Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bo Nix, Caleb Willams Shine In Preseason Debut, Aiyuk Holdout Drama, Sirianni Losing The Locker Room? - The Colin Cowherd Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
All right, John Middlecoff, We're gonna have a good one today.
Don't go anywhere. We're gonna have a really good one
over an hour today. I hope uh Bo Nix, Michael Pennix,
JJ McCarthy, stuff on the Niners. We are gonna be
packed today. Some rumors about Philadelphia and Nick Sirianni Jalen hurts.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
This is gonna be a great hour.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Don't go anywhere before we go to John Middlecoff from
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(00:43):
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Speaker 1 (01:29):
All right, We're.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Ready to go. John Middlcoff three in out former NFL scout.
There are no normal flights in America anymore. There are
no normal flights. I don't do private. I want to
be I tell my wife all the time. I'm one
of the people up until the people arrive, man of
the people. So I go on these just like everybody else.

(01:51):
Last six flights, something happens, something unravels. Lady next to me,
older lady, little eccentric things. She went to the bathroom
nine times. At one point she was at the window.
I was in the aisle, John, I said to her,
would you like to sit in the outside seat? You know,

(02:14):
see if she and she said no. And what I
wanted to say was I meant outside of the plane,
like on the wing. You want to sit out there?
Because I literally my meal? Nope, get up, movie get
up after about the ninth time, and we're about an
hour out. I just kind of looked at her for
a second and I thought, you know, what am I

(02:35):
gonna do? What am I going to say?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
You know, I try to be I always want something
crazy to happen on my plane flights. All these viral
things of madness, it never really happens. I haven't really
had many bad or weird interactions yet on the Internet
and your story I hear and see about them all
the time. I kind of want that to happen on
one of my flights, maybe not next to me, but
just somewhere in the vicinity, because it seems like these

(03:01):
you're stuck. I mean Chicago to LA and that's not
a that's not Sacramento to you know, Scots say, that's
a long flight, right, what is it? Three and a
half four hours?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, and I've moved. You know, if somebody comes up
to me, unless you know, they want me to move,
like you know in Roll thirty eight, if somebody comes
up and says, hey, my wife's sitting here, like I'm
always like, yeah, go ahead, do whatever you want to do.
I go online, I don't care. I watch a movie Netflix,
I don't care. You know, people have different stuff. But
today I'm just like, come on, man, give.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Me a break. Just like, drink too much water or something.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
She was drinking a lot of water, and you know,
it could have been people have what they have. It
could have been a you know, you know, there's a
lot of stuff going on right now in America. True,
I'm not going to guess. So my first take was
of all the young quarterbacks, bow Nicks look exactly like

(03:58):
I thought bo Nix was going to look like. And
the Broncos quarterback out of Auburn and Oregon because he
had so many college starts, you kind of know what
he is and what I think.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think the Drew Brees comp because of Sean Payton
feels kind of accurate. He's certainly right now more mobile
than Drew Brees was at the end of his career.
But my take on bow Nicks was, that's exactly what
Sean had texted me. That's exactly what I saw in college.
No big surprises. You're a former scout, what'd you see?

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah? I think him and Michael Pennix are two guys
that played in college football for felt ten years and
they played each other. It felt like what four or
five times over the last eighteen months in massive games,
and starting with bow knicks, he got dinged a lot
because of the offense he played in right through it. Yeah,

(04:47):
parallel to the line of scrimmage all the time. It
used to happen forever with the leech offensive guys, the
spread offense, you know, Hawaii, Mike Leach, wherever he was
then Oklahoma started, you didn't need a big arm quarterback.
Watching him in college going, I think his arm's a
little bit better than the way he's getting I would say,
kind of pigeonholed as a player, and you watch him today,

(05:09):
I don't want to say he's you know, he's not
Brett Favor Josh Allen, but his arm strength is well
above average in the NFL. And that touchdown pass he
had was in and out of his hands in the
corner of the end zone, hitting the guy accurately at
the front of the pylon. It doesn't get any better
than that, the velocity, the accuracy, how quick it is.
And then obviously you see again Patrick Willis isn't exactly

(05:31):
chasing him, but clearly his athleticism moving around translates and
and he's confident like that was the thing with Trey
Lance when the Niners got him his athleticism, he wasn't
confident in it because he had never been chased by
the caliber of player. Bo Nicks has been playing the
best of the best, like I said, for ten years
in college and athleticism movement wise. Clearly what Sean Payton

(05:53):
wanted to do and this didn't work out because he's
not a quarterback, was a guy like Taysom Hill who
could move around and throw. You know, Drew Brew he
was stagnant in the pocket. Now he's great at it.
But the modern day football, you have to be able
to move to throw. I don't need you to be
Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be able to keep
plays alive. You notice all these rookie quarterbacks. They're all athletic,

(06:13):
and they all can throw on the move. And bo
Nicks clearly can. And I know, Sean kind of old
school not naming the starter had him down. This thing's over, Okay,
I don't even know who the Broncos play week one.
He's your starting quarterback week one. You agree with that,
and this thing will play itself out you know, I
think you want to make him earn it. Sean is
not one of these new age thirty eight year old

(06:33):
offensive coordinators. Yeah, but this thing played itself out today
in front of everyone's eyes, like there's no point putting.
It'd be one thing if they had Peyton Manning or something.
This Jared stid them like this, this thing's.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
A rand, come on well. And the other thing, he
looked more comfortable in the pocket one of his backups,
Zach Wilson did in any game in New York. His
feet were great, he was set. That's a lot of
it's just college starts. And the other thing. He played
in the SEC. So that's the best defensive conference easily.
And then when he went to the Pac twelve, that's

(07:06):
probably the best the Pac twelve has been in my lifetime.
I mean, Washington was good, Oregon was good, Utah and thump.
Oregon State was good. USC could score, Arizona won seven
in a row and beat Oklahoma in a bowl game.
The conference was really.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Ucla was good on defense these last couple of years.
They had a top fifteen pass rusher.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
So I bow Nick's you know, you say, oh, we
went to the Pac twelve. No this pac twelve. Arizona
the basketball school reeled off seven straight and beat Oklahoma
in a bowl game. It was a real Oregon State
was really good at the end of the year. It's like, guys,
this and you know the utter thing about bowl When
I watched him twice. I saw him play Washington Oregon
in person. I saw him at the forty end zone.

