April 28, 2023 • 35 mins
First, (3:00) Colin explains how the Packers first post-Aaron Rodgers draft followed a familiar pattern from the Rodgers era, why taking personnel decisions out of Pete Carroll’s hands continues to pay off for the Seahawks, and why NFL front offices passed on Kentucky QB Will Levis in the first.
Then, Colin and 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff give their instant reaction to a surprising 1st Round of the NFL Draft, including the Eagles the consensus #1 rated prospect in Georgia DL Jalen Carter, if the Texans should have taken Ohio State QB C.J. Stroud with the 2nd overall pick, the message the Bears sent to Justin Fields by taking Tennessee OT Darnell Wright, why the Seahawks look to be putting together another stellar class, if the Lions should be considered the NFC North favorite, why Will Levis went undrafted, and what picks they have their eye on in Round 2.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Hi, everybody, welcome in. John Middlekoff is going
to stop mind about eight to ten minutes we're going
to do. He's got some great insight on the Philadelphia
Eagles getting Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter, so they load
(00:25):
up on the defensive front after having some free agent losses,
and the theory behind why the Eagles draft who they
do a couple of takeaways for me. In the first round.
The Packers continue over the last twenty years twenty five
years with Farv and Aaron Rodgers to have great offenses,
but they don't draft offense in the first round. They
have such confidence in their quarterback play, their offensive coaching,
(00:49):
and they're drafting and developing that they draft offensive players
in later rounds. So they go get the Iowa rush
end Lucas van Ness. Even though people speculated they needed
a wide run receiver, they certainly could have gotten the
Ohio state wide receiver Jackson Smith Nijigba. They passed. He
would have been a great get. Seattle got him later.
(01:10):
So teams tend to do what they do. And John
Middlkoff will talk a lot about why the Eagles draft
the way they do. But the Packers go in the
first round. I mean, look at green Bay. They've had
offensive coaches, star quarterbacks, excellent offensive lines for most of
the last twenty five years. It's what they do. They
do offense really well. The Patriots they do the secondary
(01:32):
and linebackers very very well. What does Belichick get a corner?
Oregon drops to him. So people go back to what
they do well. And my takeaway on green Bay it's
a deep tight end draft. The tight ends did not
get gobbled up in the first round. So they're going
to go get a tight end and a wide receiver.
(01:53):
They have two picks in the second round. So green
Bay does what they often do. They needed an edge rusher.
They get a big ten kid. It's in their geographical footprint.
That's what the Packers do.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You know, I'm a Northwest kid, right. I thought Seattle
did really, really well. First of all, Devon Witherspoon. Many
believed he was the best corner in the draft. Now,
Seattle nailed their draft last year. They got a starting
corner in the fifth and the sixth, but very much
in the building, it was understood Seattle wanted to get
another wide receiver and they wanted to get another corner
(02:27):
and another edge rusher well by getting Witherspoon with their
first pick and then going get the wide receiver, the
dynamic receiver that can play slotter or outside with their
second pick, Seattle has two seconds, a third, two fourths,
a fifth, to sixth to seventh. They already have answered
two of the three or four questions in the first round.
I suspect they'll go interior, offensive line, and edge with
(02:52):
their two second round picks. But I thought Seattle, if
you go back to last year's first six picks and
this shear's first two picks, the Seahawks I think are
now relying more on their GM and their scouting department.
I did feel that Pete Carroll had a little bit
too much say for years in their picks. I don't
like my coaches having a huge saying picks. It's hard
(03:14):
enough to be a great coach. Andy Reid stays away
from it. Sean Payton largely stayed away from it. You
let a really smart GM do the work. I think
Seattle lean's now back into their scouting department, John Snyder,
and they have had great picks. I banged on the
Seahawks for years with their picks. I think they nailed
their first two picks. The other story, obviously, is Will
(03:38):
Levis not getting picked. I did a mock draft a
couple days ago on Fox Sports One. I did not
have Will Levis getting picked. I think two things. He
tests very well. He's a smart kid, but throws a
ton of interceptions. And both the executives in the league
I talked to that didn't like him said the same thing.
He's falling in love with his arm. The gun show
(03:59):
at the combine, lin, the tight T shirts, the bathroom selfie.
A kid that's smart should make much better decisions in
the pocket when he has time. He throws into traffic.
He's got a little bit of a weird delivery, the
position of the football. But I think the senses with
Will Levis is Will Levis likes Will Levis. He loves
(04:20):
his arm. He's undisciplined, he makes bad decisions. And it's
a pretty bad sign when teams that need a quarterback
have offensive coaches and they're not interested. I talked to
one NFO coach on a team that was in the
group of four or five teams that needed a quarterback,
and kind of the takeaway was you can clean him up,
(04:41):
but there's some things you may never get to stay out, like,
you can't clean everything up. And I think when you
had Bryce Young, he was easily the best quarterback. C J.
Stroud was arguably the most accurate quarterback. Anthony Richardson is
the most dynamic athletic quarterback and a really humble kid.
And Will Levis came off as a little cocky, in
(05:04):
love with his arm, in love with his body, and
you'll pay the price for that. You will pay the
price for that. I'm surprised he didn't get drafted. I
think he's a better prospect, probably than Henden Hooker. You know,
the Tennessee offense scares people. It's a really collegiate offense.
It doesn't ask you to do things. Greg Gosell talked
about this on my show yesterday Thursday. The Tennessee offense
(05:27):
is really a college offense. And so the feeling is
Hooker's already old to begin with. It would probably take
him a year of development to start in the NFL.
He's going to go obviously in the second round. Will
Levis will too. But listen, there's a lot of teams
at the top of that second that need receivers and
tight ends and do not need quarterbacks, so will Levis
(05:50):
may fall even further. You know, I feel bad anytime
I sit and watch a kid sit in a green
room and not get picked. But by the time your
season ends to the draft weekend, you can absolutely elevate yourself,
not just by a PRODA and a combine. I don't
think will Levis did himself any favors with the bathroom selfie.
(06:15):
Let me ask yourself this, every time you see a
guy in a bathroom selfie, do you not think the
same thing? Really bro that that's your picture kind of
lacks self awareness. If you're a franchise quarterback, you gotta
know better. You gotta do better. The NBA playoffs are
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let's bring on John Middlecoff. You know him, you love him.
He's part of the ball Podcasting digital network. We love
having him. Former NFL scout. Okay, let's start. I thought.
The first thing that jumped out to me is good
(08:09):
teams and good gms get value. The Belichick gets Christian
Gonzales right middle of the first a very good corner,
and the Eagles got, to me the best player I
watched in college football at the number nine pick. They
moved up a spot. I mean to me, Philadelphia again.
They've got the culture, they think they have, the coach,
(08:30):
you know, Fletcher cox Age. I thought, Philadelphia got the
best player, you know the organization, Well, what were your
thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, I think, first and foremost, if you remember, several
years ago, they drafted Jalen Rager instead of Justin Jefferson,
and it really kind of bit him in the ass, right,
I mean, Justin Jefferson went on to be one of
the best players in the league and Jalen Rager's not
even on their team. I think, I mean, I know
that they kind of got together as an organization and said,
why are we out thinking the room here? Take the
(08:56):
best players from the best programs. What have they done
the last couple of years? DeVante Smith Alabama Heisman Trophy,
Jordan Davis starting defensive tackle at Georgia National Championship, trade
for aj Brown, an SEC blue chip guy who's dominating
Nakobe Dean, they draft, you know, from Georgia in the
second round. They also, I think one thing, Howie and
(09:18):
obviously Jeffrey Lewie they know well from the Andy years
and they've carried it over into their good teams. With
Doug Peterson in this last couple of years. His culture
is really big and when you have these veteran guys
like why do you resign. Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham,
they're done because they bring a lot to the table.
