This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, longtime NFL writer - and host of the Open Mike podcast -Mike Silver joins Colin to discuss what changed to make Dan Snyder sell the Commanders, if the Niners could deal Trey Lance before the start of the season, and how long Aaron Rodgers will play for the Jets.
Then, LeBron author Jeff Benedict joins Colin to discuss the behind the scenes mechanics of ‘The Decision’, the Knicks over-the-top failed pitch, why Pat Riley’s pitch struck the right note, how LeBron bounced back from the low point of a Finals loss to the Mavs, and the impact of his first meeting with Michael Jordan.
Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf joins Colin to discuss if the Lakers can take out the Grizzlies in a 1st round matchup, if the Kings have any shot for a 1st round upset of the Warriors, and if Luka Doncic is capable of playing with another star, and if his career is starting to mirror Carmelo Anthony’s.
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #Volume
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward Podcast.
Jeff Benedict, Boy, this was good. Author of the new
book Lebron, great insight into the decision and other major
turning points in Lebron's career. Oops Tonight host Jason Timpf
and I discussed big NBA topics, including why Luca maybe
turning into a headache for the MAVs, and Mike Silver
(00:36):
and I discuss what is reportedly the end of the
Dan Snyder era in Washington. All Right, my buddy, Mike Silver,
part of the volume, longtime NFL reporter writes for Ballely
Sports in the San Francisco Chronicle, actually begin going to
be doing some warrior games since he knows Steve Kerran
(00:56):
knows hoops, which is great. We'll get into that in
a second. Daniel Snyder, it's hard to ruin a great brand, right,
Like Donald Sterling was a bad human, but that was
never a great brand, right. Robert Sarver did all he
could to ruin the Suns, but it wasn't a huge
national brand. Seventies, eighties, nineties, Washington was the Packers. I
(01:20):
mean they were when I was a kid growing up.
They were the franchise after Dallas and the Steelers, and
it's such a great fan base, exactly, exactly, So a
lot of people felt, despite the harassment charges, that the
owners would support Dan Snyder and he would just figure
out a way despite bad pr to hang around. Any
(01:44):
insight to what possibly happened.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, I think one thing that happened is that one
of his own publicly started talking about maybe kicking about
And I know jimmers say really really well. I admire
his conviction. He goes against the grain at times. It's
possible Jim Rsay just spoke honestly and from his heart.
It's also possible that Jim Ersay had had some conversations
(02:11):
with other owners who said, you know what, we agree
with you, and if you say that, you know you'd
have our at least quiet support. But that was not
insignificant when Jimmersay started public you know, came out publicly
and said, yeah, I don't know, maybe we should get
rid of this guy. Jim Ersay has three daughters, He's
(02:32):
very close to him. He didn't like the way that
the allegations against Stan Schneider were selling NFL owners and
the league. You know, prior to that it had been thought, well,
a lot of owners have skeletons. Trust me, I worked
for them.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
For eight years. Trust they do.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Whole other podcast topic. But you know a lot of
owners have skeletons, and a lot of owners more charitably
and have people come out of the woodwork to accuse
them of things that maybe aren't totally accurate. But they
didn't want to open that can of worms where you know, okay,
if accusations happen, it sets the stage for these right franchises.
(03:16):
They want to be generational that while we've been on
this podcast that you know, each one is appreciated and
another one hundred thousand dollars or something. You know, they
didn't want to open that can of worms. And remember
Jerry Richardson faced some pretty serious allegations just passed away recently.
That problem got solved because he was older and he
(03:38):
was just done. He was like, you know what, fine,
I'm out. And they didn't have to the NFL owners
didn't have to deal with it. The NBA solved the
problem twice by throwing money at the problem. Essentially a
having the balls Adam Silver on his first day on
the job to say you're out. Donald Sterling, whether it's
constitutional or not, and then a giant offer from Steve
(04:01):
Ballmer and again with the suns that happened with Starvers.
So you know, this is a little bit of all
of that. Daniel Sider wasn't going to make it easy
and walk away, but I think once he heard Jim
Mersey say that, he realized, man, something has turned.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Now the next least popular owner is Jimmy Haslam, who
infuriated owners for another reason, an egregiously bad fully guaranteed
contract to Deshaun Watson. So if we had a ranking
of least popular owners among other billionaire owners, Haslam now
(04:41):
is number one.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Right, Well, that's so cool that you broached that because
I used to do owner rankings.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
As far as I know, I'm the only one i've.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I did them annually for SI dot com and then Yahoo,
and of course they were my rankings about who I
thought were doing the best jobs of owning teams.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But that actually has my wheel.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Spinning, like what about an insighty odor rankings of which
owners are the most hated among the other owners. And
you know, you bring up a good point, but I
think in the end, you know, yeah, that frustrated other
owners that Jimmy Haslam did that because now we got
to deal with this guarantee contract stuff. And other owners
(05:26):
didn't like it when David Tepper came in and gave
Matt Rule. Sounds weird in retrospect, but gave Matt Rule
all that money because it messed up the coaching contract market.
But I feel like owners get over that stuff, you know, eventually,
but the you know what owners can't get over allegations
have proven and maybe we'll never know that one owner,
(05:49):
Daniel Snyder, allegedly cooked the books and screwed them out
of their share of the gates. That's less forgivable, you
know for the billionaire set. So yeah, they tend to
stick together. They tend to not want to set precedents like, oh,
a couple of accusations could knock Xoder out of the
(06:10):
league and make them lose this incredible investment. But you know,
Daniel Snyder put them through the rigger in a lot
of ways, and Ers, possibly knowing that he spoke for
a larger contingent, was kind of like, Okay, this is
this is a nightmare. Look if the Colts play the Commanders,
(06:33):
if they're still called that at the FedEx Field or
a new stadium, and Jim Orsay takes the field pregame
to Goschmouze. He should get like an adoring celebration and
a prolonged ovation from those Washington fans for a huge,
huge assist on getting Daniel Snyder the f out, because
(06:57):
heaven knows, it's been long coming and it's tough to
shed any tears.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So I want to talk about the Niners because you
have such in depth, you have tentacles all over that organization.
And by the way, increasingly when I follow your Twitter feed,
all your critics are lightening up because you've been right
so many times and broken so many stories. They are
like silver, I hate eh, whatever, what's the latest news.
So the trail ant stuff is interesting. I was talking
(07:23):
to Jordan Palmer the other day and he's like, you know,
if you look at the offense San Francisco runs, a
lot of these plays are scheme to succeed. Sam Donald's
going to have the best protection, the best weapons, the
best coach he's ever had. And we know he's a big, strong,
athletic kid and coachable and hard working. He's just not
accurate enough. But this system makes you more accurate. Don't
(07:44):
be shocked if Jimmy Garoppolo is not nearly as good
with the Raiders as he was with the Niners. So
brock Purty, I think the franchise likes a lot and
Sam Donald are in house. We all know at some point,
and I think the Niners are, and even some of
the sound and some of the quotes from your articles,
they're going to move off something if they missed. They're
(08:05):
not going to try to double down on wrong. Let's
just be honest. Could Trey Lance be moved before the season.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
He could, but I believe that brock Purty's injury and
the uncertainty that still surrounds his recovery made that much
much less likely. Before the playoffs, I wrote and reported
it's over. Brock Purty's the guy because they want to
go with this model where they pay everybody and have
(08:34):
the quarterback on the rookie deal. Yeah, that's what That's
what trading for that pick was about. That's what drafting
Lance was supposed to be about. And with Purdy, the
model is even better. You're not even allowed to reopen
his contract for two more years. It's even cheaper than
Trey Lance's deal, and he showed Kyle Shanahan. You know,
people are like, well, how can you say Perdy. I'm like,
(08:55):
I'm not saying that. Kyle believes it based on what
he saw for Purdy the guy. So going into that
Philly game for the Conference championship, the only thing that
kuld of derailed that plan was what happened. If Rock
Party had broken his leg, it would have been brutal
and it would have hurt and it would have sucked.
But they would have been like, fine, he'll come back.
(09:16):
It's because of what happened to was throwing elbow. You're
not totally sure. A you're not sure when, and B
you're still not positive that it's going to be like
it was before. And I have PTSD because a lot
of my Twitter critics probably weren't born when I was
right about the Joe Bontana Steve Young stuff. But Joe
(09:38):
Bontana missed basically two seasons after elbow surgeries, and he
did come back after that. It'd have two really really
good years with the Chiefs, but nothing is promised, and
so I think because of that, it gives them an
opening to say, look, we knew Lance was going to
take a while to develop because he was raw. It's
(10:00):
taken longer. It didn't work when we just handed it
to him last year. We ended up having to bring
Garoppolo back as a hedge and ultimately turned the party.
But maybe we can develop him and use this offseason
to get him some more reps. And I don't know
if this offense makes you more accurate, because you're going
to have to be more accurate than or consistently accurate
(10:21):
than Trai Lance was before he got hurt last year.
But you know, there's still a lot of things to
potentially like about him. So I believe what they'll do
is they'll say, look, party's not going to be here
till at least the start of the season, maybe longer.
We're gonna split reps between Lance and Dartl's see how
they react, see what we have. Basically, if one of
(10:44):
them has to start the opener, it's the guy we
think gives us the best chance to win. And I
think one thing that people are missing here is that
when they say, well, they're going to trade Trey Lance
and admit their mistake, Yeah, eventually they're going to admit
their mistake. If it was a mistake, but they're not
fielding offers to get back in the first round for
(11:04):
Trey Lance. And I know it only takes one team,
but if they trade Trey Lance, now, I think it's
for a three or something. And so I just don't
think you have urgency too. You don't know about Purdy,
you'd like another option, you'd like to see if you
can develop a more because you do have a lot
of vested in them. You're not paying them a lot,
and you can always move them, you know, a year
(11:27):
from now, if it goes the way you wanted to
with Purdy, and possibly if it does with Darnold. So
I think if someone called them and said we will
give you it too, like something, they thought.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Oh take a second, yeah they yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I think if someone calls and says we'll give you
a three for Trey Lance, they go three. Let's see,
we currently have ninety six picks in the third round.
Not all these guys are going to make our team.
I mean, I just don't think. I think I'd rather
have a chance to, you know, develop of this offseason.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Maybe they will.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I don't even think they'll necessarily get off for a
three right now. But listen, if he goes out and
looks good in the preseason and possibly earlier the season,
they could get a lot more for him a year
from now.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So you went to cal Aaron Rodgers did. But Aaron
Rodgers has gotten a little bit more indifferent and critical
of the media over the last several years. And I
said this on the show today. There's a lot of
reports now that this thing won't get done Jets and
Packers until after the draft. So Green Bay does have
a need at tight end that's fairly urgent. They'll probably
(12:36):
draft a tight end in the first round. They need
another receiver, pretty thin and young at receiver. They'll go
that in the second round. But the roster is good,
not great, but it's good. It's not San Francisco, it's
not Philadelphia. I don't think it's as good maybe as
you know a Buffalo or as you know the top
teams in the AFC.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
But it's a good roster. I believe that.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Aaron if he just came out and just said guys,
I'm in for two years minimum, it would be over.
You could then the Jets would be like, Okay, we
know it, you know it. But I said this today,
and I've been critical of Aaron. But Aaron's too smart
to not know that once you take the most money,
(13:18):
you won't have the best roster. He took the money.
He's too smart to think, yeah, two rookie receivers, I'm
not going to work with him in the off season.
That'll work great. I honestly think that we all make
choices on what matters to us. You have a great family,
great friends in your career. You have prioritized those and
they're all strong. Some people care about their careers, some
(13:41):
people care about social life somewhat less stress. Aaron's made
a decision, in my opinion, and winning. Second, what he
wants is control over the media, over situations, over the Packers.
That he could end all this bullshit. He can end
the drama.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
If you just said two years I'm in, I'll think
about a third. Why doesn't he do that?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Well, first of all, I've also made some bad decisions
in terms of priorities, specifically continuing to root for cal
which is you know, no, and I joke, but you know, charitably,
for Aaron, I would say this, he said he was
thinking about retiring, you know, very seriously recently. That's what
(14:25):
he you know, will take up at his word. It's
I think it's better not to say I'm in for
two years if you're not sure that you are. And sure,
he could say I'm in for two years and you know,
by December be like, oh, I'm you know, this is terrible,
I'm out here. But maybe it's to his credit that
he's not sure he's in for two years. And listen,
(14:47):
I know I know from talking to my sources that
the Jets understand that there's a scenario where he only
plays one and they are not telling the packers, sorry, man,
we take it or leave it. What they're saying to
the packers is, look, man, you know if it comes
(15:07):
and he plays one year, we give up all this
That seems kind of skewed. Is there a mechanism in
this trade where if that happens, we get something back
after he retires? And I think that's you know, they
consider that a reasonable request. So yeah, Aaron can end
that if he just said I'm in for two But
maybe it's to Aaron's credit that he's not saying that
(15:29):
because he's just not sure.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Your guess how long you would play with the Jets.
