May 7, 2021 • 55 mins
On this episode of The Colin Cowherd Podcast, Colin starts off by answering insightful questions from himself in Fake Questions, Real Answers (1:00). his guest is UCLA Head Football Coach Chip Kelly, who shares his thoughts on the rabid fans in Philly (10:00), the polar opposite atmosphere at UCLA (12:00), if he deserves credit for the evolution of the NFL offensive game (13:00), why Nick Saban initially pushed back so hard on up tempo offense (16:00), why Saban's ability to continually replace high level assistants is so impressive (20:00), if he considered taking the Florida job (23:00), how he's embraced the transfer portal (24:00), if it's harder to project players to college or the NFL (27:00), why the West Coast isn't producing o-lineman like the Southeast (30:00), and the best player he's ever coached (37:00).
Also, Action Network Chief Content Officer Chad Millman stops by to discuss the recent sale of Action Network and how it's (massively) helped his bottom line (40:00), how the Packers should handle potentially shopping Aaron Rodgers (48:00), and if the Draft significantly impacted any NFL season win total futures (50:00), and how a Rodgers trade would impact Packers futures.
Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by
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Duel more ways to win. Hi, everybody, and welcome to
(00:31):
the Friday Morning Podcast. First of all, Chip Kelly is
going to talk NFL Eagles, his Oregon days. How close
did he come to take in the Florida job. He's
Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, We're talking everything with him than
Chad Milman. Really excited. One of the smartest guys I've
ever met in football. Chip Kelly joins us today. But
(00:52):
as always, it's Friday, It's time for fake questions and
real answers. Here we go, Dear Colin. Was there a
time when stats were more important than titles? When did
that change? And who changed it? Well? I think titles
owas mattered, but I think Michael Jordan really pierced through
(01:18):
sports like nobody ever had. He was not only the
best player, he was the most glamorous. He was the coolest,
He was the best looking, He was the best dressed.
And so Bill Russell won almost twice as many titles,
but he wasn't as dynamic offensively or as cool. Jerry
West was called mister clutch. He went one for eight
(01:41):
in the finals, and then Jordan came around. I mean,
think about that. With Jerry West one for eight, he's
mister clutch. It's not just that Michael was the best
basketball player in the world. It was the way he
did it. He had the first big shoe campaign. It
created sort of this force field around him. He failed
(02:03):
at baseball, he got a divorce, there was gambling, he
was awful with the Wizards. It didn't matter. You couldn't
pierce it. And so I think once Michael Jordan now
is so popular. He was the most popular NBA player
according to polls twenty years after he retired. Is that
we just look at it differently now? Is that Michael
(02:24):
is so popular that we judge everything on perfection in basketball,
by the way we don't in football. Joe Montana's four
for four, Tom Brady's got three Super Bowl losses. We
don't care. The minute he had five Super Bowls, he's better.
It wouldn't matter if Lebron James won seven titles. He's
not as cool, His game doesn't have the offensive appeal.
(02:45):
Jordan changed all the rules for basketball and perhaps sports.
There's never been an athlete who was the best, the coolest,
the best looking, the best dress, the most glamorous, and
the most popular. And don't kid yourself, Lebron will never
be as popular as Michael Jordan. Dear Colin, you can
be very critical of players. What happens when you meet
somebody you criticize face to face? Is it civil or
(03:09):
do you throw down? Well, it's happened a few times.
Most athletes are pretty passive when you meet him because
they know you go on the air the next day.
So why tick me off? Why be confrontational? But the
truth is I'm not that critical. Yeah, I've been rough
on Baker Mayfield, but if you took everything I ever said,
it's probably a fifty fifty split. I got the Browns
(03:31):
winning the division this year and getting to the AFC Championship.
I've been tough on Russell Westbrook, I've been tough on
Aaron Rodgers. I'm just tougher than the local media. But
the truth is, if you took everything I've ever said
about Westbrook, Aaron and Mayfield, it's fifty fifty. It's just
ninety ten in their favor from local media. So I
(03:53):
don't see myself is unruly and unwieldy in terms of criticism.
I think I'm fair, by the way. Ten years before
anybody else talked about it, we said there were questions
about Aaron Rodgers body language, his eye rolling, and his leadership.
It's now that everybody else talks about it. I'd rather
(04:14):
be first when it comes to those judgments, because I
watched the games, I watch body language. I just don't
think I'm that unfair. Dear Colin, do you see impressions
that people do of you, and what do you think
they get right or wrong? I don't see a lot
of them. There's a kid at barstool, Joey something that
I think's funny. It's the first one I ever saw
and I laughed at. I think he's got down kind
(04:37):
of my style, or I often repeat stuff to accentuate points.
I think he's very good, actually and very funny. I
always as a kid I did impressions growing up. I
did Howard Cosell, I did Keith Jackson, I did Marv Albert,
I did Vince Scully, and they were all the broadcasters
I liked, so I take that stuff as a compliment.
(04:57):
If somebody's impersonating you have a style, I'm good with that. Colin,
you're a coastal liberal. So you can't see that the
media is liberal. Open your eyes. No, I have largely
acknowledged the media is liberal in fact on social issues.
(05:18):
Eileen left on virtually everything. The difference is unlike the
rest of the media. I admit it socially on left. Fiscally,
I'm moderate, sometimes right, but mostly right in the middle.
I view myself as an independent. Where the media gets
in trouble is when they don't realize they're a business
and they're not authentic with their audience. Listen, the NBA
(05:39):
ratings have gone down thirty five percent in two years.
The basketball didn't get worse, The players didn't get worse.
What happened they went all in on politics. The Oscar
ratings the last two years have tanked. They've lost forty
five to fifty percent of their audience. The movies didn't
necessarily get worse. The actors weren't more pompous or self absorbed.
(06:03):
They went all in on politics. Just admitute. There's a
big chunk of people who don't want politics with their movies,
their award ceremonies, or their sports. I occasionally talked Trump,
mostly tweaked him because I think he's bizarre and a
fire hose of narcissism. He's gone now. I'm really honest
about my politics and about the media. They lean left.
(06:29):
What worries me is how few do they don't. Seventy
percent of newspaper people in studies done for years are Democrats.
Of course it sometimes shades their views. Just be upfront
about it. Colin. A lot of people are selling their companies.
(06:50):
I just read a story where the Athletic is trying
to be sold. What is your take? My take is
I didn't build the volume to be sold. I've built
it to work at it forever. If somebody wants to
spend a lot of money and buy it, I'll consider it.
But I'm not retiring. In terms of the Athletic, I
thought they made one big mistake when they started. Anytime
(07:12):
you have a business that is behind a paywall, it's
a subscription service. It is really hard to drive people
through that wall. Instead of hiring media critics and hockey writers,
I would have gone out and found the ten best
podcasters I could and the ten best Columness I could
to drive people through a paywall. They did the opposite.
(07:35):
They got beat reporters. They were slow on podcasts. They
tried to make it a volume play with journalism. There's
simply too much on the market right now, free blogs,
the Internet you don't have to pay for to get.
Too much of their information is already duplicated in non
paywall businesses. So I think it's destined to never sell
(07:59):
for the amount the Athletic wants it to. The minute
you go paywall, Howard Stern was the first to break
through it. Sirius. XM exists because of Howard and the NFL.
People are willing to pay a monthly fee for both.
Ninety percent of serious XM channels have virtually no audience.
(08:20):
Years ago, I read a study or a report that
ninety percent of albums, ninety percent of all albums had
fewer than ten copies sold. Ten percent of all albums
make all the business. So good luck to the Athletic.
(08:41):
But from day one I didn't buy into their business plan,
even though I rooted for him. All right, let's bring
on Chip Kelly, UCLA head coach. Big year for him,
big year for him. He's got to win now. At
the end of last year, they were a much better team,
and we'll get into the transfer portal. They have used
that very smartly this offseason. They got four, maybe five
(09:04):
starters out of the transfer portal. We're gonna talk Eagles,
We're gonna talk UCLA sec Nick Saban, Pete Carroll. Let's
bring on Chip Kelly. So it's funny, Chip. When I
think of you, I do think certain coaches fit certain areas.
New Hampshire fits for you, Eugene fits for you. La
(09:29):
Manhattan Beach fits for you. And then I think Philadelphia.
Oh no, I mean you won. What's funny. I looked
it up today. You won. Buddy Ryan won fifty five
percent of his games, Andy Reid fifty eight. You won
fifty five. So did Peterson. Y'all got whacked. That's Philadelphia.
It's angry. And I think of Philadelphia and I think
(09:53):
was there ever a moment, maybe before you took the
job or during it, you thought, Ah, these people they're
angry a lot. Now, honestly, I loved it and I
love the fans. I think anywhere where you can be
somewhere where your fans are passionate. Um, I'll take that
one hundred percent of time over someone that isn't passionate.
(10:15):
And it's they live and breathe it, they love, they
love sports, and it's um of the Mike Schmidt quote
you have to understand is uh, it's the only place
where you can enjoy victory on UM Sunday and then
be depressed reading about it on Monday. You know, something
to that effect, where it's it's never good enough. But
(10:38):
I think as coaches, it's never good enough for us either.
All all my mind goes to is what's our next game?
Who we play next? You know we're done, Like, let's
I'm out into the celebration and let's go crazy. I
think that town um thinks the same way. You know
when it's I enjoyed it. I really did. And I
know some people, UM, you know from the outside, if
(10:58):
you're not inside it, I think you can kind of
ask you just like on the place does. But I
love the fans of Philadelphia. I thought they were awesome.
Now UCLA is different. It's historically a basketball school and
the football stadiums down the road from the campus. It's
Los Angeles, there's option the A bad day of weather
is sixty eight and partly cloudy. Does that frustrate you
(11:19):
or have you come to terms with that that it's
more casual? I think because you're always internally motivated, so
it's not It doesn't really to me. It doesn't matter
where I am, It matters who you get an opportunity
to be around. The unique thing for me about us
LA was the kids that chose to go to school
here are intrinsically motivated. They understand that it's going to
(11:39):
be challenging academically, and you want to be around kids
like that. You want to be at a place where
they want to be successful and everything that they do.
And talk to David Chalm about what his experience at
Stanford is like, and it's there are schools that are different,
the USLAS to Stanfords and Notre Dames in northwesterns. But
when you look at them, whether it's Mike Bray or
Pat Fitzgerald or David, is that you know you want
(12:03):
to be around guys that want to be challenged on
a lead basis. And if you look at some of
the classes that our players take, you understand that they
understand that challenge too, and if you almost have you
don't have to deal with some of the things that
other guys have to deal with. You know, you've got
kids that are you don't have to worry about kids
going to class because they chose her, because they want
to go to class, you know. So some of the
things that I think some college coaches are more worried about,
(12:25):
we don't have to worry about. So to me, it
was about the players, and there was about a school
that's committed to excellence. You know, they won one hundred
and eighteen final championships in various sports, but they have
the last one they won in football is in nineteen
fifty four. So I looked at it as a challenge,
you know, on a challenge that at this point in
time in my career I was excited to be a
part of. It's almost like you were before your time
(12:47):
in the NFL. Do you look at some of the
poll Nation kind of college football into the NFL now
and think, you know, maybe I was about eight years
ahead of it. You know, if and I've said this before,
but if you weren't in the room with Amos Alonzo
Stag and Newt Rock Me when they invented this game,
then you stole it from somebody else, you know. So
(13:09):
Dutch Myers, who was the head coach at TCU in
the fifties, was running empty no backs. You know, when
no one talks about it. You know, everybody talks about
when we got to Oregon and we're running up tempo
and know how to well. Sam Weish was doing that
in the NFL with the Cincinnati Angles, you know, and
and Marv Levy was doing it with the Buffalo Bills
and the key gun. You know. So it's it's cyclical.
