May 8, 2021 • 28 mins
This is Prime Cuts! (5/3-5/7) The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. It was a big week, first Colin lets you know where he thinks Aaron Rodgers should end up (1:00) and why he refuses to give NFL Draft grades (3:00). UCLA Head Coach Chip Kelly joins the show, tells us the greatest player he ever coached, and the one thing Nick Saban does that separates him from the rest of college football (5:00). Colts GM Chris Ballard comes on and talks about the night he found out Andrew Luck was retiring, and why he thinks Carson Wentz will return to his MVP form in Indy (13:30) Legendary GM Bill Polian gives us the most important thing he looks for in a football player (19:00) and Cowboys writer Matt Mosley tells us exactly what he didn't like about the Dallas draft (24:45).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. This is prime cuts, the best of the
Calling Coward podcast, And for God's sakes, do you know
how good you have to be to be the best
(00:21):
of my podcast? What a standard? This is a big week.
Legendary former NFL GM Bill Polian gives us the most
important thing he looks for in a player. Cowboys writer
Matt Moseley was awesome. He tells you what he didn't
like about the Cowboys draft, and there was a lot.
Colt CM Chris Boaldard comes on and talks why he
(00:43):
believes Carson Wentz will return to that MVP level and
UCLA head coach Chip Kelly unique perspective on the game,
NFL and college. But first, my top takes of the week.
So Terry Bradshaw got some Twitter heat because he came
on my show The Herd and he said, I wouldn't
(01:06):
coddle Aaron Rodgers. I wouldn't baby him. I just forced
him to play, which, by the way, Green Bay can
do and it may be the best remedy for at
least one year because the salary cap dead money hit
would be so punitive if they moved him. The reality
here is Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a no trade clause.
(01:28):
They can send him largely wherever they want. To me,
the place that makes a lot of sense isn't Denver.
It's New York. The Giants have two first round picks
next year, two third round picks, and two fourth round picks.
So Green Bay could get a first, a third, and
a fourth just next year and it wouldn't damage the
(01:49):
Giants rebuild, and it would absolutely help the Packers rebuild.
I'm more of a rip the band aid off guy
to me. I'd rather just move on fast. But it
doesn't necessarily make great sense for the Packers and it
doesn't make great sense for the Giants. I think you
(02:10):
can make this move at the trading deadline in October
next year. You don't have to make it now, and
you don't have to make it before the season, nor
do you have to wait until after the season. Let's
see if Daniel Jones can play. If he starts off
six and one, eliminates the turnovers. He's young, he's cheap,
he's athletic, and he's winning. So green Bay moves off
(02:33):
Aaron would have their own first and two other firsts.
The Packers historically pretty good at drafting and developing That
also gives Jordan Love another six seven eight weeks Ota
exhibition season camp, seven eight weeks behind Aaron Rodgers. If
Jordan Loves not quite ready, give him six or seven
(02:56):
weeks watching Aaron play for the Packers. I don't give
grades on the draft, and my feeling on this has
always been I don't consider the draft in itself gradable.
I'm wrong enough. I think when something can be proven
wrong over and over and over and over again, then
(03:16):
I stop believing in it. If my Blazing five was
wrong under fifty percent every year, I'd stop doing it.
But like fourteen of the last fifteen years, it's been
over five hundred, about fifty three to fifty six percent,
So I keep doing it. The grading system is mostly nonsense.
What I do, and I'll do this on Fox Sports
(03:37):
One and Fox Sports Radio, is that I'll take your
top three free agent moves and combine it with your
top two or three picks, and that gives you a
much better hit rate. Who really had a great draft,
but trying to guess your fourth, fifth, six, seventh round picks,
nobody knows. I mean, take New England, Yeah, I think
(03:58):
Mac Jones. It's going to take a couple of games
against Josh Allen and you're gonna realize you don't have
a twenty twenty one athlete at quarterback. So if he
doesn't work, how good of a draft is it? Same
with Chicago justin fields. If he doesn't hit. I think
he will with Matt Naggie. But if he doesn't, how
can you give that draft an A plus? Everybody's like
Bears a plus. You don't know, you won't know for
(04:19):
two years. Kansas City's not getting viewed as a great draft,
but they literally rebuilt their offensive line with two elite
players on the left side well for Andy Reid and
Patrick Mahomes. That will have a significantly greater impact than
probably any drafted player over the weekend. So if you
(04:41):
take the rebuild of the offensive line for the Chiefs
and combine it with their first two three picks, boom
is a great offseason for Kansas City. All right, let's
bring on Chip Kelly, UCLA head coach. Big year for him.
It's almost like you were before your time in the NFL.
Do you look at some of the poll nation kind
(05:04):
of of college football into the NFL now and think,
you know, maybe I was about eight years ahead of it.
You know, if and I've said this before, but if
you weren't in the room with Amos, Alonzo Stag and
Newt Rockne when they invented this game, then you stole
it from somebody else. You know. So Dutch Myers, who
was the head coach at TCU in the fifties, was
(05:25):
running empty no backs. You know, when no one talks
about it. You know, everybody talks about when we got
to Oregon and we're running up tempo. And know Huw
sam Weish was doing that in the NFL with the
Cincinnati Angles, you know, and and Marv Levy was doing
it with the Buffalo Bills in the ke gun, you know.
So it's it's cyclical. I think it's just trying to
figure out what applies the game itself. I think that
(05:48):
at the next level has turned into more of a
spread out game because people have realized the athletes are
so good, we better get them in space. You know,
the days of Buddy Ryan was ahead his game because
he ran the forty six defense. Everybody was in two
back and you couldn't run the ball. You know, when
they had those monsters up front, was singletary behind them
(06:08):
and they played press man on your two receivers and
you couldn't get off. So how do you combat those
defenses that are all in the box because we got
to spread people out, And that's where I think the
college spread out game has kind of moved to the
professional level. And there are some guys, you know, Andy
Reid's a great example. You know, you look what Sean
Payton's doing with two quarterbacks and he's got a Hall
of Fame quarterback and Drew Brees and he takes out
(06:29):
of the game sometimes so Taysom Hill can play. You know,
it's I think everybody's still evolving and that's the fun.
