April 8, 2022 • 47 mins
Thomas heads to Baltimore and interviews Ravens GM Eric DeCosta. Thomas and Eric discuss Eric's dedication to the Raven's organization and his task of following one of the great NFL GM's, Ozzie Newsome.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Forward Slash donate that. Let's jump to a different part
(00:51):
of the country. Let's get up the Baltimore. Let's spend
some time with Eric da Costa. Now, Eric is a very,
very interesting person. He's very Intel Eligent, very introspective and
has a really, really good, insightful approach to this game.
Welcome to the GM journey with Thomas Demtrough. I mean
(01:12):
here's a guy that was a part of the the
Ravens Paradigm for a number of years under Ozzie. Knew
some one of the very best in the business ever,
and he he was able to be tutored under him
and mentored by Ozzy. Knew someone what a what a
great opportunity to learn, and he hung in there many years.
Of course, many people were watching for him and looking
(01:34):
for him to leave and take a job, but he
stayed put. He is so firmly entrenched in that organization,
so firmly respected by his owner and again, very, very intelligent.
You'll you'll, you'll determine very quickly in the interview how
much he has to offer and where his intelligence level
is and his insight is. So take a ride with us,
(01:57):
enjoy the ride with myself and Dacosta, and I know
you will be highly impressed. Let's kick this off, Eric,
you've been in this in the League, in the National
Football League, for twenty six years now too, as a
general manager. Going into your third year. You kicked ass
coming out of the gate as the executive of the year.
(02:20):
You've done some great things all through all of your years.
You've been around some great, really intelligent football people, obviously
very intelligent yourself. Over these years you've learned a lot
right and you've been around guys like Ozzy knewsome, who
are unbelievably talented in our world, renowned for for being
a sports leader. How did you approach that. What was
(02:42):
your personal approach to following a guy like Ozzy knewsom? Well,
I think you know, obviously big shoes to fill. It's
something that people should know. Like I knew in two
thousand seven that I would be the next general manager,
which isn't the typical situation and for most general managers.
I became the general manager in two thousand nineteen, so
(03:04):
I had a twelve year period where I was on
the job training. You know, Steve Bischotti, our owner, asked
me to be as next general manager and Ozzie knew that.
There were no surprises. There was a plan of secession.
It was all about, you know, when Ozzy was ready
to retire. That's what happened. So I had a long
time to think about what it would look like and
(03:25):
you know, there was a pressure. I mean obviously, as
you alluded to, Thomas Hall of Fame Player, probably a
hall of Fame, Executive College Hall of fame, Nfl Hall
of fame, first two draft picks of Ozzy newsom's tenure
in the hall of fame, Jonathan Oggen Ray Lewis huge
shoes to fill. So, uh, I decided I was gonna
try to do it my way Um be a little
(03:47):
bit more aggressive, probably a little bit more outside the box,
a little more creative, and yet still try to emulate
Ossie's humility, his ability to work with other people, with
head coaches, which I think is critically Inportan, which we
can talk about, his ability as an evaluator, to focus
on football, all those different things, and yet do it
(04:08):
my way. You obviously have that side to you. I
mean from afar, it's your it's admirable how you approach
things and we can get into that a little bit
later about the aggressiveness and the approach, because I think
that's what I believe in the you can't sit on
your hands in this. Yeah, what was the sort of
most sort of enlightening lesson of leadership team building that
(04:30):
you learned from from a guy like Ozynism? I think
just watching him interact with the three coaches that we've had.
And when you think about the Ravens Organization, Twenty Five seasons,
three head coaches before me, one general manager and all
of our head coach is very, very different. You had
Ted Marcherbrod, a very much old school kind of an
NFL legend, had been a head coach to other times
(04:52):
and with the Baltimore Colts and then the Indianapolis Colts,
older than Ozzy by by a lot, and so that
changes the dynamic. Then you got the younger Brian Billick, Brash,
some might say, outspoken, somewhat arrogant, uh strong opinions, are
very intelligent. And then John Harbaugh, totally different too, very intense, cerebral,
(05:15):
uh strong leadership but again very firm in his beliefs.
And watching Ozz he navigate those different personalities in the
way that he did that extremely impressive. And I think
when people talk about Ozzy they don't understand how he
interacts with people. He's a relationship builder, humility. This is
a guy that's really succeeded at every walk of his
(05:37):
life in many different ways, and yet his humility just
bleeds through and uh, he doesn't have to be the guy.
He's a part of the process. It's always about the organization.
So for me, just watching him in those relationships, how
he would navigate challenging situations. As you know, Thomas, it
could be really difficult working with head coaches and presidents
and different people, and Ozz he did it so masterfully
(05:59):
that it was hard for me not to pay attention. Well,
that's great. I mean I can only imagine being around
that over those years. Keeping your proverbial notes in your
proverbial book is amazing. We all were taught to do
that and you you again, not only being around Ozzie
but other people. You guys have had unprecedented success within
the organization, again, as the Baltimore Ravens and how they're
(06:22):
perceived and what you guys have achieved over the years
through that. When you have an organization like that, you
lose some very good people. I mean I remember me
in in New England. We were always losing people. It
was tough. You guys have had to deal with that.
You guys have had again, talented people that you've lost
as a general manager. How complicated is that? How do
you approach that and how do you approach succession planning
(06:43):
when you know that year to year you're gonna be
losing really good football people? Well, you know you're right
and I think in my time in Baltimore we've had
six people go on to become general managers that have
worked under Ozzie. Um. The latest Joe Douglas, who I
know you spoke to, who I think the world of
and I think the idea is that the hiring for
(07:05):
your staff is a lot like the draft. It's got
to happen every year. You've got to find young guys
or young women who can command. We're going to talk
to Sarah later on. But you've got to find young
talent that can come in and develop and learn and
nurture and become the next really valuable members of your organization.
So we try and do that. We're not a club
that has historically gone out and hired people from other organizations.
(07:27):
We haven't done that very much. We've we've done it
a few times, but in general we try to hire
younger people that have a passion. They're curious, irreverent, intelligent,
passionate about the game of football, willing to learn about
the game of football. Give them a chance and, as Ozzie,
as Ozzie once said, the more you can do, the
more you can do. Give them a chance to grow
(07:48):
in the organization and end up being the next Great Scout, analyst, director,
whatever that might be. But promote from within, give them
a chance to learn the culture and to see what
they can do. Well, I mean again, I continue over
the years I've always looked at your roster of people
on the personnel side. I mean it is very talented
and very well thought out. How you guys have put
(08:09):
it together prior to you being in the GM role
and of course all along because you were in charge
of that department. You've kept some great people and you
continue to school them along the way. Um, you you
have one of the most highly revered owners that you
are working with and for, and that's UH in, Steve Mashadi. Unbelievable.
I know you have a great relationship with him. What
is your what's the key to a great relationship with
(08:32):
an owner like Stephen and and you know, how do
you if you were to advise some up and coming
general managers, how would you advise them to approach their
relationship with the owner? Well, every owner is different. Steve
and I actually share the same birthday, which is a
small thing, but in a strange sort of way, it
probably brought us together way back when. Uh He's a
(08:55):
he's an intense person. He's in a strong opinions, but
they're based in fact and they're there and he's not
afraid to tell you what he thinks and I think
Steve welcomes that trait in other people, and so one time,
a long time ago, he said to me, Eric, the
thing that I admire about you is you tell me
(09:15):
what you think, not what you think I want to hear.
And I would tell anybody that that has a boss
or a supervisor or a manager or whatever it is,
Um give them your honest opinion and do it based
on your work, based on your fact based on what
you've come up with. Don't try and B s them
(09:37):
or tell them what you think the proper answer might
be or the you know, the political answer might be
or what they might want to hear. Be Honest. They
have hired you to give your opinion based on what
you think, and an intelligent person is gonna be able
to see through that and they're gonna they're gonna be
a look at you and say he's genuine, he's not genuine.
(09:57):
She's doing the work, she's not doing the work, and
you're gonna respect you for that. I've thought about this
a lot because I know how important it is and
the longer you are in a relationship with an owner,
hopefully the more candid you can be and the more
honest you can be, and I would say to anyone Eric,
completely in line with what you're saying. It is imperative
that you're your candid and you're honest as far as
(10:20):
who you are as a person. Even I would even
go as far as saying, and it's not that easy,
I know, when you're on the verge of getting a
GM job and we start talking about, you know, advising
up and coming executives, you want to say the right
thing to the owner, but I would say the most
important thing is being honest with the owner about who
you are as a rising executive. There's no point in
getting into a relationship with an owner and ownership group
(10:42):
if you're B asking about something just to to appeal
to them right, because you're going to kick off a really,
really complicated relationship and you're gonna fail eventually. You're probably
gonna fail. And so I was blessed in some ways,
and you know, we can talk about my career with
the Ravens and my decisions to stay in various things,
but I felt that one of the advantages that I
(11:02):
had in terms of like looking at could I succeed,
was that my owner knew me, he knew my strengths,
he knew my weaknesses and wanted me to be the GM.
I wasn't trying to sell somebody on my potential to
be the GM or trying to sell somebody on well,
this is what we can do, this is what we
can't do. I knew step Shotti and Steve Schotti knew me.
(11:23):
There were no illusions. He knew and he would say
to me, Hey, you need to work on this or this.
You do this really well. This is something you need
to think about. And so for me over the last
twelve years he would say to me, you need to
know the people in the League office, you need to
under a Keno understanding of the salary cap, or I
(11:45):
want us to think about doing deals like this, and
I had the opportunity over twelve years to do that
before I was the GM. Huge advantage, huge. I love that.
I mean sometimes people are rushing to that GM spot.
