April 12, 2021 • 38 mins
On this episode of The Colin Cowherd Podcast, Colin reacts to a snoozer of a Tiger-less Masters, and explains why the NFL Draft is more of TV juggernaut than the "major" sports (1:00). His guest is former NFL scout and host of the 3 and Out Podcast, John Middlekauff. They discuss a juiceless Masters (5:00), and dive into the NFL, including why Aaron Rodgers hosting Jeopardy! is a flex on the Packers (8:00), if the Niners are really going to pull the trigger on Bama QB Mac Jones with the 3rd overall pick in the Draft, why logic would dictate otherwise (14:00), if the Falcons almost have to draft Justin Fields if they don't trade out of the 4th pick (27:00), if BYU's Zach Wilson could struggle under the harsh NYC spotlight (30:00), and why Trevor Lawrence landing in Jacksonville could be great for his career (36:00).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by
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Duel more ways to win. Hi, everybody, Welcome to the
(00:31):
Monday Morning Podcast. So. I had a buddy of mine
who I've known him forever, named Ron Ron Peeboy. I
used to work with him in Portland. He was the
weekend guy. I was the weekday guy, sports guy, and
he said, I bet I was. I would guess you
do eighty percent football talk now, and I get that
from time to time. People say, you know, you talk
a lot of football, folks. If I was in Canada,
(00:53):
I talk eighty percent hockey. And if I was in
London doing this, I talk eighty percent English Premier League.
I wouldn't talk it if people didn't like it. And
I've said this before. I watch a ton actually of baseball.
I keep it on all summer. I've watched seven of
the ten Dodger games. I've watched four Yankee games. I
keep baseball in the television in my house all summer long,
(01:17):
and When I get in the car, I turn on
the radio and listen to baseball. But baseball doesn't promote
its stars, so I cannot put that on a simulcast.
It's ratings poison. Now in October I can or I
can talk about the Yankees and the Dodgers this week.
I'll have a Dodger on the show. Hopefully a Yankee soon.
But when people say that, I go, I know, I understand.
(01:38):
But if you own a grocery store, milk, eggs, and
bread is seventy five to eighty percent of what you sell.
Stand in a line, look around. We're all going up
there getting the same stuff. That's what you got to
talk about. So if you're ever frustrated, my takeaway is, yeah,
I know. Last year seventy two percent of my show
was NFL college football or the Draft, which is a
(02:01):
combination of both. Here's the world I live in. The
NFL draft beats the NHL, NBA and baseball first and
off in second round playoffs. I wish I was kidding.
The NFL draft, drafting college football players into a sport
they've yet to play, will beat not just regular season games,
(02:25):
it'll trounce regular season hockey NBA baseball games. It will
beat first round playoff action and in hockey second round
playoff action. That's what I'm dealing with. In the end,
I talk about whatever you like. You peeps like football.
I mean, prime example, The Masters was a complete snooze.
So now we re enter a multiple year or perhaps
(02:49):
forever new era of tigerless golf. And watch the ratings
come out today for the Masters. They will be terrible.
So if they were great, I talk about it when
Tiger won, I talked about it this weekend snooze City.
It was good for about three minutes, and then the
(03:10):
chant was good on fifteen, wrapped it up and see
you next year. All right, let's bring on my buddy,
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout, knows his ship. That's why
I bring him on. Great, got to talk about drafts
couple of weeks out. Let's bring on John. All Right, Middlecoff,
you're a huge golf fan, So I'm gonna float a
theory to you. One of our producers, and Andrew Sampson,
(03:32):
throw this out. This is pretty interesting. So as a broadcaster,
you know, when it's a big day like Monday after
the Super Bowl, I'm ready to go. Now this year,
I was had a physical thing, but you yeah, but
you know, when it's a big broadcast, right, there's a
big difference between doing Tuesday Night with the Nuggets and
then the NBA Finals, and broadcasters aren't the same every night.
(03:54):
You try to be professional. But like Joe Buck and
Aikman were great for the Super Bowl that the year
Fox had it because they'd already seen all the pieces
before the game started. You know, they got a heads
up on the quality of the production. And you're going
for Emmy's. You know, everybody in the world's watching this.
So Sampson came up with this, and it's interesting. I'm
(04:16):
sure you watched some of the Masters. I tried to
stay awake through it ended up going to Dodger Baseball.
But the guys in the truck know when it's going
to get a bad rating, and the broadcast suffers when
it's a yearner. It's not that they're trying to be
less talented, but the replays are late. They miss stuff.
(04:36):
When Tiger a couple of years ago on Sunday with
eight holes to go as leading, those guys women in
the truck know the world is watching. When it's a Yarner,
people in the truck. No four hours before it ends.
This is just dead. The theory is the Masters. When
(04:57):
it's boring, the telecast is worse. What feels like another
golf tournament. I mean it feels like the Sony Open.
That's what it felt like. Yeah, it just I mean,
the one thing they have is the views. But most
people now with technology, you notice Thursday Friday. It's not
like it's your first time watching on Sunday. So if
it's boring, you'll just change the channel. It was bad.
I mean part of part of what you know you
(05:19):
do and I looky enough I get to do now
is react to stuff. If you do call a game,
you need the game to be good, right. It's easier
to call the Iron Bowl when it's a tight game
in the fourth quarter if the game is snoo I
mean they kept going today, Hadeki Matsia I'm a first
ever Japanese player to win a major. They kept using
the Japanese calls and it's unique. But part of it
(05:40):
is they have nothing else to talk about. I mean,
he's rolling to the win. They've had historic finishes there
and it usually does because there's drama on the back
nine there's water. But this was bad. And the Masters
really controls not the gym's really pushing the envelope with things.
He's gonna say. But they're a little hold toy there, right.
(06:01):
I mean they call the fans patrons like it's it's
a stiff, stiff broadcast. And I'm a golf guy, but yes,
it's a little I mean, I always think Nance does
a great job setting stuff up, but he's been doing
this too long to know. It's a yarner. And it was,
and it felt like another golf tournament, which is the
worst thing you could say about a major. It's just
(06:22):
it was. I turned to baseball. I went and watched
six innings of the Dodgers, who, by the way, we're
looking at potentially as good a baseball team as we
have had in twenty years. I mean, it's it's incredible.
I mean, they didn't play Bellinger, Mookie Bets, it doesn't matter.
It's insane. They put so much money into the minor
league system, research and development. Everybody they call up works instantly.
(06:43):
Everybody they call guys up. They're all good. You know,
I'm a big Giants fan. I mean, their records good,
but they're not any good. I end up watching a
lot of Yankees games. Aaron Judge is from fris stay guy,
and I know people that know him well. I like
watching the Yankees, and you've always I mean, their brand
is big, they feel big. They're a flawed team. Every
guy is swinging out of their shoes trying to hit bombs.
(07:04):
The thing that the Dodgers do well. They can hit
home runs, but they run, they play defense. They're just
a well rounded team. And that's why they're gonna it's
gonna translate like the Yankees are never gonna win big
in October. They can't hit a guy over with two house.
They all strike out. They can't. I know it. You know,
Dodgers are great situationally, They're great with power, they're great
with average. They got power arms. I mean, they're bullpens,
(07:27):
probably not top four or five in baseball, so they'll
leak some runs in the back end. But I've watched
they've had ten games this year. I've watched parts of seven.
They have trailed once. Yeah, and that was an A's
game that the A's won in the you know, in
the ninth. They are they are and they have one
of the great front offices, so they make transactions at
(07:47):
the trade deadline. They're so think about this, Colin, if
you give the smartest guy, and they say that Friedman
is arguably one of the smartest guys in baseball money
and resources kind of a rap. Part of what Bill
Walsh kicked everyone's in the eighties. His owner was spending
more money than everyone else. You give the most talented
coach or GM all the resources you need, it's turned
(08:08):
into not very fair fight out here. No, it's not
all right, John of course, the former NFL scout. So
the Aaron Rodgers Jeopardy thing. So when I moved to
Vegas years ago, I was, you know, twenty something, early twenties,
and I wrote about this in my first book, You
Heard Me. I first got there and I was a
(08:30):
huge Pack twelve football fan, Washington Husky fan, and then
I'd go bet on the Huskies, and if they did lose,
it ruined my weekend. I lost my bet and my
team lost, and so I started buying what I thought
of a sports insurance. I always bet against my favorite team,
so if they lost, I won money mostly not all
(08:51):
the time, and if they wont, I was happy and
I wasn't making I made seventy eight hundred dollars my
first year out of college, eleven tho eight hundred my second.
