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January 9, 2025 32 mins

Desi Lydic covers conservative media's support for Trump's Greenland invasion idea, Trump blaming Gavin Newsom for the LA wildfires, and Trump's plans for pardoning the Jan. 6 insurrectionists. Josh Johnson hits the street to hear from real New Yorkers about the controversial new congestion pricing toll. 

Founding president of the American Institute for Boys and Men and “Of Boys and Men” author, Richard Reeves, sits down with Desi to initiate a national conversation about the issues facing America’s young men. They discuss creating a space for dialogue about men’s issues without blaming women, how the phrase “toxic masculinity” pushes men from productive conversation, increasing the amount of men in teaching and mental healthcare, and how Trump acknowledged men’s issues but encouraged America to move backward.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Comedy Central.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Center, It's America's
only source for news.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is the daily Joke with your host Jazzy Lin.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welighting.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
You've got so much to talk about tonight. The right
pretends invading Greenland isn't weird as hell. We've got tips
for maintaining your insurrection. And you won't believe this, But
New Yorkers are complaining about something. But first, Donald Trump
is reminding people what his special brand of leadership looks like.
So let's get into our continuing coverage of Trump. Two

(00:55):
point zero coming for the White House.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
I'm gonna go.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Let's kick things off with President elect Donald Trump. He's
not even on America's payroll yet, but he's already causing
chaos for free.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
What a workaholic.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
As you've probably heard, Trump has decided that his first
big policy proposal will.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
Be buying or perhaps invading Greenland.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's the kind of nonsense no one should take seriously,
but Trump said it, so I guess we're all doing
this it.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
We'll be exciting that Greenland was part of the United State.

Speaker 5 (01:29):
I think that the people of Greenland should be honored.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
This to me could be Donald Trump's Louisiana purchase, same
size as the l Xiana purchase in square miles Greenland. Strategically,
it makes sense because it's the It's halfway point between
our country and the UK, so it would make.

Speaker 5 (01:47):
Sense to have that for war purposes. Yes, war purposes.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I guess
we should annex any place that's halfway between us and
somewhere else.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
This is just so sad.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
I know she's trying to be supported, but you could
tell even Ainsley thinks this is a bad idea, And
this is a lady excited to marry Sean Hannity, can
you imagine how exhausting it is to treat every one
of Trump's dumb ideas like it's.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
A work of art. Oh, sweetheart, what a beautiful drawing.
It looks like the Louisiana purchase.

Speaker 6 (02:25):
I want to put it.

Speaker 5 (02:26):
On the fridge.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
But while the Pentagon draws up plans for war against puffins,
Trump is giving us a reminder about what his leadership
looks like during times of crisis. Because while everyone else
is deeply concerned with what's going on in Los Angeles
Right now, Trump is handling the tragedy like this statesman.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
That he is.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Donald Trump is now weighing in on the horrific fires
in Los Angeles County, and he's laying the blame on
California's Democratic governor in.

Speaker 7 (02:55):
A social media post, referring to the governor as news
scum and writing he is the blame for this.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, in the midst of chaos, Donald Trump is taking
action by opening up the strategic nickname reserves. Thank you, sir,
Although quick question for Trump, do you mean new scum
or news come?

Speaker 6 (03:22):
I'm your comment, got it.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Even though we can't count on the incoming president, some
people are stepping up. And it's always heartening to see
everybody coming out to help their neighbors. And I do
mean everybody.

Speaker 8 (03:47):
It's important announcement. I wonder if I could just make
here on Palisades Drive, if anybody has a car and
they leave their car, leave the keys in the car,
so a guy like me can move your cars and
get them up there so that so that these fire
trucks can get up there. It's really really important.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Thank you for talking to deal with live, sir. What's
her name?

Speaker 8 (04:06):
Is my name?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Is Steve Gutenberg.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Holy shit, Steve Gutenberg, the actor, Steve Gutenberg moving abandoned
cars out of the way for firefighters.