But I think there's a lot of similarities. It used
to be really different where college I think ten twelve
years ago was one way. In the NFL was different.
But I really think there's a lot of there's a
lot of there's a lot of carry over from both
now when you sped the tempo up collegiately. I remember
(06:51):
Nick Saban one time told me privately, he said, I
don't I think I can say it now. We were
up in Bristol and he said, you know, my concern
about this. He goes the officials, the game is so fast.
He goes in the Auburn game, and he didn't want
to say this because Auburn beat him. He goes, there
were eleven miss calls on both sides. He goes, though
the officials were just not in place. He goes, the
(07:13):
athletes will figure out the speed, so will the coaches.
I'm not sure fifty nine year old officials can. When
you were speeding up the tempo, and there were guys
like Saban that said, I'm not sure football is meant
to be played this fast. Did you see that as
just kind of proprietary I'm protecting my program or were
there concerns out there that were legit? Now I think
(07:36):
it was proprietary. You know. The two biggest and there's
two great coaches at the time were Nick Saban and
Brett Dilema. But look at what they ran offensively, you know,
and I would in the same way, like, well, why
can't we play fast because I think you should play fast. Well,
we played fast as an equalizer, So how do we
tire out an see defensive alignment because we're not going
to be able to line up one on one and
(07:57):
knock him off the ball. So everybody comes with it
with a little bit jaded And you've got to give
Nick credit. And that's why he may be the greatest
ever do this game, is he has evolved and now
he does it all. You know, the things he didn't
like he's doing. You know, he was a guy didn't
like RPOs. They may be the best in the country
at RPOs, you know, And so when you look at it,
(08:18):
that's what makes him such a great coach because he's
constantly evolving. But I think a lot of that when
you're worried. You know, we all want, if you want
to win an argument, how do I get as much
fodder on one side to the other. You know, let's
let's play to the referees. We can't get the referees
on our side, and they'll they'll make the game slow
down a little bit. But Nick's always looking for an
advantage and he's really done. You look at what they've
(08:38):
done and civil and where they are. You know, you
could argue that their wide receiver, you now, which ten
years ago you wouldn't have said that, But now you
look at the white outs that they've turned out in
the last couple of years and you're like, holy smokes.
But they're doing such a good job with it because
I think he's evolved with it. But yeah, I can
see him saying that because at that time, it was
a run the ball guy, and let's play great defense.
(08:59):
Now it's it's almost you've got to get a stop
or two in each half and then see if if
you can continue rolling on offense, you know, then you're
good to go, you know. And that's really what the
game has turned into. The reason I think Saban's the
best college coach I've ever seen is not simply because
of winning, but what hurt Mac Brown, Bobby Bowden, Pete
(09:23):
Carroll and Urban and Florida that it's transient at the
coaching level. That Pete kept losing coordinator after coordinator, and
I remember him telling me once in his office, I'm
recruiting coaches as often as I'm recruiting defensive ends. Saban
has lost really high in assistance and just keeps reloading.
(09:46):
I find that it fascinating. Um, I don't maybe he's
so connected. I mean, just take me to that. The
difficulty in losing coaches and having to find good ones
that are often better than the previous one. I mean,
that's I don't think he gets enough credit for you know,
and I think he developed the analysts off the role,
(10:07):
off the field role um that no one really had,
and then turned it into a real almost like a
landing spot. You know, when you look at that, just
who's been an analyst at at Alabama, it's it's a
who's who. It's it's Sark, it's Mike Locksley, it's Butch Jones,
it's Mike Stoops at The list goes on and on.
(10:29):
So he also has a bullpen of guys so that
when a guy leaves, he may have the guy already
on staff. So the transition for him is the offense
and defense and terminology doesn't change. He's not bringing in
a new guy that brings in his offense or his defense.
He's still running it the way he wants to run it. Um.
He did it with Kith Lane, started off as as
an analyst, and then he promoted Lane when he lost guys.
(10:51):
So he's got a unique system. And I think that
that unlike anybody else. Um, you know, we only four analysts,
and they're they're low paying jobs and they're all real
level jobs. You know, we don't have what they have.
But it's he set that up because I think he
was he was really conscious of that, is that you're
gonna lose coaches, So what do I do to come
back that? You know, he's he's got an answer for
everything that I think you can look at and say, hey,
(11:14):
this is what we The next big hurdle is gonna
be Laart how do I handle that? And I think
you hit it? Hit it right on? Is his ability
to replace coaches has been been phenomenal, you know, and
almost like the next guy comes in is better than
the guy that left, and the guy that left was
really good. The single greatest player you've ever coached, that's
a great question, I would say. You know, from a
(11:35):
talent standpoint, Jason Peters at in Philadelphia was as good
at tackle at that's ever played the game. Um personal
fai was Darren Sprowles, you know, he was it. You
meet Darren Sprowls and you're like wow, like that's an
NFL player, and then watch him for five minutes in
practice Colin and you're like wow, like that's what's so special.
(11:58):
We were in a walkthrough. He took a handoff and
it was Ota rules and you can't do anything. There's
so many rules in the off season. What you can do,
I can't do when he's sprinted. And I was like, Baron,
it's it's walk through, you can't sprint. And he was like,
I haven't lasted this long in the NFL by not sprinting,
So I'm a sprint I said, all right, everybody else
walked there and run full speed, and and just and
(12:21):
everybody just you just watched him. I don't know anybody
that's ever practiced as hard as he's ever practiced. And
when you look at his career, got played thirteen years
in the National Football League, and it's he's as tough
as they come, he's as gracious as they come, he's
as competitive as they come. And he could do it all.
