October 30, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk to the former football player and award-winning producer Emmanuel Acho about why he rejected the NFL and rebranded as a media influencer. In this conversation, they discuss the business of the NFL, why Acho’s “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man” video series became a viral success and how he’s revitalizing sports media with his new show “Speakeasy.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the deal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez, and coming up Emmanuel Acho.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
He played in the NFL. He knows a lot about
the business of big football. He is a media personality.
He's got a new show called Speakeasy. We're going to
get into all of it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He is the perfect guest. I'm so excited Jason when
we came over with the show a couple of years ago.
He is the epitome of what we were thinking about
sports media culture. He speaks at a very high level.
He's also going to tell us why the NFL is
king and getting bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
He brings a lot of energy, So get ready. Coming up,
Emmanuel Acho. We're here in Los Angeles with Emmanuel Acho,
someone Alex who, when we think about this show, is
(01:01):
just right there, right at this intersection that we love
of business, sports and culture, in part because of the NFL.
So first of all, welcome, thank you. We're so happy
to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Glad to be here. Yeah, so great to have you
in the show. My first question right off the top
has to be the NFL. Now I'm coming from the
lens of I'm right in the midst of my October
media with Fox and doing my coverage for the playoffs
and World Series and everything the NFL does. It works
big now. I remember in two thousand and four when
(01:32):
we play the Red Sox, we were getting twenty five thirty
thirty five million people watching. Today is a fraction of that.
The NFL keeps getting bigger, so you're like ten x
bigger than us. What is the secret sauce of the
NFL magic? What is it?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I think the biggest thing is the NFL never overextended.
The NFL made sure like as the viewers grew, it
extended the games in parallel to the viewers growing. I
think the NFL, probably better than any other sports industry,
has matched demand with supply. Is you could suggest the MLB,
You could suggest the NBA. So much supply but not
(02:05):
necessarily that much demand. Like eighty two NBA games, we
don't watch all of them anymore. Baseball now we obviously
care in October. But the dilemma is, there's so much
supply it doesn't directly correlate to the demand. Where's the
NFL bro when you only have sixteen of them, and
now there's seventeen of them as of the last four years.
Everyone matters, and I think what's missed and not talked
(02:27):
about enough is fans are a reflection of the players.
If the players care, the fans care. If the players
don't care, the fans don't care. In the NFL, all
of the players care about every single game, in part
because our contracts aren't guaranteed. In secondary part, there's only
so many games. The fan is simply a mirror, and
whatever the player does, the fan reflects back onto the player.
(02:50):
And that's I would suggest, the secret sauce of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
To that point about scarcity, the fascinating that the NFL is.
It still finds all these ways to be in our
lives all the time. So you're right, You're totally right.
Seventeen games and yet the NFL draft, the NFL combat
like it has become like all this psych yeah, really
(03:14):
really rich content. So how are they doing that? Right?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
The NFL has done a great job making everything feel big.
The NFL draft. It used to be in what Radio
City Music Hall that felt big, and then when the
deal with Radio City Music Hall fell apart, they were like,
you know what, we're going to make it a spectacle.
We're going to move from one city to another, and
they've done a great job of not going to cities
(03:37):
with a lot of distractions, make them feel iconic. Super Bowl,
you're gonna have a megastar celebrity performing there. We joke
half the time that it's a Beyonce concert at a
football game, right, you know what I mean? Like, I
think the NFL does such a good job making it
feel big. But then again, when you have less events,
you can make them all feel big. Yeah, you can't
(03:58):
make every baseball game feel big. It's too many of them.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
That's such an interesting point about the I mean the
halftime show. It's like, you know, bad Bunny being announced
to perform, like dominated the news cycle for like.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Three greats And think about for a second last year's
Super Bowl. It leveraged a cultural beef that had nothing
to do with the sport of football. Right, It had
nothing to do Kendrick exactly right. Like, it leveraged a
completely different entity than the actual game itself, which we
don't see that often enough in other sports.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, I'll give you the best one. That's been the
biggest number we've done over the last fifty years, it's
been Will Series nine, Game two. Right before the game,
here comes Alisha Keys and jay z Empire state of mind.
The song was very much synonymous with our season and
that team. But it was a magical moment and we've
never done it again since last year with I think
it was a was it a fajoe and.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yes, But that's a really good point. I think if
you can find a way to leverage another industry or
to somebody else's success, that I think is how you
can create more success. There's not enough like discussion outside
of the games, the sports shows that are going on
daily that are driving people because of storylines. Caitlin Clark,
a Derreese. You have heroes, you have villains. You have
(05:16):
villains to some you have heroes to others. That drives viewership.
Caitlyn's a great basketball player. It's not that alone. It's
the storylines. And I think in baseball last year it
was popping because we had or we had Yankees, Dodgers.
If you have storylines, you had iconic franchises, iconic brands,
you had show Hey, you had Judge. You have storylines.
I don't think we have that enough in baseball, and
(05:39):
I don't think we have that enough in basketball either,
because everybody's also all buddy buddy in basketball.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, before we move in from the NFL, I have
to ask you about sort of one of the mega
sort of deal points, which is new money coming in
private equity ownership. You know, this is Bloomberg, after all,
we look so much at that devaluation sort of just
I mean, climbing and climbing. What do you make of
money coming in as a former player, as someone who
(06:06):
watches this game so closely, what's the net effect that
it's having.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'm looking at everything from a player standpoint first and foremost,
and so one of the contracts are going crazy, Yeah,
you know what I mean. Like back in the day
when I was leaving the NFL in twenty fifteen, highest
paid players were probably making twenty five twenty six million
dollars a year. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the forty nine
ers and was the highest paid quarterback I believe at
twenty eight million dollars a year. Now Dak Prescott's making
(06:30):
sixty million dollars a year, you.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So the very first thing I'd take ten that is
is just the number in the contracts. The second thing
is eventually there's going to be a rub, and there's
going to be a rub because at the point in
time you have that new CBA and players are going
to start to look around and say, hold on a second, now,
all these billions of dollars in TV revenue, I want mine.
And so that's the second thing. Always looking from a
(06:54):
player's perspective at the rub. But I think lastly, it's
cool to see the NFL continuing to grow at such
an exptal rate, and now I just want to see, like,
how can we get more diversity and ownership.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And what do you suggest for that?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The first thing is I love how people are pulling together.
It's no longer just like one family and y'all are
exclusively owning it. I love how it's like, hey, no,
we're going to bring in this office and this office
might have a couple different names on it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, one of my great mentors is Jerry Reinsdorf.
The days of him buying the Bulls for sixteen million
and the White Sex for nineteen are long gone. I mean,
these numbers are getting so big that you need groups
to come.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You need groups. And I also think now athletes can
know it's possible. You know what I mean what you've
done with Minnesota. Now athletes can know it's possible. Before
you can ever be something, you got to see something
you feel. Me like, thinking about owning a team's what how?
But now that we've seen different athletes do it, even
you know, I'm trying to do different things by owning
different with WNBA teams and getting in different groups to
(07:52):
own WNBA teams because I'm like, now that I've seen
different individuals do it, all right, Acha, like it's possible,
go make it possible for you.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So ownership is on your.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Wishless, absolutely, but it has to be intelligent ownership to
your point.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean, the reason why I'm an owner today is
because of Magic Johnson. I grew up in an environment
where it was men of color were either street or
they were athletes, and I wanted to be an athlete.
Magic was the first one that I said, Oh wow,
here's a man of color who is wear little short
shorts in the court and then wears a pinch ripe
suit in the boardroom and is a Hall of Famer
in both. If he can do it, why not me
(08:28):
and that woke me up for that.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's beautiful because I think especially people of color and
all people. But speaking me individually, I've seen different things.
The reason my first email no longer active so I
can't get spammed was Nigerian Nightmare. Oh wait at yahoo
dot com because Christian Koye, running back for the Chiefs,
went by the Nigerian Nightmare. And my parents are Nigerian.
I'm Nigerian, and so I saw that and I said, okay,
(08:52):
I want to be that. And the same I believe
can be applied in business. The same has been applied
in TV. And everything I'm doing now is like wait,
once you see it, you can be it now. The
trick is you don't just have to see it in
one specific industry.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You didn't say I'm going to go on an NFL team. Hell,
you went to basketball, went to you know what I mean.
You went to all these different things. So seeing it
is so so so important.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah. So I want to go back to football for
a second if we can. And speaking of money, University
of Texas college football, we are. I think it's fair
to say Alex obsessed with college football. Help us understand this.
I mean you're watching this so closely, you're watching it
through your alma mater, especially Texas arch manning that whole scene,
(09:35):
how do you start to unpack the business that is
big time college football at this point.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I remember being in high school and my senior year
in high school, somebody that was in the NFL walked
up to me and he said, enjoy this last game,
because this is the last time you'll get to play
for fun once you leave here. It's a business. And
that was before NIL was even involved. Now I will
say this and I yell. Without the restriction of the
transfer portal in my mid I have ruined college football.
(10:02):
I do believe college football was always an unofficial business.
So make it official so the players can get paid.
I went back to University of Texas two years after
I graduated. I walked into the co op that's where
they sell different gear in jerseys, and I saw an
eighteen jersey by an eighty one jersey. What the hell
you see an eighteen by an eighty one jersey in
the co op? Oh Emanualatcho War number eighteen in sam
(10:22):
Watcho War number eighty one. They were selling our jerseys
without selling our jerseys I'm not getting no profit from it.
My brother and I took a picture by it. I
still have it to the stay in caase and you
need follow lawsuit. So like, I'm not getting no money
from that. And so I love now that players can
actually be compensated for their name, for their image, for
their likeness, because people don't realize I couldn't work in college,
(10:42):
because if you work in college, you could end up
getting sued in the event you get paid, and they
start to look into where you're getting paid more than
what you're working for. So now athletes aren't even allowed
to work period, whether you're working right or working unjustly.
So I like what the NIL is doing, however, and
I yell without restrictions in the transfer portal have completely
(11:04):
perverted college football.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Because essentially it's unlimited free agency and you're just getting
bit up and you see, I mean, you watch a game,
even the broadcasters, they're like, this guy started here, then
he went here, then he went here, then he I mean,
it's often two, three, four teams that a player has
played for. Is the solution to restrict the portal?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
How do you fix this? You restrict a portal, you
fix everything, Because once you restrict a portal, once you
go somewhere, you need to stay at that place at
least four a year. And if you transfer, there has
to be some restrictions. As you sit out a year,
you sit out two years. That's how it was when
I was in college. If you transfer within the conference,
you got to sit two years. If you transfer out
of conference, you got to sit a year. You ain't
going nowhere, a rod, you ain't going nowhere. JK. You
(11:47):
sit in your butt at Texas and you better learn
how to get on the field. And so that's what
I think needs to happen, because the dilemma right now
is I don't think you can serve both. I don't
think you can have a ton of fun in college
and make a lot of money. I've heard of players
that Texas is and the coaches has talked about the
players aren't having fun anymore. I said, I don't pity them.
