March 23, 2021 • 40 mins
While an injury keeps Kobe Bryant away from USA Basketball after his highest-scoring season, newly crowned champion Dwyane Wade joins LeBron James for version 1.0 of the Redeem Team. But trouble awaits in the semifinals of the FIBA World Championships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with i Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here we don't represent
our country minutes, especially special Lebron James. We look for
(00:47):
an opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being
the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team
is as it is right. We're the rest team in
the world. We're the best team in the world. And
we put Basketball America basketball wheat which is at the top.
All Hello, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, all the
(01:21):
ships that see. Welcome to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team,
Episode six, which we're calling for reasons that will become clear.
Redeemed Team b K Before Kobe, I'm Jack McCallum. You've
already heard about the magnificent organizational job done by Jerry Colangelo,
the Godfather. You can hear that Godfather music cued in
(01:43):
by our wonderful technical person Mark Francis. The magnificent job
that Jerry did in putting the team together, in the
choice of Mike Shooski to coach this team. But this
episode centers on the year two thousand six, when the
team finally gets together, shows a lot of cohesi and
a teamwork, and promptly takes a nose dive in the
(02:03):
two thousand six World Championships in Japan. We'll be talking
about that, but I want to begin with an off
the court moment that occurred in two thousand six during
the NBA playoffs and before the Redeemed team got together
for its first practice. I've been doing this journalism thing
for half a century now. There's countless games I remember,
(02:24):
but there's also some great off the field, or in
this case, off the court memories. I'm gonna tell you
about one because it ties in so nicely to the
story of the O eight Redeemed team. But first I
want to introduce my co host j A A. Dandhee
and wonder do you have any of those moments? J
A One of those like wonderful off the court moments
that occurred around two thousand six. Well, yeah, very far
(02:47):
from the court and very far from the NBA. In
two thousand six, actually skipped out midway through the NBA
playoffs to go over to Germany to cover the World Cup,
the FIFA World Cup. I got a chance to go
to Dirk Nobiski's home town in Wurtzburg. Actually watched the
six game of the finals from a bar that they
kept open all night because at the time difference uh
and saw the heat finish off the Mavericks. A lot
(03:10):
of the locals were saying nine nine every time Dirk
would miss, so I was over there. So I actually
kind of missed out on the OH six playoffs. It's
a little bit of a blur for me. But I
had a great time. I went to the Offbra house
in Munich. I got to see the Olympic Stadium where
Jesse Owens's name is still embedded all these decades after
the nineteen thirty six Olympics. But those are my memories
(03:30):
from two thousand and six. It's weird. It's one of
the few times that I wasn't actually at the NBA Finals. Well,
mine comes from two thousand and six at around that
same time. While you were drinking beer with all the Germans.
I was actually at a dinner after the first round
of the playoffs. I was working on a book about
the uh the Phoenix Suns. They had just beaten the
(03:51):
Lakers an amazing seven game series. I guess every series
of Kobe's in has a way of being amazing. But
they went to dinner at this great pizza place in Phoenix,
and at the dinner was Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather. We
don't have to cue the music, but Mike Sawski and
Mike D'Antoni. And it was the first time Colangelo had
(04:12):
gathered the Redeemed team coaches together to talk about what
was going to happen later that summer when they finally practiced.
What I remember Jay was the excitement of these guys.
Uh Showsky just couldn't stop talking about d'antoni's offense, and
he would say, so, you run the wings all the
way to the corner right, and then D'Antoni would talk
(04:32):
about spacing, and then Colangelo would talk about some of
the players that he had already lined up and how
excited they were to see Lebron and d Wade and
they weren't going to see Kobe. You're gonna tell us why.
And then uh D'Antoni would talk about international ball because
he had been over in Italy for twenty years. Meanwhile,
the pizza, which is world class by the way, Chris
(04:54):
Bianco's pizza is recognized all around the country. The pizzas
flying back and forth, and I'm the only one eating
because these guys are just talking basketball. And what struck
me and that was the seeds of the Redeemed team,
that kind of enthusiasm. Here's these guys with like a
collective a hundred and twenty years of experience, and they
(05:16):
were just really, you know, anxious to get going. And
the other weird thing was you think about these timelines,
What a weird process this is to get an Olympic
basketball team together. Jay Colangelo was named in April of
two thousand five to be the new head of USA basketball.
He finally selects Showsky in October of two thousand five,
(05:41):
and you know, right at the beginning of that season,
but the players they're not even gonna get together until
July of two thousand six. You know, it's like asking
somebody to the prom in April of one year. And
then we're not gonna go until June of the following year.
A lot can go wrong, so what do The thing
you have to remember was how many players are involved
(06:03):
in this kind of program. You can't just say here's
the twelve guys we want because you never know what
injuries other circumstances are gonna take. So all these different
people are floating in and out of the Olympic program.
Chauncey Billips, Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen, Joe Johnson, Brad Miller,
and even agent zero Gilbert arenas Um. Now you have,
(06:27):
you know the guys you want, Lebron and d Wade,
and you certainly wanted Kobe, but for various reasons, Jay
Kobe was not around for the two thousand and six
team for the initial practices. What was going on with him? Well,
Kobe coming off what was his high scoring season of
his career average thirty five points per game that year,
(06:48):
but his knee wasn't quite right, so he goes to
get some of the scar tissue taken out of his knee.
He felt like he didn't have full range of motion
and so he couldn't participate with anything. The team USA
did that year was recovering from the knee surgery. You
couldn't even participate when Nike had a promotional event featuring
FC Barcelona and Ronald Dino was there and and all
(07:09):
the FC Barcelona players, and they wanted Kobe to kick
around the soccer ball and play with them, and he
couldn't even do that. And uh actually talked to him
that day and he sort of gave me the update
and how he's doing and what he thought about all
these rivalries that were brewing up. Remember, Shack had won
the championship that year in Miami's first post Kobe championship,
and that infamous video, that rap that he made about Kobe. Uh,
(07:33):
So I got Kobe's thoughts on that and about Dwayne Wade.
But what was amazing was how quickly there was a
sense of normalcy for him playing with Phil Jackson. And
as we went into deep detail how things ended between
Kobe and Phil in two thousand four. At that time,
it seemed impossible to imagine that they could ever reunite.
Phil had gone to management and asked for Kobe to
(07:55):
be traded earlier in that season. Kobe really didn't put
up a finger his instance, when Jerry bust. The Lakers
owner said that he wanted to get rid of Phil Jackson.
At the end of the season, they famously split up,
and then Rudy tom Jonovitch has brought in to coach
the Lakers. He lasts about a half a season when,
citing health reasons, he he steps down, turns the team
(08:16):
over to assistant coach Frank Hamblin, who had been a
long time assistant for Phil Jackson. And somehow the notion
of Phil Jackson coming back to coach the team. A
few people brought it up and it doesn't get shot down.
And when it first started circulating after Rudy tom Jonovich
has gone Tim Brown, who was a Laker former Laker
beat right at the l a times he emailed Phil
(08:36):
Jackson and it turns out Phil was hanging out in Australia.
