February 23, 2021 • 28 mins
In an often-overlooked story, the 2008 US Men's Olympic basketball team made magic. Led by two NBA superstars, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James (who many thought couldn't play together) and coached by Mike Krzyzewski (a “college guy” many first dismissed as unable to handle pro players) the US overcame the stifling embarrassment of their 2004 showing and won a decisive gold victory in 2008. Hosts Jack McCallum and J.A Adande begin a fascinating exploration of how the 2008 "Redeem Team" also succeeded in much more: it not only made the tough and fundamental move of changing a culture that had grown toxic in the years following the Dream Team’s world conquest in 1992 but also marked an historical inflection point in NBA basketball that set the stage for everything — and every superstar player — that has come since. Hear a revealing interview with current Portland Trailblazer and former Redeem Teamer, Carmelo Anthony, as well as interviews with Redeem Teamer and now assistant coach for the LA Lakers, Jason Kidd, the one and only Phil Jackson of numerous Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers NBA victories, and Coach K himself, Mike Krzyzewski.
FROM THE EPISODE:
JACK MCCALLUM: I’m Jack McCallum, who brought you The Dream Team Tapes podcast and this is its worthy sequel. The story of The Redeem Team — sometimes overlooked — is, on its own, in my opinion, every bit as intriguing as the Dream Team that proceeded them by 16 years. One of the things I've found out by doing The Dream Team Tapes is how eager these guys were to talk about it. For even guys that were All-Stars, Hall of Famers, won championships, it was a really special time in their lives. Which is why I was able to get inside the heads of players like Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson.
In the same way, The Redeem Team defines a lot of these guys' careers. In the coming weeks you're going to be hearing from the players, the coaches, and the executives who were so eager to share their thoughts on what was an important part in their lives. So here's a quick snapshot of some of those voices you'll be hearing:
ROBERT HORRY: We understood the pecking order. We knew Kobe and LeBron were going to shoot the ball or, more or less, Kobe was going to shoot the ball.
JASON KIDD: I’ve never said this, but I remember sitting there and watching those guys. When we were in harmony, you can't play better than this
COACH K: The most pressure moment I've ever had as a coach was the gold medal game with eight minutes to go.
JACK MCCALLUM: The year is 2008: The Games of the 29th Olympiad. An American basketball team — an American basketball program, really — bent on turning around its diminished fortunes, which included a 6th place finish in the 2002 World Championships and even worse, a mere Bronze Medal in the 2004 Olympics in Athens. The United States team was on a mission. There was magic in the air.
Actually there was smog in the air. Hey, we're in Beijing after all, but this 2008 team turned out to be a breath of fresh air for our Olympic program. But it wasn't easy.
I'll be joined by J.A. Adande, who himself was heard recently talking about a Dream Teamer, somebody named Michael Jordan, in the terrific, “Beyond the Last Dance” that he did with B.J. Armstrong, a former teammate of Jordan's...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Redeem Team is the production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here we don't represent
our country, especially especial Lebron James. We look for an
(00:47):
opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being the
best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is
as it is right. We're the rest team in the world.
We're the best team in the world. We put Basketball
America basketball wheat, which is at the top. M Hello
(01:20):
and welcome to Kobe, Lebron and the Redeemed Team. This
is episode one which we're calling on top of the world.
I'm Jack McCallum who brought you the Dream Team tapes,
and this is its worthy sequel. See the story of
the Redeem Team, sometimes overlooked, is in its on its own.
(01:42):
In my opinion, every bit is intriguing as a dream
Team that preceded them by sixteen years. And one of
the things I found out by doing the Dream Team
tapes is how eager these guys were to talk about it.
For even guys that were all Stars, Hall of Famers,
one Champ being Chips, it was a really special time
(02:03):
in their lives, which is why I was able to
get inside the heads of players like Michael Jordan's, Larry
Bird and Magic Johnson. And in the same way, the
Redeemed Team defines a lot of these guys career And
in the coming weeks, you're gonna be hearing from the players,
the coaches, and the executives who were so eager to
(02:24):
share their thoughts on what was an important part in
their lives. So here's a quick snapshot, but some of
those voices you'll be hearing. We all understood the pecking order.
We knew Kobe and Lebron, uh, we're gonna shoot the ball,
or that you know, more or less Kobe was going
to shoot the ball. I've never said this, but I
remember sitting there watching those guys when we were in harmony.
(02:48):
You can't play better than this. The most pressure moment
I've ever had as a coach was the gold medal
game with eight minutes to go. The year is two
thousand and eight. The games of the twenty nine Olympiad
an American basketball team, an American basketball program really bent
(03:08):
on turning around its diminished fortunes, which included a sixth
place finished in the two thousand two World Championships and
even worse, a mere bronze medal in the two thousand
four Olympics. And assets, the United States team was on
a mission. There was magic in the air. Actually there
was smog in the air. Hey, we're in Beijing after all.
(03:31):
But this two thousand and eight team turned out to
be a breath of fresh air for our Olympic program.
But it wasn't easy. They'll be joined by j Addande,
who himself was heard recently talking about a dream teamer
somebody named Jordan's in the terrific Beyond the last dance
(03:53):
that he did with b J Armstrong, a former teammate
of Jordan's j A take it away, hey, Jack. I'll
be focusing on the Kobe Bryant aspect of this because
it's so fascinating to me both the impact that Kobe
had on this team and that this team and that
this experience had on Kobe. And the reason I'm focused
on Kope so much is that I was in Los
(04:14):
Angeles working at the l A Times and then ESPN
for nineteen of Kobe's twenty seasons with the Los Angeles Lakers.
So we'll be talking to his teammates and his coach,
Phil Jackson, getting perspective on Kobe in addition to how
he fit into this two thousand and eight Olympic team,
which wasn't that easy, just like it wasn't always that
easy for him to fit into the Los Angeles Lakers.
