Lane Kiffin Bolts For LSU, Cowboys Defense BETTER After Parsons Trade, Ben Johnson Best Young Coach Since McVay

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Daniel Craig returns as Ben Waugh Blank in Wake Up
dead Man, A Knives Out Mystery with an all star
ensemble cast for his most dangerous case yet. When young
priest Judd du Plentasy is sent to assist charismatic fire
Brown Mond senor Jefferson Wicks, it's clear that all is
not well in the Pews. Written and directed by Ryan Johnson,

(00:26):
critics are calling it the sharpest knives Out movie yet.
Watch Wake Up dead Man, A Knives Out Mystery and
select theaters November twenty sixth and on Netflix December twelfth,
rated PG thirteen. All Right, it's always weird doing the
Sunday Show after Thanksgiving because there's like thirty two topics

(00:49):
and nobody really cares about discussing rams Panthers. Do they
not really listen? I think we've Let's just address a
massive college football story that you and I care about.
So college football, what you saw Lane Kiffin do feels

(01:11):
a little different now because of the College Football Playoff.
You used to leave a program, you know, and they
were going to a bowl game. They weren't playing for
a national championship. And I don't think Old Miss was
going to win a Natty. But it wouldn't have shocked
me with Lane Kiffen if they won two or three
games and finished in the top two or three. So
it does feel a little gross, But big picture is

(01:34):
if you think about, if you really think about what happened,
the NCUBA four or five years ago was rigid, and
you went from that, the rigidity of the NCUBLEA to
pure unadulterated HGH infused capitalism and there's no boundaries, and
it's the wild wild West, just like the wild Wild

(01:56):
West in the eighteen hundreds you had territorial governors and
commissioners of conferences. But everybody's in their own self interest.
And so listen, this is harbaughto Michigan, Lane Kiffn to LSU.
It's massive, it'll be controversial, it'll be great for the sport,
and one of the little guys gets burned. I don't

(02:16):
lose sleep on this stuff because I've been watching it
my entire life. But wasn't this bound to happen if
you hired Kiffin?

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah? I just think there's no easy way to leave
a school anymore, you know. I mean these schools now
are paying fifty million dollars for a guy to go
away in the middle of October, so you have lsu
out to poach your coach for the last month and
a half. That's abnormal. You know, these buyouts got so extreme.
Were like you and I kept saying, well, these guys

(02:42):
are safe. Turns out they're not. They're getting bought out
left and right. I also think part of the problem
for Lane is he's a controversial and polarizing figure, and
he's really done a lot to change his image, right
to the documentary that he did. You just look at
him physically, what do you think he's lost thirty pounds
he's politically, he's talked a big game how this place

(03:04):
changed his life, gets them into the playoffs, and then
leaves them for essentially their big brother, who. I think
it's hard. I understand where their fans are mad, but
like I understand both sides. I just think these are
these things are ugly. It's pretty rare. Remember a couple
of years ago when Sabin retired right after the National
Championship Game and Debor just left Washington and it was
a pretty seamless you know, from Washington Alabama because everyone

(03:27):
was done. You're seeing, you know, this cycle all these
Penn State doesn't even have a coach that we can
argue whether they are a top ten five I don't
know where they land, but they could easily steal a
guy in the next couple days, and that could be weird.
Who's to say that it's not a top fifteen program
that they steal a guy from. So it's just it's
a lot different in the NFL. Like you said, there
are regulations, there are rules. The New York Giants can't

(03:50):
steal Sean McVay, but LSU can steal Lane Kiffin. Honestly,
it looked like kind of easily.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well. Yeah, and Rick Patino noted this on social media.
He said, it's a calendar Is that.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Actually Rick Patino? I almost didn't even believe. I thought
it was like a fake account. I didn't realize it
was actually Rick.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, And he said it's a calendar issue. He goes,
I wouldn't build my team to be a number one
seed with a chance to win national championship and you know,
a day before the tournament March madness bail. He said,
you couldn't do that. It's a calendar issue, and college
football allows it for years and years. I was on
my radio show on TV show John, I'm sure at

(04:27):
least once you heard me say this, it's an eight
billion dollar sport with no CEO. It was boxing like
of course, every boxer was out for itself and every promoter,
Bob Aeron and Don King ran boxing, the SEC commissioner
ran the sport. And then you have ESPN and Fox saying, guys,
it's an eight billion dollar industry. We're going to make

(04:49):
this more like pro football. We're going to have like
an AFC and NFC, the SEC in the big ten.
So I don't. I don't. If you are a college
football program and you hire Lane Kiffen and you don't
understand the reality of your calendar and understanding this can happen,
then you're naive. And I can feel for an ole

(05:10):
miss fan, but this is a calendar issue. And I
said last week, aggressive men, if Wall Street did not
have a regulatory board, you would see if you didn't
have regulations at companies, if we didn't have an IRS,
what do you think it would be like for aggressive

(05:31):
men in this country? They would be taking big swings
and doing something, doing many things that felt skeevie and unethical.
So until college football in the NCAA put up boundaries.
I mean we put up some boundaries in the portal.
We put up some boundaries in NIL. There's no boundaries
on coaches leaving.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think what people have a problem with, you know,
it's mainly the Ole miss fanss not like LSU fans
care at all. They're a static is that we have
this team who he has a chance to win a
national championship. I don't necessarily agree. They don't play any defense,
but then this guy kind of plays us. It plays
us would be strong. But as he says in this

(06:10):
outgoing statement that the ad wouldn't let him coach, Well, yeah, Lane,
no school worth their salt that has any respect LSU, Alabama, Georgia,
Ohio State, Texas. It's very understandable why they wouldn't let
you coach. But then you steal Charlie Weiss's kid, who's
with Lane the offensive mastermind. Well this is an offensive

(06:31):
juggernaut as a program right going into this playoffs. Well
I remove Lane and I remove Charlie Weiss. If I
am not like, if I could remove a little emotion
and take a deep breath, I'd go we have no
chance in the playoffs, especially if we get a decent matchup,
because they're going to get dropped in the playoffs. You
are ruining our dream season. I mean it's you know,
in college more than the pros. Right, a bad program

(06:54):
in the NFL. If they get the right quarterback to
right coach, they can immediately be good. The Rams are
a clown show. They getigh, look at them the last
ten years. Right in college, you get the right coach,
you gotta strike while of the irons hot because that
guy's probably gonna leave. But now, I think, you know,
fans would say, well, what the hell's the difference. We're
paying these players, We're giving you money for the coaches,

(07:15):
we're doing everything LSU tried to do, and we're kicking
their ass every year. We beat Georgia last year. Why
do you need to go? And I do think that's
a fair argument that we're gonna learn. Is there a
big difference? And I know you said about I think
you know Lane would probably agree with you. It's the
defensive guys. Like I can get the offensive guys to come.
But for every Walter Nolan that I got last year,
it's gonna be very hit or miss. For if I'm

(07:35):
at LSU, if I'm at Georgia finem at Ohio State,
I could get five or six of those guys. And
then I think the other area that people have a
hard time with is like Nick Saban. You know, Nick,
you fired Lane for causing problems inside your program and
it does feel very and listen, I have a lot
of respect for Jimmy Sexton created this business for nothing
and became what he became. It's not his fault that

(07:57):
academia struggles with negotiating with these guys, and it's a
it's a one sided fight, but it clearly feels we're
in the NFL, there's a lot of pushback if you
want to negotiate with Howie or you want to negotiate
with the forty nine, like, it's not easy. And with
these schools, it just seems like one couple guys have
all this juice and are just playing puppet master within
them in the sport. And that gets back to what

(08:18):
you said, there's no rules, there's no regulations, so Bob
and Don King take over the business they need. DA's
happened because UFC passed them right, because they got a
data white. Well, I think we're still a while, a
while away from college football kind of having that structure though, right,
I mean, it doesn't feel like it's tomorrow coming in. No.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
I mean, listen, if you look at pre Kiffen, Matt
Luke ed or Jeron Houston Nutt, Hugh Freeze cheated like
a you know what. The bottom line, it was a losing,
irrelevant program. If they knew Kiffen was going to burn them,
if they knew it going in then he was going
to do this. They'd still take fifty five and nineteen

(08:57):
relevance and the number one scoring offense country by a
wide margin. They would have signed up for it today.
So I don't have any their last SEC titles nineteen
sixty three. It's an irrelevant program. And Lane may I
watched four miss games the last four this year for

