August 3, 2024 • 43 mins
Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to discuss the emergence of GM’s in college football (4:00), debate whether giving Tua the bag was the right move for the Dolphins (11:30), whether Russell Wilson could lose the rocker room and starting job for the Steelers (24:00) and which teams could overperform their win total expectations (27:45)
Then Colin Cowherd & Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” react to Team USA’s win over South Sudan in Olympic basketball. Colin & Jason discuss Joel Embiid’s benching (31:00), Steph Curry's struggles with FIBA rules (40:00), Victor Wembanyama's growth (42:45) and LeBron still being the alpha for Team USA (46:30).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 2 (02:00):
All right, it is time. This is sort of the
semi official start, John or I may miss one Sunday,
but this is kind of the official start. As we
move into August very quickly, John, former NFL scout three
and out what's going to happen in college football in
the next year. This is really a thing that's happening.
(02:20):
So I've talked to two different athletic directors. Is these
college programs are going to hire general managers because right now,
these guys don't know how to work their cap. So
let's say I'll just take usc they're making somewhere between
thirteen and fifteen million in IL. That's what I've been told.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You're saying, that's their budget to pay, that's.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Their annual budget. They're building new facilities. That money is
always easy to get. Boosters love facilities, they can.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Feel put their name on it.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, right, nil again about thirteen million a year in
that ballpark. They don't know how to spend it. They
don't know. They just don't understand quite they needed general manager.
So I think what's going to happen in college football
in the next eighteen months. A guy like a Chris
Peterson who works at Fox, A guy like a Chris Peter.
(03:08):
You hire Chris Peterson, you give him a good salary,
and see, Chris, you just run the cap. You organizationally
kind of run our personnel. You don't get the heat
of the coach. And I think that guys like Chris
Peterson are going to have schools throw seven figures at
them and say, can you run from a personnel standpoint,
organize our football program because these guys, these schools now
(03:32):
are paying high schoolers, not seniors. They're paying juniors to
announce they're going to the schools. So I think there's
a massive shift going on. UCLA can't compete at all.
Thank god they're moving to the Big Ten because the
home attendants will buoye their you know, their revenue, but
they have a debt service every year. They're they're in
big trouble.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Did you see the highlight of Deshaun Foster talking about that,
which is crazy because he was a high level college player,
good NFL player. It's not like he's never been in
front of the media. He's not some lifetime coach. It
was pretty it felt very UCLA right now and kind
of Mickey Mouse and it's they're going to be terrible.
Jake Rosenberg, who I was dming with this weekend, who
(04:14):
I used to work with with the Eagles, who was
one of how he's right hand men with the Cap,
who worked in finance before he got hired with the Eagles,
left the Eagles and created a company and is now
working with Oklahoma. He's literally signed contracts and worked with
these contracts and his business will only grow exponentially quick
because again, obviously thirteen million is less than two hundred
(04:36):
million NFL salary cap. But it's still These guys aren't
used to and philosophically. You know, Kirby Smart I've heard,
is very uncomfortable getting to a certain number with a
high school kid. Yeah, he will pay his own guy
once he gets established, or pay a transfer portal guy.
But in terms of a high school kid, I mean
Nebraska Dominic Riola, who I think is the dad? I
(04:56):
feel the kid's name. Who's the quarterback? You know, there
are rumors he we got four million dollars and you
fall college recruiting right closer than I do. We have
seen a million number one, number two overall guys, the
guys that turn into Andrew Locke and Trevor Lawrence and
Caleb Williams. But those guys are actually the minority. Yeah,
the majority bounce around, become average, get benched. That's a
(05:18):
very risky proposition. Like you said, you don't have fifty
million to deal with, So if you're gonna allocate several million,
wasn't the thing a couple of years ago with USC
I guess it would have been two years ago when
they had Jordan Adison and Caleb weren't those guys taking
like eighty percent of their nil money to the two players. Yeah,
it's they were worth it. But still, I mean, you
better get it right.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's a much bigger mess than anybody in the sports
media is talking about. It is a shit show. It is.
These schools are paying juniors in high school. Some of
these guys take the money and then they flip their
senior year to the school that comes to like an
Oregon and pays more money. So it's a mess. So
general managers are coming. I think venture capitalists could own
(06:05):
chunks of college football programs. But it is is it's
pro football and the air thing. You know, the other
thing athletic directors are going to have to go through
over the next couple of years. John, All these sports
are driven by football. At basketball makes money for men
and women at a lot of colleges. After that, they
all lose money. So let's save money a lot. I
(06:27):
mean so, but it's hard because if let's say you
have a swimming program or a golf program and it
loses a million a year, but your third biggest booster
in the athletic department supports their kid who's on the
swimming team. So it's very you get you have to
be very judicious with your decisions because a lot of
times the biggest boosters their kids, you know, they got
(06:51):
a scholarship in golf for swimming or water polo or fencing.
It out east hockey and it's like the sport loses
US three million, but the guy gave US eight million.
I think if you really privately asked athletic directors what
they could do, they would all shave off twenty programs,
twenty five programs. You can't make money. And so I've
(07:13):
said years ago you should privatize football. But a lot
of the biggest boosters at these schools are not football boosters.
And so but I'm here to tell you there's guys
out there, the Chris Peterson's Bob Stoops. Those guys. Now
people are going to start calling them and say, do
you want to run the program? You're the GM, here's
(07:36):
a million a year. Just organize this stuff. Run our
cap and or xgms at fifty five who are just
burnout from crazy owners. There's a new industry starting in
college football. General managers are a year away from being
hired everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, that's why you're going to see it this year,
and it's only going to grow the next five years.
Is the wiping out of all the and them colleges.
When it comes to football. I was at the gym
today and this guy who looked like he played football
was decked out in Washington State football gear. Kind of
made me sad, you know, I mean, we grew up
on that program playing in big games. They're going to
(08:13):
turn it in closer to UC Davis in the next
five years than they are back to Washington because the
money the SEC has made. I mean, look at the SEC,
the amount they pay college basketball coaches now, I mean
they're college basketball conference now. I fall college golf because
a lot of the top guys go on to the
PGA Tour. All the college golf programs in the SEC
they flay private because, like you say, they have big boosters,
(08:36):
they have the football money behind it, and the Big
Ten is not going to be far behind as they
start making gobs of cash now that they've gotten Oregon
and USC and it's inevitable. It feels like Notre Dame,
you know, and those programs go and the SEC gets
Florida State and Clemson over the next decade, it's gonna
wipe out the little guy. And I started at Fresno State.
They don't have a snowballs chance in hell to survive.
(08:57):
And it's just it's going to become the NFL light
because I get a lot of questions like why doesn't
the NFL invest in minor league football? So why would they?
College football produces all their talent and they don't have
to spend a penny, so why would they spend any
expense on developing players. Besides, once they have them in
their own building, when college football is doing it for them,
(09:21):
they're spending all them and football, like you said, makes
all the money in college sports. It's it's also the
most expensive program to run. It's why you know where
I grew up in Northern California, Saint Mary's Santa Clara.
When I worked for Pat Hill, he played at Riverside.
Those programs back in the seventies, Pete Carroll played it,
you know, Piscopic School, Pacific. They all cut football after
(09:43):
a while because they couldn't afford it. And that's back,
I mean, they were bare bones. So it just becomes
how does Washington State or Fresno State or New Mexico
whose programs forever, I mean they were playing real football,
how do they survive moving forward? And the answer is
they just don't. That's just the way kind of business works, right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So I'm looking at all these new contracts, and you know,
it really is interesting. I'm totally comfortable with Jordan loves
and some of it's just this because I fashioned myself
as a poor man's scout. He's bigger than Tua, he's
faster than to A, he's got a better arm than
to A, and Green Bay almost always gets offense, right.
(10:22):
I really that's my bias, whereas too a smaller don't
love his arm, not his athletic and Miami screws stuff
up the two two hundred and twelve million dollars. I'm
a little uncomfortable with it. I don't think I would
have gone there. But I think to myself all the
time what Jay Glazer once said, the worst great job
in America is being a football coach. Driving to the
(10:46):
stadium knowing you're going to win six games, and if
two is upright, you have a chance to win eleven.
So I just think I trust the Packers, Jordan's bigger, stronger, faster,
better whip. Where are you on TUA twelve over four years?
Would you have gone there?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And one hundred and seventy million dollars guaranteed? Is insane
to me? I think there's two ways to look at it.
That contract to me is jaw dropping. I think most
people that have watched and play go that's crazy. That's
that's insane because you have no shot to beat any
of the top quarterbacks who are all in your conference.
