August 5, 2024 • 25 mins
Ronny Chieng and Lewis Black unite for a self-described Grievance Edition of Behind the Show. Lewis takes Ronny back to the early days of The Daily Show and the first iterations of Lewis’s rants. They discuss how Back In Black evolved with the show and American culture throughout the years, how Lewis built his stand-up career as TDS took off, and whether political satire stands a chance against today’s insane news environment.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello and welcome to The Daily Show Ears edition. This
is Ryan Chang, correspondent on The Daily Show, and today
we are joined by the longest running Daily Show contributor
of all time, the one and only Great Lewis Black yayyy.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The crowd goruggles.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
They are they're listening, and the clapping in the subway,
in the cars right now. So good to see you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's great to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, thanks for joining me. I just get into it.
I mean, you, by your own words, are older than shit,
and you've been here a long time. You've been here
since before John Stewart. Yeah, I want to ask you
about you seeing the show change, specifically, not just the
show itself, but like it's place in pop culture, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But they brought on other people and sullied my work,
you know. I mean that was it for starters. It
was kind of like, really, there's gonna be other folks here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So the airing of grievances began on the year's edition.
Uh yeah, so you've been here, like I read to
prepare for this. I actually read the Oral History of
a Daily Show, which you're featured in. Yes, I would
say not featured enough in because but I always find
that style of storytelling, anecdotal storytelling, very interesting by people
(01:32):
who are there, and sometimes they contradict each other.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And then I found out things I didn't know. Yeah,
the other thing, but really yeah, yeah, you know. But
it started, I mean it was literally Liz Winstead knew me.
I was working in clubs and it was one of
those things with clubs in New York City, in New
York City, and people were going, got, I can't believe
you don't have an agent, you know, you really can't
(01:55):
you find an agent? Can't you do this? But meanwhile,
Liz Winstead knew me and a guy named Hang Gallo
who wrote initially for the Daily News I think it was,
and wrote about comedy way back when, and he became
a producer on the show, and they both approached me
because I was sitting around and tons of material and
(02:15):
nobody had heard it, and I hadn't done any specials
I'd done really just maybe I'd done a couple of
you know shows, you know, I don't even know if
I'd done an evening at the Improv.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So at that point, how many years into stand up
were you?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I'd been doing stand up on and off. But I
was really kind of committed to stand up at that
point for about five six years.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Five six years yea where I.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Kind of went from being a playwright to putting myself
full time into doing stand up. Sure, so they said
do you want to do this? I said great.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Just to give people a says do you mind me asking? Well,
what year this was? Roughly?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The year was ninety six, ninety seven, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I remember that. Yeah, remember Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, well, yeah, that was like the fortieth year that
the Wizards.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
My team was in the.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Dumps, so called the Bullets at that point, Yes, Bullet.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
The real name is opposed to that idiotic wizard stupid
fuck thing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And they saw you around the traps, presumably Liz and.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Liz and I knew each other
pretty well, and she had this idea, and the great
breakthrough was is that it's a show that I think
I had tried to sell a show like it. You know,
how are we going to sell this kind of show?
She sold it, which is huge right at the time,
and because I was hearing things like I couldn't be
(03:40):
on Letterman because the guy who was the producer said,
you know, politics aren't funny.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, and so the grievances continue here and this the
grievance addition. Yeah, so you were kind of doing at
that time, you were doing contemporary political maybe like what's
it called, like very topical.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I was doing topical stuff, and I was doing also
other things like about Valentine's Day and about you know,
the holidays and the general stuff that a comic would
do and pick up on and you know, the candy
corn stuff and all that. So they basically bring me on.
There's no audience. What was at the time PBS Studios
(04:22):
in New York City, and they just sat me at
a desk and they had a background of people walking
around as if I was in some sort of a newsroom.
Right then they just and they I came in and improved.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Oh, a segment or the whole show.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
No, just the segment. At that time, Kilbourne was in charge,
Craig and he was I mean, he had the desk,
and so I would come in it was once every
two weeks, and I would improv stuff, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And they saw what they saw in you for the show?
Was it because I know you as this prolific social
common tat, very very topical. That's the kind of thing
which most comics back then probably would not. Most comics
would probably be a bit less prolific and maybe a
bit less topical, because you want to do stuff that's evergreen.
(05:12):
And so do you think that's what attracted them to you?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Show I had all this material. Nobody knew me. I
had all this kind of material that nobody.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Had ever heard.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, then, how did they know about that?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Because they both had seen me in clubs. Liz was
a comedian, Okay, okay, so she had seen me a
ton and we'd done done all the stuff you do
together's let's do a benefit for m Okay, I'll see
you there. And Hank had seen me a ton, and
so they knew that I had them, you know, And
it was really like, okay, we're going to do this
and we don't know how long we'll be on let's
(05:44):
do you want to try this? Yes? And nobody knew
what it would be like. And I did it, and
then I would do my bit. I mean it's you
you're great at there's too, you're great at improblem, Ronnie.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean you are I'm specialists, that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And then you come on and do it. And then
they come up and they go, keep this that that
was wrong, and let's try it again. And then I
would do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Oh that's how they did in the day. No teleprompter,
no nothing, just go it like, let's keep what we liked. Yeah,
and then let's keep doing it.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And now let's do it again, and let's do it again.