(09:18):
last year. Maybe I'd watched the egg Bowl every year
for a half. Like, I'm sorry, you were an irrelevant program.
Hugh Freeze cheated to make you sort of interesting. But
Nick Saban said he stopped recruiting his last couple of
years in Mississippi because Hugh Freeze was cheating so bad.
Players were getting paid at the end near signing day,

(09:39):
and they were losing him. So I mean, you would
have signed up for fifty five and nineteen when you
had the coaching opening if you knew he was If
I said number one offense, top five program, fifty five
and nineteen, he'll bail on you, you'd a signed up
for it.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
You know, you used to have that statement that the
thing make smart men dumb or women in money. And
I think the hard part is for the program is
that this not really money. Right. Ole miss was paying
him ten million, They were willing to pay him fourteen.
It's almost a you know, a revelation from Lane in
his belief that your program simply isn't as good as LSU, right,

(10:19):
And I think that hurts, and that's where you're getting
it really like you're in the playoffs. But big picture,
you know, I'm the reason. And historically in college basketball
and football, do you lose the coach, you're in major
trouble like the guy that's replacing him. I remember when
he was the off or defensive coordinator, Alabama was not
going well as defensive coordinator, and clearly they were in

(10:40):
a desperate situation. But I think over the next couple
of years, relative to what they've been. If ole Miss
was a stock, you'd probably short them, and you would
probably buy stock in LSU the next couple of years.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Right, yeah, all right, let's talk as we do this.
It's in the fourth quarter. But Buffalo leads going away
against the Pittsburgh Steelers, and Aaron Rodgers got hurt. He
got smoked by Joey Bosa, bloody bridge of his nose

(11:13):
left the game came back. You know, it's funny because
Sean McDermott and Mike Tomlin are both defensive coaches, and
I could make a strong argument that their message has
sort of worn thin, like three points in the first
half for Buffalo making a mistake down near the goal line.

(11:36):
It's like, guys, you got a veteran staff, you got
a veteran quarterback, you got a veteran left tackle. You
can't be making these mistakes. But I do. I look
at Pittsburgh right now, and they have no quarterback for
the future. Aaron looks in cold weather, really old. Aaron's
letting go of that ball John so quickly. I don't

(11:57):
blame him. He doesn't want to get hit. He does
never run game. I thought this was a bad fit.
I said he should go to Minnesota or he should retire.
I never thought, you know, in warm Weather early in
the season, but Mike Comlin's teams I haven't won a
playoff game. I could be wrong. Eight plus years. They're
not a viable franchise. They get really bad at the

(12:17):
end of seasons. I don't know. I mean, I ye,
Buffalo just scored. It's going to be now twenty three
to seven. What do you do with McDermott and what
do we do with Comlin?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Well, I think McDermott's still you know, these next whatever
five six games in the playoffs are going to be
huge form. I mean, as of right now, it's going
to be an uphill battle for them, just assuming that
New England wins on Monday Night to win the division.
They were heavy favorites at the beginning of the year,
not just to win their division, they had the best
betting odds with the Ravens to win the Super Bowl.
I mean, they have one of the best players in

(12:50):
the league. You know, I'd say Josh been a little
up and down this year. Part of that, to me's
on the GM and I think when you look at
these two franchises, you know, Brandon Bean for the Bills
Kean Coleman. It was inactive the last two games. He
was there essentially their first round pick last year, pick
thirty three. Right, they trained had.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
A touchdown today that help he did.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
But I mean it's you're in a position where you're
still like teaching him life lessons a year and a
half in. That's not ideal. I think the Steelers, I've
been texting around the league obviously, Tomlin, I think it's
fair to say you're there seventeen years. Back in the sixties,
they would have said that's a long time, let let
alone modern day the Internet age, so it's unprecedented. I
don't think we're gonna see that very often ever again.

(13:30):
But I think their GM in their front office, you know,
it used to be with Kevin Colbert, the Steelers and
going back to the Bill Coward days, just always had
one of the best rosters in the league, right defensively,
top to bottom. Offensively, they always had multiple piece I
always just had like super reliable people all over the place,
right and then star power. They don't even feel remotely

(13:52):
close to that. I actually gained a lot of respect
for Rogers today. He's gonna be forty two in less
than a month. He's out there with a cast on
his left hand, which that's a hand that used to
brace yourself. He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. He
does not need to be doing this. So I give
him a lot of respect for saying it's not like
he has a lot of equity with this franchise that
he needs to try to earn their respect. So he's trying.

(14:13):
He's given them all they have. But Tomlin takes a
lot of shit. Now I've been saying for a while
it's probably time for a breakup. If you're Mike Toalman,
you go to the Giants, you would be getting a
standing ovation walking into that press conference. But the front
office in the GM, when you look at the team,
Cam Hayward's been there for a decade and a half.
That has nothing to do with this group. TJ. Wat's
been there for ten years. Right. The talent on that

(14:36):
roster and the philosophy of the moves like you're trading
for DK Metcalf, Like he's a number two guys and
you're gonna him a hundred fifty million dollars. Like what
are you guys doing? No position? I'm watching the Bears
make some seventh round running back go for one hundred
and thirty yards with his eyes closed, and you guys
can't find a running back like you guys, you're the
guy you draft in the third round, can't sniff the field?

(14:59):
Your front office?

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Who?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I would say the Steelers for a long, long time,
just they were the most reliable franchise, just doing it
right year in year out, for decade, my entire life.
I look now, I see, like got it. Something's off
kilter there, and maybe the family's getting a lot older,
you know, it's just things change. They're so rich now,
maybe you lose touch a little bit, have the same

(15:20):
chip on your shoulder. But to me, the talent on
the on the rock, and I'd say, listen, it's not
like Buffalo we've talked about. This is some greatly talented
They had injuries today, missing some players, but even when healthier,
I would consider them the Seven Paths.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
No. I mean the Lakers sold it felt very mom
and pop, and then they bring in the Dodgers group
and it already feels they're getting rid of bus family members.
I think would the Roonies ever sell they feel? I
mean that division now has the Brown family, Mom and Pop.
The Rooneys feel outdated. Little mom and Pop. Baltimore's got

(15:57):
excellent ownership and management throughout out Cleveland a bit of
a mess, although I like the coach, I like the GM,
I like the roster actually, but it's just watching this today.
You have two defensive coaches. You know, it's seven three
or ten three and a half, whatever it was, and
it was like, God, there's just nothing creative. I mean,
Buffalo basically, if you look at their game plan, they

(16:20):
just it was pretty clear they were just wanted to
get into a slug fest and they just kind of
figured they would over the course of time. Score it's
twenty points. You can't match us, That's what it felt like.
It almost felt like what Ohio State did against Michigan,
Like that first half. Ohio State was so conservative, and
their take is we got better players, We're gonna win

(16:40):
this game. It's just going to take three and a
half hours to win the football game. So I you know,
I feel like I'm always beating up on the Steelers.
But small market Green Bay is so smart, so cutting
edge offensive coaches do a very good job in the
sport of solving problems in season. I've said this, John

(17:00):
A McVeigh, A Reid a Sean Payton. I think those guys.
Shanahan has done a great job this year solve problems
middle of the season takes a couple of weeks. I
feel like defensive coaches need an off season to solve problems.
Pete Carroll will need an off season, Tomlin McDermott. When
things go sideways, they don't rebound quickly. I mean, you

(17:23):
watch Denver struggles, struggle in their first half offense, then
they play the Chiefs and they get on the board
in the first half and they kind of clean it up.
I mean, Ben Johnson has an identity. There are a
number one seed now Chicago. I mean the defense leads
and takeaways, the offense leads in rushing. There are a
number one seed. These offensive coaches come in. Ben Johnson
has been tweaking this mother every two weeks, like you've

(17:45):
seen improvement. And Pittsburgh Lee, you know, I feel like
they think, like, Okay, you play the season, then the
season's over, and then you take the wrenches out and
you fix it. You gotta fix it every week in
pro football now, the coaching's too smart.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I think also the organization like the way they
view football is the defense can carry us. And I
still believe you need a good defense to win in
college or the pros. But it's an offensive sport. I mean,
didn't save In say this a decade ago when he
hired lang Kiff, and I had to adapt because of
the rules. So you can't even the Texans. I mean,
the Texans have what looks like to be an all

