November 21, 2023 • 43 mins
Host Bryan Ford is joined by artist and musician Mashonda Tifrere. After the release of her first album produced by Kanye West, Swizz Beatz, and Raphael Saadiq, Mashonda has been featured on and co-written many hits, as she’s worked alongside artists such as Jay-Z, DMX, and more. More recently, Mashonda partnered with Beyoncé’s BeyGOOD and Gucci’s Chime for Change in 2016 to launch Art LeadHER on International Women’s Day. Her mission in launching the organization was to combat gender bias and empower female artists and curators from around the world. Mashonda is also a Penguin Random House author, releasing “Blend: The Secret to Co-Parenting and Creating a Balanced Family,” in 2018.
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Mashonda IG: @mashondatifrere
Bryan Ford IG: @artisanbryan
Don’t forget to check out Art LeadHER at artleadher.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. Each episode, we are
cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia. We're talking about those meals,
those recipes, those flavors, those aromas, those sense that have
(00:20):
comforted and guided our guests to tremendous success, because that's
what food does. It makes us successful, right, keeps us nourished,
makes us happy, it makes us work. Each episode, I'm
creating a recipe from scratch, and I hope that y'all
are at home making these recipes as well. You can
find them on chinaland dot com. I'm Brian Ford, cookbook author,
TV show host. You know, I love doing media. I
(00:41):
love talking to you guys. I love y'all, my listeners,
love my guests. But most importantly, I just like to
cook and bake for people. And today I have someone
extremely special in my kitchen in the flesh renaissance woman,
art curator, mother, singer, songwriter, just overall badass entrepe Mashonda
(01:01):
to Frere. It's a portrait of courage and a change agent.
Please welcome Mashanda to Flaky biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you. That was a great introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, you know, I've been working on making my guests
feel like super amped up. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It works like.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Get like super pumped definitely. How are you? How are you?
You live in San Diego, but you're here in New York.
What brings you to the city.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So I grew up in New York, grew up in Harlem,
but I moved to San Diego in twenty twenty during
the pandemic. I needed a change, I needed nature, I
needed I just needed some new energy. But I'm here
now for a few reasons. I came for you. What
I came for you, Thank you so much for reaching out.
Of course, I also came because my sixteen year old
(01:47):
son wanted to explore modeling. Oh, I'm really great friends
with Donna Karen. She did a fashion show last night
at her space in Greenwich Village. So he had the
opportunity for his first modeling gig to work with the
icon Donna Karen.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh wow, they shot.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
They ended up in Vogue. They did a fashion show.
So it's great. I love to support what he wants
to do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So that's amazing. That's that's actually incredible that he has
the courage to put himself out there like that, because
I look at myself on camera, like, don't look at me.
I couldn't imagine that. But that's amazing. I'm glad. It
sounds like a super fancy situation it was.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I said, you pretty much had like what all models
die for at.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Your first take. So yeah, a blessing.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Wow. Well, we are again ever so grateful for you
to join us. We like to start our conversations off
with this nostalgic meal. And you know, we talk about
nostalgia a lot in this show because as someone who
likes to watch people eat, it's not about what food
tastes like per se. For me, it's where is it
taking you?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a transport, right, it takes you back in time.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Well that's what I'm hopefully going to accomplish today. But
if my listeners don't know, why don't you tell us
or tell them? What is the nostalgic meal that you
had me prepared today?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So so the meal is so basic, but it was
filled with so much love. Pewa bread, toasted pewa bread
with tomato soup.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wait, is it a grilled cheese, yes, okay, good, just
making sure.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Cheese melted in the pewa bread. And then my grandmother
used to put a little bit of Swiss cheese in
the tomato soup so it would be all melty.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
When I, oh, we got to get someone to go
get some Swiss cheese, get a little cheese.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, she just knew how to do it, you know,
the toast the pewabread be all toasted with the cheese
melted all perfectly and crispy on the outside. And then
she'd make the tomato soup and put a couple of
chunks of Swiss cheese in there, so like when you
pick the spoon up, you get over.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh okay, all right, No, I got you on that.
When was the first time you had, like, what is
your first memory of this? When was the first time
you really remember cherishing this meal?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So it all started because I went to school in
Harlem at the time on one hundred and thirty ninth
Street between Lennox and Fifth Avenue. And she worked at
the time for a woman who ultimately became my godmother.
She had a brown stone on sixty second Street between
second and third. She was a wealthy woman and she
(04:36):
did housekeeping for her, so, you know the contrast of
traveling from Harlem to the Upper East Side where all
the wealthy people lived, was like wild for me as
a child, but it was it gave me an opportunity
to realize, Okay, there's so much more to life than
what's happening where I live in pretty much stood. You know,
(04:59):
Harlem at that time was there was poverty, you know,
and a lot of people struggled. A lot of people
survived by way of whatever they can get to eat
from the government. So moving downtown as a kid and
seeing the transition of lifestyles and culture was really inspiring
(05:19):
to me. So she taught me how to get on
the train. So I was one of those kids that
would leave school in sixth grade, get on the train,
go to meet her at work. So I wasn't stuck
at home alone for hours. And it worked out because
she was doing housekeeping, so I would come over.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
She'd let me in. The kitchen was gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
My godmother had like these beautiful copper pans, like I
just remember all these amazing cookbooks and cutlery and stuff.
And I'd walk into this fabulous kitchen and my grandmother
would have like she'd go to Dagostino's right around the corner,
which is like one of the fancier supermarkets in New.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
York City at the time, and she'd.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Pick cup, the Fresh Peta and Campbells. It was Campbell's
tomato soup, which at the time we didn't know what
it was filled with. But it wasn't the best ingredient,
but it was still great.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
She'd have it.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Ready for me, you know, hot tomato soup pewter bread
with Swiss cheese, and it was just.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Wow, was it? Was it Swiss cheese in the pew
bread too, Yes, so all Swiss.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It was all Swiss.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Can we get can we text my sister's upstairs cheese?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I love cheese, but it was Swiss cheese. And that
was my introduction to Swiss cheese because I never even
knew what it was. But my godmother always had all
these fancy cheeses.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, my mouth water.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, what I got you on the fresh beautiful? Yeah,
I got you on the fresh Peeda. So it's interesting
you bring up campbell soup, though, I mean, I think
it'd be hard to find someone that grew up in
this country that doesn't have some form of memory with
the Campbell's exactly tomato soup for sure, but even you know,
Bridget likes cream of celery soup. I don't know, I
(07:09):
don't I've never even heard of it before, but she's
like obsessed with the Campbell's. It's one of those brands
that whether you agree with the ingredients, serve right, we
just had it. It's just a staple.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It was there, it was in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So this idea of like the grilled cheese and the
tomato soup, it kind of originated during like World War Two, right.
I mean, there's there's really amazing history behind how just
from an economical perspective, people were seeking out like what's quick,
what can nourish a grilled cheese sandwhich was one of
those things that's like hey, cheese bread, boom, let's eat it.
(07:46):
But it's like, oh, let's we need to make this
meal healthy. Let's combine it with something like tomatoes. You know,
there's like vitamins in it. Right, So I think that
combination kind of occurred out of necessity. And when I
think about eating like a canned super a can for me,
it was actually my dad would get you know, my
dad would get chunky What was it called? Man? Was
it called chunky soup? I think I remember chunky chunky? God, yeah,
(08:10):
beef stew one.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Had all these little potato chunks.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And you know what I liked about chunky soup is
that the can was like bigger than other cans. It
was you know when you see that chunky soup can,
he was like today. Yeah. So I mean, it's just
it's just so fun to think about as I get older,
those moments make me smile. Think about it's not about
(08:33):
the nutrition here, It's about.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yours when you're a kid, especially right, just like that's
that red.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
And white can.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's about to go down, you know, you know it's
wild is as an art collector. When I grew up,
I acquired an Andy Warhol Campbell soup. It was a
study and I had it in my dining room, and
every time I looked at it, I was just like, Wow,
(09:00):
who would have ever thought?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Where is it now?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I auctioned it because when I moved to San Diego,
I wanted to get rid of all of the art
that I acquired during my marriage. So I wanted to
start this new life, this new energy. So I didn't
want to take any art that we acquired together, so
I auctioned off my Andy Warhol. I auctioned off my
Keith Harring. There were a few pieces that I was like, Okay,
(09:25):
I'm going to just sell these, use the money and
buy some living black artists.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's interesting because you're
talking about energy. It's interesting buying from living black artists.
