May 14, 2022 • 45 mins
Thomas parks the van outside of Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City and sits down with Chiefs GM Brett Veach. Thomas and Brett discuss Brett's unique rise to the GM role and his relationship with coach Andy Reid.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Forward slash donate. All right, we just finished up in
Houston and rolled up into the Midwest, the Great Midwest,
(00:44):
into Kansas City to meet with redmage, the general manager
of the Kansas City chiefs. Welcome to the GM journey
with Thomas demittrop. Great story here. Fairly young in the business,
a lot of back ground in football with his dad
being in football and having a lot of uh interesting background,
(01:05):
not only as a personnel man but also as a coach,
coaching assistant, and had a great relationship with Andy Reid
and Philly. He became joint honestly Andy Reid's guy and
Andy One of him next to him when he came
to Kansas City, of course, and it all worked out very,
very well. They truly have put together something special in
(01:28):
Kansas City, and I like to say that literally. I
think I think Brett has the TRIFECTA there. I mean
he has he has a fantastic owner, one of the
very best owners in the country, he has one of
the very best quarterbacks, of course, and he's got one
of the very best coaches in the league, of a
potential hall of fame coach. I mean, that's what you
(01:51):
want as a general manager in this league and of
course he had some really great successes so far and
will continue to have him. I hope you guys enjoy
the right up there to Kansas City and the time
when Red Beach, Kansas City, m o Arrowhead Stadium. Right,
we're here, we're here. I'm so happy that you accommodated. Man,
(02:11):
this is great. Yeah, this is great. I'm excited to
be here and excited to spend time with you and
talk all the sports and and see little world's baseball.
Doesn't get better than that. I mean, there could not
be a better midwestern day for me. Um. So let's
let's start with this. Um. You've established yourself as one
of the very best young, and I say that respectfully
(02:32):
because you're you're in your forties now, but when you
started this whole thing you're in your thirties. As a
GM like that, that's amazing. Established yourself as one of
the outstanding professional in all professional sports general managers and
and I'm very impressed. How have you how you've navigated that?
How does it feel as well, to be historically the
youngest GM to ever win a super bowl? You know,
(02:55):
it's Um. It's funny. I think I remember getting on
the bus after we in that game um in Miami
against the Niners, and and Ted Cruz, our VP of PR,
had mentioned that to me about being the young GM.
But honestly, I don't think you ever spent that much
time even thinking about things like that. I mean, you
know as anyone as anyone, Thomas, that. I mean it
(03:17):
is such a massive operation and and to think about
what it takes to not just win games but to
win and win a super bowl, and having the ownership
and the president and then having a great coaching staff
and have great personnel staff. Um, I think in that
moment you think more about Um, more of a realization
of how lucky are to work with so many great
people and that, yeah, you're a part of that, um,
(03:39):
but the reality of it is, I mean it is
such a team effort to accomplish something like that. So, Um,
it sounds cool when you say it, but I don't
think you ever really pay much attention to that kind
of stuff. But we we grew up thinking about football,
playing football. Man, one day to be able to run
a team, that's like unbelievable to think about, and then
to actually hoist a trophy. Was that? Was that titled
(04:00):
Beside Your Name? To me is is it's huge. What
was the main leadership point you learned from that Super
Bowl season? I think, looking back on that, Um, you know,
one of the big things that we did before that season.
You know, we a thirt or four team. We had
we had a change come in with coach Spagnola to
a four three team. and Um, I think just that
(04:21):
mentality of being aggressive but in a calculated way. Um,
and then I think all stims from the relationships that
you have with the coaching staff and your personnel staff.
Just put the trust uh in those people that you
work with. Trust the process, trust the system and don't
be afraid, Um, to get up at the plate and
take some swings. Um. It's one thing that, you know,
coach has always reminded me when I got this job. Um,
(04:45):
you know you're gonna go out someday, so go out
on your own terms and, Um, you know, I think, Um,
that mindset and mentality helped us win and I think
if you look at what we did this offseason, you know,
with our offensive line, I think we kind of carry
that same mindset. So, you know, you only get one
opportunity potentially do something like this, so make most of
it and trust the people that, Um, that you're surrounded by.
I love that. That idea of not sitting on your hands.
(05:07):
I continue to talk about I know people get sick
and tired of me saying that. You know, back in
eleven we we did the Julio Trade. Without getting into that, like,
those are big moves across the league. They're happening a
lot more now and I love it. I think it's
it's what this league should be. Not flippantly. I think
most of the people have really well thought out plans
and they know their organizations. One of the things that
Bill Belichi used to teach me and I'm sure that
(05:29):
any has taught easiness over the years. You know your
organization better than anyone, right. I mean people can pop
off about what you should do and how you should
do it. In the end you know it better than anyone.
So obviously we're the ones that need to make the
decisions as general manages. You as one of me, as
a formal okay Brett Um, the dirty little secret in
my mind in the NFL, as great as the League is,
(05:52):
as supportive as it is, there are some jealous eyes
and and sort of envy and, uh come, petitiveness amongst
the peers. Right, let's call it the way it is.
And a lot of those guys are friends, a lot
of them are acquaintances, exponentially more. Again, when you're a
younger general manager, people look to you and they start thinking,
(06:13):
how did that happen? I remember I was getting calls
when I first got that GM job in Oh eight,
it seems like forever ago, and I had a lot
of that gray hair, but it's a long asshut. But
I remember. I remember getting calls from my friends. Are Saying, Thomas,
do you know this person, this person, this person, are
slamming you. They don't believe that you got this job.
It was an interesting thing for me to experience realizing
(06:34):
a lot of people just they want their opportunity. You
and I have been both blessed to have an opportunity.
What would you share with the young rising executive group
in this league to navigate that, to know that there
are gonna be a lot of hurdles and a lot
of people that are gonna try to take your knees
out on your way up? What would you share with them? Yeah,
(06:55):
I mean that's a that's a good question. Um, I
think part of it is just your overall mentality of
of the process and accepting that that's part of the territory.
I mean, look, it's the highest level football in the
world and it's the biggest sport in America. Um, it's
it's hard enough to get in this league, Um, let
alone survive in this league, and then you talk about
(07:17):
getting one of thirty two positions. So I think just
having the mindset of of of knowing, Um, just how
difficult it is to get these positions. There's gonna be
some natural jealousy and envy and that is part of
the territory. Um. But I think more importantly, like when
we go in our building every day, coach has, you know,
the sign, eliminate distractions and and really just more of
(07:38):
control what you can control, because the reality of it
is your ability to succeed and the success that your
team and organization has is solely dependent on the people
in that building and not the outside people. And maybe
you know, maybe you work with them, but the reality
of it is they're not gonna help you win on Sunday.
The people that you have in that building will. So
really control what you can. You can role and just
(08:01):
invest your time and your energy in cultivating those relationships
in your building and taking care of the people that
are gonna take care of you. So I think if
you just, you know, put the blinders on, uh control,
we could control and really Um, put all the resources into,
you know, cultivating that culture you have with your own staff.
Is is the way to go. It's a great point
and we can get spun off and it's just not
worth it right there's just it's not worth the energy
(08:23):
the time. So to that point, how are you about transparency?
So I've had these discussions with other people around the
League where I've wondered their stance on transparency within your organization.
I'm not talking outside, of course. I believe in making
sure that things are kept within. That's important. Do you
share when mistakes happen? Do you share when things could
(08:44):
have been done better by yourself as well? And I
remember back when I first got the job and less
need and Dave Callo were with me in the building
every time I did something wrong. Most Times I would
call him in, not every time. Most Times I'd call
him in. I'd say look, I mess this up, I
would never do a B and c again the way
that I did that. They were very grateful that I
(09:06):
spent time doing that. It's not easy all the time.
Do you have a stance on that? Do you think
you should be clear and clear with clear and concise
with your I think overall, I mean, you know, we
all have to identify talent and we have to manage
the cab and bring talent in here. But you know, Thomas,
you probably share the same mindset. I think that transparency,
(09:27):
uh and communication skills are absolutely the number one Um,
you know, quality that any good GM has. and Um,
because that builds respect and the fields trust and and
I think you know you're more likely to get um
or or to grow your building and grow your organization
through tough difficulties or through tough conversations that were done
(09:52):
through open transparency, and there's a lot more respect generator
for that as opposed to not telling anyone why you
did things or or not owning up the mistake. Um,
you know, our whole process and the way we do
things is all inclusive. So, Um, you know there's many
ways that scouts and personnel departments do things and and
you know, break them up into higher ups and and
(10:13):
Midlevel Scouts and little scouts. And you know, I listen,
I had a chance to work with Um, John Dorson
and Chris Ballard, and that was the one cool thing
that I learned from them when I came here that
they included me and everything, and I just felt like
I grew. I probably grew a certain amount in so
many years and then all of a sudden when I
was in room with John and Chris and they included me,
(10:35):
and it motivated you internally because, Um, they're gonna be
open and honest and they were gonna expect the same
out of you. But but I think it just it
fosters respect and trust and and and I mean all
across the board, so not just maybe a personal members contract,
but I mean even the little things like how you
do your parking and why you do things. Just the how,
(10:56):
the what, the where and the wise, I think is
that is explained and there's always open communication and transparency.