And we just saw last year you were like, what
(11:25):
were they eight and one or nine and two and
the other Bills were six and six and they still
ended up winning the division. Why because Josh Allen translates
in November, December and January and your guy doesn't. But
there is value in just being relevant and competing to
make the wild card everything. Yes, So why can't we
find some middle ground of like Alex Smith never made
(11:45):
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady money, but like
he was getting Harbaugh and Andy Reid to the playoffs
and there was value in him. And now we've got
to the point of like, well you just gotta make
this much? Why why couldn't you just offer him Daniel
Jones money like ninety million dollars guaranteed. You cut that
guarantee in half. Who are you bidding against the thing
(12:06):
with Dak? You know if he hit the open market,
other people would be interested. The Raiders would take him
into heartbeat like they were. And he's proven like every
single year you can win twelve games. Toua. It still
feels like is he even that good? But but he
clearly you could win with him. You have a good
offensive coordinator. He's a good guy like all the character stuff,
but his physical flaws one, he's a relic. He's a
(12:27):
true pocket quarterback, bad athlete. Relative. And I heard you,
what was your analogy about the furniture with you with
your quarterbacks?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I like, I like my quarterbacks like my furniture, big
and hard to move.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, so the old school quarterbacks. Anyone that's ever met
one of these guys, Carson, Palmer, Eli or Peyton. Did
you see the pictures of Peyton at Team USA practice
standing next to all these guys that are six seven
and six ten. He does not look that much smaller
than any of them. Know, the Mannings are huge. Carson
Palmer is a giant. Philip Versus is huge. Well, that's
(13:01):
how to a place. The problem is he's six feet tall. Yeah,
and he's got a weak arm, so he doesn't translate
to the winter. Well, he plays in the division with
cold weather teams. So I just I get investing in him.
And if you would have said, hey, they signed him
to a three year, one hundred million dollar deal, and
they guaranteed every pennon of like, I kind of get it.
(13:22):
But to pay him enormous money, I think is insane.
I just don't know. Like when it comes to Jordan Love,
if you and I pulled every GM we know and
said who would you take for this next five years,
Jordan Love or to us all take Jordan, it'd be
unanimous and it would be one hundred percent. So Jordan
Love technically signed for less. That's what I just think. Listen,
(13:46):
I don't get it. That's I'm shortened the Dolphins for
the next three or four years. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And here's the other issue. In thirty two years since
Brett fav arrived, it's been thirty two years since he
stepped foot. He was a packer. The packer have the
number one rated offense in the league, second, winning his
team to New England, and have never in thirty two
years that I recall, have a bad offensive line. So
(14:11):
if you look at the ancillary reality of Green Bay,
Jordan Love will get better protection on average and better
coaching on average. So Jordan Love got paid less and
has much better support system. So I mean, Steven Ross
is one of the richer owners, but do you really
trust him. He's always been a distracted owner and Miami
(14:36):
hasn't had a great offensive line since Don Shula. So
my take is, not only don't I Love to a contract,
but let's just be honest. Over five years of it,
he'll have middle of the Paco lines and there's the
possibility that they won't draft terribly well. I mean Green
(14:56):
Bay is I said this the other day, like there's
certain people. Spielberg makes a movie or is involved in something.
If you go to his like movie page, it's almost
always good. He doesn't he has B projects. He doesn't
have any c's like Green Bay. If they had a
bad season, it's because a quarterback got hurt. I mean,
there are B two A minus virtually B plus to
(15:19):
A minus every year in my life So the other
thing I don't like about Tua is Marino had shula.
I don't think Mike McDaniels, I guess the way I
would say it's this. They are about four organizations and
four ownership groups I just trust implicitly, and Miami's not
(15:39):
one of them.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No. I think people often ask like, why have the
Ravens stayed so consistent over now two and a half decades.
They've had the same people there forever. So Eric DeCosta,
who's now in charge, worked for Ozzie Newson for twenty years. Well,
when you look at the Packers, it's kind of similar.
Maybe coaches, you know, they go from McCarthy to the floor,
(16:03):
But Gudakins worked for Ted Thompson, who worked for Ron Wolf.
I mean, the carryover of the philosophical beliefs of the
organization have not changed, the non negotiables of what you
look for in players, the way you develop. Obviously in
Green Bay they love offensive coaches, and I think when
you look at Jordan Love, I don't think they get
(16:24):
enough credit because we just the way our society works,
were always on to the next for when they pulled
the trigger on drafting them. I mean it was pretty ugly.
They got destroyed. You know, Charlie Munger says, if you
can't handle, you know, the fifty percent downturns, you deserve
the mediocre returns. Well, they that was ugly. I mean
it created this weird dynamic with Rogers. It was crazy
(16:45):
even though Rogers member was coming off that kind of
weird season their first year. But when they did it
well three four years later, it's paying off big dividends.
Now they're still risk involved. But there are still some
unknown with this player. He's only had eight good games.
But I don't know if you have watched any of
just I watched a little bit of his press conference
I think yesterday, and I saw a clip today with
(17:05):
the NFL networkers there. Just because he's been the backup,
you haven't really heard. He's pretty impressive, Yes, you just
as a guy. And yes, his maturity. I was like,
oh damn, that's this is this has a Mahomes Josh Allen.
The way he carries himself. And obviously, like you said,
first off, you have to have the physical. Alex Smith
checked every box except weak armed. Yeah, you know, he
(17:27):
had a great arm. He would have been Rogers or something.
You know, and that's what this guy has. He has
these physical characteristics, he has the infrastructure around him, and
then he has the maturity. I I think, you just
I don't know if he's gonna be then Aaron Rodgers
two point zero, But how's he not gonna be pretty
damn good, you know? And that's it's listen my life.
(17:50):
Joe Montana was a little bit before me. I remember
as a kid he was more on the Chiefs than
Steve Young and then Jeff Garcia, who was nowhere near
as good as those two, but he was still damn
good going the I think this guy has a chance
to be like their version of Jeff Garcia, but the
but actually closer to Rogers are fourth, and that's why
I think they are. They feel really good. Now he
(18:11):
got he got seventy five million dollars signing bonus. He
will get seventy five million dollars. I think it's three
twenty five million dollars direct deposits between now and like
mid December. So I mean they're pushing all their chips
in the middle of the table on this. But I
think you ask people around the league, any person that
watch them, if you're a fan, of the Packers, You go, yeah,
I get it, I would do it. Where the opposite
(18:32):
reaction of Tua like, did you need to do this?
That's that's my question? Did you need to do this?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
They are NBA. You know when NBA team just max
out guys like you're a forty win team, you have
to pay this guy to two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You don't.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
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Speaker 1 (19:25):
To draft them.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
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Speaker 2 (19:36):
I don't know why I'm so interested in this, but
I am. This is my This is kind of my thing.
I talked to Dave Wants then about this, So this
is not an opinion by me. This is the truth.
When when Russell Wilson gets married, he doesn't have ten
players at the wedding with Ciarra. He's never been wildly
popular inside of his locker rooms, and he's been good.
(19:57):
It's like generally good looking, rich guy, beautiful wife. You'd
be just by you know, just the way the world works,
you'd be kind of popular.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
He's not.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
We've seen players in Denver, we've seen players in Seattle,
coaches take shots at Russell. I like him, but he
comes off to a lot of people as inauthentic. So
and I don't think he's changed. In fact, he's befriended.
I've been told Mike Tomlin more than any teammate like
he's because Tomlin, by the way, is like Russell, wealthy,
you know, worth seventy five to one hundred million dollars
(20:32):
or more. So he's befriended you know, Tomlin not a teammate.
And then here comes Justin Fields, who to the last
day in Chicago. Despite being the worst fourth quarter quarterback
in like a decade, players loved him. He's young, he's
a nice guy, he's supportive, he's secure in himself. He
just doesn't He's got a Zach Wilson thing. He struggles
(20:52):
post snapped or read a defense. He just struggles with it.
He doesn't identify certain things. Zach and Justin I see
except that. But now Russell's banged up, and Justin's guarantee
as a great practice player. And here's my thing. You
look at that Pittsburgh schedule. There are a lot of
(21:13):
two game losing streaks in it. I mean, if they
don't get that old line right, there's a lot of
two game losing streaks. And you tell me, having worked
for the Eagles, Russell has a two game losing streak,
and like right now, Justin's crushing it at practice. It's
a young roster players like Justin. Like, I think that's
(21:33):
a fascinating potential mess. Do you think they replaced Russ
or do you think he's been guaranteed a starting spot
this year?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I think it's already getting weird. I mean he's already injured.
It's late July, pulled calf. He feels like a weathered
guy that's thirty four to thirty five years old, and
partly is the way he's looked the last couple of years.
I've said forever, if I was a Steeler fan, I
would want no part of Russell Wilson's starting because we
high Arthur Smith, who we've seen resurrect Ryan Tannehill's career.
(22:04):
Now I would say Tanny Hill then a little more accurate.
This guy's a better athlete. Can you get anything out
of this player? The other thing in Pittsburgh, what's that
territory like right by Ohio State. A lot of those
fans watch justin Fields succeed. Remember the game he had
against Clemson the playoff game. I think he threw six touchdowns. Yeah,
there's stuff there. I would just want to see that guy.
