February 29, 2024 • 47 mins
In Part 5 of this Fire Pit Podcast series on how and why L.A.B. Golf's technology and their putters are gaining in prominence and popularity, you'll hear from Brett Rumford, an Australian short-game guru. Rumford explains "giving up control to gain control," sheds light on the technology and why it's "cutting edge," he shares details of his relationship with Adam Scott, the bumps he overcame with Sam Hahn and the engineering team of the company, and he articulates his frustrations with pros who sign a putter contract: “Free up your contract and free up your putting and you just fill up all of your heart’s desires.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Getting it in the hands of the greatest players in
the world, that's the number one thing, that's the convincing part.
And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point,
you know, wins back to back at possibly the most
critical time of the year. So just so and off
things go, so and more and more people will Zelatorus
(00:24):
is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today
in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera,
which is arguably possibly some of the toughest greens to
put on with the poe of their pure but tricky breaking.
I think he'll hold over well. The footage of puts
was crazy, and really at the end of the day,
winning all comes down to putting, basical at the end
(00:47):
of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler
to get one in his hands and the world, the
world will be a better place for him.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Put another log on all the five.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Nobody here is given time.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chanella. Here we
go part five of this story about how and why
lab Golf has stormed the gates of the old guards
of putting and the technology in putters. From Bill Pressey's
issues with his putter in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
LAB was ultimately started as a as a desperate attempt
to fix my own yips, because I had the yips
really bad, like I was shaking, like the putter when
I took it back, maybe rotated in thirty three different
directions by different degrees.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It is, just.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Couldn't stop it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
To Press's garage where he invents his revealer and ultimately
the original directed force putter, which he sold at the
trunk of his car. People like Matt Holme and Stuart
Smith had a big impact on the boutique business. Then
along comes Sam Han.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
They were about to close the doors, and I'd ask
Bill to put me in touch with the guys that
he was partnered with, worked out a deal with them. Me,
my dad, and my brother all put everything together and
bought out Bill's existing partners. And that's how the whole thing,
that's how LAB started. So then at that point, so
that was late twenty seventeen, I think we were officially,
(02:34):
you know, business married in early twenty eighteen, and we
were off to the races.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Through some hustle and sweat marketing. Han gets putters in
the bags of Jeff Sluman, von Taylor, people like Kelly Slater,
the eleven time world champion of surfing and scratch golfer,
founded on his own but was influencing others.
Speaker 7 (02:57):
I've just spoken about the club to anyone and anyone
who wants to listen, and generally I'll just play with
people and they'll see me roll the ball and it
just rolls so pure off the club that they can't
help but ask about it.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So Leader's friendship with Adam Scott leads to Scott not
only trying one, he made it his gamer.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
There's a fabulous stuff going on with the lab from
the grip to the head, other angles in between, and
being so non traditional it raised his eyebrows for sure.
But I just had this sense like this, you know,
if you can embrace what this potter does and stay
out of your own way, the results could come. And
(03:36):
I just had this feeling and I said it to Sam,
although it didn't pan out, but like, this was the
potter that can win around Augusta.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We ended Part four with independent validation from Adam Beach
of My Golf Spy.
Speaker 8 (03:48):
I think it's unfortunate, you know, golfers aren't as willing
to try unconventional things. But if more golfers were willing
to try this unconventional putter, I'm very confident that more
golfers would sink more cuts.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So you're caught up again. Lab Golf is rolling literally
and figuratively, and we're building to the Lucas Glover story,
which will include insight and thoughtful reflections from Glover, plus
his agent, one of his best friends, a Navy seal,
the Lab Tour Rep. Han Pressey, and a few more.
(04:21):
But before the back to back wins in August of
twenty twenty three, we're going back to twenty eighteen to
a hitch in Lab Golf's giddeup to a time in
the company's history in which they received pushback from an
Australian short game guru, a journeyman who's widely respected for
his articulate takes on chipping and putting and in this case,
(04:45):
for questioning labs lie angle and balance. Here's Sam Hahn again,
the CEO of Lab Golf.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
You're Brett Rumford. Yeah, Robbie, Yeah, there's a fucking legend,
absolutely the.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Guy and how does he fit in.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Bits in twice? This is great, so very early on
he gets it. So he's a thinker. So he's always
been an extraordinarily competent putter. But what's different about him
than like a Brad Faxon is that like Brett's like,
I'm gonna put well because I know how a putter
needs to move, so I'm happy to try anything because
I can make the putter move how it needs to move.
(05:27):
So he was always tinkering and always trying. He was
actually one of the first guys to be super competent
with a broomstick, despite the fact that, again he was
already a very competent putter. And so he emails us
very early on, maybe twenty eighteen, because there was there.
(05:49):
We had a weird little presence in Australia because Bill's
dad is actually Australian, so we had some putters over there.
Runny got a hold of one there and he emails
us and kind of gives us some feedback, and he's like,
you know, I get what you guys are trying to do,
but the way that this thing sets up is fucked,
And I'm like, well, what do you mean. He's like,
it doesn't sold properly because if I put your press
(06:11):
grip you know, I don't know if you've seen him enough.
Like the crooked grip we got on the putters there,
if I actually put that thing to neutral, the face
opens up. And at this point, I mean, this is
this is like literally year one of my education and
the whole putting role, and I'm like, I have no
idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Brett Rumford of Perth, Australia plays on the PGA Tour
of Australasia. He won the nineteen ninety eight Australian Amateur
and he won the nineteen ninety nine PGA Tour of
Australasia's an Z Players Championship. As an amateur after turning
pro in two thousand, he has won six European Tour events.
(06:51):
He played twenty six events on the PGA Tour in
two thousand and eight, where he made ten cuts and
had one top ten at the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic.
His best finish in a major was a T sixteen
at the two thousand and six Open Championship at Royal Liverpool,
which was won by Tiger Woods. When's the first time
(07:12):
you remember seeing or hearing about or holding it or like,
what when did directed force or Lab golf show up
on your radar.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I think I might have been. I was in Europe,
just traveling around, but there was a facility where we
played in Denmark, which was amazing. But there's a gentleman
there that actually had a proper putting lab started the art,
had all the equipment. So that was the first time
actually had seen the lab potters. So they which was
the original Direct Force, which is a real big head,
(07:45):
a little bit obscure, looking really random, but had all
the tech in it, crazy stable at the full, you know,
all the tech. So that was the first time I'd
seen it. And then from that meeting, the guy offered
me actually to take a few homes, so I took
a few home with varying lengths and lives. But this
is where I sort of saw the discrepancy with the
(08:06):
product in which they fixed subsequently, and they're doing a
great job with it. The thing with it is that
with the direct Force when they first came out, because
of that varyingly angle and length, that would change the
fixed point of where the radius would sit at the
end of the golf club. So what I found was
the wall the putter would still have the same effect
(08:27):
so it could sit more or less open or closed.
And I kind of just gave this feedback to one
of the guys at the facility, which I think got
back to LAB and they kind of blew up and said,
you know, the product you know was great and everything else,
and it was just my feedback. Anyways, that was my
first introduction to LAB.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
We go back and forth, and like I knew it
was a tour pro, but he was being a super
pain in the ass and just like relentlessly telling us
how stupid we are. The interaction actually ended in him
telling me to fuck off.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I don't know if you said it to them or
they Sam said it to you or whatever. It was
like a fuck off, you know. It was like, you know,
your feedback kind of devastated. It was kind of devastating
to him because he was like, wait a minute, you
know this guy's he's undermining our whole this is our
whole company. Yeah, of a sudden, you know you're coming
in and it was like that's what he said. Now
was that him to you or you to him? What
(09:25):
was there?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah? No, no, no, I was very look, hey, I'm
I'm one for It's really weird because I'm so far
as practice concerned. I don't know why, but I can
see things within within product that might be you know,
maybe not thought of or misaligned or otherwise anyway. For
some reason, I just think of these things, and when
(09:48):
I put it down, I'm very much probably was right
in my I guess forte, you know, because with my
mirror putting and everything else, I really got to make
sure my nineties are all all good and well. But
I just noticed some was wrong with this butter. I
took some photos and I sent it back to the
gentleman at this at this facility, and then obviously he
(10:08):
made the email and made contact with Sam, which then
subsequently told me to fuck off and went like nuts
nuts nuts. So two days later I got the feedback
and I went, okay, no, what I said, Look, it's
only my feedback, but look, you know what, yeah, if
there's and I'm look, I'm not saying with I'm not
saying that I'm smart. I'm just saying, hey, look this
(10:29):
is what I see, and yeah, there's there's people in
that facility that are like crazy smart, crazy smart. Yeah,
so but it is what it is. So but that
I don't have the I don't have the smarts to
work out how to fix it. That was their job,
and it's just great that that they've got on board
(10:52):
with it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Worse noting and as it relates to dates, my original
interview with Han was in August of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
About.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Six about six months ago. He reaches out again and
he's like, I've been using your mes one for you know,
however long things Absolutely brilliant. You fix the issue that
I was talking about, which I still kind of don't understand.
I mean I do I actually that's a lie. When
he reached out about the MEZ, I still didn't understand it.