I think it's too you know, Aaron's career, first year
as a starter in Green Bay, first year with Hackett,
it has taken him usually because I've been told he's
not a big grinder in the off season like a
Brady A. Peyton or Russell Wilson, that Aaron's second year
is usually the year he pops. Well, I don't think
(15:52):
he wants to do a one walk off and be average.
I think he wants to end. It's good for his legacy,
it's good for money, it's good. I think he wants
to have a reviable year and I don't think his
first year, frankly is going to be great.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But he doesn't consider this year one, first of all,
Year one with Hackett on la floor was a whole
new scheme and that I believe that was a legitimate adjustment.
By the way they got to the NFC Championship game.
He did not have a great statistical year, but they
went thirteen to three and got to the FFC Championship game.
But I think the way that he and the Jets
are thinking of this is this is essentially year four
(16:33):
after a gap, because it's Hackett, and because it's that offense,
and it's not like Hackett plus Lafloor. By the way,
Att Haacket plus Sola, who's like you run the offense,
I'm you know, I'll keep an eye on my specialty,
which is defense. So if you believe that Aaron and
Hackett are now resuming a very fruitful partnership that won
(16:54):
consecutive MVPs their next two years together, and it's the
Jets receipts and other players who are going to have
to adjust to that, Aaron may not think it's he.
Aaron probably thinks I'm going to just be rolling for
the get go. But going back to what you said earlier,
just as he made a decision not to work with
(17:15):
the new receivers a year ago, when clearly, as Patrick
Mahobes could tell you, that was an important thing to
do for winning, I think that's what you need to
look at. If this trade doesn't get done Draft weekend,
you will probably hear I suspect, Hey, it turns out
(17:36):
Aaron Rodgers and Garrett Wilson and Al Lazard and you know,
all those Jets targets are working out in La or somewhere,
and because there's nothing to stop him, you can't say
he's tampering. And you can't say Garrett Wilson's tampering. So
I think it is important to have to hit the
(17:58):
ground running at your and that that'll be the way
we know if there's no trade right away or the
next couple of weeks, I would expect we'll see him
and those guys for the Jets start to work together.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well. I'm very excited I get to talk to Jeff
Benedict after he finishes another absolutely consumable book. You know,
he wrote The Dynasty. The insight on the New England Patriots,
which is soon to be a documentary on Apple TV,
was tremendous. He co wrote the book with my friend
(18:35):
Armin Katayan Tiger Woods. And now the new book is
Lebron and it's the kind of in depth reporting and
context that you just don't get on certainly on shows
like mine, but you don't even get in like a
magazine article of some renowned It's such quality reporting. And
I thought I knew just about everything about Lebron, but
(18:57):
the details and the digging here is so fun. You
start the book, the topic is the decision, which for
years I defended Lebron on David Stern argued with me,
I'm like listen, he gave millions of dollars of the
Boys and Girls Club give me a break and Stern,
as you know, appalled is too strong but didn't like it.
(19:22):
So let's you start the book there. Maverick Carter, who
I know very well consider a friend, had some leverage
in creating this. Let's go back to the decision. People
may just remember the Jim Gray interview. It's quick. How
did it land for Lebron? Talk about the genesis of it.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Well, it's fantastic because Lebron had been he was being
courted for a year or longer by a handful of
teams that were pulling out all the stops to get him.
And you know, it was the question not just in
the NBA, but the question in sports that summer was
where is Lebron going to go? Or is he going
(20:05):
to stay in Cleveland? And the reason I decided to
open there is because, first of all, I was able
to get access to some information about that day and
that decision that has never really come out before. And
that's why I wanted to start the book. In a
car pulling out of the private airport in New York,
making its way through the back roads of Greenwich to
(20:27):
the home of the man who really Mark Dowley, who
helped put this together with Maverick, And I just thought
this gives the reader the opportunity to feel like they're
literally in the car with Lebron as he's en route
to make a decision in a part of the country
that most people have never been to. I mean, most
(20:48):
Americans have never been to Greenwich, Connecticut. And in a way,
it's a weird place when you think about it. Why
in the world would you choose Greenwich to make this announcement.
It's Nick's country, if anything, and if you were going
to go to the Knicks, Greenwich is an odd place
to go to do this. And so I wanted to
go there with the reader because I just thought it
allowed me to show so many things about Lebron at
(21:11):
that moment in his life. And I just love the
scenery of them getting out of the car and Greenwich
at this estate, Maverick and rich Paul, and they're flying
so high in that moment, they're so happy, they're so
almost in a way there is a naive ta about
what's about to happen, and they're so loose.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
And then in a couple of hours, all hell breaks.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It does take people listening now, because there is so
much depth to this book. You can give away a
lot and not give away a third of it. But
when did they realize something had gone poorly with the decision?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I think, you know, they started a sense that things
aren't great immediately after the decision was announced and the
initially ESPN broadcast had concluded, meaning the live event with
Jim Gray, and then Lebron had to do an interview
with Michael Wilbon who was in studio and doing a
(22:15):
remote interview with Lebron who was still in Greenwich at
the club, and the questions. One of the questions Wilbon
asked him was if he could see what was happening
in Cleveland. They were already burning his jersey, But it's
not till later that evening, before they've left Greenwich though,
(22:35):
to get on a private plane to go to Miami.
They hung around for a while. They actually went back
to Dowy's house and they were listening to music and
hanging out. And then Dan Gilbert's letter shows up on
the website and you're starting to go like wow, Like
(22:56):
the New York Times puts up a story that's referring
to the Evil Empire. And this is all happening in
real time and Twitter works now right, It's Twitter's fairly
new at this point, but it works, and the tweets
are coming from all over the place, not just sports people,
but people in entertainment, late night comedy. Everybody's piling on.
And so by the time Lebron and his inner circle
(23:20):
are in the air to fly to Miami, they know
it's bad. And I love how Rich Paul refers to
the quietest flight he'd ever been on with Lebron and Maverick.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So there was a sweepstakes, as you note, to get Lebron.
The Knicks had an interesting pitch, but Miami's landed. Tell
our audience why, and they're tact, which is to me
pat Riley's one of the smartest guys in league history.
Not a shock he hit the right notes. Yes, yeah,
(23:55):
I love. The reason I love the Knicks pitch is
because it's so New York and it's just so over
the top and so inappropriate in terms of what you
need to lure Lebron to your team. Lebron had so
much access to fame and glitz and glamour, that's not
(24:18):
what he was looking for. And he wasn't looking for
a billion dollars. He was looking for rings championships. And
so New York does this thing where they hire a
filmmaker who doesn't know anything about basketball. He didn't know
the difference between a basketball and a golf ball. And
so he goes out and brings in Jonathan Hawk, who
(24:39):
knows how to make a sports documentary, and they have
all the celebrities in New York City lined up, from
Harvey Weinstein to Reggie Jackson to Alec Baldwin, I mean,
Robert de Niro, everybody wanted in this documentary. And they
even got Donald Trump. They went up to Trump Tower
and got Trump to sit for an interview. Anybody they
(25:00):
interviewed is pitching lebron On White needs to come to
New York. To me, the best part of that whole
story and the smartest thing they did, was to go
get Tony Soprano out of retirement and to bring him
in to do a sketch at the end of the film,
and it's basically Dandal Feini getting back in that role
with Edie Falco. It was brilliant, and I told the
(25:21):
story through.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
The lens of Jonathan Hawk, who shot the interview in
Tony's apartment, and they pitch him and it's basically literally
the offer you can't refuse. And Lebron thought it was
funny because it was it was clever, it was funny,
but it wasn't right. And then Riley comes in and
Riley's last and Riley brings in a bag of rings
(25:45):
and he puts him on the table and you know,
Lebron asks him what's in there, and he dumps him
out and there is championship rings that he's won everywhere,
and it's what Lebron wants, and he has this really
important line to keep the main thing the main thing.
(26:07):
Lebron didn't know what that was in the moment, but
Maverick knew what it was because he'd read Steve and
Rcovey's book and certainly understood what Riley was saying. And
the main thing in Miami with pat Riley is winning championships,
and he knew that that was the main thing for Lebron.
(26:28):
And I just thought, wow, like these two contrasts the
Knicks in the heat. So the Miami story is four years,
two championships. I think the arc of many of our lives.
Is the hardships come before the titles or the runs. Right,
(26:51):
We've all struggled in our life. Lebron struggles are the
struggles of the greatest basketball player evert The decision dinged
them a little bit. But Miami was Miami felt like
it was going to work very quickly. You had the
smart owner, pat Riley, a young, brilliant young coach. You
had d Wade Haslam, the culture, and then he loses
(27:13):
to the Mavericks and for the only time in his
career looked afraid on the court. That was a real
turning point for Lebron. Talk about that, it's a huge
turning point. I would say, it's not really a disagreement
with you. But I think the decision did more than
Dingham because the ramification of the decision is he is
(27:37):
the villain of American sports. His first year in Miami,
he hated and anyone who was in Cleveland. I was
not there the night that Lebron returned to Cleveland, but
I interviewed people who were It was violent. I mean
it was scary. People who were on that team said
they were afraid. The security in the arena. People that
(27:57):
were there to protect the Miami players. They had never
seen or felt anything like that at an American sports event.
That first year in Miami for Lebron, I think was
different because Lebron likes to be liked and he was
hated that year. And then on top of that, they
were supposed to win and they didn't win, and I
think that's what plunged Lebron into a dark period. The
(28:21):
summer after losing to Dallas is the darkest period of
Lebron's career for him personally, and it's really a moment
of self discovery where he's locked away in Miami. He
doesn't want to talk to anybody, not family, not friends.
He's listening to certain kinds of music, and really when
he comes out of that, it's interesting when he comes
(28:42):
out of that. I just thought it was interesting that
one of the first people he saw when he came
out of that was Bono in Miami, who had come
YouTube was there touring, and he had some private time
with Bono backstage. I just thought it was interesting because
I was thinking to myself as a writer, Bono's probably
one of the only people on the planet who could
(29:05):
actually say in that moment, I've been through more than you.
I know what this is like, Like I've been in
worse spots than you because I've been doing this longer
and I'm a world around rockstar. And I'm sure he
didn't say those things to Lebron, but there aren't many
people Lebron can get in a room with who could
actually say I've been to these places that you're in
(29:26):
right now. And he comes out of that, and Dwayne
Wade has a big part of him coming out of that,
because that's when they have the conversation about this needs
to be your team. It's sort of like it's okay
to take over, you need to dominate. This is my
city and my team in my town. But we're not
going to win unless you take the reins and boy,
(29:48):
the next season, Lebron's the scariest player in the NBA.
I mean, everyone's afraid of him. You don't want to
play this team and that guy, and I think the
next three years to me, those are the scary Lebron hears.
Let's go back to you talk about in the book.
There's obviously great debate. Lebron now starts stacking up championships
(30:13):
in Miami and the Michael Jordan. Stuff really starts to
become a comp and nobody had really ever challenged Michael Jordan.
It was just Russell.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Early, then Kareem, then Magic. Then you know, you kind
of got ten years to yourself as the greatest player ever.
And all of a sudden after the second title, people
start talking about, Wow, this guy is different. Yes, but
in his early days in high school Jeff nobody talked
about Michael Jordan. Their games were different, Their personalities are
(30:46):
completely different. One is much more hyper aggressive, much more
the score not necessary, not necessarily ever conciliatory or considered
about your feelings. Lebron's comp was not my as you.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Noted, Yeah it is, because it's interesting you reference that
high school years. One of my favorite scenes in this well,
I'm going to say two of them, because they're kind
of coupled. It's Whenick Maverick goes back. He leaves college
after one year, right realizes he's not going to play
in the NBA, goes back to Akron to go to
(31:22):
school and to work with Lebron and help Lebron and
navigate those tenuous high school years coming up for him.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Andy starts coaching his AAU.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Team and they go to Chicago in the summer, and
one of the guys from Jordan's Jim, who works with
Michael Jordan trains with him, approaches Maverick and invites him
and Lebron to come to Michael's Jim in Chicago, and
they go. Michael's not there, but they go and they
check it out, and it's like they've entered that sort
of celestial space where Michael Jordan trains. It's a private
(31:53):
place not anybody can go, and other NBA players who
are active in the league go there to train and run.
Remember Michael's retired right now, but they go there, and
one of the things that Lebron gets to do is
he gets to scrimmage run with these NBA players, guys
like Antoine Walker, big time players, big bodies, playing with
(32:16):
a teenager. And for the first time, the floor looks
different to Lebron, it's a different floor. And that's why
that chapter is called a different Floor. It's the same
dimensions of the floor that he plays on at Saint VI's,
except everything's different. The passing lanes are more narrow because
(32:38):
the guys are so much bigger. Their arms are longer.
When they put their arms out the routes to the
basket just aren't there that he sees in high school games.