(22:24):
When I think the Steelers going back even before I
was born, to throughout my youth to this team. Now,
they just have guys, guys like when you think football
players in the like TJ. Watt feels like everyone likes
Cam Hayward's the man of the year, making Fitzpatrick's like
one of Saban's favorite players, and it doesn't feel like
those guys are going to be into this at all
(22:46):
at all. And the other thing is, let's face it,
Russell's more of a dink and dunk guy now and
they have explosive players on that roster. My guess is
I think we now who knows, We'll see if he
can by the time within a week and are on
if he's back at the starter. It would not shock
me if Justin Fields's starter very early on. I wouldn't
even put week one out of the realm possibility. They're
(23:07):
not invested into this player. I mean, they're in for
a million dollars, so it means you can't get a
player of his status any cheaper.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I love future bets. So two years ago, Minnesota was
at like eight and a half and I just sold
the farm. I said, that is a terrible mistake by Vegas.
They won thirteen. I think last year, I said, do
you realize the Rams were at six and a half
in Vegas? I said, Timeout, they're just an older Chiefs.
Great offensive coach, great quarterback, one great defensive lineman. Outside
(23:41):
of Cooper Cup, we don't know what they are, but
pretty good protection and kind of young on the defensive side.
I said, Now, Mahomes is better than Stafford, I said,
but they kind of line up with Kansas City, a
weaker version. They're winning eight nine games, so the team
this year, Listen, I don't think they're great. Denver's over
(24:02):
unders five and a half left tackle, excellent O line
was rented seventh by PFF. One of their guards is
top four in the league. Excellent offensive coach, two solid
NFL running backs, an elite corner in safety. Linebackers move well,
one good defensive lineman. They drafted an edge rusher that's
a weakness. Mims could be an excellent two. Courtland's sort
(24:25):
of a Week one, but two dependable receivers, service sole
tight ends. If bow Nicks just runs the plays, and
I do think there's a Drew Brees thing here. They
can't go seven and ten?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, to me, that's that'd be a pretty easy overhammer.
There are some I can't they make the playoffs or
whatever with the rookie quarterbacks. It's different. Five five and
a half feels insanely low way looking. I was looking
on our friends at DraftKings I usually don't do over
unders because for me to get the juices flowing, you know,
the numbers got to be like five or ten thousand
(25:01):
dollars and I don't want to just have it sitting there.
But I saw something that I'm like, I'm all in
the Chargers to make the playoffs. Are plus one ten,
So you are You're not even having to pay a
vict You're getting plus one odds on this. This is
the best quarterback he's ever had. They invested in another
offensive lineman, They're gonna be able to run the ball.
(25:22):
We know wherever he's gone. They've been good on defense
wherever they and let's face it, you get to ten
wins with that quarterback, you're probably the seventh seed. I
like them a lot more than the Dolphins this year.
I think that was my favorite. Just long term, I
think the charges are in the playoffs. I mean, Jim
Harbaugh has a long history. The other thing is I've
watched a lot of just Charger content Jim and I
(25:47):
was around him for a couple of years when I
kind of got into radio when he was with the Niners,
and I think early on Stanford s he had this
huge chip on his shoulder. He was just hard to
be around. I think, I don't know if it's the
championship for the last couple years in Michigan, he feels
a lot lighter. I know, you know, the Spano says,
he feels a lot easier to be around. And there's
a looseness like a I don't know if it was insecurity,
(26:10):
but he just tried to beat this ball in the
China shot NonStop and it feels looser. But he clearly
is better at his craft now than he's ever been
in his entire life. And he's been good at it
since he started coaching. How are they not really good?
I actually think if you just go well, I can
see the Chiefs kind of just cruise control. I don't know.
They just won the last two Super Bowls. Is it
out of the wrong possibility they win the division?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Well, they were favored to win gold. But there's been
a lot of storylines with Team USA at the Olympics
in France. Jason Timph hoops tonight. So let's talk Embiid
who you know, when he comes into the league, there
was a sign early first couple of years can't play
it unhealthy. So it's like, uh, oh, biggs get hurt early.
(26:52):
Biggs usually get hurt often, so he's always had an
injury history. But most bigs eventually do right, like almost
all of them, y'aw ming shack just Greg Odin Sam
Booie couldn't get on the floor, Like it's the position.
People probably aren't built to last at seven to two,
you know, or shack size with those feet back. It
wears out, Like I get it, But Embiid presents something
(27:14):
else beyond the injuries, and because he is more dynamic
and more fun to watch than Jokic or a Yiannis,
and there is a shack component with with better ball
handling skills. There is also something that I find my
eyes keep telling me this when I watch the Sixers.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
And the Olympics just heighten this is that they can
keep running coaches through Philly and teammates through Philly. I
mean even Ben Simmons for a while, he wasn't All
Star like his first year right, like Ben did have promise.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
They were good. Is that?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, Embiid really needs to stay closer from the basket,
so coaches kind of pushed a d out for a
couple of years. It was like fashionable and Ady didn't
good shooting from out there. A D said, I want
to go back, and he has been for two years.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
A monster.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I mean, to me, the most underrated player in the
Olympics and the league right now is ad. He is
just turn the sound down watch you can't if he's
on the floor. It's like Lebron, you can't take your
eyes off him. He's dominant. Embiid to me, somebody has
to just acknowledge fella. Get away from the perimeter. He
(28:25):
fashions himself or is told that he is such an
important part sometimes of perimeter basketball. He's big, he's aging,
he's not as quick. I thought he literally got in
the way of this offense. I'd seen it in Philly,
but it was so profound with this team. It bothered me.
I'm screaming at the TV, get him out of the game.
(28:48):
Your thoughts on Embiid and are any of these valid?
That I watch him offensively. I know the numbers probably
say is great, but he can he stops. I just
feel like he can stop offenses too often.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
So it's both. It's the jump shot and it's the
ball movement piece. The jump shot piece. This has been
a consistent story in Embiad's career, especially over the previous
couple of years. This last year he actually shot the
ball okay against the Knicks, But like in the previous
couple of seasons, he would shoot like fifty percent on
these like mid range pull up jump shots in the
regular season, but then he'd get in front of Al
Horford and he couldn't make them like he would he
(29:25):
would struggle to knock him down in the posts. That
was a consistent theme, and be you would get to
the postseason, his jump shot would go away. And one
of the biggest things that he never built out the
way Jokic did is those short range shots, the hooks,
the floaters, all that stuff that like six exactly, and
those are way more dependable in this kind of setting.
The second piece of it is learning how to play
(29:45):
basketball with other people. This is a this is an
epidemic around the league with certain guys, and we see this.
It's kind of like this with Luca a little bit
with more of a perimeter sense, but we see it
with Embiid where it's like, as long as everything is
flowing through him and he's deciding every single possession, he
has this otherworldly value as almost like a force of nature. So,
for instance, if you took Ad or Bam and you
(30:07):
put them on last year's Sixers team with Tyrese Maxi,
they're not as good because you can't just give the
ball to Ad and Bam like every single possession and
ask them to determine outcomes. They're not good enough on
the offensive end of the floor. But when you're actually
playing with people other good basketball players, and this will
be really interesting this year with Paul George now in
the equation when you actually need to keep everybody in
(30:30):
rhythm and there's ball in player movement, and Be for
lack of a better term, sucks at that style of basketball.
He doesn't know how to play quick decision making flowing
from side to side, and especially at the center position
in modern NBA basketball, when you play five out, the
center is the bridge between the two sides of the floor.
(30:51):
He's the guy who has to catch and turn and
go to the other guard and flow on the other side.
So when you're trying to keep Booker and Steph and
Lebron and all these guys in rhythm at the same time,
it's better to have a guy like Ad who his
entire life has been a screen and roll big. He's
going to pitch the ball to the other side, set
a screen, roll hard to the rim, run up and
down the floor, and transition. It's a foot speed thing.
(31:12):
It's a decision making thing. You put him in this
setting and it's just a completely different kind of basketball
than what he was doing for the Sixers last year.
And it's quite frankly, he has years of needing to
learn how to play that style if he's ever gonna
play in more of a five out, read and react
type of system.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Hey, what's up everybody? John middlecoff here for the Three
and Out podcasts. The NFL season is right around the corner.
And if you want some of the best football content
out there, I got you covered training camp, through the preseason,
throughout the entire season. Subscribe and follow the Three and
Out podcast with me John middlecop on Apple, Spotify, or
wherever you listen to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So during copa team a struggled and I not to
make an excuse or defend Greg Berhalt or the coach
at the time, but our style is more European. We
have more players now soccer players in America playing in
Europe and flourishing. So COPA is a smaller, shorter field.
It didn't play to our space, our strength, which is
(32:20):
speed and spacing. So as we've become more skilled and
more European, which is the Goldwyn World Cup, COPA has
become a bad tournament for US, which is a grittier,
lower ranked teams, more physical soccer. Similarly, Steph with FIBA
three point shooting is almost it plays with your head.