(13:30):
I think it's just trying to figure out what applies
the game itself. I think that at the next level
has turned into more of a spread out game because
people have realized the athletes are so good, we better
get him in space. You know, the days of Buddy
Ryan was ahead of his game because he ran the
forty six defense. Everybody was in two back and you
(13:51):
couldn't run the ball, you know, when they had those
monsters up front, was singletary behind them, and they played
press man on your two receivers and you couldn't get off.
So how you combat those defenses that are all in
the box Because we've got to spread people out, and
that's where I think the college spread out game has
kind of moved to the professional level. And there are
some guys, you know, Andy Reid's a great example. You know,
(14:12):
you look what Sean Payton's doing with two quarterbacks and
you get a whole fame quarterback and Drew Brees and
he takes out of the game sometimes so Tasom Hill
can play. You know, it's I think everybody's still evolving
and that's the fun. But I think there's a lot
of similarities. It used to be really different where college
I think ten twelve years ago was one way. In
the NFL was different. But I really think there's a
lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of
(14:33):
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the tempo up collegiately. I remember Nick Saban one time
(15:37):
told me privately. He says, I don't I think I
can say it now. We were up in Bristol and
he said, you know my concern about this. He goes
the officials the game is so fast. He goes in
the Auburn game, and he didn't want to say this
because Auburn beat him. He goes, there were eleven miss
calls on both sides. He goes, the officials were just
not in place. He goes, at the athletes will figure
(15:59):
out out the speed, so will the coaches I'm not
sure fifty nine year old officials can when you were
speeding up the tempo, and there were guys like Saban
that said, I'm not sure football is meant to be
played this fast. Did you see that as just kind
of proprietary I'm protecting my program or were there concerns
out there that were legit? Now I think it was proprietary.
(16:23):
You know, the two biggest and there's two great coaches
at the time were Nick Saban and Brett Delamo. But
look at what they ran offensively, you know, and I
would in the same way, like, well, why can't we
play fast because I think you should play fast. Well,
we played fast as an equalizer, So how do we
tire out an see defensive alignment because we're not going
to be able to line up one on one and
knock him off the ball. So everybody comes with it
(16:46):
with a little bit jaded. And you've got to give
Nick credit. And that's why he may be the greatest
ever do this game, is he has evolved and now
he does it all. You know, the things he didn't
like he's doing. You know, he was a big guy,
didn't like RPOs. They may be the best in the
country at our pels, you know, and so when you
look at it, that's what makes him such a great
coach because he's constantly evolving. But I think a lot
(17:08):
of that when you're worried. You know, we all want
if you want to win an argument, how do I
get as much fodder on one side to the other.
You know, let's let's play to the referees. We can
get the referees on our side and they'll they'll make
the game. So now a little bit, but m Nick's
always looking for an advantage, and he's really done. You
look at what they've done and civil and where they are.
You know, you could argue that their wide receiver, you now,
which ten years ago you wouldn't have said that, But
(17:30):
now you look at the white outs that they've turned
out in the last couple of years and you're like,
holy smokes, but they're doing such a good job with it.
Because I think he's evolved with it. But yeah, I
can see him saying that because at that time, it
was a run the ball guy and let's play great defense.
Um now it's it's almost you've got to get a
stop or two in each half and then see if
(17:52):
if you can continue rolling on offense, you know, then
then you're good to go, you know, And that's really
what the game has turned into. The reason I think
Savings the best colledge coach I've ever seen is not
simply because of winning, but what hurt Mac Brown, Bobby Bowden,
Pete Carroll, and Urban in Florida. That it's transient at
(18:14):
the coaching level. That Meete kept losing coordinator after coordinator,
and I remember him telling me once in his office,
I'm recruiting coaches as as I'm recruiting defensive ends. Saban
has lost really high in assistance and just keeps reloading.
I find that it fascinating. I don't know, maybe he's
(18:37):
so connected. I mean, just take me to that. The
difficulty in losing coaches and having to find good ones
that are often better than the previous one. I mean,
that's I don't think he gets enough credit for, you know.
And I think he developed the analysts off the role,
off the field role that no one really had, and
then turned it into a real almost like a land spot.
(19:00):
You know, when you look at that, just who's been
an analyst at at Alabama, it's it's a who's who?
You know, it's it's Sark, it's Mike Locksley, it's Butch Jones,
it's Mike stoops At. The list goes on and on.
So he also has a bullpen of guys so that
when a guy leaves, he may have the guy already
(19:21):
on staff. So the transition for him is the offense
and defense and terminology doesn't change. He's not bringing in
a new guy that brings in his offense or his defense.
He's still running it the way he wants to run it. Um,
he did it with Kith Lane, started off as as
an analyst, and then he promoted Lane when he lost guys.
So he's got a unique system and I think that
that unlike anybody else. Um, you know, we only four
(19:43):
analysts and they're they're low paying jobs and they're all
real entry level jobs. You know, we don't have what
they have. But it's he set that up because I
think he was he was really conscious of that, is
that you're gonna lose coaches, So what do I do
to come back that? You know, he's he's got an
answer for everything that I think you can look at
and say, hey, this is what we The next big
hurdle is going to be larn how do I handle that?
And I think you hit it, hit it right on.
(20:05):
Is his ability to replace coaches has been been phenomenal,
you know, and almost like the next guy comes in
is better than the guy that left, and the guy
that left was really good. I remember when I really
thought you broke through a certain threshold when you caught
Pete Carroll flatfooted in Eugene, and that was a good
(20:27):
sc team and they did not have an answer, And
I always wanted to ask you they had. Really they
were literally dominating recruiting on the West Coast. If there
were twenty great players, they were getting fourteen to sixteen.
And the week before, the week before that game, you're
playing up tempo and Pete goes up there, and I
swear to god, there was a moment I thought he
(20:48):
was going to grab a white towel and just start
waiving it. Did you did you see the game before
it happened? Did you sense they just weren't ready for
the pace of play you and the Ducks delivered. I
don't know if they weren't ready, because I mean, he's
such a good coach, but I think it was. It's
one of those things you know, the unique thing of
(21:09):
college football that I think everybody truly and hopefully we
can get back to it is when you can get
it rolling at home and it's that atmosphere. You know, everybody,
it's such an am game at the college level that
when you can we hit a couple of plays early
and then all of a sudden it took off and
then the crowd was behind us. And it was Halloween night.
(21:29):
We were wearing black uniforms, and you know, the stars
were aligned. I don't know if it was much is
that we didn't we cutch them flat footed, but you know,
our players made plays that day and it was it
wasn't a we outschemed him or anything like that. Is
just our our players just kind of played. And I
think the unique thing, and I know you know about
it is playing up there in Eugene is a real
(21:51):
tough place to play, you know, and it's no matter
what it is. You know, you listen to the even
the basketball you go back to the UCLA days when
they used to go up there and playing the old
basketball arena, MacArthur Court, it was always a difficult atmosphere.
So it's always difficult to go play games and for
some reason. USC at the time of Pete, he had
gone up and lost to Oregon State the year before.
You know, they they struggled in the state of Oregon
(22:11):
on the road, and we kind of knew that and
we picked that up as much as we could with
our guys. So it was one of those days where
kind of you look back and say, hey, you know,
that was a pretty good night. It's interesting you've said
you love passion and you love the environment. Florida. Jeremy
Foley was very interested in you. Well, their passion is crazy.
In the SEC. That's the loudest stadium along with Otson
(22:33):
I've ever been in. It is Gainesville and Otson. How
strongly did you consider Florida and the SEC? I considered
Ball and it was Scott Strickland at the time, who
I think is one of the top athletic directors in
the country. You know, I had a couple opportunities and
I just felt that this at the was the right
time for myself and my wife when we decided where
(22:54):
we wanted to go, and a lot of again, I
think to me, that challenge, you know, is it quote
unquote a basketball school? All right, Well, then let's see
if we can change that and let's do it the
right way with really good kids. To me, it was
more of maybe this was more of a challenge, and
that's what really got my blood boiling. I've heard, you know,
(23:17):
I tell people this all the time on my staff.
I'll say, listen, man, challenges or opportunities. And the transfer
portal came out and I heard a lot of old coaches,
you know, bitching about it, and it was funny. I
called a couple of coaches and I said, isn't it
basically a better version of junior college? You already know
they can play at the D one level. It's never
(23:38):
really an academic issue. It's they miss home and they
didn't get a play at Ohio States. They want to
come back to UCLA. I look at the transfer portal.
I think, oh, Chip Kelly's got a third place. There's
junior college, there's high school, there's transfer portal. You guys
have benefited from it greatly. Why do you think you've
benefited so well? I think we've embraced it. You can
(24:00):
you can be that that old guy that you know
stands out on his porch and yells at the clouds
and or and and get mad about every little thing,
or you can say this is going to happen, and
if this is going to happen, how can we use
it to our advantage to us um. The first kid
I recruited from the trans reporter was Wilton Spade, who
had left Michigan, and it was just he was just
(24:22):
such a mature when you talk to him about what
was until it was about getting into grad school, what
his degree was going to be in grad school, and
what was our football system. And when we talked about
an official visit, he said, Coach, I really I don't
need to come and get wined and dined. He's like
I think when he went to before he goes. I
went to Michigan and I walked up to my room
and there was a cookie with my name on. It
(24:44):
was the coolest thing in the world. I'm not going
to make my decision based on food. I'm gonna make
my decision on what's it like academically and what's uh
in what that degree will mean for me when I'm
done playing football, and then what type of system do
I fit into? And I remember walking away because he
was a first kid we recruited as a transfer because
I was to old school. If they want to transfer
and they don't want to be there, you know, are
(25:05):
they not loyal? But it's just a different world now.
And it's the kids we've gotten have all been extremely mature.
They've been great leaders. They're really focused on what they
want to do. They also have a shorter time so
they're not out screwballing around like, hey, I got I
got a year here. What am I going to do academically?
And how am I going to set myself up? And
what am I gonna do football wise? To make sure
(25:27):
that I have an opportunity to play after this And
it's I love the maturity of the kids and the
kids we've gotten have been fantastic and we're really excited
about it. I don't think you make a living, but
I think you still build to the high school kids
and that's where the development comes. But I think with
the NFL background we have, it's it's just like the
agency supplementary draft, you know, and what do we have?
(25:49):
You know, if we have a whole, can we fill
it here? Is there a corner out there or is
there a wide out out there? Is whatever that we
can fill? Because we really like the high school kid,
but we don't know if he's gonna be able to
play right away. But we know this kid can play
right away because he has played right away. You've actually
seen it demonstrated. So I think you good at both,
you know, and you have to be evolved. And I
think the teams that are doing well with the trans
for reportal kids are the guys that, you know, we
(26:11):
do extensive homework. You know, I call the head coach.
You know, we have a great running back right now,
Britain Brown from Duke. I called David Cutt, and I
know cut really well. We cut gave me the whole
load and loved them and what a great kid. And
this is a good fit. And you know, so there's
a lot of times I think, really your due diligence
and how you do your homework, you make no bones
(26:31):
about like what are we about? Like if you're coming
here and you're going to grad school, it's it's hard
and you gotta go to work and you gotta want
to get a grad degree, like you're not coming here
to major ineligibility. But then we get kids that don't
want to major knowledgability. They really care about the degree.
