April 17, 2021 • 32 mins
This is Prime Cuts! (4/12 - 4/16) The best moments from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Some really interesting interviews this week... Colin talks to 5-time Pro Bowler and current NFL Network Analyst Steve Smith Sr. about Julian Edelman's HOF resume, why he doesn't miss the camaraderie in the NFL, and his battle with mental health issues (0:45). Super agent Drew Rosenhaus joins the show, with an amazing draft night story about one of his clients, and he breaks down why the entire landscape of college football is about to change forever (16:00). Former NFL Scout John Middlekauff comes on to talk Draft, and his disbelief about the 49ers' plans with the number 3 pick. (27:20).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the
Colin Coward Podcast. This week, some strong interviews. Steve Smith
Senior with his take on Julian Edelman's Hall of Fame
(00:21):
resume and as brutally on his take on how he
approaches relationships in the NFL. Drew Rosenhouse not only unbelievable stories,
but tells us how the college football landscape is about
to change in a big way. Finally, John Middlecoff full
of info, weighs in on the niners questionable plans to
draft Mac Jones. All right, I'm gonna bring on Steve
(00:44):
Smith Senior, fifteen years, five Pro Bowls. We'll talk to
some football. His appreciation for Julian Edelman interesting cat. Steve
Smith joins us, Listen, when I think of you, I
think you're a Hall of Famer, and what I think
about you and appreciate as you're tough and so. And
I made an argument for Edelman this week, and I said, listen, man,
there's gotta be more than one way to the Hall
(01:06):
of Fame. I said, Jason Garrett has a higher winning
percentence to Jimmy Johnson. Who's the better coach? And I said,
Sandy Kofax only had three great years, but he was
the best pitcher in the history of the game for
three years. Marionno Rivera only has eighty two wins, But
the Yankees don't get a World Series with Joe Torry
(01:28):
if he doesn't pitch the last outs. And so I
look at Edelman and I say, Okay, his numbers don't
stack like Calvin Johnson. But when you played for the Patriot, Steve,
there are no junkyards because with seven minutes to go,
you lead and you're asked a block. You know, the
Atlanta receivers trail shit, it's done. But junkyards the last
(01:50):
seven minutes to nine, ten to twelve games a year.
So Edelman's toughness and ability to be great in big
games means a ton to me. I think, give you similarly,
you were better in big games. You were a physical presence.
You would block. That's my argument for Edelman. You know
there's guys in this league they are gonna make the
(02:11):
Hall of Fame, and you and I know they They
didn't like to block. They disappeared in big spots. You know,
they used to say that about basketball players. Some basketball
players hide from the ball with about three minutes left.
Lebron doesn't kobe that, but God that guys hide from
the ball. Now, Now, Edelman's numbers are not yours, They're
not great, But how do you look at Edelman as
(02:32):
a guy that played in this league at a high level,
as a Pro Bowl or five times? You know, it's
it's funny you say it is because you know when
I when they asked me, or when guys like you
asked me, I am caught in the middle, which is
very rare for me. Usually I'm either over here over there.
(02:54):
I'm very I'm really in the middle, and I'm calling
the middle. Is because one spat the heck out of Edelman.
I love his game. I love what he does. He
goes in there. He's a technician. You know he has
benefited from where he played. But here's the problem. He
(03:18):
wasn't given that position. He earned it by working his
way through. He mastered his craft. He used to be
a quarterback. Not everybody can go from quarterback to wide receiver.
Now everybody can go from wide receiver to corner. Right
now everybody can play corner and be a successful wide receiver.
So with all that understanding his body of work, what
(03:41):
I really like about Edelman, which a lot of times
people don't want to really talk about, which is, you know,
we talk about some of these players in the league,
we talk about what they did in the playoffs, but
then they say, well, a guy didn't do that much
in the season. I agree, But then we talk about
(04:03):
guys who have had a fantastic regular season and unfortunately,
not to their fault or their detchman, they never got
an opportunity to playing the playoffs. But then what about
the guys who have played in the playoffs and didn't
show up right? And so when I look at Edelman,
I just look at him from what I know and
(04:25):
what I respect of wide receivers, and I respect them all. Now,
I don't agree all of them are great. I don't
believe all of them are Hall of famers. I don't
believe some of the whoevers are the top echelon that
are on the laundry list of greats. I'm not gonna
say that this guy is better than that guy. But
(04:46):
there are some guys where I'm like, okay, right, because
I am supposed to respect my elders, and I shall
respect my elders. But then I also look at Alman,
I go. I love his numbers, and I love what
he did when it count them most. What you do
in a regular season just builds you up to when
you hit the playoffs and you in a groove. Edelman
(05:07):
was always that guy you can count them. You know
Carolina really well? Some days I do. I actually think
Darnald fits Matt ruland Brady Robbie Anderson. They want to
be more of a big play offense, throw it down
the field. Teddy's not a big arm guy. Sam's bigger, stronger,
more athletic. He's more of a risk taker. I think
(05:29):
it works to what level I don't know, but I
would argue I think Carolina's offensive talent outside of left
tackle it's pretty good. I think Dj Moore is a
pretty good player. So I mean you, I'm sure you
watched Carolina last year. Can they be viable? Can Darnald
fit quickly? Will will? It's at a system you can
(05:49):
learn quickly with Matt ruland Brady Well. What I love
about why I think it's a good fit is because,
let's be honest, people are like, man, I don't I
don't see it. I don't understand why you bring in
Sam Donald. That's stupid. The problem is is it fair
(06:10):
to evaluate a quarterback that's on the team, that's on
the team who is trying to get themselves together. The
young man has been under duress from day one. It's
not It's not fair to him, right. You know, quarterbacks
are one of these things. Quarterbacks when they when winning,
(06:30):
quarterbacks get all the glory and when losing to a
certain extent, you know, sometimes they want to place blame.
But but my blame is not the players. It's Look
how good Robbie Anderson has looked here in Carolina versus
what he looked like with the Jets. Look at I
(06:53):
want to see what Sam Donald can do when he
has time and not under dressed. We have never seen
a quarterback performed well under pressure under durest. Probably one
of the best young talents we got out here, and
we just saw him play in the Super Bowl where
he did not accumulate four hundred and ninety seven yards.
