difficult thing to do. You know, vital it
can argue. He's like, well, you know, I can't. I
can't push code on my own, I can't decide on
particular updates or anything like that. You know, it has
to be it has to be a decision taken among
the entire team. Um. But I mean you could still

(21:28):
argue that Vitali could just, you know, he could take
to twitter and and and move the markets because that,
you know, people listen to him like that. So it's
it's a difficult thing and there's lots of stuff going
on behind the scenes. You know, if Um, ethereum. Sort
of most crypto projects, I sort of you know, have
a nonprofit, usually based in Switzerland, that sort of coordinates

(21:50):
their development, quote unquote. So's it's just a testament to
to the for D chess of yeah, like like, unless
that was just a coincidence, but he kind of knew right,
I can't be the figurehead for this and just vanished
well before, like decade before any of this was really

(22:15):
coming to come into a head. Yeah, it's very true.
I think that is you know that. That's my personal
theory on it, that whoever Satoshi is or was, took
themselves yeah, realized that that you know, this, this this thing,
can't work if there is an identifiable person, you know,

(22:37):
at the heart of it, if you like, which is
why they you know, they've they've disappeared. I mean you
could argue that perhaps they're they're dead, but I for
one thing that, yeah, that that is that is probably
the most likely explanation. They've kind of removed themselves from
the stage for this very reason, you know, in order
that the project, you know, in this case Bitcoin, has
a life of its own. Can't be can you know,

(22:59):
decent realizes itself. And Yeah, that the difficulty is, how
does something like ethereum and all these other crypto projects,
particularly ones that are proof of steak, how do they
move towards decentralization? It's a it's a very good question.
There are and you know, we don't have, we don't
have all the answers to that yet, which and I
think that's going to be a big theme of the

(23:20):
coming I say year, I mean I think a big
theme of the coming few years really is how do
these how do these crypto projects, decentralize? How do you
put decentralization into action, because I think that's one of
the you know, that's one of the only ways that
these that these projects, can keep themselves safe from from regulations. Yeah, Um,

(23:42):
so it's it's it's an exciting but kind of scary
time for Ethereum, especially from the point of view of
what regulators make of it as well. And then, Um,
I so I alluded earlier to this news that are
kind of just come through. So this is pretty crazy.
I'm gonna I'm going to give you a little bit
of background and then the quote here. So the SEC
um sort of yesterday, yesterday evening in the US, I

(24:06):
think yesterday afternoon. Um, they have charged a kind of
Crypto influencer called Ian Bellina. They've charged him with promoting
unregistered I C O S. now, this goes back. I
think this is from about five years ago or something. Um,
and there's this crazy line in in the filing. I'm

(24:28):
going to quote it here. So this is what the
SEC said and just kind of just kind of bear
this in mind. So this is referring to. Sorry, this
is referring to an investment pool that Ian Berllina started
for for a particular I C O quote. The US
based investors in Bellina's pool irrevocably committed to the transaction when,

(24:48):
from within the United States, they sent their contributions to
Berlina's pool. At that point, their contributions were validated by
a network work of nodes on the ethereum blockchain which
are clustered more densely in the United States than in
any other country. As a result, those transactions took place

(25:13):
in the United States. Okay, that's a that's an interesting
take on it. If they're, you know, how do they
how can they prove where those nodes were Um based?
You can look online. There are various resources online where
you can where, you can see where where nodes are clustered.

(25:37):
So it's it's fairly you know, it's it's fairly easily
obtainable information. Um, but I mean this, this is, you know,
enormous kind of overreach, I think, by the SEC. It's like, well, most,
you know, the majority of ethereum nodes are in the
United States. Therefore ethereum is American. That is that is

(26:00):
pretty that is a pretty large imaginative leap. And is
that something that's going to be the contested in court? Oh, yeah, yeah,
I think Ian Bellina has already as already sort of,
you know, hit back and, you know, denied the claims.
Obviously it's a bit crazy. It's a crazy thing to
see really because, yeah, it's, as I say, it does

(26:23):
kind of smack of overreach. This is something that, you know,
Ian Bellina's lawyers, I think we'll will kind of hone
in on when they you know, if if the case,
if the case comes to court, that that's something that
they'll that they will push back against. But I mean, yeah,
the the implications that are crazy. So I mean let's say,
you know, according to the SEC, then let's say you
and I, let's say I sent you, any transaction from