They get in paper. I had more fun, but I
(12:08):
wouldn't getting broke off, you know what I mean. If
you are playing for money, it's very hard to have
fun because the second you start sucking, you know you
losing money. Hard to do both, I don't know that
you can serve money and serve fun.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So let's talk about having less fun. Jason just mentioned
private equity in the NFL and in sports broadly across
the globe, but specifically to the NCAA. You went to Texas.
Is it a matter of times a Blackstone and John
Gray owns the Texas football team, and how far away
from that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't know if that would ever happen because of
the boards of regents. I don't know if. I don't
know if that would ever happen that anybody would come
in and own one of those big time college programs.
Now own you could unofficially do it, you know what
I mean, if you're one of the biggest donors, if
you're one of the biggest investors. There were people at
(13:03):
Texas when I went there, and they were always at practice,
and I'm like, who the hell is this dude? And
then my friends wild text me, oh, yeah, yeah, this
dude oil and gas from way back when, like, Yo,
who the hell is it? Why are they on a bus?
Why they on a team plane? They not a coach,
you know what I mean? Them big old Texans walking
around with a two big, a little straw cowboy head,
and I'm like, who is this guy unofficially own sure
(13:25):
officially no.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Or maybe a minority. You see a Blackstone or KKR
owning twenty thirty percent, but the board still runs it.
But the finances what they do is bring it infrastructure,
back office sophistication because as you mentioned, as the business
keeps growing, are the universities as today are they currently
built to you know, understand what the money's coming in,
money's coming out, now you have payroll. It's an incredible
(13:49):
tres transition.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I think that could happen at the lower scale. That
wouldn't happen at Texas because at Texas is too many
elbows to Greece, you know what I mean. Like Texas,
we not let nobody just walk in here. And oh
not at Texas, you know what I mean? Not at Texas.
Not to mention we're Texas and those big time programs
(14:11):
like the You, they're so traditional. We don't like nothing change.
We wanted black jerseys when I was in college, and
the amount of pushback we got just to change our
jerseys was a hell no. This is the way we
do things, the way we're always going to do things.
So it's somewhere like Texas. I don't see it happening
at a smaller school, maybe even a private school. Yeah,
then I could see it happening.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And yet you do see this the money coming in
because of the TV contracts. So, knowing what you know
about media, what would you where do you think NFL
games should play like?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Network?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Network, streamers anything, streamers.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I think one big bank takes a little bank, you
know what I mean, and streamers got big, big bank.
And the reason I would say streamers is the games
in Netflix can be watched all over the world, you
know what I mean. If you've got a game on Fox,
you got a game on ABC, you had a game
on CBS. To some degree, that's limiting in Nigeria when
I go back during Christmas, I can't necessarily watch that.
(15:09):
I believe the streamers have more reach. I also believe
the streamers have easier barriers to entry. Oh I just
need the ad, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
What I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
There's just an easier barrier to entry. So I think
the streamers. The problem is the streamers do not currently
have the infrastructure. You all saw Netflix tried to do
a couple of live sporting events. Things are freezing. They
don't have the right host to do it, they don't
have the people to call the right games, they don't
have the right production quality. I mean they're outsourcing everything,
not realizing to put on a good product, you have
(15:39):
to have be a team. You have to be molded together,
you have to light light like we've talked about in sports,
like you have to have camaraderie. But I do think
streamers would be ideal just because it has the biggest reach.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So to that point, I mean, let's talk about as
we shift from sort of NFL and football to the
media world, talk about your transition about you know that
moment where you're like, Okay, I'm done. You know, as
so many athletes in the in football are. You're done
at a young age. How'd you decide what to do next?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So this might be my favorite part of the conversation.
Sitting across from one of the greatest at what he
ever did athletically, I was not humble enough to acknowledge
I was not. I look myself in the league, JK.
I look myself in the eyes in the league a Rod,
and I said, Okay, gotcho, You're not going to be
a pro bowler. You're not going to be a Hall
of Famer. You're not going to be an All pro.
You've played four years in the NFL, vested Penson annuity.
(16:35):
Leave while you still have your health. Now what I did?
The oldest text message in my phone to this date
twenty sixteen, August twenty third. It's the text from the
Buffalo Bills. And the Buffalo Bills were like, Hey, Amanuel,
we want to bring you in for a workout. Send
us your Social Security number and your license. I never responded.
Why did I save that text message? Because I wanted
to remind myself I walked away from the NFL. The
(16:56):
NFL didn't walk away from me. Whether that's true or not.
At least you have a text message of an NFL
team asking you to come in for a workout, of
which you rejected and you declined. Who knows if they
would have signed you, But psychologically that helped me move forward. Now,
after moving forward, where the hell are you gonna go?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
How old are you?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Twenty five at the time? Twenty five at the time,
I'd been cut five times by the age of twenty five,
So been cut five times in the NFL by the
age of twenty five is time to move on, Okay,
go back to Austin, Texas. That was home. I send
an email to every news director at every local station
in Austin. The news director is essentially the owner, if
you will, like, they make the decisions CBS, NBC, Fox,
(17:38):
ABC local stations at Austin. I say, hey, I would
love to come on your network following Texas football games
and do a show, you know, maybe Mondays with Manny.
We can call it Emmanuel Manny Mondays with Manny. One
news director bit Pam Vought local station in Austin, Texas,
Fox seven, So I start doing Mondays with Manny simultaneously.
I'm born and raised in Dallas, Texas, a huge Rangers fan,
(18:00):
a rodders who I vividly remember it. I'm born and
raised in Austin, Texas. The Cowboys were creating a Twitter show.
I get an email from the head of social for
the Dallas Cowboys. Hey, we're creating the show on Twitter.
Do you want to come do it? I'm like, well,
I need the money. It got the opportunity, Okay, cool.
So now we're doing Fox seven Austin. We're doing a
show for the Dallas Cowboys on Twitter. Longhorn Network is
off the University of Texas own subsidiary, so they were like, Yo, hey,
(18:22):
can you do Longhorn Network games? I said why not?
And I just did that over over over over over.
Finally I get recognized. After two years, I get a
call they want to promote me nationally to ESPN. So
now I'm going to ESPN on on on Mondays and
Tuesdays to do get up. Now. Now I've made it
to big time ESPN. ESPN all the execs to get
an email, Hey, we love this dude in the pink suit.
(18:45):
Who is he? I'm the dude in the pink suit.
The email came from a guy named Bob Iger.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Ah heard of him.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Iger sends an email to all the execs. I love
that guy in the pink suit. Happens to be me
of Disney And that is how my sports media career began. Wow.
I leave ESPN after two years because Fox recruitsed me, Hey,
we want you to essentially come host a show. And
I was like, I could stay at ESPN and be
a guy, or I could go to Fox and be
the guy. I'd rather be a big fish in a
(19:13):
small pond than a small fish in a big pond,
leave go to Fox to become the guy. But interestingly enough,
my sports career, actually sports TV career, paled in comparison
to my cultural TV career.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So we're going to get to that in a second,
but I want to go back just to the very
beginning of that, which was sort of what inspired you that.
It's like, I want to be on TV? Like what
was what was that? Was it something you had done,
something you had studied at high school and college? Like
what was it? That great question tracted that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
If I was good at math, I would have been
an accountant, you know what I mean. But I was
good at television, So I went on TV. Grew up
in my dad's a pastor, So I grew up going
to first service, second service, and that third service was
the longest. But I grew up going to all three
services in a church. And so I heard speaking for
a living. Yeah, and so I knew how to put
words together. And all television is is for those that
(20:05):
are actually good at it is just figuring out how
to put words together. Some analogies, you know what I mean,
similease like can you tell stories anecdotally? And so because
I grew up just capturing that through osmosis. I said,
let's go into TV and then a rod JK, it's
just sharpening your sword. Yeah, now, it's just sharpening your sword.
And so on television, I do two things. I watch
(20:26):
Oprah Winfrey and I watch battle Rap. There's those two things,
Oprah and battle Rap. Oprah teaches me how to be
an interviewer. Battle Rap teaches me how to present. And
so that was kind of like my hidden secrets to
the sauce of television.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
So one of the things that I always talk to
young kids about, and even as I go to universities,
people always talk about math and I have to be
great at math. And I actually sayly, one of the
best things you can do in business is be a
great communicator. So you have to be able to articulate.
So you're halfway home, but you talked about you specifically.
Your father was a preacher. Can you tell me specific
things that you learned about him about what made him
(21:13):
such a gifted speaker? And are you more like him
or you more like mom?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Or you're a hybrid one thousand percent like that. Dad
came from Nigeria to America with nothing in the late
nineteen seventies, he was working at Taco Bell and was
working at a janitor. And then he got his undergrad degree,
and then he got his doctorate degree after getting his
master's degree. So he has his own private practice in psychology.
And so that started his own private practice in Dallas.
(21:36):
And then remember he's a black man with an accent
that's about five nine talking like this now, So he's
a black man with an accent in the late eighties
with a doctorate degree, you know what I mean. And
so then in Dallas, in Dallas, Texas. And so really
what I learned from Dad was a couple of things. One,
a work ethic that is unparalleled. Two is how can
(22:00):
you communicate in a manner that makes someone able to understand.
I think one of our biggest problems in society is
we have too many people that are receiver oriented as
opposed to speaker oriented. Speaker oriented, it's my job to
make sure a Rod and Jason know what I'm saying.
Receiver oriented, Hey, we're putting the onus on them to
understand what the speaker's saying. I'm a speaker oriented person
(22:20):
at all times, so it is my job to make
sure I dumb something down as simple as possible to
make sure the receiver can hear what I'm saying. And
so that's what I try to do as a communicator.
It's like, okay, what's my avenue in and so like
I have to figure out and I feel like we
are all charged to figure out what's the best way
to speak to make sure the receiver can understand. And
(22:40):
that's also what I learned from watching Pops in a poolpit.
You know what I mean, depending upon the sermon, I'm
going to change my energy to make sure you can
receive it. If I'm preaching about tithing, might be a
little bit more gentle. If I'm preaching about, you know,
changing your life radically, I might be a little more passionate.
So learning how to change the way you speak can
communicate so people can receive.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And so how does that translate to talking about sports?
Because I will say I've been watching you for years
and you know you clearly have a different approach. I mean,
it is the thing that Bob Iker saw with the
guy in the pink suit. You know, you you pop differently,
not just because of the suit, but because your presentation.
The way that you present is very it's the pulpit.
(23:27):
How do you translate that to sports and how do
you translate it specifically to speakeasy, which is your new show.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh Man, speak easy a differentity, So I'll get to that. Yeah,
translating it into sports man, it's sports is almost like
catching the wind. Which way do you need to speak
to make sure like you're hitting people where you need
to hit him. Everybody says we don't like debate, We
don't like debate. That's a lie. Debate rates. Yeah, so
you do like debate. Now, you might not like the
search and debater, but you like debate because debate rates you. Also,
(23:56):
in sport, you have to learn how to be like
more explosive. You have to learn how to be a
little bit more inflammatory. But on social media, in sport,
everybody thinks they know everything. You can find somebody that
thinks they know more about baseball than a rod on
social media right now, yes, you know what I mean,
like at EA two two nine nine underscore like they
right now, they think they know more about baseball than this, right.