That wasn't a lot of money third two years ago.
So what I did is I always felt like I
was I was buying insurance, emotional insurance. And I said
it this week about Aaron Rodgers. You can when you're
(09:12):
faced with a challenge, you can do two things. You
can deny it, or you can create a new reality.
So Aaron Rodgers has now been with Green Bay forever.
He can deny that they're never really going to go
and be aggressive with free agency. They're just not, even
when his salary was small, They're just not. Or he
(09:33):
can create a new reality or what I would call
mental insurance. Well, green Bay, you're kind of into me,
and so I'm kind of going to be into you.
I want to do Jeopardy and I think it's it's
actually from a mental health standpoint. What Aaron saying is
you're into me. You are into me like ninety percent
(09:53):
eighty five percent Tampa's one hundred percent to Tom. You know,
so I'm gonna be nine percent eighty five percent in you,
and I'm gonna do Jeopardy and I'd really not that,
not that he doesn't want to do it, but if
they went out and kept Corey Linsley and they got
JJ Watt and they kept Jared Cook and they and
they kept I don't think he'd do it. I think
he would feel like, hey, they have completely committed to me.
(10:18):
I'm not going to be disrespectful, but I think part
of him saying, f you, you guys draft a quarterback
instead of get players. We've got dogged by the Niners twice,
so I'm kind of going to be into you. Yeah.
I think it's human nature to be spiteful after that
moment that happened to him last year with the drafting
the quarterback, because the way that the NFL works, And
(10:38):
I would say, I mean, I've been in businesses. You're
where the management that believes in you and when management
leaves that may not think the same about you. You
can tell the difference, even if you're a quarterback making
thirty thirty five million dollars. He went through it. Here's
the sad part. He's a cheat code in this offense.
Colin this offense which has taken the league by storm.
The Shanahan zone. You know, running game, embracing the running game,
(11:01):
the boot, the play action stuff. It's Jared goff. Sean
mcvagh couldn't get rid of Jared goffass enough because he's going,
I'm getting guys wide open and you can't hit just
basic throws. Well, this offense gets guy's wide open. You
have someone who's talented, Aaron Rodgers, you run away win
the MVP with ease. I mean, it wasn't really a
competition by the end of the year. But like you said,
the organization we need we needed a wide receiver. We
(11:23):
still need a wide receiver. And what do we have
to show for just Davante still And what's he supposed
to do Because this isn't the NBA. He can't just pound.
They just say screw you, kick rocks from not trading you.
This isn't like Kyrie Irving, I gotta go and they
trade him. That's not the way football works. So he's
kind of stuck and Aaron smart, he understands that his
contract still has a couple of years, so he has
(11:46):
to make the best of it. I like that the
analogy you use. I think there's truth to it. I
also just think that the Jordan love moment for a
guy who has been anointed, even they think he's better
than far he basically has the same resume. They both
won one, you know, super Bowl. But when they did
that and then for that kid to show up and
(12:07):
let's face it, he stinks he did at least his
first year, he couldn't beat out the backup quarterback reports
where he couldn't mean skipping ball. It was atrocious that
that to me, if you're Aaron is Lafloor and Goodikins,
it would be hard to look at him the same
even though that you know that they need you, and
they could back pedal now and say that we're all
in on Eron, like I saw your true colors, you
(12:27):
thought I was done right. That happened a little bit
to Tom and he never forgot it. Ultimately, Jimmy got
pushed out of town. They still want and Tom always
wanted to leave because I can't imagine at that level
you win that big you feel you've carried the franchise.
I mean, part of the thing with McCarthy was like,
you know, I think this guy's the meat head. I'm
the brains behind it, and we're always you know who's
(12:48):
telling the truth, Aaron and kind of Aaron. You know
that 's pretty well for Aaron, right, the McCarthy thing,
and clearly the flour. I think Lafloor is good and
the offense is fantastic for Aaron, and Aaron knows that.
But it's not like they surround him. I mean, look
at the Niners are constantly just chasing players, trying to
do stuff, adding offensive players. Look at Sean mcvayh adding
guys doing whatever it takes. Maybe that's out of Gudikins
(13:11):
and Lafour's hands. I mean, I'm sure it is just
their ownership situation, but it's not ideal for having just
this transcendent talent now who's back in the peak of
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dot com for terms and conditions. So I was told
(14:35):
this weekend, and it is shocking I have said this.
We got five quarterbacks that are going in the first round.
My prediction is the two that will be successful Trevor
Lawrence and whoever the Niners take. Yeah, I've been told,
and I was a denier they're taking Mac Jones and
(14:55):
it wouldn't be who I would take, but I do
think he will be s what's successful because it's a
perfect situation. Now, do I think you know the other
guys could be more successful? Well, but we'll never know, right.
It's like you don't know the president you don't elect.
You don't know how it would have been, right, better
or worse, the girl you don't date. Whatever. Yeah, you
(15:17):
have no clue, right, Right, So I do think mac
Jones because it's perfect, we'll have some success. I don't.
I don't see super Bowl success. But you're in the
Bay Area. A source I trust now says it is
an eighty twenty mac Jones lead. Well, I just want
to start with this. He is known as the guy
with the highest floor of that group of Trey Lance,
(15:40):
of Justin Fields and mac Jones. There's no such thing
as a high floor for a quarterback prospect unless you
were like Andrew Luck maybe Trevor Lawrence. Right, the bus
potential on quarterbacks is really high because most of them,
it typically is intangible. Right, it's his work, ethic, his
ability to process, his its ability to handle the pressure,
(16:01):
the pressure that comes at being drafted number three. And
then on top of that, if you don't have great
physical tools, with Mac by far has the least physical
the best you know, if you just ranked the physical
skill set of the top five guys, he's the bottom,
and I don't think it's really close. I actually think
Colin they're gonna take Trey Lance. I talked to an
NFL exec this week who thought, when you watch Trey
(16:21):
Lance and things he does well throw on the move, physically,
what Kyle's talked about our big high end athletes, if
you had your choice, He went on record a couple
weeks ago when they made the trade and said, if
you could choose, which we kind of can now, you
ideally always take the bigger, faster, stronger guy. And if
you look at the guys on Kyle's teams even historically
that they've had success with Julio Jones, Trent Williams, who
(16:43):
the Shanahan's draft and then he brought back. Trent Williams
is six foot six, three hundred thirty pounds, runs like
a running back, took a year off, came back, made
a Pro Bowl like those are Kyle Shanahan has known
for this. Kirk Kirk Cousins was a fourth round pick.
They just mortgage the entire future. Picked twelve two other rounders.
That would be like taking your entire life savings and
then just investing it into like a pretty safe ETF. Right,
(17:07):
Usually when you take your entire life savings, you would
take a pretty big risk on something like It's to
take a pretty bold move if you're going to take
all the money and make the move and let it
instead of just letting it sit there. Because I would
say mac Jones every single year there are Mac Jones
in the second and third round. And if you've got
Kyle Shanahan, wouldn't you just use that value to do that?
They did try to do that three four years ago
(17:29):
with CJ. Bethard, a plug in play pro style quarterback
from Iowa High Floor Colony was terrible. So to me,
the more I've talked just two different people in the league,
if you read what Kyle is actually and listen to
what Kyle's actually said, now that doesn't mean anything. At
this time of year, people lie to me. Trey Lance,
high character guy represented by Tom Condon, who represents the Mannings,
(17:52):
the Breezes, the Staffords, all the high level guys, is
only twenty years old. Who is just this raw product?
Do you have a lot to work with if you
are going to keep Jimmy, which again they might be lying,
but if they truly take him at their word, they
would keep him. Wouldn't Trey Lance be the guy that
you kind of work with, Keep behind Jimmy for a year,
see how it goes. He's only started a year. You
don't know how he's gonna look. Because if you take
(18:14):
mac Jones, if they do that, which I definitely think
as a possibility, I think he has to start. You
can't take the highest flour guy and then have him
sit for a year. What the hell are we doing right?
That guy would have to play immediately. If you take
mac Jones, if you take Trey Lance, you can justify
it to people. I think if you take mac Jones,
for everything Kyle has built around here and he has
(18:37):
a lot of equity. People think very, very highly of him,
even though when you look, he's only had one successful season.
But if you watch him every week and last year
they won six games, he was fantastic. He was excellent.
Given how many injuries they had, how Jimmy disappeared for
all these games, I think he would lose a lot
of that at the moment he took mac Jones. Now, ultimately,
on Draft night, nothing doesn't mean anything. You win games,
(18:59):
no one will care, but I think people would question.