Shout out to our producer Mark Francis from Australia. He's
hanging out with Luke Longley, the Australian center who played
for him in Chicago. And he responds in the email
says asked whether he's gonna return, and Phil says, I'm
mulling that over my mind. Luke and I are going
for a swim this PM in the Indian Ocean. Thanks
(08:59):
for the up to eight, Phil. So that's an ultimate
film meeting right there, the only guy, the only guy
ever to be swimming in the Indian Ocean with his
backup center while while the fate of the Lakers, you know,
the storied Lakers, is hanging in the air. A month later,
Jerry Bust, the owner, meets with the media and it's
clear that the door is wide open for Phil to return,
(09:22):
and that it looks like it's going to be on
the terms that Phil would want, which was about ten
million dollars a year, and uh, but specifically doesn't say it,
but you had the math and you connect the dots
and it's clear where this is leading. And then Jack
I'm driving home on Lincoln Boulevard after leaving the Laker
practice facility, and I look at my rear view mirror
(09:43):
and there's Phil Jackson behind me in his dark blue Porscha,
and I think, oh my god, I'm gonna follow him
wherever he goes. I'm gonna follow him, pull out and
get the scoop. This is gonna be the most talked
about story in the NBA. Once I talked to Phil
Jackson about coming back to the Lakers, and then he
gave me the slip. He somehow he was behind me
and he turned as I was going through the intersection,
(10:04):
and I tried to go circle back and try to
see if I could catch up with them, and I
lost him, but he was back for good. Soon enough,
they announced that he was gonna come back and coach
the Lakers, and improbably he and Kobe were reunited. Kobe
signed off on it and went on to have again
the high scoring season of his career, including the fabled
eighty one point games. So this was Kobe as we've
(10:26):
never seen him before, and Donald did realize he could
co exist with Phil Jackson. I think he also saw
that Phil Jackson's triangle offense was better suited for him.
Rudy tom Jonovic had Kobe in the middle of the
court and the help defenders could come from either side.
Under the triangle, Kobe was off on the wing and
he had the whole side cleared off, so it was
harder for the double team to come. And Kobe flourished
(10:49):
obviously had the best season of his career, but it
became evident that he was only going to sign off
on this if certain conditions were met. And Phil Jackson
told us about the meeting that he had in the
in the terms that were set for him to come
back and coach the Lakers with Kobe Bryant. The Lakers
made a novature and uh, you know, there are other
(11:10):
teams in the market New York, Sacramento, Cleveland, some other
teams that were, you know, kind of knocking at the
door and of interest. But I always said, I have
talked to Kobe first before I, you know, even think
about coming back. So we talked and I just said,
you know, what's the deal are you? Are you willing
(11:30):
to come back and play, uh and team up together
with me? And it's kind of an adventure. And he said, yeah,
but let's just keep everything between us. I know you
a lot of times use the press to talk and
use motivation by using the press to send a message
to players. Let's just keep it between us. And uh,
(11:51):
I said, okay, I can do that. So we came
back and literally formed a very strong bond. I was
giving him about leadership and uh, there's something I talked
to him about previously, um as as he grew up
through the game about his leadership and about being a
(12:11):
guy that you know, would be able to eat last
and let his uh his teammates go to the banquet
table first, so to speak. And you know he was
picking up on that idea. But it was always it
was always difficult for Kobe to put others in in
in front of himself, and we had to have a
(12:32):
number of talks during the course of those next two years,
but you know, it ended up we were usually sitting
on the plane across from each other and spending time
talking about the connection or the team or what was
needed to do to be the best we could be.
And uh, I really honored that and Jackie did hold
(12:53):
to that. So right before it turned out to be
the last game, Phil Jackson coach in the playoffs, I'd
noticed that he never bad mouth Kobe in the press,
which was very unusual for Bill. And I said, did
you have a deal with Kobe that you wouldn't talk
about him in the media, And he admitted, yeah, he did,
and uh he held to that he didn't talk bad
about Kobe publicly. That whole second run that they had together.
(13:16):
That Kobe in that oh five oh six season was
just crazy. It was Kobe unleashed. Yeah, he was on
another planet. And I went out to l A to
do a story on, uh, the scoring race, because it
really wasn't a race. We knew Kobe was gonna win,
but Iverson was coming into town, and the idea of
the story was this kind of two guys that just
score the freaking ball and we don't care, you know.
(13:40):
So I talked to Kobe about it and Kobe is
kind of smirking at me, you know, the Kobe smirk. Oh,
this is a race now, huh is that what it is? Well,
he gets in there on Friday night, goes for forty
eight against Iverson the next night, he's playing against the Clippers,
and he's got uh ten points at halftime, and I'm thinking,
(14:02):
I got this story done. You know, I'm staying at
a hotel. They closed down the restaurant early. I got
this story done. I can sneak out of here. You know,
Kobe's just mailing this one in. As I go out
and start to go out the door of the Stable Center,
Kobe starts going nuts. He gets forty in the second
half and ends up with fifty. I come back into
(14:24):
the uh the Stable Center, and someone who shall remain nameless,
although it's Rick Buker. Buker tells Kobe later, hey, you
know Jack left, you know, before you before you finished,
and Kobe was just heats so enjoyed this moment. I mean,
he was smirking about, oh yeah, oh this is a race,
(14:45):
so I'm really not thinking about that. And then he
gets out and goes for forty eight and fifty into
uh in consecutive nights. I mean, he was just he
was just a machine. But Mike Saski didn't have him
in the summer of Oath six. And one of the
guys that, uh, he's really counting on, you know, obviously
(15:05):
is Lebron. We're gonna talk about him. But one of
the other guys you mentioned before, and that is d Wade,
the guy Flashes he was known then, or the guy
Mike Shaski calls a calm rocket man. He just came
in and exploded offensively and defensively. He was remarkable, really
on that team. You're listening to Kobe, Lebron and the
(15:28):
redeem Team will be back in a minute, So talk
a little bit about Wade that season, Jay and the
conversations we've had off zoom I admitted he caught me
(15:48):
a little by surprise with that memorable two thousand three draft.
I guess I saw him as a little bit position
lists because although his size translated obviously to a guard,
it didn't seem like he was a shooter at all.
You know, I can't picture Dwayne having this knockdown jump
shot like most shooting guards would have. But you were
(16:10):
a little bit higher on his game when he came
into the league. Yeah. I love the fact that he
had taken Marquette to the Final Four. And I put
a big premium on college success and what you do
in an somebody's tournament. I know a lot of talent
evaluators and general managers in the NBA, their their work
has done a lot of times. At the time they
get to March, they're not gonna be swayed by a
few games here there. But to me, if you can
(16:31):
succeed under that pressure and under uh that situation where
all the lights and attention are on you the best
that there is at your level, that means something to me.
And most great players in the NBA had great success
in the n C Double A tournament, at least up
until the high school or the one and done era
of the last twenty or so years, and Wade was
(16:52):
one of those guys who we maybe hadn't heard of
him much before the tournament, but we certainly heard of
him after the tournament. And then within a couple of
years in the NBA, after Michael Jordan's advocated that the
title of best shooting guard the best perimeter player, and
it was still a big man dominated shack and and uh,
Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were the focal points of
(17:14):
the league, I'd say, but there was a battle for
the best perimeter player, and Wade had definitely inserted himself
in that conversation. During the two thousand five playoffs, I
went down and actually talked to Eddie Eddie Jones, who
was on the on Miami at that point, but it
played with Kobe since Kobe's rookie year in l A
and I asked him to compare the two and he
(17:36):
started squirming and he said he really couldn't pick between
the two of them. And then in two thousand and six,
of course, Wade wins the NBA Finals and his the
Finals MVP, and he's, uh, you know, he's he's up
there it's a legit conversation that we're having, So that's
sort of the backdrop as we get into that. Wade
had a stat where only he and Larry Bird we're
(17:59):
the only player is to put up. I think the
thresholds are like average twenty five points, eight rebound, seven assists,
and shoot better than and not one but two series
in the same postseason, and some of the other guys
who have done it in a single series, we're like
Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan's. So Wade's
in that all time company with the way he's playing,
(18:20):
and he's certainly in the conversation for best perimeter player
with Kobe at that moment. He almost created In the
two thousand six finals j which I covered, he almost
created this new position. It was like not shooting guard,
he was like slashing guard. They got they were down
two oh to the Mavericks. Game three, Wade gets forty
(18:41):
two points. Game four he gets forty three. Game six,
close out he gets thirty six. And the amazing thing
was the number of free throws he shot twenty five
in that game five, the exact total shot by the Mavericks.
You can imagine what Mark Cuban was like after that.