We got filled to come out of hiding for this
(04:36):
j Yeah, that was all you, jack That was a
good get, as they say in the media business. But
through the power of email and some persistence on your part,
we were able to get Phil Jackson, you don't really
hear from very often these days. We had about an
hour with Phil talking about the ark of his time
with Kobe, and that was a fascinating discussion. We'll be
(04:57):
hearing a little bit of that today and plenty more
as we go through this podcast series, and I think
you're gonna find yourself immersed in this, as both of
us were in this project. And so we'll hear about
the redemptive arts of Kobe and the players like Lebron
James and Carmelo Anthony who are on the two thousand
four Olympic team, and they got the chance to rectify
that disappointing Bron's medland Athens. And it's also about to
(05:19):
turnaround the USA basketball. It was led by Jerry Colangelo
and how he got the players to buy into a
concept that was bigger than even the biggest names in
the NBA, and how Mike Schoki got these players to
listen to a college coach, thanks in part to a
few time left bombs. And along the way we'll learn
things like Lebron's preferred drink and which player almost got
(05:41):
left behind on a night out in Macau, China. And
it all led to this glorious golden moment that Mike
Shachofsky described. That's as much pressure as any of the
teams have had during that time. And what a joyous
celebration afterwards. So moment in time that you know, some
(06:02):
of the greatest players in the history of our game
could share together. I can't explain the moment. And our
guys were so reverent they looked so good, and they
got gold medals around and the national anthems playing and
their flags raised above all the others and incredible, and
so Jack. The moment that I got into this team
was when they had that Nike commercial with them running
(06:24):
around the court and working out to the Marvin gaybers
into the Star Spangled banner. And we'll hear from Coach
k and some of the players about how much they
really got into that song. And he utilized that anthem
almost every time that they were together to help motivate
them and here, and it actually motivated me to get
into this team. And so I've been fascinated by this
group for a while, and I'm always fascinated by the
(06:46):
social dynamics of a team, and this collection was really
intrigued and I can't wait to tell the story of
them with you. I was at that All Star game
when Marvin Gay We're gonna be talking about that anthem later,
but it's very rare you capture an iconic moment at
the moment that it happens. But that's exactly what happened
with that national anthem. They might not have said it,
(07:08):
but we're gonna be listening to that thing for a
hundred years. Man, it was interesting to hear how much Showski,
you know, a product of the u United States Military Academy.
It was interesting to see how much he embraced that
version of it, and how much he embraced the military too.
As we get into that, and every little motivational tactic,
(07:32):
every angle that Showski tried, it worked and it resulted
in that gold medal in that triumph in Beijing in
two thousand and eight. And there's a clip from right
after that gold medal game which they defeated Spain, and
Kobe's there and he's got his arms around Carmelo Anthony
and Dwyane Wade and Lebron James is standing next to
(07:52):
Dwyane Wade. A little foreshadowing there, and Kobe was giddy
and he reverted back to that same Michael Jordan like
in plaction that he had when he first came in
the league. It was like he rediscovered the enthusiasm from
his teenage years. Jack and let's take a listen. Incredible,
We've been waiting for this for a while. He's back
one time. This is what it's all about. This is
what it's all about. What having a blast right now. Now.
(08:15):
I hadn't seen him this physically affectionate with his teammates
since he won his first championship with the Lakers in
two thousand and we're gonna roll the clips some more,
and you'll hear Kobe answers another question, and Carmelo chimes in,
and then Lebron James provides some of his usual matter
of fact analysis, and then you're also gonna hear Kobe
call out se pete three when Chris Paul joins him.
Chris is holding his victory cigar and it starts to win.
(08:37):
A reporter asked him, how did you feel when Spain
pulled within two and what was going through your mind?
It was us enjoy challenge, You enjoy competition. We enjoined
every minute of this is fun, This is movie all wanted.
That's what made it that much better. Man, That's what
he wants. Gonna be a Kike walk like it was
last game. Um, Spain brought the eight plus game and
and we did too, So come on and take care
(08:58):
of business. We did it the right way, So Jack,
let's stop and appreciate it for a moment. You have
four of the top thirty scorers in the history of
the NBA. Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dwayne Wade, Lebron, and Chris
Paul are in the career top ten for assists, and
of course Jason Cabe was on the team the number
two all time assist leader at the moment, he was
(09:19):
probably off somewhere icing his knees. He was the old
man on that team. And it's not just the accomplishments
of that group, it's the bond. And again that really
gets to my central premise about this team, the Redeemed Team,
is that Kobe was good for these guys because he
showed them what it took to put yourself at the
very top, that extra bit of work it takes. And
(09:39):
the Redeemed Team experience was good for Kobe because it
showed him how to be a part of the group.
And I thought it was interesting that when we asked
Carmelo Anthony for the memories that stood out from him
for that two thousand Olympic experience, he took it right
back to Kobe, the way that he like bought himself
to become so comfortable with us in and the players
(10:00):
on the team, and you know, really understanding like okay,
like this is a band of brothers him Like you
saw him like slowly letting his guard down, even on
the buses, you know, even going to the Olympic village
and going to other sports levans, Like you saw the
guard coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he
(10:22):
was fully immersed in and what we was doing and
being there with us, and that was something that was
like Okay, he finally like, okay, we got the last
brick down, like we you know, he's the wall is down,
Like it's down, y'all. Damn. We did a good job,
like every was. You almost felt like a sense of
victory seeing him laugh the way that he was laughing
(10:45):
and you know, talking and communicating and stories and just
like you, we felt that We always say, lions don't
hang with others, don't hang with nobody other than lions.
Right when you put it that way to him and
you messed with the you know that this a rebal
part of it. He locks in and I think that's
(11:06):
what that's what he was dealing with. Like he knew
like he was being sharpened by us and we were
being sharpened by him. We understood that. And so when
Kobe got back to l a and they're getting ready
to start the season in l A. In two thousand
and eight, he meets with Phil Jackson and Phil was curious.
He asked Kobe what it was like, and I talked
to him about the pleasure of playing and that uh Olympics.
