March 9, 2021 • 37 mins
With USA Basketball in shambles, they turn to "The Godfather," Jerry Colangelo, who proved to be instrumental in reviving the program. There are other "Great Men" with courage, intellect, and leadership that made The Redeem Team great, including of course Mike Krzyzewski, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James, but the first Great Man to come along and change the course of USA basketball's history was Jerry Colangelo. Colangelo has owned, general managed, and coached the Phoenix Suns basketball team, he was Chairman of Basketball Operations for the Philadelphia 76ers, he owned the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball, the Phoenix Mercury of the WNBA, the Arizona Sandsharks of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, the Arizona Rattlers of the Indoor Football League, he was instrumental in relocating the Winnipeg Jets hockey team to become the Phoenix Coyotes, he built a basketball program at Grand Canyon University, and he's been president of the NBA Board of Governors. And that's not even the most interesting part of his bio. This episode also includes stories and interviews with Portland Trailblazer and Redeem Teamer Carmelo Anthony, Redeem Teamer and now assistant coach for the LA Lakers Jason Kidd, NBA champion and Redeem Teamer Deron Williams, and winningest coach in NBA history Phil Jackson, among others.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here represent our country minutes,
especially special Lebron James. We look for an opportunity of
(00:47):
the weekend on Alma being the best in the world.
I guess the Redeem Team is it is right, We're
the rest team in the world. We're the best team
in the world. We put Basketball America basketball Wheal defeat,
which is at the time can you hear that Godfather
(01:21):
like music in the background? I'm Jack McCallum, and we're
here in episode four of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed
Team to talk about a Godfather figure who did a
humpty dumpty repair act on an American basketball program that
had fallen on hard times. Now, there are many reasons
why the Redeemed Team became the Redeemed Team, but one
(01:45):
of the big ones is Jerry Colangelo the Godfather, and
that's the title of episode four. My co host is
Jay Adonde, who did the great podcast Beyond the Last Dance? Jay,
what has been your connection with the Godfather? Over the
anybody that covered the league pretty much came into contact
with Jerry Colangelo exactly. He was impossible to avoid if
(02:08):
you're around basketball basketball in general, in particularly the NBA.
But I'd say the first time I really got a
taste of his power, and that was in two thousand
at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in Phoenix
that year and we had given one of our Pioneer Awards.
The Sports Task Force gives Pioneer awards for people of
groundbreaking in that region, and so Jerry got one. Connie Hawkins,
(02:32):
the Great Phoenix sun Star was was another recipient that year,
and we had bought tickets to an Arizona Diamondbacks game.
Of course, Colangelo was the man in charge of the Diamondbacks.
So we bought a block of tickets and we let
Jerry know about it, and he said, how many tickets
you get? We're like twenty in our block. He said,
I see way more than twenty people here. Do you.
You guys need some more tickets? Like okay, Henny whips
(02:54):
out his cell phone. He's on the phone. He says,
what about a sweet you guys want to sweep? Okay? Sure?
What do you want in there? Want some beers? Want
some chickens, some nachos? What do you want? Put in
our order? And boom, like in thirty seconds, done and
we go there. We had a suite. We get in there,
there's a big tub of beers. Diamondbacks were playing the
(03:15):
cub Sammy Sosa hit a couple of home runs. It
might have been the best time I've ever had at
a baseball game. And Jerry Colangelo made it happen in
about thirty seconds, just from start to finish. He hooked
it up like that. So that's the power of Jerry Colangelo.
I got a quick lesson in that. Yep, that's what
you do when you're the godfather. But you know, before
we hear what he's done. Here's a very quick bio.
(03:37):
Jerry has owned, general, managed, and coached the Phoenix Suns.
He has owned the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball,
the Phoenix Mercury of the w n b A, the
Arizona sand Sharks of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, the
Arizona Rattlers of the Arena Football League, and he was
instrumental in relocating the Winnipeg Jets to become the Phoenix Coyotes.
(04:01):
He built a program at Grand Canyon University, he was
chairman of the basketball operation for the seventies sixers, and
he's been president of the NBA Board of Governors. And
that's not even the most interesting part of his bio.
J A. I'm not gonna say how old he is,
that's up to him. But let's just say he was
around long enough that he was going to be a
(04:22):
teammate of Wilt Chamberlain at the University of Kansas. This
was after wild had been there and Will decided to
leave for the Harlem Globetrotters, and Jerry took one look
around and decided, without Wilt Chamberlain, I don't want to
be there either. He transferred to the University of Illinois,
where he became a very good big ten basketball player.
(04:44):
So for a little background on why Jerry was so important,
we have to go back to those years around two
thousand three, two thousand four, JA, what was going on
why was he so needed to come along and save
the USA basketball program. Well, USA basketball falling on hard times,
and it took about a decade since the advent of
(05:05):
NBA players into USA Basketball, and they were riding high
through three Olympics, but then it had fallen in and
starting with the two thousand two World Championships in America
in Indianapolis, the US losers there, and then of course
the fiasco of the third place finish in Athens at
the Olympics there in two thousand four. So just throwing
(05:27):
out NBA players wasn't enough. We needed a stronger regiment
and USA basketball needed more buy in from the top players.
It was clear that in order to win the gold
medal again they needed the best of American basketball players
to participate, not just American basketball players. That wasn't gonna
cut it anymore. They needed someone to get everyone in line,
(05:48):
to get buy in, to bring structure an organization, and
that's where Jerry Colangelo came in. Now, there's a theory
from the nineteenth century called the Great Man theory. Thomas
Carlyle thought of it, and he's Scottish, and I'm Scottish,
and that's probably why I remember it. Carlisle theorized that
history could be explained by the impact of great men,
(06:10):
that they come along at times of most need, that
they had divine inspiration, they had couraged, they had intellect,
and they had leadership to make it really happen. Where
the hell they are during the pandemic, By the way,
I have no idea, But anyway, in terms of the
great man theory, if you look at the Redeemed team,
I suppose we could say it would be Mike Shaski,
(06:30):
who were going to be talking about in the next episode,
or Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, who we've already discussed.
But the first one to come along to change the
course of USA basketball's history was Jerry Colangelo. And when
the invitation came along to lead USA basketball and reorganized
the program, it was a very inopportune time for Mr. Colangelo.
(06:54):
First of all, All four was a very traumatic year
for me outside of watching the USA basketball team UH
not do very well in Greece. But I had made
a decision to h to sell the Suns that took
place in the middle of oh four. Not long after that,
(07:14):
I stepped down with the Diamondbacks, a few months later,
I was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. I
took my wife to Europe got involved in the street
fight on the streets of Paris when she was attacked
by two muggers, and that was an interesting evening because
we had plans in Paris, and as it turned up,
(07:37):
my eyes were not in good shape when I was
pepper spray during this fight, and we had to spend
the night in the hotel. I did order a bottle
of champagne and pour two glasses, and I said to
my wife, we were both sixty five at the time.
I said, you know, for two sixty five year olds,
we handled ourselves pretty well. And I'm referring to the
(07:59):
fight that took place in front of a five star
hotel in Paris. And so I had a speaking engagement
in Chicago on the way back, and I made the comment,
I said, you know, it's been a very traumatic year.
There's still a little bit of time left in this year.
What's next? And soon thereafter I was advised I had
(08:21):
prostate cancer and had to make some major decisions in
terms of my health. Now. I was around Jerry in
those years a lot because I was researching a book
on the Phoenix Suns, which became seven seconds or less.
