Brad Holmes - GM Detroit

Thomas heads to Detroit to speak with newly minted GM Brad Holmes. Thomas and Brad share a unique experience in that they both graduated from Director of College Scouting to the GM chair.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
founder of fair meals five, oh, one, C, three status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass are three

(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best it can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. Hey, I'm really glad you guys joined
me on that trip with Eric Da Costa. What a ride,

(00:43):
what a journey to be around the northeast spending time
with Eric Da Costa. Again, big shout out to Eric
for the time and the insight and and, by the way,
his good buddy John Mennadacus from Jimmy seed food. We
had an awesome time thereafter man Um had a few
pops and and ate some great seafood and I just
I can't thank him enough for the ride. It was all.

(01:05):
It was all great. Welcome to the GM journey with
Thomas Demittrof as you know from Baltimore, we jumped over
to to Detroit and spent some really good time with
Brad Holmes and Brad, as you know, first time, first
year general manager. Spent a lot of time with him
talking about, you know, those first ninety days. And this guy,

(01:29):
this guy comes from a really good organization, meaning his
back drop with the rams and and less, need less,
tutored than well, really thought out guy. I really like
where he's doing. He's a really good soul too. I
think you'll realize it in the in the discussion. He's
got some cool insight for a first time general manager
and he's also he's also a depth guy with with,

(01:50):
you know, a soul Pul side to him that shares
and I really enjoyed my time with him getting to
know him more. I hope you guys enjoy it and
I hope you guys can really tap into how it
feels to be a, you know, first year general manager
in those early days. Man, it is hit is, it
can be pretty harsh, but in the end you're very
proud that you're there check it out. So the first

(02:11):
six months you've had a ton on your plate, right,
I remember that. It's bringing me back to my ears.
I'm feeling old. It's thirteen years ago, a lot more
gray hair. Of course, you're already showing a little bit
on your beard and I love it. It makes you,
it makes you look distinguished and and it makes all
those other GMS I want to trade with you think.
Think the second thought. You know, like man this, this

(02:33):
guy's got a lot of knowledge in his background. So
six months in, talk to me about the idea of
you were. You were the coveted GM candidate this offseason. Uh,
a lot of really cool things going your way. A
lot of us don't get that sort of notoriety coming
into interview and we just we hit and miss and
we get very fortunate and all of a sudden we're

(02:54):
a GM somewhere. You've had a lot of people down
the stretches who were really interested in you. Can you
coment on how that feels to be sort of coveted
and wanted? That's that's a that's a great question, because
I always went into it thinking that I was like
more under the radar, like non coveted, like you know,
I used to always just unless used to talk less.

(03:15):
You need, you know, back the ring, to always talk
about just dominate your role and I literally the only
reason why I got to this point is just truly,
and I don't want to sound like scout speak or
GM speak, but truly just dominating and focusing on my
role and trying to be the best. So when I
when I when the news first broke, I was getting
an opportunity to um interview with the Falcons Um. You know,

(03:38):
I was like, wow, okay, that's you know, that's that's
that's that's really cool, Opportunity of a lifetime all that.
But then when Detroit, that Opportunity Detroit came through, and
then now you start seeing your name and multiple and
I'm like wow, I guess I'm doing something right. But
you know, you don't really look at on the outside

(03:59):
saying like wow, people really want me. I'm just like,
because you really get that first chance, I was like look, man,
make sure I don't Epp this up. You know, I'm
just I'm just preparing my asshole while still balancing everything
that less had me doing as well and supervising the
scouts and all that. So you're basically doing to basically
full time jobs almost, and then you get that other opportunity.

(04:21):
So you're actually so deeply immersed in balancing all of
your current job, preparing for two others and all of that.
I didn't really think about am I coveted or not?
You know, I'm just like, I just want to make
sure that I take advantage to the opportunity and and
and I get that, because you know, that's tough to say, like, wow,
I felt great. I find you know, you went to

(04:43):
North Carolina and team right. It wasn't like it wasn't
like you were shining on a huge school. I know
about being a small school guy and Canadian school on
top of that, even though I say this respectfully to
my Canadian friends, I'm not Canadian, but I appreciate that.
You know, growing up through a certain way and then
when you get to this role, it's a it's a
big deal. There's a lot going on. It's a dream job,

(05:04):
of course, and you you came into this job similar
to me, and I say it humbly and respectfully, you
came into this job moving from the director of college
scouting into the general manager job. Right. I did the
same thing and and that was a big thing for me. Basically,

(05:24):
there were people out there that had jealousies towards me.
Back then I knew that. I mean, I used to
get some of my buddies calling me Lionelf. I tell you,
know what they're saying about you, and you have a
lot of people throwing darts of you. You weren't ready
for this job. You did. You didn't have the director
of player personnel or you didn't have the the VP
of player personnel. You came to this job from the
college director job. So how does that feel? How has

(05:48):
that complicated things or has it helped things? Because you
know as well as I do, when these when these
owners are looking at the next GM, they really want
someone with a really sound background in college scouting. Sure, no,
that's a great question. I do think that my experience
in the college draft helped me immensely and even when
I first started just actually knowing the draft, going into it,

(06:12):
you're kind of just gotting these crossing teasing, like you mentioned,
the million other things that are coming across your place.
It's like wow, but you brought a good point in Thomas,
I'm not sure if you remember, but we're at a
symposium after school of Wharton that you spoke at one time.
This may have been seven, eight years ago and afterwards

(06:32):
I came up and asked you a question about how
was it coming from being a college director, because I
think I was like my second year college director, come
from a college director to be a Gmail and just
as like, I look back and I'd be like, you know,
the Ozzy knewsoms of the world like for provided hope
for me coming up and going. You actually kind of
actually provided that hope in terms of going from college

(06:54):
director to GM. I never forget you said, you know what,
it can be done. I was asking you about not
being in the office, leaving outside of the office, and
you're like, you know, I lived outside and we got
your opportunity. Said, you know what, try to distinguish yourself
when you get that opportunity. Yeah, I never forget when
you said that, that kind of have resonated with me.
Thank you for sharing that. I do remember that. Now,

(07:15):
you know, sometimes we get spun around. I'm like, wow,
I remember. I remember the warden time and I remember
talking about that because a lot of people did pinpoint
me on that early on in the media, you know,
from from some of my other you know people and
and you know I was talking to Ryan Grigson, the
other day I was talking to Steve Kim that whole group,
you know, we talked about that and I and I
say again, I appreciate hearing that. Some of us, you know,

(07:38):
we all pave our ways in certain ways. Right, you're
gonna look back on in years to come and you
gonna say you paved a way for a lot of
people in a lot of different ways. We all want
to feel like we paved away and I feel like
that idea of of having a really strong, solid college background,
knowing that we both me thirteen years ago and you now,

(07:58):
there's a lot to learn. You know, you're learning about cap,
you're learning about pulling things again, you're learning about being
in an office, which that's that's a different thing with
you know, within itself, right, and I think about that often.
How I learned and I was always open to learn,
and you're you have a sponge element to you like
I do. I want to continue to learn. I know
that I wanted to kick ass as much as I