(07:47):
And then I went two weeks later, I think it
was or whatever it was, I went to the Utah
game and I got like second row seats. I called
the buddy. I got right down the field, right behind
the Oregon bench because I wanted to watch he and Penix.
And he's more cut than you think he's. He he's
ripped and he is really verbal on the sideline dad
A's a coach. And then I met him in person
for about an hour forty five minute interview, forty minute

(08:07):
interview before and after the show. I was just blown
away by him. And then I got a couple early
texts from Sean Payton and I was like, this kid's
really working. And the other thing about him is there
is something to be said about seeing the field. We've
always said this was Zach Wilson and Justin fields. They
just don't see it. It just takes a beat too long.
Bo sees the field. And some of this is not

(08:30):
only did he play at two schools. I believe he
had five different coordinators in five years. It could be four,
but I think it's five. So John, this kid has
had to pick up. We've never seen this kid have
the same system back to back here.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, think about this, Colin, and we've talked about this
many times. All the best quarterbacks right now in the
NFL have struggled at points in time early in their career.
A lot of them in college. Mahomes is on a
team getting their ass kicked by any good team. Right
did not have any Josh Allen Baked schools like Fresno
State first scholarship, they said no thanks. Lamar got drafted

(09:06):
thirty second in a draft that had a bunch of quarterbacks.
His own team drafted another player before they drafted him.
Justin Herbert was kind of an afterthought after Joe Burrow
into a Tongua Bay Lowe. So you look at this class.
Bo Knicks got beat up bad when he was in
the SEC and had to transfer, and clearly it changed
his career, right, So you see a lot of these guys.

(09:27):
You know, Caleb is one guy that had a lot
of success, But I think this class is full of
guys that had to struggle, and he, to me, is
at the top of the Him and Penix, I mean
had to transfer, were not viewed as first round picks
by any means at the time they transferred and really
had to earn it. And both those two guys, I mean,
bo was awesome. I mean in college, obviously statistically he

(09:49):
was incredible. Now it's a little inflated the way people play.
It's why that any coach will tell you, Okay, he
throws a bunch, you know, parallel to the line of scrimmage.
When I evaluate him, we don't want those passes. I
think Sean said that I cut those out and we
evaluate everything past the line of scrimmage, the timing, the rhythm,
the accuracy. Yeah, I mean I was pretty blown away.

(10:11):
I mean I was bullish on him just because of
his coach, but his physical skills. That's the other thing.
Him and Caleb Bright aren't super tall, and it stands
out when you see him. They're not six four sixty five.
Both of them are thick. Both of them are built. Russell,
who's shorter than those guys, had that same thing early on.
You're like, well, he looks like an NFL guy physically. Kyler,
who's even shorter in that also built, and that matters.

(10:34):
And that's like watching Jayden, very physically gifted, throws a
beautiful ball, but god, he's skinny. And bo Nicks has
this innate ability because he's been a runner his whole
life and he played in the SEC. He's not playing heroball.
Get out of bounds, get down like I'm getting. Caleb
yesterday had a great slide, like you can't be running

(10:55):
around JJ McCarthy yesterday had a run. There were two defenders.
He kind of lowered his shoulders, like you can't do this.
And I understand John Lynch and Steve Atwater the game
has changed, but that's the only time when these defenders.
They can't hit you all preseason because the starters don't
play joint practices. There's no tackling the regular season game
for seventeen of them. When you cross that line of

(11:16):
scrimmage and you're erect, they're coming at you. And I
know these guys are a little smaller They've never been faster.
So these linebackers now, they don't wait two sixty, they
weigh two twenty eight or two thirty four. They're running
four four fours and they will destroy that. They'll break
your collarbone, they'll break your leg.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
So well, that's what happened to Baker Mayfield that when
he got his collarbone broken, he tried to size up
a safety. I think it was kar Ran over him.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Can't do it. I remember early on in Derek Carr's
career he tried to stiff arm pac Man Jones. Luck
he didn't break his hand. He hurt his thumb. You
cannot these guys. And I think bo Nick's very unique
situation when you say to go to a coach like
this with the experience he has. But to me, the
physical skills were got. I guess I didn't quite realize

(12:02):
how strong his arm was. It jumped off the TV
this morning.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
So the other guy you mentioned, JJ McCarthy, you know
he So you were a little surprised by bo Nix's
arm strength. JJ. I always thought he moved. I thought
he was a little quicker when I watched him this weekend.
Then I thought he was in college, not that I
didn't think he was athletic. He threw a pick, it's
it's sideline, it's you know, it's Jack Jones, good player

(12:28):
for the Raiders, quick kid, All American underachieved in his
college career. But he's actually super talented.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
He gets in trouble, but he can pay.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, he can really play. So there's no big with that,
big deal with that. But I thought, I mean, Darnold
will start, But I thought, Jj. You know what I
noticed with JJ McCarthy. He looked super confident. He just
felt like because I kept wondering, like, you know, he
kind of was a handoff guy for a lot of
the big games at Michigan. He made one or two
big throws every game. He came out with a ton
of confidence. And this goes to something I think we

(12:58):
both said before the draft. Whoever Minnesota drafted a quarterback had,
after maybe Caleb, the greatest chance to succeed. We all
know situational football matters. I mean, if you get a McVeigh,
a Peyton, that matters. When I watched him play that,
I watched the young quarterback who had had an offensive coach,
the tall Sean McVay. Kevin O'Connell in his ear. He

(13:21):
looked like he played with more confidence in kind of
uh bravado with the Vikings. They didn't Michigan, Michigan. He
was a little tempered. It was almost like, hey, if
we just don't turn it over, we're beating everybody. He
was making plays, he was moving around for the Vikings.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
One thing I really try to watch. I mean, the
preseason games in the second half can be unwatchable. Luckily,
this group of quarterbacks, there's like six of them, Like
you just like, I want to see what these top
twelve quarterbacks look like. Yeah, he stepped up in the
pocket and was very calm, which was like that that
is a trait that every team looks for always. There
was one pass that he completed over the middle where

(14:02):
a defender was basically unblocked and took him out and
he didn't hesitate and listen. Michigan was built. I think
they had, I mean five of their offensive lineman got
drafted for sure, it might have been six. Obviously, Jim
Harbaugh wants to run the ball. That's gonna what he's
gonna do. He's gonna ask his quarterback, especially in college,
a little something different Andrew luck was not asked to
do what he did in college in the pros, right,

(14:23):
he started throwing it all over the place. To me,
he loved that kid though, And Jim Harbaugh doesn't love
you if you're not a tough guy. So to me,
like Jim Miller's his toughness and that was on full display.
But like you said, the movement, the accuracy, to me,
the pocket presence, I think, what's tough. And I'm root
for Sam Darnold too, but if i'm When they drafted

(14:44):
Patrick Mahomes, Alex had some equity with the fans and
the franchise, right. He helped Andy resurrect the team. They
were going to the playoffs. He had been solid. Obviously
they needed better, but like I think, when you have
a bridge quarterback in a situation like this, it better
start fast because fans are gonna be like, what are
we waiting for? Like by Jefferson, I would imagine Addison

(15:04):
get suspended a couple of games, but whenever he's back,
you got an offensive head coach. I mean, we got
a star tackle. Like, let's just let's just get this
thing going. I mean, and I preseason is different than
regular season. The game plan. I get it, but like
his physical skills where he's coming from, Like you said,
his confidence is barbado and is his pocket work. That's

(15:26):
usually something like, hey, we gotta calm this guy down.
He's he's jittery. It happens to a lot of backups
when starters get hurt, right in the regular season, Like,
this guy's overwhelmed. It didn't seem like he's scared. Think
of the defense this kid's been going up against for
two years. It's an NFL defense, NFL coordinator, right, So
he's he's comfortable the bright lights, everything, you know, that
Hardbob rings, Like this guy's been at you know, like