(11:28):
He talked about the amount of fund they had, that
we were really at a great time. He was very
assistant about that. I asked him about various characters. I
asked him about Dwayne Wade and and you know Lebron
that they could keep up with him, and uh, you
know if he drilled them as hard as he drilled
some of his teammates. And he said yeah. And I said, uh,
(11:51):
did you get him up in the morning and worked
out at six o'clock before? Yeah, I got him up
and yeah he did all that. And jack Phil had
that sort of amused look as he told us that
story and recalled that moment for Kobe. And it was
a different Kobe Bryant, and it was a more successful
Koke Bryan. As we'll see, he goes on to win
the next two NBA championships. So it wasn't just a culmination.
(12:15):
It really launched a lot of those guys and I
think they were all better for that experience. Yeah, and
you know, years, four years earlier, we're gonna be talking
about that a little bit. You're listening to Kobe Lebron
and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back in just a moment.
You know, you forget how these guys themselves had down
(12:38):
points in their career in two thousand four, the Olympics
that we're gonna be talking about later, when we did
not win a gold medal, Lebron Mellow, Dwayne Wade more
or less. You know, they felt like losers. They were
being called upon as only rookies to kind of have
(12:58):
a prominent place on this big team. And you know,
the moral is even guys like this need to grow.
And it would be interesting to know how much this
two thousand eight Redeemed Team helped them do that. I mean,
Lebron and Dwayne obviously went on to win, and Chris
Bosh went on to win championships together. And you wonder
(13:21):
what a formative moment this was for all these guys
and the Redeem Team. Some of them, you know, didn't
really need it. Jason Kidd was a little more forward
in his career, but for all the other guys. That
was important. And we're not gonna take you through the
games of two thousand eight here. They'll be coming more
near the end of the podcast. But there's a moment
(13:43):
after the gold medal game that seems of small importance,
but it was really not. And Sean Ford, who's the
veteran director of basketball operations for USA Basketball, talks about it.
The guys wanted champagne, right, Uh, that was a big
thing for them, especially like I remember Lebron he said,
let's treat this like a real champion. We watched Champagne
(14:05):
and that, and and I remember talking with said Jason, like,
we can do the champagne. You just gotta remember, like
when we come back to the locker room, we got
to go back out for the metal ceremony. We can't
have you guys sprain each other. And it was particularly
important for Jason Kidd, as he explains here in two
thousand we really didn't get a chance to celebrate. I
(14:26):
think we were exhausted and we were just ready to
go home. And I told Si, like, we we have
to celebrate. Now. Jason's talking about the what I would
call I think j referred to it as the invisible Olympics.
It was a two thousand games in Sydney. It was
forgotten Jack. Yeah, I mean if you think about it
(14:48):
during the other hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere, and the time
difference was so great and we couldn't stream back then, right,
we were at the mercy of when NBC was going
to show the games, and there were time times they'd
be showing a game and it was so delayed because
of the time difference. Like I not only knew the
results of that game, I knew the result of the
next game after that. And one thing, it was an
(15:10):
important step in the Internet though, because I would say
the Vince Carter dunk, the famous Vince Carter dunk from
that Olympics over Frederick Weiss. That was one of the
first viral Internet moments. And it was viral through email, right.
There wasn't social media back then, but somehow somebody got
their hands on a blocky, low resolution clip of that
(15:31):
dunk and they would email it around and get forward
and forward, and you get the email when it finally
gets you to have like forward forward, forward, forward, forward forward,
and you'd watch it on like real player or Windows
Media Player or something, and it was really blocky and slow.
But that's how you saw the greatest moment of that game.
But it wasn't something that we watched collectively. The dunk
(15:52):
day La Mort's as the French call up. I didn't
even really remember this. It came after a steal and
Vince Carter almost jumps completely over the seven ft two
inch Frederick Weiss, who from that moment kind of got
you know, he was the first person to be eternally posterized.
(16:14):
I mean that's uh, that's probably in the first paragraph
of every Frederick White story written since then, and really
there haven't been many. But I was at those games.
I covered those games for Sports Illustrated and it's a
sad omission, j A. But I didn't even want to
cover basketball. I covered women's cycling race, I covered Greco
(16:35):
Roman wrestling. And it speaks to kind of this invisible time.
You know, there was still this kind of hangover from
the Dream Team, and we couldn't quite get our focus
on it, and we came very close to losing a game.
As Jason Kidd explains here, We're like, we have gone
back to the States, could we have you know, shown
(16:56):
our face after you know, losing Uh in the Olympics. Now,
Kid is so right. We would love to get the
audio from that final moment when the Americans could have lost,
but it costs about a million dollars a moment, so
I'm gonna have to recreate it. Semifinal game against Lithuania,
four points, six seconds left, United States leads to eighty three.
(17:20):
Lithuania erunus. Yes, uh Covicius is dribbling, guarded by Kid.
He goes right, Kid forces him left, time running out, Yes,
a Capshus goes up. Antonio mcdie comes out the shot
that could beat the Americans and shock the world was
wide left. The United States win eighty three, and the US,
(17:42):
still being called the dream team in some quarters, goes
on to beat France in the gold medal game by twelve,
but clearly something was changing in the world. You're listening
to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back
right after this. Now, do you remember the Olympics in Atlanta?
(18:08):
What do you remember from those four years earlier? Jake, Yeah,
I covered those That was my first Olympics and there
was still the halo effect of ninety two, and you
still had some of the Dream teamers, right. Charles Barkley
most notably was on that team. David Robinson was on
that team. So you still have some members of the
original dream Team, and it was just so tough to
(18:31):
live up because you didn't have the true stars. You
didn't have Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, you didn't
have those guys around, so it couldn't live up to them,
Uh and Jack. The debate was whether or not we
should still be calling the dream team. So I think
USA Basketball was trying to keep that alive, and especially
the ninety four World Championship team, they definitely called that
(18:53):
dream team too, and in the players in particular were
still using the dream Team moniker. I think there were
still some basketball pins that said dream Team on them.