I do it like three or four times. By the
fourth time, i'd have it right. Then they brought an
audience about like three months into it maybe. Then we
went on to the teleprompter. So then I would sit
down and write it, write it with Hank, and this
is the two of you, just the two of us.
I'd write it, give it to Hank, can't it help?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Edit it?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Liz would at it, and then I go on and
I put it in the tele prompt. I'd read it.
There was an audience that it up becomes a different
kind of a thing completely.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You're playing off the crowd. You're playing off the crowd.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
The crowd, yeah, and there was a probably a smaller
audience than we had now and then and I kept
doing that, and and that blossomed into Back in Black
when I did the thing that I will advise against.
I got really drunk at a Christmas party. We had
a few years into it, and you know, it'd be
(07:04):
really great if I could. What I'd like to do
is to do is to do you know, news clips
and stuff like that instead of just kind of doing
this just doing my editorials. Could we put it in
relationship to the news. And they took it. They had
at that point access and didn't have to pay for
(07:25):
all sorts of clips. So I didn't get those clips.
I didn't get the news clips. I got, you know,
squirrels on water skis, Oh right, right, right right, that's
the stuff I get. And I was like, son of
a bitch, and we're gonna call it back in black. Fine,
that's great.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And so you wanted something meteor more dare I say,
relevant politically, but they kept giving you the kind.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Of but then they just weak. They had a ton
of this stuff. And I mean, for me, great because
it was on. I was on every two weeks, so
it was still great in the sense looking at you know,
the Veritable Gift Tours. Yes, but I mean I'm going okay,
And I had Hank was in there, my producer and
a writer gifted writer, really good at punchlines, a couple
(08:12):
of the other Like now, the guys who work with me,
the writers, they would come in and we'd look at
this stuff and then we put it together. They we
would all collect the stuff. Then I would go ahead
and write stuff. Then they would write their stuff, and
we combine it all together, and I'd do that, and
that's what evolved into where we are now.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Right. But it was kind of you pursuing something with
more teeth. You were like, I wanted to say something
a bit more teeth, but they kind of saw you
as like the maybe the Andy Rooney segment on the show,
kind of like the comic relief on a comic show,
which is kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And also yeah, and they were, you know, it was
another way to get at it. And then also when
John comes in, so what he starts to do is
create an arc with each show. So then at this
point we're going to use this, this is when we're
going to use Lewis, And so all of a sudden,
they began to pick and shoes. I ended up doing
less shows, but it was still fine because now because
(09:12):
of doing the show my as you've noticed, you know,
all of a sudden, my stock rises. So now I'm
touring around the country. I become because of the because
of the Daily Show, and now I'm getting specials on
Comedy Central. Now I'm in the face of Comedy Central
along with David Tell. Right then we go on tour
(09:35):
with Mitch Hedberg and Dave and I and then boom,
I'm now isn't just touring amazing?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, and so you I guess it's fair to say
the Daily Show did break break you in obviously working hard.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, and it and uh the Conan Conan. I did
a ton of Conan's at the time too, that I broke,
it broke and then and Conan and and also the
specials I did because also.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
There again, now I'm working.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Nights like if you do with clubs and putting together
you know, these half hour specials.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, and then you got HBO specials after that, and yeah,
I guess it was taking off. You kind of skipped
a few step steps that because you know, you said,
like when you first joined the show with Craig Kilbourne,
it was like you didn't even know if the show
was gonna last. And then just before John joins, there's
a gap where Craig Kilbourne. The show actually did grow
(10:27):
and it became more professional. I had more resources, right, Yeah,
and then when John joined you, you were quoted in
the book, A Daily Show Book that you said, like
it made sense to you why they hired him. You
can see that. And then you were like, really, chef
auditioned me.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But there's always agreement.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, did you know, like when he took over, you
could You're like, Okay, this is gonna be better now,
well I.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Knew it'd be better. I didn't know what it would explode, Okay,
but it also you know the thing that you can't
really teach anyone and you've been through it. Anybody's experienced
it breaks in their career. It's time and place, and
a lot of it has to do with timing. Yes,
and so John walks in at the point where there's
(11:14):
an explosion a cable. So now literally and I see
it as I'm performing around the United States. How do
you perform in Biloxi? Well, here's how because they see
the same things as we see everywhere. That also had
a huge effect on the Daily Show in the way
in which people you could see it, and because now
they have an understanding much like they do with hacks
(11:36):
and a whole bunch of other kind of professions that
they know behind the scenes. And so now they kind
of have a sense of what news is about. They
now have a character.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
They have context full what we're making fun of.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, and then John was able to coalesce it and
he had really a great eye for talent.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
He sought it and brought in execute. Yeah, take a
quick break and we'll be right back. Well back with
Lewis Black. So at that point when John joined and
it was kind of, you know, things were really kicking off.