(18:22):
time great defense. I mean, their defense is fantastic, but
if their offense plays like that that, they're not going anywhere,
even if they make the playoffs. And that's the one
thing I will say about the Bills is the FC
does look pretty wide open. I mean, there are a
lot of random teams gonna make it that as long
as you got that quarterback, I think we'd both agree
they would have a chance in every game. If the
pass rushers are healthy and Josh is healthy, they would

(18:44):
have a chance. For the Steelers, I've been saying this
for the month. I mean, clearly they are. They have
been in a free fall for a month. I mean
ever since Flacco beat them on that Thursday night game.
They have not been good. But even did last year,
you say one hundred. But this is even starting earlier
this year, the attrition of the age. Listen, it's just
it's not Tomblin will probably assuming that. I mean they'll

(19:05):
get a divorce one of these days. It is an
organizational thing. And you bring up the Packers, they have
a much better front office like Gudakin's. I got news free.
I know Rogers butted heads with him, but he kind
of was right on that transaction. He's pretty good at
his job, you know, like the power. I don't know
football is quite baseball, but your GM is pretty important
because it's not obviously the quarterback, but it's a lot

(19:27):
of auxiliary moves of you know, backup defensive linemen, who's
your slot receiver, who's your slot corner? You can make
moves in season. You know one thing, you know Howie
has done that. I think a lot of Lions fans
go like, where are trades? Midsis like, you can be
aggressive now in this modern day NFL. So I'd say
the Steelers just kind of ran into age attrition and

(19:48):
just a coach that you know, it's just time. There's
nothing wrong with that. Andy Reid was fired in Philadelphia.
Ask him how that turned out.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
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(22:10):
I want to talk about because the biggest games were
Thursday and Friday in the NFL. I don't think Cleveland
San Francisco is a highlighter. We'll get to that. I
want to talk about Dallas beating Kansas City Chiefs now
six and six, and it's very likely. If you look
at Jacksonville and Houston's record and you start looking at
New England and Buffalo, it's like Kansas City's probably not

(22:31):
making the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
And I think Charger's gonna have eight wins after they
beat the Raiders.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
So I think Kansas City's listen. I said at the
start of the year, I said, Kansas City, the dynasty's over.
They'll win a super Bowl. But the dynasty's over. Once
you start paying quarterbacks four hundred million bucks, you have
to manipulate the cap. You have to let people go.
They had to let Joe Toney go. The old line.
The last several years it feels like it's been patchwork,
and then it gets into later in the season. They
lose somebody to injury, it to mess. Here's the thing

(22:58):
about Dallas. I can't figure out why this is so
hard for people to figure out. I said when they
traded Micah, Jerry Jones is a deal maker. What deal
makers need is flexibility. And if they signed Micah, and
we know this the previous year they were waiting to
they had no flexibility. They couldn't get Derrick Henry for
eight million dollars at the trade deadline. They are a

(23:20):
much better defense without Micah. Why because it allowed them
to get Kenny Clark and Quinn Williams run stoppers. When
they had Micah, they were an atrocious run defense. The
problem with that is you lose time of possession. Dak
sits and watches the game from the sideline. Well, now
with Demarvian over shown getting healthy, they still have electric

(23:45):
athletic ability on the edge. Sam Williams played well, Quinn Williams,
Kenny Clark, Well, now they're still getting quarterback prussures. They're
going to go get an edge, yeah, clowney, they're going
to go get an edge with their first pick in
the draft, which is a edge rich draft. And simultaneously,
Michael was good for Greenpek. But it's the idea that

(24:07):
you win the trade and we lose it. Dallas had
no flexibility. You watch them play now, John, Their pressure's excellent.
You can't run on them. They're healthy, they're athletic. Like
it's like guys sometimes, you know, I mean, it doesn't
matter what the company is. You lose a high profile

(24:28):
person and maybe they were high maintenance, or maybe they
were expensive, or they were temperamental, and they're great somewhere else.
But it allows you to elevate other employees, to show
off other employees, to manage other low maintenance employees. Like
I liked Micah, but it was a lot and edge

(24:50):
rushers are easier to find than Quinn Williams. It just
seems so obvious to me that Micah deal was good
for Dallas too. You get it right, like everybody gets.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
I just think oftentimes in a trade, we want a
loser in a winner, right. I think you look at
the Luca trade. You know, we love when there's a
loser and a winner in a trade. The Bears and
the Panthers, the big trade they made, it looks like
Bryan Poles won that thing. Right, the Bears would like
a redo. Why can't we just have a winner and
a winner. I'm watching Micah Parsons fly around on Thanksgiving Day.

(25:21):
Obviously he's been awesome for the Packers, and they do
not regret doing that at all. The other thing that
someone in the league texted me, do you know where
Jerry also deserves credit? Is I thought he was wrong
for this. I'd be like, you know, I just keep
rolling with McCarthy. He said, you know what, Mike, I'm
not giving you another contract. I'm going to take your
number two, replace him with you, and not skip a beat.

(25:43):
And now you look at McCarthy, who I've been saying,
like I think he'll get a job. Well, the Backers
replaced him with Ease. Haven't skipped a beat, right, I
have not looked back. And now the Cowboys replace McCarthy
and haven't thought twice about it? With Brian Schottenheimer. So,
like Jerry, took a lot of shit. I was very outspoken.
I know you were too. How could you not be
when he hired Brian Schottenhammer. Looks like it's done a

(26:05):
pretty good job, you know, excellent offensive play caller, his
rapport with Dak, a big personality in George Pickens, handled
him perfectly. Weird situations with Micah Parsons that I mean
he had nothing to do with that gets thrown on him.
Handle that thing perfectly. And is there how many teams
are hotter than Dallas right now? The Texans? I mean
they Dallas looks. I mean, that has to be one

(26:28):
of the better two week stretches when you go Monday night,
Sunday and Thursday night of like Jerry's last twenty years. Yes,
I mean they absolutely destroy the Raiders. They historically come
back on the Eagles, and then they essentially kind of
end the Chiefs little, you know, Mini Die. I don't
think the Chiefs are done big picture like you say,
but they're not making the playoffs this year because of Dallas,

(26:51):
and really I'll play them like you couldn't stop them
on offense. And I just think Jerry, I think he
puts himself out there a lot. He's got a little
Lane Kiffin quality. So anytime you do that, you know,
most owners don't say a peep. Most owners do not
interview or ever publicly say anything. Maybe once a year,
maybe at the owners meetings. Most gms don't even talk

(27:12):
during the season. Jerry's talking twice a week. He's doing
the radio interview, and he's talking postgame and he's he
was right. And here's the other thing you got to
say about Dallas. They've kind of been well run for
a little while now, like they've had good rosters. Now
they have not done well in the playoffs. But like
the McCarthy era, why they didn't do it well in
the playoffs was not because the front office. Dak kind

(27:33):
of shit the bed.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
He played bad. Baltimore's exquisitely run. They haven't been very
good in the playoffs recently. They had the Flacco year, right,
they had the Trent dil for a year. Baltimore's lost
a lot of big playoff games. They've lost it to
New England or a Buffalo or a Kansas City. They're
unbelievably well run. It's hard to win EFAN playoff games. Right,
Dak was losing to I mean, go look at when

(27:54):
Dak and Dallas were losing a lot of playoff games. Well,
you had the Seattle team, San Francisco harball team, and
you have Aaron Rodgers in his prime, and yeah, it's
hard to win playoff games. Okay, I want to talk
about this game that happened on Thanksgiving. Green Bay thirty one,
Detroit twenty one. Two big takeaways. One's an easy one again,

(28:17):
Matt Lafleur. The Packers offense looked a little broken. Matt Lafleur.
This is what offensive coaches do. Fix shit in the
middle of a season, and all of a sudden, Jordan
Love four touchdowns, no picks, one hundred and twenty four
passer rating, go to Detroit and win, Jordan Love eighteen
to thirty. This is what I've said. This Green Bay

(28:40):
offense was broken about three weeks ago, and he fixed it.
The Pittsburgh has been broken for eight years. They can't
fix it. So they got better offensive line play. But
I think the bigger issue is something like Lane Kiffin leaves,
They're going to hire somebody in the building, mistake, Jim
Harbaugh leaves, they give it to somebody in the build.
You watch Michigan, they weren't even competitive. I mean they

(29:02):
is no ingenuity at all with that offense. So Ben
Johnson's the most talked about OC in the league for
three years. He leaves and Dan Campbell loyal guy, you know,
very relatable, almost a working class feel to him, like
he's a guys guy. Hires a guy in the building.