You had an unbelievable, really fortunate situation where you were
able again to be around some great people and you
were able to really grow and and evolve into that spot.
(12:09):
You know as well as I do. No disrespect to
anyone who jumped in him. Look, I was I was
one of those people who had nowhere near the experience
you had. When I took the GM job back in
Oh eight, I was on the road, I was a
college director. You had, you have the opportunity. Had the
opportunity to be around a lot and we're edified in
so many ways, which I think is amazing. You've also
had the really good fortune of being around some really
(12:31):
good football coaches right and you you you know being
around you know John Harbor what he is as a strong, tough,
hard nose, opinionated, very well rounded football coach. Tell me
about that as a general manager and how you navigate
that relationship and how the two of you, you know,
thrive as a GM head coaching partnership. Well, before that.
(12:52):
It's very similar, Thomas, the way you had in New England.
But before that, you know, even when I started out,
you know, I mean we had Kirk parens and we
had Marvin Lewis and we had pat hill and I
mean we had we had all these the galaxy of stars,
as Pat Mori already always likes. It really was. So
I got used to being around these really talented people.
(13:13):
I mean bat we had phil savage, became a GM
and we had Scott Pioli, all these guys you worked
with in Cleveland, so you know. But these were really,
really good people. Jim Schwartz became a head coach, Eric Mangini,
they we were all together in Baltimore. So I got
a chance to see what it could look like, or
what it should look like. These really smart, innovative, great
coaches and scouts and all these different things. And so
(13:34):
you know, I can tell you this like being with John.
We're very much aligned. And again I had a chance
to see John from a different perspective as the assistant
GM and the director player personnel. But we are very
aligned in the vision and the culture that he's built
and I have tremendous respect for the culture that John
Harbor has built. It takes time, as you know. We've
(13:55):
been in some great cultures. It takes time, but I
know what it should look like and we've had great
assistant coaches. We've had a lot of guys that have
gone on to become head coaches, most recently David Culley
this year. But I know this is what it needs
to be and so I spend every day with John,
every morning, usually every night before I go home, uh
(14:16):
talking about the Day the Vision, the plan, this idea,
that idea. I think he respects my aggressiveness. I think
he respects that I'm willing to do everything possible to
look under every rock for an opportunity for value for
a player, whatever that might be. I think he likes that.
We're very similar, probably from that standpoint. He's not really
(14:38):
a sit on your hands type of guy. Uh. So
we work well together that we'll have some fights. You know,
we'll have some healthy fights, usually around draft time. Uh.
But I think that's really healthy and the good thing
is sometimes he's right, sometimes I'm right, so it balances
out and it ends up being a really good synergy. That,
I mean, that's what you need. Right the synergy is
(14:59):
so important. Along with the synergy of the head coach, you,
as a general manager, also have to have synergy with
the coaching staff. I'm talking about the coordinators and the
position coaches. I could go on and on talking about
the importance of that, because we know that, of course,
the head coach is the most important, but those coordinators
and those position coaches are vital. I have a very
(15:19):
strong opinion about making sure that you put together the
right coaching staff. It's not just about having loyalists or
or what I like to call loyal myrmidons, myrmidons with
the head coach. It's about making sure that you have
the right people in place right. So are you involved
in the coaching selection with John? Is your owner involved?
How do you guys approach that to make sure you
(15:40):
get the best staff that you can possibly get? Yeah, well,
I think the great thing about John is he's open
to basically anything and he's a guy that can take opinion.
Is extremely well. I would say that I think John
has a great pulse on coaches in general. For the
most part, he will consult with me, I'll ask me
my opinion. He'll say, do you know anybody? What do
(16:01):
you think of this guy? We just spend some time
with this guy. Um, I really think that John has
a great feel for, again, the culture and where we
need to go and so and he's not afraid to
hire someone controversial. He's not afraid to fire somebody mid season,
(16:21):
which isn't easy to do, as you know. Uh, we've
turned to coaching staff over quite a bit, but he's
almost he's patient as well. I think he'll hire college guys,
he'll hire pro guys. I'll hire guys that are out
of work. So I am involved. But I also know
that John is overseas the coaches. He's got a great
(16:44):
pulse for that. I mean he's he's he's very good
with scouts too. He's very good with players. He's he's got,
and that's not necessarily inherent in all coaches. He's got
a good ability to evaluate and he does it very,
very well. And so if you can evaluate, as you know,
you can have evaluate players, you can evaluate coaches, you
can evaluate people and he has a good job of
(17:04):
that today's world, don't you agree? I mean back in
the day I remember people saying I just want to
be perceived as a football guy and you have to
be right. I don't think that way. No, I don't.
(17:25):
Now I understand that mentality and that's how Ausi actually
but you can't nowadays. You've got to understand the importance
of digital media, social media, the fans, the brand, ticket sales,
all these different things are critically important. You know, Eric,
you've been described in your early tenure as a GM too,
(17:46):
going into three now, as tough, hard nosed direct I
even read an article today and I know you didn't
like to read it that it said cutthroat and that
was respectful, because that means tough, ass, direct and take
it head on, and I'm a big believer in not
sitting on your hands in this league. Yeah, of course.
You know, back in the Leven when we went after Julio,
(18:07):
I mean I'm proud of that. Will never look back
on something like. Yeah, what is your stance on aggressive
team building, trading, Etcetera. Well, I would say you know,
and the other they don't want to sound uh, you know,
whatever the word is, but when you you know, and
I pay attention. I study GMS. I've always been, you know,
fascinated by GMS. I never really like, cared much about coaches.
(18:28):
L I love coaches, but I would always study team builders,
whether it was red hour back or whoever it was,
you know, a wrong wolf for whoever it might be.
And when you when you went after Julio, I said,
you know, I just really admire that and who knows
how it's going to pan out, but I love the conviction.
And so, you know, I always say when we talk
(18:51):
to people, and it might be when I talked to
a player or an agent or a scout or whoever
it might be. The Ravens are to win this, we're gonna.
We have to win. Okay, so that means we're gonna
win the negotiation. That means we trade a player, we
need to win the trade. If I want to negotiate
with somebody, if we're gonna let somebody leave, if we're gonna,
(19:12):
we want to win because that's what our owner wants.
We want to be winning. We want to win it
everything we do. So, uh, I love I love making trades.
I want the trades to be fair. I want to
keep relationships with people. You and I have done some trades.
There was only one that was a really good draw.
It was Hayden Herston. But we want and we want
(19:35):
to be fair with everybody. When we do a deal
with an agent, we want it to be a fair deal.
We want to we want to give and take because
we want the player to be happy. We never want
to win in such a way that the player is unhappy,
was what happened, or the agent is upset with us
for how we handle the negotiations. In saying that, uh,
(19:56):
we we think, and I believe this incrementally, we always
want to win in the nature transaction and so we
analyze everything we do in every decision and we've got
a really good at people that work with me that
will advise me, whether it's George Coquina or Joe Hortiz
or Pat moriarity or Ozzy, who's basically the best, and
Nick Matdio or whoever someone in the analytics date McDonald
Sarah Malli Pala. They will give us advice, give me advice,
(20:18):
I'll listen to it and I'll say how can we win?
It doesn't have to be a huge win, but we're
trying to win every single transaction, every single deal we negotiate,
whatever that might be, and we believe if we do
that over time then we'll come out ahead. It's a
great it's a great lead into this next question. You
and your organization or at the front end of compensatory
(20:39):
picks and how you approach that. That arena is a
special arena. I think within the NFL. You guys are
at the front end of it. Talk to me a
little bit about that and talk to me how you
feel comfortable letting certain players go. That's a complicated spot
for GM. Yeah, well, that goes back many, many years
and it really goes back when Mr Modell was our owner,
(20:59):
and we just quite honestly, we're not able to really
participate in free agency and we didn't have the money. And,
you know, we would see that there was a correlation
between cash and winning and cash over captain winning, and
it was really hard for us because we just didn't
have the type of money to spend on all these
outrageous free agent contracts, and so the draft was really
(21:22):
our model. We became a very draft centric team and uh,
we we we sort of figured out there was a
really uh seminal article that was written, I don't know,
maybe two thousand seven, two thousand five, two thousand seven,
called the loser's curse, and it was really about the
draft and it was really about how teams should always
trade back and acquire picks and never trade up and
that you should always accumulate because the draft is basically
(21:45):
a luck driven process. And so, uh, we really came
to the conclusion that we weren't going to be able
to pay. The free agency is really in a rational
market and in the values, especially in the first couple
of weeks, are just so outrage just that we couldn't
get into that game. And so we would we would
let players leave. Well, by letting players leave, we then
(22:07):
figured out, well, the only you know, value of letting
players leave is if you have good players then they leave.
Then you get, you know, reasonably high draft picks. And
if you have ten or twelve draft picks in any
given year, even if you suck at drafting, you're probably
gonna hit on five or six picks. And if you're
good at drafting, which we aspire to be, maybe you
hit a nine out of twelve draft picks, which is
pretty good percentage. Now you have nine young players on
(22:28):
your roster and you're churning your roster every single year. Well,
we did a few times. We hit on some compics
and we hit on some regular draft picks and now
we have a baseline of young players to build on.
And we did that every single year. Once you do
it a couple of times and you can get, you know,
fifteen young, good, young ascending players. It's easier to let
(22:50):
veteran players leave. Now when they end up leaving like
a sad Darius Smith and become pro bowl outside linebackers,
you're like, what the hell do we do? Why we
let them leave, but you're doing it knowing that you
let us a Darius Smith leave you draft to match
you on, you know, and so you sort of balance
it out. And as we go back and think about
it and and our goal is really to have nine
(23:10):
to twelve draft picks every single year, we think that
maximizes our chances and it prevents us from getting into
that free agent game, which can be crazy, as you know,
where guys that you think are like, you know, seven
million dollar players, are getting twelve million dollars a year.