(12:18):
I mean, much like the Bulls. I guess it's like
ninety five Bulls when every time you came back, did
you feel like it was growing bigger and bigger and
you're like, oh, this cultural phenomenon and the production.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I mean it took a while, but I mean you
could feel it. You literally if you could feel it coming.
It was kind of one of those things that you
felt you could see the wave in the distance and
you went well and then all of a sudden you pay.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
It right right. And I think it was a perfect
mix of at that time, there wasn't you know, a
ton of content that is diluting the pool. There's only
so many shows and this was the only show. And
you don't let me put word in your mouth. But
for me, I felt that the beauty about comedy when
it's done great, it's always this kind of like underground,
(13:04):
it's like counter cultural. It's cool. You guys were like
the cool kids making fun of the institutions, and you
were and the fact I was on cable made it
a little bit hot to watch, was made it even
more desirable. Yeah, you know all these times had tucked.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Away, and I mean, you know you had, and you
also had other things that kind of help set it up.
Like you know, I don't think he gets the it
doesn't get that the amount of credit does. But David
tells Insomnia was this kind of are you kidding me?
Just wandering around in the middle of the night. You know,
there was a certain you just nailed, really that whole
thing about it, and there were other building blocks around
(13:41):
it in terms of Comedy Central, they're also what made
it great, I think, and it's something I scream about
a lot. And I don't think they give the credits.
The level of writing on this show was unbelievable and
I still do this day. I think that what creates
the quality on the one was initially the writers, John
(14:04):
and the writers brought that whole thing up. And now
what really does it is a movie. We had a
killer lineup then we have had a killer lineup now
Correll and Colbert, and so it was a strong group
that you know that also had a bent in terms
of writing. And we've got that now again and it
makes a big difference.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Oh no, thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I wasn't talking about I was talking about the bull.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, And I guess if you could talk a little
bit about like the the way the show has changed culturally,
because it started off as a normal talk show kind
of like.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
News clips with jokes and I kind of called it
like America's final phone videos with jokes when and that's
like that's the basic version of the show to me,
Like that will get everyone paid. But to make the
show great, it started to have a point of view,
and the point of view at that time was kind
of figured out commenting on the cable news environment.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, it was commenting on it was satirizing news. And
it was also the take was any authority it was
right And that was huge, right because there was nothing
really like that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
There was nothing doing it. There's nothing there's still nothing
like that doing it. It's still the only show that
I think that is American satire, modern American satire exactly.
And I'm trying to ask this question without answering it
because I want to hear your answer, But like, how
do you feel that point of view has changed over
the years, because as people have grown more savvy, and like,
(15:43):
how much did it change from un ironic making jokes
to satire and maybe even parody of news to becoming
kind of like essay, maybe a bit outragey, And then
you know, like how do you feel that that?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I mean it it grews as it's audience grew is
it's audience got smarter. We got smarter, and the audience
lead you, and they not only lead you, but they
give you the freedom and the freedom that they gave
us is huge. And you see it now when all
of a sudden, I can now in the midst of
(16:21):
one of my things stand up and yell about stuff,
I get upset the audiences and it always comes incrementally
and it's really grown. And there was something that really
worked about bringing John back, and then something that I
was saying from the time before he came back and
Trevor had left, I said, let the fucking correspondence host
(16:47):
stop it. That was my take on And when I'd
have interviews with people around the country, you know, they
don't give a shit and des Moin, I mean, nobody listen.
But you know, it's all sen telegrams back, you know.
But I felt that, I really did. I felt that
it was its time and it would grow again. Having
(17:08):
John come back really kind of was like great because
it basically got them to look again, and then by
looking again, they went, oh, we can try this. Yes,
and nobody basically had to take like Trevor had to
take over. Yes, nobody's taken over. So it's your take,
and it's the take of those others.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Whoever they are. We'll talk about them later.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, But I guess I'm trying to get to this
idea that like when the Daily Show started, the news
was very different in America, and so you could satirize that.
I mean, you know, a nutshell like it was Tom
Broke call. It was like there was three news anchors maybe,
and there was a way of satirizing it, which I
(17:51):
don't know like, how would you approach that now? You know,
like if you had to, if a daily show wasn't
this institution, if you tried to do it now, it's
almost like you couldn't. I don't even know how you
could do it because it's so chaotic and fragmented and
there's no monoculture, there's no context for you know.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It would have to be on this right, it would
have to start there, I feel, right, because that's where
the whole world. Now you've got what is it? I
find myself looking that's going. So there's a thing called
news fucking right right, And this guy really and these
two women are completely psychotic and are basically saying that
(18:30):
breathalyzers are fake. I mean, you just kind of it's
partly having a mirror all, you know, and which is
what we do in part still, I mean some of
my stuff still deals in that in that frame.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
This is why this is what you're so great is
because as long as I've known you, you've never actually
shat on the present and put the pass on a pedestal.