He could return, he could carry the football, he could
(12:42):
catch them all coming out of the backfield, and he
was just he was just an amazing guy to be
around on a daily basis. But you know, those two
guys kind of jump out just because of you know,
obviously he'sn just because of how athletic a guy at
that size, and I mean he's really a Hall of
Fame type tackle. You know, to be around someone I
remember and moved the first time and I was like,
(13:04):
holy smokes, is I can't believe how athletic this guy is,
you know, And there was and it's there was a
ton of others, you know, coach and Marcus, you know,
a good guy won the Heisman Trophy and Marcus Mariota
and what an amazing athlete. And how quick he processed things,
you know, the ability to run, how accuracy was his
ability to process things. You know, he was a special player.
(13:25):
There was There was a bunch of really good players
that I had an opportunity to coach with that we
bring in. Chris Ballard used to work for the Bears
as their director of pro scouting, then hooked up with
Andy Reid in Kansas City. He was the director of
their football operations and is now the very successful general
manager of the Indianapolis Colts. Carson Wentz to me, has
(13:51):
more of an Andrew luck personality than a Peyton Manning personality,
or a certainly more than a Philip Rivers personality. That's
what it looked. That's what it feels like to me,
a little understated, not as verbal, bright kid. What did
you know about his personality before you got him in
the room. Well, I mean, look I've got a guy
(14:14):
that coached him for two years when was a part
of the process of drafting him, so that that was
a real advantage. And then his college coach was Craig
Bowle who's now at University of Wyoming, who recruited me
to University of Wisconsin, so I had an inside there
into who he was. And then North Dakota State also,
(14:34):
you know, still had some coaches there that were connected
with But at the end of the day, Frank and
I just have a lot of trust and Frank, I mean,
this guy, our head coach, is outstanding Colin. I mean,
he gets it. He played in the league for fourteen years.
He's brilliant, smart, he's got great emotional intelligence. I mean
(14:55):
I thought that was the one. Like Coachree always thought
had high level emotional intelligence. And I think most great
leaders have high level emotional intelligence. And I think Frank
does too. And he's just got a great way about him. Um,
you know, dealing with the quarterback position, so you know
his insight. And then when you watch the tape, there's
(15:16):
a lot of good tape on Carson Wentz. I mean
I say this all I mean, I've said this a
few times Colin. But quarterbacks like you wish all of
them came into the league and just lit the league
up and never had any struggles. But there's there's a
point when they got to stand on the abyss and
not jump, and you know that's we can't let Carson jump.
(15:41):
And I don't think Frank Willum he didn't play good
last year. I think Carson Carson admits that he didn't
play good last year. I mean I don't and I
think Carson would tell you the same thing that you know,
don't don't put the blame on everybody else. I mean,
we all had our hands in you know what happened,
you know, back in you know, last year in Philly
(16:03):
for whatever reason. You know, he was a part of that.
But it doesn't mean we still can't see the good
and the greatness of what's in him. And we believe
it's in there, and we believe, you know that over
time we'll get him to play at that level again.
For as steady as the Colts have been since you've
been here, you have had two of the toughest moments
(16:27):
in the league as a GM. You have a coach
he backs out. Thank God, you have a great backup plan.
And then Andrew Luck retires and these are like, they
don't happen. This isn't stuff you go to college for.
You don't Andy Reid smart. He can't teach you that
(16:47):
the moment of the Andrew Luck thing that night, did
you sleep? Can I just ask you? Did you sleep
that night? So I cared deeply about Andrew still do,
still very close with him, and like a player's health
and well being long term, it's it's important to us.
(17:11):
It's important to me. I can't like I can't operate. Look,
I look, we're judged by our wins and losses. That
that's that's how we're judged. And but on the flip
side of that, I like I cannot get not be
emotionally tied. That's just who I am. Like, I can't
change who I am. So I was extremely close with
(17:35):
Andrew So I understood, like I understood, Did I did?
I like it? Absolutely not. I got this beautiful quarterback
that is just you know, he's a top two or
three guy in the league. And you know, we're about
there and we think we got a really good, freaking
(17:55):
young team and about to freaking take off, and we
get thrown a curveball. Well, that's just that's life. I'm
explaining it to my children and telling them that, you
know what, nobody cares about the problem. All they care
about is if you try to if you fix it.
That's that's what our league's about. Now. Did I have
(18:18):
some moments where you know, I'll tell you this, cod
I never had a moment where I felt sorry for myself,
and I never had a moment where I let the
organization feel sorry for themselves. We were gonna just keep
moving forward and problem solve and try to fix the problem.
And that's all you can do. I mean, it just
works out. If you just keep working at this and
(18:40):
keep doing things the right way, it's gonna work out.
I mean, that's part of that's. Problems happen, you gotta
fix them, keep moving forward. So let's bring in my
friend Bill Polian GM of the Bills Panthers Cults, super
Bowl champion, ind six time NFL exactly the year Pro
Football Hall of Fame inductee about five years ago, and
(19:02):
somebody I've relied on for years, almost strangely as a mentor,
even though we don't see each other in person, but
I've taken his advice for years. One of the gms
I talked to was not going to draft a player
who's talented out of Iowa. And he went to an
(19:24):
NFC team and he just said, you know, we're not
there's a character risk there and we're not gonna go
how many players because there are some players that are
red flag players. If you really loved a guy's talent,
what was your how did you win Bill Parcels if
I recall, was a guy that he he was going
(19:46):
to clean a locker room up, He wasn't gonna he
didn't have a lot of tolerance for you know, nonsense
and character issues. How did you view that? If you
really had a player, you loved him, and you thought,
you know what, kids make mistakes? I mean, how did
you view that stuff? Well, first and foremost we were
exactly like Bill, because Coach Levy, who taught me about
(20:07):
the business, was exactly like that, and so was Tony Dungeon.
So character was a disqualified Bad character was a disqualifier
for us. So then you go to the next question,
which you correctly pose, is what makes up bad character? Well,
everybody makes mistakes, and so let's use the most obvious one.
(20:32):
Marijuana use. If it's a one or two time thing, okay.
If the guy's been clean awhile and there's no issue,
and we hear from the school and others that there's
no issue, then we're okay. We didn't used to be okay.
That's changed as time has gone on. But if a player,
(20:53):
and I think I know the player you're talking about,
if a player is not a good team, if he's disruptive,
if he does not work hard, if he's not trustworthy,
if he's not a good citizen, if he's a person
who was on the wrong side of the law far
(21:13):
too often, then he's off the board, regardless of talent.
