December 6, 2021 • 38 mins
Writer/Director Sean McEwan has worked for almost a decade to turn the story of The Dougherty Gang into a movie. Sean started by working with the siblings themselves, wrote the script, and recently produced and directed the film which is currently in post production. He’s brought in the actors who are playing the Dougherty Siblings to talk about the process of bringing a true story to the screen and what it is like playing, Lee Grace, Dylan & Ryan.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to The Dougherty Gang, a production of I Heart
Radio and Katie Studios. This is our final episode, episode
twelve Round Table. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime producer at
Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker. We've been working with producer
Beth Greenwald on The Dockerty Gang for months now. This
(00:24):
podcast is being made into a movie. Writer director Seawan
McEwan as the filmmaker who took on the story of
the Doughertys. He first met the siblings eight years ago,
and today he sits down with the film's lead actors,
India Eisley who plays Lee Grace, Emery Cohen who plays Dylan,
(00:44):
and Sam Strike who plays Ryan. They talk about their
roles in the film and the process of making the movie.
Sean also spoke with podcast executive producer Joseph Morgan India
Ladies for So, first of all, how did you find
out about the movie? When did you read the script
and what was your initial reaction to the story. The
(01:08):
script was just sent to me like any other appointment,
any other directors meeting, and I had not heard of
the story before I got the script. So in the
email package, I first I read the article, and then
I read the script and what was your impression of
the article? When I read the article, it was a
very interesting read, especially because I hadn't heard of the
story at all. I found it more heartbreaking than anything,
(01:30):
especially that the extremely harsh sentencing that they that they
were given. And as far as attracting me to the project,
what attracted me? And when I heard that Sam and
Emory were on board, I was found to both of
their work Sound from mind Hunter, Emory from the OA,
and he had worked with some that I know, and
so I wanted to work with them, and you know,
(01:52):
it was just honestly, the whole thing appealed to me.
Oh so, Emory, I'm gonna shift it over to you
and ask you the same. How did you find out
about the movie? Yeah? I mean, like India, I didn't
know about the story. And to me, it was like
kind of a story about family and I found that
to be that like struck me, you know, because it's
(02:12):
hard to imagine doing certain things, but then you put
yourself in a scenario of what you would need to
do to you know, protect your family or keep your
family safe, and that opened up a world of imagination
that's amazing. So what is it about the real life
character of Ryan that attracted you to the role and
did you feel like you could relate with Ryan? Um?
(02:38):
I was reading one Ryan in the script, but then
talking to Ryan, I was getting quite different Ryan, and
I felt overwhelmed already and I was up. I was
having a crisis in the in the few days leading
up to shooting, like who is this guy? Specifically because
it all happened quite quickly for being cost to get
in to getting into the States. What was attractive to
me was that his perception of himself. I think it
(03:00):
was quite different from how other people perceived them and
for me, that helped create like an arc from start
to finish. Yeah, that's great. So also I'll swing this
over to UH to India the same thing. What is
it about the real life character and the character that
attracted you to the role? For me, I just without
(03:20):
sounding you know, contrived or anything. When I work, I
tend to just focus on the energy before I focus
on details. And you know, like I didn't really want
to judge her on the script or on the article,
and I really was waiting for that first phone call
with her, and then I kind of took it from
(03:43):
there perfect and so everything to you. Well, I mean
at first, there was a lot that was really foreign
to me. You know, like I'm an only child, I'm
from New York City and this is a story about
the oldest brother the family trying to kind of be
like the father of that family. But I did relate to,
(04:06):
Like I remember, I know, like with my friends at times,
I have this very protective quality about two of my
best best friends in particular, where like if something happened,
they're both actors, and like, if something happens to them
or it goes wrong with them, like I immediately want
to try to like save them. And I think Dylan,
he's really trying to save the people he loves in
(04:29):
this kind of way, almost like a martyr, you know,
like you would sacrifice himself for his family. So Sam, here,
you read the script, there's this Ryan character hopefully that's
on the page to some extent. Then you connect with
him in real life, and then you of course kind
of put your own dynamic on it as well. Yeah.
I remember we were all out for lunch Mayeve memory
(04:50):
in India, and you got up for a second and
you came back to the table and handed me the phone.
I'm like, Ryan's Ryan, and I was I wasn't expecting that,
and oh no, like drop it on me, and I
met I've met all of you guys in an American
accent because I was trying to maintain it. So I
I've got to speak to this guy that I'm playing
(05:13):
as a brit pretending to be American, like I'm waiting
for him to for the holes to start showing. And
I was really flustered. And he got say Sam Hayd
And I said, I'm I'm a good brand. How are
you doing? And he says, I'm sitting in jail. How
do you think I'm doing? And it was I didn't
know how to respond to that, you know, his perception
of himself versus I think his brothers and sister's perception
(05:37):
of him too. Um, because I spoke to Emory in
India and like, you know, I what did Dylan and
Lee Grace say to you? And tried to see if
the story is matched. Um, and Ryan had said to
me in a matter of words that you know, he
felt he was the brains of the operation. And to me,
from what I had pieced together, it seems like Dylan
(06:00):
was and Ryan to me, Ryan really really looked up
to so India. You know, we talked about I don't
want to call the skill. It's not a skill obviously,
but kind of in that category of certain things you
have to take on something that has no skills. Yeah,
I went very talented there. But there is you know,
it's public record and also something that Lee Grace has
(06:23):
openly shared both in her interviews and as most of
us spoken to her about her drug use, and there
is drug use in the film. That character has her
own relationship to drugs. Shall we say, what does that
mean to you as an actor? Did that come into
play with any of your sort of being cognizant of
the reality of etcetera. That was a big, big part
(06:45):
of every aspect of how I played her because she
is she you know, even on the phone, she is
she is very much an addict, like she has that
kind of personality and that really does bleed into every
every aspect of someone's life. And you know, I think
it all without getting too introspective and boring, it all
(07:05):
does kind of go back to her childhood and feeling
deprived of what she she needs. That extra kick there
was definitely a kind of a frenetic kind of place
that she was in where it was never enough. That's
kind of what what I picked up on. And that
was something that I didn't get until I spoke to
her on the phone, that constant unrest that she always has,
(07:27):
like she can't relax, she's incapable of relaxing, even when
she thinks she is. I'm not glorifying it or anything,
but I found it a very very helpful hook in
playing her. It's a direct line to where she's damaged.
Very well. Put Yeah, there was, wasn't There's always this
underlying sadness and even in real life too, I mean, yeah,
(07:48):
that was the main thing I got from her. Like
she'd be on a high and too'd be talking and
stuff and she and you know, and so excited about something.
She was like, yeah, man, it was it was fucking great.
No, no no, no, and so and suddenly there'd be a
quite a silence with her, but she just go and
it was like those silences really spoke volumes to what
(08:09):
was going on with her as a human being, in
the type of person she had become become. That's so great,
Thank you very well. Put so Embery from an audience
perspective at the docrites as being these anti heroes. You know,
how do you view them? Do you view them as
anti heroes? You view Dylan is that you know, he's
a hero, his story, you know what I mean, he's
(08:29):
a rebel, which I guess in from society's terms to
make him an anti hero. I found him, you know,
just it's just I don't know if this answer is
the question, but I know that when I was creating Dylan,
I was very aware that this for me, a lot
of the journey was him wanting to be his brother
(08:50):
and sister's hero and saving them from trauma, as India
says that it already happened, that he couldn't have saved
them from that he wasn't in the position to save
them from when they were kids, and him recognizing that
that he couldn't be their hero and that it wasn't
necessarily his responsibility and trying to find an acceptance of
(09:14):
that that. I saw that as kind of a whatever
you call it arc or whatever. The character in a
lot of ways for his journey is is him breaking,
is this facade of him being able to be this
hero breaking, cracking and breaking down, you know, in the
failure of his plan for for him, like achieving the
(09:34):
goal of getting out of the bank probberty and all
that and getting his his family to safety. You know,
was sort of a breakdown on this facade of himself
as this hero. I think ever he hit the nile
on the head. I think really is perspective, isn't it. Yeah,
I really think that's it. It's it's perspective in the
(09:56):
sense that they are the heroes of their own story
and they feel that they have strong enough motive too
to take such a big step and make the decision
that they made too, you know, go on the run.
