Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to debate whether Aaron Rodgers can stay healthy for a full seventeen game season (3:00) and what the giant contract extension for Jalen Waddle means for the future of Tua (7:30). Then they dive into the strange marriage between “big brand” Russell Wilson and the lunch-pail culture of the Pittsburgh Steelers and whether it will last (11:30).
Next, Colin is joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1 to discuss Caitlin Clark’s “messy” start to her WNBA career (21:00) and why the WNBA is actually MORE physical than the NBA (28:00). Then, they debate the reasons why no young NFL quarterbacks say they want to emulate Tom Brady and instead choose more flashy guys like Aaron Rodgers (30:00) They wrap up with their 16 round NFL starting quarterback draft (38:30)!
Finally, Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the massive game 1 from Kristaps Porzingis, why he was the difference maker, and why “small ball” only worked for the Warriors (49:00). They also discuss the Lakers pursuit of Dan Hurley for their next head coach and why the Lakers HAD to take a big swing (54:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
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Speaker 2 (01:33):
All right, Former NFL scout John Middlecoff, I'm always try
to be somewhat delicate with Aaron Rodgers because I'm viewed
as anti Aaron. But last year, sixty quarterbacks played in
the league. And if I just said to you, said,
forget the teams and the names, forty year old quarterback
oft an achilles surgery with a makeshift, old and really
(01:56):
young offensive line in a better conference, just that scream.
The quarterback plays seventeen games I think lost in this
this Jets improvement, and people love their roster is, Hey,
they're a Breee Hall injury from being a have to
pass offense, have to pass. And now the good news,
they shouldn't be in shootouts, Aaron shouldn't be forced to
(02:18):
throw forty four times a game. But they got one back.
And I tend to believe that championship teams are built
when you have your seven to eight best players all
in their prime. Like Detroit right now, Jared's in his prime.
Hutcheson moved into it. That running back may be into
it now, Amaran Saint Brown, Panay Sewel, You're getting a
(02:41):
lot of Porida. They're all like moving into their prime.
And you start looking at Green Bay and it's like,
I guess Breece probably is, Garrett Wilson still raw a
lot of their defensive talent, Sauce Gardner's probably moving into it.
But they got a lot of guys that aren't there
or were never there. I PFF last week had the
(03:03):
Kansas City roster number two, and I was like, they're
bad at tackling, don't have a number one receiver. I
don't know, it's not the second best roster of the league.
I look at the Jets and I just keep saying,
if you gave me over under fifteen games on Aaron,
I'd bet the under.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'd be like this, did you see the clip last
week of him scrambling to his right and kind of limping. Yeah,
And whether you tell me it's blister prevention or whatever,
that has to be pretty concerning, because I will say
this last year at this time, and remember he dealt
with a calf a little in OTAs. But when you
saw him move around and he was healthy, he looks
(03:37):
somewhat spry. He's forty years old, and we have, i
would say, pretty recent data of some legendary guys falling
off a cliff. Matt Ryan different Matt Ryan, and I
would put him on the lower end of these players.
Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger. Most of my life
when I was a kid in the nineties, guys got
(03:58):
to like thirty five in all pro sports and we're done.
And then Brady kind of changed it. Lebron kind of
changed it. Most people fall off a cliff, Hey, well,
I'm kind of expecting yeah, and he's that's crazy. But
he's not quite as quick anymore. He's not quite the athlete.
Why he's thirty four, He's not twenty six. Aaron's forty forty.
(04:20):
And part of the reasons he's older, right because played
several years in college red shirted, gray shirted in the pros,
didn't play for a while, so he's actually older, even
though he hasn't been playing technically as long as some
of those guys like Peyton Manning when he was forty.
But I think there's a very good chance if you
just base it up the history of sports, it usually
ends poorly. Usually don't do John Elway. This one's for John,
(04:42):
especially with the Jets, right, I mean, their offensive coordinator
is not any good because she's just not I mean,
most teams in the league laugh at that situation. And
he's there for one reason and one reason only, which
I'm for the coach and the quarterback having a good relationship.
That's how you and your producers have good relate Like
there's it should be healthy if the guy is good
at his job. Josh McDaniel's pay and Tom Brady made
(05:05):
a lot of sense. Kyle shanahan and his quarterbacks for
Sean McVay and Matt Stafford, this one, this guy's just
not viewed as good enough. And last year when Aaron left,
it was an abomination and these stories because of the organization.
What if they start slow now, I actually think they
have an opportunity. I don't think their schedule is that
harderly after the Niner.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Game, it's a weird schedule. It's a lot of night
games in short weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They're just gonna be covered like the Lakers or the Yankees.
And we know things get weird with that franchise. And
even if it's all about football, none of the other
extracurricular stuff. If it's weird on offense, they're just gonna
point at the quarterback and the offensive coordinator, and then
the head coach is gonna be up there like saying,
who knows what? It could snowball into weirdness really quick,
(05:48):
like Aaron said, if I don't perform, we're all getting fired.
That's what's on the line here.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I thought last week was really interesting. So Miami signs
Jalen Waddle to a massive deal with Tyreek Hill already
signing a stupendous contract. Okay, what are we saying here?
So if Tua just signs the tenth biggest contract, that's
Josh Allen now, who will get an extension to raise
(06:17):
they're one hundred and five million guy, one hundred and
five million bucks. I think something close to that on
three dudes all on offense. Not a pass rusher, not
a corner, not an interior defensive lineman, not an offensive tackle,
two receivers in a quarterback. So I almost wondered three.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Small guys too.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Was Miami saying, listen, we're making our bet. We're just
not going to have This is our way of telling
you you're not getting fifty five million dollars. We're just
not going to give you that. Because I don't know.
I know Dak has a market. I've talked to two
gms who have.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Told Raiders would sign him yesterday.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yesterday, and I think very quickly, you know, if the
dre May thing looks awful, they'd sniff at it. I
mean New Orleans with Derek Carr, I don't think they're
a lot Giants Daniel Jones, what is to his market?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I don't think it would be that good. But he's
not my type player. But we also know when you
hit free agency at that position, people overspend. But who
is giving two one hundred and fifty million dollars on
the open market. Who is I can't see. Did you
see the picture of him at the charity event. He
looked like he was on ozebic. He looks tiny, He
(07:32):
looks really really skinny. Yeah, I'm not into small guys
who aren't great athletes with average arms. Just not really
my style. Yeah, I like my quarterbacks to be a
little bigger, a little more mobile. With Howitzer's h but
because when you look at in theory, he should be
this kind of mobile little guy. But he is much
closer to Jared Goff the way he plays. I've said
(07:54):
it over and over. Well, here's what Dak does has
proven Now he's given me three straight years of twelve wins.
Do I want to give him fifty plus million dollars?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I do not.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Is there an opportunity that if he gets hot one
postseason they could win a couple of games, like an
Eli Manning situation. I don't believe TWA as that capability.
One what we witnessed last year. I mean, if this
was like the ND five hundred, they were up like
several laps, the Bills were leaking oil, they were six
and six. Then the season ends, they win the division,
(08:24):
and they're hosting playoff games and Miami has to go
on the road. And even when I saw a Vech
at the combine, He's like, I've been in the NFL
a long time. That was the coldest game I've ever
stood on the field for when he played the Chiefs,
and we felt pretty good about our chances because we
knew that offense couldn't function in the freezing cold. But
they wouldn't have had a chance in a cold weather
game against Baltimore, against any of these teams. So part
(08:46):
of it is the AFC. If you spend two if
you spend all this money on to it, because at
the end of the day, could dak It hasn't gone
well these last three years. But beat a party, beat up,
you know, a Jared Goff if he plays right, How
is Tua ever outplay Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Herbert now
with Harbaugh, Josh Allen. It's not happening. It doesn't mean
he's not a solid NFL starter. But once you start
(09:09):
talking about the money, this is not baseball. You don't
have an unlimited on of cap space. Tyreek Hill, He's
one of the greatest players I've ever seen. No problem
investing Jaylen Wattle. You draft him high, he's a productive player.
I get it too, Like, why can't we just play
this out? Why does every quarterback have to get an it?
Jared Goff proved last year. He went toe to toe
with Matt Stafford in the playoff game. He won the
(09:29):
second playoff game against Baker Mayfield. He was great against
the forty nine ers, Like they have tangible evidence now
in the playoffs, let alone the regular season. Now for
a year and a half, where's that evidence against Tua? Like, yeah,
he plays well in October. Well, you're in the AFC
where most of these teams come November and December. I
looked at their schedule whenever the schedules came out, they
had three or four games post you know, Halloween. They
(09:51):
get a little cold, Colin get a little cold. What
if you can't do it this year, If you can't
win the division and host a playoff game, which they
would have to do to have success in the playoffs
because of their climate, what's the point of extending them
just to say you have a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The Pittsburgh Steelers are at a really interesting crossroads. So
Mike tom can Mike Tomlin can get a little prickly
when his future is discussed, but he has not beaten
an elite quarterback in the playoff game in forever, and
that's just he.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Doesn't want a playoff game in almost a decade.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. So, and it's interesting they're not paying anything for
Russell Russell, you know, any chance he gets to say, boy,
I'd love to see packages for Justin Fields at wide receiver.
It's like, I mean, that's so weary. You know, they're
all talking about and Justin doesn't want any part of that,
and he shouldn't want any part of it. But I
did have somebody that I trust kind of that reports
(10:47):
on the Steelers say, Russell, the Pittsburgh's.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Going to be. It's very.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That culture there is very grind or oriented. Even your stars.
Big Ben was kind of a small town guy. TJ.
Watt Midwestern guy. You know, the lavian bells come in
and very quickly they kind of feel disconnected from it.
It's it's a grinder operation. And I'm not saying Russell
doesn't grind and work hard, but he's got a brand.
(11:16):
He's just different. I mean, it's just I mean, call
it what you want. Nobody gets called out in this
league as much as Russell and somebody that has good
connective tissue to the Steelers said, there's already been a
couple of situations where you know, he's he's Russ and
these are the Steelers. It's a and I say this,
(11:37):
Green Bay and Pittsburgh have a very lunch pale quality. Now,
the Steelers usually have elite defensive personnel. Packers are better
on the offensive side in terms of efficiency. Packers have
also had offensive coaches. But if you had to do
crystal ball on Russell Wilson, what it looks like end
of the year's schedule's awful. But if you had to
(11:58):
have a crystal ball on Russell Wilson, another quarterback who
almost inexplicably got worse fast without an injury, just got
worse fast nearing thirty five, what is your crystal ball
on Pittsburgh?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
If I had to go over under on Justin Field's
first start with the Steelers, it'd probably be around five
and a half. I think he's in and I think
he's in early. The other thing is, you know Russell
has to ingratiate himself. What do you think of Mike
Tomlin and the Steelers. I think TJ. Watt, Cam Hayward,
make A Fitzpatrick. I mean those guys in Mike are
kind of on the same page, right, I mean they
(12:30):
feel like part of the operation. Do they feel like
Russell Wilson guys? I mean when you think do you
think TJ. Watt and MIKEA. Fitzpatrick? You never say the
word brand. You think ass kickers and football players. And
I just can't imagine. I just don't think he's good enough.
And the margin Ferrera in this conference dinking and duncan.
You could argue if it starts slow, like what if
(12:52):
they're owing to and it's just like what are we
doing on? It might not even get to five and
a half because what where's his equity with the operation?
Denver was They're they're not paying them anything. They're paying
them less than a million dollars. Honestly, if it got
really what, you could cut them and you wouldn't even
think twice. And that happens to a lot of NFL players.