But one person who was adamantly against using that moniker
was Michael Jordan himself. I'll never forget he comes to
Washington and I asked him, I said, Michael, what do
you think about them calling this still the dream Team.
(19:14):
Almost before I could finish the question, looks at me,
says there's only one dream team the rest of the duplicates,
and he gave me that glare that Michael Jordan glare.
His eyes were just raising. The furnace behind those eyes
was raging at me on fire, and so laser eyes, man,
laser eyes. After that, I certainly didn't use Dream Team
anymore because I was afraid Michael Jordan would hunt me
(19:36):
down and snatch the newspaper and throw my laptop in
the trash. I looked back at the two thousand, you know,
four years after that, and there was still a kind
of modest effort to use Dream Team. They would have
been dream Team four, you know, the team in Sydney,
but by then it was starting to kind of flame out.
And even though, like you said, there were five members
(19:59):
of the original Dream Team on that team, but they
really paid a price for following the Dream Team and
they kind of knew it, you know, That's what was hard. Hey, hey,
where's our attention? Where are the fans for our games?
And I kind of likened it to the astronauts that followed,
you know, Neil Armstrong. There's only one person that gets
(20:20):
to the moon first, and in this case, uh, you know,
extending that metaphor, it was the Dream Team that did it.
And I just remember I talked to Charles about it.
Charles Barkley about the nineties six games, when the Americans
still won every game in a runaway. They were still
very good. And here is Charles's succinct wrap up of
(20:43):
the nine Olympic experience. So, you know, it's hard to
put your finger on exactly why these guys paid such
a price that, as I said, the thing I put
on a most lee is hangover. There was this hangover,
and Showsky later on talked to us about what the
(21:07):
difference might have been, and it was almost like the
dream Team came along, they made their impact, and they
grew the game around the world. There's no question they
speeded up international players coming into the NBA, but they
were kind of, as far as the United States was concerned,
kind of a one off. And here's Mike Shaski talking
(21:28):
about that in the evolution of USA basketball. USA Basketball
two had no culture, but the group that they assembled
brought the NBA's culture of the eighties into it, where
all those guys truly believed that they built a product
(21:50):
that was gonna last and it was classy by the
fifteen years later. That was not the case in the
NBA either. You know, there was more individualism and whatever,
and the culture that they brought in ninety two didn't
stay with USA Basketball. So the perfect storm that surrounded
(22:12):
the Dream Team Jay it the fact that it was new,
it was the certainly global pre eminence of Jordan's as
a crossover corporate figure, the newness of it all, the
fact that was in this exotic city, Barcelona, the fact
that international audiences had seen glimpses of the Dream Team
(22:33):
but they hadn't really seen them together. It all came
together to kindness form this kind of magical time and
anything that came after that couldn't match up to it
until our guys, the Redeemed Team came on and two
thousand eight and kind of formed their own identity. And
it's kind of ironic because the Dream Team version was
(22:57):
I would say successful beyond anyone's a man nation, both
capturing the gold medal that had been lost in in
Seoul in but that was the you know, presumably the
primary mission, but really this was about growing the game
of basketball internationally, helping the NBA brand internationally, and it
succeeded in those regards beyond anyone's imagination. Traveling in Germany,
(23:22):
for example, in in two thousand and six, for the
World Cup and seeing a cutout of Allen Iverson in
a shoe store. They're in Germany. I've been to Africa
and seeing Penny Hardaway jerseys in Africa. Throughout the world,
NBA basketball and NBA players probably became the most recognizable
American athletes. So it worked in that regard. Uh, It
(23:44):
helped spread basketball and it made it tougher though for
USA basketball, because as we've discussed, it was harder for
those subsequent teams to live up for that, and the
ninety two Dream Team inspired players around the world to
elevate their games to try to match that. They'd seen
the template, now they've seen the standard, and now they
(24:04):
were all shooting for that. They succeeded or failed to
varying degrees. But you can't dispute the fact that international
basketball was elevated by their exposure to the Dream Team.
So now it became harder for subsequent teams. Was too
soon for that really to take effect on the court.
The Dream Team, you know, cruise to the championship. The
games were really boring, Jack, how was it? Everyone? The
(24:26):
most memorable moment was they presented Muhammad Ali. They re
gave him his gold medal from the nineteen sixty Olympics.
That legend has it he thrown in the river in Louisville.
They presented Ali with the gold medal at halftime in
one game. Dennis Rodman for some reason shows up at
another game and cause a big commotion in the stands.
And that's all I can remember from the nine Olympic
(24:46):
basketball experience. Well, that's two more things than I remember.
J What I clearly remember are some of these moments
from the two thousand eight Redeemed Team. And you're gonna
give us a little preview of the next episode when
we're going to concentrate on Code, who is obviously one
of the central characters of the Redeemed Team, one of
the central figures in the history of the NBA, and
(25:07):
somebody whose death is obviously top of mind right now
since it happened a little over a year ago. So
give us a little sample of what's going to go
on in episode two. Well, it's amazing how much he
became a focal point of the two thousand eight team,
and everyone we talked to in some way or another
talked about Kobe's impact, and in a lot of ways,
(25:29):
the team became centered around him, so it almost demanded
a separate episode dedicated to Kobe and so what we'll
get into his impact on the team, but we'll really
tell the story from the time he came into the
league in and the difficulties he had assimilating and messing
with his teammates and trying to come into the fold
(25:49):
learning under Phil Jackson. And again Phil Jackson has some
great stuff to tell us about Kobe. We also talked
to his teammates like Robert ry to give us their
impressions of young will be in the Progression of Kobe.
So we'll really get the ark of Kobe Bryant from
his rookie year through this time in two thousand and eight,
all the ups and downs and and yes including the
(26:10):
sexual assault case in Colorado which became a big part
of his story. So we'll look at that journey for
Kobe and I would say the redemption story of Kobe Bryant.