(15:48):
Alabama Georgia level for these last couple of years. Just
what he's feeling on an everyday basis and practice in
the NFL is hard. So I think this guy's he
just looked comfortable, which to me, I allways projet project project.
This guy didn't really look a huge project to me.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, I mean I thought Donald would be much more,
not much more, but more athletic than JJ McCarthy, a
little bigger than JJ. He's a thicker kid, but I
thought JJ look he looked like Sam Darnald, he looked
a little quicker.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Are you better off? Though? Like, I don't think Minnesota
is a playoff team, so are you better off? I'm
a big believer you learn through experience, you learn by doing.
That's what we say at Harvard or the West cal Pauly.
But I do think it's true the more you do something,
the more comfortable you get at it. I don't care
if it's radio, podcast sales or playing quarterback. You can
only gain so much sitting behind a guy. And if

(16:39):
Sam Darnald the leash, it's a one year deal, it's
not like It's not like the Kirk Cousins Pennock situation,
so you you already know the outcome in the future.
I think there's a weird spot because obviously a coach,
this is the NFL. Everyone's trying to win this. No
one tanks early, maybe in December. But I wonder if
they have second thoughts. Obviously I think, say, I'm gonna

(17:00):
get the start immediately. But if it's a little rocky,
don't you want to get this guy a lot of experience,
especially he knows the plays. He looks comfortable like these
reps will only help him the next couple of years
when you try to build around his rookie contract. So
I'm a Sam I'm I've always rooted for Sam Donald,
like you have a soft spot for him. But like
if I was a Vikings fan, I'd be like, what

(17:20):
the hell are we waiting for?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Well, it's it's listen. I'm in good company. Kyle Shanahan
likes Donald, Kevin O'Connell likes.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Donald.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
I think, yeah, I kind of feel like Sam's in
the class of do is he the best backup in
the league now? Really seriously, Like that's a that's like
a real thing, like you're gonna play. I think my
take would be, you give it to Sam for a
couple of weeks, but once you go to JJ, there's
no going back. So I think Kevin will probably say

(17:52):
I was thinking as I watched him, Kevin's probably thinking, Wow,
they're closer than I thought. But but I get it.
Some of it could be health, Like your takeaway is
what are the matchups? What's the health of the old line.
But my thing, you're not going to go back if
you start JJ, So I think you just kind of look,
I think it's much closer than I thought going in

(18:13):
but and if last year, what's ironic is last year
they had to make a trade for Josh Dobbs. They
may have two guys that can play right now. And
I think Jason McIntyre said this the editor he picked
up for the playoffs. I said this, if they finished fourth,
that is the best fourth place team in a decade
in the league. That team's got dudes offensively everywhere. That's

(18:36):
a good offense.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think it would be pretty if they made the playoffs.
That'd be an increased I mean, it'd be one of
the better coaching jobs in recent memory. Given the division.
I mean, the Lions are stacked, right did you see
the touchdown past Jordan Love look like he has missed
a bag. Yeah, last year, that team's going to be good.
And let's face it, Caleb is such an upgrade from
what they had. And they were a seven eight ish
win team last year, So you go, they're going to

(18:59):
be better this year that that division. Like you said,
you could finish fourth, win six games and be like,
we're better than every team that's kind of in our
range by a wide margin.

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Speaker 2 (20:41):
So I want to talk about Caleb Williams of the Bears.
So Jordan Palmer was on my show I think it
was Thursday, and I thought he made a really good point.
I said, you know my criticism if I have one
of Caleb, he can be a little erratic. I talked
to two gms in the league about Caleb. They didn't
need him, they have quarterbacks, and they both said he
can be a little erratic. You know, sometimes he gets

(21:04):
a bit sloppy. Mahomes does, or did early in his career. Mechanically,
you know, Patrick's running around, he just gets a little
backyard football lee. And both the gms I talked to
with Caleb said he just he just has to get
more in rhythm, which he said, I think in the
pros he won't run around as much. He's a smart kid.
He'll figure out I don't want to get hit. The

(21:24):
second thing is sometimes he's a little bit of a playmaker,
a little bit of an ad libber. But Jordan Palmer said, listen,
he got bored with college.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
He was the.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Heisman winner right his first year at USC, and then
USC can't stop anybody his second year and he's like,
okay and terrible, and he's like, we're not a national
championship team. And Jordan said, when I watched him, I
saw a guy that was bored out of his mind.
And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
So when you get bored, you lose focus. When you

(22:00):
lose focus in any job, you get a little sloppy.
I thought Caleb was a little sloppy last year. And
I think sometimes Lincoln Riley, because of the offensive line,
really struggled with what to call. And I heard that
inside the program. It's like Lincoln just didn't trust the protection.
So he's like, I'm not getting Caleb Williams hurt. I'm

(22:21):
not getting it, you know, cause Caleb was. He came
all the way out to USC first year, got pretty
good protection, wins the highest. But I think Lincoln feels
like you know what it's worth it. This is gonna
be great by the second year. Halfway through it, I
think Lincoln, what I was told is Lincoln just there's
things Lincoln wouldn't call. He didn't want to get him hurt.
And so I think go back to the previous year.

(22:42):
That's the Caleb Williams you're going to see in Chicago,
which is focused runs the play, can ad lib if
he has to. But Jordan's whole point was don't judge
too much. In the last five or six USC games,
team was terrible. He was bored ad libing a little
bit more than he probably would in real life. So
what's your thought on that?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, I mean I think if you go and watch
every play that he had in that preseason game, he
showed every tool in the toolbox. I mean, my mother
could see that play that he made roll into his
right that he threw to Comet. That's as good as
it gets. I mean, that's Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. But
the play that he made, the little dump off to Swift.
I don't think we talk enough about instincts as a quarterback.

(23:22):
Some guys have them and some guys don't, and that
means feel in the pocket. That means to know when
it's not going to go well and I got rid
of the ball immediately, or when I can keep a
play alive. And I think the new trait that every
team looks for is the scramble to throw and keep
plays alive. But to scramble to throw, you need a
good arm. It's what Aaron Rodgers built a Hall of
Fame career on. He could throw outside the tackle box

(23:44):
ropes accurately. And that's what Caleb Williams can do in spades,
because let's face it, all these teams in the NFL
now multiple most teams have multiple sweet pass rushers. There
aren't as many good offensive linemen in the league anymore,
so you've got to be able to move. And he's
accurate in the arm. Strength is just elite. Like you said,
he's gonna have a little hero ball, But how could

(24:05):
you not have hero ball if that's the skill that
he has. I mean, Patrick Mahomes, he had to get
older and realize that we can play a little different,
but early on, like I want him to bring that
to the table because he's accurate throwing the ball downfield.
If he has to move now there's a difference of
something was open, you didn't need to do that, but
like nothing was there, your guard gets smoked. You gotta move.
But he made he did it all. He threw a

(24:27):
sweet play I think on like the second or third
pass of the game from the pocket. He had the
crazy instinctive play to swift. He had the play on
the move. The other thing and they I don't know
if you saw hard knocks yet, but they kind of
did this silly thing where they brought it a slip
and slide to teach the quarterbacks how to slide. I'm
sorry that they were joking about it, but also kind
of serious. It's important. His right arm is the franchise