(11:25):
I've since gotten some FaceTime with him and I totally
get it now and he's spot on correct. But what
was so cool about Brett was is that he went
through that whole thing that I did. He went through
that that that hangover period, and he stuck with it
because he knew there was something there. And so he
was here in June, came to the factory in June,
(11:47):
spent a couple of days here blowing all of our
minds and listening to Brett, you know, who's a very
well respected short game nerd. You know, I mean people
who know about putting. No Brett Rumfort and he uh,
he's telling me in his words, my whole stick, he's
(12:12):
telling you know, his the way that he puts it,
you know, like my tagline is like, you know you've
in the past you have to keep a face square,
and with us, all you have to do is let
a face stay square. And his whole thing is you
have to let go of control to gain control. That's
how how he describes, you know, what the what the
feeling is.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I think for me, I think the real light bulb
moment was like I've always thought the the technology in
the putter was was fantastic, Like I'm all on board
with it, and it truly is in terms of all
the stuff that's out there. It is definitely, you know,
cutting edge, and it is probably the only technology in
(12:53):
terms of what it is that actually is is different
to the rest. You know, it's it's literally zero talk
in every sense of the word. So when I was
playing not Yourself, I've been playing sort of like very
sparsely these days, doing a lot of coaching as well.
But we had a local tournament here thirty six goals
(13:14):
but still winnings, winning isn't it. You know, you're still
going to go through the same process as you're still
you know, you're still competing at a high level with
the local professionals here. But I got into a playoff
and hold a great put on seventeen and the rest.
But obviously with that heightened sense of adrenaline emotion, everything
else that starts to come out. Your senses get really
(13:37):
really alive. You know, they just buzz, They're just everything
that should feel, cease, smell, tusks, just everything is just
is alive. Right, it's alert. You're very aware of your
surroundings internally externally. But I had a thirty footer down
the hill, double breaker, crazy. It was a new green
Graham Marsh design. So for those that know Graham Marsh
(13:59):
is eight greens are always a little bit indifferent. They're
pretty funky tears ridges all over the place, but that's
his thing. So I had a really tricky part. But
all you can do in these situations is just try
and hit the best possible part you can. That's all
you're hoping for, and then you just basically let you
know what the golf and gods do the rest. But
(14:21):
when I stood over this thing. When I stood over
the part and I pulled the truth. As soon as
I took it away, there was just nothing within my hands.
It was just nothing. It was empty. And then when
I made the transition, it was still empty and there
was just there was no tension, there was no there
was no fight, there was no grab, there was nothing.
It kind of the part of just it just fell.
(14:43):
And as soon as I struck the part, all I
can remember was when I hit it, I just went,
my god, that was the best part I think I've
ever hit. But I think it was more the sense
of the feeling, my heightened sense of emotion that really
enacted me to this stroking this put But it was
just amazing in that situation where normally you might feel
(15:06):
a little bit of the tension or a little bit
of the grab or a little bit of that after
the hit, you feel like that little bit of the
acceleration or that I wouldn't use the word apprehension, but
it's just it is what it is. It's just nerves
and the rest. But this thing just flowed and it
just went it off of my hands and I just
looked up and I just went, Wow, that's got to
be the purest part I think I've ever hit subsequently
(15:28):
subsequently it went in. But irrespective of that, I just find,
I mean that that feeling and memory will last with
me for a long while, because I'd say to Sam,
if I had have had this technology, maybe when I
first turned pro, who knows how many order one, maybe
with the broomstick, a part of very well with the broomstick.
But yeah, look, it's just it's quite amazing technology. It's
(15:51):
pretty cool and you just got to experience it, but
you sort of you have to give it some time too,
because so many people don't like the feeling of no control,
that don't like the feeling of like giving up that
feeling of where the face is or the awareness of it.
And it's just I love the internal feeling where everything
this switches off through here rather than trying to feel
(16:11):
this tension, I just love the flow of it. And
you get into the flow after a while, but it
takes time, and.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
A lot of the high level pros the feedback we
get is they describe this very kind of vague feeling,
you know, in along kind of similar to what we
talked about before about it, you know, just kind of
how the potter head disappears. That's a good thing. That's
when you know you're doing it right. When it kind
of feels vague and free, that's when you know the
putter's face is squared up to the plane that you're
(16:38):
putting it on. It's when you start feeling resistance. That's
when you know you're off.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I find if you want more or less face rotation,
I would go more lying. So if you go sixty
eight to seventy two degree lying l and you're swinging
face to path, your appearance would be your face is
opening more or less, but it's still face to path.
So but if you want the visual of having more
or less face rotation, go flatter with your langel If
(17:02):
you want less, go more upright. So that's why I
went to a broomstick for all those years from four
right the way through to when it was banned. It
was cheating. It wasn't It wasn't cheating, but technically speaking,
it was like cheating. So and I just found that
was you know, I maxed out at eighty degrees pretty much,
(17:23):
which was legal at the time, still is legal today.
And Adam Scott still I mean, he's Scotty's sister genius. Anyway,
he's a kid, is so switched on and he's basically
now just swinging this sting with minimal face rotation relative
to his path, so there's less to try and do,
there's less to try and square up. So yeah, so
(17:45):
you start going lower. That's a lot of face rotation
unless you're doing it mechanically, and like Tiger probably would
open it more and close it more with his risk mechanics,
which probably not advisable. When you look at his putting
stroke on sam put Lab, it's not efficient at all.
It's not green at all, apart from the one aspect,
which is consistency. Is consistency is off the charts, but
(18:09):
every other paramet is a little bit ordinary. So maybe
you wouldn't copy it in an ideal world, but there's
always an exception to the rule. So yeah, So for me,
that whole face rotation concept is a little bit I
think misleading, And for me, it's it's all about with
the lab product, it's all about For me, it's like
(18:30):
giving up control to take control. And I think so
many people, you know, whether it's a personality or otherwise,
try to you know, control the face, control the stroke,
and they get so caught up in the stroke and
the plan and everything else, which is all good and world.
You do your work, but and you know, the holy
grail is having it perfectly arked and have your face
to path and all the rest of it. But there's
(18:53):
got to be a point where you just got to
go play, and you just got to go You just
got to get just give up all the controlling element.
You just got to just let it go.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The Revealer itself. Have you ever tinkered with the Revealer?
Have been on the Revealer?
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The Revealer is amazing. Huh. The thing, the crazy thing
with with the Revealer is that other product which has
similar tech with the you know you call it toe
up or face target balanced, or however you want to
refer to the lab face remaining vertical. You put in
the Revealer, and they don't test well at all the
(19:31):
same as any other potter. They get really loose and
out of balance. So love is the only potter. Is
What I mean is that it's it's like it's cutting edge.
It's there's nothing else like it on the planet. That
Revealer is is really you know, when you when you
speak to people about it about its technology and what
it does and how it how it will feel. But
then we actually put it in it and start doing
(19:53):
figure eights, that's crazy. Actually hitting puts with it, that's crazy.
So yeah, it's a pretty cool apparatus. Yeah, and I
think there needs to be more of that in pro
shops as well. They need to send more of that
that product out the revealer to give people a better
understanding and the insight as to what the technology is
all about.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Do you think it's fair to say that Bill Pressey
will go down in golf history someday as as revolutionary
a genius.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think yeah, I think he should already be at
that point anyway, just for coming up with the concept.
You know, it's an amazing concept, which and again it's
been refined, but not even refined. It's the same technology.
But I think anyone like you never stopped learning as
well at the same time, So the genius that is
Bill Pressy and the concept in which he's come up
with it's been refined. But I think, you know, in
(20:47):
saying that, maybe it's taken someone like Sam to sort of, hey,
like you know what, let's not this out. It takes
other other perspectives sometimes to make you know, the goal
of the dream work. And I think it's just like
anything in time. You know, there's you know, with successful
people whatever it may be, and times that have altered
(21:09):
the course of history as being in the right place
at the right time. So you know, it just needed
someone like Sam with his you know, broadened arise and
a bit more holistic, a bit more you know, inclusive,
to maybe just change Bill Presley's thinking. Who knows, with
the conversations that have gone by, and it's always a
case of, you know, even with Scottie Camera with with
(21:30):
Tiger like, you can't you can't replicate the history of
getting a partter in one man's hand in setting the
record books, you know. Alt. I mean, that's just the
right place at the right time. But still he had
the knowledge, he had the expertise, he had the product,
and it's just the case of just you know what,
(21:52):
you've got to be ready for it as well. So
I guess the world just isn't quite ready, but they're becoming,
they're becoming aware of it. And I think, and I
said to stand a long long time ago where his
product was, Yeah, it was right on that edge, wasn't it.
So it's just it was close, but just wasn't quite
cracking it. And I said, mate, you've got to be
ready when this thing goes. You've got to be ready.
You've got to have some product lined up, and you
(22:13):
better be ready because when this thing goes and the
technology gets you know, it gets out there and people
start to get their head around it, you've got to
be ready to be to capitalize on it. And that's
the thing is that how many units do you you know,
do you trust in it? You got the trust there,
you know, you know that it's a sound product. You
know it's amazing. You know, you just got to you
(22:34):
just got to win the people over. But and as
I said, you know, getting it in the hands of
the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing.
That's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's
classic case in point, you know, wins back to back
that possibly the most critical time of the year. So
just so and off things go so and more and
(22:56):
more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had
twenty two puts today in the third round of the
Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of
the toughest screens to put on. With the poet their
pure but tricky breaking, I think you'll hold over well.