Then next game, the closeout game, he shoots twenty one
(19:04):
free throws, which was only two fewer than the MAVs,
who you know, kind of depend a little bit on Dirk's.
It was explicable, but Mark Cuban was just going insane.
But oh my god, but I have I've honestly rarely
seen maybe a couple of Jordan's. I've rarely seen a
championship series where you could say one guy really did it.
(19:28):
Shack was on that team, but he was smart enough
by then. If Dwayne has gone to the basket, get
the hell out of the lane because he's going to
get it there or he's going to uh, you know,
or he's going to get fouled. And and that was
Dwayne Wade around this time. Now you know he's coming
in also. But there's also Lebron there, and Lebron's coming
(19:49):
off a monster season like thirty one point seven rebounds,
six and a half assist. He's going to be a leader.
And while establishing exact team chemistry isn't possible since Kobe
isn't there. It's kind of like planning a dinner party
when you don't have the entree uh there yet to
(20:09):
bring in some food network. Uh, you know, action to it.
You can at least start to form. Lebron was always
a team guy. You know, Look, Lebron is going to
come in and uh and be a team guy. And
and that that forged. They started to forge a very
tight team. We're gonna talk in the next episode about
how that potentially could have changed when Kobe came in.
(20:32):
But Craig Miller, who has been the USA Basketball's head
of public relations since before the Dream Team, he reflected
on how really tight that team seemed to be. The
redeem Team seemed to be right from the beginning. I
think that in all my Olympic experiences from two thousand
and sixteen, it would rival the ninety two Dream Team.
(20:56):
And and they're very different because the ninety two Dream
Team didn't have a lot of guys that knew each
other really well, and they became close. But then the
two thousand and eight team, you know, d Wade, Lebron,
Chris Paul Carmelo, Anthony, Chris Bosh, they were already friends. Um,
(21:16):
and there's others. I'm probably missing a few that I'm
not thinking of, but the bonding of that team just
from the start, and part of it again was, you know,
they practiced together in two thousand and six. For the
most part, you had the same court group. Two thousand
and seven. You had eight of the players that would
go on to the Olympics were on the two thousand
and seven team, So you had a really really tight
(21:39):
team that liked each other. And you know, sometimes teams
jaeled differently. There's other teams that I remember that we're
very successful, but they didn't have maybe the chemistry. So Jay,
everybody's happy with or without Kobe. We're all together. It's
on to Japan, to the World Championship, where we're going
to kick ass. But well not so fast. We're going
to get to the game in a in it. But
(22:00):
there's something gone on around the league around this time, Jay,
and that is the adoption of the dress code before
the oh five oh six season, and it plugs in
to something that happened at these World Championships in Japan.
I was around the Suns at that time, and I
remember Mike D'Antoni making a joke about Steve Nash, and
(22:21):
his joke about Steve was Steve is gonna be in
violation even when he's under compliance, meaning that Steve's geen
and T shirt kind of punk rock look, you know,
really should be against the spirit of the dress code.
But I don't think the dress code was put in
for people like Steve Nash. It definitely wasn't aimed at
(22:43):
the Steve Nashes of the league. It was more about
the Allen Iverson's and trying to curtail the impact of
the Allen Iverson and what he represented, which was really
the hip hop influence and the hip hop generation taking
over the n b A. And it really was about
the NBA's i'd say, their last efforts to appeal to
the the white baby boomer generation and that element of
(23:06):
the fan base, and and the corporate sponsors of the
league who were uncomfortable to hip hop element. And and
you mentioned that it comes into play in the in
the oh six uh international competition. But also like this
entire redeemed team and this entire podcast has some roots
in two thousand four and that two thousand four Olympic team,
(23:27):
and reportedly there is a dinner. The Washington Post wrote
about this. In two thousand four, the Serbian national team
invited TEAMOSA to a dinner and serving players all show
up and they're wearing these matching sport coats. And the
Americans roll in and they've got baggy jeans and sweats
and loose clothing, clothes hanging all off of them. And
(23:50):
word got back to David Stern, the NBA commissioner in
New York, and he was not happy at all. And
this has been building, This sense has been building for
a while that we need to do something about the
image of our players and how they're presented. Because we're
long past the era of Michael Jordan's and Scottie Pippen
showing up to games and immaculately tailored suits. Guys are
(24:12):
dressing the way their generation is dressing now, uh, the
way the hip hop generation is dressing. And the league
thought it was a bad look, so they put in
the dress code formalized things a little bit. Of course,
there's there's all this backlash because of of the racial
undertones to this story, but I was actually okay with it.
(24:33):
I called John Thompson, the Georgetown coach who used to
make Alan Irison wear a coat and tied two games
and whenever that team traveled. When Iverson was at Georgetown,
and John's message that he thought the players would learn
is that, look, somebody's always in charge, and it ain't
always you, and so sometimes you gotta get in line
and do what the boss tells you to. And for me,
(24:56):
it was about not the players and the image that
they project, but the impact they could have on young
young African Americans who were going to be entering the
job market and didn't have the luxury of dressing however
they wanted if they wanted to be employed. But as
I recalled, Jay, you were a suit. You were aware
of suit to the game guy, right as I recall,
(25:17):
definitely I would wear suits. And that was sort of
a black sportswriter thing, going back to my early days
and seeing the way that Michael Wilbon dressed or or
the black sportswriters that covered the New York Knicks. They
were always well dressed, and so that's what I adopted.
But also from my early internships, I've been told, hey,
where a tie. If you're a young black male trying
(25:39):
to get into this business, you need to look the part.
Where a tie? And so even though the players fought
back about it, and yes, there were racial undertones to this,
and it was about trying to satisfy one aspect of
the fan base that they were probably in the process
of losing anyway. Uh. But to me, the unintended edging
(26:00):
cation that was John Thompson's freeze, the unintended education, UH,
could benefit young people who are watching this and would say,
you know what, this is the way you stress when
you're going to work. Because for the young people that
weren't gonna make it to the NBA, that was the
way they had to dress if they wanted to get
a job and be employed in corporate America. Meanwhile, I
remember an All Star weekend where I was at the
(26:23):
NBA party and I had on a sport coat, but
underneath I had on a T shirt, which I thought
was like appropriate dress T shirt, you know what I mean,
one of those class a silk T shirt. Maybe, yeah,
I guess you know. I thought I was rocking it
pretty well. I swear this is true that I took
one of my friends to it, and he still brings
(26:43):
it up to this day. I'm walking through the party
and from across the room Stern goes David Stern goes McCallum.
Nice T shirt. But I thought I don't know. I
just thought I was kind of a uh. I just
thought I was kind of a happening guy. But but anyway,
this whole collision of dress code and the new generation
(27:05):
led to a bit of a showdown during the World
Championships in Japan when old school Jerry Colangelo, who I'll
tell you what, j Jerry is never caught. I'm not
sure I've ever seen Jerry without at least a sport
code on, you know, never mind, uh usually even has
a tie. And this caused uh an interesting collision. Here's
(27:27):
coll Angelo talking about it. The Godfather I had one rule,
no headphones on your head in in uh in public,
and no scrapped you know, the strapped undershirts, none of that.
You know, you have to look appropriate when you're out
in public. So we're in support of Japan and that
(27:53):
was the site of the preliminary ground and I'm there
with the coaching staff and here Dwade, Wade, Carmelo and
Lebron with headphones and there the strap hundred shirts that
we didn't want. And so I was pretty upset about
(28:14):
that because that was the direct slap in the face.
So later that night, back at the hotel. We had
we had a meeting and you know, the three players,
coach k and myself. You know, that was that was
that was an insult. That shows a lack of respect.