And here's some of the interviews that will be hearing
and the people that will be hearing from in that episode.
I remember Cole was just like everybody's going like at
a third of speed and Kobe's going one hund and
(26:31):
shoot around like, does this guy noticed the shoot around
and he was like, you know, I gotta go hard
because I'm trying to start. I'm like, dude, it shoot around.
Nobody goes hard. And he just had all his energy
and I said, that's that's an eighteen year old or
you know that you're gonna have all that energy and
when you wait, wait to this agem um game grinding here,
(26:52):
you're gonna slow down. And it was just one of
those things. He was just trying to learn the game,
and he was just one of those guys that was
in the gym constantly trying to get better. I mean
every plate he was going hard and that It was
kind of Kobe's mindset was that he wanted to be
considered one of the greatest that ever played the game
and was concerned about it, uh and was going to
(27:14):
do something about it. And no one's gonna stand in
his way about it either. So we'll hear that in
so much more in episode two of Kobe Lebron and
the Redeem Team. I'm ja done for this episode. I'm
Jack McCallum. We look forward to joining you for episode two.
(27:53):
The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe Lebron and The
Redeemed Team is a production of Diversion podcast Asks in
association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
where wherever you get your podcasts. This season is written
(28:14):
and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dande.
Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast
and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial
director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer
Freddie Overseegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark Frantz.
(28:36):
Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our director of
Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion Podcasts
The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Redeem Team is the production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here we don't represent
our country, especially especial Lebron James. We look for an
(00:47):
opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being the
best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is
as it is right. We're the rest team in the world.
We're the best team in the world. We put Basketball
America basketball wheat, which is at the top. M Hello
(01:20):
and welcome to Kobe, Lebron and the Redeemed Team. This
is episode one which we're calling on top of the world.
I'm Jack McCallum who brought you the Dream Team tapes,
and this is its worthy sequel. See the story of
the Redeem Team, sometimes overlooked, is in its on its own.
(01:42):
In my opinion, every bit is intriguing as a dream
Team that preceded them by sixteen years. And one of
the things I found out by doing the Dream Team
tapes is how eager these guys were to talk about it.
For even guys that were all Stars, Hall of Famers,
one Champ being Chips, it was a really special time
(02:03):
in their lives, which is why I was able to
get inside the heads of players like Michael Jordan's, Larry
Bird and Magic Johnson. And in the same way, the
Redeemed Team defines a lot of these guys career And
in the coming weeks, you're gonna be hearing from the players,
the coaches, and the executives who were so eager to
(02:24):
share their thoughts on what was an important part in
their lives. So here's a quick snapshot, but some of
those voices you'll be hearing. We all understood the pecking order.
We knew Kobe and Lebron, uh, we're gonna shoot the ball,
or that you know, more or less Kobe was going
to shoot the ball. I've never said this, but I
remember sitting there watching those guys when we were in harmony.
(02:48):
You can't play better than this. The most pressure moment
I've ever had as a coach was the gold medal
game with eight minutes to go. The year is two
thousand and eight. The games of the twenty nine Olympiad
an American basketball team, an American basketball program really bent
(03:08):
on turning around its diminished fortunes, which included a sixth
place finished in the two thousand two World Championships and
even worse, a mere bronze medal in the two thousand
four Olympics. And assets, the United States team was on
a mission. There was magic in the air. Actually there
was smog in the air. Hey, we're in Beijing after all.
(03:31):
But this two thousand and eight team turned out to
be a breath of fresh air for our Olympic program.
But it wasn't easy. They'll be joined by j Addande,
who himself was heard recently talking about a dream teamer
somebody named Jordan's in the terrific Beyond the last dance
(03:53):
that he did with b J Armstrong, a former teammate
of Jordan's j A take it away, hey, Jack. I'll
be focusing on the Kobe Bryant aspect of this because
it's so fascinating to me both the impact that Kobe
had on this team and that this team and that
this experience had on Kobe. And the reason I'm focused
on Kope so much is that I was in Los
(04:14):
Angeles working at the l A Times and then ESPN
for nineteen of Kobe's twenty seasons with the Los Angeles Lakers.
So we'll be talking to his teammates and his coach,
Phil Jackson, getting perspective on Kobe in addition to how
he fit into this two thousand and eight Olympic team,
which wasn't that easy, just like it wasn't always that
easy for him to fit into the Los Angeles Lakers.
We got filled to come out of hiding for this
(04:36):
j Yeah, that was all you, jack That was a
good get, as they say in the media business. But
through the power of email and some persistence on your part,
we were able to get Phil Jackson, you don't really
hear from very often these days. We had about an
hour with Phil talking about the ark of his time
with Kobe, and that was a fascinating discussion. We'll be
(04:57):
hearing a little bit of that today and plenty more
as we go through this podcast series, and I think
you're gonna find yourself immersed in this, as both of
us were in this project. And so we'll hear about
the redemptive arts of Kobe and the players like Lebron
James and Carmelo Anthony who are on the two thousand
four Olympic team, and they got the chance to rectify
that disappointing Bron's medland Athens. And it's also about to
(05:19):
turnaround the USA basketball. It was led by Jerry Colangelo
and how he got the players to buy into a
concept that was bigger than even the biggest names in
the NBA, and how Mike Schoki got these players to
listen to a college coach, thanks in part to a
few time left bombs. And along the way we'll learn
things like Lebron's preferred drink and which player almost got
(05:41):
left behind on a night out in Macau, China. And
it all led to this glorious golden moment that Mike
Shachofsky described. That's as much pressure as any of the
teams have had during that time. And what a joyous
celebration afterwards. So moment in time that you know, some
(06:02):
of the greatest players in the history of our game
could share together. I can't explain the moment. And our
guys were so reverent they looked so good, and they
got gold medals around and the national anthems playing and
their flags raised above all the others and incredible, and
so Jack. The moment that I got into this team
was when they had that Nike commercial with them running
(06:24):
around the court and working out to the Marvin gaybers
into the Star Spangled banner. And we'll hear from Coach
k and some of the players about how much they
really got into that song. And he utilized that anthem
almost every time that they were together to help motivate
them and here, and it actually motivated me to get
into this team. And so I've been fascinated by this
group for a while, and I'm always fascinated by the
(06:46):
social dynamics of a team, and this collection was really
intrigued and I can't wait to tell the story of
them with you. I was at that All Star game
when Marvin Gay We're gonna be talking about that anthem later,
but it's very rare you capture an iconic moment at
the moment that it happens. But that's exactly what happened
with that national anthem. They might not have said it,
(07:08):
but we're gonna be listening to that thing for a
hundred years. Man, it was interesting to hear how much Showski,
you know, a product of the u United States Military Academy.