You've always been like it's different and now it's great
and was great before. And you know, I guess what
I'm trying to ask you, is is satire dead?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah? I mean, well the hard.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Thing for me it's been and I've been yelling about
this for about the past since since Trump came around,
this is how do you it's satirized? What is already satiric?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
And I I kind of go. I go on stage
and we'll go read something and go, uh, it's like,
what is it? The benefits of slavery? Okay? How am
I supposed to make that funnier?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What am I?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
What context do I fucking have to put that in
for you? It's done and you look at it, and
I'll say that to the I go, here's my favorite
punchline this week, and I do this. I've been doing
it for a year now. I'll go the benefits of
slavery and they'll go h And I go, you assholes,
how do you miss the joke? And if you sit
there and groan about it, then what you're saying to
(19:51):
me is is maybe there are some benefits, right? And
I do feel like that that's part. I mean, it's
when I watched your set recently when we were doing it.
You know, when I watch you work, you have you
got that sense I mean, it is, and it's not easy.
It's like you work through it, You work through it,
you work through it, right, And I've had to come
(20:12):
around other ways to try to get the joke all right.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So in a way, satire is dead.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I guess I think it is.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's Those are the questions
I want to ask you about the daily shows past,
because you are kind of uniquely placed to talk about
all this, since you have such vision on it. I
did want to switch to the present though, and kind
of talk about this week's hot summer piece.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, it's about it.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
How hot it is.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's really insightful. Well again, I mean because it's hot out.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Monday was the hottest day ever recorded on Earth.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
The previous record, which was set on Sunday, only lasted
twenty four hours. It's hot, really, really hot, the hottest
day ever recorded on Earth. Suck on that, dinosaurs. We
can destroy the planet ourselves. We don't need an asteroid
like you pussies. Yes, this summer, the heat is kicking
(21:13):
our ass more than usual. Last week it was so
hot in New York.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That and I can't believe I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I asked the hawk to a girl to hit me
in the forehead.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It is hot out and not to be disparaging, but
you have seen a lot of summers, so you have
summers to compare to.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
This is the shittiest.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
This is it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
This really wins I mean by far, because I have
a chunk of it off right. You know, it's like
I really, I'm supposed to go outside. And then, which
they don't fucking talk about enough, is the air quality index.
Now it's not only ninety five degrees. You can't you're
not supposed to breathe.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, you can't breathe.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I mean except last summer it was the fires on
this part of the United States.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You really couldn't go out. You know you're here.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
The sky turned orange, Yeah, for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, but it made for a wonderful sunset.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it was almost a permanent sunset. You couldn't miss it.
It lasted a long time. That was pretty scary, that one.
So climate change. Climate is fucked politically, well fucked, all right.
Just another day in Amaris, another day, just another day,
and you have a podcast coming out here.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
It's a rant cast. I don't because I don't talk
to people. I read the rants that people send in.
Some people send in things about peanut butter. Some people
send in things about pickles. Some people scream about things
that are going on at their office. Somebody talked recently
about the fact that he's had five different bosses in
(22:54):
charge in how each of them is a dick, and
the levels of dictum in corporate America, and that this
idiot doesn't know that. And then I comment occasionally on him,
but mostly I let them stand on their own what's
good about it? And it was said, when I had
to leave the road and the pandemic had started, these
people were starting to write. You know, they wouldn't you wouldn't.
I wouldn't put them on the Daily Show as a writer.
(23:16):
But they were writing for my voice, that point of
view in terms of what was pissing the market brilliantly. Well,
and now they're getting back to it again.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Well, this is the thing about you, is that for
a crotchety old man, you will you are very appreciative
of modern methods and you are very cutting edge in
everything you do. I mean you will. I remember seeing
you doing the Rancast live during the pandemic. You really
embraced technology and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You know it was good and.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You've seen it. You've seen it changed completely. You went
from literally theater, the oldest form of of entertainment, to
seeing early days of television production of the Daily Show,
to full Daily Show, and then now you're live streaming
on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, that's sitting in a place just like this. I'm
sitting in what I call a bad cable access studio
with nobody around. It's like you're watching a lunatic.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
But it's great. Yeah, And I just I'm going to
read this. I don't miss it. I'm going to say
something sincere after I read this out, So for tour days,
she's gonna check out Lewis Black dot com. Lewis Black's
rankcast is available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
And I just want to say, Louis, thank you so
much for your kindness to me and your friendship and
your advice, you and all the legends of a Daily Show.