And I often tell the story when I speak to
scouts or others in the football community. My first year
with the Colts, mister Arsay had a good friend who
who was a you know, a really knowledgeable guy. He
(21:34):
followed the draft, so he came along with mister Arthsay
to look at the board on Thursday. In those days,
the draft began Friday, I think, and or Saturday maybe,
and he looked at the dnd list on the on
the sideboard. He said d NDC, which meant through not
draft character and he said, holy back, we'll look at
there's there's a good team up there. What are you
(21:54):
guys doing? And Jim said to him, leave him alone.
They know what they're doing, right, And it turned out
most of the guys that were on that list didn't
do well. Bill, When I mean, it's obviously Jerry Jones
always had a little greater opinion of his draft knowledge,
perhaps than reality. But he's not the only owner who
(22:19):
thinks that. But he's the most notable and most public
in your years. I would guess you would not have
tolerated that or you would have moved on. But was
there ever a moment? I mean, these billionaires aren't dummies
that an owner did say something to you pre draft,
pre free agency, kind of a macro opinion that you
(22:39):
I mean, you know these guys are from thirty thousand
feet that an owner said something to you. You know, Bill,
I'm not going to get involved with your players, but
just I want you to consider this. Is that a
real conversation that ever happened to you and an owner
with between you and an owner? Yeah, absolutely, I'll tell
you the story. It's a great story. Again, the Thursday
before the draft comes in and out that Jim is.
(23:01):
First of all, Jim Ris is very knowledge of energy
and kind of the most knowledgeable owner in terms of
pure football. And he did watch film and he knew
what he was looking at, and during the whole process
he would stay hands off. Occasionally he'd asked me a
question about a player or two, where you know, what's
the story with the injury? Why is this guy? Why
(23:23):
did he not play well? You know, he was going
through the process on his own and uh. And so
we get in the draft room and we explained to
him that we have a defensive end from Colorado that
we like very much and and we have Dallas Clark,
and the choice is going to be between those two.
And if we get there, you know, tomorrow Tony and
(23:45):
I are going to have to you know, we still
have to talk this out. So Tony says, you know,
I really like the defensive end because they can do
this and this and this. And I said, you know,
I kind of leaned toward Dallas Clark because I think
he gives our offense a dimension that it does and
have now he's at once in kind of a every
ten years type of tight end, not unlike the kid
(24:06):
that went to Atlanta. So Jim says, well, okay, you know,
I trust you guys. I know you'll talk it out
and you'll make the right decision you always do. I
trust you completely. So he got up to leave the room,
and he turned around. He said, you know, if it
were me, I take Dallas Clark. And we all broke up,
(24:30):
and Tony said, well, I guess I know we're taken now,
all right, I bring in my buddy, Matt Mosley, longtime
Dallas Cowboys columnist. He's written for the Dallas Morning News,
one of the great American newspapers. You know, they're all
hanging on by a thread, but that's one of the
good ones. ESPN dot Com, Fox Sports dot Com, The
Doomsday Podcast, The Matt Mosley Show, ESPN in Dallas. I
(24:52):
may hire him someday for the volume, but we have
a limited budget and he's expensive as hell. So he's
out there eating chicken fried steak every Saturday night. I
can't afford this guy. He's rolling the big dough. Give
me the rundown of the division. I'd go Washington first,
Philly last, and then I think the Giants and the
Cowboys battled for a wild card spot potentially your thoughts. Well,
I think you're I don't know. This guy is a weirdo.
(25:15):
It seems like when I see him talk the new
coach the Eagles. M So I kind of agree with
you there the quarterback thing, I probably And maybe it's
because I've watched so much Big twelve and I think
that guy is a huge winner. Like he's a guy
that likes to carry people and suddenly he has a weapon,
is a big time weapon with him that he knows
(25:36):
a little bit. So I would say the Eagles, I
have a little higher than you do. I might even
sneak the Eagles up into the two spot. I really would.
And the Giants. Here's the thing. I don't like the
Giants quarterback. They're stuck with this guy seemingly forever and
he everybody's like a Danny Dimes whatever. Yeah, this is
a weird I mean I don't think I think he's third.
(25:58):
I think the Giants or third, and maybe now Redskins
third and the Giants for now. Who does that leave, Oh,
my goodness, the Dallas Cowboys. And what it leaves us
with is a rough another rough division, another division. Now
what the Cowboys are hoping you know every year it's
(26:18):
if nobody gets hurt, we could have we could have greatness,
and then of course all the offensive linemen get hurt
and everything goes to hell. I would just say they
got faster, they got some speed. But I'm telling you, Colin,
I've been I've looked at these things before. When you
are counting on third round in fourth round players being
(26:41):
starters right away, it works for some franchises. It doesn't
always work for these guys. And that's what they were
trying to do. I mean they're they're literally needing and
you know what they're telling you, what Stephen and Jerry
are telling you, is we don't have the money. We
just signed this quarterback. And you do a great job
of talking about contract stuff. You understand all that they
just put a huge amount of money in one position.
(27:04):
And what they said leading into this draft almost like
an NBA team or something. We got to hit on
all of these guys and this is the future of
our defense. So who do they have, Like, who's their
big stud on defense? Thank Lawrence, and then name me
another one. You gotta have it be Parsons. Suddenly you
need your number twelve overall pick to be your second
(27:26):
best defensive player. Who's the leader? Vander Esk stay healthy,
Jaalo Smith is just kind of he's not very good.
Who is your leader? Other than you got Tank Lawrence.
You got everybody kind of either retiring or heading out.
This is a rough So this is and you've said
it before, this is a team that needs to go
out and score thirty five and forty points a game. Yeah. Well,
(27:47):
I mean I think Dak this morning is the best quarterback.
If Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jalen Hurts, and Danny Dimes are at
the good news is you got a super Bowl winning coach,
You have the best arguably best skill old people in
the division. You got the best quarterback. I mean, you know,
I wouldn't have paid Dak forty million, but in the end,
(28:07):
I think he's the best, most reliable quarterback. Your time
of possession goes up. I think Dallas is Washington defensively,
Dallas offensively. You're gonna battle to the end for a
playoff spot. That's all for this week. Got a great
(28:28):
week coming up. Make sure to subscribe and follow us
at The Volume Sports on Twitter and Instagram. The Volume
The volume. This is prime cuts, the best of the
Calling Coward podcast, And for God's sakes, do you know
how good you have to be to be the best
(00:21):
of my podcast? What a standard? This is a big week.
Legendary former NFL GM Bill Polian gives us the most
important thing he looks for in a player. Cowboys writer
Matt Moseley was awesome. He tells you what he didn't
like about the Cowboys draft, and there was a lot.
Colt CM Chris Boaldard comes on and talks why he
(00:43):
believes Carson Wentz will return to that MVP level and
UCLA head coach Chip Kelly unique perspective on the game,
NFL and college. But first, my top takes of the week.
So Terry Bradshaw got some Twitter heat because he came
on my show The Herd and he said, I wouldn't
(01:06):
coddle Aaron Rodgers. I wouldn't baby him. I just forced
him to play, which, by the way, Green Bay can
do and it may be the best remedy for at
least one year because the salary cap dead money hit
would be so punitive if they moved him. The reality
here is Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a no trade clause.
(01:28):
They can send him largely wherever they want. To me,
the place that makes a lot of sense isn't Denver.
It's New York. The Giants have two first round picks
next year, two third round picks, and two fourth round picks.
So Green Bay could get a first, a third, and
a fourth just next year and it wouldn't damage the
(01:49):
Giants rebuild, and it would absolutely help the Packers rebuild.
I'm more of a rip the band aid off guy
to me. I'd rather just move on fast. But it
doesn't necessarily make great sense for the Packers and it
doesn't make great sense for the Giants. I think you
(02:10):
can make this move at the trading deadline in October
next year. You don't have to make it now, and
you don't have to make it before the season, nor
do you have to wait until after the season. Let's
see if Daniel Jones can play. If he starts off
six and one, eliminates the turnovers. He's young, he's cheap,
he's athletic, and he's winning. So green Bay moves off
(02:33):
Aaron would have their own first and two other firsts.
The Packers historically pretty good at drafting and developing That
also gives Jordan Love another six seven eight weeks Ota
exhibition season camp, seven eight weeks behind Aaron Rodgers. If
Jordan Loves not quite ready, give him six or seven
(02:56):
weeks watching Aaron play for the Packers. I don't give
grades on the draft, and my feeling on this has
always been I don't consider the draft in itself gradable.
I'm wrong enough. I think when something can be proven
wrong over and over and over and over again, then
(03:16):
I stop believing in it. If my Blazing five was
wrong under fifty percent every year, I'd stop doing it.
But like fourteen of the last fifteen years, it's been
over five hundred, about fifty three to fifty six percent,
So I keep doing it. The grading system is mostly nonsense.
What I do, and I'll do this on Fox Sports
(03:37):
One and Fox Sports Radio, is that I'll take your
top three free agent moves and combine it with your
top two or three picks, and that gives you a
much better hit rate. Who really had a great draft,
but trying to guess your fourth, fifth, six, seventh round picks,
nobody knows. I mean, take New England, Yeah, I think
(03:58):
Mac Jones. It's going to take a couple of games
against Josh Allen and you're gonna realize you don't have
a twenty twenty one athlete at quarterback. So if he
doesn't work, how good of a draft is it? Same
with Chicago justin fields. If he doesn't hit. I think
he will with Matt Naggie. But if he doesn't, how
can you give that draft an A plus? Everybody's like
Bears a plus. You don't know, you won't know for
(04:19):
two years. Kansas City's not getting viewed as a great draft,
but they literally rebuilt their offensive line with two elite
players on the left side well for Andy Reid and
Patrick Mahomes. That will have a significantly greater impact than
probably any drafted player over the weekend. So if you
(04:41):
take the rebuild of the offensive line for the Chiefs
and combine it with their first two three picks, boom
is a great offseason for Kansas City. All right, let's
bring on Chip Kelly, UCLA head coach. Big year for him.
It's almost like you were before your time in the NFL.
Do you look at some of the poll nation kind
(05:04):
of of college football into the NFL now and think,
you know, maybe I was about eight years ahead of it.
You know, if and I've said this before, but if
you weren't in the room with Amos, Alonzo Stag and
Newt Rockne when they invented this game, then you stole
it from somebody else. You know. So Dutch Myers, who
was the head coach at TCU in the fifties, was
(05:25):
running empty no backs. You know, when no one talks
about it. You know, everybody talks about when we got
to Oregon and we're running up tempo. And know Huw
sam Weish was doing that in the NFL with the
Cincinnati Angles, you know, and and Marv Levy was doing
it with the Buffalo Bills in the ke gun, you know.
So it's it's cyclical. I think it's just trying to
figure out what applies the game itself. I think that
(05:48):
at the next level has turned into more of a
spread out game because people have realized the athletes are
so good, we better get them in space. You know,
the days of Buddy Ryan was ahead his game because
he ran the forty six defense. Everybody was in two
back and you couldn't run the ball. You know, when
they had those monsters up front, was singletary behind them
(06:08):
and they played press man on your two receivers and
you couldn't get off. So how do you combat those
defenses that are all in the box because we got
to spread people out, And that's where I think the
college spread out game has kind of moved to the
professional level. And there are some guys, you know, Andy
Reid's a great example. You know, you look what Sean
Payton's doing with two quarterbacks and he's got a Hall
of Fame quarterback and Drew Brees and he takes out
(06:29):
of the game sometimes so Taysom Hill can play. You know,
it's I think everybody's still evolving and that's the fun.
But I think there's a lot of similarities. It used
to be really different where college I think ten twelve
years ago was one way. In the NFL was different.
