March 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber shares the untold story behind the Fab Five's black socks, and explains why he spent $50k on car speakers. 2024 NL Rookie of the Year, Paul Skenes discusses becoming named a cover athlete on MLB The Show, and creates his ultimate pitcher repertoire. Former college basketball head coach Steve Lappas compares some of the greatest college basketball head coaches of all time, and discusses how to decide when a player is ready to be drafted.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He's Chris Webber, Hall of Famer, five time All Star,
former number one overall pick by the Magic back in
nineteen ninety three. See Webb joining us who came up
with the idea for the black Socks with Michigan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Do you remember I Do I do? Ray Jackson?
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I had to interview him from my book Shameless Plug,
but I had forgotten. So we were playing in Texas,
were playing against Rice University, and you know then when
you play with your teammates, whenever you have a teammate
that's from somewhere, when you go to their home, you
want to show out. And so we knew we were
going to want to play well for Ray and Jimmy
and Ray though he wanted to transfer and Ray had
(00:47):
been talking about transferring to me for the whole summer.
For the whole year. He felt that he was kind
of left out that he was escapego the coach. He
was kind of tired of coach staying on him for
a long time. So he and his friends decided to
go to the mall. He bought a few different colored
pair of socks and he was gonna wear them in protest.
(01:07):
But he comes to the room, and you know how
it is with your friends. He comes to the room,
I'm sleep. He comes back at Jawana's like, what is this?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
We're gonna wear those black socks. And Jayalen's like, oh,
let's go to the mall. So Jayleen and Jimmy they
ran to the mall, bought me a pair of black socks,
and so raised frustration and protests turned into brothers saying,
man's shut up, we love you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We're all gonna wear the black socks. And that's a whole.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Nother story because we get in trouble for wearing the
black socks, for not including the rest of our teammates.
So we have the black socks on, We're excited. We
have our sweatpants on. We usually don't warm up with
our sweatpants and warm ups, you know, usually take them
off in the shorts. We kept them on, and we
all get in the starter circle and coaches looking like
(01:50):
what the hell, you know, because it was pretty obvious then.
And then after the game coach was fine, we win it.
But after the game we called it to the side
and said, come on, man, you know I was old.
I'm the oldest of five kids, and he was like,
would you do that with with you know, family members.
He's like, no, we don't do that here. Everybody else
to wear black sox. So he didn't understand how excited
(02:10):
we were that. Really, what he was telling us is, yeah,
y'all can wear them, but everyone can wear them.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
But Ray Jackson was the Ray Jackson was the start
of that. He picked those socks.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What about the baggy shorts. I know Jordan wore baggy shorts,
but you guys went baggier.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, you know it was Illinois and UNLB have really
nice shorts Syracuse. You know, all the guys like Derek
Coleman or Anderson Hunt. They would bring us their shorts
in the summer and give us a pair of shorts.
That was like gifting the guy a car to wear
some official, you know shorts.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Back then, there was no fanatics and you know, no
pramatic fess.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
You could just get them things like that, and so
really what it was a funny story. The day we
get to get our uniforms, we're all super excited. You know,
that's a moment when you get to look at your uniform,
put it on but thanks to Chip Armor and Eric
Riley and all of the old heads, because they wanted
just regular shorts and we were searching for that extra
(03:07):
two inches in the cross in the scene, so we
were able to trade with upper classmen. We didn't get
it yet. And then coach eventually he and coach Dutcher
of San Diego State now Heim Coach Dutcher eventually ordered
us some longer shorts. So we were just complaining the
whole time about you know, our shorts, you know the term.
(03:27):
Then we didn't want Stockton's and we didn't want to
get catch a yeaston section that practice for a teammate
and too tight draws on. So you know, Coach he
was cool. We had some tough practices for it. That's
how we got to earn black socks and everything. He
had to have tough practices, but we earned it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And Alls well, we were talking about the great nicknames.
She had, fab five Fi, Slama Jam and was great,
Hoya Paranoia. Don't know if there's a running Rebels, don't
know if there are any other team nickname the kind
of belongs to that group.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Man, that's good. I wish I had a time to
think about that. One, because that's gonna be on my mind.
I really loved the Running Rebels. I mean to me
it said at all. Even they're Moniker with kind of
the Yosemite Sam type character. You know, I'm in I
think them and Oklahoma got to carry a gun around
there at those times. But yeah, I don't you know,
(04:22):
I've always said the greatest personal nickname to me is
the great one, and then you can.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Go from there. But for the teams, yeah, I think
it have to be made Running Rebels back there?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Were you aware of Georgetown with you ing?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Are you serious?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes? Back home?
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Man, I'm a Jew, I'm a big sports fan, so yeah,
and you gotta remember this well was really smart. And
then talking to Sonny but Carol for my book, he
was a really good guy. But they snuck into our
minds early. So when you talk about Georgetown, yes, do
I love John Thompson.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Do I love Zoe and all the big fellow they
had Ewing and man Tumble, Yes, But what really started
my love for them was the blue and Great Nikes.
It was the blue and gray Starter jacket. And I
don't think then really people remember what an influenced Starter
had in our kind of in our life because you
kind of got to be a pro before you were
(05:18):
a pro and wear what you wanted to wear. So yeah,
for me, it was a really good time of fashion
and where we won. But it all started with which
you could wear on the street. And that's why I
really loved Georgetown because of how cool they were even
before I got to see them on the floor.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, what I was meaning is growing up, you know,
because ewing and hoy you know, Hoya Paranoia was in
the eighties. And I'm just curious if you were old
enough to get gear, if you wanted to get gear
from Georgetown or there was some other school, because I
think you looked at Duke, didn't you. If you didn't
go to Michigan, it was either Michigan State or Duke.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Yes, yes, And so Patrick you and it is a
little older than me, and I didn't get Georgetown gear,
but you would always see all the cool guys in
the neighborhood wearing it. I remember his interview with my father,
you know, telling me where Patrick Geary was from. And
I remember my mother telling me how smart you had
to be to go at Georgetown. So I really remember
(06:16):
those conversations more so than watching Pat play, but coach
Carrill rest in Peace, who was a close close mentor
of mine. When I got into pros, I heard so
many great stories about that Princeton Georgetown game, but those
were much later, So no, I didn't really get to
see that because I was going to Duke. I was
going to Michigan State to be like Steve Smith going
(06:37):
to Duke to play with Grant Hill or you know,
luckily went to Michigan to play with Juwan jay Le
Rain Jim.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Toughest guy you ever faced in college.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Christian Ladner is the best, one of the best college
players of all time. I think of great college players,
I think a Kareem Walton. Of course, there are a
lot of others that are mixed in that have one
or two great years, but it was by far, by
(07:13):
far Christian Layner for me, because sorry Christian Layner and
Big Dalton Robinson, because those two, Glenn Robinson, those two
were the first big guys that could put it on
the floor, that could dribble, that could pump fake, that
could get you in foul trouble, that played outside the game.
You know, when you look at the evolution of the game,
we grew up when big guys weren't supposed to handle it,
and so Layton being able to shoot three of these
(07:35):
late there being able to just do all the stuff
that he did from a freshman all the way to
a senior.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I would definitely say in my time, I think he
was the toughest for me to play play against.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Do you ever have a conversation with him about that
rivalry and games you guys played against each other?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
No, no, no, but it's it's overdue, it's long overdue.
We should have a beer over it, because I think
I told you this before. My best one of my
best college visits if I had, you know, eight or
nine of them, was definitely at Duke and uh and
later there was my host, so I was very familiar
with him when we played.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's why we talked so much junk to each other. Uh.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And you know he knew my admiration. But the more
admiration I have for you to more to try to
kill you anyway. And I think that's the same with him.
But now we haven't talked about it, but you know,
it'd be fun, fun, fun to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It would be it'd be a fun podcast where it's
just you two talking about that time. Because you had
Duke the establishment, you guys, you know, freshmen and uh
going toe to toe with them. Well, you probably had
people who liked you because they hate hated Duke so much.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They did.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And also I had people that were mad at me
because I didn't hate Duke. I mean, I hate them
because I wanted to beat him. But all of the
other talk and this that I didn't get into it
because I hated them enough just from basketball and I
went to visit there, and I wanted to be part
of you know, of that team. But you know, Coach
K is such a special guy. And you know, when
(09:07):
I think about and again keep saying to the book,
by Guy's grace, when I think about Coach K coming
to my house and recruiting me, he was an enemy territory. Actually,
my friends were screaming one O three seventy three, one
O three seventy three. That was the score that they
lost against UNLV, And people are outside chanting as while
(09:28):
he's walking in my house and all he does is
turn around on the court and the justice ring, and
everybody's like, So when I saw Coach K's toughness, you
know in the hood and how he was and you know,
respectful comparis and all that.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
He's always been one of my favorite coaches in the
game as well.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Okay, wait a minute, your boys are outside. Coach K's
walking into your house and they're mocking him of getting
blown out by thirty by UNLV.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Dan, I actually got to send this to you because
I interviewed my guys on the porch that he walked
in and they were saying it because my father was like,
don't tell anybody, you know, Coach K's coming, and so
the whole neighborhood, dude, And so he gets out of
the car and they are just booming. But when he
walked back out, people are like, yeah, coach, you know,
you know, good job. So he earned our respect. But yeah,
(10:16):
coach Coach K was tough. It's not just it's not
just an act. You know, he's a he's a good
guy and toughs at heart, and so he's always had
my respect. He is all remind me a lot of
each other too, and I consider Coach is a very
close friend.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Chris Weber, the Hall of Famer member of the Fab Five,
more concerned about transfer portal or ni l in the
future for the sport.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Can you separate them? Can there be onee out the other?