(26:46):
here in Dubai over there to where you are in London.
You know, because not involving, you know, any U S
entities at all, but in the secs terms, oh well,
because you know most of the validator on the network
or American, you know that transaction falls within our jurisdiction
and because Mad Mike Mooch is on the U S

(27:08):
sanctions list, I have, I have potentially committed a crime
by by interacting with you. You know, I'm I'm violating sanctions. Um, yeah,
I mean that's a you know, it's a bit of
a bit of a far fetched example. Or no, but
it's kind of I kind of get it. It's kind
of I don't get it, but I understand the point

(27:28):
you're making. It's kind of like, okay, cool. Well, if, if,
if you're gambling, if if you are, if you're playing
online poker and the servers that the poker game is
going through are based in America, does that mean you're
gambling in America? No, surely not? Yeah, no, it's very true.

(27:54):
It's very true. It's Um, it's it's a pretty as
you say, it's a pretty bold claim for the SEC
to make and I personally I don't think it will
stand up, personally, but I mean don't show the extent
towards to which the SEC seems to be, you know,
going for Crypto. And one of the reasons I think
it's doing this is because this is something I've kind

(28:16):
of speculated about a few times. But we're coming towards
the end of September and this is also going to
be the end of the SEC's fiscal year and me
and a few few colleagues here at Coinbureau we've kind
of been speculating now that that we can expect to
see a lot of a lot of action taken by

(28:36):
the SEC. Yeah, to try and to try and justify
a bigger budget, in the same way that, you know,
councils always dig up the road towards the end of
the taxia so they spend their entire budget and then
they can argue that they need a bigger one for,
you know, for the next fiscal year. This is this
is something I think the sec is kind of doing
something similar. It's saying, look, you know, we've got all

(28:58):
these actions out against various entities in the crypto space,
but we're going to need more money to fight them all, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
So yeah, so that's that's a concern certainly. Another thing
that I think, you know, it's going to a kind
of way on on the crypto market in general over
thecoming you know, over thecoming weeks and months, Um, and

(29:22):
just too quickly before we before we take a quick
break and move on to some good news, because I
think it's I think we probably need to get in
that sepreaction. Um, there are yeah, going back to these
concerns around centralization, you know, they haven't gone away. So
a good example is the of the first one thousand
blocks validated after the merge, four and twenty of those,

(29:46):
in other words, were validated by, we're validated by coin
base and Lido Finance, so just two large validator entities. Obviously,
coin base is bay in the United States. Lido finance
is a Dow, a decentralized autonomous organization. It's not based
in the United States, but a lot of the vcs

(30:10):
who hold the LD O token, you know, who hold
voting power within the Dow, they are based in the
United States. So you could argue that, you know, of
those first thousand blocks were validated by entities answerable to
US authorities, you know, subject to your US jurisdiction, which

(30:32):
again is pretty worrying and especially worrying when you factor
in these kind of continued concerns around protocol level censorship.
You know that we saw when we when we talked
about the tornado cash sanctions and things like that. Yeah, Hmmm,
how do they do this? Can they just can they
move to Mexico? That could be an option. That could

(30:57):
be an option. Coin Base has actually said that it's
going to, you know, it's going to fight this in court,
which is, you know, which is pretty pretty good going
by coin base. Um. And actually, Brian Armstrong, the coin
based CEO, said, you know, around the time the tornado
cash sanctions were kind of kicking off, he said that,
you know, he would prefer coin base sort of not to,

(31:17):
you know, not to to validate on the network if
it meant if doing so meant that they had to know,
censor transactions. Um. But I mean remember, you know, validating
on ethereum. If you're if you're a big validator, that's
that that's a lucrative business that, you know, you can earn.
You can earn good rewards for that, so we don't
have to see. Because they're public, they're probably gonna need

(31:38):
to to to, you know, be mindful of their shareholders, exactly. Yeah,
they they really have to step into line because, you know, okay,
however much you believe in decentralization, however much you want to,
you know, you don't want to enact protocol level censorship
if you you know, if if you're based in the

(32:00):
US and doing so means you're violating sanctions. As I
said in a previous episode, that's thirty years in jail
or a ten million dollar fine, or possibly both, and
no one is going to risk that. You know, however
however much they they may, you know, they may believe
in decentralization or what have you, no one is going