We just refused to participate in that game. So, speaking
of of draft and the importance of draft and having
(23:34):
a real good understanding of as you suggested, you have
some really talented scouting scouts and scouting staff that is, again,
respected across the country. I mean everyone on your staff.
I mean it's it's really fun to watch over the years.
Some move on to B GMS, of course, some have
such a good reputation around the league. Talk to me
a little bit about given the fact that you have
(23:55):
so many really good people on the personnel side. Talk
to me transparency. I'm always really interested in talking to
GMS about how far they go with transparency. I'm I'm
a big believer in being transparent to a certain point.
Of course you're transparent beyond with your head coach and
your owner. How much do you share with that Middle
Management Group? That's that's a great question and you know,
(24:19):
you live and learn, and so I try to be
very transparent. I call the guys in and we'll say
this is what we're doing, guys, and this is what
we're not doing. and Um I and there's two reasons
why now. But one, they may have feedback to help
me make a decision. Number two, I want them to
develop and I think sometimes when you don't kind of
clue people in or keep them in a loop, then
you really do stunt to develop a little bit and
(24:41):
also maybe you stunt their job satisfaction. In saying that again,
as I allude to, really the organization has to win
and and and and every football organization or every professional
sports organization and a lot of other companies have to
do with leaks, information getting out different things and that's
a really dangerous pervace of things. When it happens as
(25:02):
a general manager, as you know, it's really really frustrating,
really really disappointing. So you know, have we been acent
and has stuff gotten out. Yes, do I regret sometimes
sharing as much as we do or we have at times? Yes,
I do. You have to look at the pluses and
the Monasteris and you know the pros and cons of
(25:23):
doing that. But again, like I'm always telling our people, Hey, listen, guys,
I trust you, guys, I value you. Guys were a team.
When things get out, when injuries get out, when moves
get out, when when issues with our draft get out,
it's damaging to the club. There were repercussions and the
biggest repercussion is I don't share as much. If you're
(25:44):
okay with that, then keep leaking stuff, right. But, but,
but this has to be a two way street and
if I can't trust you, then I can't share information
with you. We've been pretty good. Obviously you're never it's
it's one of the toughest parts of the job right,
as you know, but you do the best can. I
look back on that and I remember one time after
my second year, and I remember coming in and I
(26:05):
pulled everyone in because something was getting outside in in
the Meetia, and I pulled everyone in and I was
ready just to let it go right. I wanted to
show my my rugged side I pulled everyone in, all
the people. I had all of my directors beside me,
had everyone else sort of the ranking order, and I
was like trying to be the tough ass and I
was going on and on, F this and f this
if I hear about anyone and ever doing anything. And
(26:26):
one of my directors, really close friend of mine and
a confident on of mine, right beside me, looks at
me said tee, you can look at my records any
day you want. I didn't make the calls and I
looked at him and said, dude, we're trying to address
some you're just outing yourself with that. But but no,
reality is you're so right. Transparency is great and yet
you know there has to be a really strong understanding.
(26:47):
Don't mess it up. If you're if you're sharing and
you're you're having some really good growth time with with everyone,
not only your your your management, a lot of the
rank and rank order right. I mean there's some great
opportunity used for them to learn and that's important and
we try to share those. I think, and and there's
other examples with other teams and other sports, but even
in our sport, and I'm constantly saying, Hey, guys, look
(27:09):
at the situation. Let's discuss this situation. How do you
think this happened? You know so. So, if I were
to ask you if there would be one thing that
you would have done differently during that rising time to
be the g before you became the GM, and you
were to share what's one thing you might have done differently,
(27:30):
I would have spent a lot more time. Uh, two
things really. Number One, I would have spent a lot
more time studying UH C B A and the salary
cap specifically, and then to building relationships with the League people.
I've seen, and you had a similar experience with Richard McKay,
(27:50):
but with Ozzie and newsom being on the competition committee
and his connections and various things. That's really an asset
to the organization. You know, and Ausi could get us
out of situations, could get additional information, could get help,
could get assistant assistance because of those relationships. I tend
to be a much more US versus them type of person. Uh,
(28:14):
you know, it's the ravens versus the world, it's the
ravens versus the other thirty one clubs, it's the ravens
versus the League. Uh, and also I tend to be
it's about football, it's not about money, it's not about
the bean counters, it's not about the salary cap, it's
about football. And so for me, uh, I have to say,
like honestly, one of the most enjoyable parts of my
(28:35):
job right now, and I never would have predicted this,
is the salary cap, is negotiating with agents, it's it's
working with the CAP, it's it's really building out and
saving money and doing really smart deals. And I never
would have said that, Thomas, because I'm a scout by
trade and they don't necessarily you know, jail very well,
but for me it's the most enjoyable part of the
(28:57):
job right now. I love that. You're a very intelligent,
insightful person. Obviously I've known that over the years and
and talking today you can realize it quickly. What are
you most encouraged by with regard to the NFL over
the next five to ten years? Yeah, you know, I
think one of the things I've seen is the is
the diversity initiatives, uh, specifically with with women, and if
(29:22):
you see the rise and the growth of women in
our business, I mean football is a quote, has always
been known as a very masculine sport. I mean, women
don't typically although there's some do and there were leagues,
but they don't typically play football, certainly in the NFL. Um.
So there's always been that little kind of a stigma.
I've got a daughter that's eighteen years old. UH, she's
(29:43):
an aspiring sports journalist. She loves the game of football
and to see all these women achieving these prominent positions
is gratifying and exciting and it makes me feel that
the NFL is in a really good place. Conversely, if
you were to look at the NFL in the next
five to ten years, what are you the most concerned about?
(30:05):
I would say the health of our players. I would
say the injuries. I think the concussion issue is something
that is troubling to a lot of people. I think
youth football is very, very important. Um, I don't know
the numbers of of of children playing youth football, but
I hope, hopefully, those numbers can, can, can continue to grow.
(30:27):
I think coaching at that level is critically important. UH,
safety measures, equipment technologies and all these various things. But
I am worried about that. I'm worried about the effects
the tour at all, right as well, um, but I
think the health of our players and the health and
the stability of the League moving forward due to these
(30:47):
health issues is paramount, no question about it. Okay, on
another topic that is really important, the League has made
some significant strides with regard to diversity and inclusion. It's
something that you know. I know we've talked about it.
We feel strongly about you feel very strongly about it
with you know, from a League perspective and and and
(31:08):
from the Baltimore Ravens perspective. Expound on that a little
bit and talk about your club. Well, first I would
say the Ravens have always been, I think, at the
forefront of diversity in the league because we had the
first African American General Manager in sports in the NFL,
Um and Ozzie newsom. So that's always been something that
(31:29):
we've we've thought about. James Harris was with US director
of player personnel. Went on to become general manager of
the Jacksonville Jaguars. Very proud of that. Marvin Lewis was
our defensive coordinator, went on to be head coach of
the bengals. Uh Ban of my existence for many years
because we always had a really hard time planning against
the Bengals, but he he was with us Um as
our D D C. Um. I think it's an issue
(31:53):
that is something that is really, really important. Um. It
was an issue that was important to Mrs Model. It's
an issue at is extremely important to Steve Bischotti, and
so one of the things that people should know is
that Steve Bischotti just started a scholarship for Hbcu, uh
(32:15):
in the Maryland area, of the four four schools in
the hbcu area, and it's known as the Ozzie newsome scholarship.
And so we're paying for UH twenty scholarships over a
four year span at the historically black colleges in uh
in Maryland, which is which is very exciting. Um. We've
(32:36):
also UH. We've also we have a program with the
Ravens Internship Program and fellowship where we hire h five
fellows in Scouting, coaching, video training room and player development,
one in each of those departments every year, which we're
very proud of. Uh. We've got a female director of Nutrition,
(33:01):
Uh Dietitian, Sarah Snyder, and fairly recently, uh one of
my newest and best hires. We hired an analyst in
scouting on the football side. Sarah Mal a Palais, who
had been working who were going to meet in a
second who was working for the phillies. Uh. We were
(33:22):
looking for an analyst, or two analysts, and uh she
came highly recommended. That people don't know this, but the
one of the owners of the Phillies is uh a
guy named Sandy Buck, and Sandy is uh a Colby
College graduate and a trustee. I happened to be a
Kolby College graduate and a trustee. So Sarah was on
(33:43):
our radar as a very bright, I'll be a little
bit young at the time, but had the resume that
we were looking for in the skill set, and so
we brought her in. She's working in a in a
high profile position in football and she's doing a great job. Eric.
What is your philosophy on life, balance, mind, body and soul,
for yourself and for your staff? Yeah, well, I've never
(34:07):
been number one. I've never been a believer in like
looking at the clock. Uh, when I started working back
in N and Thomas you know this. I mean you've
worked for some serious taskmasters like I always felt if
I could do my job in ten hours I didn't
need to spend sixteen or eighteen hours in the office,
and so I would do it and I would go home.
(34:28):
As I got older, well, I met my wife, lacy.
We started dating in Ninety Eight, we got married in
two thousand and one. We had our daughter, Jane in
two thousand three. It was very important. I again I
had a mentor in Ozzie and I saw how he
did things, but it was very important for me to
make sure that I could get home and see my
(34:49):
daughter before she went to bed. And I would and
I'd never apologize, even though I was building my career
and I was a director college, Scouting, whatever it was,
and still there's still this like Digma of leaving the office.
I never felt that. And so, uh, I think for
me it's like people always talk about, like, you know,
the quality of time versus quantity, and for me I
(35:10):
really want to be with him as much as possible.