That's putting good energy into it. Yes, that's the kind
of energy we need.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Absolutely, absolutely, So that was the goal and that turned
out really well.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I could imagine, Yeah, imagine.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It was a nice fresh start.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It's good, it's a good time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Is some art.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But no, what you're saying about the tomato soup. I
remember growing up and seeing like combos of half soup,
half sandwich, and I was like, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That's a thing.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I had no idea that what my grandmother was doing for.
She didn't know either, because she's like this little West
Indian lady. You know, she's just giving me what what's
around the place, right, I had no idea that the
soup and sandwich combo was a thing until I grew up.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, you were at you're at like a Panera bread
and you saw.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
The super sandwich, Like, wait a second, and I've been doing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That soup and sandwich. I don't typically go for a
soup and sandwich combo. And the reason is because they
only give you half a sandwich, and unfortunately, on the
time I need my.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Hole, you need a whole ass sandwich.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And then by the time I eat that, then I
just look at the soup and I'm like, well, I'll
save it for later, goes to the fridge, right right,
all right, So here's what I did. I'm going to
prepare this for you shortly, but I'm gonna explain to
you the process here. And my listeners love to hear
the recipe because they're gonna go home and they're gonna
make it and the post about it. I of course
made the pewa from scratch. I used some fresh whole
(11:08):
wheat flour that I get from a local mill around here,
so it's it's high quality flour that you got a
little sweet sour dough starter in it, which actually it's
a sour dough starter with coconut milk, believe it or not.
I added a little bit of yeast, some olive oil,
sugar water, of course, I let the dough rest for
(11:31):
a few hours, I divided it, and then I baked
it in this oven that I've got. Actually, it bakes
out a very high heat. So in order for that
peet it's a pop, like that familiar pop, you know,
so that you got that pocket in the middle, you
need that high heat. So I baked it at high heat,
pretty quick bake actually, and they came out. I mean,
I gotta say it came out quite nice. I'm pretty
(11:51):
And so for the soup, obviously, one would think, let
me just go get some campbells. I did not. Actually no,
I've actually never made tomato soup before in my life.
But I kind of got a headstart because the other
day my little sister she was randomly just like, I
(12:14):
want to make tomato soup from scratch. This is like
last week. And she's like, do you know how to
do it? And I was like, uh not really, So
I started looking it up for her and in my
brain got an idea of what recipes, but then like
I don't know what, it just fell through and we
never made it. I told her, I was like, hey,
go get these ingredients. She never got them. So that's
on her if she wanted. Now, I'm just kidding. So
(12:37):
I had an idea of what to do. Roast a
bunch of tomatoes first and foremost, you know, I got
got some nice tomatoes I got from the market, cherry
and vine tomatoes. Yeah, the beautiful the ones with that
nice deep red color, you know, the hot house or
the beef steak, like you know that's good for sandwich.
But to roast and draw those sugars out, I got
the smaller, juicier red ones. I roasted those on a
(12:59):
sheet train with garlic, with onion, with a bunch of
olive oil, salt and pepper, okay, and I popped in
the oven for about an hour and just like really
let them caramelize. I then got some whole peeled Italian
style plum tomatoes. These are can tomatoes, but they're when
you get good quality tomatoes that are canned, like it's
really great for like a pizza or pasta. I happen
(13:21):
to have like a quart container of these fresh crushed
plum to me, So I added that into the tomato
mixture when it got out of the oven, and so
on the stove. I'm giving you the breakdown here we
gotta come for a full breakdown. So on the stove,
in the Dutch oven over there, I put a bunch
of butter in there, and measures butter, and then I
added flour to actually kind of make a little root
(13:44):
all right, to get it kind of thick. Then I
added all the tomatoes, onions, garlic, all the roasted tomatoes
and your garlic, and I just mixed it up. And
then I added chicken broth, chicken stock. You're not vegan
or anything. Oh shit, okay, that's fucking I gotta go
get the campbels. I imagine that I had to go
get the candles and the Swiss cheese. Now I just
(14:06):
like added the chicken broth. Let that simmer, let those
flavors marinate, and then I puraate it. So then now
we're talking about the onions and the garlic distributing their
flavors like even into it. Popped it back on the stove,
and it's been simmering. Hopefully it's gotten a little bit
thicker than it was. And that's that. And so obviously,
(14:27):
you know, I hope this is it. Obviously it was.
I didn't get Swiss, you know, but I got cheddar
An American. I am a big fan of American cheese,
the way it melts classic. You hate American cheese? A fan?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I do like Cheddar, So I won't.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Use the America. My instincts as soon as you're like,
hmm okay, I'm like, as soon as people.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Say American, I think of the plastic wrapper.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah yeah, that's it right there, but I won't use it. Yeah,
you're like, I sold a Warhol. I'm not eating No.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I love Cheddar.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You love Cheddar. We're gonna go with Cheddar. So I'm
gonna get up.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm going to the American on I want to taste
your idea.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You know. I'll make myself one with American cut it
in yeah, five minutes, stay flaky, we'll be right back.
Welcome back to Flaky biscuit.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Whoa, oh god, Okay, I'm going to get my calcium
this morning.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I need to just split that one.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay, let's just split that one, you know, the American.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay, to the listeners, I'm using two different types of
cheese here, right, so they have different melting points. All right,
So what I saw the cheddar oozing out the sides.
I was like, listen, there's a chance that the mozzarella's
probably melted as well. Cut it a little thick and
it wasn't, so I popped it back on the stove
just now, put the lid on it to let that
steam kind of help give it the melt. All right,
(16:18):
I'm about to get up real quick and get the
soundch you know, I apologize for the delay, although I'm
sure that will just be edited out a TV. And
there you go, and it's time to dig in. I
can't wait for you to try this, to have this,
and I want to know specifics. I want to know
what you taste. I want to know how you know
(16:39):
how the mouthfield, how's the pita?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Definitely the soup is on point.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
What are you tasting?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So there's this familiar taste in the soup I'm trying
to figure out it's like that perfect amount of tang
that you get from the tomato, but then also like
the sweet right m h And I definitely taste the garlic,
which is amazing, beautiful mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
The texture is great.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm looking at your eyes as you eat, and I believe.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
You, Oh, I would never lie to you about that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm believing your facial expression, right.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Now it's bomb and you know what I love about
it because it's not canned soup. Of course, all the
different tomatoes, the different textures are the tomatoes.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, three different tomatoes here.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Mm hmm. All right, I'm gonna do the pita.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I love this calm, relaxing. Like the way you're talking
about this, it is just like it's a very like I'm.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Just zen for my own good sometime. Okay, but I'm excited.
Don't let the zen make you think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Y'all. Hear it out. Y'all heard a crunch. That is
the crunch we go for. Okay, I'm gonna take a Okay,
listen to this.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm biting in for the first time.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Y'all. Wow, it is so good.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The bread is so good.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That might have been the most like sensual bite ever
taken on flake. Yeah, it's good. We love that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This is some sexiest food. M hm hmmm mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I like to do like something like this where I
spooned the soup onto the top of it and then
let it run down. Mm hmm. I gotta say I
have peta grilled cheese. I mean, obviously, I'm sure there's
like a bunch of recipes for that online or something,
but I've never heard of that. Or typically, you know,
peta it's a Middle Eastern bread. It's one of the
(19:00):
first breads. This was one of the first breads, right,
And typically you know in different cultures like Greek culture
or Turkish culture, it's filled with different things, you know,
different meats, different vegetables. But never once in my life
have I really thought like, oh, let me make a
grilled cheese with it.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I mean, it's authentic, it's my grandmother's, my baby's on
her way from school. Let me get this thing together
for her.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Why pea bread? Do you know why she used.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To eat bread? It was her bread she would share
with me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So her favorite bread was pewa bread.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Because she didn't like thick bread. She liked bread that
she could put in the toaster and it would get crunchy.
She liked crunchy bread, right, So Peter was her choice.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Lots of sensual bites over it. Although I suspect you're
disappointed that the cheese I added didn't melt and swirl up,
because that was part of.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
No, no, no, it's fine. It's just a lot of cheese,
and I'm not trying to do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Too much too much cheese, all right, So clearly you
enjoyed you all but cleaned this plate here. You destroyed
that sandwich. The crunch was on point point. I want
to know. Was I able to bring you back with
this meal? Was I able to bring you back to
your grandmother's kitchen?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That is what I'm talking And that's what we can
leave this right here on the table. We can we
can just kind of snack on it, pull it apart, y'all.
