May 7, 2024 • 35 mins
Jordan Klepper tackles Trump's collection of gag-order violations and the ongoing ass-kissing pageant for his VP pick, which includes South Dakota Governor and puppy executioner Kristi Noem. Jordan and Josh Johnson unpack the beef between rappers Drake and Kendrick Lamar, and what world leaders can learn from this exchange. Also, Jonathan Haidt, a social psychologist and professor of ethical leadership at NYU, joins Jordan to discuss his latest best-selling book “The Anxious Generation.”
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central is America's
only sorts for news. This is the Daily Shown with
your host, Jordan Clappers.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome to the John Jordan Clipper.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
We got so much to talk about tonight. Donald Trump
is looking for a new vice president. Kendrick and Drake
are at war, and bring your dogs in the house
at night, because Christy Nome is on the loose.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So let's get into adlines.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Let's kick things off right here in New York City,
where Week three of the Donald Trump hush money trial
kicked off with a stern warning for the defendant in chief.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
We just got that decision from the judge on whether
or not Donald Trump has in fact violated his gag
order again. And the judge has decided that yes, Donald
Trump has now violated it for the tenth time, and
he said going forward, if Donald Trump violates it again,
he will consider jail time.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Oh, you've done it now, Donald, If you violate that
gag order for an eleventh time, the judge is gonna
really consider jail time.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I mean, he's strongly.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Contemplating the possibility of consequences for your actions.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Just one more chance.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Look, I get that no judge wants to throw a
former president into the slammer. But Donald Trump has the
mind of a toddler. If there's one thing a toddler understands,
it's that when mom and dad start counting like nine
and a half, nine and three quarters, the brat has
(02:05):
already won. Whether Trump is thrown in jail for a
few days over the gag order or thrown in jail
for a few years for the hush money scandal, He's
still going.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
To be the next president.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So let's get into the latest news and are good.
Look at the polls, everybody. Let's get into the latest
news and our ongoing converence of indecision twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Bright.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now, the presidential race is all about the veepstakes, and
over the weekend, everyone desperate to be Trump's running mate
gathered in mar A Lago.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
For a classic Trump beauty pageant.
Speaker 7 (02:45):
There are a lot of special gifts that are on
Donald Trump's shortlist for VP, and Donald Trump today at
may A Lago during that fundraiser, actually called a series
of them up on stage and praised then.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
About Senator Tim Scott. He said, as a surrogate. He
he's unbelievable. On Congressman Michael Waltz, a man that knows
more about the military When I want to know about
the military, I call him Christy nom somebody that I love.
Senator Mike Lee, I love your haircut, and he's a
good man too. Representative Hunt makes the best commercials. Congressman
(03:18):
Byron Donalds, I like diversity, diversita as you would say,
I like diversita.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Wow subtle.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Byron Donalds, I like diversity. What a clever way to
say that he's black and maybe French.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Diversita sounds like the name of a stripper Trump once
slept with. I have no evidence of that, of course,
maybe because he paid her that hush money. But some
VP candidates are showing more hustle than others, like a
lot of them. Denyed the twenty twenty election results. But
Senator Tim Scott was on TV this weekend pre denying
(03:58):
this year's election results.
Speaker 9 (04:00):
Will you commit to accepting the election results of twenty
twenty four? Bottom line?
Speaker 10 (04:06):
At the end of the day, the forty seventh President
of the United States will be President Donald Trump, and
I'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment.
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Wait wait, senator, yes or no? Yes or no? Will
you accept the election results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
No matter who wins, that is my statement.
Speaker 9 (04:25):
But just yes or no? Will you accept the election
results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 10 (04:31):
I look forward to President Trump being the forty seventh president.
Christ You can ask him multiple.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Times, Senator, just a yes or no answer, So.
Speaker 10 (04:38):
The American people, the American people will make the decision.
Speaker 9 (04:41):
But I don't hear you committee.
Speaker 10 (04:43):
For President Trump. That's that clear.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
This is how humiliating it is to be on Trump's team.
Normal questions become trick questions.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Do you accept the election results?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Should you look directly into an eclipse you? This is
not a hard question.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It's like when the band comes out and says, are
you ready to party? Just say yes and enjoy. Imagine
dragons like a responsible adult.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Come on. Of course.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
One of the top contenders for Trump's VP is South
Dakota Governor Christy nom She's got MAGA credentials, she's got
executive experience, she's got Fox News anchor face. If you
ask me, the race is hers to lose. There's really
nothing she could do to ruin her chances.
Speaker 11 (05:37):
A governor thought to be a contender for Donald Trump's
running mate.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
This November is responding to the.
Speaker 11 (05:42):
Backlash over a story in her new book. It's a
story about shooting her puppy.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Okay, maybe that might hurt her chances. I'm not a
political expert, but I think if I had to give
up politician advice, I would say the top thing is
to not shoot your puppy. The second top thing would
be to not write about shooting your puppy.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Look, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe
maybe she has a good reason.
Speaker 11 (06:14):
In the book, Nome says she shot and killed her
fourteen month old puppy named Cricket for bad behavior.
Speaker 12 (06:20):
Nome describes leading the fourteen month old dog to a
gravel pit to be shot after concluding it was less
than worthless, untrainable, and aggressive.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
As a mom, I made a choice between protecting my
children and protecting them from a dangerous animal that was
killing livestock.
Speaker 13 (06:35):
No posting this response on acts, saying we love animals,
but tough decisions like this happen all the time on
a farm.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
That is not an excuse.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Christina, you can't just go around executing puppies and say, well,
that's life on a farm. It's a farm, not international waters.
And for bad behavior, I mean, even Kuela Devela is
like Jesus.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
At least I was making a coach.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Was there really nothing else that could have been done
with a misbehaving puppy? Training medication? I mean, worst case,
send the dog to a nice family upstate. That's what
my parents said they did with my dog when I
was a kid. And he still sends me a birthday
card every year.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
How cool is that?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Now?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Christy Nome's defense is that she had no choice because
the dog was untrainable and a danger, although if you
read her book, the cartage doesn't stop there.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Do You put it in a part of a chapter
called bad Day to be a Goat?
Speaker 9 (07:33):
And then after you shot the dog, you quote realized
another unpleasant job needed to be done.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Walking back up.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
To the yard, I spotted our billy goat.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
What did the goat do?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
It sounds like she saw it. I was like, well,
I can't leave any witnesses.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
She could, You could have come on. She could have at.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Least given the goat an opportunity to prove its loyalty,
like here's the gun, you shoot the dog.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Don't forget.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Nobody forced her to tell anybody these stories. These are
the stories she chose to tell to seem tough for
the Maga bass in this book. By the way, was
No Going Back supposed to be the title? Or was
that what her editor said when they read this section?
Are you sure you want this in There's No Going Back?
(08:32):
I mean, what were the alternate titles? For God's sake,
don't include this?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Not sure? If you're kidding? Lol? Were you hacked? I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And by the way, Noah is not letting up on this.
In fact, not only is she willing to shoot her
dog and goat now, she wants to shoot other dogs too.
Speaker 12 (08:53):
Soutzi gooda Governor Christy Noom is not backing down defending
her decision to shoot her own dog now implying Joe
Biden's dog Commander, which no longer lives in the White
House after several biding incidents, should be put down. She
reportedly writes that the first thing she would do if
she got to the White House is make sure Joe
Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello
(09:14):
to cricket.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Dear Lord, this woman has a taste for dog blood.