It's all different for him. And that is a huge
eye opening experience for him. And one thing happens. He
can't guard anybody in those scrimmages. They're too good, they're
(33:00):
too fast, the too big. He can't guard them. But
he can score against these guys, which is phenomenal. He
can score buckets with some of the best NBA players
and he's only in high school. That's really important. And
then here's the second part. Later they go back there
and they're there and they're about to leave, and they
(33:24):
go outside and Marten pulls up in a red sports car.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
And gets out.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Now at this moment, Michael knows he's coming out of retirement,
but nobody else knows that. He hasn't announced it yet,
And so he gets out. The coolest athlete in the
world gets out of the car and approaches Lebron. He
knows who Lebron is, and Lebron certainly sees who he is.
(33:52):
This is his idol, this is the guy whose posters
are on his bedroom walls. It's the guy whose number
he wears. And now they're in a conversation, and Michael
invites him back inside and they talk and Michael doesn't
give him advice, because Michael's not that kind of guy.
But it doesn't matter. It's what he did give him
(34:14):
was he gave him his cell phone number, which to
me is a lot more important than advice because of
what it says to Lebron. Michael doesn't give his phone
number out to anybody. Lebron's now one of the few
people in America who has Michael Jordan's cell phone. And
when he leaves Chicago that night, by the way, Colin,
the next day is the first day of school at
(34:35):
Saint fee, Maverick's got to race him home because he's
got to be in school the next day, and in
his pocket he's got Michael Jordan's phone number. And he
wrote in his journal about that and about how cool
that experience was. And to me, what did Michael think
of Lebron in that moment? Did he really think that
Lebron was actually going to threaten him as the potential
(34:59):
greatest player of all time time? I don't know, Probably not,
because he was still a kid and he was very
encouraging to him at that moment. But Obviously, as time
goes on, and it doesn't take long. By the time
you get to Game five against Detroit, you know, like
this guy is actually that guy, like he is the future.
(35:22):
He is that good and there isn't anyone else like him.
And so I just think that Michael Jordan origin stories
with Lebron, they're real, and there's some of the most
interesting parts of Lebron's story.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
I'm really intrigued with this Memphis matchup. It makes a
lot of sense for the Lakers on a couple of
different levels. The Memphis Grizzlies are a team that play
a lot of guys that typically don't shoot very well, right,
John Murray, you can go underneath screens. Dylan Brooks has
been shooting well for a couple of weeks, but he's
a guy that I guarantee you Darvin Ham's gonna dare
to shoot. And then obviously in the front court with
Steven Adams out, with Brandon Clark gout, yeah, looking at
(36:00):
Xavier Tillman or Jaron Jackson there, Darvin Ham loves to
dare people to shoot, and I think this is a
series that actually bodes well for the Lakers there. And
then on the other end of the floor. Who is
the best surgical matchup hunting player and probably the history
of the NBA, Lebron James. And so he's gonna be
calling up John Morant to every single conceivable action. He's
(36:21):
gonna be get doing everything in his power to get
Dylan Brooks off of him or to get Anthony Davis
into favorable matchups. And obviously there's a long road ahead.
If they win, I think they're gonna face the Warriors
in round two. If they win that, there's a very
good chance they're gonna play Phoenix in round three. If
they win that, there's a very good chance you're gonna
get Boston or Milwaukee at the end of that. So
(36:42):
it's a very long road. It's a lot to put
on Lebron James and Anthony Davis physically.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But here's the deal.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
You made it to the playoffs, ish, and you're probably
gonna be a slight favorite in round one. I'd call
that a resounding victory compared to where we were before
the deadline.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well, the other thing is Memphis isn't Cleveland young or
ok C or Houston young. But Steven Adams is one
of the few guys with some playoff experience, and he's out.
So Memphis is fairly young, and I always felt this
year that you know, they're one of those teams built
(37:19):
for the regular season because they play hard and they
have depth, and you can win a lot of games
in this league off playing hard and having ten guys
that doesn't matter nearly as much. So now they get
smaller without Steven Adams plays right into Anthony Davis's hands,
and he's had the best two week stretch arguably since
he's been a Laker. If you take out the bubble,
he's been completely dominating.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Again.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
He didn't play particularly well today in terms of total points,
but down the stretch he had a couple of key baskets.
So I think you get a Memphis team that's smaller,
had injuries, young, and let's be honest, the job Morant
stuff still not great. So I if you say to me, Okay,
(38:06):
there's a team in the playoffs that could be a
little volatile of all of them, and I'd be like
Clippers because of Kawhi, you never know if he's going
to play Westbrook. They had a fight on their bench,
So like Clippers feel very vaulatle to me and I
think Memphis as a young one of the younger playoff teams.
Cleveland in the East is very young, but Cleveland doesn't
(38:27):
feel immature. Everybody in Cleveland knows exactly what they are
and what they do. Donovan Mitchell has already clarified their offense.
He takes the last big shot and everybody knows it.
Mobley's you're big, he's your young guy, but he knows
laden games. They all step aside for Donovan Mitchell. Memphis
has some egos, they're chatty. I think the Lakers win
(38:49):
that series.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
I really do it.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I think Anthony Davis is going to have a fantastic
series Without Steven Adams.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Memphis is very dangerous because they have guys that are
capable of knocking down shots. Like here's the think of
John Muran. Like we learned from last year's playoffs, Like
Desmond Bane really good, interesting player, excellent shooter, good defensive player,
can do some slashing, but he really struggled to beat
people off the dribble last year in the playoffs. That's
a concern. The playoffs in general will take your weakness
(39:18):
and shine the biggest magnifying glass. Yeah, that's what the
playoffs do the same thing with John Moran. It's hey, yeah,
you knock down pull up threes at thirty percent this year,
that's great. We are going to dare you to take
that this year to the point where we're going to
actually try to get into your head by making you
think you can't do it. That's the way that these
these especially these veteran playoff teams try to attack you
(39:40):
and make you feel uncomfortable, make you lack confidence, and
at the end of the day, like it all comes
down to the physical side of things, like Lebron James
has to hold up, Anthony Davis has to hold up.
But over the course of a playoff series, the team
that wins is usually the team that generates higher quality
shots in the half court. Who do you trust more
to get stops in the half court for seven games
(40:03):
Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves or you know,
John Moraet, Desmond Bayn, Dylan Brooks and Jared Jackson. And
then on the flip side of that, when Memphis has
to score against them, I just think I just think
the Lakers are going to get better quality shots over
the course of the series wouldn't be surprised if Memphis
jumped up to a one zero lead or a two
to one lead. But I think as the series progresses,
(40:24):
the older, more talented team in the Lakers is in
the best shape. I want to say this though I
am a big believer in what Golden State does, but yes,
Andrew Wiggins is back. However, he's a rhythm player who
has not played really intense competitive basketball for a while.
(40:44):
Had they fallen to seven and drawn that Memphis matchup,
I think Memphis would have beat them. That's how much
I view the importance of getting Andrew Wiggins up to speed.
So it is so critically important that they get this
series against Zacremento, a team who's very good and very
offensively skilled, as an excellent home court advantage. But they
(41:05):
are not the biggest and most athletic team in the world,
so Golden State, in their lack of athleticism, will have
less of a factor to play in that particular series.
And I don't know if you notice, but Golden State's
actually a minus two hundred favorite to win that series.
That's a pretty significant favorite. If they get out of
that series, that buys you from now three additional weeks
(41:27):
to get Andrew Wiggins up to speed for a potential
matchup with Memphis or LA, two massive teams that are
incredibly athletic and big, and at that point I feel
better about well.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
And Gary Payton just the other night got extended minutes.
So now Gary Peyton, you can put him on for
a good at sixteen minutes a night. Just put him
on Daron Fox and then put Klay Thompson, Dante de Vincenzo.
We've talked about this Golden State's absurdly deep in the
back court and very thin in the front court. But
(41:57):
Dearon Fox is their fourth court guy. I think he's
the best guard in the NBA and the fourth quarter
this year in terms of what they call crucial points.
So you know, I saw the other night Peyton played
like eighteen twenty minutes, and I'm like, that's exactly what
they wanted. So Wiggins isn't ready to go at that level.
And they'll have to massage that a little because Cominga's
(42:20):
finally now playing real minutes and they're gonna take them away.
So that's a weird, you know, confluence of events where
it's like we need Wiggins desperately, but you know, Kuminga's
actually started to put log in eighteen twenty twenty four
minutes and been productive. So now you got to peel
him back, so you got to massage that in the
locker room. And the chemistry has been weird with the
(42:40):
Warriors this year since the Draymond Jordan Poole inflammation. But
I like their matchup in the series. He throw a
lot of bodies at Fox. You know, Golden State will
have to win a road game, but this is almost
you know, it's a bus ride, and I also think
this they'll get the whistle. They know how to manipulate officials.
(43:02):
They know how to do the psychological manipulation. I mean,
Sacramento is like the little brother down the road to
the Dynasty, and you can see in spots them being
a little overwhelmed and the Warriors, you know, trash talking,
getting in their head and getting the favorable whistle the
Dynasty does in the first round. My entire life, I
(43:26):
don't think the league is rigged, but I do think
veteran teams manipulate officiating in the playoffs, where referees tend
to swallow the whistle. You're not going to get that
high octane offense that draws all those fouls. The Warriors
can slow it down, speed it up, they'll get the whistle.
So I think it's one of these series. It's a
(43:48):
really good series for Golden State. There were some real
worrisome matchups. Even the Lakers size could be a huge problem.
I think they locked down well. Again, the Warriors can
beat somebody with size. They just need Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Like when I say I would have picked Memphis to
win in the first round, that's one hundred percent and
Andrew Wiggins take like that. It's all associated with the
fact that he is so imperative to their athletic ceiling
that they need to compete in a series against that team,
giving them an extra three weeks from now to get there.
That's vitally important. The Sacramento this is a Gary Payton
series in my opinion, and the main reason why is
(44:27):
because Sacramento has killed teams all season, along with the
simple combination of deeron Fox and demand of Sabonis and
what they do with their dribble handoffs, and the problem
it presents for teams because you let deeron Fox get
downhill or if you switch it. Sabonis is one of
the best players in the league at beating switches to
the basket, and if he draws double teams, he's an
(44:47):
excellent passer. So what I like about the Golden State
matchup in that series is Draymond Green and Gary Payton.
Couldn't I couldn't conceive possibly mentally a better duo to
potentially handle those two guys. And this is again, what
an attribute, And this is why I actually love this
move from the deadline. What an incredible attribute to have
as a coach, a weapon in your pocket to be
(45:10):
able to deploy Gary Payton on the other team's best
guard and to know he's gonna be able to hold
that in check. I don't know if you noticed this
the other night, but the Warriors won the game against
Oklahoma City, a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. You
might have been scammed, but it was a tough fought
game against Oklahoma City, and in the fourth quarter of
that game, Gary Payton shut down shake Yield is Alexander
(45:30):
who's one of the best guards in this league. He
had a couple of buckets on switches and he drew
one foul, but for the most part, Gary Payton shut
him down and it was how Golden State pulled out
that game. He is one of the best guards in
the league to guard this specific type of matchup, partnering
that with Draymond Green. I love this matchup for the Warriors.
I would pick them to win in no more than
(45:51):
six games, but I'm leaning towards five. And for all
the Hoops Tonight listeners out there, We're going to do
a full breakdown of this series within the next couple
of days where we'll really dive into the x's and o's,
But I'm leaning towards picking the Warriors in five or six.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I think I would take the Warriors in six
suns four against the Clippers five. This again really plays
in the Phoenix's hand. So you know, Kevin Durant's gotten
several games off, so they're sitting him, and here you
have an inflamed bench situation where plumb Lee gets into
(46:23):
a fight. You're already asking Tylou, like, what do you
do with Westbrook? Now he's great in regular season production, Okay,
now we get into situational basketball.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Paul George isn't available. He would be huge in this series.
To defend Kevin Durant. So now I've got a little
bit of inflammation. How do I use Westbrook, who's not
been a great postseason player? What do I do with
Kevin Durant matchup like Memphis, There's some depth here, but
there's a lot to me. This could not in a
(46:56):
weird way Kevin Durant. Between getting hurt in warm ups
and now resting for the last couple of games, You're
getting the most rested, healthiest Kevin Durant in like years.
And I think Phoenix is going to be a handful
for the Clippers. I love Phoenix here.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah, you know, I'm really low on the Clippers in general, Colin.