I think it seems sorrh it, doesn't it to do
things for your family, Like Emery said, Dylan was doing
(10:17):
it for Lee, Grace and Ryan, and I think Ryan
was doing it for for his kid too. My perspective
of it is that I think their hands were forced
slightly considering their situation. If you're gonna there's a there's
(10:39):
a risk and there's a reward, you know, and the
reward would have been that they would have made it,
and the risk is that they didn't and they didn't. Yeah,
you know, so India any take without for you. Also,
in REGARDSS toly Grace, I think, you know, the entire
situation kind of which sounds just kind of brought up
a good point is that you know, Dylan was doing
(11:02):
it for his siblings, Ryan, he was doing it for
you know, his you know, his lady and his baby.
And I think that that was a big part of
the emptiness that I mentioned is Lee Grace didn't feel
like she really had anything. There wasn't really like a
singular thing that she was living for at that point
other than you know, her drugs and you know, to
(11:24):
just keep keep going, keep moving forward and having fun.
At times, she didn't have an emotional, you know, thing
to cling onto. So there's always a lost aspect with her.
And so I think she went throughout this, throughout this
entire thing, really with no solid trajectory. There was no
solidity to what she was doing. She was very much
(11:45):
just loved her brothers and was just like, fine, fuck it,
we'll do it. I don't view it as good or bad.
I think they were three human beings that were born
into a very very unfortunate set of circumstances. Is there
anything that you can recollect about your character that really
helped you understand them or to be able to play them.
(12:07):
I grew up around that kind of environment, more like
blue collar, and there are certain things that I feel
do translate across between the two countries, you know. And yeah,
little things like the smoking, and it changes the way
you walk and save there's shots of us driving. There's
(12:28):
just some shots of us driving in the car, like
you can be driving or you can be driving and smoking.
And it, to me, does it changes things a little
bit because you tend to smoke when your board sometimes
or to pass the time, and you know, I'm time
was running out for them. I don't know what I'm
trying to say here, but you know what makes sense
(12:51):
for me. I didn't have smoking as a as a thing,
but like as a physical thing to use. I did
pick up the phone calls though that she those silences
that I mentioned, I just kind of you know, when
you when you bring in the drugs, um, because she
loved pills. That was her big thing. And um, as
(13:14):
far as the behavioral thing, I imagined that her eyes
would always be kind of darting because she's always looking
for something, so like there's always something that she doesn't have.
And so whether it's pills or a person or you
know that there's always something that she's just like outwardly
looking for. She's it's that unrest. So, yeah, Dylan explained
(13:39):
his life to me in prison sentences and pro violations
and arrests, you know, like it was like his I
think he's the first thing he say, he was like, well,
the first time I got picked up, you know. And
and so he didn't explain his life to me in
the way that you know, what is child was like
(14:01):
this or that he explained it to me in like
prison sentences and things like that. And I know that
for me, he gave me this awareness that there was
these two worlds going on for him. There was this
outside world and there was the inside world, where there
was the world on parole and the world off parole.
And I didn't know that world, you know, And and
(14:22):
I remember being very aware of that. But it didn't
start until his first arrest. There is first parole violation.
We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be
back in a moment. Ryan's character is really seems to
(14:45):
be motivated by the love of his son. He was
at the time. This was all happening in their flight.
You know, his girlfriend at the time, Amber, who he
called his wife, and was heavily pregnant, and there was that.
Did the real Ryan as I call him, did he
mention his son? That all? Was that every part of
your conversations? And also do you ever mention anything about
his own upbringing? Again, it was like quite a long
(15:06):
time ago now, so I I don't know how much
I actually remembering or how much I and potentially not
making up. But you know that happens, he said. I
got the impression from him that him and leg Grace
were especially close. I don't know if it's that was
a maternal thing he felt. I got the impression it
was maybe a kind of a maternal thing, and about
(15:28):
is some I do remember him saying something that really
struck me, but I can't remember how we said it,
But it was the way in which he said it
that was so effective. It was something It was words
to the effect of, I I feel so guilty that
I left my kid without a dad, you know, like
(15:51):
he uh, the main thing I could really feel to
regret that that he wasn't there to raise his kid.
I don't know how he said it, to me, but
I remember that being in the message and I found
out really upsetting. You know, Oh, absolutely, well, that's that's again,
that's very touching and pactful. You've got the chaos of
the story throughout the movie, and then the chaos at
(16:13):
the end with the with like a shootout essentially between
the cops. He will be over their heads. The whole
thing has been with little bits of rest by chaos,
And I don't know personally if that's how it had
played out in real life, how cognizant he would have
been of actually getting gone down, because you think of
(16:34):
all the other really risky stuff that they've done along
the way. It's like in for we say in England,
like him for a penny, in for a pound, like
you've you've gotten this far and somehow you are still
being I think that his legs carried him. I don't
think he had any saying a matter. So I've got
to get back, you know, very very well, put India,
(16:55):
Can you expand on anything else that really spoke to
you about once you did connect with her in real life?
You know, again, I hate to sound like a broken record,
but it really was just her. Her personality was such
a strong one. I mean, she's such a spitfire. She
just came through the phone and immediately I just loved her,
Like it was just like I'm like, gosh, she's a blast.
(17:15):
There's an avoidant quality to her that I found was
very interesting where she'll just and I think a lot
of people who have experienced trauma have this where they'll
just say it like very matter of fact ly, you
know what's happened to them and did details that have
happened in their lives, and they're very kind of heavy
horrowing things. And like she would say something to me
(17:37):
and like a really personal thing and I'd be like, wait, wait,
wait what was that? What was that? And she she said,
oh yeah and so and then she just like me
say it again, and I was like okay, and inside
and like that's a really upsetting thing, Like that's a
really I don't really want to say it just out
of respect to her, but just little things like that
where it was more her demeanor towards these hardships that
(18:00):
happened to her and how she handled it, and she
was very kind of resilient in her way. So that's great. Um,
I'm gonna embarrass you, Sam, please forgive me as I recall.
So here's the context and step. So, Ryan in particular
is known to be and it's someone on public record
quite the actual driver, like a very good driver, and
was the driver for this. I think you know where
(18:20):
I'm going with this. Can you expand on that a bit, um,
what that was to you and what was unique about
that for you in particular? Well, I found out that
I was I was going to get to do the movie,
and I was really excited. And then a few days
later you and one of the producer's FaceTime and they're like,
so you can drive right, and I'm like, long, oh,
Ryan's the gataway driver. Oh. But luckily once we got
(18:44):
to the South, our stunt coordinator took me out in
a closed parking lot and gave me the basics, gave
me to run down on how to drive, and I
think we got through it okay, you know, um, And
what I don't know what I really appreciated is, uh,
the Emory and India were both extremely patient with me.