It's like she thought all dogs go to heaven was
a personal challenge.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Why why.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Why is she going so hard on dog killing? Can
cats vote?
Speaker 14 (09:39):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
What did I miss that?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
For more on this, we go live to Christy Nomes
Ranch with our own Michael Costa. Michael, Michael, How is
Nome's team reacting to this story.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They're not worried at all, Jordan.
Speaker 14 (09:56):
This story might upset the coastal elites, but Nomes speak
are confident that real Americans understand that this is just
life on the farm.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Was that a gunshot I just heard?
Speaker 14 (10:14):
Yeah, it was city boy. You know where do you
think your chicken comes from? It comes from blindfolding the birds,
leading them into a gravel pit, giving them a last cigarette,
and shooting them in the back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Of the head.
Speaker 14 (10:28):
Also, you can stuff your face on ten cent wing night.
It's how we feed America.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
I think we all understand that death is a part
of our food system. What's disturbing is how thoughtlessly Governor
Nome treats her animals.
Speaker 14 (10:41):
Yeah, but Nome's team says, that's a real advantage in politics.
You want a leader who can make hard decisions about
the budget without being preoccupied about whether the kids are
going to be hungry because they don't get a school lunch.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm sorry, was that a cowbean choked?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (11:05):
Here we go, Yeah, reality check for you Left Coast
Soy boys. All right, this is how your steak gets.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
To the supermarket.
Speaker 14 (11:15):
Do you think it magically falls from the sky shrink wrapped? No,
Governor Christinoms sneaks up behind each cow individually with a
piece of piano wire and wraps it tightly around their neck, saying,
sh let it happen.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Let it happen.
Speaker 14 (11:32):
It's simple, honest farm work.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Jordan.
Speaker 15 (11:34):
Okay, okay, okay, I'll admit I have no idea what
that's how it was.
Speaker 14 (11:50):
Well, if you got out of your media bubble once
in a while, you would know that pork is produced.
What an unsuspecting pig gets into his mid size sedan,
starts it up and it explodes. But does Christy nome
get any thanks for ringing up the C four.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, not from the New York City brunch crowd.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Okay, Michael, Michael, Look, I don't accept this explanation. I
think the average rule American treats their animals with more
respect than Christy Nome is saying they do.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
What was that?
Speaker 10 (12:22):
Now?
Speaker 14 (12:23):
Let me guess you think your mailman meat just grows
on trees.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I guess not, Michael Costa. Everybody, come onck we come back.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
We'll fight out who's winning in the latest war in
hip hop. So don't go away, we go back to
(12:54):
the Daily Show. You know, the news is so serious
these days. Really use is a palate cleanser, like a
fun pop culture story. And luckily there's some big news
this weekend.
Speaker 16 (13:06):
Boy, has the rap role been buzzing over the weekend?
The Internet on fire? Are you team Drake or Team
Kendrick Lamar? The feud is red hot, both stars dropping
several Dish tracks over the weekend, both stars gaining tens
of millions of streams in the process. The beef has
been ongoing for several years, quite frankly, but it's reached
(13:27):
a fever pitch right now.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Ooh, rep battle. It's a great way to showcase an
MC's skills.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I gotta says, as a Michigan boy, I loved watching
eminem Slice and DICE's competitors.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's always always.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A great time In fact, I bet Drake is gonna
tease Kendrick about selling more albums, and Kendrick is going
to make some playful jabs about Drake being a Toronto
Raptors fan.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So let the ribbing begin.
Speaker 14 (13:50):
In his diss tracks, Drake claims Kendrick abuses and cheats
on this fiance, while Kendrick accuses Drake of being a pedophile.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Oh that got dark. Uh.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
We went from zero to epstein in about one weekend.
This beef is really out of control and it doesn't
look like it's calming down anytime soon. Kendrick is probably
in the studio right now trying to figure out something
that rhymes with killed.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
John benet Ramsay.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
So for more on this, we go live out to
the streets with our own Josh Johnson.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Don Dods.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Who would you say is winning this beef? Nope, pass, no,
thank you. I don't want to get.
Speaker 17 (14:41):
Dragged into this at all. All these dudes do is
research and destroy. Apparently this is short for dissertation, okay,
And I don't need anybody looking me up and rapping
about how I took my cousin to sing your prom
or that I pissed my bed until singor prom all Right,
I just want to do my job and rest my
head in whatever safe house they got j cole In.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Okay, I mean I see your point.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
This has got to be one of the most brutal
rap beefs in history.
Speaker 17 (15:09):
Well, hold on, let's not get crazy. I mean, remember
how rap beefs used to be. I mean, remember Biggie
and Tupac. There's a reason that the last time you
saw Pac.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Was in hologram form.
Speaker 17 (15:19):
All right, what's happening now is nothing compared to back then,
because hip hop has matured in the nineties, it was
a future girl.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
How about that now?
Speaker 17 (15:28):
It's I don't think you're emotionally available as a father
and husband due to your general lack of vulnerability, which
leaves me with no choice but the fucking.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Girl, how about that?
Speaker 9 (15:47):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
All right, okay, So you're saying as ugly as this
is getting, at least it's not spilling into violence.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Correct.
Speaker 17 (15:55):
In fact, I wish all global conflicts were like hip
hop beefs Middle East Russia, Ukraine instead of missiles. Wouldn't
you want to see Zelensky release a track saying Putin
is on ozembic or that he learned Brazilian jiu jitsu
because he got Brazilian butt lift, or that Putin's not
black enough to say nigga you know what I mean,
(16:18):
or whatever the Russian version of that is.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
You really think you could replace wars with beefs?
Speaker 17 (16:24):
Absolutely forget abroad even at home. Wouldn't the national anthem
be hotter if it was a dish track against England,
like no taxation without responentation.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's already half a bar right there. Now?
Speaker 17 (16:37):
You just need something like you eat beans on toasts
like some broke ass hose instead of shooting at Britain,
the Founding Fathers should have been spitting out oh like
a Hamilton, Not like that?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Okay, well, Josh, if everything being a rap battle, the
escalate situations, why are you so afraid to just pick
a side between Drake and Kendrick? I mean because you
tell me all the time how you love Drake's music
and he makes you feel safe to talk in the shower,
and how you like to pop ass to his beat
so it makes you feel like.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
A bad bitch. I think you said no, no, no,
no no no no no no no don't.
Speaker 17 (17:23):
Well, thanks a lot, Jordan, you gave him plenty. Kendrick
just dropped a song and the cover art is me
slow dancing at singer.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Oh my god, I gotta call my cousin Josh Johnson. Everyone,
we come back, Jonathan Hike.
Speaker 18 (17:37):
We're enjoining me on the show, so don't go away.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Welcome back to the Daily Show.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I guess Tonight is a social psychologist who teaches atic
A leadership at New York University. He's here to talk
about his latest best selling book, The Anxious Generation. Please welcome,
Jonathan Heite. Jonathan, I see people walking all over Brooklyn
(18:25):
holding this book. It's talking about the great rewiring. Talk
to me, what is the great rewiring?
Speaker 19 (18:31):
So something happened to young people born after nineteen ninety five.
All of a sudden in the early twenty tens, their
mental health collapsed. Rates of anxiety and depressions skyrocketed. Self
harm is up one hundred and fifty percent for younger
teen girls. Suicide is up fifty percent. Something happened in
the early twenty tens. And my argument in the book
(18:53):
is a tragedy in two acts. The first act is
the loss of the play based childhood. It's what anybody
over forty and this audience had you were out with
your friends after school, there was nobody supervising. You had
to learn how to work out conflicts, how to face adversity.