I think it would be one of the most arrogant
picks in the history of the league. See that's what
I say. It's like. It's it's like what the Bears
did with Trubisky. When people there are scouts that think
mac Jones is a third round pick. There were guys
that didn't think Trubisky was a top three round pick.
When scouts are divided and you trade multiple first to
(19:23):
move up, that's like what Josh McDaniel then with Tebow.
I'm smarter than all you guys. It's like, no, no, no no, no, no,
no no. If you want, if you can draft Mac
Jones at twelve, that's one thing. If you trade multiple first,
you're saying he's a generational talent. Aren't you twofold? Here?
Who would the Rams in Seattle sign up? For them
(19:43):
to take it'd have to be Mac Jones over Justin
Fields or Trey Lance and their potential right, They would
much rather have a guy the Niners have kicked the
Rams asked the last two years. They beat him four
straight games because Jared Goff can't scrip, he can't move,
and the Niners have a you know, vicious pass rush.
They're just aggressive on defense and they ate him alive. Well,
Jared Goff, he's long gone. They want a guy with
(20:05):
a little more athletic ability, a little more playmaking ability.
Russell Wilson has kicked the Niners ask for it almost
a decade because he's just so mobile. Kyle's now had
a front row seat for four years. And here's the
other thing to meet Kyle's stubbornness. If he were to
take mac Jones, which again I am hesitant to think
that it's just some lock because he's had a four
year front row seat, and when he got the job,
his experience was based on having success with Shob and
(20:28):
then he loved Kirk Cousins and then Matt Ryan. But
then he had four years to kind of live with
a Jimmy who's kind of in that type mold not
as good as Matt Ryan, but probably similar to Kirk Cousins.
And it's been up and down. Even when they were good,
he had one of the best teams in the league.
Jimmy wasn't one of the best quarterbacks in the league,
but he was fine. He was like a game manager.
Top ten to fifteen you went through four years of
(20:49):
seeing all this, He's got his ass kicked by Mahomes
and the Super Bowl at the end last super Bowl
last year, Josh Allen put on a clinic against him.
Kyler has given them fits for a couple of years,
and then you make this decision. Like part of being
a head coach, as you get to learn right, you
get to kind of see the whole thing. Take a
step back. You're evaluating offense and defense. Who in your division.
You're not just the offensive coordinator. You're thinking about the
(21:09):
quarterback on the other team. You know what work. That's
part of what makes belichicko especially plays his CEO, but
he's also that he also can coach every position and
understands it all. And I think Kyle gets kind of
labeled as that type guy too. I just it would
be nuts. Now. Could they have success with Mac Jones,
for sure, because Kyle is a great coach offensive weapons,
But to me that just because a guy is a
(21:32):
high floor doesn't mean he's gonna be good, you know.
I mean Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins has had success. But
do we all believe if Josh Allen was in Minnesota,
they'd be better. They'd be ways of course, and Kirk
Cousins part of it. It took him a long like
he's I give him credit. Last year he was pretty good.
He had one of the best rookie wide receivers we'd
(21:53):
ever seen. Dalvin Cook is probably a top two running
back last year in the league. Yeah, yeah, feelings a stud.
They have good tight ends. Their coordinators the last couple
of years have been good. They've just been a high
level offensive operating. Cousins is solid because it's also thirty
thirty one years old. He remember when he was like
twenty four twenty five, We're like, god, this guy, what
are we doing here? If you yeah, but Kirk Cousins
(22:13):
was a fourth round pick. If Mac looked like that
at twenty four to twenty five, and you go, wait,
you just traded three first rounders for this guy. Part
of trading two first rounders for Matt Stafford is just
knowing we got a guy that can do a lot
of different things, and you know that. Part of Mac
Jones is like you traded your life savings for that.
It is you know the other and now and let's
(22:36):
so let's say they do that. Let's say it goes
Trevor Lawrence, Sack Wilson and Mac Jones. So it's interesting.
I don't think Atlanta needs a quarterback and they obviously
are a mess defensively, but then Justin Fields from Georgia
falls to four and there's gonna be media pressure, and
(22:59):
to me, I don't want to be in that spot
if I'm Atlanta and not take him. And I've said this,
sometimes in life you do something to protect yourself. Yeah right,
you just okay, you just you just you just protect
your career. You take you know, it's it's years ago.
I had Mark Warkin team told me this. If if
(23:19):
you're a coin flip on an international player and a
guy that was great in March Madness, and you you're
scouting department as coin flip, you take the guy that
was great in March Madness because the owner watched him play.
The owner will be like, well, and then you can
go five years later and go you know, I mean
you saw him, he was unbelievable. The international guy bombs,
(23:43):
It's like you're gonna have to really fight for your
so you do it. If it's a coin flip, you
take the kid from Kansas over you know, the Ukrainian
forward if you think they're just even and I and
and I think it was I think it was Mark
who talked about kind of the gamesmanship of who you
have to draft. And it may not have marked, but
it was. I was told that by somebody that if
(24:03):
it's a coin flip and the owner's barking at you,
take the guy the owner. Why well, it's why Justin
Fields right now is the easy pick for the Niners
would get. The fans would celebrate it, Atlanta would celebrate it.
To me, he has a little bit of an NBA
type feel to him. Ohio State five star. We've seen
him and he's talented. So no one's gonna hate it
(24:23):
on draft night now. But if Atlanta is not at
four they've traded out, yeah, then you can't say and
they and they get three firsts, nobody's gonna say anything
because there'll be a better football team. Arthur Smith, the
new coach, will make Matt Ryan better. And if you
get three four picks, So to protect yourself as a
general manager, I don't want to be at four and
(24:46):
Justin Fields is available. Your thoughts on that, I don't
hate it. I think that if you think Arthur Smith
is really good, and he was excellent the last couple
of years in Tennessee, like he was big time. You
feel with Matt Ryan and the offensive pieces you have,
and if you get the pick right at four, maybe
you could compete for the playoffs, right, you could compete
to win nine ten games, then no one will care.
(25:08):
That would be the way you would try to justify
it that our offense is going to be so good.
We get Arthur in here, if he's singing Matt Ryan's
praises that Matt Ryan I think has headed toward the
wrong you know, you know, his trajectory's pointing down, not
up anymore, which I think we've gotten spoiled with Tom
who's forty three and just keeps going strong like Philip Rivers,
Drew Breese like that's usually what it looks like at
thirty eight, thirty nine forty. Ben Roethlisberger like this is
(25:31):
I mean, when you were a kid at like thirty two,
they started getting old right in the seventies and the eighties.
Now it's like thirty nine, thirty eight, forty, Like that's
not normal. Now Matt Ryan's thirty five, you're gonna be
I think thirty six. Maybe you can justify he still
has some good football, but that would be risky because
if it doesn't go well like you said, and you
did not take him, and you take let's say a
tackle or let's say you take Kyle Pitts and Matt
(25:53):
Ryan is just Matt and that kid goes someone trades
up and gets him and he's good. It's hard to
shake because back to the Niners, whoever you don't take
and goes after it. You saw last year with Miami
and Tua. That next guy is part of that kid's conversation,
like part of Tua's conversation is Herbert, part of whoever
the Niners take the two guys they could have take.
If one of those two guys becomes good, is part
(26:15):
of the conversation. That's like the elephant in the room.
It's part of being at really high pick is usually sweet.
Players go after you and they get associated with your name.
We could have had so and so, and that's sometimes
gets coaches fired. You know, it's interesting, I was just
next year, this is a great quarterback draft. We all
(26:36):
know that next year is not a great quarterback draft.
Keidon Slovis is the quarterback at USC Yeah, many people
are saying he's one of the two best quarterbacks. Well,
slovis likable kid, throws a nice ball, does not have
a huge arm, is not a great athlete. His greatest
asset is he walked on as a true freshman and
(26:58):
just looked like he long no nervous feat. He's got
kind of a cool kind of unfazed by pressure. It's
very noticeable day for those guys I saw thrown at
the Pro day. I like that guy. Yeah, now he
gets hurt. Yeah, he's not a great athlete. He's got
an average arm. He's considered the number one or the
(27:19):
number two quarterback. JT. Daniels out of Georgia, who was
at USC is in the top three. He's done nothing right.
And I keep saying this. I was shocked more people
weren't in on Darnald. And my takeaway was, if you
were Washington or Chicago and you can't get one of
these guys, what's on the market next year? There's nothing.
(27:44):
Darnald would easily be the top quarterback in next year's draft.