(28:36):
Because as soon as they walked into the building with
the headphones on and dressed the way they were, a
couple hundred media turned around, and you know it's going
to be all over the world. And that's not what
I wanted. You know, I was trying to stay away
from that kind of thing. So at the meeting, um,
(28:58):
you know they're they're saying to me, know your relaxed, cool,
you know, we're you know, it's not a big deal. No,
I said, no, it is a big deal. When I
say we're gonna have one rule and that's the rule,
and some people choose to break it. You don't think
that's a big thing. I said, it's a big thing.
I said. Now, let me ask you a question, Dwayne,
(29:20):
do you want me to to to do put some
rules in like you have done in Miami under pat Riley.
Oh no, no, no, you didn't want that. And Carmelo
had the same kind of response, and I said, and
then Lebron in Cleveland, come on, give me a break.
So we have a rule. It's not asking too much,
(29:43):
and you guys let me done. Everybody apologized. That was
the end of it. I never had another problem. You're
listening to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team. We'll be
back in a minute. Team USA did have a problem
(30:09):
on the court in the semifinals of the tournament when
they were playing Greece, and Greece played a fantastic game.
The US was mediocre at best team says fourteen and
thirty four free toes. They made only nine of the
three point shots, whereas Grease made shots over the last
three periods. At one point, the lead was up to fourteen,
(30:31):
US got it down to five. Greece come down, hits
a three pointer and that was basically it. And they
just they killed the US, particularly in the third quarter.
They kept running the pick and roll and the US
just looked helpless defensively against it. They ran it over
and over again. And here's Chris Boss describing that helpless feeling.
(30:51):
It was so embarrassing losing to Greece, and hats off
to them. They played a great game. They ran one
play to close out the game. And as a player
sometimes you get into this situation to where it's like,
where is it's tenor and where are they coming from?
We gotta stop the bleeding, you know what I mean?
And we were just behind and everything that we did.
(31:13):
You can't be in between going you know, oh I'm
gonna trap, but I'm up, but I'm back. You know,
you have to make a decision. And after getting used
to seeing a lot of picking rolls, I said, you know,
let me be I remember Coach k says until me
one time. He probably doesn't even remember, but he was,
You're on the screen and roll you armed was so long, man. Oh,
(31:36):
I said, Okay, that's how I'm gonna play. So because
of that game, the US change its defensive strategy and
Bosch as We're Gonna see became increasingly important. But in retrospect,
though as depressing as the loss was, maybe it was crucial.
As Mike D'Antoni says, that was a big deal. And uh,
(31:56):
but we knew that it was gonna be hard. I mean,
you know, every game wasn't like it's not like you're
just gonna win by fourteen. When you play a forty
minute game with the three point line that close, Um,
that's what makes it exciting. Anything can happen, you know,
forty eight minute game and you you know, got a
longer three. Uh, it's a little bit the talent really
(32:18):
at the end of the game kind of comes out
and the best team, best talented team wins. But when
you were you know, spread like that, and uh, some
team could get hot, and uh that's what Greece did
to us. You know, we probably underestimated how they just
carved us up with a pick and roll. And that
was one thing that we had to sob in two
(32:38):
thousand and eight. Um, but it was a little bit
of a wake up call. So it might be cliche,
but it was a wake up call and it was
a memorable moment. And if you look around in it,
there's images of Carmelo, Anthony and Lebron James walking off
the court dejected lee while you see the Greeks gathered
in a circle happily celebrating, uh their victory, while the
(33:01):
Americans slink off in defeat. And then Carmela actually stuck
around a little bit longer and just kind of biting
his lip and looking around in the stands, and he
shared with us his memories of what that moment was
like for him, I'm standing on the court after the game.
Lebron is like, we're both standing on the court, and
(33:22):
I just remember like looking up and looking at the
stands and just seeing the crowd going crazy and things
being thrown on the corner. Just it was it wasn't
even a check to gold medal game. So but we
were the gold medal were the gold medal game for them.
So I really stand on the court and I looked
we we looked at each other, man Braun. It was
just like, yo, we gotta be back right. We are
(33:42):
never and we never want to feel that have this
feeling ever again. And the Godfather remembered too. And so
we lose the game, but it kind of made us
more committed, if if there's such a way to be
more committed coaches, chefs. He came off the floor, met
(34:03):
me eyeball to eyeball and said, I'm sorry. I apologized, Hey,
start your fault, but you know what we're this is
going to make us even more committed to what needs
to be done. I refused to look at the replay
of that game. I just did. A year later, in
(34:23):
oh seven, I'm on a plane going to China, in
terms of preparation for OH eight, and Sean Ford had
a copy of the game and he knew I hadn't
watched it. He says, do you want to watch it?
I said, no, I don't want to watch it. I
remember everything. I don't need to watch it. It's a
(34:43):
long fight. So eventually I watched it, and I was
just as upset after watching it as I was when
it happened originally. But it made a point and we
were all refocused, recommitted, and I think it helped us tremendously.
And Mike Schefsky had a couple takeaways from this loss.
(35:05):
The first was a lesson in international etiquette. Let's say
a protocol. And Jack, I don't know if you've experienced this,
but for example, college basketball coaches if they're playing a
nonconference opponent or if they're playing an incidable tournament, and
I think we see this sometimes in international basketball as well.
But what they'll do is, because they don't want to
confuse their players when they're going through the scouting reports
(35:28):
or watching film, they'll just refer to the opposing players
by numbers because they don't need to clutter the minds
of their players and having them thinking who's who and
trying to learn all these different names, many in foreign languages.
So rather than confuse them, they'll just use the number
and say number twenty two likes to shoot from the
left corner, or you know, switch when we've got thirteen
(35:53):
and fifteen on the pick and roll, so they'll just
go over like that. And Sawski was following that that
typical behavior, and so after the loss to Greece, when
he's meeting with the media in the press conference, he's
just referring to the players by their numbers, and the
international media in particular, they don't operate that way, and
(36:14):
they found it incredibly disrespectful for the United States coach
to not actually use the names of the Greek players
who just beating his teams. So Showski kind of got
beaten up over that. So he learned his lesson and
going forward, when whenever team you say it was an
international competition, he made sure that he used the names
of players when he was talking about the other team.
(36:35):
But the more important takeaway for him was learning and
being reminded that the team and the players felt this way,
that they would win together or lose together. And the
best part for coach k was that this was not
something that he had to instill. He saw them take
ownership of that himself. So that was one of the
(36:56):
things that he took away from that two thousand six
loss and took us losing in two thousand six to learn.
And but I'll tell you one thing from that. I
can remember after we lost to Greece, sitting at the
press table and their coach and a player and I'm
with Carmelo, and they asked them losing player first, and
(37:22):
Carmelo set the tone for what proved to be one
of our foundation blocks for the redeemed team, and that
was collective responsibility. He gave credit to the Greek team,
no excuses, and for the next few months there was
never any finger pointing by anybody. And I can remember
(37:45):
getting together to qualifying two thousand and seven, and I
told them how proud I was of him about collective responsibility,
and I said, one of our goals should be, now,
let's be collective responsible for winning. In other words, we
went and we lose together. That's collective responsibility. Let's just
(38:08):
win together and be collectively responsible. Okay, the game is over.
Two thousand six, summer has ended, on a bummer, but
a big change is about to come, Jake. Can you
hear it? Can you hear the noise? Can you hear
somebody coming? And they're sitting in the fields? Man, this
is real. You know, Uhhobe is playing. Kobe is here.
(38:32):
You know it's and you know you have to even
though you play against them. He has an aura. So
when you know he walked in the room, you're you know,
everything stops. I'm Jack McCallum, I'm j Thanks for listening
to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team and remember Season
one of the Dream Team Tapes, which talks about the
(38:53):
Dream Team in Barcelona, is still available on the I
Heart Radio app or wherever you get your favorite podcast.