Make sure y'all check out this recipe on shondaland dot com.
This is a super fire, whole grain naturally lovingpeta. Love
to see y'all post about it. Make some soup. You
(20:48):
know what I'm saying is you tag us with some
sensual bites. Give us your best sensual bite. Record it.
We want to, We want we want to. We want
to see who can make the most sensual bite of
all time.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And I said I was finished, but I'm still trying
to get all this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
This might be one of my favorite recipes I've made.
I think it comes from the fact that I've never
made a tomato soup before.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You're proud of yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
It should be we had the proofs effect here, the
nostalgic moment. But I want to know a little bit
more about you. I want to know how this meal
has kind of helped shape this phenomenal career that you've had.
You're a very multi talented and creative person. When did
you first realize that you wanted to pursue a career
in arts? Was it music first?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Or yeah, music was first.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I started music professionally when I was eighteen years old.
Before that, I was like a studio rat. I would
leave school and just go to the studio and record
and write. But I got my first big publishing deal
when I was nineteen at Water Chapel Music Publishing in
the City. It gave me a fifty thousand dollars check
to write songs.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I was a kid. I was excited, I was motivated.
So that was the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Beginning of my journey as a professional musician. When I
got that money, I started collecting art. So I knew
right away that I wanted to collect because my godmother,
the same one that had the beautiful kitchen, she was
also a collector. So I grew up around like original
picassos and mirros and really beautiful art. Back then, I
(22:23):
didn't know the value, I didn't know what it meant,
but I saw it, so it became a part of me.
And my uncle was also a painter, So I grew
up in a home where I could smell acrylics and
there were canvases and paint brushes all over the place.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You know, it's interesting how you said smell acrylics.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Oh yeah, I remember going to sleep like, oh my god,
I can't get this smell out my notes, you know,
like paint. Those were just the things that brought me
into that world. But then, growing up as a young
black girl in Harlem, there wasn't much access to art
programs or museums or even galleries. So I didn't know
(23:00):
anything about that world until I got older. And when
I did and I started making money, I knew what
I wanted to collect. I knew what I wanted my
home to feel like. So I started on that journey.
But then as I grew older and had explored the
art industry as a collector, I realized that there weren't
(23:22):
many women artists being shown, there weren't many black artists
being shown, and so I started my company art Leader
in twenty sixteen, which focuses on women artists and black artists.
So since then, I've been exhibiting all over the world,
curating shows for galleries institutions, and also doing my own
(23:47):
independent curations and exhibitions. And to date I've shown i'd say,
over two hundred eighty to three hundred artists all over
the world.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So, you know, my grandmother, everything that's good about me,
I give credit to her for it. She was very calm,
very peaceful, very grounded, and I've just picked up on
that energy.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's great. I mean, it's it radiot, Like I can
feel that energy through the way you talk about art,
or through the way you talk about your journey and
even talking about you know, growing growing up in Harlem,
like you said, and there was poverty, but like you're
very much like you know, this is the foundation that
helped you build into a worldwide arting. You went to Christie's, right,
(24:35):
how did you feel that impacted your growth? I mean,
is that like kind of equivalent to a culinary school, right?
I mean it's like definitely, you know, and just there's
some cooks that like, oh I like culinary school, some don't.
Some say it's worth it. Some don't, so, like, what's
the take on art school? You know?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I do feel like as creative people, we innately have
this thing, right, you know what we want to do.
We can see it before it's done. As a chef,
you knew you wanted to make this, but you already
probably had an idea of what it would taste like
before you even tasted it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Right, Yes, I am the same.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I know what a wall is going to look like
with the art hung before I hang it. So when
we have that gift, I think it's only right to
then couple it with some sort of academic right, some
sort of schooling, some sort of exposure to other people
(25:34):
that do the same thing, so that we can then
elevate that gift, you know, make it more I guess
universal in a way. So Christie's was a choice I
made because I wanted to learn the language. I didn't
have the language. I knew how to create, but I
didn't have the language that's out there in the world
in the industry, you know, And same thing with you, Like,
(25:56):
you know what you want to create, you can create it,
but a little bit of schooling or a little bit
of watching a YouTube, video or education is only going
to enhance it.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's true. I mean there's I don't think anyone could
ever deny that, right.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I mean, it's just facts.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's like you got to put your ego to the
side and just come to terms with the fact that
you need some sort of education on whatever it is
you're passionate about.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
You have to have education to enhance creativity. And said,
I mean, I'm essentially a self taught baker, but I
will say the foundation to my professional technique comes from
a bakery I worked at. And just like repetition being
with other bakers who have done this for years, I
remember vividly this baker named Oscar So. I worked at
(26:42):
Sullivan Street Bakery in Miami, but this guy came down
from New York to like help the Miami bakery, and
I just remember this moment. As a chibata bread. It
is a very popular Italian bread, and each small chibata
weighs supposed to one hundred and sixty grams. So you know,
we've got mountains of dough, right, and everyone stands around
(27:03):
and we all divide it, weigh it, get it onto
the boards. You know, we're dividing. We're weighing. Sometimes it's
too big. We got to chop it off. This guy
did about one hundred of these with no scale, so
he would he divided them. Ask them to me. I
scaled them. I will not joke with you. It's one
hundred and sixty rams every single time. That was one
of the moments. And he was from hopefully Oscar if
(27:24):
you ran listens to But that was a moment. I
was like, man, this what an inspiration for me. So
I might have creative energy, I might have talent, I
might be cool on social media, but a real role
model is seeing the hands of another Latino in a
bakery executing flawlessly over and over again. I was like,
(27:45):
I gotta step my game up right. That just helped
me propel my skill set. It helped me pay more
attention to details. So you know, that's a way to learn.
Just like schooling or just like watching videos, it always
comes down to that foundation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
How are you cultivating your craft? You know, if you
can't answer that question, it's like you got to maybe
you should look look inside and be like, what can
I do to You can never you can never be
the best, right firm.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
There's always going to be someone better than you. You
have to be okay with that. But it's okay to
learn from that person. Okay to listen to what that
person has to say, and just know that you're doing
the best.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That you can do.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Correct, you know, correct, You know, these industries are fickle.
You know, I don't know what the the culinary industry
is like, but I'm sure it's it's an art form
and you know, I'm sure super competitive. So you got
to stay on your p's and q's and you know,
just just figure out the next thing, the next way
(28:44):
to make yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, innovation, Right, What is your process as a creative?
Like how do you get in the zone when you
want to create? What are the key components? Like, let's
just say you wake up and you feel like it's
a day where you know you want to make these
advancements as a creative person, like you know, art a
new project or like what is that like in the
art world?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well, I think that, like with any other form of art,
it starts with self. You know, you don't worry about
the world or the industry. You really have to sit
down and formulate something in your mind. I usually will
write it out. I'm big on creating proposals for myself
so that I can see it like vision boards, Okay,
(29:26):
And that's what I do primarily in San Diego. I
create things in my mind a lot and prepare them
for the world, which I consider New York in LA.
You know. I get the foundation done in San Diego
in the middle of the nature and where no one
is around, right, and then I make the phone calls,
I make the emails, and then I'll travel to execute.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, and it makes perfect sense because you're not
existing in the frantic energy. You're keeping yourself. And I
think it's funny because I'm in the frantic energy right now.
You can't tell I'm, you know, trying to open up Manhattan.
You've put yourself in a position where your baseline energy
in San Diego is very tranquil. It's funny how you
said that you go to New York and LA to execute.
(30:10):
I love how you said that, because you really can't
describe it any better. I mean, that's why I moved here.
It's like to execute. I'm like exactly, you know, I
try to do a bakery in Miami or New Orleans
and It's like, was that for me? It's like, now
I'm gonna go to New York to execute best place. Yeah,
execute almost anything since you've started this mission, right, Like,
how have you seen the representation with black artists change?
(30:32):
Has there been a noticeable change? Is it gradual? Do
you feel like you've been part of that change?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Absolutely a part of it. It's been explosive.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think twenty twenty to now has created so many opportunities,
new platforms, new whole new design for black creatives, black artists.