He's twenty three. So when Carolina and I kind of
got that one right, I kind of predicted Carolina I
was surprised Washington didn't go after him. I was surprised Chicago,
I would surprise Denver. I mean your takeaway on Darnold
(28:05):
to Carolina. I think it's gonna work. To what level,
I don't know, but I think it'll work. I think
sometimes it probably works for any walk of life being
in a negative situation, whether it's you know, a bad
relationship that all your people in town know about, whether
it's a business that goes wrong, whether it's a situation
like the Jets that is just a dumpster fire. You
get associated with that, even if you might have been
(28:27):
somewhat innocent in the situation. Now, he made some bad
places throughout his time, but let's face it, the Jets
were an abomination their GM. Before Joe Douglas got there
was a laughing stock in the league. Adam Gaze became legitimate.
Like he didn't talk with other people, like how uncomfortable
from people that I talked to in that building. Of
(28:47):
just the way he operated was a joke. And you
put a guy who's a high level everyone likes him,
who's like best friends with Josh Allen, who again went
to a great place, a high functioning place, and it
has a lot of success. Now I'm not saying Darnold
has the same skill set. Josh is more talented, but
I think that that like he got like Adam Gae,
(29:08):
almost had the jet stink on him, where I've bet
a lot of people just three years ago loved him.
Had maybe not top five grades, but let's say a
guy would have taken him no problem at pick twelve
or fifteen or whatever, and then just three years later, yeah,
we don't he's not worth the second round pick where
it's gonna come back to buy them because how often
do distressed assets go for cheap? And like, oh if
I could have bought that building, it was so cheap.
(29:29):
Well yeah, I mean we all knew it. This guy
was right here, he was there to be had to me,
you're gonna take Zach Wilson, who has spent his entire
life in Utah, who came out of nowhere. His first
two years weren't great. He had some character, would be strong,
but like Josh Rosen just bump heads with people, had
just a good self opinion right of himself and just
(29:54):
kind of cocky, and he's just gonna You're just gonna
take him out of a lifetime Utah guy. It's a
New York City, small Utah guy into BYU. So one
thing been protected, one thing for Sam Darnold. He had
no issues with dealing with New York right, it was
just the football situation. I got the mono. But I
mean that probably could happen to anybody. I think that's
a pretty bold move. And I talked to someone who
(30:15):
worked with Joe Douglas and I said, why would Joe
be so head over heels because Robert Salo is not
making this pick the gm is And he said, well,
Joe was born and raised in the Ravens culture, and
in the Ravens culture. Ozzie knew some Billick those years
with ray Lewis Edree. They draft sugs, even Flacco and
Kuombolden like they like cocky, They kind of like that.
(30:38):
And He's like, I bet Joe kind of likes that
about Zach Wilson. And it just shows you, like, depending
on how you kind of come up and then become
a GM we all look for different things in different players.
I mean, you look at different things in players than
I would. It's just people we've been as we talked
and taught us the game and the way we think
about it, and he just likes that. I think it's
a huge stretch. On top of this, he played this
(31:00):
season typically by you as a good schedule, right, they're
playing a ton of Pack twelve schools. They just play powerhouse.
They have no problem playing anybody. Well, that wasn't possible
this year with Corona. They played a schedule full of
nobody's and he was the best player every time they
got in the field. That's a big projection. I mean,
there's a big difference between playing Brian Flores and Sean
McDermott in September than playing you know, Nevada and New
(31:23):
Mexico back to back weeks, right, and the pressure of
New York. There's also this. I had someone in the
league tell me this and it was a good point.
He said. Time zones are a big deal for rookie
players because if you're on if you're in Philly or
Washington or New York and things start going bad, well
if you want to call a guy, if you get
(31:43):
up and you got some time and you want to
call someone, well they're not up. Like your family, maybe
your ex girlfriend, maybe you're a good friends still on
the team, your times are all off. If it's six
o'clock and you're at home, well it's three o'clock. Your
buddy might be at practice, your dad's at work, or whatever.
It's harder to have that support system when you're three
time zones away from where you grew up, and it
can feel very lonely in these negative areas like negativity.
(32:07):
I live in the Bay Area, you live in LA.
It's not that negative about like the Lakers or the
Niners or the Giants. It's just it's easy. Well, people
are happier out west because the weather is better, you
know what I mean. It's in New York and Philly
and Boss. Oh, it's a big deal. Yeah, And I
think it can overwhelm these like in Utah it's happy
and you play at Cow or you play at USC
(32:28):
it's a happier place. You go out there, it's people
are pissed off, and I think it can overwhelm a guy.
You can feel isolated that there's no one. It's a
huge jump, and it's hard enough as it is. Right,
it's hard to make a jump from college football to
pro football. Well, just in a vacuum by itself. When
you start factoring all the other things. That's I think
that's a big stretch at two overall. I don't know,
(32:49):
you know, John, you know what the angry thing is funny,
So I always had here's one of my crazy theories.
So when I was out east for eleven years, one
of the richest communities in the East Coast is West
Palm in Florida. It's like the uber rich Marlago, that
kind of thing. I think that's where Jeffrey Lury conducted
all of his interviews for the Eagles. He has a
house there. Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at who
(33:13):
owns the houses, they are litigators, huge lawyers, so you're
fighting in court or their money guys. They're Wall Street
guys where there's a winner and a loser. I buy
a stock, you lose. It's very competitive out east. The
money comes from traditional combative industries out west. Where are
(33:35):
the richest places out west? You know Silicon Valley, you
know Medinah, Washington, Beverly Hills. Who owns houses there? Tech, Hollywood,
those are creation businesses. People are happier. West Coast money
(33:59):
big money from a half year place, Netflix, Hollywood, I mean,
go up and down, Microsoft, Google, bring your dog to work,
And I said this. When I was out east, it
was a lot of people my age thirty or forty.
They were chasing their grandfathers or their dad's dreams for them.
(34:21):
Out West, my buddies who have done well are chasing
their dreams. Yeah, they're going after what they want. And
it's interesting you mentioned that with Zach Wilson. Anger does
sell Boston, Philly, New York radio. Anger moves. You listen
to people calling those shows at three thirty in the afternoon,
blue collar guy is pissed. I turn on LA radio.
(34:44):
People are funny, They're happy, they're they're like, you get
genuinely funny calls. People aren't angry. Sounds weird. You sound like,
why are you so angry? At seventy four degrees today?
So it is interesting when you get into that tunnel
of anger in the East Coast, it can overwhelm you.
If you're a West Coast guy, I wouldn't have known.
(35:06):
You always hear about it, but until you live out there.
When I moved to Philly, i'd spent my whole life
in California. It's it's like a different country. Even though
we're all Americans, we're all taxpaying citizens. No, we don't
have that much in common. Now, if you're an aspirational individual,
you actually I know, I'm sure you can agree. You
appreciate some of the elements over there. There's some emergency
(35:28):
about everything, and I related a lot to certain elements
of the people. But there is an anger level that
is just does not parallel this area. And I think
Sportstock Radio. I remember just turning it on while I
was like in the office with the Eagles, and they
were just every it was relentless, win or lose. They
weren't happy just because you win and losses. They kind
(35:49):
of live for when you lose. On the West Coast,
if the Dodgers won seventy five games or or the
Golden State Warriors missed the playoffs, no one cares. You
know what it is, John, out here, it's not anger,
it's indifference. It's apathy. Yeah, So when you lose out West,
we'll just go to the beach. There's other stuff to do.
Like in Los Angeles, nobody's angry. It's just indifference. It's like, Okay,
(36:09):
we don't care. There is pressure to win in LA
because people will stop coming to the stadium. But nobody's
taken signs. No. But I mean they're mad in La
or in San Diego because the Chargers left. But it's
not palpable. You don't feel it. See. I think that's
a benefit for Trevor Lawrence the Jags now that they
get a real coach, much softer landing spot than the
(36:32):
Jets for Trevor. You know, if Trevor was going to
fail in the NFL, the Jets situation, first time head coach,
it could be overwhelming the Jags least relevant team in
the league. Urban Meyer just even though he's never coached
in the league, he knows what he's doing. Much softer
landing spot. He actually got very lucky. I think that
it ultimately changed at the end of the season. He
(36:54):
didn't end up having to good in New York. All right, buddy,
So I'm gonna have a cocktail. I'm playing wake up.
You know what I had to sit through a couple
of hours or that boring Masters Dodger win. It's great
talking any thanks for coming on. All right. That's my buddy.
