Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL!
They start with standout debut preseason performances from both Denver Broncos quarterback Bo Nix (4:15), and Chicago Bears quarterback Caleb Williams (12:30).
Then they debate whether the 49ers should pay up for wide receiver Brandon Aiyuk, whether Aiyuk has overplayed his hand and whether the Niners should trade him (26:00).
Then Colin is joined by 'Always College Football' host Greg McElroy to share their thoughts on the upcoming college football season.
Colin & Greg start off with the importance of setting realistic expectations for coaches after changing programs like Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley (32:30), Colin breaks down why Oregon could be the top dog in the Big Ten (45:00) and they debate whether Ohio State football has an identity other than “talented” (49:30).
Finally, they pick the most overrated and underrated teams in college football (53:00)!
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:34):
All right, We're ready to go. John Middlecoff three inn out,
former NFL scout. So my first take was of all
the young quarterbacks, bo Nicks look exactly like I thought
bow Nix was going to look like. And the Broncos
quarterback out of Auburn and Oregon because he had so
many college starts, you kind of know what he is
and what I think I mean. I think the Drew
(01:55):
Brees comp because of Sean Payton feels kind of accurate.
He's certainly right now more mobile than Drew Brees was
at the end of his career. But my take on
bow Nicks was that's exactly what Sean had texted me,
that's exactly what I saw in college. No big surprises.
You're a former scout, what'd you see?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah? I think him and Michael Pennix are two guys
that played in college football for felt ten years and
they played each other. It felt like what four or
five times over the last eighteen months in massive games
and starting with bow knicks, he got dinged a lot
because of the offense he played in right through it. Yeah,
(02:33):
parallel to the line of scrimmage all the time. It
used to happen forever with the leech offensive guys, the
spread offense, you know, Hawaii, Mike Leach, wherever he was
then Oklahoma started. You didn't need a big arm quarterback.
I remember watching him in college going. I think his
arm's a little bit better than the way he's getting
I would say, kind of pigeonholed as a player, and
(02:54):
you watch him today. I don't want to say he's
you know, he's not Brett fahrv or Josh Allen, but
his arm strength is well above average in the NFL,
and that touchdown pass he had was in and out
of his hands in the corner of the end zone,
hitting the guy accurately at the front of the pylon.
It doesn't get any better than that, the velocity, the accuracy,
how quick it is. And then obviously you see again
(03:16):
Patrick Willis isn't exactly chasing him, but clearly his athleticism
moving around translates he's and he's confident. Like that was
the thing with Trey Lance when the Niners got him
his athleticism, he wasn't confident in it because he had
never been chased by the caliber of player. Bo Nicks
has been playing the best of the best, like I said,
for ten years in college and athleticism movement wise. Clearly
(03:39):
what Sean Payton wanted to do and this didn't work
out because he's not a quarterback, was a guy like
Taysom Hill who could move around and throw. You know,
Drew Brees was stagnant in the pocket. Now he's great
at it. But the modern day football, you have to
be able to move to throw. I don't need you
to be Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be able
to keep plays alive. You notice all these rookie quarterbacks athletic,
(04:00):
and they all can throw on the move, and bo
Nicks clearly can and I know Sean kind of old
school not naming the starter had him down. This thing's over. Okay,
I don't even know who the Broncos play week one.
He's your starting quarterback week one. You agree with that,
and this thing will play itself out, you know, I
think you want to make him earn it. Sean is
not one of these new age thirty eight year old
(04:20):
offensive coordinators. Yeah, but this thing played itself out today
in front of everyone's eyes, like there's no point putting.
It'd be one thing if they had Peyton Manning or something.
This Jared stid him like this, this thing's.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
A rand, come on well. And the other thing, he
looked more comfortable in the pocket one of his backups,
Zach Wilson did in any game in New York. His
feet were great, he was set. That's a lot of
it's just college starts. And the other thing is he
played in the SEC, so that's the best defensive conference easily,
and then when he went to the Pac twelve, that's
(04:53):
probably the best the Pac twelve has been in my lifetime.
I mean, Washington was good, Oregon was good, you tah
and thump. Oregon State was good. USC could score Arizona
won seven in a row and beat Oklahoma in a
bowl game. The conference was really.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
UCLA was good on defense these last couple of years.
They had a top fifteen pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So I bow Nick's you know, you say, oh, we
went to the Pac twelve. No, this Pac twelve. Arizona
the basketball school reeled off seven straight and beat Oklahoma
in a bowl game. It was a real Oregon State
was really good at the end of the year. It's like, guys,
this and you know the edit thing about bowl When
I watched him twice. I saw him play Washington Oregon
in person. I saw him at the forty end zone.
(05:34):
And then I went two weeks later, I think it
was or whatever it was. I went to the Utah
game and I got like second row seats. I called
the buddy. I got right down the field, right behind
the Oregon bench because I wanted to watch he and Penix.
And he's more cut than you think he's He's ripped
and he is really verbal on the sideline. Dad's a coach.
And then I met him in person for about an
hour forty five minute interview, forty minute interview before and
(05:55):
after the show. I was just blown away by him.
And then I got a couple early texts from Sean
Pateon and I was like, this kid's really working. And
the other thing about him is there is something to
be said about seeing the field. We've always said this
was Zach Wilson and justin fields, they just don't see it.
It just takes a beat too long. Bo sees the field.
(06:15):
And some of this is not only did he play
at two schools. I believe he had five different coordinators
in five years. It could be four, but I think
it's five. So John, this kid has had to pick up.
We've never seen this kid have the same system back
to back. Here.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Well, think about this, Colin, and we've talked about this
many times. All the best quarterbacks right now in the
NFL have struggled at points in time early in their career.
A lot of them in college. Mahomes was on a
team getting their ass kicked by any good team right
did not have any Josh Allen baked schools like Fresno
State for a scholarship. They said no thanks. Lamar got
(06:52):
drafted thirty second in a draft that had a bunch
of quarterbacks. His own team drafted another player before they
drafted him justin Herbert was kind of an afterthought after
Joe Burrow into a tonguea by Lowe. So you look
at this class. Bo Nicks got beat up bad when
he was in the SEC and had to transfer, and
clearly it changed his career. Right, So you see a
(07:13):
lot of these guys. You know, Caleb is one guy
that had a lot of success, but I think this
class is full of guys that had to struggle, and he,
to me, is at the top of the way. Him
and Penix I mean had to transfer, were not viewed
as first round picks by any means at the time
they transferred and really had to earn it. And both
those two guys, I mean, Bo was awesome. I mean
(07:34):
in college obviously statistically he was incredible. Now, it's a
little inflated the way people play. It's why that any
coach will tell you, Okay, he throws a bunch, you know,
parallel to the line of scrimmage. When I evaluate him,
we don't watch those passes. I think Sean said that
I cut those out and we evaluate everything past the
line of scrimmage, the timing, the rhythm, the accuracy. Yeah,
(07:56):
I mean I was pretty blown away. I mean, I
was bullish on him just because of his coach, but
his physical skills. That's the other thing. Him and Caleb
Bright aren't super tall, and it stands out when you
see him. They're not six four sixty five. Both of
them are thick, both of them are built. Russell, who's
shorter than those guys, had that same thing early on.
You're like, well, he looks like an NFL guy physically. Kyler,
(08:18):
who's even shorter in that also built, and that matters.
And that's like watching Jayden, very physically gifted, throws a
beautiful ball.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But god, he's skinny.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And bo Nicks has this innate ability because he's been
a runner his whole life and he played in the SEC.
He's not playing heroball. Get out of bounds, get down
like I'm getting Caleb yesterday had a great slide, like
you can't be running around JJ McCarthy yesterday had a run.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
There were two defenders.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
He kind of lowered his shoulders like you can't do this.
And I understand John Lynch and Steve Atwater the game
has changed, but that's the only time when these defenders
they can't hit you. All preseason because the starters don't
play joint practices. There's no tackling the ragular season game
for seventeen of them. When you cross that line of
scrimmage and you're erect, they're coming at you. And I
(09:06):
know these guys are a little smaller, they've never been faster.
So these linebackers now, they don't wait two sixty. They
weigh two twenty eight or two thirty four. They're running
four four fours and they will destroy that. They'll break
your collarbone, they'll break your leg.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So well, that's what happened to Baker Mayfield that when
he got his collarbone broken, he tried to size up
a safety. I think it was kar ran over him.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Can't do it. I remember early on in Derek Carr's
career he tried to stiff arm pac Man Jones. Luck
he didn't break his hand.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He hurt his thumb.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
You cannot these guys, And I think bo Nick's very
unique situation. Wouldn't you say to go to a coach
like this with the experience he has, But to me,
the physical skills were pretty god it. I guess I
didn't quite realize how strong his arm was. It jumped
off the TV this morning.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So I want to talk about Caleb Williams of the Bears.
So Jordan Palmer was on my show. I think it
was Thursday, and I thought he made a really good point.
I said, you know my criticism if I have one
of Caleb, he can be a little erratic. I talked
to two gms in the league about Caleb. They didn't
need him, they have quarterbacks, and they both said he
can be a little erratic. You know, sometimes he gets
(10:16):
a bit sloppy. Mahomes does, or did early in his career. Mechanically,
you know, Patrick's running around, he just gets a little
backyard football. Ye, And both the gms I talked to
with Caleb said he just just has to get more
in rhythm, which he said, I think in the pros
he won't run around as much. He's a smart kid.
He'll figure out I don't want to get hit. The
(10:36):
second thing is sometimes he's a little bit of a playmaker,
a little bit of an ad libber. But Jordan Palmer said, listen,
he got bored with college. He was the Heisman winner
right his first year at USC, and then USC can't
stop anybody his second year and he's like, Okay, and terrible,
(11:00):
and he's like, we're not a national championship team. And
Jordan said, when I watched him, I saw a guy
that was bored out of his mind. And I think
there's a lot of truth to that. So when you
get bored, you lose focus. When you lose focus in
any job, you get a little sloppy. I thought Caleb
was a little sloppy last year. And I think sometimes
Lincoln Riley, because of the offensive line, really struggled with
(11:24):
what to call. And I heard that inside the program.
It's like Lincoln just didn't trust the protection. So he's like,
I'm not getting Caleb Williams hurt. I'm not getting it,
you know, because Caleb was He came all the way
out to USC first year, got pretty good protection, wins
the highest. But I think Lincoln feels like, you know
what it's worth it, this is gonna be great by
the second year. Halfway through it. I think Lincoln, what
(11:46):
I was told is Lincoln just there's things Lincoln wouldn't call.
He didn't want to get him hurt. And so I
think go back to the previous year, that's the Caleb
Williams you're going to see in Chicago, which is focused runs.