And then when you get a situation like this, what's
this guy going to do? I act like an idiot
around those two guys. I mean, Brandon Graham stripped Tom
(09:40):
Brady to win a Super Bowl. He's been in the
league for twelve thirteen years. Fletcher Cox, you know, is
an all time great Eagle and while he's you know,
on the other side of his career, is just an
SEC guy. The other thing they have now to me,
and in football, it is different than like AAU, right,
if you meet a kid from LA or New York AAU,
they all play together in basketball, they've all played in football.
(10:02):
If I'm from LA, I don't know the guy from
New York or Seattle or Florida. Right. Besides in college
if I play him, Well, the SEC guys all know
each other, right, and they all kind of rolled together. Well,
think about their team, Colin DeVante Smith, Alabama, Nakobe Dean,
Jordan Davis, the New Georgia guys, Fletcher Cox, SEC guy
AJ Brown, SEC guy Jalen Hurts. Well, I think we
(10:24):
think Oklahoma three years Alabama SEC guy, so their core
they all kind of speak the same language in terms
of that Southern football culture. Obviously they all come from
elite program, especially the Baman Georgia guys. It's a risky pick.
I mean, this guy, I think scared a ton of
teams as you could see him going to nine like
that's pretty telling. But I think how he feels very
(10:45):
good about their infrastructure now with their coaches, with their
players to kind of operate a lot like Belichick used
to do for years with Tom and some of their
core guys, where they as it went on, they started
taking some flyers because they felt really good about their
main guys. You can't act like an idiot when that
when the top guys you look up to and are
kind of like, you know, you have a lot in
(11:07):
common with. So I think that was I mean an
easy pick for that obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, and by the way, for those of you uninitiated,
John's a former scout. This is the kind of insight
you get, which I've never heard anybody talk about that,
but I think you're right on the money. And the
other thing that jumped out to me is I've said
with c. J. Stroud, he is a first round quarterback.
I don't see a ton of juice. He's accurate. Jared
Goff is a very accurate comp I think he's a
(11:32):
little better runner than Jared. But you know, there was
a lot of speculation. I kind of fell for it
that they would get Jalen Carter or Will Anderson. What
did you make of the Texans getting Stroud? What did
it tell you?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
One thing? I was stunned in the sense that they
just got a brand new coach who's young. And I'm
a big believer in Demiko. When I was with the Eagles,
we traded for him as a player because of his
character and I've you know, lived in the bear for
a long time, went to the practices. Kyle Shanahan swears
by the I think he's going to be a stud
head coach. I mean, he's just he's been good at
everything he's ever done in his entire life. I don't
(12:05):
know why it's gonna stop little. I mean, obviously I
understand why the GM in the front office and the
owner and needs to get a quarterback. You look at there,
But if you're Demiko, why rush into this? You know,
I think a lot of people in the NFL he
throws a beautiful ball. But when you look at Ohio
State these last couple of years, a lot like Tua
when he was Alabama. I mean, Colin, you're talking about
(12:26):
three or four top fifteen wide receivers on their team,
not like a couple guys that play in the NFL. Right,
these are top fifteen picks. Well technically in JIGBA twenty,
but you know what I mean. I mean this is
and the speed difference in the Big ten relative to
even two in the SEC that the advantage Ohio State has.
I do think that Georgia game though, because the Jared
(12:47):
gofkomp was definitely something that kind of kicks stayed with it.
But that Georgia game, he was run around. He looked
like kind of a different player. Now, I don't know
what your take was, but the take of like when
he was bonded to the test. I'm not a test taker.
I'm a football player. I didn't love that quarterbacks get
held to a higher standard. Man, you know, I mean
you're not playing slot receiver dB, so I mean Peyton Manning,
(13:11):
Tom Brady Lamar, those guys don't. They don't get defensive
over stuff like that. But risky move. I actually thought
they're moved trading back up to get will Anderson, who
I liked a lot. But holy moly, they gave up
a lot to go back from twelve to three. Especially,
But I guess when you're in the court, when you've
drafted the quarterback and they got all these picks coming
(13:31):
from Deshaun Watson, maybe they're not thinking about Caleb Williams
and Drake May anymore obviously.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know, I think it's interesting the Bears picked Darnell right,
so he engulfed the Tennessee tackle engulfed Will Anderson when
they played will Anderson was totally ineffective. And I think
mel Kuiper said it that you could be looking at
the best player on the draft. It's very interesting because
(13:57):
last year the Bears went into the offensive line and
they got a tackle from Southern Utah who started at
left tackle for him. I thought they might go Scarronsky
and go on the inside, But you know these days,
John people look at tackles is you got to play
both left or right. So my takeaway I thought they
would go with a defensive coach. They went and got
(14:19):
a corner in a safety last year, and they really
spent some money on offense in the off season, so
you know, they went and got another tight end with
Cole Kmet. They went and got you know, another receiver,
Dj Moore. So my takeaway was, Wow, they're going to
go on defense with the defensive coach and they go
(14:39):
and get Darnell right the tackle, and my takeaway is
they're taking away the excuses for Justin Fields. Like the
feeling is now like, hey, man, by the way, Atlanta
is doing this with Bijon Robinson. They're like, Okay, what
they're saying is Desmond offensive coach, top six offensive line,
we got your Drake London, k Pits and Bijon Desmond.
(15:02):
If you can play, this is good enough to move
the sticks. So I kind of, I mean, my takeaway
on the Bears was this tackle is, hey, we're gonna
make sure if Justin Fields doesn't make it, it's not
because we didn't help him. I am I reaching on that.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I actually thought coming into the draft that the Bears
were a sneaky destination for Bjon Robinson because the same mindset, right,
we got you Dj Moore, we got you Mooney, we
got you Commet, we got you now Bjon Robinson. Let's
see what you got. Yeah, same thing. The Bejon two Atlanta,
and I'm with you. I think Chicago is definitely just
(15:36):
going to be pretty open minded this year. If it
doesn't work, they'll pivot next year. He's out there, guy,
and if it does, let's keep on rocking and rolling.
And they got a bunch of picks right coming from Carolina,
the Bejon Atlanta. I remember watching Atlanta last year play
the Niners before Jimmy got hurt, and they kicked their
ass and they ran the ball right down their throat.
They had multiple running backs, multiple offensive weapons. Bijon Robinson.
(15:58):
You can't talk to anyone in the NFL that's like this.
You could argue if if he was a defensive end
or a right tackle, he would have been the number
one player in the draft.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He's literally I had two GMS tell me he's the
cleanest player in the draft.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah. Character the whole thing. So I'm not against high character,
great players, but that position, when you already got running
backs and your coach became a star by coaching a
second round guy and Derrick Henry, when your defense is hideous,
and like you said, they already have they've invested in
London last year, who was a much better pro than
I envision. I liked him at USC, but he looked
(16:31):
really interesting last year. And obviously Kyle Pitts like they
got some weapons and their guy can scheme the run
game and their O line.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
John pff had it top five.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't quite understand that pick. Now that's been out there.
It wasn't shocking because people are saying, like, keep an
eye on a Landa with John Robinson, and it came true,
unlike some of these other earlier picks, But that one's
a little bit of head scratcher, not because the guy
can't dominate, just because their defense is terrible I think statistically.
I mean, they were as bad as any defense in
the league in a lot of different categories.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So one of the things that interesting is that Michael Mayor,
the tight end for Notre Dame Dalton Kincaid, was the
first tight end taken at twenty five. So I was told,
good edge rusher draft, good tight end draft. You know,
Cowboys end up going with Mazzy Smith, a defensive tackle Michigan,
(17:24):
which is which is not a stunner because it's been
a position of need for them. And they have by
getting Gilmour and Trayvon Diggs. They're good at corner. They've
got a great athlete in Micah DeMarcus Lawrence on the edge.