So that's what kids have had for ten hundreds of
thousands of years. It's part of being a mammal. You play,
(19:15):
you develop skills. We began to crack down on that
to lock kids up in the nineties, to not let
them out. So we're restricting what they most need, which
is play, from the nineties through the two thousands. But
mental health doesn't collapse. Then it's actually pretty stable. Then
we get act to which is the arrival of the
phone based childhood, and what that is is in twenty ten, everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Had a flip phone.
Speaker 19 (19:38):
The iPhone had come out, but most teens had a
flip phone, no front facing camera, no social media on
the phone, no high speed data. And by twenty twenty
fifteen everyone's got all those other things. Now suddenly everyone
has a smartphone, front facing camera, high speed internet, social
media especially Instagram on the phone, and almost like someone
(19:59):
turned switch. In twenty thirteen, girls in America and many
of the countries suddenly become very anxious, depressed, and self
harming and so that's what the book is about. Something
changed between twenty ten and twenty fifteen, and I'm trying
to explain what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
You're say.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
In an act too, they introduced checkof cell phone and yeah,
and we know what ends up happening after that. You
look at sort of the adolescent brain. How dumb and
stupid is a thirteen year old's brain.
Speaker 19 (20:29):
I would say, not dumb and stupid at all. I
would say it's in the process of remodeling. And it's right,
it's still in the early phases. So we have you know,
children have a brain which is actually almost full size.
By age six, the brain is almost full Oh.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Fact check that. I don't think that's I don't think
that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, can you must be right? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 19 (20:50):
The rest of childhood is not about growth. It's about
picking which neurons surviving, which ones get eliminated. It's all
about wiring up, and that happens slowly in childhood. But
then around age eleven twelve for girls. Puberty starts a
couple years later for boys, and you get this massive,
quick rewiring of the brain to sort of locked down
into an adult configuration. It starts more in the back
of the brain, the prefrontal cortex is the last part
(21:12):
to develop, and so around the age of thirteen, kids
emotional areas are rewiring. They have the beginnings of sexual
urges and lust. They're very emotional passionate, but they don't
have the self control to say, like, no, I'm not
going to spend a fifth hour on TikTok. I'm just
going to keep going because I can't stop myself.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And when does that stop?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Because I'm looking for that, and like forty seven, forty eight,
like when does that part of my brain close off
and I can put the phone down?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Well, in your case, I really can't say.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But for most people, buy a sequel again, twenty five Smart.
Speaker 19 (21:46):
Twenty five is when when the front of cortex is
done rewiring.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I'll tell you when that happens.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Well, it's interesting how you're talking a lot about not
only these phones come in and they change the way
kids think in the way society thinks, but you talk
about raising a child an anti fragile child, and you
make some bold claims in this book, one of which
is right here. You claim that this uh merry go
(22:13):
round playground spinner is the greatest piece of playground equipment
ever invented?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Defend yourself? How is it?
Speaker 10 (22:22):
How?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Okay? What is better?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
I mean, Peter Totter is just a metaphor. You're down,
you know, It's just it's what life is all about,
you know, work with somebody else. One's up, ones down.
There's no way to stay in the middle.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 19 (22:43):
The key Okay, while I have no citations to prove
my claim, the psychological thing I'm trying to get at
there is thrills. This is something I talk a lot
about in chapter three that kids need to play, but
they especially need risky play. Kids literally need to face risk.
If you don't give them risk, they'll find a way
to get it. They'll climb up on walls, they'll climb trees,
(23:04):
if they skateboard, they'll skateboard downstairs. Kids need to sort
of need to have some actual risk. And so, yes,
you're right, a swing a teer strife it's really big
and you could come crashing down.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There is risk.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, it's right to hurt these kids.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, because you have.
Speaker 19 (23:18):
To put kids in a situation where they can get hurt,
because only then do they learn every day how to
not get hurt and what we've done since the nineties
is we've put them in places they are so safe
there's no chance to get hurt, which means they don't
learn how to not get hurt. The human program of
evolution is kids face risk that they're a little scared,
they have to be a little scared, they overcome it,
and then they're more confident the next time around, and
(23:40):
that's the path to adulthood. But we stopped that in
the nineties. We said no more of that. We're going
to keep you over protected forever, and then we're going
to send you to universities like mine, where you're coming
in still not ready for independent living.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Now you take that, and then you also then fast
forward to this modern erarow where kids are obsessed with phones,
they're on the internet, they're on social media sites. Is
there an argument, though, that the anti fragile way in
which kids need to it's not to pull this thing
away that they need to be exposed to the risk
that the internet has. I mean, this is the world
that they're going to be born into. Anyway, shouldn't they
(24:13):
be learning and how to navigate that at an early age?
Speaker 19 (24:16):
YEA in theory, yes, But let's look at say sexuality.
We want them to learn how to have sex. Does
that mean we should give them running start at age eight?
There are certain things that are not appropriate at that time.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I did, just to be clear, I did not say
that this was not that. This is that that's not.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Theoretically yeah, that was yeah, theoretically yes, yes, boy.
Speaker 19 (24:38):
So I've heard this before in theory, like, oh, you know,
why are you why are you? You know you're you're
saying we're we're we need to protect them less in
the real world, but you're saying we need to protect
them more in the virtual world. Isn't that contradictory? Not
at all, Not at all. Kids where mammals, Kids need
to be out playing, rough housing, putting their arms around
each other, touching, out in nature.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
This is the way a lot of us grew up.
Speaker 19 (25:01):
You play outside, and when you put kids in an
environment where everything goes through the phone, as soon as
you give your child a phone, that they're going to
use that. Now, the latest stats are around nine hours
a day they're on their phone, and a lot of
them it's almost all the time because they're always checking.
That blocks out time and nature, time with friends, time
with friends, is down sixty five percent since twenty ten.
(25:21):
Kids need time with friends. Texting and sending emojis doesn't compensate.
It's done instead of time with friends, and that I
think is why as soon as they moved on to
social media and the boys onto multiplayer video games, they
got so lonely. Loneliness surged along with depression and anxiety.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
It's interesting you talk a little bit about in childhood
discover mode versus defensive mode, and even in a world
of the arts. I did improv comedy forever, and I
think the mindset of that is a discovery mindset, right,
and so you're constantly looking for something. It was interesting
in reading this in terms of how to raise a
child and to put them in that open mindset. But
(25:58):
it seems remarkably reflective of just how society feels right now.
And I don't know if that's is because partially because
of our connection to social media and the anxiety that
is there, but do you see parallels there as well
that we are inadvertently too in defensive mode because of
these devices that we have in our pockets, in our hands.
Speaker 19 (26:18):
Well, right now it does seem like everything is going
to hell because it actually is oh that's fine.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Oh kind yeah, it's not just my phone telling me
that that fought great.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
But it wasn't that well, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It wasn't that way in twenty twelve.
Speaker 19 (26:32):
So the fact that this happened in so many countries
at the same time, and a lot of people say, oh, well,
you know the global financial crisis, that must be what
it was like there are real economic difficulties. Yeah, that
was two thousand and eight. Why do the numbers not
begin going up until twelve, twenty thirteen, when the economy
is getting better and better. So you can't make the
claim that things were so terrible in Obama's second term
(26:55):
compared to us first, that all of a sudden, teens,
especially teen girls, suddenly fell off a cliff. That just
doesn't work. So, you know, if this had all started
in twenty twenty, we could say, well, yeah, you know
COVID and all the craziness that's going on, But this
started in twenty twelve. There's no other explanation that anyone's
proposed for why it happened so many countries and hit
girls the hardest.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It was interesting.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You have a chapter in here that looks at also faith,
and I'm an atheist. I know you mentioned that you
are an atheist as well, but you speak to sort
of this God shaped hole. I think it's a Blaze
Pascal quote. God shape hold everybody's every human heart right,
and that this lack of religion is something that is
(27:37):
affecting childhood in a way that I get as an atheist.