The play can have live if he has to. But
Jordan's whole point was don't judge too much. In the
last five or six USC games, team was terrible. He
(12:09):
was bored ad lib in a little bit more than
he probably will in real life. So what's your thought
on that?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I mean I think if you go and watch
every play that he had in that preseason game, he
showed every tool in the toolbox. I mean, my mother
could see that play that he made roll into his
right that he threw to comment, that's as good as
it gets. I mean, that's Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. But
the play that he made, the little dump off the swift,
I don't think we talk enough about instincts as a quarterback.
(12:34):
Some guys have him and some guys don't. And that
means feel in the pocket. That means to know when
it's not going to go well and I got rid
of the ball immediately, or when I can keep a
play alive. And I think the new trait that every
team looks for is the scramble to throw and keep
plays alive. But to scramble to throw, you need a
good arm. It's what Aaron Rodgers built a Hall of
Fame career on he could throw outside the tackle box
(12:56):
ropes accurately. And that's what Kayleb william can do in spades,
because let's face it, all these teams in the NFL
now multiple most teams have multiple sweet pass rushers. There
aren't as many good offensive linemen in the league anymore.
So you've got to be able to move. And he's
accurate in the arm. Strength is just elite. Like you said,
he's gonna have a little hero ball, but how could
(13:17):
you not have hero ball if that's the skill that
he has. I mean, Patrick Mahomesry, he had to get
older and realize that we can play a little different.
But early on, like I want him to bring that
to the table because he's accurate throwing the ball downfield.
If he has to move, now there's a difference of
something was open, you didn't need to do that, but
like nothing was there. Your guard gets smoked, you gotta move.
But he made he did it all. He threw a
(13:40):
sweet play I think on like the second or third
pass of the game from the pocket. He had the
crazy instinctive play to swift. He had the play on
the move the other thing, and they I don't know
if you saw hard knocks yet, but they they kind
of did this silly thing where they brought it a
slip and slide to teach the quarterbacks how to slide.
I'm sorry that they were joking about it, but also
kind of serious. It's important. His right arm is the
(14:02):
franchise and he had to scramble where he slid, and
he's gonna have I would say, depending on the game,
anywhere from two to five could be second, and eight
could be third and eight. He can scramble for ten
yards and pick up a first down. But when you
scramble and you're not by the sideline, you gott to
fucking hit the ground and you gotta slide because they
can't touch you, and the defenders know it. When you
stay up and JJ McCarthy did in the game, and
(14:24):
a lot of quarterbacks do it, you're gonna get clipped
and you're gonna get clipped hard. So if you're doing that,
he can stay healthy because he can avoid well. His
short area of quickness is just elite. And then the army.
He doesn't need much space to get that thing off.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Oh no, very mahomes like cognitively see get rid of
it fast, and Frey Marino at USC he sees it
it's out fast. The other thing is Kyler and Russell
Wilson werel was great sliders because they were baseball players. Yeah,
they were great. Lamar was terrible his first two years.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I mean he still kind of plops. He's not natural
at it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
He kind of jumps and sets, but he but he learned.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
How to avoid the hits. You can just get down,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So I think some of that is Caleb, is it is?
I mean, Russell Wilson and Kyler were just like, Okay,
they've slid in a second a lot. This is obviously
the way they do it. Herbert was terrible his first
two years. Like, dude, you're six ' five. You can't
go straight on an outside linebacker. I mean he'd goes
shoulder high and a guy Josh Allen, So I think yeah. So,
(15:24):
I mean the other thing with Caleb, and by the way,
this was Jordan Love. Jordan Love had a better year
the year before he came out, and then he lost
the coordinator. Remember that he lost the coordinator, he lost
a coach, he lost people. He was not very good
as awful. So the Packers went to the previous year
video and went, yeah, that's that's who he is. And
so you take the best of what you saw because obviously,
(15:45):
if you lose a coach at Utah State, you may
get If you have three coordinators at Utah State, two
may stink, one may be okay. So when he had
his best coaches, Green Bay looks at that and goes, Okay,
that's what he can be because our coaches are great offensively.
So I think with Caleb, you go back a year
and go, oh, and the old line was healthy. He'd
come over and Lincoln was not afraid. Remember that year
(16:07):
if they beat Tulane, they went twelve games. They were
really really smoking that year. The second year, I think
just I mean, I was told this, Lincoln just he didn't.
He didn't. It was a different play calling year, a
different sensibility with Kleb, and it was he just wanted
to make sure he didn't get hurt.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I think a lot of people in one talking point
in football is his arm strength a little overrated? And
then you watch Caleb play, and you watch Mahomes, and
you watch Josh Allen or Herbert and you just go bs,
it's just not now. Greg Maddox is one of the
greatest pitchers of all time. He did not throw that hard,
but most of the other greats, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson,
(16:45):
Pedro was blowing ninety seven. You kind of got to
throw hard. And you know, Perty can get away with
it a little bit because his offensive scheme is so
great and he's a good athlete. He can scramble. But
Peyton Manning's one of the most accurate players in the
history of the sport. Arm strength matchs and it always
has and it always will and you see these plays
(17:05):
and you only see it even more once the regular
season starts. All these former quarterbacks talk about the the
kind of space in college relative to the NFL, of
what's open. Things happen quick. A lot of things get
screwed up and you got an ad lib and that
even puts more pressure on your arm. It ultimately can
be the downfall of some of these guys that can't
(17:26):
scramble and don't have a great arm. Like Cousins and
Golf are good examples. When it's perfect, they can destroy you.
They can have four or five touchdowns on you. But
if you can throw them off they can't move, and
then they can't throw very hard on the move. So
it's a major problem. Watch you watch the modern day football,
the modern day football player who's having a lot of
success in the NBA. What is it. You gotta shoot threes?
(17:48):
You better be able to scramble and throw ropes because
these all these young coaches want to get you on
the move. And even when they're not getting you on
the move, because more than likely you're gonna have two
or three offensive linemen that they would gladly rep if
they could, you're going to be running for your life.
And a lot of these the good ones keep their
eyes up, scramble and throw and Caleb, it's like geez
(18:10):
it was to get up on Saturday morning and watch
in the Bill. I mean, vos score was like thirty
three to six. The Bills clearly didn't even care. But
just to watch his physical attribute, you're like, Wow, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Want to talk about San Francisco the forty nine ers.
So I think I told you. I was told by
a player I trust two weeks ago I was going
to be a Niner. He's a I wouldn't say, I
don't know what the word is he's young, he's a kid,
he's emotional, he's a receiver, and so he had told
a friend of mine, I'm getting this thing done. Then
(18:52):
something went sideways. He got pissed off, the Niners got
pissed off at his So my take was my source
was probably right, and then I got pissed off, the
Niners got upset, and it just blew up. Now it
appears they've circled back. Is that what you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I think the Niners drew a line in the sand
said you want to dance, let's dance. They had two
trades ready to go, with contracts ready for him, and
he got cold feet, slash. I don't want to play there,
which I guess is his prerogative. But it's like, you
demand to trade thirty one. Teams can't trade for you.
We have to get fair value. The Amari Cooper in
a second round pick. That's a good deal. Amari Cooper's
(19:31):
pretty productive player. The Niners like, you go to Cleveland.
They have twenty eight million dollars and then he says no.
So to me, it feels like a guy who's gotten
a little over his skis. He does he really want
to leave San Francisco. Of course not because you're a
star with the Niners and he's a West Coast guy,
grew up in Reno when high school in Sack played
at Arizona State. Has become a well known name. But
(19:52):
got so emotional by this number. And let's face it,
the Niners drive a hard bargain. They had a number,
and they didn't flinch because also, you're not a free agent.
We don't have to trade you anywhere. I want to
go to the Steelers. Well yeah, they could get in theory,
I guess they could give you our their first round pick,
but what good does that do us Week one against
the Jets That that's a player that does not exist
(20:14):
for another eight months. First round picks or having two
of them are incredible in February, March, and April. They
do good teams, no good during the season. That's why
ideally you make that trade before the combine. Well, guess
what the Niners probably tried. No one was offering that
at the time. Why great wide receiver draft? Why am
I going to trade you my first round pick? When
I get a wide receiver, is gonna start at a
(20:35):
number Instead of paying a guy twenty eight million I
get the ideally or in a perfect world, the similar
player for four right, just basic economics, and I think
he overplayed his hand. And the Niners are like, listen,
we had these deals, they were the ones we'd accept.
Those are the teams. Everyone knows you're on the block.
No one else is coling, no one else has the money.
You want to go to the Steelers. They have nothing
(20:56):
to give us back. This has to be It takes
two to tango. Here. There's two sides, and we don't
want their draft picks. They're not giving us TJ. Watt,
so that ain't happening. Here's our number. What are you
gonna do? Not play? We want to give you a contract.
No one feels bad for him, and he's emotional. I
can't imagine being twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, have
this money, like the number that you think you're. His
(21:20):
value on their team is a lot different than some
of these guys making twenty nine million dollars. They don't
play like that, and I just think they're kind of
at a crossroads. But he does. I guess he has
the leverage, just not practice. He can demand a trade
all he wants. But if John and Kyle don't want
to trade him. He's not getting traded. Ideally, I think
they want to avoid this, right, they don't want this,
(21:41):
but they're not just gonna give him away because that's
the easy thing to do. So he's kind of stuck,
and it's they're pissed off. I know that obviously he's
he's well established that he's mad. They're mad. And this
is kind of a joke now because at the end
of the day, Bosa was gonna kind of get over
on them. He had all the average, he's the best player.
He was going to get a ton. They go, listen,
(22:03):
you're really good, but DJ Moore has been a lot
better than you. For six years playing with Coward and
middle Cooff as his quarterback, you've had productive quarterbacks and
you're never going to catch more Navy balls here. So
the ROI and R investment, if we give you thirty
million dollars is kind of a doesn't make a lot
of sense. And that's where I think they're kind of
(22:24):
stuck looking at each other. I still believe he's gonna
end up on the Niners, but I think he might
be a first player in NFL history who sounds like
a four year, hundred million dollar deal and is mad
at the Dais when he gives his press conference. Well
get ready for that.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, there's also a reality that receivers in this league
not named Jefferson Chase, Davonte Adams. This league is furnished
about thirty receivers a year out of college, and about
ten are productive immediately. But every other team, I mean,
(23:03):
if you go to the last decade, wide receivers are
walking into this league out of college guys like Puka Nakua,
Tank Dell, mid round guys, and you're like, shit, that
that guy's a one. That guy's not even a two,
he's a one. So the reality is the one position
(23:24):
that is literally expanding, you know, because there's a lot
of families outside of a Texas that aren't playing as
much football. There's not as many high school football players
today is ten years ago. There's not Moms are like
a lot of moms southern California, LA. Forget it. You're
an outcast if you let your kid by high school football,
especially if you're west of the four h five Freeway,
like all the you know, all the high end fallutin
(23:44):
you know, coastal towns.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
So Malibum.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, Hermosa Manhattan Beach in Brentwood, Pliah there does not.