So then I don't have to worry about them off
the field and in their maturity to them. So I
we love the Trends reportal and we really embraced it.
(26:54):
What's harder recruiting high school kids and projecting if they
can work at college or drafting college kids and projecting
if they work in the pros? I don't know. I
don't know which one's harder, but I think they're both
extremely hard. Um, because the track record will tell you that.
(27:17):
You know, you look at what is it fifty percent
of first round draft picks don't make it, you know,
don't make it? Yeah, don't make it? You know. And
I always said that they have oodles of money and
how do you figure that out? But I think being
able to project what people are like the big thing
with the NFL when they get money. You know, for
some guys, their goal is I want to make it
(27:38):
to the NFL. You did, now what you know? What
do you do with that? And um, in the same
thing at the college level, I think I saw a
thing that half of the five star quarterbacks have transferred
in the last five years. Anybody that was a five star,
you know, how many are on their second or third
schools because the first school they pick didn't pan out,
so um, I think the hit rate is probably the same,
(28:00):
But it's it's the million dollar question, and who's the
best at evaluating. I think where you're really good is
do you know and not get caught up on what
people think on the outside, but what do you know
what fits on your team and how that works? And
the guys that are the best at it don't really
pay attention to the outside things and just worry about
(28:20):
is this guy a good fit for the type of
system we run? And will it be a good fit
in our locker room, will be a good fit in
our school, will it be a good fit in our
pro organization? Whichever one it is? And I think the
fit part and the people that can project the fit
are the best at it. You know, it's interesting. I
have a theory and I'll throw my theory that concerns me.
(28:42):
I grew up as a Pac twelve football fan. I
would call it sort of the health and wellness or
green plate concern out West is that the economy and
silicon value is so great it has spread to California,
Laws Angels, Salt Lake, Portland, Eugene, Seattle, and Boulder and
(29:07):
these places. Now home prices are doubling. And what happens
when people make money, They eat better, they vacation more.
And I said this. About seven eight years ago, I
started noticing West Coast high school kids offensive lineman shrink
and I said, God, these college coaches, these kids are
(29:29):
two hundred and sixty eight pounds. You have to project
how they play at three oh five. A southern kid,
a high school kid in the South or Midwest or Houston,
he's eight and you only have to project if he
adds ten pounds. And I said, are we too healthy?
Out West? Mom goes vegan, Dad supports mom. The plates
are greener, the kid gets smaller. Now this just maybe horseshit,
(29:53):
But I follow recruiting my whole life ship. I've been
I've been getting magazine since I was like eighteen, and
it does I do ask my friends. I said, why
are the offensive lineman like two sixty eight to two
seventy two out here? Is my theory nonsense or is
there something? Is there a challenge out there that you
have to project on size and there are just fewer
(30:16):
big kids out here? There's something to it, I think,
I mean, maybe we can study it. We can get
an economist for freakonomics to look at that. I know
there's a when you look at just from a if
you study it from an analytics standpoint, the dearth of
defensive linemen come from the southeast, you know, and there's
a bunch of them, you know. And it's when you
(30:38):
look at per capita in high schools and it's you know, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama.
There there. That's just the sheer numbers, you know, and
that's part of what you deal with. But there's also
been some really good players on the West Coast. I
don't think it's ever a black and white where it's
all this For all that, I think there's there's something
in there. You know. That part of that is if
(31:00):
that is an issue, then what are you doing nutritionally
to supplement that? So if you're saying, we're projecting this
kid from two hundred sixty five pound kid to being
a three hundred five pound kid, and what's your nutrition
program like at your school, and is that a feasible
thing for those kids to do? You know? And I
think they all come in all shapes and sizes and
where you find him and how you find them. You know,
(31:20):
you look at Penney Sewell, who's who's a West Coast guy?
You know, when is the first guy off the board.
And then you look at Rashon Slater, who wasn't really
a highly recruited kid out of high school, and he's
the second one off the board. You know, when I
was in Philadelphia in our first year, we drafted Lane Johnson.
He was a quarterback in high school. He went to
junior college quarterback and then was it tight and then
went to Oklahoma is a tight end. Then he played
(31:42):
some defense and he's an All Pro offensive tackle. Now
Cam Akers is a running back for the Rams. And
I was telling less sneed I said, the fact that
he quarterbacked in high school. He didn't have five thousand
carries in high school like as Zeke Elliot or sae
Quon Barkley. So he's not as beat up up. He's
got a longer tarmac, no question, and that developmental piece. Um.
(32:05):
You know, the other tackle we had when I was
in Philadelphia, Jason Peters was a tight end college. You know,
he's potentially a Hall of Fame offensive tackle. That was
a tight end that was an undrafted free agent that
Jim mcnaale found, I think, and they signed him and
developed him and he turned into one of the best
tackles to ever play. So they they come from all over.
I just think you need to search long and hard.
(32:27):
For us, we're looking at frames all the time and
what can the what can the body hold? You know?
I think sometimes that's an issue where the kid is
what you get it to sixty? Is he four years
later he's gonna be two sixty, or is what you
get it to sixty gonna be um, you know, be
three hundred. You know, kurk Ferenz is known for He's
got a great reputation in college football for finding those
(32:48):
two and twenty pound guys somewhere in Iowa and then
all of a sudden they become a first round draft
because they're three hundred pounds. You know, who can where
is it? But that person had to have a frame
that could put that much weight on. So I think
that's it's really how you look at it and develop it.
It's a key component to what you're looking at. But
I think you're right there are there is something too
(33:08):
And I know just from the analytics part of it.
Where most of the defensive lineman coming. Most defensive linemen
are coming from the southeast. Yeah. I talked to Urban
Meyer once he was working at Fox and I said,
we were talking about USC and I think he considered it,
and you know, I told him my theory about the
green plates and he said, he said, there, he goes,
(33:30):
You know, we didn't go west very often for a
defensive lineman at Ohio State. He goes, we loved their quarterbacks,
receivers and corners, so he thought it was interesting. But
I remember him saying, he goes, I would probably recruit
Texas pretty hard if I was a West coast I mean,
you did it. You've recruited Texas very well. At Oregon,
I recall, yeah, we kind of we knew where to
(33:52):
go and where to hit. Texas is just such a
good state, and they're so well coached, and they have
year round football. So one of the things I think
people really enjoyed about from a recruiting standpoint, what if
you recruited Texas is that you went there in the
spring and you actually watched them practice football. You know,
at some in some states in this country, they don't
play football in the springtime, so you never get a
(34:13):
chance to you're projecting. You know what was the kid like, Well,
he looked really good walking down the hall. You know,
that was the only evaluation you could get on the
kid during the spring recruiting period. But I would argue,
if you're here on the West Coast, there's eighty percent
of our roster and we were at Organ was from California,
you know, so you really got to make sure you
take care of the home base. Now, we would always
(34:35):
you can submit your class, but you got to have
a kind of a home recruiting base and know where
that most of your players are coming from. I used
to always argue the quality of life coaching college is
much higher than it is at the NFL level. But
now you have to recruit year round. I could make
an argument now the NFL coaches have a little bit
of an offseason. You guys, don't are you a fan
(34:57):
of this dual signing period, because I think it hurts
the quality of life for you guys. It's not the
quality of life, but it's I think ninety percent of
the kids sign in December, and the kids who don't,
I think if you told them they had to sign
in December, and then you left the window open, like,
if you don't want to sign in December, you don't
have to, but we're not having a second signing date.
Like I I go back to h it was a
(35:20):
few good men. Why the two orders? That's what they
said all the time in the movie. Why the two orders?
Why the two signing dates? There's one signing date, Just
sign it and if they don't sign, just leave it
open from December and signing date to close it in
February and the month of January it's open. If they
want to sign, they can sign. But why to have
second signing date? I don't I don't know. I think
(35:40):
you know, sometimes there's unintended consequences. But when you look
at the numbers and they've gone up and up every year,
when they when they spent the first signing date, I
think it was ninety percent of the kids signed it
the first signing date this year and it was during
COVID and no one could take official visits and still
didn't affect them. They committed and signed and we're ready
to go. So I hope at one time that's one
thing that can change, because most people, if you're signing
(36:04):
nine kids in December, when you're going back out on
the road in January, you're looking at underclassman or you're
saving spots for transfers. So the coaches have already moved
forward on it. I think it's really hopefully it's just
an administrative thing. At some point in time, they'll they'll
take that part away, the second one away an NFL
college career. The greatest football coach player you've ever coached,
(36:27):
the single greatest player you've ever coached. That's a great question.
I would say, you know, from a talent standpoint, Jason
Peters at in Philadelphia was as good at tackle at
that's ever played the game. Personal favre was Darren Sprowles.
You know he was. You meet Darren Sprowls and you're
like wow, like that's an NFL player, and then watch
(36:50):
him for five minutes in practice Colin and you're like wow,
like that's what's so special. We were in a walkthrough.
He took a handoff and it was Ota rules and
you can't do anything. There's so many rules in the
off season. What you can do, I can't do when
he's sprinted, and I was like, Baron, it's it's walks through.
You can't sprint. And he was like, I haven't lasted
(37:10):
this long in the NFL by not sprinting, So I'm
a sprint I said, all right, everybody else walked there
AND's run full speed and and and everybody just you
just watched him. I don't know anybody that's ever practiced
as hard as he's ever practiced. And when you look
at his career, he got played thirteen years in the
National Football League, and it's he's as tough as they come,
(37:31):
he's as gracious as they come, he's as competitive as
they come, and he could do it all. He could return,
he could carry the football, he could catch the ball
coming out of the backfield, and he was just he
was just an amazing guy to be around on a
daily basis. But you know, those two guys kind of
jump out just because of you know, obviously he'sn't just
(37:52):
because of how athletic a guy that that size, and
I mean, he's really a Hall of Fame type tackle,
you know, to be around some I remember and moved
the first time and I was like, holy smokes, is
I can't believe how athletic this guy is, you know,
And there was and it's there was a ton of others,
you know, coaching Marcus. You know, a good guy who
won the Heisman Trophy and Marcus Mariota and what an
(38:13):
amazing athlete. And how quick he processed things, you know,
the ability to run, how accuracy was his ability to
process things. You know, he was a special player. There
was There was a bunch of really good players that
I had an opportunity to coach. Chip. It's great seeing
you enjoy your bike rides, your lovely bride. You got
a great life. I'm rooting for you, and I appreciate
(38:35):
this man. All right, buddy, sorry, all right. You know what, man,
Chip Kelly is one of those guys that when you
listen to him, very pragmatic, super smart. The Philadelphia situation
was crazy. He goes ten and six, ten and six
with quarterbacks who are kind of like at the end
(38:55):
of their career or have been replaced somewhere in Philadelphia
hated him. Why Philadelphia is a market about tradition. He's contrarian.
He didn't do it the way they'd seen it in Philadelphia,
it should be noted, has fired every coach. Andy Reid
had the best winning percentage at fifty eight. Rich co
(39:16):
tite the worst at fifty four and they all got fired.
When you get hired to coach the Eagles, Nick Sirianni,
good luck. You will be out in two years three Max.
And with that we bring in my buddy Chad Milman,
chief content officer, Action Network, which just sold this past
week for two hundred and forty million dollars, which is
a lot of money. According to my sources, that is
(39:38):
a shit ton of money. So Millman, you're not a
big spender guy. I don't see you as a lambo
guy or a third home guy or a private jet guy.