(07:13):
That's how many yards he ran around for his life
into super patrol Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes in losing, so
he did not accumulate four hundred ninety seven yards rushing.
Now that's how many yards. He ran around for his life, right,
and that says something. So if Patrick Mahomes is not
(07:35):
effective under Durest, why isn't it Sam Donald? Is he
gonna be effective under Durest? How are you gonna say, said,
go five step dropping three steps into your five step drop.
You're getting supplex and this is not wwe SmackDown you.
You've actually been really honest about ship. When you played you,
(07:58):
you said you struggled sometime with depression. Yeah, most guys
don't want to Most guys don't want to talk about that,
and so you had some personal battles. Um, and I
don't know if it's a it's a family history. I've
had people in my family that have struggled with that.
You would think you're great, good looking guy, smart, successful, Yeah,
(08:19):
you now that you're working out and looking a little fitter,
you can tell a handsomeness of me. I like. But
it's it's interesting because I wouldn't think. I mean, you
were always a guy that was just resilient, tough, making
catches pro bowls. When did you honestly Steve, was there
a moment for you, an epiphany when you're like, I
need to see a therapist. There's something something I can't.
(08:41):
I can't I can't get my arms around by myself. Well,
what happened was back in two thousand and three, I
was already I had already had a sports psychologist, a
guy who was working with golf players. And so I
had a sports psychologist that I was working with. So
um visilation was always there. UM daily goals, monthly goals,
(09:05):
short term, long term, had all that stuff already mapped
out and and and went through that, had a whole routine.
UM look at looking at my film as data with
no emotions. Right, I had all that stuff and I
and it was built in me. But I struggled because
I was so geared towards data P and L profit
(09:30):
or loss was I created enough passive income for my
family by playing, so when I can when I'm done playing,
I can sit back and enjoy life. Right, So my
mind was always gone. I was either always on or
always off right and so and and just having that pressure. Right,
and so for me, what happened is I I didn't
(09:52):
know and didn't realize the pressure I was putting on myself.
It was causing me to not really enjoy the journey
because of my the way I was raised and what
I went through and what I experienced, right, and it's
something I just connected the dots with is by the
age of eighteen, I felt pretty insignificant. It was in me.
(10:20):
I felt already insignificant. So for me, playing ball was
me playing ball. I always wanted to play ball, but
outside of playing ball, I was always trying to figure
things out. Things didn't always equal up or make sense. So,
you know, I struggled with that. And then you add
(10:42):
not addressing it. You're playing ball, keep suppressing it, keep
suppressing it. And I just struggled with it. And so
when I started doing counseling just not for when I
stopped doing counseling on in sports and I just started
doing counseling on figuring things out. I started going back Chris,
and I was going, oh, because I was always uptight, right,
(11:06):
And you know, I remember when I tore my achilles
in Baltimore, you know, and I'm and I'm on you know,
the medication from from from from the surgery. Man, I remember,
and I and I remember, and I was like and
I woke up like in the middle of the night,
and I remember saying, man, if I would have just
(11:26):
caught these passes. And you know when you have after surgery,
you're always kind of that medicine does some stuff to you, right,
And I remember I was able to recite when I
woke up middle nine. I was able to recite every
ball that I dropped. And if I didn't drop that ball,
I wouldn't be playing right now. I would not be
(11:51):
playing right now. That means I would not have torn
my achilles, because I would have had those thousand receptions
you were just eating yourself up in the hospital room.
And if I would have got those styles of receptions,
I would have quit playing last year the year before.
(12:13):
And so then I wouldn't you know, you see what
I'm saying. And so I just went down the rabbit hole,
and the medication I was on it had me just
like I was like, I mean, if this is if
this is the memories, and I was just like I was.
I was in it. I mean waved out. I got
a dog. But and you ever seen a dog digging
(12:36):
in the dirt, That's where I was. I was digging
through the dirt and the mess, and I was getting
filthy inside my head, inside my heart of where I
was and I was just like, man, this this ain't good.
And so that's why when I stepped away. I stepped
away really my sixteenth year. I was like, man, I
didn't want to go play for another team. I didn't
(12:57):
want to keep, you know, being away this year. I'm
in Baltimore for three years and I go played two
years somewhere else and play maybe another year. And I
was like, man, decide what you're gonna do. And so
that's that's one of the reasons why. And that's and
that's what I was able to figure out. And so
it was like, you know, did I want to play, Yeah,
(13:18):
but wanting to play and understanding I needed to stop
playing that was more important. Yeah, do you miss it?
Miss what? Just do you miss the camaraderie the dudes?
You know? Not really, because here's the thing. I made
myself unapproachable to where I had this guard up where
(13:42):
I didn't want friends because I didn't I was here
to do one thing, just play ball. I wouldn't here
to be if I wasn't here to be her friend.
Because when I turned it on on the light switch
and I played ball and go against defenders, I don't
give a fuck about your family. I don't care how
your wife as kids are doing. I'm here to kick
your ass bottom. Yeah, and so having that, you know,
(14:07):
And then when I got to Baltimore, I realized, man,
just slow down a little bit. And so that's where
it wasn't. Baltimore was such a significantly better place. I
was in a better mind frame, justin for set. Great guy,
Anthony Levine, great guy, Thomas Davis, great guy, um Mike Tolber,
great guy. I mean, so many great, fantastic players that
(14:31):
I played with, but they didn't really I didn't appreciate
or make them feel appreciate it because I was just
so focused on kicking ass and taking names that I
was tough to be around. But I was okay being
alone because alone fed into the anger of playing ball
the way I played. You know those hot takes you
(14:54):
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(16:04):
is Drew Rosenhouse. I would classify him as a super agent,
the founder of Rosenhouse Sports Representation more than thirty years
is a sports agent and he still looks good. Yeah.
In nineteen eighty nine, at the age of twenty two
years old, and I'll be honest, I was a little
bit of a cynic, good looking guy slick Miami, but
(16:25):
I kept talking to people and they're like, no, Drew's great.
Remember I had a conversation with Rich McKay one time.
He's like, he gets right to it. There's no bullshit.
