January 26, 2024 • 33 mins
Chris Mannix joined Jerry Ferrara on the Knicks Morning Brew and hashed out why Knicks fans failed Knicks guard Jalen Brunson by not voting for enough to be an starter for the eastern conference in next months all star game
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, special bonus episode of the podcast for your listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
You know that. Earlier this week, I.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Went in on Knicks fans for the lack of support
in the fan voting for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I thought it was pathetic.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I thought a fan base as passionate as New York's
could have done better. And it turns out I was right.
When the All Star voting and the All Star starters
was revealed on Thursday, Jalen Brunson missed out on a
starting spot because the All Star vote didn't go his way.
(00:40):
Damian Lillard is starting in the All Star Game. He
and Jalen Brunson had identical scores by how the NBA
scores it with the fan voting, the player voting, and
the media voting. But the tie breaker is the fan voting,
and Damian Lillard clobber Jalen Brunson by more than seven
hundred thousand vote. So I name checked the Knicks fans,
(01:02):
and I named checked Jerry Ferrara, actor, huge Knicks fan,
one of my favorite people in this business, and Jerry,
not surprisingly took exception to it came back at me
on social media. We texted a bunch about it over
the last couple of days, and Jerry invited me on
his show nixt Morning Brew, which you can see on
YouTube a few days a week, to discuss this and
(01:25):
kind of hash it out about whether or not Knicks
fans had let Jalen Brunson down. So I decided to
hop on there Friday morning. What you're about to hear
is the audio of our debate did Knicks fans let
Jalen Brunson down? Here's me and Jerry Ferrara getting into it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
What's up, Chris? How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's good to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
What was it one, two, three, four of the reasons
that Jalen Brunson is not an All Star starter this year?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
So before we get go, no, for the record, you
voted because you are media.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You voted for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So this isn't a personal you you like Brunson, you're
a fan, you voted for him.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I think Jalen Brunson had, you know, outside of Tyre's
Halliburton has had the second most impactful year as a guard.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I gave him the edge.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Over Donovan Mitchell, who would have been my third choice,
but I think he played like ten less games than Brunson,
which was a bit of a difference maker for me.
Lillard is still Lillard, but I think Brunson's clearly had
a better first half of the season.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So yeah, Jalen Brunson was my guy.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So let's get into this because you know, I've obviously
we know each other for a long time. I'm a
fan of yours and we know you're a Celtics fan.
We're not going to say that that bleeds into the
why you decided to clobber Knicks fans? How is the
how is Jalen Brunson not getting enough of the fan
vote on Nick fans? Because what I want to say
(02:57):
to you is I hit you with the popularity contests
all that, and you don't want to hear it. And
I have some facts in issues I'd love to get
your take on in the past that maybe shows an
example for what I'm saying. So when you said Nick
fans reaches far and wide, what the f does that mean? Like,
are we supposed to am I supposed to get Ben
Stiller and Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld and go shoot
(03:19):
PSA's about why we should all go vote for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
What do you mean by Knicks fans reaches far and wide.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
No, that wasn't what I was referring to.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was referring to the fact that, outside of perhaps
the Lakers, I think the Knicks have one of the
bigger national fan bases. I think there's more interest in
the Knicks nationally than really outside the Lake.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Look the Knicks playing the gutter.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
For a long time, Chris. They took away the Christmas
game away from the Knicks. They took the Christmas Day
game away.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Have you seen the numbers of national TV games? They
played twenty five national TV games this year. So there's play, right, Okay,
but there's plenty exposure for the next Let's not act
like the Knicks of this quirky upstart of a franchise
right like they are.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I don't think that the second most I think the
I think your Celtics are probably the second most covered
talked about UH franchise. They've been in finals games, Eastern
Conference Finals. You made the point of on text like, well,
Jalen Brown, how does Jalen Brown have so many votes?
We've been watching Jalen Brown in the playoffs in Eastern
Conference finals in finals we talked about this contract, which
(04:28):
was the biggest ever for a year he's gotten.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
He's not a house house household name been talking about
Jaylen Brown for a long time now, way longer than
Jalen Brunson, who's been overlooked at every single step of
his career nationally media wise.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean, you can't really say that when he finished
what did he finish second in the media vote? Like
you can't kill now till now, okay, till okay, but
he was till now, he was properly he was properly feted,
feeded in uh by the media in this boat.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Where he was not respected was by the fans.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Can we just before we go any further, can we
just stipulate that the reason Jalen Brunson is not an
All Star starter is because of the fan vote.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
We can stipulate that, and we can also stipulate that
the fan vote being responsible for fifty percent of the
actual reason why people are starters is a ridiculous way
to conduct an actual who deserves the spot competition?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Jerry that there's no good way to do it. It used
to be one hundred percent of the fan vote. Now
they did fifty. I think it's a fan.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Next year.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I used to go go and think what locker where
you have to get the cards and punch the votes
like I've been a part of the voting process since
i was ten years old?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Or but hold on, we'll stipulate if Jalen Brunson did
better in the fan vote, if he had passed Damian
Lillard in the fan vote, he would be the All
Star starter.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now, my issue with you, Jerry, My issue with you
is that, well, it's a couple of things. One, you
have created this reality that Jalen Brunston was somehow millions
of votes behind the leaders in the vote getting category,
and that there was no way behind dam Is in
(06:12):
the grand scheme of things. That is a small number
for Knicks fans. How many Knicks fans watch MSG network
every single night? How many Knicks fans roll into Madison
Square Garden every single night? Jerry, this is not an election.
You're not only allowed to vote once. You can go
on your laptop or on your phone. This isn't the
(06:34):
nineteen nineties where you had to go into foot locker
and punch a ballot and submit it that way. All
Knicks fans have to do, or had to do, was
to go onto a website and spend thirty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I clocked it one time.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I've done thirty five seconds vote. You've done it, thirty
five seconds voting for Jalen Brunton, And they didn't do it,
not and mass and I don't understand the dichotomy of
all this because Knicks fans are lunatics. You are all nuts,
like what I've told you this over text. One of
my best friends is a Knicks fan, and he goes
(07:09):
to half the Knicks games. He goes to road games.
He was at the sixer game recently in Philly. He
went to Dallas for the game. I have a picture
in my phone of this guy in La yelling at
Leon Rose a couple of years ago because he was
sitting a few rows behind him because he didn't like
the moves that they were making. You Knicks fans organized
and mass to go after Candace Parker when she degraded
(07:32):
your favorite player on social media.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yet you can't seem to find it within.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yourself to spend thirty five seconds voting for this guy
once or twice a week. So when I put it
all on Knicks fans. I'm doing that because it was
only a seven hundred thousand vote gap that Knicks fans,
given just their local fan base, could have made up
in a New York minute.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
See this is where we clash because only seven hundred thousand.
That's almost double the total amount of votes that he got.
So you're talking about seven hundred thousand votes. I can't
even get fifty people to show up to a fucking
birthday party, and you're trying to say we should organize
to get seven hundred thousand more votes from Nick fans only.