Did you go out and buy something though? You know,
it's funny. I like to think of it as not
two hundred and forty million dollars, but a quarter of
(40:00):
a billion dollars, just because you know, it sounds better
and it's funny. You're right, I am not a big
spender at all. I live in central Connecticut, in West Herford,
you know, in the same town you used to live
before you high tailed it out for the West Coast.
And like, as this was happening, of course, we think about,
(40:26):
you know, we're gonna come into some cash. What do
we want to do with it? My wife and I.
She's from New York. We lived in the city for
a long time. We thought we do we get into
problement in the city, and at the end of the day,
we haven't done anything, and we're not planning on doing anything.
The truth is, all of a sudden, life becomes practical again,
(40:49):
and we have a son going to college, and we
have another sun starting high school. And it sounds so
boring to say, but we don't know where the funk
we're going to live in four years. So I'm not
buying a place in the city. I'm not buying a
place in the beach if I'm not going to want
to live near either of those things, because I might
want to move into your beach house. I might want
to move into your backyard in four years. So for now,
(41:12):
we're still using gift cards when we order from a
vert our best restaurant in West Herford. Well, I think
I told you this in the phone the other day.
I've made a good living for a long time. It's
never been about what I can buy. It's about what
I don't have to do anymore, which is, if I
wanted to, I could have a yard guy three times
a week. I could have somebody come in four days
a wait and clean the house. I've found that money
(41:34):
isn't about what you buy, It's about what you don't
have to do anymore. You can just concentrate in your
family and your business. It's an efficiency changer. It's interesting
you say it like that, and obviously it's a weird
thing to talk about because you're so lucky to be
in this position to have an exit like this. And
(42:00):
I'm lucky to have been at the business since the beginning,
you know, leaving ESPN to help launch it and so
to accumulate value in the business, right, And so we
think a lot about it and what it would mean
to us and all those kinds of things. And I'm
gonna put it in perspective in two different ways, because
we were having this conversation with friends the other day.
(42:20):
It really just means, and it sounds obnoxious to say this,
it just means, if we're going to go on vacation,
I'm less stressed about where we're staying and what we're
spending on vacation, which is, by the way, is a massive,
massive luxury to have in life. And even when I
(42:42):
was having a I was not sort of lucky enough
to be getting some kind of windfall from this and
making a very nice salary, you would still think about it. Right.
We look at houses to rent, We look at hotels,
and I think, can I stay there with points? So
I want to spend that much in the house. If
I stayed two blocks further from the beach, it's you know,
a couple gred of lass. I go to this town,
(43:03):
it's less than this town. That kind of thing. The
other thing that's really interesting that you say, just thinking
about the business. We knew this deal was coming, and
it's been going on for a couple of months, and
we were fortunate enough as a business that there was
a process where there were a lot of people involved
who were interested in acquiring the business, and when it
(43:23):
came down to it, in the company that bought us
better collective. This past weekend, we knew the deal was closing,
and I kind of wondered when I woke up on
Monday morning, how was I going to feel. I left
ESPN in September of twenty seventeen, that's three and a
half years ago. Every day since that day, I have
been thinking about how are we positioning this business for
(43:47):
an exit, What does the landscape look like, what does
the competition look like? What do we need to be
doing to put ourselves in a position to be attractive.
Whether it's a media company, an operator, a company like
Better Collective that is an affiliate business based in up
that bought us, whatever the case may be, who's doing what,
where are the deals happening? Who do we need to
be talking to? How am I, as an executive at
(44:08):
the company thinking strategically about this and communicating that with
our CEO, our CEO or I had a finance whoever
it was, and when that was ending, I wondered, when
I wake up on Monday morning, am I going to
think I want out? I don't want to do this anymore.
My energy is spent. And what I found was I
(44:29):
woke up on Monday morning and was incredibly energized and
incredibly motivated because to your point about the personal finance,
but also for the business. I was unburdened from having
to think about some of those things. And when I
thought strategically, I could only I only had to think
about how am I going to grow this business for
this new company that owns us that and I've derisked
(44:51):
a lot of the urgency about selling the business. Yeah,
I mean, listen, you're either a competitive person or or not.
I mean, part of me leaving ESPN is I won
I make four times as much. I'm off at noon,
I live in a better city. My ratings are through
the roof. That's part of it that when you leave
a company, part of it is competing. You're a competitive person.
(45:12):
I'm a competitive person. So congrats on a winning Now,
this is interesting. The whole Aaron Rodgers thing is off
the board for a lot of people. As of right now.
Does the Action Network have him staying or leaving Green Bay?
We're only judging it based on what we are seeing
(45:33):
in the markets. And in the markets you are seeing
the Broncos that went from seventy to one to twelve
to one in some places, based on the reports that
we're out there now, you're right, and a lot of
places you can't bet on the Packers. You can't bet
on their season win totals. This is fascinating because as
(45:57):
far as I can tell, the Packers have all the
ridge right. They don't have to trade him. They can
keep a guy who's one of the most talented quarterbacks
in NFL history and have him play for them because
he's under contract. And the truth is whoever they trade
him to, the value is going to be in future value.
(46:18):
So if they trade him to the Broncos, the Broncos
are going to give the Packers first round picks. But
those first round picks are going to be based on
how well the Broncos performed with Aaron Rodgers as their quarterback.
They could win the Super Bowl and then all of
a sudden, the first round pick is the thirty second
pick in the first round. So it's very interesting how
(46:40):
any team and how the Packers could even try to
negotiate what a trade looks like. One other thing here,
and I was talking to my kid about this today.
If you look back, you would have thought when Aaron
Rodgers won the Super Bowl in twenty ten, I think
it was that he was going to go on a stretch.
He's such a pinpoint, precise passer, he's so good in
the pocket, he's so smart. It turns out he may
(47:03):
have been lucky to win that because in the end,
he didn't have a very good head coach for the
majority of his career. His team did not support him
with offensive weapons. He is very lucky to have gotten
that one, let alone thinking oh he should have gotten
more and maybe losing it NFC title games. He's just
lucky to have gotten a title. Yeah, you know it's
(47:24):
funny if he goes to Denver. If I was Green Bay,
I would want a receiver because my takeaway is picks
are fine, but in the end, Jordan Love needs more,
ammo or I'm going to look horrific in this deal.
And you don't want to I said it today on
the air. You don't want to have a Carmelo to
the next deal where Denver is forced to trade him
(47:45):
to the one team he'll go to. And then by
the time Mello gets there, he's a chandelier in a
house that has no furniture. And it's like, if Aaron
demands West Coast, that absolutely desentivizes that advice is green
Bay to give anything away. Aaron should be open to Miami,
open to the giants. This whole thing about Jeopardy actress
(48:09):
moved west that doesn't help Aaron Rodgers in my opinion whatsoever. No,
do you know what's interesting? And you mentioned the assets
when Deshaun Watson before the reports came out about the
sexual harassment and his market Uh, you know, disinerated, disappeared, incinerated, disappeared,
(48:33):
whatever the word is that, I'm disintegrated. Disintegrated, that is
the word. Words are not my thing. Thank you for that.
You're not money. Money and cash is your thing. I
completely lost it when when that was happening, someone asked
me what would you trade from the Chicago Bears for
(48:56):
Deshaun Watson. I thought to myself, I would trade Khalil
Mack and I would trade my next eight first round
draft picks, because at the end of the day, an
all star quarterback who can be generational as Deshaun Watson
has proven to be, is worth all of that because
(49:16):
that's a sure thing you've got it. Every other pick
you get you don't know what you're getting. So it really,
to me, it does come down to the assets that
the Packers could get. Now the draft is over. I
thought the Chargers really solved their offensive line issues. I
thought the Browns in the offseasons solved their secondary issues
about Kansas City, rebuilt their offensive line. I thought Miami
(49:37):
had the best pure draft first five picks could all
start any move. I mean, god, I don't look at
the Chargers the same today as I did two months ago.
Did the draft change any of the odds in your opinion?
It did change it for In my opinion, it changed
it for the Chargers because I think, like I already
(50:02):
had them to win the Super Bowl. I had him
at like I can't remember, fifty to one maybe, But
if you look at the board, it's all the same teams.
The Browns moved up a little bit. The Browns were
in the twenty to one range. Now they're in the
(50:24):
sixteen to one range. I mentioned to the Broncos. The
Broncos have moved up tremendously. They were at seventy to
one now they're at twenty two to one. But the
rest of them, you know, I'm looking at the Chargers
are at about thirty two to one, so there's a
little bit of movement there. The Dolphins are about thirty
to one. That hasn't been that big of a move
(50:44):
because there was already a lot of attention being paid
to them. There hasn't been massive movement outside of what
you were talking about for the Broncos because of Aaron Rodgers.
When you look at the draft and free agency and
coach generally does the market change? What is the theory
(51:04):
on I'm gonna wait for camp I'm gonna wait for
the exhibition season. How do I get the best number
on a future? Does it come now or later? You
kind of missed it. It really happens it, I mean, look,
it just does. It's now from the past, say two
months before free agency is when you really want to
(51:27):
start thinking about this, When you want to start playing
the market, When you want to start looking at rosters,
looking at openings, looking who's going to be a free agent.
Where will a big move happen? Could there be a
quarterback type move with like Tom Brady and Tampa Bay.
The next best time will be once the season begins
(51:49):
and you've started seeing some kind of potential on the
field with certain teams. Maybe they maybe the Bengals came
out and lost their opening game, but they were playing
the Chiefs and they didn't get blown out by the Chiefs.
They played pretty well. Those first four weeks for an
(52:11):
NFL season are when so many decisions get made and
you start to learn so much about a team. If
you look back over the years, take the Falcons for example.
The Falcons, over the years, we'd always start off really hot,
and they'd be six and oh seven or no, you know,
seven and one, and then they'd fade in the second
(52:31):
half of the year, but they'd still be a playoff
team by the time they get to the playoffs. You
could look back at their games and say, Okay, earlier
in the year they beat three or four teams that
high expectations but turned out to be not very good.
Then they struggled against some teams that people had low expectations,
turned out to be very good, and we started to
see who they really were. You get this transitive property
(52:52):
feeling about how teams are playing. So if you can
watch a lot of games during the year and through
that first four weeks to get a sense of who's
undervalued by how they do on the field, if they
struggled or if they played good teams really well, and
look at their schedule and map that out, and you've
talked about this, then you can find some value. But
(53:12):
this range between draft and the start of the season,
you're not going to get much. By the way, we
know Denver's odds go up if Aaron goes there, what
would happen to Green Bay's win total if he leaves
where is it at now, It's about ten and a half.
Where would it go with Jordan Love? Oh gosh, I
can't look Aaron Rodgers all world quarterback MVP. This team's
(53:37):
winning what thirteen games? Fourteen games a year? That's why
you can expect, especially the past two seasons. Obviously, what
do you know about Jordan Love? And what do you
know about the rest of this team other than Aaron Rodgers.
If Jordan Love is the quarterback, I'm taking this thing
down to eight minimum. Chad Millman, he just sold us company.
(54:01):
He's humble, but he literally right now could turn off
his Internet provider and never talk to America again and
swim in Christall. It's an amazing thing. Yes, it's so true.
It's obnoxious, but I could not be happier for you. Honestly,
(54:22):
thank you. You have been tremendously supportive. I will say
this both at ESPN and then when I was thinking
about making this move to leave ESPN, you were unbelievably
supportive and all in on taking as big a risk
as possible. And I appreciate the support and the enthusiasm.