You mitigate so many Um hurdles along the way and
I think that at the end of the day, if
you're open, transparent and you have great communication with your coaching,
your ownership, your president, you're you're scouting staff members, you're
gonna eliminate so much wasteful time in that building and
(11:17):
just really get to the Um, to the important stuff
you know more clearly and and I think it just
makes the whole operation run more smoothly. Well said. I
mean that trust and respect factor is so important within
the building and we realized that right the longer that
we're in these roles and and you're you're just you're
thriving in it. Do you remember back to your very
first big trade slash move as a GM? Well, I
(11:41):
haven't been doing it that long, Um. So I was
in this position for two years and Um, the first
year was with Alex Smith, who made the trade that
first year with PAT right right. So my first year
with PAT UM, my second year, first year with Pat Um,
(12:02):
we had that big run and we made it SNFC
championship game. Came up just short. That's when we brought
in Steve and his staff and and you know, we
were kind of at a crossroads where we brought in
a new staff and we're trying to change the whole
scheme and we kind of hit a little dilemma with
D Ford. D Ford, as you know, it was a
great pass rusher and thirty four outside linebacker and Um.
(12:24):
This is where the open communication, that transparency comes into play.
And Stephen I had a lengthy conversation um about the
great player and great edge rusher Um for my scheme
and and playing reduced more, Um having to take on
a lot in regards to, you know, run responsibilities, and
he just said I just worry that, although he's an
elite pass rusher and he's a great thirty four Otside Linebacker,
(12:47):
for what I want to do here, it's it's gonna
be hard to get what a franchise tag would warrant
in regards to production. Um. So you look at the
landscape and then you're in a tricky position because you're
picking Third D and there's not always you know, this
is old linemen tackles DNS. They're off the board by
by ten fifteen. So you're kind of looking at what's
(13:08):
out there. And then all of a sudden, you know,
you start making some phone calls and you have an
opportunity to touch base with Seattle on Frank Clark and Um.
So I remember going through that process and and just
so much communication with Steve And the vision and the
goal and making sure we're all on board with this
and having the same mindset. And then Andy popped by
(13:28):
the office one day and kind of said, Hey, where
are we? What are you thinking with this Frank Clark things?
And I said well, you know, if I didn't have
a good feel about this, we wouldn't be this far along.
And he said, listen, you do what you want, but
at the end of the day, man, you're here because, Um,
you've got a great feel and you got, you know,
great good instinct. Just go what you feel, man. You know,
Piss on everything else. You know, let it roll how
(13:50):
you feel. And I remember after that conversation, Um, you know,
and it wasn't anything like I want to do it
or don't do it. It was trust your ut you're
in this position because I trust you. Now you trust
yourself and let's just, you know, go with what your
your instincts tell you. And it was, you know, maybe
a day later too, I call my my my staff
(14:11):
and I said let's roll, let's just do this and
and and, you know, worked out and we were able
to to Um to make the super bowl and it
was cool to see frank at the end of that
game get a sack there. So it was it's kind
of a a pretty cool process there. But you know, it
just goes back to how we all worked so well
together and there's a trust and and the you know,
the people are constantly reinforced on a daily basis of
(14:32):
their value to the organization and why you're there. You're
you're in there for this specific reason. And again, just
that little reminder. Coach, you know, bump me. It's like,
I don't I'm not telling you what to do. You
know you're the GM now, but trust your gun man.
I love that. I mean that's that's the reassurance, right
with a guy like Andy Reid, of course, and an
organization that believes in that. I think it's so important.
A little aside. When my first one, interestingly enough, you'll
(14:54):
get a kick out of this, was an oh eight.
I just get to Atlanta and the first person that
we are looking to deal, and he's on NFL network,
so he's gonna probably be piss telling the story, was
D'angelo Hall. It was like we we, we have to
move d' Angelo. It was just we're gonna make that move.
So my first deal was with Al Davis of all people. Right,
ne a fight general manager. I'm thinking, my God, I
(15:14):
gotta Call Up Al Davis. So call him up, you know,
we do. Okay, we have the conversation. We Trade D'Angelo
hall at that point for a second round. Two weeks
later I get a call from quote. I want my
pick back, like and I didn't know what to do.
I thought, can you do that? And he said I'm just,
I'm just rasing you a young boy, and it was
(15:35):
just kind of one of those things that I thought,
Oh my God. The interesting thing was trying to, you know,
get my feet underneath me in those early, early moments
as a general manager, because you're learning on the fly,
right you're trying like crazy to keep your head above
water in those especially that first year. For me, it
was a year one and two. As I started getting
my head above water, I started seeing a lot more things,
(15:58):
interestingly enough, that I didn't really feel comfortable with. And
that's where it became more complicated. By the way, I
always thought that it was gonna get easier as I
started getting the double digits as a GM get harder.
It's it's complicated. So you did a really good job
over those years to impress upon this organization, uh, the owner,
the ownership family and and and Clark Hunt and Andy
(16:18):
Reid and and everyone else. Um, and you positioned yourself
and differentiated yourself from others who might have been up
for that job. I don't know how that went down.
What can you share again, with that young rising executive
group or people that are right in the verge? How
did you differentiate yourself within this building? What did you
truly do to step out? Yeah, I think, Um, I
(16:40):
think I was just able to maximize each and every opportunity.
I think that and you have this is Thomas. I
mean this is a competitive league. Obviously it's a competitive
business and I think that attracts competitive people. Um, I
think it's a natural inclination and you've probably been there.
I know I've been there where I had to catch myself.
(17:01):
But you come in and you think, I just want
to work in the NFL. Right. So you get in
the NFL and you're like, I just want to be
a scout, and then you're scouting. Then you say I
just want to be a director, I just want to
be a GM Um. But I think those goals are
great to have and you have to have them Um,
to inspire you and to keep you motivated and keep
you going. But I think I've always been able to
(17:24):
just maximize the moment and, you know, detail the work
in that moment. And I think what you've come to
realize is the stuff that I'm finding most useful now
was the stuff I learned when I was basically an intern,
and that's just people, communication skills. So like, and I
(17:44):
tell this to our our young interns every year, like
these are this is the foundation of your ability to
succeed and grow in this business and it's it's these
moments here. And I think you know, I'm not that
young now, so I can look back and and you know,
the relationships I as an intern, being a liaison to
(18:05):
the trainers, the equipment people, the video people, knowing that,
you know, we're not any more important than them. And
you know sometimes people have these preconceived notions. Well, you know,
they were this, they're that. No, like everyone has a
part in this and you gotta treat those people with
respect and those people buster tails just like you do.
And I think when you're an intern and you see
(18:25):
how hard those people are working on the side, you're
able to carry that through and and learn that. You'RE
gonna take that from this experience. And then I'm gonna
take the struggles as a road scout, being in a
hotel by myself and no one's around, and then you're
gonna take, you know, the difficulties of communicating, communicating with
the the coaches on pro advances. So I think I've
(18:46):
been able to do a lot of different things, but
I think I've always had that mindset to not get
caught looking so far ahead where I'm missing out the
learning in what some people think, well, that's not an
important job, but there are really valuable, important tools that
you're gonna end up realizing we're more important than a director.
(19:08):
And and again, I think now I'm able to communicate
things so um efficiently because I've had those experiences in
the relationship I have with the Rick Burke holder or
now and the writer equipment guy. Um. It's one of
those things where, Um, I just think as a young
guy starting out especially, Um, you know all these guys
(19:29):
are competitive. Um, keep those goals, always work to achieve
those goals. Um, but never sell yourself short on the
current position, no matter, even if it's not something you want. Yes,
just maximize it, make the most of it, because you're
gonna find out that that's gonna be the most beneficial
probably job and it's gonna lay the foundation. It's gonna
put you where you need to be ultimately at the
end of the day. So it's a it's an interesting
(19:50):
juxtaposition of being where you are and focusing on where
you are continuing to thrive. One of the other mixes
mixed in is is you have to be very mindful,
of course, of your team as well. Right. You can't
be that person that comes in and just like a whirlwind,
taking everyone out just to get to the top. There
has to be a team element and I've always believed
that some people do a really the good ones do
(20:12):
a really good job at keeping that in perspective. While
they're climbing, they're keeping things cool, keeping the team together.
I think you obviously have a really good, good feel
for that. You've had the speaking of doing good and
you've had the good fortune of being around a head coach,
one of the best in the League and the history
of the League and an all around great guy, great soul.
(20:33):
You have an experience being around Andy Reid and you
see how it is at the top to to build
an organization. If I were to ask you, humbly, and
I say humbly two provide advice for a group of
owners that were to be here and and they were
looking for like what is the ticket and what is
the key to having now the operation at the top
(20:55):
of the football organization thrive? What do you think, excinctly
or not so succinctly, as that is a key to that,
if you were giving them advice, I'm probably not the
best person to ask that question because you know, in
many ways I've been spoiled Um being with coach my
entire career, from an intern uh to an in house
scouting assistant, Area Stout and so on and so forth.
(21:16):
So Um, I and I think this is probably the
main reason why why I am successful, is because, you know,
on one end you could have looked at my starting
my career as a young GM, but as a first
time young GM I had ten years of prior experience
working with coach read. So just that general concept of
of having a rapport where that again, we're gonna say
(21:39):
that a thousand times today, but that trust. I know
what's expected of, you know, the head coach, Um and
knowing the responsibilities, just having that prior report. And I
think if you just take a look at the League
of of of sustained success over the years like John
Snyder and Pete Carroll and Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlind and,
(22:00):
I don't think that just is just it's a fluke.