But I really think there's a lot of there's a
lot of there's a lot of carry over from both
now when you sped the tempo up collegiately. I remember
(06:51):
Nick Saban one time told me privately, he said, I
don't I think I can say it now. We were
up in Bristol and he said, you know, my concern
about this. He goes the officials, the game is so fast.
He goes in the Auburn game, and he didn't want
to say this because Auburn beat him. He goes, there
were eleven miss calls on both sides. He goes, though
the officials were just not in place. He goes, the
(07:13):
athletes will figure out the speed, so will the coaches.
I'm not sure fifty nine year old officials can. When
you were speeding up the tempo, and there were guys
like Saban that said, I'm not sure football is meant
to be played this fast. Did you see that as
just kind of proprietary I'm protecting my program or were
there concerns out there that were legit? Now I think
(07:36):
it was proprietary. You know. The two biggest and there's
two great coaches at the time were Nick Saban and
Brett Dilema. But look at what they ran offensively, you know,
and I would in the same way, like, well, why
can't we play fast because I think you should play fast. Well,
we played fast as an equalizer, So how do we
tire out an see defensive alignment because we're not going
to be able to line up one on one and
(07:57):
knock him off the ball. So everybody comes with it
with a little bit jaded And you've got to give
Nick credit. And that's why he may be the greatest
ever do this game, is he has evolved and now
he does it all. You know, the things he didn't
like he's doing. You know, he was a guy didn't
like RPOs. They may be the best in the country
at RPOs, you know, And so when you look at it,
(08:18):
that's what makes him such a great coach because he's
constantly evolving. But I think a lot of that when
you're worried. You know, we all want, if you want
to win an argument, how do I get as much
fodder on one side to the other. You know, let's
let's play to the referees. We can't get the referees
on our side, and they'll they'll make the game slow
down a little bit. But Nick's always looking for an
advantage and he's really done. You look at what they've
(08:38):
done and civil and where they are. You know, you
could argue that their wide receiver, you now, which ten
years ago you wouldn't have said that, But now you
look at the white outs that they've turned out in
the last couple of years and you're like, holy smokes.
But they're doing such a good job with it because
I think he's evolved with it. But yeah, I can
see him saying that because at that time, it was
a run the ball guy, and let's play great defense.
(08:59):
Now it's it's almost you've got to get a stop
or two in each half and then see if if
you can continue rolling on offense, you know, then you're
good to go, you know. And that's really what the
game has turned into. The reason I think Saban's the
best college coach I've ever seen is not simply because
of winning, but what hurt Mac Brown, Bobby Bowden, Pete
(09:23):
Carroll and Urban and Florida that it's transient at the
coaching level. That Pete kept losing coordinator after coordinator, and
I remember him telling me once in his office, I'm
recruiting coaches as often as I'm recruiting defensive ends. Saban
has lost really high in assistance and just keeps reloading.
(09:46):
I find that it fascinating. Um, I don't maybe he's
so connected. I mean, just take me to that. The
difficulty in losing coaches and having to find good ones
that are often better than the previous one. I mean,
that's I don't think he gets enough credit for you know,
and I think he developed the analysts off the role,
(10:07):
off the field role um that no one really had,
and then turned it into a real almost like a
landing spot. You know, when you look at that, just
who's been an analyst at at Alabama, it's it's a
who's who. It's it's Sark, it's Mike Locksley, it's Butch Jones,
it's Mike Stoops at The list goes on and on.
(10:29):
So he also has a bullpen of guys so that
when a guy leaves, he may have the guy already
on staff. So the transition for him is the offense
and defense and terminology doesn't change. He's not bringing in
a new guy that brings in his offense or his defense.
He's still running it the way he wants to run it. Um.
He did it with Kith Lane, started off as as
an analyst, and then he promoted Lane when he lost guys.
(10:51):
So he's got a unique system. And I think that
that unlike anybody else. Um, you know, we only four analysts,
and they're they're low paying jobs and they're all real
level jobs. You know, we don't have what they have.
But it's he set that up because I think he
was he was really conscious of that, is that you're
gonna lose coaches, So what do I do to come
back that? You know, he's he's got an answer for
everything that I think you can look at and say, hey,
(11:14):
this is what we The next big hurdle is gonna
be Laart how do I handle that? And I think
you hit it? Hit it right on? Is his ability
to replace coaches has been been phenomenal, you know, and
almost like the next guy comes in is better than
the guy that left, and the guy that left was
really good. The single greatest player you've ever coached, that's
a great question, I would say. You know, from a
(11:35):
talent standpoint, Jason Peters at in Philadelphia was as good
at tackle at that's ever played the game. Um personal
fai was Darren Sprowles, you know, he was it. You
meet Darren Sprowls and you're like wow, like that's an
NFL player, and then watch him for five minutes in
practice Colin and you're like wow, like that's what's so special.
(11:58):
We were in a walkthrough. He took a handoff and
it was Ota rules and you can't do anything. There's
so many rules in the off season. What you can do,
I can't do when he's sprinted. And I was like, Baron,
it's it's walk through, you can't sprint. And he was like,
I haven't lasted this long in the NFL by not sprinting,
So I'm a sprint I said, all right, everybody else
walked there and run full speed, and and just and
(12:21):
everybody just you just watched him. I don't know anybody
that's ever practiced as hard as he's ever practiced. And
when you look at his career, got played thirteen years
in the National Football League, and it's he's as tough
as they come, he's as gracious as they come, he's
as competitive as they come. And he could do it all.
He could return, he could carry the football, he could
(12:42):
catch them all coming out of the backfield, and he
was just he was just an amazing guy to be
around on a daily basis. But you know, those two
guys kind of jump out just because of you know,
obviously he'sn just because of how athletic a guy at
that size, and I mean he's really a Hall of
Fame type tackle. You know, to be around someone I
remember and moved the first time and I was like,
(13:04):
holy smokes, is I can't believe how athletic this guy is,
you know, And there was and it's there was a
ton of others, you know, coach and Marcus, you know,
a good guy won the Heisman Trophy and Marcus Mariota
and what an amazing athlete. And how quick he processed things,
you know, the ability to run, how accuracy was his
ability to process things. You know, he was a special player.