(24:51):
and he had a scramble where he slid, and he's
gonna have I would say, depending on the game, anywhere
from two to five could be second, and eight could
be third and eight. He can scramble for ten yards
and pick up a first down. But when you scramble
and you're not by the sideline, you gotta fucking hit
the ground and you gotta slide because they can't touch you,
and the defenders know it when you stay up. And
JJ McCarthy did in the game, and a lot of

(25:12):
quarterbacks do it. You're gonna get clipped and you're gonna
get clipped hard. So if you're doing that, he can
stay healthy because he can avoid well. His short area
of quickness is just elite and then the army. He
doesn't need much space to get that thing off.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oh no, very mahomes like cognitively see get rid of
it fast. It's very Marino at USC he sees it.
It's out fast. The other thing is Kyler and Russell
Wilson were all was great sliders because they were baseball players. Yeah,
they were great. Lamar was terrible his first two years.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
I mean he still kind of plops. He's not natural
at it.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
He kind of jumps and sits but he can't say.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
But he learned how to avoid the hits. He can
just get down, that's right.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
So I think some of that is Caleb is it is.
I mean, Russell Wilson and Kyler were just like, Okay,
they've slid in a second a lot. This is obviously
the way they do it. It was terrible his first
two years. Like, dude, you're six ' five. You can't
go straight on an outside linebacker. I mean he'd goes
shoulder high and a guy Josh Allen, So I think, yeah, so,

(26:12):
I mean, and the other thing with Caleb, And by
the way, this was Jordan Love. Jordan Love had a
better year the year before he came out, and then
he lost a coordinator. Remember that he lost the coordinator,
he lost a coach, he lost people. He was not
very good as awful. So the Packers went to the
previous year video and went, yeah, that's that's who he is.
And so you take the best of what you saw

(26:32):
because obviously, if you lose a coach at Utah State,
you may get If you have three coordinators at Utah State,
two may stink, one may be okay. So when he
had his best coaches, Green Bay looks at that and goes, Okay,
that's what he can be because our coaches are great offensively.
So I think with Caleb, you go back a year
and go when the old line was healthy. He'd come over.
And Lincoln was not afraid. Remember that year if they

(26:55):
beat Tulane, they went twelve games. They were really really
smoking that year. The second year, I think just I mean,
I was told this, Lincoln just he didn't.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
He didn't.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
It was a different play calling year, a different sensibility
with Kleb, and it was he just wanted to make
sure he didn't get hurt.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I think a lot of people in one talking point
in football always is his arm strength a little overrated?
And then you watch Caleb play, and you watch Mahomes,
and you watch Josh Allen or Herbert and you just
go bs, it's just not now. Greg Maddox is one
of the greatest pitchers of all time. He did not
throw that hard, but most of the other greats, Nolan Ryan,

(27:32):
Randy Johnson, Pedro was blowing ninety seven. You kind of
gotta throw hard. And you know, Perty can get away
with it a little bit because his offensive scheme is
so great and he's a good athlete. He can scramble.
But Peyton Manning's one of the most accurate players in
the history of the sport. Arm strength match yes, and
it always has and it always will. And you see
these plays and you only see it even more once

(27:54):
the regular season starts. All these former quarterbacks talk about
the the kind of space in college relative to the NFL,
of what's open. Things happen quick. A lot of things
get screwed up, and you got to add lib and
that even puts more pressure on your arm. It ultimately
can be the downfall of some of these guys that
can't scramble and don't have a great arm, like Cousins

(28:16):
and Golf are good examples. When it's perfect, they can
destroy you. They can have four or five touchdowns on you.
But if you can throw them off, they can't move,
and then they can't throw very hard on the move.
So it's a major problem. You watch, you watch the
modern day football the modern day football player who's having
a lot of success in the NBA. What is it?
You gotta shoot threes? You better be able to scramble

(28:37):
and throw ropes because these all these young coaches want
to get you on the move. And even when they're
not getting you on the move, because more than likely
you're gonna have two or three offensive linemen that they
would gladly replace if they could, you're gonna be running
for your life. And a lot of these the good
ones keep their eyes up, scramble and throw in Caleb.
It's like geez it was to get up on Saturday

(28:59):
more and watch in the bill. I mean file score
was like thirty three to six. The Bills clearly didn't
even care. But just to watch his physical attribute, You're like, wow,
this in an NFL you and they were a DJ
Moore out there. They command, they were trying, you know,
they wanted to get this yes, confidence, yeah smart.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
So Jaden Daniels is a really interesting player to me.
He is skinny. It's not quite the Bryce Young where
he looks like, honestly, the helmet's too big for him.
It's not that, but he doesn't have the neck, the shoulders,
he didn't have the width. So I mean that that's
kind of the reality of it. He looked. I remember
watching him at Arizona State under her metwards and I'm like,

(29:39):
he may wait won seventy, Like it just didn't look right.
And then it looks like he's up to whatever it is,
to something. There's a little lamar, he's real quick. There's
a little Jordan Love where he lets it fly. I
said this the other day. What I like about Washington.
Everybody's new, I mean, owner, GM, coach, coordinator, players. It's

(30:04):
almost like you're part of a huge recruiting class. Like
the new coach comes in, the new Lincoln Riley comes in.
It's all his guys, right, but he brings in the transfers,
the recruiting class, and I feel like with Jayden, you know,
nobody's got seniority, nobody's you know, there's nobody that's resentful
of the new guys. That every single person in the
building is new. That matters. And I think that's important

(30:27):
for young quarterbacks because I think sometimes what happens is
a GM inherits a quarterback and is really not rooting
for him, Sean Payton and Harrets Russell Wilson, you know,
he's just looking for reasons to move on. So what
this tells me is John and you know this is

(30:47):
a scout. Jaden's going to get a full two years
of snaps. They're not bailing on it. They want this
to work.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Everybody in the.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Building was like, let's get it, dan Quinn, you know
you only get to miss on one quarterback. Cliff Kingsbury.
He's trying to rest his right now, his resume. You know,
people are like a kid coach, He's not hey, he
wants a second chance at this thing. If Jayden goes
Rookie of the Year, people are gonna give Kingsbury a
lot of credit, a lot of kudos. So my take

(31:13):
is on Jaden, it's not one of these where half
the people in the building they're almost like, you know,
justin Fields, he kind of felt like half the guys
in the building just weren't into it. He didn't do
himself favors. But I think Jaden's gonna get two straight years,
no judgment. I think it's gonna work. I don't know
to what I feel like it's gonna work.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Well. I would say the hype train on this has
been coming full steam ahead since training camp started. You know,
Caleb Williams the headliner. If this was a concert, it'd
be like Caleb Williams the headliner, and this is the
act that comes on before the headliner. But by the
end of that concert, that person is a star and
they're gonna be a headliner next year. That's how it's felt.