The footage of parts was crazy, and really, at the
(23:16):
end of the day, winning all comes down to putting,
basically at the end of the day. So I'm just
waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands
and the world, the world will be a better place
for him.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
On that note, I asked Rumford to talk more about
the concept of letting go of control to gain control.
You can say that about a golf swing. You can
say that about life in general, right, but I mean
it certainly as it relates to this technology.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yes, that is the essence of it.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Look and not is zero understanding of the internals in
a golf swing and a chip shot. So when I
chip people of trans you know they're almost transfixed by
mesmerized by my low so to speak. But mastery comes
down to mastering the movement and then everything switches off,
so everything deactivates. So when you walk, you've mastered the
(24:09):
art of walking. Yes, So if I were to ask
you what you activate in your legs when you walk, truthfully,
just walk, anyone, just get it. Out of your couch,
whoever's listening to this right now, and just walk and
walk a little bit faster when I say that, and
walk a little bit faster again, and tell me what's
being activated. You couldn't tell me. You wouldn't know. So
unless you're actually standing there and actually physically activating your quads,
(24:31):
activating your hip flexes. That's where most people live. When
they chip, they literally they try and create a force.
They're trying to control the golf club, but which is
partly to do with the balance of the golf club.
So if you're in balance with chip in and I'd
rather find the balance of the golf club not so much. Plain,
we won't go down that rabbit hole. So but for me,
(24:52):
when I'm swinging, I couldn't tell you what I activate.
I can tell you where the golf club's traveling. I
could tell you what I'm doing, my orientation of lower
body and everything else the parts that I'm moving, But
I couldn't tell you, like walking, what I'm actually physically activating.
I wouldn't know. But that's that mastery of movement when
(25:14):
you're putting, that's what I feel that lab gives you. Anyway,
it just gives you that freedom of understanding what flows
all about, what that feeling of like giving up control
to take control. You don't control your legs when you walk,
You just walk, so and that's kind of like it's
a stupid analogy, but it's it's the only one I
(25:34):
can give you. And what's crazy about it in this
world is that everyone's signs with a putto contract. I
just that's the one thing when you talk about controlling
of all things, controlling the one club in your bag
that should be a free agent to do what you
want to the people out there listening and the juniors
(25:58):
coming through, don't so with a putter. Just use the
best product out there. Sign with third end clubs because
of the putter. As I say to my kids and
my juniors coming through, is that if you want to
buy that one hundred million dollar yacht, three hundred million
dollar yacht, if you want to go give millions to charity,
if you want houses all over the world's holiday destinations,
(26:20):
if you want to change the world in some way,
if you want to run for president one day eventually
with your influence in the game of golf. And that's
whole a part because Putting is the key to all
your heart's desires. That's the only club that's going to
basically give you all the success, all the records, all
the majors, everything else. One man did this for well,
(26:43):
two men have done it, actually, Nicholas and Tiger. You know,
people will say, if your life depends on it, who
are the two guys or one guy that's going to be,
you know, holding that part if your life depends on it,
and it's going to be Jack or Tiger. The two
people that basically have re written the record books over
two generations are the two people that basically just whole
(27:04):
puts for fun. So my advice would be to those
up and comers out there, or even for any of
these guys that are out there now. Adam Scott he
tore up his titles contract basically for other reasons, I'm
sure probably, but you know what, it's freed him up
with the one with the one thing, with the one
part of the game that basically has always struggled with,
(27:25):
you know, putting, And you look at his Adam Scott's
putting stats unbelievable. I think he led maybe a couple
of categories. And I've always said you look at any
stat you get inside the top thirty of the world's
best players on any tour. If you're inside that top
thirty on any stat then you're elite. Top thirty is elite.
So cracking twenty seventh you see twenty seventh on a
stat or twenty fourth, not even number one, very very
(27:47):
fine line between thirtieth and first, but you get thirtieth,
top thirtieth on any start, you're doing something very very well.
But so Scotty and all these guys you know that
have that part of that's freed up for them, free
up your contract, to free up your your putting. You
just might fulfill all your heart's desires. But I'm not
saying it's going to go like that. But hey, yeah,
(28:09):
I just find it crazy how people are locked in
with the parts and you know the complaint of the
car part, but they're stuck in this this contract I
just don't like the part of. But and you go, well,
that's what winning is all about. If you want to
be auted for winning, use something that's going to win, right,
Or if you just want to make top thirty make
a living, then yeah, sign a contract and just you know,
(28:29):
just hate yourself for the rest of your life. It's ridiculous.
It's just the most stupid thing I think I could
you could. In my experience, it's most, yes, most for anything.
And that's the blessing with with Titleist was the fact
that I could use whatever I wanted throughout my career.
So I've got thirteen clubs. The drive is definitely a
(28:50):
have to use it d either, that's a non negotiable
there in the contract. But I think Titleist, Yeah, trust
in the product. You want to use the product, you can,
but if not, use something else. So that's my two cents.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Anyway, I went back through Adam Scott's putting stats in
twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, before he started using lab putters,
he was one hundred and sixty fifth in strokes gained
putting and one hundred and seventy fifth in putting average.
In twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which is when he made
the switch, he jumped to thirty first in strokes gain
(29:25):
putting and was forty third in putting average in twenty
nineteen twenty twenty. He was forty ninth and forty fourth, respectively.
In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, he was eighteenth and
fortieth in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, he
was forty first and thirty fourth. In twenty twenty two
(29:49):
and twenty twenty three he was nineteenth and ninth. And
this year and it's early, he's fiftieth and thirty third.
He's on his sixth street year of using a lab
putter and the sixth consecutive year of never being outside
the top fifty and two critical putting stats. Have you
ever had a conversation with Adam or Lucas about labs,
(30:13):
specifically with Scotty.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yes, yeah, Look, Scotty and I we're very much on
the same page. So yeah, that conversation is just like
speaking to me in a mirror, right from where it goes.
So I used the broomstick a long long time ago
and then he switched to the broomstick. You know, I
talked about how I used it and stuff, and he's like,
you know, the same thing. So Scott is very astute.
(30:37):
So yeah, he thinks about the game, Scotty, you know
as much as you don't. You know, you think he's
very very technically sound, which he is probably doesn't think
too much about the golf swing, but he does about
other areas of the game. So I spent some time
with it with the PGA. We've got on the chip
and green. I'm filling his brains with all these you know,
my thoughts and feels. And we spent about two hours
(30:59):
there is back in maybe eighteen twenty eighteen. I'd cool
them and we go to the driving range and we're
hitting a few balls next to each other. We're just
talking about, you know, stuff as mates do. And I
just asked him about he's ripping these drives down. It
like just just flat plane, just frozen rowe one half
of the other, like twenty thirty in a row. And
I've always like struggled with driving, you know, so he's
(31:20):
struggled with chipping a little bit. But I'm getting very
technical and everything else with the short game and telling how,
you know, how I changed things to manipulate flights and stuff.
And then you know, what do you do with the
driver Scotty, Well, you know, Rabbie is what I thought.
You know what, here we go. I'm going to get
the I'm going to get the holy Grail of secrets
here and I'm on it right So Scotty starts talking about, well,
(31:43):
what I do. I mean, I get my nineties, so
I get my grip right, and then I just really
ensure that nine degrees to my target. You know, I'm
all squared off because he is it so straight. It's
very very important if you get it very straight and
very repetitive something. And yeah, that makes sense, and he
goes the first poot. You know, I'm just trying to
feel as out the face just like remains fairly square
to the golf ball, like it's just like looking at it.
(32:05):
And then after that, I don't know. I can't tell
you what I do, and I just gon't. You're gonna
be kidding me. If you've got to give me more
than that, Scotty, give me something, It's like, nah, just
get my nineties, keep the face square. This is all
I know is that, you know, from this point here,
(32:28):
like I'm very very very aware of this point. Beyond that,
all I know is that I've just got the most
videoed and photographed golf swing probably in the game. But
what I do you're from me? I was devastated. I
was like, oh no, that's not going to work for me.
So oh man, in terms of putting though, he's very
(32:51):
very that's kind of like where it flips, you know's
goal swing. He's got that, you know, locked away, and
then when he gets degree, you know, he's I've always
found that he's he's used part is too heavy, so
with the lab and particularly the long one as well.
You know, you get on greens like Augusta and you
get a part of that's really really heavy. But he
kind of like liked that. But that's why Scotty has
(33:11):
had that really long short stroke kind of thing at
the masses where it's like like reversing a train and
then trying to put it forward. It's like, oh shit,
it takes some time, right, So you kind of like
want to have a bit more of that, you know
that that faster beats for a minute, should I say,
but maintain the same ratio. So, but the other thing
(33:31):
I've ever said to Scotty was this, man, you need
to lighten up this head, just line up the whole thing,
because it's the broomsticks all good and well, but still
you just want to try and create a bit more
more flow with a bit more speed and have that
dynamic of stroke sort of match backstroke to follow through.