Drew and I our conversations or eight to ten minutes.
I wish there were ten Drew rosenhouses. I am no
longer a cynic but a fan, and he's joining us now.
It is funny though, when you first came out, I
(16:46):
was like, boy, this guy, he's fast talking. Did you sense, Drew,
you were so different than the classic older model that
you a lot of people. You got some blowback? Did
you sense it? Oh? Yeah, you know. I intentionally try
to be different Colin. It was a very competitive business.
(17:08):
When I broke in in nineteen eighty eight, I was
twenty two years old. I was a second year law
student from Duke University School of Law, and it was
it was an established industry. It wasn't as balanced as
it is today. It was really dominated by a handful
of agents at that time, and I figured for me
to make an aim for myself, I had to be different.
(17:32):
In those days. I was certainly brash. I did use
the media to my advantage and it did make quite
a few enemies in the aging business. At one time
I was on the cover of Sports Illustrated known as
the most heeda man in pro football. But listen, that
was good for business and quite frankly, just being in
(17:57):
the eye of the media early on, established MEWS a
known commodity, and being based here in South Florida, I
was able to really capitalize on all the terrific players
down here. Who was the first established agent that wasn't
an enemy that put his arm around you, that actually
reached out? And I probably took a while, but was
(18:18):
there one or two guys that reached out in the
first There were not a one that there still aren't any.
Just the guys who worked with me, my brother, Jason,
Robert Bailey, Ryan Math are the only agents that I
consider to be friends. This is such a hyper competitive business,
(18:39):
Colin that I probably have had a client leave all
the top agents to come to me, and I'd probably
have had a client that's left me to sign with
another of the top agents. It's just it's a war
zone out there. The recruiting is very cut throat, and
there really isn't much margin for friendship among your competitors.
(19:03):
It's really unique because there's no second place, there's nothing
for runner up. I mean, you know, you could beat
out one hundred agents and finished number two to get
a player, and that means absolutely fuckers. I mean, you know,
zero nothing. And I can tell you as a result
of that, it's a highly competitive business and you're out
(19:26):
to beat beat the competitive agents and you really don't
have time. It's not beneficial to be friendly with the
guys that you're competing with. Give me, give me an
incident since nineteen eighty nine in the draft, were your
phone rings right right before a pick? Has that ever happened? Oh? Yeah,
(19:47):
I mean with Willis mcgahey. He was a young man
who blew his knee out in the college national championship game,
the Fiesta Ball, against Ohio State, and he was on
the draft H and Colin. Quite quite frankly, there wasn't
a lot of calls for Willis in the early to
(20:09):
mid portion of the first round, and ESPN kept flashing him.
So I decided the next time they flashed him on TV,
instead of him sitting there looking board waiting for the
phone to ring, I would call him. So it looked
like he was on the phone with team. So I
called from my cell phone. I called Willis. We're talking
to each other. Willis is on the phone. All of
(20:30):
a sudden, my call waiting goes through and it's it's
the Buffalo Bills. And at that time, the Bills were
curious who Willis was talking to, and I wouldn't tell
them who he was talking to. I just said, you know,
use your imagination, and and they assumed it was another team,
(20:50):
and they decided that if he was on the phone
with another club, there was a good chance he was
going to be picked. And not long after I spoke
to them, they drafted Willis. So, believe it or not,
I think that it's something to do with them taking him.
You want to create the impression at all times that
your clients about to get selected. This is about to
(21:11):
blow up, though. We're about to go into a whole
new world in college football with agents and marketing people.
And it's called nil name, image, and likeness. In the
state of Florida, on July first, Florida passed the law
that college athletes can begin to enter into endorsement agreements
(21:34):
and have marketing deals based on their name, image and likeness.
So college players are gonna be able to make money.
They're going to be able to do deals with marketing agents.
Agents like myself. We're going to be able to go
out and pture marketing deals for players. So this has
been passed in Florida. The NCAA hasn't ruled on this
(21:56):
yet or they don't have a formal ruling, but it's
coming and it's coming soon, and it's going to change
the whole dynamics of college football because it's inevitable that
college players are going to be able to make money
and deal with agents and have endorsement deals. So get
ready college football and amateurism is going to become professional football. Well,
(22:20):
conservative governors tend to be more pro business. So Florida
to Santas, he's going to pass this, puppy California, Gavin Newsom,
you know, California just frankly, you know, as an attorney,
has more regulations all through our government. So we know
Florida is going to open it up. Where's Texas at,
where's California at on that stuff? Really, Florida and New
(22:42):
Mexico are the only states to my knowledge that have
formally passed the law, but there are quite a few
other states that I've heard that are on the verge
of doing the same. And I'm following this very closely
because when it is permissible, we're going to be, you know,
getting after. We're going to recruit all of the top
(23:03):
college players with marketing deals, and this is going to
be the way of the future. Every top college player
is going to be inundated, inundated with marketing opportunities from
agents like myself, and so colleges and universities are going
to have to deal with that. And you know, college
(23:24):
football is going to be very different moving forward, and
the colleges are going to have to embrace the NIL
because they're gonna need to use it in recruiting. If
a program has alumni that can bring endorsement deals to players,
they're gonna get a lot more deals than for players.
(23:46):
And say a program that doesn't have a relationship with
alumni that have endorsement deals, it's really going to take off. Yeah,
I was gonna say, if I'm Stanford and I know
that's not a football powerhouse, but hell, half their graduates
work at Apple and Google and you tap, I mean, seriously,
I think about that, and I think Apple has a
lot of pack twelve graduates inside their company, and I
(24:09):
would if I was Apple, I'd think, yeah, just go
go take care of Stanford players. I mean, would there
be anything outlawing that. Nope, not that I'm aware of.
And I mean, you look at the University of Central Florida.
You know what's on the back of the players jerseys. Now,
it's not their names, it's their Twitter handle. It's their
Twitter name. And that's brilliant because that is the world
(24:33):
that we are about to enter. Get ready for college
football and their players to make money in. You know,
the top guys are going to make hundreds of thousands
of dollars in the best players are going to start
to really rack up the money in. Hey. I've been
an agent for thirty three years and I've said from
day one, college players should absolutely be able to make
(24:55):
money on endorsements, and that time has finally arrived and
it's going to be a isial in a matter of months.