(08:19):
could on the college side, where I was thriving, but
I was looking forward to learning and all these other
areas which you're smack DAB in the middle of it.
All right, I mean it's it's it's a it's really interesting.
All Right, let me ask you this question candidly and,
I know, humble from you, because that's gonna be you. Um,
you know, when when you go through this whole process, uh,

(08:39):
in the end, something has to differentiate you from from
the rest, right, because you know, there are a number
of people that got jobs. There's some great people. I'm
I'm I'm really excited. I know it seems counterintuitive for
people to hear me say I'm excited about what Terry
Fontino is gonna do in Atlanta, but I really like
Terry and I want the best for him. I want

(09:00):
the best for the team, of course. I mean I
think there's a good football team there for him to
grow with, so I'm excited about that. If you could,
what do you think differentiates you from others who were
going for the job in Detroit? What what did you
bring to the table? Without feeling uncomfortable talking about that,

(09:21):
you know what, I will say this. The whole way
leading up to it and you're asking all these gems,
current GMS, former GMS, you know, mentors that I had.
What is the best if I should gathering all this
information and that you keep him this reoccurring theme, be yourself.
That was always like the last one of yourself, be yourself,

(09:43):
and I'm like that just sounds Cliche, like just gotta
be something else. There's gotta be some other magic sauce
that you sprinkle, that you have to nail in the interview.
And after I was offered the job and just fortunately,
humbly gladly accepted, that was what it all came back.

(10:04):
It's just being myself and you know, things and I
don't know, I can't speak on other candidates of what
they did in those interviews. Um, I'm sure that they
probably we were theirselves, but you know, there's things that
I personally being myself, that I have vested interests in.
You know, I'm very passionate about, you know, the psychologist
psychology of decision making and you know kind of how

(10:27):
to eliminate certain biases and when it comes to decision making,
and you know, just a ton of books on that
that I've read and trying of applying that to you know,
the philosophy and our process and things that I, you know,
learned from less in terms of evolution and how process evolution,
how that entails and even with the fusion of how

(10:48):
can you, you know, perfectly merge analytics with qualitative that
and quantitative data? How defuse that equally and have success?
So all those things that I'm really, really pad about,
but not forgetting who I was and who I was
and where I came up is, like to say, traveling
around scouting, hitting the role, watching that tape and finding

(11:12):
good football players. So so you give me chills talking
about that. I'll never I will never lose that, I
know because I love what I have done for the
last almost thirty years and the last thirteen, you know,
in the general manager role. And I remember spending a
lot of time over the last probably two or three
years as I started to get, you know, in those

(11:32):
double digit years, and I was thinking, okay, where am
I right now? I started thinking more about legacy, I
started thinking more about quite honestly, I was in a
spot where I wanted to to really hone in on
mentoring and helping a lot of people grow so that
they were ready. I mean it was always a part
of who I was, um, but I really thought that
I was going to kick into gear. Unfortunately, it ended
in October where I was like smacked out in the

(11:53):
middle of thinking about the mentoring side, it started coming
back to authenticity and realness and saying, look, we all
know we have to navigate a certain way and and
you know, early on sometimes in this business we have
to you know, maybe maybe hot, not high. I hate
to say that. We we have to be particular about
not wearing things on our sleeve. That's changing now. Brother,

(12:14):
I would say to you you're very fortunate. Thirteen years
after when I started, people are accepted in this league
a lot more for who they are. Run with it, because, again,
I get chills talking about it. Knowing that you can
be who you are and thrive in this business. That's
gonna be that's gonna be part of your legacy and
and and I love that. I think it's great. Look you,

(12:37):
you alluded to the fact, uh, that less need had
a big part in in your growth. We talked about
it earlier. Lesson Kara Henderson his wife, who are fantastic
people who love you, thrive. They they think they thrive
talking about you. Even when I was out there interviewing
with less, I was like, wow, they couldn't wait to
try to secure this interview with you. So if I

(12:59):
asked you one salient leadership point that you would take
away from yourself from less need. It doesn't have to
be long and drawn out. What would that be? I
would definitely say lead with empathy. Uh, the the ability
to lead with empathy. Um, you know sometimes when things
are happening to you and you're actually feeling it, you

(13:20):
don't obviously consciously know it's happening, but it's like, you know,
he's got good leadership, like I'm I'm actually I want
to listen, I want to reach out to him, I
want to but then when let's start talking to me
about leadership, and then we start sharing books and research
and all that kind of stuff, and he's actually teaching
me and I said, wow, that actually what you've been doing,

(13:42):
which I thought really worked and resonated with me. Then
that's a leadership style or leadership main point, cog that
has really worked for me. And the other thing that
add is just being honest and direct, you know, and
and there there's a way of doing it, you know,
like there's there, there, there's a way to provide feedback.
Everybody wants feedback. Everybody just doesn't want to hear the

(14:05):
bad news. You know what I mean? But you don't
want to fabricate or not be of theensic or not
be or be disingenuine with good news. So it's just
finding that balance of actually providing critical feedback and leading
with empathy and being honest and direct. You know has
bode well from me, but points that I've learned from lesson. Well, look,
I I think about empathic leading, what we're talking about here,

(14:28):
and I think about less of course I think about
how important that was to me. And it's complicated to
your point, meaning there's a side of us who are
competitive and driven and and have we always have that
football element in the back of our our our world,
whether we're big dudes like you or, you know, scrawny
defensive backs playing in Canadian College football. It was something

(14:51):
that was always a part of my my drive right,
and so when I got into leadership roles within the NFL,
there were times that I was like my, my, My, my, uh, tough, driven,
hard nosed element that I was brought up with in
a football family, with a father who was a tough
ass dude. I had that and I had to start
looking at it a little bit differently, not not being myself,

(15:14):
because you still have to always be yourself to an
earlier point, absolutely, but you have to make sure that
you are driving the point home. You have to make
sure that there are times, I like to call it
UH semantically responsible. Right, how you deliver something in those
earlier years and your leadership might be very different than
how you're doing it now. Right to make sure that
morale is at the right spot. When I first got

(15:37):
the college director position, you know, there was no I
was so happy to get the college director collector, but
there's no book of you gotta Manage. You have to
make sure that this were like that. There is no
book on that. That wasn't given to me like that.
So I'm like wow. So I always felt like I

(15:58):
was natural from a leadership stand point because all this
was captain on my teams in football or, you know,
homecoming king, and so I was like, but you never
really thought of it. You never was like I don't
know how I am Lee, I'm just being myself. But
then when I get this college director role, Guy, you know,
was laid on his deadline. You know, I'm picking up
the phone, Hey, what's it going in? And then now

(16:22):
that specific employee, there's some scouts that are like, you
know what I really needed that. There's some scots just
like look, I didn't really and so now, as you
kind of grow and learn, now empathically you're like, you know,
hold on, let me step back and truly seek to understand.
And the other thing is accountability. You know, like now