(24:21):
So on social media, I don't try to teach on
social media. I try to say, hey, here's what I found.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
What are you interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
If I try to say this is what they're doing,
they'll be like, well, no, that's not what they're doing.
Because my high school coach told nah, social media is different.
Social media is like, hey, I'm going to show you
all this and what do y'all think? And that's how
you try to manipulate that algorithm. Also realizing though, Instagram,
X and TikTok are also all different, so you can't
(24:51):
just think you can communicate, even in sports, in one,
one size fit soul way. The only way is being
true to you and figuring out how do you manipulate
what's true to you into that platform or that network
or that device.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And so tell us about speakeasy. How does this come about?
I mean the origin story. We know enough to be
dangerous about it. That your your giggins at FS one. Yeah,
twenty four hours later, bro.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I haven't shared the details of this story, but it's
a safe space, okay, So let's buckle up, let's do it.
I am in Paris on vacation. I got a call
from my agent, and my agent says, hey, Fox is
canceling all LA based sports shows, daily shows. I'm like, wait,
what the hell? Yeah, Fox is canceling all of them.
(25:42):
So now I'm shocked. I'm literally like in Paris chillin'.
While in Paris, two interesting things happened. One person came
up to me because I used to be on a
show called Speak for Yourself. They said, yoah, Joe, I
love you on Speak for Yourself. I was like, I
haven't done that show in years. I was currently a
ron on a show called The Facility. Another person came
up for me, yo, acho, I love you on the Faculty.
(26:03):
I'm like, it's the So that taught me two things
after realizing my show had been canceled. Hey, Ocho, if
you create another show, leverage the four years of IP
you built into Speak for Yourself. So if you're gonna
create another show, put speak into the title.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Now, I looked at the market of sports television. I said,
where are the vacancies in the sports TV market. The
vacancy's at night. I live in California. Games primetime games
end at eight o'clock. Yo, watch, you can go live
at night.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
If you're gonna do a show at night and you're
gonna put speak in the title, what the hell do
you call it? Speak? Easy sophisticated sports talk. Okay, great, well,
now how are you gonna do it?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
By the way, this is all happening in like real time.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I like, no time to mourn, no time to cry.
It's time to get to work. And so okay, where's
the vacancy. It's at night? Show title speakeasy. Okay, Now
how are you gonna do it? Acho? Bill? The show
so nice that you can sell it to network immediately.
Don't do nothing on your laptop with some little logo
behind you the Emmanuelaco Show, and you're doing it, you
know from your mom's basement. No, build a state of
(27:12):
the art studio that a Netflix, a Peacock, a Paramount
plus exec can look at and say, yo, we can
light green light that right now, Because now I can
go to network and say, don't worry about hair, don't
worry about makeup, don't worry about wardrobe, don't worry about
studio costs, don't worry about production costs, don't even worry
about talent costs. I got all of that. I have
(27:33):
proof of concept. You give me a boatload of money,
I'll give you a show. The dilemma is from when
the show got canceled. On July fourteenth until season starting
September fourth, a rod, I had fifty four days. I
got fifty four days to think of a name, find
a studio, built out a studio, find talent, higher talent,
Negotiate with talent. Relocate some talent because they lived in
(27:55):
New York. Find a team, find a production team, buy
all the right cameras, and then buy all the right
furniture to furnish the studio. You got fifty four days
cause you're launching week one because it's the Cowboys versus
Eagles on Thursday night, September fourth, go and I looked
at it like a game. What do I mean by that?
(28:15):
I looked at it and I said, Okay, if Fox
is going to give you money to leave, but it's
not going to be the same money you're going to
make for the year, Ali Dacho, can you make as
much money as you were making in your one year
at Fox by taking this money and taking these social
media feeds? Because that was part of it. Like when
I walked away from Fox, I walked away with the
social media feeds from my show, which means I walked
(28:36):
away with two point six million YouTube subscribers one point
four million Facebook subscribers, seven hundred and twenty thousand Instagram subscribers,
five hundred thousand Twitter subscribers, and four hundred thousand TikTok subscribers.
That's real currency. People don't realize, like, that's currency. So
can you take those followers? And can you take this money?
And can you build something that will make you money?
(28:58):
How did you get to hang under that negotiations like
can you take this followers, this money and can you
build something? Bro? Within fourteen days of starting the show,
I had a seven figure offer.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's back up. That's a beautiful story, but I really
want to get into the mental side of this. Yeah, okay,
so you said fifty four days walkers through. Now you're
in day twenty four. Is it more excitement, anxiety, nervous?
Are you looking for investors? Are you waking up in
the matter of that night? I go speak easy? Is
that the right name of the wrong name?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Great question?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I like good questions. I was never excited never. I
was only ever scared and I was only ever anxious.
But when you're scared, just do it anyway. I was
never excited, really never never Why I was scared? One?
What if the idea is not good. Two what if
it doesn't work? Three you're hemorrhaging money until you're not
(29:55):
Four what if you can't get all these contracts done? Five?
What if you can't start on time? Six what if
people hate it? Only ever scared? How in the world
did I kind of move forward? Day twenty four. I
had a couple issues. I need to find somewhere to
build a studio out, and then you have to allot
like seven days for ish to go wrong. Yeah, you
(30:16):
know what I mean. That's why I love being able
to share my story because I tell you all the time,
I'm not that talented. So the people that are watching
you send across from a cat whose parents came to
America with nothing and is just figuring it out. I'm
not that talented. I just work really hard and I'm resourceful.
So Day twenty four, I'm coming up with backup plans
in case my first plans go completely awry. That's Day
(30:37):
twenty four. I laid things out a ride. I said, okay, Ocho,
let's work backwards. If you want to launch by September fourth,
then you need to have the studio be done being
built out by the last week. In August so that
you can rehearse the last week in August, which means
you need to start construction three weeks before the last
week in August, which means you need to know your
talent four weeks before that. So I'm starting to work backwards.
(31:00):
So now that you work backwards, who's going to be
your general contractor, who's going to be your designer? Where
you're going to get the furniture, and then acho you
cannot afford to sleep. You just can't afford to sleep
because you don't have time to sleep. So if every
it's something fails, it stops with you. And I had
to do little stuff like delete all the Facebook posts
on the previous account that I was taking over thirty
thousand Facebook posts. I'm enter tab, enter down, enter enter tab,
(31:24):
enter down, enter enter tab, enter down, enter entertab. I
gotta do all that. Yeah, you feel me. So, not
only do I have to ideate all of this show
and then negotiate all of this show, of which I
did all by myself. Mind you, like there's no agent,
just me and chat GPT, so of which I did
all by myself. You also have to do the mundane
work like deleting social media posts from an account. Your
(31:44):
take over.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
What about talent? How do you identify that? Woo?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
That's the most fun part. Identifying talent is how you win.
This is how you win in sports, It's how you
win in anything. Identifying talent is how you win getting
the right roster. There was a kid that came up
to me. His name was Kier and he came up
to me in twenty twenty at a track meet in
New York. Yo Ocho, big fan of yours. Man, I
do some stuff on social media, bro, you know what
I mean? Like, just a big fan of yours. I
(32:08):
grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Over the last two years, I saw a couple of
his videos going viral. I wake up JK, I wake
up a roight. After dooling the show, I was like,
what was that kid's name again? I searched one of
the videos. I didn't even remember his name. I just searched,
like viral video of this athlete. Knowing he had done
the viral video. I hit him up, Hey, yo, I'm
starting something. Let's hop on a zoom. At first, He's like, man,
I'm working for this company, working for that company. I
(32:32):
can't do it. I said, what's your price? Everybody got
a price. And I'm also like, if you nail the
show right, Acho, the money will come. Forget the money.
If you get the talent right, the money will come.
So I go and I get him and he ends
up being kind of like the sidekick co host. And
then Lashan McCoy Philadelphia, a guy behind the bar. He's
a guy behind the bar. Then Lashawn McCoy Eagles Hall
(32:53):
of Famer. We've worked together the last five years. We
were teammates back in twenty twelve. So I was like, Okay,
you get Shady because Shady's a big sport name. Acho,
you're the brainsman.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
He's a vis A vibe.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
He's the sports name. Acho, you're the talent. The Sidekicks
speaks to the younger generation. There are a lot of
shows on social media. We're a show for social media,
and there's a huge difference, a gigantic difference. Tell us
any show can be on social media, but not any
show can be made for social media. And so I
got the care Bear Karen Dude because he's young, nine
(33:25):
hundred thousand. On TikTok, he speaks to that demographic. He's
been doing stuff on social media. I gotta dude named
Social Tree. I keep him on camera. So Social Tray,
his name's Trey. He just runs social Yeah called him
Social Trade. He sits on his laptop.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
He's literally in the corner.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
He's in the corner. Hey, Rod, He's in the corner
on his laptop. He's chatting with people during the show.
If there's ever a poll, I'll be like, hey, social Tray,
drop a poll. Is a Rod, the greatest ranger of
all time. Drop the color dropping in right now, right now,
right now. And then he'll see the comics like, Ocho,
I gotta interrupt you. I gotta interrupt you. The poll
results are in da da da dah, and he'll interrupt me. Yo, Ocho.
(33:59):
We got a super chat. Superchats if somebody pays for
their comment to be seen on YouTube. So he is
literally on the show specifically to be the social media's
voice on the show. So I didn't make a show
on social media. I made a show for social media
because if you went on social media, network will come So.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Wait, wait, so let me get this straight. So you
have fans that will log in to watch your show.
They can pay like five ten bucks to ask a question.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
They can pay up to it. Yesterday we got one
hundred dollars superchat Wow. And all it does is it
puts their It puts their comment whatever they say at
the top of the YouTube chat. There's a whole YouTube
discourse going down, so it puts their comment at the
top of the chat, and they just pay for their
comment to be seen. I have a guy specifically dedicated
to interacting with those people. Then I have a camera
specifically dedicated to him. Yeah, during the show, first two
(34:45):
weeks of the show, he wasn't on camera a rod.
I'm just but I kept yelling off camera, hey yo,
can you make a poll? And I was like, wait
a second, Acho just put them on camera.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
So, in terms of creating it for social how do
you how do you keep it looking around the corner?
You've talked about that a lot. So what are you
seeing now that you know you want to do and
just haven't been able to do yet.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
A lot of things. But remember the very first thing
we started this conversation with was do not overextend right now?
Manuelacho's financing everything. I bought the cameras, I bought the
set design, Like, I put in probably three hundred thousand
dollars into everything, all things considered. And mind you, I'm
paying all talent, so I'm sole owner of it, paying
talent salaries. But what I realized was this, if you
(35:32):
look at ESPN and Fox, the two primary sports shows
daily sports, right now, over fifty percent of their content
from seven am to three pm is shows that are
produced that are licensed back to network. That's not the future,
it's the present. It's not like in some distance. It's
happening right now. Fifty percent of the content. So with
(35:54):
that being said, that's the present. So I said, wait
a second, Acho, just build it. They're all ready coming.