Anybody ever break your heart, Just break your heart. You
lost a client? Oh yeah, many times I mentioned Michael Irvin.
Michael Irvin was the guy that helped me get started
this business, and I was his agent early in his career.
(25:19):
I was a very young agent and I was in
my early twenties and he was with the Dallas Cowboys
and he became a Pro Bowl player and he decided
to let his young agent go to hire a veteran
agent that was prominent in Dallas who could get him
a lot more contracts. And that was devastating for me.
(25:41):
I couldn't figure that out because you know, I've always
been about you know, your clients are your friends. There's
that bond, like Jerry McGuire, and it was business for Michael,
and that broke my heart. But I grew up quite
a bit and realized that this is a business as well.
But that was a tough one. Yeah, God, and you
were what twenty five, twenty six, yeah, exactly, very young
(26:05):
in my career, never lost the client before that. I
didn't think it was possible that that was a shot
right to the groin. But you know, Michael Irvin was
always a great advocate for mine even after that, and
we've maintained a great relationship to this day and I'll
always be grateful for him. But Michael, if you're listening,
(26:29):
you broke my heart, buddy. What's tougher a girl breaking
up with your Michael Irvin. Well, that's a good one.
I would have to say Michael Irving because you know,
for me, I was a bachelor for a long time
growing up in Miami. I didn't get married till my
(26:50):
mid forties, didn't have children until five years ago. So
I was a little bit of a playboy at the
University of Miami. So for girl broke up with me,
you could find another one. And he used a Pro
Bowl MVP wide receiver, so that was much tougher than
any girlfriend that broke up with me. Yeah, that bounced
back pretty quickly with the girls in my day. All right,
(27:13):
let's bring on my buddy, John Middlecoff, former NFL scout,
knows his ship. That's why I bring him on. So
I was told this weekend, and it is shocking I
have said this. We got five quarterbacks that are going
in the first round. My prediction is the two that
will be successful Trevor Lawrence and whoever the Niners take. Yeah,
(27:36):
I've been told, and I was a denier they're taking
Mac Jones and it wouldn't be who I would take.
But I do think he will be somewhat successful because
it's a perfect situation. Now do I think you know
the other guys could be more successful. Well, but we'll
never know, right. It's like you don't know the president
(27:58):
you don't elect. You don't know how it would have been, right,
better or worse, the girl you don't date. Whatever. Yeah,
you have no clue, right, Right, So I do think
mac Jones because it's perfect, we'll have some success. I don't.
I don't see super Bowl success. But you're in the
Bay Area. A sour side trust now says it is
an eighty twenty mac Jones lead. Well, I just want
(28:21):
to start with this. He is known as the guy
with the highest floor of that group of Trey Lance,
of Justin Fields and mac Jones. There's no such thing
as a high floor for a quarterback prospect unless you're
like Andrew Luck maybe Trevor Lawrence. Right, the bus potential
on quarterbacks is really high because most of them, it
typically is intangible. Right, it's his work, ethic, his ability
(28:43):
to process, his its ability to handle the pressure, the
pressure that comes at being drafted number three. And then
on top of that, if you don't have great physical tools,
with Mac by far has the least physical the best
you know, if you just rank the physical skill set
of the top five guys, he's the bottom. I don't
think it's really close. I actually think Colin they're gonna
take Trey Lance. I talked to an NFL exec this
(29:05):
week who thought, when you watch Trey Lance and things
he does well throw on the move, physically, what Kyle's
talked about our big high end athletes, if you had
your choice, He went on record a couple weeks ago
when they made the trade and said, if you could choose,
which we kind of can now, you ideally always take
the bigger, faster, stronger guy. And if you look at
the guys on Kyle's teams even historically that they've had
(29:26):
success with Julio Jones, Trent Williams, who the Shanahan's draft
and then he brought back. Trent Williams is six foot six,
three hundred thirty pounds, runs like a running back, took
a year off, came back, made a Pro Bowl like
those are Kyle Shanahan is known for this. Kirk Kirk
Cousins was a fourth round pick. They just mortgage the
entire future pick twelve two other first rounders. That would
(29:47):
be like taking your entire life savings and then just
investing it into like a pretty safe etf right, Usually
when you take your entire life savings, you would take
a pretty big risk on something like It's to take
a pretty bold move if you're gonna take all the
money and make the move and let it instead of
just letting it sit there. Because I would say Mac
Jones every single year there are Mac Jones in the
(30:07):
second and third round, and if you've got Kyle Shanahan,
wouldn't you just use that value to do that? They
did try to do that three four years ago with CJ. Bethard,
a plug in play pro style quarterback from Iowa high
floor Colin. He was terrible. So to me, the more
I've talked just two different people in the league, if
you read what Kyle is actually and listen to what
(30:28):
Kyle's actually said, now that doesn't mean anything. At this
time of year, people lie to me. Trey Lance, high
character guy represented by Tom Condon, who represents the Mannings,
the Breezes, the Staffords, all the high level guys. Is
only twenty years old. Who is just this raw product?
Do you have a lot to work with if you
are going to keep Jimmy, which again they might be lying,
(30:49):
But if they truly take them at their word, they
would keep him. Wouldn't Trey Lance be the guy that
you kind of work with, Keep behind Jimmy for a year,
see how it goes. He's only started a year. You
don't know how he's gonna look. Because if you take
mac Jones, if they do that, which I definitely think
as a possibility, I think he has to start. You
can't take the highest four guy and then have him
sit for a year. What the hell are we doing right?
(31:11):
That guy would have to play immediately. If you take
mac Jones, if you take Trey Lance, you can justify
it to people. I think if you take mac Jones,
for everything Kyle has built around here and he has
a lot of equity. People think very very highly of him,
even though when you look, he's only had one successful season.
But if you watch him every week and last year
they won six games, he was fantastic. He was excellent.
(31:34):
Given how many injuries they had, how Jimmy disappeared for
all these games, I think he would lose a lot
of that at the moment he took mac Jones. Now, ultimately,
on draft night, nothing doesn't mean anything. You win games,
no one will care, but I think people would question.