It was interesting to see how much he embraced that
version of it, and how much he embraced the military too.
As we get into that, and every little motivational tactic,
(07:32):
every angle that Showski tried, it worked and it resulted
in that gold medal in that triumph in Beijing in
two thousand and eight. And there's a clip from right
after that gold medal game which they defeated Spain, and
Kobe's there and he's got his arms around Carmelo Anthony
and Dwyane Wade and Lebron James is standing next to
(07:52):
Dwyane Wade. A little foreshadowing there, and Kobe was giddy
and he reverted back to that same Michael Jordan like
in plaction that he had when he first came in
the league. It was like he rediscovered the enthusiasm from
his teenage years. Jack and let's take a listen. Incredible,
We've been waiting for this for a while. He's back
one time. This is what it's all about. This is
what it's all about. What having a blast right now. Now.
(08:15):
I hadn't seen him this physically affectionate with his teammates
since he won his first championship with the Lakers in
two thousand and we're gonna roll the clips some more,
and you'll hear Kobe answers another question, and Carmelo chimes in,
and then Lebron James provides some of his usual matter
of fact analysis, and then you're also gonna hear Kobe
call out se pete three when Chris Paul joins him.
Chris is holding his victory cigar and it starts to win.
(08:37):
A reporter asked him, how did you feel when Spain
pulled within two and what was going through your mind?
It was us enjoy challenge, You enjoy competition. We enjoined
every minute of this is fun, This is movie all wanted.
That's what made it that much better. Man, That's what
he wants. Gonna be a Kike walk like it was
last game. Um, Spain brought the eight plus game and
and we did too, So come on and take care
(08:58):
of business. We did it the right way, So Jack,
let's stop and appreciate it for a moment. You have
four of the top thirty scorers in the history of
the NBA. Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dwayne Wade, Lebron, and Chris
Paul are in the career top ten for assists, and
of course Jason Cabe was on the team the number
two all time assist leader at the moment, he was
(09:19):
probably off somewhere icing his knees. He was the old
man on that team. And it's not just the accomplishments
of that group, it's the bond. And again that really
gets to my central premise about this team, the Redeemed Team,
is that Kobe was good for these guys because he
showed them what it took to put yourself at the
very top, that extra bit of work it takes. And
(09:39):
the Redeemed Team experience was good for Kobe because it
showed him how to be a part of the group.
And I thought it was interesting that when we asked
Carmelo Anthony for the memories that stood out from him
for that two thousand Olympic experience, he took it right
back to Kobe, the way that he like bought himself
to become so comfortable with us in and the players
(10:00):
on the team, and you know, really understanding like okay,
like this is a band of brothers him Like you
saw him like slowly letting his guard down, even on
the buses, you know, even going to the Olympic village
and going to other sports levans, Like you saw the
guard coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he
(10:22):
was fully immersed in and what we was doing and
being there with us, and that was something that was
like Okay, he finally like, okay, we got the last
brick down, like we you know, he's the wall is down,
Like it's down, y'all. Damn. We did a good job,
like every was. You almost felt like a sense of
victory seeing him laugh the way that he was laughing
(10:45):
and you know, talking and communicating and stories and just
like you, we felt that We always say, lions don't
hang with others, don't hang with nobody other than lions.
Right when you put it that way to him and
you messed with the you know that this a rebal
part of it. He locks in and I think that's
(11:06):
what that's what he was dealing with. Like he knew
like he was being sharpened by us and we were
being sharpened by him. We understood that. And so when
Kobe got back to l a and they're getting ready
to start the season in l A. In two thousand
and eight, he meets with Phil Jackson and Phil was curious.
He asked Kobe what it was like, and I talked
to him about the pleasure of playing and that uh Olympics.
(11:28):
He talked about the amount of fund they had, that
we were really at a great time. He was very
assistant about that. I asked him about various characters. I
asked him about Dwayne Wade and and you know Lebron
that they could keep up with him, and uh, you
know if he drilled them as hard as he drilled
some of his teammates. And he said yeah. And I said, uh,
(11:51):
did you get him up in the morning and worked
out at six o'clock before? Yeah, I got him up
and yeah he did all that. And jack Phil had
that sort of amused look as he told us that
story and recalled that moment for Kobe. And it was
a different Kobe Bryant, and it was a more successful
Koke Bryan. As we'll see, he goes on to win
the next two NBA championships. So it wasn't just a culmination.
(12:15):
It really launched a lot of those guys and I
think they were all better for that experience. Yeah, and
you know, years, four years earlier, we're gonna be talking
about that a little bit. You're listening to Kobe Lebron
and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back in just a moment.
You know, you forget how these guys themselves had down
(12:38):
points in their career in two thousand four, the Olympics
that we're gonna be talking about later, when we did
not win a gold medal, Lebron Mellow, Dwayne Wade more
or less. You know, they felt like losers. They were
being called upon as only rookies to kind of have
(12:58):
a prominent place on this big team. And you know,
the moral is even guys like this need to grow.