And I was impressed by the way the way Jerry
he had just sold the team, as he mentioned in
his earlier quote to Robert Sarver, who did things, let's
(08:43):
just say a little differently now. He did leave his
son in place, Brian Colangelo was GM of the Sons.
He later left also, But for a guy that was
really at the center of things, Jerry left that team
alone after he had sold it to Robert Sarver. Otherwise, though,
he was always in the middle of the action, rules committees, controversies,
(09:04):
TV negotiations, and I said earlier, he was chairman of
the Board of Governors of the NBA. And I was
surprised when we asked him why he had never been
invited before two thousand five to get involved with the
Olympic program. Here's what he said, I don't know, I'm
not sure. I'm not sure there was ever an invitation
(09:26):
to be involved with USA basketball. Well, there was a
need to have him now, and David Stern, then the commissioner,
usually left most of the work with USA Basketball to
his trusted lieutenant Russ Grantick, who is by the way
one of the truly underrated figures in our Olympic basketball program.
And one day David Stern called the Godfather. We tease
(09:48):
this in the last episode, but here it is again.
He said, Jerry, look, I know you were just as
unhappy as me and everyone else regarding the showing in
Greece and all the things it and there needs to
be some change. Would you be willing to take on
the responsibility for USA Basketball? And I'm instinctive and I
(10:08):
basically said, yeah, I'll do it, but I have a
couple of conditions, and he said what are they. I said,
one full autonomy. I'll pick the coaches and the players
in this whole system, which was a little too political
for me, uh in terms of the selection process who
(10:29):
went by the wayside. He said, you got it. What's
number two? And I said, I don't want to hear
about a budget and he went off in typical Stern fashion,
and I let him go and I said, David, are
you finished? He said yes. I said it's still number two,
and he acquiesced, and then I assured him, don't worry
about it. I'll raise the money now. During that prior
(10:52):
quad they raised nine million dollars to cover expenses for
USA Basketball. During my first quad, we raised thirty six
million and there was no looking back. So that's how
it all started. And that was all in the early
days of All five. That's true. Money was never much
(11:14):
of an object for Jerry, either spending it or raising it.
And I think you came across that particular aspect of
Jerry Colangelo. J And one time I was out in
Phoenix and there was an event of fundraising event for
the Basketball Hall of Fame, which, as you mentioned, Jerry
Clangelo's chairman of the board. I don't know what his
title is, it always sounds appropriate to call him the
chairman of the board. And so he got in there
(11:37):
and he just hounded people. He got up there when
it was time to really bring in the bucks at
the end of this this banquet. He just ground people
down and forced them. And I've heard stories that he's
done fundraising events where he'll literally locked the doors to
the room and say, you guys are leaving here until
we hit our target figure of fundraising. So he is
(11:57):
a phenomenal fundraiser. You just don't want to go against him,
right if he asked you for something, you don't want
to say no. He's pretty impossible to refuse. Yeah, he's
a hard guy to refuse. I mean he he now
heads the Hall of Fame. He really turned around, by
the way, their their finances, and pretty much a month
doesn't go by that I don't get a fundraising letter
from the from the Hall of Fame. The other thing
(12:20):
about Jerry, by the way, and one of the reasons
I always enjoyed talking to him and and being in
his circle, was he sort of like the old time
boxing promoters. He doesn't care what you say about him,
just say something. He doesn't take things personal. He doesn't
held grudges. He's had some negative publicity along the way,
(12:40):
but he's always rolled with it and never held that
against anyone. Later now, you asked him during our long
interview with him, why was it important for him to
answer this call to USA Basketball. Well, I was, I
guess at the moment, I felt that I was in
a position to do something like that, and it was
(13:02):
great timing in my opinion. You know, you sell the
Sun's you step down in baseball, So I was available,
let's put it that way, even with my full plate
of other things. I liked it. I liked the challenge,
you know, in terms of taking on that responsibility, and
it was you know, I'm pretty open about this. I'm
(13:24):
proud to be an American. I was unhappy about the
way people were looking at us as Americans, as athletes,
and in particular our basketball people in Greece, and it
was a little shameful in my opinion. And so the
opportunity to represent your country, which is a lot different
than the City States, and not just something domestic, but
(13:49):
this was representing your country on the world stage and
having a chance to to make a statement. You're listening
to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team be back in
a minute. So the first order of business for any
new executive is to quote change the culture unquote. Now
(14:11):
that's a vague term, but a lot of times in sports,
I think j what that means is to get a
new coach, get a coach that's going to set the
right tenor set the team on a new course. Back
in the early nineties, they picked Chuck Daily to be
coach of the Dream Team in early because they thought
(14:33):
he was the best guy to establish the correct culture.
And I think that, uh, that was the right decision.
So to make this decision for the two thousand and
eight team what later became known as the Redeemed Team,
Jerry Colangelo wanted feedback. And the great thing about being
a godfather j A is when you hold us sit down,
(14:54):
everybody comes exactly. And so Jerry Colangelo basically convene a
meeting of the five families if you're a guyfather fan,
and got all these big names in the basketball world,
all people who had been involved with the Olympics before,
to get together for a brainstorming session in Chicago. And
that's what's so impressive is that he didn't call them
together for any particular moment or movement. You know, let's
(15:17):
let's just kick around some ideas. And only Jerry Calangrigo
could get that type of star power one room just
for an idea session. Immediately I knew culture change, we
have to get gained back the respect. And my first
order of business was who's going to be the coach
that I would select. I called a meeting in Chicago
(15:38):
of former Olympic coaches and former Olympic players and it
was held at the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame,
and it was a new building, great setting, and if
you were a basketball fly, you wanted to be in
that room. Knowing who was in that room A great names,
(16:00):
great basketball people all there because I had requested them
to be there, because they cared. And so he got
all these people to come there. And by these people,
I'm talking the likes of Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird, Jerry West,
John Thompson, Scottie Pippen, all these legendary figures of the
(16:21):
game showed up just because he asked them to. It
was out of respect they were showing me and I.
Basically they knew I was going to make the final decisions,
but the fact that I was reaching out and wanted
their inputum meant something to them. Also, I had each
one of them speak. I wanted to know, share your
(16:43):
experience as an Olympian, tell us what your read on
how things are, and number three, what do you think
needs to happen? And they all had great stories, and
you know, we just sat around and listened and it
was it was terrific. And then I said, well, I'm
gonna put some names up on the board. Let's let's
talk about coaches, pro coaches, college coaches, and the college
(17:09):
coach of course, as you know, that turned out to
be number one by a land slide. At the time
was coach K. But Dean Smith, who was a former
Olympic coach, was there and he said, there's only one
one college guy up there on that board who could
get the job done, and that's because he has the
(17:29):
respect of all the players and he's current. He's the
He's the one. And that was coach K. Now, think
about that. His his biggest rival in his career was
Dean Smith, and Dean Smith was pushing him, which I
thought was kind of a seminal moment for me at least.
(17:52):
And then we got to the players and we broke
down the players by position, and we start talking about
a whole list of players, some ranking players. But here's
an interesting thing on the on the pro coaches, uh,
number one was Popovich. Number two was someone not even
coaching anymore. It was Pat Riley. He had stepped down
(18:14):
from coaching. But Pat got the second most support. So
literally I had to two candidates, Popovich in coach K
so J. At this point, if you're a betting man,
you're thinking, well, we don't know what happened in a meeting,
but you probably looks like Greg Popovitch, who has already
won NBA championships. It looks like he's going to be
(18:37):
the guy. You would think so. But I mean, if
Dean Is is vouching for coach k and it's a
pretty strong endorsement from his rival from from up Tobacco Road.