I don't know how many times we have to go
into the season with everybody like preaching that they're one
of the favorites for them to not fulfill that, for
us to finally learn our lessons. They don't have good
rim protection, they don't have good playmaking, and that makes
that's two vitally important things that you have to have
(47:35):
to succeed in the playoffs. You know, this is this
is what the Clippers are. They are a team with
a bunch of wings that are wings in name only
that don't move as well as they used to.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
Right, I got a lot of guys.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Like Marcus Morris and Nick Batoum and Ry Covington, guys
that once upon a time would have been vital, important
playoff pieces, but they're just not that anymore. And Covington's
out of the rotation. Marcus Morris has been hurt, but
Toom's okay, you know, but every the problem is they
without Paul George, they simply do not have enough shot creation. Right,
There's three guys on the team that can create their
own shot Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook and Norman Powell. And
(48:07):
Norman Powell's runs hot and cold. I mean, obviously he
destroyed the Lakers the other day, but he runs hot
and cold. Russell Westbrook, the game has to be going
a very specific type of way for him to have impact.
And as good as Kawhi Leonard is and he's made
strides as a playmaker, he's a pull up shot maker.
Like he doesn't pressure the rims super well, and he's
not the best passer in the world. So it's like, yeah,
he'll get you his thirty by knocking down his pull
(48:28):
up jump shots. But He's not a guy that can
really carry an offense over the course of a game.
And so what they really are is a team that
doesn't have a lot of shot creation. They're a good team,
but I don't think they have nearly the playoff ceiling
they need Without Paul George, I think I think the
Suns are going to make quick work of that.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, and also the Sons are a team between Durant's
health and Chris Paul's age. He had a great game
about a week ago, but like he kind of just
gave you, hey, I'm not done yet. I'm fine, I'm
good here. But they got a huge break because that's
a team Boston. I feel a little bit with Tatum
sometimes in Robert William's health and Marcus Smart, like they
(49:07):
don't need to play together. Like we know the Celtics
are fine, They've been playing together now for years. They
need time off, you know, Tatum needs rest. I feel
that way with Phoenix, like Chris Paul and Durant, what
they need is like five days off those legs going
into a playoff series. So I'm with you. Phoenix hasn't
lost yet with Durant on the floor. I mean it's
(49:29):
and it looks really good. You know, that's because Kevin's
a high functioning player and Chris Paul is one of
the smartest guys in the league. And that's where I
think sometimes with Ayton they've been frustrated. Moni's been frustrated,
Chris has he I think sometimes Chris Paul's really demanding
on his bigs, like he's really hard on them, and
(49:52):
so like everywhere he goes, the team gets better and
the big doesn't like him. But I think Kevin Durant'
a unique I wouldn't call him a big, but a
unique four that plays at such a high level of basketball,
like really gets the game. I just think him and
Chris are going to be magic. And I don't think
(50:14):
any I really don't. You know, we'll see With Denver,
Denver still, believe it or not. Despite they've been good
for several years, they're still a pretty young team. They
don't have a lot of playoff success. So I think
Phoenix is going to role. What did you make of
the Dallas punting those last two games of the season.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Reading some Dallas media reports it's a it's as show,
it's a mess. Well, you know, they hired a guy
from Nike who's never been really a GM, but he
was in the basketball division. Very smart guy, a relationship guy,
and now they put him in charge of running you know,
basketball ops. And you know, I like Mark Cuban. I
(50:58):
think he's really smart. He tends to be what I
would call a tech optimist. He has so much confidence
in his intelligence that he takes big swings and he
hits you know, his pharmaceutical companies brilliant. I understood. I
mean it was funny when they went and got Kyrie Irving.
I applauded it. I said, I like the swing. This
(51:19):
is going to be an atrocious defensive team. These are
two of the worst. I mean, Kyrie is an abysmal
defensive player. And so when people kind of embrace this
as a championship team, I'm like, guys, the Warriors and
Celtics were the two best defensive teams in the league. Like,
you can't win that way. You can't just score your way.
You can't you can't have to score one twenty six
a night. It just doesn't work that way in this sport.
(51:41):
And I think people think it's that. And then then
if you've ever had a buddy who goes and plays
in the NBA. It's like, man, they grind you. There's
a lot of contact in this league. In the playoffs,
they doubles down on it. That's why you know Kyrie
pre impost Lebron, he gets pushed around. It was Lebron
was a little bit of a bodyguard, and you have
(52:03):
to surround Kyrie with certain elements. I also think increasingly
Luca is a moody player, and he's going to be
really hard to find the Robin. You know, we talked
about this. The hardest thing in basketball is to find
the janis that once in a franchise player. So the
Bucks have done it twice, Luel Cinder and Yannis. They
got a championship one back in nineteen seventy one right Milwaukee,
(52:26):
and they got one with the Honis. It's not a
great free agent hub, so you have to kind of
build a culture and then eventually Kareem I want out,
I want to go West. He did, and so I
think when Luca came into the league there was this
sense is he could pair him with a lot so
they try the slash heir porzingis. They don't like each
other and then they tried Jalen Brunson and they're like, oh,
(52:48):
they don't really fit. Well, Jalen's been like an MVP
guard play in New York. Well let's try Kyrie. Well,
now Kyrie doesn't perfectly work for him. We're falling in
love with this great hyper offensive player Moody, difficult needs ball,
won't defend. You know, is he gonna end up Carmelo
(53:10):
Anthony where he has this early success in Denver and
never really then galvanizes people. I mean you start looking
at the great players of all time. Everybody needed a
running mate, Like Magic galvanized people. Lebron galvanized people. Michael didn't,
but he found a running mate, right Like some guys
don't do that, but they find a guy. Tim Duncan
(53:31):
finds his Tony Parker, Steph finds his clay Like. It's
way harder to find a two because it's not just
the player, it's the temperament. McHale was the college You
wouldn't remember this because you're young. He led the nation
in rebounding. He was known as a defensive guy that
rebounded at Minnesota, and he came to the NBA with
all these weird moves and he was super long. Kind
(53:54):
of an unorthodox looking scorer, but he was a great rebounder,
a shot blocker in college and byrd was a score. Well,
Michae could have scored more, but he's like, Okay, I'm
going to be part of this bosh in Miami. I
want to be part of this Kevin Love and Cleveland Lebron,
I'm going to be part of it. Like Luca's gonna
make you feel small. He's not gonna help you on
(54:16):
the defensive end. He's not gonna you're gonna get the
ball late in the shot clock with him. I think
lucas harder to play with than people think. And I
you say, well, Michael was difficult, but Michael got the
right coach, also found a very willing Robin, and then
he had high functioning players. Kurran Packson became gms like
(54:39):
they knew how to play with Michael. They understood Michael
was the guy those Bowl teams had really high. Bj
Armstrong becomes a power agent, like you had a lot
of guys around Michael that knew how to play the
game and appeal to his senses and his alpha. That's
hard like that that Lucas gonna be hard to play with,
(55:00):
and I think we have to come to terms with it.
Speaker 5 (55:03):
He's entering a very important phase of his basketball development
because he's starting to just slightly plateau a little bit.
And you know, I love the way you broke it down,
Like you have to be willing to buy into this
like larger concept of the team because for instance, like
you can break it down on a simple math level. Okay, Luca,
high pick and roll is worth you know, one point
(55:24):
two points per possession. Therefore, if we run it one
hundred times in a game, we're going to score one
hundred and twenty points. That's great, you know what I mean.
But there is a basketball team is a living organism
and all the pieces fit together, and like it would
behove Luca to start to learn how to adjust his
game to fit better with others because of the specific
(55:45):
fact that he will be on more talented teams as
time go along. This has worked. He went to the
Western Conference finals last year. I'm not trying to criticize
him overall in terms of what he's capable of, but
the reality is is like, hey, if you you know,
give the ball to Kyrie and maybe instead of running
a hi I pick and roll where you dribble the
air out of the basketball for seventeen seconds. Maybe you
run down the floor and come off of a wide
(56:06):
screen and use that as a dribble handoff and get downhill.
You can use your same skill set, that same vision,
that same size and strength and shot making ability more
within the flow of what a team can do as
a unit together, and then embracing getting in shape to
be able to be a more of an impact player defensively.
I think, look, here's the thing, the pouting. I absolutely
(56:28):
believe that has a negative effect on the psyche of
a basketball team when they see their star constantly bitching
and moaning at the refs and when he's constantly not
running back on defense and you can tell his head
is not in it. I again, I loved how you
brought up Carmelo Anthony because that's such an interesting comp.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
I mean, they're christ different positions, but in everybody said
they love Carmelo. Man, he gave you it was about
Carmelo getting his shot. He wouldn't even adjust to a
three point shot like it was bizarrely rigid in his
style of play.
Speaker 5 (57:01):
One hundred percent like they're not the same player obviously,
It's more just relative to the rest of the league
and the way his progression went, Like like Lebron was
a little bit better than Carmelo, and over the years,
Lebron kept getting better and Mellow just kind of stayed
the same. I mean, you got moderately better in some
areas of his offensive skill set, but he never became
an impact defensive player. He never became a top tier playmaker.
(57:24):
He never evolved in those other areas of his game.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
And was and was threatened by yes, yes, And I
think Luca at times feels a little threatened. First of all,
he's from outside of the country, so players like that,
I mean, you have to ingratiate yourself to a new
culture and a new country. That's really difficult. The other thing,
Jason is if you'll get Dirk Novinsky and Dallas probably
(57:48):
as beloved a player as the league's had. Everybody loved Dirk,
not everybody loves Luca. He's got a much more temperamental,
moody personality, so he's naturally gonna create some disharmony in
the room. He's just a moody guy. Dirk wasn't, so
(58:10):
the Mavericks multiple times switched pieces with Dirk. Almost you know,
almost everything worked with Dirk. It just didn't get a championship,
but like he didn't have there was no like clashes
of culture. Everybody liked Dirk, nobody likes Luca. Like it's
a big difference. I think Luca is a better player.
But at this point, somebody said this years ago to me,
(58:32):
They're like, in football, halftime, defense goes to the right,
offense goes to the left. In baseball, a third of
the teams in the bullpen, it's thirteen dudes on the
bench every practice on that plane, Like if one guy's
music's too loud on the plane. Now you have headphones now,
but you know years ago it's like one guy can
(58:54):
ruin an NBA locker room, and if the star is difficult,
it's a bad locker room. I think the maps are
a bit of an s show right now. And I
think Luca, I mean again, they're gonna they're gonna put
the pr people to work in Dallas. It's all good.
Luca is gonna love it. But when you watch him play,
(59:16):
he aggravates me at times with his barking to the officials,
Like on every play.
Speaker 5 (59:24):
It's such a love hate relationship for me because as
a basketball fan, there's so many things with Luca that
I'm drawn to. Like I he is one of the
best players that I've ever seen in terms of getting
beating people off the dribble without an athletic advantage, which
is so hard to do. It's like it's kind of
the Austin Reeves thing, like it's all it's all misdirection,
and and like having every move a revocably attached to
(59:46):
a counter move that's equally as effective, and in never
telegraphing your moves. And like Luca, there's so many things
that I love about his game and I hate watching
him because of his approach. Not only would the heliocentric
you know, just dribble the air the basketball every time,
but also with the attitude stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
And again it's a crossroads.
Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
He's either going to be the Carmelo of this era
or he's going to be an all time great. And
you know what, you know, what's interesting is if you
would ask everybody two years ago, you know, or all
of you just say last year during the Western Conference Finals,
who are the two best players you know that you'd
want for the next ten years, it'd be Jiannis and
Luca and he'd be pretty close, right Like, they'd be
neck and neck with a slight edge to Giannis. I
(01:00:25):
hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations
where Yannis just dramatically decorates himself because Luca Plateau's that's
a problem potential.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I mean, listen, Lebron was more physically gifted than Carmelo,
but as they drifted apart, a lot of it was
Lebron got along with more players, could play with more players,
was more amenable to different styles. I mean, Miami had
no size. He and Wade were duplication. He never liked
Mario Chalmers. I mean it was like they threw him
(01:00:54):
with Ray Allen's and Shane Battier's and Mike Miller's and
Lebron made it work. At the time, Spot was a
kid coach and Lebron made it work. And then he
goes to Cleveland again and he makes it work, and
he goes to Los Angeles and he makes it work.
If you give Lebron, I mean, Jr. Smith was fun,
but I think people forget he and Lebron were pretty
(01:01:14):
good together, and Jr. Smith was weird and you know,
a little eccentric and some viewed as difficult, kind of
an iso act, you know, super talented. Lebron made it work.
Lebron and him were close, despite that one time out
right that they called so And I think Jannis sort
(01:01:35):
of is amenable to a lot of different teammates and players.
Luca so far isn't like I mean, look at they
just bring in Jay Crowder and then Joe Ingles and
Drew Holliday and Chris Middleton was like they stole him.
I think from like Detroit, He's worked with all of them.
He works with everybody, and Brook Lopez another big He's
(01:01:56):
not threatened at all, Like it matters a lot, and
it's just like I always felt Carmelo was threatened. Luca
feels a little threatened. Jannis never does. Lebron never has.
I mean, God, he goes into Miami, it's d Wade City.