(19:05):
I've got these two actors in the car like pressure
on man, and I think Emory maybe had similar experiences
to me in the past and memory you had some
sort of mantra. There was something happened when we were
driving and I, as Dylan, just said something like slow
and steady or common rely and it I know what
(19:26):
Sam's talking about, because like, you booked this job and
you're like excited and you're ready to go, and you
don't even read that stuff like Ryan's gotten or whatever. Yeah,
where's my dialogue? Where's where? Where do I get to
say stuff? And then all of a sudden you're there
and you're like, oh fuck, I have to like do this.
So I knew exactly what he was going through and
(19:48):
he was great. Man. He killed it with with all
this stuff, especially with the driving. Yeah. Wait so so
so just to say weren't hit anything, I've hit things
like not like cars and like and you know I've
done it. You know that's great anything. Let me just
add let me just add to that. There was one
(20:10):
day when we were filming in there in the used
car lot and I was supposed to reverse into the
parking spot, but the car wasn't driving, and the cameras
right in front of me and stepped on the accelerator.
It's gone forward a break. It's so good, it's so good.
(20:31):
So that's just I love hearing this stuff. It's great.
We did ask you that. It was like, hey, you know,
obviously Sam's probably used to driving on the other side
the road. We're just gonna make sure it's comfortable. And
then yes, we did find out that you want a
driver like you didn't drive, so you had to pick
up that skill with us, and you did a wonderful
job with it. Like, I've never played a real person
that hadn't passed. I played a real person but he
(20:51):
died in like, so it's really strange to play a
real person that was still alive and is going to
have an opinion on this, you know, and it's his
life and it's going to people are to say this
and form their own opinions. There's a lot of pressure,
and I think all of it, like working with Emory
in India and and trying to stay in the accent
and trying to do right by Ryan, the pressure was
(21:14):
so on that, yeah, you you carry that in inevitably,
But for me, like, I really felt like it kept
me sharp because I think it could have been a
hindrance where you just get too overwhelmed and you start
and you know, falling apart, but I found it to
be really good. I mean, it's one of my favorite
experiences I've ever had them in. It was so great.
(21:36):
So Emory, let me kick this over to you. You know,
did a rig and had you tied and tethered into
the car so you could really lean out and did
that stunt and we did it in a practical sense
of using you and you were wonderful. It looks amazing. Again,
did that have an imprint or impressure on you? I
think even still now, that was like one of the
most extensive sort of stunt things that I've ever done.
(21:59):
You know, there were of times we didn't free driving
too and like, yeah, sure that I'm tied into something
in the car, but I was hanging out of a car,
you know what I mean. Just I was like thinking
about the movie and I was like, this is gonna
be really good for the movie. This is gonna make
the movie look good because I was scared, but I
was also really excited to kind of do it. And
it's sometimes those things link up. Like obviously, for Dylan
(22:23):
in the real life situation, getting his family into safety
is a much different circumstance than being an actor in
a movie trying to get a cool shot. Very few
people in the entire existence of humanity who've hung outside
of a car that's been chased by a cop and
shot at a cop. Obviously that was the real story
with the real Dylan. You had that experience obviously in
(22:45):
a play setting, shall we say, you know, in a
film setting, not reality. But you know, when you're experiencing that,
are you in some way channeling that real experience that
he might have had, or you thinking about a million
other things, like just hold on tight, I mean, you
want to be honest. I remember thinking like, I hope
this looks really cool. I can't remember. I remember thinking
(23:06):
like I read minded myself of watching movies like The
Last Action Hero or right, you know, I don't know,
like all these fun like action movies and though as
a kid, and I've never really done a proper action movie.
And this was my opportunity to have, you know, my
best Sylvester Stallowe moment. And I was like, I had
(23:28):
an adrenaline rush. You know, there's a lot of adrenaline
that kicks through you when you're gonna do something like that,
and it and it excited me, and I wanted to
look cool, so and I don't know, I look but
you know that was that was that was the experience
for me. Um that and being really scared. It was
I'm really scared, but I want to look cool. Wait. Wait,
(23:52):
that brings up a great a great point. There was
a moment where the three of you are in the
car right before the bank robbery and you were just
riffing on that whole thing about Okay, this is how
this is gonna go down, bang bang bang. You you said,
in Dylan's voice, if you will, let's make it just
like in the movies, and you put the masks on,
you go and you where did you come up with that?
Me and you and would talk about how Dylan was
(24:13):
a movie buff. That that was a big part, like
Dylan was a movie buff, Dylan new movies, Dylan loved movies.
I know. I said to you that I couldn't figure
out in the performance how much of it to make
it super authentic and how much of it was performative.
And then I think some of it was like you
(24:35):
know again, like I've never shot at bank robbery scene
and that you know, Bonnie and Clyde, it's my favorite
dog Day afternoon you know, these there are iconic bank
robbery scenes. And I think that there was a part
of me, like the movie buff for me and the
little boy, and me was really excited that we were
shooting this kind of this thing, you know, where what
(24:59):
we do is ma believe. And it's like when we're kids,
where you're playing. You know, I'll be the cop, you'll
be the robber. I'll be the robber, you'll be the cop,
you know, And and I think I just that just
kind of came over. These characters were aware that this
was gonna make the five o'clock news or the six
o'clock news. You know that that they had an awareness
(25:20):
of that and that in some ways that it was
performative what they were trying to do. You know, you absolutely,
let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back
at a moment. We again got lucky for the film
(25:45):
to get the chance to shoot in a real bank.
You know, obviously there's extras that are recreating being the
real customers of the bank and with the bank tellers.
What was that like for you and recreating that. I
always get nervous about how loud it's gonna be, because
you also have to look like because my characters anticipating
that Lee Grace comes in and unloads these shows, so
(26:06):
they know what's going on. And like we've said, like
our characters are used to being around gunfire. The way
that we shot that day, at least the way I
remember it, we shot like the practical stunt elements and
gunfire elements first and then shot my kind of little
speech up there. It just helped me feel comfortable. The
(26:27):
script opens with that scene, you know, So it was
definitely something that when I saw it on the schedule,
you start getting butterflies and and excited and nervous and
all the rest. And I think part of it too
is the whole make it look like the movies. I
think we actually shot that after we had finished all
the bank work, so there was kind of this I
(26:47):
there was this kind of ease for me that that
speech was out of the way and the gunfire was
out of the way and we could just shoot the
beginning bit. So India just swinging over to you on
that once they went on the run, once they robbed
a bank in some sort of control, this control that
they never had, and your character in particular comes barging
into the bank even though I will say that there
(27:07):
were a couple of lines that, even though I knew
that in post it would be fixed, my energy was
the adrenaline. I like Emory was saying, like the butterflies,
and the adrenaline was so for me anyway, was suddenly
kicked into high get like right before we started filming,
and so I started kind of not fully getting my
line out, and I remember that making me even more frantic. Um.
(27:30):
In regards to the control aspect for the characters, I think,
I mean, it must have just been like an alternate
reality for that moment where they kind of click into
you know, it's a false sense of control, and at
least the way that I approached it was. I think
in that moment she wasn't really she did wasn't really
(27:52):
cognizant of the of the reality of what she was
doing or what they were doing. And so it did
kind of Lincoln in a nice way because I was
actually having a blast watching up where you do the speech,
and then Sam had a gag with the shotgun and stuff,
so I was actually enjoying watching both of them. But um,
(28:12):
I think in a way as as the character as well,
she was with her brothers, and it was like it
was almost like playtime in a way. That was kind
of how I treated it. So as far as you know,
the energy of running in and doing all of that,
it was more just like an adrenaline, like playing a game,
and she wasn't really it was more like the that
And then she doesn't really realize the weight of what
(28:33):
she's doing fully, but she does, but she is. She
kind of that the excitement of it overtakes the logic
perfect and so everything to you, Um, what about the
character in particular attracted you you to playing the role? Um?
