May 23, 2023 • 44 mins
Colin and Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf give their instant reaction to the Lakers taking Game 4 in L.A. to sweep the Lakers and punch their ticket to the NBA Finals, how they overwhelmed the Lakers, Nikola Jokic’s domination of Anthony Davis, and if trading AD is the answer for L.A. They also look ahead to Heat/Celtics Game 4, what’s gone wrong for the Celtics as they stare down a sweep, and preview a likely Nuggets/Heat Finals.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Hi, everybody, welcome in Jason timp Hoops tonight.
We're going to give you a forty minute rundown of
the Lakers Nuggets, and also some thoughts on Joe Missoula,
(00:22):
head coach of the Celtics, who's probably presumably out of
work here pretty quick after they get vanquished, probably a
sweet by the Miami Heat. You know, my take is,
I thought the MVP vote became about thirty percent about
Embiid and seventy percent about Anti Jokic. If you watch
yokch in this series, he rendered Anthony Davis invisible at times.
(00:49):
Jokic is so engaged offensively, rebounding, taking the ball up
the floor, screen setting, passing, and unlike Embiid, he's not
plotting when he gets the ball. He makes quick decisions
to attack, constantly waving at his players. He makes sure
the pacing of that offense everybody's involved, and he's such
(01:11):
a deft passer that he forces you to be alert.
You look at the scoring for the Nuggets in this game,
I mean it's Caseps involved, Gordon Porter Murray, and then
of course Jokich, a facilitator a score, an offensive and
defensive rebounder, a catalyst, a screen setter. He's not a
(01:33):
great defensive player, and Denver is not a great defensive team.
But you know, I felt bad for Jokic because there
was this sense is you can't give him a third
straight MVP because we didn't do that for some notable stars.
Can we be honest? Jokis right now today is the
best player in the league. Embiid is not as consistent
(01:54):
and doesn't do as many things well offensively, and he
gets hurt a lot. Jannis is terrible, fight to go
to the free throw line late, Anthony Davis disappears offensively
every other game. This is the best player in the
National Basketball Association Jokic, and he should have won a
third straight MVP. But you know, years ago, if you
(02:16):
go to the previous five MVPs, not the last five.
The last five include you know, Jokic a couple of times.
You know Westbrook Harden. These are stat guys. They're not
most valuable players on their own teams. I mean, Chris
Paul was more valuable on that Rockets team than Harden.
Harden was just more dynamic offensively. But the leadership, the defense,
(02:39):
the guidance kind of the stewardship was Chris Paul on
that Rockets team. That's why they led in the series.
Chris Paul got hurt and they lost. Remember they had
a three to one lead. Chris Paul got hurt and
they lost. Harden didn't get hurt, Chris Paul did. So
we turned the MVP into stats and flash and flamboyance,
(03:00):
which is just he is a basketball clinic. I mean
he is. There is nothing offensively he can't do. I
trust him taking a three mid range, driving ball on
the floor, rebound, take it up the tile screen setter.
He's just a remarkable basketball player. And right now, because
he's so willing to go to the free throw line late,
(03:21):
I think he's the best basketball player in the world. Oops.
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Speaker 2 (04:35):
Colin. The Denver Nuggets I believe are going to win
in the NBA Finals, even if the Celtics miraculously come back.
I think they're better by a significant margin than both
teams coming out of the East, and they catch some
pretty specific markers that we don't typically see in NBA
champions They are a middle of the pack defense, and
(04:56):
more importantly, they are a team that lacks rim protection.
As you go back throughout NBA history, almost every single
team that has won an NBA Championship has not just
good rim protection, but great rim protection. So what do
you think is the key to this Nuggets team to
kick the trend and make it to the finals this year?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
All right, So let's look at a team in the
East that's struggling. Boston. Jason Tatum, their top player, does
not have a field goal in the fourth quarter of
the series. Let's look at another team that just got swept.
The Lakers ad mostly invisible offensively tonight. What is Denver?
Jokic thirty, Murray twenty five, Porter fifteen, Gordon twenty two,
(05:38):
KCP thirteen. They got shot makers, even guys that only
like Brown hit a couple of key baskets tonight. Boston
can't count on their number one score, the Lakers offensive
league can't count on their best player in his prime.
What Miami and Denver are doing is they've just got
(06:01):
shot makers, and you know, role players are stepping up. Listen,
the games never had more players that can hit a jumper.
I mean we romanticize nick teams that had no pure shooters,
that would have three guys on the floor that you
wouldn't even allow to shoot an eighteen footer. Everybody for Denver,
(06:23):
I mean Gordon to me hit two three pointers. I
think Gordon to me is just a long athlete, feels
more around the bucket, mid range. You can put him
on Lebron, just a classic long vertical athlete. He's cranking
up threes. So Denver's just got more guys that can
hit shots. Now, those are real players. Michael Porter was
(06:46):
the Gatorade Player of the Year in Washington State, goes
to Missouri. He's now finally post injuries. He grew up,
He's now coming into his own. He's their fourth offensive
option on many nights. I mean, he's an elite long
athlete who can hit jumpers. You can put him on anybody.
(07:06):
He can do a little rim protection against a forward.
I just think if you look at all of Denver's players, Gordon, Murray, Jokic,
and Porter, they're all in their physical prime, all of them.
The lakers most amendable player in this series still in
his prime as Austin Reeves. I think Ad tends to
(07:28):
be an old thirty. A lot of bigs EMBIID they
get old fast, So I don't think it's excuses. The
better team, with more shot makers and more of their
elite players in their prime, swept and aging. I mean,
Lebron was so tired in the second half. I mean,
(07:48):
he gave us the greatest old man half in league history,
and he just ran out of gas. He was exhausted
in the end.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I was driving me crazy listening to Mark Jackson
and Jeff Van Gundy like backseat drive. His entire second
half in every decision he's making as he's got forty
nine to nine and one turnoverlease and he's the only
Laker that actually gives a shit about winning that game,
like it was driving me crazy. But I mean, here's
the thing. If you're not going to be an elite defense,
(08:17):
if you're not gonna have elite rim protection, you have
to be truly unguardable. And what makes Denver's starting lineup
so interesting to me is if you remove any one
of the pieces, I think they suddenly fall below the
level of offense you would need in order to win
a championship. It's not just Jokic, it's the perfectly complimentary
(08:38):
star in Jamal Murray that in the actions that you
run with him makes the action unguardable. But at the
same time, he's great at the one thing Jokich is
only good at, which is that tough off the dribble
shot making right, And so they're perfectly complimentary. Add any
third defender to the mix. It's not just good shooters
on the weak side. It is dead eye cannot leave
(09:01):
them open shooters on the weak side. And then Aaron
Gordon if you just swap him with Jared Vanderbilt, it
all falls apart. It's him being that perfect guy that
gets every offensive rebound, every interior seal. He's like a
legit lob threat. Jared Vanderbilt has no vertical pop. Aaron
Gordon's just thrown. There was a play in the second
half where Jokic or first half where Yokic like airball
(09:22):
to jumper short and Gordon just went up and just grabbed,
don't it with two hands? Like He's just the whole
thing functions because every single one of those five guys
is so perfectly complimentary and they are so truly unguardable
that they only have to be okay on the defensive
end of the floor. And so yeah, the Lakers didn't
(09:42):
really seem to have much trouble driving closeouts and finishing
at the rim, you know, past Aaron Gordon throughout the series.
But they they One of the things that I thought
Denver did a really nice job of in this series
is making sure the ball ended up in the hands
of the wrong guy for the Lakers, a lot just
whip away. Their team was set up, and like Austin,
there was a really interesting adjustment that Mike Malone made
(10:03):
in Game two where he moved KCP onto Austin Reeves
instead of Jamal Murray on Austin Reeves, and that's their
best perimeter defender. He kind of started to make things
tougher on Austin Reeves, and suddenly the ball just kept
ending up in Dennis's hands with four seconds on the
shot clock, or in Ruy's hands with four seconds on
the shot clock, and those possessions just typically aren't going
to end super well. I thought it was a brilliant
(10:25):
game plan from Deniver.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, there's something you mentioned at the end, and I
almost tweeted it tonight in the second half. In the
first half, Lebron basically took over the key possessions. But
in the second half I could count. I bet you
if you went back, the Lakers had a dozen useless possessions.
And when you have limited shot makers in eighties invisible,
(10:47):
those are bad possessions. Denver is good enough where if
they get late in the shot clock, they had a
couple of those. Murray had one at the end of
the game where they just got trapped. Lebron came out
and guarded Murray and he got I think the shot
clock went off. They maybe have two bad possessions a
half for a game, you know, and that stuff adds up.
(11:09):
You know, we had talked about this that the Lakers
were a pretty low ceiling offense. Well think about tonight.
D low, one shot, AD mostly invisible Lebron in the
second half. Guest, the fact that it was that close
is staggering. This is a really good Denver team. I mean,
(11:29):
Dilo gave you nothing. AD in the first half, give
you absolutely nothing Lebron in the second half. He was tired.
How is it that close? So you know, I look
at the Lakers and I think I wouldn't run this back.
You can't make Lebron younger. Austin Reeves, as good as
(11:50):
he is, should be a four starter on a championship team, right,
not a one, two or three. He should be a four.
He's kind of consistently capable of hitting threes and creating,
so I like him. He reminds me they're totally different players.