I always had my dukes up when that comes about.
You said you were one, so you earned yourself a pass. Okay,
But this lack of sort of religious institutions in this
modern media landscape, how do you see that as something
that's affecting like a childhood.
Speaker 19 (27:53):
So the way to think about this as an atheist
without getting defensive is good luck. No, I've been We've
been working on this professional for many years. I finally
got it down. That's it, okay, just looking at it descriptively. Psychologically,
religious people are a little happier than non religious people.
That's been true for a long time, just as married
people are happier than non married people on average. Your
(28:13):
milers may vary, but people need to be tied in,
locked in in a community. I'm a big fan of
Emil Durkhim, the sociologist is my favorite thinker of all time.
When we're not tied in, locked in, we're free. But
that doesn't make us happy. We don't have we have
nothing to push against, we have no sense of meaning.
(28:34):
It's like if you try to raise a plant not
in the ground, but just like up in the air,
and it just can't be done. And so religious kids
are rooted in traditions, faith, rituals, community, They go to
church every Sunday. The Jewish kids have Shabbat. They literally
can't use electronics for a day. So they were always
happier than the secular kids. But what happens after twenty twelve,
(28:55):
it's quite remarkable. In all the graphs, the religious kids
get a little more anxious and depressed. The secular kids
get much more anxious and depressed. So what I'm saying is,
especially if you're an atheist, you're gonna have to work
much harder. You're gonna be much more intentional about rooting
your kid in stable social relationships. If you give him
an iPad and then he graduates to a phone, and
it's all this network, that network interacting with strangers and
(29:17):
weirdos and bots and ais, that's not a community that's
crazy making it.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Might just be easier to get him to believe in
angels then.
Speaker 19 (29:28):
Take away the iPad.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I've had it there. I do want to You've written
a lot of very interesting books.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
The book you wrote before this, The Coddling of the
American Mind, you co wrote, sort of looked at safetyism
and looked at the college, the college landscape, and now
what we see on college campuses, these protests are breaking out.
I wonder as somebody who looked closely at that and
the ways in which students kind of move through it,
what you see now in these campuses.
Speaker 19 (29:56):
Yeah, so you know, I don't want to comment on
the substance of the protest. This is a complicated issue.
I respect people on all sides. We all agree on campus,
we all agree students have a right to protest constitutionally
protected it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But two things I see going on is one is
the protest.
Speaker 19 (30:12):
And this is what Greg Luki on Off, my co author,
first notice in twenty fourteen that the shouting down of speakers,
the activism't on campus that was really illiberal, and it
was intimidating, and it was stopping people from speaking. It
was based on arguments about fragility about my mental health
or her mental health, Like, we can't let this person
on campus because it'll be dangerous, it'll be harmful. Speech
(30:32):
is violence. So that's a new idea that comes in
with gen Z because they haven't been given an anti
fragile childhood.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
They've been given way too much therapy. They think everything
was trauma.
Speaker 19 (30:42):
So we see that by beginning in twenty fourteen twenty
it wasn't there in twenty twelve. It was a very
new in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, and so the protesters.
Now I don't know the details, but like, you know,
just one thing I read this morning. Someone sent me
a quote from a student at Harvard where she was
in the encampments, and she said, if Harvard cares so
goddamn much about my mental health, why don't they just
divest and you know, do all the things that we're demanding, Like, yeah,
(31:04):
you know, you should do you know, Harvard, you do
these because our mental health is at stake. That's something new,
and it's just not going to get them very far
in political life going forward once they leave campus.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Here, I read this book. I want to do this right?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
How do I helicopter parent my child correctly, Like, what
are some tactical things I can take away from this?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Well, you just push them out of the helicopter.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Sorry, learn how to fly right. That's not anti fradule.
Speaker 19 (31:39):
For birds, it works, it's not for us. So the
key thing, okay, So the key thing to the solution.
So even though you know a lot of my books,
a lot of my writing is very dark about things
are actually going to hell in a lot of ways.
But this one, we can solve it in a year
or two. Because the reason it got so bad so
quickly is that we're trapped in a it's called a
(31:59):
a social trap. It's a collective action trap. The reason
why we all feel we have to give our kid
a smartphone by the time they're ten is because everyone
else did. And your kid says, you know, dad, I'm
the only one. I'm being left out. So we're all
we're you know, we're all doing that. And the reason
why students are spending so much time on TikTok, they say,
is because everyone else is and I have to keep up.
I have to know what's happening. So we're all trapped
(32:21):
in this. What that means is that if if we
decide to escape, we can escape together. So I proposed
them in the book. There's a lot of suggestions, but
four norms that will break these collective action traps. First,
no smartphone before high school. Just clear this out of
the lives of elementary and middle school kids. Send them out,
Give them a flip phone, a dumb phone, a phone,
watch you so you.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Can text them.
Speaker 19 (32:42):
But don't give them the entire internet, including strangers all
over the world who are trying to get at them sexually.
Like this is just craziness. So no smartphone till high school.
The second is no social media till sixteen. You know,
the things that are sent around on social media, the
things they're exposed to, Like I just recently learned about
the video A Cat and a Blend, which was.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Popular while ago.
Speaker 19 (33:01):
I know it is exactly it is exactly what it
sounds like, so you know, and this is just this
is just part of childhood, is hardcore porn, animal cruelty,
beheading videos. So you know, let's just at least wait
till they're sixteen before they see that stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I was gonna say, that's the appropriate age to watch
a Canita blenders at sixteen, It's like, ah, you get
to drive a car, and then what do you ship?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 19 (33:24):
What I'm after here is not the optimum age, it's
what's in a minimum age that we could actually all
do together, because that's the key. If most of us
do this, we solve the problem. The third norm is
phone free schools. This is the most powerful one that
we can do instantly. So if you're watching this and
you have kids that go to school that lets the
kids keep the phone in the pocket, send well, buy
(33:45):
a copy of my book for the principal.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Note.
Speaker 19 (33:48):
You know I have videos, Send them a video of
my talks on phone free schools. Every school needs to
go phone free by September. The phones are they don't
just make the kids anxious and lonely, they make them
less intelligent. Test scores have been drop around the world
since twenty twelve. Once the kids bring a phone in school,
they're doing this they're not.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Listening to the teacher.
Speaker 19 (34:05):
So get rid of phones in schools. And then the
fourth norm is far more independence, free play, and responsibility
in the real world. We have to so it's not
this is not just about let's take away take away,
it's let's give them a real childhood, the kind of
childhood that us older people, the kind that we look
back on. So if we so, if we love our children,
(34:30):
the best thing we can give them is a real
human childhood. And if we do it together, we can
get this done in the next year or two.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Just give your kids some space, a beer and a
bag of glass. It's a fascinating reading and an important one.
The Anxious generation is available.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Now don it out that It's quite right?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Right back after that, that's our show for tonight now here.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It is a moment of then.
Speaker 13 (35:05):
You know when we learned last week, obviously like all
of you, in her book, that she killed her puppy.