So that pick for the Cowboys didn't bother me. He
was I saw him on two mock drafts as the
first pick in the second So that didn't bother me
with Dallas because my takeaway is they're just going to
(17:46):
get a tight end later. There's there are good tight
ends in the third, fourth, and fifth round, and.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They clearly got pushed down in this draft, right. I
think a lot of us thought they were going to
go in the top twenty. I also think if you're
the Cowboys, you look at this. I think the NFC
has a clear tier, right. I mean there are three
teams you would rank them, Philly, Niners, Dallas. But Dallas
gave the Niners everything they could handle in that playoff game,
and you go, we know Kyle Shanahan likes to run
the ball, and he'll run it right down our throat,
(18:11):
So we need a big body. And Philly ultimately like
the run game with their quarterback at any moment, and
the New York Giants was sakuon Barkley.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
This is a really yeah. I mean, if you look
at the way to beat Philadelphia that offensive line with Kelsey,
you've got to win the point of attack. I think
that's a great point, is that I think Dallas looked
at this. You're probably right, and they just said, we
got to play Philadelphia twice. We have to figure out
a way. They can't just Kelsey is one of the
(18:39):
top three centers maybe of my lifetime. Yeah, you can't
be totally manipulated at the point of attack. So I
you know, when you were with the Eagles, do you
sometimes look in your division and go, Okay, this is
a left tackle. I mean he's literally engulfing our people.
Do you look at personnel and division?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
One thing? How he did and this was a long
time ago, and I know he still does. This is
now his teams now on that level. But the four
teams that are in the final four, you know, the
two NFC teams and the two AFC teams, he keeps
those rosters in his in his room, and you know
they follow. You can't help it. In the NFL, your
division is just your direct competition. You view it much
(19:17):
to you know, if you're a Dallas Cowboys. You view
the Eagles not as much over the last you know,
twenty years that the football team like you do. You
know the Eagles and the Giants, right if you're the
forty nine or Seattle in the Rams, I mean, you're
just watching everything they do because it just it impacts
you exponentially more because you play them twice every year
no matter what, while all the other divisions rotate. And
(19:38):
speaking of I mean I thought Seattle, you know, I
just think Pete. You know, a lot of people thought
Jalen Carter, he takes some swings. They did not mess
around with that, which I understand everyone I know. And
teams that had no shot of getting this guy. They
loved Witherspoon kind of a throwback to you know some
of those teams they had with Russell Wilson. Those LOV
(19:58):
teams absolutely just m effort stud I mean, big time tackler,
can play inside, outside, you can move them around, can tackle.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And then they got John Seattle's got two two's, a
three and two fours. So of their three needs, one
was lock at DK. They needed another receiver, they needed
they wanted another They got one.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean, he's good, he's awesome when healthy yep.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And then they got a wide receiver and then they
get you know, Jackson Smith Jigba. So they end up
getting two of their three needs. I think they need
a guard now and then a later an edge rusher.
But I mean, if you look at last year's pick
on ESPN, they put up the last six or seven
(20:45):
like great young players. I mean they are. They had
a run John where I think Pete Carroll and Paul
Allen passed. They had a run where Pete had too
much control in the draft, and it feels like they've
given it back to John Snyder and the scouting department.
They have not missed on a pick.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Were with tackles, They got Kenneth Walker. I mean, they
got a good young nucleus. I mean they won nine
games where I'm guilty. I thought they were going to
be terrible and they were really good. And I think
they're going to be even better. I mean because they
got so many young pieces that they're building around.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Okay, so I think we both agree Seattle did well.
So Jamiir Gibbs the running back. So people are going
to bang on Detroit's picks now. Gibbs is a very
dynamic and again Alabama Big school. You see them run
over guys and run past guys in the SEC. So,
you know, my takeaway on Detroit is the last two
(21:40):
drafts with his front office, John, I've really liked them,
and so part of me thinks to myself with Swift
and Gibbs as they're trying to take they love their
own line. Okay, they solved their corner issue a little bit, right,
are they basically saying is we want to take the
pressure off Jared goff or? I mean I was watching
(22:04):
them high five in the room like this was not
a pick they had trepidation over. These guys were high fiven.
What did it say to get a running back when
they have Swift? Because their O line can control I
think can control a lot of the defensive fronts in
that division. Is that what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think in most drafts, when you see a guy
that you go, you know, I think it's fair to
say going into the any draft, a guy like him
is like an early second, you know, somewhere in like
thirty two to forty pick. This draft was viewed as
pretty terrible, Like the difference between pick eight and twenty five.
You know, you might not be able to tell the difference,
like Ken Kaid going twenty five to the Bills might
(22:43):
be no different than the sixth pick, you know, So
it's just time will tell people were not that cop.
This was not Jamar Chase and the Waddles and the
Pinasoles and the Michael Parsons. That wasn't this draft. So
when you go, well, they got to a super Bowl
with Jared Goff when he had a great running game,
right with Sean McVay with LA and last year Jared
Goff statistically was excellent, Well they had another pick and
(23:05):
they got a linebackers their defense, I mean, I think
Aiden Hutchinson is going to be a really really good player.
To me, he's got some whiffs of Joey Bosa. I mean,
he's got a chance to be a twelve fifteen sack
guy next year immediately. So if their defense is just
incrementally better their offense. I mean, the USC wide receiver
they have as a stud, like you said, their offensive
lines of stud. Their coach, while he's an offensive because
(23:26):
he's a tight end, is really wired more like a
defensive tackle. I mean, he wants to be a tough,
physical guy. I'm with you. If you love this guy,
and I'm going to give them the benefit out because
I watched them last year and they were an expressive operation,
so I think they know the wiring. The other thing
is Dan Campbell came from Sean Payton, you know, over
that five or six year run when he got fired
from Miami and went there became an assistant head coach.
(23:48):
They had really good drafts during that time when the
Saints were really good at the end of the two thousand.
You know the teams right the seventeen eighteen nineteen, So
I think he knows the wiring of the guys. I
remember sometimes the Saints hed be like, well they did that,
and then it would work out right, So I'm with you.
It was a little eye opening because you see the
second running back come off at twelve. But I'm going
(24:09):
to give them the benefit of the doubt because I
know their play style and I know what they want
to do. The other thing is when's the last time
a running back from Alabama beside Trent Richardson hasn't worked
in the NFL. You watch them all over the league.
They're all successful players well, and Jared Goff's history is
when Gurley was healthy, He's been a really good quarterback.
When Jared gets in trouble is third and long. Okay,
(24:32):
So is Detroit saying we love our OC, we just
don't want to get in third and long. You and
I know I saw Goff out duel Mahomes when they
had Gurley and naked run. Jared was getting you to
the super Bowl. It's when the O line aged and
they didn't have a consistent run game. Now you' leene
on Jared Goff and it's not pretty right. So I
(24:52):
look at Detroit and I think they love their OC.
They have good young receivers, excellent O line, Swift got
banged up, and maybe they're just saying, listen, we're just
going to do a one to two punch and we're
going to go. And by the way, in that division,
the D line for the Vikings, the D line for
the Packers, the D line for the Bears. Are you
going to pick them to win the division? You pick
Minnesota last year? To me, obviously, injuries can happen, but
(25:13):
Detroit would be my pick as of recording this today
to win in the North.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And again, I think is Detroit looking at that division
and thinking our line is significantly better in those six
games against the d lines in our division. Can we
go five and one in that division?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
For sure? And in a weird way because they haven't
even made them playoffs? Right, But if you assume that
they're going to be in the mix, the three teams
that are at the top of the conference, the Eagles,
the Niners, and Cowboys are all physical teams. So you're
getting this is not a lightweight fight. You're getting in
the ring to fight heavyweights, So you have to be
willing to play like that. And Dan Campbell is now
(25:51):
building a team. Who do they draft their second pick
in the first round a linebacker from Iowa? Right? I
mean they have a type of guy that they're looking
for to build their Honestly, that should translate to playing
the Cowboys the Eagles and just give them a chance.