You know you're rich when you could have a really
(54:44):
bad meth habit and still be rich ten years later.
That's where Millman's at. I'm gonna, you know what, I'm
just gonna go try it and see what happens. See
your buddy, see your brother. I'll talk to you later. We,
of course, are hoping. Chad Millman never ever has a
(55:04):
meth habit. I just suggested he could overcome it financially.
Of course, we would never ever hope that happens. We
are good people here. Follow us at The Volume sports
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(00:31):
the Friday Morning Podcast. First of all, Chip Kelly is
going to talk NFL Eagles, his Oregon days. How close
did he come to take in the Florida job. He's
Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, We're talking everything with him than
Chad Milman. Really excited. One of the smartest guys I've
ever met in football. Chip Kelly joins us today. But
(00:52):
as always, it's Friday, It's time for fake questions and
real answers. Here we go, Dear Colin. Was there a
time when stats were more important than titles? When did
that change? And who changed it? Well? I think titles
owas mattered, but I think Michael Jordan really pierced through
(01:18):
sports like nobody ever had. He was not only the
best player, he was the most glamorous. He was the coolest,
He was the best looking, He was the best dressed.
And so Bill Russell won almost twice as many titles,
but he wasn't as dynamic offensively or as cool. Jerry
West was called mister clutch. He went one for eight
(01:41):
in the finals, and then Jordan came around. I mean,
think about that. With Jerry West one for eight, he's
mister clutch. It's not just that Michael was the best
basketball player in the world. It was the way he
did it. He had the first big shoe campaign. It
created sort of this force field around him. He failed
(02:03):
at baseball, he got a divorce, there was gambling, he
was awful with the Wizards. It didn't matter. You couldn't
pierce it. And so I think once Michael Jordan now
is so popular. He was the most popular NBA player
according to polls twenty years after he retired. Is that
we just look at it differently now? Is that Michael
(02:24):
is so popular that we judge everything on perfection in basketball,
by the way we don't in football. Joe Montana's four
for four, Tom Brady's got three Super Bowl losses. We
don't care. The minute he had five Super Bowls, he's better.
It wouldn't matter if Lebron James won seven titles. He's
not as cool, His game doesn't have the offensive appeal.
(02:45):
Jordan changed all the rules for basketball and perhaps sports.
There's never been an athlete who was the best, the coolest,
the best looking, the best dress, the most glamorous, and
the most popular. And don't kid yourself, Lebron will never
be as popular as Michael Jordan. Dear Colin, you can
be very critical of players. What happens when you meet
somebody you criticize face to face? Is it civil or
(03:09):
do you throw down? Well, it's happened a few times.
Most athletes are pretty passive when you meet him because
they know you go on the air the next day.
So why tick me off? Why be confrontational? But the
truth is I'm not that critical. Yeah, I've been rough
on Baker Mayfield, but if you took everything I ever said,
it's probably a fifty fifty split. I got the Browns
(03:31):
winning the division this year and getting to the AFC Championship.
I've been tough on Russell Westbrook, I've been tough on
Aaron Rodgers. I'm just tougher than the local media. But
the truth is, if you took everything I've ever said
about Westbrook, Aaron and Mayfield, it's fifty fifty. It's just
ninety ten in their favor from local media. So I
(03:53):
don't see myself is unruly and unwieldy in terms of criticism.
I think I'm fair, by the way. Ten years before
anybody else talked about it, we said there were questions
about Aaron Rodgers body language, his eye rolling, and his leadership.
It's now that everybody else talks about it. I'd rather
(04:14):
be first when it comes to those judgments, because I
watched the games, I watch body language. I just don't
think I'm that unfair. Dear Colin, do you see impressions
that people do of you, and what do you think
they get right or wrong? I don't see a lot
of them. There's a kid at barstool, Joey something that
I think's funny. It's the first one I ever saw
and I laughed at. I think he's got down kind
(04:37):
of my style, or I often repeat stuff to accentuate points.
I think he's very good, actually and very funny. I
always as a kid I did impressions growing up. I
did Howard Cosell, I did Keith Jackson, I did Marv Albert,
I did Vince Scully, and they were all the broadcasters
I liked, so I take that stuff as a compliment.
(04:57):
If somebody's impersonating you have a style, I'm good with that. Colin,
you're a coastal liberal. So you can't see that the
media is liberal. Open your eyes. No, I have largely
acknowledged the media is liberal in fact on social issues.
(05:18):
Eileen left on virtually everything. The difference is unlike the
rest of the media. I admit it socially on left. Fiscally,
I'm moderate, sometimes right, but mostly right in the middle.
I view myself as an independent. Where the media gets
in trouble is when they don't realize they're a business
and they're not authentic with their audience. Listen, the NBA
(05:39):
ratings have gone down thirty five percent in two years.
The basketball didn't get worse, The players didn't get worse.
What happened they went all in on politics. The Oscar
ratings the last two years have tanked. They've lost forty
five to fifty percent of their audience. The movies didn't
necessarily get worse. The actors weren't more pompous or self absorbed.
(06:03):
They went all in on politics. Just admitute. There's a
big chunk of people who don't want politics with their movies,
their award ceremonies, or their sports. I occasionally talked Trump,
mostly tweaked him because I think he's bizarre and a
fire hose of narcissism. He's gone now. I'm really honest
about my politics and about the media. They lean left.
(06:29):
What worries me is how few do they don't. Seventy
percent of newspaper people in studies done for years are Democrats.
Of course it sometimes shades their views. Just be upfront
about it. Colin. A lot of people are selling their companies.
(06:50):
I just read a story where the Athletic is trying
to be sold. What is your take? My take is
I didn't build the volume to be sold. I've built
it to work at it forever. If somebody wants to
spend a lot of money and buy it, I'll consider it.
But I'm not retiring. In terms of the Athletic, I
thought they made one big mistake when they started. Anytime
(07:12):
you have a business that is behind a paywall, it's
a subscription service. It is really hard to drive people
through that wall. Instead of hiring media critics and hockey writers,
I would have gone out and found the ten best
podcasters I could and the ten best Columness I could
to drive people through a paywall. They did the opposite.
(07:35):
They got beat reporters. They were slow on podcasts. They
tried to make it a volume play with journalism. There's
simply too much on the market right now, free blogs,
the Internet you don't have to pay for to get.
Too much of their information is already duplicated in non
paywall businesses. So I think it's destined to never sell
(07:59):
for the amount the Athletic wants it to. The minute
you go paywall, Howard Stern was the first to break
through it. Sirius. XM exists because of Howard and the NFL.
People are willing to pay a monthly fee for both.
Ninety percent of serious XM channels have virtually no audience.
(08:20):
Years ago, I read a study or a report that
ninety percent of albums, ninety percent of all albums had
fewer than ten copies sold. Ten percent of all albums
make all the business. So good luck to the Athletic.
(08:41):
But from day one I didn't buy into their business plan,
even though I rooted for him. All right, let's bring
on Chip Kelly, UCLA head coach. Big year for him,
big year for him. He's got to win now. At
the end of last year, they were a much better team,
and we'll get into the transfer portal. They have used
that very smartly this offseason. They got four, maybe five
(09:04):
starters out of the transfer portal. We're gonna talk Eagles,
We're gonna talk UCLA sec Nick Saban, Pete Carroll. Let's
bring on Chip Kelly. So it's funny, Chip. When I
think of you, I do think certain coaches fit certain areas.
New Hampshire fits for you, Eugene fits for you. La
(09:29):
Manhattan Beach fits for you. And then I think Philadelphia.
Oh no, I mean you won. What's funny. I looked
it up today. You won. Buddy Ryan won fifty five
percent of his games, Andy Reid fifty eight. You won
fifty five. So did Peterson. Y'all got whacked. That's Philadelphia.
It's angry. And I think of Philadelphia and I think
(09:53):
was there ever a moment, maybe before you took the
job or during it, you thought, Ah, these people they're
angry a lot. Now, honestly, I loved it and I
love the fans. I think anywhere where you can be
somewhere where your fans are passionate. Um, I'll take that
one hundred percent of time over someone that isn't passionate.
(10:15):
And it's they live and breathe it, they love, they
love sports, and it's um of the Mike Schmidt quote
you have to understand is uh, it's the only place
where you can enjoy victory on UM Sunday and then
be depressed reading about it on Monday. You know, something
to that effect, where it's it's never good enough. But
(10:38):
I think as coaches, it's never good enough for us either.
All all my mind goes to is what's our next game?
Who we play next? You know we're done, Like, let's
I'm out into the celebration and let's go crazy. I
think that town um thinks the same way. You know
when it's I enjoyed it. I really did. And I
know some people, UM, you know from the outside, if
(10:58):
you're not inside it, I think you can kind of
ask you just like on the place does. But I
love the fans of Philadelphia. I thought they were awesome.
Now UCLA is different. It's historically a basketball school and
the football stadiums down the road from the campus. It's
Los Angeles, there's option the A bad day of weather
is sixty eight and partly cloudy. Does that frustrate you
(11:19):
or have you come to terms with that that it's
more casual? I think because you're always internally motivated, so
it's not It doesn't really to me. It doesn't matter
where I am, It matters who you get an opportunity
to be around. The unique thing for me about us
LA was the kids that chose to go to school
here are intrinsically motivated. They understand that it's going to
(11:39):
be challenging academically, and you want to be around kids
like that. You want to be at a place where
they want to be successful and everything that they do.
And talk to David Chalm about what his experience at
Stanford is like, and it's there are schools that are different,
the USLAS to Stanfords and Notre Dames in northwesterns. But
when you look at them, whether it's Mike Bray or
Pat Fitzgerald or David, is that you know you want
(12:03):
to be around guys that want to be challenged on
a lead basis. And if you look at some of
the classes that our players take, you understand that they
understand that challenge too, and if you almost have you
don't have to deal with some of the things that
other guys have to deal with. You know, you've got
kids that are you don't have to worry about kids
going to class because they chose her, because they want
to go to class, you know. So some of the
things that I think some college coaches are more worried about,
(12:25):
we don't have to worry about. So to me, it
was about the players, and there was about a school
that's committed to excellence. You know, they won one hundred
and eighteen final championships in various sports, but they have
the last one they won in football is in nineteen
fifty four. So I looked at it as a challenge,
you know, on a challenge that at this point in
time in my career I was excited to be a
part of. It's almost like you were before your time
(12:47):
in the NFL. Do you look at some of the
poll Nation kind of college football into the NFL now
and think, you know, maybe I was about eight years
ahead of it. You know, if and I've said this before,
but if you weren't in the room with Amos Alonzo
Stag and Newt Rock Me when they invented this game,
then you stole it from somebody else, you know. So
(13:09):
Dutch Myers, who was the head coach at TCU in
the fifties, was running empty no backs. You know, when
no one talks about it. You know, everybody talks about
when we got to Oregon and we're running up tempo
and know how to well. Sam Weish was doing that
in the NFL with the Cincinnati Angles, you know, and
and Marv Levy was doing it with the Buffalo Bills
and the key gun. You know. So it's it's cyclical.
(13:30):
I think it's just trying to figure out what applies
the game itself. I think that at the next level
has turned into more of a spread out game because
people have realized the athletes are so good, we better
get him in space. You know, the days of Buddy
Ryan was ahead of his game because he ran the
forty six defense. Everybody was in two back and you
(13:51):
couldn't run the ball, you know, when they had those
monsters up front, was singletary behind them, and they played
press man on your two receivers and you couldn't get off.