You know, a lot of the big companies and brands,
their main goal was to create platforms for black artists
to shine. As gimmicky and trendy as it may sound,
(31:05):
it would still an opportunity for us to get out
there and do what we needed to do to then
keep that same energy moving forward. So you got to
keep doing things like this and you know, connecting and
networking and uplifting one another.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Meeting of the minds, you know, no matter the industry
or no matter the skill set. Because some of the
challenges that I faced are no different. I mean they
are different because I'm a man, I have to say that,
but just being a person of color, it always just
sets you back a little bit when you're trying to
find a ceiling or like trying to find, you know,
even a mentor or something like that. So it's like, well,
(31:44):
first of all, I need to find someone that looks
like me, you know, because I'll know that they have
what it takes to navigate those rough waters. And of
course I've got mentors or people I look up to
who might be wider a Korean or something like that,
and that's still very badvaluable, but finding people that really
look like you and like they like to eat what
(32:04):
you like to eat, they like to eat. If we
don't do this, then it's almost like we're keeping doors
like closed. But when we open these doors and welcome
each other in and we kind of cross paths and
just say hey, like you know, it might just it
might be pita bread or it might be an exhibit,
but we're we got to get on.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I mean, think of how many thousands of people are
now going to know you because of me and vice versa,
you know, and that's the ongoing work that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Absolutely, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this.
Enough of that, enough of that, back to the interview.
(32:57):
A lot of listeners here might be food forward listeners,
and so they might be, like me, a little bit
of novice when it comes to approaching visual arts. Do
you have and I was, I was, literally was it
last night talking with Ari Literally on the couch with
my sister last night. We were talking about art and
I was listening to some I was listening to some
funk or some Brazilian music or some Cumbia or something,
(33:20):
and I was like, my body reacts to music as
art stronger than it does for visual art, Like I
don't understand how to interpret a lot of visual art.
Does that make sense? And so I feel like that
might be common. Do you have any tips on how
to approach you know, a painting.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
You know, art is not going to appeal to everybody
the same way, and that's okay. Visual art is a
very distinct thing. I feel like you've had to have
come from an upbringing where you grew up around artists
or collectors or there were paintings in your home you
(34:00):
to appreciate that as an adult. I honestly don't know
many people like yourself that have said, oh, I don't
know how to look at art because I have a
good community of people that are, you know, like minded
as far as looking at art. It's also my profession,
so I have to. But I've spoken to many people
(34:24):
that just don't know how to immerse themselves right into
an exhibition or a painting. You look at it for
a little while and you're like, what am I looking at?
And I understand that because I've looked at paintings sometimes
and I'm like, Okay, I'm bored. You know, I can't
look at this anymore. I think that for people like
you that are trying to understand that, you just have
(34:45):
to connect with the artists that resonate with your lifestyle
and your background. So I will send you I will
make a point to send you a list of shows
that are up right now in New York with artists
that I think you should check out that I think
would you know, open you up to that? Okay, because
(35:07):
let me tell you, when you connect those dots of
like you just asked me a question about how does
this food make me feel? Right, when you stand in
front of a painting that makes you feel something that
makes you remember something about your family or your childhood,
you could stand there for like hours and just weep cry,
(35:27):
Like if you're looking at the right thing, it really
gets into you.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So it's possible.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I remember the first time I stood in front of
a painting and cried. It doesn't happen often, but I
do remember the first time it happened, and I was like,
oh my God, like I just felt it all over
my body.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Would you be willing to share details?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It was at the Whitney Museum in the city. I
think I was so caught up I forgot the painter's name,
but I just stood there. It just reminded me of
It was a moment I remembered as a child in
her Harlem, and the whole setting, and the way the
people were moving, and the eyes, like the look into
the eyes of the paintings. The eyes usually help you
(36:10):
feel something.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I'm about to just go to a guy. I'm I
want to experience that. Wow, what's next? What's next for you?
What is the big?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh, the big big thing? Right now?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I'm gonna I'm working on a book right now, and
I plan on really shutting everything off and really you know,
completing it. You know, it's a novel, so it requires
a lot of imagination and thinking, so I just want
to get off of Instagram. I want to shut down
(36:46):
and just be like a weird writer.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
That is honestly amazing to hear that you're taking those
steps because I can totally relate. My cookbook is now
coming out next year instead of in October because I'm
a little behind on it and you want to stay
perfect it is, Okay, I do want it to be
the idea of perfect. We have a couple more things
here at Flaky Biscuit. It's not all just about nostalgia
(37:11):
and the comforting feelings of art forms. All about having
a little bit fun too. Okay, we're gonna have a
little fun. We're gonna play our flaky game. Oh boy, yeah,
it's it's I love the reaction. Oh boy, fear not,
fear not. It's a few fun multiple choice questions. Okay,
we will start with a simple one. I think what
(37:34):
company made its first can of ready to eat tomato
soup in eighteen ninety five? Was it Adidas? Was it Craft?
Was it Campbell's or was it Kellogg's Samples? Yes? Yeah,
so did it feel like a trick question? Really?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Not really?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Okay, okay, good, good, good good. So we're talking about
tomato soup. Where were tomatoes for documented to have been
cultivated and by whom? All right, I have three choices
for you. Was it by Australians? Was it by Aztecs
and Incas in meso America? Or was it here an
Astoria queens.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I know it's not Italy. I read that somewhere, so
I knew you wasn't going to say.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
That it's not Italy. Think about how did it get
to Italy?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Say the first two again.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Australia or Aztecs and Incas in meso America.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Because it's such a contrast.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Of I'd say Australia.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No, no, no, not Australia. I failed you Astec and Incas. Yeah,
tomatoes are indigenous to the Americas. And the way it
even got to Italy was colonists came here, did their
colonizer thing, fucked everything up, and they were like, oh
those are cool, let's bring them back, and they brought
them tomatoes back over there, and that's when tomatoes started
(39:01):
to get cultivated in Europe. Everyone seems to think tomatoes
are Italian. I think that's oh yeah, well you know what, Honestly,
I feel like you kind of answered the question right
by knowing it's not Italy. Right, all right? Last one
for you. We kind of touched on this earlier. What
country makes cold tomato soup known as gaspacho? And do
you agree that tomato soup can be served cold? I
think we already got your answer to that. But is
(39:23):
it Spain, Thailand or Brazil?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
A spacho is Spain?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
It is Spain, ding ding ding, And do you agree
that tomato.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Soup it is?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I'm awful.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Have you ever had the little tomato ice creamy things?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
You know? It is? I don't play with coltivated if
it's like a salad, and I'll play with the cold tomato.
We appreciate you playing the flaky game, and we do
want to just talk briefly about, you know, kind of
what led to the foundation of art leader, you know,
and like the most important part of being successful is like, yeah,
we can take our nice trips and you know, again
(40:00):
the nice shoes or whatever it is that we do,
but like what are we doing with that to uplift
and like, obviously you're doing a lot, So I would
love to hear a little bit about art Leader and
how my listeners and myself can help.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, I think the work that I do it's like
pay forward work. The work that I've done with art
Leader is one hundred percent dedicated to helping artists. I
scout emerging artists, artists that really have never shown before.
They're new into the art world. They need opportunities, they
(40:33):
need a platform, and I create those platforms for them.
And a lot of people don't want to do that
because there's no immediate glory in that. There's no real
like you don't get to stand next to someone that's
famous and take a photo and post it and get
a million likes. When you do that kind of work,
you know, you're literally working with people that have never
(40:57):
been seen before, never been heard of, and you're taking
a chance on them. I love seeing the underdog when
I do the kind of work that I wish someone
would have done for me right when I was coming up.
So I think the best way to support art Leader
and the artists is to just follow art Leader on
(41:19):
Instagram and stay in tune with the exhibitions and the
curations and the artists that we post, and follow them
and follow their journeys.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, couldn't have said it better. Support, support, right, foundation,
pushing up, building up. I think it's really important if
you're living in a city where something's happening. By art Leader,
get out there and show some love. Get out there
and show some support so that you can weep some
tears or feel a certain way.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, connect.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
You can also learn more at art leader dot com.
Correct Shanda, I really really, really really thank you for
coming today.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So thankful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The food was amazing, the energy was amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
To see what you do next, Yeah, yeah, you will say, okay,
all right, thank you bang all right, y'all, thank you
so much for listening today. And you can find the
tomato soup and Peter bread recipe on Shondaland dot com.
I want to know how it goes for y'all. Tag
me at artists and Brian and of course tag Mashanda
(42:23):
Tifrere that's at m A S h O N d
A t I F R E r E, post photos videos.