(16:42):
it's like, okay, don't pick up the phone first year
college directed and be mad that the air scout was
late on his he missed a deadline. Now it's like
what did I do to see if I could done
something better, to put something in place to make sure
that that deadline was reaching the more a fishient manner,
you know. So one of those things. And there was

(17:02):
a never forget of less give us these books extreme
ownership and and read that book, and that really Jocko
will and and I mean excellent book. Even the audiobook
is probably even better. But M yes, it's it's just
it's amazing. But it really gave me that accountability aspect.
On leadership is like look, don't always see something wrong,

(17:24):
and it's like no, so all those things are just lessons,
but you don't learn. And my my mother, she's been
a leadership role and management role for like thirty years
in the educational field and I used to always go
back to her and be like, you know, mom, I
you know, I'm trying to get this right, but and
she was just telling me just all these different ways,

(17:45):
but it all comes back to you gotta be yourself.
You gotta be yourself. Don't be non authentic, disingenuous. Be
Be genuous. But there's a way to do it. Brother,
you're speaking my language. We talked a little earlier and
you brought up, you know, Ryan holiday, you know, the
the ultimate stoic out there, and we we were, you know,

(18:05):
you're you're bringing up Jocko will nick and extreme ownership.
You also had a quote there that I live by.
You know, the whole idea of seek not to be
understood but to understand. That is at the core what
I always have to remind myself because at times, you know,
we get so self immersed, and I love that you
have have that understanding and it's where I knew, even

(18:27):
from our early, early discussions, that we had a bond
that I that I appreciate, and I'm not being hokey
about that. Sometimes you have a you know, have an
immediate I do have an immediate. Feel like there's something
about this cat that I really think has a has
a really interesting element of bond. All right, I could
go on and on about that. Let's talk about let's
talk about the first ninety days. Right, the first ninety

(18:49):
days on your job. If you were to recommend two
up and coming rising executive slash general managers or general managers,
talk to me about the first ninety days is not
only in your world but also navigating that with a
hard nosed head coach and and and a building that
has high expectations. Can can you discuss that? Well, you know, uh,

(19:11):
the first ninety days. You know, and I've heard it
called given the first ninety days. Give me a first
hundred days and I had all that, you know, in
my schedule and calendar and presentation. I learned within about
a month and then after those first nine into a
hundred days were completed, I would say I would tell
any other aspiring general manager you can have that on

(19:35):
the calendar and you can have it. I'm going to
accomplish this. That, that that that, that that that every day.
You Might Alo just expand that to about a hundred
and fifty days, almost two hundred days. And Not saying
that you're not focused and you're not getting task, but
there's so much unpredictability, there's so much uncertainty, there's so
much what I call pop ups that just come up

(19:57):
and you know you have that you gonna focus on
this in free agency this day in February. Well, you
did not predict that. You know, this player had this
off the field issue or this employee had this go
on in their personal life. You did not predict that

(20:17):
happening and that consumes your entire day. Is Not that
you got off traffic and that you were in focus,
it's just that you have to manage. You have to
manage all of that. So again it's almost like going
back to like, you know, in the college scouting days.
You know, you make a fall calendar right and you
say this is where I'm going in August and September

(20:39):
and you got it all line up. thinginging being it's like, Oh,
this looks great on this paper, but it's like you
just didn't know when you got that flat tire, you
didn't know when the rain was a trenchial down for
and you had to head up these mountains in the
apple like those those things that are unforeseen. You just know,
like you have to prepare for those guys and leave
room for those things to happen. And I would tell

(21:01):
Lenas Barron Gum just always know that that's coming. That's coming.
It's always gonna come. And and I've often looked at
it as well, by the way, the visuals for me,
you were saying, things popping up. I was imagined like
these balloons coming up here. Before you know there's five
of the balloons popping up here and I'm thinking whole
what is going on here? Part of that also brought

(21:21):
me to that, to that understanding talking about, you know,
some of these more outside of the box thoughts, maybe
not that far outside, but that idea of being a
piece of Driftwood at times when you're in this role,
meaning like there are times you have to not fight it,
you have to go down the river and be light
enough where you know. Now there are other times you
have to be stout and strong, but there are other
times that it's just not worth fighting every current that

(21:44):
you're going to face as a as a general manager
in this league. And that's one thing about and and
you mentioned, you know, having having a head coach. That's
just what Dan. He's I would say, and I've said
it before, that's one of the best things about my
job is working with damn. It's just he's just a
he's just a joy to work with. Um, where, where where.

(22:08):
We're cut from the same cloth in a lot of
different ways of how we see things, both on and
off the field, how we see football, how we's in
you know, the the energy of the passion, that's all real.
But just as I try to be an outside the
box thinker and not just being outside the box, to
being outside the box. But you know, one thing less
taught me is that just because scouting was done one

(22:29):
way doesn't need to be done on the way, and
Dan often brings that up in terms of like he'll
just brings up it's like, well, how about you do this?
So we are you thinking? It's like wow, that's actually
a really good idea. So that's actually been a joy
to wash. But you know, Um, you do have to
from a delegation standpoint, like you said, you can't put

(22:49):
out every single fire and I will say I feel
very fortunate to have a great staff and team around me, Um,
and it's just been excellent. Starting from the very top
with Sheila and the Ford family, Rodwood, you know, Mike Dizit,
Chris Spielman. It has been just critical. And then the
entire personnel staff. You Know Rayag knew John Dorsey. I

(23:12):
mean it's just it's just a great staff. So that
way sometimes you're not pulled in down deep into every
single fire and then having a great support team around you. Well,
the support team right, how important is that? We know
how important it is to have the right team, literal players,
but I think at times people don't understand how important
it is to truly have the right people around you

(23:32):
and all the different areas, especially, I think personally, when
I was when I was growing in those early years,
it was really important to have counsel and I, and
I say this all the time, I never came in
as the GM like you did, thinking like I was
holder in the bow. I knew that I had a
lot of strength that I felt comfortable with, but I

(23:52):
knew I had areas that I needed to work on
and I was very open to working on them. I
mean the relationship that I had with people in our building,
even even like someone like like rich McKay, who I get,
I've always gotten along with and that was a little
bit complicated because rich was a GM when I came in,
but I was very open. I never made any any

(24:13):
bones about the idea. Like. Look, there are elements that
someone like you know, Rich McKay, who was in charge
of the competition committee. There was a lot of information
to Glean and and share on on both sides. So
that's so important to have an open mind and to
understand that. You know, you might have Rodwood who who
has a lot of really big picture ideas that he

(24:34):
can share for you. He's not a football guy by trade,
all due respect right, but and in same with Mike Disneer.
Mike Disneer wasn't, he didn't wasn't raised in the business
like you and me. That said, he has a lot
of really interesting and important information to help you grow
with and as as well as Chris pilman. Of course,
Chris has an ultimate amount of of of football knowledge

(24:54):
to talk about it and I'm sure you guys get
along very well because Chris is a hard nosed, direct guy,
and I think so. It seems as though you have
a really cool group of people to grow and it
was very evident early on in the process of you know,
just during the interview process, just the communication and dialogue
from the very first virtual interview to just the follow