Speaker 5 (04:19):
That is amazing. Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
And not only that, but if anyone abandons a baby,
he and two other men will raise it for them,
Hi Jinkswill and Sue. Of course, as great as that
is to see, officials are warning that now that the

(04:42):
fire has reached Steve Gutenberg, it's only two degrees from
Kevin Bacon. Now, if you're wondering why Trump isn't focused
on helping Californians, it's because he's focused on the people
who need him most, his insurrectionists.

Speaker 9 (04:57):
Trump didn't rule out pardons for those who were charged
with committing acts of violence in January sixth, twenty twenty one.
Are you planning to pardon those who were charged with
violent offensive?

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, we'll looking at it.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
We'll be looking at the whole thing, but I'll be
making major pardons.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
On the one hand, it's absolutely shameful that Trump would
pardon these rioters, but you have to remember these people
are his rider dies. They stormed to the Capitol and
they shot on a desk for him. No one's ever
shot on a desk for me, not once, and I
took out a Craigslist ad.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
For him.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
It's all about loyalty.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Plus he's going to need a personal army for when
he invades Greenland. Those puffers aren't gonna pepper spray themselves.
Plus he also wants to give insurrection.

Speaker 5 (05:49):
It's a little treat.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
They must have been so disappointed when January sixth came
around this year and they didn't get the chance to riot.
But for anyone out there who over prepared for this
year's January sixth, there are still some options for you.

Speaker 7 (06:03):
You were ready to storm the Capitol, but then Donald
Trump won the election. Now what do you do with
all that insurrection gear? No problem, You can just repurpose
all that stuff you were going to patriotically and democracy with.
Have too many zip ties, make a belt to carry

(06:23):
your tools, or create a timeless necklace for your wife.
That extra pepper spray can spice up your dinner. Leftover
stun gun now a car battery jumper. Use a pipe
bomb as a dumbbell, And instead of using that flagpole
to beat cops, try using it as a flagpole. That

(06:46):
horn helmet is your new coat rack. But keep all
that lumber you bought to Bill Gallows, because hanging Mike
Pence is always an option. This message was brought to
you by your local hardware store. We don't accept returns.
Next time, we'll discuss how to get vaccines out of
your body.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Back to find out why New Yorkers are not walking here,
Ford Garways.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
Welcome Mac to the daily show.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Windsor in New York is always a magical time to
freeze your tits off, But this winter the city is
adding something extra special.

Speaker 10 (07:42):
Tonight, a first in the nation toll called congestion pricing
now an effect in New York City. Millions of drivers
paying nine dollars to access the busiest part of Manhattan
south of sixtieth Street.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Huh, that makes sense. One clap.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
One person here thinks that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
If you charge more to drive in the city, the
roads get less congested.

Speaker 5 (08:09):
Who could have a problem with that.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
It's horrible, horrible tonight.

Speaker 10 (08:13):
They're coming down on the hard people that are trying
to work and make money.

Speaker 8 (08:15):
I dropped my wife off at the apartment on sixtieth Street,
and I got to pay nine dollars extra to do that.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
I was putting that bill together, and you can see
a psychiatrist.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
See a psychiatrist.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
This is New York, pal, everyone's already saying a psychiatrist.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Look, I get it.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
New York is already a crazy extensive place to live.
The only reason I had kids was so I could
split the rent with someone. And I guess for some
commuters who don't have other options, this could be a
real hardship. But not everyone who's complaining is quite so sympathetic.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
It really hits home because I live right here on
sixth first Street, in this building, and my car is
right there parked in front of my building. And if
I want to go to turn around to go uptown
to visit my kids who live on seventy ninth Street,
I have to pay nine dollars to go around the block.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Well, I guess that's settled. I'll never see my kids again. Buddy,
driving is not the only way to get across twenty blocks.
You could take the subway or the bus, or have
you considered legs, legs the ford f one point fifty

(09:43):
of the body. But some people aren't just complaining. They're
taking action, although not action like taking mass transit.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
I mean action like crime.