(32:20):
to is going to willingly violate sanctions unless they're crazy.
So yeah, it's it's it's there's a lot of there's
a lot of headwinds facing ethereum at the moment. There
are a lot of challenges to overcome in the coming
months and and this is this is the case for
ethereum and you know, especially with all the kind of

(32:41):
action that we're seeing from the SEC and others, it's
a case for the whole crypto market as well. So really,
I think, going back to that what I was saying
about an upcoming crash, I think we can definitely expect
lower lows from here. Okay, so just just be aware
of that, my you. On that positive note, shall we

(33:02):
take a quick break? Welcome back everyone, to part two
and the good news. Finally, some good news. Mikey, I

(33:24):
know you were, I know you were sort of you
were worrying whether there was going to be any good news,
whether I just dangled good news in front of you
to try and keep you interested, whilst I just hit
you repeatedly over the head with bad news. I've got
the Good News Air Horn. There we go, good news coming.
It's been too long. It's been too long. Yeah, there

(33:45):
is good news. There's lots of there's lots of good
news around the merge, for instance. Let's start well, first
of all, is going to become a more attractive investment
in the long term. Keywords long and term, because well,
let's let's look at the headline thing, if you like.
Ethereums electricity use is now absolutely minimal. Um Not, and

(34:09):
this is a crazy statistic, I think so. Not only
did ETHEREUM's energy. Energy used declined by Um, but the
merge apparently reduced global electricity consumption by zero point two,
which is yeah, I think that's nuts. Really, that is crazy.

(34:31):
It did make me think as well. Are there many
other industries out there that have addressed their carbon footprint
to the same extent that Crypto has? I mean, you know, people, people,
you know. It's a it's a stick that people use
to beat crypto. We're saying, oh well, it uses all
this energy and stuff like that. The cryptosector can now

(34:51):
turn around and say, well, we've just we've just reduced
our energy used by this much. What's your industry done?
I mean, it made in that we're all violating security sanctions,
but we have reduced energy by we're all going to prison,

(35:12):
but at least the air in the exercise yard will
be nice. No, no, it's, it is, it's, it's it's
very good, it's very noble and it's kind of and
it's it's the way we should be going if possible, while,

(35:32):
you know, keeping the integrity of of the project. So
it is great. It will. It is a long term view.
I think you know, the nerds over ethereum have been
thinking about this, have been concerned about this, have got
a plan where only fifty of the way there now.
Is that right? Yeah, yeah, that was that was metallic statistic.

(35:56):
Ethereum is now apparently complete. Okay. So, and I think
that's kind of good news in a way as well,
because I think a lot of people may have been
sort of looking at the merge and going, well, this
will be, you know, the final transition and it will use,
you know, a negligible amount of electricity and everything we

(36:17):
find and no, we're we've still got a long way
to go and in a way I think that is
that is a good thing, because there's still a lot
of work to be done on ethereum. It looks like
the team are, you know, now very much focused on
on those upcoming stages, which obviously we we talked a
bit about last week. You know that the verge, surge,
your favorite, the purge, and then the SPLURG as well,

(36:41):
which we'll talk about a little later on. But yeah,
I mean this, this energy reduction of Ethereum, I think
is is a wonderful thing and for, you know, a
number of reasons. I think one of the one of
the things that occurred to me was that the argument
that N F T S are bad for the planet
has kind of evaporated like that, which I think that

(37:03):
could open up a lot of a lot of adoption.
I think a lot of artists, musicians, you know, are
the others who are likely, you know, who have a
have a use for N F T s. They are
going to be able to do that in good conscience now.
So that could be. That could but I think the
long term good for the for the network. Yeah, no,
for sure. Yeah, and obviously the the the energy used reduction.