And keep in mind Phil Jackson, you would think would
be another candidate. But as he told us, he was
basically out of the mix. He's been asking in nineteen
nineties and he said no. Back then, I was asked
and declined. I felt that, you know, I was in
(19:00):
the middle of coaching until July. Usually season would end
in June. We go into the draft in late June,
and I had in my contract that I had two
months off July and August and i'd be back in
Labor Day. And I had a family of five, and
I wanted to get back in with my family and
(19:21):
enjoy my summers and be compressed from basketball. So when
they asked if I was interested, I said no, USA,
I said no, I'm not, thank you. So Phil, in
USA basketball that's a no go, and that have been
long established, and you know, Gregg Popovitch, you would think
would be a strong candidate. He'd already won a couple
(19:43):
of NBA championships at that point. It's shown that he
could work with big players, but maybe he was a
little bit specific to the type of players that he
had on that team in San Antonio. That might have
been one concern. And then the other concern was he
and j he just didn't really hit it off. Pop
and I had had our disagreements, you know, just competitive
(20:06):
disagreements between San Antonio and Phoenix over the years. Mike
I knew fairly well. I mean I saw Mike play
when he was at Army a hundred years ago, and
I spent time with him when he was an assistant
at Indiana under Bobby Knight briefly, So there was a
relationship there, and from time to time I would speak
(20:28):
with him about players before the draft each year, et cetera,
and so I had a good relationship. Um I called Pop,
and honestly, I this turned out to be yet another
problem for the two of us at the moment. At
that time, I didn't sense any real enthusiasm over the
(20:48):
phone from Pop. He was really basically being himself because
he doesn't show a lot of emotion or enthusiasm. So
in some ways was a little bit of a misread
on my part. But I walked away from that phone
call a little taken back that he didn't show more
enthusiasm for the opportunity. The reason that became an issue
(21:12):
is that later on, when I was asked why coach
Chowski and not Popovich, I said that to the media
in some way, shape or form, I said I didn't
feel it. I didn't sense it. Well, that upset Pop
quite a bit. He sent me a letter expressing his uh,
(21:35):
you know, unhappiness, etcetera. And I apologize to him at
the time. And there's an even deeper angle to the
whole pop story. Remember that Pop had been the main
assistant on that Larry Brown team that had been embarrassed
in the two thousand four Olympics. Here's a guy we've
counted on before, Sean Ford, who was now USA Basketball's
(21:55):
national team director, totally plugged in. He talks about that Popovitch.
This is an instance where I wish I was better
at my job and saw things better and different because
I think you know that the meeting that Jerry's talking
about took place in May of two thousand five and
(22:15):
here you have Jerry who's just really really excited and
he should be you know, of where he is and
what's in front of him. And in that meeting there
was there was conversations of who the coaches should be,
and you know, it seemed like the clear favorites were
you know, coach K and and and Pop, you know,
and it wasn't a lot of conversation between the two.
(22:37):
It was just like that was a direction. And you know,
an interesting thing in the meeting is that you know,
a lot of different people spoke, you know, but one
of the things that happened was that you know, Michael
Jordan's supported Coach K as the coach, and Dean Smith
was in the room, you know, and I think Dean
supported it as well. And so it's not like that
(22:57):
carried the day, but that's a moment that you know,
you you think about if you're in the room, that
that's something you you remember. But the other thing is
that here's Pop who had the experience of O two,
the low vote two, the high of oh three when
we were really good, and then the low VO four
and it's still you know, in his system, and so
(23:20):
when when he talks to Jerry, he's I think still
thinking about how we can you know, we gotta do
things differently. And I think it was it was still close.
It was still an open wound for Pop, you know,
and I think that, but he was he was still
very interested. You would have loved to do it. And
so I've heard Jerry talked about that a little bit
and and I wish I, you know, maybe you know,
(23:42):
could have said, you know, hey, look I you gotta
understand where Pop is right now. This is still an
open wound for him. So Jerry had his coach, Mike Showski,
who also happened to be Michael Jordan's choice and Dean
smith choice. But Jay, you still got to get the players.
And remember what Collegela was doing. Here was a big ask,
(24:03):
a much bigger ask than former Olympians had received. Here's
Craig Miller, who was USA Basketball's longtime director of public relations.
It's famously known that he went and interview, had player's
interview with him and talk about why they wanted to
play and how much do they want to play? And
you know, it's like anything else sins, the more you
(24:24):
got to become invested in something, the more it means
to you. And then the other part of it was,
this wasn't when Jerry took over, It wasn't just a
one year commendment. It ended up being almost a three
year two thousand and six, two thousand seven, two thousand
and eight. We had competitions every year, and we had
the same core group of players. You know. I think
one of the Godfather's greatest strength was that he stayed
(24:47):
in touch with the game. You gotta stay connected. And
here's Sean Ford again talking about that. What was interesting
to me is that Jerry did a really good job
through his career of staying in touch with people in
college knowing you know, like Bobby and Knight was always
really like they played together in you know, in the
Big Ten in the late fifties, early sixties, and people
(25:08):
knew him, remember, you know, like CM and Tom dear
instead and people like that. They didn't they weren't friends
with him, but they had met him, they had they
knew about him, they had interacted with him in some
capacity somewhere along the line. And when you think of
NBA owners, you don't think of that, you know a lot,
(25:28):
But with Jerry, he was engaged in a lot of
different things, you know, j There's only been certain guys
who have been able to do that over a period
of years. A lot of the old timers, you know,
the guys that didn't make as much money, people forgot
about them. They're not in the headlines anymore. They get disillusioned,
they drift away from the game. But Jerry Colangelo, like
(25:49):
a few others, you know, state connected. There's only a
couple other guys who have been able to do that. Yeah,
I'd say Jerry West is another great example. Nineteen sixties
Olympics Laker great in the sixties and early seventies and
became one of the best executives, if not the best
basketball executives of all time, and even when that time
had passed, has still stuck around and even to this day,
(26:12):
his input is so valued that he's always on someone's
list as a consultant. He'd recently had done it with
the Golden State Warriors, currently with the Los Angeles Clippers.
So if Jerry Colangelo is the godfather, Jerry West is
the consigliari. Phil Jackson is kind of like that too. Jay.
He stays, you know, up in the mountains a little
(26:33):
more and descends from the heavens when he gets back
in the game, but he seems to stay connected in
his own way. Yeah, and he's also adding to his
bank account as well. But I think you're seeing the
formation of the culture though that that Jerry Colangelo talked about,
and the sense that, Okay, if people like Jerry West
and these greats of the past, Michael Jordan, even who
(26:55):
isn't somebody that jumps back into things and and stays
involved when when there isn't a paycheck involved, If these
people could still be involved, I think it gave incentive
to the players that Jerry Colangelo was going to seek
to recruit, and Jerry Williams was one of those players.
For me, it was kind of a no brainer. And
I just wanted to hoop. So summers are born as
(27:16):
it is, just working out and grinding by yourself in
the gym, so you need to be able to play
with with the best players in the world. You know.