Once you start getting the team three and four, your
(13:13):
equity with the operation disappears. And it's a performance based business,
so no one's gonna want to hear about anything except
touchdown passes, and I don't know. I mean the guy
we've seen the last couple of years. I don't know
if his confidence is gone. I don't know if, but
he's been a pretty marginal player now for three straight
years because that last year in Seattle and then everything
that happened the last two years in Denver. I also think,
(13:35):
if you're fan bases in the NFL, sneaky have a
lot of juice because that's kind of where the owners.
You know, he listened to radio that they read they do,
So you think Pittsburgh if all of a sudden listen,
I don't know. I would bet justin Fields he's probably
closer to what we've seen his whole career. But we've
also seen guys improve with that skill set when they
(13:56):
get with the right coordinator. Arthur Smith resurrected Ryan Tannehill.
If I'm a fan and we're zeroing too, like I'm
not watching Russell Wilson, well, i've seen this from Afar
putting the young kid, and let's just see if we
could figure something out with this guy that has a
lot of physical tools. Now, quarterbacks a lot about a
lot more than running fast and throwing hard. His pocket
(14:17):
presence has been a major question mark. But what did
Arthur Smith do with Ryan Tannel? They ran the ball.
He gave him a lot of easy looks, kept it
pretty simple. Now, I don't think they really have Derrick Henry,
you know, Najee Harris, okay back, Jalen Warred pretty explosive.
But if their defense is good. Honestly, if I was
a Steeler fan, I just want to see justin fields
right out. I wouldn't even want to see Russell Wilson.
(14:37):
I just like, can we resurrect this guy?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, it's interesting because Arthur Smith, his history is a
lot of throws over the middle of the field, and
that's not what Russell does.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's just her deep go routes. That's just throw.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, because you know his size, he can struggle. Kyler
Murray admits this. Tua acknowledges this. Sometimes I struggle to
see over the line. So of all, I've been doing
this now thirty years of talking sports, and you know
I do a segment every Monday. Colin right, Colin wrong.
I have big opinions miss all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Russell.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I don't ever remember a player in my life at
that position that I was sure he was great, and
then after a year, I'm pretty sure he's just B
minus and there's no injury. He's not to thirty six.
He works really hard, Like it's a really hard ask.
(15:36):
You start trying to figure out. You say, well, he
didn't get along. Seattley wasn't beloved, So no injury, He's
still elusive. It's like he put weade on in the
wrong spot. He got a little thick. I find Russell
to be a complete historic outlier, like Matt Ryan, never
moved well, didn't have a big arm, kind of thin,
(15:59):
and it felt the game quickly passed him by. It
got very mobile and athletic, and he wasn't you know
there there there, there are players at the end. Philip
Rivers was never athletic. He got like the most unathletic
quarterback in the league. Eli Manning just felt like he
was out of gas. Russell, You're like last year in Seattle,
he's a wizard and then he's bad and then Peyton
(16:22):
makes him okay, And I'm like, I don't think he
sees the field. I don't think he sees guys and
I from people close and around Sean like that's what
the film said he just didn't see the open guys, mhm.
Time for twice monthly Nick Wright Conversation. Phil Knight has
(16:47):
a manifesto when he started Nike. He wrote down ten things,
and a lot of this you could see in Air
the movie Air Ben Affleck and and number nine on
it was this will be met see. And one of
the real things I talked about today about the WNBA
was we are seeing this moment in time where this league.
(17:09):
And I've always said, I'm in the omelet business, not
the egg business. I don't make you interesting. When you're made,
I talk about you, not my job to make the omelet.
I'll report on the omelet. So I didn't talk about
the WNBA because, frankly, it didn't get ratings. I mean, Jesus,
the finals got seven hundred thousand. Now you have a
catalyst that explodes. When a business explodes. It could be
a tech business, pharmaceutical business, it could be a law firm.
(17:32):
When something explodes, shit gets messy, and we're in the
messy phase for the WNBA. Their early schedule for the
fever is insane. They're played twice as many games they.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Played they played colin from previous Friday until Sunday, that
nine day stretch. Yeah, they played as many games as
the Aces have played all year. They it was and
it was again from a marketing standpoint, I got it
put Caitlyn as many places as possible. From a the
you know, the Fever played eleven game, the Finding champs
(18:05):
have played six. Now that maybe that was sneaky, brilliant.
And then I'll let you finish. I'm sorry because it
will lead to I think Caitlin being awesome at the
end of the year because all of a sudden, she's
going to be the most rested player in every game
because they got they have no more back to backs,
they have no more three games in four nights, so
(18:27):
the rest of the year, she's gonna have real time
in between it. But they were, they but go ahead,
you were you were making a point that I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
So it's just an it's an exploding business for the
first time it was. You know, let's we all know
the backstory in the WNBA that it was subsidized by
the NBA for a decade. Now they moved into smaller arenas.
It wasn't terribly profitable. Las Vegas has sort of figured
it out first to be the first franchise that's making
real money almost has an n ideal with its players.
(18:55):
But the point being is this is an explosion, and
and you see it in tech all the time. You
just quite it. It's hard to predict the unpredictable, and so.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think so much of the Caitlyn Clark WNBA commentary
has actually been some weird media meta commentary about the
commentary like it has been very like the basketball stuff,
I think is pretty straightforward. This is a hell of
(19:26):
a rookie class. Cameron Brank is going to be a star.
Angel Reese is going to be a star, Caitlyn Clark
is going to be a superstar, and maybe those other
two will as well. And they have brought a lot
of eyeballs. Caitlyn Clark's team seems to really be struggling,
probably in part because they had the number one pick
the last two years for a reason and partially because
of this schedule. And is there some predictable jealousy either
(19:52):
just based purely on attention and economics? Is some of
it about ads rookie some hazing short? All that stuff
kind to me is a pretty straightforward sports story up
to and including the foul heard around the world. That
was just a hard flagrant, not even a flagrant too,
like it was a hard foul. But the commentary has
(20:15):
really been about the commentary. Yeah, and there's so many
levels to it. So I want to start with the
first thing you said, which is like thought exercise. Let's
say in five years there is a Tiger Woods like
(20:35):
athlete and and some would say, oh, we've already had it,
but no Tiger Woods esque in that he captures everyone's
attention in hockey. Do we then need to go on
the air and be like, we are so sorry that
we weren't covering hockey before we did a moral disservice.
(21:00):
I don't feel we do, no, And so I don't
feel when folks have been like, well you're new to
the party, like, well, in our specific business, the party
just got going now. It doesn't mean it was not
worth a worthwhile league. It doesn't mean I'm not glad
(21:20):
it exists. But I on my show, I barely talk
about professional baseball. I don't talk anything about hockey. It'd
be one thing if on our shows we were talking
eleven different sports and just like nope, we have time
for cricket. But we're not making time for the WNBA.
(21:41):
That's not the truth, that's not how these shows work.
And there has been to me an element of what
I would compare to the hipster band phenomenon, which is
if there is a band that all of a sudden
is playing arenas, but a year ago was playing eight
hundred person venues, the folks who were the fan of
(22:05):
the band then sometimes are like, oh, you know, I
was here before it was popular, and they're almost snarky
towards the new people as opposed to being like, hey,
I always knew this was awesome, Glad you're here now.
So I don't love that, and I think so. I
think that is problematic on one direction from a media perspective.
(22:29):
Here's another thing I think is problematic from a media
perspective in the other direction. Folks who clearly have the
attitude of you should be happy I'm even talking about
your sport. Therefore, none of my opinions are open for
criticism because you're just lucky to be getting my opinions.
I think that's bullshit too. And I think if it
(22:52):
were if it were hockey, or if it were the MLS,
I think people would have any your time with it
because there is the gender aspect of it, people are
nervous about how we talk about it. And then you
add to it that there is also a very obvious
(23:12):
now we can talk about how significant, but an obvious
at least component of a racial component, which is it
is odd that this league that is majority black, a
disproportionate amount of its stars have been white women throughout
history and now its biggest star is a white woman.
That is an added landmine or a complication, whatever you
(23:35):
want to put it. And I think because people are
so afraid of all of this, everyone's just freaking out
and losing their mind about a foul and who's talking what,
And all of a sudden, now the WNBA, without anyone mentioning, hey,
the Connecticut Sun are undefeated, is taking up more airtime
than it has in the last five years combined. It's
a fascinating media story as much as anything.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I thought. James Jones, who's been watching the WNBA for years,
had the most prescient, prescient point on it. I thought
it was really smart. I didn't think about this, He says.
The biggest difference between the NBA and the WNBA is
the NBA is much more vertical. You may occasionally have
(24:19):
a woman break away in the WNBA and dunk it.
Men go through the lane, jump over other men and
jam it, often behind their head. Both leagues can shoot,
both leagues can move their feet, both leagues can rebound,
both leagues can pass. The NBA men jump over other
six eight men and dunk it in their face regularly,
(24:41):
he said. Because of that, the WNBA is more physical.
You score through physical banging body. You don't go over,
you go into.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He said.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It. Thought about that fascinating. He said, the WNBA is
actually more physical than the NBA. The NBA is no
hand check. You can't stay in front of anybody. The
bigs all shoot threes, the lanes wide open. That's not
the WNBA. You score bully ball. And he said, so
if you watched the WNBA for years, it's way more
(25:15):
physical than the NBA. That's fascinating, fascinating. So I'm gonna
throw something at you that I think is fascinating. I
don't think we've ever broached this topic. So this week
I was reading on the internet. There was an NBA
player we know, Jason Tatum, really coveted time with Kobe Bryant.
He really enjoyed time. Their basketball ideology is different. You know,
(25:40):
one is the ultimate at times selfish closer. The other
guy's more collaborative, more of a giver. But it was
it was a player talking about his career and he
said it was Klay Thompson who said, I'm not here
without Kobe Bryant. Like Kobe Bryant was Messiah. Everything funneled
(26:02):
through Kobe. And it's really interesting since his death, people
are often more willing to say that when somebody passes,
to honor them, to say God, that person meant so
much to me. And we've heard lots of people say it.
Lebron said it about Michael Jordan.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Most just said it about Clay or about Kobe. Kyrie
just said he was about him being a mentor and
a guy he looked up to. All of it.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yep, don't you find it fascinating? Find a single quarterback
who says I structure my whole game around Brady. I've
never seen one. It's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Oh that's interesting because I thought you were going to
say Aaron there, and I was like, oh, Caleb said, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
A lot of guys, Yes, Aaron. I can name four
off the top line.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Okay, that's where I thought you were you were going,
and I was like, oh, I think you're wrong here,
but Brady, you're right out.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That isn't that fascinating? And so here's what I thought.
This is my take is that there are a lot
of ways to be successful, but the most great athletes
are entertainers, artists, singers. They're all really artists. They're really
all artists. Brady, less so than any great athlete at all,
(27:26):
bordered on mechanical and efficient. He basically was the cheat code.
He had the answers to the test. He literally walked
to the line. He didn't have to make dramatic plays
because he audibled out of them. He almost never got
sacked because he could see it coming. And so artists
(27:46):
Caleb and Mahomes and Lamar, I mean, look at the
best quarterbacks now, they're movers and Kyler and I mean
Herbert is another very mechanical processor and quarterback. I don't
think Herbert will have a lot of people that say,
even if he won Super Bowls, Justin was my guy.
Is that Brady, for all his greatness, is viewed as
(28:08):
almost robotic in his dominance, and it doesn't curry love
or favor or duplication from young people.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
So so I did. You're right, we've never talked about this,
and I so I've never This is I enjoy when
we do this because I am hearing this for the
first time. I haven't if you've talked about it on
the show or on the pot, I haven't heard it.