I think these guys, I think the GM knows what
the coach wants. I think, you know, the coach knows
how to articulate what he wants with the GM. I
think there's Um, the collaboration, um the culture. The trust
is there and you know, coach and I are to
the point now where we get into an off season
(22:23):
and he'll be in there dice in a place for
next year and he'll just tell me, hey, let me
know what we're doing, let me know what you think
and I'll come in and here's what we're thinking. For
to say, all right, let's roll Um. And now he
can focus on the things that he really wants to do,
and that's draw plays and and and have pat my
homes out there scoring touchdowns every possession, and he doesn't
get bogged down with the stuff that at this point
(22:44):
in his career, he really doesn't want to do anymore. Um.
But there's an understanding that trust and it's it's tricky
because a lot of times ownership is working with a
GM to hire coach and or ownership is working with
a coach to hire GM. Um, if there's no prior report,
I think it's different. Well, I think in many ways. Um,
I don't think you'll find, I realized that our setup
(23:06):
is a little bit unique. I don't think that you
find success or find readily find good gms and good
coaches that have ten years of prior experience. Um. But
I think there should be some sort of Um mindset
for that ownership group to look for, Um, similar ideologies
(23:28):
and how you build a team and what's important and roster,
construction and the culture and that all intertwines with the
city you're in and what's important to that city and
how everything kind of works in one Um cohesive deal. Um,
it's unique. Again, I'm probably not the best person I
asked that question because I've been spoiling and I've been
with coach for so many years, but I definitively know
(23:49):
that the reason why we've we've been successful is because
we've already had a pre existing relationship and the trust
was already there from day one and we didn't have
to work to grow and go through the using seasons
and to figure out who we're gonna blame. We knew
what was expected and I think that's enable us to
get off to, you know, a hot start from from
the get go. Well, your your organization, you and your
(24:12):
relationship with Andy is so admired around the league and
I think coveted. Quite honestly, a lot of people are
looking at that, at that relationship and the understanding that
the two of you have in the respect that you
have for each other. Back to that, to your to
what your your art is and your your expertise is
is really appreciated by Your Coach by the coaching staff
(24:33):
is really important. This is usually when I delve back
into the history that you and I might have in
this league. And you and I don't have a long history,
but we have history where we've we've spoken over, you know,
over the years about this or that or about, you know, topics,
your insight, you're intelligent. Your opinion, I appropriate opinion, I
love I think it's it's it's really sound and I
(24:55):
think there are a lot of people in this league
that can learn a lot from you. Your your perception
is wide range and I appreciate that. With that as
a backdrop, what over the next five to ten years
are you encouraged about with regard to the League? And,
on the flip side, what in the next five or
ten years are you the most concerned about? I would
(25:17):
say for that question I might use Um, the same
topic to Equally Express, Um, my encouragement and also some concern.
I would say that, Um, obviously our sport is it's
a big deal and it continues to get bigger and
bigger and bigger. Um, one of the cool things about
our sport is it has such a unique connection with
(25:39):
the fans and it allows the fans to feel like
they are part of of the family, and social media has,
on one end, done some remarkable things for players and
for this league. And talk about connecting fans and having
the fans feel more connected to the players. They get
(25:59):
to see it that, you know, um the players behind
the scenes. The players get to express themselves. Um. It's
a cool time to be a player because they now
have Um more power than they've ever had. Right. They
can market themselves. They could um endorse other players, endorse
other coaches. Um Again, the marketing aspect. Most importantly, which
(26:21):
should be most important, their charitable um endeavors, that they're
in things that they're really passionate about in their community.
They have a great platform to Um, you know, work
on that message and to deliver that message the thousands
of thousands of people. I was joking with one of
the staff members on my team that think about it
(26:42):
like this, like if you have a six or seventh
round draft selection out of nowhere, Le's just say, an
undrafted free agent, and he makes your team and the
season is over and now he wants to do this
Um local charity football, then that's a pretty cool deal.
UNDRAFTED free agent, maybe from a small town in Arkansas. Um.
So we tweet said well, now he has the ability
to get that out there two thousands of people and
(27:04):
that's cool and it gets his message out there. What
he what he's passionate about, connects the fans what's important
to him. But now all of a sudden he makes
our team and Pat Mahomes retweets that. Now all of
a sudden that two thousand follower, undrafted free agent who
has a great message, Um, and he hits tweet and
(27:26):
it gets seen by two thousand people. Now of a
sudden you throw in the five or six or seven
million now all of a sudden. So that is a
really cool aspect of this league and and how it's
growing and how social media and electronics and technology is
taking this Um to unprecedented levels. And we're not just
talking about here in America but globally. I mean, you know,
(27:47):
we're a permanent picture now in England and and we
had a great experience playing in Mexico and the fans
um down there were amazing. So as social media becomes
bigger and bigger and bigger, players get more and more
um of an opportunity to market themselves again, their product
um their vision for how they want to help the
(28:08):
city and their charitable such a great thing. At the
same time, I think we've all seen this over the
past year that while that is a powerful, you know,
Um tool for these players and it's it's really exciting
for the leak to grow and to connect the fans,
at the same time we've seen over the past year, Um,
(28:28):
how device of social media can be and you have
the negative impact of social media. And so while you
have the ability to market yourself and talk about your
charitable contributions, there's that also aspect of social media where
you have, um, the fan breakdown of the game and
when you have a young player that maybe struggle, maybe
had a bad game on Sunday, and we've this younger
(28:51):
generation has grown up to be attached to their mobile
devices at all times. So now they play a game
and game didn't go so well right and they're reading
you suck, you suck. Trade, trade, trade. But on one
end you'd like to think that you know these guys
have been through, you know high school and college, they're
big boys, you know they can take it, but at
(29:11):
the end of the day, and we all are, we're
all human, and it it affects people in different ways
and I think if you we've seen how device it
it can be. I think we've also learned over the
last two years the role of mental health. So I
think that that's the technology and the social media aspect.
Finding that perfect balance, I think, is so critical because
(29:33):
our players, and I see it, and I tell coach
to read this, every day I come in that locker
room in the morning before Oh t a s and
I look in the locker room and every player is
down here and they're refreshing the twitter and they're reading
and again, they can use that and they can market
themselves and they can really promote some great things and
and bring fans in and sell the sport and that's great,
but at the same time, you know, it's our obligation
(29:54):
as the staff to, you know, to spend time, money
and resources in, you know, to how coaching these young
kids on that proper balance and and and and how
you pull away from that stuff because, you know, I
think a lot of these players that that don't achieve
success nowadays I think they just get so self consumed
(30:14):
with other people's opinions and it's because they've been so
much time spend so much time on their phone and
it it is an addictive device and it could be
controlling and Um. So I just think that, you know,
it's it takes a lot of Um planning to really
you know, because these kids are on these paths. I
see with my kids. I come home and they're on
(30:35):
their paths and you've got to pull them away and
it's tough. And then all of a sudden, now that
pad that they're so attached to um becomes their source
of of of news and sports updates. And then when
you're playing at this level and people are comment constantly
commenting about you, you can't tell me it doesn't have
a psychological impact, even if you're Tom Brady. Maybe not
(30:56):
Tom Maybe not, maybe not, maybe not Pat Mahomes, but
I mean for a listen, players, it's going to impact
them in some way. Sleeping Patterns, eating, eating habits, Um,
you know, their focus on a day to day basis.
So I really think that, you know, we're gonna have
to continue to spend time and resources into, you know, helping,
help educating this younger generation and how to balance all
(31:19):
of this technology and to be able to put it
down and to just clear the mind and focus on
what's most important, so proper balance and technology, and we
don't have to spend deep into this. Suffice to say, then,
do you have a stance and do you have a
feeling about being on the front end of the curve
regarding emerging technologies, whether that is an athletic performance? Again,
(31:40):
we don't have to go into major details or statistical
analysis where the League is going. Do you think you
should be a little more reactive and contemplative, or are
you a front end of the curve? Let's see what's
out there? Technology was, as it pertains, your football team? Yeah,
I think every I think every organization, every team, is different.
I think that we drive to be on the forefront
(32:01):
of assessing functionality. So it doesn't make sense for us
and and look some things and some procedures may make
sense for Philadelphia or Atlanta, but it may not make
sense for us. Right. Um, some of the you know,
things that I think people don't consider sometimes is when
you talk about analytics, Um, there is there are databases
(32:23):
and there are manpowers and hires. Now some staffs have
six people and they invest in machinery that's needed to
run all this stuff and some teams have it. Some
teams don't have it, but I think that we always
want to do what's best for our organization. I think
it's important for us to to know what's out there. Two,
you know, see if it makes sense for us, uh,
to sense the functionality of how it works. We certainly
(32:45):
integrate analytics. Um You know, there's those teams that are
bigg in analytics, teams that kind of use it as
a complementary source of information, the teams that don't use
at all. I would say we're in the middle there.
I think we understand the value of analytics and we
know that it could be certainly have a compet of
the advantage, but at the same time I don't think
we're rushing out there to buy every newest and latest thing.
(33:05):
Um You know, some of these things need I mean
you need proper sample sizes and some of these latest
and greatest Um you know, analytic studies come out and
and after a while you realize that when you look
back on the data, didn't really give you exactly what
you thought it did. So there's an element of patients,
I think. But more importantly, what do you have? Um,
the budget and the manpower to really handle and utilize
(33:27):
the right way. So I mean, yeah, we could. We
could wax plantic forever about what's going on in the
league that way, and there's a lot of discussions there
at the league level. General Manager's Advisory Committee, the League
office is always talking about what's next. Where do we?
Where do we appropriately, you know, delve into certain areas,
which is again fascinating for me thinking about the future,
the future of our league right now and where you
(33:49):
are as a general manager. This is probably the time
that I'd like to to segue into diversity and inclusion.