(37:15):
John Middelcoff knows his stuff, knows his stuff. We have
Drew Rosenhouse, the super Agent's going to be on this week.
Oh then we have a really good guest, really good
guests coming up. I'm not going to give it to
you listen. There's no mystery. Why the hell would you listen?
Gotta give you some mystery, right, Life's better with mystery anyway.
(37:37):
At The Volume Sports, Twitter, and Instagram, rate review, subscribe,
Have a good Monday. The Volume
The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by
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Duel more ways to win. Hi, everybody, Welcome to the
(00:31):
Monday Morning Podcast. So. I had a buddy of mine
who I've known him forever, named Ron Ron Peeboy. I
used to work with him in Portland. He was the
weekend guy. I was the weekday guy, sports guy, and
he said, I bet I was. I would guess you
do eighty percent football talk now, and I get that
from time to time. People say, you know, you talk
a lot of football, folks. If I was in Canada,
(00:53):
I talk eighty percent hockey. And if I was in
London doing this, I talk eighty percent English Premier League.
I wouldn't talk it if people didn't like it. And
I've said this before. I watch a ton actually of baseball.
I keep it on all summer. I've watched seven of
the ten Dodger games. I've watched four Yankee games. I
keep baseball in the television in my house all summer long,
(01:17):
and When I get in the car, I turn on
the radio and listen to baseball. But baseball doesn't promote
its stars, so I cannot put that on a simulcast.
It's ratings poison. Now in October I can or I
can talk about the Yankees and the Dodgers this week.
I'll have a Dodger on the show. Hopefully a Yankee soon.
But when people say that, I go, I know, I understand.
(01:38):
But if you own a grocery store, milk, eggs, and
bread is seventy five to eighty percent of what you sell.
Stand in a line, look around. We're all going up
there getting the same stuff. That's what you got to
talk about. So if you're ever frustrated, my takeaway is, yeah,
I know. Last year seventy two percent of my show
was NFL college football or the Draft, which is a
(02:01):
combination of both. Here's the world I live in. The
NFL draft beats the NHL, NBA and baseball first and
off in second round playoffs. I wish I was kidding.
The NFL draft, drafting college football players into a sport
they've yet to play, will beat not just regular season games,
(02:25):
it'll trounce regular season hockey NBA baseball games. It will
beat first round playoff action and in hockey second round
playoff action. That's what I'm dealing with. In the end,
I talk about whatever you like. You peeps like football.
I mean, prime example, The Masters was a complete snooze.
So now we re enter a multiple year or perhaps
(02:49):
forever new era of tigerless golf. And watch the ratings
come out today for the Masters. They will be terrible.
So if they were great, I talk about it when
Tiger won, I talked about it this weekend snooze City.
It was good for about three minutes, and then the
(03:10):
chant was good on fifteen, wrapped it up and see
you next year. All right, let's bring on my buddy,
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout, knows his ship. That's why
I bring him on. Great, got to talk about drafts
couple of weeks out. Let's bring on John. All Right, Middlecoff,
you're a huge golf fan, So I'm gonna float a
theory to you. One of our producers, and Andrew Sampson,
(03:32):
throw this out. This is pretty interesting. So as a broadcaster,
you know, when it's a big day like Monday after
the Super Bowl, I'm ready to go. Now this year,
I was had a physical thing, but you yeah, but
you know, when it's a big broadcast, right, there's a
big difference between doing Tuesday Night with the Nuggets and
then the NBA Finals, and broadcasters aren't the same every night.
(03:54):
You try to be professional. But like Joe Buck and
Aikman were great for the Super Bowl that the year
Fox had it because they'd already seen all the pieces
before the game started. You know, they got a heads
up on the quality of the production. And you're going
for Emmy's. You know, everybody in the world's watching this.
So Sampson came up with this, and it's interesting. I'm
(04:16):
sure you watched some of the Masters. I tried to
stay awake through it ended up going to Dodger Baseball.
But the guys in the truck know when it's going
to get a bad rating, and the broadcast suffers when
it's a yearner. It's not that they're trying to be
less talented, but the replays are late. They miss stuff.
(04:36):
When Tiger a couple of years ago on Sunday with
eight holes to go as leading, those guys women in
the truck know the world is watching. When it's a Yarner,
people in the truck. No four hours before it ends.
This is just dead. The theory is the Masters. When
(04:57):
it's boring, the telecast is worse. What feels like another
golf tournament. I mean it feels like the Sony Open.
That's what it felt like. Yeah, it just I mean,
the one thing they have is the views. But most
people now with technology, you notice Thursday Friday. It's not
like it's your first time watching on Sunday. So if
it's boring, you'll just change the channel. It was bad.
I mean part of part of what you know you
(05:19):
do and I looky enough I get to do now
is react to stuff. If you do call a game,
you need the game to be good, right. It's easier
to call the Iron Bowl when it's a tight game
in the fourth quarter if the game is snoo I
mean they kept going today, Hadeki Matsia I'm a first
ever Japanese player to win a major. They kept using
the Japanese calls and it's unique. But part of it
(05:40):
is they have nothing else to talk about. I mean,
he's rolling to the win. They've had historic finishes there
and it usually does because there's drama on the back
nine there's water. But this was bad. And the Masters
really controls not the gym's really pushing the envelope with things.
He's gonna say. But they're a little hold toy there, right.
(06:01):
I mean they call the fans patrons like it's it's
a stiff, stiff broadcast. And I'm a golf guy, but yes,
it's a little I mean, I always think Nance does
a great job setting stuff up, but he's been doing
this too long to know. It's a yarner. And it was,
and it felt like another golf tournament, which is the
worst thing you could say about a major. It's just
(06:22):
it was. I turned to baseball. I went and watched
six innings of the Dodgers, who, by the way, we're
looking at potentially as good a baseball team as we
have had in twenty years. I mean, it's it's incredible.
I mean, they didn't play Bellinger, Mookie Bets, it doesn't matter.
It's insane. They put so much money into the minor
league system, research and development. Everybody they call up works instantly.
(06:43):
Everybody they call guys up. They're all good. You know,
I'm a big Giants fan. I mean, their records good,
but they're not any good. I end up watching a
lot of Yankees games. Aaron Judge is from fris stay guy,
and I know people that know him well. I like
watching the Yankees, and you've always I mean, their brand
is big, they feel big. They're a flawed team. Every
guy is swinging out of their shoes trying to hit bombs.
(07:04):
The thing that the Dodgers do well. They can hit
home runs, but they run, they play defense. They're just
a well rounded team. And that's why they're gonna it's
gonna translate like the Yankees are never gonna win big
in October. They can't hit a guy over with two house.
They all strike out. They can't. I know it. You know,
Dodgers are great situationally, They're great with power, they're great
with average. They got power arms. I mean, they're bullpens,
(07:27):
probably not top four or five in baseball, so they'll
leak some runs in the back end. But I've watched
they've had ten games this year. I've watched parts of seven.
They have trailed once. Yeah, and that was an A's
game that the A's won in the you know, in
the ninth. They are they are and they have one
of the great front offices, so they make transactions at
(07:47):
the trade deadline. They're so think about this, Colin, if
you give the smartest guy, and they say that Friedman
is arguably one of the smartest guys in baseball money
and resources kind of a rap. Part of what Bill
Walsh kicked everyone's in the eighties. His owner was spending
more money than everyone else. You give the most talented
coach or GM all the resources you need, it's turned
(08:08):
into not very fair fight out here. No, it's not
all right, John of course, the former NFL scout. So
the Aaron Rodgers Jeopardy thing. So when I moved to
Vegas years ago, I was, you know, twenty something, early twenties,
and I wrote about this in my first book, You
Heard Me. I first got there and I was a
(08:30):
huge Pack twelve football fan, Washington Husky fan, and then
I'd go bet on the Huskies, and if they did lose,
it ruined my weekend. I lost my bet and my
team lost, and so I started buying what I thought
of a sports insurance. I always bet against my favorite team,
so if they lost, I won money mostly not all
(08:51):
the time, and if they wont, I was happy and
I wasn't making I made seventy eight hundred dollars my
first year out of college, eleven tho eight hundred my second.
That wasn't a lot of money third two years ago.
So what I did is I always felt like I
was I was buying insurance, emotional insurance. And I said
it this week about Aaron Rodgers. You can when you're
(09:12):
faced with a challenge, you can do two things. You
can deny it, or you can create a new reality.
So Aaron Rodgers has now been with Green Bay forever.