It was something that I look forward to. That's funny
you and Collanjo had you still keep that University of
Illinois thing. He went there like fifty years before that, man,
But I didn't even know you'd realize that, you know, Yeah, no,
I Jerry was kind of he was kind of frequently
in and out of Illinois, you know, and you know,
(27:38):
popped in and would would speak to us, and so,
you know, I was pretty aware of who he was,
you know, throughout the process. You're listening to Kobe Lebron
and the redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute.
So another guy who was well aware of who Jerry
(28:00):
Colangelo was because he worked for him before, was Jason Kidd,
another point guard, and he played for the Phoenix Suns,
but that relationship didn't end so well. Jerry Colangelo basically
wanted him out and traded him to the New Jersey
at the time, nets that was at Jerry Colangelo's requests.
So I think some of us were surprised that they
(28:20):
could reunite for this team. And to hear Jason Kidd
tell the story, he wasn't quite sure that this was
really happening when Colangelo first reached out to him to
see if he wanted to be a part of this
Olympic team. And I think I was hurt um and
oh four, so I couldn't participate and so and things
didn't go well for us, and so I thought if
(28:41):
I ever got the opportunity. I knew I was getting
a little older and there was going to go to
the guys that deserve to be there. But when Jerry
gave me a call and asked what I participate, at
first I thought he was joking, but he was serious.
And at anytime Jerry calls to ask you to do
something you don't, there's no no. So I was very
honored for him to ask me to play. But didn't
(29:03):
he trade you? He did trade me, uh, and I
was I was better about that trade because I love Phoenix,
I love playing for him, but also the business of basketball. Uh.
As you know, you learned quickly as you get older,
things happen and so but I knew Jerry and Coach
k were trying to fix Team USA and put the
(29:26):
best team together, maybe not the top twelve or thirteen players,
but the best team. And uh, I was just very
again honored that he asked me to participate in that.
Are you kidding when you said you were surprised? Yeah,
when you said you thought he was kidding, I thought
he was joking. Um, I thought he was just trying to,
you know, play a little joke before he was gonna
(29:48):
ask me to do something else and so uh, but
when he asked me to be part of Team USA,
I really thought he was joking because I looked at
the team and the team that everybody was talking about.
You know. Oh, I thought it was a rebranding of
Team USA. I thought it was it was done with class. Now,
one of the better selection stories comes from Carmelo Anthony.
(30:11):
So here's a young player who had just been embarrassed
in the two thousand four Olympics, lost out in Rookie
of the Year to Lebron James, who he probably knows
is going to overshadow him his whole career. Carmello also
had a bad rep in some quarters. He wouldn't really
seem to know Jerry Colangelo from Jerry Lewis, and what
would he give a crap about Mike Sawski for he
(30:33):
was only in college for one year. But here's Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, Well,
by time Jerry came to us, came to me personally,
it was like, okay, Like Jerry, I want to I
want to be a part of this. I mean you're
acting a lot, like three year commitments of this. That's
a lot, right, And but at that point it was
just like all right, Jerry, you know what, like I'm
(30:54):
I'm me personally, I'm giving you this commitment, like I'm
giving you myself for the next three years. And you know,
once I committed to that and understood the goal and
and and division for Team USA, you know, Team USA
basketball and just the culture that was trying to be
created that Jerry was creating. I brought into it. I
(31:17):
brought into it, and then you know other guys, other
guys that brought into it. So I think I was
the last one that he came to meet with. So
it was like, you know, I'm coming to you last,
like I'm I need your commitment. If you're gonna be committed,
we want you. If not, then you know, I need
you to let it. Let us know that now. So
you didn't have to call d Wade and Lebron to
see if they were in or did you already know
(31:38):
they were in when you committed now, I mean they
was all yeah, they Jerry had went to them prior
to like before me, so that I already was hearing
that they was then. So I was just honest, I
was just waiting on Jerry to you know, I'm like
with damn with Jerry at like Jerry and coming to
me like where is he at? So by time he
came to me, it was like I was, I was
already in I was already committed. It was Carmelo's eagerness
(32:01):
to play that speaks to the alliances that were formed
on this team and teaches us maybe a little lesson
that we shouldn't rush to judgments about people, that we
should wait and make our own judgments, which is what
Jerry Colangelo did in the case of Carmelo. I'm really
sensitive to this because you tend to do that when
(32:22):
you get older, which I am, and you really have
to be careful about it. And I really credit a
person like Colangelo, who after all, was playing college basketball
back in the nineteen fifties, being able to do that,
particularly in the case of Carmelo. There was a bad
taste in the mouth of many regarding Carmelo, and some
people in basketball said I wouldn't waste my time with him.
(32:45):
So in that first meeting with Carmelo, I told them that,
I said, I want you to know there are a
lot of people who have said, no, you know, lack
of character, blah blah blah. He was stunned, shocked, and
I said, and I'll tell you how I feel, how
quite this slay clean for you? And I'm I'm gonna
watch you during the course of this year and we'll talk. Well.
(33:09):
During the course of the year, I heard from him
three times where he called me to say, how do
you think I'm doing? Is everything okay? And he was
playing well. He was really working at it. And of
course in picking him, think about all he's accomplished with
USA Basketball, the records, the winds. He was a terrific
(33:32):
international player. And one thing Collengelo had the benefit of
this time was that he did have the full availability
of Kobe Bryant. Remember, as we talked about in a
previous episode, Kobe was unavailable in two thousand four because
he was uncertain about how his sexual assault case was
going to play out and it was scheduled for trial
(33:53):
in the summer of two thousand four. Uh, they eventually
resolved it without it going to trial, but he couldn't
be certain of that in time to give USA Basketball
enough notification that he could participate. He couldn't guarantee his
ability to participate. So that was two thousand four and
two thousand eight. That's all resolved. It's all clear. So
(34:13):
he could get Kobe with no problem. But there was
someone else here he wanted as well, and that was
Lebron James. So I actually centered myself in Chicago because
it's kind of a crossroads, and I saw players coming
and going. As it turned out, met Lebron at the
Rich Carleton across the street. And because I stay at
(34:37):
the highatt and nine o'clock meeting in the lobby with Lebron.
At exactly nine o'clock, the elevator door opened and outstepped
Lebron right on time, and with him, I was about
halfway through my my pitch, if you will. He said,
I'm in, I'm in. And so what I since was
(35:01):
the guys were buying in, you know, and that made
me feel pretty good. Okay, Jerry's gathered up some of
us guys, but the big question remains, will they buy
into Coachowski a college coach? And that was a relevant
question because we hadn't seen college coaches since we'd gone
to this model of NBA players, and so you also
(35:26):
have more and more players who didn't go to college
at all. Right, so this roster was going to be
made up of guys like Kobe and Lebron James and
Dwight Howard who had never played for a college coach,
so they didn't have that experience of a guy who's
in command. And could a college coach adapt to this
situation where he doesn't have as much control as he
(35:47):
would in college. Maschewski is Duke basketball, right, but Mischewsky
couldn't be USA basketball, not with these players, not with
their accomplishments, not with their egos. So would he be
able to adapt as well? So will examine all these
questions and what approached coach k decided on in the
next episode. Here's a taste. I know I probably have
(36:09):
to follow him out, but they don't expect me to say,
motherfucker right, and you know when you're talking, just come
on your motherfucking like, we gotta get this gold medal.
And all of a sudden, I wasn't this uh guy
from Duke in West Point, you know how. It's more
of the guy from the inner city of Chicago, you know.