(24:38):
When I joined the show, I was like, if I
can be ten percent as good as these people, I'll
be very happy. And so thanks for showing the way,
and thanks for speaking.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
To me.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Way more than your bulls suck. You personally, I've been
you really have been quite remarkable and we're lucky to
have you.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Oh no, thank you, that's high praise, and thank you
for joining us on The Daily Show. You has edition everything.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
No, I'm getting paid a lot o good.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm glad someone is. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by
searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Watch The Daily Show weeknights at eleven.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime
on Paramount plus
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Paramount Podcasts
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello and welcome to The Daily Show Ears edition. This
is Ryan Chang, correspondent on The Daily Show, and today
we are joined by the longest running Daily Show contributor
of all time, the one and only Great Lewis Black yayyy.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The crowd goruggles.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
They are they're listening, and the clapping in the subway,
in the cars right now. So good to see you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's great to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, thanks for joining me. I just get into it.
I mean, you, by your own words, are older than shit,
and you've been here a long time. You've been here
since before John Stewart. Yeah, I want to ask you
about you seeing the show change, specifically, not just the
show itself, but like it's place in pop culture, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But they brought on other people and sullied my work,
you know. I mean that was it for starters. It
was kind of like, really, there's gonna be other folks here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So the airing of grievances began on the year's edition.
Uh yeah, so you've been here, like I read to
prepare for this. I actually read the Oral History of
a Daily Show, which you're featured in. Yes, I would
say not featured enough in because but I always find
that style of storytelling, anecdotal storytelling, very interesting by people
(01:32):
who are there, and sometimes they contradict each other.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And then I found out things I didn't know. Yeah,
the other thing, but really yeah, yeah, you know. But
it started, I mean it was literally Liz Winstead knew me.
I was working in clubs and it was one of
those things with clubs in New York City, in New
York City, and people were going, got, I can't believe
you don't have an agent, you know, you really can't
(01:55):
you find an agent? Can't you do this? But meanwhile,
Liz Winstead knew me and a guy named Hang Gallo
who wrote initially for the Daily News I think it was,
and wrote about comedy way back when, and he became
a producer on the show, and they both approached me
because I was sitting around and tons of material and
(02:15):
nobody had heard it, and I hadn't done any specials
I'd done really just maybe I'd done a couple of
you know shows, you know, I don't even know if
I'd done an evening at the Improv.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So at that point, how many years into stand up
were you?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I'd been doing stand up on and off. But I
was really kind of committed to stand up at that
point for about five six years.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Five six years yea where I.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Kind of went from being a playwright to putting myself
full time into doing stand up. Sure, so they said
do you want to do this? I said great.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Just to give people a says do you mind me asking? Well,
what year this was? Roughly?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The year was ninety six, ninety seven, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I remember that. Yeah, remember Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, well, yeah, that was like the fortieth year that
the Wizards.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
My team was in the.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Dumps, so called the Bullets at that point, Yes, Bullet.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
The real name is opposed to that idiotic wizard stupid
fuck thing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And they saw you around the traps, presumably Liz and.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Liz and I knew each other
pretty well, and she had this idea, and the great
breakthrough was is that it's a show that I think
I had tried to sell a show like it. You know,
how are we going to sell this kind of show?
She sold it, which is huge right at the time,
and because I was hearing things like I couldn't be
(03:40):
on Letterman because the guy who was the producer said,
you know, politics aren't funny.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, and so the grievances continue here and this the
grievance addition. Yeah, so you were kind of doing at
that time, you were doing contemporary political maybe like what's
it called, like very topical.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I was doing topical stuff, and I was doing also
other things like about Valentine's Day and about you know,
the holidays and the general stuff that a comic would
do and pick up on and you know, the candy
corn stuff and all that. So they basically bring me on.
There's no audience. What was at the time PBS Studios
(04:22):
in New York City, and they just sat me at
a desk and they had a background of people walking
around as if I was in some sort of a newsroom.
Right then they just and they I came in and improved.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Oh, a segment or the whole show.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
No, just the segment. At that time, Kilbourne was in charge,
Craig and he was I mean, he had the desk,
and so I would come in it was once every
two weeks, and I would improv stuff, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And they saw what they saw in you for the show?
Was it because I know you as this prolific social
common tat, very very topical. That's the kind of thing
which most comics back then probably would not. Most comics
would probably be a bit less prolific and maybe a
bit less topical, because you want to do stuff that's evergreen.
(05:12):
And so do you think that's what attracted them to you?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Show I had all this material. Nobody knew me. I
had all this kind of material that nobody.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Had ever heard.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, then, how did they know about that?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Because they both had seen me in clubs. Liz was
a comedian, Okay, okay, so she had seen me a
ton and we'd done done all the stuff you do
together's let's do a benefit for m Okay, I'll see
you there. And Hank had seen me a ton, and
so they knew that I had them, you know, And
it was really like, okay, we're going to do this
and we don't know how long we'll be on let's
(05:44):
do you want to try this? Yes? And nobody knew
what it would be like. And I did it, and
then I would do my bit. I mean it's you
you're great at there's too, you're great at improblem, Ronnie.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean you are I'm specialists, that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And then you come on and do it. And then
they come up and they go, keep this that that
was wrong, and let's try it again. And then I
would do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Oh that's how they did in the day. No teleprompter,
no nothing, just go it like, let's keep what we liked. Yeah,
and then let's keep doing it.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And now let's do it again, and let's do it again.