So my take is, but if you start looking at
that position, there's fewer good running backs. You get about
one good left tackle a year, maybe two one star quarterback,
maybe two serviceable ones. I could argue if I went
(24:11):
back and looked in the last decade, do we have
eight receivers a year that come in here and stick.
So it is hard unless you're like very top of
the market. And by the way, if you're very top
of the market, it's also discomforting. These guys now make
thirty million dollars. Some gms are like, I mean, you
better be able to do that on the rookie contract.
(24:32):
You can't pay your quarterback and a receiver thirty large,
like unless he's Jamar Chase. So I think it's one
of these situations where they just if Trent Williams was
in year three in his career and they had two
more years not to pay him, I think you could
be willing to push it. They can't win the Super
Bowl in my opinion without Trent Williams's that's the roadblock
here too.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah, I think like you hit it on the supply
and demand. Brandon a Yuk was drafted the end of
the first round twenty seven. Debo who carried them to
the NFC championship three years was a second round pick.
I watched today. I had the Colts game on in
the background, and the kid from Texas is making plays.
He's a second round pick. So, like you said, every
single year, obviously, first rounders, second, third, and fourth rounders
(25:15):
are making plays all season long at that position. They
cost him million dollars. If this was a real estate deal,
it would have been over weeks ago. The Niners, you
know this. They want two million. Niners are offering one
point six. We ain't budget you're not budgeting. We go
our separate ways. And that's kind of what's happened, except
he's stuck on their team because he's under contract and
their trump card is your fifth year options this year,
(25:37):
and we have two franchise tags. We want to make
this work, but this is our number. You're not a
free agent. You are not a free agent, so you
can sit out to win the season. You're gonna pass
up fourteen million dollars. That's like he acts, and I
think his side they think they got a bunch of leverage.
There aren't a bunch of teams with a lot to
give back. There was one the Browns, the Niners like
(25:59):
that offer a Marii Cooper in the second round pick deal.
And then he's like, no, well, you can't ask for
a trade. This is in the NBA. You're not gonna
dictate all the terms here. And I think that's what's
made him mad and the forty Niners mack because he
won't play ball, like, we are offering you a ton
of money. You're immediately gonna be the highest paid player
on a highly paid team. So yeah, DJ Morris, these
guys make more. They do more for their team in
(26:21):
terms of production. That's never gonna Kyle Shanahan's not gonna
start playing like Andy Reid, right, That's not how they're
gonna play. They're gonna run the ball. I think in
a perfect world, party has like twenty six past attempts
a game. That's what they're shooting for. They're not trying
to play like forty three times he's like, well, I
could be a star receiver. Well, on this team, we're
(26:43):
willing to pay you, and you're gonna thrive and you
can make a ton off. This is the forty nine
ers are top two or three brand in the league.
He makes a ton off the field.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I'm gonna bring in my guest, Greg McElroy, the host
of Always College Football, former Bama quarterback twenty ten national champ.
I've said that we need to temper not only expectations
but criticism of coaches when they go to schools. Look
how long it took Dabo Sweeney or Jim Harbaugh. So
when Harbaugh and Lincoln Riley are interesting comps, so we
(27:12):
know they're both good coaches, nobody disputes that Jim had
a longer resume. And obviously the transfer portal is a
more vigorous. I mean, there were people transferring ten years ago,
but not to the level now. The machine it is right,
And I said, but if you really look at Brian
Kelly and Harbaugh, you know they doubled the wins very quickly.
But it was sort of pseudo. Not can't compete with
(27:36):
Alabama Georgia, but they won the games they should have won.
And Brian Kelly gets to Annatty and gets blown out,
and Michigan, you know, would face Ohio State and it
was fools gold. It took both about seven years, eight
years to stockpile talent where they could play at Georgia
Bama and the games are good and you could on
television You're like, oh, there's pros on both sides. You know,
(27:59):
the Manti t Notre Dame team in the National Championship,
you know, it felt like it would have finished third
in the PAC twelve. But a lot of it's scheduling.
So I say, with Lincoln Riley, as bad as Notre
Dame was in Michigan was, I don't think they were
as bad as USC under Clay Hilton. Not only were
they four and eight, but people inside the program believed
(28:21):
they only had like twelve NFL maybe late round players.
That it was Lincoln Riley identified after two practices, there's
maybe thirty guys we can keep, and so by being
a play away from twelve wins in his first season
was fairly remarkable through those of us closer to the program.
(28:44):
And then the second year they had injuries, Jordan Addison
was gone and frankly, they just know NFL players, it
was Caleb and they kind of shut him down once
they lost a couple of games. They had a defensive
coordinator completely over Ski. So my takeaway is this idea
that USC was going to buy for national championships. They
were way better year one than expectations. That's not really
(29:08):
who they were. They were an early Notre Dameer Harbaugh team.
You know, Harbaugh got from five to ten wins year
one and won the national championship. Team USC couldn't beat
any good teams. They were just beating the crappy teams
on their schedule because of the wizardry of Caleb and
the coaching of Lincoln. So my take is, I think
we're being too unrealistic, even with a transfer portal to
(29:29):
Brian Kelly right now in Lincoln, in that it's still
the sport still comes down to high school recruiting in
chemistry and culture, and you can't do it in two years.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Your thoughts, The problem is you've had guys that have
ruined it for everybody, the Josh Heipels of the world
that in year one progress year two game changer. Right.
We've seen it with urban Meyer his second year at Florida,
I believe they won the national championship, and we've seen
it a handful of other times, saving at Alabama two
(30:01):
thousand and seven, six and six, six, seven and six,
twenty eight, twelve and zero with the chance and the
lead in the fourth quarter to go to the national title.
So yeah, you're right. In normal circumstances, I think it
takes four years to get a real evaluation on the
trajectory of your team. That's my personal opinion. I understand
that big dollars are in play here, and also along
(30:23):
with I think Temper's player and egos are involved, and
the collective doesn't feel like they're getting what they have
paid for, they're going to be quicker to pull the trigger.
But at the same time, I completely agree with you
and those that have said that Lincoln Riley is he's
not he doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't he's
he's way out of his so far. I saw an
(30:45):
analyst and national analyst call on the other day say, oh,
his his tenure at SC has been a quote disaster.
Well to be a win away from the college football
Playoff in year one with the Heisman Trophy winner, sign
me up for that disaster.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Sure, most of the wee NFL two NFL players, one
of them Caleb was a sophomore. I mean that team
had no talent.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And he did a great job with him. The one
thing that does concern me, and I've known Lincoln when
I was a commit to Texas Tech. Lincoln picked me
up at the airport. I've known him for twenty years,
so it's a little bit close to home with me,
and followed him to his years at East Carolina, followed
him in his time at obviously Oklahoma. So I'm wanting
what's best for him as a fan of his, and
(31:29):
it's a fan of the sport. I think it's great
when s he's relevant. So I acknowledge all that he's
done offensively, But I don't know. This is my observation
from a distance. I don't know if they practice the
way they need to practice to be as good along
both lines of scrimmage to compete for championships. And that's
(31:50):
the only question I have. And will he be too
proud to adjust maybe the amount of full contact periods
that they have. Will they maybe do some things offensively
in a drill setting that might give the defense a
slight advantage. Will they do things like that to help
attract more defensive personnel and to create a tougher, more
physical mindset. Because I saw last year they were a
(32:12):
little banged up in spring. This was spring of twenty three.
They said, after like nine practices, Yeah, we're good. We're
just gonna do you know, walk throughs or whatever. At
Georgia They're like, I don't care if we have managers
putting helmets on. We're practicing. So I think that's the
mindset that I'm just a little concerned about. But I
think the I think the Hey, the jury's out right now,
(32:32):
and i'd be I'm actually really optimistic about SC this
year more than most.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Hey what's up everybody? John Middlecoff here for Three and
Out Podcasts.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
The NFL season is right around the corner, and if
you want some of the best football content out there,
I got you covered training camp, through the preseason, throughout
the entire season. Subscribe and follow the Three and Out
Podcast with me John Middlecock on Apple, Spotify, or wherever
you listen to your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I think Oregon is something that we haven't seen out
West since Pete Carroll and ed Orgeron. They've just done
it differently. They've purchased big bodies, So I think Oregon
stacks up in the train. I mean, they went out
and they bought the best left tackle on the West
Coast in the last several years. Two years ago he started,
they've went, and Phil Knight has essentially said, before I die,
(33:28):
I won a national championship, and I'll spend whatever it takes.
People talk about the Texas nil Oregon's is unlimited. They'll
just buy whatever they have to. That's really how it's done.
USC's is thirteen million. I have that on thirteen million.
Depending on the ascension of the program, it could get
to fifteen. But USC's fine. They're not Texas, they're not
(33:51):
A and M, they're not Ohio State, they're maybe not Georgia.
They're not Oregon for sure. So I think Oregon has
purchased and this is not a criticism. Is all legal
now right right, they've gone. First of all, their marketing
is enhanced, even with Mario Crystaball they're recruiting to me
is the best on the West coast, the best on
(34:11):
the West coast. USC's is consistently second because of the
name brand. But Oregon's been recruiting the West coast crystal
Ball landing very well. If they want a receiver or
a dB, they get them. If there's a top edge rusher,
they just get them. They own the Northwest mostly for
the players they want. It's a very weak recruiting year
in my opinion in the West coast this year, especially
the Northwest. I think they match up fine. I think
(34:33):
eye test Texas looks really big. When they faced Alabama
last year the last couple of years, I looked at
it and I thought, God, this is what Alabama looks
like the last ten years against everybody else. You're like man,
Texas passes the eye test. I think the I think
Oregon's going to beat Ohio State in Eugene because I
(34:54):
think Dan Lanning has done something that I didn't think
a Southern guy was going to do with no head
coaching experience. He's immediately I know what Oregon is. I
really do they play their They're a little Detroit Lions, relentless,
they play hard. They got I think privately they would
admit Kaylan de boorr Out coached him and Washington had
(35:17):
a bizarre set of great offensive talent, almost no NFL bodies,
and they matched up with Oregon. I mean, frankly, Pennis
beat ball uh Adunze. Oregon wasn't getting beat because they
were being fooled it's just it was just a bad matchup.