(36:31):
So that's it for this episode. I'm Jack McCallum, Thanks
for listening. I'm JA that day. It's out next time
on Kobe, Lebron and the Redeem feat. The Dream Team Tapes.
Season two. Kobe lebron and the Redeem Team is a
(36:54):
production of Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
For more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit the i
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts for wherever you get your podcast.
This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum
and j Adande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances
(37:16):
for Diversion podcast and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio.
Our editorial director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy,
Legal producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by
Mark Frances. Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our
director of Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion
(37:46):
Podcasts
The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:26):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know it
to be in this position now here represent our country minutes,
especially special Lebron James. We look for an opportunity of
(00:47):
the weekend on Alma being the best in the world.
I guess the Redeem Team is it is right, We're
the rest team in the world. We're the best team
in the world. We put Basketball America basketball Wheal defeat,
which is at the time can you hear that Godfather
(01:21):
like music in the background? I'm Jack McCallum, and we're
here in episode four of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed
Team to talk about a Godfather figure who did a
humpty dumpty repair act on an American basketball program that
had fallen on hard times. Now, there are many reasons
why the Redeemed Team became the Redeemed Team, but one
(01:45):
of the big ones is Jerry Colangelo the Godfather, and
that's the title of episode four. My co host is
Jay Adonde, who did the great podcast Beyond the Last Dance? Jay,
what has been your connection with the Godfather? Over the
anybody that covered the league pretty much came into contact
with Jerry Colangelo exactly. He was impossible to avoid if
(02:08):
you're around basketball basketball in general, in particularly the NBA.
But I'd say the first time I really got a
taste of his power, and that was in two thousand
at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in Phoenix
that year and we had given one of our Pioneer Awards.
The Sports Task Force gives Pioneer awards for people of
groundbreaking in that region, and so Jerry got one. Connie Hawkins,
(02:32):
the Great Phoenix sun Star was was another recipient that year,
and we had bought tickets to an Arizona Diamondbacks game.
Of course, Colangelo was the man in charge of the Diamondbacks.
So we bought a block of tickets and we let
Jerry know about it, and he said, how many tickets
you get? We're like twenty in our block. He said,
I see way more than twenty people here. Do you.
You guys need some more tickets? Like okay, Henny whips
(02:54):
out his cell phone. He's on the phone. He says,
what about a sweet you guys want to sweep? Okay? Sure?
What do you want in there? Want some beers? Want
some chickens, some nachos? What do you want? Put in
our order? And boom, like in thirty seconds, done and
we go there. We had a suite. We get in there,
there's a big tub of beers. Diamondbacks were playing the
(03:15):
cub Sammy Sosa hit a couple of home runs. It
might have been the best time I've ever had at
a baseball game. And Jerry Colangelo made it happen in
about thirty seconds, just from start to finish. He hooked
it up like that. So that's the power of Jerry Colangelo.
I got a quick lesson in that. Yep, that's what
you do when you're the godfather. But you know, before
we hear what he's done. Here's a very quick bio.
(03:37):
Jerry has owned, general, managed, and coached the Phoenix Suns.
He has owned the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball,
the Phoenix Mercury of the w n b A, the
Arizona sand Sharks of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, the
Arizona Rattlers of the Arena Football League, and he was
instrumental in relocating the Winnipeg Jets to become the Phoenix Coyotes.
(04:01):
He built a program at Grand Canyon University, he was
chairman of the basketball operation for the seventies sixers, and
he's been president of the NBA Board of Governors. And
that's not even the most interesting part of his bio.
J A. I'm not gonna say how old he is,
that's up to him. But let's just say he was
around long enough that he was going to be a
(04:22):
teammate of Wilt Chamberlain at the University of Kansas. This
was after wild had been there and Will decided to
leave for the Harlem Globetrotters, and Jerry took one look
around and decided, without Wilt Chamberlain, I don't want to
be there either. He transferred to the University of Illinois,
where he became a very good big ten basketball player.
(04:44):
So for a little background on why Jerry was so important,
we have to go back to those years around two
thousand three, two thousand four, JA, what was going on
why was he so needed to come along and save
the USA basketball program. Well, USA basketball falling on hard times,
and it took about a decade since the advent of
(05:05):
NBA players into USA Basketball, and they were riding high
through three Olympics, but then it had fallen in and
starting with the two thousand two World Championships in America
in Indianapolis, the US losers there, and then of course
the fiasco of the third place finish in Athens at
the Olympics there in two thousand four. So just throwing
(05:27):
out NBA players wasn't enough. We needed a stronger regiment
and USA basketball needed more buy in from the top players.
It was clear that in order to win the gold
medal again they needed the best of American basketball players
to participate, not just American basketball players. That wasn't gonna
cut it anymore. They needed someone to get everyone in line,
(05:48):
to get buy in, to bring structure an organization, and
that's where Jerry Colangelo came in. Now, there's a theory
from the nineteenth century called the Great Man theory. Thomas
Carlyle thought of it, and he's Scottish, and I'm Scottish,
and that's probably why I remember it. Carlisle theorized that
history could be explained by the impact of great men,
(06:10):
that they come along at times of most need, that
they had divine inspiration, they had couraged, they had intellect,
and they had leadership to make it really happen. Where
the hell they are during the pandemic, By the way,
I have no idea, But anyway, in terms of the
great man theory, if you look at the Redeemed team,
I suppose we could say it would be Mike Shaski,
(06:30):
who were going to be talking about in the next episode,
or Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, who we've already discussed.
But the first one to come along to change the
course of USA basketball's history was Jerry Colangelo. And when
the invitation came along to lead USA basketball and reorganized
the program, it was a very inopportune time for Mr. Colangelo.
(06:54):
First of all, All four was a very traumatic year
for me outside of watching the USA basketball team UH
not do very well in Greece. But I had made
a decision to h to sell the Suns that took
place in the middle of oh four. Not long after that,
(07:14):
I stepped down with the Diamondbacks, a few months later,
I was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. I
took my wife to Europe got involved in the street
fight on the streets of Paris when she was attacked
by two muggers, and that was an interesting evening because
we had plans in Paris, and as it turned up,
(07:37):
my eyes were not in good shape when I was
pepper spray during this fight, and we had to spend
the night in the hotel. I did order a bottle
of champagne and pour two glasses, and I said to
my wife, we were both sixty five at the time.
I said, you know, for two sixty five year olds,
we handled ourselves pretty well. And I'm referring to the
(07:59):
fight that took place in front of a five star
hotel in Paris. And so I had a speaking engagement
in Chicago on the way back, and I made the comment,
I said, you know, it's been a very traumatic year.
There's still a little bit of time left in this year.
What's next? And soon thereafter I was advised I had
(08:21):
prostate cancer and had to make some major decisions in
terms of my health. Now. I was around Jerry in
those years a lot because I was researching a book
on the Phoenix Suns, which became seven seconds or less.
And I was impressed by the way the way Jerry
he had just sold the team, as he mentioned in
his earlier quote to Robert Sarver, who did things, let's
(08:43):
just say a little differently now. He did leave his
son in place, Brian Colangelo was GM of the Sons.