But like KCP, it's not afraid to take a big shot,
likes contact, you know, even if it's a bad matchup,
(12:12):
He'll play it with pride. Like I like both guys
the way they play. They're just like they're talented, scrappy
guys unafraid to take a big shot. I mean, Jason
Tatum's brilliant and looks reluctant. Austin Reeves and KCP are
never reluctant players, like it's my kind of guy, right,
and those should be your fours or your fives. But
(12:32):
I look at this Laker team and their issues are
not really correctable with time. Like Denver, for instance, with
a championship, should be a more confident version of Denver.
Golden State will reboot something. You figure the Clippers eventually,
well maybe they're a year away. Try to find a
true point guard so they can get into their offense. Quicker.
(12:54):
Okc's just getting better. Memphis will have their bigs back,
like the West was Wonky should add a piece on
the bench or two. They'll move eight and bring in
more help, so you're like the West won't be as
weird as it was, and many of the other team's issues.
Bench for bigs returning for Memphis, some maturity, Dylan Brook's
(13:17):
gone bench for Phoenix size. For the Warriors, they're correctable.
What Laker issue is correctable? Eight's inconsistency, Austin Reeves ceiling
Dlo's gone flakiness Lebron's age. So to me, you got
to take a swing on this that these are not
(13:39):
one year correctible. You've got to go find some personnel
you keep ruey. But I mean, let's be honest, Vanderbilt, Beasley,
d Lo, these are not trustable players in a big spot.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
They desperately need over the top shot making. It's one
of the things in basketball that sometimes when it's your
main thing, that's a bad idea. Like that's kind of
what I didn't like about the Phoenix Suns this year
is like their main thing was we have to make
shots over the top of the defense. But making shots
over the top of the defense, especially in late clock situations,
is a great way to kind of boost your offensive numbers,
(14:16):
and it can be the difference in games. Let's think
about Game one of this series. The Lakers had a
Lebron James three at the end of the game that
could have tied it. Do you remember a Nikola Jokic
kieve at the third quarter buzzer that went in. There
was a Jamal Murray keieve on the first possession of
the fourth quarter that went in. Like shot making over
the top from Denver stole Game one when the Lakers
(14:37):
were in position to be able to get it. Look
at Game two, it's an eleven point Laker lead in
the second half. There were a half dozen possessions in
that fourth quarter where it got to a late clock
situation and Jamal Murray just stuck a tough step back
jumper in someone's face. Look at tonight, how many possessions
did the Lakers play fantastic defense? But Jokicic just made
(14:59):
some thing out of nothing at the end. And that's
the hard part is, like you look at that for
the Lakers this summer, everything else, I think they checked
pretty well. I think they're an outstanding defensive team. I
think that they've got a lot of downhill rim pressure.
They've got some really smart playmakers on the team, Lebron James,
Austin Reeves, two really high IQ guys. They just don't
(15:20):
have that reliable over the top shooting. And so when
you look at the offseason, it's like, okay, let's go
get Kyrie. Okay, great, but because of the new rules,
like you're gonna have to let go of at least
one of Austin Reeves and Ruyja Chamura you're gonna severely
handicap your ability to make moves on the margins. Not
to mention, I'm not even sure logistically how you pull
that off, because you've got to get both sides on
board in a side and trade, so that doesn't really
(15:42):
seem realistic. So and if you go like Colin, we're
gonna talk about Boston here in a little bit and
talk a little bit about their issues with finding that
alpha dog offensive player. If you go around the league,
there's not really a great option. And so the best
chance that the Lakers have, kind of like for Boston,
their best chance in my opinion, is just Tatum getting
better better. They need Anthony Davis to get in the
(16:02):
damn gym this summer and figure out how to make
some of those shots that he couldn't make all season long.
Lebron James I think is going to be fine. He is,
like he shot thirty seven percent on six attempts per
game from three in his previous five postseason runs. The
dude is one of the more reliable jump shooters in
the postseason that you'll see from a star. He's just
having a slump offseason, just like he did in twenty
fifteen or postseason. I should say I think he'll bounce back.
(16:24):
But really the only answer to the Lakers problems is
Anthony Davis gets better. Colin I said for the series,
the only chance for the Lakers to win was Anthony
Davis and Lebron James had to play like superstars and
they had to kind of like compete with what Jokic
was doing. I thought there was a gigantic chasm between
the level of play of Jokich and Anthony Davis and
all that really was the difference of the series.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Listen it. First of all, even when he's not scoring,
Jokich is so engaged. You know, like multiple times grab
the rebound. I'm just going to take the ball up
the floor and lead the break. Eighty is not going
to do that. He's a brilliant passer. Eighties not really
active hands. When Ady disappears offensively and he's not scoring,
(17:13):
he's not helping anybody. You know, Jokic when he gets
gassed and he does, he just becomes a facilidator. You're
looking at the world's best big man. He is. I mean,
Yannis is terrified late in games to get to the
free throw line. We're talking about the greatest big in
the game right now, and it's Jokic. There's no question
(17:34):
he you know, embiid can be plotting as a player
right First of all, he's not available, But we talked
about this. Sometimes you're like, dude, I'm gonna give you
the ball. Turn shoot between him and Hard and it's like, guys,
he just kill the movement. This is painful to watch.
I'm not a basketball expert, but just everybody just stops
k Jokic makes decisions very quickly. He gets the ball
(17:58):
off very quickly. He's he's screening. In fact, sometimes he
gets impatient, Murray, come off the screen, let's go. You
can see he is facilitating everything. He's pressing. You know,
a lot of bigs don't do that. They kind of
feel like it's a rest time. Like tonight. Ad sometimes
felt like he was resting on offense.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Eighty mailed at in tonight Colin, I thought, I thought
that was an embarrassing performance from him. I thought watching
Lebron James leave it all out on the floor while
Ad just kind of floated through the game was kind
of embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
To be honest, you know, I suggest this all the time.
Adis got a year left and then I think a
player option, isn't it something like that. This is the
longest stretch of not being hurt. I think you have
to at least take phone calls. I always say this.
In the NFL, there's only five quarterbacks. I would not
take a phone call on, you know, Mahomes, Josh Allen Burrow,
(18:52):
Trevor Lawrence Herbert. I'm taking and probably Jalen Hurts. Now
I'm taking a phone call on everybody else. I'm not
saying I trade him, I'm taking the call. I think
you got to take a call on a d You
gotta listen to people. And I've said this before with Lebron,
his greatness is in halfs and spurs, and you're gonna
(19:13):
get about fifty eight games. That's fine, But then the
one of the two you got to give me. Gotta
give me seventy games. You gotta give me Tatum, you
gotta give me Jayleen Brown. At this point, if you're
going to keep Lebron and they will, you gotta give
me a seventy game guy. It can't be another guy
who plays fifty eight or another guy, as you just
(19:34):
pointed out, who disappears. I'll take flaws, but you got
to give me seventy games and energy. You gotta give me.
You gotta give me a two way player. And I
think you have to take a call in a D.
And I think this is the stretch. He has tremendous value.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I look at a team like the New York Knicks
and they and they don't have much to give. But
could you get a could you get a RJ. Barrett
Julius Randall a D. Now that sounds horrible, but RJ
is going to give me a lot of games. Randall's
gonna give me a lot of games. Between the two,
I'm gonna get fairly consistent points. Now, again, it's on
the surface, it sounds like an absolutely horrible move, and
(20:12):
I'm just I'm just throwing it out there. But he
would serve with Brunson giving you seventy games, sixty five games,
he would serve. A D would be a great player
in New York. And I think maybe you have to
go get in a couple of guys, a couple of
guys to give you a real consistent, solid B plus play.
I don't know, maybe I'm maybe this, you know, again,
(20:34):
this is just vomiting here. But when when Lebron is
giving you great halfs or moments, or one great game
in a road trip, a four game Roady, or maybe
you know, a great game and a half on a
four game Roady, you gotta give me. You got to
give me a more consistent guy, even if I give
me a couple of B plus guys. But the Ad
(20:56):
Lebron thing, I think we feel because they get along
and one's a room protector and one can drive and score.
I think we feel like, you know, gosh, they really
work together. Well, I think their personalities do, but their
minutes don't right, their energy doesn't. Ad feels old and
(21:17):
he's thirty's.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It's tough because the prospect of trading Anthony Davis gets
really scary when you accept the reality that you're probably
not going to get nearly as much back as you think.
And then two, I legitimately think this roster is pretty
close to a championship level roster. I mean, they were
one of the final four teams standing after starting to
(21:42):
and ten. That's not nothing, you know what I mean?
And I know that you can explain away everything that
happens over the course of a playoff run. Every team
has certain circumstances going on. I mean, even Denver didn't
play well over the last half, like last third of
the season, So had they lost a series somewhere along
the way, people could have been like, oh, well, Denver
mailed it in down there, you know what I mean.
It's like you can explain things away. They were one
(22:02):
of the final four teams standing. But everything you're hinting
at at the problem is absolutely true with Lebron James
at this phase in their career. They need a superstar
that is dependable both in availability and in his competitiveness
and his motor because Lebron James is going to ebb
(22:23):
and flow in those areas as a guy who's been
in the league over twenty years and so again, and
everything for me comes back to this, Anthony Davis just
simply has to get better, and he's got to take
better care of his body, and he just has to
be available and more impactful. That solves so many problems.