(31:54):
I mean, they just joint practice against the Jets, and
Sauce Gardner says, I went up to him and told him, Holy,
you're gonna be a player, And defenders don't just say
that because they're trying to be friendly. Like he's trbably
getting watching this guy pass. He throws Colin a beautiful
deepst I mean, remember Russell Wilson early on. It's like
his deep ball. That's gonna work. You just throw some

(32:15):
go routes every single you know, couple a quarter or something.
Push the ball down the field. His accuracy hits it,
and he's a really, really good athlete. My question will
be one the running around. He's never been a slide guy,
and he's thin. He will get hit. You've got to
learn how to do that because he's gonna They're gonna
run him. He had a touchdown yesterday. He just ran
him in. Now he walked into the end zone. But

(32:36):
they're gonna use these plays like Sean did with bow Nicks. Yes,
you're gonna scheme up run plays and then just can
he just pick you apart against a schemed good defense.
When you're playing the Cowboys, when you're playing the Eagles,
when you're playing the Giants, they all have good defensive lineman.
They're coming at you, and he really you know, in
college he had Malik Naghbors, who I mean, I think

(32:56):
could be an NFL star. The other guy was drafting
the top twenty five. I mean, yeah, so's he's used
to playing with stars. Terry Mclaurin's good. But this is
it's not just gonna be easy all the time. So
I think he's gonna have some ups and downs. But
even Zach Kertz said earlier this training camp, stop saying
he's gonna be a good player. He's good now this.

(33:17):
I don't think they're just blowing smoke. I think all
these people see him. They see he's accurate. The deep
ball's awesome, and he can move. You're like, there're is
so much here?

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well well, and Brian Kelly said this, and this is
what Cliff Kingsbury has said. He installs something the next
day nails it. Ye, So you know one of the
if you look at some of these guys that miss,
they just don't do the homework. I mean, Johnny Manzel
admits it. He just didn't do the homework. Like so
athletic ability, I always believe buys you two years in
the pocket, where if you're figuring out the defense, you're

(33:48):
not not up to speed. Everything's too fast. You're gonna run,
you're gonna move the chains, you're gonna your feet, are
gonna get your first downs. You're not gonna be great,
but it'll buy you stuff. Jared Goff didn't get that
his first year, right, like you either figure out. You
either figure out or you're in big trouble. They had
to get him Andrew Whitworth and say we got to
build a pocket here. So and the Washington's offensive line
is not very good. It's not Giants bad, but it's

(34:09):
not very good. So the truth is he'll he has
the advantage that for two years he's gonna move around
a lot and he's gonna buy some first downs. Kyler
did this. That was a shitty old line he inherited.
And it's like he kind of figured out how to
move the chains. Seven eight play drives because nine to
ten play drives, So I think. And the other thing
is it does matter to me every time I hear

(34:30):
him talk totally focused on football. It's like when Dak
broke into the league. I didn't love the way through.
Every time he talked, he said the right stuff. Every
time they interviewed Jake Jordan loved did this last year
even when he was struggling. Every time they asked him,
He's like, I'm going to get there.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
This is ugly.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
It's on me. John, I'm judgmental on that stuff. When
you well, how do you respond to criticism Jordan loved
last year. In September, he was still fantastic with those questions.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I think is full of those guys right now. I mean,
look at this class, when you just watch these guys
conduct themselves, when you feel when you think about the hype,
I mean, for a lot of my life, I felt
like half a class, you know, with a bunch of
high bunch of cockey guys, a bunch of guys walking in,
turning veterans off. It feels like the NFL as a whole.

(35:19):
I mean, think about the top quarterbacks, the way they
conduct themselves, the way they act, the way they handle
themselves in press conferences. It's almost like they're numb to
it all. They're completely unfazed. And maybe it gets back
to how popular college football is now, how they've been
under the spotlight even as a recruit. But you watch
you know, Jayden played at LSU. I remember I had

(35:40):
a buddy that still works in the league. Tell me
he was He was a GM for a little bit,
and he said he walked in like on the first
preseason game, and some of his rookies were like almost
throwing up, they were so nervous, and he went over
to one and the guy had played like Auburn or Georgia.
He's like, for the last three years you have played
in half your games were infinitely more important and had

(36:01):
more people watching and had more pressure than this game
you're about to go play in just relaxed. And I
think you watch a lot of these guys like, yep,
I played Auburn Alabama game for three straight years, or
I played against you know, I played against Ohio State
every year when twenty five million people were watching, and
it felt like they were in the big leagues. And

(36:23):
I wonder if a lot of these guys benefit with
the college football has always been big, but it really
felt big, especially from the quarterback standpoint, these last couple
of years. And these guys are walking in pretty seamlessly.
You know, well, it's a pretty easy transition so far
for the crew.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Well yeah, I mean bow Nicks and Pennix. Those guys
played all their games were sold out national TV. So
usually a PAC twelve quarterback comes out. He played in
some Arizona stadiums, but bow Nicks and Pennix every time
they met Husky Stadium or Eugene How's national television. Those
were high stakes, high pressure game. SEC games are all

(36:59):
bit especially at LSU.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Hey, what's up everybody? John Middlecoff here for the Three
and Out podcasts. The NFL season is right around the corner.
And if you want some of the best football content
out there, I got you covered training camp, through the preseason,
throughout the entire season. Subscribe and follow the Three and
Out podcast with me John Middlecock on Apple, Spotify, wherever
you listen to your podcast.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I want to talk about San Francisco, the forty nine Ers.
So I think I told you. I was told by
a player I trust two weeks ago I was going
to be a Niner. He's a I wouldn't say, I
don't know what the word is. He's young, he's a kid,
he's emotional, he's a receiver. And so he had told
a friend of mine, I'm getting this thing done. Then

(37:51):
something went sideways. He got pissed off, the Niners got
pissed off at his So my take was my source
was probably right. I got pissed off, the Niners got upset,
and it just blew up. Now it appears they've circled back.
Is that what you're hearing?

Speaker 1 (38:09):
I think the Niners drew a line in the sand,
said you want to dance, let's dance. They had two
trades ready to go, with contracts ready for him, and
he got cold feet slash. I don't want to play there,
which I guess is his prerogative. But it's like, you
demand to trade thirty one. Teams can't trade for you.
We have to get fair value. The Amari Cooper in
a second round pick. That's a good deal. Amari Cooper's

(38:29):
pretty productive player. The Niners like, you go to Cleveland.
They have twenty eight million dollars. And then he says no.
So to me, it feels like a guy who's gotten
a little over his skis. He does he really want
to leave San Francisco. Of course, not because you're a
star with the Niners. And he's a West Coast guy,
grew up in Reno when high school in Sack, played
at Arizona State, has become a well known name. But

(38:50):
got so emotional by this number. And let's face it,
the Niners drive a hard bargain. They had a number
and they didn't flinch because also, you're not a free agent.
We don't have to trade you anywhere. I want to
go to the Steelers well, yeah, they could get In theory,
I guess they could give you our their first round pick,
But what good does that do us Week one against
the Jets. That's that's that's a player that does not