I do it like three or four times. By the
fourth time, i'd have it right. Then they brought an
audience about like three months into it maybe. Then we
went on to the teleprompter. So then I would sit
down and write it, write it with Hank, and this
is the two of you, just the two of us.
I'd write it, give it to Hank, can't it help?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Edit it?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Liz would at it, and then I go on and
I put it in the tele prompt. I'd read it.
There was an audience that it up becomes a different
kind of a thing completely.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You're playing off the crowd. You're playing off the crowd.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
The crowd, yeah, and there was a probably a smaller
audience than we had now and then and I kept
doing that, and and that blossomed into Back in Black
when I did the thing that I will advise against.
I got really drunk at a Christmas party. We had
a few years into it, and you know, it'd be
(07:04):
really great if I could. What I'd like to do
is to do is to do you know, news clips
and stuff like that instead of just kind of doing
this just doing my editorials. Could we put it in
relationship to the news. And they took it. They had
at that point access and didn't have to pay for
(07:25):
all sorts of clips. So I didn't get those clips.
I didn't get the news clips. I got, you know,
squirrels on water skis, Oh right, right, right right, that's
the stuff I get. And I was like, son of
a bitch, and we're gonna call it back in black. Fine,
that's great.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And so you wanted something meteor more dare I say,
relevant politically, but they kept giving you the kind.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Of but then they just weak. They had a ton
of this stuff. And I mean, for me, great because
it was on. I was on every two weeks, so
it was still great in the sense looking at you know,
the Veritable Gift Tours. Yes, but I mean I'm going okay,
And I had Hank was in there, my producer and
a writer gifted writer, really good at punchlines, a couple
(08:12):
of the other Like now, the guys who work with me,
the writers, they would come in and we'd look at
this stuff and then we put it together. They we
would all collect the stuff. Then I would go ahead
and write stuff. Then they would write their stuff, and
we combine it all together, and I'd do that, and
that's what evolved into where we are now.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Right. But it was kind of you pursuing something with
more teeth. You were like, I wanted to say something
a bit more teeth, but they kind of saw you
as like the maybe the Andy Rooney segment on the show,
kind of like the comic relief on a comic show,
which is kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And also yeah, and they were, you know, it was
another way to get at it. And then also when
John comes in, so what he starts to do is
create an arc with each show. So then at this
point we're going to use this, this is when we're
going to use Lewis, And so all of a sudden,
they began to pick and shoes. I ended up doing
less shows, but it was still fine because now because
(09:12):
of doing the show my as you've noticed, you know,
all of a sudden, my stock rises. So now I'm
touring around the country. I become because of the because
of the Daily Show, and now I'm getting specials on
Comedy Central. Now I'm in the face of Comedy Central
along with David Tell. Right then we go on tour
(09:35):
with Mitch Hedberg and Dave and I and then boom,
I'm now isn't just touring amazing?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, and so you I guess it's fair to say
the Daily Show did break break you in obviously working hard.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, and it and uh the Conan Conan. I did
a ton of Conan's at the time too, that I broke,
it broke and then and Conan and and also the
specials I did because also.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
There again, now I'm working.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Nights like if you do with clubs and putting together
you know, these half hour specials.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, and then you got HBO specials after that, and yeah,
I guess it was taking off. You kind of skipped
a few step steps that because you know, you said,
like when you first joined the show with Craig Kilbourne,
it was like you didn't even know if the show
was gonna last. And then just before John joins, there's
a gap where Craig Kilbourne. The show actually did grow
(10:27):
and it became more professional. I had more resources, right, Yeah,
and then when John joined you, you were quoted in
the book, A Daily Show Book that you said, like
it made sense to you why they hired him. You
can see that. And then you were like, really, chef
auditioned me.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But there's always agreement.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, did you know, like when he took over, you
could You're like, Okay, this is gonna be better now,
well I.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Knew it'd be better. I didn't know what it would explode, Okay,
but it also you know the thing that you can't
really teach anyone and you've been through it. Anybody's experienced
it breaks in their career. It's time and place, and
a lot of it has to do with timing. Yes,
and so John walks in at the point where there's
(11:14):
an explosion a cable. So now literally and I see
it as I'm performing around the United States. How do
you perform in Biloxi? Well, here's how because they see
the same things as we see everywhere. That also had
a huge effect on the Daily Show in the way
in which people you could see it, and because now
they have an understanding much like they do with hacks
(11:36):
and a whole bunch of other kind of professions that
they know behind the scenes. And so now they kind
of have a sense of what news is about. They
now have a character.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
They have context full what we're making fun of.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, and then John was able to coalesce it and
he had really a great eye for talent.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
He sought it and brought in execute. Yeah, take a
quick break and we'll be right back. Well back with
Lewis Black. So at that point when John joined and
it was kind of, you know, things were really kicking off.