It's closer, it's more physical, you don't get the whistle,
(32:44):
more physicality allowed. And as I watch Steph struggle, it's
not like Tatum struggling. It's not a confidence issue. It's
a is it possible that FIBA Olympic basketball isn't really
it's not really built necessarily for Steph all the time.
I mean, Lebron's good everywhere, but as stuff struggles, I'm
how do I reconcile that he's a great shooter. It's
(33:06):
closer he should be shooting the lights out, he's not.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Why so Sudan in particular, and I think their reputation
obviously that them as an organization within FIBA don't have
the reputation of the other great European teams or South
American teams that we faced over the years, Like even
back in the old days when it was like Argentina,
you know that that was or France that was given
his issues, they don't have that history. But I think
South Sudan is the most athletic team in this field
(33:30):
by far, Like they have just an enormous amount of
fast dudes with really long wingspans. They're athletic by NBA standards,
let alone by FEBA standards. And so what if you
remember last year when Golden State needed to get some
big wins down the stretch of the season, the two
teams that were giving them a lot of trouble were
Sacramento and New Orleans, two teams that were really fast
and really long on the perimeter. And that's like kind
(33:52):
of one of those things whereas Steph has aged, he's
become a little bit susceptible to specific types of matchups,
particularly teams that are that are closing those gaps on him.
And then the piece you mentioned about spacing is real,
Like the lack of a defensive three seconds is a
real thing that people aren't factoring in. So I put
it simply, the vast majority of teams, when they're spacing,
(34:12):
will put their big man on the opposite block from
where the ball is, and so with defensive three seconds,
that defender has to step in and out of the
lane on the far end of the court, whereas in
FIBA he can park his ass right underneath the basket
and he doesn't have to move at all whatsoever. And
so this, by the way, is why I'm far more
concerned about teams like Germany and France or even Serbia
(34:36):
against USA than a team like Canada who just doesn't
have the bigs to deal with USA underneath the basket.
Teams that can park big bodies under the rim can
force you to make jump shots. And as soon as
you force a team to make jump shots, they can
go cold, they can have issues, which is what happening
in South Sudan last time. But yeah, as far as
Steph goes like he, I mean, we let's put it.
Let's put it straight up, Colin. He struggled most of
(34:59):
the tail end of the season last year too, so
this is an extension of that. And I'm really hoping
as a basketball fan that this is just a blip
and he's going to figure it out, because I really
want the Warriors to be interesting next year.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know, when you have a bunch of kids. I
have six in my life, the early years can be
frustrating and a lot of work. But what's fascinating about
the early years is kids make giants social and emotional
and physical leaps in nine months. I mean, my son
had a biting stage, he had a coughing stage where
(35:34):
he would make coughing noises, and I always told my wife,
I'm like, it's just just nine year old boys go
through weird, weird you know sizes.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, they just do.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Like And I want to use that as sort of
a pivot to watching young NBA players, is that when
they're eighteen nineteen twenty, the players just come back of
an off and off season and you're like, damn, he
got a joke. So I'm watching Wemby and I feel
like I'm watching a kid grow, Like I'm watching him
in some of these games and I'm like, oh, this
(36:09):
is terrifying for the league. Like he you go to
his first month in the league, and now Jason offensively,
he plays with so much more confidence. Defensively, he's blocking
stuff with his elbow. He is now way more aggressive
and asserting himself. And I'm watching this and I'm like
(36:30):
I said, by the trade deadline, I said this on
our previous podcast, By the trade deadline, he and Ann
will be the faces of the league. I'm not sure
it's going to take that long. Like, Jokich is still
the best player. His ability to not only dominate but
compliment other players and elevate them, it kind of separates
Lebron's magic certain guys. I would say Michael didn't make
(36:52):
everybody better, not every teammate, Lebron Magic, Jokic, Chris Paul,
every teammate's better. You play your best with him, And
now we get Chris Paul with Wemby. But I'm watching
him and maybe it's maybe I don't see him as
much as you do. I'm seeing major jumps from Wemby
even in these Olympics.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
No. Absolutely, they've been running a lot more offense through
him than you would expect. And a big part of
that is France doesn't have an amazing guard corps like
Evan Fournier is their best guard, a guy who couldn't
crack the rotation for the Micks last year, right, So, like,
but what they're doing in a lot of cases is
they're feeding him at the elbow and they're like running
literally ball screens like the way you would typically with
(37:31):
a point guard in a center. They're running with him
and gobaer at the foul line, and they're letting him
determine the outcome of possessions. They're throwing it to him
down on the blocks. He's become a lot quicker at
like reading the floor and making reads then I would
expect a player at his age. And part of this
I think has a lot to do with him playing
professionally as opposed to coming up through the college system,
(37:53):
Like he's just been around a lot of really smart
basketball minds in his development. The big one to me
that stands out is the dude is just a savage
competitor and is not scared of the moment. Like he
was kind of on the back burner for a good
portion of that second half against Japan, and then it
went to ot and he just took over. Immediately was
demanding the ball in the block, got an and one,
(38:14):
he missed a three on the right wing, and then
immediately called for the ball back and knocked one down
at the top of the key. He's got like just
incredible scoring polish all over the floor. He's handling physicality
really really well. Obviously you mentioned the defensive stuff, even
it's hard to even describe. It doesn't even look like
other NBA players that have come before him.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I'm with you.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I think I think we got to think long and
hard about him being a top ten player right now,
right now, and then I think right and I think
by the deadline next year, we could be talking about
a guy who's who's second team All NBA. Like this
is a real, a real potential outcome for him. In
the short term.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
You put a bunch of alphas together, and some alphas
will shrink and some alphas will rise. Lebron is now
the best player on this team. It's like it's now,
it's gone past. But what's interesting is that Nick Wright
said this to me today on the show in FS one.
He said, deep down, Lebron may realize these are the
(39:12):
last games of his career that people are really gonna watch,
like have a huge audience and are gonna matter and listen.
You and I have been critical of the executive wing
of the Lakers, AD and Lebron on any given game
that I've watched Team USA are the two best players
and they're struggling to win a playoff game. It's really frustrating.
(39:34):
There's Jeremy Grant may come to town. He would be
a solid three, a better a four on a really,
really good team. He's probably a four, not a three.
But be that as it may. But I as I
watched Lebron, what it tells me is he's not having
to fight to be the alpha. He is so respected
(39:55):
that other young players are like, hey, big fella, you
run the offense. I mean, I mean like Magic and
Michael when they went together, they were fighting. They Magic
didn't want to give up the baton, Michael grabbed it,
like even Ant. All these guys, it's like, no, no,
this is Lebron's. This is Lebron's world. And I know
(40:17):
you're not surprised by it, but it it does jump
out of the TV, does it not.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
I'm glad everyone's seeing it too. First of all, to
what Nick said, I agree. I think Lebron has always
been very aware of the narrative surrounding him, and I
think that he saw an opportunity here to be like,
if I am the best player on Team USA, it
will resonate with people for a long time. And for
the record, I think Lebron came right out of the
season and started prepping forward. He looks like he's in
(40:43):
great shape, and.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Man, he is flexing every other time down the floor.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
I know, like he's he clearly prepped for this as
though it was an NBA playoff run. Like that is
abundantly clear. And he and he's and he's playing at
that crazy high level. I'm glad you mentioned the Lakers
because like so many people are like, oh, they're they're
a playing team. They're this, they're that, and it's like, guys,
the reason they're a playing team is they don't have
a single player on the roster other than Lebron and
(41:09):
AD who can play both ends of the floor. That's
literally why they've struggled. It is a personnel issue. It
is not a Lebron James and Anthony Davis issue. Those
two pull their weight. They pulled their weight in a
major way last season, and the organization is what let
them down. And so I don't really see it that way.
As far as as far as Lebron with his team
(41:30):
USA context, what's been super fascinating from a basketball perspective
is what you're seeing is what it would look like
to run five out offense with all the ball and
player movements, Steph lying off of screens with the best
playmaker of this era, kind of orchestrating it at the
top of the key. He's not taking a ton of shots.
He's seeing his openings and he's shooting the gap and
(41:50):
he's attacking the basket right, but they're they're ducking under
all those picks at the top of the key. He's
not jacking up threes and hijacking possessions. He's just reading
the floor as Steph is running around and as Devin
Booker's running around and waiting for guys to make mistakes.
One of the most classic decisions that you'll see from
that part of the floor is Steph runs off a
screen and the guy screens for him. If those defenders
(42:11):
make a mistake, that guy can slip it, and Lebron
is just making reads based on what the mistake the
defense has made. And so it's kind of like a
juiced up version of Draymond with the Warriors, but surrounded
by all of these, you know, world class types of players,
and it's been the perfect role for him and then
quite frankly, to your point, and this is where it
gets really scary, Colin. I would argue, KD and Lebron
(42:34):
and Steph have been the only consistent offensive forces on
this team, and we've been disappointed by Jason Tatum. Anthony
Edwards has given us some mixed results. There's been good games,
there's been bad games. I think it's just a bad
look that here in the year twenty twenty four, Steph,
Lebron and KD are playing the way they are and
(42:56):
the younger generation is struggling to keep up. It's like,
thank God for a band being as good as they've been,
because it's just been It's been a disappointing performance from
some of the younger American players.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 2 (02:00):
All right, it is time. This is sort of the
semi official start, John or I may miss one Sunday,
but this is kind of the official start. As we
move into August very quickly, John, former NFL scout three
and out what's going to happen in college football in
the next year. This is really a thing that's happening.