Quantity just being there as much as possible, going through
as many games as they can and not apologize. And
if that means I have to wake up early, you know, uh,
and do my job. And so a lot of times
before the draft I'll get up early in the morning
like very early on the weekend and work four or
five or six hours and come home before my kids
(35:33):
are even awake and I feel like I've cheated the system. Uh.
You know, I try to live a healthy life. I
try to eat well. I've always felt that like coaches,
and you know this, they binge and they gain weight,
they lose weight. They gain weight, they lose weight. I've
always been a big proponent of health, my body, taking
(35:55):
care of myself, working out. We were fortunate to work
in this industry, but we can work out, we can
eat well. Uh, don't sleep as much probably as is
probably I should, but I'm a big believer in working out, health,
family time and uh, and then, and then I have
other hobbies too. I love to read. Uh, I'm I'm
(36:17):
a very curious person and I would say I love
to spend time my wife traveling when we can, although,
you know, you have to pick and choose your spots,
but but we do love to travel um and just
join being together. You mentioned about reading. You're obviously very intelligent,
insightful person and and you're well read. You're an English major.
(36:37):
I love that. I'm sure we could go on and
on talking about that. So as far as reading, as
far as studying. Again, we as GMS, you and formerly me,
we never had a chance to really dig into that
as much as we'd like. But I think it's important
to make sure that we have balance. Are you reading
anything or studying anything that is helping you and your
(36:58):
leadership team build morale side of things? Well, I read
a lot and uh, it's just my mom was a
voracious reader and so I kind of adopted that lifestyle
and so I'm always typically reading three or four books
at a time. Now I don't read as much as
I used to, Um, but in the summers I'll typically
read quite a bit and so I love storytelling, but
(37:20):
I also love to learn. So I I'll read a
lot of history. I love a lot of military history.
I love a lot of business stuff. I read a
great book on Netflix recently, which I would recommend, about
their culture, which I'm a big believer in reading about culture.
I love reading about, you know, leadership, presidents, uh, you know, generals,
(37:41):
leaders of company, CEO S uh. Michael Lewis is a
great storyteller. I'm reading his book the premonition, which is
about the pandemic, which is fascinating I'm a curious person.
So for me, if if I come across something that
is interesting to me, I'll read as much as I
can about that special effect thing could be data analytics.
(38:02):
I went through a period when we started our program
and analytics back in twelve where I read as much
as I could about analysis, data analysis questions to ask
how to interpret data, because that was a weakness of mine. Um,
I love reading about UH different times. You know the
(38:22):
book about the Spanish flu. Uh. It was fascinating. I
kept hearing about it and people saying this this book,
You have to read this book to understand the pandemic.
So you know that. I love reading about successful companies.
I've read a lot about apple and different things, and
I think so many different things out there I really
do translate to what we're doing and just the idea
that like there were so many smart people out there
(38:44):
doing things. If you're not listening and paying attention, YOU'RE
gonna be stuck in the mud and other people are
gonna find ways to beat you. That's right. Differentiating yourself.
I keep coming back to that. You've obviously done a
really good job differentiating yourself in this league. As you
continue to move to some serious, uh, you know, parts
of your career moving forward, hopefully for many, many years.
(39:05):
So this is this is what I call the UH footnote,
the Tim Ferris lifestyle question. All right, over the last
three to five years, what new approach, uh philosophy or
adjustment to your your life have you implemented that has
changed your world significantly? Yeah, well, I would say that
(39:27):
one of the things that I do is walk the hallways. Um,
I tend to be more of an introvert and so
and so I would rather just, in a in a
perfect world, be in my office, have a checklist of
things to do and watch tape, uh, talk to coach
and think about the roster and all that goes into it.
But I will walk the hallways and talk to some
(39:51):
people in sales and marketing, talk to the video guys,
go down to the equipment room, go down to the
weight room, ask people what they're doing, what they're not doing,
what are their Channe is, what do they need and uh,
it's it's not always easy for me to do that.
I find it it's it's not. Well, Thomas, you're an
area scout and you know area scouts come in different
you know, different shapes and sizes, and so some area
(40:13):
scouts just want to like they have that like high
higbee personality where they can talk to people and they
can they can talk to all these different people at
the school and all that. I was the guy that
wanted to be in the dark room just watching the tape.
So I'm not necessarily the type of guy that likes
to you know, I can't dance. Okay, I'm a bad dancer.
I'm not the guy at the party literally, so I'm
(40:33):
not the type of guy that's gonna be in the
middle of the dance floor. I work the shadows, you
know what I mean. But but I forced myself to
do that and it's it's empowering and it it makes
you feel connected to people and it makes people feel
that you care about what they're doing and that you
want to help them and you want to be a
solution for their problems, and that's that's been a secret,
(40:55):
I think, for me in the last couple of years.
That's great. Look, I mean when people start to scribing
you as tough, hard nosed, direct, cutthroat, I get that,
but your your personality, man, is so endearing and it's
it's been great hanging out here. I have one last
question here before we go inside. Yeah, you do a
little bit of fun eating and uh, and maybe a
little bit more imbibing. Okay, I asked the guys all
(41:18):
the time as I've been moving around the country. What
is the one question that you feared that I was
gonna ask? You, perends, you don't have to answer the question. Yeah, well, well,
there's one question I get asked a lot and it's
like so old and it's just basically like why have
you stayed with the Ravens for years and you know,
if you've done a good job, if your team has
had success in this business, you probably have some chances
(41:41):
to like move around take other jobs and and it
would always be like people would say to me and
clicking some of my peers, like dude, what are you doing,
like if you could go be the GM of the
packers or the bears or these other teams like Seattle,
like what? Why would you stay? Like what what is
it you you basically you waited twelve years for this
job and it would just get old and I would
(42:01):
try to explain it to people and everybody has different motivations. Thomas, right,
and you know, for me it was like succeeding and
winning the game of being a GM, but also like
really honestly, like winning the game of life with my family,
and my wife is from Baltimore, huge advantage. Her family's
in Baltimore, her mom's in Baltimore, but like having to
(42:22):
answer that question over and over again. People would look
at you and I actually had people, someone you know
very well, one time, uh, I was at an all
star game and I was on the sideline and I
had just turned down opportunity to look at a job,
but it was a good job. Someone we know came
up to me and said, Hey, dude, what are you doing?
(42:44):
Like you are you? Are you afraid? And they basically
said are you're afraid to be a GM, like you
don't want to. You just keep turning down opportunities because
you're afraid to be a GM. And and it hit
me in the wrong way, like it was like it
made it hit my pride a little bit. It's like no,
I'm not afraid, but I want to succeed. And I've
seen all these people like the longevity. It's a tough racket.
(43:06):
I mean you've talked to sixteen GMS and you know
this is a tough racket and you should maximize your
chances for success right whatever you can do. So I
looked at it as a game, like I'm playing chess
and how can I win the game? I'm not in
it for the short term moment, for the long term.
But but let's get old. You know, after a while, well,
you you you are perceived in such a positive way
(43:27):
around the league and yes, some people wondered like they're
hoping for you to move on back in the day
before you got your GM job, to like take a job.
And yet you obviously, I look back and I listen
to you talk, about halfway through your answer here, I
was thinking you made the best choice ever, in the
most intelligent choice to be with this organization. You're so
(43:48):
grounded here, Eric, and it's it's so amazing to see
as you continue to, you know, progress through this GM
job and the people around you. It's so solid and
sound for you to go and whimsically take a GM
job somewhere else. I'm not saying you would be whimsical
at all, but yeah, you've you've thought it out and
to be well thought out. You do that in your
(44:09):
approach to the draft and Free Agency and of course
you're doing it with your life, which I mean it's beyondcommendable. Well,
I appreciate that. Um. You know, I look at you,
you know, thirteen years, thirteen years, thirteen years assy. You know,
I just Kevin Colbert, that Kevin Colberts to the world,
that Ted Thompson's of the world, that Mickey loomis is Um,
(44:30):
it's just hard not to respect. This is a as
you know, it's a pressure filled job and like every
year as a GM is like it's a dog years,
you know, seven years, it's probably ten as a GM
and to see people like you have so much success
is it's inspiring to me. Well, thanks again for Sharon
and to be around here and I've shared this with
guys on them. We'll talk about it inside a little bit.
(44:53):
Sometimes when you're a GM you have so much on
your plate. I know that you you have an amazing
assistant in in Jen Right. Jen took care of business. Man.
You don't have to worry about it. That's my first higher.
Oh my God, she's done a great job and I'm
proud of Jen. She's she's extremely bright, um, but she's
even a better person. Yeah, well, you know, you have
(45:14):
to have the right surrounding cast and she's obviously there
for you as well, as there are many, many other
within your build that can go on and on about
a lot of those guys that I have a great
deal of respect. Thanks for joining me and I can't
wait to jump in here and eat some really cool crab.
Let's do it. Thanks, man. Okay, I hope you guys
enjoyed that. Again, very easy to see why this guy
(45:36):
is one of the rising stars in the GM world.
Eric da Costa highly intelligent and highly directed. Um, from
here Baltimore, we're gonna move over a little ways in
the country, over to Detroit and spend some time with
Brad Holmes, very new at the position, obviously one year in. Uh,
this is a really important draft for him coming off
(45:57):
of a year that was, you know, it was a
it was a strong year in the sense of a
lot going on to Detroit, but I think you'll really
enjoy that journey as well. Again, he's got a lot
of really interesting insights and, Um, you know, he was
mentored by the least need the maverick super bowl winning
general manager from the Los Angeles Rams. So don't forget
(46:21):
to check us out next week when we head over
to Detroit to spend time with Brad Holmes. You have
been listening to the GM journey with Thomas de Mittrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews GMS from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has been produced by
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas de Mittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget
(46:45):
to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever
you get your podcast from. The GM journey is distributed
by the eight side network. No
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
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(00:21):
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Forward Slash donate that. Let's jump to a different part
(00:51):
of the country. Let's get up the Baltimore. Let's spend
some time with Eric da Costa. Now, Eric is a very,
very interesting person. He's very Intel Eligent, very introspective and
has a really, really good, insightful approach to this game.