Do you have a thought, in a stance once again,
on where we are as a league? We're making strides
and yet we still love quite a ways to go.
What are your thoughts about that and how do you
feel your organization is operating under under that sort of guidance? Well,
(34:14):
I mean to the question itself, I think that's where
we are. I think that we've we've made some Um,
some significant movement over the last five or ten years,
but I think we can all agree that we're not
where we need to be and we have to continue
to strive and be better. Um, you know, we certainly
take a lot of pridor in Kansas City, um in
in in fostering opportunities and and being completely inclusive and
(34:37):
and you know, we know that, or at least the
way I look at this is, is that we just
have to continually do a great job of maximizing opportunity
for diversity, and I think that's what you really at
the end of the day. I think when anyone's making
a higher they want to hire good people, but they
also want to hire people that they're comfortable with, the
people that they've seen. Um, doesn't matter what color they are,
(34:58):
where they came from. And for us to take a
step back and realize, well, how do we, um make
this all inclusive and how do we promote diversity? We've
got to start at the grassroot level and we have
to continually have opportunities for internships, for fellowships, have these
people in our building, Um see how they interact, work
with our staff, how much responsibility can handle. And I
(35:19):
mean shoot, Thomasin's I've been here, I think every year
that format has worked for us and whether that Um.
You know, Ryan pouls has come up through that system
before I got here and we see how how far
he's risen. But just in the last few years. Great
Castillo want son has been in here and been an
intern and worked his way up. Young kid by the
name of Jalen Maerk has has, a local kid, Um,
(35:41):
came out of nowhere, when it's a volunteery, did and
all of a sudden we're like wow, this kid is unbelievable,
and that's all you need sometimes these kids just see
an opportunity to just show you what they can do. Well,
if we're not constantly providing that at the grassroots level
and having these fellowships and internships and you know, we'll
never get to experience their work ethic firsthand. And I
think once you do that, Um, you know what a
(36:01):
what a great set up for an organization to have
that type of diversity. And, like I said, we take
a lot of pride in that and, Um, we're very fortunate.
We feel, like, you know, uh, scouting staff wise, from
top to bottom, that we have it all covered and
we have just phenomenal people from top to bottom. All right,
so a couple more questions before we finished the interview. Um.
One is, when I look back and step back and
(36:25):
look at your situation here, I do believe you have
a trifactor you have a great owner in Clark Hunt,
a great head coach and historic head coach in Andy Reid,
and one of the best quarterbacks in the league. That
is that's unbelievable when you look at that, that whole
group together, and you start thinking about the positives and
what they have brought to you again in your leadership ability.
(36:48):
Let's jump over to the owner for a minute. If
you were to pinpoint one salient element to Clark Hunt's
leadership style and leadership sort of Um lessons, what would
they be? Well, I think what what stands out motion
talk about Clark is is just the passion for the
city in this organization. Um, I think it's really cool that, Um,
(37:12):
you get to work for an owner that this isn't
a hobby for him. Right, this isn't I have some money,
I want to buy a team. I mean it is Um,
just draped in in history and tradition. Um, I mean shoot,
his father named the Super Bowl. The F C championship
is named Lamar Hunt. Um, this is not just a hobby,
it's a passion and he carries Um, that tradition and
(37:35):
that legacy with so much respect and he really motivates
you to be detailed in every aspect. Everything that has
to do with the chiefs is important. Um, not just
your first round draft pick, not just extending Pat Mahomes,
um every level at in every um part of this
(37:56):
building is important to him and I think that has
you do it has you take a step back and
and just really focus on detail and everything. And if
you detail the small things, the bigger things come Um.
And I never go into a meeting, you know, when
you meet with the owner. I mean you're so buttoned up.
But I mean Clark will will pick out the most
(38:16):
miniscule detail and you will think that Um, you'll read
it a thousand times and won't pick it out and
then you know Clark will see it and it'll be
the first thing he notices. But Um, he just forces
you to be perfect and and and, but he does
so in in in such a caring way where, Um,
he truly cares about the people. Um, he cares about
the tradition, he cares about the city. Um, and it's
(38:38):
just he has uh, and it doesn't seem like it
because Clark is a very mild mannered person, but in
his own unique way he has a very infectious way
about him. Where you can just tell the amount of
of pride he has forest father, for the legacy, for
the chiefs Um and it's just super motivating and it's
I think it's a really cool experience to have the
opportunity to work for for not just are but this,
(39:00):
certainly this, this risch family history. I think it's it's
just one of the newest experiences that anyone in our
positions could ask for. Well, I mean again, having the
opportunity to be around such successful people just so good
for you as you're evolving into the position and, like
you said, you're not as young as you used to be.
I say that jokingly because we're you don't even do
(39:21):
you have one gray hair? Have I definitely have something,
but you stay. You do have fun as well. You
do believe in some life balance and which let's talk
very quickly about the hobby element. You like the ponies
and you like Nascar. Is there any is there any
parallel there to sort of building and being around those
hobbies in football, or is it just a hobby purely?
(39:43):
You just love it? But I certainly think the horses
and the horse racing, I think it kind of feels
that competitive drive and desire when you're away. Um, it's
funny because you're supposed to take that time to step
away from the game and but you find yourself constantly
wanting to to challenge yourself. And I think there's a
lot of similarities in horse racing. Um, there's a lot
(40:04):
of parallels to Um, both pro and college scouting. I
mean you're looking at pedigree and you're looking at track
biases and you're looking at weather conditions and you're looking
at workout history of horses and Um, I just think
that you know horse racing, you know, since I was
a kid. Now, Um, I was you know, I grew
up Pennsylvania and you know, my grandfather, Um, passed away
(40:25):
a few years ago, but we had basically a routine where,
you know, you would do sports all week and then
you'd hit church in the morning, you'd hit Brunch at
at his house and then he would put in his
car and drive you forty five minutes to Um, to
Penn national and you'd watch horse racing from twelve to five.
And I did that my entire youth growing up. You know,
almost every Sunday I'd be at the track. So, Um,
(40:45):
I kind of fell in love with that. And then
when you get into this line of work you kind
of see the similarities and that you know you're you're
scouting the racing forms and you're doing the homework and
you're you know, the lineage of the Horse and and
you know, there's his horses. He you know, can you
get mile and a half? Is He? Is He more
of a sprinter? Um, what kind of pedigree does he have?
Does he like the dirt? Does he like the grass?
Does he like a sloppy track? So there's just a
(41:07):
lot of factors that I think you know, Um, and
one of these is I'm gonna get a horse. And
and you know I have a great relationship with Mickey
Loomis and you know Mickey's Um, certainly the vincent family
that they have. Um, they've bred horses and they've had
a lot of success and and Um, I used to
joke with Mickey all the time. I said, Mickey, when
(41:27):
we when when I win a super bowl, I rememver
fortunate H and blessed when a super bowl, I said,
I want to go in with you and I want
to get a horse and I want to do the
whole thing. And so then he called me after we won.
Now the covid thing took over and we couldn't do it.
But it's funny now we joke all the time. You know,
Mickey will call uh during the o t a s
or during the point period and I never start the
conversation with anything other than you find a Horse Shit.
(41:49):
You know, that's what I always start with him and
and he always tells me he's looking, he's looking, but
uh Um. But Mickey and I show that kind of
bond together. But I just think it's a fascinating sport
and it's kind of it's a good release for me,
yet still get some of that competitive side. I love that.
And Mickey, by the way, it's a great mentor to
have that way. And I called him to Godfather and
our interview conversations a couple of weeks ago. He didn't
like that and they said that's when you're old and Crotchety,
(42:11):
and I said no, that's not the case. Last question
I ask everyone this if there was one question that
you feared I was gonna ask, and you don't have
to answer it, by the way, and friends, what would
it be? If you would have asked me if I
pick the correct win of the Kentucky Derby, because I'm
supposed to be a horse expert. I would tell you
a true story of the Horse I told everyone was
gonna win. I think finished, I want to say, seventeenth
(42:33):
out of twenties. So you know, I think that that
this qualifies me as as a horse expert. But I'm
glad you didn't. Didn't go into my record. I'm a horseman,
but I'm glad you didn't go into my record and
and Um, you know, if you wanted to see the
you know, the the awards on the wall. I don't
have many of them because I've lost more than I've won,
but I just enjoy it. You know, thoroughly enjoyed this.
Thank you again. I know we're moving up to watching baseball,
(42:56):
but I feel like I could talk to you all night.
I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you all right. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed
the time with Brett beach. As you can see, very
insightful and and honestly wise beyond his years. What a
great opportunity he's had there and that's what we all want.
(43:18):
Right get your foot in the door, make the best
of your opportunities and obviously Brett Beach has done that.
Of course, from there we're jumping across the country, a
little bit over to Buffalo, and what's really interesting about
it is brandon bean and one of my favorite guys
in the League. I really, really like his his story
and his journey coming from more of the financial side
(43:41):
jumping into football and becoming really versed in this sport. Um,
on a side note, of course, when I was in
Kansas City with the beach I did not jump into
the barbecue there. Really wasn't in that mode. And Uh,
but when I got to buffalo for the very first
time in thirty years, that's not an exaggeration, I broke
(44:02):
my carnivore rule and literally threw a wing in my
mouth or two, and I did it all in the
spirit of making this show the way it should be,
you know, sort of a journey. So my journey into
eating chicken wings after many, many years on the wagon
ended and I did it with my good friend Brandon
(44:23):
being in Buffalo. You have been listening to the GM
journey with Thomas demittrop. Continue to follow Thomas as he
interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey
has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demittro and Octagon Entertainment.