So this is the first time my brain's ever considering this,
but it is I'm trying. I also was trying to think, like,
(28:41):
have I heard anyone like the only Mahomes talks about Brady,
but only in the He's the goat, he's got seven
super Bowl rings. I want to do, but not as
far as I mimicked myself after him. So I I
wonder why that is and what you have You know,
(29:01):
what you've landed on I think is probably right, which
is I Now again, you're much better at the analogies
than me. Uh, certainly on the fly. But there's a
level of like when you look at the wealthiest people
(29:22):
in world history, I don't know what the guy's name is,
but the dude who started us steel is on the list.
But the reason I don't know what the name is
is because like nobody's been like that's who I'm gonna be.
But they say Steve Jobs, you know what I mean?
They say now Rockefeller, us Elon Musk, those things. Rockefeller
(29:45):
is probably because he put his name on a lot
of things, but there is a level of that. I
remember Brady being on your show around the time he
went to Tampa, maybe a year after, maybe after he'd
won the Super with the last Super Bowl in Tampa,
I don't know, but I remember you talking to him
about retiring and he said, well, it's never been easier.
(30:11):
He didn't use those words, but what his point he
said with the words he did use, I think were
I have all the answers to the test, now why
would I stop taking it? I remember like that exact
thing where he was like, I, like you said, I
go to the line, I know exactly what the defense
is doing, so I know exactly the play we have
to be in and boom and it also, and this
(30:34):
is a quote I've said to you before, but it
seth Payne, who played in the NFL for a number
of years, does radio now in Houston, and I worked
with them there. He would talk about how offensive coordinators
would leave the Patriots and think, oh, I can turn
(30:55):
this quarterback into Tom Brady because or a poor man
Tom Brady, because Tom Brady was not impressive from a
measurables talent standpoint. And what Seth said is, but none
of those guys left the Patriots was like, I can
turn this receiver into Randy Moss because it was obvious.
No you can't. And his point was Brady's brain is
(31:19):
Randy Moss's, and discipline is Randy Moss's. Forty time and vertical.
They just didn't people because you can't see it. People think, oh,
Jimmy Garoppolo can do it because he's got you know,
these guys can Matt Castle can do it. But they couldn't.
But even though the measurables were the same, So it
(31:40):
does make sense. What if your biggest talent is not
apparent to people watching you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's just a it's not an aesthetic.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Correct, right, like there there are probably more people. It's
so fascinating you say that, because it's right. We have
all heard more quarterbacks say I grew up wanting to
be Mike Vick than wanting to be Tom Brady. We
have heard more people say, certainly more people a generation
(32:14):
ago I want to be Dan Marino. Then I want
to you know what I mean? Then I want to
be Brady and Aaron.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Aaron is clearly generationally the guy that most wanted to.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Be right and there is a level of And so
I guess since you brought up Kobe, the basketball comp
would be how many guys came up? How many guys
have we seen to feel like? You know who I
modeled my game after. Tim Duncan won fifty games every year, right,
But Duncan, Duncan, same exact era as Kobe, and in
(32:46):
my opinion one slot on the all time list above him,
never had a down year, never missed the playoffs, you know,
all the ruthlessly efficient. But nobody has tried to be
Tim Duncan. Nobody see he came into the league twenty
five years ago. Not a single person that I can
think of came into the league being like, that's who
(33:07):
I'm trying to be Tim Duncan. And I don't think
now I understand some of that's personality, but also it
is because nobody could deny what he did was effective
and great, but it wasn't. It doesn't seem fun to
emulate like you will have more people, I guess on
(33:28):
that note, and this is wearing a bit of a
Kyrie renaissance, and I'm happy for him about it. But
you will have more people a generation from now that say,
you know, I grew up trying to be Kyrie than
I grew up trying to be Chris Paul. Yeah, even
though you know what I mean. I understand Chris Paul
(33:49):
never won, but Iverson had that, oh, without a doubt,
with an iconic, important, influential player in a way, a
lot of guys who maybe were more successful warrant. That
is interesting that nobody, nobody says I tried to be
Tom in that fact that is That is fact, and
(34:11):
I'm trying to think if someone had said it. But
a lot of people call them the goat. In fact,
basically everyone does. But as far as who they modeled
their game after, it is unique. And a lot of
people say, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Let's say this right now. It doesn't even the timeline.
You're a general manager, so you have to come up
with a timeline. Okay, all right, but I'm a thing counts.
We're both gms. Okay, I'll give you first because you
want mahomes.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I do. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I'll go Josh Allen.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
All right, if I'm being honest. My next pick is
Caleb okay, and I know he would have been available
and later, but I couldn't getting I understand. I understand
that that is, he would have been available later.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But I okay, yeah, go ahead, Okay, I'll take Lamar
Jackson number four.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
Okay, that's then I feel it great because this is
the guy I would have taken. Next, I will take c.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
J okay now, just on value proposition, although I worry
about his injuries. I'll take Joe Burrow at six.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Yeah, I'm worried about those injuries. Buddy, I agree with you.
So there's a guy that you and I would both
only because I know you love him so much. I
might want him, but I'm not. I just am sorry.
I'm going through the league quickly. Here, all right, this
(35:59):
is there, this is not This does not make sense
from a value perspective timeline, but I'm trying to win this.
GM is on the hot seat and he's trying to win.
Right now. I've taken Matt Stafford.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
By the way, I absolutely love Matt Stafford.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
I know you do. That's why I was worried. I
was like, you're gonna swoop in and get him.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, So because of that, I'll take Justin Herbert eight.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Okay, that's all right, that's good. I'll take Trevor.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, okay, hold on, I'm gonna take Jordan Love.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Oh that's a good pick.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
So now we have.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
I gotta tell you, Jordan Loves a good pick. All right. Now,
I gotta think I'm just going through, like in my head,
the divisions. All right, well, no, how many picks are
we doing? We do sixteen?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, you have Mahomes me, Allen you, Caleb me, Lamar you,
c J. Stroud, me, Burrow you, Stafford. I'm on Herbert, you, Trevor, me,
Jordan Love. You're eleven.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Yep, all right, I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Not going to twelve.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
No, hold on, let's go to sixteen. Let's just go
to sixteen. We each get three more picks. I'm just
making sure that I'm not leaving out any obvious teams.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Okay, okay, all.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Right, I am all right. I'm gonna this is gonna
be this again. This guy was gonna be available later,
but now I'm going upside. I'm going to take with
the eleventh pick of the draft, Anthony.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Richardson, Well, I get it. I like him.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
I'm gonna sit your top five pick. Whatever you Yeah,
go ahead, I'm gonna take Jared Goff twelve. I knew
you would. I could have taken Golf and just held
him ransom on you and made you trade me a bounty,
but I didn't want to do it. All right now,
all right, at this point in the draft, I know
who I'm taking it for. Well, unless I take him first.
(38:04):
At this point in the draft, I am now comfortable
taking Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Oh Jesus, I'll take Kyler Murray. I got Kyler Murray
at fourteen. I feel like, I you love Kyler. I
know he's so talented. I listen, if it's a six
foot under league, you gotta steal at number fifteen.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
This is the last pick I'm going to have, and
this is going to shock people. But again, it's my
last pick.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, so I feel.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Like I'll shoot the moon on it. I mean, I
don't know. I yeah, I'll go ahead and do it.
I don't love it, and I do feel like he
could be a pain in the ass in the locker room.
But I'm going to take Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I'm gonna take Jaden, Daniels, Jade.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And Daniels Dak undrafted. So the under our undrafted guys
to us Kirk Cousin drafted, dakt undrafted, Drake May undrafted. Understandably,
I can't believe if this thing could have gone fifty
picks and you still could have gotten Russell Wilson because
you knew I was never taken him. You just knew
(39:25):
there was no chance. Will Levice not surprising undrafted?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I don't know je I think Daniels, I think he's
got a little bit of Lamar, but better as a
rookie in the pocket. But there's a little Lamar there.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Yeah, there's there's also a little Kate Moss there as
far as his his weight, and so that is a concern,
Like the Jaden. Jaden is just so so lean that
that is a worry. But the guy goes number two
in a draft that that makes sense. JJ McCarthy obviously
didn't get drafted. Oh my god, I feel you know
(40:05):
what I feel? Can I can? I would you want
Aaron at sixteen if he were on the board? No?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I would, all right?
Speaker 5 (40:14):
Then? Can I I'm waving Aaron Rodgers so I could
pick up Baker. I forgot about Baker. I can't leave
Bake Show out of there. Bake Show is again. If
my quarterback room's eight deep, I don't need my eighth
on the depth chart. All of a sudden, annoying people,
Bake Show has team great vibes, So go ahead and
switch it and I'll take I'll take Bake Show. He's younger.
(40:38):
So here's my other takeaway from this. Just quickly, neither
one of us even considered for a moment the number
one pick of the draft a year ago. Bryce didn't
even think about it, which, by the way, the which
I think is correct, but it also is, you know,
a little concerning for Panthers fans. I love that, By
(41:00):
the way, I love those those fake drafts. I heard
you say when I was on the Herd today with you.
I didn't see when you and j Mac did it,
But when you said that you and him did the
did that draft? I instantly got jealous. I was like,
I want to do a draft.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I was like, where, what's I So I.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
Knew I was hoping to be able to do it today.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I picked Boston in six I thought they would win.
That was my draft Kings pick. I thought Jalen Brown
would play well and the Boston Celtics would win, although
Kyrie didn't offer much of anything, and I thought he'd
have a decent assist night. You know, My takeaway is
the small ball revolution in the NBA was really a
bunch of nonsense. It was Steph Curry and Draymond Green
(41:54):
who could play big. Everybody tried to duplicate it for
about four years and then everybody's like Houston, got kind
of close. Size matters and poor Zingis on both ends,
altering shots on the defensive end, he was the initial
Unicorn seven to four dribble shoot, there's nothing you can do.
It's why Wemby will take over the league next year
(42:15):
at the All Star break, is that this is a
big man's game. You know, in the NFL, you know
Bill parce Sells and the late great George Young was
a general manager for the Giants, and his whole theory
was went in doubt, just draft big guys like big
beat small, and in the NBA, length and size is
so important. And my takeaway, if that's the poor zingis
(42:39):
I get in the series Dallas Is in trouble. You know.
One of the things I said, they have such a
mature offensive team, and they're all a little different. I
mean Tatum tonight was more assist guy than he was
score guy. And I said, you know, Tatum can have
a bad night in this series and they could win
by fifteen Kyrie. Yes, an off night, they get shelled,
(43:02):
and that, to me is the difference in the series.
And I said that before I knew what I was
getting with Porzingis, But I thought, you know, the size
of porzingis the matchup problem. You know, Dallas came into
this thing, let's feel it out, and very quickly it's like, yeah,
we've got We're gonna have to go back to the
drawing board on this, and then Porzingis sits for a while.
(43:24):
But I would start with that is that you know,
if I got six guys who could all drop twenty man,
that's in a with the Apron. Now, it's hard to
get a third star. The league doesn't want it anymore.
They want you to draft and develop. That's what the
whole thing. Legal pay a lot of money. They don't
want you going to cherry picking stars Boston. This is
(43:47):
an absurdly deep offensive roster. I mean, you go look
at Porzingis last year. He was the guy for Washington.