I said it before Washington was gonna beat Texas, they
(35:38):
were not gonna beat Michigan is and so I think
it was I think I watched Oregon play Washington twice
once live. I thought Oregon had more good players. I
just thought Washington was a terrible matchup. So I think
Oregon matches up with Ohio State, and I think if
you match up with Ohio State, you match up with everybody.
I think Alabama's underrated. I think Kayland Boor is magnificent.
(35:59):
I think you know what he is reminds me of
he's really Chris Peterson, where he does have some Peterson
vibes for sure, where you're like, they will never be
out coached at Alabama. Ever, there are games with Nick
Saban where I felt if you had a quarterback that
was good off script, you could frustrate Nick. I didn't
(36:20):
think he was out coached. I thought there were things
Nick did better than other coaches. Klin de Boor it's
almost magical, like Washington's talent on the defensive side is
they had an interior defensive lineman who I think the
Rams got undrafted free free agent.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I mean Tully Nasan, noa. They just have any talent.
So a lot of it was magical. And Chris Peterson
gets the Huskies do a playoff and you're like, how
they don't have Alabama's players. So I think Oregon has purchased,
recruited and developed players. I think Landing has a plan.
I think they match up.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I am not as confident with Ohio State because I
just have felt for three years. And I'll ask you, Greg,
it's not that Michigan beat him, it's how they beat him.
They just don't rush them. They took over all the
second half. Ohio State's never been prettier, but they've never
been more finesse. I'll ask you what are they beyond talented?
(37:19):
What are they?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I think it's a look. They have been a sports
car where winning the Big Ten the last couple of
years has required a big diesel vehicle, a duley if
you will, like, I don't want to say gmc or
ford and like tick people off, I would say forde.
It's Michigan, So that feels fair, right, Let's just go
(37:41):
with that. They have an F one fifty or an
F two to fifty that was one in the Big
Ten the last couple of years, just the reality. So
I don't think that they're finesse though, Like I don't
know if that's entirely and I understand the characterization and the.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Way Ohio State standards.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
They're finesse compared to the Urban Meyer version twenty fifteen
Ohio State versions, that's finesse. But that was a group
that was so outrageously talented. I remember watching that game
in twenty fifteen against Bama on New Year's Day. The
first iteration of the College Football Playoffs was Zeke Elliott
and Cardale Jones. Like, these guys are freaks.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Not only can they fly, but these guys will pound you.
They're so crazy physical. And I think that the Big
Ten has long been a league that was won with physicality,
and then Ohio State found, hey, we can win with physicality,
but we also have some high octane machines on the
outside that we need to feed. So I think they've
(38:38):
kind of gotten away from themselves a bit. And that's
why the hire of Chip Kelly was so massive, because
if you look twenty three consecutive Beers, the team that
has outrushed the other in the game between Michigan and
Ohio State wins the game. You ain't gonna out rush
Chip Kelly's That's that's who he is. That's that's what
he believes in. And while people will look at the
(38:59):
Oregon Neers and and think, oh, they were finesse, No,
they weren't. Just because they used tempo doesn't mean they
were finesse. Look at the UCLA years. Oh, because they
wear like blue, they're finesse. No, no, No, Ucla was far
from finesse. Ucla ran it down LSU's throat. Yep in
the Rose Bowl a couple of years ago. He has
gone out and prioritized running back. They go out and
got quinch On Judkins. They already had Trevon Henderson. The
(39:19):
offensive line is a question mark. But what Chip Kelly
can do is they're going to play hard and they're
going to get by a little bit running the football
with smoking mirrors. So I think they're traditional run sets
that they've used the last couple of years. You're not
going to beat Michigan with that because Michigan's got better
D linemen than you have O linemen. I don't know
why they just do and they've had that for years
(39:40):
and they're probably going to have it again this year
based on what they bring back up front defensively. But
if you have one side of the offensive line blocking
one play, the left side of the offensive line blocking
another play, two completely different plays, you're reading a guy
right in the middle. You can't block him, so you
might as well read them, and you got a pass
play off of it. Now you're cooking them with gas.
So I think Chip Kelly being hired by Ryan Day
(40:00):
Ryan Toy acknowledged that his run game was a blind spot,
and that's a really hard thing for coaches to do too, right.
I mean, hey, I've won a lot of games, I've
lost five games in my career as a head coach, Like, yeah,
I got to acknowledge though, that that's a little bit
of a blind spot for me. I need Chip Kelly
to come in. I'll handle the pass concepts, he handles
the run concepts, and now we're going to make this
thing work together perfectly. So I really like Ohio State
(40:24):
this year. But you one hundred percent right. I mean,
Michigan had their number. Is a terrible matchup, much like
you just talked about with Oregon and Washington. Terrible matchup
for Ohio State, and I wasn't surprised at all to
see Michigan went three straight against him.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Okay, let's do let's do most overrated underrated teams and
close it out this way. I think Michigan's the most
overrated in the in the top twenty five. They lost
not only a depth, they lost like leaders. They lost
like locker room leaders, you know, fifty year seniors. They
also lost the best quarterback Harbass had who I watched
him before he got hurt. Meniscus Tear had a terrific debut.
(40:58):
It's very difficult to lose not only quality starters, but
veteran quality starters like who were clubhouse leaders. I think
Michigan will not be a top twenty team. Overrated, I
think underrated. I I don't know. I think Brian Kelly's
going to figure it out. Jason so good, He's so good.
(41:24):
And I look at all those teams above him, and
I'm like, yeah, they're not going to beat Georgia, maybe Alabama,
Ohio State, but people have them eleventh, twelve, thirteenth, I'm like, nah,
they're better than Utah, and I love Utah. They're better
than Utah. Though Utah returns a guy that's I think
has been starting quarterback for them for eleven years. Cam Rising.
(41:44):
So a little underrated, Lsu, a little overrated, a lot
overrated Michigan, what say you?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, I'm good with the Michigan on the same page there.
My problem with Michigan is, I've just heard a lot
of buzz and it's hard a little bit with that
place too. All Right, is this real or is it not.
I've heard a lot of positive buzz about their offense
and Alex Orgy and how much he's progressed. And I've
seen him run. I know he's a superstar with the
ball in his hands, but I've also only seen him
(42:11):
throw one pass. I've heard that he's got a monster arm,
and I tried to watch him in preseason or in
pregame warm ups every time I've called a Michigan game,
And when I was on the field, I stood right
behind him and watched him throw it. I thought, Tuddle
threw it pretty good too, by the way, for Michigan,
So I thought, hey, when JJ leaves, they'll probably going
to be all right a quarterback regardless. But I just
(42:34):
I look at the rest of the top ten Ohio
State They're going to be there, no doubt. So if
you're going to quantify it as quote overrated, Ohio State's
gonna be there. George is going to be there there
safe bet. I think Texas and Oregon are going to
be there. I think BAM is going to be there.
So the top five feel very very safe. People have
been saying Notre Dame look at their schedule, Like Notre Dame,
(42:55):
they could go nine to three and not be a
team ranked in the top twenty five.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
By the way end the year on the road in LA.
And also, I don't know how good Riley Leonard is.
I have no idea what he is.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I know that Mike Denbrock throw c though, did a
pretty good job with Jayden Daniels, whose skill set was
similar to Riley Leonards when he arrived from Arizona State,
So I think the development portion of bringing him along.
Ryley Lembad has been naturally kind of an inaccurate passer
on the downfield throws.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
That's got to grow his whole career, his whole crazy
wild Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Still optimistic though that it's in there because I've seen
the underneath throws. If you can throw the underna stuff,
you can throw the intermediates, you can throw the deeps.
It's just changing an arm angle, changing the shoulders, changing
the trajectory.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
All that.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I think den Brock will do a pretty good job
with them. I really do, because I think it's a
comparable player to what they brought in with Jadan Daniels,
and that obviously worked out very well. I can't take
him out of the top twenty five though. Their schedules
too manageable. I mean, the toughest games book in the
season sc and A and M. And people say, well,
Florida State, I think Floresta going to South Bend is
(44:01):
a pretty good spot. People say maybe Louisville, Well, you
don't think Notre Dames had that one circled. They got
blown out by Louisville last year at their place, so
I think I think Notre Dame's appropriately ranked. Ole Miss
If people are not on their bandwagon, it's because they
aren't familiar with what Lane Kiffin's done from talent acquisition standpoint.
(44:21):
They're not overrated, they're appropriately rated. You're just not comfortable
with seeing them ranked that high. Then you look at
Penn State, They're gonna be rock solid. I am worried
a little about their offense, but their defense will keep
them minute. Especially with their schedule they have, They're gonna
be fine. Their schedules very manageable in the Pac twelve
or in the Big ten. I think Missouri, I think,
is the other that I would say maybe slightly over
(44:43):
our skis there. So Missouri and Michigan the two that
I'm just not so sure about. Missouri I think it's eleven,
Michigan at nine as far as underrated. Now you're gonna
say I'm crazy. I know this. I'm comfortable with this.
I've been singing the praises all off season. I did
this last year for a team and ended up working out.
(45:04):
I love Miami this year. I love Miami this year.
They coming at number nineteen. Now, a lot of people
are gonna sit there and say, well, this Miami, we
do this every year. You know, the same people that
are saying that right now are the same people that said, well,
why are we building up Texas? Like Texas hasn't done
anything since two thousand and nine. Why are you continuing
to say that they're going to be good this year?
(45:25):
Because they were on paper, Texas going into last year
was great. Now it's about allowing it to come to fruition.
Miami on paper is great. Now it's just about can
they take the next step as a program and not
beat themselves. This was one of the best teams in
America in the first half of the season last year,
and they turn the ball over against Georgia Tech, give
(45:46):
up the big play on the fumble and the couple touchdown.
You know, then they end up that has a huge
ripple effect throughout the rest of the season. Tyler Van
Dyke can't shake the turnover woes and he gets benched
and they give Florida State all they want and then
their starter who replaced Van Dyke gets hurt. Van Dyke's
back in the lineup. I mean, it was just it's
a disastrous season.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Last year.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
They've upgraded a quarterback with cam Ward. He doesn't turn
it over. They couldn't score in the red zone with
any regularity last year. Well, what helps in the red
zone quarterback run game. Cam Ward can run it. They
went and got the best running back available in the
portal and Damian Martinez and that was kind of a
revolving door of players last year with three or four
different guys. We're all solid none have rushed for twelve
hundred yards of the season like Damian Martinez did last year.