So I ask you this because what you're saying is,
(08:17):
you know, how did Dame get those votes? And how
in twenty twenty one, okay, with the Brooklyn Nets, let's
talk about the fandom.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Maybe not even of seven hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
And as we all saw Knicks versus Nets last night,
their best player said that was a bummer.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It is to have ninety five percent Nick fans.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
How in twenty twenty one was Kevin Durant number one
in votes? Kyrie Irving, who was not pull up it
in New York in twenty twenty one, let alone the
most of the rest of the country, was number one
in backcourt votes. James Harden not the favorite Brooklyn player
of all time?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Number three? Are we saying the Brooklyn net New Yorkers.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Got them there to be the number one vote getter
in the entire Eastern Conference?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Of course, not happen.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
How did they get that many votes?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
The names that you just mentioned are national and global
brands that have been national and global brands.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For some time.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Again, I harken back to the original point of I
can't believe you just said a cake of fifty people
to go to a party. That's people getting people to
actually show up. I'm talking about these guys who are
watching this stream right now. Many of them who didn't vote,
did not vote sitting on their phone or laptop and
pressing a button. Those guys you mentioned got their support
(09:34):
because they have years of building a brand that fans
have become attached to. You. What I'm arguing is that
Knicks fans, with an enormous local fan base who watch
games by the millions, who are as supportive of this
team as any fan base in the NBA, they could.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Have made up the difference. You could have come up
with seven hundred thousand. Jerry quote going on for six weeks.
Two more things, Two more things.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Number One, Damian Lillard, top seventy five NBA player of
all time who has his own game time. He has
more streams on Spotify in his hip hop career than
most up and coming rappers. He has his own shoe deal,
which I have one of his shoes. You're gonna say
that Damian. Maybe he's not Kevin Durant level brand. He's
a bigger name than Kyrie Irving. We know Kyrie Irving
(10:24):
for a lot of different reasons. So in terms of
who you more likely to vote for, Damian Lillard is
a huge By the way, Damian Lillard deserves it. The
Bucks have this weird thing going on because they had
to fire their coach and the vibes aren't good.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
They're still thirty and thirteen, and.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
When you put Dame and Brunson's numbers side by side,
they're almost identical. But I think Brunson being the number
one player on his team and Dame being probably I
mean the two because of Giannis is maybe where you
make the argument.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't look at it as like a major loss.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That Lillard made the All Star starting lineup over and
I don't look at it. It's seven hundred thousand votes.
You're talking like that's nothing. If you're seventy thousand. If
it's nothing, it's Jerry. You only have one point two
million total. You're asking for like seventy percent more. I'm sorry,
I'm yelling. You're asking for like seventy percent more votes
(11:16):
than he got already. It's not done by It's not
a local voting system. Chris as big. The New York
market that you're talking about is the biggest in the world.
Has been in the gutter. No national TV games. We
can't get free agents, we can't get Nick saying all that.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Come on, I'm not on Nick fans.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
It's not it's all on Nick fans.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
That's crazy. I'm better than that man. No, please, Jerry
all Knicks fans. Jerry, your fans don't vote, like when.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Your buddy doesn't vote. You're based on your one friend.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
No vote, No, no, no, here's listen to me. Here's an example.
When you're pal Allen Han. My good friend Alan Han
subtweeted my video. Uh the other day. We were both
acting back and forth scrolling through the replies, and the
replies were exactly what you would think they were, where
Knicks fans are like, no big deal. Many of them
(12:09):
were like, wait, how do you vote? We don't care
about All Star. We care about winning a championship.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Or I did too, and I don't think Alan understood
debating about the apathy.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The apathy of Knicks fans when it comes to All
Star voting is shocking.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And if you think players don't care about this, Jerry
your I didn't think they care.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I'm sure is bitterly disappointed that he is to be No,
but he's not going to be the All Star starter.
And the reason he's not the starter is because he
didn't get enough votes from his fan base.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
His fan base did not vote.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Enough that that that argument does not hold up if
it was a local vote, like if you're only allowed
to vote, like hey, if if if you want to
vote for Dame, you have to be registered in Milwaukee,
and if you want to vote for Giannis you have
to be If he was a local vote where you
could only vote in your state, it's.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
It is a global universal.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Do you think people globally know fully about Jalen Brunson.
There's people in the national media who don't watch the
Nick Games that have no clue what's going on with them.
They don't watch Nick's Hornets on a Sunday afternoon. They
just say, oh, yeah, Brunson had a twenty eight and five.
That was awesome, great game, Nicks beat the Hornets. Oh wow,
big deal. So you're blaming strictly that you think just
the Nick fans couldn't get in there. I'm trying to say,
(13:28):
it's a it's a d. And now look every year
it's getting better. Last year he should have been an
All Star.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He wasn't.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
This year he's gonna he got snubb last year. This
year he will be an All Star, not a starter,
snubbed again, hopefully Masol and gay. Next year, Jalen Brunson
will be starting in the All Star Game because people, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
You will, they wanna make a bet on that. We
want to make a bet, We'll make a bet.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well, yes, if he has a yes, I don't believe
there's going to be the numbers are there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Repeat this kind of year? He will be starting next
year because people.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Know now they're learning now, Jerry, Jerry, I can't I
can't with you with this one, because how again, just
put it in give me a number.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How many Knicks fans watch a game every single night.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Millions, and those people could have easily made up the difference.
It was seven hundred thousand votes. They could have made
the difference. One thing for you. Let me ask you this.
One of the leading vote getters Jerry was Shay Gildas
Alexander and Oklahomas.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Does Shay have some worldwide national fan base that I
don't know about. He has spent the last five and
a half years, six years playing in Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Seems talked about the media for a year and a half. Dude,
I'm talking about the fan vote.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I'm talking about the fan vote.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Two.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Does he?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, then maybe the next do a better job with
outreach in trying to get their guys, uh some more attention?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Does he?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But he does not have this brand that would engender
himself to fans.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Nashly, you know what?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And I wish the disagree.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I wish the NBA did this.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But I would bet every nickel in my pocket that
the overwhelming number of votes that Shay Gilders Alexander got
came from Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I believe that people in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Would you make the same part, Okay off that point.
Would you make the same bet that Damian Liewler's votes
came from Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
No, because he's nude in Milwaukee. They could have come
from Portland, they could.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Have gone the Mitchells from Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But again, he's got a couple of cities. He's been
popular in their Probably.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Brunton was popular in Dallas, Ish.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Not that popular. I mean, that's not compared Jalen Brunce.
I'm just saying, Jerry, Nick, there's so many of you.
There's so many of you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Jerry, Why won't you you.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You fans that will storm into the Barclays Center to
watch the Knicks play against the Nets, who will travel
all over the country to watch your team. Why is
it so hard for every one of you every day
to go online and vote for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Why is that so difficult? I can't wrap my.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Headle of an NBA voting problem, not a Nick skip
Runt problem is problem. Look at the number of votes.
There's x amount of votes every year, Chris. There's people
in every fan base that are never going to vote,
whether it's because of their age, or they don't give
a shit, or they're too young. Every fan base there's
people who will not vote. They just don't participate in
(16:20):
voting for the All Star Game. They don't care enough.
That's every fan base, not Nicks. That's your even your
Boston Celtics, who had a remarkable vote for their players.