You're like, well, that for a terrible team. That's an
All Star level player. Derek White's a five. Derek White's
a two on probably thirty percent of the teams in
the league. So I thought tonight was a little bit
of what I thought is that Dallas cannot withstand a
(44:11):
bad luker Kyrie Knight Boston Boston. If you told me
A Tatum and Derek White didn't play well, Boston could
still win. And so I just start with that, is
that Porzingis' size, he was the initial unicorn. It's it's
a problem. There's not a lot you can do. It's
a big problem.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
I thought this game was a brilliant showcase of what
makes chrisps Porzingis awesome and how he elevates the ceiling
of this Boston team. First of all, he's their only
legitimate rim protector, like Horford's a really interesting player and
does a lot to help this team on both ends
of the floor. But chrisops Porzingis is just a mountain
of a man that is really difficult to finish over
(44:51):
at the rim. In addition to that, he brings this.
There are a lot of guys that can shoot in
the NBA at the centi position, there are very few
guys at the center position that are like lasers, like
you just can't leave them open. And one of my
biggest reasons why I picked Boston is Dallas's defense is
very much geared up at the rim as like a
(45:13):
rim protection team.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That's why they were good against Minnesota.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
You know, they're.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Exactly exactly and they have some good perimeter defenders, but
they don't have a bunch of good perimeter defenders. And
so when you can really spread them out and Lively
and Gafford can't solve problems at the rim as rim protectors.
It just challenges the weak points of Dallas's offense.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
And then the.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Second piece of it with porzingis that goes beyond the
three point shooting. One of the easiest ways to counter
a ball screen is to switch it, because the whole
point of the ball screen is you can get downhill
because the guy has to chase over the top of
a screen. But if you switch it, it shuts it down.
But what makes porzingis such a valuable weapon is if
you switch it, you're putting your smaller player onto Porzingis
(45:55):
and he can just walk him down to fifteen feet
from the basket and they can toss it back to
him and he can go to work. He showed it
all in that game one. He was protecting the rim,
he was hitting trailing threes in transition, he was hitting
spot up threes and helped defense situations. He was hitting
picking pop threes, he was beating switches by posting up
around the elbow. It was everything that makes Porzingis great.
(46:18):
And I'm glad you pointed this out because everyone just
accounted for Porzingis as like available and healthy, but like
it's really hard to go thirty something days without playing
NBA basketball and then to walk in the NBA Finals,
Like I don't think I don't think we're like. It
just was so impressive the way he immediately looked comfortable
(46:40):
and immediately started thriving. But a big part of that
is he is the guy. He's the key that solves
all of the issues that Boston could have had against
this Dallas defense. He unlocks it all. I was I
was just completely blown away by him.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I founded the volume, so I tend to look at
things from a managerial position. And so I said, if
I was Rob Polinka and Genie Buss and Minnesota's got
Ant and Okac's got Chet and Sga, and then there's
Lucas twenty five, and you start looking up and down,
and you know, Jokic is still in his prime, Boston's
(47:16):
two guys are in their prime, and you start looking
around and San Antonio and Houston this year, I think
will pop, like it'll be different teams, and you start
looking around and thinking, listen, man, we got to start
drafting and developing here, like this is what the league.
If you start looking at the second Apron, what the
CBA is in the NBA, We're not going to get
a third huge star here with Lebron and a d
(47:37):
We're just this is not going to work. So we
have got to draft and develop. And so you can't
watch these playoffs and not come to this conclusion the
NBA has pivoted to young stars Katie Lebron' Steph. It's
over like that. They're not running the league anymore. Like
Tatum now is one of one of the veterans. And
(47:58):
I think my takeaway is, Okay, who who does that?
Who drafts, who builds culture, who's tough. It wasn't a
pivot away from Lebron. It was a pivot toward the league.
The league now is a draft and developed league. That's
these players are going to get rich. But the league
watched what Golden State did with KD and they didn't
(48:18):
like it, and the owners didn't like it, and the
league didn't like it. I can remember talking to fans
of the NBA being like, I hate this. This is
just not fair. And I think the league heard that
Adam Silver did not like that move at all. And
so I think the Lakers, Rob and Jeanie look at
this and think there's a change. We don't want to
be the Clippers, old, dysfunctional. You know one guy, Terrence Man,
(48:42):
that feels like he's young. You know, it's a lot
of names and great on the marquee, it's a great
movie poster. It's not really a championship team. And I
think the Lakers don't feel like it. And you know,
I just I that's my takeaways. They're looking of this
and stepping back and going we like JJ Ruddick, but
(49:02):
he has no history in drafting and developing. This is
not what he does. By the way, there's Connecticut players
in this draft, you know, there's just and also early
the last three years he's recruited almost probably every good
domestic player in the first round he's recruited or seen them.
So I think they're going to be active. And that
was my take, is that you can't watch these playoffs
(49:24):
and not see this gigantic pivot. You know, It's like
when Manning, Brady and big Ben got old and you're
watching Mahomes and Lamar and Allen. It's like, oh shit,
we got ourselves in a new league. As soon as
soon as Tom leaves, we got a new league. It's
a brand new league. And that that was my take
on it. Yours.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yeah, So I there were three reasons that I was
excited about it. The first one is exactly what you said,
the draft and development piece. I think a big part
of it too, Like you mentioned, with the cat rules changing,
it's going to be really difficult to have more than
two stars and most impossible.
Speaker 5 (49:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
And I think he specifically is gonna excel at finding
role players that are great connective pieces next to stars
because the Laker brand is gonna continue to bring in
star talent in one way or another, whether it's through
the trademarket, whether it's through free agency. They're gonna get stars,
but because of the new rules, you're not gonna get
three of them, so you're probably gonna have to and
it's gonna be about working on the margins and finding
(50:23):
discounted valuable players, which I think is something that he's
gonna excel with the second two piece two pieces of
it one. He's an offensive genius, like literally an offensive genius.
And specifically, what I find fascinating is he was capable
of generating space for his offense with multiple non shooters
(50:44):
on the floor, which I think is super fascinating on
a Laker team that has an Anthony Davis that can
struggle to shoot the basketball, that is going to probably
play a Jared Vanderbilt that struggles to shoot the basketball.
And he's he has all these interesting concepts, like he's
really good at disguising his sets. He's a big believer
in weak side action, which basically occupies help defenders by
(51:06):
making them think about what they're doing on the week
side while your stars are running ball screens on the
other side. He's super creative as a tactician, especially on
the offensive end of the floor, which I think is
going to be work wonders for a Laker offense that
can get stagnant sometimes. And then the third piece of
it is he's just a psycho. He's a psycho, he's competitive,
(51:29):
and then I think he's gonna bring enough cachet because
that's the fear, right, Like, if you're gonna play Devil's advocate,
you're like David Blatt comes over championship coach from Europe,
Lebron scoffs at him and says, I want the assistant instead, right,
So that's what you're scared of. But I actually think
Lebron has a lot more respect for Dan Hurley. I mean,
(51:50):
especially seeing as he's been kind of like watching as
a fan as he's had his success over the last
couple of years. I think he'll have some success there.
And then I complain that you NonStop this season about
Darvin Ham not holding players accountable, right, and then becoming
and then becoming a team that was really sloppy for
stretches because they didn't value individual possessions, they weren't good
(52:11):
at attention to detail. That will not fly under Dan Hurley.
He will be on those guys, and I think it'll
help a lot.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Well. I try to defend Darvin ham but he is
a defensive minded coach, and you see this in the NFL,
offense comes easier. The attention to detail from offensive coaches
is better. So like when you watch offensive like Steve Kerr,
like his he if you ever when they Mike Steve Kerr,
he picks on stuff stuff up so quickly, like like
(52:41):
I'm not seeing it. I'm watching the game. He is
a possession to possession coach. Steve Kerr, he watches every
little mistake. Mark Jackson defensive coach. I always viewed him
as more of a defensive coach. The offense could never
quite get in sync. Now, Mark did a good job
on the defensive end, but I thought with Darvin ham
Is he could get players. I thought Anthony Davis was
(53:02):
absolutely sensational defensively this year. I thought he was the
defensive player of the Year, but his offense was inconsistent.
Darvin's not gonna help you a lot there. Darvin was
a very limited offensive player. And so I think I think,
just like in football, I think coaches have vogels good
with bigs, Dan Tony's doesn't Like Biggs, coaches all have
strengths and weaknesses, and Darvin, I thought was not as detailed,
(53:26):
offensively allowed sloppy possessions. What didn't hold players offensively accountable.
They'll make it up on the defensive end. That's not
the league. That's just not the league. You you're gonna
you're gonna shoot your way. I mean, you start looking
at teams. Dallas was a better offensive team than Minnesota.
They won the series. You know it's it's you know,
(53:46):
is as as hard as New York played. You start
look Indiana. It was more consistently a higher tempo, healthier,
better offensive team with offense is winning these series. Like
effort's great, but like that's that's why Boston's favorite in
this series. They've got five six guys that can score
twenty And so I think Darvin doesn't necessarily fit what's
happening to the league, which is increasingly skilled, increasingly unstoppable
(54:11):
for players of size. And I think Hurley's good with that.
He understands what the sport is becoming. That you play hard,
play with urgency, get the details down offensively, don't give
up sloppy possessions. Lakers would have bad quarters offensively, Like
just I mean, there are times if you didn't have
(54:32):
Lebron on the floor and Austin Reeves was in foul trouble,
you were done. They just were a bad offensive unit.
So yeah, I think to your point is I tried
to defend Darvin Ham, But I'm seeing some of the
same stuff in the NFL where the skilled now in
the NBA is just too damn good. It's just too good.
There's just if you're not equipped offensively, possession after possession,
(54:54):
you'll just get run out of this sport really quickly.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Look at this particular matchup here for Dallas versus Boston,
like a big part you mentioned it at the start
of the show, like the stagnation, the lack of the
ball in player movement, the Luca Kyrie kind of yours
that is, it works for Dallas because Luca is so
damn good and he might be the best player in
the world. But like I do believe there's a reason
(55:23):
why the league has shifted towards more ball in player movement.
That's why we're seeing teams like Denver succeed and Golden
State succeed. Golden State kind of really revolutionized five out
offense and brought it to where it is today. And like,
I just think I think Dan Hurley is in touch
with what works in modern basketball, which I think is
going to help a ton. I think he's I think
he understands the complications of the transition to the NBA,
(55:46):
which I think will be his probably his biggest challenge.
But he knows he's gonna have to talk differently to
professional athletes than to college players. He knows that there's
going to be more, you know, media pressure with that
LA job on a day today basis like we talked
about Darvin Ham all the time this season because it's
like that's if you were ranking high, high pressure coaching
(56:07):
jobs in America, Lakers head coach is pretty high up
on that list, especially when Lebron James is on the
roster and so well, I think he's up for it.
I think he can do it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (56:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
One of the things I've talked about today kind of
ad nauseum on my show is I said the Lakers
had twenty years in the second biggest city in the
country with no NFL teams in the NFL eventually gobbles
up every city. And now you've got Harbon, Herbert and
McVeigh and Stafford and the second richest owner in Stan Cronk,
and the Dodgers look like they're one hundred and ten
win team. Here comes USC to the big ten Ballmer's
(56:37):
got a new arena. The key in this is are
you okay? Now? Being the third biggest story in LA
fourth on some weekends, like because this city has got
star coaches and star teams and star players, and it
could be you know, Wagner Rhode Island, Yukon. He had
a losing record each year. He's a culture guy. He's
(56:58):
an oven guy. He's not a microwave guys. None of
this fake bullshit like this is a this is gonna
be a slow roast, okay, And Lebron and Anthony Davis
if he signs a five year, sixty million dollar deal.
The Laker Genie Buss doesn't have the financial wherewithal, she's
not Balmer. That's not a rounding air for her. So
(57:20):
this is a real commitment. So I think everybody's just
got to take a deep breath. The Lakers had this LA.