(37:28):
That means that E S G focused firms, they each
is a much, much more attractive proposition for them now
because you know, they're very much they're very much bound
by these E S G concerns. So that gives them,
you know, that gives them an excuse, or or perhaps
you could say one less excuse. Not It removes a
barrier to investment from from them. So you know, it's

(37:51):
it's Um it's attractive, more attractive proposition, which is which
is good, because you want more money in it, you
want more more people adopting it and more technology to
be driven by it. Damn Straight, damn straight, and I
think you know again from an institutional perspective, I think

(38:13):
obviously these these guys do lots of due diligence, you know,
they look into the project, they look at the people
behind the project and stuff, and I think the fact
that the ethereum team managed to pull off this merge,
which really was a big, big deal, you know, and
it was a difficult thing to have done, I think
that investors doing their their due diligence will be able
to look at that team and go these guys clearly

(38:35):
know what they're doing. You know, okay, they look like
they could use a wash and a new wardrobe. I
think that's what you want in a nerd. Like if
a nerd is is too well kept, they're not really
in nerve. They need to have some sort of hot
source on their top. Um, flagrant disregard for for the

(39:00):
their health. B M I. UH, closer to to to
to their age. Uh. And and you know, a receding hairline.
That that's does the tell tell signs of someone who
cares about a project because they have no care about
anything else in their life. Very true. That is that.
That is a good investment philosophy. So yeah, I think again,

(39:22):
long term this is this is going. All these factors
are going to make a much more, much more attractive
asset for for when those institutional investors do actually decide
to ape in, which obviously they didn't in the in
the immediate aftermath of the merch and yeah, going back
to what you were saying, as more people join the network,

(39:43):
as more people invest in ease, as the ethereum network
gets used more, because hopefully more people are minting and
transacting n f t s and things like that, that
means that as the network gets busier, more e is
burned in transaction ease and that means that itself could
become deflationary with enough network activity. And this, as you know,

(40:08):
just as an investment case, that is a is a
huge deal because if the if the supply is decreasing
but the demand is increasing, the price goes up. That's
that's what basically that's what economics one, Oh one, says.
Now you can actually look at this on ultrasound dot money. Issuance.
It's it hasn't gone deflationary yet, but it has slowed

(40:31):
to zero point to one percent since the merge. So
issuance is is very much on the decline. And Yeah,
I think with enough, with enough activity will become deflationary
due to those due to those fee burns. So yeah,
there's also and then we've got these these other upgrades

(40:53):
coming up, verge, surge, purge and splurge, that these are
going to help further decentralize the network. They're going to
make it faster and cheaper to you is Um. They're
going to make it easier to become a validator as well,
and this means that, you know, we could see some
of these, some more of these investors decided to become validators.
That would help further decentralize the network. Ideally, will have

(41:14):
more people joining as validators from outside the United States
so that becomes less regulatory capture from Yah, regulatory capture
by the SEC becomes less of an issue. So yeah,
the next kind of big upgrades is the Shanghai upgrade,
which is set for some time in early three now.

(41:36):
There's going to be some quite technical stuff going on
with that, but it should allow some eth stakers to withdraw,
so some validators will be able to unstake there if
they want to. It should also make some improvements to
gas prices as well. Now this ties into another bit
of good news around the merge, because there was a

(41:57):
lot of concern. Now, this was a bit of a
misconception that suddenly, after the merge, people would be able
to unstake their eath and there would be a flood
of hitting the market and that would not only tank
the price of eight but compromise the security of the network. Now,
this didn't happen because that's not what the merge was about.
But after the Shanghai upgrade next year you will be

(42:22):
some some validators will be able to unstake. But fortunately
the ethereum depths of have anticipated this. So withdrawals of
steak teth are going to be staggered. So they can
you know, they can only be done at a at
a fairly slow pace. So we're not going to see
a kind of mass dumping of steak teeth onto the market,

(42:44):
which would not be not be good for ethereum Um.
And I also think that you know that there was
there was some data released recently that showed a lot
of steak teeth was bought at around the SEV dollar mark. Now,
if we take a look at those prices again, you
know currently hovering around marks. So that would mean that

(43:07):
any validators who did want to to unstake and sell.
They're currently underwater anyway. So you you'd have to ask
like why they would do that. And you know, if
you're a validator, you you know that you're locking up
your eath for for a long, long time. So I
think these concerns that some validators might dump their onto

(43:27):
the market as soon as they can, I think those
are kind of unfounded. I'm sure we I'm sure we
will see a bit of selling, but I don't think
it will be anything, anything near enough to to crash
the price or or really have any noticeable effect on
eath security either. Well, that's good. I mean, I I
it seemed to me as an ignoramers from the outside,

(43:50):
that being if you've got some eath, unless you're day
trading with it, Um, you, if you, if you stake it,
it's just kind of a way of making it make
money for your own money, for you, yeah, passive income.
So it's kind of it's for those savers. It's kind
of stick it there, forget about it. It can. It