Not they will come. Furthermore, where's the market going? Oh, Netflix,
you want to get more into live sports? Oh you
ain't got a sports show. I can save you a
headache and a whole bunch of money. I'll just do
it for you. And then rather than going to Netflix
with different note cards and hey look at my slide presentation.
(36:17):
Hey here's a show I want to sell you on.
So I'm gonna sit here and this is going to
person's gonna be here. I know you have to build
it's gonna cost you a couple hundred thous No, No,
it's done, done, it's built, it's done, Like just cut
me to check it's done. And so seeing around corners
looks like where's the market going? Yeah, what's the market need?
Anticipate those needs?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
What is exactly the business model? And is the business
model one that you're hoping to tread water? Unto the
big fish comes and you can land in Netflix or
on Amazon? And at what point are you thinking about
raising capital? If ever?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Great question, I've was offered capital, I said, no, reason
being I'm sitting on a gold mine. Hell nah, like
y'all stay over here. I don't need the capital because
I don't want to have to dilute what I got going.
Phenomenal question on are you going to try to water?
There's several different business problems. When you start a show
on social number one, you can exist and make a
(37:10):
boatload of money off your sponsors. Right So, like right now,
I landed the seven figure deal that will essentially cover
ninety percent of my cost. Grace of God, I landed
it within two weeks of starting the show.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's a sponsorship type, sponsorship type deal, like that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
There's YouTube ad revenue, those sponsorship deals, those are your
primary ways to make your money, all while simultaneously a
rod the reason you built the show so nice, Acho,
remember land the streamer. I didn't build the show to
exclusively stay on social. If I did that, I could
just got my laptop done it super cheap. Instead, I
built a studio. I built like a real state of
(37:46):
the art type studio so that a streamer can go, oh,
that's nice, greenlit. Now that I know my costs, if
my costs are X, if I can make why then
your money is that that difference between that HY and
that X. Whereas when I'm just working for Fox, working
for a network, this is your salary. But bro, now
that I'm an owner, it's so interesting because I'm like, okay, wait, atcho,
(38:06):
this is your expenses for the year. So now this
is the number to break you even and anything above
that you're making money. Figure out how to go make money?
And now you eat what you kill? And ain't nothing
better in life than living with a eat what you
kill model. If you know how to go kill, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
And so how does that feel to you at this point?
I mean, it's it feels like you said you weren't excited.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Feels But the reason I'm excited now is oftentimes people
don't get to see the light at the end of
the tunnel. You just got to walk through the tunnel
in the dark and trust you're going to see light.
I've gotten to see light at the end of the
tunnel quickly, incredibly quickly. That's why I'm excited. Otherwise it
(38:47):
would just be a long, arduous journey. But I'll say
this just for those listening, the three things I learned.
If you want to start like a million dollar business,
find a billion dollar corporation sports The second thing I
learned was is there a vacancy of part of that corporation?
Oh nighttime sports show? And then the third thing are
(39:10):
you do you have an inherent access point? Do you
have an inherent advantage? My advantage I was starting with
five point three million subscribers across all channels. So you
want to make a million find the billion? Then is
there competition in that million of the billion that you're
finding if there's not exists there? And then lastly, do
you have an inherent advantage? If you can check all
three of those boxes, I suggest it's not that complicated,
(39:34):
it's just difficult.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, so three names, Pat McAfee, Steven A Smith, Bill Simmons,
are any of those three kind of the north of
what you're trying to build?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
If not who, I'd probably say an amalgamation of all three. Yeah,
here's why. And I don't use that as a cop out.
I was reading a book called The Hidden Habits of
Genius and the Hidden Habits of Genius just looked at
different geniuses suggested throughout the history of mankind, and genius
is synthesi information. Can you find the invisible connective tissue
(40:03):
between different things. The reason I did speakeasy speakeasy instead
of the Emmanuelacco Show, the Pat McAfee show, I don't
always have to host it. Ah, So you can sell
speakeasy one day, find to really get host, slot them
in the chair. Then I can go do speakeasy sophisticated
political talk. I ain't got to host it. You've already
built the model. Then I can go speakeasy sophisticated pop
(40:25):
culture talk hosted for a year, get out the chair.
If you name the show after you, you got to
be the show. So the reason I didn't name the
show after me was because oh I don't always want
to be the show. That's why I said an amalgamation
of all of them, you know what I mean. McAfee
is brilliant. I think he's one of the first who
have ever done it. But McAfee's the McAfee show. He
can never stop the working. He is the brand. The
(40:48):
social media channels of his show are his. He's the brand.
I did that with Uncomfortable Conversations. I didn't want to
do that again, and so whereas Simmons, he isn't necessarily
the brand. Here the brand the ringer exactly right. So
that was kind of my thought process.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
So I'm glad you mentioned uncomfortable conversations because it's really,
I have to say, one of the first times I
really encountered you. Uncomfortable with conversations with a black man.
I feel like took you to an whole other level,
like a different universe, a different galaxy. So distill it
down for us if you can, like what happened.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Uncomfortable conversations got me into the matrix. Yeah, it got
me into the matrix, changed my life. Five days after
George Floyd gets murdered, I start a show I'm in Austin, Texas,
and I rent a studio space, and I say, hey, Emmanuel,
you should just go talk and answer a lot of
questions in society right now that people are asking, Hey,
why are black people rioting? Why can black people say
(41:48):
the N word but white people can't? What is going
on societally? And I was like, Okay, Emmanuel, you should
do this. I was going to do it with the
sweet white friend of mine, but at the last second,
my white friend got cold feet, so I said, Emmanuel,
you got to do it yourself first. It was going
to be questions white people have. That was going to
be the name of the show. Terrible grame. But if
she's driving down, she's like, yo, Emanuel, it's not just
white people have questions. Why don't you change the title
(42:08):
maybe uncomfortable conversations? Because I was like, uncomfortable conversations, it
just doesn't stick. I walked by a mirror. I looked
to the right. I walked back by the mirror. I
looked to the last you're a black man, uncomfortable conversations
with a black man, So we do that now. I
don't have anybody to shoot it. I don't have a
beautiful video team that y'all can see that's behind all
these cameras. But I knew somebody that was a wedding videographer.
(42:29):
Wedding videographer said hey, yo, bro, can you come shoot
this thing. I go to this all white studio space.
I shoot this episode. Within five days of a twenty
five million views, now direct messages from the likes of
Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Aniston, everybody in the mom has now
hit me up. I don't know what to do. I
got a call from a no call a ID number.
I pick it up. O Choe McConaughey speaking. I want
(42:52):
to have a conversation. So McConaughey like Matthew McConaughey. He's like,
I want to have a conversation. I was like, all right,
let's do it in three four days. He says about tomorrow.
I was like, ah, Now, the thing about it a rod.
I didn't want to follow up, because how the hell
do you follow up twenty five million views? You don't.
But mccanae says he wants to do it tomorrow. We
do it tomorrow. Me and McConaughey, Matthew McConaughey. We sit
(43:12):
down and do the next episode. I get a call
five days later from another no call already number. Hi
Emmanuel Oprah Winfrey speaking. I'm like Oprah, Like Oprah, Oprah,
Oprah Oprah. She said, Emmanuel, do you have time to FaceTime?
Later today, I said, do I have time? You have time?
We hop on FaceTime. She's sitting in her kitchen. She
asked me one question, She says, Emmanuel, what is your intention?
(43:35):
I said, Oprah, my intention is to change the world.
I truly believe I can. I'm currently working on writing
a book. She said books. I love books. So Oprah
and I partner together to write un Comfortable Conversations with a
Black Man, number three on the bestseller list, Uncomfortable Conversations
with a Black Boy. I've since written in Comfortable Conversations
with the June number three on the bestsellers list. I'm
the only person not named Oprah to have more than
one book under the Oprah imprint. So I wrote my
books under the Oprah imprint. After that boom, life changes.
(43:59):
I end up hosting the I end up moving into
corporate America. I've spoken for every corporation. Michael Jordan calls
me and they fly me to Seaport, New York, and
I speak to everybody at Jordan Brand. Jordan included just
about all of these different things, and so it was
one of those things. The reason I entered into the
matrix was because uncomfortable conversations was what put me into
(44:22):
society in a manner that's I couldn't imagine change my life,
change my life.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
What is it like when you pick up the phone
and it's Oprah on the other I mean, yeah, man,
what is that?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
You know what? Bro None of those moments moved me
because I was in such a period of life where
I was like, Acho Steward it well. I would just
walk down Beverly Hills because I lived in La then
at the time I moved from Austin, and I'll say,
Ocho Stewart, it well, Stewart, it well, like be a
good steward of it, Like this is not about you,
(44:59):
be a good steward of it. So when Oprah called
it was cool, mcconae called it was cool. Justin Bieber
came up to me, it was cool, But it was
just Acho Stewart it well, like, do not miss the mission,
do not miss the moment like you're a man on
a mission. You're a man who meant a moment steward it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well, so that's got to be your dad, right probably?
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And my faith, Yeah, and my faith. So it's all
been cool, it's all been special. We've done a lot
of great things. I mean, how the heck we started TV?
We got two emmys, you know what I mean? But
that's why I'm like, this is above me. This is
if you work very hard at what you do, and
if you work very smart at what you do, and
if you're incredibly resourceful with what you do, you will
(45:41):
find success at what you do.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
All right, So this is where we do rapid fire.
Ten questions will bounce it back and forth. You're ready,
Let's go, all right. What's one word to describe your
deal making style?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Strategic?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
What's more important to you? Gut or data?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's a good question. Data.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Let's say you magic.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
What's the best piece of advice you received on deal
making or business?
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Bet on brains?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Huh, that's a good freaking question. You can't do it.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
What's a deal that you wish you had done.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I don't want to live and regret, so I'm gonna
say none. But I have the opportunity to host The
Bachelor in perpetuity, and I'm always curious what that would
have looked like and i'd done it.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Interesting. Do you have a dream guest on uncomfortable conversations?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Who isn't?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
No, My dream guest is whoever meets the moment in time,
So there's no, there's no dream guest.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're gonna even watch one sport for the rest of
your life?
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Oh here's the thing, a rod you got to qualify
Game seven, Game seven or super the Olympics. You know
what I mean? If I'm only watching one sport football,
But if you're telling me like the Olympics, I take
the Olympics, which sport and the track? Okay, done, I'm
watching track and field. I'm watching the four black for
me to relay.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
What team do you want to see win a championship
more than any?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
The San Francisco forty nine ers.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
What's your advice for someone who wants a career.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Just like yours, don't have a career like yours?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
There you go? All right?
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Eman?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Well at thank you so much. This was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Thank you, Thank you, Kell. This is great.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
The show was produced by Anamazarakis, Stacey Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Our booker is Paige Keffer. David E. Ravella is our
(47:56):
managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason ke Kelly, Amy Keen,
Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Regina Delia, Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenig.
Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts Special thanks to
Rachel Carnevale, Elena Los Angeles and Nick Silva. Joshua Deveaux
(48:18):
is our director of photography. Rubob Shakir is our creative director.
Art direction is from Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Don Downie,
Genevieve Aegar and Emmanuel Moran. Our gaffer is Kelly Porterfield,
and our grip is Justin Birch. Alex Diacanis is our
video editor and Will Connolly is our assistant editor. You
(48:41):
can listen to the deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into
the video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV.
Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the deal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez, and coming up Emmanuel Acho.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
He played in the NFL. He knows a lot about
the business of big football. He is a media personality.
He's got a new show called Speakeasy. We're going to
get into all of it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He is the perfect guest. I'm so excited Jason when
we came over with the show a couple of years ago.
He is the epitome of what we were thinking about
sports media culture. He speaks at a very high level.
He's also going to tell us why the NFL is
king and getting bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
He brings a lot of energy, So get ready. Coming up,
Emmanuel Acho. We're here in Los Angeles with Emmanuel Acho,
someone Alex who, when we think about this show, is
(01:01):
just right there, right at this intersection that we love
of business, sports and culture, in part because of the NFL.
So first of all, welcome, thank you. We're so happy
to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Glad to be here. Yeah, so great to have you
in the show. My first question right off the top
has to be the NFL. Now I'm coming from the
lens of I'm right in the midst of my October
media with Fox and doing my coverage for the playoffs
and World Series and everything the NFL does. It works
big now. I remember in two thousand and four when
(01:32):
we play the Red Sox, we were getting twenty five thirty
thirty five million people watching. Today is a fraction of that.
The NFL keeps getting bigger, so you're like ten x
bigger than us. What is the secret sauce of the
NFL magic? What is it?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I think the biggest thing is the NFL never overextended.
The NFL made sure like as the viewers grew, it
extended the games in parallel to the viewers growing. I
think the NFL, probably better than any other sports industry,
has matched demand with supply. Is you could suggest the MLB,
You could suggest the NBA. So much supply but not
(02:05):
necessarily that much demand. Like eighty two NBA games, we
don't watch all of them anymore. Baseball now we obviously
care in October. But the dilemma is, there's so much
supply it doesn't directly correlate to the demand. Where's the
NFL bro when you only have sixteen of them, and
now there's seventeen of them as of the last four years.
Everyone matters, and I think what's missed and not talked
(02:27):
about enough is fans are a reflection of the players.
If the players care, the fans care. If the players
don't care, the fans don't care. In the NFL, all
of the players care about every single game, in part
because our contracts aren't guaranteed. In secondary part, there's only
so many games. The fan is simply a mirror, and
whatever the player does, the fan reflects back onto the player.
(02:50):
And that's I would suggest, the secret sauce of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
To that point about scarcity, the fascinating that the NFL is.
It still finds all these ways to be in our
lives all the time. So you're right, You're totally right.
Seventeen games and yet the NFL draft, the NFL combat
like it has become like all this psych yeah, really
(03:14):
really rich content. So how are they doing that? Right?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
The NFL has done a great job making everything feel big.
The NFL draft. It used to be in what Radio
City Music Hall that felt big, and then when the
deal with Radio City Music Hall fell apart, they were like,
you know what, we're going to make it a spectacle.
We're going to move from one city to another, and
they've done a great job of not going to cities
(03:37):
with a lot of distractions, make them feel iconic. Super Bowl,
you're gonna have a megastar celebrity performing there. We joke
half the time that it's a Beyonce concert at a
football game, right, you know what I mean? Like, I
think the NFL does such a good job making it
feel big. But then again, when you have less events,
you can make them all feel big. Yeah, you can't
(03:58):
make every baseball game feel big. It's too many of them.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
That's such an interesting point about the I mean the
halftime show. It's like, you know, bad Bunny being announced
to perform, like dominated the news cycle for like.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Three greats And think about for a second last year's
Super Bowl. It leveraged a cultural beef that had nothing
to do with the sport of football. Right, It had
nothing to do Kendrick exactly right. Like, it leveraged a
completely different entity than the actual game itself, which we
don't see that often enough in other sports.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, I'll give you the best one. That's been the
biggest number we've done over the last fifty years, it's
been Will Series nine, Game two. Right before the game,
here comes Alisha Keys and jay z Empire state of mind.
The song was very much synonymous with our season and
that team. But it was a magical moment and we've
never done it again since last year with I think
it was a was it a fajoe and.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yes, But that's a really good point. I think if
you can find a way to leverage another industry or
to somebody else's success, that I think is how you
can create more success. There's not enough like discussion outside
of the games, the sports shows that are going on
daily that are driving people because of storylines. Caitlin Clark,
a Derreese. You have heroes, you have villains. You have
(05:16):
villains to some you have heroes to others. That drives viewership.
Caitlyn's a great basketball player. It's not that alone. It's
the storylines. And I think in baseball last year it
was popping because we had or we had Yankees, Dodgers.
If you have storylines, you had iconic franchises, iconic brands,
you had show Hey, you had Judge. You have storylines.
I don't think we have that enough in baseball, and
(05:39):
I don't think we have that enough in basketball either,
because everybody's also all buddy buddy in basketball.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, before we move in from the NFL, I have
to ask you about sort of one of the mega
sort of deal points, which is new money coming in
private equity ownership. You know, this is Bloomberg, after all,
we look so much at that devaluation sort of just
I mean, climbing and climbing. What do you make of
money coming in as a former player, as someone who
(06:06):
watches this game so closely, what's the net effect that
it's having.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'm looking at everything from a player standpoint first and foremost,
and so one of the contracts are going crazy, Yeah,
you know what I mean. Like back in the day
when I was leaving the NFL in twenty fifteen, highest
paid players were probably making twenty five twenty six million
dollars a year. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the forty nine
ers and was the highest paid quarterback I believe at
twenty eight million dollars a year. Now Dak Prescott's making
(06:30):
sixty million dollars a year, you.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So the very first thing I'd take ten that is
is just the number in the contracts. The second thing
is eventually there's going to be a rub, and there's
going to be a rub because at the point in
time you have that new CBA and players are going
to start to look around and say, hold on a second, now,
all these billions of dollars in TV revenue, I want mine.
And so that's the second thing. Always looking from a
(06:54):
player's perspective at the rub. But I think lastly, it's
cool to see the NFL continuing to grow at such
an exptal rate, and now I just want to see, like,
how can we get more diversity and ownership.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And what do you suggest for that?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The first thing is I love how people are pulling together.
It's no longer just like one family and y'all are
exclusively owning it. I love how it's like, hey, no,
we're going to bring in this office and this office
might have a couple different names on it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, one of my great mentors is Jerry Reinsdorf.
The days of him buying the Bulls for sixteen million
and the White Sex for nineteen are long gone. I mean,
these numbers are getting so big that you need groups
to come.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You need groups. And I also think now athletes can
know it's possible. You know what I mean what you've
done with Minnesota. Now athletes can know it's possible. Before
you can ever be something, you got to see something
you feel. Me like, thinking about owning a team's what how?
But now that we've seen different athletes do it, even
you know, I'm trying to do different things by owning
different with WNBA teams and getting in different groups to
(07:52):
own WNBA teams because I'm like, now that I've seen
different individuals do it, all right, Acha, like it's possible,
go make it possible for you.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So ownership is on your.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Wishless, absolutely, but it has to be intelligent ownership to
your point.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean, the reason why I'm an owner today is
because of Magic Johnson. I grew up in an environment
where it was men of color were either street or
they were athletes, and I wanted to be an athlete.
Magic was the first one that I said, Oh wow,
here's a man of color who is wear little short
shorts in the court and then wears a pinch ripe
suit in the boardroom and is a Hall of Famer
in both. If he can do it, why not me
(08:28):
and that woke me up for that.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's beautiful because I think especially people of color and
all people. But speaking me individually, I've seen different things.
The reason my first email no longer active so I
can't get spammed was Nigerian Nightmare. Oh wait at yahoo
dot com because Christian Koye, running back for the Chiefs,
went by the Nigerian Nightmare. And my parents are Nigerian.
I'm Nigerian, and so I saw that and I said, okay,
(08:52):
I want to be that. And the same I believe
can be applied in business. The same has been applied
in TV. And everything I'm doing now is like wait,
once you see it, you can be it now. The
trick is you don't just have to see it in
one specific industry.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You didn't say I'm going to go on an NFL team. Hell,
you went to basketball, went to you know what I mean.
You went to all these different things. So seeing it
is so so so important.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah. So I want to go back to football for
a second if we can. And speaking of money, University
of Texas college football, we are. I think it's fair
to say Alex obsessed with college football. Help us understand this.
I mean you're watching this so closely, you're watching it
through your alma mater, especially Texas arch manning that whole scene,
(09:35):
how do you start to unpack the business that is
big time college football at this point.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I remember being in high school and my senior year
in high school, somebody that was in the NFL walked
up to me and he said, enjoy this last game,
because this is the last time you'll get to play
for fun once you leave here. It's a business. And
that was before NIL was even involved. Now I will
say this and I yell. Without the restriction of the
transfer portal in my mid I have ruined college football.
(10:02):
I do believe college football was always an unofficial business.
So make it official so the players can get paid.
I went back to University of Texas two years after
I graduated. I walked into the co op that's where
they sell different gear in jerseys, and I saw an
eighteen jersey by an eighty one jersey. What the hell
you see an eighteen by an eighty one jersey in
the co op? Oh Emanualatcho War number eighteen in sam
(10:22):
Watcho War number eighty one. They were selling our jerseys
without selling our jerseys I'm not getting no profit from it.
My brother and I took a picture by it. I
still have it to the stay in caase and you
need follow lawsuit. So like, I'm not getting no money
from that. And so I love now that players can
actually be compensated for their name, for their image, for
their likeness, because people don't realize I couldn't work in college,
(10:42):
because if you work in college, you could end up
getting sued in the event you get paid, and they
start to look into where you're getting paid more than
what you're working for. So now athletes aren't even allowed
to work period, whether you're working right or working unjustly.
So I like what the NIL is doing, however, and
I yell without restrictions in the transfer portal have completely
(11:04):
perverted college football.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Because essentially it's unlimited free agency and you're just getting
bit up and you see, I mean, you watch a game,
even the broadcasters, they're like, this guy started here, then
he went here, then he went here, then he I mean,
it's often two, three, four teams that a player has
played for. Is the solution to restrict the portal?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
How do you fix this? You restrict a portal, you
fix everything, Because once you restrict a portal, once you
go somewhere, you need to stay at that place at
least four a year. And if you transfer, there has
to be some restrictions. As you sit out a year,
you sit out two years. That's how it was when
I was in college. If you transfer within the conference,
you got to sit two years. If you transfer out
of conference, you got to sit a year. You ain't
going nowhere, a rod, you ain't going nowhere. JK. You
(11:47):
sit in your butt at Texas and you better learn
how to get on the field. And so that's what
I think needs to happen, because the dilemma right now
is I don't think you can serve both. I don't
think you can have a ton of fun in college
and make a lot of money. I've heard of players
that Texas is and the coaches has talked about the
players aren't having fun anymore. I said, I don't pity them.
They get in paper. I had more fun, but I
(12:08):
wouldn't getting broke off, you know what I mean. If
you are playing for money, it's very hard to have
fun because the second you start sucking, you know you
losing money. Hard to do both, I don't know that
you can serve money and serve fun.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So let's talk about having less fun. Jason just mentioned
private equity in the NFL and in sports broadly across
the globe, but specifically to the NCAA. You went to Texas.