They were winning titles with no NFL team. The Dodgers
were good but not winning World Series. They owned this
city for twenty years, and they got real use to
leaking stuff to the media on a slough and just
stealing thunder. Well, if you're thirty eight and forty four
(57:41):
in this city next year and Herbert and Harbaugh and
here come the Clippers in their new arena, you're gonna
be the fourth story really quickly the volume. Thanks so
much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a
moment rate and review
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
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NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way, especially
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Speaker 2 (01:33):
All right, Former NFL scout John Middlecoff, I'm always try
to be somewhat delicate with Aaron Rodgers because I'm viewed
as anti Aaron. But last year, sixty quarterbacks played in
the league. And if I just said to you, said,
forget the teams and the names, forty year old quarterback
oft an achilles surgery with a makeshift, old and really
(01:56):
young offensive line in a better conference, just that scream.
The quarterback plays seventeen games I think lost in this
this Jets improvement, and people love their roster is, Hey,
they're a Breee Hall injury from being a have to
pass offense, have to pass. And now the good news,
they shouldn't be in shootouts, Aaron shouldn't be forced to
(02:18):
throw forty four times a game. But they got one back.
And I tend to believe that championship teams are built
when you have your seven to eight best players all
in their prime. Like Detroit right now, Jared's in his prime.
Hutcheson moved into it. That running back may be into
it now, Amaran Saint Brown, Panay Sewel, You're getting a
(02:41):
lot of Porida. They're all like moving into their prime.
And you start looking at Green Bay and it's like,
I guess Breece probably is, Garrett Wilson still raw a
lot of their defensive talent, Sauce Gardner's probably moving into it.
But they got a lot of guys that aren't there
or were never there. I PFF last week had the
(03:03):
Kansas City roster number two, and I was like, they're
bad at tackling, don't have a number one receiver. I
don't know, it's not the second best roster of the league.
I look at the Jets and I just keep saying,
if you gave me over under fifteen games on Aaron,
I'd bet the under.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'd be like this, did you see the clip last
week of him scrambling to his right and kind of limping. Yeah,
And whether you tell me it's blister prevention or whatever,
that has to be pretty concerning, because I will say
this last year at this time, and remember he dealt
with a calf a little in OTAs. But when you
saw him move around and he was healthy, he looks
(03:37):
somewhat spry. He's forty years old, and we have, i
would say, pretty recent data of some legendary guys falling
off a cliff. Matt Ryan different Matt Ryan, and I
would put him on the lower end of these players.
Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger. Most of my life
when I was a kid in the nineties, guys got
(03:58):
to like thirty five in all pro sports and we're done.
And then Brady kind of changed it. Lebron kind of
changed it. Most people fall off a cliff, Hey, well,
I'm kind of expecting yeah, and he's that's crazy. But
he's not quite as quick anymore. He's not quite the athlete.
Why he's thirty four, He's not twenty six. Aaron's forty forty.
(04:20):
And part of the reasons he's older, right because played
several years in college red shirted, gray shirted in the pros,
didn't play for a while, so he's actually older, even
though he hasn't been playing technically as long as some
of those guys like Peyton Manning when he was forty.
But I think there's a very good chance if you
just base it up the history of sports, it usually
ends poorly. Usually don't do John Elway. This one's for John,
(04:42):
especially with the Jets, right, I mean, their offensive coordinator
is not any good because she's just not I mean,
most teams in the league laugh at that situation. And
he's there for one reason and one reason only, which
I'm for the coach and the quarterback having a good relationship.
That's how you and your producers have good relate Like
there's it should be healthy if the guy is good
at his job. Josh McDaniel's pay and Tom Brady made
(05:05):
a lot of sense. Kyle shanahan and his quarterbacks for
Sean McVay and Matt Stafford, this one, this guy's just
not viewed as good enough. And last year when Aaron left,
it was an abomination and these stories because of the organization.
What if they start slow now, I actually think they
have an opportunity. I don't think their schedule is that
harderly after the Niner.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Game, it's a weird schedule. It's a lot of night
games in short weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They're just gonna be covered like the Lakers or the Yankees.
And we know things get weird with that franchise. And
even if it's all about football, none of the other
extracurricular stuff. If it's weird on offense, they're just gonna
point at the quarterback and the offensive coordinator, and then
the head coach is gonna be up there like saying,
who knows what? It could snowball into weirdness really quick,
(05:48):
like Aaron said, if I don't perform, we're all getting fired.
That's what's on the line here.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I thought last week was really interesting. So Miami signs
Jalen Waddle to a massive deal with Tyreek Hill already
signing a stupendous contract. Okay, what are we saying here?
So if Tua just signs the tenth biggest contract, that's
Josh Allen now, who will get an extension to raise
(06:17):
they're one hundred and five million guy, one hundred and
five million bucks. I think something close to that on
three dudes all on offense. Not a pass rusher, not
a corner, not an interior defensive lineman, not an offensive tackle,
two receivers in a quarterback. So I almost wondered three.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Small guys too.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Was Miami saying, listen, we're making our bet. We're just
not going to have This is our way of telling
you you're not getting fifty five million dollars. We're just
not going to give you that. Because I don't know.
I know Dak has a market. I've talked to two
gms who have.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Told Raiders would sign him yesterday.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yesterday, and I think very quickly, you know, if the
dre May thing looks awful, they'd sniff at it. I
mean New Orleans with Derek Carr, I don't think they're
a lot Giants Daniel Jones, what is to his market?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I don't think it would be that good. But he's
not my type player. But we also know when you
hit free agency at that position, people overspend. But who
is giving two one hundred and fifty million dollars on
the open market. Who is I can't see. Did you
see the picture of him at the charity event. He
looked like he was on ozebic. He looks tiny, He
(07:32):
looks really really skinny. Yeah, I'm not into small guys
who aren't great athletes with average arms. Just not really
my style. Yeah, I like my quarterbacks to be a
little bigger, a little more mobile. With Howitzer's h but
because when you look at in theory, he should be
this kind of mobile little guy. But he is much
closer to Jared Goff the way he plays. I've said
(07:54):
it over and over. Well, here's what Dak does has
proven Now he's given me three straight years of twelve wins.
Do I want to give him fifty plus million dollars?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I do not.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Is there an opportunity that if he gets hot one
postseason they could win a couple of games, like an
Eli Manning situation. I don't believe TWA as that capability.
One what we witnessed last year. I mean, if this
was like the ND five hundred, they were up like
several laps, the Bills were leaking oil, they were six
and six. Then the season ends, they win the division,
(08:24):
and they're hosting playoff games and Miami has to go
on the road. And even when I saw a Vech
at the combine, He's like, I've been in the NFL
a long time. That was the coldest game I've ever
stood on the field for when he played the Chiefs,
and we felt pretty good about our chances because we
knew that offense couldn't function in the freezing cold. But
they wouldn't have had a chance in a cold weather
game against Baltimore, against any of these teams. So part
(08:46):
of it is the AFC. If you spend two if
you spend all this money on to it, because at
the end of the day, could dak It hasn't gone
well these last three years. But beat a party, beat up,
you know, a Jared Goff if he plays right, How
is Tua ever outplay Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Herbert now
with Harbaugh, Josh Allen. It's not happening. It doesn't mean
he's not a solid NFL starter. But once you start
(09:09):
talking about the money, this is not baseball. You don't
have an unlimited on of cap space. Tyreek Hill, He's
one of the greatest players I've ever seen. No problem
investing Jaylen Wattle. You draft him high, he's a productive player.
I get it too, Like, why can't we just play
this out? Why does every quarterback have to get an it?
Jared Goff proved last year. He went toe to toe
with Matt Stafford in the playoff game. He won the
(09:29):
second playoff game against Baker Mayfield. He was great against
the forty nine ers, Like they have tangible evidence now
in the playoffs, let alone the regular season. Now for
a year and a half, where's that evidence against Tua? Like, yeah,
he plays well in October. Well, you're in the AFC
where most of these teams come November and December. I
looked at their schedule whenever the schedules came out, they
had three or four games post you know, Halloween. They
(09:51):
get a little cold, Colin get a little cold. What
if you can't do it this year, If you can't
win the division and host a playoff game, which they
would have to do to have success in the playoffs
because of their climate, what's the point of extending them
just to say you have a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The Pittsburgh Steelers are at a really interesting crossroads. So
Mike tom can Mike Tomlin can get a little prickly
when his future is discussed, but he has not beaten
an elite quarterback in the playoff game in forever, and
that's just he.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Doesn't want a playoff game in almost a decade.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. So, and it's interesting they're not paying anything for
Russell Russell, you know, any chance he gets to say, boy,
I'd love to see packages for Justin Fields at wide receiver.
It's like, I mean, that's so weary. You know, they're
all talking about and Justin doesn't want any part of that,
and he shouldn't want any part of it. But I
did have somebody that I trust kind of that reports
(10:47):
on the Steelers say, Russell, the Pittsburgh's.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Going to be. It's very.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That culture there is very grind or oriented. Even your stars.
Big Ben was kind of a small town guy. TJ.
Watt Midwestern guy. You know, the lavian bells come in
and very quickly they kind of feel disconnected from it.
It's it's a grinder operation. And I'm not saying Russell
doesn't grind and work hard, but he's got a brand.
(11:16):
He's just different. I mean, it's just I mean, call
it what you want. Nobody gets called out in this
league as much as Russell and somebody that has good
connective tissue to the Steelers said, there's already been a
couple of situations where you know, he's he's Russ and
these are the Steelers. It's a and I say this,
(11:37):
Green Bay and Pittsburgh have a very lunch pale quality. Now,
the Steelers usually have elite defensive personnel. Packers are better
on the offensive side in terms of efficiency. Packers have
also had offensive coaches. But if you had to do
crystal ball on Russell Wilson, what it looks like end
of the year's schedule's awful. But if you had to
(11:58):
have a crystal ball on Russell Wilson, another quarterback who
almost inexplicably got worse fast without an injury, just got
worse fast nearing thirty five, what is your crystal ball
on Pittsburgh?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
If I had to go over under on Justin Field's
first start with the Steelers, it'd probably be around five
and a half. I think he's in and I think
he's in early. The other thing is, you know Russell
has to ingratiate himself. What do you think of Mike
Tomlin and the Steelers. I think TJ. Watt, Cam Hayward,
make A Fitzpatrick. I mean those guys in Mike are
kind of on the same page, right, I mean they
(12:30):
feel like part of the operation. Do they feel like
Russell Wilson guys? I mean when you think do you
think TJ. Watt and MIKEA. Fitzpatrick? You never say the
word brand. You think ass kickers and football players. And
I just can't imagine. I just don't think he's good enough.
And the margin Ferrera in this conference dinking and duncan.
You could argue if it starts slow, like what if
(12:52):
they're owing to and it's just like what are we
doing on? It might not even get to five and
a half because what where's his equity with the operation?
Denver was They're they're not paying them anything. They're paying
them less than a million dollars. Honestly, if it got
really what, you could cut them and you wouldn't even
think twice. And that happens to a lot of NFL players.
Once you start getting the team three and four, your
(13:13):
equity with the operation disappears. And it's a performance based business,
so no one's gonna want to hear about anything except
touchdown passes, and I don't know. I mean the guy
we've seen the last couple of years. I don't know
if his confidence is gone. I don't know if, but
he's been a pretty marginal player now for three straight
years because that last year in Seattle and then everything
that happened the last two years in Denver. I also think,
(13:35):
if you're fan bases in the NFL, sneaky have a
lot of juice because that's kind of where the owners.