(44:46):
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
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Forward slash donate. All right, we just finished up in
Houston and rolled up into the Midwest, the Great Midwest,
(00:44):
into Kansas City to meet with redmage, the general manager
of the Kansas City chiefs. Welcome to the GM journey
with Thomas demittrop. Great story here. Fairly young in the business,
a lot of back ground in football with his dad
being in football and having a lot of uh interesting background,
(01:05):
not only as a personnel man but also as a coach,
coaching assistant, and had a great relationship with Andy Reid
and Philly. He became joint honestly Andy Reid's guy and
Andy One of him next to him when he came
to Kansas City, of course, and it all worked out very,
very well. They truly have put together something special in
(01:28):
Kansas City, and I like to say that literally. I
think I think Brett has the TRIFECTA there. I mean
he has he has a fantastic owner, one of the
very best owners in the country, he has one of
the very best quarterbacks, of course, and he's got one
of the very best coaches in the league, of a
potential hall of fame coach. I mean, that's what you
(01:51):
want as a general manager in this league and of
course he had some really great successes so far and
will continue to have him. I hope you guys enjoy
the right up there to Kansas City and the time
when Red Beach, Kansas City, m o Arrowhead Stadium. Right,
we're here, we're here. I'm so happy that you accommodated. Man,
(02:11):
this is great. Yeah, this is great. I'm excited to
be here and excited to spend time with you and
talk all the sports and and see little world's baseball.
Doesn't get better than that. I mean, there could not
be a better midwestern day for me. Um. So let's
let's start with this. Um. You've established yourself as one
of the very best young, and I say that respectfully
(02:32):
because you're you're in your forties now, but when you
started this whole thing you're in your thirties. As a
GM like that, that's amazing. Established yourself as one of
the outstanding professional in all professional sports general managers and
and I'm very impressed. How have you how you've navigated that?
How does it feel as well, to be historically the
youngest GM to ever win a super bowl? You know,
(02:55):
it's Um. It's funny. I think I remember getting on
the bus after we in that game um in Miami
against the Niners, and and Ted Cruz, our VP of PR,
had mentioned that to me about being the young GM.
But honestly, I don't think you ever spent that much
time even thinking about things like that. I mean, you
know as anyone as anyone, Thomas, that. I mean it
(03:17):
is such a massive operation and and to think about
what it takes to not just win games but to
win and win a super bowl, and having the ownership
and the president and then having a great coaching staff
and have great personnel staff. Um, I think in that
moment you think more about Um, more of a realization
of how lucky are to work with so many great
people and that, yeah, you're a part of that, um,
(03:39):
but the reality of it is, I mean it is
such a team effort to accomplish something like that. So, Um,
it sounds cool when you say it, but I don't
think you ever really pay much attention to that kind
of stuff. But we we grew up thinking about football,
playing football. Man, one day to be able to run
a team, that's like unbelievable to think about, and then
to actually hoist a trophy. Was that? Was that titled
(04:00):
Beside Your Name? To me is is it's huge. What
was the main leadership point you learned from that Super
Bowl season? I think, looking back on that, Um, you know,
one of the big things that we did before that season.
You know, we a thirt or four team. We had
we had a change come in with coach Spagnola to
a four three team. and Um, I think just that
(04:21):
mentality of being aggressive but in a calculated way. Um,
and then I think all stims from the relationships that
you have with the coaching staff and your personnel staff.
Just put the trust uh in those people that you
work with. Trust the process, trust the system and don't
be afraid, Um, to get up at the plate and
take some swings. Um. It's one thing that, you know,
coach has always reminded me when I got this job. Um,
(04:45):
you know you're gonna go out someday, so go out
on your own terms and, Um, you know, I think, Um,
that mindset and mentality helped us win and I think
if you look at what we did this offseason, you know,
with our offensive line, I think we kind of carry
that same mindset. So, you know, you only get one
opportunity potentially do something like this, so make most of
it and trust the people that, Um, that you're surrounded by.
I love that. That idea of not sitting on your hands.
(05:07):
I continue to talk about I know people get sick
and tired of me saying that. You know, back in
eleven we we did the Julio Trade. Without getting into that, like,
those are big moves across the league. They're happening a
lot more now and I love it. I think it's
it's what this league should be. Not flippantly. I think
most of the people have really well thought out plans
and they know their organizations. One of the things that
Bill Belichi used to teach me and I'm sure that
(05:29):
any has taught easiness over the years. You know your
organization better than anyone, right. I mean people can pop
off about what you should do and how you should
do it. In the end you know it better than anyone.
So obviously we're the ones that need to make the
decisions as general manages. You as one of me, as
a formal okay Brett Um, the dirty little secret in
my mind in the NFL, as great as the League is,
(05:52):
as supportive as it is, there are some jealous eyes
and and sort of envy and, uh come, petitiveness amongst
the peers. Right, let's call it the way it is.
And a lot of those guys are friends, a lot
of them are acquaintances, exponentially more. Again, when you're a
younger general manager, people look to you and they start thinking,
(06:13):
how did that happen? I remember I was getting calls
when I first got that GM job in Oh eight,
it seems like forever ago, and I had a lot
of that gray hair, but it's a long asshut. But
I remember. I remember getting calls from my friends. Are Saying, Thomas,
do you know this person, this person, this person, are
slamming you. They don't believe that you got this job.
It was an interesting thing for me to experience realizing
(06:34):
a lot of people just they want their opportunity. You
and I have been both blessed to have an opportunity.
What would you share with the young rising executive group
in this league to navigate that, to know that there
are gonna be a lot of hurdles and a lot
of people that are gonna try to take your knees
out on your way up? What would you share with them? Yeah,
(06:55):
I mean that's a that's a good question. Um, I
think part of it is just your overall mentality of
of the process and accepting that that's part of the territory.
I mean, look, it's the highest level football in the
world and it's the biggest sport in America. Um, it's
it's hard enough to get in this league, Um, let
alone survive in this league, and then you talk about
(07:17):
getting one of thirty two positions. So I think just
having the mindset of of of knowing, Um, just how
difficult it is to get these positions. There's gonna be
some natural jealousy and envy and that is part of
the territory. Um. But I think more importantly, like when
we go in our building every day, coach has, you know,
the sign, eliminate distractions and and really just more of
(07:38):
control what you can control, because the reality of it
is your ability to succeed and the success that your
team and organization has is solely dependent on the people
in that building and not the outside people. And maybe
you know, maybe you work with them, but the reality
of it is they're not gonna help you win on Sunday.
The people that you have in that building will. So
really control what you can. You can role and just
(08:01):
invest your time and your energy in cultivating those relationships
in your building and taking care of the people that
are gonna take care of you. So I think if
you just, you know, put the blinders on, uh control,
we could control and really Um, put all the resources into,
you know, cultivating that culture you have with your own staff.
Is is the way to go. It's a great point
and we can get spun off and it's just not
worth it right there's just it's not worth the energy
(08:23):
the time. So to that point, how are you about transparency?
So I've had these discussions with other people around the
League where I've wondered their stance on transparency within your organization.
I'm not talking outside, of course. I believe in making
sure that things are kept within. That's important. Do you
share when mistakes happen? Do you share when things could
(08:44):
have been done better by yourself as well? And I
remember back when I first got the job and less
need and Dave Callo were with me in the building
every time I did something wrong. Most Times I would
call him in, not every time. Most Times I'd call
him in. I'd say look, I mess this up, I
would never do a B and c again the way
that I did that. They were very grateful that I
(09:06):
spent time doing that. It's not easy all the time.
Do you have a stance on that? Do you think
you should be clear and clear with clear and concise
with your I think overall, I mean, you know, we
all have to identify talent and we have to manage
the cab and bring talent in here. But you know, Thomas,
you probably share the same mindset. I think that transparency,
(09:27):
uh and communication skills are absolutely the number one Um,
you know, quality that any good GM has. and Um,
because that builds respect and the fields trust and and
I think you know you're more likely to get um
or or to grow your building and grow your organization
through tough difficulties or through tough conversations that were done
(09:52):
through open transparency, and there's a lot more respect generator
for that as opposed to not telling anyone why you
did things or or not owning up the mistake. Um,
you know, our whole process and the way we do
things is all inclusive. So, Um, you know there's many
ways that scouts and personnel departments do things and and
you know, break them up into higher ups and and
(10:13):
Midlevel Scouts and little scouts. And you know, I listen,
I had a chance to work with Um, John Dorson
and Chris Ballard, and that was the one cool thing
that I learned from them when I came here that
they included me and everything, and I just felt like
I grew. I probably grew a certain amount in so
many years and then all of a sudden when I
was in room with John and Chris and they included me,
(10:35):
and it motivated you internally because, Um, they're gonna be
open and honest and they were gonna expect the same
out of you. But but I think it just it
fosters respect and trust and and and I mean all
across the board, so not just maybe a personal members contract,
but I mean even the little things like how you
do your parking and why you do things. Just the how,
(10:56):
the what, the where and the wise, I think is
that is explained and there's always open communication and transparency.