Is it a matter of times a Blackstone and John
Gray owns the Texas football team, and how far away
from that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't know if that would ever happen because of
the boards of regents. I don't know if. I don't
know if that would ever happen that anybody would come
in and own one of those big time college programs.
Now own you could unofficially do it, you know what
I mean, if you're one of the biggest donors, if
you're one of the biggest investors. There were people at
(13:03):
Texas when I went there, and they were always at practice,
and I'm like, who the hell is this dude? And
then my friends wild text me, oh, yeah, yeah, this
dude oil and gas from way back when, like, Yo,
who the hell is it? Why are they on a bus?
Why they on a team plane? They not a coach,
you know what I mean? Them big old Texans walking
around with a two big, a little straw cowboy head,
and I'm like, who is this guy unofficially own sure
(13:25):
officially no.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Or maybe a minority. You see a Blackstone or KKR
owning twenty thirty percent, but the board still runs it.
But the finances what they do is bring it infrastructure,
back office sophistication because as you mentioned, as the business
keeps growing, are the universities as today are they currently
built to you know, understand what the money's coming in,
money's coming out, now you have payroll. It's an incredible
(13:49):
tres transition.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I think that could happen at the lower scale. That
wouldn't happen at Texas because at Texas is too many
elbows to Greece, you know what I mean. Like Texas,
we not let nobody just walk in here. And oh
not at Texas, you know what I mean? Not at Texas.
Not to mention we're Texas and those big time programs
(14:11):
like the You, they're so traditional. We don't like nothing change.
We wanted black jerseys when I was in college, and
the amount of pushback we got just to change our
jerseys was a hell no. This is the way we
do things, the way we're always going to do things.
So it's somewhere like Texas. I don't see it happening
at a smaller school, maybe even a private school. Yeah,
then I could see it happening.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And yet you do see this the money coming in
because of the TV contracts. So, knowing what you know
about media, what would you where do you think NFL
games should play like?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Network?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Network, streamers anything, streamers.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I think one big bank takes a little bank, you
know what I mean, and streamers got big, big bank.
And the reason I would say streamers is the games
in Netflix can be watched all over the world, you
know what I mean. If you've got a game on Fox,
you got a game on ABC, you had a game
on CBS. To some degree, that's limiting in Nigeria when
I go back during Christmas, I can't necessarily watch that.
(15:09):
I believe the streamers have more reach. I also believe
the streamers have easier barriers to entry. Oh I just
need the ad, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
What I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
There's just an easier barrier to entry. So I think
the streamers. The problem is the streamers do not currently
have the infrastructure. You all saw Netflix tried to do
a couple of live sporting events. Things are freezing. They
don't have the right host to do it, they don't
have the people to call the right games, they don't
have the right production quality. I mean they're outsourcing everything,
not realizing to put on a good product, you have
(15:39):
to have be a team. You have to be molded together,
you have to light light like we've talked about in sports,
like you have to have camaraderie. But I do think
streamers would be ideal just because it has the biggest reach.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So to that point, I mean, let's talk about as
we shift from sort of NFL and football to the
media world, talk about your transition about you know that
moment where you're like, Okay, I'm done. You know, as
so many athletes in the in football are. You're done
at a young age. How'd you decide what to do next?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So this might be my favorite part of the conversation.
Sitting across from one of the greatest at what he
ever did athletically, I was not humble enough to acknowledge
I was not. I look myself in the league, JK.
I look myself in the eyes in the league a Rod,
and I said, Okay, gotcho, You're not going to be
a pro bowler. You're not going to be a Hall
of Famer. You're not going to be an All pro.
You've played four years in the NFL, vested Penson annuity.
(16:35):
Leave while you still have your health. Now what I did?
The oldest text message in my phone to this date
twenty sixteen, August twenty third. It's the text from the
Buffalo Bills. And the Buffalo Bills were like, Hey, Amanuel,
we want to bring you in for a workout. Send
us your Social Security number and your license. I never responded.
Why did I save that text message? Because I wanted
to remind myself I walked away from the NFL. The
(16:56):
NFL didn't walk away from me. Whether that's true or not.
At least you have a text message of an NFL
team asking you to come in for a workout, of
which you rejected and you declined. Who knows if they
would have signed you, But psychologically that helped me move forward. Now,
after moving forward, where the hell are you gonna go?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
How old are you?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Twenty five at the time? Twenty five at the time,
I'd been cut five times by the age of twenty five,
So been cut five times in the NFL by the
age of twenty five is time to move on, Okay,
go back to Austin, Texas. That was home. I send
an email to every news director at every local station
in Austin. The news director is essentially the owner, if
you will, like, they make the decisions CBS, NBC, Fox,
(17:38):
ABC local stations at Austin. I say, hey, I would
love to come on your network following Texas football games
and do a show, you know, maybe Mondays with Manny.
We can call it Emmanuel Manny Mondays with Manny. One
news director bit Pam Vought local station in Austin, Texas,
Fox seven, So I start doing Mondays with Manny simultaneously.
I'm born and raised in Dallas, Texas, a huge Rangers fan,
(18:00):
a rodders who I vividly remember it. I'm born and
raised in Austin, Texas. The Cowboys were creating a Twitter show.
I get an email from the head of social for
the Dallas Cowboys. Hey, we're creating the show on Twitter.
Do you want to come do it? I'm like, well,
I need the money. It got the opportunity, Okay, cool.
So now we're doing Fox seven Austin. We're doing a
show for the Dallas Cowboys on Twitter. Longhorn Network is
off the University of Texas own subsidiary, so they were like, Yo, hey,
(18:22):
can you do Longhorn Network games? I said why not?
And I just did that over over over over over.
Finally I get recognized. After two years, I get a
call they want to promote me nationally to ESPN. So
now I'm going to ESPN on on on Mondays and
Tuesdays to do get up. Now. Now I've made it
to big time ESPN. ESPN all the execs to get
an email, Hey, we love this dude in the pink suit.
(18:45):
Who is he? I'm the dude in the pink suit.
The email came from a guy named Bob Iger.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Ah heard of him.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Iger sends an email to all the execs. I love
that guy in the pink suit. Happens to be me
of Disney And that is how my sports media career began. Wow.
I leave ESPN after two years because Fox recruitsed me, Hey,
we want you to essentially come host a show. And
I was like, I could stay at ESPN and be
a guy, or I could go to Fox and be
the guy. I'd rather be a big fish in a
(19:13):
small pond than a small fish in a big pond,
leave go to Fox to become the guy. But interestingly enough,
my sports career, actually sports TV career, paled in comparison
to my cultural TV career.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So we're going to get to that in a second,
but I want to go back just to the very
beginning of that, which was sort of what inspired you that.
It's like, I want to be on TV? Like what
was what was that? Was it something you had done,
something you had studied at high school and college? Like
what was it? That great question tracted that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
If I was good at math, I would have been
an accountant, you know what I mean. But I was
good at television, So I went on TV. Grew up
in my dad's a pastor, So I grew up going
to first service, second service, and that third service was
the longest. But I grew up going to all three
services in a church. And so I heard speaking for
a living. Yeah, and so I knew how to put
words together. And all television is is for those that
(20:05):
are actually good at it is just figuring out how
to put words together. Some analogies, you know what I mean,
similease like can you tell stories anecdotally? And so because
I grew up just capturing that through osmosis. I said,
let's go into TV and then a rod JK, it's
just sharpening your sword. Yeah, now, it's just sharpening your sword.
And so on television, I do two things. I watch
(20:26):
Oprah Winfrey and I watch battle Rap. There's those two things,
Oprah and battle Rap. Oprah teaches me how to be
an interviewer. Battle Rap teaches me how to present. And
so that was kind of like my hidden secrets to
the sauce of television.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
So one of the things that I always talk to
young kids about, and even as I go to universities,
people always talk about math and I have to be
great at math. And I actually sayly, one of the
best things you can do in business is be a
great communicator. So you have to be able to articulate.
So you're halfway home, but you talked about you specifically.
Your father was a preacher. Can you tell me specific
things that you learned about him about what made him
(21:13):
such a gifted speaker? And are you more like him
or you more like mom?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Or you're a hybrid one thousand percent like that. Dad
came from Nigeria to America with nothing in the late
nineteen seventies, he was working at Taco Bell and was
working at a janitor. And then he got his undergrad degree,
and then he got his doctorate degree after getting his
master's degree. So he has his own private practice in psychology.
And so that started his own private practice in Dallas.
(21:36):
And then remember he's a black man with an accent
that's about five nine talking like this now, So he's
a black man with an accent in the late eighties
with a doctorate degree, you know what I mean. And
so then in Dallas, in Dallas, Texas. And so really
what I learned from Dad was a couple of things. One,
a work ethic that is unparalleled. Two is how can
(22:00):
you communicate in a manner that makes someone able to understand.
I think one of our biggest problems in society is
we have too many people that are receiver oriented as
opposed to speaker oriented. Speaker oriented, it's my job to
make sure a Rod and Jason know what I'm saying.
Receiver oriented, Hey, we're putting the onus on them to
understand what the speaker's saying. I'm a speaker oriented person
(22:20):
at all times, so it is my job to make
sure I dumb something down as simple as possible to
make sure the receiver can hear what I'm saying. And
so that's what I try to do as a communicator.
It's like, okay, what's my avenue in and so like
I have to figure out and I feel like we
are all charged to figure out what's the best way
to speak to make sure the receiver can understand. And
(22:40):
that's also what I learned from watching Pops in a poolpit.
You know what I mean, depending upon the sermon, I'm
going to change my energy to make sure you can
receive it. If I'm preaching about tithing, might be a
little bit more gentle. If I'm preaching about, you know,
changing your life radically, I might be a little more passionate.
So learning how to change the way you speak can
communicate so people can receive.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And so how does that translate to talking about sports?
Because I will say I've been watching you for years
and you know you clearly have a different approach. I mean,
it is the thing that Bob Iker saw with the
guy in the pink suit. You know, you you pop differently,
not just because of the suit, but because your presentation.
The way that you present is very it's the pulpit.
(23:27):
How do you translate that to sports and how do
you translate it specifically to speakeasy, which is your new show.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh Man, speak easy a differentity, So I'll get to that. Yeah,
translating it into sports man, it's sports is almost like
catching the wind. Which way do you need to speak
to make sure like you're hitting people where you need
to hit him. Everybody says we don't like debate, We
don't like debate. That's a lie. Debate rates. Yeah, so
you do like debate. Now, you might not like the
search and debater, but you like debate because debate rates you. Also,
(23:56):
in sport, you have to learn how to be like
more explosive. You have to learn how to be a
little bit more inflammatory. But on social media, in sport,
everybody thinks they know everything. You can find somebody that
thinks they know more about baseball than a rod on
social media right now, yes, you know what I mean,
like at EA two two nine nine underscore like they
right now, they think they know more about baseball than this, right.
(24:21):
So on social media, I don't try to teach on
social media. I try to say, hey, here's what I found.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
What are you interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
If I try to say this is what they're doing,
they'll be like, well, no, that's not what they're doing.