You know, I'm you know, I'm very happy that you know,
anytime you're in the beginning of any new system, it's
going to be terrible and he's gonna have to figure
it out. So I can't wait until the playing field
levels and we figure it out. But I think coaches
(11:01):
are getting a taste of their medicine. You want to
leave your guys and coach and leave, well, some guys
are going to leave you mentally late in the season
when you decide that. But also I hope that players
start to understand that the same love and passion should
be there. But even more than ever, you made a
commitment now, and I've talked to a lot of young players,
(11:22):
and I don't know, I talked to a lot of
young players, and we are working through understanding that you're
getting paid for this commitment now.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So you have no excuse.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
But you still need to come with the same energy
and innocence of passion that you would have played with.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And how do you figure that out? I think some
guys are figuring out.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I also think some players are looking mid season saying, well,
I'm averaging eight, I can go average ten here next
year in a crazy, unsubstantiated situation, and then they go
into the transfer portaland no one picks them up. You know,
it's a it's a it's a difficult time right now.
And I think everyone from coaches, players are all kind
(12:06):
of getting used to seeing like how is this.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Gonna gonna level out?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
But that needs to be more discussion and hopefully more
leveling of the playing field so everyone can get comfortable.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, I'm wondering about that that if you get money
when you're in college, does that help you when you
go to the pros and get money because a lot
of times you go into the pros and you go
crazy because you haven't had this kind of money and
you buy stupid things. Did you do that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Every every every everybody, everybody, Yeah yeah, yeah, everybody's done that.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
And I thought it was sports until I talked to
a lot of my friends in VC and others and
I found out it's all people that do that. But
I definitely, uh, you know, it was one of those guys.
But you're going to do that, I think too.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
With guys.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Let's take a guy like a big fella from Kansas fixer.
He was, he was at Michigan, and I say this,
it was he's a really good guy and he plays
with passion. He's so hard. He wanted to stay at
Michigan and he's going, I'm not playing pro now. I
(13:16):
think he's a pro. So I'm not having that conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He's a pro. He's a posy pro.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
But that was the conversation, and the conversation asked to me,
who was someone had never been in that position?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
What would you do?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
You know?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Because my thing was, you can stay here for legacy.
You being in Michigan four years and having records and numbers.
Do you know what that's light when you get older
to be able to come back to Michigan and say.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
That you're a part of it. This is a wonderful university.
And I think that.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I think that that factor has been taking out of
the decision making because guys are saying, you know what,
I might not make the pose, I might not have
the luxury of getting a paycheck and buying something stupid.
I need to make as much as I can now
prepare for a professional career overseas or in coaching. So
I think guys are battling with the lot of different
decisions that really are they're struggling with that they don't
(14:03):
want to have. I was talking with Deon Sanders for
a show I'm doing, and he was telling me that
the parents were more of a problem with the portal
and with NIL than the students because the students haven't
lived life enough to kind of uh be that greedy
yet or order order to uh just not put team first.
(14:25):
And so again, I think it's a lot of different situations.
You know, guys are getting taxed off the ni L
and didn't know they were getting taxed, and parents for you,
So it's it's just so much going on that that
that hopefully again the dust your cells.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
What's the craziest thing that you spent money on early?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean, I've.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, I was smart to begin it because I
wanted to get my parents everything so and I had
a big family. But for me, I mean, you know,
the day you know I got drafted, it was have
a chapter in my book called gators for everybody. So
gators are you know, are a shoe? Now I looked
at this so damn stupid, but gators are a shoe?
And back then it was big block gators and you
(15:11):
know from guys in the hood, the preachers, anybody had gators.
And so what did I do. I went and bought
gators for everyone in my neighborhood. I mean, even if
they didn't have a suit. Hey, why don't you had
some gators?
Speaker 5 (15:23):
And take this?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
So you know, oh man, I took friends to restaurants.
You know that we had never been to. So I
got a little across the street from your bookie rest
of Peace. Uh, just stupid stuff. You go to restaurants,
you pork and coch and hot sauce, and you say
that guy here, I gave you five thousand dollars if
you eat it, and you're happy because you were gonna
give them something anyway.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
But you know your friends, you have to bust them up.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And so you know, I've done a lot more worse things,
I'm sure, and in other areas of life. But I
remember when I first got it was a Oh one
of the one of the most fun things I did
the probably was stupid. I went to a music I
had a truck of white suburban when they first came out,
and I asked him to give me the loudest sounds
in the world, and the guy laughed, and I immediately
(16:08):
walked out and went down the street and asked the
guy for the loud of sounds in the world. He
was like, I could do that, and so I took
out every seat besides the front two seats I had
sixteen twelve, fourteen age.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I'm crazy, and I used to just love driving down.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
The street making alarms go off or breaking my window
in the back, and so I think that's pretty stupid to,
you know, put you know, fifty thousand dollars forty thousand
dollars worth of sounds in your truck and only one
person could fit in and you can't even put your
lugga jambler.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
It was a good time. So it was a good time.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, but here's your dad who worked factory for all
of those years. Did he ever say what are you doing?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
You know, yeah, yeah, But the story timeline keep going,
I know, show I don't want to keep going with them.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Why do you bought him a Cadillac? Right?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
But that was the best thing.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I told him Magic was coming to the house, and
I went to the UH and he loves magic. I
went to the our dealership Cadillac, and people started cheering
when I went in because they knew my father had worked.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
For GM for you know, many many years, and I
bought him Cadillac.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I had to cut the grass meticulously now and you
never got to play football on my grass or anything.
I drive the car on the grass stand it. My
father comes out at six and it's about seven in
the morning, and that was one of the more special
moments of my life. Getting yelled at while throwing the
keys to my father while he was driving off telling.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Me to make sure I take care of the grass
was a pretty cool moment.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Always great. Thank you for storytelling time, Chris. We appreciate
your time as always.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Thanks, Dan, appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
He is Chris Webber. He is a Hall of Famer
and number one overall picked by the Magic back in
nineteen ninety three. A lot of fun. I always appreciate
conversations with him. Mark, we'll take a break. More of
your phone calls coming up back after this.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
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Speaker 6 (18:05):
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Speaker 3 (18:35):
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Speaker 2 (18:46):
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Speaker 2 (18:59):
That's Veino and Rich, Paul schemes. He is one of
three MLB The Show twenty five cover athletes. This is
the twentieth anniversary honoring two decades of baseball history. Elie
de la Cruz and Gunner Henderson are on the cover
as well. The Pirates Rookie of the Year joining us
(19:20):
on the program. What did you learn from your rookie
year or what do you wish that you had known
in your rookie year or when you were in the
college minor leagues coming up to the Pirates.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean the biggest thing I learned from getting
to the big leagues is that the game is a
lot more similar than I thought in terms of the
actual the baseball, you know play. Everything that's added on
makes it a lot harder. So traveling cross country, we
had a couple of cross country flights last year. Our
(19:54):
travel within the division's pretty good, you know, our hour
long or less than an hour long flights for the
most part within our division. But still, I mean, you
got the media in the in the locker room every day.
The food is different. It's it's better, but there's more
of it, so it's easy to you know, overindulge, just
(20:15):
a lot of a lot of little stuff like that
that makes it, uh just makes it makes it different
and probably makes it a little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
What's the strangest thing you've thought of while you were
on the mound?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Man?
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Probably like doing math problems or something like that. I
don't know if you've ever seen I think it was
Major League or Major League two. The catcher is is,
you know, learning to get over the yips, and he
like memorizes a PLAYBOYD magazine or something like that, and
I do that with math problems rather than you know,
(20:54):
PLAYBOYD magazines.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
But how does that help you?
Speaker 8 (20:59):
I mean, because it's it's very so it's very easy
to like focus too hard and try to execute a pitch,
you know, and then you just completely sail it or
like pull a slider or sail a heat or something
like that. So like having your mind not you know,
solely focused on on that pitch. It like a little
(21:22):
bit of distraction is sometimes a good thing.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Give me the guy that you keep an eye on
in the on deck circle that you know he's coming
to the plate.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
It's probably one per team. Usually it's like the three
hitter or something like that. Maybe it's to a team,
it's because we kind of like bucket hitters a little
bit to where we can pitch them similarly to get
them out. But there's always like one guy in the
lineup that's like, hey, this guy doesn't beat us. So
(21:56):
I mean it's the one Soto's the day, look, Elid Cruise,
Cody Boudrew, those types of guys. They I mean, you
know they're coming out.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
What do you do when you disagree with your catcher?
Speaker 8 (22:11):
Just shake? I'll wear a pitch com too, and and
I'll punch it in sometimes, but yeah, just shake there.
There are no hard feelings there, but.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
You have final say yeah.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
I mean if I my experience is generally, if I
throw a pitch that I don't wholly believe in, it
doesn't end well. So I have to, you know, throw
out pitches that I believe in out there with you know,
full conviction, and that it generally ends ends pretty well.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But when you give up a big hit or a
home run in college, it's one thing, But when you
have thousands and thousands of people and you know it's
going to end up on Sports Center, Like, how do
you process that differently? If you can? Then when you
were in college and you gave up a home.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Run, yeah, honestly, And I think this is probably more
of a change for me. But I think I took it, like,
took it harder, took it, took it more personally when
I was in college than I do now. And I
think there are probably a couple of reasons for that.
I've I think I've matured, grown up a little bit,
but also, uh, we get to do it more often now.
(23:17):
In college, it's like, you know, the SEC is the
biggest thing in the world and nothing else matters, Like
that's that's the that's what they feed you, right, So
when I give up a home run at Ole Miss
and the beers flying everywhere, like it feels like the
end of the world a little bit more than it
does now. When I give up a home run in
you know, Dodger Stadium or something like that, it's just
And I think I think part of that's because it's
(23:39):
it's so routine now, but I think a lot of
it's because I've just like grown up to.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Talking to Paul's schemes and he's one of three MLB
The show twenty five cover athletes. You've got Gunner Henderson
and Ellie Dela Cruz tell us about the honor. How
did you find out?