He can deny that they're never really going to go
and be aggressive with free agency. They're just not, even
when his salary was small, They're just not. Or he
(09:33):
can create a new reality or what I would call
mental insurance. Well, green Bay, you're kind of into me,
and so I'm kind of going to be into you.
I want to do Jeopardy and I think it's it's
actually from a mental health standpoint. What Aaron saying is
you're into me. You are into me like ninety percent
(09:53):
eighty five percent Tampa's one hundred percent to Tom. You know,
so I'm gonna be nine percent eighty five percent in you,
and I'm gonna do Jeopardy and I'd really not that,
not that he doesn't want to do it, but if
they went out and kept Corey Linsley and they got
JJ Watt and they kept Jared Cook and they and
they kept I don't think he'd do it. I think
he would feel like, hey, they have completely committed to me.
(10:18):
I'm not going to be disrespectful, but I think part
of him saying, f you, you guys draft a quarterback
instead of get players. We've got dogged by the Niners twice,
so I'm kind of going to be into you. Yeah.
I think it's human nature to be spiteful after that
moment that happened to him last year with the drafting
the quarterback, because the way that the NFL works, And
(10:38):
I would say, I mean, I've been in businesses. You're
where the management that believes in you and when management
leaves that may not think the same about you. You
can tell the difference, even if you're a quarterback making
thirty thirty five million dollars. He went through it. Here's
the sad part. He's a cheat code in this offense.
Colin this offense which has taken the league by storm.
The Shanahan zone. You know, running game, embracing the running game,
(11:01):
the boot, the play action stuff. It's Jared goff. Sean
mcvagh couldn't get rid of Jared goffass enough because he's going,
I'm getting guys wide open and you can't hit just
basic throws. Well, this offense gets guy's wide open. You
have someone who's talented, Aaron Rodgers, you run away win
the MVP with ease. I mean, it wasn't really a
competition by the end of the year. But like you said,
the organization we need we needed a wide receiver. We
(11:23):
still need a wide receiver. And what do we have
to show for just Davante still And what's he supposed
to do Because this isn't the NBA. He can't just pound.
They just say screw you, kick rocks from not trading you.
This isn't like Kyrie Irving, I gotta go and they
trade him. That's not the way football works. So he's
kind of stuck and Aaron smart, he understands that his
contract still has a couple of years, so he has
(11:46):
to make the best of it. I like that the
analogy you use. I think there's truth to it. I
also just think that the Jordan love moment for a
guy who has been anointed, even they think he's better
than far he basically has the same resume. They both
won one, you know, super Bowl. But when they did
that and then for that kid to show up and
(12:07):
let's face it, he stinks he did at least his
first year, he couldn't beat out the backup quarterback reports
where he couldn't mean skipping ball. It was atrocious that
that to me, if you're Aaron is Lafloor and Goodikins,
it would be hard to look at him the same
even though that you know that they need you, and
they could back pedal now and say that we're all
in on Eron, like I saw your true colors, you
(12:27):
thought I was done right. That happened a little bit
to Tom and he never forgot it. Ultimately, Jimmy got
pushed out of town. They still want and Tom always
wanted to leave because I can't imagine at that level
you win that big you feel you've carried the franchise.
I mean, part of the thing with McCarthy was like,
you know, I think this guy's the meat head. I'm
the brains behind it, and we're always you know who's
(12:48):
telling the truth, Aaron and kind of Aaron. You know
that 's pretty well for Aaron, right, the McCarthy thing,
and clearly the flour. I think Lafloor is good and
the offense is fantastic for Aaron, and Aaron knows that.
But it's not like they surround him. I mean, look
at the Niners are constantly just chasing players, trying to
do stuff, adding offensive players. Look at Sean mcvayh adding
guys doing whatever it takes. Maybe that's out of Gudikins
(13:11):
and Lafour's hands. I mean, I'm sure it is just
their ownership situation, but it's not ideal for having just
this transcendent talent now who's back in the peak of
his powers. You know those hot takes you post on
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(14:35):
this weekend, and it is shocking I have said this.
We got five quarterbacks that are going in the first round.
My prediction is the two that will be successful Trevor
Lawrence and whoever the Niners take. Yeah, I've been told,
and I was a denier they're taking Mac Jones and
(14:55):
it wouldn't be who I would take, but I do
think he will be s what's successful because it's a
perfect situation. Now, do I think you know the other
guys could be more successful? Well, but we'll never know, right.
It's like you don't know the president you don't elect.
You don't know how it would have been, right, better
or worse, the girl you don't date. Whatever. Yeah, you
(15:17):
have no clue, right, Right, So I do think mac
Jones because it's perfect, we'll have some success. I don't.
I don't see super Bowl success. But you're in the
Bay Area. A source I trust now says it is
an eighty twenty mac Jones lead. Well, I just want
to start with this. He is known as the guy
with the highest floor of that group of Trey Lance,
(15:40):
of Justin Fields and mac Jones. There's no such thing
as a high floor for a quarterback prospect unless you
were like Andrew Luck maybe Trevor Lawrence. Right, the bus
potential on quarterbacks is really high because most of them,
it typically is intangible. Right, it's his work, ethic, his
ability to process, his its ability to handle the pressure,
(16:01):
the pressure that comes at being drafted number three. And
then on top of that, if you don't have great
physical tools, with Mac by far has the least physical
the best you know, if you just ranked the physical
skill set of the top five guys, he's the bottom,
and I don't think it's really close. I actually think
Colin they're gonna take Trey Lance. I talked to an
NFL exec this week who thought, when you watch Trey
(16:21):
Lance and things he does well throw on the move, physically,
what Kyle's talked about our big high end athletes, if
you had your choice, He went on record a couple
weeks ago when they made the trade and said, if
you could choose, which we kind of can now, you
ideally always take the bigger, faster, stronger guy. And if
you look at the guys on Kyle's teams even historically
that they've had success with Julio Jones, Trent Williams, who
(16:43):
the Shanahan's draft and then he brought back. Trent Williams
is six foot six, three hundred thirty pounds, runs like
a running back, took a year off, came back, made
a Pro Bowl like those are Kyle Shanahan has known
for this. Kirk Kirk Cousins was a fourth round pick.
They just mortgage the entire future. Picked twelve two other rounders.
That would be like taking your entire life savings and
then just investing it into like a pretty safe ETF. Right,
(17:07):
Usually when you take your entire life savings, you would
take a pretty big risk on something like It's to
take a pretty bold move if you're going to take
all the money and make the move and let it
instead of just letting it sit there. Because I would
say mac Jones every single year there are Mac Jones
in the second and third round. And if you've got
Kyle Shanahan, wouldn't you just use that value to do that?
They did try to do that three four years ago
(17:29):
with CJ. Bethard, a plug in play pro style quarterback
from Iowa High Floor Colony was terrible. So to me,
the more I've talked just two different people in the league,
if you read what Kyle is actually and listen to
what Kyle's actually said, now that doesn't mean anything. At
this time of year, people lie to me. Trey Lance,
high character guy represented by Tom Condon, who represents the Mannings,
(17:52):
the Breezes, the Staffords, all the high level guys, is
only twenty years old. Who is just this raw product?
Do you have a lot to work with if you
are going to keep Jimmy, which again they might be lying,
but if they truly take him at their word, they
would keep him. Wouldn't Trey Lance be the guy that
you kind of work with, Keep behind Jimmy for a year,
see how it goes. He's only started a year. You
don't know how he's gonna look. Because if you take
(18:14):
mac Jones, if they do that, which I definitely think
as a possibility, I think he has to start. You
can't take the highest flour guy and then have him
sit for a year. What the hell are we doing right?
That guy would have to play immediately. If you take
mac Jones, if you take Trey Lance, you can justify
it to people. I think if you take mac Jones,
for everything Kyle has built around here and he has
(18:37):
a lot of equity. People think very, very highly of him,
even though when you look, he's only had one successful season.
But if you watch him every week and last year
they won six games, he was fantastic. He was excellent.
Given how many injuries they had, how Jimmy disappeared for
all these games, I think he would lose a lot
of that at the moment he took mac Jones. Now, ultimately,
on Draft night, nothing doesn't mean anything. You win games,
(18:59):
no one will care, but I think people would question.
I think it would be one of the most arrogant
picks in the history of the league. See that's what
I say. It's like. It's it's like what the Bears
did with Trubisky. When people there are scouts that think
mac Jones is a third round pick. There were guys
that didn't think Trubisky was a top three round pick.
When scouts are divided and you trade multiple first to
(19:23):
move up, that's like what Josh McDaniel then with Tebow.