Because my high school coach told nah, social media is different.
Social media is like, hey, I'm going to show you
all this and what do y'all think? And that's how
you try to manipulate that algorithm. Also realizing though, Instagram,
X and TikTok are also all different, so you can't
(24:51):
just think you can communicate, even in sports, in one,
one size fit soul way. The only way is being
true to you and figuring out how do you manipulate
what's true to you into that platform or that network
or that device.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And so tell us about speakeasy. How does this come about?
I mean the origin story. We know enough to be
dangerous about it. That your your giggins at FS one. Yeah,
twenty four hours later, bro.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I haven't shared the details of this story, but it's
a safe space, okay, So let's buckle up, let's do it.
I am in Paris on vacation. I got a call
from my agent, and my agent says, hey, Fox is
canceling all LA based sports shows, daily shows. I'm like, wait,
what the hell? Yeah, Fox is canceling all of them.
(25:42):
So now I'm shocked. I'm literally like in Paris chillin'.
While in Paris, two interesting things happened. One person came
up to me because I used to be on a
show called Speak for Yourself. They said, yoah, Joe, I
love you on Speak for Yourself. I was like, I
haven't done that show in years. I was currently a
ron on a show called The Facility. Another person came
up for me, yo, acho, I love you on the Faculty.
(26:03):
I'm like, it's the So that taught me two things
after realizing my show had been canceled. Hey, Ocho, if
you create another show, leverage the four years of IP
you built into Speak for Yourself. So if you're gonna
create another show, put speak into the title.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Now, I looked at the market of sports television. I said,
where are the vacancies in the sports TV market. The
vacancy's at night. I live in California. Games primetime games
end at eight o'clock. Yo, watch, you can go live
at night.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
If you're gonna do a show at night and you're
gonna put speak in the title, what the hell do
you call it? Speak? Easy sophisticated sports talk. Okay, great, well,
now how are you gonna do it?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
By the way, this is all happening in like real time.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I like, no time to mourn, no time to cry.
It's time to get to work. And so okay, where's
the vacancy. It's at night? Show title speakeasy. Okay, Now
how are you gonna do it? Acho? Bill? The show
so nice that you can sell it to network immediately.
Don't do nothing on your laptop with some little logo
behind you the Emmanuelaco Show, and you're doing it, you
know from your mom's basement. No, build a state of
(27:12):
the art studio that a Netflix, a Peacock, a Paramount
plus exec can look at and say, yo, we can
light green light that right now, Because now I can
go to network and say, don't worry about hair, don't
worry about makeup, don't worry about wardrobe, don't worry about
studio costs, don't worry about production costs, don't even worry
about talent costs. I got all of that. I have
(27:33):
proof of concept. You give me a boatload of money,
I'll give you a show. The dilemma is from when
the show got canceled. On July fourteenth until season starting
September fourth, a rod, I had fifty four days. I
got fifty four days to think of a name, find
a studio, built out a studio, find talent, higher talent,
Negotiate with talent. Relocate some talent because they lived in
(27:55):
New York. Find a team, find a production team, buy
all the right cameras, and then buy all the right
furniture to furnish the studio. You got fifty four days
cause you're launching week one because it's the Cowboys versus
Eagles on Thursday night, September fourth, go and I looked
at it like a game. What do I mean by that?
(28:15):
I looked at it and I said, Okay, if Fox
is going to give you money to leave, but it's
not going to be the same money you're going to
make for the year, Ali Dacho, can you make as
much money as you were making in your one year
at Fox by taking this money and taking these social
media feeds? Because that was part of it. Like when
I walked away from Fox, I walked away with the
social media feeds from my show, which means I walked
(28:36):
away with two point six million YouTube subscribers one point
four million Facebook subscribers, seven hundred and twenty thousand Instagram subscribers,
five hundred thousand Twitter subscribers, and four hundred thousand TikTok subscribers.
That's real currency. People don't realize, like, that's currency. So
can you take those followers? And can you take this money?
And can you build something that will make you money?
(28:58):
How did you get to hang under that negotiations like
can you take this followers, this money and can you
build something? Bro? Within fourteen days of starting the show,
I had a seven figure offer.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's back up. That's a beautiful story, but I really
want to get into the mental side of this. Yeah, okay,
so you said fifty four days walkers through. Now you're
in day twenty four. Is it more excitement, anxiety, nervous?
Are you looking for investors? Are you waking up in
the matter of that night? I go speak easy? Is
that the right name of the wrong name?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Great question?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I like good questions. I was never excited never. I
was only ever scared and I was only ever anxious.
But when you're scared, just do it anyway. I was
never excited, really never never Why I was scared? One?
What if the idea is not good. Two what if
it doesn't work? Three you're hemorrhaging money until you're not
(29:55):
Four what if you can't get all these contracts done? Five?
What if you can't start on time? Six what if
people hate it? Only ever scared? How in the world
did I kind of move forward? Day twenty four. I
had a couple issues. I need to find somewhere to
build a studio out, and then you have to allot
like seven days for ish to go wrong. Yeah, you
(30:16):
know what I mean. That's why I love being able
to share my story because I tell you all the time,
I'm not that talented. So the people that are watching
you send across from a cat whose parents came to
America with nothing and is just figuring it out. I'm
not that talented. I just work really hard and I'm resourceful.
So Day twenty four, I'm coming up with backup plans
in case my first plans go completely awry. That's Day
(30:37):
twenty four. I laid things out a ride. I said, okay, Ocho,
let's work backwards. If you want to launch by September fourth,
then you need to have the studio be done being
built out by the last week. In August so that
you can rehearse the last week in August, which means
you need to start construction three weeks before the last
week in August, which means you need to know your
talent four weeks before that. So I'm starting to work backwards.
(31:00):
So now that you work backwards, who's going to be
your general contractor, who's going to be your designer? Where
you're going to get the furniture, and then acho you
cannot afford to sleep. You just can't afford to sleep
because you don't have time to sleep. So if every
it's something fails, it stops with you. And I had
to do little stuff like delete all the Facebook posts
on the previous account that I was taking over thirty
thousand Facebook posts. I'm enter tab, enter down, enter enter tab,
(31:24):
enter down, enter enter tab, enter down, enter entertab. I
gotta do all that. Yeah, you feel me. So, not
only do I have to ideate all of this show
and then negotiate all of this show, of which I
did all by myself. Mind you, like there's no agent,
just me and chat GPT, so of which I did
all by myself. You also have to do the mundane
work like deleting social media posts from an account. Your
(31:44):
take over.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
What about talent? How do you identify that? Woo?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
That's the most fun part. Identifying talent is how you win.
This is how you win in sports, It's how you
win in anything. Identifying talent is how you win getting
the right roster. There was a kid that came up
to me. His name was Kier and he came up
to me in twenty twenty at a track meet in
New York. Yo Ocho, big fan of yours. Man, I
do some stuff on social media, bro, you know what
I mean? Like, just a big fan of yours. I
(32:08):
grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Over the last two years, I saw a couple of
his videos going viral. I wake up JK, I wake
up a roight. After dooling the show, I was like,
what was that kid's name again? I searched one of
the videos. I didn't even remember his name. I just searched,
like viral video of this athlete. Knowing he had done
the viral video. I hit him up, Hey, yo, I'm
starting something. Let's hop on a zoom. At first, He's like, man,
I'm working for this company, working for that company. I
(32:32):
can't do it. I said, what's your price? Everybody got
a price. And I'm also like, if you nail the
show right, Acho, the money will come. Forget the money.
If you get the talent right, the money will come.
So I go and I get him and he ends
up being kind of like the sidekick co host. And
then Lashan McCoy Philadelphia, a guy behind the bar. He's
a guy behind the bar. Then Lashawn McCoy Eagles Hall
(32:53):
of Famer. We've worked together the last five years. We
were teammates back in twenty twelve. So I was like, Okay,
you get Shady because Shady's a big sport name. Acho,
you're the brainsman.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
He's a vis A vibe.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
He's the sports name. Acho, you're the talent. The Sidekicks
speaks to the younger generation. There are a lot of
shows on social media. We're a show for social media,
and there's a huge difference, a gigantic difference. Tell us
any show can be on social media, but not any
show can be made for social media. And so I
got the care Bear Karen Dude because he's young, nine
(33:25):
hundred thousand. On TikTok, he speaks to that demographic. He's
been doing stuff on social media. I gotta dude named
Social Tree. I keep him on camera. So Social Tray,
his name's Trey. He just runs social Yeah called him
Social Trade. He sits on his laptop.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
He's literally in the corner.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
He's in the corner. Hey, Rod, He's in the corner
on his laptop. He's chatting with people during the show.
If there's ever a poll, I'll be like, hey, social Tray,
drop a poll. Is a Rod, the greatest ranger of
all time. Drop the color dropping in right now, right now,
right now. And then he'll see the comics like, Ocho,
I gotta interrupt you. I gotta interrupt you. The poll
results are in da da da dah, and he'll interrupt me. Yo, Ocho.
(33:59):
We got a super chat. Superchats if somebody pays for
their comment to be seen on YouTube. So he is
literally on the show specifically to be the social media's
voice on the show. So I didn't make a show
on social media. I made a show for social media
because if you went on social media, network will come So.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Wait, wait, so let me get this straight. So you
have fans that will log in to watch your show.
They can pay like five ten bucks to ask a question.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
They can pay up to it. Yesterday we got one
hundred dollars superchat Wow. And all it does is it
puts their It puts their comment whatever they say at
the top of the YouTube chat. There's a whole YouTube
discourse going down, so it puts their comment at the
top of the chat, and they just pay for their
comment to be seen. I have a guy specifically dedicated
to interacting with those people. Then I have a camera
specifically dedicated to him. Yeah, during the show, first two
(34:45):
weeks of the show, he wasn't on camera a rod.
I'm just but I kept yelling off camera, hey yo,
can you make a poll? And I was like, wait
a second, Acho just put them on camera.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
So, in terms of creating it for social how do
you how do you keep it looking around the corner?
You've talked about that a lot. So what are you
seeing now that you know you want to do and
just haven't been able to do yet.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
A lot of things. But remember the very first thing
we started this conversation with was do not overextend right now?
Manuelacho's financing everything. I bought the cameras, I bought the
set design, Like, I put in probably three hundred thousand
dollars into everything, all things considered. And mind you, I'm
paying all talent, so I'm sole owner of it, paying
talent salaries. But what I realized was this, if you
(35:32):
look at ESPN and Fox, the two primary sports shows
daily sports, right now, over fifty percent of their content
from seven am to three pm is shows that are
produced that are licensed back to network. That's not the future,
it's the present. It's not like in some distance. It's
happening right now. Fifty percent of the content. So with
(35:54):
that being said, that's the present. So I said, wait
a second, Acho, just build it. They're all ready coming.
Not they will come. Furthermore, where's the market going? Oh, Netflix,
you want to get more into live sports? Oh you
ain't got a sports show. I can save you a
headache and a whole bunch of money. I'll just do
it for you. And then rather than going to Netflix
with different note cards and hey look at my slide presentation.