You know what I'm saying. Let's get in the discord
and talk about the recipe. I want to know all
the details. As usual, ask me your questions as they
arise and don't forget to check out art Leader at
(42:44):
art leader dot com. That's a R T L E
A d h E R dot com. You can find
my handle and all the links I mentioned in the
show notes for this episode. If you like Flaky Biscuit,
rate it, review it five stars, ten stars. All right,
this is the best food podcast ever exists. Make sure
that you let everyone know that Flaky Biscuit is executive
(43:07):
produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang,
and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer is Bridget Kenna and
our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder, with music by Crucial.
Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be found each week on
shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for
more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit is a production of
(43:32):
Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. Each episode, we are
cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia. We're talking about those meals,
those recipes, those flavors, those aromas, those sense that have
(00:20):
comforted and guided our guests to tremendous success, because that's
what food does. It makes us successful, right, keeps us nourished,
makes us happy, it makes us work. Each episode, I'm
creating a recipe from scratch, and I hope that y'all
are at home making these recipes as well. You can
find them on chinaland dot com. I'm Brian Ford, cookbook author,
TV show host. You know, I love doing media. I
(00:41):
love talking to you guys. I love y'all, my listeners,
love my guests. But most importantly, I just like to
cook and bake for people. And today I have someone
extremely special in my kitchen in the flesh renaissance woman,
art curator, mother, singer, songwriter, just overall badass entrepe Mashonda
(01:01):
to Frere. It's a portrait of courage and a change agent.
Please welcome Mashanda to Flaky biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you. That was a great introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, you know, I've been working on making my guests
feel like super amped up. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It works like.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Get like super pumped definitely. How are you? How are you?
You live in San Diego, but you're here in New York.
What brings you to the city.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So I grew up in New York, grew up in Harlem,
but I moved to San Diego in twenty twenty during
the pandemic. I needed a change, I needed nature, I
needed I just needed some new energy. But I'm here
now for a few reasons. I came for you. What
I came for you, Thank you so much for reaching out.
Of course, I also came because my sixteen year old
(01:47):
son wanted to explore modeling. Oh, I'm really great friends
with Donna Karen. She did a fashion show last night
at her space in Greenwich Village. So he had the
opportunity for his first modeling gig to work with the
icon Donna Karen.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh wow, they shot.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
They ended up in Vogue. They did a fashion show.
So it's great. I love to support what he wants
to do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So that's amazing. That's that's actually incredible that he has
the courage to put himself out there like that, because
I look at myself on camera, like, don't look at me.
I couldn't imagine that. But that's amazing. I'm glad. It
sounds like a super fancy situation it was.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I said, you pretty much had like what all models
die for at.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Your first take. So yeah, a blessing.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Wow. Well, we are again ever so grateful for you
to join us. We like to start our conversations off
with this nostalgic meal. And you know, we talk about
nostalgia a lot in this show because as someone who
likes to watch people eat, it's not about what food
tastes like per se. For me, it's where is it
taking you?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a transport, right, it takes you back in time.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Well that's what I'm hopefully going to accomplish today. But
if my listeners don't know, why don't you tell us
or tell them? What is the nostalgic meal that you
had me prepared today?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So so the meal is so basic, but it was
filled with so much love. Pewa bread, toasted pewa bread
with tomato soup.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wait, is it a grilled cheese, yes, okay, good, just
making sure.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Cheese melted in the pewa bread. And then my grandmother
used to put a little bit of Swiss cheese in
the tomato soup so it would be all melty.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
When I, oh, we got to get someone to go
get some Swiss cheese, get a little cheese.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, she just knew how to do it, you know,
the toast the pewabread be all toasted with the cheese
melted all perfectly and crispy on the outside. And then
she'd make the tomato soup and put a couple of
chunks of Swiss cheese in there, so like when you
pick the spoon up, you get over.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh okay, all right, No, I got you on that.
When was the first time you had, like, what is
your first memory of this? When was the first time
you really remember cherishing this meal?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So it all started because I went to school in
Harlem at the time on one hundred and thirty ninth
Street between Lennox and Fifth Avenue. And she worked at
the time for a woman who ultimately became my godmother.
She had a brown stone on sixty second Street between
second and third. She was a wealthy woman and she
(04:36):
did housekeeping for her, so, you know the contrast of
traveling from Harlem to the Upper East Side where all
the wealthy people lived, was like wild for me as
a child, but it was it gave me an opportunity
to realize, Okay, there's so much more to life than
what's happening where I live in pretty much stood. You know,
(04:59):
Harlem at that time was there was poverty, you know,
and a lot of people struggled. A lot of people
survived by way of whatever they can get to eat
from the government. So moving downtown as a kid and
seeing the transition of lifestyles and culture was really inspiring
(05:19):
to me. So she taught me how to get on
the train. So I was one of those kids that
would leave school in sixth grade, get on the train,
go to meet her at work. So I wasn't stuck
at home alone for hours. And it worked out because
she was doing housekeeping, so I would come over.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
She'd let me in. The kitchen was gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
My godmother had like these beautiful copper pans, like I
just remember all these amazing cookbooks and cutlery and stuff.
And I'd walk into this fabulous kitchen and my grandmother
would have like she'd go to Dagostino's right around the corner,
which is like one of the fancier supermarkets in New.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
York City at the time, and she'd.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Pick cup, the Fresh Peta and Campbells. It was Campbell's
tomato soup, which at the time we didn't know what
it was filled with. But it wasn't the best ingredient,
but it was still great.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
She'd have it.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Ready for me, you know, hot tomato soup pewter bread
with Swiss cheese, and it was just.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Wow, was it? Was it Swiss cheese in the pew
bread too, Yes, so all Swiss.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It was all Swiss.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Can we get can we text my sister's upstairs cheese?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I love cheese, but it was Swiss cheese. And that
was my introduction to Swiss cheese because I never even
knew what it was. But my godmother always had all
these fancy cheeses.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, my mouth water.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, what I got you on the fresh beautiful? Yeah,
I got you on the fresh Peeda. So it's interesting
you bring up campbell soup, though, I mean, I think
it'd be hard to find someone that grew up in
this country that doesn't have some form of memory with
the Campbell's exactly tomato soup for sure, but even you know,
Bridget likes cream of celery soup. I don't know, I
(07:09):
don't I've never even heard of it before, but she's
like obsessed with the Campbell's. It's one of those brands
that whether you agree with the ingredients, serve right, we
just had it. It's just a staple.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It was there, it was in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So this idea of like the grilled cheese and the
tomato soup, it kind of originated during like World War Two, right.
I mean, there's there's really amazing history behind how just
from an economical perspective, people were seeking out like what's quick,
what can nourish a grilled cheese sandwhich was one of
those things that's like hey, cheese bread, boom, let's eat it.
(07:46):
But it's like, oh, let's we need to make this
meal healthy. Let's combine it with something like tomatoes. You know,
there's like vitamins in it. Right, So I think that
combination kind of occurred out of necessity. And when I
think about eating like a canned super a can for me,
it was actually my dad would get you know, my
dad would get chunky What was it called? Man? Was
it called chunky soup? I think I remember chunky chunky? God, yeah,
(08:10):
beef stew one.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Had all these little potato chunks.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And you know what I liked about chunky soup is
that the can was like bigger than other cans. It
was you know when you see that chunky soup can,
he was like today. Yeah. So I mean, it's just
it's just so fun to think about as I get older,
those moments make me smile. Think about it's not about
(08:33):
the nutrition here, It's about.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yours when you're a kid, especially right, just like that's
that red.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
And white can.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's about to go down, you know, you know it's
wild is as an art collector. When I grew up,
I acquired an Andy Warhol Campbell soup. It was a
study and I had it in my dining room, and
every time I looked at it, I was just like, Wow,
(09:00):
who would have ever thought?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Where is it now?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I auctioned it because when I moved to San Diego,
I wanted to get rid of all of the art
that I acquired during my marriage. So I wanted to
start this new life, this new energy. So I didn't
want to take any art that we acquired together, so
I auctioned off my Andy Warhol. I auctioned off my
Keith Harring. There were a few pieces that I was like, Okay,
(09:25):
I'm going to just sell these, use the money and
buy some living black artists.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's interesting because you're
talking about energy. It's interesting buying from living black artists.
That's putting good energy into it. Yes, that's the kind
of energy we need.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Absolutely, absolutely, So that was the goal and that turned
out really well.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I could imagine, Yeah, imagine.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It was a nice fresh start.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It's good, it's a good time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Is some art.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But no, what you're saying about the tomato soup. I
remember growing up and seeing like combos of half soup,
half sandwich, and I was like, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That's a thing.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I had no idea that what my grandmother was doing for.