Speaker 11 (10:00):
The motorists are coming up with clever ways to avoid
those tool cameras planted strategically around the city. This brazen
driver removed his plates altogether.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Wait, how is that clever? He just took off his
license plate. So that's clever. But when I avoid my
taxes by telling the irs that I'm dead, I'm a
wanted felon.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Come on, it's not right. I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Removing the license plates isn't clever? Now covering your car
in license plates that that would be clever. But regardless,
don't commit crimes all right, because Mayor Eric Adams doesn't
need another thing to worry about.

Speaker 12 (10:44):
Mayor Eric Adams laughed off a question asking him to
assess how it's working so far, but he also reminded
New Yorker's congestion pricing wasn't his idea.

Speaker 6 (10:56):
I have ninety nine problems, you know.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
Ninety nine problems.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I think those are called indictments. I don't know if
ninety nine problems is a song. People associate most with
Eric Adams. I'd go with in the club or a
club can't handle me, or I'm under investigation for bribes
from Turkey. Real hip hop heads know that one look,
I know that this is a big change, and I

(11:25):
get that there are some drivers who are worried about
the safety on the subway. But the more people who
use the subway, the less room the subway masturbators will
have to masturbate, so it works out for everyone. We'll
see how it all turns out, although so far the
news has been pretty positive.

Speaker 11 (11:42):
The Lincoln Tunnel moving well, it's almost unheard about this
hour to see that.

Speaker 5 (11:46):
So it could be that congestion pricing has gotten people
off the road.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Look at that it's working. And yes, it's only been
a few days. So I don't want to get ahead
of myself, but I'm pretty sure that there will ever
be any problems in New York.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
Ever.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Again, of course, in a city this big, there's bound
to be a variety of opinions about congestion pricing, so
we sent Josh Johnson to the streets to get some
of them.

Speaker 13 (12:20):
New Yorkers disagree on a lot of things Yankees sources, mets,
pizza toppings, whether you can poop on the subway or not.
But now there's one thing ripping New Yorkers of heart
more than ever.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
Congestion pricing is official.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Drivers are now paying to dry us out of sixtieth Street.

Speaker 6 (12:36):
I had to pay the congestion pricing.

Speaker 13 (12:38):
How do you feel about it?

Speaker 6 (12:40):
Not too happy cars or congestion pricing cars, both the cars.

Speaker 9 (12:46):
I don't like the idea of all of those New
Jersey keeople being.

Speaker 13 (12:50):
Taxed so hearly do you think that maybe it should
go the other way? Maybe New York shill have to
pay nine dollars to get into Jersey.

Speaker 6 (12:57):
Absolutely not all.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
He wants to go to Jersey unless they have.

Speaker 13 (13:01):
To, Because yeah, because cars are very important because as
a New Yorker, how old are you going to get
where you need to be besides the subway or the
or the bus or a bike or like a petticab
or the horse drawn carriage. Scooters, segues, moler blades are

(13:23):
in again, solo wheels, piggyback rides, you know, from nice walking,
walking with a purpose, and yeah, yeah, we need more options.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
We know they need the money for the MTA. It's
supposedly raised fifty million dollars a year, so you know,
I definitely feel okay to the city doing this.

Speaker 13 (13:43):
What type of improvements would you made to the MTA?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Regular service that's completely reliable.

Speaker 10 (13:51):
Teleportation.

Speaker 13 (13:52):
Teleportation is actually way more likely than the regular service.

Speaker 14 (13:56):
The first thing I would love to fix is that
we have lights everywhere. I don't have to be afraid
to walk in the dark tunnel when I get off
the work at night.

Speaker 13 (14:04):
Okay.

Speaker 14 (14:04):
I would also like to have them have some people
maybe help the people that I see walking around naked.

Speaker 13 (14:10):
I'm very sorry about that. Was that was me and
that was a hot day. I mean, maybe they could
use some of the money put like some glade plugins
in the subway cars. That'd be a huge improvement right there.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
I'm guessing because of the crime rate in the subway,
it's probably not the number one priorities, I guess.