Welcome to the GM journey with Thomas Demtrough. I mean
(01:12):
here's a guy that was a part of the the
Ravens Paradigm for a number of years under Ozzie. Knew
some one of the very best in the business ever,
and he he was able to be tutored under him
and mentored by Ozzy. Knew someone what a what a
great opportunity to learn, and he hung in there many years.
Of course, many people were watching for him and looking
(01:34):
for him to leave and take a job, but he
stayed put. He is so firmly entrenched in that organization,
so firmly respected by his owner and again, very, very intelligent.
You'll you'll, you'll determine very quickly in the interview how
much he has to offer and where his intelligence level
is and his insight is. So take a ride with us,
(01:57):
enjoy the ride with myself and Dacosta, and I know
you will be highly impressed. Let's kick this off, Eric,
you've been in this in the League, in the National
Football League, for twenty six years now too, as a
general manager. Going into your third year. You kicked ass
coming out of the gate as the executive of the year.
(02:20):
You've done some great things all through all of your years.
You've been around some great, really intelligent football people, obviously
very intelligent yourself. Over these years you've learned a lot
right and you've been around guys like Ozzy knewsome, who
are unbelievably talented in our world, renowned for for being
a sports leader. How did you approach that. What was
(02:42):
your personal approach to following a guy like Ozzy knewsom? Well,
I think you know, obviously big shoes to fill. It's
something that people should know. Like I knew in two
thousand seven that I would be the next general manager,
which isn't the typical situation and for most general managers.
I became the general manager in two thousand nineteen, so
(03:04):
I had a twelve year period where I was on
the job training. You know, Steve Bischotti, our owner, asked
me to be as next general manager and Ozzie knew that.
There were no surprises. There was a plan of secession.
It was all about, you know, when Ozzy was ready
to retire. That's what happened. So I had a long
time to think about what it would look like and
(03:25):
you know, there was a pressure. I mean obviously, as
you alluded to, Thomas Hall of Fame Player, probably a
hall of Fame, Executive College Hall of fame, Nfl Hall
of fame, first two draft picks of Ozzy newsom's tenure
in the hall of fame, Jonathan Oggen Ray Lewis huge
shoes to fill. So, uh, I decided I was gonna
try to do it my way Um be a little
(03:47):
bit more aggressive, probably a little bit more outside the box,
a little more creative, and yet still try to emulate
Ossie's humility, his ability to work with other people, with
head coaches, which I think is critically Inportan, which we
can talk about, his ability as an evaluator, to focus
on football, all those different things, and yet do it
(04:08):
my way. You obviously have that side to you. I
mean from afar, it's your it's admirable how you approach
things and we can get into that a little bit
later about the aggressiveness and the approach, because I think
that's what I believe in the you can't sit on
your hands in this. Yeah, what was the sort of
most sort of enlightening lesson of leadership team building that
(04:30):
you learned from from a guy like Ozynism? I think
just watching him interact with the three coaches that we've had.
And when you think about the Ravens Organization, Twenty Five seasons,
three head coaches before me, one general manager and all
of our head coach is very, very different. You had
Ted Marcherbrod, a very much old school kind of an
NFL legend, had been a head coach to other times
(04:52):
and with the Baltimore Colts and then the Indianapolis Colts,
older than Ozzy by by a lot, and so that
changes the dynamic. Then you got the younger Brian Billick, Brash,
some might say, outspoken, somewhat arrogant, uh strong opinions, are
very intelligent. And then John Harbaugh, totally different too, very intense, cerebral,
(05:15):
uh strong leadership but again very firm in his beliefs.
And watching Ozz he navigate those different personalities in the
way that he did that extremely impressive. And I think
when people talk about Ozzy they don't understand how he
interacts with people. He's a relationship builder, humility. This is
a guy that's really succeeded at every walk of his
(05:37):
life in many different ways, and yet his humility just
bleeds through and uh, he doesn't have to be the guy.
He's a part of the process. It's always about the organization.
So for me, just watching him in those relationships, how
he would navigate challenging situations. As you know, Thomas, it
could be really difficult working with head coaches and presidents
and different people, and Ozz he did it so masterfully
(05:59):
that it was hard for me not to pay attention. Well,
that's great. I mean I can only imagine being around
that over those years. Keeping your proverbial notes in your
proverbial book is amazing. We all were taught to do
that and you you again, not only being around Ozzie
but other people. You guys have had unprecedented success within
the organization, again, as the Baltimore Ravens and how they're
(06:22):
perceived and what you guys have achieved over the years
through that. When you have an organization like that, you
lose some very good people. I mean I remember me
in in New England. We were always losing people. It
was tough. You guys have had to deal with that.
You guys have had again, talented people that you've lost
as a general manager. How complicated is that? How do
you approach that and how do you approach succession planning
(06:43):
when you know that year to year you're gonna be
losing really good football people? Well, you know you're right
and I think in my time in Baltimore we've had
six people go on to become general managers that have
worked under Ozzie. Um. The latest Joe Douglas, who I
know you spoke to, who I think the world of
and I think the idea is that the hiring for
(07:05):
your staff is a lot like the draft. It's got
to happen every year. You've got to find young guys
or young women who can command. We're going to talk
to Sarah later on. But you've got to find young
talent that can come in and develop and learn and
nurture and become the next really valuable members of your organization.
So we try and do that. We're not a club
that has historically gone out and hired people from other organizations.
(07:27):
We haven't done that very much. We've we've done it
a few times, but in general we try to hire
younger people that have a passion. They're curious, irreverent, intelligent,
passionate about the game of football, willing to learn about
the game of football. Give them a chance and, as Ozzie,
as Ozzie once said, the more you can do, the
more you can do. Give them a chance to grow
(07:48):
in the organization and end up being the next Great Scout, analyst, director,
whatever that might be. But promote from within, give them
a chance to learn the culture and to see what
they can do. Well, I mean again, I continue over
the years I've always looked at your roster of people
on the personnel side. I mean it is very talented
and very well thought out. How you guys have put
(08:09):
it together prior to you being in the GM role
and of course all along because you were in charge
of that department. You've kept some great people and you
continue to school them along the way. Um, you you
have one of the most highly revered owners that you
are working with and for, and that's UH in, Steve Mashadi. Unbelievable.
I know you have a great relationship with him. What
is your what's the key to a great relationship with
(08:32):
an owner like Stephen and and you know, how do
you if you were to advise some up and coming
general managers, how would you advise them to approach their
relationship with the owner? Well, every owner is different. Steve
and I actually share the same birthday, which is a
small thing, but in a strange sort of way, it
probably brought us together way back when. Uh He's a
(08:55):
he's an intense person. He's in a strong opinions, but
they're based in fact and they're there and he's not
afraid to tell you what he thinks and I think
Steve welcomes that trait in other people, and so one time,
a long time ago, he said to me, Eric, the
thing that I admire about you is you tell me
(09:15):
what you think, not what you think I want to hear.
And I would tell anybody that that has a boss
or a supervisor or a manager or whatever it is,
Um give them your honest opinion and do it based
on your work, based on your fact based on what
you've come up with. Don't try and B s them
(09:37):
or tell them what you think the proper answer might
be or the you know, the political answer might be
or what they might want to hear. Be Honest. They
have hired you to give your opinion based on what
you think, and an intelligent person is gonna be able
to see through that and they're gonna they're gonna be
a look at you and say he's genuine, he's not genuine.
(09:57):
She's doing the work, she's not doing the work, and
you're gonna respect you for that. I've thought about this
a lot because I know how important it is and
the longer you are in a relationship with an owner,
hopefully the more candid you can be and the more
honest you can be, and I would say to anyone Eric,
completely in line with what you're saying. It is imperative
that you're your candid and you're honest as far as
(10:20):
who you are as a person. Even I would even
go as far as saying, and it's not that easy,
I know, when you're on the verge of getting a
GM job and we start talking about, you know, advising
up and coming executives, you want to say the right
thing to the owner, but I would say the most
important thing is being honest with the owner about who
you are as a rising executive. There's no point in
getting into a relationship with an owner and ownership group
(10:42):
if you're B asking about something just to to appeal
to them right, because you're going to kick off a really,
really complicated relationship and you're gonna fail eventually. You're probably
gonna fail. And so I was blessed in some ways,
and you know, we can talk about my career with
the Ravens and my decisions to stay in various things,
but I felt that one of the advantages that I
(11:02):
had in terms of like looking at could I succeed,
was that my owner knew me, he knew my strengths,
he knew my weaknesses and wanted me to be the GM.
I wasn't trying to sell somebody on my potential to
be the GM or trying to sell somebody on well,
this is what we can do, this is what we
can't do. I knew step Shotti and Steve Schotti knew me.
(11:23):
There were no illusions. He knew and he would say
to me, Hey, you need to work on this or this.
You do this really well. This is something you need
to think about. And so for me over the last
twelve years he would say to me, you need to
know the people in the League office, you need to
under a Keno understanding of the salary cap, or I
(11:45):
want us to think about doing deals like this, and
I had the opportunity over twelve years to do that
before I was the GM. Huge advantage, huge. I love that.
I mean sometimes people are rushing to that GM spot.
You had an unbelievable, really fortunate situation where you were
able again to be around some great people and you
were able to really grow and and evolve into that spot.