You mitigate so many Um hurdles along the way and
I think that at the end of the day, if
you're open, transparent and you have great communication with your coaching,
your ownership, your president, you're you're scouting staff members, you're
gonna eliminate so much wasteful time in that building and
(11:17):
just really get to the Um, to the important stuff
you know more clearly and and I think it just
makes the whole operation run more smoothly. Well said. I
mean that trust and respect factor is so important within
the building and we realized that right the longer that
we're in these roles and and you're you're just you're
thriving in it. Do you remember back to your very
first big trade slash move as a GM? Well, I
(11:41):
haven't been doing it that long, Um. So I was
in this position for two years and Um, the first
year was with Alex Smith, who made the trade that
first year with PAT right right. So my first year
with PAT UM, my second year, first year with Pat Um,
(12:02):
we had that big run and we made it SNFC
championship game. Came up just short. That's when we brought
in Steve and his staff and and you know, we
were kind of at a crossroads where we brought in
a new staff and we're trying to change the whole
scheme and we kind of hit a little dilemma with
D Ford. D Ford, as you know, it was a
great pass rusher and thirty four outside linebacker and Um.
(12:24):
This is where the open communication, that transparency comes into play.
And Stephen I had a lengthy conversation um about the
great player and great edge rusher Um for my scheme
and and playing reduced more, Um having to take on
a lot in regards to, you know, run responsibilities, and
he just said I just worry that, although he's an
elite pass rusher and he's a great thirty four Otside Linebacker,
(12:47):
for what I want to do here, it's it's gonna
be hard to get what a franchise tag would warrant
in regards to production. Um. So you look at the
landscape and then you're in a tricky position because you're
picking Third D and there's not always you know, this
is old linemen tackles DNS. They're off the board by
by ten fifteen. So you're kind of looking at what's
(13:08):
out there. And then all of a sudden, you know,
you start making some phone calls and you have an
opportunity to touch base with Seattle on Frank Clark and Um.
So I remember going through that process and and just
so much communication with Steve And the vision and the
goal and making sure we're all on board with this
and having the same mindset. And then Andy popped by
(13:28):
the office one day and kind of said, Hey, where
are we? What are you thinking with this Frank Clark things?
And I said well, you know, if I didn't have
a good feel about this, we wouldn't be this far along.
And he said, listen, you do what you want, but
at the end of the day, man, you're here because, Um,
you've got a great feel and you got, you know,
great good instinct. Just go what you feel, man. You know,
Piss on everything else. You know, let it roll how
(13:50):
you feel. And I remember after that conversation, Um, you know,
and it wasn't anything like I want to do it
or don't do it. It was trust your ut you're
in this position because I trust you. Now you trust
yourself and let's just, you know, go with what your
your instincts tell you. And it was, you know, maybe
a day later too, I call my my my staff
(14:11):
and I said let's roll, let's just do this and
and and, you know, worked out and we were able
to to Um to make the super bowl and it
was cool to see frank at the end of that
game get a sack there. So it was it's kind
of a a pretty cool process there. But you know, it
just goes back to how we all worked so well
together and there's a trust and and the you know,
the people are constantly reinforced on a daily basis of
(14:32):
their value to the organization and why you're there. You're
you're in there for this specific reason. And again, just
that little reminder. Coach, you know, bump me. It's like,
I don't I'm not telling you what to do. You
know you're the GM now, but trust your gun man.
I love that. I mean that's that's the reassurance, right
with a guy like Andy Reid, of course, and an
organization that believes in that. I think it's so important.
A little aside. When my first one, interestingly enough, you'll
(14:54):
get a kick out of this, was an oh eight.
I just get to Atlanta and the first person that
we are looking to deal, and he's on NFL network,
so he's gonna probably be piss telling the story, was
D'angelo Hall. It was like we we, we have to
move d' Angelo. It was just we're gonna make that move.
So my first deal was with Al Davis of all people. Right,
ne a fight general manager. I'm thinking, my God, I
(15:14):
gotta Call Up Al Davis. So call him up, you know,
we do. Okay, we have the conversation. We Trade D'Angelo
hall at that point for a second round. Two weeks
later I get a call from quote. I want my
pick back, like and I didn't know what to do.
I thought, can you do that? And he said I'm just,
I'm just rasing you a young boy, and it was
(15:35):
just kind of one of those things that I thought,
Oh my God. The interesting thing was trying to, you know,
get my feet underneath me in those early, early moments
as a general manager, because you're learning on the fly,
right you're trying like crazy to keep your head above
water in those especially that first year. For me, it
was a year one and two. As I started getting
my head above water, I started seeing a lot more things,
(15:58):
interestingly enough, that I didn't really feel comfortable with. And
that's where it became more complicated. By the way, I
always thought that it was gonna get easier as I
started getting the double digits as a GM get harder.
It's it's complicated. So you did a really good job
over those years to impress upon this organization, uh, the owner,
the ownership family and and and Clark Hunt and Andy
(16:18):
Reid and and everyone else. Um, and you positioned yourself
and differentiated yourself from others who might have been up
for that job. I don't know how that went down.
What can you share again, with that young rising executive
group or people that are right in the verge? How
did you differentiate yourself within this building? What did you
truly do to step out? Yeah, I think, Um, I
(16:40):
think I was just able to maximize each and every opportunity.
I think that and you have this is Thomas. I
mean this is a competitive league. Obviously it's a competitive
business and I think that attracts competitive people. Um, I
think it's a natural inclination and you've probably been there.
I know I've been there where I had to catch myself.
(17:01):
But you come in and you think, I just want
to work in the NFL. Right. So you get in
the NFL and you're like, I just want to be
a scout, and then you're scouting. Then you say I
just want to be a director, I just want to
be a GM Um. But I think those goals are
great to have and you have to have them Um,
to inspire you and to keep you motivated and keep
you going. But I think I've always been able to
(17:24):
just maximize the moment and, you know, detail the work
in that moment. And I think what you've come to
realize is the stuff that I'm finding most useful now
was the stuff I learned when I was basically an intern,
and that's just people, communication skills. So like, and I
(17:44):
tell this to our our young interns every year, like
these are this is the foundation of your ability to
succeed and grow in this business and it's it's these
moments here. And I think you know, I'm not that
young now, so I can look back and and you know,
the relationships I as an intern, being a liaison to
(18:05):
the trainers, the equipment people, the video people, knowing that,
you know, we're not any more important than them. And
you know sometimes people have these preconceived notions. Well, you know,
they were this, they're that. No, like everyone has a
part in this and you gotta treat those people with
respect and those people buster tails just like you do.
And I think when you're an intern and you see
(18:25):
how hard those people are working on the side, you're
able to carry that through and and learn that. You'RE
gonna take that from this experience. And then I'm gonna
take the struggles as a road scout, being in a
hotel by myself and no one's around, and then you're
gonna take, you know, the difficulties of communicating, communicating with
the the coaches on pro advances. So I think I've
(18:46):
been able to do a lot of different things, but
I think I've always had that mindset to not get
caught looking so far ahead where I'm missing out the
learning in what some people think, well, that's not an
important job, but there are really valuable, important tools that
you're gonna end up realizing we're more important than a director.
(19:08):
And and again, I think now I'm able to communicate
things so um efficiently because I've had those experiences in
the relationship I have with the Rick Burke holder or
now and the writer equipment guy. Um. It's one of
those things where, Um, I just think as a young
guy starting out especially, Um, you know all these guys
(19:29):
are competitive. Um, keep those goals, always work to achieve
those goals. Um, but never sell yourself short on the
current position, no matter, even if it's not something you want. Yes,
just maximize it, make the most of it, because you're
gonna find out that that's gonna be the most beneficial
probably job and it's gonna lay the foundation. It's gonna
put you where you need to be ultimately at the
end of the day. So it's a it's an interesting
(19:50):
juxtaposition of being where you are and focusing on where
you are continuing to thrive. One of the other mixes
mixed in is is you have to be very mindful,
of course, of your team as well. Right. You can't
be that person that comes in and just like a whirlwind,
taking everyone out just to get to the top. There
has to be a team element and I've always believed
that some people do a really the good ones do
(20:12):
a really good job at keeping that in perspective. While
they're climbing, they're keeping things cool, keeping the team together.
I think you obviously have a really good, good feel
for that. You've had the speaking of doing good and
you've had the good fortune of being around a head coach,
one of the best in the League and the history
of the League and an all around great guy, great soul.
(20:33):
You have an experience being around Andy Reid and you
see how it is at the top to to build
an organization. If I were to ask you, humbly, and
I say humbly two provide advice for a group of
owners that were to be here and and they were
looking for like what is the ticket and what is
the key to having now the operation at the top
(20:55):
of the football organization thrive? What do you think, excinctly
or not so succinctly, as that is a key to that,
if you were giving them advice, I'm probably not the
best person to ask that question because you know, in
many ways I've been spoiled Um being with coach my
entire career, from an intern uh to an in house
scouting assistant, Area Stout and so on and so forth.
(21:16):
So Um, I and I think this is probably the
main reason why why I am successful, is because, you know,
on one end you could have looked at my starting
my career as a young GM, but as a first
time young GM I had ten years of prior experience
working with coach read. So just that general concept of
of having a rapport where that again, we're gonna say
(21:39):
that a thousand times today, but that trust. I know
what's expected of, you know, the head coach, Um and
knowing the responsibilities, just having that prior report. And I
think if you just take a look at the League
of of of sustained success over the years like John
Snyder and Pete Carroll and Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlind and,
(22:00):
I don't think that just is just it's a fluke.
I think these guys, I think the GM knows what
the coach wants. I think, you know, the coach knows
how to articulate what he wants with the GM. I
think there's Um, the collaboration, um the culture. The trust
is there and you know, coach and I are to
the point now where we get into an off season
(22:23):
and he'll be in there dice in a place for
next year and he'll just tell me, hey, let me
know what we're doing, let me know what you think
and I'll come in and here's what we're thinking. For
to say, all right, let's roll Um. And now he
can focus on the things that he really wants to do,
and that's draw plays and and and have pat my
homes out there scoring touchdowns every possession, and he doesn't
get bogged down with the stuff that at this point
(22:44):
in his career, he really doesn't want to do anymore. Um.