They almost had five starters. For crying out loud, there's
a percentage this national fans. If we're talking about who's
more likely to get votes based on name brand value,
(16:41):
which is what the voting system is for this particular
All Star Game. Yeah, I think Jalen Brown a lot
more people internationally and domestically know who he is being
that we watched them in finals and Eastern Conference Finals,
and like I said, we talked about the highest paid
contract of all time. Because a lot of media talk
about the Celtics, they're one of you mentioned the Knicks
might be the second after. I think it's the Lakers
(17:03):
and Celtics in terms of who gets talked about the
most because we haven't had a lot of Knick conversations
until the last two or three years.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Let's be honest, we have.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It, Jerry, but this is our disconnect that you think
that Jalen Brunson needs a bigger profile to get more
of the outside New York vote. Yeah, argument, which I
can actually agree with that. Yeah, I think my argument
is some crazy argument. Well, my argument is it doesn't
matter the amount of Do you think that one what
(17:32):
do you wind up with one point two million total
votes something like that?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Roughly?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Do you think that's do you think.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Given the Knicks fan base, Jalen Brunson getting one point
two million votes over like six weeks is a good number.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
You have X amount of people who are gonna vote,
Maybe you can cross over until maybe you can cross
over intil like, hey, there's you know what, we added
fifty thousand new voters this year, not for Knicks fans,
just in general for NBA all start voting period of
people who will vote versus people who will not. That's
an NBA outreach voting issue that they need to deal with.
(18:05):
Some people just don't care or don't even know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
How to do outreach voting issue. That's the Knicks. There
are cities and markets, Jerry, Jerry, I have numbers backing
me up, like Shae Gilder Alexander huge numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Tyree's house.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
You're wrong, you know you're wrong about that conversation. Wait
time out you think that Shay's numbers, Shay's votes primarily
came from the OKAC fan base and those millions.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Of people, and same thing with Tyre Sliburton.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Then we need to release the data. We need to
release the data. I've already asked, because I honestly, I
think you would. I think you would literally say, let's
not talk about this voting stuff anymore because.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You realized the voting isn't it's not a voting.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Voting was a problem back in the day when like
Zaza Pachulia was getting all these votes from like Georgia.
It's still it still is not a problem. Your problem,
which you just won't accept. You can't wrap around. I
can't hold on, hold on. You can't wrap your head
around this fact that Knicks fans gave Jalen Brunson an
embarrassingly low vote tuttle. It was an embarrassingly low vote
(19:12):
tuttle that cost him a spot on the All Star Game.
These are facts. If he got more votes, he would
be an All Star. If Knicks fans galvanized in the
same way they galvanized to do everything else involved with
the New York Nicks, including going to games and attacking
Candace Parker, this guy would be the all Star starter.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Fact a couple of things there.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Number one, you haven't even factored in social media to
this conversation, which is interesting, Which is one of the
issues I had with our last com argument, which was
about the NBA two K League, where you just shun
that off as something stupid and why are they doing
it when you have to be button quick? Yeah, and
it's in year seven and it's changed like hundreds of kids' lives.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Who I don't do that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love the kids for it, I just don't.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm just saying it worked. But you haven't even put
social media.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Into play as a little graphic of maybe we could
track how people's followings are.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know, Damian Loward has over ten.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Million followers on Instagram, so maybe that gives you a
little taste of who's a little more popular.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And secondly, how many?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Why Why was kat Why was Carmelo Anthony voted on
so widely by I guess only Knick fans because only
local people vote for their people.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Why was Carmelo Anthony when.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
He was already starting to slip production wise, and the
Knicks we're losing getting hammered hammered draft lottery team. Why
was Carlo Anthony always like number one, two or three
of voting.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Carmelo is in the same boat as Kevin Durant and
Kyrie Irving, as James Harden is that they are national brands.
They are bigger than that. Again, we're not we're not
disagreeing on this.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You're putting Damian Loward in that conversation though, and who's
starting Damian Lilly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He is a national brand. We're not disagreeing with that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
We're disagreeing on the fact that you think the Knicks
fans that they couldn't have done better like.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
You think I think, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I led off with, I led off with and I've
said this to you on text multiple times, and I
led off this conversation with we did oh a better
turnout for bruntson I don't think it would have been
the turnout like you're saying, I don't think you would
have finished with three million votes if we did a
lot the vote campaign.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
What not? Listen, man, You're just you're like, why not?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Jerry?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
It's not this is an NBA All Stars start. I'm
not trying to pooh pooh that this is for an NBA.
We're not talking about like all NBA where guys actually
get paid off of that stuff with incentives.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Whoa we're talking about Hold on, First of all, I
don't know that to be true.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I don't know the details of Jalen Brunt's contract, but.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Very often not brunts in particularly in general, player's numbers
dictated by all NBA.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You want to talk about, but you want to talk
about money, JA Like, Look, whatever comes to stuff like
sneaker deals, endorsements, uh, everything outside of basketball. A guy's
popularity factors into that. You know how much a guy
might make in a sneaker dear, how much a guy
might make an endorse some deal. So, if Jalen Brunston
got the full throat and support of Knicks fans, it
(22:13):
did get those three million votes that are so hard
to come up with according to.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
You, Yeah, if here's a number one vote at er
in the Eastern Conference, Okay, that's all you're asking for,
the number one vote at er in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You just said, millions of Knicks fans watch games every
single night. Why can't millions of Knicks fans vote? I
don't I don't understand this that votes.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
That's an NBA outreach problem. Again, that's an NBA outreach problem.
There's people who have never voted and will never vote.
Why is it number the presidency?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
This is people?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Why is it an NBA thing? Why? Why? On?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I don't I don't watch every MSG broadcast. I kind
of toggle back and forth between road and away.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
So why is that Nick to do? What do you
expect the Knicks to do? To do that four times
a game, say vote Jalen Brunton four times? Again? Think
they do? You don't think they do.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I don't think they do it four times a game.
I would, I'd be pushing it hard. This was hear
do it a lot and on social.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I think they've done it.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They've done it quite often on social. I've posted on
social about it. They I've posted quite often about it.
I think they I think they did their outreach as
they were willing to do. Also, running an organization trying
to win games, and.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Those things are mutually exclusive, Like, come on, you can't
do it. You think that Leon Rose is handling the
social department?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Come on, I just would love to hear your genius
plan of how to get three million people three million
votes for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Let's hear it. Let's hear the golden plan of how
to do that.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Because it's so easy to get New Yorkers to vote
three million times for Brunson, had to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's my problem.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I don't understand why Knicks fans are so apathetic about this.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm not this Knick fans, buddy. It's not just Nick fans,
but Knicks fans apathy in all right, marketing Knicks.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Fan local fan base, how many local fan base is
outnumber Nick the Knicks. Maybe, the Lakers, maybe, but they're
actually more of a national brand than the Knicks. I
think locally, local centric. Yeah, the Knicks have the strongest
fan base of them all. So it is a Knicks
problem because the apathy there is worse because this was
(24:13):
a humiliatingly low vote total, humiliatingly low Virgia.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
That is so dramatic, dude, that is dramatic. And I
think you're guilty of Knicks for Clicks in the first degree,
you know, humiliatingly low. Wait, wait, humiliatingly low the video.
I look at you, Knicks, I'm gonna clabber you. That humiliating,
humiliating as Brunson humiliated right now after destroying the Nuggets
(24:38):
last night, and every Nick humiliated shearing his prey. Who's humiliated,
then I'm not. I don't feel humiliating.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
The vote total is Humiliatingly, the vote total was humiliating.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Are there anyone in New York with the Knicks? And
I think the fan I don't think there's any fans
or Nick players who are.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Humiliated, but they're not humiliated. The vote total are are?
It was a little so it could have been better.