(39:12):
exist for another eight months. First round picks or having
two of them are incredible in February, March, and April.
They do good teams, no good during the season. That's why,
ideally you make that trade before the combine. Well guess
what the Niners probably tried. No one was offering that
at the time. Why great wide receiver draft? Why am
I going to trade you my first round pick? When
I get a wide receiver is going to start at

(39:33):
a number. Instead of paying a guy twenty eight million,
I get the ideally or in the perfect world, the
similar player for four right, just basic economics, And I
think he overplayed his hand. And the Niners are like, listen,
we had these deals, they were the ones we'd accept.
Those are the teams. Everyone knows you're on the block.
No one else is coling, no one else has the money.
You want to go to the Steelers, they have nothing

(39:55):
to give us back. This has to be it takes
two to tango here. There's two sides, and we don't
want their draft picks. They're not giving us TJ. Watt,
so that ain't happening. Here's our number. What are you
gonna do? Not play? We want to give you a contract.
No One feels bad for him, and he's emotional. I
can't imagine being twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, have
this money, like the number that you think you're His

(40:19):
value on their team is a lot different than some
of these guys making twenty nine dollars. They don't play
like that, and I just think they're kind of at
a crossroads. But he does. I guess he has the leverage,
just not practice. He can demand a trade all he wants,
but if John and Kyle don't want to trade him,
he's not getting traded. Ideally, I think they want to
avoid this, right, They don't want this, but they're not

(40:40):
just gonna give them away because that's the easy thing
to do. So he's kind of stuck, and it's they're
pissed off. I know that obviously he's he's well established
that he's mad. They're mad. And this is kind of
a joke now because at the end of the day,
Bosa was gonna kind of get over on him. He
had all the leverage, he's the best player, he was
going to get a ton. They go, listen, you're really good,

(41:03):
but DJ Moore has been a lot better than you.
For six years playing with Coward and middle Cooff as
his quarterback, You've had productive quarterbacks and you're never going
to catch more Navy balls here. So the ROI and
R investment, if we give you thirty million dollars is
kind of a doesn't make a lot of sense. And
that's where I think they're kind of stuck looking at
each other. I still believe he's going to end up

(41:25):
on the Niners, but I think he might be a
first player in NFL history who sounds like a four year,
one hundred million dollar deal and is mad at the
dais when he gives his press conference, Well get ready
for that.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Well there's also a reality that receivers in this league
not named Jefferson, Chase, Davante Adams. This league is furnished
about thirty receivers a year out of college, and about
ten are productive immediately. But every other team, I mean,

(42:02):
if you go to the last decade, wide receivers are
walking into this league out of college guys like Puka Nakua,
Tank Dell, mid round guys, and you're like, shit, that
that guy's a one. That guy's not even a two,
he's a one. So the reality is the one position

(42:22):
that is literally expanding, you know, because there's a lot
of families outside of a Texas that aren't playing as
much football. There's not as many high school football players
today is ten years ago. There's not Moms are like
a lot of moms Southern California, LA. Forget it. You're
an outcast if you let your kid by high school football,
especially if you're west of the four H five Freeway,
like all the you know, all the high end fallutin

(42:43):
you know, coastal towns so Malibu, Yeah, Hermosa, Manhattan Beach
in Brentwood, Plaia. There does not. So my take is,
but if you start looking at that position, there's few.
They were good running backs. You get about one good
left tackle a year, maybe two one star quarterback, maybe

(43:06):
two serviceable ones. I could argue if I went back
and looked in the last decade, do we have eight
receivers a year that come in here and stick. So
it is hard unless you're like very top of the market,
and by the way, if you're very top of the market,
it's also discomforting. These guys now make thirty million dollars.
Some gms are like, I mean, you better be able

(43:29):
to do that on the rookie contract. You can't pay
your quarterback and a receiver thirty large like unless he's
Jamar Chase. So I think it's one of these situations
where they just if Trent Williams was in year three
in his career and they had two more years not
to pay him, I think you could be willing to
push it. They can't win the Super Bowl in my
opinion without Trent Williams. That's that's the roadblock here too.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, I think like you hit it on the supply
and demand. Brandon a Yuk was drafted the end of
the first round twenty seven. Debo who carried them to
the NFC Amster three years was a second round pick.
I watched today. I had the Colts game on in
the background and the kid from Texas is make him plays.
He's a second round pick. So, like you said, every
single year, obviously, first rounders, second, third, and fourth rounders

(44:13):
are making plays all season long at that position. They
cost a million dollars. If this was a real estate deal,
it would have been over weeks ago. The Niners, you
know this. They want two million. Niners are offering one
point six. We ain't budget you're not budgeting. We go
our separate ways. And that's kind of what's happened, except
he's stuck on their team because he's under contract and
their trump card is your fifth year options this year,

(44:35):
and we have two franchise tags. We want to make
this work, but this is our number. You're not a
free agent. You are not a free agent, so you
can sit out to win the season. You're gonna pass
up fourteen million dollars. That's like he acts, and I
think his side, they think they got a bunch of leverage.
There aren't a bunch of teams with a lot to
give back. There was one, the Browns. The Niners like

(44:58):
that offer Amari Cooper in the second round pick, and
then he's like, no, well, you can't ask for a trade.
This is in the NBA. You're not gonna dictate all
the terms here. And I think that's what's made him
mad and the forty Niners mat because he won't play
ball like we're offering you a ton of money. You're
immediately gonna be the highest paid player on a highly
paid team. So yeah, DJ Morris, these guys make more,

(45:18):
They do more for their team in terms of production.
That's never gonna Kyle Shanahan's not gonna start playing like
Andy Reid, right, That's not how they're gonna play. They're
gonna run the ball. I think in a perfect world,
party has like twenty six past attempts a game. That's
what they're shooting for. They're not trying to play like
forty three times. He's like, well, I could be a

(45:39):
star receiver. Well, on this team, you're willing to pay you,
and you're gonna thrive and you can make a ton
off This is the forty nine Ers are top two
or three brand in the league. He makes a ton
off the field.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I do wonder because of the first round receiver the
Niners picked, if they do sign Iuk, who is a
deep threat, That's not what Deebo does.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
He's yack.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
He's yards after the catch, which Kittle is. I do
wonder when they drafted two receivers. Both can play the slot.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
They're both hurt especially the problem there all the time them.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I can see this team moving off some of their
guys like a Ligne, not Warner, but Greenlaw. I think
they're getting to a point with Kittle. You know, Travis Kelcey.
Before the playoffs, we were like, I don't know, ten surgeries,
I don't know. Then he was great in the playoffs.
But I do think Kittle, they're going to have to
move off some contracts here. And I kind of look

(46:32):
at the Kittle thing. I look at the debo thing,
because there's they're guys that play, and I love both,
and they feel like they're DNA that they're they're really
they feel like the Niners. But if you pay Ayuk,
it does change things because he's a legitimate deep threat,
and I think it changes the personality of your team
a little bit. If you're paying him twenty five John,
I'm throwing the ball to him.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Part of why I think the Amari Cooper won. I
think they thought it could be a plug and play
transition between the two players. His contracts also up at
the end of this season, so they get to reset
that number. It just disappears on them, So they like
the economic flexibility of that when because it's not just
we talked about the year average. You put seventy eighty