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Yeah, I can't remember exactly when I found out, because
there's just something that I think, you know, we were
in the talks for for I don't know, probably the
last summer, last September around there kind of blends together
when we're in season. But it was cool when I,
you know, found out that it's you know, no kidding happening.
(24:24):
I mean, definitely some satisfaction there is. It's it's pretty cool.
I've you know, grown up seeing you know, the cover
athletes of the show and and seeing the game. It's
been a huge part of a lot of people's childhood.
I think, as like the game that they want to
play when they when they get to play video games.
So gamer, I'm not. I'm not really a gamer at all.
(24:52):
So yeah, So the only time I would play the
show because I never had a PlayStation or Xbox or anything. Uh,
And the only time I would play the show when
I like went to you know, my my buddy's house
or something like that and they had it. But I've
always been terrible at it. And if I'm the kind
of person like if I'm not good at something, I
just won't. I'll just stop doing it. Yeah, I'm the
(25:14):
I'm gonna take my ball and go home type of guy.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
How territorial are you when it comes to the SEC,
whether it's football fourteen schools are in the NCAA tournament
the baseball with the SEC? Are you annoying to be
around when it's conversations about the SEC?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Now?
Speaker 8 (25:33):
Because I'm a I'm a baseball guy first football, I
could kind of care less about. I mean, I'm a
true believer that because I'm an SEC guy. But I'm
a Mountain West guy too, and I'm a true believer
that the Mountain West just breeds winners. So I'm probably
more territory about the Mountain West because it's not a
you know, people don't people don't know about the Mountain West.
(25:54):
But that's where that's where champions are made. I believe that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Okay, But you're in Pittsburgh. They love their football there.
Do you go to you care about? Do you go
to games?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
But I mean because I look at college baseball and
call and uh and pro baseball is two different sports.
I I I never played football. I don't understand what's
going on out there. I know that you're supposed to
move the ball down the field. But I viewed college
football and pro football is two different sports too. So
I've gone to a Steelers game. It was it was
(26:28):
really cool. I want to go back. I'm a Steelers fan,
you know, now bleed black and gold. So but yeah,
I don't, I don't. They're fun to the games are
fun to go to.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Are you gonna be okay with the automatic strike zone?
Speaker 8 (26:47):
Yeah, Hey, it's not in there this year, so I'm
I'm happy with that. I haven't. I haven't challenged anything
this spring. It's not going to be in there this
year when it comes it comes. I I like the
human aspect of the game because I think that, you know,
there are games where the umpire zone is big and
there are games where the umpire zone as small. Obviously catchers,
(27:10):
you bring in the automatic strike zone, then it completely
devalues framing, which you know, effectively eliminates the catching position.
So I have mixed feelings toward it. I do like
the human aspect of the game, but there's definitely something
to be said about, you know, being objective with the
(27:31):
strike zone.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, but when you're at the plate and all of
a sudden there's a you know, a star pitcher and
he gets a call. You're okay with that and it's
not a strike, but because of who he is, Justin
Berlander is going to get that call.
Speaker 8 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean I prefer it that way. I don't
have to hit anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Do you want to hit?
Speaker 7 (27:54):
No?
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Maybe BP occasionally, but I don't want to face Justin Berlander.
I don't want to face anything. These other guys they're
too they're too uh, they're too good.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
If you were building the perfect picture, so you gave
me fastball, slider, curveball, change up. Who's using your fastball?
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Yeah, i'd like to think all four of those are
you know mine, but uh, let's just part the taste. Yeah,
I mean, because you can't use my fastball with like
because I would say, like my fastball and Clayton Kershaw's
curveball or something like that, but like we're the exact
(28:38):
opposite pitchers. Basically, I'd like to thank my fastball, Kershaw's
curveball for sure, just to straight up and down curveball,
change up, Scooball those are two lefties, slider man, there
(29:02):
are so many good ones. I think a nice like
for for me, like a downer, a downer slider like
a de Gram, like a shorter downer slider, because that's
something I don't have. But there's I mean, strider's slider.
There's so many, so many ways, so many different ways
(29:23):
to have a good slider, though so specifically a slider.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's amazing that these guys can hit this stuff. I mean,
they talked about hitting a baseball is the hardest thing
to do, and they're guys that are hitting one hundred
miles an hour and it's like, so what.
Speaker 8 (29:42):
Yeah, I don't I don't know how they do it.
I'll let them do it. That's why I'm not going
to try to try to get back in the box.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
UH.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Congratulations Opening Day, Congratulations on MLB the show, that's the
UH cover with Elie Dela Cruz, Gunner Henderson, and and
this is honoring the twentieth anniversary of that great to
talk to you again, Paul. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, no,
I really appreciate it, Paul Skeins.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio WAP.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Steve lap is joining us on loan from CBS Sports
studio analyst and college basketball analyst. Former college hoo coach
at Manhattan, Villanova and UMass. You've done a great job
and I've been meaning to reach out to you the
last couple of years. Every time I hear you in
the tournament and I always go, we should get Steve
lapis On. I love the energy that you have. It's
(30:41):
great to see you again, coach. How you doing you, Dan,
It's been a long time. I think I go back
to when was the first time I met you Villanova.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
Probably Villanova, maybe even Villanova's.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
An assistant coach as I was from eighty five to
eighty eight, so probably back then.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
So you came up with the game planned to beat
Georgetown in the NCAA finals.
Speaker 9 (31:07):
You know what.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
That was my first year Dan, as an assistant coach.
Speaker 9 (31:10):
I came from high school the year before, and people
asked me about that all the time.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I said, boy, what did you do? I said, well,
I was getting the coffee, the sneakers. I was doing
all those things in my first year.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And I always maintain when people talk about that as
one of the great upsets of all time, and I said,
I don't think it is. I think NC State beating
Houston was a bigger upset Villanova. You had played Georgetown,
and I think he lost by six or eight points,
So you knew what you you know, you knew the battle,
you knew the Big East, you knew Georgetown, and therefore
(31:43):
I don't view it as that big of an upset,
even though you guys had to play pretty much the
perfect game. How do you view it? Dan?
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I tell people that all the time.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
I know, you know it's great for us that we
were part of his greatest upset ever.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
But you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 9 (31:57):
We played them twice that year, lost by four, lost
by six. The year before that, when I wasn't there,
they beat Georgetown. Villanova Eddie picked me as a sophomore,
had twenty two points and twenty rebounds against Patrick Ewing
in a game that was an epic.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
So we knew we did.
Speaker 9 (32:17):
We didn't feel it like getting ready for the game.
I mean, we knew we had to play well. There's
no question that was an unbelievable team. And let's understand this.
We shot seventy nine percent. We won by two, so
you know what I mean? That tells you how good
they were, but I can't agree with you more. You know,
when you play somebody twice a year, we had seen
Patrick Ewing nine times before that. They would have intimidated
(32:40):
anybody else they played. And I'll be honest with you,
we were happy we weren't playing Saint John's. It was
a worst matchup for us because we were a matchup
zone team and Chris Mullen was obviously one of the
best shooters in the world. Georgetown wasn't a good shooting team.
We liked that matchup better than Saint John's.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, you start to look at the all time
greats in college basketball. I don't know if Christian Latner
is the last of the old time greats because they're
not staying three or four years. It's usually if you're
really good. I mean, Cooper Flag could be one of
the great players of all time, but he's just going
to be a footnote of a one and done at
Duke and maybe they win a national title.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
You know, there's no doubt this is a new age.
Speaker 9 (33:21):
You know, we're not going to see the Bill Waltons
and the Leuel Senders, and you know, the even you know,
Christian Latner, who was a good pro but wasn't like
obviously Bill Walton or Leuel Sender, yeah, or even Pat
Patrick Ewing was one.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Of the greatest college players that ever was. So, you know,
it's just.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
A different age now, and even now it's even gotten
crazier with this nil and transfer portal.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Even schools themselves forget about the general public.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
It's hard for schools themselves to honor guys that are
only their school for one year and then they're gone.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I wondered about this. I brought it up with Dan Dakich,
and I said, in Indiana never reached out to Steve
Alford to coach there, because you know, Clyde Drexler was
at Houston, Mullen was at Saint John's, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown.
You can't hire somebody unless you know you can fire them.
And I'm just I was always curious why Steve Alford
(34:17):
never got the opportunity to coach Indiana.
Speaker 9 (34:20):
You know, that's that's a great point because here's a
guy who's won seven hundred games in his career.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
He's been a tremendous coach his whole life. From a
young age.
Speaker 9 (34:30):
He obviously was one of the greatest players in the
history of the school, you know, win the championship in
eighty seven, and yeah, it's just a surprising thing. What now.
I think probably part of it has to do with
the fact that they did coach at Iowa. That may
have you know, he's got that job when he was younger,
and maybe that hurt him a little bit that he
coached another Big ten school. But he's a tremendous coach
(34:51):
and you know, would have been a great one at
at Indiana, no question.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
All right, you called games in Providence, so you had
Arkansas over Camp since he had Saint John's over Omaha,
and that sets up Pattino Caliperi. Where did that relationship
goes sideways between those two?
Speaker 9 (35:08):
You know, I think it went sideways like a long
time ago, to be honest, I think it's actually a
little better now.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
You know.