You could have left, that could have been better.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Nick. The whole Knicks for clicks thing is kind of
a red herring sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
No, not as someone that writes digitally.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The Nis are not.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
They don't click as well as you might think.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Really who so who plays? It's still just Lebron It's.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Really the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Frankly, anything about the Lakers tend to click more than
nothing else.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So who's your number? Well click? Don't understand, But Chris,
we're in the second biggest market.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You would think that the Knicks would get a lot
of traction if you put out a story.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
There's interesting, But you seem to have the people that
say Nicks for Clicks framed the conversation like if I
write one story about the struggles of our No.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
No, you're coming after Knick fans. Dude, come on, you
came specifically, you come me with the first video and
then we started chatting, which was great and I thought
it was funny. And then you kinma casing me with
the second video, and then you got a little like
personal not personal, but you're like, I'm gonna crush you
Nick fan, Like you're not crushing us, Dude, You're not.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I don't have not. I don't think.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I don't think after last night too, there's no Knick
fans are walking around like, man, we let our boy down.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I don't think that's happening.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Did they did let their boy down? Okay, they did
so let Jalen Brents him down. If they had voted
he'd be an All Stars. The All Star started so simple.
We could agree that this is not he would be
an All Star starter.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
This is not a local vote and it never has been.
And that's why you can't explain away Dame Lillard winning
the vote and Donovan Mitchell higher and Trey Young, even
who's had not a great season and the Hawks are
not good and I'm glad you didn't vote for him
as a starter, thankfully.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Uh, but he's still up there and votes. Why that
people in Atlanta just like spamming that vote. But we
gotta get a boy in. We gotta get a has
been in TV tour for the last five years.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Trey Young is a great example, right. Trey Young absolutely
has the broad fan base. Kids grow up wanted to
play like Trey Young because he was kind of a
micro version of stuff, kind of that same style of play.
So he has a broad national fan base for sure.
The Atlanta fan base is virtually non existent, like there is.
It is one of the I'm trying to struggle by
the word for it because I want to like, there's
(26:59):
the the fans that vote down there, but they are
not anywhere near as strong as the Knicks fan base.
So my belief on on Trey Young versus Brunson is
that the local fan vote from New York should have
at least matched the.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Broader vote for for Trey Young.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Okay, again, I think you're playing the local national game
in a weird way.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I think it was Atlanta and you know, China and
lots of other votes for.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Trading in Nina.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
But whoever, whatever internationals you want to pay, you want Australia,
wherever you want to pick. I think the reason why
Trey Young finished ahead of Jalen Brunson in the vote
has nothing to do with New York versus Atlanta and
who showed up more? Uh, Because yeah, if you're right
in that case, it would have been easy for I think,
I think the numbers right now would have been easy
(27:48):
for Brunson to be ahead of Trey Young.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
But he got votes from a lot of other places.
So look, we can.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Agree didn't get but Tray didn't get the NOD, right,
Lillard got the NOTT and he got.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
There because he got no media and player votes. Well no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
No Tray up, Tray up.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
But Lillard got the NOD. This again, we got to
go back to the facts here. Lillar got the NOD
because he got seven hundred thousand ish more votes than
Jalen Brunton. And my contention, which you will not shake
me off of and I clearly won't shake you off
of yours, is that Knicks fans with who are millions strong,
could have easily made up that gap. They chose not to.
(28:26):
They chose not to Jerry, and that's why Jalen Brunson is.
You have to wait till next week to see if
the coaches add him as a reserve.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
No, I know, I'm never gonna change your mind on it,
so it's fine. I'm trying to see, you know what.
I made sure I'm following Jalen Brunson on Instagram, which
I have been, and uh yeah, you know, look he's
got three hundred and sixty five thousand followers. That's an
amazing start. You know, Dave's got ten millions. So you know,
we'll see where they where they end up in the
local New York voting see New York. I'm gonna encourage
(28:55):
Knicks fans to follow Jalen Brunson on Instagram a little
more and I'll make that my life's work. But uh,
we could I could agree with you on one thing.
Knicks fans could have showed up a bit more for Brunson.
I don't believe in my heart of hearts it was
ever going to be seven eight hundred thousand more votes.
And by the way, Dame deserves to be where he's at.
(29:15):
He's had a great season, their numbers are identical. The
Bucks are still thirty and thirteen even though the coaching issues.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So it's not to me.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I don't look at it like a total humiliating snubbing.
I think the Knicks fans could have showed up a
little more. I am not blaming the whole the whole
fan vote on the Knicks lack. No fan base has
a huge urgency to get their guy in it. It's
it's it's bigger than that, and we'll never agree, and
it's all good, it's all.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
We will not we will not agree. But again, just he.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Will be a starter next year and I would bet
I would bet harder in cash on that.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's that that Lillard is the starter is not humiliate.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
The vote totals that Jalen got is humiliated, especially when
you stack it up the global against hold On against
the global brand that is Shake Guilder's Alexander.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
They got millions of votes. He got a whole bunch
of guy, but.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Doesn't that doesn't matter what Jalen Brunson like is not
gonna win m VP, but he's in all NBA comms.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
You don't think that you and other people with huge,
huge platforms, even though New York has a huge platform
and millions of people watch Knicks games. You total up
you and Bill Simmons and all the millions and millions
of people who listen to those podcasts who now are
talking about Brunson a lot and maybe have lightly in
the past. But it's a big Tyressee Halliburton love fest.
(30:34):
It's a Shay Gil just Alexander love fest. You don't
think that matters and voting at all?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I think again to you know, let me procter you here.
You're assuming facts, not an evidence here, Jerry, like.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
This is this is no, no, that's a fact. That's
a but you're assuming.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So you're saying like we're sitting there talking every week
about shake guild of Alexander and Tyrese Aliburton at.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Shay like ty Reee.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
When he was taken off during the n season tournament,
absolutely he became the topic du jour, and Shay has
been someone people have believed in for multiple years. I
did a profile on him for the magazine just about
a year right about a year ago now. But he
is not someone that leads every sports show or leads
every podcast every single week. He's just not, but yet
he's still got more than what two million more votes.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I'm gonna clap it up for ok See fans, you guys,
I love you know what too. I was always I
you know, I still want to franchise in Seattle, but
you know you moved to a huge market in okay See,
and you guys showed up for your boy. And you guys,
okay See fans, you got Shay Gilles Alexander starting in
the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
We big up. Okay see.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
We can agree on that. That's a wild point. But anyway, buddy,
I love this. Let's find something else to do and
go ahead. I gotta we gotta have a boxing conversation
at some point, because you know you're the man with that.
And but yeah, we could just agree to disagree and
we'll move on from there.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
But we'll see.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I will take a bet with anyone Jalen Brunson will
be starting in the All Star Game. And you know what,
maybe it's this conversation and your excellent work calling out
Nick fans that will lead to a better turnout next year.
You might be the reason you might be revisiting this
one year from today. At this conversation saying, you know
who really was the one who threw the first blow,
(32:22):
Chris Mannix Scot Jalen Brunson over the hub.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I love you, Jerry, and I want to remind these
your audience listening that like every tweet you put out
at me about this voting thing, you followed.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Up with a text message.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So I have like a stream of tweets from you
saying one thing and then very similar text messages like
five seconds later, So you were firing off on all platforms.
You are someone that Knicks fans uh should model after
because you're.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I waited a long time for this, Chris. I waited
a long time.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I was going to Nick Games watching Chris Douhan do
his thing, and I waited a.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Long time for this.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And I'm gonna join.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
My elf, buddy, thank you, and uh yeah, I'm gonna
we'll talk off the air too, So we could do
some stuff with this, but you gotta come back and
talk like when we get maybe trade deadline. We could
just have a straight basketball conboy, all
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Right, Chris, take care, brother, h
All right, special bonus episode of the podcast for your listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
You know that. Earlier this week, I.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Went in on Knicks fans for the lack of support
in the fan voting for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I thought it was pathetic.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I thought a fan base as passionate as New York's
could have done better. And it turns out I was right.