And again, this is such an interesting example of the
(22:44):
difference between defensive impact and offensive impact. I've been preaching
about how amazing Anthony Davis is Defensively, I think he's
the best defender in the world. Over the course of
the Golden State Series, they found a way to pull
them away from the rim, and they figured some stuff out.
Denver based neutralized Anthony Davis defensively. They were giving up
one hundred and twenty one points per one hundred possessions
(23:06):
in the first three games. That's the best what I
think was the best defense in the sixteen team field.
Denver was lighting them on fire. And so it goes
to the larger kind of basketball philosophy, which is that
defensive players can be schemed around. You can find a
way to attack a weaker defender, you can find a
way to get him out of the action. But on
(23:27):
the other end of the floor, if you've got a
truly unguardable offensive player, there's nothing you can do about it.
You're It's kind of like in that Warrior series. You're
at the mercy of Steph Macon and missing shots. And
so at the end of the day, like Anthony Davis
absolutely has to improve. It's the only way that makes
this work. I don't I think any other trade is
(23:48):
going to drop them below a championship ceiling. Ad has
to get better. That to me, that, to me is
the end of the story. Like everything lies in him
and his competitiveness. Like, dude, Nikola Jokic hit a bunch
of shots in your face while he swept you on
your home floor. Take that personally, go in the gym.
You know you were a liability on offense. I tweeted
(24:09):
out these numbers, but Colin, when you threw the ball
to Anthony Davis in the post or in an isolation
situation in the bubble, it was good for one point
one points per possession, which is outstanding for a stagnant
offensive situation. This year, he's good for about two thirds
of a point. He's not even in the same stratosphere
(24:30):
as an offensive player as he used to be. And
I see Laker fans going like, why aren't they throwing
the ball to Ad more? Why aren't they because he
can't score anymore. He's not the same guy. He's just
not Yeah, and so at a certain point he's the
one light at the end of the tunnel is Anthony
Davis has to get better with his offensive polish. It's
the only thing that'll save this team.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I don't think I would take a run on Kyrie Irving,
but Dallas would that Dallas would love AD. He solves
all their issues. He gives them a second score. He's
not at all ball dependent. Luca gives you the seventy
games and the consistent energy. Anthony scores twenty three without
(25:14):
really setting up plays for him. He gives them a
rim protector. I heard at the trading deadline Dallas has
their eye on Anthony Davis and they think the Lakers.
They think Lebron still has a soft spot for Kyrie Irving.
By the way, that would be a shot maker. And
you know, again you can roll your eyes at that.
(25:34):
You'd have to give me more than Kyrie Irving. And
I don't think Dallas has it. Maybe I don't know.
Maybe you go Luca ad and you go Tim Hardaway.
Is it Tim Hardaway Kyrie Irving? I don't know if
the salary's match. You know a couple of guys that
can hit shots for the Lakers with Lebron, Austin Reeves
and Lebron running the offense, and guys that can store
on the outside. Again, just vomiting, I'm throwing it out there,
(25:57):
but I know Dallas will absolutely call on Ad. He
solves the Luca issue by the way. Also, unlike a
Porzingis or a Kyrie, a very chill doesn't want the attention,
really a low profile star with Luke. So it's like,
I'm just going to go back to this, Dallas is
(26:19):
calling on a d I think the Lakers and the
Mavericks you will hear in the next month something. I
really believe that, And I think you have to take
the phone call and listen again.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You take the phone call no matter what, to see
what kind of things are being offered. The problem is
is like going back to our conversation in the first topic,
which is you lose Anthony Davis, you lose your rent protection,
you lose your elite defense, which then automatically end of discussion.
You can't win a championship unless you're just otherworldly good offensively,
which Lebron and Kyrie. Even with Kyrie and Lebron at
(26:51):
this phase in his career, you're not there. That said,
Kyrie's is actually perfect and Lakers fans, when we discuss this,
they are way too dismissed of Kyrie's talent and the
fact that playing in Los Angeles with a real chance
to win a championship with Lebron, James as someone that
can kind of manage his This is some of the
personality dynamics that play. I actually think it's not to
(27:14):
put it clearly. If I thought you could get Kyrie
by only losing Ruie and still fielding a roster of
six to seven legit rotation players with a couple guys
who can work on the periphery, if I could roll
out Kyrie Irving with Austin Reeves, with Jared Vanderbilt, with
Lebron James and Anthony Davis, I think that solves all
(27:34):
their problems in overnight. They become a much better team.
The problem is is it's just such a long shot
for so many of those things to break right. And again,
like you just start to look around the league. It's
like like I was listening to you this morning when
you were talking with Jason McIntyre about different things that
could fix the Celtics, and one of our guys here
at the volume, mister Rory, he's a big Celtics fan,
(27:56):
text me last night and he's like, dude, who can
we trade Jalen for? Like what are we getting back?
And you start to look around and it's like, well
KD was that guy, But he's not available anymore. None
of these other guys are really moving the needle. You know,
It's funny you look at the It's like, Oh, Jimmy
Butler's killing us, How do we get a guy who
can go to totte with Jimmy Butler? Oh, Nikola Joki
(28:16):
is killing us? How do we get a guy that
can go toe to toete with Nikolajokic. There's like eight
of those dudes in the entire league, and nobody wants
to give them up. So it's like at a certain point,
like sometimes you have a ceiling. It's kind of like
the Embeid hardened pairing. There's a ceiling to that. They're
just is They're not going to They're not going to
(28:37):
go tote. Those guys crumbled under Tatum, the same guy
who's currently crumbling under Jimmy Butler. Like, there's levels to this,
and those top guys they're impossible to replace. You cannot
go toe to toe with them unless you've got another
guy at their level. Lebron is rapidly declining. I don't
know what the answer is. Again, I keep coming back
(28:59):
to eighty. Just has to get better.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well Tomorrow night, Miami with a huge coaching edge probably
finishes off Boston. You know, Brad Stevens highly wanted, recommended
Joe Missoula for the job. So that's that's a much
more difficult firing than most like he was Brad's sort
(29:24):
of his mentor. So that's going to be an awkward situation.
But I will tell you that it happens a lot
more than we think, And it happens all the time
in college sports, where a really good coach leaves or
is forced to leave, or takes a better job, and
you give it to the coordinator and he's just not ready.
(29:45):
I mean, it happens six times a year in college football.
And in fact, when I grew up in the Pacific Northwest,
all four schools did it. So Washington in the seventies
was a dominant college football program. Seventies and eighties, legend leaves,
they give it to the defensive coordinator. Jim Lambright fails,
Ralph Miller. Oregon State, at one point in the seventies
(30:07):
had a top ten basketball program left. They give it
to his assistant, Jimmy Anderson. They never recovered Oregon Chip Kelly,
Mark Helfrich didn't work, Mike Price, and I think it
was Bill Doba at Washington State football didn't work. So
you see this all the time. Joe Mozula is just
not ready. He could be ready in four years. But
(30:28):
it's like it's the Celtics. It's not like he got
a bad team and he could play invisible midweek games.
It's like, oh no, it's Eric Spolstra, the world's best coach,
and they'll play again on national TV. And Boston's such
an outrageously outspoken, in your face media market and I'm
watching it and I'm like, oh, this poor guy. I
(30:49):
mean again, if you're a college coach that's over their skis,
you play on Raycon TV in the South, nobody sees it.
There's seven games on Saturday in your region. Joe Mizzoula
just you can't hide in Boston. It's just it's too
intense a market. You just can't hide. And so I
think they're gonna I don't think they have to make
wholesale changes. I do wish they had somebody that was
(31:13):
a little more aggressive offense, because I think they have
really good defensive players. I think they could find a
point guard that's not gifted off defensively. But somebody who
get you into the offense. They remind me of a
more talented version of the Clippers, Jason, when Paul George
and Kawhi are kind of running it and you're like, Okay,
(31:33):
this is odd. This is not there. This is not
what it's like the wildcat offense in football when you
hiked it to a running back. You were getting yards,
but you're like, this doesn't look right, this is not right.
I've watched the Clippers for three years, and I'm like,
could we get a point guard? I mean, that's why
Westbrook kind of worked for them, like he got them
into their their offense. I feel like Boston a lot
(31:54):
of times Tatum looks at Brown, Brown looks at Smart Smart.
It's more of a defensive player. I think if Boston
needs anything your opinion, I'm interested in somebody to get
him into their offense.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Quicker. So it's interesting, Colin, because we were having a
similar conversation after the Warriors series last year. And you know,
it's funny. Every time I've been watching basketball forever, not
as long as you have, but for a long time,
and every season when it finishes, I always like to
have like a couple of things that I learned. I
actually do a little video at the end of each season,
(32:26):
like of what I learned about the NBA this year
and last year it was like, oh, you know, the
Celtics needed ball handling, they needed ball handling. But one
of the things that I think this season has taught
me is like, there's a difference between aggregate ball handling
and top end ball handling. And we thought that the
Celtics could fix their issues by bringing in another ball
(32:47):
handler right in the form of Malcolm Brogden. But then
you find yourself at the end of the game and
it's like, what are we going to do run our
clutch offense through Malcolm Brogden when Jason Tatum's on the floor,
and it's like, oh, actually, the real problem here is
is Tatum's not as good as Jimmy. That's the real
problem here, and he doesn't have someone that can help
kind of navigate those alpha dog scenarios. And that's where
(33:08):
I think the Missoula thing becomes a problem. I think
that the answer to the Celtics this year and moving
forward is, yes, Jalen Brown's going to be way too expensive, Maxim.