(47:15):
guaranteed to this guy. You are in bed with him
now for the next three or four years, on top
of haying party, on top of having to figure out
your left tackle situation. Trent's getting older. If George were
to fall off a cliff, you need a tight end.
He's very important in this offense. Fred's got a lot
of wear and tear. Greenlaw has a torn achilles. You
just got big picture question marks. And when you go

(47:37):
all in on a player, you go, is he a
top eight wide receiver in the league. Well, if you
even have to question that, should you be breaking them
off a massive contract. The problem is they would trade him,
but all these teams don't want to trade for him
because they don't want to meet his demands either. So
that's where they're kind of stuck in this weird spot.
And let's face a colin, I would say they have

(48:00):
do they have the most drama going on? I mean
they got this IUX situation that is not figured out.
Trent Williams a holdout they have. They just had to
cancel their their joint practices they were supposed to with
the Saints because they have to called Dennis Allen's like,
we got too many injuries. It's then God is August eleventh.
But they got a lot going on.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
No, And I said this at the end of the season.
I said, I think they've peaked. That doesn't That's not
bad because their peak is Super Bowl. But I do
feel like the Lions are a younger version of the Niners,
where they've got like six guys, you know, pene Sewel,
amar On, Saint Bount, Gibbs, Goff, Hutchison, the center, the

(48:42):
tight end. I kind of feel like when I'm watching
the Lions, they're the Niners four years ago and in
Detroit's gonna have this four year run and they're not
you know, they're not paying all of their guys yet.
But the Lions, like the Niners are, are really physical.
It's the Dan Campbell thing. It's a different physical, different style,

(49:05):
but it's like they're gonna punish you.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
So I kind of.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Feel like what we've seen of the Niners is you're
gonna start seeing guys breakdown. And I really do believe
Philly and Detroit, but mostly Detroit feels like the next
Niners with better quarterback play or at least more talented quarterback.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
I think where the Niners would push back go we
got a better coach than them all, and we know
how important trait is in the NFL, and that does
their coaches like McVeigh liking. I mean, they got an
elite coach. So when you have that, you can overcome
an injury here and there that other teams when they
got more of the raw ross CEO head coached. They
asked Kyle yesterday. One of Kubiak's kids is on his staff.

(49:42):
He let him call place and Kyle said it was
the most bored he'd ever been in the game. I
didn't even know what's new with my hands. I started
thinking a lot. It's one like obviously John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh,
Belichick for a long time have mastered the CEO approach.
But some of these coaches that are being they're not
doing that much more than mir or you on the

(50:03):
couch or a fan. I mean, seriously, like Kyle said,
I called a couple of times out, I wasn't doing anything.
I wasn't doing anything. And that's the thing with Philly,
right that article that came out last week. You just
wonder they have so much talent, can they get by.
I think their coordinators are good, but if things get weird,
if you question, people are always going to disagree with

(50:26):
a boss, with a coach. We're humans. When I question
or I lose respect for you because I don't think
you have the knowledge. I don't know if you ever
come back from that. In a professional setting, if there's
a superior and I think this guy is incapable of
either helping me out or knowing what he's doing, that
doesn't change because it's not a twelve year old. You

(50:49):
don't all of a sudden gain that ability at forty
eight or fifty four like you kind of have to
have it. That's why you're in that position. And when
people under you, especially in highly competitive areas like Wall
Street or what we do, or definitely football. If Jalen
Hurts questions his football acumen, can you imagine a quarterback

(51:10):
for the top coaches questioning like I don't think Andy
knows this coverage at all, or someone with Belichick. That's
that'd be unheard of, And that's maybe they can overcome
just because they have so much talent. But that's something
to keep in the back pocket if things go south
or they had a little adversity that'll that'll come back
to roost, won't it. Well.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Go to his opening press conference, he was literally he
was word salid. He was terrified.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
It was Tom sue two point zero.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, I mean, like Jim Tom Suell. It's the worst
press conference I've ever seen. Nick siri on his second
and I defended Dan Campbell's I said Dan was over
the top, but he had a plan and he's delivered
on the plan. They bite knee caps. I mean, remember
the first two years when they weren't winning, John, they
weren't winning. I mean, their defense was the worst in
the league. They played so effing hard. They played a

(51:58):
game against Baltimore. I remember one watching and thinking, I
don't have four guys that start for the Ravens, and
they were just back and forth. So you can say
what you'll know at Campbell and I was like, this
is cheesy. But they are exactly what he promised they
would be at the podium opening presser, like he said,
We're going to be relentless. That's exactly what they are.
Even with Golf who's a finesse player, they're pretty relentless team.

(52:21):
Siriani was just lost. Tom Sula was embarrassing. And at
the end, now I have a story that comes out
multiple sources from somebody I respect at ESPN says, yeah,
they don't really respect him. I'm with you on that.
I mean, I've been very lucky in my life. I've
had good bosses. I've had one that you know, we

(52:42):
had a nickname for him. He just didn't know what
he was doing. And though I liked him, I never
looked at him the same way. I just if he
came down the hall, good guy, let's get a coffee.
Wasn't somebody I respected? So to your point, and remember,
Jalen Hurts has had Nick Saban and Lincoln Riley, So

(53:03):
those those are the voices he has heard in his life.
And I don't know it was Sark the offensive coordinator
when he was at Alabama. I forget who it was,
but it was somebody like kippin her Sark. Wasn't that somebody?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
It would have been one of the two. They definitely overlapt.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Okay, Okay, so you're talking about high and luxury offensive coordinator.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Talk ran da Ball was there one year, two okay, okay,
so now now three of them now okay, So you're
let's just say we go.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
You know, Sarker, Dable, Lincoln, Shane Steichen. Now he's got
none of them, and it's Nick Sirianni. So who's he
competing with? Again, It'd be one thing if he had
bad coordinators. Nick Sirianni would feel like a football coach.
Lincoln Riley, Shane Steichen. And now it's Sirianni's voice. So

(53:52):
I think Jalen may be going you start looking around
in your life, my life, you have one or two
great bosses, you know, you spot the guys that aren't
great real quick.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah. I mean when I worked in radio, Jason Barrett,
who you've known for a long time, he left and
we hired a new guy and he was just a
complete buffoon and it was a disaster and the place
almost went under. But when you don't respect someone who
you have to listen to, and it's no different as
a player, like a lot of people listening that they

(54:22):
have a boss when you were you're going to disagree.
That's healthy. There's no growth at a little confrontation. But
when I think you know nothing or at the level
in which I'm accustomed to, it's hard to function. So
when that part of that article that he called wink Martindale,
I think a lot of it. And my first thought
was like, God, it's kind of a go getter, and
then you started thinking about I think he just lost.
He's like, who do I even talk to? Right? I

(54:44):
just need to talk to someone who might give me
some decent advice here of some schematic help. And that's
what I wonder with Siriani. And listen, the Eagles do
a couple of things really well. One they just acquire
good players, and two, their owner will spend a lot.
Their two coordinators are making and combined, I've heard a
lot of money. I mean, Vic Fangil might be the