When the All Star voting and the All Star starters
was revealed on Thursday, Jalen Brunson missed out on a
starting spot because the All Star vote didn't go his way.
(00:40):
Damian Lillard is starting in the All Star Game. He
and Jalen Brunson had identical scores by how the NBA
scores it with the fan voting, the player voting, and
the media voting. But the tie breaker is the fan voting,
and Damian Lillard clobber Jalen Brunson by more than seven
hundred thousand vote. So I name checked the Knicks fans,
(01:02):
and I named checked Jerry Ferrara, actor, huge Knicks fan,
one of my favorite people in this business, and Jerry,
not surprisingly took exception to it came back at me
on social media. We texted a bunch about it over
the last couple of days, and Jerry invited me on
his show nixt Morning Brew, which you can see on
YouTube a few days a week, to discuss this and
(01:25):
kind of hash it out about whether or not Knicks
fans had let Jalen Brunson down. So I decided to
hop on there Friday morning. What you're about to hear
is the audio of our debate did Knicks fans let
Jalen Brunson down? Here's me and Jerry Ferrara getting into it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
What's up, Chris? How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's good to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
What was it one, two, three, four of the reasons
that Jalen Brunson is not an All Star starter this year?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
So before we get go, no, for the record, you
voted because you are media.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You voted for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So this isn't a personal you you like Brunson, you're
a fan, you voted for him.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I think Jalen Brunson had, you know, outside of Tyre's
Halliburton has had the second most impactful year as a guard.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I gave him the edge.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Over Donovan Mitchell, who would have been my third choice,
but I think he played like ten less games than Brunson,
which was a bit of a difference maker for me.
Lillard is still Lillard, but I think Brunson's clearly had
a better first half of the season.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So yeah, Jalen Brunson was my guy.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So let's get into this because you know, I've obviously
we know each other for a long time. I'm a
fan of yours and we know you're a Celtics fan.
We're not going to say that that bleeds into the
why you decided to clobber Knicks fans? How is the
how is Jalen Brunson not getting enough of the fan
vote on Nick fans? Because what I want to say
(02:57):
to you is I hit you with the popularity contests
all that, and you don't want to hear it. And
I have some facts in issues I'd love to get
your take on in the past that maybe shows an
example for what I'm saying. So when you said Nick
fans reaches far and wide, what the f does that mean? Like,
are we supposed to am I supposed to get Ben
Stiller and Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld and go shoot
(03:19):
PSA's about why we should all go vote for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
What do you mean by Knicks fans reaches far and wide.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
No, that wasn't what I was referring to.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was referring to the fact that, outside of perhaps
the Lakers, I think the Knicks have one of the
bigger national fan bases. I think there's more interest in
the Knicks nationally than really outside the Lake.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Look the Knicks playing the gutter.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
For a long time, Chris. They took away the Christmas
game away from the Knicks. They took the Christmas Day
game away.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Have you seen the numbers of national TV games? They
played twenty five national TV games this year. So there's play, right, Okay,
but there's plenty exposure for the next Let's not act
like the Knicks of this quirky upstart of a franchise
right like they are.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I don't think that the second most I think the
I think your Celtics are probably the second most covered
talked about UH franchise. They've been in finals games, Eastern
Conference Finals. You made the point of on text like, well,
Jalen Brown, how does Jalen Brown have so many votes?
We've been watching Jalen Brown in the playoffs in Eastern
Conference finals in finals we talked about this contract, which
(04:28):
was the biggest ever for a year he's gotten.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
He's not a house house household name been talking about
Jaylen Brown for a long time now, way longer than
Jalen Brunson, who's been overlooked at every single step of
his career nationally media wise.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean, you can't really say that when he finished
what did he finish second in the media vote? Like
you can't kill now till now, okay, till okay, but
he was till now, he was properly he was properly feted,
feeded in uh by the media in this boat.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Where he was not respected was by the fans.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Can we just before we go any further, can we
just stipulate that the reason Jalen Brunson is not an
All Star starter is because of the fan vote.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
We can stipulate that, and we can also stipulate that
the fan vote being responsible for fifty percent of the
actual reason why people are starters is a ridiculous way
to conduct an actual who deserves the spot competition?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Jerry that there's no good way to do it. It used
to be one hundred percent of the fan vote. Now
they did fifty. I think it's a fan.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Next year.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I used to go go and think what locker where
you have to get the cards and punch the votes
like I've been a part of the voting process since
i was ten years old?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Or but hold on, we'll stipulate if Jalen Brunson did
better in the fan vote, if he had passed Damian
Lillard in the fan vote, he would be the All
Star starter.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now, my issue with you, Jerry, My issue with you
is that, well, it's a couple of things. One, you
have created this reality that Jalen Brunston was somehow millions
of votes behind the leaders in the vote getting category,
and that there was no way behind dam Is in
(06:12):
the grand scheme of things. That is a small number
for Knicks fans. How many Knicks fans watch MSG network
every single night? How many Knicks fans roll into Madison
Square Garden every single night? Jerry, this is not an election.
You're not only allowed to vote once. You can go
on your laptop or on your phone. This isn't the
(06:34):
nineteen nineties where you had to go into foot locker
and punch a ballot and submit it that way. All
Knicks fans have to do, or had to do, was
to go onto a website and spend thirty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I clocked it one time.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I've done thirty five seconds vote. You've done it, thirty
five seconds voting for Jalen Brunton, And they didn't do it,
not and mass and I don't understand the dichotomy of
all this because Knicks fans are lunatics. You are all nuts,
like what I've told you this over text. One of
my best friends is a Knicks fan, and he goes
(07:09):
to half the Knicks games. He goes to road games.
He was at the sixer game recently in Philly. He
went to Dallas for the game. I have a picture
in my phone of this guy in La yelling at
Leon Rose a couple of years ago because he was
sitting a few rows behind him because he didn't like
the moves that they were making. You Knicks fans organized
and mass to go after Candace Parker when she degraded
(07:32):
your favorite player on social media.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yet you can't seem to find it within.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yourself to spend thirty five seconds voting for this guy
once or twice a week. So when I put it
all on Knicks fans. I'm doing that because it was
only a seven hundred thousand vote gap that Knicks fans,
given just their local fan base, could have made up
in a New York minute.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
See this is where we clash because only seven hundred thousand.
That's almost double the total amount of votes that he got.
So you're talking about seven hundred thousand votes. I can't
even get fifty people to show up to a fucking
birthday party, and you're trying to say we should organize
to get seven hundred thousand more votes from Nick fans only.