But that's the only thing I've ever said to Scotty
in terms of parting and the rest is you don't
say too much to Scotty really, so he's a yeah,
(33:55):
he's a world clock.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Back to Adam Scott, who if You're not caught up,
was prominent part four of this series. Brett Rumford, who
I'm sure sure you know he he pushed back on
Sam and the technology originally sort of tried it and said,
you know that he had some issues with this going back,
you know, early days, and then eventually came back as
(34:19):
they continued to tweak what they were doing. He came
back in and said, you know what, and now I
get it. I'm I'm all in. I've I've bought it,
almost like independently, was having his own kind of relationship
with the putter of the technology, the feel and he
said something to them, which is I finally get it.
(34:40):
You've got to let go of control to gain control.
Does that ring true to you? Is that something that
makes sense to you?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think absolutely it does. I think, you know, I
try and do that with my entire game. But we're
we're so professional in a senseue we think of everything
all the time, we're trying to be so good at
every little part of it, and when it comes to
performing and shooting the lower score, you know, you want
(35:10):
to have all the stuff under control that you've thought
about and then forget it and just execute and just
play and just let go. And that's what I'm trying
to do generally. So I think I think that does
ring true. I probably didn't have the internal fights that
Rummy had in his head with the putter. I was
just like, yeah, this swing's really good. Yeah, this is
(35:30):
getting a consistent role. I don't need to find necessarily
fault with it. How about I just use this thing
and make more putts. And I was enjoying that end
of it. And I've really enjoyed the relationship with Sam
and his team and being able to give him feedback
and then being receptive to that feedback, and in developing
(35:53):
the MEZ and the mes Max and you know, getting
to a place where I feel like I'm putting with
as good a putter as I can cut with. That's
that's been a fun process for me.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think he's very factual Scotty. I don't think he
does anything, you know, on a whim or out of
just you know, there is feel. I think, yeah, Scotty
is very much a feel player, but I think at
the same time he's very factual as well, So he's
very very calculative Scotty. As much as you think he's
very feel orientated, he's still very shoot with his with
his thoughts and his concepts of what he's doing. So
(36:25):
but very definite as well. And when he and the
game is all that confidence, isn't it. You know, So
when you start to back up you know, science technology
with the feel and then the understanding, it's a it's
a very powerful concoction of you know, of positives that's
going to give you that that unequivocal without a doubt.
Just go play. You know everything's locked away. Just go
(36:48):
play now and that's probably the best thing. You know,
you get a bit in the world of what it's
all about, and then just go play. The idea of
golf is just go play. Don't have to worry about
all the all that stuff. You know, and does become feel,
it becomes you know intuitive, just step up, give up
control to take control and just let it go. You know,
that's that's the world where you want to live. Get
(37:09):
sold on the technology. Sure, that's you know, anyone can
sell a putter, but at the end of the day,
you have to you have to live with it, so
and you've got to compete with that technology day and
day out for your livelihood or otherwise or kicking your
ass's mates. So yeah, kicking the butts of your mates
and the rest of it. So and I think that's
what wins people over eventually, is is that at the
(37:32):
end of the day, that's it. The only other thing
is maybe just the loft dynamics that I'm trying. I'm
working hard with Samy on, but I just want.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
To see maybe the options of lofts, maybe because the
putter does sold so well, and maybe having two or
three heads that with varying surfaces, you might be able
to just manipulate the losts without you know, trying to
throw your hands.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Back and forth. But that's about it, and love the
rest it's I think.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
Yeah, him coming here in June, We're hoping was the
beginning of a very beautiful relationship between us, and he's
able to communicate this stuff to people that you know,
who trust him and everything, and it's a beautiful relationship.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah, they said your visits to Oregon and your feedback
and your your your your thoughts in perspective have been
critical to UH to to where they are as a company.
So they give you a lot of credit and uh
and they you know, in the end, I think they've
really appreciated the back and forth and you making the
(38:35):
effort and the trips and yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I'm more I'm more thankful that that Sam reached out
and made the contact, and not to say that he
admitted the wrongings, but it was just cool that he
that he reached out and you know, just yeah, it
got to the bottom of it, and probably just more
just try to clarify what his engineers already saw anyway,
so they're they're already on it. They're already on the
(39:00):
same page. So I certainly want want to take credit
full credit for for what those guys are doing over there,
because it's amazing what they're doing. The factor is incredible,
it's growing every day. But they're prepared from the last
time I was there. They've got some amazing technology. They've
got some amazing machinery in there as well, which is
(39:21):
doing his job. So just an awesome company, awesome family.
At the end of the day when you get to
that first green, it's just all about locking into holding
a part and just the more things that you can
eliminate in the thought process with putting them, the better,
you know, simplify it to just hitting that the best
puts you can. And a classic example was a story
(39:43):
I told at the Cotta Slow Open where I've got
a thirty footer. There's lots of stuff that can happen
in between the impact of that golfer going in the hole,
but at the end of the day, you go, you
just got to give up on that and just put
the best stroke you can on it. And that's what
was really evident. It was just an amazing moment for
me which I went, Okay, I get it. I understand
(40:04):
what Sam's on about a bill and the technology, what
it's all about. So it was just purely just emptied.
It was amazing. It was quite don't want too used
the word it was very spiritual.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
What version, what version do you put with?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, I've I loved the DF three, I've had the prototype,
and now they've just come out with a new DF
which I'm Sam's going to be sending me well right now,
So I think it's in the post, so I can't
wait to get my hands on that because I love
the DF. I love I love it's yeah, I love
its size, and I love it shaft and I love
(40:43):
it's offset as well. So I just love seeing a
lot of the face. There's no shaft wall that's that's
interfering with the with the leading edge. So just it's
just really out there in the open and it's just
good sight lines. I just love it and it just
feels crazy balanced. I've used them all. The link is right.
I'm using the MESSI max at the moment mes max so,
(41:04):
which is awesome as well. So they're all all the
tech is the same. I can I can part with
any any one of them. And I do you know,
play Wednesday comes here. I'm playing once or twice a
week and I just alternated. I mix it up. It's
a good feeling.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
We end this episode fittingly where it all began with
Bill Pressey.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
I just so I talked to Sam yesterday. I sent
him a message and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be
on the fire Pit Collective tomorrow. Is there any you
know messages or you know the coaching, Uh, what's our message?
Speaker 5 (41:46):
And it's just just just do your thing. Am I okay?
All right?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
And I'm like, you sound busy. He's like, yeah, I'm
playing I'm playing golf with the Brent Rumfer right now.
So that was yesterday.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
But I don't know anything else about it. What you
tell me?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Well, apparently he he second guessed the technology. Then eventually
he came back and endorsed the technology he had. He
was like a critic and now he's he's in within
the culture and ultimately came up with the realization that quote,
(42:27):
this is what was told to me. You've got to
let go of control to gain control.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
That's correct, That's cool. I don't I don't know anything
about this. I've been out in the woods for a
couple of days. That's great. Ah, he's such a good dude.
He's one of the good guys.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
He's second guest. He second guest. He had issues with it.
It didn't make sense to him. He's he he got
he went down the rabbit hole, he got in the weeds,
and ultimately, you know, back and forthing with Sam or whatever,
and then ultimately came back with like, hold on, now,
I think you guys got it right now, I'm I'm
(43:12):
in on it now it's I see it, and now
I've realized. I've come to the realization that quote, in
order to have this technology do what it's supposed to do,
in order to have lie Angle Balance perform what it's
supposed to do, which is basically the review, what is
the revealer, it's totally letting go of control in order
(43:34):
to gain control. That's what it articulates, right in a
very simple form. He had to come to it to
himself and ultimately decided that in order to make this work,
you got to let go of control to gain control.
And that was his light bulb moment. And now he's
all in.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
That's so cool. I have to talk to Sam Tomar
or later today or something. I didn't know. This is great.
He's a you know, outside the Raiders thing. You know,
he's a great guy.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Fuck the Raiders. Hey, uh yeah, uh you know, I
mean seriously, lab Putters quote let go of control to
gain control. It's actually it's actually it actually works in
life too, right, Like sometimes you've gotta sometimes you've got
to let go to to gain control.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And I think people let go of their fears the
hardest thing that even though, like it's a fear, you
think it would be easy to let go of, right,
But fear in golf is the hardest thing by far.
The scar tissue in and and the memories that that
that exist in lurking your subconscious somewhere during that backstroke,
(45:01):
they tend to open the door.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
And that is the.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
The fear there's you know what fear comes from, I'll
tell you it comes from missing, right, comes from missing
You know, what you miss is torque and unless you
practice enough, or you've got this innate ability to know
(45:28):
this particular golf club just like a good driver or
like a good wedge that you have, you know it.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
You know what it's gonna do.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
But when you take away the torque, you could take
away the fear and start reprogramming. And then you know,
if you miss putts, it's a misread or or you
made a poor stroke. It wasn't the yips though, the
yips is, there's there's no bigger fear that is.
Speaker 5 (45:56):
I've had that.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
Have you ever had the yips with your driver? I've
had the yips with my driver before. And it's the
same thing. It's it's a it's a fear and and
that's a scary, scary place to be in. I can't
imagine a professional making a living to feed his family
(46:18):
and pay his mortgage and all that stuff playing golf
with the yips.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
That's just insane.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
On the subject of yips, up next, a deep dive
into the Lucas Glover story. You'll hear from Glover, his agent,
one of his best friends, a Navy seal, and several others,
including more from Sam Hun.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Lucas Glover crazy. Is it absolutely nuts?