I think it would be one of the most arrogant
picks in the history of the league. At The Volume Sports,
(31:55):
you can find us on Twitter or Instagram. Please rate, review, subscribe.
Love doing this, We're just starting. Check us out The
(32:21):
Volume
The volume. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the
Colin Coward Podcast. This week, some strong interviews. Steve Smith
Senior with his take on Julian Edelman's Hall of Fame
(00:21):
resume and as brutally on his take on how he
approaches relationships in the NFL. Drew Rosenhouse not only unbelievable stories,
but tells us how the college football landscape is about
to change in a big way. Finally, John Middlecoff full
of info, weighs in on the niners questionable plans to
draft Mac Jones. All right, I'm gonna bring on Steve
(00:44):
Smith Senior, fifteen years, five Pro Bowls. We'll talk to
some football. His appreciation for Julian Edelman interesting cat. Steve
Smith joins us, Listen, when I think of you, I
think you're a Hall of Famer, and what I think
about you and appreciate as you're tough and so. And
I made an argument for Edelman this week, and I said, listen, man,
there's gotta be more than one way to the Hall
(01:06):
of Fame. I said, Jason Garrett has a higher winning
percentence to Jimmy Johnson. Who's the better coach? And I said,
Sandy Kofax only had three great years, but he was
the best pitcher in the history of the game for
three years. Marionno Rivera only has eighty two wins, But
the Yankees don't get a World Series with Joe Torry
(01:28):
if he doesn't pitch the last outs. And so I
look at Edelman and I say, Okay, his numbers don't
stack like Calvin Johnson. But when you played for the Patriot, Steve,
there are no junkyards because with seven minutes to go,
you lead and you're asked a block. You know, the
Atlanta receivers trail shit, it's done. But junkyards the last
(01:50):
seven minutes to nine, ten to twelve games a year.
So Edelman's toughness and ability to be great in big
games means a ton to me. I think, give you similarly,
you were better in big games. You were a physical presence.
You would block. That's my argument for Edelman. You know
there's guys in this league they are gonna make the
(02:11):
Hall of Fame, and you and I know they They
didn't like to block. They disappeared in big spots. You know,
they used to say that about basketball players. Some basketball
players hide from the ball with about three minutes left.
Lebron doesn't kobe that, but God that guys hide from
the ball. Now, Now, Edelman's numbers are not yours, They're
not great, But how do you look at Edelman as
(02:32):
a guy that played in this league at a high level,
as a Pro Bowl or five times? You know, it's
it's funny you say it is because you know when
I when they asked me, or when guys like you
asked me, I am caught in the middle, which is
very rare for me. Usually I'm either over here over there.
(02:54):
I'm very I'm really in the middle, and I'm calling
the middle. Is because one spat the heck out of Edelman.
I love his game. I love what he does. He
goes in there. He's a technician. You know he has
benefited from where he played. But here's the problem. He
(03:18):
wasn't given that position. He earned it by working his
way through. He mastered his craft. He used to be
a quarterback. Not everybody can go from quarterback to wide receiver.
Now everybody can go from wide receiver to corner. Right
now everybody can play corner and be a successful wide receiver.
So with all that understanding his body of work, what
(03:41):
I really like about Edelman, which a lot of times
people don't want to really talk about, which is, you know,
we talk about some of these players in the league,
we talk about what they did in the playoffs, but
then they say, well, a guy didn't do that much
in the season. I agree, But then we talk about
(04:03):
guys who have had a fantastic regular season and unfortunately,
not to their fault or their detchman, they never got
an opportunity to playing the playoffs. But then what about
the guys who have played in the playoffs and didn't
show up right? And so when I look at Edelman,
I just look at him from what I know and
(04:25):
what I respect of wide receivers, and I respect them all. Now,
I don't agree all of them are great. I don't
believe all of them are Hall of famers. I don't
believe some of the whoevers are the top echelon that
are on the laundry list of greats. I'm not gonna
say that this guy is better than that guy. But
(04:46):
there are some guys where I'm like, okay, right, because
I am supposed to respect my elders, and I shall
respect my elders. But then I also look at Alman,
I go. I love his numbers, and I love what
he did when it count them most. What you do
in a regular season just builds you up to when
you hit the playoffs and you in a groove. Edelman
(05:07):
was always that guy you can count them. You know
Carolina really well? Some days I do. I actually think
Darnald fits Matt ruland Brady Robbie Anderson. They want to
be more of a big play offense, throw it down
the field. Teddy's not a big arm guy. Sam's bigger, stronger,
more athletic. He's more of a risk taker. I think
(05:29):
it works to what level I don't know, but I
would argue I think Carolina's offensive talent outside of left
tackle it's pretty good. I think Dj Moore is a
pretty good player. So I mean you, I'm sure you
watched Carolina last year. Can they be viable? Can Darnald
fit quickly? Will will? It's at a system you can
(05:49):
learn quickly with Matt ruland Brady Well. What I love
about why I think it's a good fit is because,
let's be honest, people are like, man, I don't I
don't see it. I don't understand why you bring in
Sam Donald. That's stupid. The problem is is it fair
(06:10):
to evaluate a quarterback that's on the team, that's on
the team who is trying to get themselves together. The
young man has been under duress from day one. It's
not It's not fair to him, right. You know, quarterbacks
are one of these things. Quarterbacks when they when winning,
(06:30):
quarterbacks get all the glory and when losing to a
certain extent, you know, sometimes they want to place blame.
But but my blame is not the players. It's Look
how good Robbie Anderson has looked here in Carolina versus
what he looked like with the Jets. Look at I
(06:53):
want to see what Sam Donald can do when he
has time and not under dressed. We have never seen
a quarterback performed well under pressure under durest. Probably one
of the best young talents we got out here, and
we just saw him play in the Super Bowl where
he did not accumulate four hundred and ninety seven yards.
(07:13):
That's how many yards he ran around for his life
into super patrol Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes in losing, so
he did not accumulate four hundred ninety seven yards rushing.