(25:15):
up dialogue, communication and just when things just feel right,
they just feel right and you know, I truly found
that with the Detroit lines and the team that we
have around us and all those in the individuals. They're
all great, you know, impressively. You Know Rod, his knowledge
of football is I mean he's almost he's almost an Almanac,
like he can just he'll spit out something for like

(25:37):
a decade and going down and distance, a critical play
and then even like a disoner with he's so knowledge
with the football ad men and the salary cap and everything.
That's very creative intelligence, but has a base knowledge of
understanding got to football aspect. And you know, Chris is
just got the heart of gold and he's just been
such a his servant leadership has just bode well for

(26:00):
the entire organization and it's it's been very impressive, very helpful.
That's great to hear. I love to hear that because
you come in and you know this is a situation
where it's really important these these early moments and early months,
to really set it off well and it's a really
good feeling when you know you have the right people
around you to, you know, to navigate, you know, something

(26:20):
that's not not that easy. Of course, you a good
part about, like everybody has things you got to work on.
You know. That was one of the things that Ye
being a college director, you do so much by yourself
in terms of you're on the road by yourself, but
you're actually you're managing the scouts one on one by yourself,
sometimes in the group setting, and you gotta or like

(26:42):
you do a lot of stuff on your own, and
that's great because, you know, fortunately, with less, he gave
me the ownership to do a lot of things and
kind of take it and run with it. But when
you get up to this chair, it's like you can't
do everything by yourself, you know what I mean, like
you have to delicate and it goes back to what
we were talking about about having the right support team

(27:03):
in the in the right staff around you. And so
I'm very fortunate, but that's something I had to learn
and actually prove upon in terms of white look, I
can't do everything by myself. It's like I have to
delegate this, delegate that, and have trust with that look.
Look to throw my last shout out to college directors
by trade. I have always said that that is one

(27:26):
of the most complicated and difficult and enervating jobs in in, in,
in the in the in the in the League or,
you know, within a team. Not I mean people may think, Oh,
you're traveling around, you're watching great games. Yes, there's an
element of that, but you not only have to do
your own work. Of course you have to do your
own reports and you're a hard working guy and you're
a diligent football man. Uh, that's your your your reputation

(27:48):
around the league. So you're not one that's just like,
you know, piecemeal and sitting in a room talking to
a whole bunch of people about how they see, you know,
the League, the College League, and and where people are
falling in the draft. Or you're doing your work. And
I've always said that when you're a college director, man,
I think it really sets you up to be ready
for a GM in different ways. A lot of people say, well,

(28:09):
you're not in there working on the cap or you're
not in there interacting with this, this group for that group.
I get that, but the other points of being able
to manage a navigated not only setting up a draftboard. Brother,
you know that it's about. It is about having multiple
things on your plate and it it can be complicated. Absolutely. You.
You brought up a great point. It's first of all,
is I do truly believe it's one of it, and

(28:31):
I haven't done every role within a personnel department, but
I always thought college director is one of the more
complex because, like you said, it's so many like you
are doing your party, like you're doing your evaluations and
you're traveling wrong, but then you're making sure that everybody
else's work is up to standard enough to smell me
and making sure that that development aspect is taking place

(28:53):
as well. So I've always thought that. But at the
same time that actually gave me a little bit of
sense of trying to prepare for a GM job, a
little bit of, I guess, a sense of insecurity of
like man, I haven't been in deep dive free agency
and salary cap like I have been all the time,

(29:13):
and he used to let me, but you know, I
was like man, the college part consumed so much of
your time. You know, it's almost like I was even
having a tough time to even having those opportunities to
be in free agency meetings and talk about the salary
cap and all that type of stuff. It was still
a stroke of a fine time because the college scope,

(29:35):
but very fortunate college directors. I do think that that
can set you a Berber and Nice sleep. Let me
let me do my hey pro directors out there, I
love you and you know that. I mean, unless you
like trade. But the reality is, the reality is you
guys are able to have those nice smoothies during the
day and you're able to have your nice comfortable chairs.
We were, you know, traits and around in vans down

(29:58):
by the river and we we're having those dirty looks
for some of those college coaches when you're carrying in
your bagels and your your donuts and they're looking at
you like, you know, your your head experience. Now, all
due respect to any job, because I think it's such
a hard working you would say, like Ray AG knew
our assistant, Jim. You know, uh, he was a pro director.

(30:19):
We know when I was with the rams and him
coming in. You know when he came in, you know
at the start a free agency. You know, immediately helped
and alleviated a lot of kind of potential. You know,
concerns that I had coming down to kind of like, well,
I do know this part, but how did you set

(30:39):
this up and what's this part of the process? And
I couldn't have been more fortunate to have ray on
board and with his experience of being a pro director.
I don't think there's any way that we would have
got through free agency as well as we got to
without put outlet let's let's let's switch lanes here for

(31:08):
a minute. I'm not asking you in any way to
throw darts. You've been around some UH, regimes. Let's say.
You've been around I believe it's five different changes in
head coaches. Um, some very good head coaches, of course,
and they probably a lot of them very good head coaches.
They're not head coaches that they weren't, but but things,
you know, run their course. Of course. Without being specific

(31:31):
about a name necessarily, of any of those five, what
was the salient point that you learned from one of
those situations that you take with you that you know
that it's going to be really important for you in
the Detroit Lions job? I'd say two things, and they
kind of the kind of piggyback off of one another.
But one was like the collaboration aspect of it, of

(31:55):
of truly making sure that everything is a collaborative effort.
And you know, Um, the last regime that I was with,
with the rams, with Sean and less, you know, Sean,
Sean McVeigh brought in, uh, we not meet, and that
that really permeated through the entire organization and it kind
of took that ego out of it, that it's all

(32:16):
about the team and it's not about anything, nothing bigger
than the team. And Dan and I have that same
exact mindset. We constantly talked about no ego and that
that that's actually bode well for us. You know it
thus far to this point. But on the collaboration aspect
of it, Um, it truly hit home about you know, you, you, you.

(32:36):
There's been times through all the regime changing and being
a head coach. I think it's one of the hardest
jobs in the world and it's a lot. But Um,
through all those regime changes there's been times where it's like, well,
it's personnel department and it's it's coaches and the coaches
are over here in the person and you know, and
that doesn't always bring the best results, because now it's

(32:59):
just a friction battle, where that collaboration, when everybody's on
the same page. Um, that was a recipe for success
in my mind that I thought through lit regime changes
and you know, hopefully that's what we carry along here
with the with the lines. That's what Dan and I
are all about and that's what Sheila is all about,
and the four family is a collaborative approach and that's

(33:21):
what we're doing this. So we not me. Idea is
really important and, as you know, really important as long
as everyone is truly living it from the top down right.
So if if the top two guys are saying we
we not meet everyone else and and their ego, Maniagal,
you know, pounding their chest. I of course, you have
the ultimate say there. You know, football say you guys

(33:43):
are you guys have what you had to do. You
and Dan have to run the show. But as you know,
you know, we lead by example, of course, in that
situation and as long as you're you're you're running that
trail in the right way, that's that's a great, great thing,
and and you had an opportunity to see that around
someone like McVeigh right. He's I I continue to be
impressed with his intelligence and his level of of of

(34:06):
ability to navigate so many different things. That's, you know,
in his his recall, whatever it may be, um, but
the we, not me. I love, you know, always going
back to that because I think it is it's really important. Alright,
let's let's talk a little bit more logistics here, a
little bit more, uh, focused, Um, and not as big picture.