I'm smarter than all you guys. It's like, no, no, no no, no, no,
no no. If you want, if you can draft Mac
Jones at twelve, that's one thing. If you trade multiple first,
you're saying he's a generational talent. Aren't you twofold? Here?
Who would the Rams in Seattle sign up? For them
(19:43):
to take it'd have to be Mac Jones over Justin
Fields or Trey Lance and their potential right, They would
much rather have a guy the Niners have kicked the
Rams asked the last two years. They beat him four
straight games because Jared Goff can't scrip, he can't move,
and the Niners have a you know, vicious pass rush.
They're just aggressive on defense and they ate him alive. Well,
Jared Goff, he's long gone. They want a guy with
(20:05):
a little more athletic ability, a little more playmaking ability.
Russell Wilson has kicked the Niners ask for it almost
a decade because he's just so mobile. Kyle's now had
a front row seat for four years. And here's the
other thing to meet Kyle's stubbornness. If he were to
take mac Jones, which again I am hesitant to think
that it's just some lock because he's had a four
year front row seat, and when he got the job,
his experience was based on having success with Shob and
(20:28):
then he loved Kirk Cousins and then Matt Ryan. But
then he had four years to kind of live with
a Jimmy who's kind of in that type mold not
as good as Matt Ryan, but probably similar to Kirk Cousins.
And it's been up and down. Even when they were good,
he had one of the best teams in the league.
Jimmy wasn't one of the best quarterbacks in the league,
but he was fine. He was like a game manager.
Top ten to fifteen you went through four years of
(20:49):
seeing all this, He's got his ass kicked by Mahomes
and the Super Bowl at the end last super Bowl
last year, Josh Allen put on a clinic against him.
Kyler has given them fits for a couple of years,
and then you make this decision. Like part of being
a head coach, as you get to learn right, you
get to kind of see the whole thing. Take a
step back. You're evaluating offense and defense. Who in your division.
You're not just the offensive coordinator. You're thinking about the
(21:09):
quarterback on the other team. You know what work. That's
part of what makes belichicko especially plays his CEO, but
he's also that he also can coach every position and
understands it all. And I think Kyle gets kind of
labeled as that type guy too. I just it would
be nuts. Now. Could they have success with Mac Jones,
for sure, because Kyle is a great coach offensive weapons,
But to me that just because a guy is a
(21:32):
high floor doesn't mean he's gonna be good, you know.
I mean Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins has had success. But
do we all believe if Josh Allen was in Minnesota,
they'd be better. They'd be ways of course, and Kirk
Cousins part of it. It took him a long like
he's I give him credit. Last year he was pretty good.
He had one of the best rookie wide receivers we'd
(21:53):
ever seen. Dalvin Cook is probably a top two running
back last year in the league. Yeah, yeah, feelings a stud.
They have good tight ends. Their coordinators the last couple
of years have been good. They've just been a high
level offensive operating. Cousins is solid because it's also thirty
thirty one years old. He remember when he was like
twenty four twenty five, We're like, god, this guy, what
are we doing here? If you yeah, but Kirk Cousins
(22:13):
was a fourth round pick. If Mac looked like that
at twenty four to twenty five, and you go, wait,
you just traded three first rounders for this guy. Part
of trading two first rounders for Matt Stafford is just
knowing we got a guy that can do a lot
of different things, and you know that. Part of Mac
Jones is like you traded your life savings for that.
It is you know the other and now and let's
(22:36):
so let's say they do that. Let's say it goes
Trevor Lawrence, Sack Wilson and Mac Jones. So it's interesting.
I don't think Atlanta needs a quarterback and they obviously
are a mess defensively, but then Justin Fields from Georgia
falls to four and there's gonna be media pressure, and
(22:59):
to me, I don't want to be in that spot
if I'm Atlanta and not take him. And I've said this,
sometimes in life you do something to protect yourself. Yeah right,
you just okay, you just you just you just protect
your career. You take you know, it's it's years ago.
I had Mark Warkin team told me this. If if
(23:19):
you're a coin flip on an international player and a
guy that was great in March Madness, and you you're
scouting department as coin flip, you take the guy that
was great in March Madness because the owner watched him play.
The owner will be like, well, and then you can
go five years later and go you know, I mean
you saw him, he was unbelievable. The international guy bombs,
(23:43):
It's like you're gonna have to really fight for your
so you do it. If it's a coin flip, you
take the kid from Kansas over you know, the Ukrainian
forward if you think they're just even and I and
and I think it was I think it was Mark
who talked about kind of the gamesmanship of who you
have to draft. And it may not have marked, but
it was. I was told that by somebody that if
(24:03):
it's a coin flip and the owner's barking at you,
take the guy the owner. Why well, it's why Justin
Fields right now is the easy pick for the Niners
would get. The fans would celebrate it, Atlanta would celebrate it.
To me, he has a little bit of an NBA
type feel to him. Ohio State five star. We've seen
him and he's talented. So no one's gonna hate it
(24:23):
on draft night now. But if Atlanta is not at
four they've traded out, yeah, then you can't say and
they and they get three firsts, nobody's gonna say anything
because there'll be a better football team. Arthur Smith, the
new coach, will make Matt Ryan better. And if you
get three four picks, So to protect yourself as a
general manager, I don't want to be at four and
(24:46):
Justin Fields is available. Your thoughts on that, I don't
hate it. I think that if you think Arthur Smith
is really good, and he was excellent the last couple
of years in Tennessee, like he was big time. You
feel with Matt Ryan and the offensive pieces you have,
and if you get the pick right at four, maybe
you could compete for the playoffs, right, you could compete
to win nine ten games, then no one will care.
(25:08):
That would be the way you would try to justify
it that our offense is going to be so good.
We get Arthur in here, if he's singing Matt Ryan's
praises that Matt Ryan I think has headed toward the
wrong you know, you know, his trajectory's pointing down, not
up anymore, which I think we've gotten spoiled with Tom
who's forty three and just keeps going strong like Philip Rivers,
Drew Breese like that's usually what it looks like at
thirty eight, thirty nine forty. Ben Roethlisberger like this is
(25:31):
I mean, when you were a kid at like thirty two,
they started getting old right in the seventies and the eighties.
Now it's like thirty nine, thirty eight, forty, Like that's
not normal. Now Matt Ryan's thirty five, you're gonna be
I think thirty six. Maybe you can justify he still
has some good football, but that would be risky because
if it doesn't go well like you said, and you
did not take him, and you take let's say a
tackle or let's say you take Kyle Pitts and Matt
(25:53):
Ryan is just Matt and that kid goes someone trades
up and gets him and he's good. It's hard to
shake because back to the Niners, whoever you don't take
and goes after it. You saw last year with Miami
and Tua. That next guy is part of that kid's conversation,
like part of Tua's conversation is Herbert, part of whoever
the Niners take the two guys they could have take.
If one of those two guys becomes good, is part
(26:15):
of the conversation. That's like the elephant in the room.
It's part of being at really high pick is usually sweet.
Players go after you and they get associated with your name.
We could have had so and so, and that's sometimes
gets coaches fired. You know, it's interesting, I was just
next year, this is a great quarterback draft. We all
(26:36):
know that next year is not a great quarterback draft.
Keidon Slovis is the quarterback at USC Yeah, many people
are saying he's one of the two best quarterbacks. Well,
slovis likable kid, throws a nice ball, does not have
a huge arm, is not a great athlete. His greatest
asset is he walked on as a true freshman and
(26:58):
just looked like he long no nervous feat. He's got
kind of a cool kind of unfazed by pressure. It's
very noticeable day for those guys I saw thrown at
the Pro day. I like that guy. Yeah, now he
gets hurt. Yeah, he's not a great athlete. He's got
an average arm. He's considered the number one or the
(27:19):
number two quarterback. JT. Daniels out of Georgia, who was
at USC is in the top three. He's done nothing right.
And I keep saying this. I was shocked more people
weren't in on Darnald. And my takeaway was, if you
were Washington or Chicago and you can't get one of
these guys, what's on the market next year? There's nothing.
(27:44):
Darnald would easily be the top quarterback in next year's draft.
He's twenty three. So when Carolina and I kind of
got that one right, I kind of predicted Carolina I
was surprised Washington didn't go after him. I was surprised Chicago,
I would surprise Denver. I mean your takeaway on Darnold
(28:05):
to Carolina. I think it's gonna work. To what level,
I don't know, but I think it'll work. I think
sometimes it probably works for any walk of life being
in a negative situation, whether it's you know, a bad
relationship that all your people in town know about, whether
it's a business that goes wrong, whether it's a situation
like the Jets that is just a dumpster fire. You
get associated with that, even if you might have been
(28:27):
somewhat innocent in the situation. Now, he made some bad
places throughout his time, but let's face it, the Jets
were an abomination their GM. Before Joe Douglas got there
was a laughing stock in the league. Adam Gaze became legitimate.