Speaker 6 (46:48):
I mean, there's there's nothing to say. I mean, it's
just there's there's nothing to say that hasn't been said
in you know that the tens of thousands of words
that have been written about him in the last couple
of weeks, and he deserves every one of them. I've
seen some remarkable turnarounds. I've never seen anything like that.
(47:09):
I've never seen anything like it, and it's so fucking validating.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
get the time
Getting it in the hands of the greatest players in
the world, that's the number one thing, that's the convincing part.
And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point,
you know, wins back to back at possibly the most
critical time of the year. So just so and off
things go, so and more and more people will Zelatorus
(00:24):
is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today
in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera,
which is arguably possibly some of the toughest greens to
put on with the poe of their pure but tricky breaking.
I think he'll hold over well. The footage of puts
was crazy, and really at the end of the day,
winning all comes down to putting, basical at the end
(00:47):
of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler
to get one in his hands and the world, the
world will be a better place for him.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Put another log on all the five.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Nobody here is given time.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chanella. Here we
go part five of this story about how and why
lab Golf has stormed the gates of the old guards
of putting and the technology in putters. From Bill Pressey's
issues with his putter in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
LAB was ultimately started as a as a desperate attempt
to fix my own yips, because I had the yips
really bad, like I was shaking, like the putter when
I took it back, maybe rotated in thirty three different
directions by different degrees.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It is, just.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Couldn't stop it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
To Press's garage where he invents his revealer and ultimately
the original directed force putter, which he sold at the
trunk of his car. People like Matt Holme and Stuart
Smith had a big impact on the boutique business. Then
along comes Sam Han.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
They were about to close the doors, and I'd ask
Bill to put me in touch with the guys that
he was partnered with, worked out a deal with them. Me,
my dad, and my brother all put everything together and
bought out Bill's existing partners. And that's how the whole thing,
that's how LAB started. So then at that point, so
that was late twenty seventeen, I think we were officially,
(02:34):
you know, business married in early twenty eighteen, and we
were off to the races.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Through some hustle and sweat marketing. Han gets putters in
the bags of Jeff Sluman, von Taylor, people like Kelly Slater,
the eleven time world champion of surfing and scratch golfer,
founded on his own but was influencing others.
Speaker 7 (02:57):
I've just spoken about the club to anyone and anyone
who wants to listen, and generally I'll just play with
people and they'll see me roll the ball and it
just rolls so pure off the club that they can't
help but ask about it.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So Leader's friendship with Adam Scott leads to Scott not
only trying one, he made it his gamer.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
There's a fabulous stuff going on with the lab from
the grip to the head, other angles in between, and
being so non traditional it raised his eyebrows for sure.
But I just had this sense like this, you know,
if you can embrace what this potter does and stay
out of your own way, the results could come. And
(03:36):
I just had this feeling and I said it to Sam,
although it didn't pan out, but like, this was the
potter that can win around Augusta.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We ended Part four with independent validation from Adam Beach
of My Golf Spy.
Speaker 8 (03:48):
I think it's unfortunate, you know, golfers aren't as willing
to try unconventional things. But if more golfers were willing
to try this unconventional putter, I'm very confident that more
golfers would sink more cuts.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So you're caught up again. Lab Golf is rolling literally
and figuratively, and we're building to the Lucas Glover story,
which will include insight and thoughtful reflections from Glover, plus
his agent, one of his best friends, a Navy seal,
the Lab Tour Rep. Han Pressey, and a few more.
(04:21):
But before the back to back wins in August of
twenty twenty three, we're going back to twenty eighteen to
a hitch in Lab Golf's giddeup to a time in
the company's history in which they received pushback from an
Australian short game guru, a journeyman who's widely respected for
his articulate takes on chipping and putting and in this case,
(04:45):
for questioning labs lie angle and balance. Here's Sam Hahn again,
the CEO of Lab Golf.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
You're Brett Rumford. Yeah, Robbie, Yeah, there's a fucking legend,
absolutely the.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Guy and how does he fit in.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Bits in twice? This is great, so very early on
he gets it. So he's a thinker. So he's always
been an extraordinarily competent putter. But what's different about him
than like a Brad Faxon is that like Brett's like,
I'm gonna put well because I know how a putter
needs to move, so I'm happy to try anything because
I can make the putter move how it needs to move.
(05:27):
So he was always tinkering and always trying. He was
actually one of the first guys to be super competent
with a broomstick, despite the fact that, again he was
already a very competent putter. And so he emails us
very early on, maybe twenty eighteen, because there was there.
(05:49):
We had a weird little presence in Australia because Bill's
dad is actually Australian, so we had some putters over there.
Runny got a hold of one there and he emails
us and kind of gives us some feedback, and he's like,
you know, I get what you guys are trying to do,
but the way that this thing sets up is fucked,
And I'm like, well, what do you mean. He's like,
it doesn't sold properly because if I put your press
(06:11):
grip you know, I don't know if you've seen him enough.
Like the crooked grip we got on the putters there,
if I actually put that thing to neutral, the face
opens up. And at this point, I mean, this is
this is like literally year one of my education and
the whole putting role, and I'm like, I have no
idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Brett Rumford of Perth, Australia plays on the PGA Tour
of Australasia. He won the nineteen ninety eight Australian Amateur
and he won the nineteen ninety nine PGA Tour of
Australasia's an Z Players Championship. As an amateur after turning
pro in two thousand, he has won six European Tour events.
(06:51):
He played twenty six events on the PGA Tour in
two thousand and eight, where he made ten cuts and
had one top ten at the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic.
His best finish in a major was a T sixteen
at the two thousand and six Open Championship at Royal Liverpool,
which was won by Tiger Woods. When's the first time
(07:12):
you remember seeing or hearing about or holding it or like,
what when did directed force or Lab golf show up
on your radar.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I think I might have been. I was in Europe,
just traveling around, but there was a facility where we
played in Denmark, which was amazing. But there's a gentleman
there that actually had a proper putting lab started the art,
had all the equipment. So that was the first time
actually had seen the lab potters. So they which was
the original Direct Force, which is a real big head,
(07:45):
a little bit obscure, looking really random, but had all
the tech in it, crazy stable at the full, you know,
all the tech. So that was the first time I'd
seen it. And then from that meeting, the guy offered
me actually to take a few homes, so I took
a few home with varying lengths and lives. But this
is where I sort of saw the discrepancy with the
(08:06):
product in which they fixed subsequently, and they're doing a
great job with it. The thing with it is that
with the direct Force when they first came out, because
of that varyingly angle and length, that would change the
fixed point of where the radius would sit at the
end of the golf club. So what I found was
the wall the putter would still have the same effect
(08:27):
so it could sit more or less open or closed.
And I kind of just gave this feedback to one
of the guys at the facility, which I think got
back to LAB and they kind of blew up and said,
you know, the product you know was great and everything else,
and it was just my feedback. Anyways, that was my
first introduction to LAB.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
We go back and forth, and like I knew it
was a tour pro, but he was being a super
pain in the ass and just like relentlessly telling us
how stupid we are. The interaction actually ended in him
telling me to fuck off.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I don't know if you said it to them or
they Sam said it to you or whatever. It was
like a fuck off, you know. It was like, you know,
your feedback kind of devastated. It was kind of devastating
to him because he was like, wait a minute, you
know this guy's he's undermining our whole this is our
whole company. Yeah, of a sudden, you know you're coming
in and it was like that's what he said. Now
was that him to you or you to him? What
(09:25):
was there?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah? No, no, no, I was very look, hey, I'm
I'm one for It's really weird because I'm so far
as practice concerned. I don't know why, but I can
see things within within product that might be you know,
maybe not thought of or misaligned or otherwise anyway. For
some reason, I just think of these things, and when
(09:48):
I put it down, I'm very much probably was right
in my I guess forte, you know, because with my
mirror putting and everything else, I really got to make
sure my nineties are all all good and well. But
I just noticed some was wrong with this butter. I
took some photos and I sent it back to the
gentleman at this at this facility, and then obviously he
(10:08):
made the email and made contact with Sam, which then
subsequently told me to fuck off and went like nuts
nuts nuts. So two days later I got the feedback
and I went, okay, no, what I said, Look, it's
only my feedback, but look, you know what, yeah, if
there's and I'm look, I'm not saying with I'm not
saying that I'm smart. I'm just saying, hey, look this
(10:29):
is what I see, and yeah, there's there's people in
that facility that are like crazy smart, crazy smart. Yeah,
so but it is what it is. So but that
I don't have the I don't have the smarts to
work out how to fix it. That was their job,
and it's just great that that they've got on board
(10:52):
with it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Worse noting and as it relates to dates, my original
interview with Han was in August of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
About.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Six about six months ago. He reaches out again and
he's like, I've been using your mes one for you know,
however long things Absolutely brilliant. You fix the issue that
I was talking about, which I still kind of don't understand.
I mean I do I actually that's a lie. When
he reached out about the MEZ, I still didn't understand it.