(13:25):
There was There was a bunch of really good players
that I had an opportunity to coach with that we
bring in. Chris Ballard used to work for the Bears
as their director of pro scouting, then hooked up with
Andy Reid in Kansas City. He was the director of
their football operations and is now the very successful general
manager of the Indianapolis Colts. Carson Wentz to me, has
(13:51):
more of an Andrew luck personality than a Peyton Manning personality,
or a certainly more than a Philip Rivers personality. That's
what it looked. That's what it feels like to me,
a little understated, not as verbal, bright kid. What did
you know about his personality before you got him in
the room. Well, I mean, look I've got a guy
(14:14):
that coached him for two years when was a part
of the process of drafting him, so that that was
a real advantage. And then his college coach was Craig
Bowle who's now at University of Wyoming, who recruited me
to University of Wisconsin, so I had an inside there
into who he was. And then North Dakota State also,
(14:34):
you know, still had some coaches there that were connected
with But at the end of the day, Frank and
I just have a lot of trust and Frank, I mean,
this guy, our head coach, is outstanding Colin. I mean,
he gets it. He played in the league for fourteen years.
He's brilliant, smart, he's got great emotional intelligence. I mean
(14:55):
I thought that was the one. Like Coachree always thought
had high level emotional intelligence. And I think most great
leaders have high level emotional intelligence. And I think Frank
does too. And he's just got a great way about him. Um,
you know, dealing with the quarterback position, so you know
his insight. And then when you watch the tape, there's
(15:16):
a lot of good tape on Carson Wentz. I mean
I say this all I mean, I've said this a
few times Colin. But quarterbacks like you wish all of
them came into the league and just lit the league
up and never had any struggles. But there's there's a
point when they got to stand on the abyss and
not jump, and you know that's we can't let Carson jump.
(15:41):
And I don't think Frank Willum he didn't play good
last year. I think Carson Carson admits that he didn't
play good last year. I mean I don't and I
think Carson would tell you the same thing that you know,
don't don't put the blame on everybody else. I mean,
we all had our hands in you know what happened,
you know, back in you know, last year in Philly
(16:03):
for whatever reason. You know, he was a part of that.
But it doesn't mean we still can't see the good
and the greatness of what's in him. And we believe
it's in there, and we believe, you know that over
time we'll get him to play at that level again.
For as steady as the Colts have been since you've
been here, you have had two of the toughest moments
(16:27):
in the league as a GM. You have a coach
he backs out. Thank God, you have a great backup plan.
And then Andrew Luck retires and these are like, they
don't happen. This isn't stuff you go to college for.
You don't Andy Reid smart. He can't teach you that
(16:47):
the moment of the Andrew Luck thing that night, did
you sleep? Can I just ask you? Did you sleep
that night? So I cared deeply about Andrew still do,
still very close with him, and like a player's health
and well being long term, it's it's important to us.
(17:11):
It's important to me. I can't like I can't operate. Look,
I look, we're judged by our wins and losses. That
that's that's how we're judged. And but on the flip
side of that, I like I cannot get not be
emotionally tied. That's just who I am. Like, I can't
change who I am. So I was extremely close with
(17:35):
Andrew So I understood, like I understood, Did I did?
I like it? Absolutely not. I got this beautiful quarterback
that is just you know, he's a top two or
three guy in the league. And you know, we're about
there and we think we got a really good, freaking
(17:55):
young team and about to freaking take off, and we
get thrown a curveball. Well, that's just that's life. I'm
explaining it to my children and telling them that, you
know what, nobody cares about the problem. All they care
about is if you try to if you fix it.
That's that's what our league's about. Now. Did I have
(18:18):
some moments where you know, I'll tell you this, cod
I never had a moment where I felt sorry for myself,
and I never had a moment where I let the
organization feel sorry for themselves. We were gonna just keep
moving forward and problem solve and try to fix the problem.
And that's all you can do. I mean, it just
works out. If you just keep working at this and
(18:40):
keep doing things the right way, it's gonna work out.
I mean, that's part of that's. Problems happen, you gotta
fix them, keep moving forward. So let's bring in my
friend Bill Polian GM of the Bills Panthers Cults, super
Bowl champion, ind six time NFL exactly the year Pro
Football Hall of Fame inductee about five years ago, and
(19:02):
somebody I've relied on for years, almost strangely as a mentor,
even though we don't see each other in person, but
I've taken his advice for years. One of the gms
I talked to was not going to draft a player
who's talented out of Iowa. And he went to an
(19:24):
NFC team and he just said, you know, we're not
there's a character risk there and we're not gonna go
how many players because there are some players that are
red flag players. If you really loved a guy's talent,
what was your how did you win Bill Parcels if
I recall, was a guy that he he was going
(19:46):
to clean a locker room up, He wasn't gonna he
didn't have a lot of tolerance for you know, nonsense
and character issues. How did you view that? If you
really had a player, you loved him, and you thought,
you know what, kids make mistakes? I mean, how did
you view that stuff? Well, first and foremost we were
exactly like Bill, because Coach Levy, who taught me about
(20:07):
the business, was exactly like that, and so was Tony Dungeon.
So character was a disqualified Bad character was a disqualifier
for us. So then you go to the next question,
which you correctly pose, is what makes up bad character? Well,
everybody makes mistakes, and so let's use the most obvious one.
(20:32):
Marijuana use. If it's a one or two time thing, okay.
If the guy's been clean awhile and there's no issue,
and we hear from the school and others that there's
no issue, then we're okay. We didn't used to be okay.
That's changed as time has gone on. But if a player,
(20:53):
and I think I know the player you're talking about,
if a player is not a good team, if he's disruptive,
if he does not work hard, if he's not trustworthy,
if he's not a good citizen, if he's a person
who was on the wrong side of the law far
(21:13):
too often, then he's off the board, regardless of talent.