Now that's how many yards. He ran around for his life, right,
and that says something. So if Patrick Mahomes is not
(07:35):
effective under Durest, why isn't it Sam Donald? Is he
gonna be effective under Durest? How are you gonna say, said,
go five step dropping three steps into your five step drop.
You're getting supplex and this is not wwe SmackDown you.
You've actually been really honest about ship. When you played you,
(07:58):
you said you struggled sometime with depression. Yeah, most guys
don't want to Most guys don't want to talk about that,
and so you had some personal battles. Um, and I
don't know if it's a it's a family history. I've
had people in my family that have struggled with that.
You would think you're great, good looking guy, smart, successful, Yeah,
(08:19):
you now that you're working out and looking a little fitter,
you can tell a handsomeness of me. I like. But
it's it's interesting because I wouldn't think. I mean, you
were always a guy that was just resilient, tough, making
catches pro bowls. When did you honestly Steve, was there
a moment for you, an epiphany when you're like, I
need to see a therapist. There's something something I can't.
(08:41):
I can't I can't get my arms around by myself. Well,
what happened was back in two thousand and three, I
was already I had already had a sports psychologist, a
guy who was working with golf players. And so I
had a sports psychologist that I was working with. So
um visilation was always there. UM daily goals, monthly goals,
(09:05):
short term, long term, had all that stuff already mapped
out and and and went through that, had a whole routine.
UM look at looking at my film as data with
no emotions. Right, I had all that stuff and I
and it was built in me. But I struggled because
I was so geared towards data P and L profit
(09:30):
or loss was I created enough passive income for my
family by playing, so when I can when I'm done playing,
I can sit back and enjoy life. Right, So my
mind was always gone. I was either always on or
always off right and so and and just having that pressure. Right,
and so for me, what happened is I I didn't
(09:52):
know and didn't realize the pressure I was putting on myself.
It was causing me to not really enjoy the journey
because of my the way I was raised and what
I went through and what I experienced, right, and it's
something I just connected the dots with is by the
age of eighteen, I felt pretty insignificant. It was in me.
(10:20):
I felt already insignificant. So for me, playing ball was
me playing ball. I always wanted to play ball, but
outside of playing ball, I was always trying to figure
things out. Things didn't always equal up or make sense. So,
you know, I struggled with that. And then you add
(10:42):
not addressing it. You're playing ball, keep suppressing it, keep
suppressing it. And I just struggled with it. And so
when I started doing counseling just not for when I
stopped doing counseling on in sports and I just started
doing counseling on figuring things out. I started going back Chris,
and I was going, oh, because I was always uptight, right,
(11:06):
And you know, I remember when I tore my achilles
in Baltimore, you know, and I'm and I'm on you know,
the medication from from from from the surgery. Man, I remember,
and I and I remember, and I was like and
I woke up like in the middle of the night,
and I remember saying, man, if I would have just
(11:26):
caught these passes. And you know when you have after surgery,
you're always kind of that medicine does some stuff to you, right,
And I remember I was able to recite when I
woke up middle nine. I was able to recite every
ball that I dropped. And if I didn't drop that ball,
I wouldn't be playing right now. I would not be
(11:51):
playing right now. That means I would not have torn
my achilles, because I would have had those thousand receptions
you were just eating yourself up in the hospital room.
And if I would have got those styles of receptions,
I would have quit playing last year the year before.
(12:13):
And so then I wouldn't you know, you see what
I'm saying. And so I just went down the rabbit hole,
and the medication I was on it had me just
like I was like, I mean, if this is if
this is the memories, and I was just like I was.
I was in it. I mean waved out. I got
a dog. But and you ever seen a dog digging
(12:36):
in the dirt, That's where I was. I was digging
through the dirt and the mess, and I was getting
filthy inside my head, inside my heart of where I
was and I was just like, man, this this ain't good.
And so that's why when I stepped away. I stepped
away really my sixteenth year. I was like, man, I
didn't want to go play for another team. I didn't
(12:57):
want to keep, you know, being away this year. I'm
in Baltimore for three years and I go played two
years somewhere else and play maybe another year. And I
was like, man, decide what you're gonna do. And so
that's that's one of the reasons why. And that's and
that's what I was able to figure out. And so
it was like, you know, did I want to play, Yeah,
(13:18):
but wanting to play and understanding I needed to stop
playing that was more important. Yeah, do you miss it?
Miss what? Just do you miss the camaraderie the dudes?
You know? Not really, because here's the thing. I made
myself unapproachable to where I had this guard up where
(13:42):
I didn't want friends because I didn't I was here
to do one thing, just play ball. I wouldn't here
to be if I wasn't here to be her friend.
Because when I turned it on on the light switch
and I played ball and go against defenders, I don't
give a fuck about your family. I don't care how
your wife as kids are doing. I'm here to kick
your ass bottom. Yeah, and so having that, you know,
(14:07):
And then when I got to Baltimore, I realized, man,
just slow down a little bit. And so that's where
it wasn't. Baltimore was such a significantly better place. I
was in a better mind frame, justin for set. Great guy,
Anthony Levine, great guy, Thomas Davis, great guy, um Mike Tolber,
great guy. I mean, so many great, fantastic players that
(14:31):
I played with, but they didn't really I didn't appreciate
or make them feel appreciate it because I was just
so focused on kicking ass and taking names that I
was tough to be around. But I was okay being
alone because alone fed into the anger of playing ball
the way I played. You know those hot takes you
(14:54):
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See FanDuel dot com for terms in conditions. His name
(16:04):
is Drew Rosenhouse. I would classify him as a super agent,
the founder of Rosenhouse Sports Representation more than thirty years
is a sports agent and he still looks good. Yeah.
In nineteen eighty nine, at the age of twenty two
years old, and I'll be honest, I was a little
bit of a cynic, good looking guy slick Miami, but
(16:25):
I kept talking to people and they're like, no, Drew's great.
Remember I had a conversation with Rich McKay one time.
He's like, he gets right to it. There's no bullshit.
Drew and I our conversations or eight to ten minutes.
I wish there were ten Drew rosenhouses. I am no
longer a cynic but a fan, and he's joining us now.