(11:25):
I've since gotten some FaceTime with him and I totally
get it now and he's spot on correct. But what
was so cool about Brett was is that he went
through that whole thing that I did. He went through
that that that hangover period, and he stuck with it
because he knew there was something there. And so he
was here in June, came to the factory in June,
(11:47):
spent a couple of days here blowing all of our
minds and listening to Brett, you know, who's a very
well respected short game nerd. You know, I mean people
who know about putting. No Brett Rumfort and he uh,
he's telling me in his words, my whole stick, he's
(12:12):
telling you know, his the way that he puts it,
you know, like my tagline is like, you know you've
in the past you have to keep a face square,
and with us, all you have to do is let
a face stay square. And his whole thing is you
have to let go of control to gain control. That's
how how he describes, you know, what the what the
feeling is.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I think for me, I think the real light bulb
moment was like I've always thought the the technology in
the putter was was fantastic, Like I'm all on board
with it, and it truly is in terms of all
the stuff that's out there. It is definitely, you know,
cutting edge, and it is probably the only technology in
(12:53):
terms of what it is that actually is is different
to the rest. You know, it's it's literally zero talk
in every sense of the word. So when I was
playing not Yourself, I've been playing sort of like very
sparsely these days, doing a lot of coaching as well.
But we had a local tournament here thirty six goals
(13:14):
but still winnings, winning isn't it. You know, you're still
going to go through the same process as you're still
you know, you're still competing at a high level with
the local professionals here. But I got into a playoff
and hold a great put on seventeen and the rest.
But obviously with that heightened sense of adrenaline emotion, everything
else that starts to come out. Your senses get really
(13:37):
really alive. You know, they just buzz, They're just everything
that should feel, cease, smell, tusks, just everything is just
is alive. Right, it's alert. You're very aware of your
surroundings internally externally. But I had a thirty footer down
the hill, double breaker, crazy. It was a new green
Graham Marsh design. So for those that know Graham Marsh
(13:59):
is eight greens are always a little bit indifferent. They're
pretty funky tears ridges all over the place, but that's
his thing. So I had a really tricky part. But
all you can do in these situations is just try
and hit the best possible part you can. That's all
you're hoping for, and then you just basically let you
know what the golf and gods do the rest. But
(14:21):
when I stood over this thing. When I stood over
the part and I pulled the truth. As soon as
I took it away, there was just nothing within my hands.
It was just nothing. It was empty. And then when
I made the transition, it was still empty and there
was just there was no tension, there was no there
was no fight, there was no grab, there was nothing.
It kind of the part of just it just fell.
(14:43):
And as soon as I struck the part, all I
can remember was when I hit it, I just went,
my god, that was the best part I think I've
ever hit. But I think it was more the sense
of the feeling, my heightened sense of emotion that really
enacted me to this stroking this put But it was
just amazing in that situation where normally you might feel
(15:06):
a little bit of the tension or a little bit
of the grab or a little bit of that after
the hit, you feel like that little bit of the
acceleration or that I wouldn't use the word apprehension, but
it's just it is what it is. It's just nerves
and the rest. But this thing just flowed and it
just went it off of my hands and I just
looked up and I just went, Wow, that's got to
be the purest part I think I've ever hit subsequently
(15:28):
subsequently it went in. But irrespective of that, I just find,
I mean that that feeling and memory will last with
me for a long while, because I'd say to Sam,
if I had have had this technology, maybe when I
first turned pro, who knows how many order one, maybe
with the broomstick, a part of very well with the broomstick.
But yeah, look, it's just it's quite amazing technology. It's
(15:51):
pretty cool and you just got to experience it, but
you sort of you have to give it some time too,
because so many people don't like the feeling of no control,
that don't like the feeling of like giving up that
feeling of where the face is or the awareness of it.
And it's just I love the internal feeling where everything
this switches off through here rather than trying to feel
(16:11):
this tension, I just love the flow of it. And
you get into the flow after a while, but it
takes time, and.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
A lot of the high level pros the feedback we
get is they describe this very kind of vague feeling,
you know, in along kind of similar to what we
talked about before about it, you know, just kind of
how the potter head disappears. That's a good thing. That's
when you know you're doing it right. When it kind
of feels vague and free, that's when you know the
putter's face is squared up to the plane that you're
(16:38):
putting it on. It's when you start feeling resistance. That's
when you know you're off.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I find if you want more or less face rotation,
I would go more lying. So if you go sixty
eight to seventy two degree lying l and you're swinging
face to path, your appearance would be your face is
opening more or less, but it's still face to path.
So but if you want the visual of having more
or less face rotation, go flatter with your langel If
(17:02):
you want less, go more upright. So that's why I
went to a broomstick for all those years from four
right the way through to when it was banned. It
was cheating. It wasn't It wasn't cheating, but technically speaking,
it was like cheating. So and I just found that
was you know, I maxed out at eighty degrees pretty much,
(17:23):
which was legal at the time, still is legal today.
And Adam Scott still I mean, he's Scotty's sister genius. Anyway,
he's a kid, is so switched on and he's basically
now just swinging this sting with minimal face rotation relative
to his path, so there's less to try and do,
there's less to try and square up. So yeah, so
(17:45):
you start going lower. That's a lot of face rotation
unless you're doing it mechanically, and like Tiger probably would
open it more and close it more with his risk mechanics,
which probably not advisable. When you look at his putting
stroke on sam put Lab, it's not efficient at all.
It's not green at all, apart from the one aspect,
which is consistency. Is consistency is off the charts, but
(18:09):
every other paramet is a little bit ordinary. So maybe
you wouldn't copy it in an ideal world, but there's
always an exception to the rule. So yeah, So for me,
that whole face rotation concept is a little bit I
think misleading, And for me, it's it's all about with
the lab product, it's all about For me, it's like
(18:30):
giving up control to take control. And I think so
many people, you know, whether it's a personality or otherwise,
try to you know, control the face, control the stroke,
and they get so caught up in the stroke and
the plan and everything else, which is all good and world.
You do your work, but and you know, the holy
grail is having it perfectly arked and have your face
to path and all the rest of it. But there's
(18:53):
got to be a point where you just got to
go play, and you just got to go You just
got to get just give up all the controlling element.
You just got to just let it go.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The Revealer itself. Have you ever tinkered with the Revealer?
Have been on the Revealer?
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The Revealer is amazing. Huh. The thing, the crazy thing
with with the Revealer is that other product which has
similar tech with the you know you call it toe
up or face target balanced, or however you want to
refer to the lab face remaining vertical. You put in
the Revealer, and they don't test well at all the
(19:31):
same as any other potter. They get really loose and
out of balance. So love is the only potter. Is
What I mean is that it's it's like it's cutting edge.
It's there's nothing else like it on the planet. That
Revealer is is really you know, when you when you
speak to people about it about its technology and what
it does and how it how it will feel. But
then we actually put it in it and start doing
(19:53):
figure eights, that's crazy. Actually hitting puts with it, that's crazy.
So yeah, it's a pretty cool apparatus. Yeah, and I
think there needs to be more of that in pro
shops as well. They need to send more of that
that product out the revealer to give people a better
understanding and the insight as to what the technology is
all about.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Do you think it's fair to say that Bill Pressey
will go down in golf history someday as as revolutionary
a genius.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think yeah, I think he should already be at
that point anyway, just for coming up with the concept.
You know, it's an amazing concept, which and again it's
been refined, but not even refined. It's the same technology.
But I think anyone like you never stopped learning as
well at the same time, So the genius that is
Bill Pressy and the concept in which he's come up
with it's been refined. But I think, you know, in
(20:47):
saying that, maybe it's taken someone like Sam to sort of, hey,
like you know what, let's not this out. It takes
other other perspectives sometimes to make you know, the goal
of the dream work. And I think it's just like
anything in time. You know, there's you know, with successful
people whatever it may be, and times that have altered
(21:09):
the course of history as being in the right place
at the right time. So you know, it just needed
someone like Sam with his you know, broadened arise and
a bit more holistic, a bit more you know, inclusive,
to maybe just change Bill Presley's thinking. Who knows, with
the conversations that have gone by, and it's always a
case of, you know, even with Scottie Camera with with
(21:30):
Tiger like, you can't you can't replicate the history of
getting a partter in one man's hand in setting the
record books, you know. Alt. I mean, that's just the
right place at the right time. But still he had
the knowledge, he had the expertise, he had the product,
and it's just the case of just you know what,
(21:52):
you've got to be ready for it as well. So
I guess the world just isn't quite ready, but they're becoming,
they're becoming aware of it. And I think, and I
said to stand a long long time ago where his
product was, Yeah, it was right on that edge, wasn't it.
So it's just it was close, but just wasn't quite
cracking it. And I said, mate, you've got to be
ready when this thing goes. You've got to be ready.
You've got to have some product lined up, and you
(22:13):
better be ready because when this thing goes and the
technology gets you know, it gets out there and people
start to get their head around it, you've got to
be ready to be to capitalize on it. And that's
the thing is that how many units do you you know,
do you trust in it? You got the trust there,
you know, you know that it's a sound product. You
know it's amazing. You know, you just got to you
(22:34):
just got to win the people over. But and as
I said, you know, getting it in the hands of
the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing.
That's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's
classic case in point, you know, wins back to back
that possibly the most critical time of the year. So
just so and off things go so and more and
(22:56):
more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had
twenty two puts today in the third round of the
Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of
the toughest screens to put on. With the poet their
pure but tricky breaking, I think you'll hold over well.
The footage of parts was crazy, and really, at the
(23:16):
end of the day, winning all comes down to putting,
basically at the end of the day. So I'm just
waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands
and the world, the world will be a better place
for him.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
On that note, I asked Rumford to talk more about
the concept of letting go of control to gain control.