And I often tell the story when I speak to
scouts or others in the football community. My first year
with the Colts, mister Arsay had a good friend who
who was a you know, a really knowledgeable guy. He
(21:34):
followed the draft, so he came along with mister Arthsay
to look at the board on Thursday. In those days,
the draft began Friday, I think, and or Saturday maybe,
and he looked at the dnd list on the on
the sideboard. He said d NDC, which meant through not
draft character and he said, holy back, we'll look at
there's there's a good team up there. What are you
(21:54):
guys doing? And Jim said to him, leave him alone.
They know what they're doing, right, And it turned out
most of the guys that were on that list didn't
do well. Bill, When I mean, it's obviously Jerry Jones
always had a little greater opinion of his draft knowledge,
perhaps than reality. But he's not the only owner who
(22:19):
thinks that. But he's the most notable and most public
in your years. I would guess you would not have
tolerated that or you would have moved on. But was
there ever a moment? I mean, these billionaires aren't dummies
that an owner did say something to you pre draft,
pre free agency, kind of a macro opinion that you
(22:39):
I mean, you know these guys are from thirty thousand
feet that an owner said something to you. You know, Bill,
I'm not going to get involved with your players, but
just I want you to consider this. Is that a
real conversation that ever happened to you and an owner
with between you and an owner? Yeah, absolutely, I'll tell
you the story. It's a great story. Again, the Thursday
before the draft comes in and out that Jim is.
(23:01):
First of all, Jim Ris is very knowledge of energy
and kind of the most knowledgeable owner in terms of
pure football. And he did watch film and he knew
what he was looking at, and during the whole process
he would stay hands off. Occasionally he'd asked me a
question about a player or two, where you know, what's
the story with the injury? Why is this guy? Why
(23:23):
did he not play well? You know, he was going
through the process on his own and uh. And so
we get in the draft room and we explained to
him that we have a defensive end from Colorado that
we like very much and and we have Dallas Clark,
and the choice is going to be between those two.
And if we get there, you know, tomorrow Tony and
(23:45):
I are going to have to you know, we still
have to talk this out. So Tony says, you know,
I really like the defensive end because they can do
this and this and this. And I said, you know,
I kind of leaned toward Dallas Clark because I think
he gives our offense a dimension that it does and
have now he's at once in kind of a every
ten years type of tight end, not unlike the kid
(24:06):
that went to Atlanta. So Jim says, well, okay, you know,
I trust you guys. I know you'll talk it out
and you'll make the right decision you always do. I
trust you completely. So he got up to leave the room,
and he turned around. He said, you know, if it
were me, I take Dallas Clark. And we all broke up,
(24:30):
and Tony said, well, I guess I know we're taken now,
all right, I bring in my buddy, Matt Mosley, longtime
Dallas Cowboys columnist. He's written for the Dallas Morning News,
one of the great American newspapers. You know, they're all
hanging on by a thread, but that's one of the
good ones. ESPN dot Com, Fox Sports dot Com, The
Doomsday Podcast, The Matt Mosley Show, ESPN in Dallas. I
(24:52):
may hire him someday for the volume, but we have
a limited budget and he's expensive as hell. So he's
out there eating chicken fried steak every Saturday night. I
can't afford this guy. He's rolling the big dough. Give
me the rundown of the division. I'd go Washington first,
Philly last, and then I think the Giants and the
Cowboys battled for a wild card spot potentially your thoughts. Well,
I think you're I don't know. This guy is a weirdo.
(25:15):
It seems like when I see him talk the new
coach the Eagles. M So I kind of agree with
you there the quarterback thing, I probably And maybe it's
because I've watched so much Big twelve and I think
that guy is a huge winner. Like he's a guy
that likes to carry people and suddenly he has a weapon,
is a big time weapon with him that he knows
(25:36):
a little bit. So I would say the Eagles, I
have a little higher than you do. I might even
sneak the Eagles up into the two spot. I really would.
And the Giants. Here's the thing. I don't like the
Giants quarterback. They're stuck with this guy seemingly forever and
he everybody's like a Danny Dimes whatever. Yeah, this is
a weird I mean I don't think I think he's third.
(25:58):
I think the Giants or third, and maybe now Redskins
third and the Giants for now. Who does that leave, Oh,
my goodness, the Dallas Cowboys. And what it leaves us
with is a rough another rough division, another division. Now
what the Cowboys are hoping you know every year it's
(26:18):
if nobody gets hurt, we could have we could have greatness,
and then of course all the offensive linemen get hurt
and everything goes to hell. I would just say they
got faster, they got some speed. But I'm telling you, Colin,
I've been I've looked at these things before. When you
are counting on third round in fourth round players being
(26:41):
starters right away, it works for some franchises. It doesn't
always work for these guys. And that's what they were
trying to do. I mean they're they're literally needing and
you know what they're telling you, what Stephen and Jerry
are telling you, is we don't have the money. We
just signed this quarterback. And you do a great job
of talking about contract stuff. You understand all that they
just put a huge amount of money in one position.
(27:04):
And what they said leading into this draft almost like
an NBA team or something. We got to hit on
all of these guys and this is the future of
our defense. So who do they have, Like, who's their
big stud on defense? Thank Lawrence, and then name me
another one. You gotta have it be Parsons. Suddenly you
need your number twelve overall pick to be your second
(27:26):
best defensive player. Who's the leader? Vander Esk stay healthy,
Jaalo Smith is just kind of he's not very good.
Who is your leader? Other than you got Tank Lawrence.
You got everybody kind of either retiring or heading out.
This is a rough So this is and you've said
it before, this is a team that needs to go
out and score thirty five and forty points a game. Yeah. Well,
(27:47):
I mean I think Dak this morning is the best quarterback.
If Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jalen Hurts, and Danny Dimes are at
the good news is you got a super Bowl winning coach,
You have the best arguably best skill old people in
the division. You got the best quarterback. I mean, you know,
I wouldn't have paid Dak forty million, but in the end,
(28:07):
I think he's the best, most reliable quarterback. Your time
of possession goes up. I think Dallas is Washington defensively,
Dallas offensively. You're gonna battle to the end for a
playoff spot. That's all for this week. Got a great
(28:28):
week coming up. Make sure to subscribe and follow us
at The Volume Sports on Twitter and Instagram. The Volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com