Speaker 13 (14:26):
But if I'm being mugged on the subway and it
also stinks, that's two bad.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
Things happen to me.

Speaker 13 (14:32):
At the same time, I want to get robs somewhere clean.

Speaker 6 (14:36):
Yeah, I think hygienus important.

Speaker 13 (14:38):
One of my biggest hopes is that with less cars,
with less congestion, right, it'll make airic Adams trying to
go away from the figs a much cooler chase. You
got that, He'll be born supremacy level Chase. So I
mean less cars means less noise. Who would have thought
with less noise, I can finally hear jackhammers, I can

(15:00):
hear sirens. I can hear like views and screams and stuff. Yeah,
but about that's that's that's you know, that's showing love
in New York.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
So you know I walk around you to this camera.
That's showing love.

Speaker 10 (15:13):
Yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 6 (15:13):
How good to let you know?

Speaker 13 (15:15):
Now I are you in New York? But you're really alive. Yeah,
we're going part ways.

Speaker 5 (15:21):
You too.

Speaker 14 (15:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
Thanks, you can he come back, you can leaves. We'll
be joining me on the show. Welcome that the Baby Show.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
My guest tonight is the president of the American Institute
for Boys and Men, an author of the Book of
Boys and Men. Why the Modern Man is Struggling, Why
and what to do about it? Please welcome Richard Reeves.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
Well, thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (16:22):
I sure appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Now, this Book of Boys and Men is a reboot
of Mice and Men?

Speaker 15 (16:29):
Correct, right, So I thought I'd go back to a
literary canon and turn it into a book with so
many charts in it. You remember of Mice and Men,
didn't have any charts.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
And.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
It was so much You made that change.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
And I've always felt the problem was with the mice,
so you you prodected.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
Yeah, well, I.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Guess none of these questions are going to work. Start
from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
You've spent most of your career researching gender inequality, poverty,
family policy, and a lot of your research which led
you to write this book, which was on Obama's reading
list over the summer.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
Congratulations.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I never thought I would say this, but could you
man explain this issue to me?

Speaker 15 (17:15):
Absolutely, I'd be very happy to. I should say, actually,
it was very nice that President Obama did mention it.
It was interesting that happened in twenty twenty four. The
book came out in twenty twenty two. I am not
going to criticize President Obama right here.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
Well he's never been on TREPSA.

Speaker 15 (17:32):
But I just wondered if it was took a little
bit of a while for the subject area to become
almost one that he could talk about publicly, because I
think part of the problem here, and this is where
I'll start Man's plaining, please, is that I think a
lot of people, especially women, feel like to talk about
the problems of boys and men somehow means you've joined
the other side, but somehow that means you've turned against women.

(17:54):
But somehow to support women's rights and women's concerns about
healthcare or the pay gap or the lack of women
in politics means that you then can't care about how
your son's doing in school, about your brother's mental health issue,
or about your husband's job.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
And that is insane.

Speaker 15 (18:09):
But it is the way that this debate about gender
is in danger of being framed, and has been for
the last few years, which is you've got to choose,
and if you want to care about women, you're not
allowed to care about men, and sometimes the other way
around too, and that's just crazy. But I think it's
part of the problem, and so the book and the
work in some ways, I think I saw too many
people who were talking about the issues of boys and

(18:30):
men doing so that led them almost immediately to say,
and I know who's to blame, the women, the feminists.
So if I'm struggling, it's because you're sitting there right,
it's because you're doing better. And that whole zero sum frame,
I think is just getting in the way of a
better conversation about it, because most people are perfectly capable.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Of thinking two thoughts at once. They can worry about women,
but that's not why they are women.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
I'm glad of you address it, because I think there
is that feeling among feminists, particularly in this moment in time,
when reproductive rights are in peril and there's the you know,
equal pay and all kinds of that.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Women are not the feeling.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
The immediate gut reaction is, well, let me grab the
world's tiniest vile in like, so sorry, roll your eyes
a bit, right, roll your eyes a little bit, but
you're absolutely right, and then two things can be true
at the same time.