And and what was your impression of that. I remember
when I read this script, you know, I found Dylan
(28:56):
to be really charming, and when I spoke to him
on the phone, he didn't he he was very very charming. Um.
And there's also you know, there was kind of like
a kindness of the way they went about doing what
they did, and that you know, like in the scene
where we robbed the bank, Uh, Dylan's he's like this
(29:17):
elderly woman on the floor and he gets down eas
his man, do you want to do you want to
take a seat? You know, sit down? You know, And
there was something that that interests me, and that you know,
they come charging into this bank, guns drawn, everyone on
the ground, and then he sees, you know, an elderly
person and he's like, oh no, no, let's get this
person a chair, you know, like you know, and so
(29:39):
I found that to be kind of attractive. I remember
the phone call I remember the most was actually the
last phone call that I had with him, because it
was this crazy thing that happened. It was the night
we wrapped shooting and he called me, and I thought
that either Sean or Cassidy, that someone had informed him
(30:01):
that this was that that would be the last night,
but it was it was just happenstance. He just, I
don't know, he picked up the phone, you know, and
we had this really cool talk because in the beginning,
you know, I was learning from him and learning about him,
and in this end talk, you know, we were I
(30:23):
was just kind of talking to him about the movie
and how like the experience was really good, and how
I felt like everyone was really committed and that hopefully
we would have made him proud, you know, and stuff
like that, and we kind of had this nice sort
of goodbye that just happened really organically and I remember
like that because the phone calls leading up, they're like
(30:44):
mired with all this anxiety of like starting shooting, you know.
And what I remember and what I don't remember is
a little unclear, but I distinctly remember that last phone call,
like calling him, calling and being like, oh, hey, Sean
must have told you. He was like, no, Sean didn't
tell me anything. What's going on? And I was like, oh, dude,
we we wrapped, like we're we just finished. And so
(31:05):
that was a really that was a crazy experience, but
it was really nice. It was really nice to kind
of for me to let the character go, but again,
like there's that pressure, you know, we get to let
these things go and move on. It was strange. I
don't know if he felt it like he felt that
that this because I felt Dylan sort of leaving me,
(31:26):
you know, just in that actory way of whatever. And
we finished shooting right before Thanksgiving, and I know, I
was flying back to New York to see my family,
and I had been on the road for a while shooting,
and you know when you're shooting, especially something like this
(31:46):
where it's like it was me, India and Sam and
you of course and everyone else, but like there's a
couple other actors came in and came out, but like
it was me. India and Sam kind of lived together
for like five weeks, and so they had become like
a family to me during that time. And being away
from home and away from people and stuff. You know,
(32:10):
that time of year is always a shift for me.
It's like because you're getting in the holidays and you're remembering,
you know, the year that's passed and all that stuff.
So that that was what I remember the most about
all that time and stuff. So so India, again, not
to put you on the spot with that same question,
but do you have a recollection of that final uh
(32:30):
scene which is the goodbye and it was also the
goodbye to the experience that we had for production. If
I had to imagine what the three of them felt
when they were finally separated and it was over and
they were all being you know, going off on their
own and and you know, knowing that they're probably never
gonna you know that that that chapter of their lives
(32:51):
are are done, is done. Like when the arrests were
being filmed, when we were doing that, it was just
a very kind of empty fear knowing that I had
that I hadn't really had on a job before. It
wasn't really like we did it kind of wrapped for
me anyway, I kind of got very sensitive and I
felt kind of depressed after the job ended. Where it
(33:13):
was it was for the first time for me, it
was kind of hard to leave the character behind because
it was such a distinct vibe that the three of
us had and that that was there during filming, and
it was a very weighty energy. It was like it
I loved working with everyone, but I wouldn't call it
like a really happy shoot. There was a definite heaviness
(33:36):
that and I think all three of us were aware
of it at all times. And so Sam, same to you,
do you have a recollection of that at that point?
For me, like it was it has been a voyage
because I feel like his siblings were his heroes for sure,
but then he's got this perspective no family on the
(33:58):
way split, you know, definitely, Yeah, you have this really
wonderful moment there where it appears, And what we're trying
to portray is that you know, the cops essentially, you know,
catch up to you, and you know, we we took
a little artistic license here um again for time, and
they you know, ask you to put your weapon down
(34:19):
and they do the takedown as opposed to in real life.
It was actually a regular bystander that actually took Ryan down.
Believe or not saw the chase happening. I got involved.
That was a little more complex than we had the
chance to get into. Well, guys, listen, we I am
so grateful and thank you for letting me kind of
rush to the finish line at the end. But you, guys,
and I'm not just saying this, you were brilliant as always.
I'm not surprised in the least, and I just really
(34:41):
want to thank you for your time and anything else
that you want to throw in or we feel great
about this. Wanted to say that it really was a
very special experience, and thank you Sean for you know,
bringing me a board, because it was. It was a
really special experience. That's it. That's awesome. And and we
(35:01):
say the part about how you think I'm the most
handsome director you've ever worked with, member, we practiced that earlier.
Sean's the most director I ever worked I'm kidding, the
most handsomest handsome exact totally teasing, um Okay, thank you
guys so much. Please have a great rest of your evening.
Get to say everyone so I'm nice. All the best
(35:26):
to you guys. Thank you, thank you. This was absolutely
I couldn't be more pleased. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Bye.
Here Sean with podcast producer Joseph Morgan. You've known the
story for quite some time, even close to it. If
you had one thing that you want people to take
away from it, what would that be? But for these kids,
(35:48):
in particular, for every step they took in life, it's
like they took four steps backwards. It's like no one
ever truly dosed them with mercy and it it's isn't
it interesting? How just that one that one simple act
of kindness, of indulgence maybe for them, could have made
(36:09):
all the difference in the world. But yet, you know,
because you don't have a mailbox, we're gonna throw years
in jail. We're gonna we're gonna put you in the deepest,
darkest part of it. Yeah, you're gonna feel like you
you're absent hope, any kind of hope that that there's
any kind of light at the tunnel. And that is tragic,
(36:29):
That is tragedy. Writer director Sean McEwen had some final
thoughts on the Dougherty story. I think for me, the
one thing that I would want people to take away
from the story is being able to begin to understand
that which is not understandable when I first heard the story.
I think it's probably like most anybody who may have
(36:50):
started this podcast, it's like, oh, crazy bells and whistles,
the selaious belt and whistles. It's like a former stripper
now tooting an a K forty seven and he's crazy easy.
Two brothers and sister, Bonnie, Clyde and Clyde and there
you know anything, shots with cops and Robbie Banks. And
this is so unlike anything I've ever done or experienced,
or probably the majority of the population is very unique.
(37:13):
But the deeper you get into it, you realize how
much this is like all of our stories in some
way in a way, a couple of less and rights
and this could have been me. I mean, it's similar
in a way so many ways to again my background
and that kind of hurl upbringing assault of earth and
and you know their path led them this way, and
some of it was they're responsible for this, were their choices,
(37:36):
and some of it was truly circumstance. If you're over
eighteen years old and want to see pictures of Lee
Grace and Ryan Dougherty or find their addresses to write
them in prison, go to our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please listen and subscribe to
Crazy and Love, Katie Studio's latest true crime podcast. The
(38:00):
Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Decker and
me Courtney Armstrong, along with Beth Greenwald, Seaun McEwen, and
Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Tis.