But there's an understanding that trust and it's it's tricky
because a lot of times ownership is working with a
GM to hire coach and or ownership is working with
a coach to hire GM. Um, if there's no prior report,
I think it's different. Well, I think in many ways. Um,
I don't think you'll find, I realized that our setup
(23:06):
is a little bit unique. I don't think that you
find success or find readily find good gms and good
coaches that have ten years of prior experience. Um. But
I think there should be some sort of Um mindset
for that ownership group to look for, Um, similar ideologies
(23:28):
and how you build a team and what's important and roster,
construction and the culture and that all intertwines with the
city you're in and what's important to that city and
how everything kind of works in one Um cohesive deal. Um,
it's unique. Again, I'm probably not the best person I
asked that question because I've been spoiling and I've been
with coach for so many years, but I definitively know
(23:49):
that the reason why we've we've been successful is because
we've already had a pre existing relationship and the trust
was already there from day one and we didn't have
to work to grow and go through the using seasons
and to figure out who we're gonna blame. We knew
what was expected and I think that's enable us to
get off to, you know, a hot start from from
the get go. Well, your your organization, you and your
(24:12):
relationship with Andy is so admired around the league and
I think coveted. Quite honestly, a lot of people are
looking at that, at that relationship and the understanding that
the two of you have in the respect that you
have for each other. Back to that, to your to
what your your art is and your your expertise is
is really appreciated by Your Coach by the coaching staff
(24:33):
is really important. This is usually when I delve back
into the history that you and I might have in
this league. And you and I don't have a long history,
but we have history where we've we've spoken over, you know,
over the years about this or that or about, you know, topics,
your insight, you're intelligent. Your opinion, I appropriate opinion, I
love I think it's it's it's really sound and I
(24:55):
think there are a lot of people in this league
that can learn a lot from you. Your your perception
is wide range and I appreciate that. With that as
a backdrop, what over the next five to ten years
are you encouraged about with regard to the League? And,
on the flip side, what in the next five or
ten years are you the most concerned about? I would
(25:17):
say for that question I might use Um, the same
topic to Equally Express, Um, my encouragement and also some concern.
I would say that, Um, obviously our sport is it's
a big deal and it continues to get bigger and
bigger and bigger. Um, one of the cool things about
our sport is it has such a unique connection with
(25:39):
the fans and it allows the fans to feel like
they are part of of the family, and social media has,
on one end, done some remarkable things for players and
for this league. And talk about connecting fans and having
the fans feel more connected to the players. They get
(25:59):
to see it that, you know, um the players behind
the scenes. The players get to express themselves. Um. It's
a cool time to be a player because they now
have Um more power than they've ever had. Right. They
can market themselves. They could um endorse other players, endorse
other coaches. Um Again, the marketing aspect. Most importantly, which
(26:21):
should be most important, their charitable um endeavors, that they're
in things that they're really passionate about in their community.
They have a great platform to Um, you know, work
on that message and to deliver that message the thousands
of thousands of people. I was joking with one of
the staff members on my team that think about it
(26:42):
like this, like if you have a six or seventh
round draft selection out of nowhere, Le's just say, an
undrafted free agent, and he makes your team and the
season is over and now he wants to do this
Um local charity football, then that's a pretty cool deal.
UNDRAFTED free agent, maybe from a small town in Arkansas. Um.
So we tweet said well, now he has the ability
to get that out there two thousands of people and
(27:04):
that's cool and it gets his message out there. What
he what he's passionate about, connects the fans what's important
to him. But now all of a sudden he makes
our team and Pat Mahomes retweets that. Now all of
a sudden that two thousand follower, undrafted free agent who
has a great message, Um, and he hits tweet and
(27:26):
it gets seen by two thousand people. Now of a
sudden you throw in the five or six or seven
million now all of a sudden. So that is a
really cool aspect of this league and and how it's
growing and how social media and electronics and technology is
taking this Um to unprecedented levels. And we're not just
talking about here in America but globally. I mean, you know,
(27:47):
we're a permanent picture now in England and and we
had a great experience playing in Mexico and the fans
um down there were amazing. So as social media becomes
bigger and bigger and bigger, players get more and more
um of an opportunity to market themselves again, their product
um their vision for how they want to help the
(28:08):
city and their charitable such a great thing. At the
same time, I think we've all seen this over the
past year that while that is a powerful, you know,
Um tool for these players and it's it's really exciting
for the leak to grow and to connect the fans,
at the same time we've seen over the past year, Um,
(28:28):
how device of social media can be and you have
the negative impact of social media. And so while you
have the ability to market yourself and talk about your
charitable contributions, there's that also aspect of social media where
you have, um, the fan breakdown of the game and
when you have a young player that maybe struggle, maybe
had a bad game on Sunday, and we've this younger
(28:51):
generation has grown up to be attached to their mobile
devices at all times. So now they play a game
and game didn't go so well right and they're reading
you suck, you suck. Trade, trade, trade. But on one
end you'd like to think that you know these guys
have been through, you know high school and college, they're
big boys, you know they can take it, but at
(29:11):
the end of the day, and we all are, we're
all human, and it it affects people in different ways
and I think if you we've seen how device it
it can be. I think we've also learned over the
last two years the role of mental health. So I
think that that's the technology and the social media aspect.
Finding that perfect balance, I think, is so critical because
(29:33):
our players, and I see it, and I tell coach
to read this, every day I come in that locker
room in the morning before Oh t a s and
I look in the locker room and every player is
down here and they're refreshing the twitter and they're reading
and again, they can use that and they can market
themselves and they can really promote some great things and
and bring fans in and sell the sport and that's great,
but at the same time, you know, it's our obligation
(29:54):
as the staff to, you know, to spend time, money
and resources in, you know, to how coaching these young
kids on that proper balance and and and and how
you pull away from that stuff because, you know, I
think a lot of these players that that don't achieve
success nowadays I think they just get so self consumed
(30:14):
with other people's opinions and it's because they've been so
much time spend so much time on their phone and
it it is an addictive device and it could be
controlling and Um. So I just think that, you know,
it's it takes a lot of Um planning to really
you know, because these kids are on these paths. I
see with my kids. I come home and they're on
(30:35):
their paths and you've got to pull them away and
it's tough. And then all of a sudden, now that
pad that they're so attached to um becomes their source
of of of news and sports updates. And then when
you're playing at this level and people are comment constantly
commenting about you, you can't tell me it doesn't have
a psychological impact, even if you're Tom Brady. Maybe not
(30:56):
Tom Maybe not, maybe not, maybe not Pat Mahomes, but
I mean for a listen, players, it's going to impact
them in some way. Sleeping Patterns, eating, eating habits, Um,
you know, their focus on a day to day basis.
So I really think that, you know, we're gonna have
to continue to spend time and resources into, you know, helping,
help educating this younger generation and how to balance all
(31:19):
of this technology and to be able to put it
down and to just clear the mind and focus on
what's most important, so proper balance and technology, and we
don't have to spend deep into this. Suffice to say, then,
do you have a stance and do you have a
feeling about being on the front end of the curve
regarding emerging technologies, whether that is an athletic performance? Again,
(31:40):
we don't have to go into major details or statistical
analysis where the League is going. Do you think you
should be a little more reactive and contemplative, or are
you a front end of the curve? Let's see what's
out there? Technology was, as it pertains, your football team? Yeah,
I think every I think every organization, every team, is different.
I think that we drive to be on the forefront
(32:01):
of assessing functionality. So it doesn't make sense for us
and and look some things and some procedures may make
sense for Philadelphia or Atlanta, but it may not make
sense for us. Right. Um, some of the you know,
things that I think people don't consider sometimes is when
you talk about analytics, Um, there is there are databases
(32:23):
and there are manpowers and hires. Now some staffs have
six people and they invest in machinery that's needed to
run all this stuff and some teams have it. Some
teams don't have it, but I think that we always
want to do what's best for our organization. I think
it's important for us to to know what's out there. Two,
you know, see if it makes sense for us, uh,
to sense the functionality of how it works. We certainly
(32:45):
integrate analytics. Um You know, there's those teams that are
bigg in analytics, teams that kind of use it as
a complementary source of information, the teams that don't use
at all. I would say we're in the middle there.
I think we understand the value of analytics and we
know that it could be certainly have a compet of
the advantage, but at the same time I don't think
we're rushing out there to buy every newest and latest thing.
(33:05):
Um You know, some of these things need I mean
you need proper sample sizes and some of these latest
and greatest Um you know, analytic studies come out and
and after a while you realize that when you look
back on the data, didn't really give you exactly what
you thought it did. So there's an element of patients,
I think. But more importantly, what do you have? Um,
the budget and the manpower to really handle and utilize
(33:27):
the right way. So I mean, yeah, we could. We
could wax plantic forever about what's going on in the
league that way, and there's a lot of discussions there
at the league level. General Manager's Advisory Committee, the League
office is always talking about what's next. Where do we?
Where do we appropriately, you know, delve into certain areas,
which is again fascinating for me thinking about the future,
the future of our league right now and where you
(33:49):
are as a general manager. This is probably the time
that I'd like to to segue into diversity and inclusion.
Do you have a thought, in a stance once again,
on where we are as a league? We're making strides
and yet we still love quite a ways to go.