Speaker 9 (35:15):
I think part of it was when John Caliperry got
the UMass job. Rick Patino's a UMass graduate and he
had some input into you know, who was going to
coach at the school, and it got out that Rick
Pattino was not in Caliberry's corner. For Caliberry to get
the job, he wanted somebody else to get So I
(35:35):
think that's kind of where starting.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
We all knew each other.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
We all met each other at the five Star basketball
camp back in nineteen eighty, so, you know, he go,
we go back a long way, and those two guys
go back a long way, and I think that's where
and then the rivalry just grew because you know, John,
they're both big personalities, as we know, and they both
you know, feel like they're great basketball coaches, which they
(35:59):
are are, and you know, I think the rivalry just
grew from there.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
But I think it started with the UMass job.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And I forget who we had on but they they
said Jim Beheim, and Beheim said, you can put Patino
there with Mike Skryzchewsky like he's he's on that level.
Nobody's where Wooden is, you know, for obvious reasons. But
he said, as far as modern day basketball coaches, greatest
of all time, he would put Patino right there with
(36:28):
coach k What about you?
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Absolutely, Dan, no question. I mean, think about it. Besides
the fact he's.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
Got the eight hundred and seventy five whatever wins, think
about all the years he spent in the NBA, so
he would have a lot.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
More wins in college. He's got two titles.
Speaker 9 (36:43):
You know, I always tell people me personally, like people
ask me all the time, if you had the one
game you got to win one game, who would you
want to coach? I said, there's two people, Bob Knight
and Rick Patino if I gotta win one game.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well that's how he praised there.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
He'll not.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
K you know here, Coach k was a great coach.
Speaker 9 (37:09):
I look at those guys different see Coach k he
was maybe the greatest leader of all time. That was
his things leadership. Not that he wasn't next to no guy.
Knight and uh Patino. Those guys were tinkerers. They were
excell No, not that I'm not in Please, I don't
want anybody to take this like, oh what are you
(37:30):
talking about?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Mike.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
Mike chefs all time, the best, one of the best.
But those two guys were like they would tinker for
game plans. Mikeae Shewski's philosophy was this is what we
do and we will do it better than what you
do and we're gonna win. These guys they would change things.
They would change this guy and report they tweaked this,
tweak that, and that's why. I mean one game, those
(37:50):
guys will game plan to make it hard.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
For you to win.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Steve Lapis CBS Sports college basketball analyst. He has McNee
State and Purdue and Arkansas and Saint John Waite. Are
you working in Are you the early game here?
Speaker 8 (38:08):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:08):
No, tomorrow, My game is.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Oh tomorrow. I was gonna say, oh, yeah, okay. I
was like, boy, I'm uh holding you back here?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
No, no, no, I had before yesterday.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Okay, do you have any problem with will Wade coaching
in the tournament knowing that he's going to take another job. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
I mean, let's face it, it's it's not a great situation,
you know, for the kids, school or anybody.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I will say this about will Wade, though, he was
very honest. I was shocked.
Speaker 9 (38:34):
You know, you know how it is, Dane. You've been
doing this role so long. People say, well, you.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Know, I don't want to talk about that now or whatever.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
He was very open, he said. We asked him, he
said at the practice day before. He said, yeah, I'm
talking to NC State. He says, but I told my
players that, and my players I'm going to help them
get to the next level. If guys want to transfer,
we talked very openly about this, so I don't like it,
but I give the guy credit that he hasn't hit
from it. They were honest, they didn't lie, and you know,
(39:03):
you gotta there's something to be said for that too.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm okay with the transparency. I just find it
a little weird that he's helping the university, but he
might hurt the university because maybe he takes some of
these players with him de n C State, maybe part
of the coaching staff as well. So yes, you're helping,
but then he could be hurting here in a week
or two.
Speaker 9 (39:25):
There's no definite, there's no there's no doubt that if
we were gonna put a scale which which way is
worse than the other, there's no doubt that the fact
that this came out and that.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
He's going, he's worse for the school and everybody involved.
Speaker 9 (39:37):
The only thing I'm saying is it's a bad situation
and he didn't lie about it.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
What's it like to get fired?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
You know, it's uh, it's it's it's it's a it's
it's an interesting question. Obviously, his stings, as we know.
Speaker 9 (39:59):
But the thing that gets you more than anything else,
is that you spend your whole life doing this thing
that you think you're pretty good at and it's kind
of been your dream and then all of a sudden,
you know it could be over, and so you spend
all your life from when you're a kid, you know,
I know, for me, from when I was a kid,
(40:21):
it's all I wanted to do was coach, coach, coach.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I grew up in New York City and I coached
in high school JV.
Speaker 9 (40:26):
I came up the ranks, and then you know, when
that happens, it's a jolt because this is what you
want to do, and now you don't even know.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
If you're gonna be able to keep doing it.
Speaker 9 (40:37):
And it's not like, you know, if you're an accountant
and you get let go of an accountant, you'll probably
find another accountant job. Unless you were scaling or something,
you'll find another account job. This business is very small,
and you know, I mean, unfortunately, college coaches don't get
recycled the way they do in the NBA. So you know,
I had to kind of remake myself, you know, by
(40:58):
getting into TV, and it's worked out unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
CBS has been great to meet. And the other thing
about it, Dan, is you know, publicly.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
It's embarrassing, you know what I mean. You know, it's
in the something happens to you like that's in the newspapers.
It's you know, everybody knows, everybody knows it. It's not
like you know, again, you work in an accounting firm
or whatever, and so something that you can not say
anything to anybody, nobody will know. Everybody knows. And let's
face it, and I don't think so. I think I
got cut short at you masks big time. I think
(41:27):
we were on the on.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
The right road.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
But you know what happens is you know, that's my story.
Speaker 9 (41:33):
The story on the outside is this guy wasn't good
enough and that's sucks.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
What do you see with Cooper Flag If I said, uh,
maybe question marks with him of what he's going to
take to the NBA about his game?
Speaker 9 (41:49):
Question marks? Boy, it's really hard to find him. You know,
you wonder because he's so skilled. You know, we're talking
about a guy who lead his team in every category.
So I mean, here's a six nine, six ten kid
who not only shoots, rebounds, assists, steals blots.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I mean he does it all now?
Speaker 9 (42:09):
College basketball is different today than it was, you know,
twenty years ago. There's no doubt about it. But you know,
I would say, how's he going to hold up physically?
If I had to pick something, That's probably where I
would go, is how's he going to hold up physically?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I don't know if you had conversations or you've talked
to coaches who've had these conversations when a kid thinks
he's ready. I remember talking to Jim Beayheim about this,
and he had a player who wanted to go, and
he said, don't go. And the player went and didn't succeed,
But he said, you know, I'm I'm assessing your talent.
(42:46):
Do I want you to go if you're ready to go? Yes?
But I think the player may have thought that Jim
was being selfish by saying, no, you're not ready to go.
But it turns out, you know, the kid wasn't ready
to go. It's a tough conversation to have, I would say,
because it's a kid. And then you have parents who
are involved in this. So do you have any background
(43:06):
stories on that?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (43:08):
I mean I had I had two kids.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
I had, you know, Tim Thomas and Kerry Kittles and
and Tim was one of the first guys to leave
after year. He left in nineteen ninety seven. He stayed
one year. He left, and I didn't think he was ready.
And I and I'll tell you what I told him.
I said, Tim, here's the thing I think you need
because that team that he was on his freshman year,
(43:30):
we had three seniors who were really good players, who
had been there for four years and won a lot
of games, and so he was obviously a big part
of the scouting report, but he was.
Speaker 5 (43:38):
A deep part of the scouting report.
Speaker 9 (43:40):
And I said, I think you need a year where
this thing is going to focus on you. You are
the We had these other three singers that were all
good players, so it was hard for you to just
get all of the attention in the scouting report or whatever.
I said, I think you need a year of being
the man here. It's on you. You got to get
this done for us to win. It's not like last year.
(44:02):
We can go into the background and we could still win.
Here it's about you now. The difference for Tim was
his mom was older. She was cleaning houses, you know,
you know, so you know, from a financial standpoint, he
had to go.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
He wasn't ready from a basketball stand, but he had
a good career. Don't get me long. He made a
lot of money.
Speaker 9 (44:23):
I don't know if Tim ever really became I thought
he could be an NBA All Star.
Speaker 5 (44:27):
He wasn't.
Speaker 9 (44:27):
He was a really good player, and I'm not saying
that's why he wasn't. But you know, it's funny, Dan,
he came back to me like two years later.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
As the boy coach.
Speaker 9 (44:35):
I wish I would have stayed because not so much
for the not so much for the basketball even, but
just to be a college kid.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
For another year. It's not the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
All right, give me the team that could make it
to the Final four where we'll look back and say,
I'll be damn. Steve Lapis knew what he was talking about.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Maryland. You know, Maryland is a team and it's kind
of under the rate.
Speaker 9 (44:56):
I mean, I could easily give you, you know, Houston, Auburn,
But a team that you got.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
To keep your eye on is Maryland.
Speaker 9 (45:04):
Maryland's starting five is as good as any starting five
in the country. They have no bench, So now could
that get them in the end. Yeah, they get into
some foul, trouble, whatever. You know, this thing, this tournament.
One game, you're out, but you take you keep an
eye on Maryland in.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
Terms of what they do.
Speaker 9 (45:21):
Now you watch the loose today because you know what,
in my house, we used to have a pool every year, me,
my wife and my two kids.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I was last every year of the four of us.
So that tells you where this thing is at.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I like Maryland, but I don't like what's going on
with the coach and the athletic director there. It feels
like both are out the door. And now you're gonna
face Grand Cannon. And I know you're ten and a
half point favorites, but I just if you're not focused, man,
it just it'll bite you right in the ass. That
that would be my big concern with Maryland.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
Well you know that that was.
Speaker 9 (45:54):
My concern about McNee yesterday and I said it.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
They couldn't played any better. So you know you're right.