(46:26):
The offensive line was a strength last year, it's strength
again to get their top two wide outs back. Defensively,
they have the best edge defender in the ACC who's
only going into his sophomore year in ruben Bain. They
added three more five stars and a couple guys in
the portal. Like they are stocked. The one question mark
is the secondary, and by all accounts that group is
playing well above what they anticipated at this point of
(46:48):
the season. So I think Miami people are gonna be
I think people are gonna look at them and say, well,
we're just here. We are again. We always pump up
the blue blotz. I think Miami's extremely capable with personnel
they have, and I'd be surprised if they're not in
the mix in the ACC ultimately in the mix for
the playoffs. The volume.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
The volume.
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Speaker 2 (01:34):
All right, We're ready to go. John Middlecoff three inn out,
former NFL scout. So my first take was of all
the young quarterbacks, bo Nicks look exactly like I thought
bow Nix was going to look like. And the Broncos
quarterback out of Auburn and Oregon because he had so
many college starts, you kind of know what he is
and what I think I mean. I think the Drew
(01:55):
Brees comp because of Sean Payton feels kind of accurate.
He's certainly right now more mobile than Drew Brees was
at the end of his career. But my take on
bow Nicks was that's exactly what Sean had texted me,
that's exactly what I saw in college. No big surprises.
You're a former scout, what'd you see?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah? I think him and Michael Pennix are two guys
that played in college football for felt ten years and
they played each other. It felt like what four or
five times over the last eighteen months in massive games
and starting with bow knicks, he got dinged a lot
because of the offense he played in right through it. Yeah,
(02:33):
parallel to the line of scrimmage all the time. It
used to happen forever with the leech offensive guys, the
spread offense, you know, Hawaii, Mike Leach, wherever he was
then Oklahoma started. You didn't need a big arm quarterback.
I remember watching him in college going. I think his
arm's a little bit better than the way he's getting
I would say, kind of pigeonholed as a player, and
(02:54):
you watch him today. I don't want to say he's
you know, he's not Brett fahrv or Josh Allen, but
his arm strength is well above average in the NFL,
and that touchdown pass he had was in and out
of his hands in the corner of the end zone,
hitting the guy accurately at the front of the pylon.
It doesn't get any better than that, the velocity, the accuracy,
how quick it is. And then obviously you see again
(03:16):
Patrick Willis isn't exactly chasing him, but clearly his athleticism
moving around translates he's and he's confident. Like that was
the thing with Trey Lance when the Niners got him
his athleticism, he wasn't confident in it because he had
never been chased by the caliber of player. Bo Nicks
has been playing the best of the best, like I said,
for ten years in college and athleticism movement wise. Clearly
(03:39):
what Sean Payton wanted to do and this didn't work
out because he's not a quarterback, was a guy like
Taysom Hill who could move around and throw. You know,
Drew Brees was stagnant in the pocket. Now he's great
at it. But the modern day football, you have to
be able to move to throw. I don't need you
to be Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be able
to keep plays alive. You notice all these rookie quarterbacks athletic,
(04:00):
and they all can throw on the move, and bo
Nicks clearly can and I know Sean kind of old
school not naming the starter had him down. This thing's over. Okay,
I don't even know who the Broncos play week one.
He's your starting quarterback week one. You agree with that,
and this thing will play itself out, you know, I
think you want to make him earn it. Sean is
not one of these new age thirty eight year old
(04:20):
offensive coordinators. Yeah, but this thing played itself out today
in front of everyone's eyes, like there's no point putting.
It'd be one thing if they had Peyton Manning or something.
This Jared stid him like this, this thing's.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
A rand, come on well. And the other thing, he
looked more comfortable in the pocket one of his backups,
Zach Wilson did in any game in New York. His
feet were great, he was set. That's a lot of
it's just college starts. And the other thing is he
played in the SEC, so that's the best defensive conference easily,
and then when he went to the Pac twelve, that's
(04:53):
probably the best the Pac twelve has been in my lifetime.
I mean, Washington was good, Oregon was good, you tah
and thump. Oregon State was good. USC could score Arizona
won seven in a row and beat Oklahoma in a
bowl game. The conference was really.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
UCLA was good on defense these last couple of years.
They had a top fifteen pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So I bow Nick's you know, you say, oh, we
went to the Pac twelve. No, this Pac twelve. Arizona
the basketball school reeled off seven straight and beat Oklahoma
in a bowl game. It was a real Oregon State
was really good at the end of the year. It's like, guys,
this and you know the edit thing about bowl When
I watched him twice. I saw him play Washington Oregon
in person. I saw him at the forty end zone.
(05:34):
And then I went two weeks later, I think it
was or whatever it was. I went to the Utah
game and I got like second row seats. I called
the buddy. I got right down the field, right behind
the Oregon bench because I wanted to watch he and Penix.
And he's more cut than you think he's He's ripped
and he is really verbal on the sideline. Dad's a coach.
And then I met him in person for about an
hour forty five minute interview, forty minute interview before and
(05:55):
after the show. I was just blown away by him.
And then I got a couple early texts from Sean
Pateon and I was like, this kid's really working. And
the other thing about him is there is something to
be said about seeing the field. We've always said this
was Zach Wilson and justin fields, they just don't see it.
It just takes a beat too long. Bo sees the field.
(06:15):
And some of this is not only did he play
at two schools. I believe he had five different coordinators
in five years. It could be four, but I think
it's five. So John, this kid has had to pick up.
We've never seen this kid have the same system back
to back. Here.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Well, think about this, Colin, and we've talked about this
many times. All the best quarterbacks right now in the
NFL have struggled at points in time early in their career.
A lot of them in college. Mahomes was on a
team getting their ass kicked by any good team right
did not have any Josh Allen baked schools like Fresno
State for a scholarship. They said no thanks. Lamar got
(06:52):
drafted thirty second in a draft that had a bunch
of quarterbacks. His own team drafted another player before they
drafted him justin Herbert was kind of an afterthought after
Joe Burrow into a tonguea by Lowe. So you look
at this class. Bo Nicks got beat up bad when
he was in the SEC and had to transfer, and
clearly it changed his career. Right, So you see a
(07:13):
lot of these guys. You know, Caleb is one guy
that had a lot of success, but I think this
class is full of guys that had to struggle, and he,
to me, is at the top of the way. Him
and Penix I mean had to transfer, were not viewed
as first round picks by any means at the time
they transferred and really had to earn it. And both
those two guys, I mean, Bo was awesome. I mean
(07:34):
in college obviously statistically he was incredible. Now, it's a
little inflated the way people play. It's why that any
coach will tell you, Okay, he throws a bunch, you know,
parallel to the line of scrimmage. When I evaluate him,
we don't watch those passes. I think Sean said that
I cut those out and we evaluate everything past the
line of scrimmage, the timing, the rhythm, the accuracy. Yeah,
(07:56):
I mean I was pretty blown away. I mean, I
was bullish on him just because of his coach, but
his physical skills. That's the other thing. Him and Caleb
Bright aren't super tall, and it stands out when you
see him. They're not six four sixty five. Both of
them are thick, both of them are built. Russell, who's
shorter than those guys, had that same thing early on.
You're like, well, he looks like an NFL guy physically. Kyler,
(08:18):
who's even shorter in that also built, and that matters.
And that's like watching Jayden, very physically gifted, throws a
beautiful ball.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But god, he's skinny.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And bo Nicks has this innate ability because he's been
a runner his whole life and he played in the SEC.
He's not playing heroball. Get out of bounds, get down
like I'm getting Caleb yesterday had a great slide, like
you can't be running around JJ McCarthy yesterday had a run.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
There were two defenders.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
He kind of lowered his shoulders like you can't do this.
And I understand John Lynch and Steve Atwater the game
has changed, but that's the only time when these defenders
they can't hit you. All preseason because the starters don't
play joint practices. There's no tackling the ragular season game
for seventeen of them. When you cross that line of
scrimmage and you're erect, they're coming at you. And I
(09:06):
know these guys are a little smaller, they've never been faster.
So these linebackers now, they don't wait two sixty. They
weigh two twenty eight or two thirty four. They're running
four four fours and they will destroy that. They'll break
your collarbone, they'll break your leg.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So well, that's what happened to Baker Mayfield that when
he got his collarbone broken, he tried to size up
a safety. I think it was kar ran over him.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Can't do it. I remember early on in Derek Carr's
career he tried to stiff arm pac Man Jones. Luck
he didn't break his hand.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He hurt his thumb.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
You cannot these guys, And I think bo Nick's very
unique situation. Wouldn't you say to go to a coach
like this with the experience he has, But to me,
the physical skills were pretty god it. I guess I
didn't quite realize how strong his arm was. It jumped
off the TV this morning.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So I want to talk about Caleb Williams of the Bears.
So Jordan Palmer was on my show. I think it
was Thursday, and I thought he made a really good point.
I said, you know my criticism if I have one
of Caleb, he can be a little erratic. I talked
to two gms in the league about Caleb. They didn't
need him, they have quarterbacks, and they both said he
can be a little erratic. You know, sometimes he gets
(10:16):
a bit sloppy. Mahomes does, or did early in his career. Mechanically,
you know, Patrick's running around, he just gets a little
backyard football. Ye, And both the gms I talked to
with Caleb said he just just has to get more
in rhythm, which he said, I think in the pros
he won't run around as much. He's a smart kid.
He'll figure out I don't want to get hit. The
(10:36):
second thing is sometimes he's a little bit of a playmaker,
a little bit of an ad libber. But Jordan Palmer said, listen,
he got bored with college. He was the Heisman winner
right his first year at USC, and then USC can't
stop anybody his second year and he's like, Okay, and terrible,
(11:00):
and he's like, we're not a national championship team. And
Jordan said, when I watched him, I saw a guy
that was bored out of his mind. And I think
there's a lot of truth to that. So when you
get bored, you lose focus. When you lose focus in
any job, you get a little sloppy. I thought Caleb
was a little sloppy last year. And I think sometimes
Lincoln Riley, because of the offensive line, really struggled with
(11:24):
what to call. And I heard that inside the program.
It's like Lincoln just didn't trust the protection. So he's like,
I'm not getting Caleb Williams hurt. I'm not getting it,
you know, because Caleb was He came all the way
out to USC first year, got pretty good protection, wins
the highest. But I think Lincoln feels like, you know
what it's worth it, this is gonna be great by
the second year. Halfway through it. I think Lincoln, what
(11:46):
I was told is Lincoln just there's things Lincoln wouldn't call.
He didn't want to get him hurt. And so I
think go back to the previous year, that's the Caleb
Williams you're going to see in Chicago, which is focused runs.