She didn't know either, because she's like this little West
Indian lady. You know, she's just giving me what what's
around the place, right, I had no idea that the
soup and sandwich combo was a thing until I grew up.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, you were at you're at like a Panera bread
and you saw.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
The super sandwich, Like, wait a second, and I've been doing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That soup and sandwich. I don't typically go for a
soup and sandwich combo. And the reason is because they
only give you half a sandwich, and unfortunately, on the
time I need my.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Hole, you need a whole ass sandwich.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And then by the time I eat that, then I
just look at the soup and I'm like, well, I'll
save it for later, goes to the fridge, right right,
all right, So here's what I did. I'm going to
prepare this for you shortly, but I'm gonna explain to
you the process here. And my listeners love to hear
the recipe because they're gonna go home and they're gonna
make it and the post about it. I of course
made the pewa from scratch. I used some fresh whole
(11:08):
wheat flour that I get from a local mill around here,
so it's it's high quality flour that you got a
little sweet sour dough starter in it, which actually it's
a sour dough starter with coconut milk, believe it or not.
I added a little bit of yeast, some olive oil,
sugar water, of course, I let the dough rest for
(11:31):
a few hours, I divided it, and then I baked
it in this oven that I've got. Actually, it bakes
out a very high heat. So in order for that
peet it's a pop, like that familiar pop, you know,
so that you got that pocket in the middle, you
need that high heat. So I baked it at high heat,
pretty quick bake actually, and they came out. I mean,
I gotta say it came out quite nice. I'm pretty
(11:51):
And so for the soup, obviously, one would think, let
me just go get some campbells. I did not. Actually no,
I've actually never made tomato soup before in my life.
But I kind of got a headstart because the other
day my little sister she was randomly just like, I
(12:14):
want to make tomato soup from scratch. This is like
last week. And she's like, do you know how to
do it? And I was like, uh not really, So
I started looking it up for her and in my
brain got an idea of what recipes, but then like
I don't know what, it just fell through and we
never made it. I told her, I was like, hey,
go get these ingredients. She never got them. So that's
on her if she wanted. Now, I'm just kidding. So
(12:37):
I had an idea of what to do. Roast a
bunch of tomatoes first and foremost, you know, I got
got some nice tomatoes I got from the market, cherry
and vine tomatoes. Yeah, the beautiful the ones with that
nice deep red color, you know, the hot house or
the beef steak, like you know that's good for sandwich.
But to roast and draw those sugars out, I got
the smaller, juicier red ones. I roasted those on a
(12:59):
sheet train with garlic, with onion, with a bunch of
olive oil, salt and pepper, okay, and I popped in
the oven for about an hour and just like really
let them caramelize. I then got some whole peeled Italian
style plum tomatoes. These are can tomatoes, but they're when
you get good quality tomatoes that are canned, like it's
really great for like a pizza or pasta. I happen
(13:21):
to have like a quart container of these fresh crushed
plum to me, So I added that into the tomato
mixture when it got out of the oven, and so
on the stove. I'm giving you the breakdown here we
gotta come for a full breakdown. So on the stove,
in the Dutch oven over there, I put a bunch
of butter in there, and measures butter, and then I
added flour to actually kind of make a little root
(13:44):
all right, to get it kind of thick. Then I
added all the tomatoes, onions, garlic, all the roasted tomatoes
and your garlic, and I just mixed it up. And
then I added chicken broth, chicken stock. You're not vegan
or anything. Oh shit, okay, that's fucking I gotta go
get the campbels. I imagine that I had to go
get the candles and the Swiss cheese. Now I just
(14:06):
like added the chicken broth. Let that simmer, let those
flavors marinate, and then I puraate it. So then now
we're talking about the onions and the garlic distributing their
flavors like even into it. Popped it back on the stove,
and it's been simmering. Hopefully it's gotten a little bit
thicker than it was. And that's that. And so obviously,
(14:27):
you know, I hope this is it. Obviously it was.
I didn't get Swiss, you know, but I got cheddar
An American. I am a big fan of American cheese,
the way it melts classic. You hate American cheese? A fan?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I do like Cheddar, So I won't.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Use the America. My instincts as soon as you're like,
hmm okay, I'm like, as soon as people.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Say American, I think of the plastic wrapper.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah yeah, that's it right there, but I won't use it. Yeah,
you're like, I sold a Warhol. I'm not eating No.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I love Cheddar.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You love Cheddar. We're gonna go with Cheddar. So I'm
gonna get up.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm going to the American on I want to taste
your idea.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You know. I'll make myself one with American cut it
in yeah, five minutes, stay flaky, we'll be right back.
Welcome back to Flaky biscuit.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Whoa, oh god, Okay, I'm going to get my calcium
this morning.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I need to just split that one.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay, let's just split that one, you know, the American.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay, to the listeners, I'm using two different types of
cheese here, right, so they have different melting points. All right,
So what I saw the cheddar oozing out the sides.
I was like, listen, there's a chance that the mozzarella's
probably melted as well. Cut it a little thick and
it wasn't, so I popped it back on the stove
just now, put the lid on it to let that
steam kind of help give it the melt. All right,
(16:18):
I'm about to get up real quick and get the
soundch you know, I apologize for the delay, although I'm
sure that will just be edited out a TV. And
there you go, and it's time to dig in. I
can't wait for you to try this, to have this,
and I want to know specifics. I want to know
what you taste. I want to know how you know
(16:39):
how the mouthfield, how's the pita?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Definitely the soup is on point.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
What are you tasting?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So there's this familiar taste in the soup I'm trying
to figure out it's like that perfect amount of tang
that you get from the tomato, but then also like
the sweet right m h And I definitely taste the garlic,
which is amazing, beautiful mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
The texture is great.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm looking at your eyes as you eat, and I believe.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
You, Oh, I would never lie to you about that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm believing your facial expression, right.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Now it's bomb and you know what I love about
it because it's not canned soup. Of course, all the
different tomatoes, the different textures are the tomatoes.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, three different tomatoes here.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Mm hmm. All right, I'm gonna do the pita.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I love this calm, relaxing. Like the way you're talking
about this, it is just like it's a very like I'm.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Just zen for my own good sometime. Okay, but I'm excited.
Don't let the zen make you think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Y'all. Hear it out. Y'all heard a crunch. That is
the crunch we go for. Okay, I'm gonna take a Okay,
listen to this.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm biting in for the first time.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Y'all. Wow, it is so good.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The bread is so good.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That might have been the most like sensual bite ever
taken on flake. Yeah, it's good. We love that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This is some sexiest food. M hm hmmm mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I like to do like something like this where I
spooned the soup onto the top of it and then
let it run down. Mm hmm. I gotta say I
have peta grilled cheese. I mean, obviously, I'm sure there's
like a bunch of recipes for that online or something,
but I've never heard of that. Or typically, you know,
peta it's a Middle Eastern bread. It's one of the
(19:00):
first breads. This was one of the first breads, right,
And typically you know in different cultures like Greek culture
or Turkish culture, it's filled with different things, you know,
different meats, different vegetables. But never once in my life
have I really thought like, oh, let me make a
grilled cheese with it.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I mean, it's authentic, it's my grandmother's, my baby's on
her way from school. Let me get this thing together
for her.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Why pea bread? Do you know why she used.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To eat bread? It was her bread she would share
with me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So her favorite bread was pewa bread.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Because she didn't like thick bread. She liked bread that
she could put in the toaster and it would get crunchy.
She liked crunchy bread, right, So Peter was her choice.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Lots of sensual bites over it. Although I suspect you're
disappointed that the cheese I added didn't melt and swirl up,
because that was part of.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
No, no, no, it's fine. It's just a lot of cheese,
and I'm not trying to do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Too much too much cheese, all right, So clearly you
enjoyed you all but cleaned this plate here. You destroyed
that sandwich. The crunch was on point point. I want
to know. Was I able to bring you back with
this meal? Was I able to bring you back to
your grandmother's kitchen?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That is what I'm talking And that's what we can
leave this right here on the table. We can we
can just kind of snack on it, pull it apart, y'all.
Make sure y'all check out this recipe on shondaland dot com.
This is a super fire, whole grain naturally lovingpeta. Love
to see y'all post about it. Make some soup. You
(20:48):
know what I'm saying is you tag us with some
sensual bites. Give us your best sensual bite. Record it.
We want to, We want we want to. We want
to see who can make the most sensual bite of
all time.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And I said I was finished, but I'm still trying
to get all this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
This might be one of my favorite recipes I've made.