(12:18):
I mean, much like the Bulls. I guess it's like
ninety five Bulls when every time you came back, did
you feel like it was growing bigger and bigger and
you're like, oh, this cultural phenomenon and the production.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I mean it took a while, but I mean you
could feel it. You literally if you could feel it coming.
It was kind of one of those things that you
felt you could see the wave in the distance and
you went well and then all of a sudden you pay.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
It right right. And I think it was a perfect
mix of at that time, there wasn't you know, a
ton of content that is diluting the pool. There's only
so many shows and this was the only show. And
you don't let me put word in your mouth. But
for me, I felt that the beauty about comedy when
it's done great, it's always this kind of like underground,
(13:04):
it's like counter cultural. It's cool. You guys were like
the cool kids making fun of the institutions, and you
were and the fact I was on cable made it
a little bit hot to watch, was made it even
more desirable. Yeah, you know all these times had tucked.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Away, and I mean, you know you had, and you
also had other things that kind of help set it up.
Like you know, I don't think he gets the it
doesn't get that the amount of credit does. But David
tells Insomnia was this kind of are you kidding me?
Just wandering around in the middle of the night. You know,
there was a certain you just nailed, really that whole
thing about it, and there were other building blocks around
(13:41):
it in terms of Comedy Central, they're also what made
it great, I think, and it's something I scream about
a lot. And I don't think they give the credits.
The level of writing on this show was unbelievable and
I still do this day. I think that what creates
the quality on the one was initially the writers, John
(14:04):
and the writers brought that whole thing up. And now
what really does it is a movie. We had a
killer lineup then we have had a killer lineup now
Correll and Colbert, and so it was a strong group
that you know that also had a bent in terms
of writing. And we've got that now again and it
makes a big difference.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Oh no, thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I wasn't talking about I was talking about the bull.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, And I guess if you could talk a little
bit about like the the way the show has changed culturally,
because it started off as a normal talk show kind
of like.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
News clips with jokes and I kind of called it
like America's final phone videos with jokes when and that's
like that's the basic version of the show to me,
Like that will get everyone paid. But to make the
show great, it started to have a point of view,
and the point of view at that time was kind
of figured out commenting on the cable news environment.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, it was commenting on it was satirizing news. And
it was also the take was any authority it was
right And that was huge, right because there was nothing
really like that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
There was nothing doing it. There's nothing there's still nothing
like that doing it. It's still the only show that
I think that is American satire, modern American satire exactly.
And I'm trying to ask this question without answering it
because I want to hear your answer, But like, how
do you feel that point of view has changed over
the years, because as people have grown more savvy, and like,
(15:43):
how much did it change from un ironic making jokes
to satire and maybe even parody of news to becoming
kind of like essay, maybe a bit outragey, And then
you know, like how do you feel that that?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I mean it it grews as it's audience grew is
it's audience got smarter. We got smarter, and the audience
lead you, and they not only lead you, but they
give you the freedom and the freedom that they gave
us is huge. And you see it now when all
of a sudden, I can now in the midst of
(16:21):
one of my things stand up and yell about stuff,
I get upset the audiences and it always comes incrementally
and it's really grown. And there was something that really
worked about bringing John back, and then something that I
was saying from the time before he came back and
Trevor had left, I said, let the fucking correspondence host
(16:47):
stop it. That was my take on And when I'd
have interviews with people around the country, you know, they
don't give a shit and des Moin, I mean, nobody listen.
But you know, it's all sen telegrams back, you know.
But I felt that, I really did. I felt that
it was its time and it would grow again. Having
(17:08):
John come back really kind of was like great because
it basically got them to look again, and then by
looking again, they went, oh, we can try this. Yes,
and nobody basically had to take like Trevor had to
take over. Yes, nobody's taken over. So it's your take,
and it's the take of those others.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Whoever they are. We'll talk about them later.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, But I guess I'm trying to get to this
idea that like when the Daily Show started, the news
was very different in America, and so you could satirize that.
I mean, you know, a nutshell like it was Tom
Broke call. It was like there was three news anchors maybe,
and there was a way of satirizing it, which I
(17:51):
don't know like, how would you approach that now? You know,
like if you had to, if a daily show wasn't
this institution, if you tried to do it now, it's
almost like you couldn't. I don't even know how you
could do it because it's so chaotic and fragmented and
there's no monoculture, there's no context for you know.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It would have to be on this right, it would
have to start there, I feel, right, because that's where
the whole world. Now you've got what is it? I
find myself looking that's going. So there's a thing called
news fucking right right, And this guy really and these
two women are completely psychotic and are basically saying that
(18:30):
breathalyzers are fake. I mean, you just kind of it's
partly having a mirror all, you know, and which is
what we do in part still, I mean some of
my stuff still deals in that in that frame.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
This is why this is what you're so great is
because as long as I've known you, you've never actually
shat on the present and put the pass on a pedestal.