(12:09):
You know as well as I do. No disrespect to
anyone who jumped in him. Look, I was I was
one of those people who had nowhere near the experience
you had. When I took the GM job back in
Oh eight, I was on the road, I was a
college director. You had, you have the opportunity. Had the
opportunity to be around a lot and we're edified in
so many ways, which I think is amazing. You've also
had the really good fortune of being around some really
(12:31):
good football coaches right and you you you know being
around you know John Harbor what he is as a strong, tough,
hard nose, opinionated, very well rounded football coach. Tell me
about that as a general manager and how you navigate
that relationship and how the two of you, you know,
thrive as a GM head coaching partnership. Well, before that.
(12:52):
It's very similar, Thomas, the way you had in New England.
But before that, you know, even when I started out,
you know, I mean we had Kirk parens and we
had Marvin Lewis and we had pat hill and I
mean we had we had all these the galaxy of stars,
as Pat Mori already always likes. It really was. So
I got used to being around these really talented people.
(13:13):
I mean bat we had phil savage, became a GM
and we had Scott Pioli, all these guys you worked
with in Cleveland, so you know. But these were really,
really good people. Jim Schwartz became a head coach, Eric Mangini,
they we were all together in Baltimore. So I got
a chance to see what it could look like, or
what it should look like. These really smart, innovative, great
coaches and scouts and all these different things. And so
(13:34):
you know, I can tell you this like being with John.
We're very much aligned. And again I had a chance
to see John from a different perspective as the assistant
GM and the director player personnel. But we are very
aligned in the vision and the culture that he's built
and I have tremendous respect for the culture that John
Harbor has built. It takes time, as you know. We've
(13:55):
been in some great cultures. It takes time, but I
know what it should look like and we've had great
assistant coaches. We've had a lot of guys that have
gone on to become head coaches, most recently David Culley
this year. But I know this is what it needs
to be and so I spend every day with John,
every morning, usually every night before I go home, uh
(14:16):
talking about the Day the Vision, the plan, this idea,
that idea. I think he respects my aggressiveness. I think
he respects that I'm willing to do everything possible to
look under every rock for an opportunity for value for
a player, whatever that might be. I think he likes that.
We're very similar, probably from that standpoint. He's not really
(14:38):
a sit on your hands type of guy. Uh. So
we work well together that we'll have some fights. You know,
we'll have some healthy fights, usually around draft time. Uh.
But I think that's really healthy and the good thing
is sometimes he's right, sometimes I'm right, so it balances
out and it ends up being a really good synergy. That,
I mean, that's what you need. Right the synergy is
(14:59):
so important. Along with the synergy of the head coach, you,
as a general manager, also have to have synergy with
the coaching staff. I'm talking about the coordinators and the
position coaches. I could go on and on talking about
the importance of that, because we know that, of course,
the head coach is the most important, but those coordinators
and those position coaches are vital. I have a very
(15:19):
strong opinion about making sure that you put together the
right coaching staff. It's not just about having loyalists or
or what I like to call loyal myrmidons, myrmidons with
the head coach. It's about making sure that you have
the right people in place right. So are you involved
in the coaching selection with John? Is your owner involved?
How do you guys approach that to make sure you
(15:40):
get the best staff that you can possibly get? Yeah, well,
I think the great thing about John is he's open
to basically anything and he's a guy that can take opinion.
Is extremely well. I would say that I think John
has a great pulse on coaches in general. For the
most part, he will consult with me, I'll ask me
my opinion. He'll say, do you know anybody? What do
(16:01):
you think of this guy? We just spend some time
with this guy. Um, I really think that John has
a great feel for, again, the culture and where we
need to go and so and he's not afraid to
hire someone controversial. He's not afraid to fire somebody mid season,
(16:21):
which isn't easy to do, as you know. Uh, we've
turned to coaching staff over quite a bit, but he's
almost he's patient as well. I think he'll hire college guys,
he'll hire pro guys. I'll hire guys that are out
of work. So I am involved. But I also know
that John is overseas the coaches. He's got a great
(16:44):
pulse for that. I mean he's he's he's very good
with scouts too. He's very good with players. He's he's got,
and that's not necessarily inherent in all coaches. He's got
a good ability to evaluate and he does it very,
very well. And so if you can evaluate, as you know,
you can have evaluate players, you can evaluate coaches, you
can evaluate people and he has a good job of
(17:04):
that today's world, don't you agree? I mean back in
the day I remember people saying I just want to
be perceived as a football guy and you have to
be right. I don't think that way. No, I don't.
(17:25):
Now I understand that mentality and that's how Ausi actually
but you can't nowadays. You've got to understand the importance
of digital media, social media, the fans, the brand, ticket sales,
all these different things are critically important. You know, Eric,
you've been described in your early tenure as a GM too,
(17:46):
going into three now, as tough, hard nosed direct I
even read an article today and I know you didn't
like to read it that it said cutthroat and that
was respectful, because that means tough, ass, direct and take
it head on, and I'm a big believer in not
sitting on your hands in this league. Yeah, of course.
You know, back in the Leven when we went after Julio,
(18:07):
I mean I'm proud of that. Will never look back
on something like. Yeah, what is your stance on aggressive
team building, trading, Etcetera. Well, I would say you know,
and the other they don't want to sound uh, you know,
whatever the word is, but when you you know, and
I pay attention. I study GMS. I've always been, you know,
fascinated by GMS. I never really like, cared much about coaches.
(18:28):
L I love coaches, but I would always study team builders,
whether it was red hour back or whoever it was,
you know, a wrong wolf for whoever it might be.
And when you when you went after Julio, I said,
you know, I just really admire that and who knows
how it's going to pan out, but I love the conviction.
And so, you know, I always say when we talk
(18:51):
to people, and it might be when I talked to
a player or an agent or a scout or whoever
it might be. The Ravens are to win this, we're gonna.
We have to win. Okay, so that means we're gonna
win the negotiation. That means we trade a player, we
need to win the trade. If I want to negotiate
with somebody, if we're gonna let somebody leave, if we're gonna,
(19:12):
we want to win because that's what our owner wants.
We want to be winning. We want to win it
everything we do. So, uh, I love I love making trades.
I want the trades to be fair. I want to
keep relationships with people. You and I have done some trades.
There was only one that was a really good draw.
It was Hayden Herston. But we want and we want
(19:35):
to be fair with everybody. When we do a deal
with an agent, we want it to be a fair deal.
We want to we want to give and take because
we want the player to be happy. We never want
to win in such a way that the player is unhappy,
was what happened, or the agent is upset with us
for how we handle the negotiations. In saying that, uh,
(19:56):
we we think, and I believe this incrementally, we always
want to win in the nature transaction and so we
analyze everything we do in every decision and we've got
a really good at people that work with me that
will advise me, whether it's George Coquina or Joe Hortiz
or Pat moriarity or Ozzy, who's basically the best, and
Nick Matdio or whoever someone in the analytics date McDonald
Sarah Malli Pala. They will give us advice, give me advice,
(20:18):
I'll listen to it and I'll say how can we win?
It doesn't have to be a huge win, but we're
trying to win every single transaction, every single deal we negotiate,
whatever that might be, and we believe if we do
that over time then we'll come out ahead. It's a
great it's a great lead into this next question. You
and your organization or at the front end of compensatory
(20:39):
picks and how you approach that. That arena is a
special arena. I think within the NFL. You guys are
at the front end of it. Talk to me a
little bit about that and talk to me how you
feel comfortable letting certain players go. That's a complicated spot
for GM. Yeah, well, that goes back many, many years
and it really goes back when Mr Modell was our owner,
(20:59):
and we just quite honestly, we're not able to really
participate in free agency and we didn't have the money. And,
you know, we would see that there was a correlation
between cash and winning and cash over captain winning, and
it was really hard for us because we just didn't
have the type of money to spend on all these
outrageous free agent contracts, and so the draft was really
(21:22):
our model. We became a very draft centric team and uh,
we we we sort of figured out there was a
really uh seminal article that was written, I don't know,
maybe two thousand seven, two thousand five, two thousand seven,
called the loser's curse, and it was really about the
draft and it was really about how teams should always
trade back and acquire picks and never trade up and
that you should always accumulate because the draft is basically
(21:45):
a luck driven process. And so, uh, we really came
to the conclusion that we weren't going to be able
to pay. The free agency is really in a rational
market and in the values, especially in the first couple
of weeks, are just so outrage just that we couldn't
get into that game. And so we would we would
let players leave. Well, by letting players leave, we then
(22:07):
figured out, well, the only you know, value of letting
players leave is if you have good players then they leave.
Then you get, you know, reasonably high draft picks. And
if you have ten or twelve draft picks in any
given year, even if you suck at drafting, you're probably
gonna hit on five or six picks. And if you're
good at drafting, which we aspire to be, maybe you
hit a nine out of twelve draft picks, which is
pretty good percentage. Now you have nine young players on
(22:28):
your roster and you're churning your roster every single year. Well,
we did a few times. We hit on some compics
and we hit on some regular draft picks and now
we have a baseline of young players to build on.
And we did that every single year. Once you do
it a couple of times and you can get, you know,
fifteen young, good, young ascending players. It's easier to let
(22:50):
veteran players leave. Now when they end up leaving like
a sad Darius Smith and become pro bowl outside linebackers,
you're like, what the hell do we do? Why we
let them leave, but you're doing it knowing that you
let us a Darius Smith leave you draft to match
you on, you know, and so you sort of balance
it out. And as we go back and think about
it and and our goal is really to have nine
(23:10):
to twelve draft picks every single year, we think that
maximizes our chances and it prevents us from getting into
that free agent game, which can be crazy, as you know,
where guys that you think are like, you know, seven
million dollar players, are getting twelve million dollars a year.