And it would be interesting to know how much this
two thousand eight Redeemed Team helped them do that. I mean,
Lebron and Dwayne obviously went on to win, and Chris
Bosh went on to win championships together. And you wonder
(13:21):
what a formative moment this was for all these guys
and the Redeem Team. Some of them, you know, didn't
really need it. Jason Kidd was a little more forward
in his career, but for all the other guys. That
was important. And we're not gonna take you through the
games of two thousand eight here. They'll be coming more
near the end of the podcast. But there's a moment
(13:43):
after the gold medal game that seems of small importance,
but it was really not. And Sean Ford, who's the
veteran director of basketball operations for USA Basketball, talks about it.
The guys wanted champagne, right, Uh, that was a big
thing for them, especially like I remember Lebron he said,
let's treat this like a real champion. We watched Champagne
(14:05):
and that, and and I remember talking with said Jason, like,
we can do the champagne. You just gotta remember, like
when we come back to the locker room, we got
to go back out for the metal ceremony. We can't
have you guys sprain each other. And it was particularly
important for Jason Kidd, as he explains here in two
thousand we really didn't get a chance to celebrate. I
(14:26):
think we were exhausted and we were just ready to
go home. And I told Si, like, we we have
to celebrate. Now. Jason's talking about the what I would
call I think j referred to it as the invisible Olympics.
It was a two thousand games in Sydney. It was
forgotten Jack. Yeah, I mean if you think about it
(14:48):
during the other hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere, and the time
difference was so great and we couldn't stream back then, right,
we were at the mercy of when NBC was going
to show the games, and there were time times they'd
be showing a game and it was so delayed because
of the time difference. Like I not only knew the
results of that game, I knew the result of the
next game after that. And one thing, it was an
(15:10):
important step in the Internet though, because I would say
the Vince Carter dunk, the famous Vince Carter dunk from
that Olympics over Frederick Weiss. That was one of the
first viral Internet moments. And it was viral through email, right.
There wasn't social media back then, but somehow somebody got
their hands on a blocky, low resolution clip of that
(15:31):
dunk and they would email it around and get forward
and forward, and you get the email when it finally
gets you to have like forward forward, forward, forward, forward forward,
and you'd watch it on like real player or Windows
Media Player or something, and it was really blocky and slow.
But that's how you saw the greatest moment of that game.
But it wasn't something that we watched collectively. The dunk
(15:52):
day La Mort's as the French call up. I didn't
even really remember this. It came after a steal and
Vince Carter almost jumps completely over the seven ft two
inch Frederick Weiss, who from that moment kind of got
you know, he was the first person to be eternally posterized.
(16:14):
I mean that's uh, that's probably in the first paragraph
of every Frederick White story written since then, and really
there haven't been many. But I was at those games.
I covered those games for Sports Illustrated and it's a
sad omission, j A. But I didn't even want to
cover basketball. I covered women's cycling race, I covered Greco
(16:35):
Roman wrestling. And it speaks to kind of this invisible time.
You know, there was still this kind of hangover from
the Dream Team, and we couldn't quite get our focus
on it, and we came very close to losing a game.
As Jason Kidd explains here, We're like, we have gone
back to the States, could we have you know, shown
(16:56):
our face after you know, losing Uh in the Olympics. Now,
Kid is so right. We would love to get the
audio from that final moment when the Americans could have lost,
but it costs about a million dollars a moment, so
I'm gonna have to recreate it. Semifinal game against Lithuania,
four points, six seconds left, United States leads to eighty three.
(17:20):
Lithuania erunus. Yes, uh Covicius is dribbling, guarded by Kid.
He goes right, Kid forces him left, time running out, Yes,
a Capshus goes up. Antonio mcdie comes out the shot
that could beat the Americans and shock the world was
wide left. The United States win eighty three, and the US,
(17:42):
still being called the dream team in some quarters, goes
on to beat France in the gold medal game by twelve,
but clearly something was changing in the world. You're listening
to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back
right after this. Now, do you remember the Olympics in Atlanta?
(18:08):
What do you remember from those four years earlier? Jake, Yeah,
I covered those That was my first Olympics and there
was still the halo effect of ninety two, and you
still had some of the Dream teamers, right. Charles Barkley
most notably was on that team. David Robinson was on
that team. So you still have some members of the
original dream Team, and it was just so tough to
(18:31):
live up because you didn't have the true stars. You
didn't have Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, you didn't
have those guys around, so it couldn't live up to them,
Uh and Jack. The debate was whether or not we
should still be calling the dream team. So I think
USA Basketball was trying to keep that alive, and especially
the ninety four World Championship team, they definitely called that
(18:53):
dream team too, and in the players in particular were
still using the dream Team moniker. I think there were
still some basketball pins that said dream Team on them.
But one person who was adamantly against using that moniker
was Michael Jordan himself. I'll never forget he comes to
Washington and I asked him, I said, Michael, what do
you think about them calling this still the dream Team.
(19:14):
Almost before I could finish the question, looks at me,
says there's only one dream team the rest of the duplicates,
and he gave me that glare that Michael Jordan glare.
His eyes were just raising. The furnace behind those eyes
was raging at me on fire, and so laser eyes, man,
laser eyes. After that, I certainly didn't use Dream Team
anymore because I was afraid Michael Jordan would hunt me
(19:36):
down and snatch the newspaper and throw my laptop in
the trash. I looked back at the two thousand, you know,
four years after that, and there was still a kind
of modest effort to use Dream Team. They would have
been dream Team four, you know, the team in Sydney,
but by then it was starting to kind of flame out.
And even though, like you said, there were five members
(19:59):
of the original Dream Team on that team, but they
really paid a price for following the Dream Team and
they kind of knew it, you know, That's what was hard. Hey, hey,
where's our attention? Where are the fans for our games?
And I kind of likened it to the astronauts that followed,
you know, Neil Armstrong. There's only one person that gets
(20:20):
to the moon first, and in this case, uh, you know,
extending that metaphor, it was the Dream Team that did it.
And I just remember I talked to Charles about it.