So how you combat those defenses that are all in
the box Because we've got to spread people out, and
that's where I think the college spread out game has
kind of moved to the professional level. And there are
some guys, you know, Andy Reid's a great example. You know,
(14:12):
you look what Sean Payton's doing with two quarterbacks and
you get a whole fame quarterback and Drew Brees and
he takes out of the game sometimes so Tasom Hill
can play. You know, it's I think everybody's still evolving
and that's the fun. But I think there's a lot
of similarities. It used to be really different where college
I think ten twelve years ago was one way. In
the NFL was different. But I really think there's a
lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of
(14:33):
carry over from both now. The callin Coward podcast proud
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the tempo up collegiately. I remember Nick Saban one time
(15:37):
told me privately. He says, I don't I think I
can say it now. We were up in Bristol and
he said, you know my concern about this. He goes
the officials the game is so fast. He goes in
the Auburn game, and he didn't want to say this
because Auburn beat him. He goes, there were eleven miss
calls on both sides. He goes, the officials were just
not in place. He goes, at the athletes will figure
(15:59):
out out the speed, so will the coaches I'm not
sure fifty nine year old officials can when you were
speeding up the tempo, and there were guys like Saban
that said, I'm not sure football is meant to be
played this fast. Did you see that as just kind
of proprietary I'm protecting my program or were there concerns
out there that were legit? Now I think it was proprietary.
(16:23):
You know, the two biggest and there's two great coaches
at the time were Nick Saban and Brett Delamo. But
look at what they ran offensively, you know, and I
would in the same way, like, well, why can't we
play fast because I think you should play fast. Well,
we played fast as an equalizer, So how do we
tire out an see defensive alignment because we're not going
to be able to line up one on one and
knock him off the ball. So everybody comes with it
(16:46):
with a little bit jaded. And you've got to give
Nick credit. And that's why he may be the greatest
ever do this game, is he has evolved and now
he does it all. You know, the things he didn't
like he's doing. You know, he was a big guy,
didn't like RPOs. They may be the best in the
country at our pels, you know, and so when you
look at it, that's what makes him such a great
coach because he's constantly evolving. But I think a lot
(17:08):
of that when you're worried. You know, we all want
if you want to win an argument, how do I
get as much fodder on one side to the other.
You know, let's let's play to the referees. We can
get the referees on our side and they'll they'll make
the game. So now a little bit, but m Nick's
always looking for an advantage, and he's really done. You
look at what they've done and civil and where they are.
You know, you could argue that their wide receiver, you now,
which ten years ago you wouldn't have said that, But
(17:30):
now you look at the white outs that they've turned
out in the last couple of years and you're like,
holy smokes, but they're doing such a good job with it.
Because I think he's evolved with it. But yeah, I
can see him saying that because at that time, it
was a run the ball guy and let's play great defense.
Um now it's it's almost you've got to get a
stop or two in each half and then see if
(17:52):
if you can continue rolling on offense, you know, then
then you're good to go, you know, And that's really
what the game has turned into. The reason I think
Savings the best colledge coach I've ever seen is not
simply because of winning, but what hurt Mac Brown, Bobby Bowden,
Pete Carroll, and Urban in Florida. That it's transient at
(18:14):
the coaching level. That Meete kept losing coordinator after coordinator,
and I remember him telling me once in his office,
I'm recruiting coaches as as I'm recruiting defensive ends. Saban
has lost really high in assistance and just keeps reloading.
I find that it fascinating. I don't know, maybe he's
(18:37):
so connected. I mean, just take me to that. The
difficulty in losing coaches and having to find good ones
that are often better than the previous one. I mean,
that's I don't think he gets enough credit for, you know.
And I think he developed the analysts off the role,
off the field role that no one really had, and
then turned it into a real almost like a land spot.
(19:00):
You know, when you look at that, just who's been
an analyst at at Alabama, it's it's a who's who?
You know, it's it's Sark, it's Mike Locksley, it's Butch Jones,
it's Mike stoops At. The list goes on and on.
So he also has a bullpen of guys so that
when a guy leaves, he may have the guy already
(19:21):
on staff. So the transition for him is the offense
and defense and terminology doesn't change. He's not bringing in
a new guy that brings in his offense or his defense.
He's still running it the way he wants to run it. Um,
he did it with Kith Lane, started off as as
an analyst, and then he promoted Lane when he lost guys.
So he's got a unique system and I think that
that unlike anybody else. Um, you know, we only four
(19:43):
analysts and they're they're low paying jobs and they're all
real entry level jobs. You know, we don't have what
they have. But it's he set that up because I
think he was he was really conscious of that, is
that you're gonna lose coaches, So what do I do
to come back that? You know, he's he's got an
answer for everything that I think you can look at
and say, hey, this is what we The next big
hurdle is going to be larn how do I handle that?
And I think you hit it, hit it right on.
(20:05):
Is his ability to replace coaches has been been phenomenal,
you know, and almost like the next guy comes in
is better than the guy that left, and the guy
that left was really good. I remember when I really
thought you broke through a certain threshold when you caught
Pete Carroll flatfooted in Eugene, and that was a good
(20:27):
sc team and they did not have an answer, And
I always wanted to ask you they had. Really they
were literally dominating recruiting on the West Coast. If there
were twenty great players, they were getting fourteen to sixteen.
And the week before, the week before that game, you're
playing up tempo and Pete goes up there, and I
swear to god, there was a moment I thought he
(20:48):
was going to grab a white towel and just start
waiving it. Did you did you see the game before
it happened? Did you sense they just weren't ready for
the pace of play you and the Ducks delivered. I
don't know if they weren't ready, because I mean, he's
such a good coach, but I think it was. It's
one of those things you know, the unique thing of
(21:09):
college football that I think everybody truly and hopefully we
can get back to it is when you can get
it rolling at home and it's that atmosphere. You know, everybody,
it's such an am game at the college level that
when you can we hit a couple of plays early
and then all of a sudden it took off and
then the crowd was behind us. And it was Halloween night.
(21:29):
We were wearing black uniforms, and you know, the stars
were aligned. I don't know if it was much is
that we didn't we cutch them flat footed, but you know,
our players made plays that day and it was it
wasn't a we outschemed him or anything like that. Is
just our our players just kind of played. And I
think the unique thing, and I know you know about
it is playing up there in Eugene is a real
(21:51):
tough place to play, you know, and it's no matter
what it is. You know, you listen to the even
the basketball you go back to the UCLA days when
they used to go up there and playing the old
basketball arena, MacArthur Court, it was always a difficult atmosphere.
So it's always difficult to go play games and for
some reason. USC at the time of Pete, he had
gone up and lost to Oregon State the year before.
You know, they they struggled in the state of Oregon
(22:11):
on the road, and we kind of knew that and
we picked that up as much as we could with
our guys. So it was one of those days where
kind of you look back and say, hey, you know,
that was a pretty good night. It's interesting you've said
you love passion and you love the environment. Florida. Jeremy
Foley was very interested in you. Well, their passion is crazy.
In the SEC. That's the loudest stadium along with Otson
(22:33):
I've ever been in. It is Gainesville and Otson. How
strongly did you consider Florida and the SEC? I considered
Ball and it was Scott Strickland at the time, who
I think is one of the top athletic directors in
the country. You know, I had a couple opportunities and
I just felt that this at the was the right
time for myself and my wife when we decided where
(22:54):
we wanted to go, and a lot of again, I
think to me, that challenge, you know, is it quote
unquote a basketball school? All right, Well, then let's see
if we can change that and let's do it the
right way with really good kids. To me, it was
more of maybe this was more of a challenge, and
that's what really got my blood boiling. I've heard, you know,
(23:17):
I tell people this all the time on my staff.
I'll say, listen, man, challenges or opportunities. And the transfer
portal came out and I heard a lot of old coaches,
you know, bitching about it, and it was funny. I
called a couple of coaches and I said, isn't it
basically a better version of junior college? You already know
they can play at the D one level. It's never
(23:38):
really an academic issue. It's they miss home and they
didn't get a play at Ohio States. They want to
come back to UCLA. I look at the transfer portal.
I think, oh, Chip Kelly's got a third place. There's
junior college, there's high school, there's transfer portal. You guys
have benefited from it greatly. Why do you think you've
benefited so well? I think we've embraced it. You can
(24:00):
you can be that that old guy that you know
stands out on his porch and yells at the clouds
and or and and get mad about every little thing,
or you can say this is going to happen, and
if this is going to happen, how can we use
it to our advantage to us um. The first kid
I recruited from the trans reporter was Wilton Spade, who
had left Michigan, and it was just he was just
(24:22):
such a mature when you talk to him about what
was until it was about getting into grad school, what
his degree was going to be in grad school, and
what was our football system. And when we talked about
an official visit, he said, Coach, I really I don't
need to come and get wined and dined. He's like
I think when he went to before he goes. I
went to Michigan and I walked up to my room
and there was a cookie with my name on. It
(24:44):
was the coolest thing in the world. I'm not going
to make my decision based on food. I'm gonna make
my decision on what's it like academically and what's uh
in what that degree will mean for me when I'm
done playing football, and then what type of system do
I fit into? And I remember walking away because he
was a first kid we recruited as a transfer because
I was to old school. If they want to transfer
and they don't want to be there, you know, are
(25:05):
they not loyal? But it's just a different world now.
And it's the kids we've gotten have all been extremely mature.
They've been great leaders. They're really focused on what they
want to do. They also have a shorter time so
they're not out screwballing around like, hey, I got I
got a year here. What am I going to do academically?
And how am I going to set myself up? And
what am I gonna do football wise? To make sure
(25:27):
that I have an opportunity to play after this And
it's I love the maturity of the kids and the
kids we've gotten have been fantastic and we're really excited
about it. I don't think you make a living, but
I think you still build to the high school kids
and that's where the development comes. But I think with
the NFL background we have, it's it's just like the
agency supplementary draft, you know, and what do we have?
(25:49):
You know, if we have a whole, can we fill
it here? Is there a corner out there or is
there a wide out out there? Is whatever that we
can fill? Because we really like the high school kid,
but we don't know if he's gonna be able to
play right away. But we know this kid can play
right away because he has played right away. You've actually
seen it demonstrated. So I think you good at both,
you know, and you have to be evolved. And I
think the teams that are doing well with the trans
for reportal kids are the guys that, you know, we
(26:11):
do extensive homework. You know, I call the head coach.
You know, we have a great running back right now,
Britain Brown from Duke. I called David Cutt, and I
know cut really well. We cut gave me the whole
load and loved them and what a great kid. And
this is a good fit. And you know, so there's
a lot of times I think, really your due diligence
and how you do your homework, you make no bones
(26:31):
about like what are we about? Like if you're coming
here and you're going to grad school, it's it's hard
and you gotta go to work and you gotta want
to get a grad degree, like you're not coming here
to major ineligibility. But then we get kids that don't
want to major knowledgability. They really care about the degree.
So then I don't have to worry about them off
the field and in their maturity to them. So I
we love the Trends reportal and we really embraced it.
(26:54):
What's harder recruiting high school kids and projecting if they
can work at college or drafting college kids and projecting
if they work in the pros? I don't know. I
don't know which one's harder, but I think they're both
extremely hard. Um, because the track record will tell you that.