Additional producing by Chris Graves and Jeff Shane. The Docritor
Gang is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
(38:23):
your favorite shows.
Welcome to The Dougherty Gang, a production of I Heart
Radio and Katie Studios. This is our final episode, episode
twelve Round Table. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime producer at
Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker. We've been working with producer
Beth Greenwald on The Dockerty Gang for months now. This
(00:24):
podcast is being made into a movie. Writer director Seawan
McEwan as the filmmaker who took on the story of
the Doughertys. He first met the siblings eight years ago,
and today he sits down with the film's lead actors,
India Eisley who plays Lee Grace, Emery Cohen who plays Dylan,
(00:44):
and Sam Strike who plays Ryan. They talk about their
roles in the film and the process of making the movie.
Sean also spoke with podcast executive producer Joseph Morgan India
Ladies for So, first of all, how did you find
out about the movie? When did you read the script
and what was your initial reaction to the story. The
(01:08):
script was just sent to me like any other appointment,
any other directors meeting, and I had not heard of
the story before I got the script. So in the
email package, I first I read the article, and then
I read the script and what was your impression of
the article? When I read the article, it was a
very interesting read, especially because I hadn't heard of the
story at all. I found it more heartbreaking than anything,
(01:30):
especially that the extremely harsh sentencing that they that they
were given. And as far as attracting me to the project,
what attracted me? And when I heard that Sam and
Emory were on board, I was found to both of
their work Sound from mind Hunter, Emory from the OA,
and he had worked with some that I know, and
so I wanted to work with them, and you know,
(01:52):
it was just honestly, the whole thing appealed to me.
Oh so, Emory, I'm gonna shift it over to you
and ask you the same. How did you find out
about the movie? Yeah? I mean, like India, I didn't
know about the story. And to me, it was like
kind of a story about family and I found that
to be that like struck me, you know, because it's
(02:12):
hard to imagine doing certain things, but then you put
yourself in a scenario of what you would need to
do to you know, protect your family or keep your
family safe, and that opened up a world of imagination
that's amazing. So what is it about the real life
character of Ryan that attracted you to the role and
did you feel like you could relate with Ryan? Um?
(02:38):
I was reading one Ryan in the script, but then
talking to Ryan, I was getting quite different Ryan, and
I felt overwhelmed already and I was up. I was
having a crisis in the in the few days leading
up to shooting, like who is this guy? Specifically because
it all happened quite quickly for being cost to get
in to getting into the States. What was attractive to
me was that his perception of himself. I think it
(03:00):
was quite different from how other people perceived them and
for me, that helped create like an arc from start
to finish. Yeah, that's great. So also I'll swing this
over to UH to India the same thing. What is
it about the real life character and the character that
attracted you to the role? For me, I just without
(03:20):
sounding you know, contrived or anything. When I work, I
tend to just focus on the energy before I focus
on details. And you know, like I didn't really want
to judge her on the script or on the article,
and I really was waiting for that first phone call
with her, and then I kind of took it from
(03:43):
there perfect and so everything to you. Well, I mean
at first, there was a lot that was really foreign
to me. You know, like I'm an only child, I'm
from New York City and this is a story about
the oldest brother the family trying to kind of be
like the father of that family. But I did relate to,
(04:06):
Like I remember, I know, like with my friends at times,
I have this very protective quality about two of my
best best friends in particular, where like if something happened,
they're both actors, and like, if something happens to them
or it goes wrong with them, like I immediately want
to try to like save them. And I think Dylan,
he's really trying to save the people he loves in
(04:29):
this kind of way, almost like a martyr, you know,
like you would sacrifice himself for his family. So Sam, here,
you read the script, there's this Ryan character hopefully that's
on the page to some extent. Then you connect with
him in real life, and then you of course kind
of put your own dynamic on it as well. Yeah.
I remember we were all out for lunch Mayeve memory
(04:50):
in India, and you got up for a second and
you came back to the table and handed me the phone.
I'm like, Ryan's Ryan, and I was I wasn't expecting that,
and oh no, like drop it on me, and I
met I've met all of you guys in an American
accent because I was trying to maintain it. So I
I've got to speak to this guy that I'm playing
(05:13):
as a brit pretending to be American, like I'm waiting
for him to for the holes to start showing. And
I was really flustered. And he got say Sam Hayd
And I said, I'm I'm a good brand. How are
you doing? And he says, I'm sitting in jail. How
do you think I'm doing? And it was I didn't
know how to respond to that, you know, his perception
of himself versus I think his brothers and sister's perception
(05:37):
of him too. Um, because I spoke to Emory in
India and like, you know, I what did Dylan and
Lee Grace say to you? And tried to see if
the story is matched. Um, and Ryan had said to
me in a matter of words that you know, he
felt he was the brains of the operation. And to me,
from what I had pieced together, it seems like Dylan
(06:00):
was and Ryan to me, Ryan really really looked up
to so India. You know, we talked about I don't
want to call the skill. It's not a skill obviously,
but kind of in that category of certain things you
have to take on something that has no skills. Yeah,
I went very talented there. But there is you know,
it's public record and also something that Lee Grace has
(06:23):
openly shared both in her interviews and as most of
us spoken to her about her drug use, and there
is drug use in the film. That character has her
own relationship to drugs. Shall we say, what does that
mean to you as an actor? Did that come into
play with any of your sort of being cognizant of
the reality of etcetera. That was a big, big part
(06:45):
of every aspect of how I played her because she
is she you know, even on the phone, she is
she is very much an addict, like she has that
kind of personality and that really does bleed into every
every aspect of someone's life. And you know, I think
it all without getting too introspective and boring, it all
(07:05):
does kind of go back to her childhood and feeling
deprived of what she she needs. That extra kick there
was definitely a kind of a frenetic kind of place
that she was in where it was never enough. That's
kind of what what I picked up on. And that
was something that I didn't get until I spoke to
her on the phone, that constant unrest that she always has,
(07:27):
like she can't relax, she's incapable of relaxing, even when
she thinks she is. I'm not glorifying it or anything,
but I found it a very very helpful hook in
playing her. It's a direct line to where she's damaged.
Very well. Put Yeah, there was, wasn't There's always this
underlying sadness and even in real life too, I mean, yeah,
(07:48):
that was the main thing I got from her. Like
she'd be on a high and too'd be talking and
stuff and she and you know, and so excited about something.
She was like, yeah, man, it was it was fucking great.
No, no no, no, and so and suddenly there'd be a
quite a silence with her, but she just go and
it was like those silences really spoke volumes to what
(08:09):
was going on with her as a human being, in
the type of person she had become become. That's so great,
Thank you very well. Put so Embery from an audience
perspective at the docrites as being these anti heroes. You know,
how do you view them? Do you view them as
anti heroes? You view Dylan is that you know, he's
a hero, his story, you know what I mean, he's
(08:29):
a rebel, which I guess in from society's terms to
make him an anti hero. I found him, you know,
just it's just I don't know if this answer is
the question, but I know that when I was creating Dylan,
I was very aware that this for me, a lot
of the journey was him wanting to be his brother
(08:50):
and sister's hero and saving them from trauma, as India
says that it already happened, that he couldn't have saved
them from that he wasn't in the position to save
them from when they were kids, and him recognizing that
that he couldn't be their hero and that it wasn't
necessarily his responsibility and trying to find an acceptance of
(09:14):
that that. I saw that as kind of a whatever
you call it arc or whatever. The character in a
lot of ways for his journey is is him breaking,
is this facade of him being able to be this
hero breaking, cracking and breaking down, you know, in the
failure of his plan for for him, like achieving the
(09:34):
goal of getting out of the bank probberty and all
that and getting his his family to safety. You know,
was sort of a breakdown on this facade of himself
as this hero. I think ever he hit the nile
on the head. I think really is perspective, isn't it. Yeah,
I really think that's it. It's it's perspective in the
(09:56):
sense that they are the heroes of their own story
and they feel that they have strong enough motive too
to take such a big step and make the decision
that they made too, you know, go on the run.