So I ask you this because what you're saying is,
(08:17):
you know, how did Dame get those votes? And how
in twenty twenty one, okay, with the Brooklyn Nets, let's
talk about the fandom.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Maybe not even of seven hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
And as we all saw Knicks versus Nets last night,
their best player said that was a bummer.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It is to have ninety five percent Nick fans.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
How in twenty twenty one was Kevin Durant number one
in votes? Kyrie Irving, who was not pull up it
in New York in twenty twenty one, let alone the
most of the rest of the country, was number one
in backcourt votes. James Harden not the favorite Brooklyn player
of all time?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Number three? Are we saying the Brooklyn net New Yorkers.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Got them there to be the number one vote getter
in the entire Eastern Conference?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Of course, not happen.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
How did they get that many votes?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
The names that you just mentioned are national and global
brands that have been national and global brands.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For some time.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Again, I harken back to the original point of I
can't believe you just said a cake of fifty people
to go to a party. That's people getting people to
actually show up. I'm talking about these guys who are
watching this stream right now. Many of them who didn't vote,
did not vote sitting on their phone or laptop and
pressing a button. Those guys you mentioned got their support
(09:34):
because they have years of building a brand that fans
have become attached to. You. What I'm arguing is that
Knicks fans, with an enormous local fan base who watch
games by the millions, who are as supportive of this
team as any fan base in the NBA, they could.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Have made up the difference. You could have come up
with seven hundred thousand. Jerry quote going on for six weeks.
Two more things, Two more things.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Number One, Damian Lillard, top seventy five NBA player of
all time who has his own game time. He has
more streams on Spotify in his hip hop career than
most up and coming rappers. He has his own shoe deal,
which I have one of his shoes. You're gonna say
that Damian. Maybe he's not Kevin Durant level brand. He's
a bigger name than Kyrie Irving. We know Kyrie Irving
(10:24):
for a lot of different reasons. So in terms of
who you more likely to vote for, Damian Lillard is
a huge By the way, Damian Lillard deserves it. The
Bucks have this weird thing going on because they had
to fire their coach and the vibes aren't good.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
They're still thirty and thirteen, and.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
When you put Dame and Brunson's numbers side by side,
they're almost identical. But I think Brunson being the number
one player on his team and Dame being probably I
mean the two because of Giannis is maybe where you
make the argument.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't look at it as like a major loss.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That Lillard made the All Star starting lineup over and
I don't look at it. It's seven hundred thousand votes.
You're talking like that's nothing. If you're seventy thousand. If
it's nothing, it's Jerry. You only have one point two
million total. You're asking for like seventy percent more. I'm sorry,
I'm yelling. You're asking for like seventy percent more votes
(11:16):
than he got already. It's not done by It's not
a local voting system. Chris as big. The New York
market that you're talking about is the biggest in the world.
Has been in the gutter. No national TV games. We
can't get free agents, we can't get Nick saying all that.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Come on, I'm not on Nick fans.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
It's not it's all on Nick fans.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
That's crazy. I'm better than that man. No, please, Jerry
all Knicks fans. Jerry, your fans don't vote, like when.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Your buddy doesn't vote. You're based on your one friend.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
No vote, No, no, no, here's listen to me. Here's an example.
When you're pal Allen Han. My good friend Alan Han
subtweeted my video. Uh the other day. We were both
acting back and forth scrolling through the replies, and the
replies were exactly what you would think they were, where
Knicks fans are like, no big deal. Many of them
(12:09):
were like, wait, how do you vote? We don't care
about All Star. We care about winning a championship.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Or I did too, and I don't think Alan understood
debating about the apathy.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
The apathy of Knicks fans when it comes to All
Star voting is shocking.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And if you think players don't care about this, Jerry
your I didn't think they care.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I'm sure is bitterly disappointed that he is to be No,
but he's not going to be the All Star starter.
And the reason he's not the starter is because he
didn't get enough votes from his fan base.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
His fan base did not vote.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Enough that that that argument does not hold up if
it was a local vote, like if you're only allowed
to vote, like hey, if if if you want to
vote for Dame, you have to be registered in Milwaukee,
and if you want to vote for Giannis you have
to be If he was a local vote where you
could only vote in your state, it's.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
It is a global universal.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Do you think people globally know fully about Jalen Brunson.
There's people in the national media who don't watch the
Nick Games that have no clue what's going on with them.
They don't watch Nick's Hornets on a Sunday afternoon. They
just say, oh, yeah, Brunson had a twenty eight and five.
That was awesome, great game, Nicks beat the Hornets. Oh wow,
big deal. So you're blaming strictly that you think just
the Nick fans couldn't get in there. I'm trying to say,
(13:28):
it's a it's a d. And now look every year
it's getting better. Last year he should have been an
All Star.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He wasn't.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
This year he's gonna he got snubb last year. This
year he will be an All Star, not a starter,
snubbed again, hopefully Masol and gay. Next year, Jalen Brunson
will be starting in the All Star Game because people, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
You will, they wanna make a bet on that. We
want to make a bet, We'll make a bet.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well, yes, if he has a yes, I don't believe
there's going to be the numbers are there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Repeat this kind of year? He will be starting next
year because people.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Know now they're learning now, Jerry, Jerry, I can't I
can't with you with this one, because how again, just
put it in give me a number.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How many Knicks fans watch a game every single night.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Millions, and those people could have easily made up the difference.
It was seven hundred thousand votes. They could have made
the difference. One thing for you. Let me ask you this.
One of the leading vote getters Jerry was Shay Gildas
Alexander and Oklahomas.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Does Shay have some worldwide national fan base that I
don't know about. He has spent the last five and
a half years, six years playing in Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Seems talked about the media for a year and a half. Dude,
I'm talking about the fan vote.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I'm talking about the fan vote.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Two.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Does he?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, then maybe the next do a better job with
outreach in trying to get their guys, uh some more attention?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Does he?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But he does not have this brand that would engender
himself to fans.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Nashly, you know what?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And I wish the disagree.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I wish the NBA did this.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But I would bet every nickel in my pocket that
the overwhelming number of votes that Shay Gilders Alexander got
came from Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I believe that people in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Would you make the same part, Okay off that point.
Would you make the same bet that Damian Liewler's votes
came from Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
No, because he's nude in Milwaukee. They could have come
from Portland, they could.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Have gone the Mitchells from Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But again, he's got a couple of cities. He's been
popular in their Probably.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Brunton was popular in Dallas, Ish.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Not that popular. I mean, that's not compared Jalen Brunce.
I'm just saying, Jerry, Nick, there's so many of you.
There's so many of you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Jerry, Why won't you you.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You fans that will storm into the Barclays Center to
watch the Knicks play against the Nets, who will travel
all over the country to watch your team. Why is
it so hard for every one of you every day
to go online and vote for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Why is that so difficult? I can't wrap my.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Headle of an NBA voting problem, not a Nick skip
Runt problem is problem. Look at the number of votes.
There's x amount of votes every year, Chris. There's people
in every fan base that are never going to vote,
whether it's because of their age, or they don't give
a shit, or they're too young. Every fan base there's
people who will not vote. They just don't participate in
(16:20):
voting for the All Star Game. They don't care enough.
That's every fan base, not Nicks. That's your even your
Boston Celtics, who had a remarkable vote for their players.