(44:12):
can make you a little bit of money and unless
you know it crashes, then just yeah, that's what that's
what it's kind of an investment. Yeah, if you believe
in if you believe in ethereum in the long term,
if you believe that it's a is a viable project
and it's going to it's going to achieve all that

(44:32):
it can all that it promises to, then staking is
a great way of, you know, not only helping secure
the network but also, yeah, earning this earning this passive
income through through staking rewards. Um. So yeah, for me
IT'S A it's a bit of a no brainer really,
if you if you've got a long term view. And again,
this is I think is something that could that could

(44:53):
really help attract bigger investors as well, because big investors
love passive I mean, who doesn't love passive income? Um,
but you know, these guys will, I think, look at
it in the same kind of way that they view
dividends from from certain stocks. You know, it's like okay,
it's it's worth having, it's worth having capital locked up
for a long period of time because we get this,

(45:16):
you know, we get this drip feed of income in
the form of dividends or like a government bond. Yeah,
it's the same. Yeah, it's the same reason why why people, yeah,
invest in bonds because, yeah, you put a large you
put a large sum down, you lock up liquidity, in
other words, but you you earn interest on it over
over a slower period and obviously the great thing about
bonds is that you can, you know, you get that

(45:38):
money back that you've invested as well after after a
fixed term, after the term of the of the bond
has expired. So, yeah, it makes a good case case
for as an asset to earn passive income with which again,
I think is going to make it a much more
attractive long term investment. So that is yeah, that is

(46:03):
some of that is some of the good news post merge.
And Yeah, maybe maybe not quite as again, this is
something we're going to have to not only kind of
wait a long time for, we're just going to have
to we we don't we don't really know how how
the next few months are going to play out. I mean,
as I say, we've got a pretty good idea that

(46:25):
we're you know, we're going to see lots of regulatory action.
We're also likely to see a crash in asset prices
across the board and we're also like to see more
inflation and all this sort of stuff. So this good
news is something that you've kind of got to park
for the time being and and look ahead to look
quite a long way ahead too, sort of brighter days

(46:46):
in the future. Well, Um, I can't wait for next week.
How patient are you feeling? Like you you're you're not,
are you? Are you a patient man? I I'm a
lazy man. I think that's the most important thing to remember. So, like,
I'm not going to be selling or shipping anything because

(47:08):
I can't be bothered. Um, and you know, it's it's
it's a way out. I think it'll be fine. I mean,
unless you know you need a new kidney and you
have to buy one off the black market, then then
sell your eath. Okay, I should also point out that
that is not financial advice. Let's take even worse. Guy

(47:33):
On a podcast said that I had to sell my
kidney anyhow. Let's take one more quick break and then
we'll just kind of look ahead to what else. You know,
I look at a couple of other things that are
having post merged. Welcome back everyone. Part three. We've had

(48:01):
the bad news, we've had the good news, and now
for kind of any other business. The News, the ugly news.
You forgot the last news was bad. Wait, did you
see this Um? Yeah, I suppose, the ugly news. Yeah,
that's that's a good term for it. The other question
I kind of wanted to address that some people have
been asking is, like what happened to this proof of
work fork of ethereum that everyone was kind of lots

(48:25):
of people were getting kind of out this idea that
ethereum minor because remember that some of the big some
of the biggest losers from from the merge have been
ethereum miners because, yeah, their main source of revenue is
now gone and there's been a lot of speculation about
what ethereum miners would do post merge. And again, actually,

(48:46):
I think that kind of also ties into some of
the some of the bad news or some of the
some of the reasons why ethereum especially kind of struggled
price wise in the days after the merger, because there
was a lot of data are saying that in the
lead up to the merge, exchange inflows of were really high.
So what that meant was that lots of people were

(49:07):
moving their too exchanges. Now there's only one reason generally
why people do this, or one big reason, and that
is in anticipation of selling it. So what we what
we think is that a lot of ethereum miners kind
of sold straight after the merge, you know, especially when
that when when that little price pump went on Um,

(49:31):
and that may have been them kind of capitulating. That
may have been them just kind of selling all their
all their assets and just getting out of the of
the mining business altogether or, you know, just selling a
lot to kind of cover their costs and advance things
like that. So that that, I think, is another reason
why the price uh tanked in in the days following