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
And it's like, all right, let's go for it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I mean he could have picked anywhere to go, right,
he goes to the probably the single most beloved player
in any city. I'll go to your city. I mean
that was rife with issues. Could you have seen Carmelo
going down there and making it work, his insecurities would
have just flourished. So I yeah, I'm not I'm not
anti Luca, but it's just like we've got to have
(01:02:35):
I think we're moving to the second phase, which is okay.
Not all these issues are Carmelo Anthony's teammates. Summer Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
The Volume.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show. I
brought Draymond Green into the Volume because one of the
more entertaining voices in sports. Unique perspective understands behind the
rope also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine,
Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green Show wherever
you get your podcasts, only on the Volume podcast Network.
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward Podcast.
Jeff Benedict, Boy, this was good. Author of the new
book Lebron, great insight into the decision and other major
turning points in Lebron's career. Oops Tonight host Jason Timpf
and I discussed big NBA topics, including why Luca maybe
turning into a headache for the MAVs, and Mike Silver
(00:36):
and I discuss what is reportedly the end of the
Dan Snyder era in Washington. All Right, my buddy, Mike Silver,
part of the volume, longtime NFL reporter writes for Ballely
Sports in the San Francisco Chronicle, actually begin going to
be doing some warrior games since he knows Steve Kerran
(00:56):
knows hoops, which is great. We'll get into that in
a second. Daniel Snyder, it's hard to ruin a great brand, right,
Like Donald Sterling was a bad human, but that was
never a great brand, right. Robert Sarver did all he
could to ruin the Suns, but it wasn't a huge
national brand. Seventies, eighties, nineties, Washington was the Packers. I
(01:20):
mean they were when I was a kid growing up.
They were the franchise after Dallas and the Steelers, and
it's such a great fan base, exactly, exactly, So a
lot of people felt, despite the harassment charges, that the
owners would support Dan Snyder and he would just figure
out a way despite bad pr to hang around. Any
(01:44):
insight to what possibly happened.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, I think one thing that happened is that one
of his own publicly started talking about maybe kicking about
And I know jimmers say really really well. I admire
his conviction. He goes against the grain at times. It's
possible Jim Rsay just spoke honestly and from his heart.
It's also possible that Jim Ersay had had some conversations
(02:11):
with other owners who said, you know what, we agree
with you, and if you say that, you know you'd
have our at least quiet support. But that was not
insignificant when Jimmersay started public you know, came out publicly
and said, yeah, I don't know, maybe we should get
rid of this guy. Jim Ersay has three daughters, He's
(02:32):
very close to him. He didn't like the way that
the allegations against Stan Schneider were selling NFL owners and
the league. You know, prior to that it had been thought, well,
a lot of owners have skeletons. Trust me, I worked
for them.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
For eight years. Trust they do.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Whole other podcast topic. But you know a lot of
owners have skeletons, and a lot of owners more charitably
and have people come out of the woodwork to accuse
them of things that maybe aren't totally accurate. But they
didn't want to open that can of worms where you know, okay,
if accusations happen, it sets the stage for these right franchises.
(03:16):
They want to be generational that while we've been on
this podcast that you know, each one is appreciated and
another one hundred thousand dollars or something. You know, they
didn't want to open that can of worms. And remember
Jerry Richardson faced some pretty serious allegations just passed away recently.
That problem got solved because he was older and he
(03:38):
was just done. He was like, you know what, fine,
I'm out. And they didn't have to the NFL owners
didn't have to deal with it. The NBA solved the
problem twice by throwing money at the problem. Essentially a
having the balls Adam Silver on his first day on
the job to say you're out. Donald Sterling, whether it's
constitutional or not, and then a giant offer from Steve
(04:01):
Ballmer and again with the suns that happened with Starvers.
So you know, this is a little bit of all
of that. Daniel Sider wasn't going to make it easy
and walk away, but I think once he heard Jim
Mersey say that, he realized, man, something has turned.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Now the next least popular owner is Jimmy Haslam, who
infuriated owners for another reason, an egregiously bad fully guaranteed
contract to Deshaun Watson. So if we had a ranking
of least popular owners among other billionaire owners, Haslam now
(04:41):
is number one.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Right, Well, that's so cool that you broached that because
I used to do owner rankings.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
As far as I know, I'm the only one i've.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I did them annually for SI dot com and then Yahoo,
and of course they were my rankings about who I
thought were doing the best jobs of owning teams.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But that actually has my wheel.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Spinning, like what about an insighty odor rankings of which
owners are the most hated among the other owners. And
you know, you bring up a good point, but I
think in the end, you know, yeah, that frustrated other
owners that Jimmy Haslam did that because now we got
to deal with this guarantee contract stuff. And other owners
(05:26):
didn't like it when David Tepper came in and gave
Matt Rule. Sounds weird in retrospect, but gave Matt Rule
all that money because it messed up the coaching contract market.
But I feel like owners get over that stuff, you know, eventually,
but the you know what owners can't get over allegations
have proven and maybe we'll never know that one owner,
(05:49):
Daniel Snyder, allegedly cooked the books and screwed them out
of their share of the gates. That's less forgivable, you
know for the billionaire set. So yeah, they tend to
stick together. They tend to not want to set precedents like, oh,
a couple of accusations could knock Xoder out of the
(06:10):
league and make them lose this incredible investment. But you know,
Daniel Snyder put them through the rigger in a lot
of ways, and Ers, possibly knowing that he spoke for
a larger contingent, was kind of like, Okay, this is
this is a nightmare. Look if the Colts play the Commanders,
(06:33):
if they're still called that at the FedEx Field or
a new stadium, and Jim Orsay takes the field pregame
to Goschmouze. He should get like an adoring celebration and
a prolonged ovation from those Washington fans for a huge,
huge assist on getting Daniel Snyder the f out, because
(06:57):
heaven knows, it's been long coming and it's tough to
shed any tears.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So I want to talk about the Niners because you
have such in depth, you have tentacles all over that organization.
And by the way, increasingly when I follow your Twitter feed,
all your critics are lightening up because you've been right
so many times and broken so many stories. They are
like silver, I hate eh, whatever, what's the latest news.
So the trail ant stuff is interesting. I was talking
(07:23):
to Jordan Palmer the other day and he's like, you know,
if you look at the offense San Francisco runs, a
lot of these plays are scheme to succeed. Sam Donald's
going to have the best protection, the best weapons, the
best coach he's ever had. And we know he's a big, strong,
athletic kid and coachable and hard working. He's just not
accurate enough. But this system makes you more accurate. Don't
(07:44):
be shocked if Jimmy Garoppolo is not nearly as good
with the Raiders as he was with the Niners. So
brock Purty, I think the franchise likes a lot and
Sam Donald are in house. We all know at some point,
and I think the Niners are, and even some of
the sound and some of the quotes from your articles,
they're going to move off something if they missed. They're
(08:05):
not going to try to double down on wrong. Let's
just be honest. Could Trey Lance be moved before the season.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
He could, but I believe that brock Purty's injury and
the uncertainty that still surrounds his recovery made that much
much less likely. Before the playoffs, I wrote and reported
it's over. Brock Purty's the guy because they want to
go with this model where they pay everybody and have
(08:34):
the quarterback on the rookie deal. Yeah, that's what That's
what trading for that pick was about. That's what drafting
Lance was supposed to be about. And with Purdy, the
model is even better. You're not even allowed to reopen
his contract for two more years. It's even cheaper than
Trey Lance's deal, and he showed Kyle Shanahan. You know,
people are like, well, how can you say Perdy. I'm like,
(08:55):
I'm not saying that. Kyle believes it based on what
he saw for Purdy the guy. So going into that
Philly game for the Conference championship, the only thing that
kuld of derailed that plan was what happened. If Rock
Party had broken his leg, it would have been brutal
and it would have hurt and it would have sucked.
But they would have been like, fine, he'll come back.
(09:16):
It's because of what happened to was throwing elbow. You're
not totally sure. A you're not sure when, and B
you're still not positive that it's going to be like
it was before. And I have PTSD because a lot
of my Twitter critics probably weren't born when I was
right about the Joe Bontana Steve Young stuff. But Joe
(09:38):
Bontana missed basically two seasons after elbow surgeries, and he
did come back after that. It'd have two really really
good years with the Chiefs, but nothing is promised, and
so I think because of that, it gives them an
opening to say, look, we knew Lance was going to
take a while to develop because he was raw. It's
(10:00):
taken longer. It didn't work when we just handed it
to him last year. We ended up having to bring
Garoppolo back as a hedge and ultimately turned the party.
But maybe we can develop him and use this offseason
to get him some more reps. And I don't know
if this offense makes you more accurate, because you're going
to have to be more accurate than or consistently accurate
(10:21):
than Trai Lance was before he got hurt last year.
But you know, there's still a lot of things to
potentially like about him. So I believe what they'll do
is they'll say, look, party's not going to be here
till at least the start of the season, maybe longer.
We're gonna split reps between Lance and Dartl's see how
they react, see what we have. Basically, if one of
(10:44):
them has to start the opener, it's the guy we
think gives us the best chance to win. And I
think one thing that people are missing here is that
when they say, well, they're going to trade Trey Lance
and admit their mistake, Yeah, eventually they're going to admit
their mistake. If it was a mistake, but they're not
fielding offers to get back in the first round for
(11:04):
Trey Lance. And I know it only takes one team,
but if they trade Trey Lance, now, I think it's
for a three or something. And so I just don't
think you have urgency too. You don't know about Purdy,
you'd like another option, you'd like to see if you
can develop a more because you do have a lot
of vested in them. You're not paying them a lot,
and you can always move them, you know, a year
(11:27):
from now, if it goes the way you wanted to
with Purdy, and possibly if it does with Darnold. So
I think if someone called them and said we will
give you it too, like something, they thought.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Oh take a second, yeah they yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I think if someone calls and says we'll give you
a three for Trey Lance, they go three. Let's see,
we currently have ninety six picks in the third round.
Not all these guys are going to make our team.
I mean, I just don't think. I think I'd rather
have a chance to, you know, develop of this offseason.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Maybe they will.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I don't even think they'll necessarily get off for a
three right now. But listen, if he goes out and
looks good in the preseason and possibly earlier the season,
they could get a lot more for him a year
from now.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So you went to cal Aaron Rodgers did. But Aaron
Rodgers has gotten a little bit more indifferent and critical
of the media over the last several years. And I
said this on the show today. There's a lot of
reports now that this thing won't get done Jets and
Packers until after the draft. So Green Bay does have
a need at tight end that's fairly urgent. They'll probably
(12:36):
draft a tight end in the first round. They need
another receiver, pretty thin and young at receiver. They'll go
that in the second round. But the roster is good,
not great, but it's good. It's not San Francisco, it's
not Philadelphia. I don't think it's as good maybe as
you know a Buffalo or as you know the top
teams in the AFC.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
But it's a good roster. I believe that.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Aaron if he just came out and just said guys,
I'm in for two years minimum, it would be over.
You could then the Jets would be like, Okay, we
know it, you know it. But I said this today,
and I've been critical of Aaron. But Aaron's too smart
to not know that once you take the most money,
(13:18):
you won't have the best roster. He took the money.
He's too smart to think, yeah, two rookie receivers, I'm
not going to work with him in the off season.
That'll work great. I honestly think that we all make
choices on what matters to us. You have a great family,
great friends in your career. You have prioritized those and
they're all strong. Some people care about their careers, some
(13:41):
people care about social life somewhat less stress. Aaron's made
a decision, in my opinion, and winning. Second, what he
wants is control over the media, over situations, over the Packers.
That he could end all this bullshit. He can end
the drama.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
If you just said two years I'm in, I'll think
about a third. Why doesn't he do that?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Well, first of all, I've also made some bad decisions
in terms of priorities, specifically continuing to root for cal
which is you know, no, and I joke, but you know, charitably,
for Aaron, I would say this, he said he was
thinking about retiring, you know, very seriously recently. That's what
(14:25):
he you know, will take up at his word. It's
I think it's better not to say I'm in for
two years if you're not sure that you are. And sure,
he could say I'm in for two years and you know,
by December be like, oh, I'm you know, this is terrible,
I'm out here. But maybe it's to his credit that
he's not sure he's in for two years. And listen,
(14:47):
I know I know from talking to my sources that
the Jets understand that there's a scenario where he only
plays one and they are not telling the packers, sorry, man,
we take it or leave it. What they're saying to
the packers is, look, man, you know if it comes
(15:07):
and he plays one year, we give up all this
That seems kind of skewed. Is there a mechanism in
this trade where if that happens, we get something back
after he retires? And I think that's you know, they
consider that a reasonable request. So yeah, Aaron can end
that if he just said I'm in for two But
maybe it's to Aaron's credit that he's not saying that
(15:29):
because he's just not sure.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Your guess how long you would play with the Jets.
I think it's too you know, Aaron's career, first year
as a starter in Green Bay, first year with Hackett,
it has taken him usually because I've been told he's
not a big grinder in the off season like a
Brady A. Peyton or Russell Wilson, that Aaron's second year
is usually the year he pops. Well, I don't think
(15:52):
he wants to do a one walk off and be average.