I'm sorry, he's too good to let go you're not
going to get anything worth as nearly as good as him.
In return, I think you've got to run it back
basically with an alpha dog coach. I think we underestimated
emy Udoka's impact last year in the way he helped
(33:32):
Tatum and Brown navigate those scenarios because you can say
one thing, you yes, Boston last year had a lot
of the similar tendencies when it came to sloppiness and
decision making, but those dudes fought every minute when they
were out there. They were one of the most impressive
defenses I had ever seen. Their defensive identity is gone.
(33:54):
They're giving up like ten additional points per hunter possessions
in the half court compared to last year. Defensively, they
are not the same type of psychological entity that they
were last year. And so again, kind of like we
were talking about with Anthony Davis, I was looking down
the list and I'm like, man, and we don't know
the deals. Maybe Brooklyn was like, we don't want Jalen Brown,
(34:15):
but if Kevin Durant was available, like last summer, that
was the move, because then you're bringing in an alpha
dog that can be in a series with Jimmy Butler
and not be scared and command the offense down the
stretch slot Jason Tatum into a supporting role of the
way that he's supposed to, but go down the list
of guys this summer, Like, is Bradley Beal going to
solve their problems? I don't think so. So the reality
(34:35):
is their best bet is Jason Tatum developing as a
ball handler, and I think that can be accelerated by
the right coach, and it needs to be like a
real alpha dog personality. And this is why I keep
coming back to Nick Nurse, and I know he's a
finalist for the Bucks job, and so hopefully Boston becomes
aware of that and jumps in a little sooner. I'm
not the biggest Nick Nurse fan because sometimes I think
(34:57):
he can be a little over aggressive with this scheming
and he's a big, gimmicky, overhelp defense guy, which sometimes
can hurt you in certain situations. But you know, he's
the guy that wrote a book right after he won
a championship and in the book was like criticizing his
own players, and he like he actually is a presence
in the room that will get buy in. Like Missoula
(35:18):
straight up admitted in the postgame presser that he lost
the locker room. He said it, Yeah, I've lost a
connection with these guys, Like it's just not there. You
need somebody that can drive that alpha dog mentality the
same way that Email Yudoka did. I think I think
the move is a coach. And again, like just like
you field calls, someone calls and says, hey, we'll give
(35:39):
you so and so and so and so. For Jaylen Brown,
you field the call and if the right ball handler
is there, Yeah, I like the move, but I just
don't know who that is. And so in that scenario,
you have to go with the most talented roster in
basketball and hope a better coach fixes the problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I mean it's also been in the are you This
example on TV is that when Nick Saban first got
the SEC job, the SEC had some really Tomato can coaches. Now,
Lane Kiffen Kirby Smart, there's like real guys there. This
was a year in which the coaching in the East
(36:18):
was weak. So Tibbs is a culture guy, energy guy,
limitations offensively. Missoula is a kid. Doc Rivers is a
culture guy, not really an adapter a scheme guy. Budenholzer,
the team got old, and I you know, he got
(36:38):
kind of unveiled in some coaching situational late game stuff.
Quinn Snyder great, but got the job in late February.
It was a it was kind of a bad Eastern
Conference here for coaching, and here's Spolstra, and I think
he just took the hatchet out to these guys. He
got a defensive coach, he got a couple culture coaches.
(37:00):
You know, he hit the matchups worked out well, and
I think I think what happened is Milwaukee got really old,
really fast. You saw at the end of the year.
I thought they I thought, like an old team like
Jay Crowder, Joe Ingles, like, oh wow, they can't play fast.
Chris Middleton, Oh he's like the fourth best player and
a good team like it happened like in thirty games.
You're like, oh, these guys aren't getting better. Ingles had surgery.
(37:21):
You're like, he's seven a game. He can't play. And
so I do think I think Miami's I don't think
they're going to return next year. I think they're going
to go after like Damian Lillard. I think they're very
attractive now because some of their young guys. They're undrafted guys.
They're not you can't resign these guys. They're playing completely
over their skis. So I think they'll they'll go out
and get a dame. But I think I think there
are sometimes circumstances, Like I don't think Denver's a circumstantial team,
(37:44):
they're just really good. I think there's some circumstances that
have really worked. Iman Adulka's back with Boston. This is
a very even series. I mean this it's so I think,
like Saban early in the SEC, I think, I think Spolstra,
I kind of know this is like I got, I
got culture coach, sixty one year old coach, rookie coach,
(38:06):
and it all and Lebron's over in the West that
it all sort of worked out well.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You and I've been on this the entire tail end
of the season. Like Spulshre is the best coach in
the NBA. He is the best, yeah, protecting his players
from their own weaknesses. Schematically, he's always several levels above
his opponent in these series, you know, ironically, like he's
pulling rabbits out of hats here man, like he's he's
(38:33):
making something out of nothing. And again, our guy Draymond's like, hey,
don't call them undrafted. Their pros just like everyone else.
I agree, and I agree with. I appreciate the sentiment
of what he's saying, but I'm sorry, but if Caleb
Martin out played Jalen Brown in this series, there's not
a single there's not a single general manager in the
(38:54):
entire NBA that would take Caleb Martin over Jalen Brown.
And that's the that's the exciting part from Miami fan
is like they're going to have more talented rosters in
the next ten years. Spulture's going to be coaching those teams.
The Heat are just going to be around, like they're
just going to be in these fights non stop. But
there's no doubt that that coaching element plays a huge role,
especially when you get deeper into the postseason. I mean,
(39:16):
Mike Budenholzer was unwilling to adjust, completely unwilling to adjust
as m as Jimmy Butler was smoking them. Joe Missoula
was way too late to make any sort of aggressive
adjustment in this particular series. It's given them an advantage.
You know, it's funny with the NBA. To me, it's
so many times, it's about a war of attrition and
like who's kind of left standing at the end of
the day. Jimmy Butler, after losing in the Eastern Conference
(39:38):
finals last year, was being interviewed and he goes, yeah,
we had enough this year. We'll have enough next year.
Except for next year, we're going to get it done.
And at the time he sounded crazy. And here they
are with less talent than last year, and they're going
to go to the NBA Finals. They're going to be
Boston tomorrow because Boston is going to quit. And it's like,
like that's they just happened to stick around while everything
(39:59):
else crumbled around own them, and now they now they're
four wins away from an NBA championship. It's there Miami.
Miami's one of those teams that we can never rule
out in any situation. I don't care if they're in
the back end of the playing tournament that they were,
they were losing in the final three minutes against Chicago
in the second playing game. They were under five hundred
(40:20):
over the last twenty five games of the season. There's
no scenario where we can write Miami off moving forward.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, and I think you know, going into this series,
I thought Boston would win. But I said, I think
Spolstro was gonna win two games. And I also said,
if I have a better coach and the best player,
and then BAM's got to be a top three or
four player, they're going to be. I thought the games
would be competitive. I didn't know Spoe would win all
four games. You know, I'll tell you this, BAM's really
(40:48):
served himself well, he's been. He is so active, jeezu
he is. He's on the floor, he's you know, he's
a little bit like Loke Jokic. He's just around the ball.
He's batting it around, he's volleyballing it around. So they
get Tyler Hero back next year. I think I think
they're they need one more. You know, it sounds crazy
(41:14):
at Jordan Poole thing like they need another. You know,
Damien's better, but you know Damien's small. Damien is going
to give you about sixty five games. You know, Damien's
played high school, college and pro all out West. It'll
be a little different. I feel like, I think I
(41:34):
feel like Boston could be a championship team. You bring
Tyler Hero back, Bam. Jimmy Butler You'll probably keep one
of the younger guys. They just need they need one more,
one more lethal shooter. And I know I people just
keep rolling their eyes at Jordan Pool. I heard it
(41:55):
was on the Ring or I heard a clip from
Doc Rivers son Austin Rivers. He was saying, you know,
I know how you guys. He was talking about Austin Reeves.
He goes. I like him. He does a lot well,
he said, but skill set, he's like Jordan Poole's like crazy,
like crazy talented. And the last couple of games of
(42:17):
that series against the Lakers, he played way more under control.
He took a mid range. I'm they're going to take
calls on him. I am so interested to see where
he goes, because I really do look at Miami and
I think to myself, I've got a star, I've got
length hero coming back. Give me, give me a really
(42:38):
good two. I mean, wouldn't you want to play on
that team? I mean, one of the great things is
you can get your points and your looks in the
regular season. Butler's Butler's got no interest giving you thirty
six points in the regular season, right like Jimmy is
going to compete but he'll in the regular season. You're
going to get some looks. Miami's going to be really
(42:59):
interesting next year.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, they absolutely need to get him a dependable number
two at some point because here's the thing. I think
Denver is going to win in the finals for two reasons.
Denver's better and two. I'm sorry, but as much as
I appreciate and respect Jimmy Butler, he can't alpha dog
Nikola Jokic like that. That's just not going to happen.
I mean, heck, you might not even be able to
do that to Jamal Murray, who's one of the biggest
(43:22):
irrational confidence guys that we have in the league, although
he's backing it up.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
The Volume. Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show.