Like he didn't talk with other people, like how uncomfortable
from people that I talked to in that building. Of
(28:47):
just the way he operated was a joke. And you
put a guy who's a high level everyone likes him,
who's like best friends with Josh Allen, who again went
to a great place, a high functioning place, and it
has a lot of success. Now I'm not saying Darnold
has the same skill set. Josh is more talented, but
I think that that like he got like Adam Gae,
(29:08):
almost had the jet stink on him, where I've bet
a lot of people just three years ago loved him.
Had maybe not top five grades, but let's say a
guy would have taken him no problem at pick twelve
or fifteen or whatever, and then just three years later, yeah,
we don't he's not worth the second round pick where
it's gonna come back to buy them because how often
do distressed assets go for cheap? And like, oh if
I could have bought that building, it was so cheap.
(29:29):
Well yeah, I mean we all knew it. This guy
was right here, he was there to be had to me,
you're gonna take Zach Wilson, who has spent his entire
life in Utah, who came out of nowhere. His first
two years weren't great. He had some character, would be strong,
but like Josh Rosen just bump heads with people, had
just a good self opinion right of himself and just
(29:54):
kind of cocky, and he's just gonna You're just gonna
take him out of a lifetime Utah guy. It's a
New York City, small Utah guy into BYU. So one
thing been protected, one thing for Sam Darnold. He had
no issues with dealing with New York right, it was
just the football situation. I got the mono. But I
mean that probably could happen to anybody. I think that's
a pretty bold move. And I talked to someone who
(30:15):
worked with Joe Douglas and I said, why would Joe
be so head over heels because Robert Salo is not
making this pick the gm is And he said, well,
Joe was born and raised in the Ravens culture, and
in the Ravens culture. Ozzie knew some Billick those years
with ray Lewis Edree. They draft sugs, even Flacco and
Kuombolden like they like cocky, They kind of like that.
(30:38):
And He's like, I bet Joe kind of likes that
about Zach Wilson. And it just shows you, like, depending
on how you kind of come up and then become
a GM we all look for different things in different players.
I mean, you look at different things in players than
I would. It's just people we've been as we talked
and taught us the game and the way we think
about it, and he just likes that. I think it's
a huge stretch. On top of this, he played this
(31:00):
season typically by you as a good schedule, right, they're
playing a ton of Pack twelve schools. They just play powerhouse.
They have no problem playing anybody. Well, that wasn't possible
this year with Corona. They played a schedule full of
nobody's and he was the best player every time they
got in the field. That's a big projection. I mean,
there's a big difference between playing Brian Flores and Sean
McDermott in September than playing you know, Nevada and New
(31:23):
Mexico back to back weeks, right, and the pressure of
New York. There's also this. I had someone in the
league tell me this and it was a good point.
He said. Time zones are a big deal for rookie
players because if you're on if you're in Philly or
Washington or New York and things start going bad, well
if you want to call a guy, if you get
(31:43):
up and you got some time and you want to
call someone, well they're not up. Like your family, maybe
your ex girlfriend, maybe you're a good friends still on
the team, your times are all off. If it's six
o'clock and you're at home, well it's three o'clock. Your
buddy might be at practice, your dad's at work, or whatever.
It's harder to have that support system when you're three
time zones away from where you grew up, and it
can feel very lonely in these negative areas like negativity.
(32:07):
I live in the Bay Area, you live in LA.
It's not that negative about like the Lakers or the
Niners or the Giants. It's just it's easy. Well, people
are happier out west because the weather is better, you
know what I mean. It's in New York and Philly
and Boss. Oh, it's a big deal. Yeah, And I
think it can overwhelm these like in Utah it's happy
and you play at Cow or you play at USC
(32:28):
it's a happier place. You go out there, it's people
are pissed off, and I think it can overwhelm a guy.
You can feel isolated that there's no one. It's a
huge jump, and it's hard enough as it is. Right,
it's hard to make a jump from college football to
pro football. Well, just in a vacuum by itself. When
you start factoring all the other things. That's I think
that's a big stretch at two overall. I don't know,
(32:49):
you know, John, you know what the angry thing is funny,
So I always had here's one of my crazy theories.
So when I was out east for eleven years, one
of the richest communities in the East Coast is West
Palm in Florida. It's like the uber rich Marlago, that
kind of thing. I think that's where Jeffrey Lury conducted
all of his interviews for the Eagles. He has a
house there. Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at who
(33:13):
owns the houses, they are litigators, huge lawyers, so you're
fighting in court or their money guys. They're Wall Street
guys where there's a winner and a loser. I buy
a stock, you lose. It's very competitive out east. The
money comes from traditional combative industries out west. Where are
(33:35):
the richest places out west? You know Silicon Valley, you
know Medinah, Washington, Beverly Hills. Who owns houses there? Tech, Hollywood,
those are creation businesses. People are happier. West Coast money
(33:59):
big money from a half year place, Netflix, Hollywood, I mean,
go up and down, Microsoft, Google, bring your dog to work,
And I said this. When I was out east, it
was a lot of people my age thirty or forty.
They were chasing their grandfathers or their dad's dreams for them.
(34:21):
Out West, my buddies who have done well are chasing
their dreams. Yeah, they're going after what they want. And
it's interesting you mentioned that with Zach Wilson. Anger does
sell Boston, Philly, New York radio. Anger moves. You listen
to people calling those shows at three thirty in the afternoon,
blue collar guy is pissed. I turn on LA radio.
(34:44):
People are funny, They're happy, they're they're like, you get
genuinely funny calls. People aren't angry. Sounds weird. You sound like,
why are you so angry? At seventy four degrees today?
So it is interesting when you get into that tunnel
of anger in the East Coast, it can overwhelm you.
If you're a West Coast guy, I wouldn't have known.
(35:06):
You always hear about it, but until you live out there.
When I moved to Philly, i'd spent my whole life
in California. It's it's like a different country. Even though
we're all Americans, we're all taxpaying citizens. No, we don't
have that much in common. Now, if you're an aspirational individual,
you actually I know, I'm sure you can agree. You
appreciate some of the elements over there. There's some emergency
(35:28):
about everything, and I related a lot to certain elements
of the people. But there is an anger level that
is just does not parallel this area. And I think
Sportstock Radio. I remember just turning it on while I
was like in the office with the Eagles, and they
were just every it was relentless, win or lose. They
weren't happy just because you win and losses. They kind
(35:49):
of live for when you lose. On the West Coast,
if the Dodgers won seventy five games or or the
Golden State Warriors missed the playoffs, no one cares. You
know what it is, John, out here, it's not anger,
it's indifference. It's apathy. Yeah, So when you lose out West,
we'll just go to the beach. There's other stuff to do.
Like in Los Angeles, nobody's angry. It's just indifference. It's like, Okay,
(36:09):
we don't care. There is pressure to win in LA
because people will stop coming to the stadium. But nobody's
taken signs. No. But I mean they're mad in La
or in San Diego because the Chargers left. But it's
not palpable. You don't feel it. See. I think that's
a benefit for Trevor Lawrence the Jags now that they
get a real coach, much softer landing spot than the
(36:32):
Jets for Trevor. You know, if Trevor was going to
fail in the NFL, the Jets situation, first time head coach,
it could be overwhelming the Jags least relevant team in
the league. Urban Meyer just even though he's never coached
in the league, he knows what he's doing. Much softer
landing spot. He actually got very lucky. I think that
it ultimately changed at the end of the season. He
(36:54):
didn't end up having to good in New York. All right, buddy,
So I'm gonna have a cocktail. I'm playing wake up.
You know what I had to sit through a couple
of hours or that boring Masters Dodger win. It's great
talking any thanks for coming on. All right. That's my buddy.
(37:15):
John Middelcoff knows his stuff, knows his stuff. We have
Drew Rosenhouse, the super Agent's going to be on this week.
Oh then we have a really good guest, really good
guests coming up. I'm not going to give it to
you listen. There's no mystery. Why the hell would you listen?
Gotta give you some mystery, right, Life's better with mystery anyway.
(37:37):
At The Volume Sports, Twitter, and Instagram, rate review, subscribe,
Have a good Monday. The Volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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