The play can have live if he has to. But
Jordan's whole point was don't judge too much. In the
last five or six USC games, team was terrible. He
(12:09):
was bored ad lib in a little bit more than
he probably will in real life. So what's your thought
on that?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I mean I think if you go and watch
every play that he had in that preseason game, he
showed every tool in the toolbox. I mean, my mother
could see that play that he made roll into his
right that he threw to comment, that's as good as
it gets. I mean, that's Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. But
the play that he made, the little dump off the swift,
I don't think we talk enough about instincts as a quarterback.
(12:34):
Some guys have him and some guys don't. And that
means feel in the pocket. That means to know when
it's not going to go well and I got rid
of the ball immediately, or when I can keep a
play alive. And I think the new trait that every
team looks for is the scramble to throw and keep
plays alive. But to scramble to throw, you need a
good arm. It's what Aaron Rodgers built a Hall of
Fame career on he could throw outside the tackle box
(12:56):
ropes accurately. And that's what Kayleb william can do in spades,
because let's face it, all these teams in the NFL
now multiple most teams have multiple sweet pass rushers. There
aren't as many good offensive linemen in the league anymore.
So you've got to be able to move. And he's
accurate in the arm. Strength is just elite. Like you said,
he's gonna have a little hero ball, but how could
(13:17):
you not have hero ball if that's the skill that
he has. I mean, Patrick Mahomesry, he had to get
older and realize that we can play a little different.
But early on, like I want him to bring that
to the table because he's accurate throwing the ball downfield.
If he has to move, now there's a difference of
something was open, you didn't need to do that, but
like nothing was there. Your guard gets smoked, you gotta move.
But he made he did it all. He threw a
(13:40):
sweet play I think on like the second or third
pass of the game from the pocket. He had the
crazy instinctive play to swift. He had the play on
the move the other thing, and they I don't know
if you saw hard knocks yet, but they they kind
of did this silly thing where they brought it a
slip and slide to teach the quarterbacks how to slide.
I'm sorry that they were joking about it, but also
kind of serious. It's important. His right arm is the
(14:02):
franchise and he had to scramble where he slid, and
he's gonna have I would say, depending on the game,
anywhere from two to five could be second, and eight
could be third and eight. He can scramble for ten
yards and pick up a first down. But when you
scramble and you're not by the sideline, you gott to
fucking hit the ground and you gotta slide because they
can't touch you, and the defenders know it. When you
stay up and JJ McCarthy did in the game, and
(14:24):
a lot of quarterbacks do it, you're gonna get clipped
and you're gonna get clipped hard. So if you're doing that,
he can stay healthy because he can avoid well. His
short area of quickness is just elite. And then the army.
He doesn't need much space to get that thing off.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Oh no, very mahomes like cognitively see get rid of
it fast, and Frey Marino at USC he sees it
it's out fast. The other thing is Kyler and Russell
Wilson werel was great sliders because they were baseball players. Yeah,
they were great. Lamar was terrible his first two years.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I mean he still kind of plops. He's not natural
at it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
He kind of jumps and sets, but he but he learned.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
How to avoid the hits. You can just get down,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So I think some of that is Caleb, is it is?
I mean, Russell Wilson and Kyler were just like, Okay,
they've slid in a second a lot. This is obviously
the way they do it. Herbert was terrible his first
two years. Like, dude, you're six ' five. You can't
go straight on an outside linebacker. I mean he'd goes
shoulder high and a guy Josh Allen, So I think yeah. So,
(15:24):
I mean the other thing with Caleb, and by the way,
this was Jordan Love. Jordan Love had a better year
the year before he came out, and then he lost
the coordinator. Remember that he lost the coordinator, he lost
a coach, he lost people. He was not very good
as awful. So the Packers went to the previous year
video and went, yeah, that's that's who he is. And
so you take the best of what you saw because obviously,
(15:45):
if you lose a coach at Utah State, you may
get If you have three coordinators at Utah State, two
may stink, one may be okay. So when he had
his best coaches, Green Bay looks at that and goes, Okay,
that's what he can be because our coaches are great offensively.
So I think with Caleb, you go back a year
and go, oh, and the old line was healthy. He'd
come over and Lincoln was not afraid. Remember that year
(16:07):
if they beat Tulane, they went twelve games. They were
really really smoking that year. The second year, I think
just I mean, I was told this, Lincoln just he didn't.
He didn't. It was a different play calling year, a
different sensibility with Kleb, and it was he just wanted
to make sure he didn't get hurt.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I think a lot of people in one talking point
in football is his arm strength a little overrated? And
then you watch Caleb play, and you watch Mahomes, and
you watch Josh Allen or Herbert and you just go bs,
it's just not now. Greg Maddox is one of the
greatest pitchers of all time. He did not throw that hard,
but most of the other greats, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson,
(16:45):
Pedro was blowing ninety seven. You kind of got to
throw hard. And you know, Perty can get away with
it a little bit because his offensive scheme is so
great and he's a good athlete. He can scramble. But
Peyton Manning's one of the most accurate players in the
history of the sport. Arm strength matchs and it always
has and it always will and you see these plays
(17:05):
and you only see it even more once the regular
season starts. All these former quarterbacks talk about the the
kind of space in college relative to the NFL, of
what's open. Things happen quick. A lot of things get
screwed up and you got an ad lib and that
even puts more pressure on your arm. It ultimately can
be the downfall of some of these guys that can't
(17:26):
scramble and don't have a great arm. Like Cousins and
Golf are good examples. When it's perfect, they can destroy you.
They can have four or five touchdowns on you. But
if you can throw them off they can't move, and
then they can't throw very hard on the move. So
it's a major problem. Watch you watch the modern day football,
the modern day football player who's having a lot of
success in the NBA. What is it. You gotta shoot threes?
(17:48):
You better be able to scramble and throw ropes because
these all these young coaches want to get you on
the move. And even when they're not getting you on
the move, because more than likely you're gonna have two
or three offensive linemen that they would gladly rep if
they could, you're going to be running for your life.
And a lot of these the good ones keep their
eyes up, scramble and throw and Caleb, it's like geez
(18:10):
it was to get up on Saturday morning and watch
in the Bill. I mean, vos score was like thirty
three to six. The Bills clearly didn't even care. But
just to watch his physical attribute, you're like, Wow, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Want to talk about San Francisco the forty nine ers.
So I think I told you. I was told by
a player I trust two weeks ago I was going
to be a Niner. He's a I wouldn't say, I
don't know what the word is he's young, he's a kid,
he's emotional, he's a receiver, and so he had told
a friend of mine, I'm getting this thing done. Then
(18:52):
something went sideways. He got pissed off, the Niners got
pissed off at his So my take was my source
was probably right, and then I got pissed off, the
Niners got upset, and it just blew up. Now it
appears they've circled back. Is that what you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I think the Niners drew a line in the sand
said you want to dance, let's dance. They had two
trades ready to go, with contracts ready for him, and
he got cold feet, slash. I don't want to play there,
which I guess is his prerogative. But it's like, you
demand to trade thirty one. Teams can't trade for you.
We have to get fair value. The Amari Cooper in
a second round pick. That's a good deal. Amari Cooper's
(19:31):
pretty productive player. The Niners like, you go to Cleveland.
They have twenty eight million dollars and then he says no.
So to me, it feels like a guy who's gotten
a little over his skis. He does he really want
to leave San Francisco. Of course not because you're a
star with the Niners and he's a West Coast guy,
grew up in Reno when high school in Sack played
at Arizona State. Has become a well known name. But
(19:52):
got so emotional by this number. And let's face it,
the Niners drive a hard bargain. They had a number,
and they didn't flinch because also, you're not a free agent.
We don't have to trade you anywhere. I want to
go to the Steelers. Well yeah, they could get in theory,
I guess they could give you our their first round pick,
but what good does that do us Week one against
the Jets That that's a player that does not exist
(20:14):
for another eight months. First round picks or having two
of them are incredible in February, March, and April. They
do good teams, no good during the season. That's why
ideally you make that trade before the combine. Well, guess
what the Niners probably tried. No one was offering that
at the time. Why great wide receiver draft? Why am
I going to trade you my first round pick? When
I get a wide receiver, is gonna start at a
(20:35):
number Instead of paying a guy twenty eight million I
get the ideally or in a perfect world, the similar
player for four right, just basic economics, and I think
he overplayed his hand. And the Niners are like, listen,
we had these deals, they were the ones we'd accept.
Those are the teams. Everyone knows you're on the block.
No one else is coling, no one else has the money.
You want to go to the Steelers. They have nothing
(20:56):
to give us back. This has to be It takes
two to tango. Here. There's two sides, and we don't
want their draft picks. They're not giving us TJ. Watt,
so that ain't happening. Here's our number. What are you
gonna do? Not play? We want to give you a contract.
No one feels bad for him, and he's emotional. I
can't imagine being twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, have
this money, like the number that you think you're. His
(21:20):
value on their team is a lot different than some
of these guys making twenty nine million dollars. They don't
play like that, and I just think they're kind of
at a crossroads. But he does. I guess he has
the leverage, just not practice. He can demand a trade
all he wants. But if John and Kyle don't want
to trade him. He's not getting traded. Ideally, I think
they want to avoid this, right, they don't want this,
(21:41):
but they're not just gonna give him away because that's
the easy thing to do. So he's kind of stuck,
and it's they're pissed off. I know that obviously he's
he's well established that he's mad. They're mad. And this
is kind of a joke now because at the end
of the day, Bosa was gonna kind of get over
on them. He had all the average, he's the best player.
He was going to get a ton. They go, listen,
(22:03):
you're really good, but DJ Moore has been a lot
better than you. For six years playing with Coward and
middle Cooff as his quarterback, you've had productive quarterbacks and
you're never going to catch more Navy balls here. So
the ROI and R investment, if we give you thirty
million dollars is kind of a doesn't make a lot
of sense. And that's where I think they're kind of
(22:24):
stuck looking at each other. I still believe he's gonna
end up on the Niners, but I think he might
be a first player in NFL history who sounds like
a four year, hundred million dollar deal and is mad
at the Dais when he gives his press conference. Well
get ready for that.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, there's also a reality that receivers in this league
not named Jefferson Chase, Davonte Adams. This league is furnished
about thirty receivers a year out of college, and about
ten are productive immediately. But every other team, I mean,
(23:03):
if you go to the last decade, wide receivers are
walking into this league out of college guys like Puka Nakua,
Tank Dell, mid round guys, and you're like, shit, that
that guy's a one. That guy's not even a two,
he's a one. So the reality is the one position
(23:24):
that is literally expanding, you know, because there's a lot
of families outside of a Texas that aren't playing as
much football. There's not as many high school football players
today is ten years ago. There's not Moms are like
a lot of moms southern California, LA. Forget it. You're
an outcast if you let your kid by high school football,
especially if you're west of the four h five Freeway,
like all the you know, all the high end fallutin
(23:44):
you know, coastal towns.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
So Malibum.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, Hermosa Manhattan Beach in Brentwood, Pliah there does not.