You know, he listened to radio that they read they do,
So you think Pittsburgh if all of a sudden listen,
I don't know. I would bet justin Fields he's probably
closer to what we've seen his whole career. But we've
also seen guys improve with that skill set when they
(13:56):
get with the right coordinator. Arthur Smith resurrected Ryan Tannehill.
If I'm a fan and we're zeroing too, like I'm
not watching Russell Wilson, well, i've seen this from Afar
putting the young kid, and let's just see if we
could figure something out with this guy that has a
lot of physical tools. Now, quarterbacks a lot about a
lot more than running fast and throwing hard. His pocket
(14:17):
presence has been a major question mark. But what did
Arthur Smith do with Ryan Tannel? They ran the ball.
He gave him a lot of easy looks, kept it
pretty simple. Now, I don't think they really have Derrick Henry,
you know, Najee Harris, okay back, Jalen Warred pretty explosive.
But if their defense is good. Honestly, if I was
a Steeler fan, I just want to see justin fields
right out. I wouldn't even want to see Russell Wilson.
(14:37):
I just like, can we resurrect this guy?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, it's interesting because Arthur Smith, his history is a
lot of throws over the middle of the field, and
that's not what Russell does.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's just her deep go routes. That's just throw.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, because you know his size, he can struggle. Kyler
Murray admits this. Tua acknowledges this. Sometimes I struggle to
see over the line. So of all, I've been doing
this now thirty years of talking sports, and you know
I do a segment every Monday. Colin right, Colin wrong.
I have big opinions miss all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Russell.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I don't ever remember a player in my life at
that position that I was sure he was great, and
then after a year, I'm pretty sure he's just B
minus and there's no injury. He's not to thirty six.
He works really hard, Like it's a really hard ask.
(15:36):
You start trying to figure out. You say, well, he
didn't get along. Seattley wasn't beloved, So no injury, He's
still elusive. It's like he put weade on in the
wrong spot. He got a little thick. I find Russell
to be a complete historic outlier, like Matt Ryan, never
moved well, didn't have a big arm, kind of thin,
(15:59):
and it felt the game quickly passed him by. It
got very mobile and athletic, and he wasn't you know
there there there, there are players at the end. Philip
Rivers was never athletic. He got like the most unathletic
quarterback in the league. Eli Manning just felt like he
was out of gas. Russell, You're like last year in Seattle,
he's a wizard and then he's bad and then Peyton
(16:22):
makes him okay, And I'm like, I don't think he
sees the field. I don't think he sees guys and
I from people close and around Sean like that's what
the film said he just didn't see the open guys, mhm.
Time for twice monthly Nick Wright Conversation. Phil Knight has
(16:47):
a manifesto when he started Nike. He wrote down ten things,
and a lot of this you could see in Air
the movie Air Ben Affleck and and number nine on
it was this will be met see. And one of
the real things I talked about today about the WNBA
was we are seeing this moment in time where this league.
(17:09):
And I've always said, I'm in the omelet business, not
the egg business. I don't make you interesting. When you're made,
I talk about you, not my job to make the omelet.
I'll report on the omelet. So I didn't talk about
the WNBA because, frankly, it didn't get ratings. I mean, Jesus,
the finals got seven hundred thousand. Now you have a
catalyst that explodes. When a business explodes. It could be
a tech business, pharmaceutical business, it could be a law firm.
(17:32):
When something explodes, shit gets messy, and we're in the
messy phase for the WNBA. Their early schedule for the
fever is insane. They're played twice as many games they.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Played they played colin from previous Friday until Sunday, that
nine day stretch. Yeah, they played as many games as
the Aces have played all year. They it was and
it was again from a marketing standpoint, I got it
put Caitlyn as many places as possible. From a the
you know, the Fever played eleven game, the Finding champs
(18:05):
have played six. Now that maybe that was sneaky, brilliant.
And then I'll let you finish. I'm sorry because it
will lead to I think Caitlin being awesome at the
end of the year because all of a sudden, she's
going to be the most rested player in every game
because they got they have no more back to backs,
they have no more three games in four nights, so
(18:27):
the rest of the year, she's gonna have real time
in between it. But they were, they but go ahead,
you were you were making a point that I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
So it's just an it's an exploding business for the
first time it was. You know, let's we all know
the backstory in the WNBA that it was subsidized by
the NBA for a decade. Now they moved into smaller arenas.
It wasn't terribly profitable. Las Vegas has sort of figured
it out first to be the first franchise that's making
real money almost has an n ideal with its players.
(18:55):
But the point being is this is an explosion, and
and you see it in tech all the time. You
just quite it. It's hard to predict the unpredictable, and so.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think so much of the Caitlyn Clark WNBA commentary
has actually been some weird media meta commentary about the
commentary like it has been very like the basketball stuff,
I think is pretty straightforward. This is a hell of
(19:26):
a rookie class. Cameron Brank is going to be a star.
Angel Reese is going to be a star, Caitlyn Clark
is going to be a superstar, and maybe those other
two will as well. And they have brought a lot
of eyeballs. Caitlyn Clark's team seems to really be struggling,
probably in part because they had the number one pick
the last two years for a reason and partially because
of this schedule. And is there some predictable jealousy either
(19:52):
just based purely on attention and economics? Is some of
it about ads rookie some hazing short? All that stuff
kind to me is a pretty straightforward sports story up
to and including the foul heard around the world. That
was just a hard flagrant, not even a flagrant too,
like it was a hard foul. But the commentary has
(20:15):
really been about the commentary. Yeah, and there's so many
levels to it. So I want to start with the
first thing you said, which is like thought exercise. Let's
say in five years there is a Tiger Woods like
(20:35):
athlete and and some would say, oh, we've already had it,
but no Tiger Woods esque in that he captures everyone's
attention in hockey. Do we then need to go on
the air and be like, we are so sorry that
we weren't covering hockey before we did a moral disservice.
(21:00):
I don't feel we do, no, And so I don't
feel when folks have been like, well you're new to
the party, like, well, in our specific business, the party
just got going now. It doesn't mean it was not
worth a worthwhile league. It doesn't mean I'm not glad
(21:20):
it exists. But I on my show, I barely talk
about professional baseball. I don't talk anything about hockey. It'd
be one thing if on our shows we were talking
eleven different sports and just like nope, we have time
for cricket. But we're not making time for the WNBA.
(21:41):
That's not the truth, that's not how these shows work.
And there has been to me an element of what
I would compare to the hipster band phenomenon, which is
if there is a band that all of a sudden
is playing arenas, but a year ago was playing eight
hundred person venues, the folks who were the fan of
(22:05):
the band then sometimes are like, oh, you know, I
was here before it was popular, and they're almost snarky
towards the new people as opposed to being like, hey,
I always knew this was awesome, Glad you're here now.
So I don't love that, and I think so. I
think that is problematic on one direction from a media perspective.
(22:29):
Here's another thing I think is problematic from a media
perspective in the other direction. Folks who clearly have the
attitude of you should be happy I'm even talking about
your sport. Therefore, none of my opinions are open for
criticism because you're just lucky to be getting my opinions.
I think that's bullshit too. And I think if it
(22:52):
were if it were hockey, or if it were the MLS,
I think people would have any your time with it
because there is the gender aspect of it, people are
nervous about how we talk about it. And then you
add to it that there is also a very obvious
(23:12):
now we can talk about how significant, but an obvious
at least component of a racial component, which is it
is odd that this league that is majority black, a
disproportionate amount of its stars have been white women throughout
history and now its biggest star is a white woman.
That is an added landmine or a complication, whatever you
(23:35):
want to put it. And I think because people are
so afraid of all of this, everyone's just freaking out
and losing their mind about a foul and who's talking what,
And all of a sudden, now the WNBA, without anyone mentioning, hey,
the Connecticut Sun are undefeated, is taking up more airtime
than it has in the last five years combined. It's
a fascinating media story as much as anything.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I thought. James Jones, who's been watching the WNBA for years,
had the most prescient, prescient point on it. I thought
it was really smart. I didn't think about this, He says.
The biggest difference between the NBA and the WNBA is
the NBA is much more vertical. You may occasionally have
(24:19):
a woman break away in the WNBA and dunk it.
Men go through the lane, jump over other men and
jam it, often behind their head. Both leagues can shoot,
both leagues can move their feet, both leagues can rebound,
both leagues can pass. The NBA men jump over other
six eight men and dunk it in their face regularly,
(24:41):
he said. Because of that, the WNBA is more physical.
You score through physical banging body. You don't go over,
you go into.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He said.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It. Thought about that fascinating. He said, the WNBA is
actually more physical than the NBA. The NBA is no
hand check. You can't stay in front of anybody. The
bigs all shoot threes, the lanes wide open. That's not
the WNBA. You score bully ball. And he said, so
if you watched the WNBA for years, it's way more
(25:15):
physical than the NBA. That's fascinating, fascinating. So I'm gonna
throw something at you that I think is fascinating. I
don't think we've ever broached this topic. So this week
I was reading on the internet. There was an NBA
player we know, Jason Tatum, really coveted time with Kobe Bryant.
He really enjoyed time. Their basketball ideology is different. You know,
(25:40):
one is the ultimate at times selfish closer. The other
guy's more collaborative, more of a giver. But it was
it was a player talking about his career and he
said it was Klay Thompson who said, I'm not here
without Kobe Bryant. Like Kobe Bryant was Messiah. Everything funneled
(26:02):
through Kobe. And it's really interesting since his death, people
are often more willing to say that when somebody passes,
to honor them, to say God, that person meant so
much to me. And we've heard lots of people say it.
Lebron said it about Michael Jordan.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Most just said it about Clay or about Kobe. Kyrie
just said he was about him being a mentor and
a guy he looked up to. All of it.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yep, don't you find it fascinating? Find a single quarterback
who says I structure my whole game around Brady. I've
never seen one. It's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Oh that's interesting because I thought you were going to
say Aaron there, and I was like, oh, Caleb said, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
A lot of guys, Yes, Aaron. I can name four
off the top line.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Okay, that's where I thought you were you were going,
and I was like, oh, I think you're wrong here,
but Brady, you're right out.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That isn't that fascinating? And so here's what I thought.
This is my take is that there are a lot
of ways to be successful, but the most great athletes
are entertainers, artists, singers. They're all really artists. They're really
all artists. Brady, less so than any great athlete at all,
(27:26):
bordered on mechanical and efficient. He basically was the cheat code.
He had the answers to the test. He literally walked
to the line. He didn't have to make dramatic plays
because he audibled out of them. He almost never got
sacked because he could see it coming. And so artists
(27:46):
Caleb and Mahomes and Lamar, I mean, look at the
best quarterbacks now, they're movers and Kyler and I mean
Herbert is another very mechanical processor and quarterback. I don't
think Herbert will have a lot of people that say,
even if he won Super Bowls, Justin was my guy.
Is that Brady, for all his greatness, is viewed as
(28:08):
almost robotic in his dominance, and it doesn't curry love
or favor or duplication from young people.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
So so I did. You're right, we've never talked about this,
and I so I've never This is I enjoy when
we do this because I am hearing this for the
first time. I haven't if you've talked about it on
the show or on the pot, I haven't heard it.
So this is the first time my brain's ever considering this,
but it is I'm trying. I also was trying to think, like,
(28:41):
have I heard anyone like the only Mahomes talks about Brady,
but only in the He's the goat, he's got seven
super Bowl rings. I want to do, but not as
far as I mimicked myself after him. So I I
wonder why that is and what you have You know,
(29:01):
what you've landed on I think is probably right, which
is I Now again, you're much better at the analogies
than me. Uh, certainly on the fly. But there's a
level of like when you look at the wealthiest people
(29:22):
in world history, I don't know what the guy's name is,
but the dude who started us steel is on the list.