We just refused to participate in that game. So, speaking
of of draft and the importance of draft and having
(23:34):
a real good understanding of as you suggested, you have
some really talented scouting scouts and scouting staff that is, again,
respected across the country. I mean everyone on your staff.
I mean it's it's really fun to watch over the years.
Some move on to B GMS, of course, some have
such a good reputation around the league. Talk to me
a little bit about given the fact that you have
(23:55):
so many really good people on the personnel side. Talk
to me transparency. I'm always really interested in talking to
GMS about how far they go with transparency. I'm I'm
a big believer in being transparent to a certain point.
Of course you're transparent beyond with your head coach and
your owner. How much do you share with that Middle
Management Group? That's that's a great question and you know,
(24:19):
you live and learn, and so I try to be
very transparent. I call the guys in and we'll say
this is what we're doing, guys, and this is what
we're not doing. and Um I and there's two reasons
why now. But one, they may have feedback to help
me make a decision. Number two, I want them to
develop and I think sometimes when you don't kind of
clue people in or keep them in a loop, then
you really do stunt to develop a little bit and
(24:41):
also maybe you stunt their job satisfaction. In saying that again,
as I allude to, really the organization has to win
and and and and every football organization or every professional
sports organization and a lot of other companies have to
do with leaks, information getting out different things and that's
a really dangerous pervace of things. When it happens as
(25:02):
a general manager, as you know, it's really really frustrating,
really really disappointing. So you know, have we been acent
and has stuff gotten out. Yes, do I regret sometimes
sharing as much as we do or we have at times? Yes,
I do. You have to look at the pluses and
the Monasteris and you know the pros and cons of
(25:23):
doing that. But again, like I'm always telling our people, Hey, listen, guys,
I trust you, guys, I value you. Guys were a team.
When things get out, when injuries get out, when moves
get out, when when issues with our draft get out,
it's damaging to the club. There were repercussions and the
biggest repercussion is I don't share as much. If you're
(25:44):
okay with that, then keep leaking stuff, right. But, but,
but this has to be a two way street and
if I can't trust you, then I can't share information
with you. We've been pretty good. Obviously you're never it's
it's one of the toughest parts of the job right,
as you know, but you do the best can. I
look back on that and I remember one time after
my second year, and I remember coming in and I
(26:05):
pulled everyone in because something was getting outside in in
the Meetia, and I pulled everyone in and I was
ready just to let it go right. I wanted to
show my my rugged side I pulled everyone in, all
the people. I had all of my directors beside me,
had everyone else sort of the ranking order, and I
was like trying to be the tough ass and I
was going on and on, F this and f this
if I hear about anyone and ever doing anything. And
(26:26):
one of my directors, really close friend of mine and
a confident on of mine, right beside me, looks at
me said tee, you can look at my records any
day you want. I didn't make the calls and I
looked at him and said, dude, we're trying to address
some you're just outing yourself with that. But but no,
reality is you're so right. Transparency is great and yet
you know there has to be a really strong understanding.
(26:47):
Don't mess it up. If you're if you're sharing and
you're you're having some really good growth time with with everyone,
not only your your your management, a lot of the
rank and rank order right. I mean there's some great
opportunity used for them to learn and that's important and
we try to share those. I think, and and there's
other examples with other teams and other sports, but even
in our sport, and I'm constantly saying, Hey, guys, look
(27:09):
at the situation. Let's discuss this situation. How do you
think this happened? You know so. So, if I were
to ask you if there would be one thing that
you would have done differently during that rising time to
be the g before you became the GM, and you
were to share what's one thing you might have done differently,
(27:30):
I would have spent a lot more time. Uh, two
things really. Number One, I would have spent a lot
more time studying UH C B A and the salary
cap specifically, and then to building relationships with the League people.
I've seen, and you had a similar experience with Richard McKay,
(27:50):
but with Ozzie and newsom being on the competition committee
and his connections and various things. That's really an asset
to the organization. You know, and Ausi could get us
out of situations, could get additional information, could get help,
could get assistant assistance because of those relationships. I tend
to be a much more US versus them type of person. Uh,
(28:14):
you know, it's the ravens versus the world, it's the
ravens versus the other thirty one clubs, it's the ravens
versus the League. Uh, and also I tend to be
it's about football, it's not about money, it's not about
the bean counters, it's not about the salary cap, it's
about football. And so for me, uh, I have to say,
like honestly, one of the most enjoyable parts of my
(28:35):
job right now, and I never would have predicted this,
is the salary cap, is negotiating with agents, it's it's
working with the CAP, it's it's really building out and
saving money and doing really smart deals. And I never
would have said that, Thomas, because I'm a scout by
trade and they don't necessarily you know, jail very well,
but for me it's the most enjoyable part of the
(28:57):
job right now. I love that. You're a very intelligent,
insightful person. Obviously I've known that over the years and
and talking today you can realize it quickly. What are
you most encouraged by with regard to the NFL over
the next five to ten years? Yeah, you know, I
think one of the things I've seen is the is
the diversity initiatives, uh, specifically with with women, and if
(29:22):
you see the rise and the growth of women in
our business, I mean football is a quote, has always
been known as a very masculine sport. I mean, women
don't typically although there's some do and there were leagues,
but they don't typically play football, certainly in the NFL. Um.
So there's always been that little kind of a stigma.
I've got a daughter that's eighteen years old. UH, she's
(29:43):
an aspiring sports journalist. She loves the game of football
and to see all these women achieving these prominent positions
is gratifying and exciting and it makes me feel that
the NFL is in a really good place. Conversely, if
you were to look at the NFL in the next
five to ten years, what are you the most concerned about?
(30:05):
I would say the health of our players. I would
say the injuries. I think the concussion issue is something
that is troubling to a lot of people. I think
youth football is very, very important. Um, I don't know
the numbers of of of children playing youth football, but
I hope, hopefully, those numbers can, can, can continue to grow.
(30:27):
I think coaching at that level is critically important. UH,
safety measures, equipment technologies and all these various things. But
I am worried about that. I'm worried about the effects
the tour at all, right as well, um, but I
think the health of our players and the health and
the stability of the League moving forward due to these
(30:47):
health issues is paramount, no question about it. Okay, on
another topic that is really important, the League has made
some significant strides with regard to diversity and inclusion. It's
something that you know. I know we've talked about it.
We feel strongly about you feel very strongly about it
with you know, from a League perspective and and and
(31:08):
from the Baltimore Ravens perspective. Expound on that a little
bit and talk about your club. Well, first I would
say the Ravens have always been, I think, at the
forefront of diversity in the league because we had the
first African American General Manager in sports in the NFL,
Um and Ozzie newsom. So that's always been something that
(31:29):
we've we've thought about. James Harris was with US director
of player personnel. Went on to become general manager of
the Jacksonville Jaguars. Very proud of that. Marvin Lewis was
our defensive coordinator, went on to be head coach of
the bengals. Uh Ban of my existence for many years
because we always had a really hard time planning against
the Bengals, but he he was with us Um as
our D D C. Um. I think it's an issue
(31:53):
that is something that is really, really important. Um. It
was an issue that was important to Mrs Model. It's
an issue at is extremely important to Steve Bischotti, and
so one of the things that people should know is
that Steve Bischotti just started a scholarship for Hbcu, uh
(32:15):
in the Maryland area, of the four four schools in
the hbcu area, and it's known as the Ozzie newsome scholarship.
And so we're paying for UH twenty scholarships over a
four year span at the historically black colleges in uh
in Maryland, which is which is very exciting. Um. We've
(32:36):
also UH. We've also we have a program with the
Ravens Internship Program and fellowship where we hire h five
fellows in Scouting, coaching, video training room and player development,
one in each of those departments every year, which we're
very proud of. Uh. We've got a female director of Nutrition,
(33:01):
Uh Dietitian, Sarah Snyder, and fairly recently, uh one of
my newest and best hires. We hired an analyst in
scouting on the football side. Sarah Mal a Palais, who
had been working who were going to meet in a
second who was working for the phillies. Uh. We were
(33:22):
looking for an analyst, or two analysts, and uh she
came highly recommended. That people don't know this, but the
one of the owners of the Phillies is uh a
guy named Sandy Buck, and Sandy is uh a Colby
College graduate and a trustee. I happened to be a
Kolby College graduate and a trustee. So Sarah was on
(33:43):
our radar as a very bright, I'll be a little
bit young at the time, but had the resume that
we were looking for in the skill set, and so
we brought her in. She's working in a in a
high profile position in football and she's doing a great job. Eric.
What is your philosophy on life, balance, mind, body and soul,
for yourself and for your staff? Yeah, well, I've never
(34:07):
been number one. I've never been a believer in like
looking at the clock. Uh, when I started working back
in N and Thomas you know this. I mean you've
worked for some serious taskmasters like I always felt if
I could do my job in ten hours I didn't
need to spend sixteen or eighteen hours in the office,
and so I would do it and I would go home.
(34:28):
As I got older, well, I met my wife, lacy.
We started dating in Ninety Eight, we got married in
two thousand and one. We had our daughter, Jane in
two thousand three. It was very important. I again I
had a mentor in Ozzie and I saw how he
did things, but it was very important for me to
make sure that I could get home and see my
(34:49):
daughter before she went to bed. And I would and
I'd never apologize, even though I was building my career
and I was a director college, Scouting, whatever it was,
and still there's still this like Digma of leaving the office.
I never felt that. And so, uh, I think for
me it's like people always talk about, like, you know,
the quality of time versus quantity, and for me I
(35:10):
really want to be with him as much as possible.