I think he wants to end. It's good for his legacy,
it's good for money, it's good. I think he wants
to have a reviable year and I don't think his
first year, frankly is going to be great.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But he doesn't consider this year one, first of all,
Year one with Hackett on la floor was a whole
new scheme and that I believe that was a legitimate adjustment.
By the way they got to the NFC Championship game.
He did not have a great statistical year, but they
went thirteen to three and got to the FFC Championship game.
But I think the way that he and the Jets
are thinking of this is this is essentially year four
(16:33):
after a gap, because it's Hackett, and because it's that offense,
and it's not like Hackett plus Lafloor. By the way,
Att Haacket plus Sola, who's like you run the offense,
I'm you know, I'll keep an eye on my specialty,
which is defense. So if you believe that Aaron and
Hackett are now resuming a very fruitful partnership that won
(16:54):
consecutive MVPs their next two years together, and it's the
Jets receipts and other players who are going to have
to adjust to that, Aaron may not think it's he.
Aaron probably thinks I'm going to just be rolling for
the get go. But going back to what you said earlier,
just as he made a decision not to work with
(17:15):
the new receivers a year ago, when clearly, as Patrick
Mahobes could tell you, that was an important thing to
do for winning, I think that's what you need to
look at. If this trade doesn't get done Draft weekend,
you will probably hear I suspect, Hey, it turns out
(17:36):
Aaron Rodgers and Garrett Wilson and Al Lazard and you know,
all those Jets targets are working out in La or somewhere,
and because there's nothing to stop him, you can't say
he's tampering. And you can't say Garrett Wilson's tampering. So
I think it is important to have to hit the
(17:58):
ground running at your and that that'll be the way
we know if there's no trade right away or the
next couple of weeks, I would expect we'll see him
and those guys for the Jets start to work together.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well. I'm very excited I get to talk to Jeff
Benedict after he finishes another absolutely consumable book. You know,
he wrote The Dynasty. The insight on the New England Patriots,
which is soon to be a documentary on Apple TV,
was tremendous. He co wrote the book with my friend
(18:35):
Armin Katayan Tiger Woods. And now the new book is
Lebron and it's the kind of in depth reporting and
context that you just don't get on certainly on shows
like mine, but you don't even get in like a
magazine article of some renowned It's such quality reporting. And
I thought I knew just about everything about Lebron, but
(18:57):
the details and the digging here is so fun. You
start the book, the topic is the decision, which for
years I defended Lebron on David Stern argued with me,
I'm like listen, he gave millions of dollars of the
Boys and Girls Club give me a break and Stern,
as you know, appalled is too strong but didn't like it.
(19:22):
So let's you start the book there. Maverick Carter, who
I know very well consider a friend, had some leverage
in creating this. Let's go back to the decision. People
may just remember the Jim Gray interview. It's quick. How
did it land for Lebron? Talk about the genesis of it.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Well, it's fantastic because Lebron had been he was being
courted for a year or longer by a handful of
teams that were pulling out all the stops to get him.
And you know, it was the question not just in
the NBA, but the question in sports that summer was
where is Lebron going to go? Or is he going
(20:05):
to stay in Cleveland? And the reason I decided to
open there is because, first of all, I was able
to get access to some information about that day and
that decision that has never really come out before. And
that's why I wanted to start the book. In a
car pulling out of the private airport in New York,
making its way through the back roads of Greenwich to
(20:27):
the home of the man who really Mark Dowley, who
helped put this together with Maverick, And I just thought
this gives the reader the opportunity to feel like they're
literally in the car with Lebron as he's en route
to make a decision in a part of the country
that most people have never been to. I mean, most
(20:48):
Americans have never been to Greenwich, Connecticut. And in a way,
it's a weird place when you think about it. Why
in the world would you choose Greenwich to make this announcement.
It's Nick's country, if anything, and if you were going
to go to the Knicks, Greenwich is an odd place
to go to do this. And so I wanted to
go there with the reader because I just thought it
allowed me to show so many things about Lebron at
(21:11):
that moment in his life. And I just love the
scenery of them getting out of the car and Greenwich
at this estate, Maverick and rich Paul, and they're flying
so high in that moment, they're so happy, they're so
almost in a way there is a naive ta about
what's about to happen, and they're so loose.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
And then in a couple of hours, all hell breaks.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It does take people listening now, because there is so
much depth to this book. You can give away a
lot and not give away a third of it. But
when did they realize something had gone poorly with the decision?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I think, you know, they started a sense that things
aren't great immediately after the decision was announced and the
initially ESPN broadcast had concluded, meaning the live event with
Jim Gray, and then Lebron had to do an interview
with Michael Wilbon who was in studio and doing a
(22:15):
remote interview with Lebron who was still in Greenwich at
the club, and the questions. One of the questions Wilbon
asked him was if he could see what was happening
in Cleveland. They were already burning his jersey, But it's
not till later that evening, before they've left Greenwich though,
(22:35):
to get on a private plane to go to Miami.
They hung around for a while. They actually went back
to Dowy's house and they were listening to music and
hanging out. And then Dan Gilbert's letter shows up on
the website and you're starting to go like wow, Like
(22:56):
the New York Times puts up a story that's referring
to the Evil Empire. And this is all happening in
real time and Twitter works now right, It's Twitter's fairly
new at this point, but it works, and the tweets
are coming from all over the place, not just sports people,
but people in entertainment, late night comedy. Everybody's piling on.
And so by the time Lebron and his inner circle
(23:20):
are in the air to fly to Miami, they know
it's bad. And I love how Rich Paul refers to
the quietest flight he'd ever been on with Lebron and Maverick.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So there was a sweepstakes, as you note, to get Lebron.
The Knicks had an interesting pitch, but Miami's landed. Tell
our audience why, and they're tact, which is to me
pat Riley's one of the smartest guys in league history.
Not a shock he hit the right notes. Yes, yeah,
(23:55):
I love. The reason I love the Knicks pitch is
because it's so New York and it's just so over
the top and so inappropriate in terms of what you
need to lure Lebron to your team. Lebron had so
much access to fame and glitz and glamour, that's not
(24:18):
what he was looking for. And he wasn't looking for
a billion dollars. He was looking for rings championships. And
so New York does this thing where they hire a
filmmaker who doesn't know anything about basketball. He didn't know
the difference between a basketball and a golf ball. And
so he goes out and brings in Jonathan Hawk, who
(24:39):
knows how to make a sports documentary, and they have
all the celebrities in New York City lined up, from
Harvey Weinstein to Reggie Jackson to Alec Baldwin, I mean,
Robert de Niro, everybody wanted in this documentary. And they
even got Donald Trump. They went up to Trump Tower
and got Trump to sit for an interview. Anybody they
(25:00):
interviewed is pitching lebron On White needs to come to
New York. To me, the best part of that whole
story and the smartest thing they did, was to go
get Tony Soprano out of retirement and to bring him
in to do a sketch at the end of the film,
and it's basically Dandal Feini getting back in that role
with Edie Falco. It was brilliant, and I told the
(25:21):
story through.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
The lens of Jonathan Hawk, who shot the interview in
Tony's apartment, and they pitch him and it's basically literally
the offer you can't refuse. And Lebron thought it was
funny because it was it was clever, it was funny,
but it wasn't right. And then Riley comes in and
Riley's last and Riley brings in a bag of rings
(25:45):
and he puts him on the table and you know,
Lebron asks him what's in there, and he dumps him
out and there is championship rings that he's won everywhere,
and it's what Lebron wants, and he has this really
important line to keep the main thing the main thing.
(26:07):
Lebron didn't know what that was in the moment, but
Maverick knew what it was because he'd read Steve and
Rcovey's book and certainly understood what Riley was saying. And
the main thing in Miami with pat Riley is winning championships,
and he knew that that was the main thing for Lebron.
(26:28):
And I just thought, wow, like these two contrasts the
Knicks in the heat. So the Miami story is four years,
two championships. I think the arc of many of our lives.
Is the hardships come before the titles or the runs. Right,
(26:51):
We've all struggled in our life. Lebron struggles are the
struggles of the greatest basketball player evert The decision dinged
them a little bit. But Miami was Miami felt like
it was going to work very quickly. You had the
smart owner, pat Riley, a young, brilliant young coach. You
had d Wade Haslam, the culture, and then he loses
(27:13):
to the Mavericks and for the only time in his
career looked afraid on the court. That was a real
turning point for Lebron. Talk about that, it's a huge
turning point. I would say, it's not really a disagreement
with you. But I think the decision did more than
Dingham because the ramification of the decision is he is
(27:37):
the villain of American sports. His first year in Miami,
he hated and anyone who was in Cleveland. I was
not there the night that Lebron returned to Cleveland, but
I interviewed people who were It was violent. I mean
it was scary. People who were on that team said
they were afraid. The security in the arena. People that
(27:57):
were there to protect the Miami players. They had never
seen or felt anything like that at an American sports event.
That first year in Miami for Lebron, I think was
different because Lebron likes to be liked and he was
hated that year. And then on top of that, they
were supposed to win and they didn't win, and I
think that's what plunged Lebron into a dark period. The
(28:21):
summer after losing to Dallas is the darkest period of
Lebron's career for him personally, and it's really a moment
of self discovery where he's locked away in Miami. He
doesn't want to talk to anybody, not family, not friends.
He's listening to certain kinds of music, and really when
he comes out of that, it's interesting when he comes
(28:42):
out of that. I just thought it was interesting that
one of the first people he saw when he came
out of that was Bono in Miami, who had come
YouTube was there touring, and he had some private time
with Bono backstage. I just thought it was interesting because
I was thinking to myself as a writer, Bono's probably
one of the only people on the planet who could
(29:05):
actually say in that moment, I've been through more than you.
I know what this is like, Like I've been in
worse spots than you because I've been doing this longer
and I'm a world around rockstar. And I'm sure he
didn't say those things to Lebron, but there aren't many
people Lebron can get in a room with who could
actually say I've been to these places that you're in
(29:26):
right now. And he comes out of that, and Dwayne
Wade has a big part of him coming out of that,
because that's when they have the conversation about this needs
to be your team. It's sort of like it's okay
to take over, you need to dominate. This is my
city and my team in my town. But we're not
going to win unless you take the reins and boy,
(29:48):
the next season, Lebron's the scariest player in the NBA.
I mean, everyone's afraid of him. You don't want to
play this team and that guy, and I think the
next three years to me, those are the scary Lebron hears.
Let's go back to you talk about in the book.
There's obviously great debate. Lebron now starts stacking up championships
(30:13):
in Miami and the Michael Jordan. Stuff really starts to
become a comp and nobody had really ever challenged Michael Jordan.
It was just Russell.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Early, then Kareem, then Magic. Then you know, you kind
of got ten years to yourself as the greatest player ever.
And all of a sudden after the second title, people
start talking about, Wow, this guy is different. Yes, but
in his early days in high school Jeff nobody talked
about Michael Jordan. Their games were different, Their personalities are
(30:46):
completely different. One is much more hyper aggressive, much more
the score not necessary, not necessarily ever conciliatory or considered
about your feelings. Lebron's comp was not my as you.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Noted, Yeah it is, because it's interesting you reference that
high school years. One of my favorite scenes in this well,
I'm going to say two of them, because they're kind
of coupled. It's Whenick Maverick goes back. He leaves college
after one year, right realizes he's not going to play
in the NBA, goes back to Akron to go to
(31:22):
school and to work with Lebron and help Lebron and
navigate those tenuous high school years coming up for him.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Andy starts coaching his AAU.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Team and they go to Chicago in the summer, and
one of the guys from Jordan's Jim, who works with
Michael Jordan trains with him, approaches Maverick and invites him
and Lebron to come to Michael's Jim in Chicago, and
they go. Michael's not there, but they go and they
check it out, and it's like they've entered that sort
of celestial space where Michael Jordan trains. It's a private
(31:53):
place not anybody can go, and other NBA players who
are active in the league go there to train and run.
Remember Michael's retired right now, but they go there, and
one of the things that Lebron gets to do is
he gets to scrimmage run with these NBA players, guys
like Antoine Walker, big time players, big bodies, playing with
(32:16):
a teenager. And for the first time, the floor looks
different to Lebron, it's a different floor. And that's why
that chapter is called a different Floor. It's the same
dimensions of the floor that he plays on at Saint VI's,
except everything's different. The passing lanes are more narrow because
(32:38):
the guys are so much bigger. Their arms are longer.
When they put their arms out the routes to the
basket just aren't there that he sees in high school games.