(29:25):
Last year year before, unbelievable third down team, fourth down team.
They're now with that offensive line, those weapons, Jimi or Gibbs,
seventeenth best in the league on third down. That's coaching.
That's not personnel. That's not golf, that's not amor on
Saint Brown or Gibbs. I'll go back to it. It's

(29:46):
the Colin was right. Colin was wrong. I said, when
you lose an icon Horbaugh, you know Lane Kiffin's offense
that's number one in the country by a mile. You
lose Ben Johnson, you don't go in the building. You
go on a domestic If McVey retired tomorrow for the Rams,
you don't give it to a coordinator. If Shanahan left,

(30:07):
you don't give it to a coordinator. I think Detroit
it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Let's say you, well, I think Detroit seasons on the
line come Thursday against the Cowboys, and I don't know
about you, but I like the Cowboys same and I
think once Detroit loses on Thursday, I mean their defense
is really falling apart. Offense isn't quite the same, but
defensively they clearly have missed on some picks their scheme.
I don't know what's going on, but they are. They've
been getting shredded now the second half of last year

(30:35):
with the injuries, and they kind of looked the same
thing all over again. They lose to Dallas Colin on Thursday,
which I think most people with the brain are gonna
pick the Cowboys. I think the NFC playoffs are pretty
much set and the Bears and the forty nine Ers
are in, right The Rams, Seattle are in, the Packers
are in. Let's assume Tampa wins the division they're in,

(30:58):
and you know, the Eagles would have to have a
full on collapse, but the Eagles are probably in that
that's your playoffs. So you know the Bears and the
Niners right now, I mean the Bears technically are the
number one seed, which I don't know about you, but
after Thursday Night, Like, what Mike Rabel's doing is incredible.
I got no problem every once in a while, like
Brett fav Barry Sanders, you share the MVP. I think
those guys share the Coach of the year. What those

(31:19):
guys are doing where those two franchises have been. Frabel
didn't take over the Bill Belichick twenty eighteen team. I mean,
they had been bad for a while and the Bears
were a joke.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Listen, Frabel's still on a rebuild. I mean I would
argue they're not finished yet. They need another seven draft picks,
they needed another two acquisitions because Drake may still in
the rookie contract. New England's not even a complete team.
I mean, don't just think about this. For those who
defend Sean McDermott, how long did it take with Josh Allen?

(31:50):
You still never quite sure what you get weekend to weekend,
half to half. With their offense, Mike Frables turned it around.
I'd say Buffalo's got at least as good or better
personnel wise. Yeah, I Vrabel's an unbelievable coach. I think
I look at Detroit, They're still going to be fine
because I think the GM Brad Holmes is so good.

(32:12):
I do like Campbell, but Campbell Nick Sirianni similarly are
not known as great scheme guys. I think Campbell's better
than Sirianni. But when you miss on a coordinator higher offensively,
it's punitive. It's not for McVeigh, Shanahan, Peyton, Andy Reid.
They move off those guys. Guys like Sirianni and guys

(32:37):
like Dan Campbell are much more coordinator dependent.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
I think one thing Sirianni has going for him is
Howie's aggression is really second to none. So let's just
say that they know go eleven and six and get
bounced in the first round. He'll do fifty things to
try to improve where I think Brad Holmes the shit
he takes from his fan bases. He can be a
little conservative. It's like your moves right, and I think

(33:01):
that's fair. And I think it's very easy for a
GM to always look big picture, and I think Howie
would say it's easier for me to think more short term.
Now with a couple of rings on my fingers, right,
I have more equity, so I can be more aggressivele
look at the Rams, Like the Rams will always be
in the mix. They got two picks that Atlanta Falcons
pick if you tell me, they flip pick eleven for

(33:21):
some incredible for Max Crosby, you know, just whoever insert
the star player get ready because they will not hesitate
to do that, right. But it's easier for Sean and
Less to do that because they got a lot of
equity in the you know, with the franchise. So I
think I think there are a lot of different variers
variables in football. You're very dependent on your GM as

(33:42):
your coach and that working relationship. It's why I'm like, listen,
I'm not selling my chief stock big picture, like they'll
be fine. Like they need a little bit of a
reset year. And guess what, Drafting eighteenth in every round
will be a little easier for vech and Ady than
thirty second, so they can go maybe in the first round.
All of a sudden, you're like, whoa, the Chiefs are
now picking seven because they trade next year's first and
go from eighteen to seven to get best player X. Right,

(34:05):
and they can do things like that. So the other
thing that's on full display this year, and you really
saw it on Thanksgiving with Ben Johnson is obviously football.
The power of a quarterback speaks for itself, but I
still think that the coach is equally, if not more important.
And what Ben Johnson is doing in Chicago is that
was remarkable that that game. He's the Midwest Kyle Shanahan.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business. Yes, Whiskey Business,
brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey
of the Colin Coward Podcast. Chicago twenty four, Philadelphia fifteen.
Right now, Chicago's number one and rushing, number one in
the NFC North, number one in the NFC, number one
in takeaways. That's not just the roster, and he still
has a quarterback who I think is a work in

(34:50):
progress who but again this goes back to Nick Seriani
is scheme dependent. Philadelphia has been spiraling this entire season.
Offensively has been an uneven mess. He can't fix it
because he doesn't have the right oc Ben Johnson. We

(35:11):
don't even think the quarterback's a great fit. We didn't
think going into this season, Hugh. This defense, it's a
magnet for turnovers.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Nobody thought that they're number one of the NFL in takeaways.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
We didn't even like their secondary. Jalen Johnson got hurt.
We were like, they're screwed. No, they nshan Wright. They
find all these guys now they like lead the NFL.
Their secondary is just pansy picking it off one handed catches.
So I mean, I think I wrote this down during
the game that Ben Johnson's the best young head coaching

(35:44):
higher since McVeigh. That's what it feels like, like Shanahan
was a great Higher. But Shanahan's been like winning season,
losing season, winning season, losing seasons in San Francisco always
had a heartbeat because it's got good ownership. The Rams
were with Jeff Fisher unwatchable, two double digit wins. I

(36:06):
still think Caleb's completing fifty eight and a half percent
of his throws, I still think this has so much
more room to grow offensively.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
See I would say he's a combination of the two
because Shanahan was much more heralded as an offensive coordinator
right with Atlanta. Where McVeigh was coaching in Washington, they
weren't winning as many games. He was like this shooting
star within the league, but everyone when he hired him
was thirty one, but that first year they were immediately
awesome and in the playoffs, chu like what after Jared

(36:36):
Goff honestly looked like he was going to be out
of the league his rookie year. If I would have
told you that going into December that the Bears would
be the NFC's top seed with their quarterback throwing for
under sixty percent of a completion percentage, not a soul
would have believed you. Right, that's the thing. They are
winning all these games. Their quarterback's pretty inaccurate. Now, the

(36:58):
touchdown throw that he made was like that was USC
Oklahoma Heisman Trophy. He still has some remarkable highlight plays,
but he still misses a ton of just like random
out routes overthrowing guys. And it gets back to the
thing that Shanahan did and McVeigh did this early too,
because he had gurly he would just run the ball
unlimited runs, just as two running backs had forty carries.

(37:21):
In that game where you watched the other night against
the Panthers, Canalis ric o'doudle he had six carries. It's like,
I know, the guy had like nine hundred yards coming
into the game. It's middle of October, or middle of November.
What are you doing? Bet Johnson can't even relate. Shanahan
can't relate to that. They will just keep giving young
McVeigh until he got Stafford will just hand it off,
handed off, handed off. They're your quarterback's best friend, and

(37:43):
it makes the game so much easier on Caleb, and
then you can use Caleb's legs. But the running game
that the scheme, I mean Vic Fangio's making five six
million dollars a year. I mean they got Jorge Davis
first round pick, Jalen Carter first round, picked all their linebackers.
I mean, they got really good players up front, and
they had no clue what was coming. It felt like,

(38:04):
you know sometimes when you watch like a Navy, you know,
coaches always talking, hey, whenever you play one of those
service academies, it's hard to practice for him because you
know the different misdirection and they're chop blocking you. The
Eagles were just all they didn't know where. It was
like they were playing the wing tea and you could
tell early on You're like, this is a pretty special
game plan here from Ben Jones, He's I've been blown away.