He later left also, But for a guy that was
really at the center of things, Jerry left that team
alone after he had sold it to Robert Sarver. Otherwise, though,
he was always in the middle of the action, rules committees, controversies,
(09:04):
TV negotiations, and I said earlier, he was chairman of
the Board of Governors of the NBA. And I was
surprised when we asked him why he had never been
invited before two thousand five to get involved with the
Olympic program. Here's what he said, I don't know, I'm
not sure. I'm not sure there was ever an invitation
(09:26):
to be involved with USA basketball. Well, there was a
need to have him now, and David Stern, then the commissioner,
usually left most of the work with USA Basketball to
his trusted lieutenant Russ Grantick, who is by the way
one of the truly underrated figures in our Olympic basketball program.
And one day David Stern called the Godfather. We tease
(09:48):
this in the last episode, but here it is again.
He said, Jerry, look, I know you were just as
unhappy as me and everyone else regarding the showing in
Greece and all the things it and there needs to
be some change. Would you be willing to take on
the responsibility for USA Basketball? And I'm instinctive and I
(10:08):
basically said, yeah, I'll do it, but I have a
couple of conditions, and he said what are they. I said,
one full autonomy. I'll pick the coaches and the players
in this whole system, which was a little too political
for me, uh in terms of the selection process who
(10:29):
went by the wayside. He said, you got it. What's
number two? And I said, I don't want to hear
about a budget and he went off in typical Stern fashion,
and I let him go and I said, David, are
you finished? He said yes. I said it's still number two,
and he acquiesced, and then I assured him, don't worry
about it. I'll raise the money now. During that prior
(10:52):
quad they raised nine million dollars to cover expenses for
USA Basketball. During my first quad, we raised thirty six
million and there was no looking back. So that's how
it all started. And that was all in the early
days of All five. That's true. Money was never much
(11:14):
of an object for Jerry, either spending it or raising it.
And I think you came across that particular aspect of
Jerry Colangelo. J And one time I was out in
Phoenix and there was an event of fundraising event for
the Basketball Hall of Fame, which, as you mentioned, Jerry
Clangelo's chairman of the board. I don't know what his
title is, it always sounds appropriate to call him the
chairman of the board. And so he got in there
(11:37):
and he just hounded people. He got up there when
it was time to really bring in the bucks at
the end of this this banquet. He just ground people
down and forced them. And I've heard stories that he's
done fundraising events where he'll literally locked the doors to
the room and say, you guys are leaving here until
we hit our target figure of fundraising. So he is
(11:57):
a phenomenal fundraiser. You just don't want to go against him,
right if he asked you for something, you don't want
to say no. He's pretty impossible to refuse. Yeah, he's
a hard guy to refuse. I mean he he now
heads the Hall of Fame. He really turned around, by
the way, their their finances, and pretty much a month
doesn't go by that I don't get a fundraising letter
from the from the Hall of Fame. The other thing
(12:20):
about Jerry, by the way, and one of the reasons
I always enjoyed talking to him and and being in
his circle, was he sort of like the old time
boxing promoters. He doesn't care what you say about him,
just say something. He doesn't take things personal. He doesn't
held grudges. He's had some negative publicity along the way,
(12:40):
but he's always rolled with it and never held that
against anyone. Later now, you asked him during our long
interview with him, why was it important for him to
answer this call to USA Basketball. Well, I was, I
guess at the moment, I felt that I was in
a position to do something like that, and it was
(13:02):
great timing in my opinion. You know, you sell the
Sun's you step down in baseball, So I was available,
let's put it that way, even with my full plate
of other things. I liked it. I liked the challenge,
you know, in terms of taking on that responsibility, and
it was you know, I'm pretty open about this. I'm
(13:24):
proud to be an American. I was unhappy about the
way people were looking at us as Americans, as athletes,
and in particular our basketball people in Greece, and it
was a little shameful in my opinion. And so the
opportunity to represent your country, which is a lot different
than the City States, and not just something domestic, but
(13:49):
this was representing your country on the world stage and
having a chance to to make a statement. You're listening
to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team be back in
a minute. So the first order of business for any
new executive is to quote change the culture unquote. Now
(14:11):
that's a vague term, but a lot of times in sports,
I think j what that means is to get a
new coach, get a coach that's going to set the
right tenor set the team on a new course. Back
in the early nineties, they picked Chuck Daily to be
coach of the Dream Team in early because they thought
(14:33):
he was the best guy to establish the correct culture.
And I think that, uh, that was the right decision.
So to make this decision for the two thousand and
eight team what later became known as the Redeemed Team,
Jerry Colangelo wanted feedback. And the great thing about being
a godfather j A is when you hold us sit down,
(14:54):
everybody comes exactly. And so Jerry Colangelo basically convene a
meeting of the five families if you're a guyfather fan,
and got all these big names in the basketball world,
all people who had been involved with the Olympics before,
to get together for a brainstorming session in Chicago. And
that's what's so impressive is that he didn't call them
together for any particular moment or movement. You know, let's
(15:17):
let's just kick around some ideas. And only Jerry Calangrigo
could get that type of star power one room just
for an idea session. Immediately I knew culture change, we
have to get gained back the respect. And my first
order of business was who's going to be the coach
that I would select. I called a meeting in Chicago
(15:38):
of former Olympic coaches and former Olympic players and it
was held at the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame,
and it was a new building, great setting, and if
you were a basketball fly, you wanted to be in
that room. Knowing who was in that room A great names,
(16:00):
great basketball people all there because I had requested them
to be there, because they cared. And so he got
all these people to come there. And by these people,
I'm talking the likes of Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird, Jerry West,
John Thompson, Scottie Pippen, all these legendary figures of the
(16:21):
game showed up just because he asked them to. It
was out of respect they were showing me and I.
Basically they knew I was going to make the final decisions,
but the fact that I was reaching out and wanted
their inputum meant something to them. Also, I had each
one of them speak. I wanted to know, share your
(16:43):
experience as an Olympian, tell us what your read on
how things are, and number three, what do you think
needs to happen? And they all had great stories, and
you know, we just sat around and listened and it
was it was terrific. And then I said, well, I'm
gonna put some names up on the board. Let's let's
talk about coaches, pro coaches, college coaches, and the college
(17:09):
coach of course, as you know, that turned out to
be number one by a land slide. At the time
was coach K. But Dean Smith, who was a former
Olympic coach, was there and he said, there's only one
one college guy up there on that board who could
get the job done, and that's because he has the
(17:29):
respect of all the players and he's current. He's the
He's the one. And that was coach K. Now, think
about that. His his biggest rival in his career was
Dean Smith, and Dean Smith was pushing him, which I
thought was kind of a seminal moment for me at least.
(17:52):
And then we got to the players and we broke
down the players by position, and we start talking about
a whole list of players, some ranking players. But here's
an interesting thing on the on the pro coaches, uh,
number one was Popovich. Number two was someone not even
coaching anymore. It was Pat Riley. He had stepped down
(18:14):
from coaching. But Pat got the second most support. So
literally I had to two candidates, Popovich in coach K
so J. At this point, if you're a betting man,
you're thinking, well, we don't know what happened in a meeting,
but you probably looks like Greg Popovitch, who has already
won NBA championships. It looks like he's going to be
(18:37):
the guy. You would think so. But I mean, if
Dean Is is vouching for coach k and it's a
pretty strong endorsement from his rival from from up Tobacco Road.