(02:20):
So I've talked to two different athletic directors. Is these
college programs are going to hire general managers because right now,
these guys don't know how to work their cap. So
let's say I'll just take usc they're making somewhere between
thirteen and fifteen million in IL. That's what I've been told.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You're saying, that's their budget to pay, that's.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Their annual budget. They're building new facilities. That money is
always easy to get. Boosters love facilities, they can.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Feel put their name on it.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, right, nil again about thirteen million a year in
that ballpark. They don't know how to spend it. They
don't know. They just don't understand quite they needed general manager.
So I think what's going to happen in college football
in the next eighteen months. A guy like a Chris
Peterson who works at Fox, A guy like a Chris Peter.
(03:08):
You hire Chris Peterson, you give him a good salary,
and see, Chris, you just run the cap. You organizationally
kind of run our personnel. You don't get the heat
of the coach. And I think that guys like Chris
Peterson are going to have schools throw seven figures at
them and say, can you run from a personnel standpoint,
organize our football program because these guys, these schools now
(03:32):
are paying high schoolers, not seniors. They're paying juniors to
announce they're going to the schools. So I think there's
a massive shift going on. UCLA can't compete at all.
Thank god they're moving to the Big Ten because the
home attendants will buoye their you know, their revenue, but
they have a debt service every year. They're they're in
big trouble.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Did you see the highlight of Deshaun Foster talking about that,
which is crazy because he was a high level college player,
good NFL player. It's not like he's never been in
front of the media. He's not some lifetime coach. It
was pretty it felt very UCLA right now and kind
of Mickey Mouse and it's they're going to be terrible.
Jake Rosenberg, who I was dming with this weekend, who
(04:14):
I used to work with with the Eagles, who was
one of how he's right hand men with the Cap,
who worked in finance before he got hired with the Eagles,
left the Eagles and created a company and is now
working with Oklahoma. He's literally signed contracts and worked with
these contracts and his business will only grow exponentially quick
because again, obviously thirteen million is less than two hundred
(04:36):
million NFL salary cap. But it's still These guys aren't
used to and philosophically. You know, Kirby Smart I've heard,
is very uncomfortable getting to a certain number with a
high school kid. Yeah, he will pay his own guy
once he gets established, or pay a transfer portal guy.
But in terms of a high school kid, I mean
Nebraska Dominic Riola, who I think is the dad? I
(04:56):
feel the kid's name. Who's the quarterback? You know, there
are rumors he we got four million dollars and you
fall college recruiting right closer than I do. We have
seen a million number one, number two overall guys, the
guys that turn into Andrew Locke and Trevor Lawrence and
Caleb Williams. But those guys are actually the minority. Yeah,
the majority bounce around, become average, get benched. That's a
(05:18):
very risky proposition. Like you said, you don't have fifty
million to deal with, So if you're gonna allocate several million,
wasn't the thing a couple of years ago with USC
I guess it would have been two years ago when
they had Jordan Adison and Caleb weren't those guys taking
like eighty percent of their nil money to the two players. Yeah,
it's they were worth it. But still, I mean, you
better get it right.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's a much bigger mess than anybody in the sports
media is talking about. It is a shit show. It is.
These schools are paying juniors in high school. Some of
these guys take the money and then they flip their
senior year to the school that comes to like an
Oregon and pays more money. So it's a mess. So
general managers are coming. I think venture capitalists could own
(06:05):
chunks of college football programs. But it is is it's
pro football and the air thing. You know, the other
thing athletic directors are going to have to go through
over the next couple of years. John, All these sports
are driven by football. At basketball makes money for men
and women at a lot of colleges. After that, they
all lose money. So let's save money a lot. I
(06:27):
mean so, but it's hard because if let's say you
have a swimming program or a golf program and it
loses a million a year, but your third biggest booster
in the athletic department supports their kid who's on the
swimming team. So it's very you get you have to
be very judicious with your decisions because a lot of
times the biggest boosters their kids, you know, they got
(06:51):
a scholarship in golf for swimming or water polo or fencing.
It out east hockey and it's like the sport loses
US three million, but the guy gave US eight million.
I think if you really privately asked athletic directors what
they could do, they would all shave off twenty programs,
twenty five programs. You can't make money. And so I've
(07:13):
said years ago you should privatize football. But a lot
of the biggest boosters at these schools are not football boosters.
And so but I'm here to tell you there's guys
out there, the Chris Peterson's Bob Stoops. Those guys. Now
people are going to start calling them and say, do
you want to run the program? You're the GM, here's
(07:36):
a million a year. Just organize this stuff. Run our
cap and or xgms at fifty five who are just
burnout from crazy owners. There's a new industry starting in
college football. General managers are a year away from being
hired everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, that's why you're going to see it this year,
and it's only going to grow the next five years.
Is the wiping out of all the and them colleges.
When it comes to football. I was at the gym
today and this guy who looked like he played football
was decked out in Washington State football gear. Kind of
made me sad, you know, I mean, we grew up
on that program playing in big games. They're going to
(08:13):
turn it in closer to UC Davis in the next
five years than they are back to Washington because the
money the SEC has made. I mean, look at the SEC,
the amount they pay college basketball coaches now, I mean
they're college basketball conference now. I fall college golf because
a lot of the top guys go on to the
PGA Tour. All the college golf programs in the SEC
they flay private because, like you say, they have big boosters,
(08:36):
they have the football money behind it, and the Big
Ten is not going to be far behind as they
start making gobs of cash now that they've gotten Oregon
and USC and it's inevitable. It feels like Notre Dame,
you know, and those programs go and the SEC gets
Florida State and Clemson over the next decade, it's gonna
wipe out the little guy. And I started at Fresno State.
They don't have a snowballs chance in hell to survive.
(08:57):
And it's just it's going to become the NFL light
because I get a lot of questions like why doesn't
the NFL invest in minor league football? So why would they?
College football produces all their talent and they don't have
to spend a penny, so why would they spend any
expense on developing players. Besides, once they have them in
their own building, when college football is doing it for them,
(09:21):
they're spending all them and football, like you said, makes
all the money in college sports. It's it's also the
most expensive program to run. It's why you know where
I grew up in Northern California, Saint Mary's Santa Clara.
When I worked for Pat Hill, he played at Riverside.
Those programs back in the seventies, Pete Carroll played it,
you know, Piscopic School, Pacific. They all cut football after
(09:43):
a while because they couldn't afford it. And that's back,
I mean, they were bare bones. So it just becomes
how does Washington State or Fresno State or New Mexico
whose programs forever, I mean they were playing real football,
how do they survive moving forward? And the answer is
they just don't. That's just the way kind of business works, right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So I'm looking at all these new contracts, and you know,
it really is interesting. I'm totally comfortable with Jordan loves
and some of it's just this because I fashioned myself
as a poor man's scout. He's bigger than Tua, he's
faster than to A, he's got a better arm than
to A, and Green Bay almost always gets offense, right.
(10:22):
I really that's my bias, whereas too a smaller don't
love his arm, not his athletic and Miami screws stuff
up the two two hundred and twelve million dollars. I'm
a little uncomfortable with it. I don't think I would
have gone there. But I think to myself all the
time what Jay Glazer once said, the worst great job
in America is being a football coach. Driving to the
(10:46):
stadium knowing you're going to win six games, and if
two is upright, you have a chance to win eleven.
So I just think I trust the Packers, Jordan's bigger, stronger, faster,
better whip. Where are you on TUA twelve over four years?
Would you have gone there?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And one hundred and seventy million dollars guaranteed? Is insane
to me? I think there's two ways to look at it.
That contract to me is jaw dropping. I think most
people that have watched and play go that's crazy. That's
that's insane because you have no shot to beat any
of the top quarterbacks who are all in your conference.