(49:51):
the merge. So eth miners have kind of gone and
done a few things. Some of them are mining other coin,
other proof of work coins, of which there aren't an
enormous amount. There's one called Raven coin, which has attracted
quite a lot of you know, it's a Hash Ray
to shut up Um. There's one called Ergo, which is

(50:12):
kind of affiliated with Charles Hoskinson, who's the guy who
found the founder of Cardano, which is obviously a rival
to ethereum Um, and used to and was one of
the ethereum co founder as well. He was the guy
who was sort of CEO for a while until until
he was booted out. So his sort of little side
project ERGO. That's attracted a bit of Hash power from

(50:35):
from ethereum miners. But there was also this proof of
work fork. So Um, that was something that a lot
of people were kind of worried about. The ticker for
that is e w e. t e. w. Now this
has kind of struggled really since the merge. It hasn't
attracted all that much interest. There were a few setbacks

(50:56):
for the networks as well. It suffered something called a
relay attack, something, not a replay attack, Um, and it's
it's now down. W is down sort or more from
its all time high earlier in September, you know, kind
of ahead of the merge. So yeah, it's it doesn't
seem to be gaining much traction. It doesn't seem to

(51:17):
be gaining an awful lot of support and, as you know,
as a lot of people have pointed out, like why
would it? We have ethereum classic already, that fork, that
proof of work fork of ethereum from from the Dow Hack,
which I think we mentioned in advance of the merge
as well. So that's another I don't think that the

(51:37):
proof of work fork thing doesn't it's still it's still going.
It's still a thing, but it doesn't really appear to
have played out and I don't think it's going to be.
I don't think it's going to have any sort of
real effect going forward. Okay, well, I feel for them.
I do feel for the miners. Yeah, yeah, no, it's

(52:00):
it's tough, isn't it? It's Um. Yeah, you've got to
have some sympathy for them and stuff like that. It's
they are, they are a big kind of casualty of
the move to proof of steake Um. But yeah, Crypto,
like any other business, can be ruthless sometimes, can't it?
M Hm. Okay, so let's what let's kind of let's conclude.

(52:23):
So there's lots to look forward to for ethereum and
Crypto in general, but there's lots to be concerned about
two Um. And I think the important thing perhaps to
remember for for anyone, you know, all the listeners, is
the bear market is going to continue for some time
to come and, as you said, it could get a
lot worse. Bear markets tend to, you know, they can

(52:45):
last for a long time, and I think really the
kind of, in a way, kind of good news is
that this, this is a bear market that has been
driven by much more kind of much more general factors.
It's not a crypto specific bear market, even though there are,
you know, particular there are kind of unique challenges facing
the crypto sector, especially from centralization and especially from regulators

(53:09):
like the SEC. This is still this is still a
global problem. You know, global markets are are struggling with
this as well. So, although it's although we've got a
long time of it left, it will, it will come
to an end. And well, there was a bit of
good news. I don't know if you saw this, but
there a few days ago the chief of the World

(53:32):
Health Organization said that the pandemic could, the end of
the pandemic could in fact be in sight. I thought
it already was. Yeah, well, quite possibly. Yeah, yeah, no,
the pandemic is still is still a thing, but according
according to the World Health Organization, we could be, we
could be about to see the end of that, which

(53:55):
would be yeah, that would be great. I don't think
anyone would anyone would be sad to the best. How
are things going to improve? What is gonna what? What?
What are we going to see? Is it gonna be gradual,
improved is. It is if, if there is a ceasefire
in the Ukraine, if if the pandemic is kind of
slowly coming to an end and China stops this uh,

(54:19):
this national citywide lockdowns, and production is going to start, Um,
happening a bit more in and and and ships with
full of goods are going to come out of China
and across the world's sort of like as a catalyst
for the economy. ARE PEOPLE GOING TO START IF inflation

(54:40):
rates go down, how long is that gonna last? Is
gonna last six months? Is gonna last a year? What? What?
What are? What are your thoughts on all of this?
When is the end of the tunnel happening? It's a
good question. It's a good question and I think a
lot of it is tied in with these with these
interest rate hikes, because obviously the the driving factor behind

(55:01):
those is high inflation. Um, now, when when interest rate
gets high, interest rates get hiked, they take a while
for the impact to be felt. Um, it can, you know,
it can be a few months down the line that
you know that you feel that you get a you
know you get a sense that interest rate hikes are
making a difference. So, yeah, in terms of time. I