And I said the same thing yesterday. I'm not saying
it again because the McNees they burned me.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yes. Uh, keep the passion, keep the enthusiasm and thanks
for joining us, Steve.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Davey.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
It's an honor to be on with you.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Thank you, Thank you, Bud. Steve Lapis, CBS Sports college
basketball Analyst,
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He's Chris Webber, Hall of Famer, five time All Star,
former number one overall pick by the Magic back in
nineteen ninety three. See Webb joining us who came up
with the idea for the black Socks with Michigan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Do you remember I Do I do? Ray Jackson?
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I had to interview him from my book Shameless Plug,
but I had forgotten. So we were playing in Texas,
were playing against Rice University, and you know then when
you play with your teammates, whenever you have a teammate
that's from somewhere, when you go to their home, you
want to show out. And so we knew we were
going to want to play well for Ray and Jimmy
and Ray though he wanted to transfer and Ray had
(00:47):
been talking about transferring to me for the whole summer.
For the whole year. He felt that he was kind
of left out that he was escapego the coach. He
was kind of tired of coach staying on him for
a long time. So he and his friends decided to
go to the mall. He bought a few different colored
pair of socks and he was gonna wear them in protest.
(01:07):
But he comes to the room, and you know how
it is with your friends. He comes to the room,
I'm sleep. He comes back at Jawana's like, what is this?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
We're gonna wear those black socks. And Jayalen's like, oh,
let's go to the mall. So Jayleen and Jimmy they
ran to the mall, bought me a pair of black socks,
and so raised frustration and protests turned into brothers saying,
man's shut up, we love you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We're all gonna wear the black socks. And that's a whole.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Nother story because we get in trouble for wearing the
black socks, for not including the rest of our teammates.
So we have the black socks on, We're excited. We
have our sweatpants on. We usually don't warm up with
our sweatpants and warm ups, you know, usually take them
off in the shorts. We kept them on, and we
all get in the starter circle and coaches looking like
(01:50):
what the hell, you know, because it was pretty obvious then.
And then after the game coach was fine, we win it.
But after the game we called it to the side
and said, come on, man, you know I was old.
I'm the oldest of five kids, and he was like,
would you do that with with you know, family members.
He's like, no, we don't do that here. Everybody else
to wear black sox. So he didn't understand how excited
(02:10):
we were that. Really, what he was telling us is, yeah,
y'all can wear them, but everyone can wear them.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
But Ray Jackson was the Ray Jackson was the start
of that. He picked those socks.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What about the baggy shorts. I know Jordan wore baggy shorts,
but you guys went baggier.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, you know it was Illinois and UNLB have really
nice shorts Syracuse. You know, all the guys like Derek
Coleman or Anderson Hunt. They would bring us their shorts
in the summer and give us a pair of shorts.
That was like gifting the guy a car to wear
some official, you know shorts.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Back then, there was no fanatics and you know, no
pramatic fess.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
You could just get them things like that, and so
really what it was a funny story. The day we
get to get our uniforms, we're all super excited. You know,
that's a moment when you get to look at your uniform,
put it on but thanks to Chip Armor and Eric
Riley and all of the old heads, because they wanted
just regular shorts and we were searching for that extra
(03:07):
two inches in the cross in the scene, so we
were able to trade with upper classmen. We didn't get
it yet. And then coach eventually he and coach Dutcher
of San Diego State now Heim Coach Dutcher eventually ordered
us some longer shorts. So we were just complaining the
whole time about you know, our shorts, you know the term.
(03:27):
Then we didn't want Stockton's and we didn't want to
get catch a yeaston section that practice for a teammate
and too tight draws on. So you know, Coach he
was cool. We had some tough practices for it. That's
how we got to earn black socks and everything. He
had to have tough practices, but we earned it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And Alls well, we were talking about the great nicknames.
She had, fab five Fi, Slama Jam and was great,
Hoya Paranoia. Don't know if there's a running Rebels, don't
know if there are any other team nickname the kind
of belongs to that group.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Man, that's good. I wish I had a time to
think about that. One, because that's gonna be on my mind.
I really loved the Running Rebels. I mean to me
it said at all. Even they're Moniker with kind of
the Yosemite Sam type character. You know, I'm in I
think them and Oklahoma got to carry a gun around
there at those times. But yeah, I don't you know,
(04:22):
I've always said the greatest personal nickname to me is
the great one, and then you can.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Go from there. But for the teams, yeah, I think
it have to be made Running Rebels back there?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Were you aware of Georgetown with you ing?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Are you serious?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes? Back home?
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Man, I'm a Jew, I'm a big sports fan, so yeah,
and you gotta remember this well was really smart. And
then talking to Sonny but Carol for my book, he
was a really good guy. But they snuck into our
minds early. So when you talk about Georgetown, yes, do
I love John Thompson.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Do I love Zoe and all the big fellow they
had Ewing and man Tumble, Yes, But what really started
my love for them was the blue and Great Nikes.
It was the blue and gray Starter jacket. And I
don't think then really people remember what an influenced Starter
had in our kind of in our life because you
kind of got to be a pro before you were
(05:18):
a pro and wear what you wanted to wear. So yeah,
for me, it was a really good time of fashion
and where we won. But it all started with which
you could wear on the street. And that's why I
really loved Georgetown because of how cool they were even
before I got to see them on the floor.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, what I was meaning is growing up, you know,
because ewing and hoy you know, Hoya Paranoia was in
the eighties. And I'm just curious if you were old
enough to get gear, if you wanted to get gear
from Georgetown or there was some other school, because I
think you looked at Duke, didn't you. If you didn't
go to Michigan, it was either Michigan State or Duke.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Yes, yes, And so Patrick you and it is a
little older than me, and I didn't get Georgetown gear,
but you would always see all the cool guys in
the neighborhood wearing it. I remember his interview with my father,
you know, telling me where Patrick Geary was from. And
I remember my mother telling me how smart you had
to be to go at Georgetown. So I really remember
(06:16):
those conversations more so than watching Pat play, but coach
Carrill rest in Peace, who was a close close mentor
of mine. When I got into pros, I heard so
many great stories about that Princeton Georgetown game, but those
were much later, So no, I didn't really get to
see that because I was going to Duke. I was
going to Michigan State to be like Steve Smith going
(06:37):
to Duke to play with Grant Hill or you know,
luckily went to Michigan to play with Juwan jay Le
Rain Jim.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Toughest guy you ever faced in college.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Christian Ladner is the best, one of the best college
players of all time. I think of great college players,
I think a Kareem Walton. Of course, there are a
lot of others that are mixed in that have one
or two great years, but it was by far, by
(07:13):
far Christian Layner for me, because sorry Christian Layner and
Big Dalton Robinson, because those two, Glenn Robinson, those two
were the first big guys that could put it on
the floor, that could dribble, that could pump fake, that
could get you in foul trouble, that played outside the game.
You know, when you look at the evolution of the game,
we grew up when big guys weren't supposed to handle it,
and so Layton being able to shoot three of these
(07:35):
late there being able to just do all the stuff
that he did from a freshman all the way to
a senior.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I would definitely say in my time, I think he
was the toughest for me to play play against.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Do you ever have a conversation with him about that
rivalry and games you guys played against each other?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
No, no, no, but it's it's overdue, it's long overdue.
We should have a beer over it, because I think
I told you this before. My best one of my
best college visits if I had, you know, eight or
nine of them, was definitely at Duke and uh and
later there was my host, so I was very familiar
with him when we played.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's why we talked so much junk to each other. Uh.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And you know he knew my admiration. But the more
admiration I have for you to more to try to
kill you anyway. And I think that's the same with him.
But now we haven't talked about it, but you know,
it'd be fun, fun, fun to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It would be it'd be a fun podcast where it's
just you two talking about that time. Because you had
Duke the establishment, you guys, you know, freshmen and uh
going toe to toe with them. Well, you probably had
people who liked you because they hate hated Duke so much.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They did.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And also I had people that were mad at me
because I didn't hate Duke. I mean, I hate them
because I wanted to beat him. But all of the
other talk and this that I didn't get into it
because I hated them enough just from basketball and I
went to visit there, and I wanted to be part
of you know, of that team. But you know, Coach
K is such a special guy. And you know, when
(09:07):
I think about and again keep saying to the book,
by Guy's grace, when I think about Coach K coming
to my house and recruiting me, he was an enemy territory. Actually,
my friends were screaming one O three seventy three, one
O three seventy three. That was the score that they
lost against UNLV, And people are outside chanting as while
(09:28):
he's walking in my house and all he does is
turn around on the court and the justice ring, and
everybody's like, So when I saw Coach K's toughness, you
know in the hood and how he was and you know,
respectful comparis and all that.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
He's always been one of my favorite coaches in the
game as well.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Okay, wait a minute, your boys are outside. Coach K's
walking into your house and they're mocking him of getting
blown out by thirty by UNLV.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Dan, I actually got to send this to you because
I interviewed my guys on the porch that he walked
in and they were saying it because my father was like,
don't tell anybody, you know, Coach K's coming, and so
the whole neighborhood, dude, And so he gets out of
the car and they are just booming. But when he
walked back out, people are like, yeah, coach, you know,
you know, good job. So he earned our respect. But yeah,
(10:16):
coach Coach K was tough. It's not just it's not
just an act. You know, he's a he's a good
guy and toughs at heart, and so he's always had
my respect. He is all remind me a lot of
each other too, and I consider Coach is a very
close friend.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Chris Weber, the Hall of Famer member of the Fab Five,
more concerned about transfer portal or ni l in the
future for the sport.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Can you separate them? Can there be onee out the other?