(34:27):
On the leadership side. You made early on, was it
in the first three weeks of your tenure? Um, a move,
a blockbuster move. I think I mean a quarterback move.
You traded a quarterback that have been here for a
long time for a quarterback that you had at your
your previous team. For those people that you know this

(34:47):
goes global, like I hope it is. I don't need
to get into ton of names with it, but that
is a big concept and it's complicated. How did you
go about that fairly succinctly? What was your Um? Were
your owner and your president and Chris and everyone organizationally
involved in such a big decision, or did it really

(35:08):
come down to you and Dan on this decision? Yeah,
that's a great question and, uh, I can go so
many different ways with it. I would say, just picking
up from the last point, that is it goes back
to the situation that Dan and I are and, uh,
you couldn't ask for anything better because from an ownership
standpoint and president, with Sheila and Rod, they truly are

(35:32):
all about hey, look, make sure that you have all
the resources that you need to do your job and
it is your decision, it is your job, and that's
kind of the approach that Dan and I took. You know,
rod is great and Rod is like, look, I'm here
if you want to ask any advice. Do you want
advice or anything? And but he's like, it's ultimately your

(35:53):
decision and you couldn't ask for anything better than that.
But it was a bit of a y'all. You couldn't
wrote a book or a story or script of a story.
I wouldn't have imagined in a million years that third
week on the job I'm making that trade with my
former employee with less need Um, you know, and they

(36:14):
so it was a lot of so many different emotions
were going through it, you know, through that whole process,
but at the end of the day, you know, you
just had to kind of stick to what you've learned
what you know, and I even bring it back just
blockbuster moves. You know, when you did the trade for Julio,

(36:35):
you know, that was the trade that really being in personnel.
I said, wow, that was a bold move and it
paid off. It's like, you know what, you can't be
scared and less brought that same that same thought process
to the rams of don't be scared, man, don't be scared,

(36:57):
to be bold. And he always says just leave the
results to the process, surrender the results of the process.
And that's pretty much all we did, is we were
just very thorough in their process in terms of the
teams that were involved, where we were at as a team, Um,
what we could get, what we thought we could get.
In respect to Matt, I mean that whole thing was

(37:19):
you just had to check every box in that but
at the end of the day, you know, I do
think it was a win win for both sides, but
I couldn't have thought of that happening on my third
week of the job. But Sheil and Rod Um, you know,
you know, I don't know, sometimes a negative connotation of
like Oh, are they meddling? and well, she's the owner

(37:41):
of the team, she can do whatever exactly. But at
the end of the day, that's what she's so great about,
is that she's like, look, it makes sure you have
everything you need to do and then let me just
let you make your decision. Trust you. That's a great point.
I mean it's her train set, no question, and it's
great to have something like that. As I understand, you
know from afar that she is very helpful and and accommodating,
which I had the same thing with, you know, with

(38:03):
Arthur blanket in Atlanta. I mean he was always there,
whether it was financially or whether it was providing at
so many levels, and that's an important thing. If you
if you'RE gonna make a go at it, which is
is very tough in this league, you better have the
support of your owner, no question about it. And and
and hopefully they give you the keys to let you
do what you need to do ultimately, and like you said,

(38:25):
no one wants to work in a in a meddling situation,
and obviously you're not in that situation. So let me
let me ask Um, I'M gonna jump to another tangent here,
if you could do one thing differently in those early
years prior to getting into the NFL. This is again
for the rising executive. What would you have done differently?

(38:47):
Would you have would you have studied different would you
have studied differently in college? Would you have gone to
a different college? Would you play different sports? Would you
have done anything different than those earlier formative years in
your career before coming to the NFL? That's a great question.
Looking at it now, I probably definitely would have carved
out the time to expose myself, Um to a lot

(39:11):
of different things, not just so strictly just scouting, like
just all I'm doing just scouting college players. I'm just
going to schools and but, like we talked about earlier,
I'm just trying to dominate my role. I'm trying to
be the best as I can in my role. So
at that age I'm thinking that's all you do. You
just gotta just deliver the best information, be the most

(39:34):
throwing your reports, do that. So that. But now what
I look at, we're talking about like the books and
like what I read and the information I absorbed in,
looking at other entities of how other corporations are ran
and leadership styles and like all that. I wish I
would have immersed myself deeper into that early on in

(39:54):
the process and there's no telling rob at this point.
But Um, that's one thing. That's a tough bout because
you're trying to be the best, you're trying to dominate
and make sure that you're doing as best you can.
But you know there's other things except is it just football?
It stuff that you can learn from so many different
entities that you can carry over and I've learned that now,

(40:17):
but I wish, I suppose the process. Well, that's that's
exactly right. Right. We are focused on trying to be
the best we can be at our job. That is
the number one thing. But I think when we really
step back and we look at it, we think there
are some pockets in our time. It could be during
the summer, of course, without a ton of time, it
could be at certain times when we are able and

(40:38):
I would say when I go back thinking about the
exact question, I would have made an effort to be
a lot more focused on the professional side of leadership.
I had this conversation with Steve Cannon, the CEO of
all of Arthur blank's business, formally with Mercedes Benz, and
he had said look, you guys, all of you who
have played football, where captains of your teams and presidents

(40:59):
and this and that, uh, you know, within high school
and college, and who have these natural innate leadership. There's
still an element that you need to learn and I
don't think I spend enough time. I just took it
for granted, like I have natural leadership ability. That's me.
I would suggest any younger people at any level, doesn't
matter what job they are within the NFL speaking that way,

(41:21):
or to anyone in in in sport, take the time,
whether it's at five day and symposium that you can
jump away to. It may cost you a little bit
of time and money. Those are the kind of things
that I would really focus on while you're working on
focusing in the season on what is right, because ultimately,
I would say to anyone in that building, and you
know this, I remember early on when I used to

(41:42):
ask people, you know who, who wants to be a GM?
You know, I want to be a college director, I
want to be a pro director or whatever. Nowadays got
two hands up. Everyone wants to be a general manager.
You know, I'm talking about them around the scouting room.
They have twenty guys in there. I'm like, wow, that's
not how it was when, when I was young, I
couldn't even for fear of some of the older boys
looking at me like, you know, want to tell me
you want to be a GM you shut your you

(42:03):
know your yeah, they're uh young buck right nowadays, everyone's
thriving like that's what they want. So to thrive in
this league. You know that. It's yes, you have to
thrive in your area. To your point, but I just
think continuing to grow is is such an importantly. It's
it hit me, Um, you know, just resid I've been
reading this book how to decide by by Andy Duke and, Um,