And keep in mind Phil Jackson, you would think would
be another candidate. But as he told us, he was
basically out of the mix. He's been asking in nineteen
nineties and he said no. Back then, I was asked
and declined. I felt that, you know, I was in
(19:00):
the middle of coaching until July. Usually season would end
in June. We go into the draft in late June,
and I had in my contract that I had two
months off July and August and i'd be back in
Labor Day. And I had a family of five, and
I wanted to get back in with my family and
(19:21):
enjoy my summers and be compressed from basketball. So when
they asked if I was interested, I said no, USA,
I said no, I'm not, thank you. So Phil, in
USA basketball that's a no go, and that have been
long established, and you know, Gregg Popovitch, you would think
would be a strong candidate. He'd already won a couple
(19:43):
of NBA championships at that point. It's shown that he
could work with big players, but maybe he was a
little bit specific to the type of players that he
had on that team in San Antonio. That might have
been one concern. And then the other concern was he
and j he just didn't really hit it off. Pop
and I had had our disagreements, you know, just competitive
(20:06):
disagreements between San Antonio and Phoenix over the years. Mike
I knew fairly well. I mean I saw Mike play
when he was at Army a hundred years ago, and
I spent time with him when he was an assistant
at Indiana under Bobby Knight briefly, So there was a
relationship there, and from time to time I would speak
(20:28):
with him about players before the draft each year, et cetera,
and so I had a good relationship. Um I called Pop,
and honestly, I this turned out to be yet another
problem for the two of us at the moment. At
that time, I didn't sense any real enthusiasm over the
(20:48):
phone from Pop. He was really basically being himself because
he doesn't show a lot of emotion or enthusiasm. So
in some ways was a little bit of a misread
on my part. But I walked away from that phone
call a little taken back that he didn't show more
enthusiasm for the opportunity. The reason that became an issue
(21:12):
is that later on, when I was asked why coach
Chowski and not Popovich, I said that to the media
in some way, shape or form, I said I didn't
feel it. I didn't sense it. Well, that upset Pop
quite a bit. He sent me a letter expressing his uh,
(21:35):
you know, unhappiness, etcetera. And I apologize to him at
the time. And there's an even deeper angle to the
whole pop story. Remember that Pop had been the main
assistant on that Larry Brown team that had been embarrassed
in the two thousand four Olympics. Here's a guy we've
counted on before, Sean Ford, who was now USA Basketball's
(21:55):
national team director, totally plugged in. He talks about that Popovitch.
This is an instance where I wish I was better
at my job and saw things better and different because
I think you know that the meeting that Jerry's talking
about took place in May of two thousand five and
(22:15):
here you have Jerry who's just really really excited and
he should be you know, of where he is and
what's in front of him. And in that meeting there
was there was conversations of who the coaches should be,
and you know, it seemed like the clear favorites were
you know, coach K and and and Pop, you know,
and it wasn't a lot of conversation between the two.
(22:37):
It was just like that was a direction. And you know,
an interesting thing in the meeting is that you know,
a lot of different people spoke, you know, but one
of the things that happened was that you know, Michael
Jordan's supported Coach K as the coach, and Dean Smith
was in the room, you know, and I think Dean
supported it as well. And so it's not like that
(22:57):
carried the day, but that's a moment that you know,
you you think about if you're in the room, that
that's something you you remember. But the other thing is
that here's Pop who had the experience of O two,
the low vote two, the high of oh three when
we were really good, and then the low VO four
and it's still you know, in his system, and so
(23:20):
when when he talks to Jerry, he's I think still
thinking about how we can you know, we gotta do
things differently. And I think it was it was still close.
It was still an open wound for Pop, you know,
and I think that, but he was he was still
very interested. You would have loved to do it. And
so I've heard Jerry talked about that a little bit
and and I wish I, you know, maybe you know,
(23:42):
could have said, you know, hey, look I you gotta
understand where Pop is right now. This is still an
open wound for him. So Jerry had his coach, Mike Showski,
who also happened to be Michael Jordan's choice and Dean
smith choice. But Jay, you still got to get the players.
And remember what Collegela was doing. Here was a big ask,
(24:03):
a much bigger ask than former Olympians had received. Here's
Craig Miller, who was USA Basketball's longtime director of public relations.
It's famously known that he went and interview, had player's
interview with him and talk about why they wanted to
play and how much do they want to play? And
you know, it's like anything else sins, the more you
(24:24):
got to become invested in something, the more it means
to you. And then the other part of it was,
this wasn't when Jerry took over, It wasn't just a
one year commendment. It ended up being almost a three
year two thousand and six, two thousand seven, two thousand
and eight. We had competitions every year, and we had
the same core group of players. You know. I think
one of the Godfather's greatest strength was that he stayed
(24:47):
in touch with the game. You gotta stay connected. And
here's Sean Ford again talking about that. What was interesting
to me is that Jerry did a really good job
through his career of staying in touch with people in
college knowing you know, like Bobby and Knight was always
really like they played together in you know, in the
Big Ten in the late fifties, early sixties, and people
(25:08):
knew him, remember, you know, like CM and Tom dear
instead and people like that. They didn't they weren't friends
with him, but they had met him, they had they
knew about him, they had interacted with him in some
capacity somewhere along the line. And when you think of
NBA owners, you don't think of that, you know a lot,
(25:28):
But with Jerry, he was engaged in a lot of
different things, you know, j There's only been certain guys
who have been able to do that over a period
of years. A lot of the old timers, you know,
the guys that didn't make as much money, people forgot
about them. They're not in the headlines anymore. They get disillusioned,
they drift away from the game. But Jerry Colangelo, like
(25:49):
a few others, you know, state connected. There's only a
couple other guys who have been able to do that. Yeah,
I'd say Jerry West is another great example. Nineteen sixties
Olympics Laker great in the sixties and early seventies and
became one of the best executives, if not the best
basketball executives of all time, and even when that time
had passed, has still stuck around and even to this day,
(26:12):
his input is so valued that he's always on someone's
list as a consultant. He'd recently had done it with
the Golden State Warriors, currently with the Los Angeles Clippers.
So if Jerry Colangelo is the godfather, Jerry West is
the consigliari. Phil Jackson is kind of like that too. Jay.
He stays, you know, up in the mountains a little
(26:33):
more and descends from the heavens when he gets back
in the game, but he seems to stay connected in
his own way. Yeah, and he's also adding to his
bank account as well. But I think you're seeing the
formation of the culture though that that Jerry Colangelo talked about,
and the sense that, Okay, if people like Jerry West
and these greats of the past, Michael Jordan, even who
(26:55):
isn't somebody that jumps back into things and and stays
involved when when there isn't a paycheck involved, If these
people could still be involved, I think it gave incentive
to the players that Jerry Colangelo was going to seek
to recruit, and Jerry Williams was one of those players.
For me, it was kind of a no brainer. And
I just wanted to hoop. So summers are born as
(27:16):
it is, just working out and grinding by yourself in
the gym, so you need to be able to play
with with the best players in the world. You know.
It was something that I look forward to. That's funny
you and Collanjo had you still keep that University of
Illinois thing. He went there like fifty years before that, man,
But I didn't even know you'd realize that, you know, Yeah, no,
I Jerry was kind of he was kind of frequently
in and out of Illinois, you know, and you know,
(27:38):
popped in and would would speak to us, and so,
you know, I was pretty aware of who he was,
you know, throughout the process. You're listening to Kobe Lebron
and the redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute.
So another guy who was well aware of who Jerry
(28:00):
Colangelo was because he worked for him before, was Jason Kidd,
another point guard, and he played for the Phoenix Suns,
but that relationship didn't end so well. Jerry Colangelo basically
wanted him out and traded him to the New Jersey
at the time, nets that was at Jerry Colangelo's requests.