And we just saw last year you were like, what
(11:25):
were they eight and one or nine and two and
the other Bills were six and six and they still
ended up winning the division. Why because Josh Allen translates
in November, December and January and your guy doesn't. But
there is value in just being relevant and competing to
make the wild card everything. Yes, So why can't we
find some middle ground of like Alex Smith never made
(11:45):
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady money, but like
he was getting Harbaugh and Andy Reid to the playoffs
and there was value in him. And now we've got
to the point of like, well you just gotta make
this much? Why why couldn't you just offer him Daniel
Jones money like ninety million dollars guaranteed. You cut that
guarantee in half. Who are you bidding against the thing
(12:06):
with Dak? You know if he hit the open market,
other people would be interested. The Raiders would take him
into heartbeat like they were. And he's proven like every
single year you can win twelve games. Toua. It still
feels like is he even that good? But but he
clearly you could win with him. You have a good
offensive coordinator. He's a good guy like all the character stuff,
but his physical flaws one, he's a relic. He's a
(12:27):
true pocket quarterback, bad athlete. Relative. And I heard you,
what was your analogy about the furniture with you with
your quarterbacks?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I like, I like my quarterbacks like my furniture, big
and hard to move.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, so the old school quarterbacks. Anyone that's ever met
one of these guys, Carson, Palmer, Eli or Peyton. Did
you see the pictures of Peyton at Team USA practice
standing next to all these guys that are six seven
and six ten. He does not look that much smaller
than any of them. Know, the Mannings are huge. Carson
Palmer is a giant. Philip Versus is huge. Well, that's
(13:01):
how to a place. The problem is he's six feet tall. Yeah,
and he's got a weak arm, so he doesn't translate
to the winter. Well, he plays in the division with
cold weather teams. So I just I get investing in him.
And if you would have said, hey, they signed him
to a three year, one hundred million dollar deal, and
they guaranteed every pennon of like, I kind of get it.
(13:22):
But to pay him enormous money, I think is insane.
I just don't know. Like when it comes to Jordan Love,
if you and I pulled every GM we know and
said who would you take for this next five years,
Jordan Love or to us all take Jordan, it'd be
unanimous and it would be one hundred percent. So Jordan
Love technically signed for less. That's what I just think. Listen,
(13:46):
I don't get it. That's I'm shortened the Dolphins for
the next three or four years. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And here's the other issue. In thirty two years since
Brett fav arrived, it's been thirty two years since he
stepped foot. He was a packer. The packer have the
number one rated offense in the league, second, winning his
team to New England, and have never in thirty two
years that I recall, have a bad offensive line. So
(14:11):
if you look at the ancillary reality of Green Bay,
Jordan Love will get better protection on average and better
coaching on average. So Jordan Love got paid less and
has much better support system. So I mean, Steven Ross
is one of the richer owners, but do you really
trust him. He's always been a distracted owner and Miami
(14:36):
hasn't had a great offensive line since Don Shula. So
my take is, not only don't I Love to a contract,
but let's just be honest. Over five years of it,
he'll have middle of the Paco lines and there's the
possibility that they won't draft terribly well. I mean Green
(14:56):
Bay is I said this the other day, like there's
certain people. Spielberg makes a movie or is involved in something.
If you go to his like movie page, it's almost
always good. He doesn't he has B projects. He doesn't
have any c's like Green Bay. If they had a
bad season, it's because a quarterback got hurt. I mean,
there are B two A minus virtually B plus to
(15:19):
A minus every year in my life So the other
thing I don't like about Tua is Marino had shula.
I don't think Mike McDaniels, I guess the way I
would say it's this. They are about four organizations and
four ownership groups I just trust implicitly, and Miami's not
(15:39):
one of them.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No. I think people often ask like, why have the
Ravens stayed so consistent over now two and a half decades.
They've had the same people there forever. So Eric DeCosta,
who's now in charge, worked for Ozzie Newson for twenty years. Well,
when you look at the Packers, it's kind of similar.
Maybe coaches, you know, they go from McCarthy to the floor,
(16:03):
But Gudakins worked for Ted Thompson, who worked for Ron Wolf.
I mean, the carryover of the philosophical beliefs of the
organization have not changed, the non negotiables of what you
look for in players, the way you develop. Obviously in
Green Bay they love offensive coaches, and I think when
you look at Jordan Love, I don't think they get
(16:24):
enough credit because we just the way our society works,
were always on to the next for when they pulled
the trigger on drafting them. I mean it was pretty ugly.
They got destroyed. You know, Charlie Munger says, if you
can't handle, you know, the fifty percent downturns, you deserve
the mediocre returns. Well, they that was ugly. I mean
it created this weird dynamic with Rogers. It was crazy
(16:45):
even though Rogers member was coming off that kind of
weird season their first year. But when they did it
well three four years later, it's paying off big dividends.
Now they're still risk involved. But there are still some
unknown with this player. He's only had eight good games.
But I don't know if you have watched any of
just I watched a little bit of his press conference
I think yesterday, and I saw a clip today with
(17:05):
the NFL networkers there. Just because he's been the backup,
you haven't really heard. He's pretty impressive, Yes, you just
as a guy. And yes, his maturity. I was like,
oh damn, that's this is this has a Mahomes Josh Allen.
The way he carries himself. And obviously, like you said,
first off, you have to have the physical. Alex Smith
checked every box except weak armed. Yeah, you know, he
(17:27):
had a great arm. He would have been Rogers or something.
You know, and that's what this guy has. He has
these physical characteristics, he has the infrastructure around him, and
then he has the maturity. I I think, you just
I don't know if he's gonna be then Aaron Rodgers
two point zero, But how's he not gonna be pretty
damn good, you know? And that's it's listen my life.
(17:50):
Joe Montana was a little bit before me. I remember
as a kid he was more on the Chiefs than
Steve Young and then Jeff Garcia, who was nowhere near
as good as those two, but he was still damn
good going the I think this guy has a chance
to be like their version of Jeff Garcia, but the
but actually closer to Rogers are fourth, and that's why
I think they are. They feel really good. Now he
(18:11):
got he got seventy five million dollars signing bonus. He
will get seventy five million dollars. I think it's three
twenty five million dollars direct deposits between now and like
mid December. So I mean they're pushing all their chips
in the middle of the table on this. But I
think you ask people around the league, any person that
watch them, if you're a fan, of the Packers, You go, yeah,
I get it, I would do it. Where the opposite
(18:32):
reaction of Tua like, did you need to do this?
That's that's my question? Did you need to do this?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
They are NBA. You know when NBA team just max
out guys like you're a forty win team, you have
to pay this guy to two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You don't.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
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(19:08):
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Speaker 1 (19:25):
To draft them.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
You can see all of this and more at fantasypros
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Speaker 2 (19:36):
I don't know why I'm so interested in this, but
I am. This is my This is kind of my thing.
I talked to Dave Wants then about this, So this
is not an opinion by me. This is the truth.
When when Russell Wilson gets married, he doesn't have ten
players at the wedding with Ciarra. He's never been wildly
popular inside of his locker rooms, and he's been good.
(19:57):
It's like generally good looking, rich guy, beautiful wife. You'd
be just by you know, just the way the world works,
you'd be kind of popular.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
He's not.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
We've seen players in Denver, we've seen players in Seattle,
coaches take shots at Russell. I like him, but he
comes off to a lot of people as inauthentic. So
and I don't think he's changed. In fact, he's befriended.
I've been told Mike Tomlin more than any teammate like
he's because Tomlin, by the way, is like Russell, wealthy,
you know, worth seventy five to one hundred million dollars
(20:32):
or more. So he's befriended you know, Tomlin not a teammate.
And then here comes Justin Fields, who to the last
day in Chicago. Despite being the worst fourth quarter quarterback
in like a decade, players loved him. He's young, he's
a nice guy, he's supportive, he's secure in himself. He
just doesn't He's got a Zach Wilson thing. He struggles
(20:52):
post snapped or read a defense. He just struggles with it.
He doesn't identify certain things. Zach and Justin I see
except that. But now Russell's banged up, and Justin's guarantee
as a great practice player. And here's my thing. You
look at that Pittsburgh schedule. There are a lot of
(21:13):
two game losing streaks in it. I mean, if they
don't get that old line right, there's a lot of
two game losing streaks. And you tell me, having worked
for the Eagles, Russell has a two game losing streak,
and like right now, Justin's crushing it at practice. It's
a young roster players like Justin. Like, I think that's
(21:33):
a fascinating potential mess. Do you think they replaced Russ
or do you think he's been guaranteed a starting spot
this year?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I think it's already getting weird. I mean he's already injured.
It's late July, pulled calf. He feels like a weathered
guy that's thirty four to thirty five years old, and
partly is the way he's looked the last couple of years.
I've said forever, if I was a Steeler fan, I
would want no part of Russell Wilson's starting because we
high Arthur Smith, who we've seen resurrect Ryan Tannehill's career.
(22:04):
Now I would say Tanny Hill then a little more accurate.
This guy's a better athlete. Can you get anything out
of this player? The other thing in Pittsburgh, what's that
territory like right by Ohio State. A lot of those
fans watch justin Fields succeed. Remember the game he had
against Clemson the playoff game. I think he threw six touchdowns. Yeah,
there's stuff there. I would just want to see that guy.