(38:25):
And I always say, like going from a coordinator job
to a head coach. Haven't seen it firsthand. When I
was in Philly, Sean McDermott was our defensive coordinator. Andy
Ree was the head coach. When someone got in trouble,
big Dom walked to Andy's office, not Sean McDermott's. So
as a coordinator, you just you're not dealing with so
many other things in the building. Besides, I'm not even
talking football. And clearly he's able to handle the pressure

(38:47):
of this city, the divisions were. He's now beating really
good teams, right, It's like, okay, who he's beating the
Giants last couple of weeks, like that Steeler game, even
if they end up nine to eight, that was a
real win. And obviously the Eagles on the in Philadelphia
a short week with Philly just coming off that loss.
I mean it's to just I mean they worked them.
I mean that was they kicked their ass. That was

(39:10):
honestly one of those situations where you went, am I
kind of out on Philly because something's off. It does
feel a little bit not quite as bad. But remember
a couple of years ago when they free fell something.
You can't have a working situation with aj and Jalen
having it be that public, that palpable, even if like well,
on the field, we just put our head downs. Eventually

(39:30):
that stuff carries over to other people and creates some
sort of rift.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Right. No, And the other thing is Greg co cell
Ohas he's truth serum. Greg co sell watches film. He
doesn't really have strong opinions based on anything other than film,
and he always says this, The Philadelphia pass game is
really very simple. It's not hard to defend. They just
have great athletes and their throws Jalen Hurts can't make

(39:56):
because he can't see. So that's why this offense is
so uneven. Barkley Sha Kwan, Barkley's not getting these run gaps.
It becomes very Jalen Hurts dependent. Well, that's a limited offense.
Saquon Barkley's humm and now it's second and three. Yeah,
the offense is better, but you put Jalen Hurts into
have to throw situations. It's a simple offense. He doesn't

(40:19):
see some stuff. I mean, he's better than Tua because
he's more athletic, he's tougher, but there's limitations. And I
also think we go back to Nick Siriani when he
got the job. I had two people, I just say,
what do you think? And they're like, he's not ready
to be a head coach. He needs to get great coordinators. Well,
he got Shane Steiken, and he didn't let Stike in

(40:42):
call plays. Remember that, you do. They were awful, then
he gave it up. Then they were fine. Now he
hires Brian Johnson, it's a disaster. Than he hires this
his new guy, Kevin what's the last name Petula but
Kevin Petula. Kevin Betula obviously struggling with either relationships or

(41:04):
play calling. There's nothing Nick can do. Nick's almost got
an aggressive defensive coordinator mentality. He's not remotely close to
a scheme guy. So to me, they have problems they
can't solve in season. Most great offensive coaches can solve
their shit in season. I don't think Sirianni only solved
it with Shane Stiken when he just handed over the

(41:27):
play calling. So what are they gonna do? Do we
really think this team? I mean, john this has been
a nine week, eleven week, twelve week issue. This isn't
going away.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
The one thing they got going for him is I
did this after the Bears game, they still got the Raiders,
the Commanders, and the Commanders on the schedule, and even
next week they play the Chargers on Monday Night, who
just have a lot of injuries and just are a
beatable you know, eight and fourteen. But to me, if
you lose to the Chargers, they do feel fickle enough

(41:59):
to lose. Danny know, you could get beat to a
random Commander game. I mean, we saw it happen a
couple of years ago. So I would say next week,
Monday Night football in Los Angeles, which I would guess
we'll have a lot of Eagles fans there kind of
must win, especially if the Cowboys, because you know, all
the Cowboys don't have enough, you know, there's not enough
space for them to catch up. Well, all of a sudden,

(42:20):
you beat the Lions and the hottest team in the league.
The Eagles lose on Monday Night, then they got a
short week against the Raiders, and all of a sudden,
this pressure and it starts getting weird, and these guys,
it's gonna be hard for aj. I mean, he's already
not keeping his mouth shut, you know, during the week
he started, He's like, what do I even care anymore.
I'm not gonna be on this team next year. And

(42:40):
the thing in Philly, you know, they started. I knew
going into that game. I'm like, if this thing is
like seven to six or something in the first half,
that crowd is gonna be on edge because they already
come in with apprehension that we're not actually that good,
Like I know, we're the defending champs, but we feel
way off. And then when you start getting physically shoved
round because one thing you'd say, Philly has they had

(43:02):
that stretch when Fanjo got a couple of players back,
He's like, you got one of the best defense in
the league. And then you start getting worked on defense.
You go, well, we're gonna have problems if we're not
holding you, you know, to ten thirteen points, we're gonna
be in for it. And then all of a sudden
they're up ten to three, and you go the Eagles team,
I mean, if it wasn't I mean they fumble a
tush push. I don't know they are in the story

(43:24):
of the game obviously was Ben Johnson, but I do
think that Kevin. But here's the problem. So you're gonna
this season, you go eleven and six you lose in
the first round, you fire your offensive coordinator. You just
bringing another guy and you have you know, it's Jalen's
whatever tenth offensive coordinator ten years or whatever the staff
will be. It's like and you just hope you get
a Kellen Moore or Shane Sikein, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Well, you're saving on Sirianni's contract, so and the Jalen
Hurts steels very team friendly. So you probably go spend
three million dollars and you go you outbid people for
the best coordinator. When you want to enjoy life simple
or pleasures reached. For Green River Whiskey, whether a dry
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(44:08):
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Green River Whiskey dot com and discover a legend in
a bottle. Today San Francisco forty nine ers twenty six,
Cleveland eight, the forty nine ers nine and four heading
into the latest buy in the Kyle Shanahan era. I

(44:30):
think it's a great time for a buy. These late
buys are perfect. I have said this. I think the
coaching staff of the Year is San Francisco to be
nine and four. That's a good division. Even going to
Arizona has historically been tough for all the teams in
that division, always been tough, even as wonky and weird

(44:51):
and strangely owned and quarterbacked in coach. I know everybody
wants to talk about Shadu or you know, they had
two hundred and fifty three yards of total offense. That's
about what the Niners had. You know, Christian McCaffrey twenty carries,
four catches. Brock Purty was more than solid. You know,
Cleveland butchered a punt that helped a lot. But you know,

(45:14):
my take was San Francisco this year had been very
bad after wins, and I know you can roll your
eyes at Carolina, but they thumped them. And Carolina beat
the Rams today and Cleveland won last week, So you
can say what you want, but going to Cleveland winning
bad weather not built for brock Purty, I was really impressed.

(45:34):
I feel like I have to reevaluate. I bet the
Niners for third. Now Seattle won and the Rams are
gonna win the division. Do you think San Francisco is
a playoff team? Oh?

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, I mean I think the playoffs are set now,
like I said, I think all three teams in the
West are clearly in ram Seattle to Niners. And I
think pretty much if the Lions loose, Thursday's the Bears
and the Packers, and that's in some more. Those are
your three wild cards. To me, the Niners today was
an organization organizational win. I mean, the Browns are such
a cluster, you know what, I mean, what an embarrassment

(46:05):
of a franchise. It really And the forty nine Ers
are the complete opposite. They're playing. Their front seven is
like a UFL team. I mean, all there. They showed
the all the guys on in reserve, I mean, Fred
Warner and Nick Bosa may combined like fifty million dollars.
They're two of Fred's one of the best defensive players
in the league. Ohos look like yeah, but most of
early this season looked fantastic. Before he tores ACL their

(46:27):
first round pick they had, they were six to eleven.
They had the eleventh pick was the kid from Georgia
towards ACL. He's six ft two hundred and eighty pounds.
I mean, so we were moving through. They're playing with
Cleveland Ferrell, who they let walk a couple of years
was on a practice squad and he's flying around Sack
and shador. Meanwhile, you got Stefanski and Barry have this
quarterback controversy with two guys they've drafted the third and

(46:49):
the fifth round, and the forty nine ers are just
clowning them in a like you said, brock Purty has
not been good in weather even to day. He's wearing
something on his elbow that he heard a couple of
years ago against the Eagles because in cold weather it
kind of stiffens up. I'm like, did he hurt his elbow? No,
that's just a holdover from his previous injury. It's like Jesus,
you know. But in Miles Garrett's coming off a game