If not in twenty three, the next couple of years. Obviously,
you know Jared Goff is going to be the guy
we talk about the most, but he's proven if you
(26:12):
can do it around him and their roster.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I liked a lot with the Lions. I have going
on a lot, so I mean the Will Levice situation.
I talked to people that I really trust and their
big concern with them was, listen, the kid is smart.
We know his mom went to an IV league school, Yale.
We know he's a four point student. Why is his
(26:35):
judgment so bad? And what I heard was Jay Cutler
is that Jay Cutler was arrogant and obstinate, and if
Jay had a rope, Jay had an arm, and if
Jay wanted to sling it, he didn't give a shit
what the coach said. And Jay, I'll argue it forever.
(26:56):
Jay had one of the best arms in the league
when he played. He had an absolute host. But Jay
was stubborn, rigid, difficult, and people worried Will Levis with
the selfies the gun show, look at me the combine.
He wore a muscle shirt I had. I had a
head coach and a GM told me they hated that.
(27:17):
I mean, I listen, Brady Quinn works at Fox, and
I like Brady. But that was one of the knocks
I heard is that an he can't be jacked as
a quarterback. You have to be fluid, and you don't
see biceps on Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning. Your take
on Will Levis dropping.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, I mean I think that he was a fascinating
player coming into the season, and then the season was
a disaster, and I had people that really like him.
They aren't necessarily quote unquote decision makers, but are you know,
high in their organization. Said if coming out his junior
season or whatever, two years ago, when Liam Cohen, right,
the Rams guy, was his offensive coordinator, he would have
(27:53):
been a lock top five pick. Then he goes to
Rich Skangarello, who a lot of people are down on
disastrous season, and then, like you said, kind of has
a bad offseason. The lifting things, you're not playing offensive
tackle or lineback, No one cares. It's about pliability. It's
about fluidity. And that's a big knock on his game
is fluidity touch. And we've seen so many guys Brady
(28:16):
Quinn Kaepernick got really big. Whether you can throw at
one hundred and twenty miles an hour, If you can't
throw a strike, who cares? You're not going to make
the big leagues, right, So touch is a big issue
with him. I also think that like Anthony Richardson, who
this raw guy was viewed as very mouldable. One thing
I have heard like when he went and met with people,
(28:37):
they were just like you know what this guy means? Well,
like I would love to be around this guy. There
was a lot of positive vibes around him. Very grateful,
Like Anthony Richardson wrote a Penda letter. He was like
humble and grateful. And it's like, John, you look at
that and you think, Okay, this kid wants to learn. Yeah,
and whether it works out, only time will tell, and
more than the history would show us it probably won't.
(28:58):
But I know that a lot of people were down
on him and during the process came away the opposite,
like I'm rooting for this guy. I think this guy
not crazy to go in the top five is the
ceiling is sky high, and I think will Levis started
getting more negative and negative, not like you said anything malicious, right,
but the buff stuff to the lifting the pictures on
(29:20):
Instagram within the last month, like what are we doing?
You know, it's just I mean, he didn't I mean
he tumbled. I mean this was a guy that I
think after last season twenty one, when Kentucky had the
really good year, I don't see how he wouldn't have
been a top five pick, not with those measurables, right,
But then yeah, I mean I clearly the league is
(29:42):
very I mean, this is a quarterback star of the Leak.
For no one to touch him, right, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, So we get through the first round. So I
was told by the people I trust that the people
felt there was about twelve Usually there's eighteen, about twelve
first round players, and then from about thirteen until about
the twelfth pick in the second round, they're all about
the same. So Will Levis is probably going to go
(30:10):
at my guest top of the second. You know, Rams
have a lot of picks, a second, two thirds, three fifths,
three six. When I looked at the Rams, I thought
to myself, if you're the Rams and you have you
got to get an edge. You got to get another receiver.
I think they want to back interior, offensive lineman, corner,
(30:30):
tight end. And you had eleven picks no first would
you be willing to forego if you're less sneed four
or five of those picks to just go get a
second second, have two thirds, get rid of your seventh,
your sixth, and two of your fifths, and just say
we need about six got with Stafford and Cooper cup
coming back wildly productive guys, We're going to go and
(30:54):
get about six players. Do you think teams would consider
doing that, giving up like they have two sevens, three six,
three fives?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What for them specifically? I talk to a buddy. I
think most people acknowledge the Arizona Cardinals right now are
viewed as the worst team in the league right just
roster wise, just a disaster. And a buddy of mine
was like, in the league on a really good team
was going, well, look at the Rams. I mean their
their roster is very questionable at best for a team
that tries to win it every year and be in
(31:24):
the mix. So yeah, I mean they never live in
the short term now. The only thing would be and
they're not really built like this, assuming Stafford is healthy,
would they want to just take it on the chin
and go for one of the guys next year? And
you'd go, well, based on mcveigh's history, could he take
a season at two or three wins? I would highly
doubt that. So yeah, I mean I would be shocked
(31:46):
if they don't get super aggressive tomorrow, you know, in
the second and third round, because they are not you know,
a lot of businesses. I think not just about twenty three,
but about twenty five, twenty six in any industry that
has not been their history, and especially with Sean Right,
who at any moment, you know, in any given year
for them could get fifteen million dollars to go call games.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So we are doing this at the very tail end
of the first So not only did the Eagles get
Jalen Carter, they got Nolan Smith as an edge with
the thirtieth pick.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
They go blue chip guys from the best conference. That's
an edict in the organization and it pops on television
right when you watch them play. The forty nine Ers
don't necessarily have that, like you don't need to be
from the SEC, but they have a clear you're playing personality.
If you don't play like a certain personality, they're not
(32:37):
messing with you. They specific guy.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean the Niners really draft physical players. You
become what you draft, right Like It's it's that you know,
you become what you eat, what you watch, what you draft.
Like if you look at the if you look at
the Eagles and the Niners, they are just wildly physical teams.
It's one of you know, Hendon Hooker or Will level
Us who goes first.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I think Will Levis still goes first, just based on
two years ago. You know, it's weird in these draft
rooms you still talk about what they were in high school,
what they were maybe early on in their career if
it turned, you know, turned a negative corner and the
guy struggled. So Hennon Hooker had one year. He's also
the same age as Sam Darnold. Sam Donald just played
(33:22):
on his fifth year option last year, so I mean,
and he's got a torn ACL. I think, you know,
if you were going to be in the in the
business of taking a question to me, it's a no brainer.
You would take Will the other thing. Will Levis has
played now one year, he struggled the other year in
NFL offense for two years. The Tennessee offense, while wildly
successful in college, is not viewed by both and most
(33:45):
NFL people, as you know, transferable immediately to right to
the field. So I back to the Eagles, I think
they have really just stayed so true to this. The
SEC guys, the big picture guys, think about the trade,
how they ended up here. Two years ago. They traded
Carson Wentz to the Colts, which ended up being a
(34:06):
first round so they had all those first round picks
and then they didn't need them. All, so they traded
to the Saints, who were desperate to live in the moment,
and that led them to get the Saints pick this year,
which led them to Jalen Carter, and then just their
own pick led them to Nolan Smith, who, let's face it,
the only reason he's there that late is he was
banged up this season. I mean, he's a in a
draft like this year, a guy like that healthy at
(34:28):
that program, with those measurables and that speed, No way
he's there, you know. I guess technically it's thirty one,
but because Miami gets their pick, take and it's the
thirtieth pick. Yeah, the Eagles just there's a reason when
you watch him play, their speed, their talent at every position.
I mean, they're not taking guys from from random schools anymore.
I mean, look at look at their top talent, look
(34:49):
at look at the programs they play in.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
All right, John Middlecoff three and Out a volume podcast,
does his golf as well. A good thirty minutes with John.