It's all different for him. And that is a huge
eye opening experience for him. And one thing happens. He
can't guard anybody in those scrimmages. They're too good, they're
(33:00):
too fast, the too big. He can't guard them. But
he can score against these guys, which is phenomenal. He
can score buckets with some of the best NBA players
and he's only in high school. That's really important. And
then here's the second part. Later they go back there
and they're there and they're about to leave, and they
(33:24):
go outside and Marten pulls up in a red sports car.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
And gets out.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Now at this moment, Michael knows he's coming out of retirement,
but nobody else knows that. He hasn't announced it yet,
And so he gets out. The coolest athlete in the
world gets out of the car and approaches Lebron. He
knows who Lebron is, and Lebron certainly sees who he is.
(33:52):
This is his idol, this is the guy whose posters
are on his bedroom walls. It's the guy whose number
he wears. And now they're in a conversation, and Michael
invites him back inside and they talk and Michael doesn't
give him advice, because Michael's not that kind of guy.
But it doesn't matter. It's what he did give him
(34:14):
was he gave him his cell phone number, which to
me is a lot more important than advice because of
what it says to Lebron. Michael doesn't give his phone
number out to anybody. Lebron's now one of the few
people in America who has Michael Jordan's cell phone. And
when he leaves Chicago that night, by the way, Colin,
the next day is the first day of school at
(34:35):
Saint fee, Maverick's got to race him home because he's
got to be in school the next day, and in
his pocket he's got Michael Jordan's phone number. And he
wrote in his journal about that and about how cool
that experience was. And to me, what did Michael think
of Lebron in that moment? Did he really think that
Lebron was actually going to threaten him as the potential
(34:59):
greatest player of all time time? I don't know, Probably not,
because he was still a kid and he was very
encouraging to him at that moment. But Obviously, as time
goes on, and it doesn't take long. By the time
you get to Game five against Detroit, you know, like
this guy is actually that guy, like he is the future.
(35:22):
He is that good and there isn't anyone else like him.
And so I just think that Michael Jordan origin stories
with Lebron, they're real, and there's some of the most
interesting parts of Lebron's story.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
I'm really intrigued with this Memphis matchup. It makes a
lot of sense for the Lakers on a couple of
different levels. The Memphis Grizzlies are a team that play
a lot of guys that typically don't shoot very well, right,
John Murray, you can go underneath screens. Dylan Brooks has
been shooting well for a couple of weeks, but he's
a guy that I guarantee you Darvin Ham's gonna dare
to shoot. And then obviously in the front court with
Steven Adams out, with Brandon Clark gout, yeah, looking at
(36:00):
Xavier Tillman or Jaron Jackson there, Darvin Ham loves to
dare people to shoot, and I think this is a
series that actually bodes well for the Lakers there. And
then on the other end of the floor. Who is
the best surgical matchup hunting player and probably the history
of the NBA, Lebron James. And so he's gonna be
calling up John Morant to every single conceivable action. He's
(36:21):
gonna be get doing everything in his power to get
Dylan Brooks off of him or to get Anthony Davis
into favorable matchups. And obviously there's a long road ahead.
If they win, I think they're gonna face the Warriors
in round two. If they win that, there's a very
good chance they're gonna play Phoenix in round three. If
they win that, there's a very good chance you're gonna
get Boston or Milwaukee at the end of that. So
(36:42):
it's a very long road. It's a lot to put
on Lebron James and Anthony Davis physically.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But here's the deal.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
You made it to the playoffs, ish, and you're probably
gonna be a slight favorite in round one. I'd call
that a resounding victory compared to where we were before
the deadline.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well, the other thing is Memphis isn't Cleveland young or
ok C or Houston young. But Steven Adams is one
of the few guys with some playoff experience, and he's out.
So Memphis is fairly young, and I always felt this
year that you know, they're one of those teams built
(37:19):
for the regular season because they play hard and they
have depth, and you can win a lot of games
in this league off playing hard and having ten guys
that doesn't matter nearly as much. So now they get
smaller without Steven Adams plays right into Anthony Davis's hands,
and he's had the best two week stretch arguably since
he's been a Laker. If you take out the bubble,
he's been completely dominating.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Again.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
He didn't play particularly well today in terms of total points,
but down the stretch he had a couple of key baskets.
So I think you get a Memphis team that's smaller,
had injuries, young, and let's be honest, the job Morant
stuff still not great. So I if you say to me, Okay,
(38:06):
there's a team in the playoffs that could be a
little volatile of all of them, and I'd be like
Clippers because of Kawhi, you never know if he's going
to play Westbrook. They had a fight on their bench,
So like Clippers feel very vaulatle to me and I
think Memphis as a young one of the younger playoff teams.
Cleveland in the East is very young, but Cleveland doesn't
(38:27):
feel immature. Everybody in Cleveland knows exactly what they are
and what they do. Donovan Mitchell has already clarified their offense.
He takes the last big shot and everybody knows it.
Mobley's you're big, he's your young guy, but he knows
laden games. They all step aside for Donovan Mitchell. Memphis
has some egos, they're chatty. I think the Lakers win
(38:49):
that series.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
I really do it.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I think Anthony Davis is going to have a fantastic
series Without Steven Adams.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Memphis is very dangerous because they have guys that are
capable of knocking down shots. Like here's the think of
John Muran. Like we learned from last year's playoffs, Like
Desmond Bane really good, interesting player, excellent shooter, good defensive player,
can do some slashing, but he really struggled to beat
people off the dribble last year in the playoffs. That's
a concern. The playoffs in general will take your weakness
(39:18):
and shine the biggest magnifying glass. Yeah, that's what the
playoffs do the same thing with John Moran. It's hey, yeah,
you knock down pull up threes at thirty percent this year,
that's great. We are going to dare you to take
that this year to the point where we're going to
actually try to get into your head by making you
think you can't do it. That's the way that these
these especially these veteran playoff teams try to attack you
(39:40):
and make you feel uncomfortable, make you lack confidence, and
at the end of the day, like it all comes
down to the physical side of things, like Lebron James
has to hold up, Anthony Davis has to hold up.
But over the course of a playoff series, the team
that wins is usually the team that generates higher quality
shots in the half court. Who do you trust more
to get stops in the half court for seven games
(40:03):
Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves or you know,
John Moraet, Desmond Bayn, Dylan Brooks and Jared Jackson. And
then on the flip side of that, when Memphis has
to score against them, I just think I just think
the Lakers are going to get better quality shots over
the course of the series wouldn't be surprised if Memphis
jumped up to a one zero lead or a two
to one lead. But I think as the series progresses,
(40:24):
the older, more talented team in the Lakers is in
the best shape. I want to say this though I
am a big believer in what Golden State does, but yes,
Andrew Wiggins is back. However, he's a rhythm player who
has not played really intense competitive basketball for a while.
(40:44):
Had they fallen to seven and drawn that Memphis matchup,
I think Memphis would have beat them. That's how much
I view the importance of getting Andrew Wiggins up to speed.
So it is so critically important that they get this
series against Zacremento, a team who's very good and very
offensively skilled, as an excellent home court advantage. But they
(41:05):
are not the biggest and most athletic team in the world,
so Golden State, in their lack of athleticism, will have
less of a factor to play in that particular series.
And I don't know if you notice, but Golden State's
actually a minus two hundred favorite to win that series.
That's a pretty significant favorite. If they get out of
that series, that buys you from now three additional weeks
(41:27):
to get Andrew Wiggins up to speed for a potential
matchup with Memphis or LA, two massive teams that are
incredibly athletic and big, and at that point I feel
better about well.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
And Gary Payton just the other night got extended minutes.
So now Gary Peyton, you can put him on for
a good at sixteen minutes a night. Just put him
on Daron Fox and then put Klay Thompson, Dante de Vincenzo.
We've talked about this Golden State's absurdly deep in the
back court and very thin in the front court. But
(41:57):
Dearon Fox is their fourth court guy. I think he's
the best guard in the NBA and the fourth quarter
this year in terms of what they call crucial points.
So you know, I saw the other night Peyton played
like eighteen twenty minutes, and I'm like, that's exactly what
they wanted. So Wiggins isn't ready to go at that level.
And they'll have to massage that a little because Cominga's
(42:20):
finally now playing real minutes and they're gonna take them away.
So that's a weird, you know, confluence of events where
it's like we need Wiggins desperately, but you know, Kuminga's
actually started to put log in eighteen twenty twenty four
minutes and been productive. So now you got to peel
him back, so you got to massage that in the
locker room. And the chemistry has been weird with the
(42:40):
Warriors this year since the Draymond Jordan Poole inflammation. But
I like their matchup in the series. He throw a
lot of bodies at Fox. You know, Golden State will
have to win a road game, but this is almost
you know, it's a bus ride, and I also think
this they'll get the whistle. They know how to manipulate officials.
(43:02):
They know how to do the psychological manipulation. I mean,
Sacramento is like the little brother down the road to
the Dynasty, and you can see in spots them being
a little overwhelmed and the Warriors, you know, trash talking,
getting in their head and getting the favorable whistle the
Dynasty does in the first round. My entire life, I
(43:26):
don't think the league is rigged, but I do think
veteran teams manipulate officiating in the playoffs, where referees tend
to swallow the whistle. You're not going to get that
high octane offense that draws all those fouls. The Warriors
can slow it down, speed it up, they'll get the whistle.
So I think it's one of these series. It's a
(43:48):
really good series for Golden State. There were some real
worrisome matchups. Even the Lakers size could be a huge problem.
I think they locked down well. Again, the Warriors can
beat somebody with size. They just need Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Like when I say I would have picked Memphis to
win in the first round, that's one hundred percent and
Andrew Wiggins take like that. It's all associated with the
fact that he is so imperative to their athletic ceiling
that they need to compete in a series against that team,
giving them an extra three weeks from now to get there.
That's vitally important. The Sacramento this is a Gary Payton
series in my opinion, and the main reason why is
(44:27):
because Sacramento has killed teams all season, along with the
simple combination of deeron Fox and demand of Sabonis and
what they do with their dribble handoffs, and the problem
it presents for teams because you let deeron Fox get
downhill or if you switch it. Sabonis is one of
the best players in the league at beating switches to
the basket, and if he draws double teams, he's an
(44:47):
excellent passer. So what I like about the Golden State
matchup in that series is Draymond Green and Gary Payton.
Couldn't I couldn't conceive possibly mentally a better duo to
potentially handle those two guys. And this is again, what
an attribute, And this is why I actually love this
move from the deadline. What an incredible attribute to have
as a coach, a weapon in your pocket to be
(45:10):
able to deploy Gary Payton on the other team's best
guard and to know he's gonna be able to hold
that in check. I don't know if you noticed this
the other night, but the Warriors won the game against
Oklahoma City, a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. You
might have been scammed, but it was a tough fought
game against Oklahoma City, and in the fourth quarter of
that game, Gary Payton shut down shake Yield is Alexander
(45:30):
who's one of the best guards in this league. He
had a couple of buckets on switches and he drew
one foul, but for the most part, Gary Payton shut
him down and it was how Golden State pulled out
that game. He is one of the best guards in
the league to guard this specific type of matchup, partnering
that with Draymond Green. I love this matchup for the Warriors.
I would pick them to win in no more than
(45:51):
six games, but I'm leaning towards five. And for all
the Hoops Tonight listeners out there, We're going to do
a full breakdown of this series within the next couple
of days where we'll really dive into the x's and o's,
But I'm leaning towards picking the Warriors in five or six.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I think I would take the Warriors in six
suns four against the Clippers five. This again really plays
in the Phoenix's hand. So you know, Kevin Durant's gotten
several games off, so they're sitting him, and here you
have an inflamed bench situation where plumb Lee gets into
(46:23):
a fight. You're already asking Tylou, like, what do you
do with Westbrook? Now he's great in regular season production, Okay,
now we get into situational basketball.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Paul George isn't available. He would be huge in this series.
To defend Kevin Durant. So now I've got a little
bit of inflammation. How do I use Westbrook, who's not
been a great postseason player? What do I do with
Kevin Durant matchup like Memphis, There's some depth here, but
there's a lot to me. This could not in a
(46:56):
weird way Kevin Durant. Between getting hurt in warm ups
and now resting for the last couple of games, You're
getting the most rested, healthiest Kevin Durant in like years.
And I think Phoenix is going to be a handful
for the Clippers. I love Phoenix here.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah, you know, I'm really low on the Clippers in general, Colin.
I don't know how many times we have to go
into the season with everybody like preaching that they're one
of the favorites for them to not fulfill that, for
us to finally learn our lessons. They don't have good
rim protection, they don't have good playmaking, and that makes
that's two vitally important things that you have to have
(47:35):
to succeed in the playoffs. You know, this is this
is what the Clippers are. They are a team with
a bunch of wings that are wings in name only
that don't move as well as they used to.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
Right, I got a lot of guys.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Like Marcus Morris and Nick Batoum and Ry Covington, guys
that once upon a time would have been vital, important
playoff pieces, but they're just not that anymore. And Covington's
out of the rotation. Marcus Morris has been hurt, but
Toom's okay, you know, but every the problem is they
without Paul George, they simply do not have enough shot creation. Right,
There's three guys on the team that can create their
own shot Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook and Norman Powell. And
(48:07):
Norman Powell's runs hot and cold. I mean, obviously he
destroyed the Lakers the other day, but he runs hot
and cold. Russell Westbrook, the game has to be going
a very specific type of way for him to have impact.