You heard me say that was very, very sad. We
find her comments from yesterday disturbing, We find them absurd,
and here this is a country that loves dogs.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Explore more shows from The Daily Show podcast universe by
searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts. Watch
The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on
Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 10 (35:48):
This has been a Comedy Central podcast
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central is America's
only sorts for news. This is the Daily Shown with
your host, Jordan Clappers.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome to the John Jordan Clipper.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
We got so much to talk about tonight. Donald Trump
is looking for a new vice president. Kendrick and Drake
are at war, and bring your dogs in the house
at night, because Christy Nome is on the loose.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So let's get into adlines.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Let's kick things off right here in New York City,
where Week three of the Donald Trump hush money trial
kicked off with a stern warning for the defendant in chief.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
We just got that decision from the judge on whether
or not Donald Trump has in fact violated his gag
order again. And the judge has decided that yes, Donald
Trump has now violated it for the tenth time, and
he said going forward, if Donald Trump violates it again,
he will consider jail time.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Oh, you've done it now, Donald, If you violate that
gag order for an eleventh time, the judge is gonna
really consider jail time.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I mean, he's strongly.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Contemplating the possibility of consequences for your actions.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Just one more chance.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Look, I get that no judge wants to throw a
former president into the slammer. But Donald Trump has the
mind of a toddler. If there's one thing a toddler understands,
it's that when mom and dad start counting like nine
and a half, nine and three quarters, the brat has
(02:05):
already won. Whether Trump is thrown in jail for a
few days over the gag order or thrown in jail
for a few years for the hush money scandal, He's
still going.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
To be the next president.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So let's get into the latest news and are good.
Look at the polls, everybody. Let's get into the latest
news and our ongoing converence of indecision twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Bright.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now, the presidential race is all about the veepstakes, and
over the weekend, everyone desperate to be Trump's running mate
gathered in mar A Lago.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
For a classic Trump beauty pageant.
Speaker 7 (02:45):
There are a lot of special gifts that are on
Donald Trump's shortlist for VP, and Donald Trump today at
may A Lago during that fundraiser, actually called a series
of them up on stage and praised then.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
About Senator Tim Scott. He said, as a surrogate. He
he's unbelievable. On Congressman Michael Waltz, a man that knows
more about the military When I want to know about
the military, I call him Christy nom somebody that I love.
Senator Mike Lee, I love your haircut, and he's a
good man too. Representative Hunt makes the best commercials. Congressman
(03:18):
Byron Donalds, I like diversity, diversita as you would say,
I like diversita.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Wow subtle.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Byron Donalds, I like diversity. What a clever way to
say that he's black and maybe French.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Diversita sounds like the name of a stripper Trump once
slept with. I have no evidence of that, of course,
maybe because he paid her that hush money. But some
VP candidates are showing more hustle than others, like a
lot of them. Denyed the twenty twenty election results. But
Senator Tim Scott was on TV this weekend pre denying
(03:58):
this year's election results.
Speaker 9 (04:00):
Will you commit to accepting the election results of twenty
twenty four? Bottom line?
Speaker 10 (04:06):
At the end of the day, the forty seventh President
of the United States will be President Donald Trump, and
I'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment.
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Wait wait, senator, yes or no? Yes or no? Will
you accept the election results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
No matter who wins, that is my statement.
Speaker 9 (04:25):
But just yes or no? Will you accept the election
results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 10 (04:31):
I look forward to President Trump being the forty seventh president.
Christ You can ask him multiple.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Times, Senator, just a yes or no answer, So.
Speaker 10 (04:38):
The American people, the American people will make the decision.
Speaker 9 (04:41):
But I don't hear you committee.
Speaker 10 (04:43):
For President Trump. That's that clear.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
This is how humiliating it is to be on Trump's team.
Normal questions become trick questions.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Do you accept the election results?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Should you look directly into an eclipse you? This is
not a hard question.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It's like when the band comes out and says, are
you ready to party? Just say yes and enjoy. Imagine
dragons like a responsible adult.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Come on. Of course.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
One of the top contenders for Trump's VP is South
Dakota Governor Christy nom She's got MAGA credentials, she's got
executive experience, she's got Fox News anchor face. If you
ask me, the race is hers to lose. There's really
nothing she could do to ruin her chances.
Speaker 11 (05:37):
A governor thought to be a contender for Donald Trump's
running mate.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
This November is responding to the.
Speaker 11 (05:42):
Backlash over a story in her new book. It's a
story about shooting her puppy.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Okay, maybe that might hurt her chances. I'm not a
political expert, but I think if I had to give
up politician advice, I would say the top thing is
to not shoot your puppy. The second top thing would
be to not write about shooting your puppy.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Look, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe
maybe she has a good reason.
Speaker 11 (06:14):
In the book, Nome says she shot and killed her
fourteen month old puppy named Cricket for bad behavior.
Speaker 12 (06:20):
Nome describes leading the fourteen month old dog to a
gravel pit to be shot after concluding it was less
than worthless, untrainable, and aggressive.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
As a mom, I made a choice between protecting my
children and protecting them from a dangerous animal that was
killing livestock.
Speaker 13 (06:35):
No posting this response on acts, saying we love animals,
but tough decisions like this happen all the time on
a farm.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
That is not an excuse.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Christina, you can't just go around executing puppies and say, well,
that's life on a farm. It's a farm, not international waters.
And for bad behavior, I mean, even Kuela Devela is
like Jesus.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
At least I was making a coach.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Was there really nothing else that could have been done
with a misbehaving puppy? Training medication? I mean, worst case,
send the dog to a nice family upstate. That's what
my parents said they did with my dog when I
was a kid. And he still sends me a birthday
card every year.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
How cool is that?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Now?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Christy Nome's defense is that she had no choice because
the dog was untrainable and a danger, although if you
read her book, the cartage doesn't stop there.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Do You put it in a part of a chapter
called bad Day to be a Goat?
Speaker 9 (07:33):
And then after you shot the dog, you quote realized
another unpleasant job needed to be done.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Walking back up.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
To the yard, I spotted our billy goat.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
What did the goat do?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
It sounds like she saw it. I was like, well,
I can't leave any witnesses.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
She could, You could have come on. She could have at.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Least given the goat an opportunity to prove its loyalty,
like here's the gun, you shoot the dog.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Don't forget.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Nobody forced her to tell anybody these stories. These are
the stories she chose to tell to seem tough for
the Maga bass in this book. By the way, was
No Going Back supposed to be the title? Or was
that what her editor said when they read this section?
Are you sure you want this in There's No Going Back?
(08:32):
I mean, what were the alternate titles? For God's sake,
don't include this?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Not sure? If you're kidding? Lol? Were you hacked? I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And by the way, Noah is not letting up on this.
In fact, not only is she willing to shoot her
dog and goat now, she wants to shoot other dogs too.
Speaker 12 (08:53):
Soutzi gooda Governor Christy Noom is not backing down defending
her decision to shoot her own dog now implying Joe
Biden's dog Commander, which no longer lives in the White
House after several biding incidents, should be put down. She
reportedly writes that the first thing she would do if
she got to the White House is make sure Joe
Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello
(09:14):
to cricket.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Dear Lord, this woman has a taste for dog blood.
It's like she thought all dogs go to heaven was
a personal challenge.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Why why.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Why is she going so hard on dog killing? Can
cats vote?
Speaker 14 (09:39):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
What did I miss that?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
For more on this, we go live to Christy Nomes
Ranch with our own Michael Costa. Michael, Michael, How is
Nome's team reacting to this story.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They're not worried at all, Jordan.