(27:17):
You know, you look at what is it fifty percent
of first round draft picks don't make it, you know,
don't make it? Yeah, don't make it? You know. And
I always said that they have oodles of money and
how do you figure that out? But I think being
able to project what people are like the big thing
with the NFL when they get money. You know, for
some guys, their goal is I want to make it
(27:38):
to the NFL. You did, now what you know? What
do you do with that? And um, in the same
thing at the college level, I think I saw a
thing that half of the five star quarterbacks have transferred
in the last five years. Anybody that was a five star,
you know, how many are on their second or third
schools because the first school they pick didn't pan out,
so um, I think the hit rate is probably the same,
(28:00):
But it's it's the million dollar question, and who's the
best at evaluating. I think where you're really good is
do you know and not get caught up on what
people think on the outside, but what do you know
what fits on your team and how that works? And
the guys that are the best at it don't really
pay attention to the outside things and just worry about
(28:20):
is this guy a good fit for the type of
system we run? And will it be a good fit
in our locker room, will be a good fit in
our school, will it be a good fit in our
pro organization? Whichever one it is? And I think the
fit part and the people that can project the fit
are the best at it. You know, it's interesting. I
have a theory and I'll throw my theory that concerns me.
(28:42):
I grew up as a Pac twelve football fan. I
would call it sort of the health and wellness or
green plate concern out West is that the economy and
silicon value is so great it has spread to California,
Laws Angels, Salt Lake, Portland, Eugene, Seattle, and Boulder and
(29:07):
these places. Now home prices are doubling. And what happens
when people make money, They eat better, they vacation more.
And I said this. About seven eight years ago, I
started noticing West Coast high school kids offensive lineman shrink
and I said, God, these college coaches, these kids are
(29:29):
two hundred and sixty eight pounds. You have to project
how they play at three oh five. A southern kid,
a high school kid in the South or Midwest or Houston,
he's eight and you only have to project if he
adds ten pounds. And I said, are we too healthy?
Out West? Mom goes vegan, Dad supports mom. The plates
are greener, the kid gets smaller. Now this just maybe horseshit,
(29:53):
But I follow recruiting my whole life ship. I've been
I've been getting magazine since I was like eighteen, and
it does I do ask my friends. I said, why
are the offensive lineman like two sixty eight to two
seventy two out here? Is my theory nonsense or is
there something? Is there a challenge out there that you
have to project on size and there are just fewer
(30:16):
big kids out here? There's something to it, I think,
I mean, maybe we can study it. We can get
an economist for freakonomics to look at that. I know
there's a when you look at just from a if
you study it from an analytics standpoint, the dearth of
defensive linemen come from the southeast, you know, and there's
a bunch of them, you know. And it's when you
(30:38):
look at per capita in high schools and it's you know, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama.
There there. That's just the sheer numbers, you know, and
that's part of what you deal with. But there's also
been some really good players on the West Coast. I
don't think it's ever a black and white where it's
all this For all that, I think there's there's something
in there. You know. That part of that is if
(31:00):
that is an issue, then what are you doing nutritionally
to supplement that? So if you're saying, we're projecting this
kid from two hundred sixty five pound kid to being
a three hundred five pound kid, and what's your nutrition
program like at your school, and is that a feasible
thing for those kids to do? You know? And I
think they all come in all shapes and sizes and
where you find him and how you find them. You know,
(31:20):
you look at Penney Sewell, who's who's a West Coast guy?
You know, when is the first guy off the board.
And then you look at Rashon Slater, who wasn't really
a highly recruited kid out of high school, and he's
the second one off the board. You know, when I
was in Philadelphia in our first year, we drafted Lane Johnson.
He was a quarterback in high school. He went to
junior college quarterback and then was it tight and then
went to Oklahoma is a tight end. Then he played
(31:42):
some defense and he's an All Pro offensive tackle. Now
Cam Akers is a running back for the Rams. And
I was telling less sneed I said, the fact that
he quarterbacked in high school. He didn't have five thousand
carries in high school like as Zeke Elliot or sae
Quon Barkley. So he's not as beat up up. He's
got a longer tarmac, no question, and that developmental piece. Um.
(32:05):
You know, the other tackle we had when I was
in Philadelphia, Jason Peters was a tight end college. You know,
he's potentially a Hall of Fame offensive tackle. That was
a tight end that was an undrafted free agent that
Jim mcnaale found, I think, and they signed him and
developed him and he turned into one of the best
tackles to ever play. So they they come from all over.
I just think you need to search long and hard.
(32:27):
For us, we're looking at frames all the time and
what can the what can the body hold? You know?
I think sometimes that's an issue where the kid is
what you get it to sixty? Is he four years
later he's gonna be two sixty, or is what you
get it to sixty gonna be um, you know, be
three hundred. You know, kurk Ferenz is known for He's
got a great reputation in college football for finding those
(32:48):
two and twenty pound guys somewhere in Iowa and then
all of a sudden they become a first round draft
because they're three hundred pounds. You know, who can where
is it? But that person had to have a frame
that could put that much weight on. So I think
that's it's really how you look at it and develop it.
It's a key component to what you're looking at. But
I think you're right there are there is something too
(33:08):
And I know just from the analytics part of it.
Where most of the defensive lineman coming. Most defensive linemen
are coming from the southeast. Yeah. I talked to Urban
Meyer once he was working at Fox and I said,
we were talking about USC and I think he considered it,
and you know, I told him my theory about the
green plates and he said, he said, there, he goes,
(33:30):
You know, we didn't go west very often for a
defensive lineman at Ohio State. He goes, we loved their quarterbacks,
receivers and corners, so he thought it was interesting. But
I remember him saying, he goes, I would probably recruit
Texas pretty hard if I was a West coast I mean,
you did it. You've recruited Texas very well. At Oregon,
I recall, yeah, we kind of we knew where to
(33:52):
go and where to hit. Texas is just such a
good state, and they're so well coached, and they have
year round football. So one of the things I think
people really enjoyed about from a recruiting standpoint, what if
you recruited Texas is that you went there in the
spring and you actually watched them practice football. You know,
at some in some states in this country, they don't
play football in the springtime, so you never get a
(34:13):
chance to you're projecting. You know what was the kid like, Well,
he looked really good walking down the hall. You know,
that was the only evaluation you could get on the
kid during the spring recruiting period. But I would argue,
if you're here on the West Coast, there's eighty percent
of our roster and we were at Organ was from California,
you know, so you really got to make sure you
take care of the home base. Now, we would always
(34:35):
you can submit your class, but you got to have
a kind of a home recruiting base and know where
that most of your players are coming from. I used
to always argue the quality of life coaching college is
much higher than it is at the NFL level. But
now you have to recruit year round. I could make
an argument now the NFL coaches have a little bit
of an offseason. You guys, don't are you a fan
(34:57):
of this dual signing period, because I think it hurts
the quality of life for you guys. It's not the
quality of life, but it's I think ninety percent of
the kids sign in December, and the kids who don't,
I think if you told them they had to sign
in December, and then you left the window open, like,
if you don't want to sign in December, you don't
have to, but we're not having a second signing date.
Like I I go back to h it was a
(35:20):
few good men. Why the two orders? That's what they
said all the time in the movie. Why the two orders?
Why the two signing dates? There's one signing date, Just
sign it and if they don't sign, just leave it
open from December and signing date to close it in
February and the month of January it's open. If they
want to sign, they can sign. But why to have
second signing date? I don't I don't know. I think
(35:40):
you know, sometimes there's unintended consequences. But when you look
at the numbers and they've gone up and up every year,
when they when they spent the first signing date, I
think it was ninety percent of the kids signed it
the first signing date this year and it was during
COVID and no one could take official visits and still
didn't affect them. They committed and signed and we're ready
to go. So I hope at one time that's one
thing that can change, because most people, if you're signing
(36:04):
nine kids in December, when you're going back out on
the road in January, you're looking at underclassman or you're
saving spots for transfers. So the coaches have already moved
forward on it. I think it's really hopefully it's just
an administrative thing. At some point in time, they'll they'll
take that part away, the second one away an NFL
college career. The greatest football coach player you've ever coached,
(36:27):
the single greatest player you've ever coached. That's a great question.
I would say, you know, from a talent standpoint, Jason
Peters at in Philadelphia was as good at tackle at
that's ever played the game. Personal favre was Darren Sprowles.
You know he was. You meet Darren Sprowls and you're
like wow, like that's an NFL player, and then watch
(36:50):
him for five minutes in practice Colin and you're like wow,
like that's what's so special. We were in a walkthrough.
He took a handoff and it was Ota rules and
you can't do anything. There's so many rules in the
off season. What you can do, I can't do when
he's sprinted, and I was like, Baron, it's it's walks through.
You can't sprint. And he was like, I haven't lasted
(37:10):
this long in the NFL by not sprinting, So I'm
a sprint I said, all right, everybody else walked there
AND's run full speed and and and everybody just you
just watched him. I don't know anybody that's ever practiced
as hard as he's ever practiced. And when you look
at his career, he got played thirteen years in the
National Football League, and it's he's as tough as they come,
(37:31):
he's as gracious as they come, he's as competitive as
they come, and he could do it all. He could return,
he could carry the football, he could catch the ball
coming out of the backfield, and he was just he
was just an amazing guy to be around on a
daily basis. But you know, those two guys kind of
jump out just because of you know, obviously he'sn't just
(37:52):
because of how athletic a guy that that size, and
I mean, he's really a Hall of Fame type tackle,
you know, to be around some I remember and moved
the first time and I was like, holy smokes, is
I can't believe how athletic this guy is, you know,
And there was and it's there was a ton of others,
you know, coaching Marcus. You know, a good guy who
won the Heisman Trophy and Marcus Mariota and what an
(38:13):
amazing athlete. And how quick he processed things, you know,
the ability to run, how accuracy was his ability to
process things. You know, he was a special player. There
was There was a bunch of really good players that
I had an opportunity to coach. Chip. It's great seeing
you enjoy your bike rides, your lovely bride. You got
a great life. I'm rooting for you, and I appreciate
(38:35):
this man. All right, buddy, sorry, all right. You know what, man,
Chip Kelly is one of those guys that when you
listen to him, very pragmatic, super smart. The Philadelphia situation
was crazy. He goes ten and six, ten and six
with quarterbacks who are kind of like at the end
(38:55):
of their career or have been replaced somewhere in Philadelphia
hated him. Why Philadelphia is a market about tradition. He's contrarian.
He didn't do it the way they'd seen it in Philadelphia,
it should be noted, has fired every coach. Andy Reid
had the best winning percentage at fifty eight. Rich co
(39:16):
tite the worst at fifty four and they all got fired.
When you get hired to coach the Eagles, Nick Sirianni,
good luck. You will be out in two years three Max.
And with that we bring in my buddy Chad Milman,
chief content officer, Action Network, which just sold this past
week for two hundred and forty million dollars, which is
a lot of money. According to my sources, that is
(39:38):
a shit ton of money. So Millman, you're not a
big spender guy. I don't see you as a lambo
guy or a third home guy or a private jet guy.
Did you go out and buy something though? You know,
it's funny. I like to think of it as not
two hundred and forty million dollars, but a quarter of
(40:00):
a billion dollars, just because you know, it sounds better
and it's funny. You're right, I am not a big
spender at all. I live in central Connecticut, in West Herford,
you know, in the same town you used to live
before you high tailed it out for the West Coast.
And like, as this was happening, of course, we think about,
(40:26):
you know, we're gonna come into some cash. What do
we want to do with it? My wife and I.
She's from New York. We lived in the city for
a long time. We thought we do we get into
problement in the city, and at the end of the day,
we haven't done anything, and we're not planning on doing anything.