(39:13):
The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever
you get your podcast. This season is written and hosted
(39:34):
by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dandee, Executive producer
Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast and Sean's
High toned for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director is
John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overseteghen Editing,
mixing and sound designed by Mark Francez. Verna Fields is
(39:57):
our technical producer, and our director of Marketing and business
Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts
The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with i Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here we don't represent
our country minutes, especially special Lebron James. We look for
(00:47):
an opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being
the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team
is as it is right. We're the rest team in
the world. We're the best team in the world. And
we put Basketball America basketball wheat which is at the top.
All Hello, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, all the
(01:21):
ships that see. Welcome to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team,
Episode six, which we're calling for reasons that will become clear.
Redeemed Team b K Before Kobe, I'm Jack McCallum. You've
already heard about the magnificent organizational job done by Jerry Colangelo,
the Godfather. You can hear that Godfather music cued in
(01:43):
by our wonderful technical person Mark Francis. The magnificent job
that Jerry did in putting the team together, in the
choice of Mike Shooski to coach this team. But this
episode centers on the year two thousand six, when the
team finally gets together, shows a lot of cohesi and
a teamwork, and promptly takes a nose dive in the
(02:03):
two thousand six World Championships in Japan. We'll be talking
about that, but I want to begin with an off
the court moment that occurred in two thousand six during
the NBA playoffs and before the Redeemed team got together
for its first practice. I've been doing this journalism thing
for half a century now. There's countless games I remember,
(02:24):
but there's also some great off the field, or in
this case, off the court memories. I'm gonna tell you
about one because it ties in so nicely to the
story of the O eight Redeemed team. But first I
want to introduce my co host j A A. Dandhee
and wonder do you have any of those moments? J
A One of those like wonderful off the court moments
that occurred around two thousand six. Well, yeah, very far
(02:47):
from the court and very far from the NBA. In
two thousand six, actually skipped out midway through the NBA
playoffs to go over to Germany to cover the World Cup,
the FIFA World Cup. I got a chance to go
to Dirk Nobiski's home town in Wurtzburg. Actually watched the
six game of the finals from a bar that they
kept open all night because at the time difference uh
and saw the heat finish off the Mavericks. A lot
(03:10):
of the locals were saying nine nine every time Dirk
would miss, so I was over there. So I actually
kind of missed out on the OH six playoffs. It's
a little bit of a blur for me. But I
had a great time. I went to the Offbra house
in Munich. I got to see the Olympic Stadium where
Jesse Owens's name is still embedded all these decades after
the nineteen thirty six Olympics. But those are my memories
(03:30):
from two thousand and six. It's weird. It's one of
the few times that I wasn't actually at the NBA Finals. Well,
mine comes from two thousand and six at around that
same time. While you were drinking beer with all the Germans.
I was actually at a dinner after the first round
of the playoffs. I was working on a book about
the uh the Phoenix Suns. They had just beaten the
(03:51):
Lakers an amazing seven game series. I guess every series
of Kobe's in has a way of being amazing. But
they went to dinner at this great pizza place in Phoenix,
and at the dinner was Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather. We
don't have to cue the music, but Mike Sawski and
Mike D'Antoni. And it was the first time Colangelo had
(04:12):
gathered the Redeemed team coaches together to talk about what
was going to happen later that summer when they finally practiced.
What I remember Jay was the excitement of these guys.
Uh Showsky just couldn't stop talking about d'antoni's offense, and
he would say, so, you run the wings all the
way to the corner right, and then D'Antoni would talk
(04:32):
about spacing, and then Colangelo would talk about some of
the players that he had already lined up and how
excited they were to see Lebron and d Wade and
they weren't going to see Kobe. You're gonna tell us why.
And then uh D'Antoni would talk about international ball because
he had been over in Italy for twenty years. Meanwhile,
the pizza, which is world class by the way, Chris
(04:54):
Bianco's pizza is recognized all around the country. The pizzas
flying back and forth, and I'm the only one eating
because these guys are just talking basketball. And what struck
me and that was the seeds of the Redeemed team,
that kind of enthusiasm. Here's these guys with like a
collective a hundred and twenty years of experience, and they
(05:16):
were just really, you know, anxious to get going. And
the other weird thing was you think about these timelines,
What a weird process this is to get an Olympic
basketball team together. Jay Colangelo was named in April of
two thousand five to be the new head of USA basketball.
He finally selects Showsky in October of two thousand five,
(05:41):
and you know, right at the beginning of that season,
but the players they're not even gonna get together until
July of two thousand six. You know, it's like asking
somebody to the prom in April of one year. And
then we're not gonna go until June of the following year.
A lot can go wrong, so what do The thing
you have to remember was how many players are involved
(06:03):
in this kind of program. You can't just say here's
the twelve guys we want because you never know what
injuries other circumstances are gonna take. So all these different
people are floating in and out of the Olympic program.
Chauncey Billips, Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen, Joe Johnson, Brad Miller,
and even agent zero Gilbert arenas Um. Now you have,
(06:27):
you know the guys you want, Lebron and d Wade,
and you certainly wanted Kobe, but for various reasons, Jay
Kobe was not around for the two thousand and six
team for the initial practices. What was going on with him? Well,
Kobe coming off what was his high scoring season of
his career average thirty five points per game that year,
(06:48):
but his knee wasn't quite right, so he goes to
get some of the scar tissue taken out of his knee.
He felt like he didn't have full range of motion
and so he couldn't participate with anything. The team USA
did that year was recovering from the knee surgery. You
couldn't even participate when Nike had a promotional event featuring
FC Barcelona and Ronald Dino was there and and all
(07:09):
the FC Barcelona players, and they wanted Kobe to kick
around the soccer ball and play with them, and he
couldn't even do that. And uh actually talked to him
that day and he sort of gave me the update
and how he's doing and what he thought about all
these rivalries that were brewing up. Remember, Shack had won
the championship that year in Miami's first post Kobe championship,
and that infamous video, that rap that he made about Kobe. Uh,
(07:33):
So I got Kobe's thoughts on that and about Dwayne Wade.
But what was amazing was how quickly there was a
sense of normalcy for him playing with Phil Jackson. And
as we went into deep detail how things ended between
Kobe and Phil in two thousand four. At that time,
it seemed impossible to imagine that they could ever reunite.
Phil had gone to management and asked for Kobe to
(07:55):
be traded earlier in that season. Kobe really didn't put
up a finger his instance, when Jerry bust. The Lakers
owner said that he wanted to get rid of Phil Jackson.
At the end of the season, they famously split up,
and then Rudy tom Jonovitch has brought in to coach
the Lakers. He lasts about a half a season when,
citing health reasons, he he steps down, turns the team
(08:16):
over to assistant coach Frank Hamblin, who had been a
long time assistant for Phil Jackson. And somehow the notion
of Phil Jackson coming back to coach the team. A
few people brought it up and it doesn't get shot down.
And when it first started circulating after Rudy tom Jonovich
has gone Tim Brown, who was a Laker former Laker
beat right at the l a times he emailed Phil
(08:36):
Jackson and it turns out Phil was hanging out in Australia.
Shout out to our producer Mark Francis from Australia. He's
hanging out with Luke Longley, the Australian center who played
for him in Chicago. And he responds in the email
says asked whether he's gonna return, and Phil says, I'm
mulling that over my mind. Luke and I are going
for a swim this PM in the Indian Ocean. Thanks
(08:59):
for the up to eight, Phil. So that's an ultimate
film meeting right there, the only guy, the only guy
ever to be swimming in the Indian Ocean with his
backup center while while the fate of the Lakers, you know,
the storied Lakers, is hanging in the air. A month later,
Jerry Bust, the owner, meets with the media and it's
clear that the door is wide open for Phil to return,
(09:22):
and that it looks like it's going to be on
the terms that Phil would want, which was about ten
million dollars a year, and uh, but specifically doesn't say it,
but you had the math and you connect the dots
and it's clear where this is leading. And then Jack
I'm driving home on Lincoln Boulevard after leaving the Laker
practice facility, and I look at my rear view mirror
(09:43):
and there's Phil Jackson behind me in his dark blue Porscha,
and I think, oh my god, I'm gonna follow him
wherever he goes. I'm gonna follow him, pull out and
get the scoop. This is gonna be the most talked
about story in the NBA. Once I talked to Phil
Jackson about coming back to the Lakers, and then he
gave me the slip. He somehow he was behind me
and he turned as I was going through the intersection,
(10:04):
and I tried to go circle back and try to
see if I could catch up with them, and I
lost him, but he was back for good. Soon enough,
they announced that he was gonna come back and coach
the Lakers, and improbably he and Kobe were reunited. Kobe
signed off on it and went on to have again
the high scoring season of his career, including the fabled
eighty one point games. So this was Kobe as we've
(10:26):
never seen him before, and Donald did realize he could
co exist with Phil Jackson. I think he also saw
that Phil Jackson's triangle offense was better suited for him.