Speaker 15 (19:20):
Yes, I get that feeling. I think it's actually important
not to dismiss that feeling. I think that anybody who
doesn't find this a slightly difficult conversation, like, how do
we talk about the rising suicide rates among men, the
falling wages among men, the troubles that boys are having
at school. How do we do that in a way
that makes sure that we don't in any way let
up the work we still need to do for women.

(19:42):
So I get that. I think it should be a
difficult conversation. But just because it's difficult doesn't mean we
shouldn't have it because someone's having it, and they're having
it online.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
And I, you know, I'm.

Speaker 15 (19:56):
Afraid that the discomfort that many people have had because
of their support for women in just acknowledging that there
are lots of ways in which a lot of men,
especially young men, are also not doing great today. Just
failing to acknowledge that it leaves a massive open space
for a bunch of other people to come along, possibly online,
and say you are struggling, that's the women's fault, come

(20:16):
to my website, or vote for me or whatever. And
so the neglect of male problems is not good, not
only not for men, but in the long run, it's
not good for any of us either. It just creates
a massive vacuum in our culture and in our politics.
And so I'm very frustrated. I understand the hesitation, but
unless you go past the hesitation and have this kind
of conversation, the fact that we lose forty thousand men

(20:39):
a year to suicide in the US now, and that
it's risen most among young men since twenty ten, the
fact that that's a problem doesn't mean that the gender
pay gap isn't also a problem, And I'm sorry for
anybody who says I have to choose between caring about
those two things, and I'm only allowed to care about
one of them.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Is no one's friend. And I don't care if on the.

Speaker 16 (20:57):
Left all the right you have to ride together, particularly
in this moment in time, coming out of the election,
I think many people thought that this election was going
to be a referendum on reproductive rights, and as it
turned out, it was a referendum on how poorly young
people are doing, particularly young men.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
What do you think Trump's win says about modern American
masculinity in this moment.

Speaker 15 (21:24):
Well, I think the first thing is to say, of course,
it was about lots of things, and we're all in
danger of Like I've written a book about men, and
so it's in my interest to say it was all
about men. I don't think it was mostly about that.
But to the extent, we saw a big gender gap
among young people, especially in voting. So we saw young
women move a little bit to the right, but young
men moved a lot to the right in this last elections,

(21:46):
the biggest gender gap we've seen in that generation. I
think what that says is that simply by signaling to men,
especially to young men, we see you, we like you,
we're on your podcasts, et cetera. That was in contrast
to a Democrat message that basically didn't have anything for
men in it, because it was a sense of like,

(22:07):
we're the women's party, we're going to double down on
women's rights. And again it's not that that's there's anything
wrong with that, but if that's all young men heard,
and then you've got these guys over here saying, yeah,
we can see you, we can hear you, and we're
going to go on the podcast that you're listening to, etc. Well,
in the end, in politics, something usually beats nothing. And
on the Democrat side, I'm afraid to say we heard

(22:28):
deafening silence on these issues because of that fear that
that would somehow undermine their claim to be a party
that was on.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Behalf of women.

Speaker 15 (22:37):
And actually, what we need is a political party and
political leaders who are on all our sides and.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Who don't frame up the who care about your son
and your daughter.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
We can see how the Democrats kind of misstepped in
that area, and there's room for growth.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
What do you think the Conservatives are getting wrong?

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Their view is that well.

Speaker 15 (23:01):
To be fair, what we get right is they have
noticed in some way some of the struggles that men have,
and they then make the move of saying, and we
know why, it's because of women's rights, it's because of feminism.
It's because it's because of the rise of women over
here that we've seen the fall of men over here.
That is completely untrue, Like we rise together or we
don't rise at all. Right, we're gonna have families together,

(23:22):
we're gonna we're gonna make TV shows together. As a society,
we can't flourish if either men or women are floundering.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
We need both to do well.