They almost had five starters. For crying out loud, there's
a percentage this national fans. If we're talking about who's
more likely to get votes based on name brand value,
(16:41):
which is what the voting system is for this particular
All Star Game. Yeah, I think Jalen Brown a lot
more people internationally and domestically know who he is being
that we watched them in finals and Eastern Conference Finals,
and like I said, we talked about the highest paid
contract of all time. Because a lot of media talk
about the Celtics, they're one of you mentioned the Knicks
might be the second after. I think it's the Lakers
(17:03):
and Celtics in terms of who gets talked about the
most because we haven't had a lot of Knick conversations
until the last two or three years.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Let's be honest, we have.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It, Jerry, but this is our disconnect that you think
that Jalen Brunson needs a bigger profile to get more
of the outside New York vote. Yeah, argument, which I
can actually agree with that. Yeah, I think my argument
is some crazy argument. Well, my argument is it doesn't
matter the amount of Do you think that one what
(17:32):
do you wind up with one point two million total
votes something like that?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Roughly?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Do you think that's do you think.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Given the Knicks fan base, Jalen Brunson getting one point
two million votes over like six weeks is a good number.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
You have X amount of people who are gonna vote,
Maybe you can cross over until maybe you can cross
over intil like, hey, there's you know what, we added
fifty thousand new voters this year, not for Knicks fans,
just in general for NBA all start voting period of
people who will vote versus people who will not. That's
an NBA outreach voting issue that they need to deal with.
(18:05):
Some people just don't care or don't even know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
How to do outreach voting issue. That's the Knicks. There
are cities and markets, Jerry, Jerry, I have numbers backing
me up, like Shae Gilder Alexander huge numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Tyree's house.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
You're wrong, you know you're wrong about that conversation. Wait
time out you think that Shay's numbers, Shay's votes primarily
came from the OKAC fan base and those millions.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Of people, and same thing with Tyre Sliburton.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Then we need to release the data. We need to
release the data. I've already asked, because I honestly, I
think you would. I think you would literally say, let's
not talk about this voting stuff anymore because.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You realized the voting isn't it's not a voting.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Voting was a problem back in the day when like
Zaza Pachulia was getting all these votes from like Georgia.
It's still it still is not a problem. Your problem,
which you just won't accept. You can't wrap around. I
can't hold on, hold on. You can't wrap your head
around this fact that Knicks fans gave Jalen Brunson an
embarrassingly low vote tuttle. It was an embarrassingly low vote
(19:12):
tuttle that cost him a spot on the All Star Game.
These are facts. If he got more votes, he would
be an All Star. If Knicks fans galvanized in the
same way they galvanized to do everything else involved with
the New York Nicks, including going to games and attacking
Candace Parker, this guy would be the all Star starter.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Fact a couple of things there.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Number one, you haven't even factored in social media to
this conversation, which is interesting, Which is one of the
issues I had with our last com argument, which was
about the NBA two K League, where you just shun
that off as something stupid and why are they doing
it when you have to be button quick? Yeah, and
it's in year seven and it's changed like hundreds of kids' lives.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Who I don't do that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love the kids for it, I just don't.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm just saying it worked. But you haven't even put
social media.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Into play as a little graphic of maybe we could
track how people's followings are.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know, Damian Loward has over ten.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Million followers on Instagram, so maybe that gives you a
little taste of who's a little more popular.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And secondly, how many?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Why Why was kat Why was Carmelo Anthony voted on
so widely by I guess only Knick fans because only
local people vote for their people.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Why was Carmelo Anthony when.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
He was already starting to slip production wise, and the
Knicks we're losing getting hammered hammered draft lottery team. Why
was Carlo Anthony always like number one, two or three
of voting.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Carmelo is in the same boat as Kevin Durant and
Kyrie Irving, as James Harden is that they are national brands.
They are bigger than that. Again, we're not we're not
disagreeing on this.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You're putting Damian Loward in that conversation though, and who's
starting Damian Lilly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He is a national brand. We're not disagreeing with that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
We're disagreeing on the fact that you think the Knicks
fans that they couldn't have done better like.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
You think I think, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I led off with, I led off with and I've
said this to you on text multiple times, and I
led off this conversation with we did oh a better
turnout for bruntson I don't think it would have been
the turnout like you're saying, I don't think you would
have finished with three million votes if we did a
lot the vote campaign.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
What not? Listen, man, You're just you're like, why not?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Jerry?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
It's not this is an NBA All Stars start. I'm
not trying to pooh pooh that this is for an NBA.
We're not talking about like all NBA where guys actually
get paid off of that stuff with incentives.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Whoa we're talking about Hold on, First of all, I
don't know that to be true.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I don't know the details of Jalen Brunt's contract, but.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Very often not brunts in particularly in general, player's numbers
dictated by all NBA.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You want to talk about, but you want to talk
about money, JA Like, Look, whatever comes to stuff like
sneaker deals, endorsements, uh, everything outside of basketball. A guy's
popularity factors into that. You know how much a guy
might make in a sneaker dear, how much a guy
might make an endorse some deal. So, if Jalen Brunston
got the full throat and support of Knicks fans, it
(22:13):
did get those three million votes that are so hard
to come up with according to.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
You, Yeah, if here's a number one vote at er
in the Eastern Conference, Okay, that's all you're asking for,
the number one vote at er in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You just said, millions of Knicks fans watch games every
single night. Why can't millions of Knicks fans vote? I
don't I don't understand this that votes.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
That's an NBA outreach problem. Again, that's an NBA outreach problem.
There's people who have never voted and will never vote.
Why is it number the presidency?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
This is people?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Why is it an NBA thing? Why? Why? On?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I don't I don't watch every MSG broadcast. I kind
of toggle back and forth between road and away.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
So why is that Nick to do? What do you
expect the Knicks to do? To do that four times
a game, say vote Jalen Brunton four times? Again? Think
they do? You don't think they do.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I don't think they do it four times a game.
I would, I'd be pushing it hard. This was hear
do it a lot and on social.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I think they've done it.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They've done it quite often on social. I've posted on
social about it. They I've posted quite often about it.
I think they I think they did their outreach as
they were willing to do. Also, running an organization trying
to win games, and.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Those things are mutually exclusive, Like, come on, you can't
do it. You think that Leon Rose is handling the
social department?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Come on, I just would love to hear your genius
plan of how to get three million people three million
votes for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Let's hear it. Let's hear the golden plan of how
to do that.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Because it's so easy to get New Yorkers to vote
three million times for Brunson, had to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's my problem.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I don't understand why Knicks fans are so apathetic about this.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm not this Knick fans, buddy. It's not just Nick fans,
but Knicks fans apathy in all right, marketing Knicks.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Fan local fan base, how many local fan base is
outnumber Nick the Knicks. Maybe, the Lakers, maybe, but they're
actually more of a national brand than the Knicks. I
think locally, local centric. Yeah, the Knicks have the strongest
fan base of them all. So it is a Knicks
problem because the apathy there is worse because this was
(24:13):
a humiliatingly low vote total, humiliatingly low Virgia.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
That is so dramatic, dude, that is dramatic. And I
think you're guilty of Knicks for Clicks in the first degree,
you know, humiliatingly low. Wait, wait, humiliatingly low the video.
I look at you, Knicks, I'm gonna clabber you. That humiliating,
humiliating as Brunson humiliated right now after destroying the Nuggets
(24:38):
last night, and every Nick humiliated shearing his prey. Who's humiliated,
then I'm not. I don't feel humiliating.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
The vote total is Humiliatingly, the vote total was humiliating.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Are there anyone in New York with the Knicks? And
I think the fan I don't think there's any fans
or Nick players who are.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Humiliated, but they're not humiliated. The vote total are are?
It was a little so it could have been better.