(47:11):
where he has twenty five sacks against the Raiders, so
you're like, this guy, Jim Schwartz, the stat was he
was eight and one against Kyle Shanahan is a defensive
coordinator head coach against Kyle.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Sh It was my second favorite bet. I had San
Francisco winning twenty four to twenty. My second favorite bet
of the day was Cleveland plus five and a half,
six points. I thought it was going to be a
dog fight.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah, I just think franchises. And this is what I
respect about Ben Johnson is you're either a tough coacher
or not. And not every guy is Jim Harbaugh or
Mike Frable like an actual tough guy, Dan Campbell. It's
about the way you practice. To knock on Lincoln Riley,
It's like, how do you practice? And you know you
can be an offensive guy and be a tough minded
guy by the way you practice. And the forty nine Ers,

(47:53):
I've been going to their practice for years, like it's
just a tough, old school franchise and this was a
year where honestly they should have been Like last year,
Mac Jones has to start seven eight games, pretty est
turf tow. Look at the Bengals. They lose Burrow for
a large portion of the season, and their whole franchise
just melts down. Like part of this is it's you're

(48:16):
more than just one. This is a team game like
you see today, Like you know it's not Shador, it's
not Miles Garrett. You're a team like you're kind of
the special teams unit. You're dependent on everybody, And I
just think you just saw the forty nine Ers, or
we talk about this a lot during the combine. You're like,
you can just tell these teams have no shot, and
this gap now is it's probably like ten teams verse twenty.

(48:39):
And you got the Browns who spend all this money,
who got a couple Ivy League gms and coaches. You
just like there are always like four or five wins.
It's like, I don't know, maybe it's the owner the
forty nine ers since they've gotten Kyle. Really beside the
one year last year, like they've they've been pretty consistent
now and this year how they're doing it now. They
benefit from an easier schedule. But man, I mean they

(49:02):
beat Seattle and they beat the Rams this year.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I mean, listen, it's no I this has been if
this has been the year of coaching Mike Vrabel, Ben Johnson,
Shanahan and Robert Sala. You've seen by the way Stafford
didn't practice before the season. This is the best Rams team.
Despite today's loss, Mcvei's done an unbelievable job. So Rams

(49:28):
lost twenty eight thirty one. Carolina beat him thirty one
to twenty eight. Basically Rams had three turnovers, Carolina none.
Bryce Young you know it's fifteen for twenty didn't make
any mistakes Stafford, whose number one target now appears to
be Devonte Adams, over Pooka at least in the end zone.
The regression I thought the Rams lost today. I was

(49:49):
I was texting Jason mcintyren like, you can't play seventeen
eighteen weeks without just having stepping in it, And it
was just all those turnovers coming into today. I thought,
I think Stafford had thirty touchdowns and two picks. That's
like me starting the year eighteen and one on my
blazing five picks. You're gonna do one and fours back
to back, like regression of the mean, don't. I don't

(50:12):
take much from it. I think the Rams have it
sewed up, and I think the Rams defense didn't play great.
And I also think the Carolina team we saw today
and I watched almost every snap of this game, they're
six and six. Now, that's the team I bet on
getting a touchdown at San Francisco. But San Francisco and
Sala handcuffed Bryce Young against a healthy defense. Today, Bryce

(50:34):
Young moved the ball. There were three for three on
fourth down. I mean, Caroline is more than functional.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Well, one thing they screwed up last week against the
Niners is they did not run the ball today. I'm
looking right now. Hubbard and Dowdell had a combined thirty
five carries and they ran for one hundred and sixty yards,
and Hubbard had a touchdown on a wheel route which
was essentially a run play. I mean, you get caught
the ball behind the line scrimmage. So clearly, like I

(51:02):
will say this about Dave Canalis and the Panthers, they
are respectable franchise. Now you know that their quarterback can
be very hit or miss. Yeah, but you know Stafford
threw the pick six today, he had the fumble which
I'm pretty sure that drive led to another touchdown. So
it's like they just kind of unraveled, you could tell.
I always give people a little grace of long travel

(51:24):
if you're a West Coast team playing that early morning kickoff. Especially.
You looked up today and even my wife was like
on the main TV in the living room, the Bucks
game was on and she was trying to find the
Niner game. She's like, well, she started laughing because in
Tampa's eighty two degrees and people were sweating, Yet every
other game that was outside was like freezing cold, thirty
degrees in Carolina it was a torrential downpour and some wind,

(51:47):
like the elements. Really you saw it in college football
the last couple of weeks. Starting to see it in
the NFL Thanksgiving night, Like even in Baltimore it was
thirty five degrees. I was telling my mom, it's like,
I know, it doesn't look really cold. Thirty five degrees
in an East with twenty mile an hour wins is frigid.
Can't feel your fingers, you can't feel your feet. No
different in that Philly game was you know in the
thirties with wind that's really really cold. So you start

(52:10):
getting these elements. The rams are human beings. How could
they take the Panthers that seriously? Based off the last week?
Short week, they probably don't have the best week of practice.
All of a sudden, you find yourself not playing a
great game and you're losing on the road, and then
like this, if you win, you know, twelve and five
or thirteen and four, one or two of those losses

(52:32):
are gonna be like I probably like that one back
the Patriots lost Week one to the Raiders, Like you're
just gonna have some weird outcomes. I wouldn't sell my
stock on the Rams, but the one curve ball always
for them. And I'm listen, I've been saying Stafford MVP.
He is capable every once in a while just having
a whoa, you know, yeah, hitting some guys inside, just
throwing pick sixes. And if he plays like shit, I mean,

(52:54):
they'll just lose. And he was for his standard. I
mean that was a really really bad, obviously off game.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Well, I'm looking this up. In their three losses for
the Rams, they're vulnerable to the pass. In their three losses,
opposing quarterbacks went eight touchdowns, no pick, sixty eight percent
completion percentage in one hundred and seventeen passer rating. That's
Jalen Hurts, Mac Jones and Bryce Young not exactly. Brady
Mahomes are manning. So this is the Rams do not have.

(53:22):
They have Kobe Durant, who's a really really interesting player.
Emmanuel Forbes they got from Washington. I don't even know
how they got him, Waiver wire some hell of I know,
and he's actually pretty good. They don't have a great secondary.
Their safeties are good, but I do think if they
if you can block their front, you can pick on

(53:43):
them a little bit. Here's an interesting thought. Think about this.
Eight teams had plus eleven hundred odds or better to
win the Super Bowl. The number one seeds this year
are the Patriots and the Bears. They won nine games
combined last year. Coming into the year, the consensus was Mahomes, Burrow,
Lamar Josh with the top four quarterbacks. It looks like

(54:08):
today we're not sure if Lamar, Burrow, and Mahomes make
the playoffs. Just just think about that. If I would
have gone out and said Patriots and Bears are gonna
win their to bit, they're gonna be the number one seas,
you'd be like, that's the craziest hot take I've ever
heard of my life. Folks, that's the NFL. That's what

(54:28):
it is. By the way, Lamar, Burrow, Mahomes, and Allen,
you're paying three to four hundred million for a quarterback,
you have to have sacrifices on the rest of the roster.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
What if I would have told you when you wake
up on Black Friday that the you know, late August,
I would have said, the Cowboys and the Chiefs will
have the same number of wins. When you wake up
on Black Friday, there's not a soul that would have
believed you. And you know, college football is kind of
you know, there's definitely way more parody with the transfer
portal in the NIL. The NFL had kind of become

(54:56):
top heavy these last couple of years, right, It was
really the Chiefs trying to fit off the Bills in
the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
The NFC was the forty nine Ers have kind of dominated,
the Eagles have kind of dominated. It's been two or
three teams now, I mean, you could make a case
for six seven teams in the NFC. I'm done saying
the Bears have no chance. They just have some going
for them. Their coaches really good, their defense, creeds the
Packers on any given day can look incredible. The forty

(55:22):
nine ers have good coaching.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Seattle, look at this, John, What does Chicago do run
the football? You think in January when it's nine degrees
and blowing sideways and you coming in the NFC and
you're like, I'm Matt Stafford, Really, Matt Stafford, nine degrees
blowing sideways, take Devonte Adams out of the game, and Puka,

(55:44):
it's a run game.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Even if the Packers end up getting them. You know,
two of these next three weeks. And let's say the
Bears are a wild card team. Who's to say that
that translates on the road. They couldn't go to Seattle
in a rainstorm and run it forty five times and
just win a game fifteen to thirteen. He's clearly comfortable
playing like that, right, and his runs, it's like, well
they just have one. No, they were running all sorts
of plays and their quarterback can scramble. So listen Seattle.