The truth is, all of a sudden, life becomes practical again,
(40:49):
and we have a son going to college, and we
have another sun starting high school. And it sounds so
boring to say, but we don't know where the funk
we're going to live in four years. So I'm not
buying a place in the city. I'm not buying a
place in the beach if I'm not going to want
to live near either of those things, because I might
want to move into your beach house. I might want
to move into your backyard in four years. So for now,
(41:12):
we're still using gift cards when we order from a
vert our best restaurant in West Herford. Well, I think
I told you this in the phone the other day.
I've made a good living for a long time. It's
never been about what I can buy. It's about what
I don't have to do anymore, which is, if I
wanted to, I could have a yard guy three times
a week. I could have somebody come in four days
a wait and clean the house. I've found that money
(41:34):
isn't about what you buy, It's about what you don't
have to do anymore. You can just concentrate in your
family and your business. It's an efficiency changer. It's interesting
you say it like that, and obviously it's a weird
thing to talk about because you're so lucky to be
in this position to have an exit like this. And
(42:00):
I'm lucky to have been at the business since the beginning,
you know, leaving ESPN to help launch it and so
to accumulate value in the business, right, And so we
think a lot about it and what it would mean
to us and all those kinds of things. And I'm
gonna put it in perspective in two different ways, because
we were having this conversation with friends the other day.
(42:20):
It really just means, and it sounds obnoxious to say this,
it just means, if we're going to go on vacation,
I'm less stressed about where we're staying and what we're
spending on vacation, which is, by the way, is a massive,
massive luxury to have in life. And even when I
(42:42):
was having a I was not sort of lucky enough
to be getting some kind of windfall from this and
making a very nice salary, you would still think about it. Right.
We look at houses to rent, We look at hotels,
and I think, can I stay there with points? So
I want to spend that much in the house. If
I stayed two blocks further from the beach, it's you know,
a couple gred of lass. I go to this town,
(43:03):
it's less than this town. That kind of thing. The
other thing that's really interesting that you say, just thinking
about the business. We knew this deal was coming, and
it's been going on for a couple of months, and
we were fortunate enough as a business that there was
a process where there were a lot of people involved
who were interested in acquiring the business, and when it
(43:23):
came down to it, in the company that bought us
better collective. This past weekend, we knew the deal was closing,
and I kind of wondered when I woke up on
Monday morning, how was I going to feel. I left
ESPN in September of twenty seventeen, that's three and a
half years ago. Every day since that day, I have
been thinking about how are we positioning this business for
(43:47):
an exit, What does the landscape look like, what does
the competition look like? What do we need to be
doing to put ourselves in a position to be attractive.
Whether it's a media company, an operator, a company like
Better Collective that is an affiliate business based in up
that bought us, whatever the case may be, who's doing what,
where are the deals happening? Who do we need to
be talking to? How am I, as an executive at
(44:08):
the company thinking strategically about this and communicating that with
our CEO, our CEO or I had a finance whoever
it was, and when that was ending, I wondered, when
I wake up on Monday morning, am I going to
think I want out? I don't want to do this anymore.
My energy is spent. And what I found was I
(44:29):
woke up on Monday morning and was incredibly energized and
incredibly motivated because to your point about the personal finance,
but also for the business. I was unburdened from having
to think about some of those things. And when I
thought strategically, I could only I only had to think
about how am I going to grow this business for
this new company that owns us that and I've derisked
(44:51):
a lot of the urgency about selling the business. Yeah,
I mean, listen, you're either a competitive person or or not.
I mean, part of me leaving ESPN is I won
I make four times as much. I'm off at noon,
I live in a better city. My ratings are through
the roof. That's part of it that when you leave
a company, part of it is competing. You're a competitive person.
(45:12):
I'm a competitive person. So congrats on a winning Now,
this is interesting. The whole Aaron Rodgers thing is off
the board for a lot of people. As of right now.
Does the Action Network have him staying or leaving Green Bay?
We're only judging it based on what we are seeing
(45:33):
in the markets. And in the markets you are seeing
the Broncos that went from seventy to one to twelve
to one in some places, based on the reports that
we're out there now, you're right, and a lot of
places you can't bet on the Packers. You can't bet
on their season win totals. This is fascinating because as
(45:57):
far as I can tell, the Packers have all the
ridge right. They don't have to trade him. They can
keep a guy who's one of the most talented quarterbacks
in NFL history and have him play for them because
he's under contract. And the truth is whoever they trade
him to, the value is going to be in future value.
(46:18):
So if they trade him to the Broncos, the Broncos
are going to give the Packers first round picks. But
those first round picks are going to be based on
how well the Broncos performed with Aaron Rodgers as their quarterback.
They could win the Super Bowl and then all of
a sudden, the first round pick is the thirty second
pick in the first round. So it's very interesting how
(46:40):
any team and how the Packers could even try to
negotiate what a trade looks like. One other thing here,
and I was talking to my kid about this today.
If you look back, you would have thought when Aaron
Rodgers won the Super Bowl in twenty ten, I think
it was that he was going to go on a stretch.
He's such a pinpoint, precise passer, he's so good in
the pocket, he's so smart. It turns out he may
(47:03):
have been lucky to win that because in the end,
he didn't have a very good head coach for the
majority of his career. His team did not support him
with offensive weapons. He is very lucky to have gotten
that one, let alone thinking oh he should have gotten
more and maybe losing it NFC title games. He's just
lucky to have gotten a title. Yeah, you know it's
(47:24):
funny if he goes to Denver. If I was Green Bay,
I would want a receiver because my takeaway is picks
are fine, but in the end, Jordan Love needs more,
ammo or I'm going to look horrific in this deal.
And you don't want to I said it today on
the air. You don't want to have a Carmelo to
the next deal where Denver is forced to trade him
(47:45):
to the one team he'll go to. And then by
the time Mello gets there, he's a chandelier in a
house that has no furniture. And it's like, if Aaron
demands West Coast, that absolutely desentivizes that advice is green
Bay to give anything away. Aaron should be open to Miami,
open to the giants. This whole thing about Jeopardy actress
(48:09):
moved west that doesn't help Aaron Rodgers in my opinion whatsoever. No,
do you know what's interesting? And you mentioned the assets
when Deshaun Watson before the reports came out about the
sexual harassment and his market Uh, you know, disinerated, disappeared, incinerated, disappeared,
(48:33):
whatever the word is that, I'm disintegrated. Disintegrated, that is
the word. Words are not my thing. Thank you for that.
You're not money. Money and cash is your thing. I
completely lost it when when that was happening, someone asked
me what would you trade from the Chicago Bears for
(48:56):
Deshaun Watson. I thought to myself, I would trade Khalil
Mack and I would trade my next eight first round
draft picks, because at the end of the day, an
all star quarterback who can be generational as Deshaun Watson
has proven to be, is worth all of that because
(49:16):
that's a sure thing you've got it. Every other pick
you get you don't know what you're getting. So it really,
to me, it does come down to the assets that
the Packers could get. Now the draft is over. I
thought the Chargers really solved their offensive line issues. I
thought the Browns in the offseasons solved their secondary issues
about Kansas City, rebuilt their offensive line. I thought Miami
(49:37):
had the best pure draft first five picks could all
start any move. I mean, god, I don't look at
the Chargers the same today as I did two months ago.
Did the draft change any of the odds in your opinion?
It did change it for In my opinion, it changed
it for the Chargers because I think, like I already
(50:02):
had them to win the Super Bowl. I had him
at like I can't remember, fifty to one maybe, But
if you look at the board, it's all the same teams.
The Browns moved up a little bit. The Browns were
in the twenty to one range. Now they're in the
(50:24):
sixteen to one range. I mentioned to the Broncos. The
Broncos have moved up tremendously. They were at seventy to
one now they're at twenty two to one. But the
rest of them, you know, I'm looking at the Chargers
are at about thirty two to one, so there's a
little bit of movement there. The Dolphins are about thirty
to one. That hasn't been that big of a move
(50:44):
because there was already a lot of attention being paid
to them. There hasn't been massive movement outside of what
you were talking about for the Broncos because of Aaron Rodgers.
When you look at the draft and free agency and
coach generally does the market change? What is the theory
(51:04):
on I'm gonna wait for camp I'm gonna wait for
the exhibition season. How do I get the best number
on a future? Does it come now or later? You
kind of missed it. It really happens it, I mean, look,
it just does. It's now from the past, say two
months before free agency is when you really want to
(51:27):
start thinking about this, When you want to start playing
the market, When you want to start looking at rosters,
looking at openings, looking who's going to be a free agent.
Where will a big move happen? Could there be a
quarterback type move with like Tom Brady and Tampa Bay.
The next best time will be once the season begins
(51:49):
and you've started seeing some kind of potential on the
field with certain teams. Maybe they maybe the Bengals came
out and lost their opening game, but they were playing
the Chiefs and they didn't get blown out by the Chiefs.
They played pretty well. Those first four weeks for an
(52:11):
NFL season are when so many decisions get made and
you start to learn so much about a team. If
you look back over the years, take the Falcons for example.
The Falcons, over the years, we'd always start off really hot,
and they'd be six and oh seven or no, you know,
seven and one, and then they'd fade in the second
(52:31):
half of the year, but they'd still be a playoff
team by the time they get to the playoffs. You
could look back at their games and say, Okay, earlier
in the year they beat three or four teams that
high expectations but turned out to be not very good.
Then they struggled against some teams that people had low expectations,
turned out to be very good, and we started to
see who they really were. You get this transitive property
(52:52):
feeling about how teams are playing. So if you can
watch a lot of games during the year and through
that first four weeks to get a sense of who's
undervalued by how they do on the field, if they
struggled or if they played good teams really well, and
look at their schedule and map that out, and you've
talked about this, then you can find some value. But
(53:12):
this range between draft and the start of the season,
you're not going to get much. By the way, we
know Denver's odds go up if Aaron goes there, what
would happen to Green Bay's win total if he leaves
where is it at now, It's about ten and a half.
Where would it go with Jordan Love? Oh gosh, I
can't look Aaron Rodgers all world quarterback MVP. This team's
(53:37):
winning what thirteen games? Fourteen games a year? That's why
you can expect, especially the past two seasons. Obviously, what
do you know about Jordan Love? And what do you
know about the rest of this team other than Aaron Rodgers.
If Jordan Love is the quarterback, I'm taking this thing
down to eight minimum. Chad Millman, he just sold us company.
(54:01):
He's humble, but he literally right now could turn off
his Internet provider and never talk to America again and
swim in Christall. It's an amazing thing. Yes, it's so true.
It's obnoxious, but I could not be happier for you. Honestly,
(54:22):
thank you. You have been tremendously supportive. I will say
this both at ESPN and then when I was thinking
about making this move to leave ESPN, you were unbelievably
supportive and all in on taking as big a risk
as possible. And I appreciate the support and the enthusiasm.
You know you're rich when you could have a really
(54:44):
bad meth habit and still be rich ten years later.
That's where Millman's at. I'm gonna, you know what, I'm
just gonna go try it and see what happens. See
your buddy, see your brother. I'll talk to you later. We,
of course, are hoping. Chad Millman never ever has a
(55:04):
meth habit. I just suggested he could overcome it financially.
Of course, we would never ever hope that happens. We
are good people here. Follow us at The Volume sports
on Twitter, Instagram, rate review, subscribe. Thanks so much, we're
having fun here. Join us The Volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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