Rudy tom Jonovic had Kobe in the middle of the
court and the help defenders could come from either side.
Under the triangle, Kobe was off on the wing and
he had the whole side cleared off, so it was
harder for the double team to come. And Kobe flourished
(10:49):
obviously had the best season of his career, but it
became evident that he was only going to sign off
on this if certain conditions were met. And Phil Jackson
told us about the meeting that he had in the
in the terms that were set for him to come
back and coach the Lakers with Kobe Bryant. The Lakers
made a novature and uh, you know, there are other
(11:10):
teams in the market New York, Sacramento, Cleveland, some other
teams that were, you know, kind of knocking at the
door and of interest. But I always said, I have
talked to Kobe first before I, you know, even think
about coming back. So we talked and I just said,
you know, what's the deal are you? Are you willing
(11:30):
to come back and play, uh and team up together
with me? And it's kind of an adventure. And he said, yeah,
but let's just keep everything between us. I know you
a lot of times use the press to talk and
use motivation by using the press to send a message
to players. Let's just keep it between us. And uh,
(11:51):
I said, okay, I can do that. So we came
back and literally formed a very strong bond. I was
giving him about leadership and uh, there's something I talked
to him about previously, um as as he grew up
through the game about his leadership and about being a
(12:11):
guy that you know, would be able to eat last
and let his uh his teammates go to the banquet
table first, so to speak. And you know he was
picking up on that idea. But it was always it
was always difficult for Kobe to put others in in
in front of himself, and we had to have a
(12:32):
number of talks during the course of those next two years,
but you know, it ended up we were usually sitting
on the plane across from each other and spending time
talking about the connection or the team or what was
needed to do to be the best we could be.
And uh, I really honored that and Jackie did hold
(12:53):
to that. So right before it turned out to be
the last game, Phil Jackson coach in the playoffs, I'd
noticed that he never bad mouth Kobe in the press,
which was very unusual for Bill. And I said, did
you have a deal with Kobe that you wouldn't talk
about him in the media, And he admitted, yeah, he did,
and uh he held to that he didn't talk bad
about Kobe publicly. That whole second run that they had together.
(13:16):
That Kobe in that oh five oh six season was
just crazy. It was Kobe unleashed. Yeah, he was on
another planet. And I went out to l A to
do a story on, uh, the scoring race, because it
really wasn't a race. We knew Kobe was gonna win,
but Iverson was coming into town, and the idea of
the story was this kind of two guys that just
score the freaking ball and we don't care, you know.
(13:40):
So I talked to Kobe about it and Kobe is
kind of smirking at me, you know, the Kobe smirk. Oh,
this is a race now, huh is that what it is? Well,
he gets in there on Friday night, goes for forty
eight against Iverson the next night, he's playing against the Clippers,
and he's got uh ten points at halftime, and I'm thinking,
(14:02):
I got this story done. You know, I'm staying at
a hotel. They closed down the restaurant early. I got
this story done. I can sneak out of here. You know,
Kobe's just mailing this one in. As I go out
and start to go out the door of the Stable Center,
Kobe starts going nuts. He gets forty in the second
half and ends up with fifty. I come back into
(14:24):
the uh the Stable Center, and someone who shall remain nameless,
although it's Rick Buker. Buker tells Kobe later, hey, you
know Jack left, you know, before you before you finished,
and Kobe was just heats so enjoyed this moment. I mean,
he was smirking about, oh yeah, oh this is a race,
(14:45):
so I'm really not thinking about that. And then he
gets out and goes for forty eight and fifty into
uh in consecutive nights. I mean, he was just he
was just a machine. But Mike Saski didn't have him
in the summer of Oath six. And one of the
guys that, uh, he's really counting on, you know, obviously
(15:05):
is Lebron. We're gonna talk about him. But one of
the other guys you mentioned before, and that is d Wade,
the guy Flashes he was known then, or the guy
Mike Shaski calls a calm rocket man. He just came
in and exploded offensively and defensively. He was remarkable, really
on that team. You're listening to Kobe, Lebron and the
(15:28):
redeem Team will be back in a minute, So talk
a little bit about Wade that season, Jay and the
conversations we've had off zoom I admitted he caught me
(15:48):
a little by surprise with that memorable two thousand three draft.
I guess I saw him as a little bit position
lists because although his size translated obviously to a guard,
it didn't seem like he was a shooter at all.
You know, I can't picture Dwayne having this knockdown jump
shot like most shooting guards would have. But you were
(16:10):
a little bit higher on his game when he came
into the league. Yeah. I love the fact that he
had taken Marquette to the Final Four. And I put
a big premium on college success and what you do
in an somebody's tournament. I know a lot of talent
evaluators and general managers in the NBA, their their work
has done a lot of times. At the time they
get to March, they're not gonna be swayed by a
few games here there. But to me, if you can
(16:31):
succeed under that pressure and under uh that situation where
all the lights and attention are on you the best
that there is at your level, that means something to me.
And most great players in the NBA had great success
in the n C Double A tournament, at least up
until the high school or the one and done era
of the last twenty or so years, and Wade was
(16:52):
one of those guys who we maybe hadn't heard of
him much before the tournament, but we certainly heard of
him after the tournament. And then within a couple of
years in the NBA, after Michael Jordan's advocated that the
title of best shooting guard the best perimeter player, and
it was still a big man dominated shack and and uh,
Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were the focal points of
(17:14):
the league, I'd say, but there was a battle for
the best perimeter player, and Wade had definitely inserted himself
in that conversation. During the two thousand five playoffs, I
went down and actually talked to Eddie Eddie Jones, who
was on the on Miami at that point, but it
played with Kobe since Kobe's rookie year in l A
and I asked him to compare the two and he
(17:36):
started squirming and he said he really couldn't pick between
the two of them. And then in two thousand and six,
of course, Wade wins the NBA Finals and his the
Finals MVP, and he's, uh, you know, he's he's up
there it's a legit conversation that we're having, So that's
sort of the backdrop as we get into that. Wade
had a stat where only he and Larry Bird we're
(17:59):
the only player is to put up. I think the
thresholds are like average twenty five points, eight rebound, seven assists,
and shoot better than and not one but two series
in the same postseason, and some of the other guys
who have done it in a single series, we're like
Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan's. So Wade's
in that all time company with the way he's playing,
(18:20):
and he's certainly in the conversation for best perimeter player
with Kobe at that moment. He almost created In the
two thousand six finals j which I covered, he almost
created this new position. It was like not shooting guard,
he was like slashing guard. They got they were down
two oh to the Mavericks. Game three, Wade gets forty
(18:41):
two points. Game four he gets forty three. Game six,
close out he gets thirty six. And the amazing thing
was the number of free throws he shot twenty five
in that game five, the exact total shot by the Mavericks.
You can imagine what Mark Cuban was like after that.
Then next game, the closeout game, he shoots twenty one
(19:04):
free throws, which was only two fewer than the MAVs,
who you know, kind of depend a little bit on Dirk's.