You can say that about a golf swing. You can
say that about life in general, right, but I mean
it certainly as it relates to this technology.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yes, that is the essence of it.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Look and not is zero understanding of the internals in
a golf swing and a chip shot. So when I
chip people of trans you know they're almost transfixed by
mesmerized by my low so to speak. But mastery comes
down to mastering the movement and then everything switches off,
so everything deactivates. So when you walk, you've mastered the
(24:09):
art of walking. Yes, So if I were to ask
you what you activate in your legs when you walk, truthfully,
just walk, anyone, just get it. Out of your couch,
whoever's listening to this right now, and just walk and
walk a little bit faster when I say that, and
walk a little bit faster again, and tell me what's
being activated. You couldn't tell me. You wouldn't know. So
unless you're actually standing there and actually physically activating your quads,
(24:31):
activating your hip flexes. That's where most people live. When
they chip, they literally they try and create a force.
They're trying to control the golf club, but which is
partly to do with the balance of the golf club.
So if you're in balance with chip in and I'd
rather find the balance of the golf club not so much. Plain,
we won't go down that rabbit hole. So but for me,
(24:52):
when I'm swinging, I couldn't tell you what I activate.
I can tell you where the golf club's traveling. I
could tell you what I'm doing, my orientation of lower
body and everything else the parts that I'm moving, But
I couldn't tell you, like walking, what I'm actually physically activating.
I wouldn't know. But that's that mastery of movement when
(25:14):
you're putting, that's what I feel that lab gives you. Anyway,
it just gives you that freedom of understanding what flows
all about, what that feeling of like giving up control
to take control. You don't control your legs when you walk,
You just walk, so and that's kind of like it's
a stupid analogy, but it's it's the only one I
(25:34):
can give you. And what's crazy about it in this
world is that everyone's signs with a putto contract. I
just that's the one thing when you talk about controlling
of all things, controlling the one club in your bag
that should be a free agent to do what you
want to the people out there listening and the juniors
(25:58):
coming through, don't so with a putter. Just use the
best product out there. Sign with third end clubs because
of the putter. As I say to my kids and
my juniors coming through, is that if you want to
buy that one hundred million dollar yacht, three hundred million
dollar yacht, if you want to go give millions to charity,
if you want houses all over the world's holiday destinations,
(26:20):
if you want to change the world in some way,
if you want to run for president one day eventually
with your influence in the game of golf. And that's
whole a part because Putting is the key to all
your heart's desires. That's the only club that's going to
basically give you all the success, all the records, all
the majors, everything else. One man did this for well,
(26:43):
two men have done it, actually, Nicholas and Tiger. You know,
people will say, if your life depends on it, who
are the two guys or one guy that's going to be,
you know, holding that part if your life depends on it,
and it's going to be Jack or Tiger. The two
people that basically have re written the record books over
two generations are the two people that basically just whole
(27:04):
puts for fun. So my advice would be to those
up and comers out there, or even for any of
these guys that are out there now. Adam Scott he
tore up his titles contract basically for other reasons, I'm
sure probably, but you know what, it's freed him up
with the one with the one thing, with the one
part of the game that basically has always struggled with,
(27:25):
you know, putting, And you look at his Adam Scott's
putting stats unbelievable. I think he led maybe a couple
of categories. And I've always said you look at any
stat you get inside the top thirty of the world's
best players on any tour. If you're inside that top
thirty on any stat then you're elite. Top thirty is elite.
So cracking twenty seventh you see twenty seventh on a
stat or twenty fourth, not even number one, very very
(27:47):
fine line between thirtieth and first, but you get thirtieth,
top thirtieth on any start, you're doing something very very well.
But so Scotty and all these guys you know that
have that part of that's freed up for them, free
up your contract, to free up your your putting. You
just might fulfill all your heart's desires. But I'm not
saying it's going to go like that. But hey, yeah,
(28:09):
I just find it crazy how people are locked in
with the parts and you know the complaint of the
car part, but they're stuck in this this contract I
just don't like the part of. But and you go, well,
that's what winning is all about. If you want to
be auted for winning, use something that's going to win, right,
Or if you just want to make top thirty make
a living, then yeah, sign a contract and just you know,
(28:29):
just hate yourself for the rest of your life. It's ridiculous.
It's just the most stupid thing I think I could
you could. In my experience, it's most, yes, most for anything.
And that's the blessing with with Titleist was the fact
that I could use whatever I wanted throughout my career.
So I've got thirteen clubs. The drive is definitely a
(28:50):
have to use it d either, that's a non negotiable
there in the contract. But I think Titleist, Yeah, trust
in the product. You want to use the product, you can,
but if not, use something else. So that's my two cents.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Anyway, I went back through Adam Scott's putting stats in
twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, before he started using lab putters,
he was one hundred and sixty fifth in strokes gained
putting and one hundred and seventy fifth in putting average.
In twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which is when he made
the switch, he jumped to thirty first in strokes gain
(29:25):
putting and was forty third in putting average in twenty
nineteen twenty twenty. He was forty ninth and forty fourth, respectively.
In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, he was eighteenth and
fortieth in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, he
was forty first and thirty fourth. In twenty twenty two
(29:49):
and twenty twenty three he was nineteenth and ninth. And
this year and it's early, he's fiftieth and thirty third.
He's on his sixth street year of using a lab
putter and the sixth consecutive year of never being outside
the top fifty and two critical putting stats. Have you
ever had a conversation with Adam or Lucas about labs,
(30:13):
specifically with Scotty.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yes, yeah, Look, Scotty and I we're very much on
the same page. So yeah, that conversation is just like
speaking to me in a mirror, right from where it goes.
So I used the broomstick a long long time ago
and then he switched to the broomstick. You know, I
talked about how I used it and stuff, and he's like,
you know, the same thing. So Scott is very astute.
(30:37):
So yeah, he thinks about the game, Scotty, you know
as much as you don't. You know, you think he's
very very technically sound, which he is probably doesn't think
too much about the golf swing, but he does about
other areas of the game. So I spent some time
with it with the PGA. We've got on the chip
and green. I'm filling his brains with all these you know,
my thoughts and feels. And we spent about two hours
(30:59):
there is back in maybe eighteen twenty eighteen. I'd cool
them and we go to the driving range and we're
hitting a few balls next to each other. We're just
talking about, you know, stuff as mates do. And I
just asked him about he's ripping these drives down. It
like just just flat plane, just frozen rowe one half
of the other, like twenty thirty in a row. And
I've always like struggled with driving, you know, so he's
(31:20):
struggled with chipping a little bit. But I'm getting very
technical and everything else with the short game and telling how,
you know, how I changed things to manipulate flights and stuff.
And then you know, what do you do with the
driver Scotty, Well, you know, Rabbie is what I thought.
You know what, here we go. I'm going to get
the I'm going to get the holy Grail of secrets
here and I'm on it right So Scotty starts talking about, well,
(31:43):
what I do. I mean, I get my nineties, so
I get my grip right, and then I just really
ensure that nine degrees to my target. You know, I'm
all squared off because he is it so straight. It's
very very important if you get it very straight and
very repetitive something. And yeah, that makes sense, and he
goes the first poot. You know, I'm just trying to
feel as out the face just like remains fairly square
to the golf ball, like it's just like looking at it.
(32:05):
And then after that, I don't know. I can't tell
you what I do, and I just gon't. You're gonna
be kidding me. If you've got to give me more
than that, Scotty, give me something, It's like, nah, just
get my nineties, keep the face square. This is all
I know is that, you know, from this point here,
(32:28):
like I'm very very very aware of this point. Beyond that,
all I know is that I've just got the most
videoed and photographed golf swing probably in the game. But
what I do you're from me? I was devastated. I
was like, oh no, that's not going to work for me.
So oh man, in terms of putting though, he's very
(32:51):
very that's kind of like where it flips, you know's
goal swing. He's got that, you know, locked away, and
then when he gets degree, you know, he's I've always
found that he's he's used part is too heavy, so
with the lab and particularly the long one as well.
You know, you get on greens like Augusta and you
get a part of that's really really heavy. But he
kind of like liked that. But that's why Scotty has
(33:11):
had that really long short stroke kind of thing at
the masses where it's like like reversing a train and
then trying to put it forward. It's like, oh shit,
it takes some time, right, So you kind of like
want to have a bit more of that, you know
that that faster beats for a minute, should I say,
but maintain the same ratio. So, but the other thing
(33:31):
I've ever said to Scotty was this, man, you need
to lighten up this head, just line up the whole thing,
because it's the broomsticks all good and well, but still
you just want to try and create a bit more
more flow with a bit more speed and have that
dynamic of stroke sort of match backstroke to follow through.
But that's the only thing I've ever said to Scotty
in terms of parting and the rest is you don't
say too much to Scotty really, so he's a yeah,
(33:55):
he's a world clock.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Back to Adam Scott, who if You're not caught up,
was prominent part four of this series. Brett Rumford, who
I'm sure sure you know he he pushed back on
Sam and the technology originally sort of tried it and said,
you know that he had some issues with this going back,
you know, early days, and then eventually came back as
(34:19):
they continued to tweak what they were doing. He came
back in and said, you know what, and now I
get it. I'm I'm all in. I've I've bought it,
almost like independently, was having his own kind of relationship
with the putter of the technology, the feel and he
said something to them, which is I finally get it.