I think it seems sorrh it, doesn't it to do
things for your family, Like Emery said, Dylan was doing
(10:17):
it for Lee, Grace and Ryan, and I think Ryan
was doing it for for his kid too. My perspective
of it is that I think their hands were forced
slightly considering their situation. If you're gonna there's a there's
(10:39):
a risk and there's a reward, you know, and the
reward would have been that they would have made it,
and the risk is that they didn't and they didn't. Yeah,
you know, so India any take without for you. Also,
in REGARDSS toly Grace, I think, you know, the entire
situation kind of which sounds just kind of brought up
a good point is that you know, Dylan was doing
(11:02):
it for his siblings, Ryan, he was doing it for
you know, his you know, his lady and his baby.
And I think that that was a big part of
the emptiness that I mentioned is Lee Grace didn't feel
like she really had anything. There wasn't really like a
singular thing that she was living for at that point
other than you know, her drugs and you know, to
(11:24):
just keep keep going, keep moving forward and having fun.
At times, she didn't have an emotional, you know, thing
to cling onto. So there's always a lost aspect with her.
And so I think she went throughout this, throughout this
entire thing, really with no solid trajectory. There was no
solidity to what she was doing. She was very much
(11:45):
just loved her brothers and was just like, fine, fuck it,
we'll do it. I don't view it as good or bad.
I think they were three human beings that were born
into a very very unfortunate set of circumstances. Is there
anything that you can recollect about your character that really
helped you understand them or to be able to play them.
(12:07):
I grew up around that kind of environment, more like
blue collar, and there are certain things that I feel
do translate across between the two countries, you know. And yeah,
little things like the smoking, and it changes the way
you walk and save there's shots of us driving. There's
(12:28):
just some shots of us driving in the car, like
you can be driving or you can be driving and smoking.
And it, to me, does it changes things a little
bit because you tend to smoke when your board sometimes
or to pass the time, and you know, I'm time
was running out for them. I don't know what I'm
trying to say here, but you know what makes sense
(12:51):
for me. I didn't have smoking as a as a thing,
but like as a physical thing to use. I did
pick up the phone calls though that she those silences
that I mentioned, I just kind of you know, when
you when you bring in the drugs, um, because she
loved pills. That was her big thing. And um, as
(13:14):
far as the behavioral thing, I imagined that her eyes
would always be kind of darting because she's always looking
for something, so like there's always something that she doesn't have.
And so whether it's pills or a person or you
know that there's always something that she's just like outwardly
looking for. She's it's that unrest. So, yeah, Dylan explained
(13:39):
his life to me in prison sentences and pro violations
and arrests, you know, like it was like his I
think he's the first thing he say, he was like, well,
the first time I got picked up, you know. And
and so he didn't explain his life to me in
the way that you know, what is child was like
(14:01):
this or that he explained it to me in like
prison sentences and things like that. And I know that
for me, he gave me this awareness that there was
these two worlds going on for him. There was this
outside world and there was the inside world, where there
was the world on parole and the world off parole.
And I didn't know that world, you know, And and
(14:22):
I remember being very aware of that. But it didn't
start until his first arrest. There is first parole violation.
We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be
back in a moment. Ryan's character is really seems to
(14:45):
be motivated by the love of his son. He was
at the time. This was all happening in their flight.
You know, his girlfriend at the time, Amber, who he
called his wife, and was heavily pregnant, and there was that.
Did the real Ryan as I call him, did he
mention his son? That all? Was that every part of
your conversations? And also do you ever mention anything about
his own upbringing? Again, it was like quite a long
(15:06):
time ago now, so I I don't know how much
I actually remembering or how much I and potentially not
making up. But you know that happens, he said. I
got the impression from him that him and leg Grace
were especially close. I don't know if it's that was
a maternal thing he felt. I got the impression it
was maybe a kind of a maternal thing, and about
(15:28):
is some I do remember him saying something that really
struck me, but I can't remember how we said it,
But it was the way in which he said it
that was so effective. It was something It was words
to the effect of, I I feel so guilty that
I left my kid without a dad, you know, like
(15:51):
he uh, the main thing I could really feel to
regret that that he wasn't there to raise his kid.
I don't know how he said it, to me, but
I remember that being in the message and I found
out really upsetting. You know, Oh, absolutely, well, that's that's again,
that's very touching and pactful. You've got the chaos of
the story throughout the movie, and then the chaos at
(16:13):
the end with the with like a shootout essentially between
the cops. He will be over their heads. The whole
thing has been with little bits of rest by chaos,
And I don't know personally if that's how it had
played out in real life, how cognizant he would have
been of actually getting gone down, because you think of
(16:34):
all the other really risky stuff that they've done along
the way. It's like in for we say in England,
like him for a penny, in for a pound, like
you've you've gotten this far and somehow you are still
being I think that his legs carried him. I don't
think he had any saying a matter. So I've got
to get back, you know, very very well, put India,
(16:55):
Can you expand on anything else that really spoke to
you about once you did connect with her in real life?
You know, again, I hate to sound like a broken record,
but it really was just her. Her personality was such
a strong one. I mean, she's such a spitfire. She
just came through the phone and immediately I just loved her,
Like it was just like I'm like, gosh, she's a blast.
(17:15):
There's an avoidant quality to her that I found was
very interesting where she'll just and I think a lot
of people who have experienced trauma have this where they'll
just say it like very matter of fact ly, you
know what's happened to them and did details that have
happened in their lives, and they're very kind of heavy
horrowing things. And like she would say something to me
(17:37):
and like a really personal thing and I'd be like, wait, wait,
wait what was that? What was that? And she she said,
oh yeah and so and then she just like me
say it again, and I was like okay, and inside
and like that's a really upsetting thing, Like that's a
really I don't really want to say it just out
of respect to her, but just little things like that
where it was more her demeanor towards these hardships that
(18:00):
happened to her and how she handled it, and she
was very kind of resilient in her way. So that's great. Um,
I'm gonna embarrass you, Sam, please forgive me as I recall.
So here's the context and step. So, Ryan in particular
is known to be and it's someone on public record
quite the actual driver, like a very good driver, and
was the driver for this. I think you know where
(18:20):
I'm going with this. Can you expand on that a bit, um,
what that was to you and what was unique about
that for you in particular? Well, I found out that
I was I was going to get to do the movie,
and I was really excited. And then a few days
later you and one of the producer's FaceTime and they're like,
so you can drive right, and I'm like, long, oh,
Ryan's the gataway driver. Oh. But luckily once we got
(18:44):
to the South, our stunt coordinator took me out in
a closed parking lot and gave me the basics, gave
me to run down on how to drive, and I
think we got through it okay, you know, um, And
what I don't know what I really appreciated is, uh,
the Emory and India were both extremely patient with me.