(42:25):
you know, Um, I really like her other book, thinking
invest but reading that in so I was reading. She
had a section about, Um, when you're trying to make
a decision and you know you've got two options that
are very, very close, and sometimes that makes you think
that that makes a decision hard and you kind of

(42:45):
drag time out and you gotta just, you know, take
more time in. She made a great point, is that
if the options are so close, it should be a
quicker decision. It should actually it should speed the process
up to make decision and it kind of brings me
back to draft day and you know Um was ecstatic

(43:07):
to land pine but if, if, if PA wasn't there,
you know, it would have been a tough decision on
on a cluster of players. But I look back at it,
I'm just reading, I'm looking back at and I said
really though, that shouldn't have been a tough decision. And
it looks back and I think about less. Need going
back to him again. He saw US talk about when

(43:27):
those players get in that tide of a cluster, you
just kind of just treat us like what fits best.
It's not a it's not a tough like well, it's
it's like, well, do you want to vacation in Paris?
Do you want to vacation in Rome? One of it's
like you want to go to Turks and K goes.
If you want to go to grand king, it's like, well,
you're not gonna be upset with either one, you know.

(43:49):
So it's just like well, what actually fits best for you?
So again it's just another another very recent example, past
couple of days actually, of just reading that and just
thinking back to draft day about like wow, when you
expose yourself to those other entities of knowledge or even leadership,
you know from a leadership sample. I hate to get

(44:10):
long winded because that's a great, great question, but I
never forget my dad bought me a weight set when
I was in the eighth grade and I never forget
he taught me says. He said it's not about what
you're doing when you're with your teammates and working out
and all stuff. It's about what you're doing when no
one else is looking. Like that's that, like that's what's

(44:31):
gonna matter. And I'm in the eighth grade, don't whatever,
twelve years old, and I I didn't really get it.
But when I was named captain, when I was told
I was captain of my football team, that's what I
was doing. I was running hills by myself, you know,
on a weekend where everybody went home, and that's my
coach told me that I was captain. And so then

(44:53):
it's like, man, that's that's you said by example, and
I remember, you know, like a lot of great mentors
and leaders that I've been under, they've all done things
by example. But that's just it was another, another point
that you brought up from professional leadership. That's like, well, okay,
I did learn do things by example. When you're doing

(45:16):
things that, when no one's watching, it's gonna bode well.
But then you learn things about what we're talking about earlier, feedback,
like how do you deliver feedback? I don't know how
to deliver feedback my first year as a college director,
but then I started exposing myself to other things and
learned okay, this is how you deliver feedback in the
right manner. So say to get along one of that.
But you brought up, you brought up some great points

(45:38):
that kind of took me to a lot of well,
I mean that idea of leading by example, and I
brings me back very quickly. And I'll add my own
little tidbit because I laugh at it now and I
think everyone should take this in the right way. But
I remember my dad was a coach during those years
earlier before he became a Scout, and I remember I
would have in my backyard I'd have six full size

(46:01):
red blocking dummies and I'm out there doing by the way,
I'm out there doing drills and agility drills and and
I'm out there for I don't know, an hour at
a time and every every day, while, quite honestly, some
of my friends were out smoking pot around the neighborhood
and here I am working hard to try to get
better at whatever I could do. And I and I
remember that being a funny little thing. I'm sure my

(46:22):
mom and my dad were looking from the window like
that's just that's just not right. He's doing, he's doing
bag drills out there. But I but, I. my point
was that I really wanted to differentiate and make make
a difference and set a you know, set some leadership.
Not It's not like I gathered the whole neighborhood in
there to watch me do my burials, but it was
something that I thought was important. So, Um, I would

(46:46):
that's right. That's right. So the League has come a
considerable way in the area of of diversity and inclusion. Okay,
I'd like your opinion on how far you truly feel
they've come and and comment on that a little bit
and and what maybe needs to be, you know, uh,

(47:08):
considered moving forward and where the Detroit lions are, you know,
in that topic. Uh, you know, as far as diversity
and inclusion, yeah, that's a great question. A lot of
different ways you can answer it. UH, from from a
League standpoint, uh, we're obviously not where we should be
at yet I do think that there's progress being made. Um,

(47:29):
you know, it's a lot. That's a lot of it
gets harped on on just the amount of blackhead coaches
that in the league and that is nowhere near, not
even close to word it should be at and that
process has to be improved. But you know, Um, something
kind of got overshadowed. Of three black gems got hired

(47:50):
to past sight of words. I do think that that
is you know, that is progress. Again, not to where
it should be, but you know, we're making progress, slowly
but surely. But we still got improved the process. We
still got improved the pipeline. Um, you know, we were
talking earlier about, you know, the college. You know the

(48:11):
college director going to GM and you know you look
across and says, well, look, man, there's not enough. You
know that diversity at the college director level. You know
there's there's more at the pro director level, but not
as a college director level. Definitely wasn't. Hardly any, very
scarce at that assistant GM Vice President, of Vice President

(48:32):
Player personnel, whatever that number two job is behind it.
Like we need to have more. We have more of
a process for that pipeline for those positions and you
have been more of a better process to increase the
diversity for those positions. Then I think that was strengthened
the pipeline for more diversity, at least at the GM.

(48:53):
I do think there's a lot of things being in
place with Um Ozik newsom had a great general manage
re form just recently. Um, there was a quarterback summit
that you saw a lot of diverse coaches at the
quarterback position that I was in amazement looking at and
I said, wow, I didn't really know a whole lot
about this guy, which was, I thought was an amazing
platform that was put by the League and from the

(49:15):
line standpoint, that is probably a numeral no. On top
of in terms of culture and diversity, that is huge
on the list from the top down. UH, Sheila is
huge on inclusion and dit diversity. It's one of her
number one projects. You know, we do have a culture
task force in place where we're doing all the necessary

(49:36):
steps to make sure that that's improved. You know, Um,
I was very appreciative that. You know, when they did
their interview search, that they opened it up to a
diverse field of candidates to allow people as myself to
have an opportunity and I don't I don't take that
that that lightly. Um. You Know My dad, he was

(49:57):
he he was an offensive lining back in the early seventies,
you know, played for the Pittsburgh seelers for a little
bit and he taught me at a very, very young
age he said, you know what, Brad Uh, it wasn't
invogue to have diversity on the offensive line and it
wasn't invogue to have blacks on the officie line, black
side quarterback. And then he's telling me that at a

(50:20):
young age, and so then you kind of see where
we're at. It Sus and so I take I take
a lot of pride in that to make sure it's
like what can I do in my end on my
part to see if I can increase that diversity and
just it's a shame that we're at the numbers that
we're at. And I think that to what my dad
was telling me back when I was a young kid,

(50:43):
just started playing pop warn of football, talking about what
he went through in the seventies. But I do think
that we're making steps. It's a little bit slow, but
I do think there's progress to be made. Very well articulated.
If I were to ask you, per the Detroit Lions,
who are your rising underrepresented stars right now, you think
on your staff? I definitely think Ray AG knew is

(51:06):
is definitely and I don't know you say he's a
rising star. I mean I think, Um, he's well known
around the lead just from his playing days but as
an executive, and his presence around the building is just
infectious and he just has a presence about himself that
people just gravitate towards him. He has a natural leadership skills.