Speaker 14 (09:56):
This story might upset the coastal elites, but Nomes speak
are confident that real Americans understand that this is just
life on the farm.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Was that a gunshot I just heard?
Speaker 14 (10:14):
Yeah, it was city boy. You know where do you
think your chicken comes from? It comes from blindfolding the birds,
leading them into a gravel pit, giving them a last cigarette,
and shooting them in the back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Of the head.
Speaker 14 (10:28):
Also, you can stuff your face on ten cent wing night.
It's how we feed America.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
I think we all understand that death is a part
of our food system. What's disturbing is how thoughtlessly Governor
Nome treats her animals.
Speaker 14 (10:41):
Yeah, but Nome's team says, that's a real advantage in politics.
You want a leader who can make hard decisions about
the budget without being preoccupied about whether the kids are
going to be hungry because they don't get a school lunch.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm sorry, was that a cowbean choked?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (11:05):
Here we go, Yeah, reality check for you Left Coast
Soy boys. All right, this is how your steak gets.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
To the supermarket.
Speaker 14 (11:15):
Do you think it magically falls from the sky shrink wrapped? No,
Governor Christinoms sneaks up behind each cow individually with a
piece of piano wire and wraps it tightly around their neck, saying,
sh let it happen.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Let it happen.
Speaker 14 (11:32):
It's simple, honest farm work.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Jordan.
Speaker 15 (11:34):
Okay, okay, okay, I'll admit I have no idea what
that's how it was.
Speaker 14 (11:50):
Well, if you got out of your media bubble once
in a while, you would know that pork is produced.
What an unsuspecting pig gets into his mid size sedan,
starts it up and it explodes. But does Christy nome
get any thanks for ringing up the C four.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, not from the New York City brunch crowd.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Okay, Michael, Michael, Look, I don't accept this explanation. I
think the average rule American treats their animals with more
respect than Christy Nome is saying they do.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
What was that?
Speaker 10 (12:22):
Now?
Speaker 14 (12:23):
Let me guess you think your mailman meat just grows
on trees.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I guess not, Michael Costa. Everybody, come onck we come back.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
We'll fight out who's winning in the latest war in
hip hop. So don't go away, we go back to
(12:54):
the Daily Show. You know, the news is so serious
these days. Really use is a palate cleanser, like a
fun pop culture story. And luckily there's some big news
this weekend.
Speaker 16 (13:06):
Boy, has the rap role been buzzing over the weekend?
The Internet on fire? Are you team Drake or Team
Kendrick Lamar? The feud is red hot, both stars dropping
several Dish tracks over the weekend, both stars gaining tens
of millions of streams in the process. The beef has
been ongoing for several years, quite frankly, but it's reached
(13:27):
a fever pitch right now.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Ooh, rep battle. It's a great way to showcase an
MC's skills.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I gotta says, as a Michigan boy, I loved watching
eminem Slice and DICE's competitors.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's always always.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A great time In fact, I bet Drake is gonna
tease Kendrick about selling more albums, and Kendrick is going
to make some playful jabs about Drake being a Toronto
Raptors fan.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So let the ribbing begin.
Speaker 14 (13:50):
In his diss tracks, Drake claims Kendrick abuses and cheats
on this fiance, while Kendrick accuses Drake of being a pedophile.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Oh that got dark. Uh.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
We went from zero to epstein in about one weekend.
This beef is really out of control and it doesn't
look like it's calming down anytime soon. Kendrick is probably
in the studio right now trying to figure out something
that rhymes with killed.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
John benet Ramsay.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
So for more on this, we go live out to
the streets with our own Josh Johnson.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Don Dods.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Who would you say is winning this beef? Nope, pass, no,
thank you. I don't want to get.
Speaker 17 (14:41):
Dragged into this at all. All these dudes do is
research and destroy. Apparently this is short for dissertation, okay,
And I don't need anybody looking me up and rapping
about how I took my cousin to sing your prom
or that I pissed my bed until singor prom all Right,
I just want to do my job and rest my
head in whatever safe house they got j cole In.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Okay, I mean I see your point.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
This has got to be one of the most brutal
rap beefs in history.
Speaker 17 (15:09):
Well, hold on, let's not get crazy. I mean, remember
how rap beefs used to be. I mean, remember Biggie
and Tupac. There's a reason that the last time you
saw Pac.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Was in hologram form.
Speaker 17 (15:19):
All right, what's happening now is nothing compared to back then,
because hip hop has matured in the nineties, it was
a future girl.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
How about that now?
Speaker 17 (15:28):
It's I don't think you're emotionally available as a father
and husband due to your general lack of vulnerability, which
leaves me with no choice but the fucking.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Girl, how about that?
Speaker 9 (15:47):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
All right, okay, So you're saying as ugly as this
is getting, at least it's not spilling into violence.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Correct.
Speaker 17 (15:55):
In fact, I wish all global conflicts were like hip
hop beefs Middle East Russia, Ukraine instead of missiles. Wouldn't
you want to see Zelensky release a track saying Putin
is on ozembic or that he learned Brazilian jiu jitsu
because he got Brazilian butt lift, or that Putin's not
black enough to say nigga you know what I mean,
(16:18):
or whatever the Russian version of that is.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
You really think you could replace wars with beefs?
Speaker 17 (16:24):
Absolutely forget abroad even at home. Wouldn't the national anthem
be hotter if it was a dish track against England,
like no taxation without responentation.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's already half a bar right there. Now?
Speaker 17 (16:37):
You just need something like you eat beans on toasts
like some broke ass hose instead of shooting at Britain,
the Founding Fathers should have been spitting out oh like
a Hamilton, Not like that?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Okay, well, Josh, if everything being a rap battle, the
escalate situations, why are you so afraid to just pick
a side between Drake and Kendrick? I mean because you
tell me all the time how you love Drake's music
and he makes you feel safe to talk in the shower,
and how you like to pop ass to his beat
so it makes you feel like.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
A bad bitch. I think you said no, no, no,
no no no no no no no don't.
Speaker 17 (17:23):
Well, thanks a lot, Jordan, you gave him plenty. Kendrick
just dropped a song and the cover art is me
slow dancing at singer.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Oh my god, I gotta call my cousin Josh Johnson. Everyone,
we come back, Jonathan Hike.
Speaker 18 (17:37):
We're enjoining me on the show, so don't go away.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Welcome back to the Daily Show.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I guess Tonight is a social psychologist who teaches atic
A leadership at New York University. He's here to talk
about his latest best selling book, The Anxious Generation. Please welcome,
Jonathan Heite. Jonathan, I see people walking all over Brooklyn
(18:25):
holding this book. It's talking about the great rewiring. Talk
to me, what is the great rewiring?
Speaker 19 (18:31):
So something happened to young people born after nineteen ninety five.
All of a sudden in the early twenty tens, their
mental health collapsed. Rates of anxiety and depressions skyrocketed. Self
harm is up one hundred and fifty percent for younger
teen girls. Suicide is up fifty percent. Something happened in
the early twenty tens. And my argument in the book
(18:53):
is a tragedy in two acts. The first act is
the loss of the play based childhood. It's what anybody
over forty and this audience had you were out with
your friends after school, there was nobody supervising. You had
to learn how to work out conflicts, how to face adversity.