(19:05):
I've got these two actors in the car like pressure
on man, and I think Emory maybe had similar experiences
to me in the past and memory you had some
sort of mantra. There was something happened when we were
driving and I, as Dylan, just said something like slow
and steady or common rely and it I know what
(19:26):
Sam's talking about, because like, you booked this job and
you're like excited and you're ready to go, and you
don't even read that stuff like Ryan's gotten or whatever. Yeah,
where's my dialogue? Where's where? Where do I get to
say stuff? And then all of a sudden you're there
and you're like, oh fuck, I have to like do this.
So I knew exactly what he was going through and
(19:48):
he was great. Man. He killed it with with all
this stuff, especially with the driving. Yeah. Wait so so
so just to say weren't hit anything, I've hit things
like not like cars and like and you know I've
done it. You know that's great anything. Let me just
add let me just add to that. There was one
(20:10):
day when we were filming in there in the used
car lot and I was supposed to reverse into the
parking spot, but the car wasn't driving, and the cameras
right in front of me and stepped on the accelerator.
It's gone forward a break. It's so good, it's so good.
(20:31):
So that's just I love hearing this stuff. It's great.
We did ask you that. It was like, hey, you know,
obviously Sam's probably used to driving on the other side
the road. We're just gonna make sure it's comfortable. And
then yes, we did find out that you want a
driver like you didn't drive, so you had to pick
up that skill with us, and you did a wonderful
job with it. Like, I've never played a real person
that hadn't passed. I played a real person but he
(20:51):
died in like, so it's really strange to play a
real person that was still alive and is going to
have an opinion on this, you know, and it's his
life and it's going to people are to say this
and form their own opinions. There's a lot of pressure,
and I think all of it, like working with Emory
in India and and trying to stay in the accent
and trying to do right by Ryan, the pressure was
(21:14):
so on that, yeah, you you carry that in inevitably,
But for me, like, I really felt like it kept
me sharp because I think it could have been a
hindrance where you just get too overwhelmed and you start
and you know, falling apart, but I found it to
be really good. I mean, it's one of my favorite
experiences I've ever had them in. It was so great.
(21:36):
So Emory, let me kick this over to you. You know,
did a rig and had you tied and tethered into
the car so you could really lean out and did
that stunt and we did it in a practical sense
of using you and you were wonderful. It looks amazing. Again,
did that have an imprint or impressure on you? I
think even still now, that was like one of the
most extensive sort of stunt things that I've ever done.
(21:59):
You know, there were of times we didn't free driving
too and like, yeah, sure that I'm tied into something
in the car, but I was hanging out of a car,
you know what I mean. Just I was like thinking
about the movie and I was like, this is gonna
be really good for the movie. This is gonna make
the movie look good because I was scared, but I
was also really excited to kind of do it. And
it's sometimes those things link up. Like obviously, for Dylan
(22:23):
in the real life situation, getting his family into safety
is a much different circumstance than being an actor in
a movie trying to get a cool shot. Very few
people in the entire existence of humanity who've hung outside
of a car that's been chased by a cop and
shot at a cop. Obviously that was the real story
with the real Dylan. You had that experience obviously in
(22:45):
a play setting, shall we say, you know, in a
film setting, not reality. But you know, when you're experiencing that,
are you in some way channeling that real experience that
he might have had, or you thinking about a million
other things, like just hold on tight, I mean, you
want to be honest. I remember thinking like, I hope
this looks really cool. I can't remember. I remember thinking
(23:06):
like I read minded myself of watching movies like The
Last Action Hero or right, you know, I don't know,
like all these fun like action movies and though as
a kid, and I've never really done a proper action movie.
And this was my opportunity to have, you know, my
best Sylvester Stallowe moment. And I was like, I had
(23:28):
an adrenaline rush. You know, there's a lot of adrenaline
that kicks through you when you're gonna do something like that,
and it and it excited me, and I wanted to
look cool, so and I don't know, I look but
you know that was that was that was the experience
for me. Um that and being really scared. It was
I'm really scared, but I want to look cool. Wait. Wait,
(23:52):
that brings up a great a great point. There was
a moment where the three of you are in the
car right before the bank robbery and you were just
riffing on that whole thing about Okay, this is how
this is gonna go down, bang bang bang. You you said,
in Dylan's voice, if you will, let's make it just
like in the movies, and you put the masks on,
you go and you where did you come up with that?
Me and you and would talk about how Dylan was
(24:13):
a movie buff. That that was a big part, like
Dylan was a movie buff, Dylan new movies, Dylan loved movies.
I know. I said to you that I couldn't figure
out in the performance how much of it to make
it super authentic and how much of it was performative.
And then I think some of it was like you
(24:35):
know again, like I've never shot at bank robbery scene
and that you know, Bonnie and Clyde, it's my favorite
dog Day afternoon you know, these there are iconic bank
robbery scenes. And I think that there was a part
of me, like the movie buff for me and the
little boy, and me was really excited that we were
shooting this kind of this thing, you know, where what
(24:59):
we do is ma believe. And it's like when we're kids,
where you're playing. You know, I'll be the cop, you'll
be the robber. I'll be the robber, you'll be the cop,
you know, And and I think I just that just
kind of came over. These characters were aware that this
was gonna make the five o'clock news or the six
o'clock news. You know that that they had an awareness
(25:20):
of that and that in some ways that it was
performative what they were trying to do. You know, you absolutely,
let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back
at a moment. We again got lucky for the film
(25:45):
to get the chance to shoot in a real bank.
You know, obviously there's extras that are recreating being the
real customers of the bank and with the bank tellers.
What was that like for you and recreating that. I
always get nervous about how loud it's gonna be, because
you also have to look like because my characters anticipating
that Lee Grace comes in and unloads these shows, so
(26:06):
they know what's going on. And like we've said, like
our characters are used to being around gunfire. The way
that we shot that day, at least the way I
remember it, we shot like the practical stunt elements and
gunfire elements first and then shot my kind of little
speech up there. It just helped me feel comfortable. The
(26:27):
script opens with that scene, you know, So it was
definitely something that when I saw it on the schedule,
you start getting butterflies and and excited and nervous and
all the rest. And I think part of it too
is the whole make it look like the movies. I
think we actually shot that after we had finished all
the bank work, so there was kind of this I
(26:47):
there was this kind of ease for me that that
speech was out of the way and the gunfire was
out of the way and we could just shoot the
beginning bit. So India just swinging over to you on
that once they went on the run, once they robbed
a bank in some sort of control, this control that
they never had, and your character in particular comes barging
into the bank even though I will say that there
(27:07):
were a couple of lines that, even though I knew
that in post it would be fixed, my energy was
the adrenaline. I like Emory was saying, like the butterflies,
and the adrenaline was so for me anyway, was suddenly
kicked into high get like right before we started filming,
and so I started kind of not fully getting my
line out, and I remember that making me even more frantic. Um.
(27:30):
In regards to the control aspect for the characters, I think,
I mean, it must have just been like an alternate
reality for that moment where they kind of click into
you know, it's a false sense of control, and at
least the way that I approached it was. I think
in that moment she wasn't really she did wasn't really
(27:52):
cognizant of the of the reality of what she was
doing or what they were doing. And so it did
kind of Lincoln in a nice way because I was
actually having a blast watching up where you do the speech,
and then Sam had a gag with the shotgun and stuff,
so I was actually enjoying watching both of them. But um,
(28:12):
I think in a way as as the character as well,
she was with her brothers, and it was like it
was almost like playtime in a way. That was kind
of how I treated it. So as far as you know,
the energy of running in and doing all of that,
it was more just like an adrenaline, like playing a game,
and she wasn't really it was more like the that
And then she doesn't really realize the weight of what
(28:33):
she's doing fully, but she does, but she is. She
kind of that the excitement of it overtakes the logic
perfect and so everything to you, Um, what about the
character in particular attracted you you to playing the role? Um?