Quantity just being there as much as possible, going through
as many games as they can and not apologize. And
if that means I have to wake up early, you know, uh,
and do my job. And so a lot of times
before the draft I'll get up early in the morning
like very early on the weekend and work four or
five or six hours and come home before my kids
(35:33):
are even awake and I feel like I've cheated the system. Uh.
You know, I try to live a healthy life. I
try to eat well. I've always felt that like coaches,
and you know this, they binge and they gain weight,
they lose weight. They gain weight, they lose weight. I've
always been a big proponent of health, my body, taking
(35:55):
care of myself, working out. We were fortunate to work
in this industry, but we can work out, we can
eat well. Uh, don't sleep as much probably as is
probably I should, but I'm a big believer in working out, health,
family time and uh, and then, and then I have
other hobbies too. I love to read. Uh, I'm I'm
(36:17):
a very curious person and I would say I love
to spend time my wife traveling when we can, although,
you know, you have to pick and choose your spots,
but but we do love to travel um and just
join being together. You mentioned about reading. You're obviously very intelligent,
insightful person and and you're well read. You're an English major.
(36:37):
I love that. I'm sure we could go on and
on talking about that. So as far as reading, as
far as studying. Again, we as GMS, you and formerly me,
we never had a chance to really dig into that
as much as we'd like. But I think it's important
to make sure that we have balance. Are you reading
anything or studying anything that is helping you and your
(36:58):
leadership team build morale side of things? Well, I read
a lot and uh, it's just my mom was a
voracious reader and so I kind of adopted that lifestyle
and so I'm always typically reading three or four books
at a time. Now I don't read as much as
I used to, Um, but in the summers I'll typically
read quite a bit and so I love storytelling, but
(37:20):
I also love to learn. So I I'll read a
lot of history. I love a lot of military history.
I love a lot of business stuff. I read a
great book on Netflix recently, which I would recommend, about
their culture, which I'm a big believer in reading about culture.
I love reading about, you know, leadership, presidents, uh, you know, generals,
(37:41):
leaders of company, CEO S uh. Michael Lewis is a
great storyteller. I'm reading his book the premonition, which is
about the pandemic, which is fascinating I'm a curious person.
So for me, if if I come across something that
is interesting to me, I'll read as much as I
can about that special effect thing could be data analytics.
(38:02):
I went through a period when we started our program
and analytics back in twelve where I read as much
as I could about analysis, data analysis questions to ask
how to interpret data, because that was a weakness of mine. Um,
I love reading about UH different times. You know the
(38:22):
book about the Spanish flu. Uh. It was fascinating. I
kept hearing about it and people saying this this book,
You have to read this book to understand the pandemic.
So you know that. I love reading about successful companies.
I've read a lot about apple and different things, and
I think so many different things out there I really
do translate to what we're doing and just the idea
that like there were so many smart people out there
(38:44):
doing things. If you're not listening and paying attention, YOU'RE
gonna be stuck in the mud and other people are
gonna find ways to beat you. That's right. Differentiating yourself.
I keep coming back to that. You've obviously done a
really good job differentiating yourself in this league. As you
continue to move to some serious, uh, you know, parts
of your career moving forward, hopefully for many, many years.
(39:05):
So this is this is what I call the UH footnote,
the Tim Ferris lifestyle question. All right, over the last
three to five years, what new approach, uh philosophy or
adjustment to your your life have you implemented that has
changed your world significantly? Yeah, well, I would say that
(39:27):
one of the things that I do is walk the hallways. Um,
I tend to be more of an introvert and so
and so I would rather just, in a in a
perfect world, be in my office, have a checklist of
things to do and watch tape, uh, talk to coach
and think about the roster and all that goes into it.
But I will walk the hallways and talk to some
(39:51):
people in sales and marketing, talk to the video guys,
go down to the equipment room, go down to the
weight room, ask people what they're doing, what they're not doing,
what are their Channe is, what do they need and uh,
it's it's not always easy for me to do that.
I find it it's it's not. Well, Thomas, you're an
area scout and you know area scouts come in different
you know, different shapes and sizes, and so some area
(40:13):
scouts just want to like they have that like high
higbee personality where they can talk to people and they
can they can talk to all these different people at
the school and all that. I was the guy that
wanted to be in the dark room just watching the tape.
So I'm not necessarily the type of guy that likes
to you know, I can't dance. Okay, I'm a bad dancer.
I'm not the guy at the party literally, so I'm
(40:33):
not the type of guy that's gonna be in the
middle of the dance floor. I work the shadows, you
know what I mean. But but I forced myself to
do that and it's it's empowering and it it makes
you feel connected to people and it makes people feel
that you care about what they're doing and that you
want to help them and you want to be a
solution for their problems, and that's that's been a secret,
(40:55):
I think, for me in the last couple of years.
That's great. Look, I mean when people start to scribing
you as tough, hard nosed, direct, cutthroat, I get that,
but your your personality, man, is so endearing and it's
it's been great hanging out here. I have one last
question here before we go inside. Yeah, you do a
little bit of fun eating and uh, and maybe a
little bit more imbibing. Okay, I asked the guys all
(41:18):
the time as I've been moving around the country. What
is the one question that you feared that I was
gonna ask? You, perends, you don't have to answer the question. Yeah, well, well,
there's one question I get asked a lot and it's
like so old and it's just basically like why have
you stayed with the Ravens for years and you know,
if you've done a good job, if your team has
had success in this business, you probably have some chances
(41:41):
to like move around take other jobs and and it
would always be like people would say to me and
clicking some of my peers, like dude, what are you doing,
like if you could go be the GM of the
packers or the bears or these other teams like Seattle,
like what? Why would you stay? Like what what is
it you you basically you waited twelve years for this
job and it would just get old and I would
(42:01):
try to explain it to people and everybody has different motivations. Thomas, right,
and you know, for me it was like succeeding and
winning the game of being a GM, but also like
really honestly, like winning the game of life with my family,
and my wife is from Baltimore, huge advantage. Her family's
in Baltimore, her mom's in Baltimore, but like having to
(42:22):
answer that question over and over again. People would look
at you and I actually had people, someone you know
very well, one time, uh, I was at an all
star game and I was on the sideline and I
had just turned down opportunity to look at a job,
but it was a good job. Someone we know came
up to me and said, Hey, dude, what are you doing?
(42:44):
Like you are you? Are you afraid? And they basically
said are you're afraid to be a GM, like you
don't want to. You just keep turning down opportunities because
you're afraid to be a GM. And and it hit
me in the wrong way, like it was like it
made it hit my pride a little bit. It's like no,
I'm not afraid, but I want to succeed. And I've
seen all these people like the longevity. It's a tough racket.
(43:06):
I mean you've talked to sixteen GMS and you know
this is a tough racket and you should maximize your
chances for success right whatever you can do. So I
looked at it as a game, like I'm playing chess
and how can I win the game? I'm not in
it for the short term moment, for the long term.
But but let's get old. You know, after a while, well,
you you you are perceived in such a positive way
(43:27):
around the league and yes, some people wondered like they're
hoping for you to move on back in the day
before you got your GM job, to like take a job.
And yet you obviously, I look back and I listen
to you talk, about halfway through your answer here, I
was thinking you made the best choice ever, in the
most intelligent choice to be with this organization. You're so
(43:48):
grounded here, Eric, and it's it's so amazing to see
as you continue to, you know, progress through this GM
job and the people around you. It's so solid and
sound for you to go and whimsically take a GM
job somewhere else. I'm not saying you would be whimsical
at all, but yeah, you've you've thought it out and
to be well thought out. You do that in your
(44:09):
approach to the draft and Free Agency and of course
you're doing it with your life, which I mean it's beyondcommendable. Well,
I appreciate that. Um. You know, I look at you,
you know, thirteen years, thirteen years, thirteen years assy. You know,
I just Kevin Colbert, that Kevin Colberts to the world,
that Ted Thompson's of the world, that Mickey loomis is Um,
(44:30):
it's just hard not to respect. This is a as
you know, it's a pressure filled job and like every
year as a GM is like it's a dog years,
you know, seven years, it's probably ten as a GM
and to see people like you have so much success
is it's inspiring to me. Well, thanks again for Sharon
and to be around here and I've shared this with
guys on them. We'll talk about it inside a little bit.
(44:53):
Sometimes when you're a GM you have so much on
your plate. I know that you you have an amazing
assistant in in Jen Right. Jen took care of business. Man.
You don't have to worry about it. That's my first higher.
Oh my God, she's done a great job and I'm
proud of Jen. She's she's extremely bright, um, but she's
even a better person. Yeah, well, you know, you have
(45:14):
to have the right surrounding cast and she's obviously there
for you as well, as there are many, many other
within your build that can go on and on about
a lot of those guys that I have a great
deal of respect. Thanks for joining me and I can't
wait to jump in here and eat some really cool crab.
Let's do it. Thanks, man. Okay, I hope you guys
enjoyed that. Again, very easy to see why this guy
(45:36):
is one of the rising stars in the GM world.
Eric da Costa highly intelligent and highly directed. Um, from
here Baltimore, we're gonna move over a little ways in
the country, over to Detroit and spend some time with
Brad Holmes, very new at the position, obviously one year in. Uh,
this is a really important draft for him coming off
(45:57):
of a year that was, you know, it was a
it was a strong year in the sense of a
lot going on to Detroit, but I think you'll really
enjoy that journey as well. Again, he's got a lot
of really interesting insights and, Um, you know, he was
mentored by the least need the maverick super bowl winning
general manager from the Los Angeles Rams. So don't forget
(46:21):
to check us out next week when we head over
to Detroit to spend time with Brad Holmes. You have
been listening to the GM journey with Thomas de Mittrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews GMS from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has been produced by
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas de Mittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget
(46:45):
to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever
you get your podcast from. The GM journey is distributed
by the eight side network. No
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