You've always been like it's different and now it's great
and was great before. And you know, I guess what
I'm trying to ask you, is is satire dead?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah? I mean, well the hard.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Thing for me it's been and I've been yelling about
this for about the past since since Trump came around,
this is how do you it's satirized? What is already satiric?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
And I I kind of go. I go on stage
and we'll go read something and go, uh, it's like,
what is it? The benefits of slavery? Okay? How am
I supposed to make that funnier?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What am I?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
What context do I fucking have to put that in
for you? It's done and you look at it, and
I'll say that to the I go, here's my favorite
punchline this week, and I do this. I've been doing
it for a year now. I'll go the benefits of
slavery and they'll go h And I go, you assholes,
how do you miss the joke? And if you sit
there and groan about it, then what you're saying to
(19:51):
me is is maybe there are some benefits, right? And
I do feel like that that's part. I mean, it's
when I watched your set recently when we were doing it.
You know, when I watch you work, you have you
got that sense I mean, it is, and it's not easy.
It's like you work through it, You work through it,
you work through it, right, And I've had to come
(20:12):
around other ways to try to get the joke all right.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So in a way, satire is dead.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I guess I think it is.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's Those are the questions
I want to ask you about the daily shows past,
because you are kind of uniquely placed to talk about
all this, since you have such vision on it. I
did want to switch to the present though, and kind
of talk about this week's hot summer piece.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, it's about it.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
How hot it is.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's really insightful. Well again, I mean because it's hot out.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Monday was the hottest day ever recorded on Earth.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
The previous record, which was set on Sunday, only lasted
twenty four hours. It's hot, really, really hot, the hottest
day ever recorded on Earth. Suck on that, dinosaurs. We
can destroy the planet ourselves. We don't need an asteroid
like you pussies. Yes, this summer, the heat is kicking
(21:13):
our ass more than usual. Last week it was so
hot in New York.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That and I can't believe I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I asked the hawk to a girl to hit me
in the forehead.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It is hot out and not to be disparaging, but
you have seen a lot of summers, so you have
summers to compare to.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
This is the shittiest.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
This is it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
This really wins I mean by far, because I have
a chunk of it off right. You know, it's like
I really, I'm supposed to go outside. And then, which
they don't fucking talk about enough, is the air quality index.
Now it's not only ninety five degrees. You can't you're
not supposed to breathe.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, you can't breathe.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I mean except last summer it was the fires on
this part of the United States.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You really couldn't go out. You know you're here.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
The sky turned orange, Yeah, for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, but it made for a wonderful sunset.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it was almost a permanent sunset. You couldn't miss it.
It lasted a long time. That was pretty scary, that one.
So climate change. Climate is fucked politically, well fucked, all right.
Just another day in Amaris, another day, just another day,
and you have a podcast coming out here.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
It's a rant cast. I don't because I don't talk
to people. I read the rants that people send in.
Some people send in things about peanut butter. Some people
send in things about pickles. Some people scream about things
that are going on at their office. Somebody talked recently
about the fact that he's had five different bosses in
(22:54):
charge in how each of them is a dick, and
the levels of dictum in corporate America, and that this
idiot doesn't know that. And then I comment occasionally on him,
but mostly I let them stand on their own what's
good about it? And it was said, when I had
to leave the road and the pandemic had started, these
people were starting to write. You know, they wouldn't you wouldn't.
I wouldn't put them on the Daily Show as a writer.
(23:16):
But they were writing for my voice, that point of
view in terms of what was pissing the market brilliantly. Well,
and now they're getting back to it again.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Well, this is the thing about you, is that for
a crotchety old man, you will you are very appreciative
of modern methods and you are very cutting edge in
everything you do. I mean you will. I remember seeing
you doing the Rancast live during the pandemic. You really
embraced technology and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You know it was good and.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You've seen it. You've seen it changed completely. You went
from literally theater, the oldest form of of entertainment, to
seeing early days of television production of the Daily Show,
to full Daily Show, and then now you're live streaming
on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, that's sitting in a place just like this. I'm
sitting in what I call a bad cable access studio
with nobody around. It's like you're watching a lunatic.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
But it's great. Yeah, And I just I'm going to
read this. I don't miss it. I'm going to say
something sincere after I read this out, So for tour days,
she's gonna check out Lewis Black dot com. Lewis Black's
rankcast is available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
And I just want to say, Louis, thank you so
much for your kindness to me and your friendship and
your advice, you and all the legends of a Daily Show.
(24:38):
When I joined the show, I was like, if I
can be ten percent as good as these people, I'll
be very happy. And so thanks for showing the way,
and thanks for speaking.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
To me.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Way more than your bulls suck. You personally, I've been
you really have been quite remarkable and we're lucky to
have you.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Oh no, thank you, that's high praise, and thank you
for joining us on The Daily Show. You has edition everything.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
No, I'm getting paid a lot o good.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm glad someone is. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by
searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Watch The Daily Show weeknights at eleven.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime
on Paramount plus
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Paramount Podcasts
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