What are your thoughts about that and how do you
feel your organization is operating under under that sort of guidance? Well,
(34:14):
I mean to the question itself, I think that's where
we are. I think that we've we've made some Um,
some significant movement over the last five or ten years,
but I think we can all agree that we're not
where we need to be and we have to continue
to strive and be better. Um, you know, we certainly
take a lot of pridor in Kansas City, um in
in in fostering opportunities and and being completely inclusive and
(34:37):
and you know, we know that, or at least the
way I look at this is, is that we just
have to continually do a great job of maximizing opportunity
for diversity, and I think that's what you really at
the end of the day. I think when anyone's making
a higher they want to hire good people, but they
also want to hire people that they're comfortable with, the
people that they've seen. Um, doesn't matter what color they are,
(34:58):
where they came from. And for us to take a
step back and realize, well, how do we, um make
this all inclusive and how do we promote diversity? We've
got to start at the grassroot level and we have
to continually have opportunities for internships, for fellowships, have these
people in our building, Um see how they interact, work
with our staff, how much responsibility can handle. And I
(35:19):
mean shoot, Thomasin's I've been here, I think every year
that format has worked for us and whether that Um.
You know, Ryan pouls has come up through that system
before I got here and we see how how far
he's risen. But just in the last few years. Great
Castillo want son has been in here and been an
intern and worked his way up. Young kid by the
name of Jalen Maerk has has, a local kid, Um,
(35:41):
came out of nowhere, when it's a volunteery, did and
all of a sudden we're like wow, this kid is unbelievable,
and that's all you need sometimes these kids just see
an opportunity to just show you what they can do. Well,
if we're not constantly providing that at the grassroots level
and having these fellowships and internships and you know, we'll
never get to experience their work ethic firsthand. And I
think once you do that, Um, you know what a
(36:01):
what a great set up for an organization to have
that type of diversity. And, like I said, we take
a lot of pride in that and, Um, we're very fortunate.
We feel, like, you know, uh, scouting staff wise, from
top to bottom, that we have it all covered and
we have just phenomenal people from top to bottom. All right,
so a couple more questions before we finished the interview. Um.
One is, when I look back and step back and
(36:25):
look at your situation here, I do believe you have
a trifactor you have a great owner in Clark Hunt,
a great head coach and historic head coach in Andy Reid,
and one of the best quarterbacks in the league. That
is that's unbelievable when you look at that, that whole
group together, and you start thinking about the positives and
what they have brought to you again in your leadership ability.
(36:48):
Let's jump over to the owner for a minute. If
you were to pinpoint one salient element to Clark Hunt's
leadership style and leadership sort of Um lessons, what would
they be? Well, I think what what stands out motion
talk about Clark is is just the passion for the
city in this organization. Um, I think it's really cool that, Um,
(37:12):
you get to work for an owner that this isn't
a hobby for him. Right, this isn't I have some money,
I want to buy a team. I mean it is Um,
just draped in in history and tradition. Um, I mean shoot,
his father named the Super Bowl. The F C championship
is named Lamar Hunt. Um, this is not just a hobby,
it's a passion and he carries Um, that tradition and
(37:35):
that legacy with so much respect and he really motivates
you to be detailed in every aspect. Everything that has
to do with the chiefs is important. Um, not just
your first round draft pick, not just extending Pat Mahomes,
um every level at in every um part of this
(37:56):
building is important to him and I think that has
you do it has you take a step back and
and just really focus on detail and everything. And if
you detail the small things, the bigger things come Um.
And I never go into a meeting, you know, when
you meet with the owner. I mean you're so buttoned up.
But I mean Clark will will pick out the most
(38:16):
miniscule detail and you will think that Um, you'll read
it a thousand times and won't pick it out and
then you know Clark will see it and it'll be
the first thing he notices. But Um, he just forces
you to be perfect and and and, but he does
so in in in such a caring way where, Um,
he truly cares about the people. Um, he cares about
the tradition, he cares about the city. Um, and it's
(38:38):
just he has uh, and it doesn't seem like it
because Clark is a very mild mannered person, but in
his own unique way he has a very infectious way
about him. Where you can just tell the amount of
of pride he has forest father, for the legacy, for
the chiefs Um and it's just super motivating and it's
I think it's a really cool experience to have the
opportunity to work for for not just are but this,
(39:00):
certainly this, this risch family history. I think it's it's
just one of the newest experiences that anyone in our
positions could ask for. Well, I mean again, having the
opportunity to be around such successful people just so good
for you as you're evolving into the position and, like
you said, you're not as young as you used to be.
I say that jokingly because we're you don't even do
(39:21):
you have one gray hair? Have I definitely have something,
but you stay. You do have fun as well. You
do believe in some life balance and which let's talk
very quickly about the hobby element. You like the ponies
and you like Nascar. Is there any is there any
parallel there to sort of building and being around those
hobbies in football, or is it just a hobby purely?
(39:43):
You just love it? But I certainly think the horses
and the horse racing, I think it kind of feels
that competitive drive and desire when you're away. Um, it's
funny because you're supposed to take that time to step
away from the game and but you find yourself constantly
wanting to to challenge yourself. And I think there's a
lot of similarities in horse racing. Um, there's a lot
(40:04):
of parallels to Um, both pro and college scouting. I
mean you're looking at pedigree and you're looking at track
biases and you're looking at weather conditions and you're looking
at workout history of horses and Um, I just think
that you know horse racing, you know, since I was
a kid. Now, Um, I was you know, I grew
up Pennsylvania and you know, my grandfather, Um, passed away
(40:25):
a few years ago, but we had basically a routine where,
you know, you would do sports all week and then
you'd hit church in the morning, you'd hit Brunch at
at his house and then he would put in his
car and drive you forty five minutes to Um, to
Penn national and you'd watch horse racing from twelve to five.
And I did that my entire youth growing up. You know,
almost every Sunday I'd be at the track. So, Um,
(40:45):
I kind of fell in love with that. And then
when you get into this line of work you kind
of see the similarities and that you know you're you're
scouting the racing forms and you're doing the homework and
you're you know, the lineage of the Horse and and
you know, there's his horses. He you know, can you
get mile and a half? Is He? Is He more
of a sprinter? Um, what kind of pedigree does he have?
Does he like the dirt? Does he like the grass?
Does he like a sloppy track? So there's just a
(41:07):
lot of factors that I think you know, Um, and
one of these is I'm gonna get a horse. And
and you know I have a great relationship with Mickey
Loomis and you know Mickey's Um, certainly the vincent family
that they have. Um, they've bred horses and they've had
a lot of success and and Um, I used to
joke with Mickey all the time. I said, Mickey, when
(41:27):
we when when I win a super bowl, I rememver
fortunate H and blessed when a super bowl, I said,
I want to go in with you and I want
to get a horse and I want to do the
whole thing. And so then he called me after we won.
Now the covid thing took over and we couldn't do it.
But it's funny now we joke all the time. You know,
Mickey will call uh during the o t a s
or during the point period and I never start the
conversation with anything other than you find a Horse Shit.
(41:49):
You know, that's what I always start with him and
and he always tells me he's looking, he's looking, but
uh Um. But Mickey and I show that kind of
bond together. But I just think it's a fascinating sport
and it's kind of it's a good release for me,
yet still get some of that competitive side. I love that.
And Mickey, by the way, it's a great mentor to
have that way. And I called him to Godfather and
our interview conversations a couple of weeks ago. He didn't
like that and they said that's when you're old and Crotchety,
(42:11):
and I said no, that's not the case. Last question
I ask everyone this if there was one question that
you feared I was gonna ask, and you don't have
to answer it, by the way, and friends, what would
it be? If you would have asked me if I
pick the correct win of the Kentucky Derby, because I'm
supposed to be a horse expert. I would tell you
a true story of the Horse I told everyone was
gonna win. I think finished, I want to say, seventeenth
(42:33):
out of twenties. So you know, I think that that
this qualifies me as as a horse expert. But I'm
glad you didn't. Didn't go into my record. I'm a horseman,
but I'm glad you didn't go into my record and
and Um, you know, if you wanted to see the
you know, the the awards on the wall. I don't
have many of them because I've lost more than I've won,
but I just enjoy it. You know, thoroughly enjoyed this.
Thank you again. I know we're moving up to watching baseball,
(42:56):
but I feel like I could talk to you all night.
I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you all right. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed
the time with Brett beach. As you can see, very
insightful and and honestly wise beyond his years. What a
great opportunity he's had there and that's what we all want.
(43:18):
Right get your foot in the door, make the best
of your opportunities and obviously Brett Beach has done that.
Of course, from there we're jumping across the country, a
little bit over to Buffalo, and what's really interesting about
it is brandon bean and one of my favorite guys
in the League. I really, really like his his story
and his journey coming from more of the financial side
(43:41):
jumping into football and becoming really versed in this sport. Um,
on a side note, of course, when I was in
Kansas City with the beach I did not jump into
the barbecue there. Really wasn't in that mode. And Uh,
but when I got to buffalo for the very first
time in thirty years, that's not an exaggeration, I broke
(44:02):
my carnivore rule and literally threw a wing in my
mouth or two, and I did it all in the
spirit of making this show the way it should be,
you know, sort of a journey. So my journey into
eating chicken wings after many, many years on the wagon
ended and I did it with my good friend Brandon
(44:23):
being in Buffalo. You have been listening to the GM
journey with Thomas demittrop. Continue to follow Thomas as he
interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey
has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demittro and Octagon Entertainment.
(44:46):
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
or wherever you get your podcast from. The GM journey
is distributed by the eight side working
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