We appreciate everybody stopping by. John. We will talk soon.
Thanks Buddy the volume. Make sure to check out the
(35:23):
Draymon Green Show. I brought Draymond Green into the Volume
because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique
perspective understands behind the rope also chops up with guests
like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download
The Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcasts, only
on the Volume podcast network
The volume. Hi, everybody, welcome in. John Middlekoff is going
to stop mind about eight to ten minutes we're going
to do. He's got some great insight on the Philadelphia
Eagles getting Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter, so they load
(00:25):
up on the defensive front after having some free agent losses,
and the theory behind why the Eagles draft who they
do a couple of takeaways for me. In the first round.
The Packers continue over the last twenty years twenty five
years with Farv and Aaron Rodgers to have great offenses,
but they don't draft offense in the first round. They
have such confidence in their quarterback play, their offensive coaching,
(00:49):
and they're drafting and developing that they draft offensive players
in later rounds. So they go get the Iowa rush
end Lucas van Ness. Even though people speculated they needed
a wide run receiver, they certainly could have gotten the
Ohio state wide receiver Jackson Smith Nijigba. They passed. He
would have been a great get. Seattle got him later.
(01:10):
So teams tend to do what they do. And John
Middlkoff will talk a lot about why the Eagles draft
the way they do. But the Packers go in the
first round. I mean, look at green Bay. They've had
offensive coaches, star quarterbacks, excellent offensive lines for most of
the last twenty five years. It's what they do. They
do offense really well. The Patriots they do the secondary
(01:32):
and linebackers very very well. What does Belichick get a corner?
Oregon drops to him. So people go back to what
they do well. And my takeaway on green Bay it's
a deep tight end draft. The tight ends did not
get gobbled up in the first round. So they're going
to go get a tight end and a wide receiver.
(01:53):
They have two picks in the second round. So green
Bay does what they often do. They needed an edge rusher.
They get a big ten kid. It's in their geographical footprint.
That's what the Packers do.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You know, I'm a Northwest kid, right. I thought Seattle
did really, really well. First of all, Devon Witherspoon. Many
believed he was the best corner in the draft. Now,
Seattle nailed their draft last year. They got a starting
corner in the fifth and the sixth, but very much
in the building, it was understood Seattle wanted to get
another wide receiver and they wanted to get another corner
(02:27):
and another edge rusher well by getting Witherspoon with their
first pick and then going get the wide receiver, the
dynamic receiver that can play slotter or outside with their
second pick, Seattle has two seconds, a third, two fourths,
a fifth, to sixth to seventh. They already have answered
two of the three or four questions in the first round.
I suspect they'll go interior, offensive line, and edge with
(02:52):
their two second round picks. But I thought Seattle, if
you go back to last year's first six picks and
this shear's first two picks, the Seahawks I think are
now relying more on their GM and their scouting department.
I did feel that Pete Carroll had a little bit
too much say for years in their picks. I don't
like my coaches having a huge saying picks. It's hard
(03:14):
enough to be a great coach. Andy Reid stays away
from it. Sean Payton largely stayed away from it. You
let a really smart GM do the work. I think
Seattle lean's now back into their scouting department, John Snyder,
and they have had great picks. I banged on the
Seahawks for years with their picks. I think they nailed
their first two picks. The other story, obviously, is Will
(03:38):
Levis not getting picked. I did a mock draft a
couple days ago on Fox Sports One. I did not
have Will Levis getting picked. I think two things. He
tests very well. He's a smart kid, but throws a
ton of interceptions. And both the executives in the league
I talked to that didn't like him said the same thing.
He's falling in love with his arm. The gun show
(03:59):
at the combine, lin, the tight T shirts, the bathroom selfie.
A kid that's smart should make much better decisions in
the pocket when he has time. He throws into traffic.
He's got a little bit of a weird delivery, the
position of the football. But I think the senses with
Will Levis is Will Levis likes Will Levis. He loves
(04:20):
his arm. He's undisciplined, he makes bad decisions. And it's
a pretty bad sign when teams that need a quarterback
have offensive coaches and they're not interested. I talked to
one NFO coach on a team that was in the
group of four or five teams that needed a quarterback,
and kind of the takeaway was you can clean him up,
(04:41):
but there's some things you may never get to stay out, like,
you can't clean everything up. And I think when you
had Bryce Young, he was easily the best quarterback. C J.
Stroud was arguably the most accurate quarterback. Anthony Richardson is
the most dynamic athletic quarterback and a really humble kid.
And Will Levis came off as a little cocky, in
(05:04):
love with his arm, in love with his body, and
you'll pay the price for that. You will pay the
price for that. I'm surprised he didn't get drafted. I
think he's a better prospect, probably than Henden Hooker. You know,
the Tennessee offense scares people. It's a really collegiate offense.
It doesn't ask you to do things. Greg Gosell talked
about this on my show yesterday Thursday. The Tennessee offense
(05:27):
is really a college offense. And so the feeling is
Hooker's already old to begin with. It would probably take
him a year of development to start in the NFL.
He's going to go obviously in the second round. Will
Levis will too. But listen, there's a lot of teams
at the top of that second that need receivers and
tight ends and do not need quarterbacks, so will Levis
(05:50):
may fall even further. You know, I feel bad anytime
I sit and watch a kid sit in a green
room and not get picked. But by the time your
season ends to the draft weekend, you can absolutely elevate yourself,
not just by a PRODA and a combine. I don't
think will Levis did himself any favors with the bathroom selfie.
(06:15):
Let me ask yourself this, every time you see a
guy in a bathroom selfie, do you not think the
same thing? Really bro that that's your picture kind of
lacks self awareness. If you're a franchise quarterback, you gotta
know better. You gotta do better. The NBA playoffs are
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Time app. Last minute ticket deals, lowest prices guaranteed. All right,
let's bring on John Middlecoff. You know him, you love him.
He's part of the ball Podcasting digital network. We love
having him. Former NFL scout. Okay, let's start. I thought.
The first thing that jumped out to me is good
(08:09):
teams and good gms get value. The Belichick gets Christian
Gonzales right middle of the first a very good corner,
and the Eagles got, to me the best player I
watched in college football at the number nine pick. They
moved up a spot. I mean to me, Philadelphia again.
They've got the culture, they think they have, the coach,
(08:30):
you know, Fletcher cox Age. I thought, Philadelphia got the
best player, you know the organization, Well, what were your
thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, I think, first and foremost, if you remember, several
years ago, they drafted Jalen Rager instead of Justin Jefferson,
and it really kind of bit him in the ass, right,
I mean, Justin Jefferson went on to be one of
the best players in the league and Jalen Rager's not
even on their team. I think, I mean, I know
that they kind of got together as an organization and said,
why are we out thinking the room here? Take the
(08:56):
best players from the best programs. What have they done
the last couple of years? DeVante Smith Alabama Heisman Trophy,
Jordan Davis starting defensive tackle at Georgia National Championship, trade
for aj Brown, an SEC blue chip guy who's dominating
Nakobe Dean, they draft, you know, from Georgia in the
second round. They also, I think one thing, Howie and
(09:18):
obviously Jeffrey Lewie they know well from the Andy years
and they've carried it over into their good teams. With
Doug Peterson in this last couple of years. His culture
is really big and when you have these veteran guys
like why do you resign. Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham,
they're done because they bring a lot to the table.
And then when you get a situation like this, what's
this guy going to do? I act like an idiot
around those two guys. I mean, Brandon Graham stripped Tom
(09:40):
Brady to win a Super Bowl. He's been in the
league for twelve thirteen years. Fletcher Cox, you know, is
an all time great Eagle and while he's you know,
on the other side of his career, is just an
SEC guy. The other thing they have now to me,
and in football, it is different than like AAU, right,
if you meet a kid from LA or New York AAU,
they all play together in basketball, they've all played in football.