It was explicable, but Mark Cuban was just going insane.
But oh my god, but I have I've honestly rarely
seen maybe a couple of Jordan's. I've rarely seen a
championship series where you could say one guy really did it.
(19:28):
Shack was on that team, but he was smart enough
by then. If Dwayne has gone to the basket, get
the hell out of the lane because he's going to
get it there or he's going to uh, you know,
or he's going to get fouled. And and that was
Dwayne Wade around this time. Now you know he's coming
in also. But there's also Lebron there, and Lebron's coming
(19:49):
off a monster season like thirty one point seven rebounds,
six and a half assist. He's going to be a leader.
And while establishing exact team chemistry isn't possible since Kobe
isn't there. It's kind of like planning a dinner party
when you don't have the entree uh there yet to
(20:09):
bring in some food network. Uh, you know, action to it.
You can at least start to form. Lebron was always
a team guy. You know, Look, Lebron is going to
come in and uh and be a team guy. And
and that that forged. They started to forge a very
tight team. We're gonna talk in the next episode about
how that potentially could have changed when Kobe came in.
(20:32):
But Craig Miller, who has been the USA Basketball's head
of public relations since before the Dream Team, he reflected
on how really tight that team seemed to be. The
redeem Team seemed to be right from the beginning. I
think that in all my Olympic experiences from two thousand
and sixteen, it would rival the ninety two Dream Team.
(20:56):
And and they're very different because the ninety two Dream
Team didn't have a lot of guys that knew each
other really well, and they became close. But then the
two thousand and eight team, you know, d Wade, Lebron,
Chris Paul Carmelo, Anthony, Chris Bosh, they were already friends. Um,
(21:16):
and there's others. I'm probably missing a few that I'm
not thinking of, but the bonding of that team just
from the start, and part of it again was, you know,
they practiced together in two thousand and six. For the
most part, you had the same court group. Two thousand
and seven. You had eight of the players that would
go on to the Olympics were on the two thousand
and seven team, So you had a really really tight
(21:39):
team that liked each other. And you know, sometimes teams
jaeled differently. There's other teams that I remember that we're
very successful, but they didn't have maybe the chemistry. So Jay,
everybody's happy with or without Kobe. We're all together. It's
on to Japan, to the World Championship, where we're going
to kick ass. But well not so fast. We're going
to get to the game in a in it. But
(22:00):
there's something gone on around the league around this time, Jay,
and that is the adoption of the dress code before
the oh five oh six season, and it plugs in
to something that happened at these World Championships in Japan.
I was around the Suns at that time, and I
remember Mike D'Antoni making a joke about Steve Nash, and
(22:21):
his joke about Steve was Steve is gonna be in
violation even when he's under compliance, meaning that Steve's geen
and T shirt kind of punk rock look, you know,
really should be against the spirit of the dress code.
But I don't think the dress code was put in
for people like Steve Nash. It definitely wasn't aimed at
(22:43):
the Steve Nashes of the league. It was more about
the Allen Iverson's and trying to curtail the impact of
the Allen Iverson and what he represented, which was really
the hip hop influence and the hip hop generation taking
over the n b A. And it really was about
the NBA's i'd say, their last efforts to appeal to
the the white baby boomer generation and that element of
(23:06):
the fan base, and and the corporate sponsors of the
league who were uncomfortable to hip hop element. And and
you mentioned that it comes into play in the in
the oh six uh international competition. But also like this
entire redeemed team and this entire podcast has some roots
in two thousand four and that two thousand four Olympic team,
(23:27):
and reportedly there is a dinner. The Washington Post wrote
about this. In two thousand four, the Serbian national team
invited TEAMOSA to a dinner and serving players all show
up and they're wearing these matching sport coats. And the
Americans roll in and they've got baggy jeans and sweats
and loose clothing, clothes hanging all off of them. And
(23:50):
word got back to David Stern, the NBA commissioner in
New York, and he was not happy at all. And
this has been building, This sense has been building for
a while that we need to do something about the
image of our players and how they're presented. Because we're
long past the era of Michael Jordan's and Scottie Pippen
showing up to games and immaculately tailored suits. Guys are
(24:12):
dressing the way their generation is dressing now, uh, the
way the hip hop generation is dressing. And the league
thought it was a bad look, so they put in
the dress code formalized things a little bit. Of course,
there's there's all this backlash because of of the racial
undertones to this story, but I was actually okay with it.
(24:33):
I called John Thompson, the Georgetown coach who used to
make Alan Irison wear a coat and tied two games
and whenever that team traveled. When Iverson was at Georgetown,
and John's message that he thought the players would learn
is that, look, somebody's always in charge, and it ain't
always you, and so sometimes you gotta get in line
and do what the boss tells you to. And for me,
(24:56):
it was about not the players and the image that
they project, but the impact they could have on young
young African Americans who were going to be entering the
job market and didn't have the luxury of dressing however
they wanted if they wanted to be employed. But as
I recalled, Jay, you were a suit. You were aware
of suit to the game guy, right as I recall,
(25:17):
definitely I would wear suits. And that was sort of
a black sportswriter thing, going back to my early days
and seeing the way that Michael Wilbon dressed or or
the black sportswriters that covered the New York Knicks. They
were always well dressed, and so that's what I adopted.
But also from my early internships, I've been told, hey,
where a tie. If you're a young black male trying
(25:39):
to get into this business, you need to look the part.
Where a tie? And so even though the players fought
back about it, and yes, there were racial undertones to this,
and it was about trying to satisfy one aspect of
the fan base that they were probably in the process
of losing anyway. Uh. But to me, the unintended edging
(26:00):
cation that was John Thompson's freeze, the unintended education, UH,
could benefit young people who are watching this and would say,
you know what, this is the way you stress when
you're going to work. Because for the young people that
weren't gonna make it to the NBA, that was the
way they had to dress if they wanted to get
a job and be employed in corporate America. Meanwhile, I
remember an All Star weekend where I was at the
(26:23):
NBA party and I had on a sport coat, but
underneath I had on a T shirt, which I thought
was like appropriate dress T shirt, you know what I mean,
one of those class a silk T shirt. Maybe, yeah,
I guess you know. I thought I was rocking it
pretty well. I swear this is true that I took
one of my friends to it, and he still brings
(26:43):
it up to this day. I'm walking through the party
and from across the room Stern goes David Stern goes McCallum.
Nice T shirt. But I thought I don't know. I
just thought I was kind of a uh. I just
thought I was kind of a happening guy. But but anyway,
this whole collision of dress code and the new generation
(27:05):
led to a bit of a showdown during the World
Championships in Japan when old school Jerry Colangelo, who I'll
tell you what, j Jerry is never caught. I'm not
sure I've ever seen Jerry without at least a sport
code on, you know, never mind, uh usually even has
a tie. And this caused uh an interesting collision. Here's
(27:27):
coll Angelo talking about it. The Godfather I had one rule,
no headphones on your head in in uh in public,
and no scrapped you know, the strapped undershirts, none of that.
You know, you have to look appropriate when you're out
in public. So we're in support of Japan and that
(27:53):
was the site of the preliminary ground and I'm there
with the coaching staff and here Dwade, Wade, Carmelo and
Lebron with headphones and there the strap hundred shirts that
we didn't want. And so I was pretty upset about
(28:14):
that because that was the direct slap in the face.
So later that night, back at the hotel. We had
we had a meeting and you know, the three players,
coach k and myself. You know, that was that was
that was an insult. That shows a lack of respect.
(28:36):
Because as soon as they walked into the building with
the headphones on and dressed the way they were, a
couple hundred media turned around, and you know it's going
to be all over the world. And that's not what
I wanted. You know, I was trying to stay away
from that kind of thing. So at the meeting, um,
(28:58):
you know they're they're saying to me, know your relaxed, cool,
you know, we're you know, it's not a big deal. No,
I said, no, it is a big deal. When I
say we're gonna have one rule and that's the rule,
and some people choose to break it. You don't think
that's a big thing. I said, it's a big thing.