(55:24):
mean I think probably. I think three is going to
be another tough year, but I would hope that by
the end of next year we could we could be
starting to see, I suppose, what you'd call green shoots.
You know, hopefully by then inflation is, if not under control,

(55:44):
you know, is starting to noticeably decline. These high interest
rates are starting to have the desired effect. Um and,
as you say, sort of by that point you would
hope that trade has resumed somewhat, certainly that the war
in Ukraine has come to end. I mean, we seem
to have that seemed that situation, I think, seems to
have kind of improved slightly over the last couple of

(56:08):
weeks or so, because Ukraine is actually doing quite well,
you know, they they've actually pushed the Russians back a lot. Um.
I don't think that means that the end of the
war is in sight, but it could say. I think
it certainly suggests that it's a war Ukraine could win
and that, you know, that an end could come. But yeah, so,

(56:32):
I mean I think in answer to your question how
long we can expect, I think we've got another know,
another year of this at least, but I would hope
that by, you know, sort of early four a lot
of these a lot of these problems would have been,
you know, will have reduced a lot. Will hopefully have
much lower inflation. The situation in Ukraine hopefully, you know,

(56:52):
hopefully peace will have will have been restored. Um, and obviously, yeah,
as pandemic restrictions. You know, if the pandemic really has gone,
really is brought to an end, then then, yeah, manufacturing
cranks back up, it should be. It should be noted
actually at this point that if, if the pandemic is
kind of officially, you know, officially declared over, it could

(57:16):
actually have a negative effect on markets because some people
are speculated that because of these Chinese lockdowns at the moment,
because so much of China is on the lockdown still. Um,
this has manufacturing output there. Remember China. I mean it
makes pretty much everything. Manufacturing output has actually been way
down in China. Now. If manufacturing in China suddenly restarts,

(57:38):
the demand for energy from that will be massive and
obviously energy is a big, big problem at the momentum.
Energy shortages and rising energy prices are one of the
big drivers of inflation and, you know, unrest as well.
Around the world. So it might be that the end
of the pandemic isn't quite the isn't quite the sort

(57:58):
of White Swan that that we might have hoped for.
But I think still by their energy mostly from Russia,
though I think China gets a lot of its energy
from Russia. But I mean in this sort of situation
it doesn't really matter where particular countries get their energy from,
because all that really matters is that because, because we

(58:21):
live in such a globalized world, shortages somewhere, shortages, let's
say the energy shortages in Europe, have an effect on
global prices because the commodity, that the amount of the
commodity in circulation, has dropped thereby the price goes up.
So this is why, you know, when people say, oh well,
you know these these energy these energy concerns are, you know,

(58:44):
their Europe's problem. There there's something between Europe and Russia.
It's it's not the case prices go up across the
world because there's less energy to go around. But there's
not less energy. The reason why there's an energy sorted
is because of the sanctions. I thought that. So like
Russia has still got the gas. They're just not we're
not able to buy it because they're being rascals. Yeah, yeah, certainly. Yeah,

(59:12):
so that sounds like. This is my sort of trying
to just figure it out and understand. Okay, cool, or
if if China comes back online and and and starts
making stuff again, if they buy their it's not good
for the war in Ukraine, because the sanctions mean less
Um and and. But I assumed basically people. I thought

(59:33):
we were buying Russian oil from India anyway, not Russian
gas from India. That's what I was I was told,
you know, because we're buying gas from India now and
they're buying it from Russia, and it's just, HMM, yeah,
it just gets it just goes through different sources now,
I think. Yeah, I mean the sanctions are the sanctions
are a big, big you know, the main reason why

(59:53):
there are these these energy shortages because Russia isn't able
to export so much of its gas or its oil,
Um and, I mean, look, you know again, this is
this is something, this is something to to think about
in in terms of the future because, let's say, let's
say the war in Ukraine comes to an end, let's
say because of the way it's going at the moment
that Ukraine is actually Ukraine actually wins, that the West

(01:00:17):
is prepared to keep pumping enough money and weapons and
all that stuff, sort of stuff into Ukraine to actually
to actually mean they're able to kick the Russians out
and the war comes to an end. What happens with
Russia then, you know, do do do Western countries? Does
Europe and America turn around and go, okay, well, you
take the L Putin will lift the sanctions now because