So I think some of us were surprised that they
(28:20):
could reunite for this team. And to hear Jason Kidd
tell the story, he wasn't quite sure that this was
really happening when Colangelo first reached out to him to
see if he wanted to be a part of this
Olympic team. And I think I was hurt um and
oh four, so I couldn't participate and so and things
didn't go well for us, and so I thought if
(28:41):
I ever got the opportunity. I knew I was getting
a little older and there was going to go to
the guys that deserve to be there. But when Jerry
gave me a call and asked what I participate, at
first I thought he was joking, but he was serious.
And at anytime Jerry calls to ask you to do
something you don't, there's no no. So I was very
honored for him to ask me to play. But didn't
(29:03):
he trade you? He did trade me, uh, and I
was I was better about that trade because I love Phoenix,
I love playing for him, but also the business of basketball. Uh.
As you know, you learned quickly as you get older,
things happen and so but I knew Jerry and Coach
k were trying to fix Team USA and put the
(29:26):
best team together, maybe not the top twelve or thirteen players,
but the best team. And uh, I was just very
again honored that he asked me to participate in that.
Are you kidding when you said you were surprised? Yeah,
when you said you thought he was kidding, I thought
he was joking. Um, I thought he was just trying to,
you know, play a little joke before he was gonna
(29:48):
ask me to do something else and so uh, but
when he asked me to be part of Team USA,
I really thought he was joking because I looked at
the team and the team that everybody was talking about.
You know. Oh, I thought it was a rebranding of
Team USA. I thought it was it was done with class. Now,
one of the better selection stories comes from Carmelo Anthony.
(30:11):
So here's a young player who had just been embarrassed
in the two thousand four Olympics, lost out in Rookie
of the Year to Lebron James, who he probably knows
is going to overshadow him his whole career. Carmello also
had a bad rep in some quarters. He wouldn't really
seem to know Jerry Colangelo from Jerry Lewis, and what
would he give a crap about Mike Sawski for he
(30:33):
was only in college for one year. But here's Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, Well,
by time Jerry came to us, came to me personally,
it was like, okay, Like Jerry, I want to I
want to be a part of this. I mean you're
acting a lot, like three year commitments of this. That's
a lot, right, And but at that point it was
just like all right, Jerry, you know what, like I'm
(30:54):
I'm me personally, I'm giving you this commitment, like I'm
giving you myself for the next three years. And you know,
once I committed to that and understood the goal and
and and division for Team USA, you know, Team USA
basketball and just the culture that was trying to be
created that Jerry was creating. I brought into it. I
(31:17):
brought into it, and then you know other guys, other
guys that brought into it. So I think I was
the last one that he came to meet with. So
it was like, you know, I'm coming to you last,
like I'm I need your commitment. If you're gonna be committed,
we want you. If not, then you know, I need
you to let it. Let us know that now. So
you didn't have to call d Wade and Lebron to
see if they were in or did you already know
(31:38):
they were in when you committed now, I mean they
was all yeah, they Jerry had went to them prior
to like before me, so that I already was hearing
that they was then. So I was just honest, I
was just waiting on Jerry to you know, I'm like
with damn with Jerry at like Jerry and coming to
me like where is he at? So by time he
came to me, it was like I was, I was
already in I was already committed. It was Carmelo's eagerness
(32:01):
to play that speaks to the alliances that were formed
on this team and teaches us maybe a little lesson
that we shouldn't rush to judgments about people, that we
should wait and make our own judgments, which is what
Jerry Colangelo did in the case of Carmelo. I'm really
sensitive to this because you tend to do that when
(32:22):
you get older, which I am, and you really have
to be careful about it. And I really credit a
person like Colangelo, who after all, was playing college basketball
back in the nineteen fifties, being able to do that,
particularly in the case of Carmelo. There was a bad
taste in the mouth of many regarding Carmelo, and some
people in basketball said I wouldn't waste my time with him.
(32:45):
So in that first meeting with Carmelo, I told them that,
I said, I want you to know there are a
lot of people who have said, no, you know, lack
of character, blah blah blah. He was stunned, shocked, and
I said, and I'll tell you how I feel, how
quite this slay clean for you? And I'm I'm gonna
watch you during the course of this year and we'll talk. Well.
(33:09):
During the course of the year, I heard from him
three times where he called me to say, how do
you think I'm doing? Is everything okay? And he was
playing well. He was really working at it. And of
course in picking him, think about all he's accomplished with
USA Basketball, the records, the winds. He was a terrific
(33:32):
international player. And one thing Collengelo had the benefit of
this time was that he did have the full availability
of Kobe Bryant. Remember, as we talked about in a
previous episode, Kobe was unavailable in two thousand four because
he was uncertain about how his sexual assault case was
going to play out and it was scheduled for trial
(33:53):
in the summer of two thousand four. Uh, they eventually
resolved it without it going to trial, but he couldn't
be certain of that in time to give USA Basketball
enough notification that he could participate. He couldn't guarantee his
ability to participate. So that was two thousand four and
two thousand eight. That's all resolved. It's all clear. So
(34:13):
he could get Kobe with no problem. But there was
someone else here he wanted as well, and that was
Lebron James. So I actually centered myself in Chicago because
it's kind of a crossroads, and I saw players coming
and going. As it turned out, met Lebron at the
Rich Carleton across the street. And because I stay at
(34:37):
the highatt and nine o'clock meeting in the lobby with Lebron.
At exactly nine o'clock, the elevator door opened and outstepped
Lebron right on time, and with him, I was about
halfway through my my pitch, if you will. He said,
I'm in, I'm in. And so what I since was
(35:01):
the guys were buying in, you know, and that made
me feel pretty good. Okay, Jerry's gathered up some of
us guys, but the big question remains, will they buy
into Coachowski a college coach? And that was a relevant
question because we hadn't seen college coaches since we'd gone
to this model of NBA players, and so you also
(35:26):
have more and more players who didn't go to college
at all. Right, so this roster was going to be
made up of guys like Kobe and Lebron James and
Dwight Howard who had never played for a college coach,
so they didn't have that experience of a guy who's
in command. And could a college coach adapt to this
situation where he doesn't have as much control as he
(35:47):
would in college. Maschewski is Duke basketball, right, but Mischewsky
couldn't be USA basketball, not with these players, not with
their accomplishments, not with their egos. So would he be
able to adapt as well? So will examine all these
questions and what approached coach k decided on in the
next episode. Here's a taste. I know I probably have
(36:09):
to follow him out, but they don't expect me to say,
motherfucker right, and you know when you're talking, just come
on your motherfucking like, we gotta get this gold medal.
And all of a sudden, I wasn't this uh guy
from Duke in West Point, you know how. It's more
of the guy from the inner city of Chicago, you know.
(36:31):
So that's it for this episode. I'm Jack McCallum, Thanks
for listening. I'm JA that day. It's out next time
on Kobe, Lebron and the Redeem feat. The Dream Team Tapes.
Season two. Kobe lebron and the Redeem Team is a
(36:54):
production of Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
For more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit the i
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts for wherever you get your podcast.
This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum
and j Adande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances
(37:16):
for Diversion podcast and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio.
Our editorial director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy,
Legal producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by
Mark Frances. Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our
director of Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion
(37:46):
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