I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of
the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective understands behind
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(44:02):
Show wherever you get your podcasts, only on the Volume
Podcast Network.
The volume. Hi, everybody, welcome in Jason timp Hoops tonight.
We're going to give you a forty minute rundown of
the Lakers Nuggets, and also some thoughts on Joe Missoula,
(00:22):
head coach of the Celtics, who's probably presumably out of
work here pretty quick after they get vanquished, probably a
sweet by the Miami Heat. You know, my take is,
I thought the MVP vote became about thirty percent about
Embiid and seventy percent about Anti Jokic. If you watch
yokch in this series, he rendered Anthony Davis invisible at times.
(00:49):
Jokic is so engaged offensively, rebounding, taking the ball up
the floor, screen setting, passing, and unlike Embiid, he's not
plotting when he gets the ball. He makes quick decisions
to attack, constantly waving at his players. He makes sure
the pacing of that offense everybody's involved, and he's such
(01:11):
a deft passer that he forces you to be alert.
You look at the scoring for the Nuggets in this game,
I mean it's Caseps involved, Gordon Porter Murray, and then
of course Jokich, a facilitator a score, an offensive and
defensive rebounder, a catalyst, a screen setter. He's not a
(01:33):
great defensive player, and Denver is not a great defensive team.
But you know, I felt bad for Jokic because there
was this sense is you can't give him a third
straight MVP because we didn't do that for some notable stars.
Can we be honest? Jokis right now today is the
best player in the league. Embiid is not as consistent
(01:54):
and doesn't do as many things well offensively, and he
gets hurt a lot. Jannis is terrible, fight to go
to the free throw line late, Anthony Davis disappears offensively
every other game. This is the best player in the
National Basketball Association Jokic, and he should have won a
third straight MVP. But you know, years ago, if you
(02:16):
go to the previous five MVPs, not the last five.
The last five include you know, Jokic a couple of times.
You know Westbrook Harden. These are stat guys. They're not
most valuable players on their own teams. I mean, Chris
Paul was more valuable on that Rockets team than Harden.
Harden was just more dynamic offensively. But the leadership, the defense,
(02:39):
the guidance kind of the stewardship was Chris Paul on
that Rockets team. That's why they led in the series.
Chris Paul got hurt and they lost. Remember they had
a three to one lead. Chris Paul got hurt and
they lost. Harden didn't get hurt, Chris Paul did. So
we turned the MVP into stats and flash and flamboyance,
(03:00):
which is just he is a basketball clinic. I mean
he is. There is nothing offensively he can't do. I
trust him taking a three mid range, driving ball on
the floor, rebound, take it up the tile screen setter.
He's just a remarkable basketball player. And right now, because
he's so willing to go to the free throw line late,
(03:21):
I think he's the best basketball player in the world. Oops.
Tonight podcaster Jason Timph let's talk how great have the
NBA Playoffs been so far? If you live in one
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the United States. Use the code colin ceeln.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Colin. The Denver Nuggets I believe are going to win
in the NBA Finals, even if the Celtics miraculously come back.
I think they're better by a significant margin than both
teams coming out of the East, and they catch some
pretty specific markers that we don't typically see in NBA
champions They are a middle of the pack defense, and
(04:56):
more importantly, they are a team that lacks rim protection.
As you go back throughout NBA history, almost every single
team that has won an NBA Championship has not just
good rim protection, but great rim protection. So what do
you think is the key to this Nuggets team to
kick the trend and make it to the finals this year?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
All right, So let's look at a team in the
East that's struggling. Boston. Jason Tatum, their top player, does
not have a field goal in the fourth quarter of
the series. Let's look at another team that just got swept.
The Lakers ad mostly invisible offensively tonight. What is Denver?
Jokic thirty, Murray twenty five, Porter fifteen, Gordon twenty two,
(05:38):
KCP thirteen. They got shot makers, even guys that only
like Brown hit a couple of key baskets tonight. Boston
can't count on their number one score, the Lakers offensive
league can't count on their best player in his prime.
What Miami and Denver are doing is they've just got
(06:01):
shot makers, and you know, role players are stepping up. Listen,
the games never had more players that can hit a jumper.
I mean we romanticize nick teams that had no pure shooters,
that would have three guys on the floor that you
wouldn't even allow to shoot an eighteen footer. Everybody for Denver,
(06:23):
I mean Gordon to me hit two three pointers. I
think Gordon to me is just a long athlete, feels
more around the bucket, mid range. You can put him
on Lebron, just a classic long vertical athlete. He's cranking
up threes. So Denver's just got more guys that can
hit shots. Now, those are real players. Michael Porter was
(06:46):
the Gatorade Player of the Year in Washington State, goes
to Missouri. He's now finally post injuries. He grew up,
He's now coming into his own. He's their fourth offensive
option on many nights. I mean, he's an elite long
athlete who can hit jumpers. You can put him on anybody.
(07:06):
He can do a little rim protection against a forward.
I just think if you look at all of Denver's players, Gordon, Murray, Jokic,
and Porter, they're all in their physical prime, all of them.
The lakers most amendable player in this series still in
his prime as Austin Reeves. I think Ad tends to
(07:28):
be an old thirty. A lot of bigs EMBIID they
get old fast, So I don't think it's excuses. The
better team, with more shot makers and more of their
elite players in their prime, swept and aging. I mean,
Lebron was so tired in the second half. I mean,
(07:48):
he gave us the greatest old man half in league history,
and he just ran out of gas. He was exhausted
in the end.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I was driving me crazy listening to Mark Jackson
and Jeff Van Gundy like backseat drive. His entire second
half in every decision he's making as he's got forty
nine to nine and one turnoverlease and he's the only
Laker that actually gives a shit about winning that game,
like it was driving me crazy. But I mean, here's
the thing. If you're not going to be an elite defense,
(08:17):
if you're not gonna have elite rim protection, you have
to be truly unguardable. And what makes Denver's starting lineup
so interesting to me is if you remove any one
of the pieces, I think they suddenly fall below the
level of offense you would need in order to win
a championship. It's not just Jokic, it's the perfectly complimentary
(08:38):
star in Jamal Murray that in the actions that you
run with him makes the action unguardable. But at the
same time, he's great at the one thing Jokich is
only good at, which is that tough off the dribble
shot making right, And so they're perfectly complimentary. Add any
third defender to the mix. It's not just good shooters
on the weak side. It is dead eye cannot leave
(09:01):
them open shooters on the weak side. And then Aaron
Gordon if you just swap him with Jared Vanderbilt, it
all falls apart. It's him being that perfect guy that
gets every offensive rebound, every interior seal. He's like a
legit lob threat. Jared Vanderbilt has no vertical pop. Aaron
Gordon's just thrown. There was a play in the second
half where Jokic or first half where Yokic like airball
(09:22):
to jumper short and Gordon just went up and just grabbed,
don't it with two hands? Like He's just the whole
thing functions because every single one of those five guys
is so perfectly complimentary and they are so truly unguardable
that they only have to be okay on the defensive
end of the floor. And so yeah, the Lakers didn't
(09:42):
really seem to have much trouble driving closeouts and finishing
at the rim, you know, past Aaron Gordon throughout the series.
But they they One of the things that I thought
Denver did a really nice job of in this series
is making sure the ball ended up in the hands
of the wrong guy for the Lakers, a lot just
whip away. Their team was set up, and like Austin,
there was a really interesting adjustment that Mike Malone made
(10:03):
in Game two where he moved KCP onto Austin Reeves
instead of Jamal Murray on Austin Reeves, and that's their
best perimeter defender. He kind of started to make things
tougher on Austin Reeves, and suddenly the ball just kept
ending up in Dennis's hands with four seconds on the
shot clock, or in Ruy's hands with four seconds on
the shot clock, and those possessions just typically aren't going
to end super well. I thought it was a brilliant
(10:25):
game plan from Deniver.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, there's something you mentioned at the end, and I
almost tweeted it tonight in the second half. In the
first half, Lebron basically took over the key possessions. But
in the second half I could count. I bet you
if you went back, the Lakers had a dozen useless possessions.
And when you have limited shot makers in eighties invisible,
(10:47):
those are bad possessions. Denver is good enough where if
they get late in the shot clock, they had a
couple of those. Murray had one at the end of
the game where they just got trapped. Lebron came out
and guarded Murray and he got I think the shot
clock went off. They maybe have two bad possessions a
half for a game, you know, and that stuff adds up.
(11:09):
You know, we had talked about this that the Lakers
were a pretty low ceiling offense. Well think about tonight.
D low, one shot, AD mostly invisible Lebron in the
second half. Guest, the fact that it was that close
is staggering. This is a really good Denver team. I mean,
(11:29):
Dilo gave you nothing. AD in the first half, give
you absolutely nothing Lebron in the second half. He was tired.
How is it that close? So you know, I look
at the Lakers and I think I wouldn't run this back.
You can't make Lebron younger. Austin Reeves, as good as
(11:50):
he is, should be a four starter on a championship team, right,
not a one, two or three. He should be a four.
He's kind of consistently capable of hitting threes and creating,
so I like him. He reminds me they're totally different players.