Speaker 15 (23:32):
And so what the conservatives do is identify the real
problems in many cases of boys and men and then
completely falsely and inaccurately say that's the fault of women
or the rise of women, and so we.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Have to go back.

Speaker 15 (23:45):
And so the problem is that so many people feel
like there's a right, a reactionary right that says we
need to go back to the way it was when
you you know, your father was around your grandfather.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Let's go make amain, Let's make America male again.

Speaker 15 (23:57):
Right, Let's bring back the bread winner male and women
who know their place and all of that, because it
was kind of simple then so they harken back. But
on the left there's a sense of like, well, actually,
maybe we don't need men. Maybe men are toxic, and
so maybe you should be more like your sister. And actually,
if men are given the choice between becoming their father
or their grandfather and becoming.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Their sister, then no wonder they're lost.

Speaker 15 (24:21):
And so we have to find a way to talk
about masculinity and men and what's happening to them in
a way that is entirely compatible with gender equality, that
doesn't give any ground at all on what we need
to do for gender equality, but also doesn't say, and
I'm afraid people do do this. They say men don't
have problems. Men are the problem. And if we continue
to just see men as problems rather than also having problems,

(24:45):
then it's going to be a very very difficult time
for us over the next few years.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
You have.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
You have strong feelings about the term toxic masculinity, Is
that what's your toxic masculinity speaking?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
It could be.

Speaker 15 (25:04):
It's very hard to know, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
To find someone?

Speaker 15 (25:08):
Well, I didn't used to be so against it, but
actually What I noticed is that when you go into
a conversation with men and you have that deficit frame, right,
So it's basically, how can make you less toxic?

Speaker 14 (25:19):
Right?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I have a vision for you.

Speaker 15 (25:19):
You could be a non toxic man. That's not very inspiring.
I raised three boys to their twenties, and I hope
I did a better job of saying, in the future, boys,
you might be actually not poisonous.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Wouldn't that be amazing?

Speaker 5 (25:31):
It's such a fair point.

Speaker 15 (25:32):
So it actually it pushes men away from a productive conversation.
You put those two words next to each other. And
it also has now become so broadened as a term.
It used to be using a very specific way around
crime and so on. And it basically didn't exist before
twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like the term. No one had heard the term before
twenty sixteen. And of course we kind.

Speaker 15 (25:52):
Of know why it might have comeon.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Happened in twenty sixteen to inspire that.

Speaker 15 (25:57):
Well, actually, one thing is one thing happened twenty sixteen
is I become a US citizen.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Oh when a time in America and I can make
it all agree, how great things have gone?

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes?

Speaker 15 (26:12):
Here UK by background, and so it drives men away.
But actually, more fundamentally, I think that it gets us
into a place where we are just saying, how can
we take out the bad stuff from men? And that's
in no way, of course, to say that we don't
need men to kind of do better and step up.
But I think that the idea that masculinity itself might
have something kind of wrong with it is intellectually wrong

(26:33):
but also politically incredibly dangerous. If you want people to
really lean into an identity, what you do is you
pathologize it. What you do is you say something wrong
with being that, and then watch what people do. And
so if you want men actually to think less about
their masculinity, parade their masculinity less, perform their masculinity less,
don't talk about it as toxic, that's a recruiting sergeant

(26:54):
for the reactionaries if you do that. So it's an
incredibly ineffective and I actually think now an offensive term
and which simply stop using it.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
Will you walk us through.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Your Girl's rule boys droel theory in your in your book,
I don't think I call it that well, I think
that's how I read it.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Is how I read it.

Speaker 5 (27:13):
Girl's Rule Boys.

Speaker 6 (27:14):
Drowl maybe it was.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
It was just technically girls rule chat.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think you're a woman's plaining my book.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
It might be a woman's plaining your book. Tipper cat,
tipper cat.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (27:28):
So in the education system now we have huge gender
gaps favoring girls and women. That's relatively new. I mean,
that's happened in the last twenty thirty years. But now
if you look at high schools, like the top ten
percent of high school students, two thirds of them are girls.
There's actually a bigger gender gap on college campuses today
in the US than there was in the nineteen seventies.
But it's the other way around, right, So it's sixty

(27:50):
forty female male now on college campuses. And I think
a big part of the reason for that is, I'll
use your language of rule and drool, which is like,
as every parent can tell you, on average, boys just
grow up a little bit later. They mature a little
bit later, and I'm not pathologizing them for that.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
Do they ever catch up?