And and what was your impression of that. I remember
when I read this script, you know, I found Dylan
(28:56):
to be really charming, and when I spoke to him
on the phone, he didn't he he was very very charming. Um.
And there's also you know, there was kind of like
a kindness of the way they went about doing what
they did, and that you know, like in the scene
where we robbed the bank, Uh, Dylan's he's like this
(29:17):
elderly woman on the floor and he gets down eas
his man, do you want to do you want to
take a seat? You know, sit down? You know, And
there was something that that interests me, and that you know,
they come charging into this bank, guns drawn, everyone on
the ground, and then he sees, you know, an elderly
person and he's like, oh no, no, let's get this
person a chair, you know, like you know, and so
(29:39):
I found that to be kind of attractive. I remember
the phone call I remember the most was actually the
last phone call that I had with him, because it
was this crazy thing that happened. It was the night
we wrapped shooting and he called me, and I thought
that either Sean or Cassidy, that someone had informed him
(30:01):
that this was that that would be the last night,
but it was it was just happenstance. He just, I
don't know, he picked up the phone, you know, and
we had this really cool talk because in the beginning,
you know, I was learning from him and learning about him,
and in this end talk, you know, we were I
(30:23):
was just kind of talking to him about the movie
and how like the experience was really good, and how
I felt like everyone was really committed and that hopefully
we would have made him proud, you know, and stuff
like that, and we kind of had this nice sort
of goodbye that just happened really organically and I remember
like that because the phone calls leading up, they're like
(30:44):
mired with all this anxiety of like starting shooting, you know.
And what I remember and what I don't remember is
a little unclear, but I distinctly remember that last phone call,
like calling him, calling and being like, oh, hey, Sean
must have told you. He was like, no, Sean didn't
tell me anything. What's going on? And I was like, oh, dude,
we we wrapped, like we're we just finished. And so
(31:05):
that was a really that was a crazy experience, but
it was really nice. It was really nice to kind
of for me to let the character go, but again,
like there's that pressure, you know, we get to let
these things go and move on. It was strange. I
don't know if he felt it like he felt that
that this because I felt Dylan sort of leaving me,
(31:26):
you know, just in that actory way of whatever. And
we finished shooting right before Thanksgiving, and I know, I
was flying back to New York to see my family,
and I had been on the road for a while shooting,
and you know when you're shooting, especially something like this
(31:46):
where it's like it was me, India and Sam and
you of course and everyone else, but like there's a
couple other actors came in and came out, but like
it was me. India and Sam kind of lived together
for like five weeks, and so they had become like
a family to me during that time. And being away
from home and away from people and stuff. You know,
(32:10):
that time of year is always a shift for me.
It's like because you're getting in the holidays and you're remembering,
you know, the year that's passed and all that stuff.
So that that was what I remember the most about
all that time and stuff. So so India, again, not
to put you on the spot with that same question,
but do you have a recollection of that final uh
(32:30):
scene which is the goodbye and it was also the
goodbye to the experience that we had for production. If
I had to imagine what the three of them felt
when they were finally separated and it was over and
they were all being you know, going off on their
own and and you know, knowing that they're probably never
gonna you know that that that chapter of their lives
(32:51):
are are done, is done. Like when the arrests were
being filmed, when we were doing that, it was just
a very kind of empty fear knowing that I had
that I hadn't really had on a job before. It
wasn't really like we did it kind of wrapped for
me anyway, I kind of got very sensitive and I
felt kind of depressed after the job ended. Where it
(33:13):
was it was for the first time for me, it
was kind of hard to leave the character behind because
it was such a distinct vibe that the three of
us had and that that was there during filming, and
it was a very weighty energy. It was like it
I loved working with everyone, but I wouldn't call it
like a really happy shoot. There was a definite heaviness
(33:36):
that and I think all three of us were aware
of it at all times. And so Sam, same to you,
do you have a recollection of that at that point?
For me, like it was it has been a voyage
because I feel like his siblings were his heroes for sure,
but then he's got this perspective no family on the
(33:58):
way split, you know, definitely, Yeah, you have this really
wonderful moment there where it appears, And what we're trying
to portray is that you know, the cops essentially, you know,
catch up to you, and you know, we we took
a little artistic license here um again for time, and
they you know, ask you to put your weapon down
(34:19):
and they do the takedown as opposed to in real life.
It was actually a regular bystander that actually took Ryan down.
Believe or not saw the chase happening. I got involved.
That was a little more complex than we had the
chance to get into. Well, guys, listen, we I am
so grateful and thank you for letting me kind of
rush to the finish line at the end. But you, guys,
and I'm not just saying this, you were brilliant as always.
I'm not surprised in the least, and I just really
(34:41):
want to thank you for your time and anything else
that you want to throw in or we feel great
about this. Wanted to say that it really was a
very special experience, and thank you Sean for you know,
bringing me a board, because it was. It was a
really special experience. That's it. That's awesome. And and we
(35:01):
say the part about how you think I'm the most
handsome director you've ever worked with, member, we practiced that earlier.
Sean's the most director I ever worked I'm kidding, the
most handsomest handsome exact totally teasing, um Okay, thank you
guys so much. Please have a great rest of your evening.
Get to say everyone so I'm nice. All the best
(35:26):
to you guys. Thank you, thank you. This was absolutely
I couldn't be more pleased. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Bye.
Here Sean with podcast producer Joseph Morgan. You've known the
story for quite some time, even close to it. If
you had one thing that you want people to take
away from it, what would that be? But for these kids,
(35:48):
in particular, for every step they took in life, it's
like they took four steps backwards. It's like no one
ever truly dosed them with mercy and it it's isn't
it interesting? How just that one that one simple act
of kindness, of indulgence maybe for them, could have made
(36:09):
all the difference in the world. But yet, you know,
because you don't have a mailbox, we're gonna throw years
in jail. We're gonna we're gonna put you in the deepest,
darkest part of it. Yeah, you're gonna feel like you
you're absent hope, any kind of hope that that there's
any kind of light at the tunnel. And that is tragic,
(36:29):
That is tragedy. Writer director Sean McEwen had some final
thoughts on the Dougherty story. I think for me, the
one thing that I would want people to take away
from the story is being able to begin to understand
that which is not understandable when I first heard the story.
I think it's probably like most anybody who may have
(36:50):
started this podcast, it's like, oh, crazy bells and whistles,
the selaious belt and whistles. It's like a former stripper
now tooting an a K forty seven and he's crazy easy.
Two brothers and sister, Bonnie, Clyde and Clyde and there
you know anything, shots with cops and Robbie Banks. And
this is so unlike anything I've ever done or experienced,
or probably the majority of the population is very unique.
(37:13):
But the deeper you get into it, you realize how
much this is like all of our stories in some
way in a way, a couple of less and rights
and this could have been me. I mean, it's similar
in a way so many ways to again my background
and that kind of hurl upbringing assault of earth and
and you know their path led them this way, and
some of it was they're responsible for this, were their choices,
(37:36):
and some of it was truly circumstance. If you're over
eighteen years old and want to see pictures of Lee
Grace and Ryan Dougherty or find their addresses to write
them in prison, go to our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please listen and subscribe to
Crazy and Love, Katie Studio's latest true crime podcast. The
(38:00):
Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Decker and
me Courtney Armstrong, along with Beth Greenwald, Seaun McEwen, and
Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Tis.
Additional producing by Chris Graves and Jeff Shane. The Docritor
Gang is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
(38:23):
your favorite shows.
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