(10:02):
If I'm from LA, I don't know the guy from
New York or Seattle or Florida. Right. Besides in college
if I play him, Well, the SEC guys all know
each other, right, and they all kind of rolled together. Well,
think about their team, Colin DeVante Smith, Alabama, Nakobe Dean,
Jordan Davis, the New Georgia guys, Fletcher Cox, SEC guy
AJ Brown, SEC guy Jalen Hurts. Well, I think we
(10:24):
think Oklahoma three years Alabama SEC guy, so their core
they all kind of speak the same language in terms
of that Southern football culture. Obviously they all come from
elite program, especially the Baman Georgia guys. It's a risky pick.
I mean, this guy, I think scared a ton of
teams as you could see him going to nine like
that's pretty telling. But I think how he feels very
(10:45):
good about their infrastructure now with their coaches, with their
players to kind of operate a lot like Belichick used
to do for years with Tom and some of their
core guys, where they as it went on, they started
taking some flyers because they felt really good about their
main guys. You can't act like an idiot when that
when the top guys you look up to and are
kind of like, you know, you have a lot in
(11:07):
common with. So I think that was I mean an
easy pick for that obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, and by the way, for those of you uninitiated,
John's a former scout. This is the kind of insight
you get, which I've never heard anybody talk about that,
but I think you're right on the money. And the
other thing that jumped out to me is I've said
with c. J. Stroud, he is a first round quarterback.
I don't see a ton of juice. He's accurate. Jared
Goff is a very accurate comp I think he's a
(11:32):
little better runner than Jared. But you know, there was
a lot of speculation. I kind of fell for it
that they would get Jalen Carter or Will Anderson. What
did you make of the Texans getting Stroud? What did
it tell you?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
One thing? I was stunned in the sense that they
just got a brand new coach who's young. And I'm
a big believer in Demiko. When I was with the Eagles,
we traded for him as a player because of his
character and I've you know, lived in the bear for
a long time, went to the practices. Kyle Shanahan swears
by the I think he's going to be a stud
head coach. I mean, he's just he's been good at
everything he's ever done in his entire life. I don't
(12:05):
know why it's gonna stop little. I mean, obviously I
understand why the GM in the front office and the
owner and needs to get a quarterback. You look at there,
But if you're Demiko, why rush into this? You know,
I think a lot of people in the NFL he
throws a beautiful ball. But when you look at Ohio
State these last couple of years, a lot like Tua
when he was Alabama. I mean, Colin, you're talking about
(12:26):
three or four top fifteen wide receivers on their team,
not like a couple guys that play in the NFL. Right,
these are top fifteen picks. Well technically in JIGBA twenty,
but you know what I mean. I mean this is
and the speed difference in the Big ten relative to
even two in the SEC that the advantage Ohio State has.
I do think that Georgia game though, because the Jared
(12:47):
gofkomp was definitely something that kind of kicks stayed with it.
But that Georgia game, he was run around. He looked
like kind of a different player. Now, I don't know
what your take was, but the take of like when
he was bonded to the test. I'm not a test taker.
I'm a football player. I didn't love that quarterbacks get
held to a higher standard. Man, you know, I mean
you're not playing slot receiver dB, so I mean Peyton Manning,
(13:11):
Tom Brady Lamar, those guys don't. They don't get defensive
over stuff like that. But risky move. I actually thought
they're moved trading back up to get will Anderson, who
I liked a lot. But holy moly, they gave up
a lot to go back from twelve to three. Especially,
But I guess when you're in the court, when you've
drafted the quarterback and they got all these picks coming
(13:31):
from Deshaun Watson, maybe they're not thinking about Caleb Williams
and Drake May anymore obviously.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know, I think it's interesting the Bears picked Darnell right,
so he engulfed the Tennessee tackle engulfed Will Anderson when
they played will Anderson was totally ineffective. And I think
mel Kuiper said it that you could be looking at
the best player on the draft. It's very interesting because
(13:57):
last year the Bears went into the offensive line and
they got a tackle from Southern Utah who started at
left tackle for him. I thought they might go Scarronsky
and go on the inside, But you know these days,
John people look at tackles is you got to play
both left or right. So my takeaway I thought they
would go with a defensive coach. They went and got
(14:19):
a corner in a safety last year, and they really
spent some money on offense in the off season, so
you know, they went and got another tight end with
Cole Kmet. They went and got you know, another receiver,
Dj Moore. So my takeaway was, Wow, they're going to
go on defense with the defensive coach and they go
(14:39):
and get Darnell right the tackle, and my takeaway is
they're taking away the excuses for Justin Fields. Like the
feeling is now like, hey, man, by the way, Atlanta
is doing this with Bijon Robinson. They're like, Okay, what
they're saying is Desmond offensive coach, top six offensive line,
we got your Drake London, k Pits and Bijon Desmond.
(15:02):
If you can play, this is good enough to move
the sticks. So I kind of, I mean, my takeaway
on the Bears was this tackle is, hey, we're gonna
make sure if Justin Fields doesn't make it, it's not
because we didn't help him. I am I reaching on that.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I actually thought coming into the draft that the Bears
were a sneaky destination for Bjon Robinson because the same mindset, right,
we got you Dj Moore, we got you Mooney, we
got you Commet, we got you now Bjon Robinson. Let's
see what you got. Yeah, same thing. The Bejon two Atlanta,
and I'm with you. I think Chicago is definitely just
(15:36):
going to be pretty open minded this year. If it
doesn't work, they'll pivot next year. He's out there, guy,
and if it does, let's keep on rocking and rolling.
And they got a bunch of picks right coming from Carolina,
the Bejon Atlanta. I remember watching Atlanta last year play
the Niners before Jimmy got hurt, and they kicked their
ass and they ran the ball right down their throat.
They had multiple running backs, multiple offensive weapons. Bijon Robinson.
(15:58):
You can't talk to anyone in the NFL that's like this.
You could argue if if he was a defensive end
or a right tackle, he would have been the number
one player in the draft.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He's literally I had two GMS tell me he's the
cleanest player in the draft.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah. Character the whole thing. So I'm not against high character,
great players, but that position, when you already got running
backs and your coach became a star by coaching a
second round guy and Derrick Henry, when your defense is hideous,
and like you said, they already have they've invested in
London last year, who was a much better pro than
I envision. I liked him at USC, but he looked
(16:31):
really interesting last year. And obviously Kyle Pitts like they
got some weapons and their guy can scheme the run
game and their O line.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
John pff had it top five.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't quite understand that pick. Now that's been out there.
It wasn't shocking because people are saying, like, keep an
eye on a Landa with John Robinson, and it came true,
unlike some of these other earlier picks, But that one's
a little bit of head scratcher, not because the guy
can't dominate, just because their defense is terrible I think statistically.
I mean, they were as bad as any defense in
the league in a lot of different categories.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So one of the things that interesting is that Michael Mayor,
the tight end for Notre Dame Dalton Kincaid, was the
first tight end taken at twenty five. So I was told,
good edge rusher draft, good tight end draft. You know,
Cowboys end up going with Mazzy Smith, a defensive tackle Michigan,
(17:24):
which is which is not a stunner because it's been
a position of need for them. And they have by
getting Gilmour and Trayvon Diggs. They're good at corner. They've
got a great athlete in Micah DeMarcus Lawrence on the edge.