But like KCP, it's not afraid to take a big shot,
likes contact, you know, even if it's a bad matchup,
(12:12):
He'll play it with pride. Like I like both guys
the way they play. They're just like they're talented, scrappy
guys unafraid to take a big shot. I mean, Jason
Tatum's brilliant and looks reluctant. Austin Reeves and KCP are
never reluctant players, like it's my kind of guy, right,
and those should be your fours or your fives. But
(12:32):
I look at this Laker team and their issues are
not really correctable with time. Like Denver, for instance, with
a championship, should be a more confident version of Denver.
Golden State will reboot something. You figure the Clippers eventually,
well maybe they're a year away. Try to find a
true point guard so they can get into their offense. Quicker.
(12:54):
Okc's just getting better. Memphis will have their bigs back,
like the West was Wonky should add a piece on
the bench or two. They'll move eight and bring in
more help, so you're like the West won't be as
weird as it was, and many of the other team's issues.
Bench for bigs returning for Memphis, some maturity, Dylan Brook's
(13:17):
gone bench for Phoenix size. For the Warriors, they're correctable.
What Laker issue is correctable? Eight's inconsistency, Austin Reeves ceiling
Dlo's gone flakiness Lebron's age. So to me, you got
to take a swing on this that these are not
(13:39):
one year correctible. You've got to go find some personnel
you keep ruey. But I mean, let's be honest, Vanderbilt, Beasley,
d Lo, these are not trustable players in a big spot.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
They desperately need over the top shot making. It's one
of the things in basketball that sometimes when it's your
main thing, that's a bad idea. Like that's kind of
what I didn't like about the Phoenix Suns this year
is like their main thing was we have to make
shots over the top of the defense. But making shots
over the top of the defense, especially in late clock situations,
is a great way to kind of boost your offensive numbers,
(14:16):
and it can be the difference in games. Let's think
about Game one of this series. The Lakers had a
Lebron James three at the end of the game that
could have tied it. Do you remember a Nikola Jokic
kieve at the third quarter buzzer that went in. There
was a Jamal Murray keieve on the first possession of
the fourth quarter that went in. Like shot making over
the top from Denver stole Game one when the Lakers
(14:37):
were in position to be able to get it. Look
at Game two, it's an eleven point Laker lead in
the second half. There were a half dozen possessions in
that fourth quarter where it got to a late clock
situation and Jamal Murray just stuck a tough step back
jumper in someone's face. Look at tonight, how many possessions
did the Lakers play fantastic defense? But Jokicic just made
(14:59):
some thing out of nothing at the end. And that's
the hard part is, like you look at that for
the Lakers this summer, everything else, I think they checked
pretty well. I think they're an outstanding defensive team. I
think that they've got a lot of downhill rim pressure.
They've got some really smart playmakers on the team, Lebron James,
Austin Reeves, two really high IQ guys. They just don't
(15:20):
have that reliable over the top shooting. And so when
you look at the offseason, it's like, okay, let's go
get Kyrie. Okay, great, but because of the new rules,
like you're gonna have to let go of at least
one of Austin Reeves and Ruyja Chamura you're gonna severely
handicap your ability to make moves on the margins. Not
to mention, I'm not even sure logistically how you pull
that off, because you've got to get both sides on
board in a side and trade, so that doesn't really
(15:42):
seem realistic. So and if you go like Colin, we're
gonna talk about Boston here in a little bit and
talk a little bit about their issues with finding that
alpha dog offensive player. If you go around the league,
there's not really a great option. And so the best
chance that the Lakers have, kind of like for Boston,
their best chance in my opinion, is just Tatum getting
better better. They need Anthony Davis to get in the
(16:02):
damn gym this summer and figure out how to make
some of those shots that he couldn't make all season long.
Lebron James I think is going to be fine. He is,
like he shot thirty seven percent on six attempts per
game from three in his previous five postseason runs. The
dude is one of the more reliable jump shooters in
the postseason that you'll see from a star. He's just
having a slump offseason, just like he did in twenty
fifteen or postseason. I should say I think he'll bounce back.
(16:24):
But really the only answer to the Lakers problems is
Anthony Davis gets better. Colin I said for the series,
the only chance for the Lakers to win was Anthony
Davis and Lebron James had to play like superstars and
they had to kind of like compete with what Jokic
was doing. I thought there was a gigantic chasm between
the level of play of Jokich and Anthony Davis and
all that really was the difference of the series.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Listen it. First of all, even when he's not scoring,
Jokich is so engaged. You know, like multiple times grab
the rebound. I'm just going to take the ball up
the floor and lead the break. Eighty is not going
to do that. He's a brilliant passer. Eighties not really
active hands. When Ady disappears offensively and he's not scoring,
(17:13):
he's not helping anybody. You know, Jokic when he gets
gassed and he does, he just becomes a facilidator. You're
looking at the world's best big man. He is. I mean,
Yannis is terrified late in games to get to the
free throw line. We're talking about the greatest big in
the game right now, and it's Jokic. There's no question
(17:34):
he you know, embiid can be plotting as a player
right First of all, he's not available, But we talked
about this. Sometimes you're like, dude, I'm gonna give you
the ball. Turn shoot between him and Hard and it's like, guys,
he just kill the movement. This is painful to watch.
I'm not a basketball expert, but just everybody just stops
k Jokic makes decisions very quickly. He gets the ball
(17:58):
off very quickly. He's he's screening. In fact, sometimes he
gets impatient, Murray, come off the screen, let's go. You
can see he is facilitating everything. He's pressing. You know,
a lot of bigs don't do that. They kind of
feel like it's a rest time. Like tonight. Ad sometimes
felt like he was resting on offense.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Eighty mailed at in tonight Colin, I thought, I thought
that was an embarrassing performance from him. I thought watching
Lebron James leave it all out on the floor while
Ad just kind of floated through the game was kind
of embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
To be honest, you know, I suggest this all the time.
Adis got a year left and then I think a
player option, isn't it something like that. This is the
longest stretch of not being hurt. I think you have
to at least take phone calls. I always say this.
In the NFL, there's only five quarterbacks. I would not
take a phone call on, you know, Mahomes, Josh Allen Burrow,
(18:52):
Trevor Lawrence Herbert. I'm taking and probably Jalen Hurts. Now
I'm taking a phone call on everybody else. I'm not
saying I trade him, I'm taking the call. I think
you got to take a call on a d You
gotta listen to people. And I've said this before with Lebron,
his greatness is in halfs and spurs, and you're gonna
(19:13):
get about fifty eight games. That's fine, But then the
one of the two you got to give me. Gotta
give me seventy games. You gotta give me Tatum, you
gotta give me Jayleen Brown. At this point, if you're
going to keep Lebron and they will, you gotta give
me a seventy game guy. It can't be another guy
who plays fifty eight or another guy, as you just
(19:34):
pointed out, who disappears. I'll take flaws, but you got
to give me seventy games and energy. You gotta give me.
You gotta give me a two way player. And I
think you have to take a call in a D.
And I think this is the stretch. He has tremendous value.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I look at a team like the New York Knicks
and they and they don't have much to give. But
could you get a could you get a RJ. Barrett
Julius Randall a D. Now that sounds horrible, but RJ
is going to give me a lot of games. Randall's
gonna give me a lot of games. Between the two,
I'm gonna get fairly consistent points. Now, again, it's on
the surface, it sounds like an absolutely horrible move, and
(20:12):
I'm just I'm just throwing it out there. But he
would serve with Brunson giving you seventy games, sixty five games,
he would serve. A D would be a great player
in New York. And I think maybe you have to
go get in a couple of guys, a couple of
guys to give you a real consistent, solid B plus play.
I don't know, maybe I'm maybe this, you know, again,
(20:34):
this is just vomiting here. But when when Lebron is
giving you great halfs or moments, or one great game
in a road trip, a four game Roady, or maybe
you know, a great game and a half on a
four game Roady, you gotta give me. You got to
give me a more consistent guy, even if I give
me a couple of B plus guys. But the Ad
(20:56):
Lebron thing, I think we feel because they get along
and one's a room protector and one can drive and score.
I think we feel like, you know, gosh, they really
work together. Well, I think their personalities do, but their
minutes don't right, their energy doesn't. Ad feels old and
(21:17):
he's thirty's.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It's tough because the prospect of trading Anthony Davis gets
really scary when you accept the reality that you're probably
not going to get nearly as much back as you think.
And then two, I legitimately think this roster is pretty
close to a championship level roster. I mean, they were
one of the final four teams standing after starting to
(21:42):
and ten. That's not nothing, you know what I mean?
And I know that you can explain away everything that
happens over the course of a playoff run. Every team
has certain circumstances going on. I mean, even Denver didn't
play well over the last half, like last third of
the season, So had they lost a series somewhere along
the way, people could have been like, oh, well, Denver
mailed it in down there, you know what I mean.
It's like you can explain things away. They were one
(22:02):
of the final four teams standing. But everything you're hinting
at at the problem is absolutely true with Lebron James
at this phase in their career. They need a superstar
that is dependable both in availability and in his competitiveness
and his motor because Lebron James is going to ebb
(22:23):
and flow in those areas as a guy who's been
in the league over twenty years and so again, and
everything for me comes back to this, Anthony Davis just
simply has to get better, and he's got to take
better care of his body, and he just has to
be available and more impactful. That solves so many problems.
And again, this is such an interesting example of the
(22:44):
difference between defensive impact and offensive impact. I've been preaching
about how amazing Anthony Davis is Defensively, I think he's
the best defender in the world. Over the course of
the Golden State Series, they found a way to pull
them away from the rim, and they figured some stuff out.