I think it comes from the fact that I've never
made a tomato soup before.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You're proud of yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
It should be we had the proofs effect here, the
nostalgic moment. But I want to know a little bit
more about you. I want to know how this meal
has kind of helped shape this phenomenal career that you've had.
You're a very multi talented and creative person. When did
you first realize that you wanted to pursue a career
in arts? Was it music first?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Or yeah, music was first.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I started music professionally when I was eighteen years old.
Before that, I was like a studio rat. I would
leave school and just go to the studio and record
and write. But I got my first big publishing deal
when I was nineteen at Water Chapel Music Publishing in
the City. It gave me a fifty thousand dollars check
to write songs.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I was a kid. I was excited, I was motivated.
So that was the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Beginning of my journey as a professional musician. When I
got that money, I started collecting art. So I knew
right away that I wanted to collect because my godmother,
the same one that had the beautiful kitchen, she was
also a collector. So I grew up around like original
picassos and mirros and really beautiful art. Back then, I
(22:23):
didn't know the value, I didn't know what it meant,
but I saw it, so it became a part of me.
And my uncle was also a painter, So I grew
up in a home where I could smell acrylics and
there were canvases and paint brushes all over the place.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You know, it's interesting how you said smell acrylics.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Oh yeah, I remember going to sleep like, oh my god,
I can't get this smell out my notes, you know,
like paint. Those were just the things that brought me
into that world. But then, growing up as a young
black girl in Harlem, there wasn't much access to art
programs or museums or even galleries. So I didn't know
(23:00):
anything about that world until I got older. And when
I did and I started making money, I knew what
I wanted to collect. I knew what I wanted my
home to feel like. So I started on that journey.
But then as I grew older and had explored the
art industry as a collector, I realized that there weren't
(23:22):
many women artists being shown, there weren't many black artists
being shown, and so I started my company art Leader
in twenty sixteen, which focuses on women artists and black artists.
So since then, I've been exhibiting all over the world,
curating shows for galleries institutions, and also doing my own
(23:47):
independent curations and exhibitions. And to date I've shown i'd say,
over two hundred eighty to three hundred artists all over
the world.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So, you know, my grandmother, everything that's good about me,
I give credit to her for it. She was very calm,
very peaceful, very grounded, and I've just picked up on
that energy.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's great. I mean, it's it radiot, Like I can
feel that energy through the way you talk about art,
or through the way you talk about your journey and
even talking about you know, growing growing up in Harlem,
like you said, and there was poverty, but like you're
very much like you know, this is the foundation that
helped you build into a worldwide arting. You went to Christie's, right,
(24:35):
how did you feel that impacted your growth? I mean,
is that like kind of equivalent to a culinary school, right?
I mean it's like definitely, you know, and just there's
some cooks that like, oh I like culinary school, some don't.
Some say it's worth it. Some don't, so, like, what's
the take on art school? You know?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I do feel like as creative people, we innately have
this thing, right, you know what we want to do.
We can see it before it's done. As a chef,
you knew you wanted to make this, but you already
probably had an idea of what it would taste like
before you even tasted it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Right, Yes, I am the same.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I know what a wall is going to look like
with the art hung before I hang it. So when
we have that gift, I think it's only right to
then couple it with some sort of academic right, some
sort of schooling, some sort of exposure to other people
(25:34):
that do the same thing, so that we can then
elevate that gift, you know, make it more I guess
universal in a way. So Christie's was a choice I
made because I wanted to learn the language. I didn't
have the language. I knew how to create, but I
didn't have the language that's out there in the world
in the industry, you know, And same thing with you, Like,
(25:56):
you know what you want to create, you can create it,
but a little bit of schooling or a little bit
of watching a YouTube, video or education is only going
to enhance it.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's true. I mean there's I don't think anyone could
ever deny that, right.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I mean, it's just facts.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's like you got to put your ego to the
side and just come to terms with the fact that
you need some sort of education on whatever it is
you're passionate about.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
You have to have education to enhance creativity. And said,
I mean, I'm essentially a self taught baker, but I
will say the foundation to my professional technique comes from
a bakery I worked at. And just like repetition being
with other bakers who have done this for years, I
remember vividly this baker named Oscar So. I worked at
(26:42):
Sullivan Street Bakery in Miami, but this guy came down
from New York to like help the Miami bakery, and
I just remember this moment. As a chibata bread. It
is a very popular Italian bread, and each small chibata
weighs supposed to one hundred and sixty grams. So you know,
we've got mountains of dough, right, and everyone stands around
(27:03):
and we all divide it, weigh it, get it onto
the boards. You know, we're dividing. We're weighing. Sometimes it's
too big. We got to chop it off. This guy
did about one hundred of these with no scale, so
he would he divided them. Ask them to me. I
scaled them. I will not joke with you. It's one
hundred and sixty rams every single time. That was one
of the moments. And he was from hopefully Oscar if
(27:24):
you ran listens to But that was a moment. I
was like, man, this what an inspiration for me. So
I might have creative energy, I might have talent, I
might be cool on social media, but a real role
model is seeing the hands of another Latino in a
bakery executing flawlessly over and over again. I was like,
(27:45):
I gotta step my game up right. That just helped
me propel my skill set. It helped me pay more
attention to details. So you know, that's a way to learn.
Just like schooling or just like watching videos, it always
comes down to that foundation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
How are you cultivating your craft? You know, if you
can't answer that question, it's like you got to maybe
you should look look inside and be like, what can
I do to You can never you can never be
the best, right firm.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
There's always going to be someone better than you. You
have to be okay with that. But it's okay to
learn from that person. Okay to listen to what that
person has to say, and just know that you're doing
the best.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That you can do.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Correct, you know, correct, You know, these industries are fickle.
You know, I don't know what the the culinary industry
is like, but I'm sure it's it's an art form
and you know, I'm sure super competitive. So you got
to stay on your p's and q's and you know,
just just figure out the next thing, the next way
(28:44):
to make yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, innovation, Right, What is your process as a creative?
Like how do you get in the zone when you
want to create? What are the key components? Like, let's
just say you wake up and you feel like it's
a day where you know you want to make these
advancements as a creative person, like you know, art a
new project or like what is that like in the
art world?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well, I think that, like with any other form of art,
it starts with self. You know, you don't worry about
the world or the industry. You really have to sit
down and formulate something in your mind. I usually will
write it out. I'm big on creating proposals for myself
so that I can see it like vision boards, Okay,
(29:26):
And that's what I do primarily in San Diego. I
create things in my mind a lot and prepare them
for the world, which I consider New York in LA.
You know. I get the foundation done in San Diego
in the middle of the nature and where no one
is around, right, and then I make the phone calls,
I make the emails, and then I'll travel to execute.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, and it makes perfect sense because you're not
existing in the frantic energy. You're keeping yourself. And I
think it's funny because I'm in the frantic energy right now.
You can't tell I'm, you know, trying to open up Manhattan.
You've put yourself in a position where your baseline energy
in San Diego is very tranquil. It's funny how you
said that you go to New York and LA to execute.
(30:10):
I love how you said that, because you really can't
describe it any better. I mean, that's why I moved here.
It's like to execute. I'm like exactly, you know, I
try to do a bakery in Miami or New Orleans
and It's like, was that for me? It's like, now
I'm gonna go to New York to execute best place. Yeah,
execute almost anything since you've started this mission, right, Like,
how have you seen the representation with black artists change?
(30:32):
Has there been a noticeable change? Is it gradual? Do
you feel like you've been part of that change?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Absolutely a part of it. It's been explosive.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think twenty twenty to now has created so many opportunities,
new platforms, new whole new design for black creatives, black artists.
You know, a lot of the big companies and brands,
their main goal was to create platforms for black artists
to shine. As gimmicky and trendy as it may sound,
(31:05):
it would still an opportunity for us to get out
there and do what we needed to do to then
keep that same energy moving forward. So you got to
keep doing things like this and you know, connecting and
networking and uplifting one another.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Meeting of the minds, you know, no matter the industry
or no matter the skill set. Because some of the
challenges that I faced are no different. I mean they
are different because I'm a man, I have to say that,
but just being a person of color, it always just
sets you back a little bit when you're trying to
find a ceiling or like trying to find, you know,
even a mentor or something like that. So it's like, well,
(31:44):
first of all, I need to find someone that looks
like me, you know, because I'll know that they have
what it takes to navigate those rough waters. And of
course I've got mentors or people I look up to
who might be wider a Korean or something like that,
and that's still very badvaluable, but finding people that really
look like you and like they like to eat what
(32:04):
you like to eat, they like to eat. If we
don't do this, then it's almost like we're keeping doors
like closed. But when we open these doors and welcome
each other in and we kind of cross paths and
just say hey, like you know, it might just it
might be pita bread or it might be an exhibit,
but we're we got to get on.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I mean, think of how many thousands of people are
now going to know you because of me and vice versa,
you know, and that's the ongoing work that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Absolutely, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this.