Speaker 15 (28:15):
The very good chart I have on this in my book,
it only goes up to the age of twenty five,
and we haven't caught up by twenty five?

Speaker 6 (28:25):
Oh wow?

Speaker 15 (28:26):
The chart runs out and it's actually around things like
and this probably when it come as a surprise to
any but it's stuff like organizational skill, Like it's stuff
like turning your homework in or remembering to pick up
your dry cleaning a little bit later. And it's just
on the average, like men and boys are just not.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
As quite developed.

Speaker 15 (28:43):
One of the reasons to that, by the way, is
that girls enter puberty about a year earlier and that
triggers some brain development. And so the very short version
of this, and I'm not a biochemist, so I hope
this is basically right. Puberty causes this bit of your
brain to grow, and this bit of your brain is
a bit that tells you to turn in your chemistry homework. Right,
that was a bit of a simplification, but basically what
that means is the average fifteen year old girl sixteen

(29:05):
year old girl is older than the average fifteen year
old boy in terms of her development. I think that's
why we see some of these education gaps now. And
the reason we didn't see them before was because we
were so busy holding girls down in the education system
that we couldn't see that. But I think as we've
made the education system a bit more equal. What we've
actually seen is this greater maturity of girls just stops

(29:26):
to show up.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So what are some tangible solutions that could help fix
this problem?

Speaker 15 (29:31):
Well, in the education system, I feel the thing I
probably feel most strongly about is the fact that the
cratering share of male teachers has to be reversed. So
since the eighties, we've seen the share of male teachers
in our classrooms go from thirty three percent to twenty
three percent. There are now more women in stem than
there are men in teaching. The first is great, and

(29:52):
we need to do more, But how can we just
watch the share of men in our classrooms go down
and down?

Speaker 1 (29:56):
In town?

Speaker 15 (29:57):
My son has actually who struggled himself in school. He's
actually just started working as a fifth grade teacher in Baltimore,
And I couldn't be.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Proud of all that. I couldn't talent, but.

Speaker 15 (30:13):
He actually he struggled to go to school when he
was at school. So I did remind him as a
teacher he will have to go. But that's one and
we need hundreds of thousands more male teachers because I
think if we want boys to feel just as we
want girls to feel, the educations for them, that schools
for them. We can't just watch the share of men

(30:35):
in our classrooms go down and down and down every
year and not do anything about it. And so I
applaud the Biden administration's push for a million women into construction.
I applaud all their pushes for women into stem et cetera.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's terrific.

Speaker 15 (30:50):
Where are the initiatives to get men into teaching, men
into mental health care? Those are just as important, and
we cannot underrepresent men in those key professions. And my
son's an end of one. We just need about another
million men to get into teaching. I've done my bit well.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
From your lips to God's ears, thank you for coming on.
Thank you for having this conversation with me. It's an
important one and I hope we all continue having it.

(31:35):
Here we go, Please consider supporting the California Fire Foundation.
They are working on the ground with local fire agencies
and community organizations to provide support to residents. If you can,
please donate at the link below now here it is here.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Moment of Sin and.

Speaker 11 (31:51):
David back to the President elects demands to take over
the Panama Canal, Greenland and Canada Tonight the Prime Minister
of Denmark, which owns Greenland, is declaring Greenland is not
for sale and will not be in the future either,
and Canada's Justin Trudeau is saying there.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Isn't a snowballs chance in how that.

Speaker 11 (32:07):
Canada would become part of the United States.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by
searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
Watch The Daily Show weeknights at eleven.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime
on Paramount plus

Speaker 4 (32:31):
Paramount Podcasts
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