(36:17):
Hey here's a show I want to sell you on.
So I'm gonna sit here and this is going to
person's gonna be here. I know you have to build
it's gonna cost you a couple hundred thous No, No,
it's done, done, it's built, it's done, Like just cut
me to check it's done. And so seeing around corners
looks like where's the market going? Yeah, what's the market need?
Anticipate those needs?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
What is exactly the business model? And is the business
model one that you're hoping to tread water? Unto the
big fish comes and you can land in Netflix or
on Amazon? And at what point are you thinking about
raising capital? If ever?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Great question, I've was offered capital, I said, no, reason
being I'm sitting on a gold mine. Hell nah, like
y'all stay over here. I don't need the capital because
I don't want to have to dilute what I got going.
Phenomenal question on are you going to try to water?
There's several different business problems. When you start a show
on social number one, you can exist and make a
(37:10):
boatload of money off your sponsors. Right So, like right now,
I landed the seven figure deal that will essentially cover
ninety percent of my cost. Grace of God, I landed
it within two weeks of starting the show.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's a sponsorship type, sponsorship type deal, like that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
There's YouTube ad revenue, those sponsorship deals, those are your
primary ways to make your money, all while simultaneously a
rod the reason you built the show so nice, Acho,
remember land the streamer. I didn't build the show to
exclusively stay on social. If I did that, I could
just got my laptop done it super cheap. Instead, I
built a studio. I built like a real state of
(37:46):
the art type studio so that a streamer can go, oh,
that's nice, greenlit. Now that I know my costs, if
my costs are X, if I can make why then
your money is that that difference between that HY and
that X. Whereas when I'm just working for Fox, working
for a network, this is your salary. But bro, now
that I'm an owner, it's so interesting because I'm like, okay, wait, atcho,
(38:06):
this is your expenses for the year. So now this
is the number to break you even and anything above
that you're making money. Figure out how to go make money?
And now you eat what you kill? And ain't nothing
better in life than living with a eat what you
kill model. If you know how to go kill, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
And so how does that feel to you at this point?
I mean, it's it feels like you said you weren't excited.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Feels But the reason I'm excited now is oftentimes people
don't get to see the light at the end of
the tunnel. You just got to walk through the tunnel
in the dark and trust you're going to see light.
I've gotten to see light at the end of the
tunnel quickly, incredibly quickly. That's why I'm excited. Otherwise it
(38:47):
would just be a long, arduous journey. But I'll say
this just for those listening, the three things I learned.
If you want to start like a million dollar business,
find a billion dollar corporation sports The second thing I
learned was is there a vacancy of part of that corporation?
Oh nighttime sports show? And then the third thing are
(39:10):
you do you have an inherent access point? Do you
have an inherent advantage? My advantage I was starting with
five point three million subscribers across all channels. So you
want to make a million find the billion? Then is
there competition in that million of the billion that you're
finding if there's not exists there? And then lastly, do
you have an inherent advantage? If you can check all
three of those boxes, I suggest it's not that complicated,
(39:34):
it's just difficult.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, so three names, Pat McAfee, Steven A Smith, Bill Simmons,
are any of those three kind of the north of
what you're trying to build?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
If not who, I'd probably say an amalgamation of all three. Yeah,
here's why. And I don't use that as a cop out.
I was reading a book called The Hidden Habits of
Genius and the Hidden Habits of Genius just looked at
different geniuses suggested throughout the history of mankind, and genius
is synthesi information. Can you find the invisible connective tissue
(40:03):
between different things. The reason I did speakeasy speakeasy instead
of the Emmanuelacco Show, the Pat McAfee show, I don't
always have to host it. Ah, So you can sell
speakeasy one day, find to really get host, slot them
in the chair. Then I can go do speakeasy sophisticated
political talk. I ain't got to host it. You've already
built the model. Then I can go speakeasy sophisticated pop
(40:25):
culture talk hosted for a year, get out the chair.
If you name the show after you, you got to
be the show. So the reason I didn't name the
show after me was because oh I don't always want
to be the show. That's why I said an amalgamation
of all of them, you know what I mean. McAfee
is brilliant. I think he's one of the first who
have ever done it. But McAfee's the McAfee show. He
can never stop the working. He is the brand. The
(40:48):
social media channels of his show are his. He's the brand.
I did that with Uncomfortable Conversations. I didn't want to
do that again, and so whereas Simmons, he isn't necessarily
the brand. Here the brand the ringer exactly right. So
that was kind of my thought process.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
So I'm glad you mentioned uncomfortable conversations because it's really,
I have to say, one of the first times I
really encountered you. Uncomfortable with conversations with a black man.
I feel like took you to an whole other level,
like a different universe, a different galaxy. So distill it
down for us if you can, like what happened.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Uncomfortable conversations got me into the matrix. Yeah, it got
me into the matrix, changed my life. Five days after
George Floyd gets murdered, I start a show I'm in Austin, Texas,
and I rent a studio space, and I say, hey, Emmanuel,
you should just go talk and answer a lot of
questions in society right now that people are asking, Hey,
why are black people rioting? Why can black people say
(41:48):
the N word but white people can't? What is going
on societally? And I was like, Okay, Emmanuel, you should
do this. I was going to do it with the
sweet white friend of mine, but at the last second,
my white friend got cold feet, so I said, Emmanuel,
you got to do it yourself first. It was going
to be questions white people have. That was going to
be the name of the show. Terrible grame. But if
she's driving down, she's like, yo, Emanuel, it's not just
white people have questions. Why don't you change the title
(42:08):
maybe uncomfortable conversations? Because I was like, uncomfortable conversations, it
just doesn't stick. I walked by a mirror. I looked
to the right. I walked back by the mirror. I
looked to the last you're a black man, uncomfortable conversations
with a black man, So we do that now. I
don't have anybody to shoot it. I don't have a
beautiful video team that y'all can see that's behind all
these cameras. But I knew somebody that was a wedding videographer.
(42:29):
Wedding videographer said hey, yo, bro, can you come shoot
this thing. I go to this all white studio space.
I shoot this episode. Within five days of a twenty
five million views, now direct messages from the likes of
Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Aniston, everybody in the mom has now
hit me up. I don't know what to do. I
got a call from a no call a ID number.
I pick it up. O Choe McConaughey speaking. I want
(42:52):
to have a conversation. So McConaughey like Matthew McConaughey. He's like,
I want to have a conversation. I was like, all right,
let's do it in three four days. He says about tomorrow.
I was like, ah, Now, the thing about it a rod.
I didn't want to follow up, because how the hell
do you follow up twenty five million views? You don't.
But mccanae says he wants to do it tomorrow. We
do it tomorrow. Me and McConaughey, Matthew McConaughey. We sit
(43:12):
down and do the next episode. I get a call
five days later from another no call already number. Hi
Emmanuel Oprah Winfrey speaking. I'm like Oprah, Like Oprah, Oprah,
Oprah Oprah. She said, Emmanuel, do you have time to FaceTime?
Later today, I said, do I have time? You have time?
We hop on FaceTime. She's sitting in her kitchen. She
asked me one question, She says, Emmanuel, what is your intention?
(43:35):
I said, Oprah, my intention is to change the world.
I truly believe I can. I'm currently working on writing
a book. She said books. I love books. So Oprah
and I partner together to write un Comfortable Conversations with a
Black Man, number three on the bestseller list, Uncomfortable Conversations
with a Black Boy. I've since written in Comfortable Conversations
with the June number three on the bestsellers list. I'm
the only person not named Oprah to have more than
one book under the Oprah imprint. So I wrote my
books under the Oprah imprint. After that boom, life changes.
(43:59):
I end up hosting the I end up moving into
corporate America. I've spoken for every corporation. Michael Jordan calls
me and they fly me to Seaport, New York, and
I speak to everybody at Jordan Brand. Jordan included just
about all of these different things, and so it was
one of those things. The reason I entered into the
matrix was because uncomfortable conversations was what put me into
(44:22):
society in a manner that's I couldn't imagine change my life,
change my life.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
What is it like when you pick up the phone
and it's Oprah on the other I mean, yeah, man,
what is that?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
You know what? Bro None of those moments moved me
because I was in such a period of life where
I was like, Acho Steward it well. I would just
walk down Beverly Hills because I lived in La then
at the time I moved from Austin, and I'll say,
Ocho Stewart, it well, Stewart, it well, like be a
good steward of it, Like this is not about you,
(44:59):
be a good steward of it. So when Oprah called
it was cool, mcconae called it was cool. Justin Bieber
came up to me, it was cool, But it was
just Acho Stewart it well, like, do not miss the mission,
do not miss the moment like you're a man on
a mission. You're a man who meant a moment steward it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well, so that's got to be your dad, right probably?
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And my faith, Yeah, and my faith. So it's all
been cool, it's all been special. We've done a lot
of great things. I mean, how the heck we started TV?
We got two emmys, you know what I mean? But
that's why I'm like, this is above me. This is
if you work very hard at what you do, and
if you work very smart at what you do, and
if you're incredibly resourceful with what you do, you will
(45:41):
find success at what you do.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
All right, So this is where we do rapid fire.
Ten questions will bounce it back and forth. You're ready,
Let's go, all right. What's one word to describe your
deal making style?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Strategic?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
What's more important to you? Gut or data?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's a good question. Data.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Let's say you magic.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
What's the best piece of advice you received on deal
making or business?
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Bet on brains?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Huh, that's a good freaking question. You can't do it.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
What's a deal that you wish you had done.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I don't want to live and regret, so I'm gonna
say none. But I have the opportunity to host The
Bachelor in perpetuity, and I'm always curious what that would
have looked like and i'd done it.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Interesting. Do you have a dream guest on uncomfortable conversations?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Who isn't?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
No, My dream guest is whoever meets the moment in time,
So there's no, there's no dream guest.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're gonna even watch one sport for the rest of
your life?
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Oh here's the thing, a rod you got to qualify
Game seven, Game seven or super the Olympics. You know
what I mean? If I'm only watching one sport football,
But if you're telling me like the Olympics, I take
the Olympics, which sport and the track? Okay, done, I'm
watching track and field. I'm watching the four black for
me to relay.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
What team do you want to see win a championship
more than any?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
The San Francisco forty nine ers.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
What's your advice for someone who wants a career.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Just like yours, don't have a career like yours?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
There you go? All right?
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Eman?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Well at thank you so much. This was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Thank you, Thank you, Kell. This is great.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
The show was produced by Anamazarakis, Stacey Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Our booker is Paige Keffer. David E. Ravella is our
(47:56):
managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason ke Kelly, Amy Keen,
Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Regina Delia, Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenig.
Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts Special thanks to
Rachel Carnevale, Elena Los Angeles and Nick Silva. Joshua Deveaux
(48:18):
is our director of photography. Rubob Shakir is our creative director.
Art direction is from Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Don Downie,
Genevieve Aegar and Emmanuel Moran. Our gaffer is Kelly Porterfield,
and our grip is Justin Birch. Alex Diacanis is our
video editor and Will Connolly is our assistant editor. You
(48:41):
can listen to the deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into
the video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV.
Thanks for listening.
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