So that's what kids have had for ten hundreds of
thousands of years. It's part of being a mammal. You play,
(19:15):
you develop skills. We began to crack down on that
to lock kids up in the nineties, to not let
them out. So we're restricting what they most need, which
is play, from the nineties through the two thousands. But
mental health doesn't collapse. Then it's actually pretty stable. Then
we get act to which is the arrival of the
phone based childhood, and what that is is in twenty ten, everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Had a flip phone.
Speaker 19 (19:38):
The iPhone had come out, but most teens had a
flip phone, no front facing camera, no social media on
the phone, no high speed data. And by twenty twenty
fifteen everyone's got all those other things. Now suddenly everyone
has a smartphone, front facing camera, high speed internet, social
media especially Instagram on the phone, and almost like someone
(19:59):
turned switch. In twenty thirteen, girls in America and many
of the countries suddenly become very anxious, depressed, and self
harming and so that's what the book is about. Something
changed between twenty ten and twenty fifteen, and I'm trying
to explain what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
You're say.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
In an act too, they introduced checkof cell phone and yeah,
and we know what ends up happening after that. You
look at sort of the adolescent brain. How dumb and
stupid is a thirteen year old's brain.
Speaker 19 (20:29):
I would say, not dumb and stupid at all. I
would say it's in the process of remodeling. And it's right,
it's still in the early phases. So we have you know,
children have a brain which is actually almost full size.
By age six, the brain is almost full Oh.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Fact check that. I don't think that's I don't think
that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, can you must be right? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 19 (20:50):
The rest of childhood is not about growth. It's about
picking which neurons surviving, which ones get eliminated. It's all
about wiring up, and that happens slowly in childhood. But
then around age eleven twelve for girls. Puberty starts a
couple years later for boys, and you get this massive,
quick rewiring of the brain to sort of locked down
into an adult configuration. It starts more in the back
of the brain, the prefrontal cortex is the last part
(21:12):
to develop, and so around the age of thirteen, kids
emotional areas are rewiring. They have the beginnings of sexual
urges and lust. They're very emotional passionate, but they don't
have the self control to say, like, no, I'm not
going to spend a fifth hour on TikTok. I'm just
going to keep going because I can't stop myself.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And when does that stop?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Because I'm looking for that, and like forty seven, forty eight,
like when does that part of my brain close off
and I can put the phone down?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Well, in your case, I really can't say.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But for most people, buy a sequel again, twenty five Smart.
Speaker 19 (21:46):
Twenty five is when when the front of cortex is
done rewiring.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I'll tell you when that happens.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Well, it's interesting how you're talking a lot about not
only these phones come in and they change the way
kids think in the way society thinks, but you talk
about raising a child an anti fragile child, and you
make some bold claims in this book, one of which
is right here. You claim that this uh merry go
(22:13):
round playground spinner is the greatest piece of playground equipment
ever invented?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Defend yourself? How is it?
Speaker 10 (22:22):
How?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Okay? What is better?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
I mean, Peter Totter is just a metaphor. You're down,
you know, It's just it's what life is all about,
you know, work with somebody else. One's up, ones down.
There's no way to stay in the middle.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 19 (22:43):
The key Okay, while I have no citations to prove
my claim, the psychological thing I'm trying to get at
there is thrills. This is something I talk a lot
about in chapter three that kids need to play, but
they especially need risky play. Kids literally need to face risk.
If you don't give them risk, they'll find a way
to get it. They'll climb up on walls, they'll climb trees,
(23:04):
if they skateboard, they'll skateboard downstairs. Kids need to sort
of need to have some actual risk. And so, yes,
you're right, a swing a teer strife it's really big
and you could come crashing down.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There is risk.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, it's right to hurt these kids.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, because you have.
Speaker 19 (23:18):
To put kids in a situation where they can get hurt,
because only then do they learn every day how to
not get hurt and what we've done since the nineties
is we've put them in places they are so safe
there's no chance to get hurt, which means they don't
learn how to not get hurt. The human program of
evolution is kids face risk that they're a little scared,
they have to be a little scared, they overcome it,
and then they're more confident the next time around, and
(23:40):
that's the path to adulthood. But we stopped that in
the nineties. We said no more of that. We're going
to keep you over protected forever, and then we're going
to send you to universities like mine, where you're coming
in still not ready for independent living.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Now you take that, and then you also then fast
forward to this modern erarow where kids are obsessed with phones,
they're on the internet, they're on social media sites. Is
there an argument, though, that the anti fragile way in
which kids need to it's not to pull this thing
away that they need to be exposed to the risk
that the internet has. I mean, this is the world
that they're going to be born into. Anyway, shouldn't they
(24:13):
be learning and how to navigate that at an early age?
Speaker 19 (24:16):
YEA in theory, yes, But let's look at say sexuality.
We want them to learn how to have sex. Does
that mean we should give them running start at age eight?
There are certain things that are not appropriate at that time.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I did, just to be clear, I did not say
that this was not that. This is that that's not.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Theoretically yeah, that was yeah, theoretically yes, yes, boy.
Speaker 19 (24:38):
So I've heard this before in theory, like, oh, you know,
why are you why are you? You know you're you're
saying we're we're we need to protect them less in
the real world, but you're saying we need to protect
them more in the virtual world. Isn't that contradictory? Not
at all, Not at all. Kids where mammals, Kids need
to be out playing, rough housing, putting their arms around
each other, touching, out in nature.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
This is the way a lot of us grew up.
Speaker 19 (25:01):
You play outside, and when you put kids in an
environment where everything goes through the phone, as soon as
you give your child a phone, that they're going to
use that. Now, the latest stats are around nine hours
a day they're on their phone, and a lot of
them it's almost all the time because they're always checking.
That blocks out time and nature, time with friends, time
with friends, is down sixty five percent since twenty ten.
(25:21):
Kids need time with friends. Texting and sending emojis doesn't compensate.
It's done instead of time with friends, and that I
think is why as soon as they moved on to
social media and the boys onto multiplayer video games, they
got so lonely. Loneliness surged along with depression and anxiety.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
It's interesting you talk a little bit about in childhood
discover mode versus defensive mode, and even in a world
of the arts. I did improv comedy forever, and I
think the mindset of that is a discovery mindset, right,
and so you're constantly looking for something. It was interesting
in reading this in terms of how to raise a
child and to put them in that open mindset. But
(25:58):
it seems remarkably reflective of just how society feels right now.
And I don't know if that's is because partially because
of our connection to social media and the anxiety that
is there, but do you see parallels there as well
that we are inadvertently too in defensive mode because of
these devices that we have in our pockets, in our hands.
Speaker 19 (26:18):
Well, right now it does seem like everything is going
to hell because it actually is oh that's fine.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Oh kind yeah, it's not just my phone telling me
that that fought great.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
But it wasn't that well, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It wasn't that way in twenty twelve.
Speaker 19 (26:32):
So the fact that this happened in so many countries
at the same time, and a lot of people say, oh, well,
you know the global financial crisis, that must be what
it was like there are real economic difficulties. Yeah, that
was two thousand and eight. Why do the numbers not
begin going up until twelve, twenty thirteen, when the economy
is getting better and better. So you can't make the
claim that things were so terrible in Obama's second term
(26:55):
compared to us first, that all of a sudden, teens,
especially teen girls, suddenly fell off a cliff. That just
doesn't work. So, you know, if this had all started
in twenty twenty, we could say, well, yeah, you know
COVID and all the craziness that's going on, But this
started in twenty twelve. There's no other explanation that anyone's
proposed for why it happened so many countries and hit
girls the hardest.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It was interesting.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You have a chapter in here that looks at also faith,
and I'm an atheist. I know you mentioned that you
are an atheist as well, but you speak to sort
of this God shaped hole. I think it's a Blaze
Pascal quote. God shape hold everybody's every human heart right,
and that this lack of religion is something that is
(27:37):
affecting childhood in a way that I get as an atheist.