You could have left, that could have been better.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Nick. The whole Knicks for clicks thing is kind of
a red herring sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
No, not as someone that writes digitally.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The Nis are not.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
They don't click as well as you might think.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Really who so who plays? It's still just Lebron It's.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Really the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Frankly, anything about the Lakers tend to click more than
nothing else.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So who's your number? Well click? Don't understand, But Chris,
we're in the second biggest market.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You would think that the Knicks would get a lot
of traction if you put out a story.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
There's interesting, But you seem to have the people that
say Nicks for Clicks framed the conversation like if I
write one story about the struggles of our No.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
No, you're coming after Knick fans. Dude, come on, you
came specifically, you come me with the first video and
then we started chatting, which was great and I thought
it was funny. And then you kinma casing me with
the second video, and then you got a little like
personal not personal, but you're like, I'm gonna crush you
Nick fan, Like you're not crushing us, Dude, You're not.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I don't have not. I don't think.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I don't think after last night too, there's no Knick
fans are walking around like, man, we let our boy down.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I don't think that's happening.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Did they did let their boy down? Okay, they did
so let Jalen Brents him down. If they had voted
he'd be an All Stars. The All Star started so simple.
We could agree that this is not he would be
an All Star starter.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
This is not a local vote and it never has been.
And that's why you can't explain away Dame Lillard winning
the vote and Donovan Mitchell higher and Trey Young, even
who's had not a great season and the Hawks are
not good and I'm glad you didn't vote for him
as a starter, thankfully.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Uh, but he's still up there and votes. Why that
people in Atlanta just like spamming that vote. But we
gotta get a boy in. We gotta get a has
been in TV tour for the last five years.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Trey Young is a great example, right. Trey Young absolutely
has the broad fan base. Kids grow up wanted to
play like Trey Young because he was kind of a
micro version of stuff, kind of that same style of play.
So he has a broad national fan base for sure.
The Atlanta fan base is virtually non existent, like there is.
It is one of the I'm trying to struggle by
the word for it because I want to like, there's
(26:59):
the the fans that vote down there, but they are
not anywhere near as strong as the Knicks fan base.
So my belief on on Trey Young versus Brunson is
that the local fan vote from New York should have
at least matched the.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Broader vote for for Trey Young.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Okay, again, I think you're playing the local national game
in a weird way.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I think it was Atlanta and you know, China and
lots of other votes for.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Trading in Nina.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
But whoever, whatever internationals you want to pay, you want Australia,
wherever you want to pick. I think the reason why
Trey Young finished ahead of Jalen Brunson in the vote
has nothing to do with New York versus Atlanta and
who showed up more? Uh, Because yeah, if you're right
in that case, it would have been easy for I think,
I think the numbers right now would have been easy
(27:48):
for Brunson to be ahead of Trey Young.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
But he got votes from a lot of other places.
So look, we can.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Agree didn't get but Tray didn't get the NOD, right,
Lillard got the NOTT and he got.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
There because he got no media and player votes. Well no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
No Tray up, Tray up.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
But Lillard got the NOD. This again, we got to
go back to the facts here. Lillar got the NOD
because he got seven hundred thousand ish more votes than
Jalen Brunton. And my contention, which you will not shake
me off of and I clearly won't shake you off
of yours, is that Knicks fans with who are millions strong,
could have easily made up that gap. They chose not to.
(28:26):
They chose not to Jerry, and that's why Jalen Brunson is.
You have to wait till next week to see if
the coaches add him as a reserve.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
No, I know, I'm never gonna change your mind on it,
so it's fine. I'm trying to see, you know what.
I made sure I'm following Jalen Brunson on Instagram, which
I have been, and uh yeah, you know, look he's
got three hundred and sixty five thousand followers. That's an
amazing start. You know, Dave's got ten millions. So you know,
we'll see where they where they end up in the
local New York voting see New York. I'm gonna encourage
(28:55):
Knicks fans to follow Jalen Brunson on Instagram a little
more and I'll make that my life's work. But uh,
we could I could agree with you on one thing.
Knicks fans could have showed up a bit more for Brunson.
I don't believe in my heart of hearts it was
ever going to be seven eight hundred thousand more votes.
And by the way, Dame deserves to be where he's at.
(29:15):
He's had a great season, their numbers are identical. The
Bucks are still thirty and thirteen even though the coaching issues.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So it's not to me.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I don't look at it like a total humiliating snubbing.
I think the Knicks fans could have showed up a
little more. I am not blaming the whole the whole
fan vote on the Knicks lack. No fan base has
a huge urgency to get their guy in it. It's
it's it's bigger than that, and we'll never agree, and
it's all good, it's all.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
We will not we will not agree. But again, just he.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Will be a starter next year and I would bet
I would bet harder in cash on that.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's that that Lillard is the starter is not humiliate.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
The vote totals that Jalen got is humiliated, especially when
you stack it up the global against hold On against
the global brand that is Shake Guilder's Alexander.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
They got millions of votes. He got a whole bunch
of guy, but.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Doesn't that doesn't matter what Jalen Brunson like is not
gonna win m VP, but he's in all NBA comms.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
You don't think that you and other people with huge,
huge platforms, even though New York has a huge platform
and millions of people watch Knicks games. You total up
you and Bill Simmons and all the millions and millions
of people who listen to those podcasts who now are
talking about Brunson a lot and maybe have lightly in
the past. But it's a big Tyressee Halliburton love fest.
(30:34):
It's a Shay Gil just Alexander love fest. You don't
think that matters and voting at all?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I think again to you know, let me procter you here.
You're assuming facts, not an evidence here, Jerry, like.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
This is this is no, no, that's a fact. That's
a but you're assuming.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So you're saying like we're sitting there talking every week
about shake guild of Alexander and Tyrese Aliburton at.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Shay like ty Reee.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
When he was taken off during the n season tournament,
absolutely he became the topic du jour, and Shay has
been someone people have believed in for multiple years. I
did a profile on him for the magazine just about
a year right about a year ago now. But he
is not someone that leads every sports show or leads
every podcast every single week. He's just not, but yet
he's still got more than what two million more votes.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I'm gonna clap it up for ok See fans, you guys,
I love you know what too. I was always I
you know, I still want to franchise in Seattle, but
you know you moved to a huge market in okay See,
and you guys showed up for your boy. And you guys,
okay See fans, you got Shay Gilles Alexander starting in
the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
We big up. Okay see.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
We can agree on that. That's a wild point. But anyway, buddy,
I love this. Let's find something else to do and
go ahead. I gotta we gotta have a boxing conversation
at some point, because you know you're the man with that.
And but yeah, we could just agree to disagree and
we'll move on from there.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
But we'll see.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I will take a bet with anyone Jalen Brunson will
be starting in the All Star Game. And you know what,
maybe it's this conversation and your excellent work calling out
Nick fans that will lead to a better turnout next year.
You might be the reason you might be revisiting this
one year from today. At this conversation saying, you know
who really was the one who threw the first blow,
(32:22):
Chris Mannix Scot Jalen Brunson over the hub.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I love you, Jerry, and I want to remind these
your audience listening that like every tweet you put out
at me about this voting thing, you followed.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Up with a text message.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So I have like a stream of tweets from you
saying one thing and then very similar text messages like
five seconds later, So you were firing off on all platforms.
You are someone that Knicks fans uh should model after
because you're.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I waited a long time for this, Chris. I waited
a long time.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I was going to Nick Games watching Chris Douhan do
his thing, and I waited a.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Long time for this.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And I'm gonna join.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
My elf, buddy, thank you, and uh yeah, I'm gonna
we'll talk off the air too, So we could do
some stuff with this, but you gotta come back and
talk like when we get maybe trade deadline. We could
just have a straight basketball conboy, all
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Right, Chris, take care, brother, h
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