Denver based neutralized Anthony Davis defensively. They were giving up
one hundred and twenty one points per one hundred possessions
(23:06):
in the first three games. That's the best what I
think was the best defense in the sixteen team field.
Denver was lighting them on fire. And so it goes
to the larger kind of basketball philosophy, which is that
defensive players can be schemed around. You can find a
way to attack a weaker defender, you can find a
way to get him out of the action. But on
(23:27):
the other end of the floor, if you've got a
truly unguardable offensive player, there's nothing you can do about it.
You're It's kind of like in that Warrior series. You're
at the mercy of Steph Macon and missing shots. And
so at the end of the day, like Anthony Davis
absolutely has to improve. It's the only way that makes
this work. I don't I think any other trade is
(23:48):
going to drop them below a championship ceiling. Ad has
to get better. That to me, that, to me is
the end of the story. Like everything lies in him
and his competitiveness. Like, dude, Nikola Jokic hit a bunch
of shots in your face while he swept you on
your home floor. Take that personally, go in the gym.
You know you were a liability on offense. I tweeted
(24:09):
out these numbers, but Colin, when you threw the ball
to Anthony Davis in the post or in an isolation
situation in the bubble, it was good for one point
one points per possession, which is outstanding for a stagnant
offensive situation. This year, he's good for about two thirds
of a point. He's not even in the same stratosphere
(24:30):
as an offensive player as he used to be. And
I see Laker fans going like, why aren't they throwing
the ball to Ad more? Why aren't they because he
can't score anymore. He's not the same guy. He's just
not Yeah, and so at a certain point he's the
one light at the end of the tunnel is Anthony
Davis has to get better with his offensive polish. It's
the only thing that'll save this team.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I don't think I would take a run on Kyrie Irving,
but Dallas would that Dallas would love AD. He solves
all their issues. He gives them a second score. He's
not at all ball dependent. Luca gives you the seventy
games and the consistent energy. Anthony scores twenty three without
(25:14):
really setting up plays for him. He gives them a
rim protector. I heard at the trading deadline Dallas has
their eye on Anthony Davis and they think the Lakers.
They think Lebron still has a soft spot for Kyrie Irving.
By the way, that would be a shot maker. And
you know, again you can roll your eyes at that.
(25:34):
You'd have to give me more than Kyrie Irving. And
I don't think Dallas has it. Maybe I don't know.
Maybe you go Luca ad and you go Tim Hardaway.
Is it Tim Hardaway Kyrie Irving? I don't know if
the salary's match. You know a couple of guys that
can hit shots for the Lakers with Lebron, Austin Reeves
and Lebron running the offense, and guys that can store
on the outside. Again, just vomiting, I'm throwing it out there,
(25:57):
but I know Dallas will absolutely call on Ad. He
solves the Luca issue by the way. Also, unlike a
Porzingis or a Kyrie, a very chill doesn't want the attention,
really a low profile star with Luke. So it's like,
I'm just going to go back to this, Dallas is
(26:19):
calling on a d I think the Lakers and the
Mavericks you will hear in the next month something. I
really believe that, And I think you have to take
the phone call and listen again.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You take the phone call no matter what, to see
what kind of things are being offered. The problem is
is like going back to our conversation in the first topic,
which is you lose Anthony Davis, you lose your rent protection,
you lose your elite defense, which then automatically end of discussion.
You can't win a championship unless you're just otherworldly good offensively,
which Lebron and Kyrie. Even with Kyrie and Lebron at
(26:51):
this phase in his career, you're not there. That said,
Kyrie's is actually perfect and Lakers fans, when we discuss this,
they are way too dismissed of Kyrie's talent and the
fact that playing in Los Angeles with a real chance
to win a championship with Lebron, James as someone that
can kind of manage his This is some of the
personality dynamics that play. I actually think it's not to
(27:14):
put it clearly. If I thought you could get Kyrie
by only losing Ruie and still fielding a roster of
six to seven legit rotation players with a couple guys
who can work on the periphery, if I could roll
out Kyrie Irving with Austin Reeves, with Jared Vanderbilt, with
Lebron James and Anthony Davis, I think that solves all
(27:34):
their problems in overnight. They become a much better team.
The problem is is it's just such a long shot
for so many of those things to break right. And again,
like you just start to look around the league. It's
like like I was listening to you this morning when
you were talking with Jason McIntyre about different things that
could fix the Celtics, and one of our guys here
at the volume, mister Rory, he's a big Celtics fan,
(27:56):
text me last night and he's like, dude, who can
we trade Jalen for? Like what are we getting back?
And you start to look around and it's like, well
KD was that guy, But he's not available anymore. None
of these other guys are really moving the needle. You know,
It's funny you look at the It's like, Oh, Jimmy
Butler's killing us, How do we get a guy who
can go to totte with Jimmy Butler? Oh, Nikola Joki
(28:16):
is killing us? How do we get a guy that
can go toe to toete with Nikolajokic. There's like eight
of those dudes in the entire league, and nobody wants
to give them up. So it's like at a certain point,
like sometimes you have a ceiling. It's kind of like
the Embeid hardened pairing. There's a ceiling to that. They're
just is They're not going to They're not going to
(28:37):
go tote. Those guys crumbled under Tatum, the same guy
who's currently crumbling under Jimmy Butler. Like, there's levels to this,
and those top guys they're impossible to replace. You cannot
go toe to toe with them unless you've got another
guy at their level. Lebron is rapidly declining. I don't
know what the answer is. Again, I keep coming back
(28:59):
to eighty. Just has to get better.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well Tomorrow night, Miami with a huge coaching edge probably
finishes off Boston. You know, Brad Stevens highly wanted, recommended
Joe Missoula for the job. So that's that's a much
more difficult firing than most like he was Brad's sort
(29:24):
of his mentor. So that's going to be an awkward situation.
But I will tell you that it happens a lot
more than we think, And it happens all the time
in college sports, where a really good coach leaves or
is forced to leave, or takes a better job, and
you give it to the coordinator and he's just not ready.
(29:45):
I mean, it happens six times a year in college football.
And in fact, when I grew up in the Pacific Northwest,
all four schools did it. So Washington in the seventies
was a dominant college football program. Seventies and eighties, legend leaves,
they give it to the defensive coordinator. Jim Lambright fails,
Ralph Miller. Oregon State, at one point in the seventies
(30:07):
had a top ten basketball program left. They give it
to his assistant, Jimmy Anderson. They never recovered Oregon Chip Kelly,
Mark Helfrich didn't work, Mike Price, and I think it
was Bill Doba at Washington State football didn't work. So
you see this all the time. Joe Mozula is just
not ready. He could be ready in four years. But
(30:28):
it's like it's the Celtics. It's not like he got
a bad team and he could play invisible midweek games.
It's like, oh no, it's Eric Spolstra, the world's best coach,
and they'll play again on national TV. And Boston's such
an outrageously outspoken, in your face media market and I'm
watching it and I'm like, oh, this poor guy. I
(30:49):
mean again, if you're a college coach that's over their skis,
you play on Raycon TV in the South, nobody sees it.
There's seven games on Saturday in your region. Joe Mizzoula
just you can't hide in Boston. It's just it's too
intense a market. You just can't hide. And so I
think they're gonna I don't think they have to make
wholesale changes. I do wish they had somebody that was
(31:13):
a little more aggressive offense, because I think they have
really good defensive players. I think they could find a
point guard that's not gifted off defensively. But somebody who
get you into the offense. They remind me of a
more talented version of the Clippers, Jason, when Paul George
and Kawhi are kind of running it and you're like, Okay,
(31:33):
this is odd. This is not there. This is not
what it's like the wildcat offense in football when you
hiked it to a running back. You were getting yards,
but you're like, this doesn't look right, this is not right.
I've watched the Clippers for three years, and I'm like,
could we get a point guard? I mean, that's why
Westbrook kind of worked for them, like he got them
into their their offense. I feel like Boston a lot
(31:54):
of times Tatum looks at Brown, Brown looks at Smart Smart.
It's more of a defensive player. I think if Boston
needs anything your opinion, I'm interested in somebody to get
him into their offense.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Quicker. So it's interesting, Colin, because we were having a
similar conversation after the Warriors series last year. And you know,
it's funny. Every time I've been watching basketball forever, not
as long as you have, but for a long time,
and every season when it finishes, I always like to
have like a couple of things that I learned. I
actually do a little video at the end of each season,
(32:26):
like of what I learned about the NBA this year
and last year it was like, oh, you know, the
Celtics needed ball handling, they needed ball handling. But one
of the things that I think this season has taught
me is like, there's a difference between aggregate ball handling
and top end ball handling. And we thought that the
Celtics could fix their issues by bringing in another ball
(32:47):
handler right in the form of Malcolm Brogden. But then
you find yourself at the end of the game and
it's like, what are we going to do run our
clutch offense through Malcolm Brogden when Jason Tatum's on the floor,
and it's like, oh, actually, the real problem here is
is Tatum's not as good as Jimmy. That's the real
problem here, and he doesn't have someone that can help
kind of navigate those alpha dog scenarios. And that's where
(33:08):
I think the Missoula thing becomes a problem. I think
that the answer to the Celtics this year and moving
forward is, yes, Jalen Brown's going to be way too expensive, Maxim.