It is funny though, when you first came out, I
(16:46):
was like, boy, this guy, he's fast talking. Did you sense, Drew,
you were so different than the classic older model that
you a lot of people. You got some blowback? Did
you sense it? Oh? Yeah, you know. I intentionally try
to be different Colin. It was a very competitive business.
(17:08):
When I broke in in nineteen eighty eight, I was
twenty two years old. I was a second year law
student from Duke University School of Law, and it was
it was an established industry. It wasn't as balanced as
it is today. It was really dominated by a handful
of agents at that time, and I figured for me
to make an aim for myself, I had to be different.
(17:32):
In those days. I was certainly brash. I did use
the media to my advantage and it did make quite
a few enemies in the aging business. At one time
I was on the cover of Sports Illustrated known as
the most heeda man in pro football. But listen, that
was good for business and quite frankly, just being in
(17:57):
the eye of the media early on, established MEWS a
known commodity, and being based here in South Florida, I
was able to really capitalize on all the terrific players
down here. Who was the first established agent that wasn't
an enemy that put his arm around you, that actually
reached out? And I probably took a while, but was
(18:18):
there one or two guys that reached out in the
first There were not a one that there still aren't any.
Just the guys who worked with me, my brother, Jason,
Robert Bailey, Ryan Math are the only agents that I
consider to be friends. This is such a hyper competitive business,
(18:39):
Colin that I probably have had a client leave all
the top agents to come to me, and I'd probably
have had a client that's left me to sign with
another of the top agents. It's just it's a war
zone out there. The recruiting is very cut throat, and
there really isn't much margin for friendship among your competitors.
(19:03):
It's really unique because there's no second place, there's nothing
for runner up. I mean, you know, you could beat
out one hundred agents and finished number two to get
a player, and that means absolutely fuckers. I mean, you know,
zero nothing. And I can tell you as a result
of that, it's a highly competitive business and you're out
(19:26):
to beat beat the competitive agents and you really don't
have time. It's not beneficial to be friendly with the
guys that you're competing with. Give me, give me an
incident since nineteen eighty nine in the draft, were your
phone rings right right before a pick? Has that ever happened? Oh? Yeah,
(19:47):
I mean with Willis mcgahey. He was a young man
who blew his knee out in the college national championship game,
the Fiesta Ball, against Ohio State, and he was on
the draft H and Colin. Quite quite frankly, there wasn't
a lot of calls for Willis in the early to
(20:09):
mid portion of the first round, and ESPN kept flashing him.
So I decided the next time they flashed him on TV,
instead of him sitting there looking board waiting for the
phone to ring, I would call him. So it looked
like he was on the phone with team. So I
called from my cell phone. I called Willis. We're talking
to each other. Willis is on the phone. All of
(20:30):
a sudden, my call waiting goes through and it's it's
the Buffalo Bills. And at that time, the Bills were
curious who Willis was talking to, and I wouldn't tell
them who he was talking to. I just said, you know,
use your imagination, and and they assumed it was another team,
(20:50):
and they decided that if he was on the phone
with another club, there was a good chance he was
going to be picked. And not long after I spoke
to them, they drafted Willis. So, believe it or not,
I think that it's something to do with them taking him.
You want to create the impression at all times that
your clients about to get selected. This is about to
(21:11):
blow up, though. We're about to go into a whole
new world in college football with agents and marketing people.
And it's called nil name, image, and likeness. In the
state of Florida, on July first, Florida passed the law
that college athletes can begin to enter into endorsement agreements
(21:34):
and have marketing deals based on their name, image and likeness.
So college players are gonna be able to make money.
They're going to be able to do deals with marketing agents.
Agents like myself. We're going to be able to go
out and pture marketing deals for players. So this has
been passed in Florida. The NCAA hasn't ruled on this
(21:56):
yet or they don't have a formal ruling, but it's
coming and it's coming soon, and it's going to change
the whole dynamics of college football because it's inevitable that
college players are going to be able to make money
and deal with agents and have endorsement deals. So get
ready college football and amateurism is going to become professional football. Well,
(22:20):
conservative governors tend to be more pro business. So Florida
to Santas, he's going to pass this, puppy California, Gavin Newsom,
you know, California just frankly, you know, as an attorney,
has more regulations all through our government. So we know
Florida is going to open it up. Where's Texas at,
where's California at on that stuff? Really, Florida and New
(22:42):
Mexico are the only states to my knowledge that have
formally passed the law, but there are quite a few
other states that I've heard that are on the verge
of doing the same. And I'm following this very closely
because when it is permissible, we're going to be, you know,
getting after. We're going to recruit all of the top
(23:03):
college players with marketing deals, and this is going to
be the way of the future. Every top college player
is going to be inundated, inundated with marketing opportunities from
agents like myself, and so colleges and universities are going
to have to deal with that. And you know, college
(23:24):
football is going to be very different moving forward, and
the colleges are going to have to embrace the NIL
because they're gonna need to use it in recruiting. If
a program has alumni that can bring endorsement deals to players,
they're gonna get a lot more deals than for players.
(23:46):
And say a program that doesn't have a relationship with
alumni that have endorsement deals, it's really going to take off. Yeah,
I was gonna say, if I'm Stanford and I know
that's not a football powerhouse, but hell, half their graduates
work at Apple and Google and you tap, I mean, seriously,
I think about that, and I think Apple has a
lot of pack twelve graduates inside their company, and I
(24:09):
would if I was Apple, I'd think, yeah, just go
go take care of Stanford players. I mean, would there
be anything outlawing that. Nope, not that I'm aware of.
And I mean, you look at the University of Central Florida.
You know what's on the back of the players jerseys. Now,
it's not their names, it's their Twitter handle. It's their
Twitter name. And that's brilliant because that is the world
(24:33):
that we are about to enter. Get ready for college
football and their players to make money in. You know,
the top guys are going to make hundreds of thousands
of dollars in the best players are going to start
to really rack up the money in. Hey. I've been
an agent for thirty three years and I've said from
day one, college players should absolutely be able to make
(24:55):
money on endorsements, and that time has finally arrived and
it's going to be a isial in a matter of months.
Anybody ever break your heart, Just break your heart. You
lost a client? Oh yeah, many times I mentioned Michael Irvin.