I said. Now, let me ask you a question, Dwayne,
(29:20):
do you want me to to to do put some
rules in like you have done in Miami under pat Riley.
Oh no, no, no, you didn't want that. And Carmelo
had the same kind of response, and I said, and
then Lebron in Cleveland, come on, give me a break.
So we have a rule. It's not asking too much,
(29:43):
and you guys let me done. Everybody apologized. That was
the end of it. I never had another problem. You're
listening to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team. We'll be
back in a minute. Team USA did have a problem
(30:09):
on the court in the semifinals of the tournament when
they were playing Greece, and Greece played a fantastic game.
The US was mediocre at best team says fourteen and
thirty four free toes. They made only nine of the
three point shots, whereas Grease made shots over the last
three periods. At one point, the lead was up to fourteen,
(30:31):
US got it down to five. Greece come down, hits
a three pointer and that was basically it. And they
just they killed the US, particularly in the third quarter.
They kept running the pick and roll and the US
just looked helpless defensively against it. They ran it over
and over again. And here's Chris Boss describing that helpless feeling.
(30:51):
It was so embarrassing losing to Greece, and hats off
to them. They played a great game. They ran one
play to close out the game. And as a player
sometimes you get into this situation to where it's like,
where is it's tenor and where are they coming from?
We gotta stop the bleeding, you know what I mean?
And we were just behind and everything that we did.
(31:13):
You can't be in between going you know, oh I'm
gonna trap, but I'm up, but I'm back. You know,
you have to make a decision. And after getting used
to seeing a lot of picking rolls, I said, you know,
let me be I remember Coach k says until me
one time. He probably doesn't even remember, but he was,
You're on the screen and roll you armed was so long, man. Oh,
(31:36):
I said, Okay, that's how I'm gonna play. So because
of that game, the US change its defensive strategy and
Bosch as We're Gonna see became increasingly important. But in retrospect,
though as depressing as the loss was, maybe it was crucial.
As Mike D'Antoni says, that was a big deal. And uh,
(31:56):
but we knew that it was gonna be hard. I mean,
you know, every game wasn't like it's not like you're
just gonna win by fourteen. When you play a forty
minute game with the three point line that close, Um,
that's what makes it exciting. Anything can happen, you know,
forty eight minute game and you you know, got a
longer three. Uh, it's a little bit the talent really
(32:18):
at the end of the game kind of comes out
and the best team, best talented team wins. But when
you were you know, spread like that, and uh, some
team could get hot, and uh that's what Greece did
to us. You know, we probably underestimated how they just
carved us up with a pick and roll. And that
was one thing that we had to sob in two
(32:38):
thousand and eight. Um, but it was a little bit
of a wake up call. So it might be cliche,
but it was a wake up call and it was
a memorable moment. And if you look around in it,
there's images of Carmelo, Anthony and Lebron James walking off
the court dejected lee while you see the Greeks gathered
in a circle happily celebrating, uh their victory, while the
(33:01):
Americans slink off in defeat. And then Carmela actually stuck
around a little bit longer and just kind of biting
his lip and looking around in the stands, and he
shared with us his memories of what that moment was
like for him, I'm standing on the court after the game.
Lebron is like, we're both standing on the court, and
(33:22):
I just remember like looking up and looking at the
stands and just seeing the crowd going crazy and things
being thrown on the corner. Just it was it wasn't
even a check to gold medal game. So but we
were the gold medal were the gold medal game for them.
So I really stand on the court and I looked
we we looked at each other, man Braun. It was
just like, yo, we gotta be back right. We are
(33:42):
never and we never want to feel that have this
feeling ever again. And the Godfather remembered too. And so
we lose the game, but it kind of made us
more committed, if if there's such a way to be
more committed coaches, chefs. He came off the floor, met
(34:03):
me eyeball to eyeball and said, I'm sorry. I apologized, Hey,
start your fault, but you know what we're this is
going to make us even more committed to what needs
to be done. I refused to look at the replay
of that game. I just did. A year later, in
(34:23):
oh seven, I'm on a plane going to China, in
terms of preparation for OH eight, and Sean Ford had
a copy of the game and he knew I hadn't
watched it. He says, do you want to watch it?
I said, no, I don't want to watch it. I
remember everything. I don't need to watch it. It's a
(34:43):
long fight. So eventually I watched it, and I was
just as upset after watching it as I was when
it happened originally. But it made a point and we
were all refocused, recommitted, and I think it helped us tremendously.
And Mike Schefsky had a couple takeaways from this loss.
(35:05):
The first was a lesson in international etiquette. Let's say
a protocol. And Jack, I don't know if you've experienced this,
but for example, college basketball coaches if they're playing a
nonconference opponent or if they're playing an incidable tournament, and
I think we see this sometimes in international basketball as well.
But what they'll do is, because they don't want to
confuse their players when they're going through the scouting reports
(35:28):
or watching film, they'll just refer to the opposing players
by numbers because they don't need to clutter the minds
of their players and having them thinking who's who and
trying to learn all these different names, many in foreign languages.
So rather than confuse them, they'll just use the number
and say number twenty two likes to shoot from the
left corner, or you know, switch when we've got thirteen
(35:53):
and fifteen on the pick and roll, so they'll just
go over like that. And Sawski was following that that
typical behavior, and so after the loss to Greece, when
he's meeting with the media in the press conference, he's
just referring to the players by their numbers, and the
international media in particular, they don't operate that way, and
(36:14):
they found it incredibly disrespectful for the United States coach
to not actually use the names of the Greek players
who just beating his teams. So Showski kind of got
beaten up over that. So he learned his lesson and
going forward, when whenever team you say it was an
international competition, he made sure that he used the names
of players when he was talking about the other team.
(36:35):
But the more important takeaway for him was learning and
being reminded that the team and the players felt this way,
that they would win together or lose together. And the
best part for coach k was that this was not
something that he had to instill. He saw them take
ownership of that himself. So that was one of the
(36:56):
things that he took away from that two thousand six
loss and took us losing in two thousand six to learn.
And but I'll tell you one thing from that. I
can remember after we lost to Greece, sitting at the
press table and their coach and a player and I'm
with Carmelo, and they asked them losing player first, and
(37:22):
Carmelo set the tone for what proved to be one
of our foundation blocks for the redeemed team, and that
was collective responsibility. He gave credit to the Greek team,
no excuses, and for the next few months there was
never any finger pointing by anybody. And I can remember
(37:45):
getting together to qualifying two thousand and seven, and I
told them how proud I was of him about collective responsibility,
and I said, one of our goals should be, now,
let's be collective responsible for winning. In other words, we
went and we lose together. That's collective responsibility. Let's just
(38:08):
win together and be collectively responsible. Okay, the game is over.
Two thousand six, summer has ended, on a bummer, but
a big change is about to come, Jake. Can you
hear it? Can you hear the noise? Can you hear
somebody coming? And they're sitting in the fields? Man, this
is real. You know, Uhhobe is playing. Kobe is here.
(38:32):
You know it's and you know you have to even
though you play against them. He has an aura. So
when you know he walked in the room, you're you know,
everything stops. I'm Jack McCallum, I'm j Thanks for listening
to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team and remember Season
one of the Dream Team Tapes, which talks about the
(38:53):
Dream Team in Barcelona, is still available on the I
Heart Radio app or wherever you get your favorite podcast.
(39:13):
The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever
you get your podcast. This season is written and hosted
(39:34):
by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dandee, Executive producer
Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast and Sean's
High toned for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director is
John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overseteghen Editing,
mixing and sound designed by Mark Francez. Verna Fields is
(39:57):
our technical producer, and our director of Marketing and business
Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts
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