So my take is, but if you start looking at
that position, there's fewer good running backs. You get about
one good left tackle a year, maybe two one star quarterback,
maybe two serviceable ones. I could argue if I went
(24:11):
back and looked in the last decade, do we have
eight receivers a year that come in here and stick.
So it is hard unless you're like very top of
the market. And by the way, if you're very top
of the market, it's also discomforting. These guys now make
thirty million dollars. Some gms are like, I mean, you
better be able to do that on the rookie contract.
(24:32):
You can't pay your quarterback and a receiver thirty large,
like unless he's Jamar Chase. So I think it's one
of these situations where they just if Trent Williams was
in year three in his career and they had two
more years not to pay him, I think you could
be willing to push it. They can't win the Super
Bowl in my opinion without Trent Williams's that's the roadblock
here too.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah, I think like you hit it on the supply
and demand. Brandon a Yuk was drafted the end of
the first round twenty seven. Debo who carried them to
the NFC championship three years was a second round pick.
I watched today. I had the Colts game on in
the background, and the kid from Texas is making plays.
He's a second round pick. So, like you said, every
single year, obviously, first rounders, second, third, and fourth rounders
(25:15):
are making plays all season long at that position. They
cost him million dollars. If this was a real estate deal,
it would have been over weeks ago. The Niners, you
know this. They want two million. Niners are offering one
point six. We ain't budget you're not budgeting. We go
our separate ways. And that's kind of what's happened, except
he's stuck on their team because he's under contract and
their trump card is your fifth year options this year,
(25:37):
and we have two franchise tags. We want to make
this work, but this is our number. You're not a
free agent. You are not a free agent, so you
can sit out to win the season. You're gonna pass
up fourteen million dollars. That's like he acts, and I
think his side they think they got a bunch of leverage.
There aren't a bunch of teams with a lot to
give back. There was one the Browns, the Niners like
(25:59):
that offer a Marii Cooper in the second round pick deal.
And then he's like, no, well, you can't ask for
a trade. This is in the NBA. You're not gonna
dictate all the terms here. And I think that's what's
made him mad and the forty Niners mack because he
won't play ball, like, we are offering you a ton
of money. You're immediately gonna be the highest paid player
on a highly paid team. So yeah, DJ Morris, these
guys make more. They do more for their team in
(26:21):
terms of production. That's never gonna Kyle Shanahan's not gonna
start playing like Andy Reid, right, That's not how they're
gonna play. They're gonna run the ball. I think in
a perfect world, party has like twenty six past attempts
a game. That's what they're shooting for. They're not trying
to play like forty three times he's like, well, I
could be a star receiver. Well, on this team, we're
(26:43):
willing to pay you, and you're gonna thrive and you
can make a ton off. This is the forty nine
ers are top two or three brand in the league.
He makes a ton off the field.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I'm gonna bring in my guest, Greg McElroy, the host
of Always College Football, former Bama quarterback twenty ten national champ.
I've said that we need to temper not only expectations
but criticism of coaches when they go to schools. Look
how long it took Dabo Sweeney or Jim Harbaugh. So
when Harbaugh and Lincoln Riley are interesting comps, so we
(27:12):
know they're both good coaches, nobody disputes that Jim had
a longer resume. And obviously the transfer portal is a
more vigorous. I mean, there were people transferring ten years ago,
but not to the level now. The machine it is right,
And I said, but if you really look at Brian
Kelly and Harbaugh, you know they doubled the wins very quickly.
But it was sort of pseudo. Not can't compete with
(27:36):
Alabama Georgia, but they won the games they should have won.
And Brian Kelly gets to Annatty and gets blown out,
and Michigan, you know, would face Ohio State and it
was fools gold. It took both about seven years, eight
years to stockpile talent where they could play at Georgia
Bama and the games are good and you could on
television You're like, oh, there's pros on both sides. You know,
(27:59):
the Manti t Notre Dame team in the National Championship,
you know, it felt like it would have finished third
in the PAC twelve. But a lot of it's scheduling.
So I say, with Lincoln Riley, as bad as Notre
Dame was in Michigan was, I don't think they were
as bad as USC under Clay Hilton. Not only were
they four and eight, but people inside the program believed
(28:21):
they only had like twelve NFL maybe late round players.
That it was Lincoln Riley identified after two practices, there's
maybe thirty guys we can keep, and so by being
a play away from twelve wins in his first season
was fairly remarkable through those of us closer to the program.
(28:44):
And then the second year they had injuries, Jordan Addison
was gone and frankly, they just know NFL players, it
was Caleb and they kind of shut him down once
they lost a couple of games. They had a defensive
coordinator completely over Ski. So my takeaway is this idea
that USC was going to buy for national championships. They
were way better year one than expectations. That's not really
(29:08):
who they were. They were an early Notre Dameer Harbaugh team.
You know, Harbaugh got from five to ten wins year
one and won the national championship. Team USC couldn't beat
any good teams. They were just beating the crappy teams
on their schedule because of the wizardry of Caleb and
the coaching of Lincoln. So my take is, I think
we're being too unrealistic, even with a transfer portal to
(29:29):
Brian Kelly right now in Lincoln, in that it's still
the sport still comes down to high school recruiting in
chemistry and culture, and you can't do it in two years.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Your thoughts, The problem is you've had guys that have
ruined it for everybody, the Josh Heipels of the world
that in year one progress year two game changer. Right.
We've seen it with urban Meyer his second year at Florida,
I believe they won the national championship, and we've seen
it a handful of other times, saving at Alabama two
(30:01):
thousand and seven, six and six, six, seven and six,
twenty eight, twelve and zero with the chance and the
lead in the fourth quarter to go to the national title.
So yeah, you're right. In normal circumstances, I think it
takes four years to get a real evaluation on the
trajectory of your team. That's my personal opinion. I understand
that big dollars are in play here, and also along
(30:23):
with I think Temper's player and egos are involved, and
the collective doesn't feel like they're getting what they have
paid for, they're going to be quicker to pull the trigger.
But at the same time, I completely agree with you
and those that have said that Lincoln Riley is he's
not he doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't he's
he's way out of his so far. I saw an
(30:45):
analyst and national analyst call on the other day say, oh,
his his tenure at SC has been a quote disaster.
Well to be a win away from the college football
Playoff in year one with the Heisman Trophy winner, sign
me up for that disaster.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Sure, most of the wee NFL two NFL players, one
of them Caleb was a sophomore. I mean that team
had no talent.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And he did a great job with him. The one
thing that does concern me, and I've known Lincoln when
I was a commit to Texas Tech. Lincoln picked me
up at the airport. I've known him for twenty years,
so it's a little bit close to home with me,
and followed him to his years at East Carolina, followed
him in his time at obviously Oklahoma. So I'm wanting
what's best for him as a fan of his, and
(31:29):
it's a fan of the sport. I think it's great
when s he's relevant. So I acknowledge all that he's
done offensively, But I don't know. This is my observation
from a distance. I don't know if they practice the
way they need to practice to be as good along
both lines of scrimmage to compete for championships. And that's
(31:50):
the only question I have. And will he be too
proud to adjust maybe the amount of full contact periods
that they have. Will they maybe do some things offensively
in a drill setting that might give the defense a
slight advantage. Will they do things like that to help
attract more defensive personnel and to create a tougher, more
physical mindset. Because I saw last year they were a
(32:12):
little banged up in spring. This was spring of twenty three.
They said, after like nine practices, Yeah, we're good. We're
just gonna do you know, walk throughs or whatever. At
Georgia They're like, I don't care if we have managers
putting helmets on. We're practicing. So I think that's the
mindset that I'm just a little concerned about. But I
think the I think the Hey, the jury's out right now,
(32:32):
and i'd be I'm actually really optimistic about SC this
year more than most.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Hey what's up everybody? John Middlecoff here for Three and
Out Podcasts.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
The NFL season is right around the corner, and if
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Speaker 2 (33:05):
I think Oregon is something that we haven't seen out
West since Pete Carroll and ed Orgeron. They've just done
it differently. They've purchased big bodies, So I think Oregon
stacks up in the train. I mean, they went out
and they bought the best left tackle on the West
Coast in the last several years. Two years ago he started,
they've went, and Phil Knight has essentially said, before I die,
(33:28):
I won a national championship, and I'll spend whatever it takes.
People talk about the Texas nil Oregon's is unlimited. They'll
just buy whatever they have to. That's really how it's done.
USC's is thirteen million. I have that on thirteen million.
Depending on the ascension of the program, it could get
to fifteen. But USC's fine. They're not Texas, they're not
(33:51):
A and M, they're not Ohio State, they're maybe not Georgia.
They're not Oregon for sure. So I think Oregon has
purchased and this is not a criticism. Is all legal
now right right, they've gone. First of all, their marketing
is enhanced, even with Mario Crystaball they're recruiting to me
is the best on the West coast, the best on
(34:11):
the West coast. USC's is consistently second because of the
name brand. But Oregon's been recruiting the West coast crystal
Ball landing very well. If they want a receiver or
a dB, they get them. If there's a top edge rusher,
they just get them. They own the Northwest mostly for
the players they want. It's a very weak recruiting year
in my opinion in the West coast this year, especially
the Northwest. I think they match up fine. I think
(34:33):
eye test Texas looks really big. When they faced Alabama
last year the last couple of years, I looked at
it and I thought, God, this is what Alabama looks
like the last ten years against everybody else. You're like man,
Texas passes the eye test. I think the I think
Oregon's going to beat Ohio State in Eugene because I
(34:54):
think Dan Lanning has done something that I didn't think
a Southern guy was going to do with no head
coaching experience. He's immediately I know what Oregon is. I
really do they play their They're a little Detroit Lions, relentless,
they play hard. They got I think privately they would
admit Kaylan de boorr Out coached him and Washington had
(35:17):
a bizarre set of great offensive talent, almost no NFL bodies,
and they matched up with Oregon. I mean, frankly, Pennis
beat ball uh Adunze. Oregon wasn't getting beat because they
were being fooled it's just it was just a bad matchup.
I said it before Washington was gonna beat Texas, they
(35:38):
were not gonna beat Michigan is and so I think
it was I think I watched Oregon play Washington twice
once live. I thought Oregon had more good players. I
just thought Washington was a terrible matchup. So I think
Oregon matches up with Ohio State, and I think if
you match up with Ohio State, you match up with everybody.
I think Alabama's underrated. I think Kayland Boor is magnificent.