(01:00:40):
the war is is over. You know, I don't think that.
I can't see that happening. I think the only way
that we could see sanctions lifted is if, is if
Russia voluntarily pulled out, you know, and said look, well,
we're sorry, it won't happen again. Let's let's all be
friends and let's start trading against stuff. Can you see
that happen, because I I certainly can't. So, you know,

(01:01:03):
there's perhaps perhaps this idea of sort of looking further
along the line and thinking, when is everything going to
get back to how it was? It won't, you know,
things are going to be very, very different, and already
there's a lot of talk about food and energy independence,
because this, you know this. This war and this sanction

(01:01:24):
and these sanctions have really exposed like, especially for Europe,
but I think in general as well. You know how
how delicate everything is, and covid has done this as well,
how delicate supply chains are, how delicate the whole this
whole kind of globalized world is, and actually the only
way that you can really prepare for an unforeseen crisis

(01:01:46):
like a war or a pandemic or whatever, is to
try and be as energy independent as you can or
grow as much as your own food as you can.
You don't, and I think this is something that we're
going to see a big trend towards, and this is
from an environmental perspective as well, because I think people
are becoming more and more concerned about the fact that
food gets shipped around the world and obviously you know

(01:02:09):
that that's carbon emissions and things like that. So I
think we are going to see a trend towards countries
trying to produce more of their own energy and more
of their own food, you know, more of their own
goods and things like that, and some people are are
really kind of talking about a possible end to globalization,
which is I mean I think that's a fairly bold

(01:02:31):
call at this stage, but I don't think you can,
I don't think you can deny that we're going through
a period of enormous change and things aren't you know,
things are hopefully going to look a lot better in,
you know, in four say, but they're also going to
look a lot different as well, and we just got
to hope, I think, that they look different in a

(01:02:53):
good way. MM HMM. So we're going to have to
be off grid as a country? Yeah, and everyone's going
to have to grow their own vegetables, have get solar
panels on your on your house, dig up your garden
and turn it into a vege patch, insulate your roof, Um,

(01:03:14):
keep lots of tin foods. Guy, that was that was
the cheeriest news I've heard from you. But it's about
eye opening. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe it is is
more of a shift in our life than than we
are acknowledging. And you know, higher energy prices are something

(01:03:37):
that's going to be here for a while until we
adopt Um, nuclear or some other sort of which don't. Don't.
Don't try to own all the nuclear power stations in
the UK anyway. Yeah, I think so. They're basically paying
for them. I think. Um, yeah, that's the if they if.
If you wanted an example of globalization in action, there

(01:03:59):
you go it. Yeah, I think this is a this
is a very long term thing, but the future is
going to the future is going to look a lot different.
MM HMM. There's food for thought. Um. So, Mikey, I'm
glad I've been able to to to dampen your mood.
It's all right, the my I q will mean that

(01:04:21):
I will forget about this shortly. Ignorance is bliss, and
I will have a cup of tea and will be
all right. But couple a couple of a couple of
cups of tea, a donut or two and you'll be
right as rain. Yeah, you had to sort a little fat.
I've been there, noted. You'll remember that. Um, I will
try and for next week's episode, I will try and

(01:04:41):
talk about something more cheerful. How about that? Why don't
we do that? Why don't we? Why don't we? Let's
get into the WHATSAPP and start thinking about some some
brighter topics that we can sort of divulge into and explore. Okay, okay,
good idea. I am I am sort of trying to
work towards doing an episode on Toshi Nakamoto as well,

(01:05:01):
because I've seen a few people asking for that. I
did sort of promise that. We did kind of promise
to do that a while ago and a few people
have held me to that and I think it's something.
I think it's something we'd both enjoy. I think, yeah,
I'd love to learn more about that, but without doing
any of the research myself. Okay, well, that's fortunately where

(01:05:21):
I come in. I'm wonderful. All right, man. Well, it's
been lovely to talk to you and to everyone in light.
We'll see see you next week. Thanks for listening, everyone.
Thank you so much for listening to the Coin Bureau podcast.
If you'd like to learn more about cryptocurrency, you can
visit our Youtube Channel at Youtube Dot Com forward slash

(01:05:42):
coin bureau. You can also go to coin bureau dot
Com for loads more information about all things crypto. You
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(01:06:06):
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