(56:10):
The wild card with them is you know, after that
Rams game, you just I would feel much more confident
if I had unequivocal like confidence in the quarterback. But
he's just a little bit of a wild card to
have a stinker.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Well, they won twenty six nothing today and Donald didn't
play well. You almost can't count the game because they
were starting a rookie quarterback for Minnesota. But Sam Darnold
today had one of those games where he was out
of rhythm, passes were getting knocked down. They went twenty
six to nothing. It was not pretty. It was very
close through three quarters. And the only reason I mean
that was a classic example where Brian Flores put the

(56:44):
heat on Sam and he got out of rhythm and
looked bad.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Well, because what does Minnesota have. They have an NFL
playoff level defensive coordinator, a playoff level defensive scheme Like
that's I have a lot of respect for Flores because again,
these are human beings. You know, if you hear the
defensive unit and you start getting to mid late November
and their quarterback situation is what it is, how you
stay focused Like he's those guys are still playing their

(57:08):
ass off with the court. The quarterback today through one
of the worst picks you'll ever see, and in fairness,
he has no business playing. But it's like Minnesota is
a great example of like they have incredible coaching in
their quarterback play, don't. I don't watch much Titans football anymore,
but could it can't be much. It's got to be
the worst in the league.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Right for the record, go look at the mock drafts. Okay,
Minnesota is too good to get a top seven or
eight pick. Dante More is probably gonna stay at Oregon
where Phil Knight can write him a four million dollar
check and he can keep getting snaps and he loves it,
and they won a bunch of games. Mendoza is going high.

(57:49):
I don't know if anybody else is the top twelve talent.
I really don't. I don't. I think Ty Simpson at
Alabama's a second rounder, maybe late first. I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Be seems high to me.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
He's the closer third fourth. Yeah. Yeah, So I like
Jade Mayava late second, early third. Okay, the USC kid.
So my takeaway on this draft is you think I'm crazy.
I would go get Mac Jones. You may not have
you won't have to give up a first round pick
because you do have to pay him a little bit.
But I mean, if you're Minnesota, you can't go through

(58:22):
this again. You have two good players justin Jefferson Jordan Addison.
I mean, I'm sorry, you have a left tackle that's
already had a major injured injury. How long are you
going to be able to keep Brian Flores? If you're Minnesota,
I'm watching today and I'm like JJ McCarthy, forget the inefficiency.
He can't stay healthy.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, you have to go get somebody.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I would go get Mac Jones, I really would. I
think I think cal Kyle Shanahan. You're gonna have to
give up probably a second round pick, but you can
keep your first. But I don't know. I just I
look at what Minnesota's doing, and I know that Kevin O'Connell,
Sean McVay, Sean Payton, those guys are not the Steelers.
They're just not gonna wait until July to figure out

(59:04):
their quarterback situation.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, listen, they had faith in a guy that you know.
I'm with you. I think everyone's talking about his poor
metrics that are comparable to JaMarcus Russell. His biggest issue
right now is he missed all of last season where
he couldn't have played if they wanted, And now he's
got three different injuries, right, and some of them, I
mean the longest ankle injury in humanity, and then listen, concussions.

(59:26):
Sometimes guys fly back on the plane and clearly he's out.
But you know, it does feel a lot of people
go conspiracy theory and be like, is he getting soft
benched all the time, which is kind of believable because
how poorly he's playing, and you just can't function with
the high priced team with high expectations with poor quarterback
play and the development. It's easy to learn on the

(59:47):
fly when my team sucks and we have no expectations, right,
Jackson Dart once it was clear the Giants weren't going anywhere.
You can just figure it out. The Vikings won fourteen
games last year and we're sixteen minutes away from the
number one overall seat. So even if they were going
to take step back, I think it's very fair to go, well, minimum,
we should win nine or ten games and be in
the mix to get a wild card spot. And they're
not even competitive in these games anymore because they can't

(01:00:09):
they can't get first downs. So yeah, I think the
power that the forty nine ers are gonna have they
signed him to a two year, seven million dollar contract.
You've been in more negotiations than me, but I've always
heard the most powerful words or no, And the one
thing the forty nine ers can keep saying is Nope,
we're good. We'll keep him because his value to the
Niners is pretty high. He's saved Mac Jones, saved the
Niners season. So it's like, okay, Minnesota, Like, to me,

(01:00:31):
a second round wouldn't be worth it. Maybe second a player,
maybe a fourth, Like I'm gonna need a lot because
his value to my franchise given how little money he
makes and how I know how well he can play
in my offense. He's worth more to me than he
is to everyone else, And clearly he'd be worth a
lot to you because you could function. So I think
the forty nine ers have a ton of leverage with
a backup quarterback who like, we'll see if party can

(01:00:53):
just make the rest of the year. You know, even
this year, he's wearing this brace on his arm like
he's he's not exactly built like Josh Allen. So I
think we got a long way to go. And if
I'm the forty nine ers, it would take a lot
for me to just send him your way to be
your starting quarterback and save you. So the JJ McCarthy pick,
it's got a chance to be an Alzheimer because with

(01:01:16):
sometimes like Pennix, I was high on panis. Clearly he
wasn't as good as I thought. And then also the injuries.
I had people texting me that like listen John that
never liked him. The problem was is our doctors were
very uneasy with the amount of injuries he had in college,
and then he hurts himself again the same injury had
multiple times in college, Like he was off boards, where

(01:01:37):
JJ was just a polarizing prospect, right when you play
the scouting meetings at Alabama and their heyday, like Mac Jones,
he's playing with four first round wide receivers and really
every team he's playing beside maybe one, it's such an
advantage to Alabama. Michigan. Even I saw Urban Meyer on
Big Fox on the pregame show, was like, listen, they

(01:01:59):
went over each of the Michigan Ohio State games the
last four years. He said, the one game that I
can't really hold against Ohio State was the game the
year that they won the national championship. Michigan had the
best team in the country. No one would argue that,
and they should have won that game. That's what jij
won a game against Penn State where they didn't throw
it in the second half. That's we used to talk
you know a lot about Jimmy Garoppolo. Remember they won
a NFC championship game. He didn't even attemptable. That's unheard of.

(01:02:22):
That that's not the way people played football anymore. So,
I don't know. They took a swing and it looks
like it blew up in their face really quick, Like
it blew up in their face fast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Yeah, And Minnesota's always been a like the Kansas City Chiefs,
a really solid, well run team that's always either in
the playoffs or on the precipice of getting into the playoffs.
They've won with you know, they've won with a lot
of different quarterbacks and a lot of different styles. But
I don't know, I think they would go big game hunting.

(01:02:54):
I mean, I'll just say this, if I was an
older quarterback. Aaron's too old now and Stafford's not going anywhere.
Kirk Cousins feels washed. But if I was an older
quarterback or a veteran quarterback, like I've said it on
this podcast and on my show, I'm Joe Burrow. Can
you force your way out? I mean, honestly, it's I
look at Joe Burrow sometimes and I'm like, oh, I

(01:03:15):
feel so That's why I always I mean, Carson Palmer
and Joe Burrow are two of the greatest quarterback prototypical
talents in the last thirty years. One got to a
Super Bowl. What if Carson Palmer ends up with Andy Reid?
What if Joe Burrow ends up with a Harbaugh Like,

(01:03:36):
I feel so bad. Even though Joe Burrow looked good
the other night. I think Minnesota is in a bind
and I don't know what you do. Mac Jones feels
like the best answer in a dilemma that I'm not
sure has an easy solution.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
The problem for Joe is that owner's kind of proven
to be pretty stubborn, and his answers always know, ask Carson,
tru's out. Carson is you know, the next Kyle Shanahan
or Sean just dominating high school football in California at
Santa Margarita. I can't imagine being a high school player
being like, yeah, I know more than my coach, and
it turns out I'm playing for Carson Palmer. I mean,
those kids got pretty lucky. Turns out Carson Palmer. I mean,