But the reason I don't know what the name is
is because like nobody's been like that's who I'm gonna be.
But they say Steve Jobs, you know what I mean?
They say now Rockefeller, us Elon Musk, those things. Rockefeller
(29:45):
is probably because he put his name on a lot
of things, but there is a level of that. I
remember Brady being on your show around the time he
went to Tampa, maybe a year after, maybe after he'd
won the Super with the last Super Bowl in Tampa,
I don't know, but I remember you talking to him
about retiring and he said, well, it's never been easier.
(30:11):
He didn't use those words, but what his point he
said with the words he did use, I think were
I have all the answers to the test, now why
would I stop taking it? I remember like that exact
thing where he was like, I, like you said, I
go to the line, I know exactly what the defense
is doing, so I know exactly the play we have
to be in and boom and it also, and this
(30:34):
is a quote I've said to you before, but it
seth Payne, who played in the NFL for a number
of years, does radio now in Houston, and I worked
with them there. He would talk about how offensive coordinators
would leave the Patriots and think, oh, I can turn
(30:55):
this quarterback into Tom Brady because or a poor man
Tom Brady, because Tom Brady was not impressive from a
measurables talent standpoint. And what Seth said is, but none
of those guys left the Patriots was like, I can
turn this receiver into Randy Moss because it was obvious.
No you can't. And his point was Brady's brain is
(31:19):
Randy Moss's, and discipline is Randy Moss's. Forty time and vertical.
They just didn't people because you can't see it. People think, oh,
Jimmy Garoppolo can do it because he's got you know,
these guys can Matt Castle can do it. But they couldn't.
But even though the measurables were the same, So it
(31:40):
does make sense. What if your biggest talent is not
apparent to people watching you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's just a it's not an aesthetic.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Correct, right, like there there are probably more people. It's
so fascinating you say that, because it's right. We have
all heard more quarterbacks say I grew up wanting to
be Mike Vick than wanting to be Tom Brady. We
have heard more people say, certainly more people a generation
(32:14):
ago I want to be Dan Marino. Then I want
to you know what I mean? Then I want to
be Brady and Aaron.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Aaron is clearly generationally the guy that most wanted to.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Be right and there is a level of And so
I guess since you brought up Kobe, the basketball comp
would be how many guys came up? How many guys
have we seen to feel like? You know who I
modeled my game after. Tim Duncan won fifty games every year, right,
But Duncan, Duncan, same exact era as Kobe, and in
(32:46):
my opinion one slot on the all time list above him,
never had a down year, never missed the playoffs, you know,
all the ruthlessly efficient. But nobody has tried to be
Tim Duncan. Nobody see he came into the league twenty
five years ago. Not a single person that I can
think of came into the league being like, that's who
(33:07):
I'm trying to be Tim Duncan. And I don't think
now I understand some of that's personality, but also it
is because nobody could deny what he did was effective
and great, but it wasn't. It doesn't seem fun to
emulate like you will have more people, I guess on
(33:28):
that note, and this is wearing a bit of a
Kyrie renaissance, and I'm happy for him about it. But
you will have more people a generation from now that say,
you know, I grew up trying to be Kyrie than
I grew up trying to be Chris Paul. Yeah, even
though you know what I mean. I understand Chris Paul
(33:49):
never won, but Iverson had that, oh, without a doubt,
with an iconic, important, influential player in a way, a
lot of guys who maybe were more successful warrant. That
is interesting that nobody, nobody says I tried to be
Tom in that fact that is That is fact, and
(34:11):
I'm trying to think if someone had said it. But
a lot of people call them the goat. In fact,
basically everyone does. But as far as who they modeled
their game after, it is unique. And a lot of
people say, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Let's say this right now. It doesn't even the timeline.
You're a general manager, so you have to come up
with a timeline. Okay, all right, but I'm a thing counts.
We're both gms. Okay, I'll give you first because you
want mahomes.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I do. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I'll go Josh Allen.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
All right, if I'm being honest. My next pick is
Caleb okay, and I know he would have been available
and later, but I couldn't getting I understand. I understand
that that is, he would have been available later.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But I okay, yeah, go ahead, Okay, I'll take Lamar
Jackson number four.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
Okay, that's then I feel it great because this is
the guy I would have taken. Next, I will take c.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
J okay now, just on value proposition, although I worry
about his injuries. I'll take Joe Burrow at six.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Yeah, I'm worried about those injuries. Buddy, I agree with you.
So there's a guy that you and I would both
only because I know you love him so much. I
might want him, but I'm not. I just am sorry.
I'm going through the league quickly. Here, all right, this
(35:59):
is there, this is not This does not make sense
from a value perspective timeline, but I'm trying to win this.
GM is on the hot seat and he's trying to win.
Right now. I've taken Matt Stafford.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
By the way, I absolutely love Matt Stafford.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
I know you do. That's why I was worried. I
was like, you're gonna swoop in and get him.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, So because of that, I'll take Justin Herbert eight.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Okay, that's all right, that's good. I'll take Trevor.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, okay, hold on, I'm gonna take Jordan Love.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Oh that's a good pick.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
So now we have.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
I gotta tell you, Jordan Loves a good pick. All right. Now,
I gotta think I'm just going through, like in my head,
the divisions. All right, well, no, how many picks are
we doing? We do sixteen?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, you have Mahomes me, Allen you, Caleb me, Lamar you,
c J. Stroud, me, Burrow you, Stafford. I'm on Herbert, you, Trevor, me,
Jordan Love. You're eleven.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Yep, all right, I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Not going to twelve.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
No, hold on, let's go to sixteen. Let's just go
to sixteen. We each get three more picks. I'm just
making sure that I'm not leaving out any obvious teams.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Okay, okay, all.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Right, I am all right. I'm gonna this is gonna
be this again. This guy was gonna be available later,
but now I'm going upside. I'm going to take with
the eleventh pick of the draft, Anthony.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Richardson, Well, I get it. I like him.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
I'm gonna sit your top five pick. Whatever you Yeah,
go ahead, I'm gonna take Jared Goff twelve. I knew
you would. I could have taken Golf and just held
him ransom on you and made you trade me a bounty,
but I didn't want to do it. All right now,
all right, at this point in the draft, I know
who I'm taking it for. Well, unless I take him first.
(38:04):
At this point in the draft, I am now comfortable
taking Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Oh Jesus, I'll take Kyler Murray. I got Kyler Murray
at fourteen. I feel like, I you love Kyler. I
know he's so talented. I listen, if it's a six
foot under league, you gotta steal at number fifteen.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
This is the last pick I'm going to have, and
this is going to shock people. But again, it's my
last pick.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, so I feel.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Like I'll shoot the moon on it. I mean, I
don't know. I yeah, I'll go ahead and do it.
I don't love it, and I do feel like he
could be a pain in the ass in the locker room.
But I'm going to take Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I'm gonna take Jaden, Daniels, Jade.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And Daniels Dak undrafted. So the under our undrafted guys
to us Kirk Cousin drafted, dakt undrafted, Drake May undrafted. Understandably,
I can't believe if this thing could have gone fifty
picks and you still could have gotten Russell Wilson because
you knew I was never taken him. You just knew
(39:25):
there was no chance. Will Levice not surprising undrafted?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I don't know je I think Daniels, I think he's
got a little bit of Lamar, but better as a
rookie in the pocket. But there's a little Lamar there.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Yeah, there's there's also a little Kate Moss there as
far as his his weight, and so that is a concern,
Like the Jaden. Jaden is just so so lean that
that is a worry. But the guy goes number two
in a draft that that makes sense. JJ McCarthy obviously
didn't get drafted. Oh my god, I feel you know
(40:05):
what I feel? Can I can? I would you want
Aaron at sixteen if he were on the board? No?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I would, all right?
Speaker 5 (40:14):
Then? Can I I'm waving Aaron Rodgers so I could
pick up Baker. I forgot about Baker. I can't leave
Bake Show out of there. Bake Show is again. If
my quarterback room's eight deep, I don't need my eighth
on the depth chart. All of a sudden, annoying people,
Bake Show has team great vibes, So go ahead and
switch it and I'll take I'll take Bake Show. He's younger.
(40:38):
So here's my other takeaway from this. Just quickly, neither
one of us even considered for a moment the number
one pick of the draft a year ago. Bryce didn't
even think about it, which, by the way, the which
I think is correct, but it also is, you know,
a little concerning for Panthers fans. I love that, By
(41:00):
the way, I love those those fake drafts. I heard
you say when I was on the Herd today with you.
I didn't see when you and j Mac did it,
But when you said that you and him did the
did that draft? I instantly got jealous. I was like,
I want to do a draft.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I was like, where, what's I So I.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
Knew I was hoping to be able to do it today.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I picked Boston in six I thought they would win.
That was my draft Kings pick. I thought Jalen Brown
would play well and the Boston Celtics would win, although
Kyrie didn't offer much of anything, and I thought he'd
have a decent assist night. You know, My takeaway is
the small ball revolution in the NBA was really a
bunch of nonsense. It was Steph Curry and Draymond Green
(41:54):
who could play big. Everybody tried to duplicate it for
about four years and then everybody's like Houston, got kind
of close. Size matters and poor Zingis on both ends,
altering shots on the defensive end, he was the initial
Unicorn seven to four dribble shoot, there's nothing you can do.
It's why Wemby will take over the league next year
(42:15):
at the All Star break, is that this is a
big man's game. You know, in the NFL, you know
Bill parce Sells and the late great George Young was
a general manager for the Giants, and his whole theory
was went in doubt, just draft big guys like big
beat small, and in the NBA, length and size is
so important. And my takeaway, if that's the poor zingis
(42:39):
I get in the series Dallas Is in trouble. You know.
One of the things I said, they have such a
mature offensive team, and they're all a little different. I
mean Tatum tonight was more assist guy than he was
score guy. And I said, you know, Tatum can have
a bad night in this series and they could win
by fifteen Kyrie. Yes, an off night, they get shelled,
(43:02):
and that, to me is the difference in the series.
And I said that before I knew what I was
getting with Porzingis, But I thought, you know, the size
of porzingis the matchup problem. You know, Dallas came into
this thing, let's feel it out, and very quickly it's like, yeah,
we've got We're gonna have to go back to the
drawing board on this, and then Porzingis sits for a while.
(43:24):
But I would start with that is that you know,
if I got six guys who could all drop twenty man,
that's in a with the Apron. Now, it's hard to
get a third star. The league doesn't want it anymore.
They want you to draft and develop. That's what the
whole thing. Legal pay a lot of money. They don't
want you going to cherry picking stars Boston. This is
(43:47):
an absurdly deep offensive roster. I mean, you go look
at Porzingis last year. He was the guy for Washington.
You're like, well, that for a terrible team. That's an
All Star level player. Derek White's a five. Derek White's
a two on probably thirty percent of the teams in
the league. So I thought tonight was a little bit
of what I thought is that Dallas cannot withstand a
(44:11):
bad luker Kyrie Knight Boston Boston. If you told me
A Tatum and Derek White didn't play well, Boston could
still win. And so I just start with that, is
that Porzingis' size, he was the initial unicorn. It's it's
a problem. There's not a lot you can do. It's
a big problem.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
I thought this game was a brilliant showcase of what
makes chrisps Porzingis awesome and how he elevates the ceiling
of this Boston team. First of all, he's their only
legitimate rim protector, like Horford's a really interesting player and
does a lot to help this team on both ends
of the floor. But chrisops Porzingis is just a mountain
of a man that is really difficult to finish over
(44:51):
at the rim. In addition to that, he brings this.