So that pick for the Cowboys didn't bother me. He
was I saw him on two mock drafts as the
first pick in the second So that didn't bother me
with Dallas because my takeaway is they're just going to
(17:46):
get a tight end later. There's there are good tight
ends in the third, fourth, and fifth round, and.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They clearly got pushed down in this draft, right. I
think a lot of us thought they were going to
go in the top twenty. I also think if you're
the Cowboys, you look at this. I think the NFC
has a clear tier, right. I mean there are three
teams you would rank them, Philly, Niners, Dallas. But Dallas
gave the Niners everything they could handle in that playoff game,
and you go, we know Kyle Shanahan likes to run
the ball, and he'll run it right down our throat,
(18:11):
So we need a big body. And Philly ultimately like
the run game with their quarterback at any moment, and
the New York Giants was sakuon Barkley.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
This is a really yeah. I mean, if you look
at the way to beat Philadelphia that offensive line with Kelsey,
you've got to win the point of attack. I think
that's a great point, is that I think Dallas looked
at this. You're probably right, and they just said, we
got to play Philadelphia twice. We have to figure out
a way. They can't just Kelsey is one of the
(18:39):
top three centers maybe of my lifetime. Yeah, you can't
be totally manipulated at the point of attack. So I
you know, when you were with the Eagles, do you
sometimes look in your division and go, Okay, this is
a left tackle. I mean he's literally engulfing our people.
Do you look at personnel and division?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
One thing? How he did and this was a long
time ago, and I know he still does. This is
now his teams now on that level. But the four
teams that are in the final four, you know, the
two NFC teams and the two AFC teams, he keeps
those rosters in his in his room, and you know
they follow. You can't help it. In the NFL, your
division is just your direct competition. You view it much
(19:17):
to you know, if you're a Dallas Cowboys. You view
the Eagles not as much over the last you know,
twenty years that the football team like you do. You
know the Eagles and the Giants, right if you're the
forty nine or Seattle in the Rams, I mean, you're
just watching everything they do because it just it impacts
you exponentially more because you play them twice every year
no matter what, while all the other divisions rotate. And
(19:38):
speaking of I mean I thought Seattle, you know, I
just think Pete. You know, a lot of people thought
Jalen Carter, he takes some swings. They did not mess
around with that, which I understand everyone I know. And
teams that had no shot of getting this guy. They
loved Witherspoon kind of a throwback to you know some
of those teams they had with Russell Wilson. Those LOV
(19:58):
teams absolutely just m effort stud I mean, big time tackler,
can play inside, outside, you can move them around, can tackle.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And then they got John Seattle's got two two's, a
three and two fours. So of their three needs, one
was lock at DK. They needed another receiver, they needed
they wanted another They got one.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean, he's good, he's awesome when healthy yep.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And then they got a wide receiver and then they
get you know, Jackson Smith Jigba. So they end up
getting two of their three needs. I think they need
a guard now and then a later an edge rusher.
But I mean, if you look at last year's pick
on ESPN, they put up the last six or seven
(20:45):
like great young players. I mean they are. They had
a run John where I think Pete Carroll and Paul
Allen passed. They had a run where Pete had too
much control in the draft, and it feels like they've
given it back to John Snyder and the scouting department.
They have not missed on a pick.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Were with tackles, They got Kenneth Walker. I mean, they
got a good young nucleus. I mean they won nine
games where I'm guilty. I thought they were going to
be terrible and they were really good. And I think
they're going to be even better. I mean because they
got so many young pieces that they're building around.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Okay, so I think we both agree Seattle did well.
So Jamiir Gibbs the running back. So people are going
to bang on Detroit's picks now. Gibbs is a very
dynamic and again Alabama Big school. You see them run
over guys and run past guys in the SEC. So,
you know, my takeaway on Detroit is the last two
(21:40):
drafts with his front office, John, I've really liked them,
and so part of me thinks to myself with Swift
and Gibbs as they're trying to take they love their
own line. Okay, they solved their corner issue a little bit, right,
are they basically saying is we want to take the
pressure off Jared goff or? I mean I was watching
(22:04):
them high five in the room like this was not
a pick they had trepidation over. These guys were high fiven.
What did it say to get a running back when
they have Swift? Because their O line can control I
think can control a lot of the defensive fronts in
that division. Is that what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think in most drafts, when you see a guy
that you go, you know, I think it's fair to
say going into the any draft, a guy like him
is like an early second, you know, somewhere in like
thirty two to forty pick. This draft was viewed as
pretty terrible, Like the difference between pick eight and twenty five.
You know, you might not be able to tell the difference,
like Ken Kaid going twenty five to the Bills might
(22:43):
be no different than the sixth pick, you know, So
it's just time will tell people were not that cop.
This was not Jamar Chase and the Waddles and the
Pinasoles and the Michael Parsons. That wasn't this draft. So
when you go, well, they got to a super Bowl
with Jared Goff when he had a great running game,
right with Sean McVay with LA and last year Jared
Goff statistically was excellent, Well they had another pick and
(23:05):
they got a linebackers their defense, I mean, I think
Aiden Hutchinson is going to be a really really good player.
To me, he's got some whiffs of Joey Bosa. I mean,
he's got a chance to be a twelve fifteen sack
guy next year immediately. So if their defense is just
incrementally better their offense. I mean, the USC wide receiver
they have as a stud, like you said, their offensive
lines of stud. Their coach, while he's an offensive because
(23:26):
he's a tight end, is really wired more like a
defensive tackle. I mean, he wants to be a tough,
physical guy. I'm with you. If you love this guy,
and I'm going to give them the benefit out because
I watched them last year and they were an expressive operation,
so I think they know the wiring. The other thing
is Dan Campbell came from Sean Payton, you know, over
that five or six year run when he got fired
from Miami and went there became an assistant head coach.
(23:48):
They had really good drafts during that time when the
Saints were really good at the end of the two thousand.
You know the teams right the seventeen eighteen nineteen, So
I think he knows the wiring of the guys. I
remember sometimes the Saints hed be like, well they did that,
and then it would work out right, So I'm with you.
It was a little eye opening because you see the
second running back come off at twelve. But I'm going
(24:09):
to give them the benefit of the doubt because I
know their play style and I know what they want
to do. The other thing is when's the last time
a running back from Alabama beside Trent Richardson hasn't worked
in the NFL. You watch them all over the league.
They're all successful players well, and Jared Goff's history is
when Gurley was healthy, He's been a really good quarterback.
When Jared gets in trouble is third and long. Okay,
(24:32):
So is Detroit saying we love our OC, we just
don't want to get in third and long. You and
I know I saw Goff out duel Mahomes when they
had Gurley and naked run. Jared was getting you to
the super Bowl. It's when the O line aged and
they didn't have a consistent run game. Now you' leene
on Jared Goff and it's not pretty right. So I
(24:52):
look at Detroit and I think they love their OC.
They have good young receivers, excellent O line, Swift got
banged up, and maybe they're just saying, listen, we're just
going to do a one to two punch and we're
going to go. And by the way, in that division,
the D line for the Vikings, the D line for
the Packers, the D line for the Bears. Are you
going to pick them to win the division? You pick
Minnesota last year? To me, obviously, injuries can happen, but
(25:13):
Detroit would be my pick as of recording this today
to win in the North.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And again, I think is Detroit looking at that division
and thinking our line is significantly better in those six
games against the d lines in our division. Can we
go five and one in that division?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
For sure? And in a weird way because they haven't
even made them playoffs? Right, But if you assume that
they're going to be in the mix, the three teams
that are at the top of the conference, the Eagles,
the Niners, and Cowboys are all physical teams. So you're
getting this is not a lightweight fight. You're getting in
the ring to fight heavyweights, So you have to be
willing to play like that. And Dan Campbell is now
(25:51):
building a team. Who do they draft their second pick
in the first round a linebacker from Iowa? Right? I
mean they have a type of guy that they're looking
for to build their Honestly, that should translate to playing
the Cowboys the Eagles and just give them a chance.
If not in twenty three, the next couple of years. Obviously,
you know Jared Goff is going to be the guy
we talk about the most, but he's proven if you
(26:12):
can do it around him and their roster.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I liked a lot with the Lions. I have going
on a lot, so I mean the Will Levice situation.