(22:24):
When I think the Steelers going back even before I
was born, to throughout my youth to this team. Now,
they just have guys, guys like when you think football
players in the like TJ. Watt feels like everyone likes
Cam Hayward's the man of the year, making Fitzpatrick's like
one of Saban's favorite players, and it doesn't feel like
those guys are going to be into this at all
(22:46):
at all. And the other thing is, let's face it,
Russell's more of a dink and dunk guy now and
they have explosive players on that roster. My guess is
I think we now who knows, We'll see if he
can by the time within a week and are on
if he's back at the starter. It would not shock
me if Justin Fields's starter very early on. I wouldn't
even put week one out of the realm possibility. They're
(23:07):
not invested into this player. I mean, they're in for
a million dollars, so it means you can't get a
player of his status any cheaper.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I love future bets. So two years ago, Minnesota was
at like eight and a half and I just sold
the farm. I said, that is a terrible mistake by Vegas.
They won thirteen. I think last year, I said, do
you realize the Rams were at six and a half
in Vegas? I said, Timeout, they're just an older Chiefs.
Great offensive coach, great quarterback, one great defensive lineman. Outside
(23:41):
of Cooper Cup, we don't know what they are, but
pretty good protection and kind of young on the defensive side.
I said, Now, Mahomes is better than Stafford, I said,
but they kind of line up with Kansas City, a
weaker version. They're winning eight nine games, so the team
this year, Listen, I don't think they're great. Denver's over
(24:02):
unders five and a half left tackle, excellent O line
was rented seventh by PFF. One of their guards is
top four in the league. Excellent offensive coach, two solid
NFL running backs, an elite corner in safety. Linebackers move well,
one good defensive lineman. They drafted an edge rusher that's
a weakness. Mims could be an excellent two. Courtland's sort
(24:25):
of a Week one, but two dependable receivers, service sole
tight ends. If bow Nicks just runs the plays, and
I do think there's a Drew Brees thing here. They
can't go seven and ten?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, to me, that's that'd be a pretty easy overhammer.
There are some I can't they make the playoffs or
whatever with the rookie quarterbacks. It's different. Five five and
a half feels insanely low way looking. I was looking
on our friends at DraftKings I usually don't do over
unders because for me to get the juices flowing, you know,
the numbers got to be like five or ten thousand
(25:01):
dollars and I don't want to just have it sitting there.
But I saw something that I'm like, I'm all in
the Chargers to make the playoffs. Are plus one ten,
So you are You're not even having to pay a
vict You're getting plus one odds on this. This is
the best quarterback he's ever had. They invested in another
offensive lineman, They're gonna be able to run the ball.
(25:22):
We know wherever he's gone. They've been good on defense
wherever they and let's face it, you get to ten
wins with that quarterback, you're probably the seventh seed. I
like them a lot more than the Dolphins this year.
I think that was my favorite. Just long term, I
think the charges are in the playoffs. I mean, Jim
Harbaugh has a long history. The other thing is I've
watched a lot of just Charger content Jim and I
(25:47):
was around him for a couple of years when I
kind of got into radio when he was with the Niners,
and I think early on Stanford s he had this
huge chip on his shoulder. He was just hard to
be around. I think, I don't know if it's the
championship for the last couple years in Michigan, he feels
a lot lighter. I know, you know, the Spano says,
he feels a lot easier to be around. And there's
a looseness like a I don't know if it was insecurity,
(26:10):
but he just tried to beat this ball in the
China shot NonStop and it feels looser. But he clearly
is better at his craft now than he's ever been
in his entire life. And he's been good at it
since he started coaching. How are they not really good?
I actually think if you just go well, I can
see the Chiefs kind of just cruise control. I don't know.
They just won the last two Super Bowls. Is it
out of the wrong possibility they win the division?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Well, they were favored to win gold. But there's been
a lot of storylines with Team USA at the Olympics
in France. Jason Timph hoops tonight. So let's talk Embiid
who you know, when he comes into the league, there
was a sign early first couple of years can't play
it unhealthy. So it's like, uh, oh, biggs get hurt early.
(26:52):
Biggs usually get hurt often, so he's always had an
injury history. But most bigs eventually do right, like almost
all of them, y'aw ming shack just Greg Odin Sam
Booie couldn't get on the floor, Like it's the position.
People probably aren't built to last at seven to two,
you know, or shack size with those feet back. It
wears out, Like I get it, But Embiid presents something
(27:14):
else beyond the injuries, and because he is more dynamic
and more fun to watch than Jokic or a Yiannis,
and there is a shack component with with better ball
handling skills. There is also something that I find my
eyes keep telling me this when I watch the Sixers.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
And the Olympics just heighten this is that they can
keep running coaches through Philly and teammates through Philly. I
mean even Ben Simmons for a while, he wasn't All
Star like his first year right, like Ben did have promise.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
They were good. Is that?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, Embiid really needs to stay closer from the basket,
so coaches kind of pushed a d out for a
couple of years. It was like fashionable and Ady didn't
good shooting from out there. A D said, I want
to go back, and he has been for two years.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
A monster.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I mean, to me, the most underrated player in the
Olympics and the league right now is ad. He is
just turn the sound down watch you can't if he's
on the floor. It's like Lebron, you can't take your
eyes off him. He's dominant. Embiid to me, somebody has
to just acknowledge fella. Get away from the perimeter. He
(28:25):
fashions himself or is told that he is such an
important part sometimes of perimeter basketball. He's big, he's aging,
he's not as quick. I thought he literally got in
the way of this offense. I'd seen it in Philly,
but it was so profound with this team. It bothered me.
I'm screaming at the TV, get him out of the game.
(28:48):
Your thoughts on Embiid and are any of these valid?
That I watch him offensively. I know the numbers probably
say is great, but he can he stops. I just
feel like he can stop offenses too often.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
So it's both. It's the jump shot and it's the
ball movement piece. The jump shot piece. This has been
a consistent story in Embiad's career, especially over the previous
couple of years. This last year he actually shot the
ball okay against the Knicks, But like in the previous
couple of seasons, he would shoot like fifty percent on
these like mid range pull up jump shots in the
regular season, but then he'd get in front of Al
Horford and he couldn't make them like he would he
(29:25):
would struggle to knock him down in the posts. That
was a consistent theme, and be you would get to
the postseason, his jump shot would go away. And one
of the biggest things that he never built out the
way Jokic did is those short range shots, the hooks,
the floaters, all that stuff that like six exactly, and
those are way more dependable in this kind of setting.
The second piece of it is learning how to play
(29:45):
basketball with other people. This is a this is an
epidemic around the league with certain guys, and we see this.
It's kind of like this with Luca a little bit
with more of a perimeter sense, but we see it
with Embiid where it's like, as long as everything is
flowing through him and he's deciding every single possession, he
has this otherworldly value as almost like a force of nature. So,
for instance, if you took Ad or Bam and you
(30:07):
put them on last year's Sixers team with Tyrese Maxi,
they're not as good because you can't just give the
ball to Ad and Bam like every single possession and
ask them to determine outcomes. They're not good enough on
the offensive end of the floor. But when you're actually
playing with people other good basketball players, and this will
be really interesting this year with Paul George now in
the equation when you actually need to keep everybody in
(30:30):
rhythm and there's ball in player movement, and Be for
lack of a better term, sucks at that style of basketball.
He doesn't know how to play quick decision making flowing
from side to side, and especially at the center position
in modern NBA basketball, when you play five out, the
center is the bridge between the two sides of the floor.
(30:51):
He's the guy who has to catch and turn and
go to the other guard and flow on the other side.
So when you're trying to keep Booker and Steph and
Lebron and all these guys in rhythm at the same time,
it's better to have a guy like Ad who his
entire life has been a screen and roll big. He's
going to pitch the ball to the other side, set
a screen, roll hard to the rim, run up and
down the floor, and transition. It's a foot speed thing.
(31:12):
It's a decision making thing. You put him in this
setting and it's just a completely different kind of basketball
than what he was doing for the Sixers last year.
And it's quite frankly, he has years of needing to
learn how to play that style if he's ever gonna
play in more of a five out, read and react
type of system.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Hey, what's up everybody? John middlecoff here for the Three
and Out podcasts. The NFL season is right around the corner.
And if you want some of the best football content
out there, I got you covered training camp, through the preseason,
throughout the entire season. Subscribe and follow the Three and
Out podcast with me John middlecop on Apple, Spotify, or
wherever you listen to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So during copa team a struggled and I not to
make an excuse or defend Greg Berhalt or the coach
at the time, but our style is more European. We
have more players now soccer players in America playing in
Europe and flourishing. So COPA is a smaller, shorter field.
It didn't play to our space, our strength, which is
(32:20):
speed and spacing. So as we've become more skilled and
more European, which is the Goldwyn World Cup, COPA has
become a bad tournament for US, which is a grittier,
lower ranked teams, more physical soccer. Similarly, Steph with FIBA
three point shooting is almost it plays with your head.
It's closer, it's more physical, you don't get the whistle,
(32:44):
more physicality allowed. And as I watch Steph struggle, it's
not like Tatum struggling. It's not a confidence issue. It's
a is it possible that FIBA Olympic basketball isn't really
it's not really built necessarily for Steph all the time.