(01:04:13):
I don't know how he's made a lot of money,
but if he really wanted to dip his tow into
doing this, he'd be a big time coach really quick.
In college football, you know the Trojans. If Lincoln were
ever leave, I mean I'd be all over that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
By the way, Trojans won nine and three. If they
win a bowl game, they go ten and three with
a number one recruiting class. It doesn't feel right, but
you know it's hard to argue. I still feel four
years in, I don't trust their defense or their special
teams on the road in a big game, but they
won so and they have an unbelievable recruiting class coming in. Okay, well,

(01:04:52):
Lane Kiffin is the new coach of LSU. It feels big.
Ohio State looks like the best team in the country,
played conservatively still one going away. And I'll say this,
I said this on a brief podcast yesterday. I text
two people on Julian saying and I said, footwork, release,

(01:05:12):
and accuracy. He looks at twenty years old, Julian saying,
looks like a guide book on how to set, throw,
and deliver the ball. If he was available this year
in the draft, knowing that he's twenty and he's not
ready to play, and you had if he was available
in the draft, and you're like Dallas, and you're like,

(01:05:35):
we don't need somebody for two years, and Dallas has
two number one picks, Go get in Rams with your
first pick. Rams, although they may need somebody quickly. I
don't think I'm being hyperbolic here. I think Julian saying, Dude,
his completion percentage was over seventy five. It's snowing it's
on the road. It's the second half after that early pick.

(01:05:57):
That kid and the tight ends for this year are
really okay. They're running back. Jackson's pretty good. But this
is not Ohio State. I thought was better offensively last year.
They're better defensively this year. I could be crazy on this,
but I think we're looking potentially. I text somebody that
knows him well and has followed him from high school.
They're like, he is Stafford keeps it simple, totally focused,

(01:06:20):
good dude. Teammates love him. Literally, came out of the womb.
Let it rip ball comes out easily, seamlessly, accuracy, accurately.
That kid blows me away.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I mean, I would say that the experience watching
that game, we're watching the two quarterbacks beyond the polar
opposite side. I mean, Brot Bryce. There's no disputing his talents,
like his physical gifts. He's got a long way to
go to play quarterback, you know, and you watch, you
know saying does benefit I mean Jeremiah Smith one of
the best, you know, college players we've potentially ever seen

(01:06:53):
in the position. Tate's pretty damn good. They're offensive, just
that they've been pretty dial that offense now for a while,
I give Patricia a lot of credit. I mean, this
guy had been a lifelong NFL guy, specifically in New England,
right left for a little bit in Detroit, but to
go to college, and you know, in the pros, think

(01:07:13):
how many guys from High Tower to mccordy, these guys
he had been around them their thirty thirty two, like
they're old that he just knows exactly what they can handle.
And I get Ohio State's getting the cream of the crop,
but defensively that he is pretty seamless transition. It's not
as easy. You don't get as much time with the kids.
You know, clearly Patricia's you know, he's a rocket scientist

(01:07:34):
to begin with, so he's pretty sharp coming from what
he's used to in New England to be able to
transition to college. I've been blown away by how good
he's been. And I could be a skeptic of Ohio State,
but I give Ryan Daye a lot of credit for
that higher I don't think there was much carryover, but
it's not like those guys knew each other, like had
worked on similar staffs. It would have been easy for
Matt two to go with Bill to unc to go

(01:07:55):
to you know, go to Ohio State. Get away from Bill.
He's really kind of pretty much muscle flex by Matt
Patricia this year of like, you know, I'm pretty good
at this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
For the record, they brought in Vrabel to be a
coach for a while. Chip Kelly and Matt Patricia. It
tells you a little bit about Ohio State's reach and
kind of the respect that has in college football where
you can a lot of these college programs would call
an NFL coach. Yeah, I'm not doing that nonsense. I mean,
Chip Kelly left a head coaching job to go to
Ohio State. Hey and Ray Ryan Day are buddies forever,

(01:08:29):
but it's Ohio State. I'll say this in past coverage,
I'm not sure I've ever seen a secondary that good.
There's no windows and nobody's opening. And this is a
This isn't your typical Michigan team the last ten years.
This team has real stars wide receiver, hard Boss teams
did not. They were tight end, running back, oh line,
They didn't have great receiving, not deep receiving. This Michigan team,

(01:08:51):
marsh they got real players. There's nobody open like nobody open.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I also thought on Friday Night, you know one thing
a lot of these young guys have, you know, even Shador,
I mean, the guy takes a lot of shit. He
gets hit all the time. A lot of these young
guys are pretty mentally tough, you know, And I do
wonder if growing up in the social media age, they're
just used to more noise. Arch could have melted this season.
It was getting pretty ugly. He was playing bad. I

(01:09:17):
can imagine in the insular bubble in Austin. It was
pretty negative around the program. And I just thought it
was a pretty cool moment to seeing his dad cheer
them on that place, rocking him taking text A and
M hadn't lost, right, that's a big game, and he
he made some I mean that run he had for
a touchdown, he threw that touchdown pass in the back

(01:09:37):
of the end zone. They just they kind of kicked
their ass in the second half. I just thought that
was a cool moment for you know, these guys. Even
That's why I wouldn't bet against Bryce Underwood. These guys
are kind of used to the way they've grown up.
If you're a big five star, the way people are
talking about you, you know, it's not just the little
newspaper article. Like kids that I grew up with in
the nineties, Like these guys are used to a lot

(01:09:58):
of noise. They're kind of unfazed because I Yeah, I
think a lot of kids that my era would have
melted like an ice cube if arch Manning all the
negativity surrounding me. And he's kind of just held his
head high and kept swinging. So I do you earn
my respect on Friday night?

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Yeah? I think listening to my kids, my son, my daughter,
and my step kids is I think a lot of
what's on the internet, it either melts you or you
just think it's funny as hell. And I think arch
Manning's got really smart parents and he's a really good kid,
and I think he sees it as folly. Like you know,

(01:10:34):
there was one article about him. It was so bad.
It was by the guy who created a dead Spin.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Called him the worst prospect of all time or.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Whatever, or the biggest bust of all time. It's like, dude,
you spent too much time in New York. Do you
follow college football recruiting? If there's four or five star
quarterbacks annually to aur whiffs every year, like total whiffs?
I could give you. I mean, in Southern California alone,
USC's last ten five star signings like have just not
played at all, done anything or transferred or so like

(01:11:04):
it was just such a bad article and it's like,
give me a just don't write it. He's a freshman,
he's a manning. There's a lot of pressure. By the way,
we now though, we now know that arch Manning opened
up against arguably the best college defense in a decade.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Well, look at Dante Moore two years ago at UCLA
for Chip. I mean, his freshman year couldn't have gone
much worse. He looked like this is not gonna work out.
Two years later, he's one of the best players in
college football. So I'm guilty of this, you know, I
think now because these guys are getting paid and there's
just i mean, arts are so much hype on him.
Your expectations are pretty high. It's pretty hard. These are

(01:11:38):
difficult spots. It's there are more people watching college football
now than ever. There's a lot of money on the line,
there's a lot going on, and these guys that are
able to kind of battle through it. I mean, Dante
Moore is a good example, kind of put his head
down want to be a backup. He's gonna end up
if he comes back to Oregon. I mean there's probably
a fifty fifty shot he's the number one pick in
twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
All Right, New England at home, Drake May number one seed,
Vrabel Coach of the Year candidate, minus seven against the
New York Giants. Listen, I saw the Niners a week
ago at home, feel big and flex. I think this
is an opportunity. This is a standalone game for Mike
Rabel and Drake May. They've done some one o'clock window stuff.

(01:12:21):
I mean for a number one seed John, They're not
getting a lot of play nationally. They feel like a
regional story. They're the dunkin Donuts of the NFL. They're
huge in the New England area. This is a flex
moment for them. I'm gonna take New England to win
and cover.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
I will say this about the Mike Kafka led Giants
these last couple of weeks. They have been very frisky
against the Packers two weeks ago. Last week they easily
could have beaten the Lions. So this is a lot
of points. You know, even bad teams on these primetime
games late in the season. It's kind of their Super Bowl.
I'm gonna take the Giants with the points. I just
think the these primetime games with bad teams who actually

(01:12:57):
have a little momentum can just be pretty risky. So
I'm with you the I think the Patriots win the game,
but that's a lot of points.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Jackson Dart's supposed to play yep. John Middlecoff, former NFL
Scout three and out to his podcast, Nice work, buddy,
see you

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
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