There are a lot of guys that can shoot in
the NBA at the centi position, there are very few
guys at the center position that are like lasers, like
you just can't leave them open. And one of my
biggest reasons why I picked Boston is Dallas's defense is
very much geared up at the rim as like a
(45:13):
rim protection team.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That's why they were good against Minnesota.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
You know, they're.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Exactly exactly and they have some good perimeter defenders, but
they don't have a bunch of good perimeter defenders. And
so when you can really spread them out and Lively
and Gafford can't solve problems at the rim as rim protectors.
It just challenges the weak points of Dallas's offense.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
And then the.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Second piece of it with porzingis that goes beyond the
three point shooting. One of the easiest ways to counter
a ball screen is to switch it, because the whole
point of the ball screen is you can get downhill
because the guy has to chase over the top of
a screen. But if you switch it, it shuts it down.
But what makes porzingis such a valuable weapon is if
you switch it, you're putting your smaller player onto Porzingis
(45:55):
and he can just walk him down to fifteen feet
from the basket and they can toss it back to
him and he can go to work. He showed it
all in that game one. He was protecting the rim,
he was hitting trailing threes in transition, he was hitting
spot up threes and helped defense situations. He was hitting
picking pop threes, he was beating switches by posting up
around the elbow. It was everything that makes Porzingis great.
(46:18):
And I'm glad you pointed this out because everyone just
accounted for Porzingis as like available and healthy, but like
it's really hard to go thirty something days without playing
NBA basketball and then to walk in the NBA Finals,
Like I don't think I don't think we're like. It
just was so impressive the way he immediately looked comfortable
(46:40):
and immediately started thriving. But a big part of that
is he is the guy. He's the key that solves
all of the issues that Boston could have had against
this Dallas defense. He unlocks it all. I was I
was just completely blown away by him.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I founded the volume, so I tend to look at
things from a managerial position. And so I said, if
I was Rob Polinka and Genie Buss and Minnesota's got
Ant and Okac's got Chet and Sga, and then there's
Lucas twenty five, and you start looking up and down,
and you know, Jokic is still in his prime, Boston's
(47:16):
two guys are in their prime, and you start looking
around and San Antonio and Houston this year, I think
will pop, like it'll be different teams, and you start
looking around and thinking, listen, man, we got to start
drafting and developing here, like this is what the league.
If you start looking at the second Apron, what the
CBA is in the NBA, We're not going to get
a third huge star here with Lebron and a d
(47:37):
We're just this is not going to work. So we
have got to draft and develop. And so you can't
watch these playoffs and not come to this conclusion the
NBA has pivoted to young stars Katie Lebron' Steph. It's
over like that. They're not running the league anymore. Like
Tatum now is one of one of the veterans. And
(47:58):
I think my takeaway is, Okay, who who does that?
Who drafts, who builds culture, who's tough. It wasn't a
pivot away from Lebron. It was a pivot toward the league.
The league now is a draft and developed league. That's
these players are going to get rich. But the league
watched what Golden State did with KD and they didn't
(48:18):
like it, and the owners didn't like it, and the
league didn't like it. I can remember talking to fans
of the NBA being like, I hate this. This is
just not fair. And I think the league heard that
Adam Silver did not like that move at all. And
so I think the Lakers, Rob and Jeanie look at
this and think there's a change. We don't want to
be the Clippers, old, dysfunctional. You know one guy, Terrence Man,
(48:42):
that feels like he's young. You know, it's a lot
of names and great on the marquee, it's a great
movie poster. It's not really a championship team. And I
think the Lakers don't feel like it. And you know,
I just I that's my takeaways. They're looking of this
and stepping back and going we like JJ Ruddick, but
(49:02):
he has no history in drafting and developing. This is
not what he does. By the way, there's Connecticut players
in this draft, you know, there's just and also early
the last three years he's recruited almost probably every good
domestic player in the first round he's recruited or seen them.
So I think they're going to be active. And that
was my take, is that you can't watch these playoffs
(49:24):
and not see this gigantic pivot. You know, It's like
when Manning, Brady and big Ben got old and you're
watching Mahomes and Lamar and Allen. It's like, oh shit,
we got ourselves in a new league. As soon as
soon as Tom leaves, we got a new league. It's
a brand new league. And that that was my take
on it. Yours.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yeah, So I there were three reasons that I was
excited about it. The first one is exactly what you said,
the draft and development piece. I think a big part
of it too, Like you mentioned, with the cat rules changing,
it's going to be really difficult to have more than
two stars and most impossible.
Speaker 5 (49:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
And I think he specifically is gonna excel at finding
role players that are great connective pieces next to stars
because the Laker brand is gonna continue to bring in
star talent in one way or another, whether it's through
the trademarket, whether it's through free agency. They're gonna get stars,
but because of the new rules, you're not gonna get
three of them, so you're probably gonna have to and
it's gonna be about working on the margins and finding
(50:23):
discounted valuable players, which I think is something that he's
gonna excel with the second two piece two pieces of
it one. He's an offensive genius, like literally an offensive genius.
And specifically, what I find fascinating is he was capable
of generating space for his offense with multiple non shooters
(50:44):
on the floor, which I think is super fascinating on
a Laker team that has an Anthony Davis that can
struggle to shoot the basketball, that is going to probably
play a Jared Vanderbilt that struggles to shoot the basketball.
And he's he has all these interesting concepts, like he's
really good at disguising his sets. He's a big believer
in weak side action, which basically occupies help defenders by
(51:06):
making them think about what they're doing on the week
side while your stars are running ball screens on the
other side. He's super creative as a tactician, especially on
the offensive end of the floor, which I think is
going to be work wonders for a Laker offense that
can get stagnant sometimes. And then the third piece of
it is he's just a psycho. He's a psycho, he's competitive,
(51:29):
and then I think he's gonna bring enough cachet because
that's the fear, right, Like, if you're gonna play Devil's advocate,
you're like David Blatt comes over championship coach from Europe,
Lebron scoffs at him and says, I want the assistant instead, right,
So that's what you're scared of. But I actually think
Lebron has a lot more respect for Dan Hurley. I mean,
(51:50):
especially seeing as he's been kind of like watching as
a fan as he's had his success over the last
couple of years. I think he'll have some success there.
And then I complain that you NonStop this season about
Darvin Ham not holding players accountable, right, and then becoming
and then becoming a team that was really sloppy for
stretches because they didn't value individual possessions, they weren't good
(52:11):
at attention to detail. That will not fly under Dan Hurley.
He will be on those guys, and I think it'll
help a lot.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Well. I try to defend Darvin ham but he is
a defensive minded coach, and you see this in the NFL,
offense comes easier. The attention to detail from offensive coaches
is better. So like when you watch offensive like Steve Kerr,
like his he if you ever when they Mike Steve Kerr,
he picks on stuff stuff up so quickly, like like
(52:41):
I'm not seeing it. I'm watching the game. He is
a possession to possession coach. Steve Kerr, he watches every
little mistake. Mark Jackson defensive coach. I always viewed him
as more of a defensive coach. The offense could never
quite get in sync. Now, Mark did a good job
on the defensive end, but I thought with Darvin ham
Is he could get players. I thought Anthony Davis was
(53:02):
absolutely sensational defensively this year. I thought he was the
defensive player of the Year, but his offense was inconsistent.
Darvin's not gonna help you a lot there. Darvin was
a very limited offensive player. And so I think I think,
just like in football, I think coaches have vogels good
with bigs, Dan Tony's doesn't Like Biggs, coaches all have
strengths and weaknesses, and Darvin, I thought was not as detailed,
(53:26):
offensively allowed sloppy possessions. What didn't hold players offensively accountable.
They'll make it up on the defensive end. That's not
the league. That's just not the league. You you're gonna
you're gonna shoot your way. I mean, you start looking
at teams. Dallas was a better offensive team than Minnesota.
They won the series. You know it's it's you know,
(53:46):
is as as hard as New York played. You start
look Indiana. It was more consistently a higher tempo, healthier,
better offensive team with offense is winning these series. Like
effort's great, but like that's that's why Boston's favorite in
this series. They've got five six guys that can score
twenty And so I think Darvin doesn't necessarily fit what's
happening to the league, which is increasingly skilled, increasingly unstoppable
(54:11):
for players of size. And I think Hurley's good with that.
He understands what the sport is becoming. That you play hard,
play with urgency, get the details down offensively, don't give
up sloppy possessions. Lakers would have bad quarters offensively, Like
just I mean, there are times if you didn't have
(54:32):
Lebron on the floor and Austin Reeves was in foul trouble,
you were done. They just were a bad offensive unit.
So yeah, I think to your point is I tried
to defend Darvin Ham, But I'm seeing some of the
same stuff in the NFL where the skilled now in
the NBA is just too damn good. It's just too good.
There's just if you're not equipped offensively, possession after possession,
(54:54):
you'll just get run out of this sport really quickly.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Look at this particular matchup here for Dallas versus Boston,
like a big part you mentioned it at the start
of the show, like the stagnation, the lack of the
ball in player movement, the Luca Kyrie kind of yours
that is, it works for Dallas because Luca is so
damn good and he might be the best player in
the world. But like I do believe there's a reason
(55:23):
why the league has shifted towards more ball in player movement.
That's why we're seeing teams like Denver succeed and Golden
State succeed. Golden State kind of really revolutionized five out
offense and brought it to where it is today. And like,
I just think I think Dan Hurley is in touch
with what works in modern basketball, which I think is
going to help a ton. I think he's I think
he understands the complications of the transition to the NBA,
(55:46):
which I think will be his probably his biggest challenge.
But he knows he's gonna have to talk differently to
professional athletes than to college players. He knows that there's
going to be more, you know, media pressure with that
LA job on a day today basis like we talked
about Darvin Ham all the time this season because it's
like that's if you were ranking high, high pressure coaching
(56:07):
jobs in America, Lakers head coach is pretty high up
on that list, especially when Lebron James is on the
roster and so well, I think he's up for it.
I think he can do it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (56:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
One of the things I've talked about today kind of
ad nauseum on my show is I said the Lakers
had twenty years in the second biggest city in the
country with no NFL teams in the NFL eventually gobbles
up every city. And now you've got Harbon, Herbert and
McVeigh and Stafford and the second richest owner in Stan Cronk,
and the Dodgers look like they're one hundred and ten
win team. Here comes USC to the big ten Ballmer's
(56:37):
got a new arena. The key in this is are
you okay? Now? Being the third biggest story in LA
fourth on some weekends, like because this city has got
star coaches and star teams and star players, and it
could be you know, Wagner Rhode Island, Yukon. He had
a losing record each year. He's a culture guy. He's
(56:58):
an oven guy. He's not a microwave guys. None of
this fake bullshit like this is a this is gonna
be a slow roast, okay, And Lebron and Anthony Davis
if he signs a five year, sixty million dollar deal.
The Laker Genie Buss doesn't have the financial wherewithal, she's
not Balmer. That's not a rounding air for her. So
(57:20):
this is a real commitment. So I think everybody's just
got to take a deep breath. The Lakers had this LA.
They were winning titles with no NFL team. The Dodgers
were good but not winning World Series. They owned this
city for twenty years, and they got real use to
leaking stuff to the media on a slough and just
stealing thunder. Well, if you're thirty eight and forty four
(57:41):
in this city next year and Herbert and Harbaugh and
here come the Clippers in their new arena, you're gonna
be the fourth story really quickly the volume. Thanks so
much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a
moment rate and review
Host
Colin Cowherd
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