I mean, Lebron's good everywhere, but as stuff struggles, I'm
how do I reconcile that he's a great shooter. It's
(33:06):
closer he should be shooting the lights out, he's not.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Why so Sudan in particular, and I think their reputation
obviously that them as an organization within FIBA don't have
the reputation of the other great European teams or South
American teams that we faced over the years, Like even
back in the old days when it was like Argentina,
you know that that was or France that was given
his issues, they don't have that history. But I think
South Sudan is the most athletic team in this field
(33:30):
by far, Like they have just an enormous amount of
fast dudes with really long wingspans. They're athletic by NBA standards,
let alone by FEBA standards. And so what if you
remember last year when Golden State needed to get some
big wins down the stretch of the season, the two
teams that were giving them a lot of trouble were
Sacramento and New Orleans, two teams that were really fast
and really long on the perimeter. And that's like kind
(33:52):
of one of those things whereas Steph has aged, he's
become a little bit susceptible to specific types of matchups,
particularly teams that are that are closing those gaps on him.
And then the piece you mentioned about spacing is real,
Like the lack of a defensive three seconds is a
real thing that people aren't factoring in. So I put
it simply, the vast majority of teams, when they're spacing,
(34:12):
will put their big man on the opposite block from
where the ball is, and so with defensive three seconds,
that defender has to step in and out of the
lane on the far end of the court, whereas in
FIBA he can park his ass right underneath the basket
and he doesn't have to move at all whatsoever. And
so this, by the way, is why I'm far more
concerned about teams like Germany and France or even Serbia
(34:36):
against USA than a team like Canada who just doesn't
have the bigs to deal with USA underneath the basket.
Teams that can park big bodies under the rim can
force you to make jump shots. And as soon as
you force a team to make jump shots, they can
go cold, they can have issues, which is what happening
in South Sudan last time. But yeah, as far as
Steph goes like he, I mean, we let's put it.
Let's put it straight up, Colin. He struggled most of
(34:59):
the tail end of the season last year too, so
this is an extension of that. And I'm really hoping
as a basketball fan that this is just a blip
and he's going to figure it out, because I really
want the Warriors to be interesting next year.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know, when you have a bunch of kids. I
have six in my life, the early years can be
frustrating and a lot of work. But what's fascinating about
the early years is kids make giants social and emotional
and physical leaps in nine months. I mean, my son
had a biting stage, he had a coughing stage where
(35:34):
he would make coughing noises, and I always told my wife,
I'm like, it's just just nine year old boys go
through weird, weird you know sizes.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, they just do.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Like And I want to use that as sort of
a pivot to watching young NBA players, is that when
they're eighteen nineteen twenty, the players just come back of
an off and off season and you're like, damn, he
got a joke. So I'm watching Wemby and I feel
like I'm watching a kid grow, Like I'm watching him
in some of these games and I'm like, oh, this
(36:09):
is terrifying for the league. Like he you go to
his first month in the league, and now Jason offensively,
he plays with so much more confidence. Defensively, he's blocking
stuff with his elbow. He is now way more aggressive
and asserting himself. And I'm watching this and I'm like
(36:30):
I said, by the trade deadline, I said this on
our previous podcast, By the trade deadline, he and Ann
will be the faces of the league. I'm not sure
it's going to take that long. Like, Jokich is still
the best player. His ability to not only dominate but
compliment other players and elevate them, it kind of separates
Lebron's magic certain guys. I would say Michael didn't make
(36:52):
everybody better, not every teammate, Lebron Magic, Jokic, Chris Paul,
every teammate's better. You play your best with him, And
now we get Chris Paul with Wemby. But I'm watching
him and maybe it's maybe I don't see him as
much as you do. I'm seeing major jumps from Wemby
even in these Olympics.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
No. Absolutely, they've been running a lot more offense through
him than you would expect. And a big part of
that is France doesn't have an amazing guard corps like
Evan Fournier is their best guard, a guy who couldn't
crack the rotation for the Micks last year, right, So, like,
but what they're doing in a lot of cases is
they're feeding him at the elbow and they're like running
literally ball screens like the way you would typically with
(37:31):
a point guard in a center. They're running with him
and gobaer at the foul line, and they're letting him
determine the outcome of possessions. They're throwing it to him
down on the blocks. He's become a lot quicker at
like reading the floor and making reads then I would
expect a player at his age. And part of this
I think has a lot to do with him playing
professionally as opposed to coming up through the college system,
(37:53):
Like he's just been around a lot of really smart
basketball minds in his development. The big one to me
that stands out is the dude is just a savage
competitor and is not scared of the moment. Like he
was kind of on the back burner for a good
portion of that second half against Japan, and then it
went to ot and he just took over. Immediately was
demanding the ball in the block, got an and one,
(38:14):
he missed a three on the right wing, and then
immediately called for the ball back and knocked one down
at the top of the key. He's got like just
incredible scoring polish all over the floor. He's handling physicality
really really well. Obviously you mentioned the defensive stuff, even
it's hard to even describe. It doesn't even look like
other NBA players that have come before him.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I'm with you.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I think I think we got to think long and
hard about him being a top ten player right now,
right now, and then I think right and I think
by the deadline next year, we could be talking about
a guy who's who's second team All NBA. Like this
is a real, a real potential outcome for him. In
the short term.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
You put a bunch of alphas together, and some alphas
will shrink and some alphas will rise. Lebron is now
the best player on this team. It's like it's now,
it's gone past. But what's interesting is that Nick Wright
said this to me today on the show in FS one.
He said, deep down, Lebron may realize these are the
(39:12):
last games of his career that people are really gonna watch,
like have a huge audience and are gonna matter and listen.
You and I have been critical of the executive wing
of the Lakers, AD and Lebron on any given game
that I've watched Team USA are the two best players
and they're struggling to win a playoff game. It's really frustrating.
(39:34):
There's Jeremy Grant may come to town. He would be
a solid three, a better a four on a really,
really good team. He's probably a four, not a three.
But be that as it may. But I as I
watched Lebron, what it tells me is he's not having
to fight to be the alpha. He is so respected
(39:55):
that other young players are like, hey, big fella, you
run the offense. I mean, I mean like Magic and
Michael when they went together, they were fighting. They Magic
didn't want to give up the baton, Michael grabbed it,
like even Ant. All these guys, it's like, no, no,
this is Lebron's. This is Lebron's world. And I know
(40:17):
you're not surprised by it, but it it does jump
out of the TV, does it not.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
I'm glad everyone's seeing it too. First of all, to
what Nick said, I agree. I think Lebron has always
been very aware of the narrative surrounding him, and I
think that he saw an opportunity here to be like,
if I am the best player on Team USA, it
will resonate with people for a long time. And for
the record, I think Lebron came right out of the
season and started prepping forward. He looks like he's in
(40:43):
great shape, and.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Man, he is flexing every other time down the floor.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
I know, like he's he clearly prepped for this as
though it was an NBA playoff run. Like that is
abundantly clear. And he and he's and he's playing at
that crazy high level. I'm glad you mentioned the Lakers
because like so many people are like, oh, they're they're
a playing team. They're this, they're that, and it's like, guys,
the reason they're a playing team is they don't have
a single player on the roster other than Lebron and
(41:09):
AD who can play both ends of the floor. That's
literally why they've struggled. It is a personnel issue. It
is not a Lebron James and Anthony Davis issue. Those
two pull their weight. They pulled their weight in a
major way last season, and the organization is what let
them down. And so I don't really see it that way.
As far as as far as Lebron with his team
(41:30):
USA context, what's been super fascinating from a basketball perspective
is what you're seeing is what it would look like
to run five out offense with all the ball and
player movements, Steph lying off of screens with the best
playmaker of this era, kind of orchestrating it at the
top of the key. He's not taking a ton of shots.
He's seeing his openings and he's shooting the gap and
(41:50):
he's attacking the basket right, but they're they're ducking under
all those picks at the top of the key. He's
not jacking up threes and hijacking possessions. He's just reading
the floor as Steph is running around and as Devin
Booker's running around and waiting for guys to make mistakes.
One of the most classic decisions that you'll see from
that part of the floor is Steph runs off a
screen and the guy screens for him. If those defenders
(42:11):
make a mistake, that guy can slip it, and Lebron
is just making reads based on what the mistake the
defense has made. And so it's kind of like a
juiced up version of Draymond with the Warriors, but surrounded
by all of these, you know, world class types of players,
and it's been the perfect role for him and then
quite frankly, to your point, and this is where it
gets really scary, Colin. I would argue, KD and Lebron
(42:34):
and Steph have been the only consistent offensive forces on
this team, and we've been disappointed by Jason Tatum. Anthony
Edwards has given us some mixed results. There's been good games,
there's been bad games. I think it's just a bad
look that here in the year twenty twenty four, Steph,
Lebron and KD are playing the way they are and
(42:56):
the younger generation is struggling to keep up. It's like,
thank God for a band being as good as they've been,
because it's just been It's been a disappointing performance from
some of the younger American players.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review
Host
Colin Cowherd
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