I always had my dukes up when that comes about.
You said you were one, so you earned yourself a pass. Okay,
But this lack of sort of religious institutions in this
modern media landscape, how do you see that as something
that's affecting like a childhood.
Speaker 19 (27:53):
So the way to think about this as an atheist
without getting defensive is good luck. No, I've been We've
been working on this professional for many years. I finally
got it down. That's it, okay, just looking at it descriptively. Psychologically,
religious people are a little happier than non religious people.
That's been true for a long time, just as married
people are happier than non married people on average. Your
(28:13):
milers may vary, but people need to be tied in,
locked in in a community. I'm a big fan of
Emil Durkhim, the sociologist is my favorite thinker of all time.
When we're not tied in, locked in, we're free. But
that doesn't make us happy. We don't have we have
nothing to push against, we have no sense of meaning.
(28:34):
It's like if you try to raise a plant not
in the ground, but just like up in the air,
and it just can't be done. And so religious kids
are rooted in traditions, faith, rituals, community, They go to
church every Sunday. The Jewish kids have Shabbat. They literally
can't use electronics for a day. So they were always
happier than the secular kids. But what happens after twenty twelve,
(28:55):
it's quite remarkable. In all the graphs, the religious kids
get a little more anxious and depressed. The secular kids
get much more anxious and depressed. So what I'm saying is,
especially if you're an atheist, you're gonna have to work
much harder. You're gonna be much more intentional about rooting
your kid in stable social relationships. If you give him
an iPad and then he graduates to a phone, and
it's all this network, that network interacting with strangers and
(29:17):
weirdos and bots and ais, that's not a community that's
crazy making it.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Might just be easier to get him to believe in
angels then.
Speaker 19 (29:28):
Take away the iPad.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I've had it there. I do want to You've written
a lot of very interesting books.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
The book you wrote before this, The Coddling of the
American Mind, you co wrote, sort of looked at safetyism
and looked at the college, the college landscape, and now
what we see on college campuses, these protests are breaking out.
I wonder as somebody who looked closely at that and
the ways in which students kind of move through it,
what you see now in these campuses.
Speaker 19 (29:56):
Yeah, so you know, I don't want to comment on
the substance of the protest. This is a complicated issue.
I respect people on all sides. We all agree on campus,
we all agree students have a right to protest constitutionally
protected it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But two things I see going on is one is
the protest.
Speaker 19 (30:12):
And this is what Greg Luki on Off, my co author,
first notice in twenty fourteen that the shouting down of speakers,
the activism't on campus that was really illiberal, and it
was intimidating, and it was stopping people from speaking. It
was based on arguments about fragility about my mental health
or her mental health, Like, we can't let this person
on campus because it'll be dangerous, it'll be harmful. Speech
(30:32):
is violence. So that's a new idea that comes in
with gen Z because they haven't been given an anti
fragile childhood.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
They've been given way too much therapy. They think everything
was trauma.
Speaker 19 (30:42):
So we see that by beginning in twenty fourteen twenty
it wasn't there in twenty twelve. It was a very
new in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, and so the protesters.
Now I don't know the details, but like, you know,
just one thing I read this morning. Someone sent me
a quote from a student at Harvard where she was
in the encampments, and she said, if Harvard cares so
goddamn much about my mental health, why don't they just
divest and you know, do all the things that we're demanding, Like, yeah,
(31:04):
you know, you should do you know, Harvard, you do
these because our mental health is at stake. That's something new,
and it's just not going to get them very far
in political life going forward once they leave campus.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Here, I read this book. I want to do this right?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
How do I helicopter parent my child correctly, Like, what
are some tactical things I can take away from this?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Well, you just push them out of the helicopter.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Sorry, learn how to fly right. That's not anti fradule.
Speaker 19 (31:39):
For birds, it works, it's not for us. So the
key thing, okay, So the key thing to the solution.
So even though you know a lot of my books,
a lot of my writing is very dark about things
are actually going to hell in a lot of ways.
But this one, we can solve it in a year
or two. Because the reason it got so bad so
quickly is that we're trapped in a it's called a
(31:59):
a social trap. It's a collective action trap. The reason
why we all feel we have to give our kid
a smartphone by the time they're ten is because everyone
else did. And your kid says, you know, dad, I'm
the only one. I'm being left out. So we're all
we're you know, we're all doing that. And the reason
why students are spending so much time on TikTok, they say,
is because everyone else is and I have to keep up.
I have to know what's happening. So we're all trapped
(32:21):
in this. What that means is that if if we
decide to escape, we can escape together. So I proposed
them in the book. There's a lot of suggestions, but
four norms that will break these collective action traps. First,
no smartphone before high school. Just clear this out of
the lives of elementary and middle school kids. Send them out,
Give them a flip phone, a dumb phone, a phone,
watch you so you.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Can text them.
Speaker 19 (32:42):
But don't give them the entire internet, including strangers all
over the world who are trying to get at them sexually.
Like this is just craziness. So no smartphone till high school.
The second is no social media till sixteen. You know,
the things that are sent around on social media, the
things they're exposed to, Like I just recently learned about
the video A Cat and a Blend, which was.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Popular while ago.
Speaker 19 (33:01):
I know it is exactly it is exactly what it
sounds like, so you know, and this is just this
is just part of childhood, is hardcore porn, animal cruelty,
beheading videos. So you know, let's just at least wait
till they're sixteen before they see that stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I was gonna say, that's the appropriate age to watch
a Canita blenders at sixteen, It's like, ah, you get
to drive a car, and then what do you ship?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 19 (33:24):
What I'm after here is not the optimum age, it's
what's in a minimum age that we could actually all
do together, because that's the key. If most of us
do this, we solve the problem. The third norm is
phone free schools. This is the most powerful one that
we can do instantly. So if you're watching this and
you have kids that go to school that lets the
kids keep the phone in the pocket, send well, buy
(33:45):
a copy of my book for the principal.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Note.
Speaker 19 (33:48):
You know I have videos, Send them a video of
my talks on phone free schools. Every school needs to
go phone free by September. The phones are they don't
just make the kids anxious and lonely, they make them
less intelligent. Test scores have been drop around the world
since twenty twelve. Once the kids bring a phone in school,
they're doing this they're not.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Listening to the teacher.
Speaker 19 (34:05):
So get rid of phones in schools. And then the
fourth norm is far more independence, free play, and responsibility
in the real world. We have to so it's not
this is not just about let's take away take away,
it's let's give them a real childhood, the kind of
childhood that us older people, the kind that we look
back on. So if we so, if we love our children,
(34:30):
the best thing we can give them is a real
human childhood. And if we do it together, we can
get this done in the next year or two.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Just give your kids some space, a beer and a
bag of glass. It's a fascinating reading and an important one.
The Anxious generation is available.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Now don it out that It's quite right?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Right back after that, that's our show for tonight now here.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It is a moment of then.
Speaker 13 (35:05):
You know when we learned last week, obviously like all
of you, in her book, that she killed her puppy.
You heard me say that was very, very sad. We
find her comments from yesterday disturbing, We find them absurd,
and here this is a country that loves dogs.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Explore more shows from The Daily Show podcast universe by
searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts. Watch
The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on
Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 10 (35:48):
This has been a Comedy Central podcast
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