You know, I'm you know, I'm very happy that you know,
anytime you're in the beginning of any new system, it's
going to be terrible and he's gonna have to figure
it out. So I can't wait until the playing field
levels and we figure it out. But I think coaches
(11:01):
are getting a taste of their medicine. You want to
leave your guys and coach and leave, well, some guys
are going to leave you mentally late in the season
when you decide that. But also I hope that players
start to understand that the same love and passion should
be there. But even more than ever, you made a
commitment now, and I've talked to a lot of young players,
(11:22):
and I don't know, I talked to a lot of
young players, and we are working through understanding that you're
getting paid for this commitment now.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So you have no excuse.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
But you still need to come with the same energy
and innocence of passion that you would have played with.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And how do you figure that out? I think some
guys are figuring out.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I also think some players are looking mid season saying, well,
I'm averaging eight, I can go average ten here next
year in a crazy, unsubstantiated situation, and then they go
into the transfer portaland no one picks them up. You know,
it's a it's a it's a difficult time right now.
And I think everyone from coaches, players are all kind
(12:06):
of getting used to seeing like how is this.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Gonna gonna level out?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
But that needs to be more discussion and hopefully more
leveling of the playing field so everyone can get comfortable.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, I'm wondering about that that if you get money
when you're in college, does that help you when you
go to the pros and get money because a lot
of times you go into the pros and you go
crazy because you haven't had this kind of money and
you buy stupid things. Did you do that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Every every every everybody, everybody, Yeah yeah, yeah, everybody's done that.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
And I thought it was sports until I talked to
a lot of my friends in VC and others and
I found out it's all people that do that. But
I definitely, uh, you know, it was one of those guys.
But you're going to do that, I think too.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
With guys.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Let's take a guy like a big fella from Kansas fixer.
He was, he was at Michigan, and I say this,
it was he's a really good guy and he plays
with passion. He's so hard. He wanted to stay at
Michigan and he's going, I'm not playing pro now. I
(13:16):
think he's a pro. So I'm not having that conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He's a pro. He's a posy pro.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
But that was the conversation, and the conversation asked to me,
who was someone had never been in that position?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
What would you do?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
You know?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Because my thing was, you can stay here for legacy.
You being in Michigan four years and having records and numbers.
Do you know what that's light when you get older
to be able to come back to Michigan and say.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
That you're a part of it. This is a wonderful university.
And I think that.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I think that that factor has been taking out of
the decision making because guys are saying, you know what,
I might not make the pose, I might not have
the luxury of getting a paycheck and buying something stupid.
I need to make as much as I can now
prepare for a professional career overseas or in coaching. So
I think guys are battling with the lot of different
decisions that really are they're struggling with that they don't
(14:03):
want to have. I was talking with Deon Sanders for
a show I'm doing, and he was telling me that
the parents were more of a problem with the portal
and with NIL than the students because the students haven't
lived life enough to kind of uh be that greedy
yet or order order to uh just not put team first.
(14:25):
And so again, I think it's a lot of different situations.
You know, guys are getting taxed off the ni L
and didn't know they were getting taxed, and parents for you,
So it's it's just so much going on that that
that hopefully again the dust your cells.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
What's the craziest thing that you spent money on early?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean, I've.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, I was smart to begin it because I
wanted to get my parents everything so and I had
a big family. But for me, I mean, you know,
the day you know I got drafted, it was have
a chapter in my book called gators for everybody. So
gators are you know, are a shoe? Now I looked
at this so damn stupid, but gators are a shoe?
And back then it was big block gators and you
(15:11):
know from guys in the hood, the preachers, anybody had gators.
And so what did I do. I went and bought
gators for everyone in my neighborhood. I mean, even if
they didn't have a suit. Hey, why don't you had
some gators?
Speaker 5 (15:23):
And take this?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
So you know, oh man, I took friends to restaurants.
You know that we had never been to. So I
got a little across the street from your bookie rest
of Peace. Uh, just stupid stuff. You go to restaurants,
you pork and coch and hot sauce, and you say
that guy here, I gave you five thousand dollars if
you eat it, and you're happy because you were gonna
give them something anyway.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
But you know your friends, you have to bust them up.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And so you know, I've done a lot more worse things,
I'm sure, and in other areas of life. But I
remember when I first got it was a Oh one
of the one of the most fun things I did
the probably was stupid. I went to a music I
had a truck of white suburban when they first came out,
and I asked him to give me the loudest sounds
in the world, and the guy laughed, and I immediately
(16:08):
walked out and went down the street and asked the
guy for the loud of sounds in the world. He
was like, I could do that, and so I took
out every seat besides the front two seats I had
sixteen twelve, fourteen age.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I'm crazy, and I used to just love driving down.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
The street making alarms go off or breaking my window
in the back, and so I think that's pretty stupid to,
you know, put you know, fifty thousand dollars forty thousand
dollars worth of sounds in your truck and only one
person could fit in and you can't even put your
lugga jambler.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
It was a good time. So it was a good time.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, but here's your dad who worked factory for all
of those years. Did he ever say what are you doing?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
You know, yeah, yeah, But the story timeline keep going,
I know, show I don't want to keep going with them.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Why do you bought him a Cadillac? Right?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
But that was the best thing.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I told him Magic was coming to the house, and
I went to the UH and he loves magic. I
went to the our dealership Cadillac, and people started cheering
when I went in because they knew my father had worked.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
For GM for you know, many many years, and I
bought him Cadillac.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I had to cut the grass meticulously now and you
never got to play football on my grass or anything.
I drive the car on the grass stand it. My
father comes out at six and it's about seven in
the morning, and that was one of the more special
moments of my life. Getting yelled at while throwing the
keys to my father while he was driving off telling.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Me to make sure I take care of the grass
was a pretty cool moment.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Always great. Thank you for storytelling time, Chris. We appreciate
your time as always.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Thanks, Dan, appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
He is Chris Webber. He is a Hall of Famer
and number one overall picked by the Magic back in
nineteen ninety three. A lot of fun. I always appreciate
conversations with him. Mark, we'll take a break. More of
your phone calls coming up back after this.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
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Speaker 6 (18:05):
Hey Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 7 (18:11):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I mean that says.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern, two to four Pacific, And if you
miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
That's Veino and Rich, Paul schemes. He is one of
three MLB The Show twenty five cover athletes. This is
the twentieth anniversary honoring two decades of baseball history. Elie
de la Cruz and Gunner Henderson are on the cover
as well. The Pirates Rookie of the Year joining us
(19:20):
on the program. What did you learn from your rookie
year or what do you wish that you had known
in your rookie year or when you were in the
college minor leagues coming up to the Pirates.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean the biggest thing I learned from getting
to the big leagues is that the game is a
lot more similar than I thought in terms of the
actual the baseball, you know play. Everything that's added on
makes it a lot harder. So traveling cross country, we
had a couple of cross country flights last year. Our
(19:54):
travel within the division's pretty good, you know, our hour
long or less than an hour long flights for the
most part within our division. But still, I mean, you
got the media in the in the locker room every day.
The food is different. It's it's better, but there's more
of it, so it's easy to you know, overindulge, just
(20:15):
a lot of a lot of little stuff like that
that makes it, uh just makes it makes it different
and probably makes it a little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
What's the strangest thing you've thought of while you were
on the mound?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Man?
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Probably like doing math problems or something like that. I
don't know if you've ever seen I think it was
Major League or Major League two. The catcher is is,
you know, learning to get over the yips, and he
like memorizes a PLAYBOYD magazine or something like that, and
I do that with math problems rather than you know,
(20:54):
PLAYBOYD magazines.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
But how does that help you?
Speaker 8 (20:59):
I mean, because it's it's very so it's very easy
to like focus too hard and try to execute a pitch,
you know, and then you just completely sail it or
like pull a slider or sail a heat or something
like that. So like having your mind not you know,
solely focused on on that pitch. It like a little
(21:22):
bit of distraction is sometimes a good thing.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Give me the guy that you keep an eye on
in the on deck circle that you know he's coming
to the plate.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
It's probably one per team. Usually it's like the three
hitter or something like that. Maybe it's to a team,
it's because we kind of like bucket hitters a little
bit to where we can pitch them similarly to get
them out. But there's always like one guy in the
lineup that's like, hey, this guy doesn't beat us. So
(21:56):
I mean it's the one Soto's the day, look, Elid Cruise,
Cody Boudrew, those types of guys. They I mean, you
know they're coming out.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
What do you do when you disagree with your catcher?
Speaker 8 (22:11):
Just shake? I'll wear a pitch com too, and and
I'll punch it in sometimes, but yeah, just shake there.
There are no hard feelings there, but.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
You have final say yeah.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
I mean if I my experience is generally, if I
throw a pitch that I don't wholly believe in, it
doesn't end well. So I have to, you know, throw
out pitches that I believe in out there with you know,
full conviction, and that it generally ends ends pretty well.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But when you give up a big hit or a
home run in college, it's one thing, But when you
have thousands and thousands of people and you know it's
going to end up on Sports Center, Like, how do
you process that differently? If you can? Then when you
were in college and you gave up a home.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Run, yeah, honestly, And I think this is probably more
of a change for me. But I think I took it, like,
took it harder, took it, took it more personally when
I was in college than I do now. And I
think there are probably a couple of reasons for that.
I've I think I've matured, grown up a little bit,
but also, uh, we get to do it more often now.
(23:17):
In college, it's like, you know, the SEC is the
biggest thing in the world and nothing else matters, Like
that's that's the that's what they feed you, right, So
when I give up a home run at Ole Miss
and the beers flying everywhere, like it feels like the
end of the world a little bit more than it
does now. When I give up a home run in
you know, Dodger Stadium or something like that, it's just
And I think I think part of that's because it's
(23:39):
it's so routine now, but I think a lot of
it's because I've just like grown up to.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Talking to Paul's schemes and he's one of three MLB
The show twenty five cover athletes. You've got Gunner Henderson
and Ellie Dela Cruz tell us about the honor. How
did you find out?