Charles Barkley about the nineties six games, when the Americans
still won every game in a runaway. They were still
very good. And here is Charles's succinct wrap up of
(20:43):
the nine Olympic experience. So, you know, it's hard to
put your finger on exactly why these guys paid such
a price that, as I said, the thing I put
on a most lee is hangover. There was this hangover,
and Showsky later on talked to us about what the
(21:07):
difference might have been, and it was almost like the
dream Team came along, they made their impact, and they
grew the game around the world. There's no question they
speeded up international players coming into the NBA, but they
were kind of, as far as the United States was concerned,
kind of a one off. And here's Mike Shaski talking
(21:28):
about that in the evolution of USA basketball. USA Basketball
two had no culture, but the group that they assembled
brought the NBA's culture of the eighties into it, where
all those guys truly believed that they built a product
(21:50):
that was gonna last and it was classy by the
fifteen years later. That was not the case in the
NBA either. You know, there was more individualism and whatever,
and the culture that they brought in ninety two didn't
stay with USA Basketball. So the perfect storm that surrounded
(22:12):
the Dream Team Jay it the fact that it was new,
it was the certainly global pre eminence of Jordan's as
a crossover corporate figure, the newness of it all, the
fact that was in this exotic city, Barcelona, the fact
that international audiences had seen glimpses of the Dream Team
(22:33):
but they hadn't really seen them together. It all came
together to kindness form this kind of magical time and
anything that came after that couldn't match up to it
until our guys, the Redeemed Team came on and two
thousand eight and kind of formed their own identity. And
it's kind of ironic because the Dream Team version was
(22:57):
I would say successful beyond anyone's a man nation, both
capturing the gold medal that had been lost in in
Seoul in but that was the you know, presumably the
primary mission, but really this was about growing the game
of basketball internationally, helping the NBA brand internationally, and it
succeeded in those regards beyond anyone's imagination. Traveling in Germany,
(23:22):
for example, in in two thousand and six, for the
World Cup and seeing a cutout of Allen Iverson in
a shoe store. They're in Germany. I've been to Africa
and seeing Penny Hardaway jerseys in Africa. Throughout the world,
NBA basketball and NBA players probably became the most recognizable
American athletes. So it worked in that regard. Uh, It
(23:44):
helped spread basketball and it made it tougher though for
USA basketball, because as we've discussed, it was harder for
those subsequent teams to live up for that, and the
ninety two Dream Team inspired players around the world to
elevate their games to try to match that. They'd seen
the template, now they've seen the standard, and now they
(24:04):
were all shooting for that. They succeeded or failed to
varying degrees. But you can't dispute the fact that international
basketball was elevated by their exposure to the Dream Team.
So now it became harder for subsequent teams. Was too
soon for that really to take effect on the court.
The Dream Team, you know, cruise to the championship. The
games were really boring, Jack, how was it? Everyone? The
(24:26):
most memorable moment was they presented Muhammad Ali. They re
gave him his gold medal from the nineteen sixty Olympics.
That legend has it he thrown in the river in Louisville.
They presented Ali with the gold medal at halftime in
one game. Dennis Rodman for some reason shows up at
another game and cause a big commotion in the stands.
And that's all I can remember from the nine Olympic
(24:46):
basketball experience. Well, that's two more things than I remember.
J What I clearly remember are some of these moments
from the two thousand eight Redeemed Team. And you're gonna
give us a little preview of the next episode when
we're going to concentrate on Code, who is obviously one
of the central characters of the Redeemed Team, one of
the central figures in the history of the NBA, and
(25:07):
somebody whose death is obviously top of mind right now
since it happened a little over a year ago. So
give us a little sample of what's going to go
on in episode two. Well, it's amazing how much he
became a focal point of the two thousand eight team,
and everyone we talked to in some way or another
talked about Kobe's impact, and in a lot of ways,
(25:29):
the team became centered around him, so it almost demanded
a separate episode dedicated to Kobe and so what we'll
get into his impact on the team, but we'll really
tell the story from the time he came into the
league in and the difficulties he had assimilating and messing
with his teammates and trying to come into the fold
(25:49):
learning under Phil Jackson. And again Phil Jackson has some
great stuff to tell us about Kobe. We also talked
to his teammates like Robert ry to give us their
impressions of young will be in the Progression of Kobe.
So we'll really get the ark of Kobe Bryant from
his rookie year through this time in two thousand and eight,
all the ups and downs and and yes including the
(26:10):
sexual assault case in Colorado which became a big part
of his story. So we'll look at that journey for
Kobe and I would say the redemption story of Kobe Bryant.
And here's some of the interviews that will be hearing
and the people that will be hearing from in that episode.
I remember Cole was just like everybody's going like at
a third of speed and Kobe's going one hund and
(26:31):
shoot around like, does this guy noticed the shoot around
and he was like, you know, I gotta go hard
because I'm trying to start. I'm like, dude, it shoot around.
Nobody goes hard. And he just had all his energy
and I said, that's that's an eighteen year old or
you know that you're gonna have all that energy and
when you wait, wait to this agem um game grinding here,
(26:52):
you're gonna slow down. And it was just one of
those things. He was just trying to learn the game,
and he was just one of those guys that was
in the gym constantly trying to get better. I mean
every plate he was going hard and that It was
kind of Kobe's mindset was that he wanted to be
considered one of the greatest that ever played the game
and was concerned about it, uh and was going to
(27:14):
do something about it. And no one's gonna stand in
his way about it either. So we'll hear that in
so much more in episode two of Kobe Lebron and
the Redeem Team. I'm ja done for this episode. I'm
Jack McCallum. We look forward to joining you for episode two.
(27:53):
The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe Lebron and The
Redeemed Team is a production of Diversion podcast Asks in
association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
where wherever you get your podcasts. This season is written
(28:14):
and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dande.
Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast
and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial
director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer
Freddie Overseegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark Frantz.
(28:36):
Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our director of
Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion Podcasts
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