(55:05):
highest Bay defensive coordinator in the league, and Kellen Moore's
numbers closer to five million than it is one. So
they're paying their two They're paying their two coordinators a
lot of coin. But those guys they're gonna run it right,
Sire Howani even in that article is like, get away
from Kellen and the quarterbacks. Well, he's an offensive guy.
How many offensive coaches? That's why I have so much
respect for Lafloor. What he did with Rogers was impressive,

(55:27):
but it was easy to go with Rogers great players,
and what he did with Jordan love Is makes you
like you're gonna get contract extensions for a long time. Right.
Mcveigh's worked with several quarterbacks. Kyle's worked with a ton
of quarterbacks, and he can coach any quarterback. I'm watching
this guy. I thought he's an offensive guy, but the
quarterback doesn't even like him. And by all accounts he

(55:48):
can be clearly Jalen's a little weird, little quirky, but
he's clearly like a good guy and wants to pluy
and like is an all about football guy, and he
thinks your weakness is I would say the most thing
for a coach schematics. In the NFL, we're college recruiting.
The Jimmy's and the Joe's scheme matters. But if I
have the more talent, like I'm just gonna boat race

(56:09):
ninety percent of the teams, I'm gonna play football Monday
through Saturday. In the NFL is a thinking man sport.
It's about trying to outthink, outplay out chest maneuver you.
It's why Urban Meyer, who's used to recruiting and everything,
got to it was just it wasn't this thing. Jim
Harbaugh would be the first to tell you, like, I'm
very dependent on great I can do the leadership, I

(56:30):
can do the toughness, but scheme's not his thing, but
he hires great coaches because scheme in the NFL, it's
it's just working fifteen eighteen hours a day Monday through Saturday,
getting ready for Sunday. And I don't know what Siriani doing. Honestly,
I don't know the answer, like tangibly, like you see
Dan Campbell, you see what he's doing. You feel his team,

(56:52):
John Harbaugh his whole career, you feel it, even if
he's not calling on inside the ball. But now I
question his is, like I what's going on here? They
were kind of stuck because it was because people go
back to two years ago, could you fire him for
Shane Stike? And that would have been a pretty unprecedented move,
right going to the Super Bowl firing the coach for
the other guy. Clearly today they wish they could have,

(57:12):
but that it would have been difficult. And then last
year they were definitely sniffing around, but they were kind
of stuck. And this goes back to Luckily their owner's
got a lot of money and willing to pay a
lot for coordinators.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Listen, Tom Tellskill told me when Shane Steichen was in
the building with the Chargers and Anthony Lynn was struggling,
like I asked him and he said, Amen, that guy's
a rock star. But you, to your point, Anthony Lynn was.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
A nice guy.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
You got to give him a shot, Stike and gets
an upgrade. What you propose, I think happens a lot
where you bring in a coordinator, you don't really love
the coach, but you're not ready to dump him, and
you sit there for a year and the GM and
the owner. The GM is telling the owner the smarter
coach is the coordinator, but get rid of this guy yet.

(58:00):
So I think what you're proposing, I think those conversations
happen once a year somewhere in this league.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Well, don't don't mean this guy earned a little street
cred last year because he's taken a lot of shit,
rightfully so. But Mike McCarthy goes all take over the
play calling and obviously didn't. The season didn't end well,
but there's no disputing that the season went really well
as an offensive play caller, and clearly McCarthy's winning a
bunch of games, Like, I don't know how this season
is gonna go. You would probably lean, if you're a

(58:26):
betting man, Mike McCarthy will not be the coach after
the season just because are they going to make the
NFC Championship game. But he's kind of proven that he's
more than capable as an offensive play caller. Yeah, leader,
like he's he's a real NFL coach.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, I mean, let's let's be honest. Cooper Rush went
like five and one, he's won.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
It looked pretty good today.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah, I mean so uh Trey Lance for I mean
Trey Lance and San Francisco didn't work.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
He's okay, you know little I'm not putting that one
on Mike. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
But I mean in the end, you can go look
at virtually every quarter that has played with Mike McCarthy
in his career, starters or backups. You know, Dalton was washed,
but I would side to that. Everybody is. I always
look at this. Everybody kind of played there, Shane Steichen.
Every quarterbacks played their best. Well, the same thing for

(59:18):
Mike McCarthy. He got you know that he had, didn't
he get thirteen and three out of five one of
those years was seven year as a coach.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
So my thing, my thing is if this let's say
they go nine to eight and they're the seventeen and
they lose a while, whatever, is he not worth getting
a job somewhere else if he is fired? I mean,
look at half these coaches in the league, like I
actually think Mike McCarthy has more than rebuilt his equity
in his name and honestly had pretty impressive little run
here in Dallas. Well.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Also the advantage McCarthy has, let's say he wins ten
to eleven, it certainly feaes them. I think they're a
ten win team, matter twelve team. He walks out of there,
he can say in closed doors, Jesus, it's a shit
show with the owner, and Dak is what he is.
And I'm winning twelve games. Okay, you may not be

(01:00:10):
the coach on the market, you're one of seven. And
again McCarthy is marccarthy's classic. And you see this all
the time. We're somebody successful has a ring. It can
be in anything, but I mean, you know, Frank Vogel
has a ring. No, it's it is what he took
an Indiana team with Roy Hibbert, who I love by

(01:00:31):
the way. Personally that team didn't have any offense is
Paul George, Roy Hibbert and guys George Hill. I think
it played on that team and they gave the heatles
every year. Problems those series were. I mean, Lebron struggled
put Hibbert by the ten. Frank Vogel goes to Los Angeles.
I just saw Frank at dinner the other night in town.

(01:00:53):
Frank Vogels won a lot of basketball games in this league,
but it's the NBA. They all get fired if they're
not called Steve Kerr, s Poulter or Greg Popovich. So
I think McCarthy's one of those guys where you know
he can coach he needs. There's certain things he does
very very well. He comes across, you know a little
bit like you know, he looks outdated. He talks like
he's outdated. I mean he does. But to his credit,

(01:01:16):
he is on the right side of the ball, and
he wins about eleven games a year in his career.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
So say all plays and work with a quarterback and
he can lead. I mean, I think he's bringing a
lot to the table.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So do I Again, he may not be If he
may not be the like hardball. This year was the
top choice. He'll probably never be the top choice. But
if he's my number three pitcher, you can do worse
than Mike McCarthy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Well, if you flip flop coaches. If I told you
Sirianni was the head coach of the Cowboys and McCarthy
was the head coach of the Eagles, every single human
alive would pick the Eagles to win the division and
no one alive would pick the Cowboys and make the playoffs.
Great point.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
That's a great point, and we'll end it there. John Middlecuff,
former NFL Scout three and out boy, this this felt
like last season.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
That was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
That frickin flew What do we do? We did over
an hour?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
That flew baby back. Good see anybody you two calling,
have good week.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
the podcast, take a moment, rate and review

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Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bo Nix, Caleb Willams Shine In Preseason Debut, Aiyuk Holdout Drama, Sirianni Losing The Locker Room?

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Host

Colin Cowherd

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