And as good as Kawhi Leonard is and he's made
strides as a playmaker, he's a pull up shot maker.
Like he doesn't pressure the rims super well, and he's
not the best passer in the world. So it's like, yeah,
he'll get you his thirty by knocking down his pull
(48:28):
up jump shots. But He's not a guy that can
really carry an offense over the course of a game.
And so what they really are is a team that
doesn't have a lot of shot creation. They're a good team,
but I don't think they have nearly the playoff ceiling
they need Without Paul George, I think I think the
Suns are going to make quick work of that.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, and also the Sons are a team between Durant's
health and Chris Paul's age. He had a great game
about a week ago, but like he kind of just
gave you, hey, I'm not done yet. I'm fine, I'm
good here. But they got a huge break because that's
a team Boston. I feel a little bit with Tatum
sometimes in Robert William's health and Marcus Smart, like they
(49:07):
don't need to play together. Like we know the Celtics
are fine, They've been playing together now for years. They
need time off, you know, Tatum needs rest. I feel
that way with Phoenix, like Chris Paul and Durant, what
they need is like five days off those legs going
into a playoff series. So I'm with you. Phoenix hasn't
lost yet with Durant on the floor. I mean it's
(49:29):
and it looks really good. You know, that's because Kevin's
a high functioning player and Chris Paul is one of
the smartest guys in the league. And that's where I
think sometimes with Ayton they've been frustrated. Moni's been frustrated,
Chris has he I think sometimes Chris Paul's really demanding
on his bigs, like he's really hard on them, and
(49:52):
so like everywhere he goes, the team gets better and
the big doesn't like him. But I think Kevin Durant'
a unique I wouldn't call him a big, but a
unique four that plays at such a high level of basketball,
like really gets the game. I just think him and
Chris are going to be magic. And I don't think
(50:14):
any I really don't. You know, we'll see With Denver,
Denver still, believe it or not. Despite they've been good
for several years, they're still a pretty young team. They
don't have a lot of playoff success. So I think
Phoenix is going to role. What did you make of
the Dallas punting those last two games of the season.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Reading some Dallas media reports it's a it's as show,
it's a mess. Well, you know, they hired a guy
from Nike who's never been really a GM, but he
was in the basketball division. Very smart guy, a relationship guy,
and now they put him in charge of running you know,
basketball ops. And you know, I like Mark Cuban. I
(50:58):
think he's really smart. He tends to be what I
would call a tech optimist. He has so much confidence
in his intelligence that he takes big swings and he
hits you know, his pharmaceutical companies brilliant. I understood. I
mean it was funny when they went and got Kyrie Irving.
I applauded it. I said, I like the swing. This
(51:19):
is going to be an atrocious defensive team. These are
two of the worst. I mean, Kyrie is an abysmal
defensive player. And so when people kind of embrace this
as a championship team, I'm like, guys, the Warriors and
Celtics were the two best defensive teams in the league. Like,
you can't win that way. You can't just score your way.
You can't you can't have to score one twenty six
a night. It just doesn't work that way in this sport.
(51:41):
And I think people think it's that. And then then
if you've ever had a buddy who goes and plays
in the NBA. It's like, man, they grind you. There's
a lot of contact in this league. In the playoffs,
they doubles down on it. That's why you know Kyrie
pre impost Lebron, he gets pushed around. It was Lebron
was a little bit of a bodyguard, and you have
(52:03):
to surround Kyrie with certain elements. I also think increasingly
Luca is a moody player, and he's going to be
really hard to find the Robin. You know, we talked
about this. The hardest thing in basketball is to find
the janis that once in a franchise player. So the
Bucks have done it twice, Luel Cinder and Yannis. They
got a championship one back in nineteen seventy one right Milwaukee,
(52:26):
and they got one with the Honis. It's not a
great free agent hub, so you have to kind of
build a culture and then eventually Kareem I want out,
I want to go West. He did, and so I
think when Luca came into the league there was this
sense is he could pair him with a lot so
they try the slash heir porzingis. They don't like each
other and then they tried Jalen Brunson and they're like, oh,
(52:48):
they don't really fit. Well, Jalen's been like an MVP
guard play in New York. Well let's try Kyrie. Well,
now Kyrie doesn't perfectly work for him. We're falling in
love with this great hyper offensive player Moody, difficult needs ball,
won't defend. You know, is he gonna end up Carmelo
(53:10):
Anthony where he has this early success in Denver and
never really then galvanizes people. I mean you start looking
at the great players of all time. Everybody needed a
running mate, Like Magic galvanized people. Lebron galvanized people. Michael didn't,
but he found a running mate, right Like some guys
don't do that, but they find a guy. Tim Duncan
(53:31):
finds his Tony Parker, Steph finds his clay Like. It's
way harder to find a two because it's not just
the player, it's the temperament. McHale was the college You
wouldn't remember this because you're young. He led the nation
in rebounding. He was known as a defensive guy that
rebounded at Minnesota, and he came to the NBA with
all these weird moves and he was super long. Kind
(53:54):
of an unorthodox looking scorer, but he was a great rebounder,
a shot blocker in college and byrd was a score. Well,
Michae could have scored more, but he's like, Okay, I'm
going to be part of this bosh in Miami. I
want to be part of this Kevin Love and Cleveland Lebron,
I'm going to be part of it. Like Luca's gonna
make you feel small. He's not gonna help you on
(54:16):
the defensive end. He's not gonna you're gonna get the
ball late in the shot clock with him. I think
lucas harder to play with than people think. And I
you say, well, Michael was difficult, but Michael got the
right coach, also found a very willing Robin, and then
he had high functioning players. Kurran Packson became gms like
(54:39):
they knew how to play with Michael. They understood Michael
was the guy those Bowl teams had really high. Bj
Armstrong becomes a power agent, like you had a lot
of guys around Michael that knew how to play the
game and appeal to his senses and his alpha. That's
hard like that that Lucas gonna be hard to play with,
(55:00):
and I think we have to come to terms with it.
Speaker 5 (55:03):
He's entering a very important phase of his basketball development
because he's starting to just slightly plateau a little bit.
And you know, I love the way you broke it down,
Like you have to be willing to buy into this
like larger concept of the team because for instance, like
you can break it down on a simple math level. Okay, Luca,
high pick and roll is worth you know, one point
(55:24):
two points per possession. Therefore, if we run it one
hundred times in a game, we're going to score one
hundred and twenty points. That's great, you know what I mean.
But there is a basketball team is a living organism
and all the pieces fit together, and like it would
behove Luca to start to learn how to adjust his
game to fit better with others because of the specific
(55:45):
fact that he will be on more talented teams as
time go along. This has worked. He went to the
Western Conference finals last year. I'm not trying to criticize
him overall in terms of what he's capable of, but
the reality is is like, hey, if you you know,
give the ball to Kyrie and maybe instead of running
a hi I pick and roll where you dribble the
air out of the basketball for seventeen seconds. Maybe you
run down the floor and come off of a wide
(56:06):
screen and use that as a dribble handoff and get downhill.
You can use your same skill set, that same vision,
that same size and strength and shot making ability more
within the flow of what a team can do as
a unit together, and then embracing getting in shape to
be able to be a more of an impact player defensively.
I think, look, here's the thing, the pouting. I absolutely
(56:28):
believe that has a negative effect on the psyche of
a basketball team when they see their star constantly bitching
and moaning at the refs and when he's constantly not
running back on defense and you can tell his head
is not in it. I again, I loved how you
brought up Carmelo Anthony because that's such an interesting comp.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
I mean, they're christ different positions, but in everybody said
they love Carmelo. Man, he gave you it was about
Carmelo getting his shot. He wouldn't even adjust to a
three point shot like it was bizarrely rigid in his
style of play.
Speaker 5 (57:01):
One hundred percent like they're not the same player obviously,
It's more just relative to the rest of the league
and the way his progression went, Like like Lebron was
a little bit better than Carmelo, and over the years,
Lebron kept getting better and Mellow just kind of stayed
the same. I mean, you got moderately better in some
areas of his offensive skill set, but he never became
an impact defensive player. He never became a top tier playmaker.
(57:24):
He never evolved in those other areas of his game.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
And was and was threatened by yes, yes, And I
think Luca at times feels a little threatened. First of all,
he's from outside of the country, so players like that,
I mean, you have to ingratiate yourself to a new
culture and a new country. That's really difficult. The other thing,
Jason is if you'll get Dirk Novinsky and Dallas probably
(57:48):
as beloved a player as the league's had. Everybody loved Dirk,
not everybody loves Luca. He's got a much more temperamental,
moody personality, so he's naturally gonna create some disharmony in
the room. He's just a moody guy. Dirk wasn't, so
(58:10):
the Mavericks multiple times switched pieces with Dirk. Almost you know,
almost everything worked with Dirk. It just didn't get a championship,
but like he didn't have there was no like clashes
of culture. Everybody liked Dirk, nobody likes Luca. Like it's
a big difference. I think Luca is a better player.
But at this point, somebody said this years ago to me,
(58:32):
They're like, in football, halftime, defense goes to the right,
offense goes to the left. In baseball, a third of
the teams in the bullpen, it's thirteen dudes on the
bench every practice on that plane, Like if one guy's
music's too loud on the plane. Now you have headphones now,
but you know years ago it's like one guy can
(58:54):
ruin an NBA locker room, and if the star is difficult,
it's a bad locker room. I think the maps are
a bit of an s show right now. And I
think Luca, I mean again, they're gonna they're gonna put
the pr people to work in Dallas. It's all good.
Luca is gonna love it. But when you watch him play,
(59:16):
he aggravates me at times with his barking to the officials,
Like on every play.
Speaker 5 (59:24):
It's such a love hate relationship for me because as
a basketball fan, there's so many things with Luca that
I'm drawn to. Like I he is one of the
best players that I've ever seen in terms of getting
beating people off the dribble without an athletic advantage, which
is so hard to do. It's like it's kind of
the Austin Reeves thing, like it's all it's all misdirection,
and and like having every move a revocably attached to
(59:46):
a counter move that's equally as effective, and in never
telegraphing your moves. And like Luca, there's so many things
that I love about his game and I hate watching
him because of his approach. Not only would the heliocentric
you know, just dribble the air the basketball every time,
but also with the attitude stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
And again it's a crossroads.
Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
He's either going to be the Carmelo of this era
or he's going to be an all time great. And
you know what, you know, what's interesting is if you
would ask everybody two years ago, you know, or all
of you just say last year during the Western Conference Finals,
who are the two best players you know that you'd
want for the next ten years, it'd be Jiannis and
Luca and he'd be pretty close, right Like, they'd be
neck and neck with a slight edge to Giannis. I
(01:00:25):
hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations
where Yannis just dramatically decorates himself because Luca Plateau's that's
a problem potential.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I mean, listen, Lebron was more physically gifted than Carmelo,
but as they drifted apart, a lot of it was
Lebron got along with more players, could play with more players,
was more amenable to different styles. I mean, Miami had
no size. He and Wade were duplication. He never liked
Mario Chalmers. I mean it was like they threw him
(01:00:54):
with Ray Allen's and Shane Battier's and Mike Miller's and
Lebron made it work. At the time, Spot was a
kid coach and Lebron made it work. And then he
goes to Cleveland again and he makes it work, and
he goes to Los Angeles and he makes it work.
If you give Lebron, I mean, Jr. Smith was fun,
but I think people forget he and Lebron were pretty
(01:01:14):
good together, and Jr. Smith was weird and you know,
a little eccentric and some viewed as difficult, kind of
an iso act, you know, super talented. Lebron made it work.
Lebron and him were close, despite that one time out
right that they called so And I think Jannis sort
(01:01:35):
of is amenable to a lot of different teammates and players.
Luca so far isn't like I mean, look at they
just bring in Jay Crowder and then Joe Ingles and
Drew Holliday and Chris Middleton was like they stole him.
I think from like Detroit, He's worked with all of them.
He works with everybody, and Brook Lopez another big He's
(01:01:56):
not threatened at all, Like it matters a lot, and
it's just like I always felt Carmelo was threatened. Luca
feels a little threatened. Jannis never does. Lebron never has.
I mean, God, he goes into Miami, it's d Wade City.
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
And it's like, all right, let's go for it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I mean he could have picked anywhere to go, right,
he goes to the probably the single most beloved player
in any city. I'll go to your city. I mean
that was rife with issues. Could you have seen Carmelo
going down there and making it work, his insecurities would
have just flourished. So I yeah, I'm not I'm not
anti Luca, but it's just like we've got to have
(01:02:35):
I think we're moving to the second phase, which is okay.
Not all these issues are Carmelo Anthony's teammates. Summer Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
The Volume.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
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