I talked to people that I really trust and their
big concern with them was, listen, the kid is smart.
We know his mom went to an IV league school, Yale.
We know he's a four point student. Why is his
(26:35):
judgment so bad? And what I heard was Jay Cutler
is that Jay Cutler was arrogant and obstinate, and if
Jay had a rope, Jay had an arm, and if
Jay wanted to sling it, he didn't give a shit
what the coach said. And Jay, I'll argue it forever.
(26:56):
Jay had one of the best arms in the league
when he played. He had an absolute host. But Jay
was stubborn, rigid, difficult, and people worried Will Levis with
the selfies the gun show, look at me the combine.
He wore a muscle shirt I had. I had a
head coach and a GM told me they hated that.
(27:17):
I mean, I listen, Brady Quinn works at Fox, and
I like Brady. But that was one of the knocks
I heard is that an he can't be jacked as
a quarterback. You have to be fluid, and you don't
see biceps on Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning. Your take
on Will Levis dropping.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, I mean I think that he was a fascinating
player coming into the season, and then the season was
a disaster, and I had people that really like him.
They aren't necessarily quote unquote decision makers, but are you know,
high in their organization. Said if coming out his junior
season or whatever, two years ago, when Liam Cohen, right,
the Rams guy, was his offensive coordinator, he would have
(27:53):
been a lock top five pick. Then he goes to
Rich Skangarello, who a lot of people are down on
disastrous season, and then, like you said, kind of has
a bad offseason. The lifting things, you're not playing offensive
tackle or lineback, No one cares. It's about pliability. It's
about fluidity. And that's a big knock on his game
is fluidity touch. And we've seen so many guys Brady
(28:16):
Quinn Kaepernick got really big. Whether you can throw at
one hundred and twenty miles an hour, If you can't
throw a strike, who cares? You're not going to make
the big leagues, right, So touch is a big issue
with him. I also think that like Anthony Richardson, who
this raw guy was viewed as very mouldable. One thing
I have heard like when he went and met with people,
(28:37):
they were just like you know what this guy means? Well,
like I would love to be around this guy. There
was a lot of positive vibes around him. Very grateful,
Like Anthony Richardson wrote a Penda letter. He was like
humble and grateful. And it's like, John, you look at
that and you think, Okay, this kid wants to learn. Yeah,
and whether it works out, only time will tell, and
more than the history would show us it probably won't.
(28:58):
But I know that a lot of people were down
on him and during the process came away the opposite,
like I'm rooting for this guy. I think this guy
not crazy to go in the top five is the
ceiling is sky high, and I think will Levis started
getting more negative and negative, not like you said anything malicious, right,
but the buff stuff to the lifting the pictures on
(29:20):
Instagram within the last month, like what are we doing?
You know, it's just I mean, he didn't I mean
he tumbled. I mean this was a guy that I
think after last season twenty one, when Kentucky had the
really good year, I don't see how he wouldn't have
been a top five pick, not with those measurables, right,
But then yeah, I mean I clearly the league is
(29:42):
very I mean, this is a quarterback star of the Leak.
For no one to touch him, right, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, So we get through the first round. So I
was told by the people I trust that the people
felt there was about twelve Usually there's eighteen, about twelve
first round players, and then from about thirteen until about
the twelfth pick in the second round, they're all about
the same. So Will Levis is probably going to go
(30:10):
at my guest top of the second. You know, Rams
have a lot of picks, a second, two thirds, three fifths,
three six. When I looked at the Rams, I thought
to myself, if you're the Rams and you have you
got to get an edge. You got to get another receiver.
I think they want to back interior, offensive lineman, corner,
(30:30):
tight end. And you had eleven picks no first would
you be willing to forego if you're less sneed four
or five of those picks to just go get a
second second, have two thirds, get rid of your seventh,
your sixth, and two of your fifths, and just say
we need about six got with Stafford and Cooper cup
coming back wildly productive guys, We're going to go and
(30:54):
get about six players. Do you think teams would consider
doing that, giving up like they have two sevens, three six,
three fives?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What for them specifically? I talk to a buddy. I
think most people acknowledge the Arizona Cardinals right now are
viewed as the worst team in the league right just
roster wise, just a disaster. And a buddy of mine
was like, in the league on a really good team
was going, well, look at the Rams. I mean their
their roster is very questionable at best for a team
that tries to win it every year and be in
(31:24):
the mix. So yeah, I mean they never live in
the short term now. The only thing would be and
they're not really built like this, assuming Stafford is healthy,
would they want to just take it on the chin
and go for one of the guys next year? And
you'd go, well, based on mcveigh's history, could he take
a season at two or three wins? I would highly
doubt that. So yeah, I mean I would be shocked
(31:46):
if they don't get super aggressive tomorrow, you know, in
the second and third round, because they are not you know,
a lot of businesses. I think not just about twenty three,
but about twenty five, twenty six in any industry that
has not been their history, and especially with Sean Right,
who at any moment, you know, in any given year
for them could get fifteen million dollars to go call games.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So we are doing this at the very tail end
of the first So not only did the Eagles get
Jalen Carter, they got Nolan Smith as an edge with
the thirtieth pick.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
They go blue chip guys from the best conference. That's
an edict in the organization and it pops on television
right when you watch them play. The forty nine Ers
don't necessarily have that, like you don't need to be
from the SEC, but they have a clear you're playing personality.
If you don't play like a certain personality, they're not
(32:37):
messing with you. They specific guy.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean the Niners really draft physical players. You
become what you draft, right Like It's it's that you know,
you become what you eat, what you watch, what you draft.
Like if you look at the if you look at
the Eagles and the Niners, they are just wildly physical teams.
It's one of you know, Hendon Hooker or Will level
Us who goes first.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I think Will Levis still goes first, just based on
two years ago. You know, it's weird in these draft
rooms you still talk about what they were in high school,
what they were maybe early on in their career if
it turned, you know, turned a negative corner and the
guy struggled. So Hennon Hooker had one year. He's also
the same age as Sam Darnold. Sam Donald just played
(33:22):
on his fifth year option last year, so I mean,
and he's got a torn ACL. I think, you know,
if you were going to be in the in the
business of taking a question to me, it's a no brainer.
You would take Will the other thing. Will Levis has
played now one year, he struggled the other year in
NFL offense for two years. The Tennessee offense, while wildly
successful in college, is not viewed by both and most
(33:45):
NFL people, as you know, transferable immediately to right to
the field. So I back to the Eagles, I think
they have really just stayed so true to this. The
SEC guys, the big picture guys, think about the trade,
how they ended up here. Two years ago. They traded
Carson Wentz to the Colts, which ended up being a
(34:06):
first round so they had all those first round picks
and then they didn't need them. All, so they traded
to the Saints, who were desperate to live in the moment,
and that led them to get the Saints pick this year,
which led them to Jalen Carter, and then just their
own pick led them to Nolan Smith, who, let's face it,
the only reason he's there that late is he was
banged up this season. I mean, he's a in a
draft like this year, a guy like that healthy at
(34:28):
that program, with those measurables and that speed, No way
he's there, you know. I guess technically it's thirty one,
but because Miami gets their pick, take and it's the
thirtieth pick. Yeah, the Eagles just there's a reason when
you watch him play, their speed, their talent at every position.
I mean, they're not taking guys from from random schools anymore.
I mean, look at look at their top talent, look
(34:49):
at look at the programs they play in.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
All right, John Middlecoff three and Out a volume podcast,
does his golf as well. A good thirty minutes with John.
We appreciate everybody stopping by. John. We will talk soon.
Thanks Buddy the volume. Make sure to check out the
(35:23):
Draymon Green Show. I brought Draymond Green into the Volume
because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique
perspective understands behind the rope also chops up with guests
like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download
The Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcasts, only
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