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Yeah, I can't remember exactly when I found out, because
there's just something that I think, you know, we were
in the talks for for I don't know, probably the
last summer, last September around there kind of blends together
when we're in season. But it was cool when I,
you know, found out that it's you know, no kidding happening.
(24:24):
I mean, definitely some satisfaction there is. It's it's pretty cool.
I've you know, grown up seeing you know, the cover
athletes of the show and and seeing the game. It's
been a huge part of a lot of people's childhood.
I think, as like the game that they want to
play when they when they get to play video games.
So gamer, I'm not. I'm not really a gamer at all.
(24:52):
So yeah, So the only time I would play the
show because I never had a PlayStation or Xbox or anything. Uh,
And the only time I would play the show when
I like went to you know, my my buddy's house
or something like that and they had it. But I've
always been terrible at it. And if I'm the kind
of person like if I'm not good at something, I
just won't. I'll just stop doing it. Yeah, I'm the
(25:14):
I'm gonna take my ball and go home type of guy.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
How territorial are you when it comes to the SEC,
whether it's football fourteen schools are in the NCAA tournament
the baseball with the SEC? Are you annoying to be
around when it's conversations about the SEC?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Now?
Speaker 8 (25:33):
Because I'm a I'm a baseball guy first football, I
could kind of care less about. I mean, I'm a
true believer that because I'm an SEC guy. But I'm
a Mountain West guy too, and I'm a true believer
that the Mountain West just breeds winners. So I'm probably
more territory about the Mountain West because it's not a
you know, people don't people don't know about the Mountain West.
(25:54):
But that's where that's where champions are made. I believe that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Okay, But you're in Pittsburgh. They love their football there.
Do you go to you care about? Do you go
to games?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
But I mean because I look at college baseball and
call and uh and pro baseball is two different sports.
I I I never played football. I don't understand what's
going on out there. I know that you're supposed to
move the ball down the field. But I viewed college
football and pro football is two different sports too. So
I've gone to a Steelers game. It was it was
(26:28):
really cool. I want to go back. I'm a Steelers fan,
you know, now bleed black and gold. So but yeah,
I don't, I don't. They're fun to the games are
fun to go to.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Are you gonna be okay with the automatic strike zone?
Speaker 8 (26:47):
Yeah, Hey, it's not in there this year, so I'm
I'm happy with that. I haven't. I haven't challenged anything
this spring. It's not going to be in there this
year when it comes it comes. I I like the
human aspect of the game because I think that, you know,
there are games where the umpire zone is big and
there are games where the umpire zone as small. Obviously catchers,
(27:10):
you bring in the automatic strike zone, then it completely
devalues framing, which you know, effectively eliminates the catching position.
So I have mixed feelings toward it. I do like
the human aspect of the game, but there's definitely something
to be said about, you know, being objective with the
(27:31):
strike zone.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, but when you're at the plate and all of
a sudden there's a you know, a star pitcher and
he gets a call. You're okay with that and it's
not a strike, but because of who he is, Justin
Berlander is going to get that call.
Speaker 8 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean I prefer it that way. I don't
have to hit anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Do you want to hit?
Speaker 7 (27:54):
No?
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Maybe BP occasionally, but I don't want to face Justin Berlander.
I don't want to face anything. These other guys they're
too they're too uh, they're too good.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
If you were building the perfect picture, so you gave
me fastball, slider, curveball, change up. Who's using your fastball?
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Yeah, i'd like to think all four of those are
you know mine, but uh, let's just part the taste. Yeah,
I mean, because you can't use my fastball with like
because I would say, like my fastball and Clayton Kershaw's
curveball or something like that, but like we're the exact
(28:38):
opposite pitchers. Basically, I'd like to thank my fastball, Kershaw's
curveball for sure, just to straight up and down curveball,
change up, Scooball those are two lefties, slider man, there
(29:02):
are so many good ones. I think a nice like
for for me, like a downer, a downer slider like
a de Gram, like a shorter downer slider, because that's
something I don't have. But there's I mean, strider's slider.
There's so many, so many ways, so many different ways
(29:23):
to have a good slider, though so specifically a slider.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's amazing that these guys can hit this stuff. I mean,
they talked about hitting a baseball is the hardest thing
to do, and they're guys that are hitting one hundred
miles an hour and it's like, so what.
Speaker 8 (29:42):
Yeah, I don't I don't know how they do it.
I'll let them do it. That's why I'm not going
to try to try to get back in the box.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
UH.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Congratulations Opening Day, Congratulations on MLB the show, that's the
UH cover with Elie Dela Cruz, Gunner Henderson, and and
this is honoring the twentieth anniversary of that great to
talk to you again, Paul. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, no,
I really appreciate it, Paul Skeins.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio WAP.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Steve lap is joining us on loan from CBS Sports
studio analyst and college basketball analyst. Former college hoo coach
at Manhattan, Villanova and UMass. You've done a great job
and I've been meaning to reach out to you the
last couple of years. Every time I hear you in
the tournament and I always go, we should get Steve
lapis On. I love the energy that you have. It's
(30:41):
great to see you again, coach. How you doing you, Dan,
It's been a long time. I think I go back
to when was the first time I met you Villanova.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
Probably Villanova, maybe even Villanova's.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
An assistant coach as I was from eighty five to
eighty eight, so probably back then.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
So you came up with the game planned to beat
Georgetown in the NCAA finals.
Speaker 9 (31:07):
You know what.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
That was my first year Dan, as an assistant coach.
Speaker 9 (31:10):
I came from high school the year before, and people
asked me about that all the time.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I said, boy, what did you do? I said, well,
I was getting the coffee, the sneakers. I was doing
all those things in my first year.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And I always maintain when people talk about that as
one of the great upsets of all time, and I said,
I don't think it is. I think NC State beating
Houston was a bigger upset Villanova. You had played Georgetown,
and I think he lost by six or eight points,
So you knew what you you know, you knew the battle,
you knew the Big East, you knew Georgetown, and therefore
(31:43):
I don't view it as that big of an upset,
even though you guys had to play pretty much the
perfect game. How do you view it? Dan?
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I tell people that all the time.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
I know, you know it's great for us that we
were part of his greatest upset ever.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
But you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 9 (31:57):
We played them twice that year, lost by four, lost
by six. The year before that, when I wasn't there,
they beat Georgetown. Villanova Eddie picked me as a sophomore,
had twenty two points and twenty rebounds against Patrick Ewing
in a game that was an epic.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
So we knew we did.
Speaker 9 (32:17):
We didn't feel it like getting ready for the game.
I mean, we knew we had to play well. There's
no question that was an unbelievable team. And let's understand this.
We shot seventy nine percent. We won by two, so
you know what I mean? That tells you how good
they were, but I can't agree with you more. You know,
when you play somebody twice a year, we had seen
Patrick Ewing nine times before that. They would have intimidated
(32:40):
anybody else they played. And I'll be honest with you,
we were happy we weren't playing Saint John's. It was
a worst matchup for us because we were a matchup
zone team and Chris Mullen was obviously one of the
best shooters in the world. Georgetown wasn't a good shooting team.
We liked that matchup better than Saint John's.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, you start to look at the all time
greats in college basketball. I don't know if Christian Latner
is the last of the old time greats because they're
not staying three or four years. It's usually if you're
really good. I mean, Cooper Flag could be one of
the great players of all time, but he's just going
to be a footnote of a one and done at
Duke and maybe they win a national title.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
You know, there's no doubt this is a new age.
Speaker 9 (33:21):
You know, we're not going to see the Bill Waltons
and the Leuel Senders, and you know, the even you know,
Christian Latner, who was a good pro but wasn't like
obviously Bill Walton or Leuel Sender, yeah, or even Pat
Patrick Ewing was one.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Of the greatest college players that ever was. So, you know,
it's just.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
A different age now, and even now it's even gotten
crazier with this nil and transfer portal.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Even schools themselves forget about the general public.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
It's hard for schools themselves to honor guys that are
only their school for one year and then they're gone.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I wondered about this. I brought it up with Dan Dakich,
and I said, in Indiana never reached out to Steve
Alford to coach there, because you know, Clyde Drexler was
at Houston, Mullen was at Saint John's, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown.
You can't hire somebody unless you know you can fire them.
And I'm just I was always curious why Steve Alford
(34:17):
never got the opportunity to coach Indiana.
Speaker 9 (34:20):
You know, that's that's a great point because here's a
guy who's won seven hundred games in his career.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
He's been a tremendous coach his whole life. From a
young age.
Speaker 9 (34:30):
He obviously was one of the greatest players in the
history of the school, you know, win the championship in
eighty seven, and yeah, it's just a surprising thing. What now.
I think probably part of it has to do with
the fact that they did coach at Iowa. That may
have you know, he's got that job when he was younger,
and maybe that hurt him a little bit that he
coached another Big ten school. But he's a tremendous coach
(34:51):
and you know, would have been a great one at
at Indiana, no question.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
All right, you called games in Providence, so you had
Arkansas over Camp since he had Saint John's over Omaha,
and that sets up Pattino Caliperi. Where did that relationship
goes sideways between those two?
Speaker 9 (35:08):
You know, I think it went sideways like a long
time ago, to be honest, I think it's actually a
little better now.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
You know.
Speaker 9 (35:15):
I think part of it was when John Caliperry got
the UMass job. Rick Patino's a UMass graduate and he
had some input into you know, who was going to
coach at the school, and it got out that Rick
Pattino was not in Caliberry's corner. For Caliberry to get
the job, he wanted somebody else to get So I
(35:35):
think that's kind of where starting.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
We all knew each other.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
We all met each other at the five Star basketball
camp back in nineteen eighty, so, you know, he go,
we go back a long way, and those two guys
go back a long way, and I think that's where
and then the rivalry just grew because you know, John,
they're both big personalities, as we know, and they both
you know, feel like they're great basketball coaches, which they
(35:59):
are are, and you know, I think the rivalry just
grew from there.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
But I think it started with the UMass job.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And I forget who we had on but they they
said Jim Beheim, and Beheim said, you can put Patino
there with Mike Skryzchewsky like he's he's on that level.