(51:27):
You know, the football part is easy for him. You know,
he he knows how to he knows the game inside
and now he played at a high level. He was
a first round pick, he's won a championship. He's got
all that. But his presence in that building, his natural
infectious leadership in all different ways and his knowledge of football.
He's a man of faith. I truly think that he's

(51:49):
one that is definitely on his way. Um, I was
very fortunate to have him a part of it. Um,
you know, lance to newmark is another one that I
I think that you know, he does a great job.
I didn't really know him that that much. You know
when when I first got there, but he immediately showed
that he has those kind of qualities that, you know,

(52:12):
he can propel to, you know, wherever, wherever he desires. Uh,
Mike Martin, who just joined our staff, who I've known
for quite a while, he's shown just quickly and I've
known he's had the leadership trace, but now that he's
on our staff, now he just has that initiative, that intelligence,
that knowledge of football where I'd say he's another one

(52:33):
that definitely is well in his and quickly on Mike.
His position is scouting advancement. Yeah, and what can you,
in thirty seconds, describe what that is? I'm curious. Yeah,
you know, so it's a lot of process evolution in
terms of Um, you know, we have a lot of
different what we would say task forces, of different components

(52:54):
of our football operations department. So, you know, as long
as I've known Mike He's always been a big ideas
guy and you know, Um, we've always you know, we
used to be scouting place and said, I know it's
always been done like displayed down, what if we just
did that that day? And I'm like wow, that's a
hell of an idea. Yeah, and so then on so
many different areas and football operations you've had these conversations.

(53:18):
So when I was fortunate enough to actually add him
to the staff, that's why I said. I said, let's
make sure you're in a position to make sure that
you can dominate. And everybody has superpowers, Shire and I said, yeah,
he could be a director of college or Director Fro.
I go, yeah, you can do that, but let's put
you in a position where you can have those dynamic

(53:39):
abilities that you have to really help the franchise. That's possible,
and so that that's when I created a real point. So, Um,
this is a really important question because you and I
have this feeling and understanding of how important it is
to be balanced. You at a fairly young age. How
do you now forty or one when I got my

(54:01):
GM job, rather before? You know you're gonna be fifty five.
I just durned fifty five and I'm thinking, well, you
mentioned the grades and I feel like I have more
than you, and that's a good sign or not. You know,
I think it's all about just just knowledge, right, but
I've always been curious. It's it's a lot easier to
profess and and and and proselytize about about balance when

(54:26):
you have ten, eleven and twelve years under your belt?
Can you truly do that as a first time general
manager and tell your staff balance, balance, get to your kids.
Do you think you can with all consciousness, live a
balanced lifestyle early on, and not only you as a
GM but your staff, or do you think that's something
that you have to grow into over three or four

(54:47):
or five years? That's a great question, because we talked
about from an empathy standpoint, right always preaching my staff,
make sure you get to your kids, make sure they're like,
make sure no a family time interferes truly like missing
recitals and Games just because you missed we had a

(55:07):
scouting meeting. That like, let's make sure that that's done.
But I can't say that I've been truly practicing that myself, especially,
and I can only speak from these first six months
of being in the chair and quite frankly, I'd be
very can and honest. I don't I don't feel like
I I've had a lot of balance just because I

(55:28):
was so I'm such a preparation guy and I want
to make sure I'm prepared for every single phase and
I don't want to miss the mark on anything. So
I figured I'll never forget. I was talking to Ray
Agney one night and I felt we're in the office
till attending eleven o'clock at night, you know, during free
agency and draft, and I felt bad because I felt
bad for Ray, because I'm saying Ray's probably like I

(55:51):
didn't sign up to me in the Office to eleven
o'clock the night every night, but he understood what we
had to do. But it made me step back and
say that's not the way to go, man like. That's
like like, like, that's not the way to go, like
you gotta get home now. It was easier, a little
bit easier for me because me and because our families
weren't in town at the time. So it's a little,
a little bit easier, but at the same time you

(56:13):
have to find that balancing I was able to get
some R and R for the past couple of weeks finally,
and it really gave me perspective and reflection of that.
It is very, very important to have that or you'll
you'll burn out. I remember my my agent was telling
me when I got the job. You're saying, uh, you know,
you can't do this job longer than ten years. You

(56:36):
understand that right? And when you said that I didn't
understand what he was talking about. But then after going
through six months, I'm like now I see what you're
talking about. But that's why I have so much respect
and admiration for your tenure, how long you are and
I look at tenure that less is on track of like.
That is I do think. But I look at you

(56:57):
have balanced less like. I do think that plays a
part into it and talking to other GMS, Um, they've
all kind of said, you know, he look, it will
slow down. It's it's like a player. It's like a player,
a rookie. All this information has been thrown at you
and it's like the more you're in it goes talk
to slow down for you. So I'm looking forward to it. Um.

(57:21):
You know I want to keep it organic, but I
do think that's a great question. I think you can't
have balance. I think it's very important, but it's all
about how you're gonna design your process and how you're
gonna we talked about that. Ninety days to a hundred
days when you first start off. Well, I think that
second cycle of ninety and a hundred days of what
you learned in that first set, you can actually have

(57:43):
that balance in that second set, hopefully. My last comment
on that is if I look back in those early
two or three years especially, I believe I would have
been more mindful of balance, um in the areas, in
the time that you could truly have balance. So when
it's free agency time, we're there until eleven o'clock. But

(58:03):
in those times, and I think less has a really
good grasp, in those times when things are lighter, those
are the Times you really have to stress the time
for your people to get to their families, to get
out on their bikes, to climb the mountains they want
to climb, figuratively and literally speaking. That is important because
it makes them that much more appreciative of like it's

(58:24):
when it's time to go. It's draft time, it's free
agency time, man, it is it's time and we're ready
to go. So okay, I'm gonna ask them the final
question that I ask every one of the G MS
that I've met with this this offseason. And UH in Parens,
by the way, you don't have to answer the question.
My question, and it's a little bit of a tough question.
What is the one question that you feared that I

(58:45):
was going to ask you. It can be it can
be anything. And again, you don't have to answer the
question and you can wait and we can come back.
I can ask it again, because I've had people say,
you know, Brat Fach told me, man, if you asked
me about the the the Kentucky Derby, because I'm a

(59:06):
big he's a big horse, Guy said, and I didn't.
I picked said I was horrible. I was worried about
you asking about that and I've had, you know, other people.
It's kind of been a it's a little bit of
a so I'm not I can't say a fear. I
had the curiosity if you were gonna hit me historically
on something that I was more a novice and particular