(34:40):
You've got to let go of control to gain control.
Does that ring true to you? Is that something that
makes sense to you?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think absolutely it does. I think, you know, I
try and do that with my entire game. But we're
we're so professional in a senseue we think of everything
all the time, we're trying to be so good at
every little part of it, and when it comes to
performing and shooting the lower score, you know, you want
(35:10):
to have all the stuff under control that you've thought
about and then forget it and just execute and just
play and just let go. And that's what I'm trying
to do generally. So I think I think that does
ring true. I probably didn't have the internal fights that
Rummy had in his head with the putter. I was
just like, yeah, this swing's really good. Yeah, this is
(35:30):
getting a consistent role. I don't need to find necessarily
fault with it. How about I just use this thing
and make more putts. And I was enjoying that end
of it. And I've really enjoyed the relationship with Sam
and his team and being able to give him feedback
and then being receptive to that feedback, and in developing
(35:53):
the MEZ and the mes Max and you know, getting
to a place where I feel like I'm putting with
as good a putter as I can cut with. That's
that's been a fun process for me.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think he's very factual Scotty. I don't think he
does anything, you know, on a whim or out of
just you know, there is feel. I think, yeah, Scotty
is very much a feel player, but I think at
the same time he's very factual as well, So he's
very very calculative Scotty. As much as you think he's
very feel orientated, he's still very shoot with his with
his thoughts and his concepts of what he's doing. So
(36:25):
but very definite as well. And when he and the
game is all that confidence, isn't it. You know, So
when you start to back up you know, science technology
with the feel and then the understanding, it's a it's
a very powerful concoction of you know, of positives that's
going to give you that that unequivocal without a doubt.
Just go play. You know everything's locked away. Just go
(36:48):
play now and that's probably the best thing. You know,
you get a bit in the world of what it's
all about, and then just go play. The idea of
golf is just go play. Don't have to worry about
all the all that stuff. You know, and does become feel,
it becomes you know intuitive, just step up, give up
control to take control and just let it go. You know,
that's that's the world where you want to live. Get
(37:09):
sold on the technology. Sure, that's you know, anyone can
sell a putter, but at the end of the day,
you have to you have to live with it, so
and you've got to compete with that technology day and
day out for your livelihood or otherwise or kicking your
ass's mates. So yeah, kicking the butts of your mates
and the rest of it. So and I think that's
what wins people over eventually, is is that at the
(37:32):
end of the day, that's it. The only other thing
is maybe just the loft dynamics that I'm trying. I'm
working hard with Samy on, but I just want.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
To see maybe the options of lofts, maybe because the
putter does sold so well, and maybe having two or
three heads that with varying surfaces, you might be able
to just manipulate the losts without you know, trying to
throw your hands.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Back and forth. But that's about it, and love the
rest it's I think.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
Yeah, him coming here in June, We're hoping was the
beginning of a very beautiful relationship between us, and he's
able to communicate this stuff to people that you know,
who trust him and everything, and it's a beautiful relationship.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah, they said your visits to Oregon and your feedback
and your your your your thoughts in perspective have been
critical to UH to to where they are as a company.
So they give you a lot of credit and uh
and they you know, in the end, I think they've
really appreciated the back and forth and you making the
(38:35):
effort and the trips and yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I'm more I'm more thankful that that Sam reached out
and made the contact, and not to say that he
admitted the wrongings, but it was just cool that he
that he reached out and you know, just yeah, it
got to the bottom of it, and probably just more
just try to clarify what his engineers already saw anyway,
so they're they're already on it. They're already on the
(39:00):
same page. So I certainly want want to take credit
full credit for for what those guys are doing over there,
because it's amazing what they're doing. The factor is incredible,
it's growing every day. But they're prepared from the last
time I was there. They've got some amazing technology. They've
got some amazing machinery in there as well, which is
(39:21):
doing his job. So just an awesome company, awesome family.
At the end of the day when you get to
that first green, it's just all about locking into holding
a part and just the more things that you can
eliminate in the thought process with putting them, the better,
you know, simplify it to just hitting that the best
puts you can. And a classic example was a story
(39:43):
I told at the Cotta Slow Open where I've got
a thirty footer. There's lots of stuff that can happen
in between the impact of that golfer going in the hole,
but at the end of the day, you go, you
just got to give up on that and just put
the best stroke you can on it. And that's what
was really evident. It was just an amazing moment for
me which I went, Okay, I get it. I understand
(40:04):
what Sam's on about a bill and the technology, what
it's all about. So it was just purely just emptied.
It was amazing. It was quite don't want too used
the word it was very spiritual.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
What version, what version do you put with?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, I've I loved the DF three, I've had the prototype,
and now they've just come out with a new DF
which I'm Sam's going to be sending me well right now,
So I think it's in the post, so I can't
wait to get my hands on that because I love
the DF. I love I love it's yeah, I love
its size, and I love it shaft and I love
(40:43):
it's offset as well. So I just love seeing a
lot of the face. There's no shaft wall that's that's
interfering with the with the leading edge. So just it's
just really out there in the open and it's just
good sight lines. I just love it and it just
feels crazy balanced. I've used them all. The link is right.
I'm using the MESSI max at the moment mes max so,
(41:04):
which is awesome as well. So they're all all the
tech is the same. I can I can part with
any any one of them. And I do you know,
play Wednesday comes here. I'm playing once or twice a
week and I just alternated. I mix it up. It's
a good feeling.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
We end this episode fittingly where it all began with
Bill Pressey.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
I just so I talked to Sam yesterday. I sent
him a message and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be
on the fire Pit Collective tomorrow. Is there any you
know messages or you know the coaching, Uh, what's our message?
Speaker 5 (41:46):
And it's just just just do your thing. Am I okay?
All right?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
And I'm like, you sound busy. He's like, yeah, I'm
playing I'm playing golf with the Brent Rumfer right now.
So that was yesterday.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
But I don't know anything else about it. What you
tell me?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Well, apparently he he second guessed the technology. Then eventually
he came back and endorsed the technology he had. He
was like a critic and now he's he's in within
the culture and ultimately came up with the realization that quote,
(42:27):
this is what was told to me. You've got to
let go of control to gain control.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
That's correct, That's cool. I don't I don't know anything
about this. I've been out in the woods for a
couple of days. That's great. Ah, he's such a good dude.
He's one of the good guys.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
He's second guest. He second guest. He had issues with it.
It didn't make sense to him. He's he he got
he went down the rabbit hole, he got in the weeds,
and ultimately, you know, back and forthing with Sam or whatever,
and then ultimately came back with like, hold on, now,
I think you guys got it right now, I'm I'm
(43:12):
in on it now it's I see it, and now
I've realized. I've come to the realization that quote, in
order to have this technology do what it's supposed to do,
in order to have lie Angle Balance perform what it's
supposed to do, which is basically the review, what is
the revealer, it's totally letting go of control in order
(43:34):
to gain control. That's what it articulates, right in a
very simple form. He had to come to it to
himself and ultimately decided that in order to make this work,
you got to let go of control to gain control.
And that was his light bulb moment. And now he's
all in.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
That's so cool. I have to talk to Sam Tomar
or later today or something. I didn't know. This is great.
He's a you know, outside the Raiders thing. You know,
he's a great guy.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Fuck the Raiders. Hey, uh yeah, uh you know, I
mean seriously, lab Putters quote let go of control to
gain control. It's actually it's actually it actually works in
life too, right, Like sometimes you've gotta sometimes you've got
to let go to to gain control.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And I think people let go of their fears the
hardest thing that even though, like it's a fear, you
think it would be easy to let go of, right,
But fear in golf is the hardest thing by far.
The scar tissue in and and the memories that that
that exist in lurking your subconscious somewhere during that backstroke,
(45:01):
they tend to open the door.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
And that is the.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
The fear there's you know what fear comes from, I'll
tell you it comes from missing, right, comes from missing
You know, what you miss is torque and unless you
practice enough, or you've got this innate ability to know
(45:28):
this particular golf club just like a good driver or
like a good wedge that you have, you know it.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
You know what it's gonna do.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
But when you take away the torque, you could take
away the fear and start reprogramming. And then you know,
if you miss putts, it's a misread or or you
made a poor stroke. It wasn't the yips though, the
yips is, there's there's no bigger fear that is.
Speaker 5 (45:56):
I've had that.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
Have you ever had the yips with your driver? I've
had the yips with my driver before. And it's the
same thing. It's it's a it's a fear and and
that's a scary, scary place to be in. I can't
imagine a professional making a living to feed his family
(46:18):
and pay his mortgage and all that stuff playing golf
with the yips.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
That's just insane.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
On the subject of yips, up next, a deep dive
into the Lucas Glover story. You'll hear from Glover, his agent,
one of his best friends, a Navy seal, and several others,
including more from Sam Hun.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Lucas Glover crazy. Is it absolutely nuts?
Speaker 6 (46:48):
I mean, there's there's nothing to say. I mean, it's
just there's there's nothing to say that hasn't been said
in you know that the tens of thousands of words
that have been written about him in the last couple
of weeks, and he deserves every one of them. I've
seen some remarkable turnarounds. I've never seen anything like that.
(47:09):
I've never seen anything like it, and it's so fucking validating.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
get the time
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