Nobody's where Wooden is, you know, for obvious reasons. But
he said, as far as modern day basketball coaches, greatest
of all time, he would put Patino right there with
(36:28):
coach k What about you?
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Absolutely, Dan, no question. I mean, think about it. Besides
the fact he's.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
Got the eight hundred and seventy five whatever wins, think
about all the years he spent in the NBA, so
he would have a lot.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
More wins in college. He's got two titles.
Speaker 9 (36:43):
You know, I always tell people me personally, like people
ask me all the time, if you had the one
game you got to win one game, who would you
want to coach? I said, there's two people, Bob Knight
and Rick Patino if I gotta win one game.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well that's how he praised there.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
He'll not.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
K you know here, Coach k was a great coach.
Speaker 9 (37:09):
I look at those guys different see Coach k he
was maybe the greatest leader of all time. That was
his things leadership. Not that he wasn't next to no guy.
Knight and uh Patino. Those guys were tinkerers. They were
excell No, not that I'm not in Please, I don't
want anybody to take this like, oh what are you
(37:30):
talking about?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Mike.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
Mike chefs all time, the best, one of the best.
But those two guys were like they would tinker for
game plans. Mikeae Shewski's philosophy was this is what we
do and we will do it better than what you
do and we're gonna win. These guys they would change things.
They would change this guy and report they tweaked this,
tweak that, and that's why. I mean one game, those
(37:50):
guys will game plan to make it hard.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
For you to win.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Steve Lapis CBS Sports college basketball analyst. He has McNee
State and Purdue and Arkansas and Saint John Waite. Are
you working in Are you the early game here?
Speaker 8 (38:08):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:08):
No, tomorrow, My game is.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Oh tomorrow. I was gonna say, oh, yeah, okay. I
was like, boy, I'm uh holding you back here?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
No, no, no, I had before yesterday.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Okay, do you have any problem with will Wade coaching
in the tournament knowing that he's going to take another job. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
I mean, let's face it, it's it's not a great situation,
you know, for the kids, school or anybody.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I will say this about will Wade, though, he was
very honest. I was shocked.
Speaker 9 (38:34):
You know, you know how it is, Dane. You've been
doing this role so long. People say, well, you.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Know, I don't want to talk about that now or whatever.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
He was very open, he said. We asked him, he
said at the practice day before. He said, yeah, I'm
talking to NC State. He says, but I told my
players that, and my players I'm going to help them
get to the next level. If guys want to transfer,
we talked very openly about this, so I don't like it,
but I give the guy credit that he hasn't hit
from it. They were honest, they didn't lie, and you know,
(39:03):
you gotta there's something to be said for that too.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm okay with the transparency. I just find it
a little weird that he's helping the university, but he
might hurt the university because maybe he takes some of
these players with him de n C State, maybe part
of the coaching staff as well. So yes, you're helping,
but then he could be hurting here in a week
or two.
Speaker 9 (39:25):
There's no definite, there's no there's no doubt that if
we were gonna put a scale which which way is
worse than the other, there's no doubt that the fact
that this came out and that.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
He's going, he's worse for the school and everybody involved.
Speaker 9 (39:37):
The only thing I'm saying is it's a bad situation
and he didn't lie about it.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
What's it like to get fired?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
You know, it's uh, it's it's it's it's a it's
it's an interesting question. Obviously, his stings, as we know.
Speaker 9 (39:59):
But the thing that gets you more than anything else,
is that you spend your whole life doing this thing
that you think you're pretty good at and it's kind
of been your dream and then all of a sudden,
you know it could be over, and so you spend
all your life from when you're a kid, you know,
I know, for me, from when I was a kid,
(40:21):
it's all I wanted to do was coach, coach, coach.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I grew up in New York City and I coached
in high school JV.
Speaker 9 (40:26):
I came up the ranks, and then you know, when
that happens, it's a jolt because this is what you
want to do, and now you don't even know.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
If you're gonna be able to keep doing it.
Speaker 9 (40:37):
And it's not like, you know, if you're an accountant
and you get let go of an accountant, you'll probably
find another accountant job. Unless you were scaling or something,
you'll find another account job. This business is very small,
and you know, I mean, unfortunately, college coaches don't get
recycled the way they do in the NBA. So you know,
I had to kind of remake myself, you know, by
(40:58):
getting into TV, and it's worked out unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
CBS has been great to meet. And the other thing
about it, Dan, is you know, publicly.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
It's embarrassing, you know what I mean. You know, it's
in the something happens to you like that's in the newspapers.
It's you know, everybody knows, everybody knows it. It's not
like you know, again, you work in an accounting firm
or whatever, and so something that you can not say
anything to anybody, nobody will know. Everybody knows. And let's
face it, and I don't think so. I think I
got cut short at you masks big time. I think
(41:27):
we were on the on.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
The right road.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
But you know what happens is you know, that's my story.
Speaker 9 (41:33):
The story on the outside is this guy wasn't good
enough and that's sucks.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
What do you see with Cooper Flag If I said, uh,
maybe question marks with him of what he's going to
take to the NBA about his game?
Speaker 9 (41:49):
Question marks? Boy, it's really hard to find him. You know,
you wonder because he's so skilled. You know, we're talking
about a guy who lead his team in every category.
So I mean, here's a six nine, six ten kid
who not only shoots, rebounds, assists, steals blots.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I mean he does it all now?
Speaker 9 (42:09):
College basketball is different today than it was, you know,
twenty years ago. There's no doubt about it. But you know,
I would say, how's he going to hold up physically?
If I had to pick something, That's probably where I
would go, is how's he going to hold up physically?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I don't know if you had conversations or you've talked
to coaches who've had these conversations when a kid thinks
he's ready. I remember talking to Jim Beayheim about this,
and he had a player who wanted to go, and
he said, don't go. And the player went and didn't succeed,
But he said, you know, I'm I'm assessing your talent.
(42:46):
Do I want you to go if you're ready to go? Yes?
But I think the player may have thought that Jim
was being selfish by saying, no, you're not ready to go.
But it turns out, you know, the kid wasn't ready
to go. It's a tough conversation to have, I would say,
because it's a kid. And then you have parents who
are involved in this. So do you have any background
(43:06):
stories on that?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (43:08):
I mean I had I had two kids.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
I had, you know, Tim Thomas and Kerry Kittles and
and Tim was one of the first guys to leave
after year. He left in nineteen ninety seven. He stayed
one year. He left, and I didn't think he was ready.
And I and I'll tell you what I told him.
I said, Tim, here's the thing I think you need
because that team that he was on his freshman year,
(43:30):
we had three seniors who were really good players, who
had been there for four years and won a lot
of games, and so he was obviously a big part
of the scouting report, but he was.
Speaker 5 (43:38):
A deep part of the scouting report.
Speaker 9 (43:40):
And I said, I think you need a year where
this thing is going to focus on you. You are
the We had these other three singers that were all
good players, so it was hard for you to just
get all of the attention in the scouting report or whatever.
I said, I think you need a year of being
the man here. It's on you. You got to get
this done for us to win. It's not like last year.
(44:02):
We can go into the background and we could still win.
Here it's about you now. The difference for Tim was
his mom was older. She was cleaning houses, you know,
you know, so you know, from a financial standpoint, he
had to go.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
He wasn't ready from a basketball stand, but he had
a good career. Don't get me long. He made a
lot of money.
Speaker 9 (44:23):
I don't know if Tim ever really became I thought
he could be an NBA All Star.
Speaker 5 (44:27):
He wasn't.
Speaker 9 (44:27):
He was a really good player, and I'm not saying
that's why he wasn't. But you know, it's funny, Dan,
he came back to me like two years later.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
As the boy coach.
Speaker 9 (44:35):
I wish I would have stayed because not so much
for the not so much for the basketball even, but
just to be a college kid.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
For another year. It's not the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
All right, give me the team that could make it
to the Final four where we'll look back and say,
I'll be damn. Steve Lapis knew what he was talking about.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Maryland. You know, Maryland is a team and it's kind
of under the rate.
Speaker 9 (44:56):
I mean, I could easily give you, you know, Houston, Auburn,
But a team that you got.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
To keep your eye on is Maryland.
Speaker 9 (45:04):
Maryland's starting five is as good as any starting five
in the country. They have no bench, So now could
that get them in the end. Yeah, they get into
some foul, trouble, whatever. You know, this thing, this tournament.
One game, you're out, but you take you keep an
eye on Maryland in.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
Terms of what they do.
Speaker 9 (45:21):
Now you watch the loose today because you know what,
in my house, we used to have a pool every year, me,
my wife and my two kids.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I was last every year of the four of us.
So that tells you where this thing is at.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I like Maryland, but I don't like what's going on
with the coach and the athletic director there. It feels
like both are out the door. And now you're gonna
face Grand Cannon. And I know you're ten and a
half point favorites, but I just if you're not focused, man,
it just it'll bite you right in the ass. That
that would be my big concern with Maryland.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
Well you know that that was.
Speaker 9 (45:54):
My concern about McNee yesterday and I said it.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
They couldn't played any better. So you know you're right.
And I said the same thing yesterday. I'm not saying
it again because the McNees they burned me.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yes. Uh, keep the passion, keep the enthusiasm and thanks
for joining us, Steve.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Davey.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
It's an honor to be on with you.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Thank you, Thank you, Bud. Steve Lapis, CBS Sports college
basketball Analyst,
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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