(35:59):
I think you know what he is reminds me of
he's really Chris Peterson, where he does have some Peterson
vibes for sure, where you're like, they will never be
out coached at Alabama. Ever, there are games with Nick
Saban where I felt if you had a quarterback that
was good off script, you could frustrate Nick. I didn't
(36:20):
think he was out coached. I thought there were things
Nick did better than other coaches. Klin de Boor it's
almost magical, like Washington's talent on the defensive side is
they had an interior defensive lineman who I think the
Rams got undrafted free free agent.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I mean Tully Nasan, noa. They just have any talent.
So a lot of it was magical. And Chris Peterson
gets the Huskies do a playoff and you're like, how
they don't have Alabama's players. So I think Oregon has purchased,
recruited and developed players. I think Landing has a plan.
I think they match up.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I am not as confident with Ohio State because I
just have felt for three years. And I'll ask you, Greg,
it's not that Michigan beat him, it's how they beat him.
They just don't rush them. They took over all the
second half. Ohio State's never been prettier, but they've never
been more finesse. I'll ask you what are they beyond talented?
(37:19):
What are they?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I think it's a look. They have been a sports
car where winning the Big Ten the last couple of
years has required a big diesel vehicle, a duley if
you will, like, I don't want to say gmc or
ford and like tick people off, I would say forde.
It's Michigan, So that feels fair, right, Let's just go
(37:41):
with that. They have an F one fifty or an
F two to fifty that was one in the Big
Ten the last couple of years, just the reality. So
I don't think that they're finesse though, Like I don't
know if that's entirely and I understand the characterization and the.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Way Ohio State standards.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
They're finesse compared to the Urban Meyer version twenty fifteen
Ohio State versions, that's finesse. But that was a group
that was so outrageously talented. I remember watching that game
in twenty fifteen against Bama on New Year's Day. The
first iteration of the College Football Playoffs was Zeke Elliott
and Cardale Jones. Like, these guys are freaks.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Not only can they fly, but these guys will pound you.
They're so crazy physical. And I think that the Big
Ten has long been a league that was won with physicality,
and then Ohio State found, hey, we can win with physicality,
but we also have some high octane machines on the
outside that we need to feed. So I think they've
(38:38):
kind of gotten away from themselves a bit. And that's
why the hire of Chip Kelly was so massive, because
if you look twenty three consecutive Beers, the team that
has outrushed the other in the game between Michigan and
Ohio State wins the game. You ain't gonna out rush
Chip Kelly's That's that's who he is. That's that's what
he believes in. And while people will look at the
(38:59):
Oregon Neers and and think, oh, they were finesse, No,
they weren't. Just because they used tempo doesn't mean they
were finesse. Look at the UCLA years. Oh, because they
wear like blue, they're finesse. No, no, No, Ucla was far
from finesse. Ucla ran it down LSU's throat. Yep in
the Rose Bowl a couple of years ago. He has
gone out and prioritized running back. They go out and
got quinch On Judkins. They already had Trevon Henderson. The
(39:19):
offensive line is a question mark. But what Chip Kelly
can do is they're going to play hard and they're
going to get by a little bit running the football
with smoking mirrors. So I think they're traditional run sets
that they've used the last couple of years. You're not
going to beat Michigan with that because Michigan's got better
D linemen than you have O linemen. I don't know
why they just do and they've had that for years
(39:40):
and they're probably going to have it again this year
based on what they bring back up front defensively. But
if you have one side of the offensive line blocking
one play, the left side of the offensive line blocking
another play, two completely different plays, you're reading a guy
right in the middle. You can't block him, so you
might as well read them, and you got a pass
play off of it. Now you're cooking them with gas.
So I think Chip Kelly being hired by Ryan Day
(40:00):
Ryan Toy acknowledged that his run game was a blind spot,
and that's a really hard thing for coaches to do too, right.
I mean, hey, I've won a lot of games, I've
lost five games in my career as a head coach, Like, yeah,
I got to acknowledge though, that that's a little bit
of a blind spot for me. I need Chip Kelly
to come in. I'll handle the pass concepts, he handles
the run concepts, and now we're going to make this
thing work together perfectly. So I really like Ohio State
(40:24):
this year. But you one hundred percent right. I mean,
Michigan had their number. Is a terrible matchup, much like
you just talked about with Oregon and Washington. Terrible matchup
for Ohio State, and I wasn't surprised at all to
see Michigan went three straight against him.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Okay, let's do let's do most overrated underrated teams and
close it out this way. I think Michigan's the most
overrated in the in the top twenty five. They lost
not only a depth, they lost like leaders. They lost
like locker room leaders, you know, fifty year seniors. They
also lost the best quarterback Harbass had who I watched
him before he got hurt. Meniscus Tear had a terrific debut.
(40:58):
It's very difficult to lose not only quality starters, but
veteran quality starters like who were clubhouse leaders. I think
Michigan will not be a top twenty team. Overrated, I
think underrated. I I don't know. I think Brian Kelly's
going to figure it out. Jason so good, He's so good.
(41:24):
And I look at all those teams above him, and
I'm like, yeah, they're not going to beat Georgia, maybe Alabama,
Ohio State, but people have them eleventh, twelve, thirteenth, I'm like, nah,
they're better than Utah, and I love Utah. They're better
than Utah. Though Utah returns a guy that's I think
has been starting quarterback for them for eleven years. Cam Rising.
(41:44):
So a little underrated, Lsu, a little overrated, a lot
overrated Michigan, what say you?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, I'm good with the Michigan on the same page there.
My problem with Michigan is, I've just heard a lot
of buzz and it's hard a little bit with that
place too. All Right, is this real or is it not.
I've heard a lot of positive buzz about their offense
and Alex Orgy and how much he's progressed. And I've
seen him run. I know he's a superstar with the
ball in his hands, but I've also only seen him
(42:11):
throw one pass. I've heard that he's got a monster arm,
and I tried to watch him in preseason or in
pregame warm ups every time I've called a Michigan game,
And when I was on the field, I stood right
behind him and watched him throw it. I thought, Tuddle
threw it pretty good too, by the way, for Michigan,
So I thought, hey, when JJ leaves, they'll probably going
to be all right a quarterback regardless. But I just
(42:34):
I look at the rest of the top ten Ohio
State They're going to be there, no doubt. So if
you're going to quantify it as quote overrated, Ohio State's
gonna be there. George is going to be there there
safe bet. I think Texas and Oregon are going to
be there. I think BAM is going to be there.
So the top five feel very very safe. People have
been saying Notre Dame look at their schedule, Like Notre Dame,
(42:55):
they could go nine to three and not be a
team ranked in the top twenty five.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
By the way end the year on the road in LA.
And also, I don't know how good Riley Leonard is.
I have no idea what he is.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I know that Mike Denbrock throw c though, did a
pretty good job with Jayden Daniels, whose skill set was
similar to Riley Leonards when he arrived from Arizona State,
So I think the development portion of bringing him along.
Ryley Lembad has been naturally kind of an inaccurate passer
on the downfield throws.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
That's got to grow his whole career, his whole crazy
wild Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Still optimistic though that it's in there because I've seen
the underneath throws. If you can throw the underna stuff,
you can throw the intermediates, you can throw the deeps.
It's just changing an arm angle, changing the shoulders, changing
the trajectory.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
All that.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I think den Brock will do a pretty good job
with them. I really do, because I think it's a
comparable player to what they brought in with Jadan Daniels,
and that obviously worked out very well. I can't take
him out of the top twenty five though. Their schedules
too manageable. I mean, the toughest games book in the
season sc and A and M. And people say, well,
Florida State, I think Floresta going to South Bend is
(44:01):
a pretty good spot. People say maybe Louisville, Well, you
don't think Notre Dames had that one circled. They got
blown out by Louisville last year at their place, so
I think I think Notre Dame's appropriately ranked. Ole Miss
If people are not on their bandwagon, it's because they
aren't familiar with what Lane Kiffin's done from talent acquisition standpoint.
(44:21):
They're not overrated, they're appropriately rated. You're just not comfortable
with seeing them ranked that high. Then you look at
Penn State, They're gonna be rock solid. I am worried
a little about their offense, but their defense will keep
them minute. Especially with their schedule they have, They're gonna
be fine. Their schedules very manageable in the Pac twelve
or in the Big ten. I think Missouri, I think,
is the other that I would say maybe slightly over
(44:43):
our skis there. So Missouri and Michigan the two that
I'm just not so sure about. Missouri I think it's eleven,
Michigan at nine as far as underrated. Now you're gonna
say I'm crazy. I know this. I'm comfortable with this.
I've been singing the praises all off season. I did
this last year for a team and ended up working out.
(45:04):
I love Miami this year. I love Miami this year.
They coming at number nineteen. Now, a lot of people
are gonna sit there and say, well, this Miami, we
do this every year. You know, the same people that
are saying that right now are the same people that said, well,
why are we building up Texas? Like Texas hasn't done
anything since two thousand and nine. Why are you continuing
to say that they're going to be good this year?
(45:25):
Because they were on paper, Texas going into last year
was great. Now it's about allowing it to come to fruition.
Miami on paper is great. Now it's just about can
they take the next step as a program and not
beat themselves. This was one of the best teams in
America in the first half of the season last year,
and they turn the ball over against Georgia Tech, give
(45:46):
up the big play on the fumble and the couple touchdown.
You know, then they end up that has a huge
ripple effect throughout the rest of the season. Tyler Van
Dyke can't shake the turnover woes and he gets benched
and they give Florida State all they want and then
their starter who replaced Van Dyke gets hurt. Van Dyke's
back in the lineup. I mean, it was just it's
a disastrous season.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Last year.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
They've upgraded a quarterback with cam Ward. He doesn't turn
it over. They couldn't score in the red zone with
any regularity last year. Well, what helps in the red
zone quarterback run game. Cam Ward can run it. They
went and got the best running back available in the
portal and Damian Martinez and that was kind of a
revolving door of players last year with three or four
different guys. We're all solid none have rushed for twelve
hundred yards of the season like Damian Martinez did last year.
(46:26):
The offensive line was a strength last year, it's strength
again to get their top two wide outs back. Defensively,
they have the best edge defender in the ACC who's
only going into his sophomore year in ruben Bain. They
added three more five stars and a couple guys in
the portal. Like they are stocked. The one question mark
is the secondary, and by all accounts that group is
playing well above what they anticipated at this point of
(46:48):
the season. So I think Miami people are gonna be
I think people are gonna look at them and say, well,
we're just here. We are again. We always pump up
the blue blotz. I think Miami's extremely capable with personnel
they have, and I'd be surprised if they're not in
the mix in the ACC ultimately in the mix for
the playoffs. The volume.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
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Colin Cowherd
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