I'm sorry, he's too good to let go you're not
going to get anything worth as nearly as good as him.
In return, I think you've got to run it back
basically with an alpha dog coach. I think we underestimated
emy Udoka's impact last year in the way he helped
(33:32):
Tatum and Brown navigate those scenarios because you can say
one thing, you yes, Boston last year had a lot
of the similar tendencies when it came to sloppiness and
decision making, but those dudes fought every minute when they
were out there. They were one of the most impressive
defenses I had ever seen. Their defensive identity is gone.
(33:54):
They're giving up like ten additional points per hunter possessions
in the half court compared to last year. Defensively, they
are not the same type of psychological entity that they
were last year. And so again, kind of like we
were talking about with Anthony Davis, I was looking down
the list and I'm like, man, and we don't know
the deals. Maybe Brooklyn was like, we don't want Jalen Brown,
(34:15):
but if Kevin Durant was available, like last summer, that
was the move, because then you're bringing in an alpha
dog that can be in a series with Jimmy Butler
and not be scared and command the offense down the
stretch slot Jason Tatum into a supporting role of the
way that he's supposed to, but go down the list
of guys this summer, Like, is Bradley Beal going to
solve their problems? I don't think so. So the reality
(34:35):
is their best bet is Jason Tatum developing as a
ball handler, and I think that can be accelerated by
the right coach, and it needs to be like a
real alpha dog personality. And this is why I keep
coming back to Nick Nurse, and I know he's a
finalist for the Bucks job, and so hopefully Boston becomes
aware of that and jumps in a little sooner. I'm
not the biggest Nick Nurse fan because sometimes I think
(34:57):
he can be a little over aggressive with this scheming
and he's a big, gimmicky, overhelp defense guy, which sometimes
can hurt you in certain situations. But you know, he's
the guy that wrote a book right after he won
a championship and in the book was like criticizing his
own players, and he like he actually is a presence
in the room that will get buy in. Like Missoula
(35:18):
straight up admitted in the postgame presser that he lost
the locker room. He said it, Yeah, I've lost a
connection with these guys, Like it's just not there. You
need somebody that can drive that alpha dog mentality the
same way that Email Yudoka did. I think I think
the move is a coach. And again, like just like
you field calls, someone calls and says, hey, we'll give
(35:39):
you so and so and so and so. For Jaylen Brown,
you field the call and if the right ball handler
is there, Yeah, I like the move, but I just
don't know who that is. And so in that scenario,
you have to go with the most talented roster in
basketball and hope a better coach fixes the problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I mean it's also been in the are you This
example on TV is that when Nick Saban first got
the SEC job, the SEC had some really Tomato can coaches. Now,
Lane Kiffen Kirby Smart, there's like real guys there. This
was a year in which the coaching in the East
(36:18):
was weak. So Tibbs is a culture guy, energy guy,
limitations offensively. Missoula is a kid. Doc Rivers is a
culture guy, not really an adapter a scheme guy. Budenholzer,
the team got old, and I you know, he got
(36:38):
kind of unveiled in some coaching situational late game stuff.
Quinn Snyder great, but got the job in late February.
It was a it was kind of a bad Eastern
Conference here for coaching, and here's Spolstra, and I think
he just took the hatchet out to these guys. He
got a defensive coach, he got a couple culture coaches.
(37:00):
You know, he hit the matchups worked out well, and
I think I think what happened is Milwaukee got really old,
really fast. You saw at the end of the year.
I thought they I thought, like an old team like
Jay Crowder, Joe Ingles, like, oh wow, they can't play fast.
Chris Middleton, Oh he's like the fourth best player and
a good team like it happened like in thirty games.
You're like, oh, these guys aren't getting better. Ingles had surgery.
(37:21):
You're like, he's seven a game. He can't play. And
so I do think I think Miami's I don't think
they're going to return next year. I think they're going
to go after like Damian Lillard. I think they're very
attractive now because some of their young guys. They're undrafted guys.
They're not you can't resign these guys. They're playing completely
over their skis. So I think they'll they'll go out
and get a dame. But I think I think there
are sometimes circumstances, Like I don't think Denver's a circumstantial team,
(37:44):
they're just really good. I think there's some circumstances that
have really worked. Iman Adulka's back with Boston. This is
a very even series. I mean this it's so I think,
like Saban early in the SEC, I think, I think Spolstra,
I kind of know this is like I got, I
got culture coach, sixty one year old coach, rookie coach,
(38:06):
and it all and Lebron's over in the West that
it all sort of worked out well.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You and I've been on this the entire tail end
of the season. Like Spulshre is the best coach in
the NBA. He is the best, yeah, protecting his players
from their own weaknesses. Schematically, he's always several levels above
his opponent in these series, you know, ironically, like he's
pulling rabbits out of hats here man, like he's he's
(38:33):
making something out of nothing. And again, our guy Draymond's like, hey,
don't call them undrafted. Their pros just like everyone else.
I agree, and I agree with. I appreciate the sentiment
of what he's saying, but I'm sorry, but if Caleb
Martin out played Jalen Brown in this series, there's not
a single there's not a single general manager in the
(38:54):
entire NBA that would take Caleb Martin over Jalen Brown.
And that's the that's the exciting part from Miami fan
is like they're going to have more talented rosters in
the next ten years. Spulture's going to be coaching those teams.
The Heat are just going to be around, like they're
just going to be in these fights non stop. But
there's no doubt that that coaching element plays a huge role,
especially when you get deeper into the postseason. I mean,
(39:16):
Mike Budenholzer was unwilling to adjust, completely unwilling to adjust
as m as Jimmy Butler was smoking them. Joe Missoula
was way too late to make any sort of aggressive
adjustment in this particular series. It's given them an advantage.
You know, it's funny with the NBA. To me, it's
so many times, it's about a war of attrition and
like who's kind of left standing at the end of
the day. Jimmy Butler, after losing in the Eastern Conference
(39:38):
finals last year, was being interviewed and he goes, yeah,
we had enough this year. We'll have enough next year.
Except for next year, we're going to get it done.
And at the time he sounded crazy. And here they
are with less talent than last year, and they're going
to go to the NBA Finals. They're going to be
Boston tomorrow because Boston is going to quit. And it's like,
like that's they just happened to stick around while everything
(39:59):
else crumbled around own them, and now they now they're
four wins away from an NBA championship. It's there Miami.
Miami's one of those teams that we can never rule
out in any situation. I don't care if they're in
the back end of the playing tournament that they were,
they were losing in the final three minutes against Chicago
in the second playing game. They were under five hundred
(40:20):
over the last twenty five games of the season. There's
no scenario where we can write Miami off moving forward.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, and I think you know, going into this series,
I thought Boston would win. But I said, I think
Spolstro was gonna win two games. And I also said,
if I have a better coach and the best player,
and then BAM's got to be a top three or
four player, they're going to be. I thought the games
would be competitive. I didn't know Spoe would win all
four games. You know, I'll tell you this, BAM's really
(40:48):
served himself well, he's been. He is so active, jeezu
he is. He's on the floor, he's you know, he's
a little bit like Loke Jokic. He's just around the ball.
He's batting it around, he's volleyballing it around. So they
get Tyler Hero back next year. I think I think
they're they need one more. You know, it sounds crazy
(41:14):
at Jordan Poole thing like they need another. You know,
Damien's better, but you know Damien's small. Damien is going
to give you about sixty five games. You know, Damien's
played high school, college and pro all out West. It'll
be a little different. I feel like, I think I
(41:34):
feel like Boston could be a championship team. You bring
Tyler Hero back, Bam. Jimmy Butler You'll probably keep one
of the younger guys. They just need they need one more,
one more lethal shooter. And I know I people just
keep rolling their eyes at Jordan Pool. I heard it
(41:55):
was on the Ring or I heard a clip from
Doc Rivers son Austin Rivers. He was saying, you know,
I know how you guys. He was talking about Austin Reeves.
He goes. I like him. He does a lot well,
he said, but skill set, he's like Jordan Poole's like crazy,
like crazy talented. And the last couple of games of
(42:17):
that series against the Lakers, he played way more under control.
He took a mid range. I'm they're going to take
calls on him. I am so interested to see where
he goes, because I really do look at Miami and
I think to myself, I've got a star, I've got
length hero coming back. Give me, give me a really
(42:38):
good two. I mean, wouldn't you want to play on
that team? I mean, one of the great things is
you can get your points and your looks in the
regular season. Butler's Butler's got no interest giving you thirty
six points in the regular season, right like Jimmy is
going to compete but he'll in the regular season. You're
going to get some looks. Miami's going to be really
(42:59):
interesting next year.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, they absolutely need to get him a dependable number
two at some point because here's the thing. I think
Denver is going to win in the finals for two reasons.
Denver's better and two. I'm sorry, but as much as
I appreciate and respect Jimmy Butler, he can't alpha dog
Nikola Jokic like that. That's just not going to happen.
I mean, heck, you might not even be able to
do that to Jamal Murray, who's one of the biggest
(43:22):
irrational confidence guys that we have in the league, although
he's backing it up.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
The Volume. Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show.
I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of
the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective understands behind
the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton,
Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green
(44:02):
Show wherever you get your podcasts, only on the Volume
Podcast Network.
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Colin Cowherd
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