(59:30):
area like the Kentucky Derby. You know, if you'd like,
I don't really follow the Kentucky Derby. So like remember
that Kentucky Derby Right when that and I don't really know. Yes,
and I would have been honest with you and let
you know that, but it was just a curiosity back
in the back of my mind. It was fearful. Um,

(59:50):
I would say I didn't know really truly what to
expect and I actually appreciate that. You know, I know
we've had communication, dialogue. I had a little bit of
an overview, but this has been awesome, it really has.
I really enjoyed, you know, to set up. Uh, you've
kept it authentic, man, you kept it organic, man, you know,

(01:00:11):
having good I appreciate it and that was a big
thing when I when I when I kicked this journey off,
I thought, you know, I am far from being Peter
King or Adam Schefter or Al Michael's or whoever it
may be. That's not my world. But what I really
wanted to do, back to empathy. I wanted to be,
you know, GM two, GM GM, the former GM. Now,

(01:00:31):
I can't believe I'm saying that after this many years.
This was the first time in almost thirty years I
wasn't in a draft room this fall. But but that
was important to me. I wanted to make sure that
we talked about things. It wasn't about, you know, the specifics,
about who you draft in the fourth round or who
your number five linebackers. I couldn't give a flip about that.
This was about bigger picture stuff that I think can
help a lot of people along the way. I honestly

(01:00:54):
believe this. This, this conversation like this, not only helps
the rank order, not only helps the middle management group
WHO's rising. I think it truly helps ownership and and
outside of this sport to other sports, where people are
able to listen to the human side of a general
manager and general managers in this league who have so
much to offer the insight of sport, but in business

(01:01:16):
in general. And I just really appreciate you taking the
time during a really busy time. You guys have your
coaches in tomorrow, you're kicking it off, and to spend
time outside that the Henry Ford Museum, with with the
Wonderful Melissa waiting for us and setting us up here.
I'm really excited about that. So, God bless man. I
really appreciate you. I can't wait to watch how your
career goes this role and it's I think we're heading

(01:01:37):
in the right direction. You know we're handing that football yet.
You know we hadn't played it down yet, but uh,
a role. Feel really, really good about the coach in
the direction that's in place and uh, I think I
think it's gonna be fun ride, man, it really is. Man,
I got a lot of belief, in faith in our
process of what we're doing, and we're gonna be good.
I was gonna ask you, like, now that you've had

(01:01:57):
time to do, to have a little bit more, if
you want to call it balance, or have you know
you can ride this like? Has It truly has it
truly hits you? Like? Man, I've been missing even family
time alone. Yeah, like you, you preach balance, like. Has
It really hitched like? Man, I've been missing this for

(01:02:20):
a while. Oh Yeah, man, I look to finish this
off and I know you have to go. I starts
with my kids, spending time with my kids. That were
you know, as a GM man, you have a lot
on your plate. We know that, and there are times
when I bring him up to the office and cart
him around different places. But to have true, focused time
with with my my two children, my son Mason and
my daughter a Genev, and with my fiance, Mimi, these

(01:02:43):
are really important things for me and I don't know
I had two years left on my contract. Thank you,
Arthur blank. I appreciate that. As much as it was.
It was dusty. I wasn't expecting it, but look, this
is this has helped me to be able to spend time.
You know, you've got a chance to interview with Arthur.
You know Arthur's humor and his his he's a good
soul and I appreciate that. To answer your question in

(01:03:05):
the very end. Look, I this was right. There's a
reason for it. After thirteen years, you said. A lot
of people say past ten years is tough. I remember
last saying talking to someone who I have a great
deal respect for, in bill polly, and he said, and
I remember hearing and then talking to him about he said, no,
you can't go past ten years. You've piste off the owner,
you've piste off the media, you've piste off the fan base,

(01:03:26):
you've piste off your your your the marketing and business side.
And I said all due respect, Mr Pollian, I mean
you're fantastic, but your generation was a lot more hardcore
and a lot more, you know, cantankerous and tough ass
and and direct. We're a little bit more politically conscious
here and hopefully, given that element of our personalities, we

(01:03:49):
can stretch this to three and four and fifteen years.
Maybe I came up at thirteen or just you know,
I call it thirteen just shy of thirteen and uh,
I appreciate that's a long time and now it's time
for made a step back and continue to learn. No,
and that that that is a really long time time.
It really is. And you know, you should be re
ever proud of the complimation success that you had, man. And,

(01:04:11):
like I said, I don't know, you know if you
remember a lot of the you know, the ant adults
and the stories that we would flecched with in this time,
but you know the warden school talk, like you know,
if you don't remember that, but that resonated with him.
You know that, Julio, that resonated with me. Everything is
that less said about you, about what I mean. All

(01:04:31):
those things resonated with me. So I really appreciate the opportunity. Um,
you know, you just brought up a great point about
with the family and the going back to the balance is,
you know, my kids are three and ten months and
they're at that, they're little, you know, and so trying
to trying to get home to right before they go

(01:04:53):
to bed and you're leaving before they get up and
sometimes you miss bed and so it seems like there's
days being in the same household, there's days that you're
missing and you know those kids. Man, sounds go as
fast as what everybody's saying and I'm noticing it before
my eyes. Man. But well, very, very end and I'm
saying the last thirty seconds on that point. If I

(01:05:14):
could do that over again, I would not add agitation
to my my presence when I wanted to get home
to them and someone was asking me. Nick Polk, who
have a great deal of respect for it, comes to
me with a big book and talk to me about
finance on the way out the door, and I'd be agitated.
I think you own your world, of course, and you're
going home to see your wonderful wife and your wonderful children.

(01:05:36):
There's a smile on your face and you're saying to Dissner, sorry,
we're not talking about this contract today. Have a great
night and do it with a smile and appreciation. Brother,
I really appreciate you. You have a great appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you all right. I hope you guys

(01:05:59):
enjoyed that. I'm mean again. Brad Holmes, what what a
really cool guy and a good soul. Like I said,
it was fun hanging out with him talking to him.
He was very, very humble about where he was, an
appreciative of where he was. And and look, this is
an important draft, second year in for a general manager,
you know, coming off of a year that was it was.
It was a tough year for them. Of course, even

(01:06:20):
though they didn't have a lot of wins, they made
some strides, but nevertheless it's tough. You know, the second
year has to be a market improvement. This is a
win now league. We know that and I'm very confident
that he's going to do the right things. Quite honestly,
I hope, you know, the President of that organization, Rod Wood,
and Chris Fielman, you know, one of the high up execs. Allow,

(01:06:42):
you know, Brad and and Dan Campbell to do their thing,
give them the keys to the organization and let him roll.
Those guys know football. I wish him all the best
in this this year's draft, and and from here, look,
you know, follow me. We're heading out west man, we're
going all the way out to the West Coast, San Francisco, John,
can't wait for you guys to jump on board and
listen to that one. Thank you so much for listening

(01:07:05):
and we'll talk to you soon. You have been listening
to the GM journey with Thomas demittrof continue to follow
Thomas as he interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams.
The GM journey has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas
Demittro and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to download and subscribe

(01:07:30):
on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcast from.
The GM journey is distributed by the eight side network.