Enough of that, enough of that, back to the interview.
(32:57):
A lot of listeners here might be food forward listeners,
and so they might be, like me, a little bit
of novice when it comes to approaching visual arts. Do
you have and I was, I was, literally was it
last night talking with Ari Literally on the couch with
my sister last night. We were talking about art and
I was listening to some I was listening to some
funk or some Brazilian music or some Cumbia or something,
(33:20):
and I was like, my body reacts to music as
art stronger than it does for visual art, Like I
don't understand how to interpret a lot of visual art.
Does that make sense? And so I feel like that
might be common. Do you have any tips on how
to approach you know, a painting.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
You know, art is not going to appeal to everybody
the same way, and that's okay. Visual art is a
very distinct thing. I feel like you've had to have
come from an upbringing where you grew up around artists
or collectors or there were paintings in your home you
(34:00):
to appreciate that as an adult. I honestly don't know
many people like yourself that have said, oh, I don't
know how to look at art because I have a
good community of people that are, you know, like minded
as far as looking at art. It's also my profession,
so I have to. But I've spoken to many people
(34:24):
that just don't know how to immerse themselves right into
an exhibition or a painting. You look at it for
a little while and you're like, what am I looking at?
And I understand that because I've looked at paintings sometimes
and I'm like, Okay, I'm bored. You know, I can't
look at this anymore. I think that for people like
you that are trying to understand that, you just have
(34:45):
to connect with the artists that resonate with your lifestyle
and your background. So I will send you I will
make a point to send you a list of shows
that are up right now in New York with artists
that I think you should check out that I think
would you know, open you up to that? Okay, because
(35:07):
let me tell you, when you connect those dots of
like you just asked me a question about how does
this food make me feel? Right, when you stand in
front of a painting that makes you feel something that
makes you remember something about your family or your childhood,
you could stand there for like hours and just weep cry,
(35:27):
Like if you're looking at the right thing, it really
gets into you.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So it's possible.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I remember the first time I stood in front of
a painting and cried. It doesn't happen often, but I
do remember the first time it happened, and I was like,
oh my God, like I just felt it all over
my body.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Would you be willing to share details?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It was at the Whitney Museum in the city. I
think I was so caught up I forgot the painter's name,
but I just stood there. It just reminded me of
It was a moment I remembered as a child in
her Harlem, and the whole setting, and the way the
people were moving, and the eyes, like the look into
the eyes of the paintings. The eyes usually help you
(36:10):
feel something.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I'm about to just go to a guy. I'm I
want to experience that. Wow, what's next? What's next for you?
What is the big?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh, the big big thing? Right now?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I'm gonna I'm working on a book right now, and
I plan on really shutting everything off and really you know,
completing it. You know, it's a novel, so it requires
a lot of imagination and thinking, so I just want
to get off of Instagram. I want to shut down
(36:46):
and just be like a weird writer.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
That is honestly amazing to hear that you're taking those
steps because I can totally relate. My cookbook is now
coming out next year instead of in October because I'm
a little behind on it and you want to stay
perfect it is, Okay, I do want it to be
the idea of perfect. We have a couple more things
here at Flaky Biscuit. It's not all just about nostalgia
(37:11):
and the comforting feelings of art forms. All about having
a little bit fun too. Okay, we're gonna have a
little fun. We're gonna play our flaky game. Oh boy, yeah,
it's it's I love the reaction. Oh boy, fear not,
fear not. It's a few fun multiple choice questions. Okay,
we will start with a simple one. I think what
(37:34):
company made its first can of ready to eat tomato
soup in eighteen ninety five? Was it Adidas? Was it Craft?
Was it Campbell's or was it Kellogg's Samples? Yes? Yeah,
so did it feel like a trick question? Really?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Not really?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Okay, okay, good, good, good good. So we're talking about
tomato soup. Where were tomatoes for documented to have been
cultivated and by whom? All right, I have three choices
for you. Was it by Australians? Was it by Aztecs
and Incas in meso America? Or was it here an
Astoria queens.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I know it's not Italy. I read that somewhere, so
I knew you wasn't going to say.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
That it's not Italy. Think about how did it get
to Italy?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Say the first two again.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Australia or Aztecs and Incas in meso America.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Because it's such a contrast.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Of I'd say Australia.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No, no, no, not Australia. I failed you Astec and Incas. Yeah,
tomatoes are indigenous to the Americas. And the way it
even got to Italy was colonists came here, did their
colonizer thing, fucked everything up, and they were like, oh
those are cool, let's bring them back, and they brought
them tomatoes back over there, and that's when tomatoes started
(39:01):
to get cultivated in Europe. Everyone seems to think tomatoes
are Italian. I think that's oh yeah, well you know what, Honestly,
I feel like you kind of answered the question right
by knowing it's not Italy. Right, all right? Last one
for you. We kind of touched on this earlier. What
country makes cold tomato soup known as gaspacho? And do
you agree that tomato soup can be served cold? I
think we already got your answer to that. But is
(39:23):
it Spain, Thailand or Brazil?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
A spacho is Spain?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
It is Spain, ding ding ding, And do you agree
that tomato.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Soup it is?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I'm awful.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Have you ever had the little tomato ice creamy things?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
You know? It is? I don't play with coltivated if
it's like a salad, and I'll play with the cold tomato.
We appreciate you playing the flaky game, and we do
want to just talk briefly about, you know, kind of
what led to the foundation of art leader, you know,
and like the most important part of being successful is like, yeah,
we can take our nice trips and you know, again
(40:00):
the nice shoes or whatever it is that we do,
but like what are we doing with that to uplift
and like, obviously you're doing a lot, So I would
love to hear a little bit about art Leader and
how my listeners and myself can help.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, I think the work that I do it's like
pay forward work. The work that I've done with art
Leader is one hundred percent dedicated to helping artists. I
scout emerging artists, artists that really have never shown before.
They're new into the art world. They need opportunities, they
(40:33):
need a platform, and I create those platforms for them.
And a lot of people don't want to do that
because there's no immediate glory in that. There's no real
like you don't get to stand next to someone that's
famous and take a photo and post it and get
a million likes. When you do that kind of work,
you know, you're literally working with people that have never
(40:57):
been seen before, never been heard of, and you're taking
a chance on them. I love seeing the underdog when
I do the kind of work that I wish someone
would have done for me right when I was coming up.
So I think the best way to support art Leader
and the artists is to just follow art Leader on
(41:19):
Instagram and stay in tune with the exhibitions and the
curations and the artists that we post, and follow them
and follow their journeys.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, couldn't have said it better. Support, support, right, foundation,
pushing up, building up. I think it's really important if
you're living in a city where something's happening. By art Leader,
get out there and show some love. Get out there
and show some support so that you can weep some
tears or feel a certain way.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, connect.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
You can also learn more at art leader dot com.
Correct Shanda, I really really, really really thank you for
coming today.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So thankful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The food was amazing, the energy was amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
To see what you do next, Yeah, yeah, you will say, okay,
all right, thank you bang all right, y'all, thank you
so much for listening today. And you can find the
tomato soup and Peter bread recipe on Shondaland dot com.
I want to know how it goes for y'all. Tag
me at artists and Brian and of course tag Mashanda
(42:23):
Tifrere that's at m A S h O N d
A t I F R E r E, post photos videos.
You know what I'm saying. Let's get in the discord
and talk about the recipe. I want to know all
the details. As usual, ask me your questions as they
arise and don't forget to check out art Leader at
(42:44):
art leader dot com. That's a R T L E
A d h E R dot com. You can find
my handle and all the links I mentioned in the
show notes for this episode. If you like Flaky Biscuit,
rate it, review it five stars, ten stars. All right,
this is the best food podcast ever exists. Make sure
that you let everyone know that Flaky Biscuit is executive
(43:07):
produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang,
and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer is Bridget Kenna and
our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder, with music by Crucial.
Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be found each week on
shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for
more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit is a production of
(43:32):
Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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