Michael Irvin was the guy that helped me get started
this business, and I was his agent early in his career.
(25:19):
I was a very young agent and I was in
my early twenties and he was with the Dallas Cowboys
and he became a Pro Bowl player and he decided
to let his young agent go to hire a veteran
agent that was prominent in Dallas who could get him
a lot more contracts. And that was devastating for me.
(25:41):
I couldn't figure that out because you know, I've always
been about you know, your clients are your friends. There's
that bond, like Jerry McGuire, and it was business for Michael,
and that broke my heart. But I grew up quite
a bit and realized that this is a business as well.
But that was a tough one. Yeah, God, and you
were what twenty five, twenty six, yeah, exactly, very young
(26:05):
in my career, never lost the client before that. I
didn't think it was possible that that was a shot
right to the groin. But you know, Michael Irvin was
always a great advocate for mine even after that, and
we've maintained a great relationship to this day and I'll
always be grateful for him. But Michael, if you're listening,
(26:29):
you broke my heart, buddy. What's tougher a girl breaking
up with your Michael Irvin. Well, that's a good one.
I would have to say Michael Irving because you know,
for me, I was a bachelor for a long time
growing up in Miami. I didn't get married till my
(26:50):
mid forties, didn't have children until five years ago. So
I was a little bit of a playboy at the
University of Miami. So for girl broke up with me,
you could find another one. And he used a Pro
Bowl MVP wide receiver, so that was much tougher than
any girlfriend that broke up with me. Yeah, that bounced
back pretty quickly with the girls in my day. All right,
(27:13):
let's bring on my buddy, John Middlecoff, former NFL scout,
knows his ship. That's why I bring him on. So
I was told this weekend, and it is shocking I
have said this. We got five quarterbacks that are going
in the first round. My prediction is the two that
will be successful Trevor Lawrence and whoever the Niners take. Yeah,
(27:36):
I've been told, and I was a denier they're taking
Mac Jones and it wouldn't be who I would take.
But I do think he will be somewhat successful because
it's a perfect situation. Now do I think you know
the other guys could be more successful. Well, but we'll
never know, right. It's like you don't know the president
(27:58):
you don't elect. You don't know how it would have been, right,
better or worse, the girl you don't date. Whatever. Yeah,
you have no clue, right, Right, So I do think
mac Jones because it's perfect, we'll have some success. I don't.
I don't see super Bowl success. But you're in the
Bay Area. A sour side trust now says it is
an eighty twenty mac Jones lead. Well, I just want
(28:21):
to start with this. He is known as the guy
with the highest floor of that group of Trey Lance,
of Justin Fields and mac Jones. There's no such thing
as a high floor for a quarterback prospect unless you're
like Andrew Luck maybe Trevor Lawrence. Right, the bus potential
on quarterbacks is really high because most of them, it
typically is intangible. Right, it's his work, ethic, his ability
(28:43):
to process, his its ability to handle the pressure, the
pressure that comes at being drafted number three. And then
on top of that, if you don't have great physical tools,
with Mac by far has the least physical the best
you know, if you just rank the physical skill set
of the top five guys, he's the bottom. I don't
think it's really close. I actually think Colin they're gonna
take Trey Lance. I talked to an NFL exec this
(29:05):
week who thought, when you watch Trey Lance and things
he does well throw on the move, physically, what Kyle's
talked about our big high end athletes, if you had
your choice, He went on record a couple weeks ago
when they made the trade and said, if you could choose,
which we kind of can now, you ideally always take
the bigger, faster, stronger guy. And if you look at
the guys on Kyle's teams even historically that they've had
(29:26):
success with Julio Jones, Trent Williams, who the Shanahan's draft
and then he brought back. Trent Williams is six foot six,
three hundred thirty pounds, runs like a running back, took
a year off, came back, made a Pro Bowl like
those are Kyle Shanahan is known for this. Kirk Kirk
Cousins was a fourth round pick. They just mortgage the
entire future pick twelve two other first rounders. That would
(29:47):
be like taking your entire life savings and then just
investing it into like a pretty safe etf right, Usually
when you take your entire life savings, you would take
a pretty big risk on something like It's to take
a pretty bold move if you're gonna take all the
money and make the move and let it instead of
just letting it sit there. Because I would say Mac
Jones every single year there are Mac Jones in the
(30:07):
second and third round, and if you've got Kyle Shanahan,
wouldn't you just use that value to do that? They
did try to do that three four years ago with CJ. Bethard,
a plug in play pro style quarterback from Iowa high
floor Colin. He was terrible. So to me, the more
I've talked just two different people in the league, if
you read what Kyle is actually and listen to what
(30:28):
Kyle's actually said, now that doesn't mean anything. At this
time of year, people lie to me. Trey Lance, high
character guy represented by Tom Condon, who represents the Mannings,
the Breezes, the Staffords, all the high level guys. Is
only twenty years old. Who is just this raw product?
Do you have a lot to work with if you
are going to keep Jimmy, which again they might be lying,
(30:49):
But if they truly take them at their word, they
would keep him. Wouldn't Trey Lance be the guy that
you kind of work with, Keep behind Jimmy for a year,
see how it goes. He's only started a year. You
don't know how he's gonna look. Because if you take
mac Jones, if they do that, which I definitely think
as a possibility, I think he has to start. You
can't take the highest four guy and then have him
sit for a year. What the hell are we doing right?
(31:11):
That guy would have to play immediately. If you take
mac Jones, if you take Trey Lance, you can justify
it to people. I think if you take mac Jones,
for everything Kyle has built around here and he has
a lot of equity. People think very very highly of him,
even though when you look, he's only had one successful season.
But if you watch him every week and last year
they won six games, he was fantastic. He was excellent.
(31:34):
Given how many injuries they had, how Jimmy disappeared for
all these games, I think he would lose a lot
of that at the moment he took mac Jones. Now, ultimately,
on draft night, nothing doesn't mean anything. You win games,
no one will care, but I think people would question.
I think it would be one of the most arrogant
picks in the history of the league. At The Volume Sports,
(31:55):
you can find us on Twitter or Instagram. Please rate, review, subscribe.
Love doing this, We're just starting. Check us out The
(32:21):
Volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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